Ace of Spades HQ

May 31, 2008

Snowball Earth (genghis)
— Open Blog

Uh, I dont even know where to begin:, but lets start at the top.

The rapid release of methane into the earth's atmosphere 635 million years ago caused runaway global warming, and may happen again in the near future, a new study reports.
The study, which appears in this week's edition of Nature provides an insight into what may happen to the earth's atmosphere if today's frozen methane deposits in Canada, Siberia and Alaska begin to thaw.
During the Cryogenian period (850-630 million years), earth was completely frozen over, with glaciers that crept down into the tropics and possibly even reached the equator.

We had a Cryogenian period? (For educational purposes, a period can mean any of the following: (1) A long time, (2) A little dot at the end of a sentence, and/or (3) Why youre sleeping on the couch tonight, you insensitive bastard .)

But after 155 million years of being in a deep freeze the earth warmed dramatically.
How this happened has been fiercely disputed, although all agree that the event changed the planet's climate system and ocean chemistry forever.
Scientists now point the finger at methane clathrates. These methane-rich ice deposits form under ice sheets at specific temperatures and pressures.

Spell-check helpfully informs me that clathrates is not an actual word, so Im guessing that the authors of the study misspelled it and were actually referring to this, which would make a lot more sense.

As the clathrates began to evaporate, they released methane, which helped trap more solar heat and warmed the planet.
This thawed more clathrates, fuelling further warming and so on, creating a vicious circle.
Methane is considered a prodigious greenhouse gas, being 30 times more efficient than CO2 in trapping solar heat.

Efficient. Now thats what I like to see in a greenhouse gas.

Artists depiction of a herd of Cryogenian period Mastodons. Sadly extinct as a result of their own flatulence.

Posted by: Open Blog at 04:17 AM | Comments (80)
Post contains 327 words, total size 2 kb.

1 This is why we dare not utilize recently discovered frozen methane deposits.

Posted by: Tinian at May 31, 2008 04:30 AM (1Mq7K)

2 Global climate change that was not caused by humans? Heresy I say!

Posted by: Anoni Moose at May 31, 2008 04:37 AM (txZij)

3 Invent a car that runs on methane, and tap that shit. Driving more would 'save the planet.'

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at May 31, 2008 04:45 AM (eKANB)

4 fuelling further warming and so on, creating a vicious circle

Yet some miraculous force counteracted this vicious circle somewhere along the way and kept the oceans from boiling off.

A little Climate Model 101 on the linked article: The models that predict catastrophic AGW don't get there with CO₂ alone. They rely on feedbacks (the vicious circle) to get over half the predicted disastrous warming that will fry us all unless we repent at the altar of Reverend Al.

The models suggest that feedbacks are net positive, but the real world doesn't work this way. The earth's climate is relatively stable, and stable systems are overwhelmingly dominated by net negative feedbacks (hence the, ummm, stability). If the feedbacks were net positive, the climate would have spiraled out of control in one direction or the other a long time ago.

Fundamentally flawed models provide 100% of the rationale for committing economic suicide to save Gaia *sigh*

Posted by: Andy at May 31, 2008 04:45 AM (E0eIc)

I shall not rest until balance is restored and the whole world is covered in ice again!

Posted by: el gordo at May 31, 2008 04:46 AM (u3JWL)

6 1. genghis - ha! you should blog more often. You're good at it.

2. Look at Nurse Cheri with that big ol' dictionary. You're such a cute little geek. Yes you are....

Posted by: me at May 31, 2008 04:55 AM (qxm5a)

7 The Cryogenian RAWKED--skiing in Rio. Just think, Brazilian Snowbunnies.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 31, 2008 04:57 AM (hzJZs)

8 The cult of the global climate change deniers. The cult of the holocaust deniers The cult of the 9/11 deniers The cult of the 2000 Florida recount deniers The cult of evolution deniers These are the ones that bravely speak out against the massive hoaxes forced on the sheeple by MSM !!!!

Posted by: John Ryan at May 31, 2008 04:57 AM (TcoRJ)

Don't rely on spell checkers to verify the existence of a word. Check here for a commentary on "clathrates," methane clathrates, to be exact.

Of course, among the scientifically educated all that business about methane being an efficient "greenhouse gas" has been well known for a long time.

Posted by: George at May 31, 2008 05:00 AM (ywpsP)

Look at Nurse Cheri with that big ol' dictionary. You're such a cute little geek. Yes you are....

Dictionary? I hadn't noticed.

_{I guess that's not where I was looking}.

