1

Even if they were, how many teenagers do you know that always listen to their parents? 

Dennis Prager had an interesting point on his show today.  On one hand, you have a loving family that fully supports their daughter.  On the other hand, you have Obama telling people that he doesn't want his daughter "punished with a baby."

2 Just for your information bitch, I look good in heels.

3 When you fall short of a goal, that doesn't mean the goal wasn't worth striving for.

4 My standard reply when this topic comes up is that the schools should first try to do a passable job of teaching math, history, science, English, etc.

Talking sex-ed to a bunch of horny illiterates isn't exactly aiming for the stars.

5 Okay,,,,uh,,,,,How do you know what semen tastes like Ace?

6 And sometimes, no matter how you raise them, kids go out and fuck (up).

According to the Lefties, th

7 Fucking keyboard.  Screw it.

8 Um, the reaction.

9 Pretty much all I learned in sex-ed was that sex was pretty fucking awesome

Its unfortunate that you never got to put that ed to use

10 I've always wondered if liberals promoted "safe drunk-driving" classes as well.


[It's not a really good idea, and it can mess with your life, but, Hey, you're going to do it anyway, so be sure and pop some Mentos when you see those flashing blue lights.]

11 If you tell teenagers "you shouldn't have sex because even with perfect use of contraceptives, you still could get pregnant and contract an STD, and you can't put a condom on your heart, but if you do have sex, use a condom," all they're going to hear is "use a condom."

Speaking of which, how do we know that Bristol didn't use a condom?

12 From when Palin was running for lt. governor:

In 2002, when she was running for lieutenant governor, Palin sent an e-mail to the anti-abortion Alaska Right to Life Board saying she was as "pro-life as any candidate can be" and has "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion."

Palin said last month that no woman should have to choose between her career, education and her child. She is pro-contraception and said she's a member of a pro-woman but anti-abortion group called Feminists for Life.

"I believe in the strength and the power of women, and the potential of every human life," she said.

Sounds like the daughter just didn't listen.

13 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, same with epople, especially teens.
Very few people have problems with sex education if it teaches sex and not how to be sexual. Besides being generally disgusting it takes away a bit from life doesn't it?
Putting a condom on with your mouth and fisting isn't sex education, it's advocacy.
I don't think parents are asking a lot to tell schools "Listen, stick to the mechanics mostly and when to comes to poll dancing we'll take over okay?

BTW If they teach the rhythm method in school it should be pointed out it is meant to reduce pregnancies, not eliminate them and only in the context of marriage, otherwise abstinence.

14 Hey, don't knock the rhythm method.  Some of us owe a debt to it...

/parents are practicing Catholics and didn't 'expect' me, draw your own conclusions...

15

It seemed to me, that in the news report i read where Palin responded to the sex ed. question was framed with two extreme positions:  Highly explict sex ed or abstance.  She said she would not favor funding the "highly explict" sex ed. style.

She might actually favor some sort of (gasp) reasonable mix of info or even (gasp) letting local areas determine for themselves what mix is correct.

16 Or, you know, maybe the Palin's knew the boy and were cool with him, knew he going to marry her, etc. Its possible.

17 >>Um... I think she misled the girls on that one. She kinda of forgot to mention the presence of corposine and putrisine, two chemicals associated with human decomposition. Dude, ixnay, IXNAY on the umanhay ecompositionday. I'm reasonably sure there are a couple women who read this blog and if this shit gets out none of us are getting any ever again.

18

 I'm guessing that many parents are uncomfortable with the whole discussion and, to the extent they do discuss birth control, do so vaguely and without much elaboration.

Actually, it's the kids who are more embarrassed talking about it with the parents than vice versa, and then the parents can wuss out and hand the responsibility over to a government teacher who has Zero investment in the kids' decisions.

Government schools shouldn't be teaching abstinence; they shouldn't be teaching sex ed at all.

19 Whatever happened to learning about sex looking at porn mags your buddies stole from their older brothers?
*sigh* The good old days.

20 Apparently reasonable compromise has no place in the debate.  I don't care what the schools teach, my (hypothetical) kids will be taught how getting preggers (or getting someone preggers) can put a real monkey wrench in your life, how birth control works (and what doesn't - sorry rythem method) and I'll try to explain why waiting is better.  After that, I'll try to be a good parent - not their friend but someone who you can talk to without fear of me freaking out too much.   Ultimately, some kids will be good, some will be mostly good and some will fuckup.  You do the best you can.

21 -- Let's not forget for a moment that Obama's mother was 18 and unwed when she was pregnant for him and look at how far he's gotten. What would you say to his mother about this if you met her today? -- I submit to you that there are a lot of people in this town, state, country and planet who were born to young, unwed mothers. Should these people be removed from society? Are their mothers whores like some of you on the left have called them? If the mothers remained unmarried and the children grew up to be responsible citizens in the way that many of our population have these days, where is the issue here? -- Are the Palins hypocrites for saying they support life, are against abortion, and now are encouraging their daughter to keep their baby? -- Anyone here on these comment boards have a mother, sister, wife, or daughter who had a surprise pregnancy at an early age and had the baby? Was it you? Should that baby have been aborted?

