Ace of Spades HQ

February 07, 2009

The Cloward/Piven Strategy of Economic Recovery
— Ace

This is JackStraw's big thing -- he's been sending me tips about it for months and months. (Link Fixed.)

I don't know about the intentional sabotage of government in order to provoke a crisis. I definitely think these cats are big into creating a permanent crisis atmosphere which will allow them to impose the "change" they seek.

Thanks to Larwyn.

Posted by: Ace at 12:07 PM | Comments (151)
Post contains 72 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Bad link.

Posted by: Sarge6 at February 07, 2009 12:11 PM (TINPn)

Bush = Hitl---, wait . . .

Bush = Hindenberg.

Posted by: FireHorse at February 07, 2009 12:11 PM (5KNeJ)

3 I doubt it was intentional, but they sure do like using it to their advantage. Nice !

Posted by: jbarntt at February 07, 2009 12:11 PM (qSalV)

4 #2 You magnificent bastard!

Posted by: George Orwell at February 07, 2009 12:13 PM (AZGON)

5 is this supposed to be the same link as the previous remarks. The link goes to the Wash Post kissing Obama's ass about keeping an 'open mind' on GTMO. Not sure if that's what JackStraw's really giving a shit about.

Posted by: NJRob at February 07, 2009 12:13 PM (NYSmP)

6 They can only "impose" it if the limp dicks (including the Maine sisters) on the right allow them. As usual, though, they will grossly over-reach and then the electorate, in all likelihood, will smack them back down a la Clinton '94 presuming, of course, that the extra billions to ACORN/Amnesty won't allow them to steal elections from here to the end of time.

Posted by: ECM at February 07, 2009 12:14 PM (q3V+C)

7 I think that's a link for the other post. Copy/paste only works when you actually copy. Too much Valu-Rite Vodka. Ace will fix it after he's done with the hobo.

Posted by: ukuleledave at February 07, 2009 12:15 PM (netQx)

8 I thought I was going to see some guy's big thing.

Posted by: cassandra at February 07, 2009 12:17 PM (Cf6j0)

9 Obviously have not read the link. But...any time you start talking about "sabotage of the government to provoke a crisis," you're getting awfully close to the tin foil hat crowd that is worrying about FEMA camps, black helicopters and the North American Union, among other things.

And the milk conspiracy. Don't forget that.

/so how do I know this? Well, sure, sometimes, late at night, I go to those "conspiracy" websites, and I totally know that Obama is going to release everything he knows about extraterrestrials UFO's !!!!!!!111!!!!1!!!!

Posted by: shibumi at February 07, 2009 12:21 PM (tZB/c)

It wasn't sabotage, unless Carter, Clinton, & Obama cooked this thing up in their cradles. Rahm Emmanual did say something about always using a crisis to your advantage, though...

Posted by: '80sBaby at February 07, 2009 12:22 PM (zmiSr)

11 I just watched Susan Collins. She ain't this smart. Very few Senators are, Hell, none of them are. They are walking talking Quasars of stupidity, spraying stupid rays across the cosmos at an alarming rate. Passing within a light year or so of any of them makes us stupid too. None of them have ever planned any thing in their lives beyond where they will get their next drink or bribe and none of them will ever be able to. These are seriously stupid, useless people.

Posted by: The Obvious at February 07, 2009 12:23 PM (1g+FW)

Wrong link, but in response to intentionally sabataging the government:

I've thought since November that someone should take a hard look at Soros' stock portfolio and trading records for Oct and Nov, along with others like him. It would not take much to spark a selloff, and they could afford to sit on it a while. Meanwhile, we're left with a self-fulfilling prophesy about how horrible things are, and the media bleating that only BarryO and the Bill can save us.

Posted by: JamesLee at February 07, 2009 12:24 PM (zGEVm)

13 The correct link for the above is here: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/the_clowardpiven_strategy_of_e.html (more info and links at comments for that article) but before you read it, I would suggest that you read this if you are unfamiliar with Cloward/Piven: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html After reading the articles above you have to ask yourself about the coincidence of all those people mentioned in the life of BO.

Posted by: turfmann at February 07, 2009 12:24 PM (4uQmv)

14 Besides, a good conspiracy theory always contains the Freemasons & all that jazz--and this one doesn't.

Posted by: '80sBaby at February 07, 2009 12:25 PM (zmiSr)

The link goes to the Wash Post kissing Obama's ass about keeping an 'open mind' on GTMO.

Two salient points here:

1) President Bush did this all the time, but hardly ever publicized it. When it did leak out it was always spun in the media as cynical manipulation.

2) Obama is probably still a bit stunned... he probably hasn't met many real Americans before, just leftist community organizer suckholes, media suckholes and political suckholes. I hope somebody chewed his clown ass, and we just haven't heard about it yet!

Posted by: sherlock at February 07, 2009 12:28 PM (8V5Ut)

16 Is Obama a Free Mason?

I knew it.

Posted by: SlaveDog at February 07, 2009 12:29 PM (H6Jyg)

17 #13 I'm reading those American Thinker links. Suddenly, I feel as if a chainsaw serial killer is lurking behind me. This is scary, scary stuff. You can see precisely how we will end up with Cuban socialized medicine.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 07, 2009 12:31 PM (AZGON)

18 The problem with the Cloward/Piven strategy is that first, people demand results, and second, it's vulnerable to an elite that acts like they are privileged.

We are seeing the second part play out. Obama picked these guys, Geithner and Solis and Daschle knowing their problems and not realizing that this populist strategy carried with it a constraint.

That constraint is, when you play with populist politics, when you are exposed as an elitist, with special privileges and airs and rules for elites only, your support craters because the people conclude that you are in fact, just another one of their enemies.

