March 31, 2005
The Right Is Furiously Debating the Terri Debacle... And What's Wrong With That?
— Ace Alarming News notes, mostly correctly, that lately it seems it's only the right debating much of anything at all.
— Ace Alarming News notes, mostly correctly, that lately it seems it's only the right debating much of anything at all.
There are strong disagreements between libertarians and actual conservatives, traditionalists and so-called South Park Republicans.
We hash these disagreements out. We more often than not remain in disagreement, as is usually the case in any disagreement.
It's not necessarily unhealthy.
In fact, it's rather the whole point of democracy.
A Not-So-Rosy-Perspective Update: Goodness me! What a shock! The New York Times publishes a major Republican in an op-ed... slamming the Republican Party and the Christian right!
Gee, that doesn't ever happen eight days a week.
Sarcasm aside, however, John Danforth is a fairly solid conservative, and when he hits the panic button on Religious Right influence in the GOP, that may be a sign that the GOP's social conservative base may be overreaching -- with possibly disasterous results for the next cycles of elections.
Even if it's not so dire, this piece will be quoted ad nauseam by the liberal media to convince the remaining moderates in the country that the GOP is just plain scary.
Thanks to KCTrio for the head's up.
Posted by: Ace at
09:57 AM
| Comments (21)
Post contains 218 words, total size 2 kb.
1
My biggest let down was this column written by the Rev. John C. Danforth, 18 year US Senator from Missouri, progeny of the Purina dog-chow family (I almost certain), short-term Ambassador to the UN and Episcopal priest; appeared in yesterday's NYTimes (subscription required).
Having grown up in St. Louis for part of my childhood, I have fond memories of this gentleman. But, he does portend the rosary-wielding, titanium-Bible-thumping mob's takeover of the GOP that he lived in for so many years, and clearly doesn't like it.
This adds fuel to the fire, I believe, because this man has plenty of credibility. He's a priest, a former US Senator, and is staunchly conservative.
So, when a guy like this weighs in on the pissing match, one must take this seriously.
In the abstract, of course there's nothing wrong with disagreement within the party; that's democracy. A frightening scenario is a lockstep GOP. But this article sort of scared me, because of who wrote it and what he says.
The media is having a field day over this. And I don't agree at all with Danforth. But you can't nail the messenger here as swiftly as you might want to nail, say, John McCain.
Having grown up in St. Louis for part of my childhood, I have fond memories of this gentleman. But, he does portend the rosary-wielding, titanium-Bible-thumping mob's takeover of the GOP that he lived in for so many years, and clearly doesn't like it.
This adds fuel to the fire, I believe, because this man has plenty of credibility. He's a priest, a former US Senator, and is staunchly conservative.
So, when a guy like this weighs in on the pissing match, one must take this seriously.
In the abstract, of course there's nothing wrong with disagreement within the party; that's democracy. A frightening scenario is a lockstep GOP. But this article sort of scared me, because of who wrote it and what he says.
The media is having a field day over this. And I don't agree at all with Danforth. But you can't nail the messenger here as swiftly as you might want to nail, say, John McCain.
Posted by: KCTrio at March 31, 2005 10:22 AM (hT8GB)
Posted by: Sharp as a Marble at March 31, 2005 10:22 AM (VxPRK)
3
The Left has been bankrupt of ideas since the early 20th century and that has not changed. And though he did not ceate the Left, Marx added the peculiar Marxian way of viewing everything in the world through the prism of class struggle. This peculiar view of the world would later be enlarged to include racism, sexism, "homophobia," ageism, "intolerance," and other assorted home-made complaints.
The Right is the only place where ideas are supposed to be freely debated without having anyone say something is too "offending" to be discussed, a cheap way to attack and try to silence the speaker without having to answer and argue the merits.
VIVA LA DEBATE!
The Right is the only place where ideas are supposed to be freely debated without having anyone say something is too "offending" to be discussed, a cheap way to attack and try to silence the speaker without having to answer and argue the merits.
VIVA LA DEBATE!