22 Is Gov Palin going to be VP or Secretary of HHS or Surgeon General?

I only ask because I'm curious as how this is relevant.

23 "Hey, man, that's bad advice, quite frankly, and with all due apologies to Catholic readers. At least if your primary concern is avoiding pregnancy."

Well, it sure won't work well for STD's either.  So, Ace, for what concern would the rhythm method not be bad advice?

24 Ace, just an FYI:  It does not taste much like orange juice.

25 Honestly, people: WE CANNOT waste time discussing the insane talking points raised by leftist blogs. Otherwise, Gov Palin will only be discussed negatively.

She did not support "abstinence-only"education: her government merely adhered to the abstinence-first federal policy, as so many states - including Pennsylvania... And why should this matter? The crazy-left is only discussing this as a way to call attention upon the "false scandal" of the Governor's daughter.

--

The left is playing a very wise game in this election: their candidate talks about decency, while their surrogates in the press and on the web trash conservatives with no shame. We MUST answer fire with fire. Let us not be on the defensive, but let us post and publish our attacks: from Biden's plagiarism and the number of HIS houses to Obama's links with the Chicago political mafia and Marxist underground. All has to be repeated over and over again: THEY must be on the defensive.

26 So apparently it's Sarah Palin's fault that Bristol got pregnant, because Sarah didn't teach Bristol to slap on a jimmy hat before screwing.

Here's something that I know for a fact that Sarah Palin taught her daughter: don't screw until you're married.

If Bristol didn't listen to her mother about not screwing until she's married, what makes you think that she'd listen to her about wrapping Levi's willie?

27

From what I remember about junior hi sex ed- and I gotta go way back to the early 70s part of my reptilian brain to do so- it was more of a 'health class' back then. Big focus on the clap and crabs and yeast infections. There might have been something in there about 'rubbers', and at what age girls start sporting titties.

But enough of this shit. Bristol Palin's swellin' belly has nothing to do with sending CPT Bullshit back to whatever shithole Chicago 'community' needs organizing next.

28 Yeah, they didn't have fancy birth control back in my day....like pulling out.

29 I don't understand people who say that abstention does not work. It works. You just have to do it right.

30 All I know is that, as a married man, the rhythm method is surpassed by the "leave me alone! I'm too tired!" method most wimmins use.

31 To wit, if you have sex enough times -- even around 30 -- then a cumulative 1% chance of getting pregnant each go adds up to a rather serious chance of becoming pregnant over the course of that activity. (Similar to the birthday paradox -- if you have 35 randomly selected people in a room, the odds are actually 50% there'll be two people with the same birthday.)

At 30 times, with a 1% chance the chance of pregnancy is less than 30%.  Multiplying the number of couplings by X does not produce an X increase in the percentage likelihood of pregnancy.

But if you double the number of people in a class, the chance of a shared birthday more than doubles.

32 I remember my health/sex ed teacher pretty much thought men were all scum and she would not hesitate to tell us.  That said, I know the best, most fool proof method of birth control:  I was born ugly, I'm hung like an 8 year-old asian boy and I tend to drool when I "talk" to women.  And by talk, I mean photograph them from outside their homes.  It sure has worked so far!

33

Most people who object to sex ed in schools aren't against sex education -- they just want to do it themselves, and are frankly suspicious (with some good reason) that government-school sex-ed teachers will be a bit more pro-sex and bit less pro-abstinence than they'd like.

Exactly.  My wife and I are going to have several frank discussions with our kid(s) about sex, and we've agreed to cover EVERYTHING and not pull any punches.

This is our job as parents.  I'm not entrusting that to anyone else, certainly not some liberal governement drone.

  It's not about prudishness.  It's about our parental right to handle this stuff in the way we see fit.

34 Um, the reaction. I've been told mine taste of liquid rainbows and butterscotch.

35

Rythem method?

I don't blame you guys for not knowing this but the people you think are using rythem method, aren't.

Look up natural family planning. There are two basic methods (that I know of) but both of them require women to check there physiological signs for fertility daily. These methods work: IF you are well instructed in them and IF you have the self-control to wait through the fertile times. They have nothing to do with counting days and they recognise that women sometimes get pregnant during there periods.

By the way, I find it laughable that the assumption is that Bristol used no birth-control. Does no-one else recall freinds and acquintances in a panic over the "broken condom" or the late period while on the pill. If a method is 98 percent effective that means IT FAILS 2% OF THE TIME!

36 ``I think she misled the girls on that one. She kinda of forgot to mention the presence of corposine and putrisine, two chemicals associated with human decomposition.''

A college acquaintance of mine (female) from many years back likened the taste to a combination of ``dead fish and Ajax.''   The putrisine etc. would account for that, I guess.

And just for the record, the Rhythm Method was superseded by Natural Family Planning (NFP) oh, thirty years ago.  It's much more accurate, and you don't have to pop pills or mess around with condoms. 