Pushing these guys who did not pay their taxes as everyone is doing theirs is politically stupid.

Next, if you use your opportunities to seize power, you hold the responsibility for delivering. As Mickey Kaus says, FASTER. The Feiler Faster theory. Obama ran on and said in his first few weeks in office that he would fix things immediately. His supporters think he will.

Now that he is President, people expect him to fix everything now. THe more he talks the economy and situation down, the more he looks weak, uncertain, privileged, elite, without delivering the goods.

The Spendulus will be a political failure, even Biden knows it, because it will put a lot of money in privileged elites hands, giving easy rise to Republican ads pushing the populist notion that Obama betrayed/lied to people along with Dems and just gave money to connected, powerful, privileged elites for whom the law does not apply, while screwing over the Average Joe.

If the Spendulus actually worked, well the counter-argument would be in 2010 that it was worth it. But even Biden does not expect it to work. Results -- item after item of elite spending that screws over Joe Average.

Cloward/Piven is high risk/reward. It only works if you can shut down any populist attacks by seizing control of the entire media. Hence the Fairness Doctrine, etc.

The problem is, however, the bigger the country the more the various interest groups will fight. Sirius will fight the Fairness Doctrine, along with Fox, various Radio syndicators, etc. Particularly in a Recession without money flowing around for various opportunities.

This is really a play for privileged connected folk to milk the system out of every last drop of cash. As such it will generate a lot of opposition.

Posted by: whiskey at February 07, 2009 12:40 PM (t3UKO)

19 Have read the link now and feel completely freaked out.

Take back earlier post re: tin foil hat people.

Agree with JamesLee above regards the Soros stock portfolio.

Yikes.

Posted by: shibumi at February 07, 2009 12:41 PM (tZB/c)

20 I wouldn't put this past Soros, though...

Posted by: '80sBaby at February 07, 2009 12:45 PM (zmiSr)

21 For what it's worth, here are Soros' top holding in his portfolio, as of last December:

Petroleo Brasileiro (PBR): 24.3% of portfolioPotash (POT): 11.5% of portfolioWalmart (WMT): 6% of portfolioHess (HES): 4.5% of portfolioConoco Phillips (COP): 3.3% of portfolioRF Micro (RFMDL) 1st batch of Notes: 3.2% of portfolioMercury Computer (MRCY) Notes: 3% of portfolioAudiocodes (AUDC) Notes: 2.9% of portfolioResearch in Motion (RIMM): 2.9% of portfolioLSI Corp (LSI) Notes: 2.5% of portfolioRF Micro (RFMDL) 2nd batch of Notes: 2.5% of portfolioArch Coal (ACI): 2.5% of portfolioIshares Real Estate (IYR): 2.1% of portfolioAgere Systems (inactive) Notes - 2.1% of portfolioPowershares QQQ (QQQQ): 2% of portfolioNovell (NOVL) Notes: 2% of portfolioMcdata (inactive) Notes: 1.9% of portfolioRed Hat (RHT) Notes: 1.4% of portfolioSchlumberger (SLB): 1.1% of portfolioMAP Pharma (MAPP): 1.1% of portfolio

Posted by: shibumi at February 07, 2009 12:47 PM (tZB/c)

22

A conspiracy or the natural order of humanity?

This shit has happened before, it can happen again, naturally, without the benefit of assholes like Bill Ayers, although his shit helps their cause.

Not ONCE did I hear President Obama say a fucking word about Freedom, freedom of man to make his own choices.

I am sure that the peaut farming asshole was exactly the same when he campaigned.

These people have no concept of freedom, it is missing from their "intellect"...

Posted by: Senator, Advisor Rev. Dr. E. Buzz Miller at February 07, 2009 12:48 PM (cTHpq)

23 Well, it's clear that "fixing" the economy is not the issue. If it were, these clowns would read up on some economics and history and do what works. I don't know if it's about overwhelming the system to create change, but it's definitely about power.

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at February 07, 2009 12:53 PM (+Iv1E)

Is this a good time to remind elites of the word "guillotine"? This is not to threaten, but to remind people of the lessons of the French Revolution. The more distance you place between the classes, the less control the people have over their situation, the more resentful they become. Do progressives, liberals, Democrats and people of that ilk think that the American people are going to stand for this level of corruption?

Keep pushing. Let's see where that leads to.

Posted by: Harry at February 07, 2009 01:03 PM (RxSlU)

25 The thought crossed my mind that over the last several years, Democrats (Barney Frank in particular) have worked to deliberately sabotage the economy, as opposed to just being flat-out stupid.

Posted by: profligatewaste at February 07, 2009 01:04 PM (tAZX+)

26 Barney Frank is by all accounts one of the most intelligent men in Congress. That is not an assessment of his morals or his ethics. To dismiss him as stupid is, well, stupid.

Posted by: turfmann at February 07, 2009 01:07 PM (4uQmv)

27 profligatewaste, I didn't mean to suggest that you were stupid, I was just adding some whipped cream to you point. Sorry if it was taken wrong.

Posted by: turfmann at February 07, 2009 01:09 PM (4uQmv)

28 Absolutely they are trying to create a situation where they can implement anything they want, and silence or crush any opposition to their ideas. Problem is, this is America and that's really really hard to do.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 07, 2009 01:21 PM (PQY7w)

29 For what its worth indeed! http://tinyurl.com/5v8ejl

Posted by: been there done that at February 07, 2009 01:47 PM (K4Zxt)

Yes Frank is a formidable opponent to be sure.