Posted by: captkidney at May 31, 2008 05:00 AM (rK6wZ)

Seriously guys, when I fart in my house, it does get a little warmer but then I open a window and it's fine.

We just need a window.

Or a fan.

Posted by: captkidney at May 31, 2008 05:02 AM (rK6wZ)

12 It must be fun to be one of those GW scientists, what with playing what-if games all day long. And every what-if always brings them back to man made GW, no matter how silly or far-fetched the hypothesis may be. In their world they never, ever come out on the wrong end.

Posted by: Ken at May 31, 2008 05:06 AM (D02O9)

evidence of rapid thawing comes from hundreds of marine sediment samples

In other words, let's all get into a panic over fish shit.

Posted by: compos mentis at May 31, 2008 05:15 AM (pzGnb)

14 Who are doing these studies and whom is giving them the grants to fudge the data and offer up fruad and lies and according to some were suppost to be having a new ice age and earth will be like the planet ALPHA 177 witch a comfortible night time tempeture of 120 degrees below zero

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at May 31, 2008 05:19 AM (878xL)

15 creating a vicious circle I haven't bothered to read it in context, because I'm a moron and can't be bothered to actually read the article, but doesn't it sound like she's complaining a lot about this horrible, "vicious" cycle? The cycle that, you know, made life on earth as we know it, and allowed humans and mammals to even come into being? Poor, poor Gaia! If it weren't for this, she never would have been burdened by these evil humans!

Posted by: Guy in Utah at May 31, 2008 05:26 AM (V3WTz)

A little Climate Model 101 on the linked article

The scientists that took this class are the ones nobody will listen to. This isn't science anymore, it's just time to make a buck. And something for people to worship.

Posted by: roy at May 31, 2008 05:29 AM (oeMWm)

17 Was there supposed to be more here?

This post reads like it was cutoff in the middle.

Posted by: chad at May 31, 2008 06:06 AM (WNcvq)

18 I say we DARE , yes DARE to exploit these clathrates. At least we wont need to bother the Porcupine Caribou mating rituals in ANWAR, and most clathrates dont even have a computer anyhow, so who cares about THEM?

Posted by: Rick554 at May 31, 2008 06:20 AM (XWJh5)

19 There's really nothing new to say... the acolytes of Al Gore are true believers, and can fit any data, no matter how contrary they might seem, into the conclusions they set out to arrive at.

Posted by: krakatoa at May 31, 2008 06:22 AM (/FUhT)

wesleyen.edu

Clathrates are also called gas hydrates. Hydrates were discovered in 1810 by Sir Humphrey Davy, and were considered to be a laboratory curiosity.

Posted by: maverick muse at May 31, 2008 06:24 AM (1cbR0)

21 Love these scientific theories. It's what happens at the intersection of the need for grant money, a few bong hits, and the scientific community's inherent inability to utter the phrase: "I don't know."

Posted by: red speck at May 31, 2008 06:25 AM (imYOK)

22 Okay, the AT-AT mastadon photo is hysterical!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 31, 2008 06:27 AM (xQ52y)

@Tinian,

I don't know how old you are, Tinian, but you're full of it. Methane hydrate (I give the full name because there are other kinds of clathrates besides the water kinds -I did some research chemistry with crown ether clathrates in my senior year at the University of Alabama Class of 1979) clathrate deposits have been known for years (exploitation of them were mentioned in the 70s "energy crises") and they spontaneously outgas regularly. Our exploitation of them wouldn't change the fact of spontaneous outgassing. There are some who speculate that methane outgassing from clathrates off the coast of Florida has caused repeated and unexpected sinking of ships (consider what a big outgassing could result in if there were a thunderstorm in the area when ships were sailing by, for instance).

Posted by: Hank Rearden at May 31, 2008 06:31 AM (MNtTt)

"May happen." "If ... begins to thaw"

That is a lot of weasel words. I can play like that too; If the sun gets hotter then the earth will burn up! The water on the surface of our planet may evaporate and if it does we will be very thirsty.

See, it doesn't take any science at all to make up scary stuff!

If we continue to flush our toilets then the world may fill up with shit. It's science, man!

Posted by: Steve at May 31, 2008 06:34 AM (lv+sJ)

25 I don't know how old you are, Tinian, but you're full of it.

Don't have a cow, dude. Enviro-wackjobs have already declared methane hydrate deposits off limits because of global warming. I was just mocking them.

I did some research chemistry with crown ether clathrates in my senior year at the University of Alabama Class of 1979...

Meh -- I understand Ted Kennedy did decades of research on Crown Royal clathrates.

