1 You mean that bill that will raise costs, lower service and that Harvard gave an F?

Debate over.

2 One has to wonder if it takes this much arm twisting and deal cutting just to debate the bill, what will it cost to actually get a cloture vote.

3 You mean that bill that they don't want you to read or know the actual cost?

4 I'm just a bill, up on Capitol Hill...

5

Every now and then, my sister (age 22, LOTS of health problems, wouldn't vote for Obama if you held a gun to her head) likes to wave at the TV news and say "Goodbye, old life!"

I have to say, my gut feeling tends to agree with her.

6

This may actually be a good sign. It appears that Reid's first approach, you don't have to vote for it, just vote for cloture, isn't going to work.

Something tells me, right now, Blanche Lincoln is at home with a "cold".

7 GALLUP BS UPDATE:

As predicted yesterday, even though the 3 day moving average of Obama's Approval Rating dropped 3 points on Gallup to 50% yesterday (which would indicate one day polling of around 48%), today, once again, Obama has been firewalled at 50%.  No change.

This means that in other words, Obama must have polled at least 3 to 4 points better yesterday than he did day before in order to stay at 50 after falling 3 points in one day - highly unlikely.

Every time it is the same game.  Obama falls like a rock to 50% then hits the Gallup Firewall.

8
What about Sen Coburn's promise to read the entire bill on the floor?

a) Can he do it?

b) If he can do it, will he do it?

9

Good.  I don't think it'll happen, but I still maintain that keeping this bill from hitting the floor is the only way to derail this monstrosity.  Even a possible trimmed down version gets the foot in the door, and heaven helps us then.

Reid can arm twist all he wants.  He won't get 60 votes until he produces the CBO scoring and gives Senators 72 hrs to digest it.  I'd hope some of the Senators would also withhold voting for it to come to the floor until the CMS has their shot at it.  One can hope.

10 If it gets to debate, it will pass. Needs fewer votes to pass than to get to debate.

11 Tom Daschle?  Tom Daschle?!? 

Yes, to convince Senators to proceed with a really unpopular bill, send Tom Daschle, who got voted out of office as Majority Leader for championing really unpopular initiatives.

Yes, Tom Daschle should reassure all those Senators who're scared of losing their jobs.

12

8  goforitbillbelichik: That would be awesomesauce. I would totally tune in to C-SPAN for that.

Although I think someone being dragged from the floor by force because they refused to stop reading would be even more effective.

13 Bullshit. This story is a way to get hardworking Democrats who care about you "overcoming the GOP" in the news. This shit is passed. And however many Rs it takes to get it, they're in.

14 When does the nuclear option fit in here? That is after debate, or after the cloture vote, right? Or does the nuclear option replace the cloture vote?

15 Yeah, as tempting as it is to want to see it barely make it to the floor just so Coburn can have it read, repeatedly, and hung on the Democrats' necks, if the opportunity is there to simply kill the health care takeover here, we have to take it.

And then we can get back to more important things, like discussing Sarah Palin's new book.

16
I reckon it would take at least 64 hours (nonstop) to read the entire bill, which is almost 3 days.

17

When does the nuclear option fit in here? That is after debate, or after the cloture vote, right? Or does the nuclear option replace the cloture vote?

Here is how the process works. First, there is a vote to take it to the floor. That needs 60. Then, you need a cloture vote to cut off debate. That needs 60. Then it is to the vote - which takes 50. The "nuclear" option is if you claimed it was a spending bill (reconcilliation) which only takes 50 and is not subject to cloture.

18
50 or 51?

19 What is the partisan weighting on Gallup these days, anyway?  Or what is the mechanism for the firewall, barring outright fabrication?

20 By gum, we're gonna pass something!

21

50 or 51?

50 - in case of tie, the President of the Senate (The Vice-President of the United States) cast the tie breaking vote. So, in this case, Biden would get to vote. Know, assuming he doesn't get confused, he would vote for the bill.  Again, assuming he doesn't get confused.