37 She kinda of forgot to mention the presence of corposine and putrisine, two chemicals associated with human decomposition.

Andrew Sullivan, necrophiliac!

38 Just to be the token practicing Catholic here: The Catholic church hasn't taught the rhythm method for decades. Now it's the Natural Family Planning method, which combines the rhythm method with other symptoms to either prevent or encourage pregnancy. And the statistics do bear out the fact that it is more effective than a condom when both are used properly. Like you said, you have to count days -- but this adds taking her temperature in the morning (orally, you pervert) and one or two other things. But the Church does not advocate teaching the method to (unwed) teenagers IIRC, and it certainly does nothing about STDs.

39

If Bristol didn't listen to her mother about not screwing until she's married, what makes you think that she'd listen to her about wrapping Levi's willie?

Who says they didn't suit up?  Those things aren't 100% effective.  It says so right on the box.

40 Crap, I forgot about the counting. There is counting, as gleeful said but it revolves around signs of feritlity.

41

Barbelle has GOT to be a moby.

We had sex-ed as part of Biology in sixth grade. But please, tell us why we Real Conservatives are supposed to be against learning how the human body works.

42 Dunno if anyone else mentioned this, but it seems to me when clinton was busy molesting near minors and suborning perjury to cover it up all the lefties could do was bleat about how "what happens in the bedroom is nobody's business" and assorted other complete bullshit.

How come all of a sudden they feel emboldened to yammer tastelessly and pathetically about a 17 YEAR OLD girl who last I checked was neither in public office or running for public office?

Nah, no hypocrisy here. None at all.

Pathetic fucking pile of douche cunt mother fucking ass licking vaginal blood fart fucksticks, if yer asking me.

Oh, and hope that helps with the curse rating.

Fuckheads.

43 I am so disappointed that Sarah Palin is irresponsible enough to run for Vice-President with a pregnant daughter!  And McCain the cowardly swiftboat soldier is using her as a human shield!  And Bristol isn't the mother of either this current baby or Trig!  The real mother is Todd Palin!  Who is obviously a bitter fisherman who can't get over his wife's political success!  And has emphysema!

44 Let's cut through the weeds here: the left is desperately looking for anything that they can point to and screech "IT'S ABOUT TEH HYPOCRISY!!!1!!tan (5π/4)!!i^4!!!lim x->0 ((sin x)/x)!!!!" They're having a rough time of it, so they're hanging their hats on this abstinence education thing which, as Ace has pointed out, is silly.

They can't say "Palin opposes abortion, but her kid had one."
They can't say "Palin has condemned those who get pregnant out of wedlock, but her kid did."
They can't say "Palin has called those parents whose children get knocked up are bad parents, and now her kid got knocked up."
They can't say "Plain opposes contraception for everyone," because she doesn't, and besides, what the fuck does that have to do with TEH HYPOCRISY?

What do they have left? Abstainence-only education didn't work in this instance, so it can never work and Palin is stupid. Well, nobody ever said that abstainence-only education was foolproof, and if graphic sex ed worked, no teenagers would ever get pregnant or contract an STD. They each have (apparently very controversial) failure rates, and this turns out to be one of them.

Hell, I even concede for the sake of argument that Palin's position on sex ed (if she even has ever articulated one) might not be the most effective one for preventing teen pregnancy rates. But that doesn't make her a hypocrite, nor does it address the philosophical arguments about why the hell the schools should be doing teaching students how to fuck safely.

45

"This whole line of questioning, it seems to me, is offered by the left as a way of discussing Bristol Palin's pregnancy as often as possible under the guise of discussing a "legitimate public health issue."

The left? If you mean CNN and that slugfaecd cunt Wolf Blitzer, MSNBC and Headline News, then sure...

We remember that Wolf pulled this kind of lowdown bullshit before. He deserves someone kicking his ass for a few hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGFPLWj-0pI

46

David Ross,

Barbelle is not a moby,  trust me.

And zipping back to a comment you made the other day thinking that I implied that you're moby, uh, no dude.  I was talking about the kind of comments that ace just posted below. I'm on this stupid blog every day. I know who all the regulars are. 

47 Barbelle is a well-known AoS regular under a new name.  Witness Protection Program and all that.

48 My biggest gripe is that there are usually no academic alternatives to sex ed. If you want to have your kid sit out sex ed/"life choices" or whatever they call it in your district, they just have to sit it out - they can't attend a useful elective or pursue their own interest. Instead, they get treated like they're some sort of "freaks" for having responsible, candid parents. I'm from Florida, and the sex ed teacher in my school was an immigrant from the Caribbean who no one understood anyways. Of course, that should say something for the perceived importance of the topic in the school. I won't let my kids attend sex ed in public schools. Not because I don't think they should know the facts of life - they should. I just don't want an hour a day of a whole semester of their lives to be taken up on a lesson that can take one, two hours tops.

49 Did I mention I was a total asshole on national TV over his issue?

50

Nothing sucks the wind out your opponents' sails like attacking their teenage daughter for political thrills.  Schadenfreude - it's not just a breached levee in New Orleans.