Posted by: Tinian at May 31, 2008 06:38 AM (1Mq7K)

26 Paleogeologists are really creative trying to explain what they really haven't the slightest clue about. The longer into the past it gets, the less they know and the more they start to just guess and invent about. Scientists do this a lot, but when they do it in their field, other scientists understand this (at least, the capable ones). Reporters don't. They think this is all proven, absolute fact and the mighty prophets of Science the all-being god of our times have spoken.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 31, 2008 06:47 AM (7QZfU)

Since we can scrub CO2 out of the air and we can't drill for oil, it's just another way of furthering the notion that humans cause this global warming/climate change by just adapting to the situation and mving on.

I say tax humans as they come out of the womb and into an early grave to save us all. That's the only way to make these elitist, efete snobs happy.

Posted by: Fred Hailar at May 31, 2008 06:55 AM (Z1tn1)

Contrary to the contrarians, I relish suckling at the bountiful teat of Mother Gaia. And if on occasion, she wishes to fart under the covers, - that is her right. Who am I to question her maternal proclivities?

...600 million years ago? Hah, most of these geniuses can't even remember how many times they wiped their arses yesterday, and now they're predicting the "near future" based on a fantasy land 600 million years ago?

Does even the Pope have this much faith?

Posted by: Pull my Finger at May 31, 2008 07:14 AM (gjLdu)

29 The cult of the global climate change deniers.
The cult of the holocaust deniers
The cult of the 9/11 deniers
The cult of the 2000 Florida recount deniers
The cult of evolution deniers

Global climate change - yes it happens, cyclically, over eons. Is mankind responsible? no scientific evidence as yet.

Holocaust - undeniable historical fact.

9-11 - undeniable historical fact (and we know who did it - most of their names rhyme with bohammed).

2000 recount deniers - hard to figure out what the dumb fuck means by this. Were there recounts? yes, undeniably. Did Bush win them all? yes, without a doubt. Is that what dumbfuck is talking about? I doubt it.

Evolution - a useful theory for now, but unlike GW religionists, real science never stops questioning, is never "settled."

John Ryan is a retarded douchebag who mixes apples, oranges and bananas? There is visible evidence, from his own words and twisted mind.

Posted by: joe at May 31, 2008 07:26 AM (YcIuv)

30 In other words, Mother Nature has a built-in corrective measure to cool the globe from an overheated condition. I wonder what entity thought that up in the first place, hmmm?

Posted by: crazy at May 31, 2008 07:39 AM (Q8mU+)

31 As a scientist, I have to say these AGW nitwits are causing more damage to Human progress than would the climate change they say is near.

The Sun is entering a period of low sunspot activity. This state induces significant cooling here. The clock is ticking and the AGW nits know time is running out for them. They need to get this crap cemented into legislation very soon, before the curtain is pulled back.

I hope, when this is all over, we learn well from it and use the lessons to build a better society. A society with a lot more people who know the fundamentals of science and who have better judgment and courage.

But, I'm not holding my breath. This AGW foolishness is just our nonsense. In ten years there will be another crisis that demands we sacrifice freedom and prosperity or the whole planet will perish. Maybe it will involve a threat tp the Earth's magnetic field caused by beer and hot babes dressed as cheerleaders.

Posted by: eman at May 31, 2008 08:15 AM (WWkFI)

32 Biggest laugh of the week when my mouse paused over your explanitory link. Thanks! .

Posted by: OregonGuy at May 31, 2008 08:16 AM (CLAqh)

John Ryan is a retarded douchebag who mixes apples, oranges and bananas?

What a coincidence, so do I! (You did mean in his ass, right?)

Posted by: erg at May 31, 2008 08:24 AM (f7A+e)

34 As a scientist, I have to say these AGW nitwits are causing more damage to Human progress than would the climate change they say is near.

The Sun is entering a period of low sunspot activity. This state induces significant cooling here. The clock is ticking and the AGW nits know time is running out for them. They need to get this crap cemented into legislation very soon, before the curtain is pulled back.

I hope, when this is all over, we learn well from it and use the lessons to build a better society. A society with a lot more people who know the fundamentals of science and who have better judgment and courage.

Posted by: eman at May 31, 2008 01:15 PM (WWkFI)

Wow. Here's more scientific literacy for us all to enjoy...WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!111!!!!

http://armageddononline.tripod.com

These guys can't decide whether we're gonna die from massive cooling following megavolcano eruption, or melting of the icecaps, or a tsunami hitting NY, or virus pandemic, or nuclear war...but it's all SCIENCE. Well, it's as scientific as AGW.