22 Eleventy billion!

23 50 plus Biden.

24 I'm thinking that Daschle could drop by the IRS and pay his taxes.  You know... two birds with one stone.

25

And then we can get back to more important things, like discussing Sarah Palin's new book.

Its horrible, she is horrible, oh, she wants to set this country back 200 years. Have I read it....no, why do you ask?

26 Harry's sorry predicament was caused in large measure by Sarah Palin's blisteringly effective "death panel" attack. Thank you Sarah.

27 I'm gonna vote no.  We were just pulling your all's leg, God love us.

28

I live in Las Vegas, was here when Billy had his wang in Monica's face. The morning the news broke, Harry Reid said, on the radio, that "If it's true, Clinton should 'step' down." resign. Four hours later the weasel held another press conference, expressing the idea that it was probably not true, and He was 100%behind the Pres. It was a right wing conspirecy. This was after the White House got through with him. He is a lying weasel-dick, twit, party hack of a man  I am working as had as I can to get his ass thrown out of our state. He has done NOTHING for our state. But you should see the re-election campagin crap we get in the mail everyday. I call bullshit. Throw him and all his ilk out!

 

29

Harry's sorry predicament was caused in large measure by Sarah Palin's blisteringly effective "death panel" attack.

I think I also had a little something to do with it. 

30 IF THEY CAN GET IT ON THE FLOOR WITH DEBATE, THEY ONLY NEED 51 VOTES TO PASS IT.

THIS IS THE PUSH TO GET THE REFORM PASSED, BECAUSE IF THEY GET 60 VOTES HERE TO GET IT TO THE FLOOR, THEY DON'T NEED THEM ANY MORE.

ok?

31 Ah, Harry, you know how much this vote is gonna cost, don't cha?

32 50 plus Biden.

If that's the case, it may not survive a filibuster.   Need a super-majority to break that.

33 How do you ask a Senator to be the last man (or woman) to die for a mistake?

34 Here is how the process works. First, there is a vote to take it to the floor. That needs 60.

Not exactly true.

In order to end debate in the committee and bring it to a vote to release it to the floor it takes 10 votes, one of which must be a member of the minority party.  They already have that with one of the ME sisters who voted for it in the committee.

One the committee releases it to the floor all it takes is the Majority leader scheduling it.

Then it will take 60 votes to cut off debate if the minority party decides they are going to filibuster.

I don't understand what this entire article is about. The healthscam bill has already been voted out of the committee.

35 IF THEY CAN GET IT ON THE FLOOR WITH DEBATE, THEY ONLY NEED 51 VOTES TO PASS IT.

THIS IS THE PUSH TO GET THE REFORM PASSED, BECAUSE IF THEY GET 60 VOTES HERE TO GET IT TO THE FLOOR, THEY DON'T NEED THEM ANY MORE.

Yeah, but if they don't pass it, Republicans will never again control Congress.

36

IF THEY CAN GET IT ON THE FLOOR WITH DEBATE, THEY ONLY NEED 51 VOTES TO PASS IT.

No - you have a cloture vote which requires 60 votes. See Senate Rule 22. Or go here: http://tinyurl.com/yffx75y

37
Which one of Drew's four posts will Ace also post?

a) Crap & Trade
b) Chinese Obama T-Shirts
c) Holder, KSM, and Cowards
d) this one about the health care bill

38

One the committee releases it to the floor all it takes is the Majority leader scheduling it.

Then it will take 60 votes to cut off debate if the minority party decides they are going to filibuster.

I don't understand what this entire article is about. The healthscam bill has already been voted out of the committee.

This process is required because the bill was not reported out of a committee. Remember, 2 committee's passed a bill and then Reid, Dodd and Baucus constructed a 3rd bill out of the 2. That is why you are having a vote to debate the bill, because the bill before the Senate is not a bill coming out of committee, it is coming out of Reid's office.