Posted by: been there done that at February 07, 2009 01:50 PM (K4Zxt)

31 In keeping with the AoS masthead ...

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary" ~ H.L. Mencken

Posted by: Andy at February 07, 2009 01:56 PM (B+HYX)

The communist agenda has been advancing for many years. Some early players include Al Gore's father who's benifactor was Armand Hammer. Joe Kennedy Sr. was also open to dealing with advocates of the communist idiology. Hillary Clinton's internship at Berkley included her mentoring by a communist professor. This isn't the beggining of the socialists agenda we are witnessing this is the culmanation of the struggle. The new age of communist rule is here.

With the advent of the Patriot Act it is now possible to incarcerate a person for the crime of being unAmerican or a percieved threat to the current political concept of what American is. Hard line communists can enforce these laws to eleminate the best and brightest among a population to stifle dissent.

Other than that everythings peachy keen. Have a nice day.

Posted by: been there done that at February 07, 2009 02:11 PM (K4Zxt)

33 With the advent of the Patriot Act it is now possible to incarcerate a person for the crime of being unAmerican or a percieved threat to the current political concept of what American is.

Really? Please cite. Could be useful.

Posted by: Druid at February 07, 2009 02:16 PM (mdr+B)

34 Yes, this is intentional. The crisis strategy is to force citizens to rely solely on the government for everything. Not a pretty outcome for Americans, here, since it's the govt instigating the crisis. Again, look to the bankers which control the CFR.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 02:55 PM (Srqga)

HR 3162

Title 8

Section 802.

Sub (a) (B) i&ii

Posted by: been there done that at February 07, 2009 03:02 PM (K4Zxt)

36 and keep in mind...Rahm Emmanual, Geo Stephanopolos, Carville and (I think) Begala have been speaking on the phone everyday FOR 17 YEARS. So they've been planning something, I'd guess.

Posted by: jmb at February 07, 2009 03:03 PM (RHFrv)

37 turfman

Actually, I am pretty stupid by all accounts.

Posted by: profligatewaste at February 07, 2009 03:08 PM (tAZX+)

38 Buck Farack is, I believe, deliberately trying to drive this economy into the ground, as evidenced, among dozens of other things, by his latest executive order, which excludes 84% of American construction workers from working on the projects that would be funded by the Orwellian-named "stimulus" package:
http://tinyurl.com/cf2zen

What happens once this crisis deepens into something even worse than the Great Depression? Well, Rep. Alcee Hastings, Buck Farack's fellow black leader, this week introduced a bill to convert at least six military bases around the U.S. into civilian detention centers for use in "national emergencies"--with the state of emergency being determined, of course, by the Administration:
http://tinyurl.com/andzdn

Once we've got those detention centers set up, and tens of millions of seriously, frightfully desperate people, what happens? In case you don't remember when this broke last fall (NOT in the MSM of course!), let me remind you of Obama buddy Bill Ayers' Weather Underground gang's plans for "eliminating" up to 25 million "die-hard capitalist" Americans who could not be successfully "re-educated"--according to Larry Grothwohl, former Weather Underground member and FBI informant:
http://tinyurl.com/5n2d3v

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at February 07, 2009 03:12 PM (yUBsp)

I get a distinct whiff of crazy from that American Thinker article. How reliable is the American Thinker, anyway? Is it a serious Web site, or is it the right-wing equivalent of Daily Kos? Based on this link, I'm guessing the latter.

For a more serious assessment of the stimulus/spendulus, see this essay by economist Adam Posen. He may or may not be right, but at least he is looking at the plan's pros and cons and making an effort to talk sense.

Posted by: sauropod at February 07, 2009 03:14 PM (D7bS1)

40 This is a good post. I've been thinking pretty much the same thing with regard to Cloward/Piven. It works hand-in-hand with why all the people with tax and other significant problems are being put in positions of authority. That isn't an oversight; that's not a new administration goof.

It's on purpose. Would a Chicago mob boss put a bunch of choir boys and boy scouts in charge of his operations? Nope. He'd put a bunch of low-lifes who he had a lot of dirt on in charge of everything. That means that he can never be questioned from within his inner circle.

I am that cynical...strike that...discerning about Obama, simply because I believe the words that come out of the man's mouth, and the American Thinker post is almost assuredly correct in its conclusions.

Folks, Obama is not an idiot. The guy just got himself elected POTUS absolutely out of nowhere, after all. He know what he is doing and hides little, in my opinion, having listened to his speeches on the campaign trail.

What the hell does "fundamental change" mean if not, well, fundamental change?

Posted by: ArrMatey at February 07, 2009 03:17 PM (35LYA)

Some of you "smarter" commenters remind me of battered wives.

Posted by: ASimpleMind at February 07, 2009 03:29 PM (E3ea4)

42 This shouldn't be of any surprise to any of you morons.
The only thing government knows how to do is take from the people who work
and give it to people who don't work. Stop paying your taxes for 1 year or until government cleans house and purges the thousands who do nothing anyway.
The fed can print money for defense and fire.
The impetus to push through a package so quickly had much to do with the economic meltdown in California. If that municipal system breaks down, then control top down gets lost. The stimulus plan will not have a big effect.
Americans are sucka's or just plain stoopid.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 03:29 PM (/i4dU)

43 @39

The thing about that I've always wondered: what would the military actually do if told to round up capitalists/die-hard conservatives? The military is overwhelmingly conservative and an order like that would be akin to an order to shoot yourself.

Personally, I'll be flipping a coin over whether to stay in or go rogue if that shit ever happens. Absurd.

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 03:29 PM (MU8lS)

44 And don't forget this new little shift of the Census Bureau from the Commerce Dept into Rahmbo's hands. The perfect way to ensure the future success of democrats down the road. You don't think that this was expertly calculated? I don't consider myself a tin-foil-hat person, but this Cloward-Piven-Alinsky shit is enough to scare the bejebus out of anybody.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 03:33 PM (YQY6G)

45 Where's my mutha fuckin unicorn?

Posted by: The American People at February 07, 2009 03:38 PM (HaieA)

46 To dismiss him as stupid is, well, stupid.

So, he's evil then.

