April 28, 2006
True-Blue "Undocumented Americans" Plan To Shut Down US Cities If They Don't Get What They Want
— Ace Well, they've convinced me! Certainly attempting to hurt the economy is a patriotic action of true-hearted American. Look at the patriots at the NYT, for example!
— Ace Well, they've convinced me! Certainly attempting to hurt the economy is a patriotic action of true-hearted American. Look at the patriots at the NYT, for example!
Pro-immigration activists say a national boycott and marches planned for May 1 will flood America's streets with millions of Latinos to demand amnesty for illegal immigrants and shake the ground under Congress as it debates reform.Such a massive turnout could make for the largest protests since the civil rights era of the 1960s, though not all Latinos were comfortable with such militancy, fearing a backlash in Middle America.
Oh, that's just crazy-talk. Americans love law-breakers who come here and begin making demands on us while making our lives difficult.
Seriously-- shut the cities down. Have fun. Because within a month, your asses will be booted nice and high over the Rio F'n' Grande.
"There will be 2 to 3 million people hitting the streets in Los Angeles alone. We're going to close down Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Tucson, Phoenix, Fresno," said Jorge Rodriguez, a union official who helped organize earlier rallies credited with rattling Congress as it weighs the issue.Immigration has split Congress, the Republican Party and public opinion. Conservatives want the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants returned to Mexico and a fence built along the border.
Others, including President George W. Bush, want a guest-worker program and a path to citizenship. Most agree some reform is needed to stem the flow of poor to the world's biggest economy.
"We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," Rodriguez said.
Let me quote the great American patriot and estimable jurist Judge Smails:
"You'll get nothing and like it."
Posted by: Ace at
09:23 AM
| Comments (134)
Post contains 312 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Conservatives want the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants returned to Mexico and a fence built along the border. Others, including President George W. Bush, ...
Does that mean al-Reuters does not consider Bush a conservative?
Does that mean al-Reuters does not consider Bush a conservative?
Posted by: Captain Chaos at April 28, 2006 09:34 AM (zVHNC)
2
Fuck, this look likes the perfect opportunity to bring in a couple thousand buses and get this process going.
We'd save millions of tax dollars.
We'd save millions of tax dollars.
Posted by: ether at April 28, 2006 09:37 AM (G2Zo+)
3
Si, on uno de Mayo, we don't want to do the thousands of jobs that Americans don't want to do.
No cerveza, no trabajo!
No cerveza, no trabajo!
Posted by: Ese at April 28, 2006 09:39 AM (pzen5)
4
Mass arrests and deportation, we know they're going to be there. And if they resist or riot, it's Tienamen time. I'm so fucking sick of illegal immigrants, something drastic has to be done to stop them. It's much to late to take civil and restrained measures. We gave them an inch, they took a mile, and now they're saying it's not really our country at all, it's theirs. I'd fucking cheer if the Army came in and mowed these fuckers and their commie friends down.
Posted by: Moonbat_One at April 28, 2006 09:54 AM (qlF1y)
5
"Fuck, this look likes the perfect opportunity to bring in a couple thousand buses and get this process going."
Brilliant! It's like one stop shopping...
Brilliant! It's like one stop shopping...
Posted by: Achmed at April 28, 2006 09:56 AM (j4t+e)
6
I just have to say, whoever is advising these people must be against illegal immigration because they seem to be going out of their way to make these hispanics more unlikable and resented.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2006 10:00 AM (1Vbso)
7
Where is our revolt? How can we turn it on the illegals? Can we boycott the companies (ie Tyson Foods) that support this? What can I do to punish Mexico? I want a march dammit!
I'm a legal alien, got here fair and square, the rest of them can do the SAME DAMN THING!
I'm angry and ready for a rumble but where is it?
I'm a legal alien, got here fair and square, the rest of them can do the SAME DAMN THING!
I'm angry and ready for a rumble but where is it?
Posted by: SJR at April 28, 2006 10:01 AM (7v3tT)
8
Our elected Republican idiots in Congress will appease the protesters by giving them amnesty.
I don't know what to do to reach these ignorant bastids. I faxed short letters to Frist, Hastert and other congressmen.
I don't know what to do to reach these ignorant bastids. I faxed short letters to Frist, Hastert and other congressmen.
Posted by: Bart at April 28, 2006 10:05 AM (9+AmL)
9
Boy what a way to make a point, take a day off of the work you supposedly came here to perform, while those that either oppose you or are undecided on the matter, work or have to contend w/ businesses being shut down or traffic in the areas where the marches are taking place. While I’d love for the INS & ICE to be waiting & busting people, I too think it would do nothing but serve their side. I’d say raid companies that shut down on Monday, every day or so for the next month & see how those employers like it.
Posted by: PMain at April 28, 2006 10:08 AM (Wi32/)
10
To show you how desperate I am on this issue, I am willing to compromise.
I would grant amnesty and citizenship to all the illegals who are here now in exchange for for allowing no more illegals into the country.
With Bush's and the Dem's plan, all the illegals receive amnesty and citizenship And the borders stay open for anyone else who wishes to come to America.
I would grant amnesty and citizenship to all the illegals who are here now in exchange for for allowing no more illegals into the country.
With Bush's and the Dem's plan, all the illegals receive amnesty and citizenship And the borders stay open for anyone else who wishes to come to America.
Posted by: Bart at April 28, 2006 10:11 AM (9+AmL)
11
The "Hispanic" groups calling for these protest marches have no idea what a stupid idea they are commiting to..There is going to be such a huge backlash by American CITIZENS and Legal immigrants against illegals that its not going to be funny and than the illegals are really going to be crying...And to add some salt to the wound that illegals are causing to the USA, has anyone here heard about the the Spanish version of the US National Anthem??..Ive already sent an email to the White House asking how the hell can this be, this is America and we speak English not Spanish..this bullshit must come to an end, these Hispanic groups are turning out to be as bad as the Muslim groups, demanding that we give them everything and anything they want.
Its daym high time to build that wall on the border with our "buddies" Mexico, and turn off ALL immigration to the USA until we the people , the AMERICAN CITIZENS, can make sure that the lunkheads in D.C. will enforce immigration laws 100%
And by lunkheads in D.C. i mean both Democrats AND Republicans as both parties are totally ignoring Legal citizens of this country while courting people who break US laws to sneak in across both the Southern and Northern borders...sorry Jose, Jesus and Abdullah, but if my ancestors had to go threw hell at Ellis Island to get into the USA, you shouldnt be allowed a free ride in, too freakin bad if you dont like it, theres the door.
Its daym high time to build that wall on the border with our "buddies" Mexico, and turn off ALL immigration to the USA until we the people , the AMERICAN CITIZENS, can make sure that the lunkheads in D.C. will enforce immigration laws 100%
And by lunkheads in D.C. i mean both Democrats AND Republicans as both parties are totally ignoring Legal citizens of this country while courting people who break US laws to sneak in across both the Southern and Northern borders...sorry Jose, Jesus and Abdullah, but if my ancestors had to go threw hell at Ellis Island to get into the USA, you shouldnt be allowed a free ride in, too freakin bad if you dont like it, theres the door.
Posted by: THANOS at April 28, 2006 10:15 AM (qn7dS)
12
They could have at least done this on the 5th, so we could take the day off and drink margueritas.
Posted by: geoff at April 28, 2006 10:16 AM (nH1Ad)
13
As a krout, it's the presumption of ethnic solidarity that creeps me out here. They seem to expect all of the *Latinos* in the country to strike, not just one's with illegals in their immediate family or something. I'd be very interested to see a breakdown on who it is that really participates in these protests and stuff. How many of them are illegals, how many are extremely left-wing third generation Mexican-Americans, etc.
Posted by: Dave Munger at April 28, 2006 10:18 AM (8dpsl)
14
I'm getting SO pissed at the refusal to report the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. I AM NOT ANTI IMMIGRANT!! Do you know what's anti-immigrant? All the fucking stupid hoops we make people jump through to immigrate here legally. It's HARD. Even if you have a skill.
We need more immigrants? Fine! Let's make it easier for good people to come here.
We need more immigrants? Fine! Let's make it easier for good people to come here.
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 28, 2006 10:18 AM (1HKrT)
15
Meanwhile, my friend from Africa (who's hard-working, law-abiding, and loves America) still doesn't have a greencard, despite years of working through the system.
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 10:19 AM (Uuy++)
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Besides May 1 being Commie lovers "May Day," it is also National Law Day
Ya gotta love the irony in that little factoid!
Ya gotta love the irony in that little factoid!
Posted by: TC@LeatherPenguin at April 28, 2006 10:22 AM (kd/kM)
17
I have been holding off on making a number of purchases ( clothes, hardware, CDs ,DVDs ) until May 1st.
Posted by: roc ingersol at April 28, 2006 10:23 AM (m2CN7)
18
I think every legal citizen of the US should take one hour off, just an hour, at the same time. Go into the streets and stand there flipping off the news cameras. The entire damn country would shut down.