39

O/T: What a fucking joke. close = several weeks

– Obama said in an interview with CNN on Wednesday he is "very close" to a decision on boosting troop levels in Afghanistan and would make an announcement "in the next several weeks."

40

Bullshit. This story is a way to get hardworking Democrats who care about you "overcoming the GOP" in the news. This shit is passed. And however many Rs it takes to get it, they're in.

Oh really? Then why didn't this crapola pass in the heady days of Porkulus? It's not like they haven't been working for socialist medicine for years before Jugear Messiah.

41

"I think we're together as a caucus."

Strangely, I saw that out of the corner of my eye and read "circus."

42 e)All of the above

43 Only in NYC would useful idiots put a rapist next door to the victim then pride themselves about how they show the world their compassion.

I feel violated and raped all over again; I cannot wait to get the hell out of this miserable freak show called NYC.

Mayor Mommy-Nanny could have said NO but he cares more about protecting rapists than he does for those who have been raped.

Dear NYC FREAKS-

I lived here for 20 years, paid a shit-load of taxes, put up with endless lairs wearing smiley-faces and when I leave my only wish to you is may you forever rot away in your own freak show sewer.

Sincerely
a former brain-dead liberal whose veil of provincial myopia slipped away while  watching the WTC crumble into ash on 9-11-2001.

44

37

He will post that the Republicans only hope of winning the house and senate in 2010 would be to let this and cap and trade pass.

/

45 That is why you are having a vote to debate the bill, because the bill before the Senate is not a bill coming out of committee, it is coming out of Reid's office ass.

FIFY

46 Posted by: Mallamutt at November 18, 2009 01:33 PM (V9SYy)

After I read the entire story I figured it must be something like that.  It went back into a committee to combine it with other bills. In order to get it back out of comittee again he is back to needing that single Republican vote again .

He'll get that, the ME sisters are always good for one more back stab.  How's that big tent working for all you squishies?

47 syn, I'm sorry to hear that, there's way too much of it going around.  But, um, it's kind of a nonsequitor.

48

is more protective of Medicare,

Instead of slashing Medicare 500 billion, it will only slash Medicare 499 billion.

49 That is why you are having a vote to debate the bill, because the bill before the Senate is not a bill coming out of committee, it is coming out of Reid's office.

Coming out of Reid's office???  I didn't think they could do that. Wouldn't it have to go back to both of the original committees to get their approvall?

50 Medicare cuts are the work of evil Republicans who want old people to die....wait, what party is behind this again?

51 I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it! LET'S DEBATE IT!

52 That is why you are having a vote to debate the bill, because the bill before the Senate is not a bill coming out of committee, it is coming out of Reid's office ass.

FIFY

Posted by: Methos at November 18, 2009 01:38 PM (CoDwG)

Methos, are you saying there is room up Reid's ass for a bill, and his freaking head, too?

53
That's cute, Mr Pink.

But it's not like Michael Steele is out there tearing it up and attacking the Democrats on how they're screwing the people. So if these awful bills pass, which is out of our control and in entirely in the hands of the Democrats, at least we'll have something to beat the Democrats with.

If we go into 2010 with nothing more than campaign for Pandering for a Big Tent and our thumbs up our ass, we'll lose.

54 Methos, are you saying there is room up Reid's ass for a bill, and his freaking head, too?

It's like a TARDIS in there.

55

If we go into 2010 with nothing more than campaign for Pandering for a Big Tent and our thumbs up our ass, we'll lose.

You are absolutely right. However, the way to defeat bad leftist legislation is to OPPOSE it tooth and nail. If the Demunists still manage to get it through then they *own* it, and the consequences.

Your "rolling over and play dead" idea only disheartens our base even further. Our goal is to dishearten *their* base, not ours.

56

Methos, are you saying there is room up Reid's ass for a bill, and his freaking head, too?

It's like a TARDIS in there.