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 03:38 PM (PD1tk)

Taxes are used to impoverish working people into needing government programs.

Democrats have been driving up the cost of health care through regulations and litigation for years in hopes of making it unaffordable. The answer: Socialized Medicine.

There is a lot of money in the Stinkulus for computerizing all medical records in a single form. Why? Single form, Single payer.

Another way to drive up costs, grow government and deconstruct America is to flood the country with poor people. Amnesty is coming.

Obama has been surrounded by communists since he was conceived. The Leviathan State is the goal. Don't kid yourself.

Posted by: Noel at February 07, 2009 03:41 PM (7FgWm)

48 Rahm:

They're onto us.

BO

Posted by: Barack Obama at February 07, 2009 03:44 PM (HaieA)

49 Well, fuck.

Posted by: Barack Obama at February 07, 2009 03:44 PM (HaieA)

50 47 So, he's evil then.

I bet President Obama believes fundamental change from a liberal democracy to socialism will better serve the interests of the people. The scary thing to me here is that these people don't see their agenda as evil at all - they see it as a step towards utopia. There will be no heaven on earth though, and when they come to take what's mine by force they'll find the well dry.

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 03:45 PM (MU8lS)

51 But...any time you start talking about "sabotage of the government to provoke a crisis," you're getting awfully close to the tin foil hat crowd that is worrying about FEMA camps, black helicopters and the North American Union, among other things.

Yeah, except Jackstraw is not a tinfoil hat type. At all.

Posted by: Nice Deb at February 07, 2009 03:51 PM (L9mi3)

52 46 Where's my mutha fuckin unicorn?

It's right here, where it always has been.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 03:52 PM (Srqga)

53 36

Sorry, my ignorant ass, this being intertube thingy and all, got a LINK that uses the same terms in question.

Shiite.

Posted by: Druid at February 07, 2009 03:53 PM (mdr+B)

54 HR 3162 Title 8 Section 802. Sub (a) (B) i&ii

amends Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code to say:

5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that -
   (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation
       of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
   (B) appear to be intended -
       (i)    to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
       (ii)    to influence the policy of a government by
              intimidation or coercion; or
       (iii)   to affect the conduct of a government by mass
             destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
       (C)   occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of
             the United States.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem with this

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 03:55 PM (PD1tk)

55 The irony is that the loony left, most prominently that twatwaffle Naomi Klein, tries to push the idea that this is what conservatives do. But I suppose that when your whole existence is about deception to further your cause it is only natural that they'd project the same kind of slimebag behavior on their enemies.

Posted by: Steven P at February 07, 2009 03:56 PM (fkgyi)

56 Here's a Dick Morris article that I think is relevant: http://tinyurl.com/ccgnz7

In it, Dick Morris talks about what Obama's first term will do to America. Around the time this article came out, Morris was on Hannity talking about a conversation he had with Bill Clinton years ago. In that conversation, Bill Clinton basically said that it was the Democrat's dream to get the middle class addicted to entitlements the way the lower class is. He said that it would mean the Democrats would basically be in power forever. If entitlements are expanded to the middle class as extensively as they are to the lower class then the government would have to grow dramatically to support the new entitlements. The potential outcomes from that would be either a much larger federal government and an enormous entitlement class, or a failed capitalist democracy. The latter would certainly provide people of the anti-capitalist persuasion a foot in the door to remake America.

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 03:59 PM (MU8lS)

57 Thanks Angel,

"Activities that ... are a violation of the criminal laws..."

I guess I am to believe that the mad scary magic of the Patriot Act is that it defined a new term for something already illegal.

Posted by: Druid at February 07, 2009 04:02 PM (mdr+B)

58 Re: HR 3162

It's okay for the govt to do these things:
`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or"

But not civilian patriots. So, in essence, it's an Act against Patriots. To enforce this act, Obama wants to train civilians to act against each other.

Obama's "civilian national security force"

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:03 PM (Srqga)

59 "Activities that ... are a violation of the criminal laws..."

And have the attributes of (B) and (C), so its not just any violation.

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 04:04 PM (PD1tk)

60 it's an Act against Patriots

If one defines intimidation as patriotic. I call that the Mob.

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 04:07 PM (PD1tk)

That Dick Morris article was insightful; thanks for the link blankminde. Here's one of my favorite lines: "Ronald Reagan cut taxes to raise the deficit to stop liberals in future years from increasing spending. Obama will raise spending to raise the deficit to stop conservatives in future years from cutting taxes."

The article also points out that the new programs will essentially be permanent; this was something that McCain said in last nights debate of the StimBill on the Senate Floor: there is no end date. Further, many of the programs that are in the bill don't even start until 2010.

It is essential that we keep contacting our congresscritters this weekend to not let them accept this shit in any form. Rushing to get this passed is simply part of The Strategy.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:12 PM (YQY6G)

62 ..44 ..>The thing about that I've always wondered: what would the military actually do if told to round up capitalists/die-hard conservatives? The military is overwhelmingly conservative and an order like that would be akin to an order to shoot yourself.