For perspective, there are about three hundred million people in the USA. Keep that in mind when people count demonstrators.
For perspective, there are about three hundred million people in the USA. Keep that in mind when people count demonstrators.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2006 10:25 AM (1Vbso)
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 10:26 AM (Uuy++)
20
My local Congresscritters seem pretty strong on enforcing our borders, it's the Whitehouse and Frist that I worry about.
There's a lot of anger on this issue, as evidenced by some of the posts above. Internal strife will greatly hinder our ability to fight abroad, and I think Bush is derelict in his duty to be encouraging the anger by ignoring the legal citizens.
There's a lot of anger on this issue, as evidenced by some of the posts above. Internal strife will greatly hinder our ability to fight abroad, and I think Bush is derelict in his duty to be encouraging the anger by ignoring the legal citizens.
Posted by: adolfo 'build a wall velasquez at April 28, 2006 10:26 AM (bcRxw)
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Shoot! I'll even trade both Alito and Roberts for four Harriet Miers'.
I'll give my big SUV to government to use a shuttle for deportation. I'll pay for the gas, too!
adolfo, I heard the California State Senate voted in support of the illegal protest.
I'll give my big SUV to government to use a shuttle for deportation. I'll pay for the gas, too!
adolfo, I heard the California State Senate voted in support of the illegal protest.
Posted by: Bart at April 28, 2006 10:30 AM (9+AmL)
22
I'm volunteering here to fill in for an illegal on Monday, who has to take the day off for the Day of Immigrants march. Least I can do.
Posted by: SJR at April 28, 2006 10:41 AM (7v3tT)
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 10:43 AM (K2rlS)
Posted by: mojo at April 28, 2006 10:44 AM (/e3+k)
Posted by: Uninvited non-Worker at April 28, 2006 10:45 AM (9+AmL)
26
Like a lot of you, this is really starting to piss me off. It's almost as bad as the anti-war anti-Bush marchs except their crowds were a lot smaller. Wonder how many Hispanic citizens are supporting this. All these boycotts can do is worsen relations between Mexicans and the rest of us.
Posted by: docdave at April 28, 2006 10:47 AM (FS69l)
Posted by: Bart at April 28, 2006 10:47 AM (9+AmL)
28
I draw the line at voting for a Dem.
Me too, so long as the war on islamofascism needs fighting. But, you know, there goes our leverage with the republican party.
But I would have sex with Janet Reno and Madeline Albright.
You're a martyr. Me, I'll be the cameraman.
Me too, so long as the war on islamofascism needs fighting. But, you know, there goes our leverage with the republican party.
But I would have sex with Janet Reno and Madeline Albright.
You're a martyr. Me, I'll be the cameraman.
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 10:51 AM (ePQxy)
29
You'd need a popsickle stick to prop it up.
Posted by: adolfo velasquez at April 28, 2006 10:51 AM (bcRxw)
30
You'd need dim lights, plenty of booze and drugs, months (if not years) of total abstinence (no porn, no wanking), and lots of viagra (available courtesy of Ace of Spades comment spammers, bless their hearts).
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 10:54 AM (K2rlS)
31
I think I can get a semi if Janet shaves her nipples.
Posted by: Bart at April 28, 2006 10:56 AM (9+AmL)
32
Dang Sandy, that's really taking one for the team. Make Reno hurt for me, will you?
Posted by: David Koresh at April 28, 2006 10:59 AM (/2xR+)
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Hey, here's a thought: Let's make it illegal to hire an illegal. Oh, I know it's already illegal, I mean let's make it really illegal - serious monetary penalty and/or hard core jail time. If we can't stem the supply, we can cut off the demand, right? I mean, look what it did for the drug traffic, right? Oh, wait....
My point in the snark is: They come because they know there are scofflaws waiting to hire them (for less than they could pay a US citizen). The gov't let's them come because US businesses want them.
So we have two people breaking the law here: The illegal alien, who want to put bread on the table for his family, typically through backbreaking labor and US businesses and citizens who want better profits through extra-cheap, non-taxable* labor. Funny how no-one here is concerned about your fellow american criminals.
Sure, illegal aliens are criminals. But so are thier employers. Any solution to this problem will need to address both.
* Bonus: That's right, not only is hiring an illegal alien a crime in and of itsself, so is avoiding paying payroll taxes for thier labor!
My point in the snark is: They come because they know there are scofflaws waiting to hire them (for less than they could pay a US citizen). The gov't let's them come because US businesses want them.
So we have two people breaking the law here: The illegal alien, who want to put bread on the table for his family, typically through backbreaking labor and US businesses and citizens who want better profits through extra-cheap, non-taxable* labor. Funny how no-one here is concerned about your fellow american criminals.
Sure, illegal aliens are criminals. But so are thier employers. Any solution to this problem will need to address both.
* Bonus: That's right, not only is hiring an illegal alien a crime in and of itsself, so is avoiding paying payroll taxes for thier labor!
Posted by: Larry the U at April 28, 2006 11:03 AM (Lpswv)
Posted by: Bart at April 28, 2006 11:06 AM (9+AmL)
35
In 1998, Wal*Mart was fined $50,000 for demanding that their store cleaning contractors provide evidence that their employees had the legal right to work in the United States. The US Atty's office claimed it was a violation of their privacy.
In 2005, Wal*Mart was charged with neglecting to determine whether the employees of their cleaning contractors had the legal right to work in the United States. Federal Marshals entered their headquarters in Bentonville, siezed computers and records, and US District Attorneys held multiple press conferences (with cameras rolling) to tell the nation that they were going to clamp down on W*M's illegal hiring practices.
Case settled late 05.
In 2005, Wal*Mart was charged with neglecting to determine whether the employees of their cleaning contractors had the legal right to work in the United States. Federal Marshals entered their headquarters in Bentonville, siezed computers and records, and US District Attorneys held multiple press conferences (with cameras rolling) to tell the nation that they were going to clamp down on W*M's illegal hiring practices.
Case settled late 05.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 28, 2006 11:13 AM (pzen5)
36
The people I know who employ illegals are going to fire them if they boycott. Hilarious.
Posted by: Mike S. at April 28, 2006 11:14 AM (FnVST)
37
Apparently nobody involved in this has a functioning brain stem. I'll explain:
1) They're advocating breaking the law (not sending kids to school)
2) They're risking losing their jobs
3) They're supporting other people breaking the law
4) They're intentionally trying to hurt our economy. Not the best way to win over Joe and Jane Sixpack.
5) If a participant doesn't buy a ladder on Monday, he'll just go buy it on Tuesday. So, he's still spending the same money.
6) This is same logical fallacy that the folks that advocate "boycotting" gas stations for a day fall into. If they don't buy it today, they'll just buy it tomorrow.
Anyway, I'm really curious as to what reaction LULAC et al are expecting us normal to have. I certainly don't support them anymore than did before (which was ZERO), adn anybody they hurt in the process is likely to lose sympathy for them.
1) They're advocating breaking the law (not sending kids to school)
2) They're risking losing their jobs
3) They're supporting other people breaking the law
4) They're intentionally trying to hurt our economy. Not the best way to win over Joe and Jane Sixpack.
5) If a participant doesn't buy a ladder on Monday, he'll just go buy it on Tuesday. So, he's still spending the same money.
6) This is same logical fallacy that the folks that advocate "boycotting" gas stations for a day fall into. If they don't buy it today, they'll just buy it tomorrow.
Anyway, I'm really curious as to what reaction LULAC et al are expecting us normal to have. I certainly don't support them anymore than did before (which was ZERO), adn anybody they hurt in the process is likely to lose sympathy for them.
Posted by: The Greatmoose at April 28, 2006 11:23 AM (AdG8V)
38
They want to boycott May the first, fine. The rest of us can boycott Cinco de Mayo, and drink at home...Like we do on Uno de Mayo, Dos de Mayo, Tres de Mayo, etc. .
After all, how hard can it be to make a margarita? Where's the spirit that crossed the Delaware? That put a man on the moon? (insert generic rant here.)
After all, how hard can it be to make a margarita? Where's the spirit that crossed the Delaware? That put a man on the moon? (insert generic rant here.)
Posted by: vivi at April 28, 2006 11:25 AM (FKNPa)
39
Is Rodriguez the one who was on Dayside at Fox News this afternoon? If so, he is a LOON! And everyone booed him. He was AWFUL! So anti-American. He said he had dual citizenship,but he kept referring to "your" President and "your" country. Then he said something about bombing Iraq and a woman in the audience with a son in Iraq just gave him a big smackdown. It was awesome.
Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at April 28, 2006 11:26 AM (mvCeX)
40
Sure, illegal aliens are criminals. But so are thier employers.
I agree with you, which is a new and interesting experience.