The thought of a London Police Box going up Reid's ass is hard to comprehend. Bawney Fwank's ass, sure, but......

57 I know what Bo don't know..chi-chi-chang-chang!

58 Ken Salazar, a former centrist U.S. Senator

I'm impressed by the deadpan delivery of that one.  Does anyone know when Ken Salazar was a centrist?  I recall him being a Senator; but I guess I never knew of him when he was a centrist... must have been in grade school or something.

Weird that they'd bring it up now.

59

I, quite frankly, am sick of all the false hope.  First wer heard that Pelosi couldn't muster a 218 margin.  Then she gets 220.  Then we find out that any Republican chicanery on the part of nullifying the Stupak amendment would have resulted in the 40-pro-life democrats going along with it anyway.

Then the thing passes the house.  This, of course starts all the "yeah-but" articles about how the Senate is a "different animal," a "much higher hurdle" and so forth.  Bullcrap. Coburn's threat to read the bill was touted as a "months-long," uncircumventable obstacle.  Now it's "three days" and could still be short-circuted, supposedly.

Of course, we've all blindly told ourselves that this ethereal "60" had to do with passage.  As far as I can tell it has to do with cutting off the filibuster.  After that, it's a "Jodie Foster on the pinball machine" moment. Plain and simple.  And we already learned about how certain senators feel about "history's call."  If they cut off debate, it's over.  If you think the Catholic Bishop's are going to short-circuit this over Stupak, think again.

Lieberman will caucus to cut off debate, and then safely vote against the Public option, along with eight other imperiled Dems.

 

Any of this talk about Reid's inability to muster the votes is garbage.  He'll get them.  Even if Collins and Snowe have to be the Rep. Cao of the Senate.

 

60

"If we go into 2010 with nothing more than campaign for Pandering for a Big Tent and our thumbs up our ass, we'll lose."

Who is this "we" you speak of? I am just a random guy on the internet. I do not control or have any sway with the R party or the D party and somehow I am pretty sure neither do you. Shit i

61

"If we go into 2010 with nothing more than campaign for Pandering for a Big Tent and our thumbs up our ass, we'll lose."

Who is this "we" you speak of? I am just a random guy on the internet. I do not control or have any sway with the R party or the D party and somehow I am pretty sure neither do you. Shit if

62

"If we go into 2010 with nothing more than campaign for Pandering for a Big Tent and our thumbs up our ass, we'll lose."

Who is this "we" you speak of? I am just a random guy on the internet. I do not control or have any sway with the R party or the D party and somehow I am pretty sure neither do you. Shit if I

63 Guys, see my Update/Clarification above.

This is not the usual 60 vote thing we watch. That's 'cloture' which comes at the end of the debate.

Reid is having trouble getting 60 to START the debate.

This awesome for us.

64
Of course I want to oppose it. Every single Republican in Congress should be seeking out every camera, every reporter they can find and trash these awful bills.

But in the end, the Republicans are powerless, and if the bills don't get to a vote, it will not be seen as a Republican victory. So let's make sure we have a good plan to beat the Democrats in 2010 besides "I'm not a Democrat, who, by the way, did not pass Cap & Trade."

65 Comment failure.

66 There is some moderately slick Axelturfing going on around here . . . must have cost a bit more than the usual wooden nickel a post . . . I wonder who they think is a'lurkin?

67 So, are the words "Will not fund abortion" even mentioned in the bill that Reid has not even read? Don't ask him, he will flip-flop his answer every 1/2 hour anyway.

68
we = the GOP; our side

for fuck's sake, is this what AoS has become?

this is no longer the smartest group of commenters in the blogosphere

69 Last night Greta had some senator on.  He said if they get the 60 votes and it goes to the floor then it will go to comittee and then it will be voted in.  He said ;you have to fight to prevent them from voting it on the seante floor.

70

Guys, see my Update/Clarification above.