Posted by: 72VIRGINS at March 31, 2005 10:33 AM (dhRpo)
4
Danforth is a member of the Purina-Danforth family, and is also a lawyer.
Just trying to get the the stuff straight.
Just trying to get the the stuff straight.
Posted by: KCTrio at March 31, 2005 10:40 AM (hT8GB)
5
Blah blah blah, Ace.
Let's be honest, no one gives a shit about "debate." What we crave is a good flame war. Your opening salvo upon Dave was a good start, but it deserves its own post right up at the top of the page.
The masses are howling for violence to be visited upon the weak and the traffic-less. Appease them, lest the city be laid to waste.
Release the lions, Ace! Release them and satisfy our bloodlust!!!!!!!!!
Let's be honest, no one gives a shit about "debate." What we crave is a good flame war. Your opening salvo upon Dave was a good start, but it deserves its own post right up at the top of the page.
The masses are howling for violence to be visited upon the weak and the traffic-less. Appease them, lest the city be laid to waste.
Release the lions, Ace! Release them and satisfy our bloodlust!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: The Warden at March 31, 2005 10:43 AM (GHOoT)
6
Just to be clear: Here's the very wealthy Danforth family's history in the fine dog-chow manufacturing business.
Posted by: KCTrio at March 31, 2005 10:58 AM (hT8GB)
7
And here's a bit about what the foundation gives; there's some good, short information about John Claggett Danforth's eductation. Social Register material, this man is. He's probably a really good guy. His eulogy at Reagan's funeral was lovely.
Posted by: KCTrio at March 31, 2005 11:03 AM (hT8GB)
8
KC
what? did danforth steal your widdle cat when you were a little Episcopal priest's love toy and turn it into dogchow?
You're just a creepy, obsessed stalker, jerking off in the corner to the purina logo.
Give it up, man, you're only embarassing yourself.
What's that? The OTHER thread is for gratuitous flaming?
Oh, OK.
what? did danforth steal your widdle cat when you were a little Episcopal priest's love toy and turn it into dogchow?
You're just a creepy, obsessed stalker, jerking off in the corner to the purina logo.
Give it up, man, you're only embarassing yourself.
What's that? The OTHER thread is for gratuitous flaming?
Oh, OK.
Posted by: hobgoblin at March 31, 2005 11:06 AM (2da3S)
9
Hey ace, speaking of death and debates, there are reports that the pope's going down for the third time. (errrr... perhaps not the best euphemism...) Of course, the Vatican is denying the reports again.
It got me to wondering... couldn't the Dead Parrot Skit be rewritten on this theme? Only one man's got the shirts for this job!
It got me to wondering... couldn't the Dead Parrot Skit be rewritten on this theme? Only one man's got the shirts for this job!
Posted by: The Black Republican at March 31, 2005 11:06 AM (vgyJ5)
10
I can't help but wonder, re the Danforth editorial, what, exactly has the Religious Right won thus far?
After all, if they have such an iron grip on all branches of government, where are there triumphs?
After all, if they have such an iron grip on all branches of government, where are there triumphs?
Posted by: Jimmie at March 31, 2005 11:11 AM (hVEeW)
11
Come on Hob,
I'm just trying to get my facts straight. I said in my initial post that I was pretty sure he was part of the family that founded the Ralston Purina company. So I just wanted to get those things cleared up in case i made an error of statement.
I have no axe to grind with Danforth. I like the man. My father went to school with the guy from childhood through his years at Princeton, so I wanted to make sure I didn't diss the man. If I came across that way, I didn't mean to.
I just think his editorial will give some weight to the charge that the media wants to make: That the social conservatives are the equivalent of the Taliban. That's what I don't like. Danforth didn't, but the media may.
If I've embarressed myself in your eyes, that would concern me.
How may I correct that, kind sir?
I'm just trying to get my facts straight. I said in my initial post that I was pretty sure he was part of the family that founded the Ralston Purina company. So I just wanted to get those things cleared up in case i made an error of statement.
I have no axe to grind with Danforth. I like the man. My father went to school with the guy from childhood through his years at Princeton, so I wanted to make sure I didn't diss the man. If I came across that way, I didn't mean to.