Let's take a moment and consider an anecdote which indicates how truly f'd up the federal government is on this situation. I have an aquaintance who does admin work for a company in Southern California and one of her jobs is processing new hires. The feds kindly provide a hotline to verify SS#'s as being legit, but there is a catch. You are not supposed to call the number until they are hired and you are not supposed to fire the person based on the SS# not being legit. The first time she called and was told she had someone with a fake #, she asked the person what to do and they told her there was nothing she could do and nothing the government would do about the illegal based on her call. WTF.
I agree with you, which is a new and interesting experience.
Let's take a moment and consider an anecdote which indicates how truly f'd up the federal government is on this situation. I have an aquaintance who does admin work for a company in Southern California and one of her jobs is processing new hires. The feds kindly provide a hotline to verify SS#'s as being legit, but there is a catch. You are not supposed to call the number until they are hired and you are not supposed to fire the person based on the SS# not being legit. The first time she called and was told she had someone with a fake #, she asked the person what to do and they told her there was nothing she could do and nothing the government would do about the illegal based on her call. WTF.
Posted by: TheDude at April 28, 2006 11:30 AM (4H5ji)
41
If the govt't was wise it would watch which companies are closed and/or grind to a halt. Make notes. Check back on Tuesday and get the ones high-fiving each other.
They will march and the borders will continue to be open. You think Bush, Frist, Pelosi or anyone of them really care? They sit behind their fences and move around money and policy like they were pieces on a parcheesi board. That's parcheesi. Old school reference, for ya, vato!
They will march and the borders will continue to be open. You think Bush, Frist, Pelosi or anyone of them really care? They sit behind their fences and move around money and policy like they were pieces on a parcheesi board. That's parcheesi. Old school reference, for ya, vato!
Posted by: Pixelflash at April 28, 2006 11:37 AM (O+1/6)
42
Bush really wants everyone to sing the "Star Spangled Banner" in english. That should do it, huh? Just tell them they have to....they're really good at doing what they should. Register...pay taxes...be legal.
Posted by: Pixelflash at April 28, 2006 11:41 AM (O+1/6)
43
The sky is really falling and pigs do fly. The islamonazis are marching in solidarity with the illegals to demand open borders. The following was copied from LGF. If you have high blood pressure, you might want to take your pill before reading this:
Los Angeles, CA: In solidarity with immigration activists around the country, the Muslim Public Affairs Council as well as the Council on American-Islamic Relations - Los Angeles (CAIR-LA), the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California, the LA Latino Muslim Association, the Muslim American Society-Los Angeles, and the Muslim Students Association - West (MSA West) are calling on American Muslims to participate in a day of action on May 1, 2006.
On that day, the Multi-ethnic Immigrant Worker Organizing Network (MIWON) is holding a march near downtown Los Angeles in support of immigration reform and worker’ rights. MPAC is coordinating Muslim American participation in this important event, which affects Americans of all ethnic, racial and religious backgrounds. Similar events will be taking place across the country.
WHAT: International Worker’s Day Immigration March
WHERE: McArthur Park (7th & Alvarado near Downtown LA)
WHEN: Monday, May 1st, 2006 at 4:00 p.m.
CO-SPONSORS: Muslim Public Affairs Council, Council on American-Islamic Relations - Los Angeles (CAIR-LA), Islamic Shura Council of Southern California, L.A. Latino Muslim Association (LALMA), MSA West, Muslim American Society - Los Angeles (MAS-LA), Multi-ethnic Immigrant Worker Organizing Network (MIWON) - http://thistuesday.org/node/127
WHY SHOULD MUSLIMS GET INVOLVED?
Islam’s message is one of social justice, economic fairness, and fair treatment in the workplace. The Qur’an urges the proper treatment and respect of workers. Several Muslim leaders discussed the relevance of the Qur’an to the struggle for dignity in the workplace with union leaders and other religious leaders during the “Islam and Labor: Forging Partnerships Conference,” held November 10, 2001 in Washington, DC. Co-convened by the National Interfaith Committee for Worker Justice and the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC), the conference sought to build relationships between Muslims, interfaith committees and labor communities. As the Prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying, “None of you has faith unless you love for your brother what you love for yourself.”
It is against this backdrop that American Muslim organizations are calling for a comprehensive immigration reform that includes provisions for a pathway to lawful permanent residence for the undocumented currently in the United States, a temporary worker program that matches willing workers with willing employers, and a reduction in the current backlogs in family-based immigration to the United States.
HOW DO WE VIEW IMMIGRATION REFORM?
The United States has always been a nation of immigrants, but today the country has more than 33 million foreign-born residents, the largest number since the US Census started keeping such statistics in 1850. In 2003, foreign-born residents made up 11.7 percent of the population, the highest percentage since 1910. And over the past 16 years, the newcomers, many of them undocumented, have poured into places in the South and Midwest that have not seen sizeable numbers of new immigrants in generations.
On December 16, 2005, the House of Representatives passed HR 4437, the Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005. The bill was introduced by Congressman F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. (R-WI). The Sensenbrenner bill is an inadequate enforcement-only bill that fails to address comprehensive immigration reform. In particular, it does not include any provision for a guest worker program, an earned legalization program, nor a reduction in the backlogs for family-based immigration. Instead, the bill criminalizes undocumented people for unlawful presence in the United States, and criminalizes people who work or volunteer with faith-based organizations for helping someone in need, who turns out to be undocumented.
Los Angeles, CA: In solidarity with immigration activists around the country, the Muslim Public Affairs Council as well as the Council on American-Islamic Relations - Los Angeles (CAIR-LA), the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California, the LA Latino Muslim Association, the Muslim American Society-Los Angeles, and the Muslim Students Association - West (MSA West) are calling on American Muslims to participate in a day of action on May 1, 2006.
On that day, the Multi-ethnic Immigrant Worker Organizing Network (MIWON) is holding a march near downtown Los Angeles in support of immigration reform and worker’ rights. MPAC is coordinating Muslim American participation in this important event, which affects Americans of all ethnic, racial and religious backgrounds. Similar events will be taking place across the country.
WHAT: International Worker’s Day Immigration March
WHERE: McArthur Park (7th & Alvarado near Downtown LA)
WHEN: Monday, May 1st, 2006 at 4:00 p.m.
CO-SPONSORS: Muslim Public Affairs Council, Council on American-Islamic Relations - Los Angeles (CAIR-LA), Islamic Shura Council of Southern California, L.A. Latino Muslim Association (LALMA), MSA West, Muslim American Society - Los Angeles (MAS-LA), Multi-ethnic Immigrant Worker Organizing Network (MIWON) - http://thistuesday.org/node/127
WHY SHOULD MUSLIMS GET INVOLVED?
Islam’s message is one of social justice, economic fairness, and fair treatment in the workplace. The Qur’an urges the proper treatment and respect of workers. Several Muslim leaders discussed the relevance of the Qur’an to the struggle for dignity in the workplace with union leaders and other religious leaders during the “Islam and Labor: Forging Partnerships Conference,” held November 10, 2001 in Washington, DC. Co-convened by the National Interfaith Committee for Worker Justice and the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC), the conference sought to build relationships between Muslims, interfaith committees and labor communities. As the Prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying, “None of you has faith unless you love for your brother what you love for yourself.”
It is against this backdrop that American Muslim organizations are calling for a comprehensive immigration reform that includes provisions for a pathway to lawful permanent residence for the undocumented currently in the United States, a temporary worker program that matches willing workers with willing employers, and a reduction in the current backlogs in family-based immigration to the United States.
HOW DO WE VIEW IMMIGRATION REFORM?
The United States has always been a nation of immigrants, but today the country has more than 33 million foreign-born residents, the largest number since the US Census started keeping such statistics in 1850. In 2003, foreign-born residents made up 11.7 percent of the population, the highest percentage since 1910. And over the past 16 years, the newcomers, many of them undocumented, have poured into places in the South and Midwest that have not seen sizeable numbers of new immigrants in generations.
On December 16, 2005, the House of Representatives passed HR 4437, the Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005. The bill was introduced by Congressman F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. (R-WI). The Sensenbrenner bill is an inadequate enforcement-only bill that fails to address comprehensive immigration reform. In particular, it does not include any provision for a guest worker program, an earned legalization program, nor a reduction in the backlogs for family-based immigration. Instead, the bill criminalizes undocumented people for unlawful presence in the United States, and criminalizes people who work or volunteer with faith-based organizations for helping someone in need, who turns out to be undocumented.
Posted by: Theresa at April 28, 2006 11:41 AM (tN0oi)
44
As a krout, it's the presumption of ethnic solidarity
Um, what's a Krout? Does it go into soup or salads?
Meanwhile, my friend from Africa (who's hard-working, law-abiding, and loves America) still doesn't have a greencard, despite years of working through the system.
Sandy, doesn't an alien need a green card in order to work? If so, how do you know your friend is hardworking? Don't tell me this friend is working illegally? Then the friend is not quite so law abiding.
Hardworking, law-abiding, non green card holding alien? No such thing.
Um, what's a Krout? Does it go into soup or salads?