This is not the usual 60 vote thing we watch. That's 'cloture' which comes at the end of the debate.

Reid is having trouble getting 60 to START the debate.

This awesome for us.

NO DREW - They have 200 votes in the Senate. The Sky is falling. We are all doomed.

71

Oh, and pursuant to post number 59:

I fully expect, in the next few days a post title that begins with "Uh-Oh" here and another one at HotAir that starts with "Gulp."

Any day now.  I'm just getting myself prepared psychologically now.

 

-T

72

Hehe.

73

But in the end, the Republicans are powerless, and if the bills don't get to a vote, it will not be seen as a Republican victory. So let's make sure we have a good plan to beat the Democrats in 2010 besides "I'm not a Democrat, who, by the way, did not pass Cap & Trade."

No disagreement there. Contract With America 2.0 is needed. But that is the topic for another thread.

74 I wonder if the KSM trial announcement wasn't a planned diversion so to allow Senate democrats the breathing room they need to pass socialized medicine?

75

>Does anyone know when Ken Salazar was a centrist? 

 

when he was campaigning for Senate - he wore a cowboy hat, on a horse, the whole 'I'm a Conservative Democrat- you can trust me on that' schtick

one day after he was sworn in, total Obamabot

now he's interior sec, and he's all in on global warming and alternative energy and giving the western US back to the mexicans and the apaches or whatever

76 Which bill is being debated upon? Pelosicare? Baucuscare? There are so many stupid bills, you can't even keep track of which stupid one they are talking about.

77 Don't forget that even if the Senate bill passes, it has to be harmonized with the House bill somehow. The House bill would never pass the Senate, and the Senate version would never pass the House. Coming up with a compromise bill that satisfies all the Donks is going to be even more difficult than the current step. The Stupak amendment is a good example of the problem: any compromise that brings in 2 leaners will inevitably drive 2 others away.

78

effing sockpuppets

75 is me

79

we = the GOP; our side

Unfortunately, too many RINOs are sabotaging *us*, on issues ranging from Global Climate Fraud to Immigration Scamnesty. So many of us are not going to support any clown just because he has an (R) tag instead of a (D) tag.

 

80 The Senator did say that, he did say that they haven't seen the bill.  He also said it was sent to the CBO for scoring.  He said taht the CBO, if asked, will keep the bill a secret.  This whole segment drove greta mad.

81 or she, I forgot about the RINOmint Twins of Maine.

82 Any of this talk about Reid's inability to muster the votes is garbage.  He'll get them.  Even if Collins and Snowe have to be the Rep. Cao of the Senate.

When it comes to getting the 60 votes, whether it is to start the debate or to end it, he has to get at least one traitor Republican because sheets Byrd is out.

83 Why has Michael Steele never appeared on Rush's show?

84 Hey, Drew. What's the one factor that recently came up that is helping to cause such trouble for the bill in the Senate? There are so many problems for the bill that I can't remember which one popped up to prominence just a few days ago.

85
Contract With America 2.0 is needed.

Yes. The Republicans need some sort of pact to take to the people. Instead of another Contract With America, I suggest a Bill Of Rights For Taxpayers; Protection From The Vampires And Parasites In The Legislature, or...

BORFTPFTVAPITL.

kinda rolls off the tongue, yes?

86 When it comes to getting the 60 votes, whether it is to start the debate or to end it, he has to get at least one traitor Republican because sheets Byrd is out.

I forgot about sheets being incapacitated. I wonder if they'll try and wheel him in on a gurney with tubes and all to get his vote?

87 And I just love how they worked to maintain the total confusion on what the bill actually did. Yes, the most transparent admin in history:

Work up 4 bills in the House simultaneously

Work up 3 bills in the Senate simultaneously

Have the chief SOB talking continuously about "his" bill which never existed.

Then put out a 2 thousand page bill in the House for vote a few hours before voting on it so that nobody knows what in the hell it does,

Everyone of these traitors in Congress should be recalled/impeached/horse whipped.