Well played.

51

First of all, why are all the comments italicized now?

Second of all, have you seen a picture of Bristol's boyfriend? At 17, I'd hit that too. Actually, I'm 38, and I still might. Here's a link to the story on him:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html

52 23, Ace. You get a 50% chance of a shared birthday with 23 people.
1 - 365!/((365 - n)! 365^n) = 0.507 for n =23

53 "Um, the reaction."

So have you always had a strong reaction to the taste of semen, Ace?

Just wondering  :-)

54 Re: the CNN shameless exploitation of a minor

Basically CNN is saying "fuck you, we got no use for you" to the victims of Hurricane Gustav. The storm that was soooooooo important for the last 5 days gets pushed off of the agenda so they can push this new anti-GOP propaganda.

55 Check out David Gillies doing the two-tail kangaroo probability test.

^{Yes, I just made that up.}

56

We need to investigate why it was that the Democrat Party almsot had as their candidate Johnny Boy Edwards, who was fucking a cokeslut escort and has now put her up in a gigantic house, or maybe how Barry feels about drug policy in the USA since he is also a former coke user.

But, instead, Wolf Blitzerer will go after a 17 year old girl.

Just fuckin amazing.

57 Second of all, have you seen a picture of Bristol's boyfriend? At 17, I'd hit that too. Actually, I'm 38, and I still might. Here's a link to the story on him:

Levi has a beard and is a football player! When Milky Loads finds out that Levi's a bear, he's gonna put down the eight plates that he's squatting and try to penetrate Levi's Power Glutes!

58 CNN only goes after hard news that matters. Which explains why they laid off John Edwards. After all, he was only on Obama's short list for VP. No news value there.

59

It's ok, Wolf Blitzer can smell news like Andi Sullivan can smell vulnerable teen boys who like Pelican 100.

The Edwards story was a non-story, because everybody knew he had no chance. It was totally unimportant to go and look into it.

But a 17 year old girls' pregnancy, all over that shit, because she is a BREEDER.

60 At 30 times, with a 1% chance the chance of pregnancy is less than 30%. 

It's 26%. So using a contraceptive method with a 1% failure rate 30 times gives you a 26% chance of pregnancy.

It's math day in the moronosphere!

61

As a Christianist, I can say the CNN narritive is right. Jesus wouldn't approve. However, he would love and forgive and then help in a practical way. So I followed his lead, said a prayer for God's guidence for Bristol and her family and then sent an extra hundred with the money I was giving to McCain and Palin, just to make sure that momma Palin has an extra Franklin to help her little girl as she prepares to become a mom.

Thanks CNN, you made me feel all warm and fuzzy with philanthropy!

62

Thank you, gentlemen, for stating the obvious to the oblivious; I am not a Moby.

We had sex-ed as part of Biology in sixth grade.

Gross.  I remember those "films;" the poor kids were white as sheets after they saw them (I volunteered at the school library for a few years).  I pre-empted mine, with the message, "Anything my children need to learn will be taught at home."

But please, tell us why we Real Conservatives are supposed to be against learning how the human body works.

Oh, please, do tell me where I EVER said that?  Are your parents so incredibly thick that they couldn't have given you instruction?

Furthermore, learning Reproduction in Biology is NOT the same thing as being taught Sex Ed.  The former is science, the latter delves into sexuality and forms of birth control, which can and does intrude on a personal sense of morality.  That's NOT the government's place, yet they've taken it over, based merely on the notion that "parents aren't doing it so, Gosh Darn, someone has to."

And my my, relinquishing education of the most personal matter to a human over to the government sure isn't very CONSERVATIVE, now, is it?  In fact, one would think that a TRUE conservative would vehemently object.

Moby, my round tail.

63

"relinquishing education of the most personal matter to a human over to the government sure isn't very CONSERVATIVE"

No, it's a leftist idea, you fucking idiots have been ruining schools, and as it would follow, young children's minds, for a long time now.

Don't you have a banana to wrap a condom onto and then show it to 6th graders?

That's what passes for Progressive sex education these days.

64

That's what passes for Progressive sex education these days.

Not to mention the fact that using a banana sets the bar rather high for most of those boys, and sets up some future disappointment for a lot of those girls.

65 hey dumbbell, why'd you change your name?

66 I was told there'd be no math.

67 Not to mention the fact that using a banana sets the bar rather high for most of those boys, and sets up some future disappointment for a lot of those girls.

If you want something curved and with a rough tip shoved into your cooch, fine with me. That does seem to explain a lot.

68 Maybe it is just me but I don't think teen age pregnancy became a "crisis" until after we started having sex ed in school. Seems like before that it happened infrequently and had a stigma attached. Of course now the  stigma is gone.

69 OK, who the hell did Barbelle used to be? Did I miss something?

70

hey dumbbell, why'd you change your name?

Use the new name correctly and I'll consider telling you.  No, I'm kidding, I really won't, but it's just peachy to have you talking to me in such an engaging, original fashion!