Meanwhile, my friend from Africa (who's hard-working, law-abiding, and loves America) still doesn't have a greencard, despite years of working through the system.
Sandy, doesn't an alien need a green card in order to work? If so, how do you know your friend is hardworking? Don't tell me this friend is working illegally? Then the friend is not quite so law abiding.
Hardworking, law-abiding, non green card holding alien? No such thing.
Posted by: at April 28, 2006 11:51 AM (Vsh3q)
45
So a bunch of forgein crinimals are planning to hold out country hostage to get their way we should start by buring mexican flags
Posted by: spurwing plover at April 28, 2006 11:59 AM (A09bm)
46
I bet these are the conversations Romans had just before it fell.
The anti-American groups are blatantly flouting their dislike for the country they are currently living in. The press, Congress and 48% of its citizenry not only sit by but demand they be allowed to demand for things which they neither deserve nor warrant.
The anti-American groups are blatantly flouting their dislike for the country they are currently living in. The press, Congress and 48% of its citizenry not only sit by but demand they be allowed to demand for things which they neither deserve nor warrant.
Posted by: Pixelflash at April 28, 2006 12:00 PM (O+1/6)
47
Sandy, doesn't an alien need a green card in order to work?
No. A green card means you can stay in the country; it's practically US citizenship. There are plenty of other visas which let you work here legally.
No. A green card means you can stay in the country; it's practically US citizenship. There are plenty of other visas which let you work here legally.
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 12:03 PM (Uuy++)
48
"Hardworking, law-abiding, non green card holding alien? No such thing."
There are temporary work permits. My wife had a "practical training" visa before she got her green card that allowed her to work. An actual green card (permanent resident alien) is a good bit harder to get.
There are temporary work permits. My wife had a "practical training" visa before she got her green card that allowed her to work. An actual green card (permanent resident alien) is a good bit harder to get.
Posted by: Achmed at April 28, 2006 12:04 PM (j4t+e)
49
3:01pm - Can we boycott the companies that support [illegals]?
3:08pm - I’d say raid companies that shut down on Monday, every day or so for the next month & see how those employers like it.
4:03pm - Funny how no-one here is concerned about your fellow american criminals.
Funny how Larry's able to type, yet apparently can't read.
3:08pm - I’d say raid companies that shut down on Monday, every day or so for the next month & see how those employers like it.
4:03pm - Funny how no-one here is concerned about your fellow american criminals.
Funny how Larry's able to type, yet apparently can't read.
Posted by: bgates at April 28, 2006 12:06 PM (qa3yT)
50
Also, I knew my friend was hard-working before she had ever set foot on American soil. She's a friend of the family. And yes, her uncertain status here is 100% legal. As I said.
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 12:08 PM (ePQxy)
51
Tyson Foods is closing several meat packing plants to allow their illegals to attend the rallies. Seaboard doing same. They need to be boycotted hard. This is like something out of a badly written hollyweird movie. I hope ya'll got your guns and ammo stockpiled cause they'll be coming for our homes/posessions next. Dhimmitude anyone?
Posted by: Theresa at April 28, 2006 12:10 PM (tN0oi)
52
I think Larry might be schizo. It would explain the swings.
Posted by: Pixelflash at April 28, 2006 12:11 PM (O+1/6)
53
Wonder how many Hispanic citizens are supporting this. All these boycotts can do is worsen relations between Mexicans and the rest of us.
Sometimes I wonder if that's not the plan of guys like ANSWER. Full scale revolt or revolution would fit their plans very nicely, and if they have to use people to get there, hey, the ends justify the means.
Sometimes I wonder if that's not the plan of guys like ANSWER. Full scale revolt or revolution would fit their plans very nicely, and if they have to use people to get there, hey, the ends justify the means.
Posted by: at April 28, 2006 12:15 PM (1Vbso)
54
bgates:
Honest misunderstanding dude. The full first quote is
How can we turn it on the illegals? Can we boycott the companies (ie Tyson Foods) that support this? What can I do to punish Mexico?
I think you can see why I might have misinterpreted this one. He's talking about punishing illegals and Mexico, and boycotting employers. I thought he meant "to punish illegals"
Second one, he mentions "raid", which to me means INS comming for the illegals. If it were for the employers, I would have used the word "bust" or "prosecute".
No one came right out and said it (US employers are part of the problem) specifically.
Honest misunderstanding dude. The full first quote is
How can we turn it on the illegals? Can we boycott the companies (ie Tyson Foods) that support this? What can I do to punish Mexico?
I think you can see why I might have misinterpreted this one. He's talking about punishing illegals and Mexico, and boycotting employers. I thought he meant "to punish illegals"
Second one, he mentions "raid", which to me means INS comming for the illegals. If it were for the employers, I would have used the word "bust" or "prosecute".
No one came right out and said it (US employers are part of the problem) specifically.
Posted by: Larry the U at April 28, 2006 12:22 PM (Lpswv)
Posted by: Cindy at April 28, 2006 12:24 PM (ifa4g)
56
Nah, Pixel. The subtext of my first post is that I have more sympathy for the illegals (trying to escape poverty, likely) than the employers (trying to increase profit margin).
On the other hand, I'm a law abiding person, and I believe in the rule of law, so both (illegals and employers) should be prepared to face the consequences of thier actions.
I just wish the voices would stop.
On the other hand, I'm a law abiding person, and I believe in the rule of law, so both (illegals and employers) should be prepared to face the consequences of thier actions.
I just wish the voices would stop.
Posted by: Larry the U at April 28, 2006 12:27 PM (Lpswv)
57
I've just made up my mind. I've got a birthday coming. I'm going to the mall after work on Monday, I'm going to buy myself a bunch of sweet, useless shit and then I'M GOING TO SEE UNITED 93 at the hooptiplex.
It won't make me feel all better, but it will make me feel appropriately PISSED. And inject a bit of weasel-bux into the economy.
It won't make me feel all better, but it will make me feel appropriately PISSED. And inject a bit of weasel-bux into the economy.
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 28, 2006 12:29 PM (1HKrT)
58
Hey, I understand the illegals, too. I know why they're here, and I'd probably do the same thing.
What I don't understand is why so many liberals support this. I understand why the far left supports illegal immigration; they want to "deconstruct" America. But mainstream liberals, I would think, should be opposed to policies which are clearly creating an American caste system and discriminating against immigrants from Asia and Africa. But then, I'm probably giving them way too much credit...
What I don't understand is why so many liberals support this. I understand why the far left supports illegal immigration; they want to "deconstruct" America. But mainstream liberals, I would think, should be opposed to policies which are clearly creating an American caste system and discriminating against immigrants from Asia and Africa. But then, I'm probably giving them way too much credit...
Posted by: sandy burger at April 28, 2006 12:32 PM (Cpse7)
59
Not that I'm defending my group, just reponding to Sandy: I believe mainstream libs are perhaps just feeling sorry for the downtrodden and want the gov't to help. ( Gov't is here to protect and to serve the people. )
What they don't remember is that for every illegal we have here there are multitudes more back where the illegal came from. If we are going to spend money on this issue, they would be better served by increased foreign aid (with controls to protect against corruption) in the form of education, health and business development (teach a man to fish things) to the home country, than by giving the illegal a job here.
For example, I hear people talking about a Mexico border wall and more security. But won't people just go around in boats? And wouldn't this be a "forever" kind of operational expense patrolling and maintaining the wall. Would it be more cost efective to spend all that money on aid to Mexico, so they can have a thriving economy? All kinds of problems with this solution, I know, but the wall thing seems impractical as well.
What they don't remember is that for every illegal we have here there are multitudes more back where the illegal came from. If we are going to spend money on this issue, they would be better served by increased foreign aid (with controls to protect against corruption) in the form of education, health and business development (teach a man to fish things) to the home country, than by giving the illegal a job here.
For example, I hear people talking about a Mexico border wall and more security. But won't people just go around in boats? And wouldn't this be a "forever" kind of operational expense patrolling and maintaining the wall. Would it be more cost efective to spend all that money on aid to Mexico, so they can have a thriving economy? All kinds of problems with this solution, I know, but the wall thing seems impractical as well.
Posted by: Larry the U at April 28, 2006 01:03 PM (Lpswv)
60
Hey, I understand the illegals, too. I know why they're here, and I'd probably do the same thing.
Yeah, its like me and lesbians, I understand what they see in each other. If I was a woman, lesbo, guaranteed. No hairyassed men for me.
Tob
Yeah, its like me and lesbians, I understand what they see in each other. If I was a woman, lesbo, guaranteed. No hairyassed men for me.
Tob
Posted by: toby928 at April 28, 2006 01:10 PM (PD1tk)
61
Larry, foreign aid rarely works and it's nearly impossible to control corruption. Mexico will do what Mexico wants to do no matter how much cash and advice you give them.
Posted by: at April 28, 2006 01:20 PM (zBLqk)
62
Oops, 6:20 was me.
