December 23, 2008

Seattle's Roads Covered in Slick and Dangerous Packed Snow "By Design," Because They Daren't Use Salt to Clear the Snow for Fear of Hurting Salt-Water Puget Sound
— Ace

Packed snow is 90% of the way to ice. But that's what they're driving on Seattle.


Driving in a Winter Wonderland Frozen Hell
of Packed Snow and Collided Cars


To hear the city's spin, Seattle's road crews are making "great progress" in clearing the ice-caked streets.

But it turns out "plowed streets" in Seattle actually means "snow-packed," as in there's snow and ice left on major arterials by design.

"We're trying to create a hard-packed surface," said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. "It doesn't look like anything you'd find in Chicago or New York."

Nope. You can drive in New York.

The city's approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said.

The icy streets are the result of Seattle's refusal to use salt, an effective ice-buster used by the state Department of Transportation and cities accustomed to dealing with heavy winter snows.

"If we were using salt, you'd see patches of bare road because salt is very effective," Wiggins said. "We decided not to utilize salt because it's not a healthy addition to Puget Sound."

...

Seattle also equips its plows with rubber-edged blades. That minimizes the damage to roads and manhole covers, but it doesn't scrape off the ice, Wiggins said.

That leaves many drivers, including Seattle police, pretty much on their own until nature does to the snow what the sand can't: melt it.

The city's patrol cars are rear-wheel drive. And even with tire chains, officers are avoiding hills and responding on foot, according to a West Precinct officer.

Between Thursday and Monday, the city spread about 6,000 tons of sand on 1,531 miles of streets it considers major arterials.

The tonnage, sprinkled atop the packed snow, amounts to 1.4 pounds of sand per linear foot of roadway, an amount one expert said might be too little to provide effective traction.

"Hmmm. Six thousand tons of sand for that length of road doesn't seem like it's enough," said Diane Spector, a water-resources planner for Wenck Associates, which evaluated snow and ice clearance for nine cities in the Midwest.

Well, you can't use too much sand. That might pollute the beaches of Puget Sound with non-native sand.

Even the cop cars are frozen up.

911. What is your emergency?

-- There's an intruder in the house! What should I do?!

Are you near a hill?

-- Yes.

I would suggest "reverse psychology," then. Start yelling "Oh I hope someone home-invades and rapes me," and see if that discourages him.

And what's the result of this policy?

Utterly unexpected:

Sunday was full of car crashes, even after several pleas from State Patrol and local police to stay off the roads.

The State Patrol responded to 157 collisions Sunday in King County.
…
Between noon and midnight on Saturday, the State Patrol responded to 246 collisions … in King County.

Someone's going to die. And those who love fish but hate people will call it environmental justice.


Posted by: Ace at 11:31 AM | Comments (201)
Post contains 566 words, total size 4 kb.

1 Ha Ha! I'm so glad I don't live in Sea...what? I live in Portland? Time for another drink.

Posted by: kiffen at December 23, 2008 11:34 AM (XnuxH)

2 Hmmm.

They don't want to use salt because it'll be bad for Puget Sound??

Ummm.  Puget Sound is already salty.  It's salt water.  It's connected to the Pacific Ocean.

Is there anybody in Seattle that does -not- have his head up his ass?

Posted by: memomachine at December 23, 2008 11:35 AM (XNKxF)

3 And all that sand is going to be good for Pugent sound?

Posted by: CUS at December 23, 2008 11:36 AM (wOGfT)

4 We are talking about Seattle, folks..the most liberal town in that state..hence, also the dumbest.

Posted by: IC at December 23, 2008 11:37 AM (jZNCU)

5 I live in Boston, which is every bit the PC hellhole that Seattle is. We use salt. Why? Because no matter how PC you are, shit still has to get done.

Posted by: Farmer Joe at December 23, 2008 11:37 AM (z4es9)

6 I've lived in US for 10 years and I find myself thinking more and more that I don't understand people here. WTF are people thinking here???

Posted by: LegalImmigrant at December 23, 2008 11:39 AM (rkJR8)

7 Wow...who knew that city engineers viewed "Ice Road Truckers" as a how to guide?

Posted by: Jack M. at December 23, 2008 11:39 AM (eOEgY)

8 I blame global warming.

Posted by: Attila (Pillage Idiot) at December 23, 2008 11:40 AM (rfaI6)

9 We are talking about Seattle, folks..the most liberal town in that state..hence, also the dumbest. I don't know about that. Have you been to Olympia?

Posted by: harrison at December 23, 2008 11:40 AM (Gv4O0)

10 It is the Demunists at their most Commiecrat. It's Seattle, a place with more rain than they know what to do with. In the mountains around where I live in sunny California, sand and snow chains are used, because that snow melt is future water supply. But Seattle????

Posted by: Curmudgeon at December 23, 2008 11:40 AM (ujg0T)

11 Wow, now I know where to rob a bank in Seattle.  Up a hill.  Thanks for revealing your ONE weakness, Seattle PD.

Posted by: James at December 23, 2008 11:40 AM (tVwQi)

12 People in the Pacific Northwest have never used ice on the roads because it rusts out cars.

That's really the beginning and the end of it.

Posted by: Greg Ransom at December 23, 2008 11:42 AM (yKV7p)

13

Wow, now I know where to rob a bank in Seattle.  Up a hill.  Thanks for revealing your ONE weakness, Seattle PD.

Yeah, then hop on your getaway sled. Or skis. Jeez.

Posted by: jdub at December 23, 2008 11:42 AM (t9pKb)

14 From the sidebar over there:

Strip club planned at North Seattle pancake house

"To me it's just a business," Davis said. "I don't personally go into those clubs, only for research purposes. I'm liberal to the point I think the men deserve some nice clubs in this town. I want to have a nice one with food service."