If you want something curved and with a rough tip shoved into your cooch, fine with me. That does seem to explain a lot.

Anything would have a much chance at it than the likes of you.  And I have NO doubt you've heard all variations of that phrase from every female, most males, and the majority of species you've ever met.

71 What are we using, Bayes Theorem?

72 It rather defeats the purpose if my old identity keeps cropping up.

73 ...it's just peachy to have you talking to me in such an engaging, original fashion!

If you've been around these parts long enough, dumbbell, you'd know this is how I roll.

I'm Bart...this is what I do.

74 Well, slap my pink ass with a fudge-covered fuckstick and call me Andrew!

How in the blue blazes did a-poppin' tacos become a presidential issue? Is she being impeached from the PTA?

75 I always thought the rythem method was doin it to music.

 

76 yeah, that's more or less the effort by the left: eeek she's living in sin! You won't vote for HER will you???

77

If you've been around these parts long enough, dumbbell, you'd know this is how I roll.

I'm Bart...this is what I do.

Sorry, some people don't stick in the memory that much.

78 I know who Barbelle used to be, but I'm not going to reveal it just to piss Bart off.  I recommend everyone else do the same.

79 The interesting thing about the Bennet video is that if you listen to the report that prompted it CNN was out investigating the "Palin's daughter had a disabled child" story.  They were investigating, seriously.  Just like they didn't seriously investigate the Edwards story.   They were sympatico with Sullivan... 
http://radiovice.blogspot.com/2008/09/cnns-bill-bennett-bashes-cnn-coverage.html

80 The idea that one can draw any sensible conclusions about whether Sarah Palin's personal or school-based sex education policy "worked" or "didn't work" based on her daughter's pregnancy is an absolute crap idea, and should not be given the time of day.  No type of sex education, moral education or any other kind of education, however or wherever conducted, results in 100% of the "students" scoring 100% on every test. 

81

 I know who Barbelle used to be, but I'm not going to reveal it just to piss Bart off.  I recommend everyone else do the same.

Heh.  Some things don't change.

But seriously, the old name needs to get dropped.  I won't be aournd that much, anyway.

82 I saw Kristol go at Mort and I was surprised; I've never seen him lose his temper like that.  He meant it.  It was great!  Mort was clearly using the girl as a way to blather about a platform and what he said about the governor being against sex ed was totally wrong.  Kristol made him look like the idiot tool he is.

83 I'm not usually around that much anyway.  The classic era of Ace commenters has passed.  The heyday was from 2004-2005.  These new guys?  Mostly just pussies.

84 #82 - Sweign:

Can you give me any further context?  What show?  Network (I assume Fox)? Time?  Ideally I'd like to see the video myself.  Youtube will hopefully be my friend.

85 Actually I think the story the blogs should have the most fun with is that CNN was out investigating the Palin was never pregnant story.  Up to now I had always assumed MSNBC was the deranged news channel.

86 Too late Jackstraw.

Um... I think she misled the girls on that one. She kinda of forgot to mention the presence of corposine and putrisine, two chemicals associated with human decomposition.

I have the feeling that my husband will be coming after Ace with a ball gag and a baseball bat.

87

I'm not usually around that much anyway.  The classic era of Ace commenters has passed.  The heyday was from 2004-2005.  These new guys?  Mostly just pussies.

You're still here at least, as are a few others.  It's a cyclical thing.  But, I really miss reading some of the old posters.

88 Ace has his own ball gag, but he never seemed like the jock type to me so go ahead and bring the bat.

89

You're still here at least, as are a few others.  It's a cyclical thing.  But, I really miss reading some of the old posters.

I miss Cedarford.

90 You only need 22 people to have better than 50-50 of having the same birthday.
Thanks, Excel spreadsheets!!

91 I have a response to this post here.

92

Let's not forget that Alaska isn't going to populate itself.

 

93

I miss Cedarford.

ACK!  lol.  What an unfortunate blast from the past.

94 We can bring back DD, actus, and that guy who claimed to work for the DoD (John Ryan) if you want to.

95

I saw the Kondracke clip where he said that running for President is a qualification for being President live and I couldn't believe it.  It basically summarized everything that is wrong with Washington DC and the inside the beltway media elite.  Krystal got to jump in first and had great fun making sport of Kondracke's idiocy (I'm not saying Kondracke is dumb I'm just saying the statement he made is idiotic).  However, it was this sarcasticly delivered quote delivered by Hume a couple minutes later that I wanted to dip my balls in:

HUME: Flip the question around, though. How can the Obama camp, as it has tried to do today, criticize Sarah Palin's experience when Obama's experience, apart from a Mort's significant portfolio of having run for president for two years, seems a little thin?

This Palin pick has got the left stuck on stupid and I'm not sure if they are going to be able to pull themselves out.   

96

We can bring back DD, actus, and that guy who claimed to work for the DoD (John Ryan) if you want to.

I think I get into enough fights without actively seeking them out.

97

ACK!  lol.  What an unfortunate blast from the past.