Already planned for. UN and Canadian soldiers will mop us up for the camps..
which also will be home to all the unemployed, homeless souls.
The 3rd infantry is in the states now training for the unrest. The UN and Canadian force will do the dirty work like shooting.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:13 PM (/i4dU)

63 If one defines intimidation as patriotic. I call that the Mob.

It also says coercion, which is not at all the mob. The mob has been running the show with both for decades, and it's time to fight back. Dissent = intimidation to the crooks upstairs, and they will use this act against people that want to stand up for their rights. The definitions in this act will be bent to the govt's benefit and made to look like a good thing.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:14 PM (Srqga)

64 >Rushing to get this passed is simply part of The Strategy.
True dat

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:16 PM (/i4dU)

65 When can we bring out the pitchforks?

Posted by: ex-Democrat at February 07, 2009 04:17 PM (YPV4C)

sickinmass: many weeks ago, you made a comment about things that were going to happen that were not to be believed. You didn't elaborate then and I'm wondering if those "things" are beginning to come to fruition now.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:18 PM (YQY6G)

67 Dissent = intimidation to the crooks upstairs, and they will use this act against people that want to stand up for their rights. The definitions in this act will be bent to the govt's benefit and made to look like a good thing.

Stranger things have happened I guess, but personally, I think that's nonsense. If their ability and will to power was that great, it doesn't matter what the law says. It would be easier just to frame you for something.

The Patriot Act, at least the part that you are worried about here, seems pretty commonsensical to me.

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 04:20 PM (PD1tk)

68 Everything will work out in the end. Always does.
Do not show fear. That's what gives them their power over us.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:20 PM (/i4dU)

69 UN and Canadian soldiers will mop us up for the camps..

And then the camps will just mop us up.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:20 PM (Srqga)

70 The Patriot Act, at least the part that you are worried about here, seems pretty commonsensical to me.

Only if you still believe the govt cares about Americans.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:22 PM (Srqga)

71 Knowledge is what gives us power over them.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:22 PM (YQY6G)

72 cyn,
I posted the link for you on that thread. Should I do it here?
You must have gotten busy to come back.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:23 PM (/i4dU)

73 Do not show fear. That's what gives them their power over us.

Exactly. Also quiet non-compliance to the global agenda.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:23 PM (Srqga)

74 So many threads ago, sickinmass, so so many. Yes, please do post linky again here. Much obliged.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:24 PM (YQY6G)

75 The less we react to this cause and effect tactic, the better off we are. What ever you do, though, don't let them take away your guns. Exercise every right you have according to the Constitution of the United States of America.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:25 PM (Srqga)

76 Only if you still believe the govt cares about Americans.

No, I mean that it seems like a common sense definition of Domestic Terrorist. If you have a better one; that defines the bad guys without doing whatever you are worried about, I wouldn't mind hearing it. Seriously.

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 04:26 PM (PD1tk)

77 What ever you do, though, don't let them take away your guns. Exercise every right you have according to the Constitution of the United States of America.

+10 Duesa

On that I agree. Save the economy, Buy guns and ammo!

Posted by: the angel of death wearing a funny hat at February 07, 2009 04:27 PM (PD1tk)

78 >Also quiet non-compliance to the global agenda.
Simple. Don't pay taxes. Get off the grid and starve the mutherfuckers.
THEY work for US!!!!!!!!

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:29 PM (/i4dU)

79 Telling a group of Marines to stand by while Canadians or Europeans shoot Americans is going to be a really hard fucking sell.

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 04:29 PM (MU8lS)

The less we react to this cause and effect tactic, the better off we are.

I think that this strategy would be wrong in the long run. We should react strongly, loudly, and repeatedly to our elected officials--let them know of those plans, bills, and programs with which we disagree. To say nothing is to be dominated. I don't mean to wax on quite so, but I think it is incumbent upon each of us to voice our concerns and opinions.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:31 PM (YQY6G)

81 80 Telling a group of Marines to stand by while Canadians or Europeans shoot Americans is going to be a really hard fucking sell.

They will be real busy with a false flag clean up.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:34 PM (/i4dU)

82 No, I mean that it seems like a common sense definition of Domestic Terrorist.

The govts definition of domestic terrorist has nothing to do with real terrorism. This Patriot Act is nothing more than window dressing for control. Before long, if this thing is enforced, it will be the "civilian national security force" that is trained on how to view intimidation and coercion. Common sense will tell you this is in favor of the American people, but the loopholes go right along with all the other lies we've been told.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:36 PM (Srqga)

83 109
Link 109,cyn.
Read previous post for context. I was kinda pissed.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:36 PM (/i4dU)

84 Thanks, sickinmass; reading now.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:38 PM (YQY6G)

85 Telling a group of Marines us rednecks to stand by while Canadians or Europeans shoot Americans us is going to be a really hard fucking sell. cold day in hell, unless we fall over pissing ourselves in laughter.

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 09:29 PM (MU8lS)

FIFY.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at February 07, 2009 04:41 PM (HaieA)

86 It doesn't even have to be a conspiracy - it's just people (who seek power) who have similar ideologies and similar methods. They take advantage of the mess the last guy made.

As to whether the Military will act as "enforcers," every time they're asked the say "not no but Hell no," i.e. the famous Twentynine Palms poll. Rumor has it (RUMOR ALERT) that the off-the cuff discussion after the poll was about why the questionnaire didn't have a "shoot the officer who gave the order" option. Probably just a rumor, but, hey, it's funny.

As to Rep. Hastings' bill, the article quotes him as saying "Anybody toting guns and stripping moose don't care too much about what they do with Jews and blacks."

So, like, weapons-grade crazy. Well, that happens when people vote for Democrats.

Posted by: Merovign at February 07, 2009 04:41 PM (or0jG)

87 We should react strongly, loudly, and repeatedly to our elected officials--let them know of those plans, bills, and programs with which we disagree.