Posted by: ErikW at April 28, 2006 01:22 PM (zBLqk)
63
As i said, Erik, all kinds of problems with that solution. What's yours?
Posted by: Larry the U at April 28, 2006 01:53 PM (Lpswv)
64
"I believe mainstream libs are perhaps just feeling sorry for the downtrodden and want the gov't to help. ( Gov't is here to protect and to serve the people)"
During the last hoopla & illegal immigration marches in late April, I went over to Daily Kos & Democratic Underground to see what was being commented by the left. There were a surprising amount of complainers about the illegals, mostly about their impact on displacing U.S. workers. So it would seem that there are a few cracks appearing in their usual united front, as far as this particular issue is concerned. Let's hope the concern on their part spreads.
The problem of an unbridled immigration policy is a threat to both parties, it's too bad we can't agree to take harsh measures to stop it NOW, not later.
BTW, Larry the U.
I believe the gov't is here to help & protect it's LEGAL citizens; not out of control interlopers.
During the last hoopla & illegal immigration marches in late April, I went over to Daily Kos & Democratic Underground to see what was being commented by the left. There were a surprising amount of complainers about the illegals, mostly about their impact on displacing U.S. workers. So it would seem that there are a few cracks appearing in their usual united front, as far as this particular issue is concerned. Let's hope the concern on their part spreads.
The problem of an unbridled immigration policy is a threat to both parties, it's too bad we can't agree to take harsh measures to stop it NOW, not later.
BTW, Larry the U.
I believe the gov't is here to help & protect it's LEGAL citizens; not out of control interlopers.
Posted by: Snorkel at April 28, 2006 02:10 PM (c4TtZ)
65
THANOS:
I'm all for you, Babe. Get out there and start building that wall. If them Mexicans weren't here, they wouldn't be buying our chinese shit or doing those jobs (like helping YOU build that wall) we don't want to do anyway. 2000 miles of wall , I'd help you but I got calves to brand and I ain't no good at brick work.
I'm all for you, Babe. Get out there and start building that wall. If them Mexicans weren't here, they wouldn't be buying our chinese shit or doing those jobs (like helping YOU build that wall) we don't want to do anyway. 2000 miles of wall , I'd help you but I got calves to brand and I ain't no good at brick work.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at April 28, 2006 02:37 PM (nQs7j)
66
2000 miles of wall , I'd help you but I got calves to brand and I ain't no good at brick work.
Coolies. What we need are coolies. If they could build the transcontinental railway and dig the Grand Canyon, they can build the wall.
Tob
Coolies. What we need are coolies. If they could build the transcontinental railway and dig the Grand Canyon, they can build the wall.
Tob
Posted by: toby928 at April 28, 2006 05:07 PM (PD1tk)
67
bring in a couple thousand buses and get this process going.
I hear Ray Nagin has a bunch he's not using.
I hear Ray Nagin has a bunch he's not using.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 28, 2006 06:48 PM (XbJeu)
68
Will the Coolies have to have a Green Card, Fair wage, health care, and afforadable housing?
Posted by: Mike Meyer at April 28, 2006 06:54 PM (hU9Yi)
69
What if we said illegals offended Muslims?
Posted by: Iblis at April 28, 2006 06:55 PM (ZZevL)
70
wouldn't this be a "forever" kind of operational expense patrolling and maintaining the wall
Customs and border patrols are already a "forever" kind of thing...along with maintaining a standing army, delivering the mail, plowing roads, etc.
If we cave to the mexicans, then everyone who is in is going to be complaining. Right now, there's something like 100,000+ illegal alien Canadians living in south Florida. I personally know several of them.
Customs and border patrols are already a "forever" kind of thing...along with maintaining a standing army, delivering the mail, plowing roads, etc.
If we cave to the mexicans, then everyone who is in is going to be complaining. Right now, there's something like 100,000+ illegal alien Canadians living in south Florida. I personally know several of them.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 28, 2006 07:20 PM (XbJeu)
71
Congress discussed this and created adequate legislation in 1986, Brasaros laws. Katrina shows us how the wall will go. FELLOW TAXPAYERS, lets be frank, Republicrats on both sides of the aisle really have no solution. Yet they need and love the money Big Business can provide. Big Business needs and loves your money, as yours is the real wealth. Big Business uses cheap labor to collect your money. And so Congress takes your money, goes in the front door and on out the back door and leaves you and me on the front porch waiting. The answer is that there is no answer. 1986 is long gone, and you and I are a day late and a dollar short. We did not stop the borrowing of 2 billion per day, plus interest, so now we need all the cheap labor. We re-elected the same greedy officials term after term with no accountability. We saw them bought off by Big Business and nodded yes. We borrowed heavily so we could have the illusion of strong ecconomy without high wages, without hard labor. The Piper wants his due. Even the President went out the back door with our money. He needs corporate cash too.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at April 28, 2006 09:48 PM (tqraV)
72
Look to the fifties, sixties and seventies in Europe. The unions crippled Europe with their demands. This is the same. It is like watching a really bad movie. They are even using the same type of rhetoric.
Then, as now, most of those in government(those that have the power to do anything) agree with most of the demands.
The voice of the American people and the law of the land as it stands will not be upheld.
Then, as now, most of those in government(those that have the power to do anything) agree with most of the demands.
The voice of the American people and the law of the land as it stands will not be upheld.
Posted by: davod at April 28, 2006 10:54 PM (AM62A)
73
I recall hearing that during the last election cycle, none of the 22 Spanish speaking radio stations in Californioa would air conservative messages.
And you wonder why Spanish speakers vote for dems. It is the only message they get.
Talk about banana republic politics.
And you wonder why Spanish speakers vote for dems. It is the only message they get.
Talk about banana republic politics.
Posted by: davod at April 28, 2006 10:58 PM (AM62A)
74
Two thoughts.
First, Larry, your thoughts about foreign show you to be a true-blue bleeding heart - and I mean that as a compliment. We need heart as well as head in this discussion.
However, consider rationally what you're proposing: foreign aid to a nation that has one of the largest proven reserves of petroleum in the world. There is no reason on God's green earth why Mexico should be poor - and yet it is. And the reason Mexico is poor is the reason why foreign aid would be money thrown down the crapper: because the elites who run the place are remorselessly corrupt. They seem themselves as modern-day caudillos, and the rest of the population as rabble who exist only to serve. Mexico's various revolutions have served only to shuffle the deck a bit, but have not changed the underlying problem.
Your heart is in the right place, but I'm afraid that your foreign aid would not alleviate the problem in the slightest. I've come to the conclusion that a wall, as wasteful and cruel as it is, is the only step that will improve our security, enforce respect for the rule of law, and force Mexico to deal with the problems of their own society. That, and completely reforming the INS.
Second, here in Chicago, Congressman Danny Davis is airing advertisements on the radio, encouraging people to come to a demonstration, to urge Bush to "do something" for Darfur. The demonstration will be on May 1. Apparently this too is part of a nationwide campaign - Oprah has taken it up.
I find it extremely interesting that the people most harmed by illegal immigration - poor blacks - are largely ignored by news articles on the subject. In my neighborhood, there's a lot of residential construction going on; I see crews that speak Slavic languages and crews that speak Spanish; but I don't see any crews of blacks doing that well-paying labor. You can't tell me that there are no blacks who want to do that work: but illegals are so much cheaper, and easier to handle.
If the Republicans can come up with an immigration plan that will secure the borders, and force employers to look among our own poor for labor instead of importing illegals on the cheap, they could break down the wall around the Democrats' plantation.
This could be a terrific opportunity, if only it's handled right. I know, I know - dream on ...
First, Larry, your thoughts about foreign show you to be a true-blue bleeding heart - and I mean that as a compliment. We need heart as well as head in this discussion.
However, consider rationally what you're proposing: foreign aid to a nation that has one of the largest proven reserves of petroleum in the world. There is no reason on God's green earth why Mexico should be poor - and yet it is. And the reason Mexico is poor is the reason why foreign aid would be money thrown down the crapper: because the elites who run the place are remorselessly corrupt. They seem themselves as modern-day caudillos, and the rest of the population as rabble who exist only to serve. Mexico's various revolutions have served only to shuffle the deck a bit, but have not changed the underlying problem.
Your heart is in the right place, but I'm afraid that your foreign aid would not alleviate the problem in the slightest. I've come to the conclusion that a wall, as wasteful and cruel as it is, is the only step that will improve our security, enforce respect for the rule of law, and force Mexico to deal with the problems of their own society. That, and completely reforming the INS.
Second, here in Chicago, Congressman Danny Davis is airing advertisements on the radio, encouraging people to come to a demonstration, to urge Bush to "do something" for Darfur. The demonstration will be on May 1. Apparently this too is part of a nationwide campaign - Oprah has taken it up.
I find it extremely interesting that the people most harmed by illegal immigration - poor blacks - are largely ignored by news articles on the subject. In my neighborhood, there's a lot of residential construction going on; I see crews that speak Slavic languages and crews that speak Spanish; but I don't see any crews of blacks doing that well-paying labor. You can't tell me that there are no blacks who want to do that work: but illegals are so much cheaper, and easier to handle.