OK, now I'm really wondering who you were/are. I don't think there's too many of us that remember the idiot known as Cedarford. I hated him so much that I created a blog in his dishonor called Cedarford*Sucks.

http://cedarford.blogspot.com/

98 Had a talk about this with my 9th grade son tonight. We both concurred it seems that the whole Palin matter suggests that political differences are nothing more than the identification with either people that accept what life gives them and take responsibility for it, or whine, bitch, moan, scream of injustice, and attempt to pass ownership of the problem to someone else to fix. I'll leave it to the intelligent readers here to recognize which party is which.

So Palin's daughter had unprotected hetrosexual sex? And those of us straights here (unlike Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald who get lost trying to orient toward that "second hole of mysterious purpose") who had a life in high school and college can probably relate to the risk in one way or another.

The interesting narrative is how the daughter and the family handle the problem. As a risk manager for a global financial corp, the proof of managerial and process maturity is how something responds to crisis, not how it has avoided one. Crises invariably finds its way home- if not, you're too risk averse. As Palin said in her nomination acceptance speech, "A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not why it was built."

So with the daughter's inappropriate risk taking resulting in a preganancy, we see how the entire family has responded. Unity and the acceptance of responsibility. Not bad.

Compare that to Obama's declared method of handling such risk: Delete it. Kill it. Try to undo. Disregard whatever ethical/moral considerations, and just think about how you wouldn't want your girls "burdoned" with the mistake. So pretend to undo it, while ignoring the impact of that decision.

Obama's shown repeatedly that he's not ready to manage the risk of the United States. He hasn't managed risk for anything successfully - his community efforts were consistent failures, as were the efforts of the Chicago educational board which received hundreds of millions of dollars, only to result in external assessments showing education levels decreased.

Conclusion: It's not in how you've been lucky enough to live a sheltered life and avoid risks, but in how you handle what is given to you. McCain got shot down and took responsibility for his situation. Palin's shown the same character repeatedly in stepping up to what life dealt her.

99 How could people not remember Cedarford?  He combined eloquence and intelligence with progressively more and more overheated Jew-baiting.  He was sui generis, I'll give him that.

And by the way, when Steven den Beste drops in to troll-link his own blog, it's not really trolling at all, is it?  It's totally fucking awesome is what it is.  Somebody make sure Ace finds out.

100

Digital, I assume you have access to Faces From Aces.  I'm under the Bs.

And of course I remember Cedarford and your website.  He had a real anti-Israel thing happening.  He had that rare educated but stupid thing going on.

101 Damn it David Gilles.
You got there first and I meant to type 23.
Son of a bitch.

102 I miss Bob Munck. I really do.

103

Digital, I assume you have access to Faces From Aces.  I'm under the Bs.

Gotcha.

104 I've been around that long too.
I also changed my nic and I don't post nearly as much now as then.
Welcome back around, Barbelle.

And you can always read Cedarford over at Ann Althouse's blog.

105 I miss Geoff.  I miss others, but he's the first name that popped to mind.

106 I wonder if he'd remember me. I should swing by and say hello.

107

Thanks, Nom.

And you can always read Cedarford over at Ann Althouse's blog.

Not for any amount of money.

108

I wonder if he'd remember me. I should swing by and say hello.

*snort*

On the other hand, I may want to see that.

109 We had a special relationship. I once offered to fly to whatever city he was living in and introduce myself, but he didn't seem interested. It would have been totally heterosexual. Maybe a little spooning, but nothing more than that.

110

Maybe a little spooning, but nothing more than that.

I would DEFINITELY want to see that.

Well, I'm about to pack it in for the night.  I'm still looking for a reason to vote for McCain other than "voting against Obama," so I'll be around.

111

Not sure if this has been discussed here but Red State seesm to have nailed down the ID of ArcXIX http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/sep/01/am-i-making-too-much-of-arcxix/ 

Here is an excerpt:

The ArcXIX character from the Daily Kos is quickly trying to hide his tracks.

ArcXIX/Agent Arc seems to created his web presence in 2005.

He seems to be lowlife twenty-five-sh male from Columbus OH infatuated with movies and Batman and creating and posting web images.

In the past few days, he has changed profiles to gosamgo and deleted blogs and has tried to cover his tracks. Google cache is still visible: this cache seems fairly incriminating: “Charles Hartley’s Page on 1UP.com “AgentArc”. Rank: Genome Soldier Total Points: 14231 AIM Name: ArcXIX. Charles’s Status … Charles Hartley’s My1UP Page: AgentArc.1up.com …” The non-cache page at 1Up.com is empty.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message597034/pg1 A posting by an “Anonymous Coward” directly links agentarc (now deleted) photobucket picture of the younger Palin.

I usually try not to discover people that try to be anonymous: but some scum attacking a seemingly decent 16 year old- That is where I draw the limit in protecting some lowlife’s cover.

Next step is to see if there is a link to the Obama campaign.