That would work only if they hadn't been so successful at ruining our economy and trying to make us clean up their never-ending mess. Stock up on food, don't pay illegal taxes that have been imposed and only use your guns if you absolutely need to. Writing to your congressman is certainly the way to go, but strong and loud could turn into riots, which would justify being corralled into detention camps and stamped as a domestic terrorist. Write letters and pass fliers around so people are aware, but don't put yourself in harms way.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 04:45 PM (Srqga)

88 >>like, weapons-grade crazy. Well, that happens when people vote for Democrats.
So sad and true.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:46 PM (/i4dU)

89 @86

You make an excellent point. Never in the history of the world has a light cavalry been seen that would compare to waves of pickups full of furious rednecks. Seriously, establishments don't often beat guerrillas. Except that one time in Syria...

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 04:48 PM (MU8lS)

90 Duesa,
Everytime someone gets shot with a gun the moonbats go nuts.
Any crazy redneck using one in protest might be the breaking point for Gov. to start rounding them up. 2 bills are in front of congress now.
Stay calm and write and call!

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 04:51 PM (/i4dU)

pickups full of furious rednecks

Ha! I suddenly have this vision of Texas. And it's a good thing!

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 04:56 PM (YQY6G)

strong and loud could turn into riots, which would justify being corralled into detention camps and stamped as a domestic terrorist

Okay, I'll be the first...WOLVERINES!

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 05:00 PM (YQY6G)

93 Re: 84 1092. A return of the DRAFT from a pool of 18-45 year old men and women, with little if any ability to get draft deferments. There will also be a "national service" and everyone will be required to participate. Don't want to? Tough!!

This is already in the works with schools:

Obamas Civilian Security Force Prompts Questions

We need to be able to deploy teams that combine agricultural specialists and engineers and linguists and cultural specialists who are prepared to go into some of the most dangerous areas alongside our military, he said.

"Under the plan, all middle and high school students would be required to do 50 hours of community service, and it would establish a $4,000 per year tax credit for college students who volunteer for 100 hours of volunteer service."

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 05:00 PM (Srqga)

94 blankminde,
I fear the 'establishment' has some serious weapons that will make us shit our pants.
..and I wouldn't put it past them to use it against Americans.
They are NOT going to give up their power. No.Fucking.Way.
Forget about term limits..don't even go there.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:00 PM (/i4dU)

95 You make an excellent point. Never in the history of the world has a light cavalry been seen that would compare to waves of pickups full of furious rednecks. Seriously, establishments don't often beat guerrillas. Except that one time in Syria...

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 09:48 PM (MU8lS)

On opening day of deer season in Michigan, 700,000 men with high-powered rifles get up early and wander into the woods. Save China, that's the largest army in the world.

And most guerilla organizations aren't full of: A)ex-military B)lifelong shooters, and C)guys with chemistry degrees and bitchy wives who make them spend a lot of time in the garage with pR0n and Valu-Rite.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at February 07, 2009 05:01 PM (HaieA)

96 Oh Noes!! Nots the agricultural spezialistz!!

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at February 07, 2009 05:02 PM (HaieA)

97 sickinmass: Thanks for the thread link; you were on quite a tear! I think you're right on a lot of counts; many of these are already being introduced or discussed in house/senate. Old boy scout saying is worth repeating: be prepared.

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 05:02 PM (YQY6G)

98 sickinmass~

Stay calm and write and call!

With all due respect, that is what I was saying to another commenter. You and I agree completely. Maybe you misread my comments?

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 05:03 PM (Srqga)

ROTFLMAO! Need the laugh; thx Herr!

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 05:04 PM (YQY6G)

100 I need a drink.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:05 PM (/i4dU)

101 ditto! Herr!

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:06 PM (/i4dU)

102 My fellow morons. I have been lucky all my life and welcome change and the new doors that open. That said.. the change I see coming unsettles me, that's all.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:09 PM (/i4dU)

103 Duesa, I hear what you say. I have no intention of placing myself or my family in harms way, but to be silent about many of the programs Teh One is trying to fuck us on without the courtesy of a kiss is just wrong. I often think that our silence as conservatives has come back to bite us, and hard. No, I won't be so vocal as to be one of the first to the camps, but at least I'll have the pleasure of seeing a few fellow morons once I am there ;-)

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 05:11 PM (YQY6G)

104 @95, sickinmass~ you are absolutely right. Americans, as well as the rest of the world, have no idea what the globalists have access to. Passive non-compliance will only be bliss for awhile, but ignorance is not.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 05:11 PM (Srqga)

105 Cyn~

Many are finally waking up to the chainsaw whittling away our freedoms, which is a good thing. If I have no other alternative but to fight, I will also be one of the morons that walks into their stealth trap of "government protection". I just prefer to simply say to the system, "No sir, I am not doing this anymore" without making a big deal of it for now, as long as I can. It's all good.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 05:17 PM (Srqga)

106

It's all good.

Agreed!

Must call it a night. Thanks to all!

Posted by: Cyn at February 07, 2009 05:19 PM (YQY6G)

107 I truly believe things will be OK. Something is balancing this act and I believe it's GOOD.
To weather the storm, I am prepared with PLENTY in storage just in case.
That's my way of protesting. Enough for neighbors and a few morons too.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:25 PM (/i4dU)

108 The underlying problem is not the jackasses infesting the halls of power. We are the government here. The underlying problem is our fellow dipshit citizens who elect these fuckers.

Remember that if the shit hits the fan. You won't be able to get anywhere near the assholes who fancy themselves our overlords, but quite a few of the fucktards whose votes gave them carte blanche for this anal rape of a porkulus bill live right in my neighborhood, and I'm sure plenty live in yours, too.

Should chaos ever come to reign, see to it that they get their just deserts, and things will be that much better when order returns. If you are not willing to do this, keep in mind that these are the subhumans who made POTUS of the monster who, as an Illinois state senator, voted against BAIPA.