If the Republicans can come up with an immigration plan that will secure the borders, and force employers to look among our own poor for labor instead of importing illegals on the cheap, they could break down the wall around the Democrats' plantation.
This could be a terrific opportunity, if only it's handled right. I know, I know - dream on ...
Posted by: Brown Line at April 29, 2006 03:14 AM (IOcD7)
75
As a krout, it's the presumption of ethnic solidarity that creeps me out here.
Agreed. I'm a natural born citizen to green card-holding Kraut parents. I was raised to be an American, no hyphens needed.
They seem to expect all of the *Latinos* in the country to strike, not just one's with illegals in their immediate family or something. I'd be very interested to see a breakdown on who it is that really participates in these protests and stuff. How many of them are illegals, how many are extremely left-wing third generation Mexican-Americans, etc.
I'm in Tampa, FL right now, and my wife and I just had a bunch of work done on the house. If we were lucky we got one person on the landscaping, roofing and flooring crews who spoke English. We're moving to San Antonio next month - I wonder if I can get any work done on our house there if I can't speak Spanish.
How this strike is supposed to raise support for illegals I don't know.
Agreed. I'm a natural born citizen to green card-holding Kraut parents. I was raised to be an American, no hyphens needed.
They seem to expect all of the *Latinos* in the country to strike, not just one's with illegals in their immediate family or something. I'd be very interested to see a breakdown on who it is that really participates in these protests and stuff. How many of them are illegals, how many are extremely left-wing third generation Mexican-Americans, etc.
I'm in Tampa, FL right now, and my wife and I just had a bunch of work done on the house. If we were lucky we got one person on the landscaping, roofing and flooring crews who spoke English. We're moving to San Antonio next month - I wonder if I can get any work done on our house there if I can't speak Spanish.
How this strike is supposed to raise support for illegals I don't know.
Posted by: Sven at April 29, 2006 03:44 AM (6m5vg)
76
May Day (May 1st): It's synonymous with Socialist and Communist governments celebrating "worker solidarity" thoughout the world, along with the obligatory parades replete with missiles. Now, it is the day for Illegal Aliens Celebration.
Two days in one month seems a bit excessive to me, we already have Cinco de Mayo.
Remember one other thing May Day is known for: as an internationally recognized distress call.
JM
Two days in one month seems a bit excessive to me, we already have Cinco de Mayo.
Remember one other thing May Day is known for: as an internationally recognized distress call.
JM
Posted by: at April 29, 2006 05:57 AM (5WEQS)
77
That was me.
Posted by: Joe Mama at April 29, 2006 06:00 AM (5WEQS)
78
Well... you should see the article at this site: www.saneworks.us.
Posted by: Dan at April 29, 2006 07:02 AM (QzklD)
79
Extortion by any other name is the same thing. These illegals are extorting Congress, the President and the American people for something they do not deseve. May 1 is extortion day.
Posted by: Robert at April 29, 2006 12:16 PM (8cVew)
80
Doesn't the whole "they do jobs Americans won't do, if we enforce the law, then the prices will go up" thing sound a lot like "we need the slaves they keep costs down and nobody else will do this work" riff? Or is it just me?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 29, 2006 02:11 PM (1Vbso)
81
Spray these fu
Posted by: Whitey at April 29, 2006 04:50 PM (pSa64)
82
kers with 7.62 until the barrels melt I tell ya.
Posted by: Whitey at April 29, 2006 04:52 PM (pSa64)
83
No it's not JUST you. This IS exactly what Congress, the President, and Corporate AMERICA are telling all of us. It's untrue, of course, as AMERICANS are a hard working people. As long as cheap labor is available and there is no penalty to use it, the situation will continue as is. Any amnesty program will allow 450,000 applicants per year at best, 12 million are already here, 11,550,000 are NOT going home just to satisfy INS. Big Business, Congress, the Prez, et.al. are not going to run more than a token few home. There is no way to imagine what kind of MONEY PIT boondoggle a 2000 mile wall would turn into with this Administration, and as long as employment is available they WILL find a way back over here.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at April 29, 2006 04:55 PM (opSUI)
84
I was initially fired up to see the businesses responsible for (knowingly) hiring the illegals get what should be coming to them. I've been seeing them blamed all over the news reports and even on conservative web sites. So it must be true that they're the major source of the problem right?
Then this little voice in the back of my mind started talking about how liberals seem to want to blame "big business" for all the world's problems. ...and how they seem to say whatever they think will support their objectives as opposed to the truth. And I started to wonder... is it really the businesses, or has our government system and the liberal judge rewriting of our privacy laws etc. created a situation where it's too easy for illegals to get by on false pretenses and paperwork and too hard for companies to investigate and challenge those they suspect of being illegal? Based on some of the comments above and other similar things I've seen over time, I'm suspecting that businesses may not be as big a part of the problem as all the stupid stuff our government has already done to make this situation possible.
The businesses that are guilty deserve to get their butts kicked. But let's make sure we're blaming the right people (all of them)
Then this little voice in the back of my mind started talking about how liberals seem to want to blame "big business" for all the world's problems. ...and how they seem to say whatever they think will support their objectives as opposed to the truth. And I started to wonder... is it really the businesses, or has our government system and the liberal judge rewriting of our privacy laws etc. created a situation where it's too easy for illegals to get by on false pretenses and paperwork and too hard for companies to investigate and challenge those they suspect of being illegal? Based on some of the comments above and other similar things I've seen over time, I'm suspecting that businesses may not be as big a part of the problem as all the stupid stuff our government has already done to make this situation possible.
The businesses that are guilty deserve to get their butts kicked. But let's make sure we're blaming the right people (all of them)
Posted by: Chuck at April 29, 2006 05:32 PM (STdI6)
85
My green-card renewal hearing is scheduled for Cinco de Mayo. Should I laugh, or cry?
Posted by: Legal alien at April 29, 2006 06:33 PM (5WcWV)
86
The problem exists not between Big Business and the illegal on the factory floor, The problem in the payoff to Congress and the Administration. This precludes the situation for Big Busines to have no need to look to closely or, according to some, to have the resorces or ability to determine a legal worker or illegal worker. After all if one cannot determine an illegal then everyone is legal by definition. To work, someone crosses the border illegally at great cost and dangerous effort. Less danger, cost, and effort brings an illegal ID. A year of faithful service on the factory floor pays for everything and lends an air of legality and establishes a position in the local community. This is where most idenity theft ends up. 4 million bank accounts are not robbed, 4 million illegals buy ID and go to work. Since everything appears legal, no need to look further on the part of Big Business, as the ball is in the Administrations court at that point. That's when the payoff, pays off.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at April 29, 2006 07:42 PM (opSUI)
87
It's going to take a lot of babies to set this situation right. Get busy fucking, and after you've washed up, get busy reclaiming your annual $2,500,000,000,000 budget from the federal government, so you can feed and clothe your newborns.
Really, your complaints about the injustice of your being supplanted in your own land are just priceless nonsense. If you get busy now, in 18 years and 9 months, you'll have an army with which to gain redress for your grievances. But if you prefer, just keep using condoms and funding Social Security until we're all dead.
Really, your complaints about the injustice of your being supplanted in your own land are just priceless nonsense. If you get busy now, in 18 years and 9 months, you'll have an army with which to gain redress for your grievances. But if you prefer, just keep using condoms and funding Social Security until we're all dead.
Posted by: Arafel at April 29, 2006 09:58 PM (m5x6c)
88
isn't it great, after such a long and boring suppression of hate, we can finally kick off our boots and tell it like it is: those fucking mexicans. ahhh, little brothers, feels good, feels good. I mean, it's as plain as your porcelein white asses the problem with the world isn't exploitation of working folk, destruction of 'rights,' plundering of the environment, obstruction of adequate healthcare, the murder of people unfortunate to live on top of our oil, no, no, it's the mexicans. goddamned mexicans.
ahhh.
ahhh.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 06:01 AM (7nrVi)
89
truth is, your collective false consciousness, this pervasive and indestructible ignorance you all seem to share about the actual causes of america's problems, will only justify the the continuation of your misery, your sense of loss. it's the oldest game in the world played by elites: keep the dumb little people at each others' throats. divide & conquer. works as well at home as it does in iraq.
tools.
tools.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 06:07 AM (7nrVi)
Posted by: Bart at April 30, 2006 06:28 AM (Qpx7E)
91
Porcelain-white ass? And I thought it was just the color of the toilet. Thanks for setting me straight, Erg. I'll return to my tooling now.
tmi3rd
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 06:32 AM (1oOYY)
92
Lord von Hackysack is extra angry on this fine Sunday.
Son, ergie, I told you to that you need to forgive your parents for the circumcision.
Rejoice, my brother, for it is the Lord's day. Be merry!