112 Your points are taken. But it's still not a _good_ thing, nor does it show much for Palin's parenting skills. Not just because her daughter didn't respect herself and her parents enough to use common sense. But because it's very likely the girl knew before her Mom was chosen (it would be too much of a coincidence otherwise) and she didn't tell her Mom so they could have diffused it sooner. Likely the brouhaha about her supposed fake pregnancy spooked the teenager into revealing the present mess. It wasn't what McCain needed. I've gone from pessimistic about this election to cautiously hopeful. Every percentage point will matter. This election could come down to a few hundred votes, ala the 2000 election. This was not what McCain/Palin needed right now and it does speak to Palin's judgment and McCain's in trusting her, sorry. And I say that as a fan of Palin. You have to deal with reality here.

113 Docweasel, don't you have some more underage girl-exploiting porn to post on your shitty website?  Why don't you go do that and keep yourself away from this and all other blogs, mmkay?

114 I haven't thought about Cedarford in ages - he was something.

I do think that the assumption that the Evangelical Right will be all horrified by this displays a complete lack of knowledge of anyone in that community.  Sure, there's going to be a section that is all tsk tsk but the majority will view this as living what you preach. 

I am deeply concerned that the press is going to harass these kids, and they are kids, and make this exponentially more difficult.  They're kids who made a mistake and now are stepping up.  Leave them alone.  And sadly, that's too much to ask.

115 Likely the brouhaha about her supposed fake pregnancy spooked the teenager into revealing the present mess.

Nope:

Culvahouse then conducted a nearly three-hour interview. He said the first thing Palin volunteered was that her daughter was pregnant, and she also quickly disclosed her husband's two-decade-old DUI arrest.

116 "And you can always read Cedarford over at Ann Althouse's blog."

downtownlad too.  He's even more unhinged than before, if you can believe that.

117

Dude,

How does it help the Ace of Spades lifestyle for you spilling the beans that sperm doesn't taste like Sunny Delight?

How exactly?

I'll tell you how: It doesn't.

Ixnay.

Capice?

118

Like a few others mentioned: you don't just count days. The lady takes a daily body temp in the early morning (usually: you just have to be consistent about the time). Next, you check the color and lubricity of her vaginal fluids ...and you keep a chart of the info.

...and after helping her with all this, you fuck like rabbits for the next hour or so.

I loved practicing the rhythm method. It worked wonderfully in many and unexpectedly delightful ways.

119

Rhythm method no workee.  Hell, I'm a rhythm method baby. (Thank God for the rhythm method. )

But. Natural Family Planning (not Not NOT the same thing) is 99% effective when properly done: much more effective than condoms and a hair more effective than the (properly taken) Pill.  People don't know the difference.

And yes, it's approved by the Catholic Church too.

120 Best birth control ever?

Ugliness.

121

Nice post by den Beste, Ace should forgive him.

I'm amazed at all the frothing over her age.  "Aieee! She's 17! She's underage!  17 year old kids are too retarded and iggornat to have sex and not be destroyed!"  Please.  When I was in high school back in 1974-78, I knew plenty of kids from 16 up who were getting it on.  Most of my friends "lost it" before 18.  And not one of them ended up in a trailer park with their lives ruined.  Anyone who says "Well, it wasn't like that in MY high school!" must have gone to school at a convent, is clueless, or is full of shit.  High school is a giant foaming sea of hormones looking for each other.  And it's not like bad decisions over sex magically stop at 12:00:01 AM on the 18th birthday.  18 is a convenient line for legal reasons, but it's exactly as immutable as the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I don't consider it unlikely that Bristol is fully capable of making this decision for herself, even if other people may not agree with it for moral reasons (mostly those on the left, who seem to have had a peculiar outbreak of selective morality these days). 

122 How do I look in my new nic?

123 Some FACTS, people:

1)  Natural Family Planning is NOT the same as "rhythm method." When practiced correctly, it is as effective as the Pill in preventing pregnancy.

2)  The Pill does not completely stop ovulation. Because the side effects of early versions of the Pill were so awful, progesterone dosages were decreased in later formulations, causing "breakthrough ovulation" to occur more often. In up to 10 percent of the monthly cycles of a woman on the Pill, ovulation DOES take place, and there is thus a possibility of pregnancy.

3)  One of the mechanisms of the Pill is to alter the uterine lining so that in the event of pregnancy, implantation of the embryo is thwarted, the embryo thus cannot receive the nourishment it needs, it then dies and is passed out of the body, without the woman ever even knowing she was pregnant. Thus the Pill works, at least some of the time, by causing a very early abortion.

4)  Even so, there is still a 1 to 2 percent "failure" rate on the Pill, meaning conception, implantation and a detectable (post-implantation) pregnancy.

Natural Family Planning works, both for couples trying to avoid a pregnancy, and for couples having fertility problems who are trying to achieve a pregnancy. I know this from experience, because my husband and I have been in both situations, at different times, and NFP is all we've ever used.

Medical research, training in the method, and education and outreach related to NFP  all intersect at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska, where Dr. Thomas Hilgers, the leading medical expert on the subject, teaches at Creighton's medical school. If you're interested in considering NFP yourself, google the Couple to Couple League, they offer a ton of resources, networking and support.