I just think his editorial will give some weight to the charge that the media wants to make: That the social conservatives are the equivalent of the Taliban. That's what I don't like. Danforth didn't, but the media may.
If I've embarressed myself in your eyes, that would concern me.
How may I correct that, kind sir?
Posted by: KCTrio at March 31, 2005 11:24 AM (hT8GB)
12
OK Hob:
This KC asshole has pissed me off, big time. To make up for it, he's going to have to sword fight me. And I breathe fire. The little weenie is going to be baked and crispy.
This KC asshole has pissed me off, big time. To make up for it, he's going to have to sword fight me. And I breathe fire. The little weenie is going to be baked and crispy.
Posted by: Bob Dole's Cock at March 31, 2005 11:26 AM (hT8GB)
13
KC, I WANT you to flame Danforth. I'm just so into that.
It's so hot.
(no, you didn't trash him, BUT YOU SHOULD!!!1!!11!!!!!!1111!onehundredeleven)
It's so hot.
(no, you didn't trash him, BUT YOU SHOULD!!!1!!11!!!!!!1111!onehundredeleven)
Posted by: hobgoblin at March 31, 2005 11:34 AM (2da3S)
14
Oh no. An Episcopal priest is decrying the influence of the Religious Right. Stop the presses. Cause when you've lost the clergy of the Frozen Chosen, it's all over.
Long ago the Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA) was called the "Republican Party at Prayer" and was the natural choice for respectable WASPs like George HW Bush. But they've since descended into wacky irrelevance. Theologically and politically they've turned into a refuge for couples from different backgrounds looking for a religion without any sharp theological edges, and also for those (especially gays) who find Roman Catholic orthodoxy too forbidding but enjoy the incense.
There are many conservatives who hang around the ECUSA because, well, it's a good institution and being conservatives, they hope to save it. But there are also many "Continuing Church" alternatives that use the old prayer books and tend to (at least) downplay all the gay-marriage, kiss-of-peace, anti-tradition, discordant-silly-hymn, feelgood, smarmy, hideous-architecture, no-sin, no-Virgin-Birth, Biblically-ignorant, history-effacing, whitey-guilt, Give-Peace-A-Chance, smug, one-worlder, liberation-theology, lesbian-druid-priestess-at-Candlemas, Mumia-smooching sludge that makes me quite satisfied to know I was on the opposite side of this issue from the ECUSA.
Next the NYT will run a nice little hit job from the world's only Unitarian republican and I'll crack a big smile.
Long ago the Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA) was called the "Republican Party at Prayer" and was the natural choice for respectable WASPs like George HW Bush. But they've since descended into wacky irrelevance. Theologically and politically they've turned into a refuge for couples from different backgrounds looking for a religion without any sharp theological edges, and also for those (especially gays) who find Roman Catholic orthodoxy too forbidding but enjoy the incense.
There are many conservatives who hang around the ECUSA because, well, it's a good institution and being conservatives, they hope to save it. But there are also many "Continuing Church" alternatives that use the old prayer books and tend to (at least) downplay all the gay-marriage, kiss-of-peace, anti-tradition, discordant-silly-hymn, feelgood, smarmy, hideous-architecture, no-sin, no-Virgin-Birth, Biblically-ignorant, history-effacing, whitey-guilt, Give-Peace-A-Chance, smug, one-worlder, liberation-theology, lesbian-druid-priestess-at-Candlemas, Mumia-smooching sludge that makes me quite satisfied to know I was on the opposite side of this issue from the ECUSA.
Next the NYT will run a nice little hit job from the world's only Unitarian republican and I'll crack a big smile.
Posted by: See-Dubya at March 31, 2005 11:41 AM (mL2wb)
15
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?ijg520
Posted by: Impeach Greer at March 31, 2005 11:44 AM (WiyhL)
16
And you know what, See-Dubya? My dad is just one of those people that is hanging on, petitioning the church to change their ways. He's about to leave and join a split sect.