Posted by: MikeO at February 07, 2009 05:30 PM (4sSHg)

109 Mike, WOAH!
The dipshit citizens elected who was elected for us. MSN controlled by globalists gave us the choices. That's in the past.
The good news is this: When the shit hits the fan the subhumans and fucktards will freak out and kill each other. WE will keep our heads and survive. Some serious
popcorn time. Stock up on matches so you can pop, K?

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:40 PM (/i4dU)

110 Posted by: MikeO at February 07, 2009 10:30 PM (4sSHg)

Now, now. The Christian thing to do is to feed the hungry and clothe the naked no matter their political persuasion.

I understand however that the Good Book is silent on making them dance with a pig and pissing in their hats, so we have that going for us.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at February 07, 2009 05:42 PM (HaieA)

111 God will sort it all out- Marge Simpson

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:46 PM (/i4dU)

112 Of the thousands of grotesque misunderstandings people suffer from: That the "balance of power" between the branches of government is to ensure they each get enough power - or hookers, or pie, or whatever.

The balance is there to keep them from fucking us over. The balance that has been continually eroded, naturally.

Just a random thought.

Posted by: Merovign at February 07, 2009 05:46 PM (or0jG)

113 112 God will sort it all out- Marge Simpson

Thankfully.

Posted by: Duesa at February 07, 2009 05:49 PM (Srqga)

114 The balance is there to keep them from fucking us over.

Actually, I slung that in there on a bet over a piece of tail. I won, too.

Posted by: James Madison at February 07, 2009 05:54 PM (HaieA)

115 I am shocked at how many people on this planet have their heads up their ass.
Ignorance is NOT bliss in these times, IMHO.

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 05:56 PM (/i4dU)

116 the change they seek is to be in power forever and Zero wants to be Dictator of the world. Cripple us financially and then cripple us militarily. That's the only thing transparent about this administration

Posted by: hit them all up at February 07, 2009 05:59 PM (hphNR)

117 Cloward Piven + Alinsky's Radical Rules. Throw in a little bit of socialism and communism philosphy and here we are. It's not just 1 thing, it's a combination of hting

Posted by: hit them all up at February 07, 2009 06:02 PM (hphNR)

118 Cockholsters all of them.
^{Had to get that word on this thread. AoS rules.}

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 06:03 PM (/i4dU)

119 blankminde@44: what would the military actually do if told to round up capitalists/die-hard conservatives? The military is overwhelmingly conservative and an order like that would be akin to an order to shoot yourself.

Yeah, but supposing the powers that be threaten to ruin your life, blacklist you so you can never get a job again, threaten your family, etc. You think all those Nazi soldiers really hated Jews so much?

If you're a despot, the name of the game is to get everyone by the balls--or more precisely, by their kids: either threaten to take their kids away from 'em, or make it impossible for them to earn a livelihood to support their kids. Unless a person has absolutely no family nor possessions, you can pretty much force them to do whatever you want.

I know the military is different from the police, but I've never gotten over the sight of policemen dragging off peaceful people praying outside abortion clinics. I'd always figured most policemen must be pro-life--but either I'm naive, or it's just pretty damn rare for people in uniform to NOT follow orders.

You're in the service, tell me what YOU would do in the scenario of total meltdown in this country, imposition of martial law, and corralling of citizens into the aforementioned detention centers.

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at February 07, 2009 06:10 PM (yUBsp)

120 @78:
Save the economy, Buy guns and ammo!

Thread winner.

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at February 07, 2009 06:20 PM (yUBsp)

121 MikeO@109 and sickinmass@110

I've often thought that BAIPA should have been a touchstone--an indicator--something that would send up red flags to any sensible, decent person. Killing born-alive babies is bad enough, but it also should have POINTED beyond that issue to other things, too---i.e., it should have signalled to people that Barack Obama is NOT like you or me, he is not a normal person mentally or morally, there is antifreeze running in his veins.

And I get so furious with my "dipshit fellow citizens" for voting for the monster.

But then I realize that the vast majority of them did not KNOW about this issue, because the MSM on which they rely for information made sure it was swept under the rug before anyone could see it.

Fuck the MSM, and fuck that communist creep Obama.

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at February 07, 2009 06:50 PM (yUBsp)

122 @120
If this country melts down, I will probably be in the middle east somewhere. It would take a perpetual war for any of this to happen - not something like Afghanistan or Iraq, but more like WWI or WWII. Oceania, Eastasia, and Eurasia and all that jazz.

If I have it my way, I'll grab my family and anyone with any sense and head for Wyoming or Montana. I'd be happy to set up in the mountains for 20 or 30 years and allow nature to take its course. I suppose I would be pretty happy leading patrols for a group of refugees in the Rocky Mountains, and if that is what the cost of freedom is then so be it.

Posted by: blankminde at February 07, 2009 07:09 PM (sDC66)

123 Blankminde i am afraid thats our plan at this house. when my guy deployed, he made me run thru various different scenarios and planed our responses. we knew how this would go. i hope we have time to relocate to the mountains. I have horses and know cattle and horses and animal raising stuff. but i do think we have time. its moving too fast. my best plan in that case is run to a base and hope i will be protected from the worst of it there.

Posted by: Karagush at February 07, 2009 07:17 PM (wGdPp)

124 God Bless Us All

Posted by: sickinmass at February 07, 2009 07:18 PM (/i4dU)

125
#123 & 124:

Wherever you go, don't forget to bring tin foil. Lots of it.

Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at February 07, 2009 08:03 PM (uSkjk)

126 well if you do put on your tinfoil hat, remember to put your feet in a bucket of cold salt water while its adjusted to help the conductivity. Seriously it sounds crazy. but if someone told me this was gonna happen to my country i would have laughed in your face four years ago.