124 No time to read the comments, but one little issue about the content of semen: swallowing must be optional based on aesthetic issues, but no girl or woman should put anything into her vagina that she considers "unclean" to the degree that she wouldn't put it in her mouth. Absolutely not. (The standard should be higher, actually!--at least saliva has germ-killing capabilities.) * * * The sex-education issue is the same as the counseling-for-unplanned pregnancy issue: neither side trusts the other to play fair. Nor should they: the ideological divide is too sharp. That is why I often get into arguments with another female blogger who is pro-choice technically, but anti-abortion in general (like me), over parental notification laws. She thinks parents have a right to know, and she is correct. But she also thinks most families function normally, and I'm not so sure about that: the Sarah Palins of the world are wonderful, but can we trust that the other kind is statistically insignificant? My fear with parental notification is that it might increase the rate in teenaged female suicides. Our argument comes down to this: how many teenaged girls can talk about this stuff with their mothers? And the sex education issue is similar: how many young women and men are getting accurate information about the human reproductive system at home? I think it might be fewer than we think, but reasonable people can disagree with all of this. And it has nothing to do with the Palins: I'm sure Sarah told her daughter the facts of life (she, um, kind of had to), and this pregnancy happened anyway, because not only does Life march on--life marches on. Stuff happens.

125
Kathy, you're right. My wife and I practiced the Billings Ovulation Method for decades, until she entered menopause.

My wife had a very irregular period, and she found the tracking of her cycles to be very helpful.

As a bonus, we found that the monthly period of abstinence greatly helped our intimate relationship: we both looked forward to "green light" nights a lot, and tried to make them special.

I must add, though, that BOM works only if you follow the rules scrupulously. Which is why we had our last child in our 40s.

126 Jeff B., I dont' know you and I don't know what crawled up your ass but fuck off. I'll post here unless Ace tells me not to. Speaking of smears, where do you see any underage girls on the blog - although some perverts must believe it, there's several dozen hits from my comment. Why don't you MYOB and STFU?

127 Okay, Christianist here again to speak up for the Church. The rhythm method (which involves counting days, and that's it) doesn't work. Agreed. Fertility charting does work, as Brown Line and Kathy from Kansas mention above. I've been using it for a couple years now, and no problems; my family has extremely fertile women and my own direct experience is that if I can get pregnant, I do get pregnant (so far... I'm getting up there in years now). Speaking of, some women in my family have used the Pill, and even Norplant, and gotten pregnant while using. Obviously the failure rate for condoms is much higher. I am fine with teaching my kids about all these methods, but with the reality involved with each -- if you're having sex, you might get pregnant (except if you've had your ovaries and/or uterus removed.... or you're post-menopausal.) And even more, there are some STDs that there are no protections against. I think the standard sex ed classes do not let the kids learn about the risks involved.

128 I know someone has mentioned it above, but in the birthday problem, it takes only 23 people to get better than 50% chance that two have the same birthday (assuming birthdays are uniformly distributed on the calendar, which they're not, and ignoring leap day.... still, it's pretty close). Anyway, I wrote about birth control probabilities back in April 2001: http://www.marypat.org/stuff/nylife/010420.html And huh, I have a bit about teenaged mothers at the very end.

129 Is this where we get to point out that Ann Dunham -- the mother of  Obama -- was seventeen and unmarried when she got herself knocked up with the Messiah?

And that she was bonking a married man who had one infant and antoehr on the way with his wife?

'Cause...iceburn.

130 What do they have left? Abstainence-only education didn't work in this instance, so it can never work and Palin is stupid. Well, nobody ever said that abstainence-only education was foolproof, and if graphic sex ed worked, no teenagers would ever get pregnant or contract an STD. They each have (apparently very controversial) failure rates, and this turns out to be one of them.

Abstinence education is like counter-terrorism: It has to work every single time, or it will be widely (not universally, but widely) perceived as a failure. Sperm, like terrorists, only have to be successful once.

On the other hand, there is such a thing as sex ed working too well. I wonder what sex ed is like in the EU nations?

131 Hmmmm

*shrug* hey condoms break. 

It's entirely possible that her boyfriend was using a condom and it simply broke.  They do break with a failure rate of anywhere from a low of 2% to as high as 8%, depending on age, storage conditions and application.

Note: storing a rubber in your wallet is not a good idea.  But if you're going to then make sure to replace it every couple weeks.  Particularly if you carry your wallet in a back pocket.

132 Hmmmm.

@ Warden

"Exactly.  My wife and I are going to have several frank discussions with our kid(s) about sex, and we've agreed to cover EVERYTHING and not pull any punches."

Good luck explaining Golden Showers, B&D, adult diapers and anal sex.

133 Note: storing a rubber in your wallet is not a good idea.

At my age, I carry a Lactaid pill in my wallet.

134 Ok, they are basing this whole Palin supports abstinence only education on this:

In an Eagle Forum Alaska questionnaire, Palin gave this response to the following question:

Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

This sounds more like she opposed explicit sex-ed than she supported abstinence only.

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