88 And they get away with it because we do not have an opposition press. Not even Fox is fighting against this POS. He'll from what I have seen the4y are for this crap sandwich.

89
well, if we can get Joe Biden's driving detail to drive around Capitol Hill for a few weeks...

90

The leader was more outspoken in describing his measure, boasting to reporters: "Of all the bills we've seen, it'll be the best: saves more money, is more protective of Medicare, is a bill that's good for the American people."

Reid needs to be kicked in the teeth, ass, and balls for this bald faced lie(s) but I'll settle on him losing his job.  Come on Nevada!

 

91 "...The presence of the triumverate of administration friends and officials who have lots of friends on the Hill and know the ways of the Senate, is likely a sign that Reid and the Democrats still clearly don't quite have everything they need to let the bill proceed."

Does this passage remind anyone else of the glory days (for given values of glory) of Kremlinology, wherein we tried to figure out was what by analyzing who was standing next to whom on the reviewing stand at the May Day parade?

92

Byrd is out? Just how is he "incapacitated?"  Believe me, rolling in a hospice bed to the chamber isn't beyond them.

93

Yes. The Republicans need some sort of pact to take to the people. Instead of another Contract With America, I suggest a Bill Of Rights For Taxpayers; Protection From The Vampires And Parasites In The Legislature, or...

Well, shucks, maybe this IS the thread to bring it up. What needs to be in Version 2.0?

1. Border Wall all the way from San Diego to Brownsville.

2. Ilegal immigration halted and reversed. NO amnesty ever again. We will have to tell the soft bigots of low expectations like Lindsey Grahamnesty to shut up, and wheel off Juan McLame to the retirement home.

3. Legal Immigration curtailment. Make skills, not family reunification, paramount. End "diversity lotteries" that treat US citizenship like the prize behind Curtain #1 on "Let's Make A Deal".

4. ALL of the various market oriented health care reforms proposed by The Heritage Foundation, The American Enterprise Institute, etc. Make that guy who runs Whole Foods our Joe The Plumber 2.0. (And why in the hell wasn't any of this done back when the GOP ran the House? Didn't Hillary's attempt to pussy-whip us into socialized medicine back in 1993 wake up anyone in the GOP?)

5. Drill here, Drill now. Debunk Climate Fraud for what it is.

Feel free to add to the list.

94

Does this passage remind anyone else of the glory days (for given values of glory) of Kremlinology, wherein we tried to figure out was what by analyzing who was standing next to whom on the reviewing stand at the May Day parade?

And people wonder why I call them Commiecrats.

95 Don't be silly.  This must be stopped now. NOW.  No cloture vote now or ever.

If we lose this now we are toast.  Hear me?  Toast.  Burnt toast.

96 We are doomed.

97

CBO score will NOT be made public, according to Reid. Due to the upheaval it caused with the American public to be sure. It will be presented as "for the good of the public and honest debate" we will not be releasing the figures.

Dems are so screwed!!

98

jfalcon

do what I do, turn it into confetti and mail it back. Send it to campaign headquarters. I didn't give up my Dem registration for a good reason. Makes it that much more fun to play with them at their games. Our mayor wants to tax us for rubbish collection due to a five million shortfall next year. I've already startd my little campaign to stop it. Called my Dem councilman and let him know how much I oppose it. He now knows there will be numerous phone calls to his office and the mayor's office from a whole lot of people. I've already started.

99 Has there ever been a more hapless, pathetic wretch of a senate majority leader than Harry Reid? He's just useless, thankfully.

100

"Dems are so screwed!!"

Substitute "Dems" for "us" and you've got it right.  The CBO has just announced that the cost will be 849 billion.  "well under" Obama's alleged line in the sand of 900 Billion.

They are going to push this thing across the river.  Then the bridge can be burnt.

Harry Reid is an evil little man, but that will make him no less successful.

 

-T

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