Posted by: Karagush at February 07, 2009 08:44 PM (wGdPp)

127

It appears the lunatics have overrun the asylum on this thread. Less than three weeks into Obama's administration, we already see some people suffering from an advanced case of ODS.

If this level of paranoia keeps up, Ace may need to rename this site "The Daily Ace."

Posted by: sauropod at February 07, 2009 09:01 PM (D7bS1)

128 If this level of paranoia keeps up, Ace may need to rename this site "The Daily Ace."

I agree there's a paranoid tone here, but c'mon. Three weeks of Obama have brought us some pretty amazing shit, none of it good. There's an actual, real, predictable goofball socialist attempted takeover of the US occurring right now. Foolishness has reached critical mass just as the charismatic lifetime commie cool black friend gets elected and remakes the country into the DMV.

I'm basically toasting the Republic and its remarkable run tonight, so. . .here's mud in your eye!

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at February 07, 2009 09:45 PM (gljje)

129

I've been reading this thread and I'm astounded that nobody has mentioned fluoridated water yet.

Posted by: icus at February 08, 2009 05:21 AM (Ozf6a)

130 I love the drive-bys with catch words like "Tin foil hats", "paranoia", and "lunatic". No solid debate attempting to prove anything to the contrary, just a mention of "Now that Obama is in office..." as if that is such a big deal any more.

As far as the fluoridated water is concerned, you're right. It doesn't just make you docile, but it erodes your bones and teeth. They aren't done, yet. Prozac is being added to "compliment" the barium being dropped in the chem trails.

Posted by: Duesa at February 08, 2009 06:09 AM (Srqga)

131 Foolishness has reached critical mass just as the charismatic lifetime commie cool black friend gets elected and remakes the country into the DMV.

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that. Here's to the Republic.

Posted by: Duesa at February 08, 2009 06:15 AM (Srqga)

132 sauropod@128: Less than three weeks into Obama's administration, we already see some people suffering from an advanced case of ODS.

Excuse me, but some of us have been sounding the alarms about this guy for well over a year now. Anyone who wasn't slavishly relying on the feckless MSM for all their information could see the writing on the wall a LONG time ago. My loathing for the Wicked One didn't start three weeks ago. What did it for me was finding out last spring about his opposition, on four occasions, to legislation that would have banned the practice of leaving born-alive, breathing, squirming infants to die in dirty-linen closets in Illinois hospitals. That was when I knew for sure we were dealing with a sadistic monster.

It didn't get any better from there. Bill Ayers, ACORN, Khaled Mansour, Rashid Khalidi, the never-seen birth certificate, the commie mommy, Indonesia, Pakistan, Frank Marshall Davis, Tony Rezko, getting all his opponents wiped off the ballot, shooting the finger in public while being televised to millions of people at Hillary and then at John McCain, lying in the debates, saying that the only vote he cast as a Senator that he later regretted was the one to let Terri Schiavo's parents have a fair hearing in court while her ex-husband was trying to kill her, dissing his white grandmother who raised him from the age of 10, "my Muslim faith," "above my pay grade," and on and on and on and on. Not to mention the weird creepy cult worship on the part of his fans.

The guy is a mentally unbalanced, sadistic, petty, narcissistic, megalomaniacal, cruel, morally challenged liar with obvious totalitarian impulses. Those of us who were not drinking the Kool-Aid have known this for a LONG time. The MSM froze out our voices.

If you haven't read it yet, you really need to read "Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer," by an Iranian-American who witnessed the rise of Ayatollah Khomeini at first hand, and writes from the standpoint of psychiatry:
www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html.

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at February 08, 2009 09:15 AM (yUBsp)

133

Kathy from Kansas, all you've established is that your ODS started early. Nothing to brag about.

Obama is a slick politician who twists the truth when convenient. In this he differs not at all from most other politicians.

I love the drive-bys with catch words like "Tin foil hats", "paranoia", and "lunatic". No solid debate attempting to prove anything to the contrary

The sane among us are supposed to spend time disproving the contention that UN troops will be brought into America to herd conservatives into detainment camps?

I don't think even the people who write this stuff really believe it. If they did, they wouldn't be hanging out on a blog, they'd be en route to a Caribbean island where they could hide until the Obamapocalypse is safely behind us.

Posted by: sauropod at February 08, 2009 10:40 AM (D7bS1)

134 Congressional democrats are simply too stupid and short sighted to cook up and execute a plan like this on their own. If it is what's going on, then someone like Soros, who has international scope pull, is pulling the strings of key people.

Of course being an explicit participant in such a plan entails a lot of personal risk too. All it takes is one mole in the right place to blow your cover and make you subject to a summary .308cal "retirement" by other folks who ain't down with that shit.

Don't get me wrong, there are "conspiracies" by various left wing groups, a lot of them in fact, but they operate mostly on the fringes and are populated with kooks.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 08, 2009 12:07 PM (Ygf78)

135 I'll believe it's a crises when they start ACTING like it's a crises -- not a freaking opportunity. This is some really really scary stuff.

Posted by: starboardhelm at February 08, 2009 12:11 PM (SgSfB)

136

Kathy from Kansas #133: You rock! The Obamapologists are the ones in denial. They'll wake up someday -- waaaay too late.

Posted by: starboardhelm at February 08, 2009 12:15 PM (SgSfB)

137

They'll wake up someday -- waaaay too late.

We'll wake up when we're herded into those urban detention centers! It'll happen any day now.

It's in Revelation, people!!!!!!1111!!!!

Posted by: sauropod at February 08, 2009 01:53 PM (D7bS1)

138 Would the voices lie to you?

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