The sad part of the whole thing is that the vast majority of Episcopalians are pretty hard-core social conservatives from Africa, and they dominate the church's numbers, and they are getting mighty tired of the liberal leaning ways of the Mother Church in England.
I said goodbye to the Episcopal church long ago because of this (other reasons, but this was one of them) and became Catholic.
The sad part of the whole thing is that the vast majority of Episcopalians are pretty hard-core social conservatives from Africa, and they dominate the church's numbers, and they are getting mighty tired of the liberal leaning ways of the Mother Church in England.
I said goodbye to the Episcopal church long ago because of this (other reasons, but this was one of them) and became Catholic.
Posted by: KCTrio at March 31, 2005 11:59 AM (hT8GB)
17
While I think that debate is healthy, I am tiring of the Jesus Lovin' Bible Thumper vs. Nazi Death Merchant arguments.
The political range of those debating the issues varies from strong religious right protesters to Jessie Jackson to people like Danforth.
However, the media (and the left) will take this as an issue driven by the religious right and run with it ad nauseum all the way till the next election.
However, if I had spent the evening on ace's crack pipe (literally, not figuratively), I might wonder whether the left has pretty much marginalized itself and the 'split' would become the far right vs. the center right with the center left thrown in leaving the far left on the sidelines.
Over the past decade or so, the country, nay the Western world has driven headlong into a swamp of political correctness and insane left wing ideology. It might be nice to see the place starting to swing back to normality for a while.
The political range of those debating the issues varies from strong religious right protesters to Jessie Jackson to people like Danforth.
However, the media (and the left) will take this as an issue driven by the religious right and run with it ad nauseum all the way till the next election.
However, if I had spent the evening on ace's crack pipe (literally, not figuratively), I might wonder whether the left has pretty much marginalized itself and the 'split' would become the far right vs. the center right with the center left thrown in leaving the far left on the sidelines.
Over the past decade or so, the country, nay the Western world has driven headlong into a swamp of political correctness and insane left wing ideology. It might be nice to see the place starting to swing back to normality for a while.
Posted by: DelphiGuy at March 31, 2005 12:01 PM (nyx6v)
18
Before, during, and after GW went into Iraq, his sharpest critics were the old geezers of Bush the Elder's Coterie. Of course, Danforth is one of these. He is also one who was given attention and a prestigious appointment by George the Younger.
For some reason he follows up w/ this bitching and baying at the moon.
I'm not a radical Bible thumping religionist.
But neither do i fear that any God-zillas will crush Tokyo and take over the GOP.
But i do wonder:
doth the Danforth protesteth too muth?
Some of the Old Guard behave as though they resent the upstarts in charge, who might show up the weakness of their beloved policies...one of which was BOHICA for the radical black robes of the Left.
For some reason he follows up w/ this bitching and baying at the moon.
I'm not a radical Bible thumping religionist.
But neither do i fear that any God-zillas will crush Tokyo and take over the GOP.
But i do wonder:
doth the Danforth protesteth too muth?
Some of the Old Guard behave as though they resent the upstarts in charge, who might show up the weakness of their beloved policies...one of which was BOHICA for the radical black robes of the Left.
Posted by: at March 31, 2005 12:47 PM (x0C8F)
19
(Scratches head.) Where are the Religious Right taking over the GOP any more than in the days when Anita Bryant went around saying teh Gays! Are stealing tots' orange jooce! or something. I just keep waiting for this revelation of increased theothugism among the Repubs and I still see the same old ugly-pants-wearing crew that saves more than it spends (except on golf clubs and government pork) that I joined last year to piss off the neohippies. Trust me, nothing will break the dead hand of the don't-rock-the-boat Lutherans that run the show from behind the scenes down at the Grand Old Party headquarters. Besides, three-quarters of the Catholics protesting against abortion are Liberation Theology Marxists; everyone knows the Southern Baptists run the Right-to-Life groups. And they don't do rosaries or any of that other heathen idolatry stuff. [/CEDARFORDIFHEWEREGREEKORTHODOX]
Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 31, 2005 03:15 PM (0XThq)
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