Son, ergie, I told you to that you need to forgive your parents for the circumcision.
Rejoice, my brother, for it is the Lord's day. Be merry!
Posted by: Timmy in the well at April 30, 2006 06:36 AM (Qpx7E)
93
the republicans and democrats are sure to exploit the anti-immigrant issue by deepening where they can the distraction of race conflict. elites need to do this to legitimate elite power, even at the expense of considerable social unrest. but, it's worked before, most notably the l.a. riots, and the nationwide riots of 67-68. the people, rather than confront elite power, confronted each other in the streets, to the great detriment of the people, but to the great benefit of elites.
same ol, same ol.
same ol, same ol.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 06:43 AM (7nrVi)
Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2006 06:45 AM (leJWb)
Posted by: Bart at April 30, 2006 06:46 AM (Qpx7E)
96
but, I'll give you this, lil bros, the overt racism here at aos is refreshingly transparent.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 06:46 AM (7nrVi)
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 06:48 AM (7nrVi)
98
Clearly, depression over the Jets' draft picks has set in with our faithful companions on the Left... don't worry, guys, there's always next year. In the meantime, you can explore the conspiracy as to why the Giants have been better than the Jets in recent memory.
tmi3rd
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 06:49 AM (1oOYY)
99
Erg, son, you believe that you are so enlightened because of your obvious hatred for religion and authority.
But you don't realize that you are a dogmatic preacher of your own religion.
Open your eyes and look how silly you are preaching your brand of "truth."
My son, I love you.
Let it go.
Let all the hatred inside of you go.
But you don't realize that you are a dogmatic preacher of your own religion.
Open your eyes and look how silly you are preaching your brand of "truth."
My son, I love you.
Let it go.
Let all the hatred inside of you go.
Posted by: Father Timmy at April 30, 2006 06:58 AM (Qpx7E)
100
Timmy, dude can't master the shift key. Don't be throwing the metaphysics at him.
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 30, 2006 07:03 AM (1HKrT)
Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2006 07:05 AM (leJWb)
Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2006 07:06 AM (leJWb)
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 07:07 AM (1oOYY)
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 30, 2006 07:11 AM (1HKrT)
105
Son, no one has the monopoly on Truth.
You are free to judge for yourself which religion is the best. I can't make that decision for you. Follow your heart.
If your heart is filled with poison, you will be led to a rotten religion. If your heart is free of self-hate and resentment of your fellow man, you religion will be one of perpetual hatred.
You are free to judge for yourself which religion is the best. I can't make that decision for you. Follow your heart.
If your heart is filled with poison, you will be led to a rotten religion. If your heart is free of self-hate and resentment of your fellow man, you religion will be one of perpetual hatred.
Posted by: Father Timmy at April 30, 2006 07:16 AM (Qpx7E)
106
timmy
I don't know whether to pity or laugh at your self-parody. as the worldview of aos et al. unravels into absurdity and ignorance, it's not surprising someone here claims to have a pure heart inside a thread whose chorus is obviously and stupidly racist.
I don't know whether to pity or laugh at your self-parody. as the worldview of aos et al. unravels into absurdity and ignorance, it's not surprising someone here claims to have a pure heart inside a thread whose chorus is obviously and stupidly racist.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:23 AM (7nrVi)
107
Well, actually, somebody does have a monopoly on truth, we just don't know who. And apparently we have to croak to find out.
Pretty much dampens my enthusiasm.
Pretty much dampens my enthusiasm.
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 30, 2006 07:23 AM (1HKrT)
108
Man, I keep learning more and more about myself! I never knew I was all these things! Thanks, Erg!
"Now we know! And knowing is half the battle!" -GI Joe cartoons
tmi3rd
"Now we know! And knowing is half the battle!" -GI Joe cartoons
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 07:26 AM (1oOYY)
109
bush, yesterday:
There will be more tough fighting ahead in Iraq and more days of sacrifice and struggle. Yet the enemies of freedom have suffered a real blow in recent days, and we have taken great strides on the march to victory.
now, that's as far away from truth as you'll ever go.
but, it's the mexicans' fault.
There will be more tough fighting ahead in Iraq and more days of sacrifice and struggle. Yet the enemies of freedom have suffered a real blow in recent days, and we have taken great strides on the march to victory.
now, that's as far away from truth as you'll ever go.
but, it's the mexicans' fault.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:26 AM (7nrVi)
110
The first thing Mike and ergie need to do is start forgiving. Forgive all those who have trespassed against you. Rid yourselves of the old grudges. And most importantly, forgive yourselves.
All that hate has been a heavy burden on your heart. Let it go. Move on with your lives.
Erg may or may not care about Mexicans. I don't know. But I do know that he is using Mexicans to show how much he hates other people -- conservatives, Republicans, "elites," etc.
Son, if you really care about the brown-skinned people, as you call them, then what are doing to help them?
What have you ever done to help the people that you say you care about?
Posting comments on a blog and putting a bumper sticker on your car doesn't help anybody, ergie. Well, I guess it hepls you feel a little bit better about yourself. I imagine it shifts the self-hatred to hatred of others.
But that's only a temporary fix, and you know it, too. Why do you want to continue to repeat this vicious, destructive cylcle?
All that hate has been a heavy burden on your heart. Let it go. Move on with your lives.
Erg may or may not care about Mexicans. I don't know. But I do know that he is using Mexicans to show how much he hates other people -- conservatives, Republicans, "elites," etc.
Son, if you really care about the brown-skinned people, as you call them, then what are doing to help them?
What have you ever done to help the people that you say you care about?
Posting comments on a blog and putting a bumper sticker on your car doesn't help anybody, ergie. Well, I guess it hepls you feel a little bit better about yourself. I imagine it shifts the self-hatred to hatred of others.
But that's only a temporary fix, and you know it, too. Why do you want to continue to repeat this vicious, destructive cylcle?
Posted by: Father at April 30, 2006 07:28 AM (Fy0Y9)
Posted by: son at April 30, 2006 07:30 AM (7nrVi)
112
(yellow flag flies)
Illegal procedure- threadjacking- on ergastularius... five yards and loss of down.
tmi3rd
Illegal procedure- threadjacking- on ergastularius... five yards and loss of down.
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 07:41 AM (1oOYY)
113
it would be nice to know if some of the people w/ brains here (jack straw, lauraw, geoff, etc.) would be willing to condemn this piece of shit thread, and condemn ace's race-baiting?
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:44 AM (7nrVi)
114
someone here claims to have a pure heart
You have heard no such claim from me, my son.
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23
And I continue to sin. We all do.
But I ask for forgiveness and give my burden of sin to my Lord. The Lord knows if whether or not I am sincere in my remorse for my sin. He knows my heart. I can't hide anything from Him.
You have heard no such claim from me, my son.
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23
And I continue to sin. We all do.
But I ask for forgiveness and give my burden of sin to my Lord. The Lord knows if whether or not I am sincere in my remorse for my sin. He knows my heart. I can't hide anything from Him.
Posted by: Father Timmy at April 30, 2006 07:44 AM (Fy0Y9)
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:47 AM (7nrVi)
116
Just because you and George think you have a direct pipeline to God...doesn't mean all Americans have to go along for the ride.
And, speaking of "trespassing"...what do you think the Iraqis would have to say about that?
The ones we haven't killed yet.
And, speaking of "trespassing"...what do you think the Iraqis would have to say about that?
The ones we haven't killed yet.
Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2006 07:47 AM (leJWb)
117
Are you so righteous, ergie, that you can so freely accuse others of sin?
You keep insisting on accusing several people of racism. Where is the evidence of racism?
Is it racist to insist on border security?
Is it racist to insist all people follow the same rule of law?
How do you justify your accusations?
You keep insisting on accusing several people of racism. Where is the evidence of racism?
Is it racist to insist on border security?
Is it racist to insist all people follow the same rule of law?
How do you justify your accusations?
Posted by: Father Timmy at April 30, 2006 07:48 AM (Fy0Y9)
118
a dump. right on the pages of romans. no better target for my turds than the charlatan paul. no better.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:49 AM (7nrVi)
119
Father-Pompous,
Who are you to be telling others what they should or should not believe?
Stick your religious bullshit up your self rithious ass.
Who are you to be telling others what they should or should not believe?
Stick your religious bullshit up your self rithious ass.
Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2006 07:55 AM (leJWb)
120
father
yes, there are problems w/ immigration. the chief of these is global capitalism (downward pressure on global wages is, duh, good for capital). anmother problem: undocumented workers don't join unions and this hurts worker solidarity.
the rightwing harvard academic borjas has a good collection of studies ksghome.harvard.edu/~GBorjas/publications_for_download.html
yes, there are problems w/ immigration. the chief of these is global capitalism (downward pressure on global wages is, duh, good for capital). anmother problem: undocumented workers don't join unions and this hurts worker solidarity.
the rightwing harvard academic borjas has a good collection of studies ksghome.harvard.edu/~GBorjas/publications_for_download.html
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:56 AM (7nrVi)
121
plenty of justifications there father. but none there for "mowing em down" and the heap of vile horseshit on this thread.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 07:59 AM (7nrVi)
122
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I give you Moonbat Hatred Exhibit A... Father Tim, you're a better man than I for engaging these two. That said, I do appreciate your efforts.