Posted by: funky chicken at May 31, 2008 08:55 AM (I+jPP)

35 AGW : liberals :: "intelligent design" : conservatives

Posted by: funky chicken at May 31, 2008 09:10 AM (I+jPP)

There was a show on the Discovery Channel about the Bermuda Triangle being an area with large methane gas bubbles. A link regarding the theory here:

http://http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/22/1066631498889.html

Since methane gas is common with oil deposits the solution to this threatening AGW catastrophe might be to have Cuba lease the Triangle area to China to drill for oil. While they're at it, whoever is elected President will probably be happy to lease the Gulf of Mexico, the coasts, and ANWR to the Chinese too. They'd probably be happy to sell to us any oil they don't keep for $140/barrel, and save us from the evil American capitalist oil companies.

I hope that link works if anybody tries it. I'm unfamiliar with how things work here.

Posted by: Publicserf at May 31, 2008 09:36 AM (5deGX)

37 So we're all gonna die because of 600 million year old frozen dinosaur farts?

Bummer.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 31, 2008 09:43 AM (c55NW)

Oh, R'lyeh?

Posted by: N. O'Brain at May 31, 2008 09:51 AM (wYcGz)

"...clathrate deposits have been known for years (exploitation of them were mentioned in the 70s "energy crises") and they spontaneously outgas regularly."

Wait.

Hold on there just a minute, mister.

Gaia farts????!???!!!??

Posted by: N. O'Brain at May 31, 2008 09:54 AM (wYcGz)

40 We don't hear more about methane because it kind of symbolises Eastern agricultural collectivism wheras CO₂ represents Western industrial capitalism. Also, it's more volatile, which means that it dosen't stay in the atmosphere as long. It reacts with oxygen and creates water vapor, another gas that's more efficient as a greenhouse agent than CO₂.

Posted by: Dave M at May 31, 2008 10:49 AM (6CHou)

41 It reacts with oxygen and creates water vapor

Indeed. That reaction also produces carbon dioxide. The CO2 and water are converted into carbohydrates and Oxygen by plants. Animals eat the plants and breathe in the Oxygen. Then they exhale CO2, piss out water, and fart out methane.

Gaia loves cycles.

Posted by: eman at May 31, 2008 11:05 AM (WWkFI)

42 So Earth equals Hoth? Sweet. Now I just gotta go find where the battle took place. Wasn't it in Scandi territory?

Posted by: CDR M at May 31, 2008 11:59 AM (TJoU6)

If this stuff has already been posted on AOSHQ Im sorry for wasting time, space, and bandwith. Anyway, here goes:

If theres global coldening it wont be due to the valiant efforts of the Goreacle and the suckers who signed Kyoto. It will be due to decreased sunspot activity. I found out about the Maunder Minimum from Starmans post at Coulter Chat.

Heres an article dated 2/7/2008 on reduced sun spot activity. It speculates that well be entering a Little Ice Age in 20-30 years based on predicted low sunspot activity.

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175

If another Maunder Minimum event happens as predicted, the affect is described here under Marginal Lands:

http://www.eh-resources.org/timeline/timeline_lia.html

Heres a research paper that makes a convincing case that we should invest in a good winter coat. Extensive footnotes to say the least:

http://www.schulphysik.de/klima/landscheidt/iceage.htm

A picture of the sun, still no sunspots:

http://www.spaceweather.com/

In summary- the Earth is not a closed system. It gets additional energy from the sun, so the suns energy output has the most dramatic affect on us (only an egoist or narcissist could believe otherwise.) More sunspots equal more radiated energy resulting in stronger winds and more distributed heat, aka global warming. Fewer sunspots equal less energy and global coldening. Were going to have a solar cycle with fewer sunspots.

Safe prediction- when the cooling starts the Goreacle will congratulate himself for a job well done. There wont be any carbon offset refunds. With the ice cap expansion the polar bears will migrate southward, eating Canadians as they go. They make it as far as Detroit, where theyll face extinction by the only adversary tougher than them- people who exercise their second amendment rights.

Funny thing- I told my precocious 16 year-old daughter about the Maunder Minimum. She was unimpressed, Dad, I did a report on that in 6^th grade. Shes certain that global warming is bad science. A high-school sophomore thats smart enough not to buy into the hysteria, maybe theres hope after all.

BTW, when inserting the links this time a "Special Characters" box would pop up. Being a moron, I had no idea what to do with it.

Posted by: Publicserf at May 31, 2008 01:38 PM (5deGX)

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