"All that hate's gonna burn you up, boy." -Powers Boothe, Red Dawn
tmi3rd
"All that hate's gonna burn you up, boy." -Powers Boothe, Red Dawn
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 08:03 AM (1oOYY)
123
tmi3rd
you are like the man trying to enjoy a good lynching, but complains about the little boy who is standing on the good book to get a better view. it just aint right.
you are like the man trying to enjoy a good lynching, but complains about the little boy who is standing on the good book to get a better view. it just aint right.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 08:12 AM (7nrVi)
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 08:15 AM (1oOYY)
125
read this thread, every fucking post, and tell me this thread isn't 'hateful.'
and you call me hateful for pointing this out.
ironic, huh?
and you call me hateful for pointing this out.
ironic, huh?
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 08:19 AM (7nrVi)
126
I hate to give the game away, ergastularius, but you do realize the angrier you get, the more we assume something, somewhere is going our way? We may not know what, but we see your panties in a bunch and we just know something is going right.
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 30, 2006 08:30 AM (1HKrT)
127
so, which one is it? "Hateful" or "racist"? 'Cause you see, there is a slight difference -- set up a thread about how much the Jets suck, say, and you'd see lots 'n' lots of hate... but I don't really see how that's a bad thing. "Racism," on the other hand, is a different story.
And that's where you lose me, Erg. The complaint is with *illegal aliens.* As in, you know, systematic and comprehensive violators of the first American law they have an opportunity to break. Try this thought experiment: what if all the illegals in question were, say, Norwegians? Would this thread still be "racist"? How about "hateful"?
And that's where you lose me, Erg. The complaint is with *illegal aliens.* As in, you know, systematic and comprehensive violators of the first American law they have an opportunity to break. Try this thought experiment: what if all the illegals in question were, say, Norwegians? Would this thread still be "racist"? How about "hateful"?
Posted by: fredo corleonoe at April 30, 2006 08:39 AM (lvyjP)
128
Okay, done... rational people can disagree on how the situation should be dealt with.
I call you hateful for the following:
"isn't it great, after such a long and boring suppression of hate, we can finally kick off our boots and tell it like it is: those fucking mexicans. ahhh, little brothers, feels good, feels good. I mean, it's as plain as your porcelein white asses the problem with the world isn't exploitation of working folk, destruction of 'rights,' plundering of the environment, obstruction of adequate healthcare, the murder of people unfortunate to live on top of our oil, no, no, it's the mexicans. goddamned mexicans... truth is, your collective false consciousness, this pervasive and indestructible ignorance you all seem to share about the actual causes of america's problems, will only justify the the continuation of your misery, your sense of loss. it's the oldest game in the world played by elites: keep the dumb little people at each others' throats. divide & conquer."
Continuing...
"father
I'm shitting on your bible right now."
Erg, again, rational people can disagree. I'm not going to defend anyone calling for "mowing them down" and what not... but you parade in and spout the same usual "I hate all that disagree with me" talking points... you have a rather warped vision if you believe you're not a hateful man/woman/hermaphrodite.
So please- spare us the self-righteous garbage. If you really want to debate the topic... what am I even wasting my time with you for?
You haven't wanted to have an honest exchange of differing ideas since you got here, and the best you can do is attack a man who offers you the idea that hating others is bad.
You are, regrettably, the very example of hateful leftism that must destroy anything that differs with its worldview.
Fire away, pal- you'll only prove my point more.
tmi3rd
I call you hateful for the following:
"isn't it great, after such a long and boring suppression of hate, we can finally kick off our boots and tell it like it is: those fucking mexicans. ahhh, little brothers, feels good, feels good. I mean, it's as plain as your porcelein white asses the problem with the world isn't exploitation of working folk, destruction of 'rights,' plundering of the environment, obstruction of adequate healthcare, the murder of people unfortunate to live on top of our oil, no, no, it's the mexicans. goddamned mexicans... truth is, your collective false consciousness, this pervasive and indestructible ignorance you all seem to share about the actual causes of america's problems, will only justify the the continuation of your misery, your sense of loss. it's the oldest game in the world played by elites: keep the dumb little people at each others' throats. divide & conquer."
Continuing...
"father
I'm shitting on your bible right now."
Erg, again, rational people can disagree. I'm not going to defend anyone calling for "mowing them down" and what not... but you parade in and spout the same usual "I hate all that disagree with me" talking points... you have a rather warped vision if you believe you're not a hateful man/woman/hermaphrodite.
So please- spare us the self-righteous garbage. If you really want to debate the topic... what am I even wasting my time with you for?
You haven't wanted to have an honest exchange of differing ideas since you got here, and the best you can do is attack a man who offers you the idea that hating others is bad.
You are, regrettably, the very example of hateful leftism that must destroy anything that differs with its worldview.
Fire away, pal- you'll only prove my point more.
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 08:39 AM (1oOYY)
129
Oh, I don't know, tmi3rd. I can't work out if this one is crazy or stupid. The distinction is important. Crazy can be interesting.
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 30, 2006 08:46 AM (1HKrT)
130
Erg,
Like I said before. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME with these yahoos. They're like a pack of fucking right wing dingos who, whenever one of them is confronted, band together to tear away at the offender.
They think they're the ONLY people on the planet who know ANYTHING about ANYTHING...and if you disagree...well, you're nothing more than some "liberal" or "moonbat" or whatever term they can throw out.
And remember...they ALL voted for G.W., our Leaker In Chief.
Like I said before. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME with these yahoos. They're like a pack of fucking right wing dingos who, whenever one of them is confronted, band together to tear away at the offender.
They think they're the ONLY people on the planet who know ANYTHING about ANYTHING...and if you disagree...well, you're nothing more than some "liberal" or "moonbat" or whatever term they can throw out.
And remember...they ALL voted for G.W., our Leaker In Chief.
Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2006 09:04 AM (leJWb)
131
Had to step away for breaking news, sorry...
Weasel, you're absolutely right... I'm really just trying to get to the bottom of whether or not Erg is that angry at religion (hence crazy) or whether or not Erg is just trying to stir the pot (to me, stupid).
I must have pushed Mike's buttons with that last one, though... never seen him punt like that before. In any event, Mike, thanks for underscoring my point even more. Let's see here... "yahoos"... "dingos"... "They think they're the ONLY people on the planet who know ANYTHING about ANYTHING...and if you disagree...well, you're nothing more than some "liberal" or "moonbat" or whatever term they can throw out."
Hm... I could have sworn I mentioned that rational people can disagree... well, anyway, it's been stimulating, kids. I look forward to your next original screed... if you can come up with something better than "racist sexist bigot homophobe oil-driven redneck cracker" or whatever you've got.
Kisses,
tmi3rd
Weasel, you're absolutely right... I'm really just trying to get to the bottom of whether or not Erg is that angry at religion (hence crazy) or whether or not Erg is just trying to stir the pot (to me, stupid).
I must have pushed Mike's buttons with that last one, though... never seen him punt like that before. In any event, Mike, thanks for underscoring my point even more. Let's see here... "yahoos"... "dingos"... "They think they're the ONLY people on the planet who know ANYTHING about ANYTHING...and if you disagree...well, you're nothing more than some "liberal" or "moonbat" or whatever term they can throw out."
Hm... I could have sworn I mentioned that rational people can disagree... well, anyway, it's been stimulating, kids. I look forward to your next original screed... if you can come up with something better than "racist sexist bigot homophobe oil-driven redneck cracker" or whatever you've got.
Kisses,
tmi3rd
Posted by: tmi3rd at April 30, 2006 10:34 AM (0I7rf)
132
There's a lot of hate on the left, a lot of fear, rage, and seething hate. Tolerant hate, naturally.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 30, 2006 03:36 PM (1Vbso)
133
Looks like little Mikey has a crush on Erg. How sweet.
I must caution you, Mike, that Erg will require a written list of your top 5 favorite movies and books before consenting to the dick sucking you're begging to give him.
I must caution you, Mike, that Erg will require a written list of your top 5 favorite movies and books before consenting to the dick sucking you're begging to give him.
Posted by: at April 30, 2006 04:14 PM (rZ5uY)
134
12 million illegal aliens in the US and I can't even get a toursit visa for my legally married Chinese wife. She was denied because she didn't have enough "ties" to China and the fear is that she would not return to China. As if being married to her US hasband who works in China, having her entire family located in China, owning property in China and the fact that she knows no one in the US and has only a limited mastery of English was not enough reason to belive she would not return. (Not to mention the fact that we were only planning a two week visit together.)
Posted by: Brian in China at April 30, 2006 06:45 PM (jUmB/)
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