Research purposes?

Posted by: CUS at December 23, 2008 11:43 AM (wOGfT)

15 I'm sorry, what's the downside to a bunch of Seattle Moonbats killing each other in unnecessary car wrecks brought about by their own stupidity?

Posted by: Kensington at December 23, 2008 11:44 AM (fhJCy)

16 People in the Pacific Northwest have never used SALT on the roads because it rusts out cars.

That's really the beginning and the end of it.

(sorry for the typo.)

Posted by: Greg Ransom at December 23, 2008 11:44 AM (yKV7p)

17 Did that article quote a Chief Wiggam?

Posted by: WonderWartHog at December 23, 2008 11:45 AM (LVT6e)

18 I wonder what they'll do if someone sues after an accident caused by the ice? Sounds awfully expensive.

Posted by: Steve the Pirate's wife at December 23, 2008 11:45 AM (FvH9K)

19 @14-- couldn't he have just done his research on Limewire?

Posted by: kiffen at December 23, 2008 11:46 AM (XnuxH)

20 Funny, Greg Ransom...we've used salt in the northeast for decades and people still seem to be driving around in cars.

Posted by: James at December 23, 2008 11:47 AM (tVwQi)

21 As someone who has lived in the mid-west and now Oregon, I am glad that they don't salt the roads here.  Salt destroys vehicles.  This is the first snow that hasn't melted the same day in the last 18 years.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at December 23, 2008 11:47 AM (5GNS+)

22 what's the downside to a bunch of Seattle Moonbats killing each other in unnecessary car wrecks

Moonbats? Driving Gaia-raping penis-substitute machines? 

The dead will be normal people; the moonbats will be snarking about how it served them right for using cars in the first place.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 23, 2008 11:50 AM (fGDhl)

23 Good lord, if you multiply this out between 4-5 "snowy" episodes a year (which is what the innernets tell me is accurate for seattle,) you're up to 2000 crashes.

Posted by: jdub at December 23, 2008 11:53 AM (t9pKb)

24 Just another reason why losing missile defense isn't that big of a deal.
Frikkin Koreans would be doing us a favor.

Posted by: RayJ at December 23, 2008 11:54 AM (87de7)

25 You would think they would realize the salt from the roads balances out the dilution of seawater from the polar ice caps melting.  Duh.

Posted by: huerfano at December 23, 2008 11:55 AM (knHvu)

26 Being from Seattle I can tell you the roads are really bad. Almost as bad as the drivers out now. If I have a home break in though I'll just use a 12 gauge and stack them outside until it thaws out.

Posted by: dvdivx at December 23, 2008 12:00 PM (kL2Tv)

27 Clearly a Bush administration plot to ramp up demand for KBR tire chains.

Posted by: concerned.dot at December 23, 2008 12:04 PM (gQLr2)

28 When I lived in eastern Washington, they would put some sort of chemicals on the icy roads, they look like little grains and would react exothermically, releasing heat and melting the ice. They worked really well, it was expensive though. Don't know why Seattle would not try that, unless they are broke.

Posted by: IC at December 23, 2008 12:04 PM (jZNCU)

29 I see no problem with a city choosing to deal with snowy or icy streets for a very short period of time.

I grew up in Alaska where salt was used on main roads, but not on side streets. That made sense there. Now I live in Portland. I don't have a problem at all dealing with crappy conditions for perhaps 1 week per year.

Further, I'm not sure salt will solve that many problems. Right now the main streets in Portland are frankly not that bad. It's the side streets that are in bad shape. The road I live on isn't even plowed, much less sanded or salted. The problem is getting to the main roads, not driving on the main roads once you get there.

Posted by: anonymous at December 23, 2008 12:09 PM (Qqeu1)

30 Sheesh, one more reason I'll probably never leave coastal California, despite its other drawbacks.  I can own a rear-wheel-drive Lexus here and never have to worry about snow / ice driving.

Posted by: Alex at December 23, 2008 12:10 PM (fgyj8)

31 Kind of a Darwin thing going on there, it will work itself out.

Posted by: the real joe at December 23, 2008 12:11 PM (2t2zK)

32 Salt destroys vehicles.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at December 23, 2008 04:47 PM (5GNS+)

So does getting T-boned by a fucking truck that slides through an intersection at 30 MPH.

Posted by: Andi Sullivan at December 23, 2008 12:14 PM (IoUF1)

33 Don't know why Seattle would not try that
IC at December 23, 2008 05:04 PM

Umm, because they are chemicals.

I live in the eastern (red part) of Oregon, and laugh my ass off when it snows west of the Cascades.
What's going to be really funny is the street flooding this spring. Do you have any idea what 6,000 tons of sand will do to their storm drain system?

Can you say catastrophic infrastructure FAIL.

Posted by: A. Weasel at December 23, 2008 12:16 PM (bqcfE)

34 #28,
I believe the chemical substitute for salt is harmful to animals (i.e., it hurts dog paws).  For those of us who like mammals more than fish, actual salt is preferred.

Posted by: wooga at December 23, 2008 12:18 PM (2p0e3)

35 IC is right,

The east side (aka the Everbrown state) uses a sand-like chemical that works great. Still eats the shit out of your car if you let it sit too long, but the shit works. The Interstates and State Highways are always covered with it too.

Seattle, prettiest city filled with the dumbest people.

Posted by: AFlyingSquirrel at December 23, 2008 12:28 PM (ZuRcl)

36 Wow! Salt will pollute the sea. Next they will ask people to crap on their sofa, because shit might pollute the city's sewage system.

Posted by: Tushar at December 23, 2008 12:28 PM (PTWes)

37 Anonymous...I'm 'cross the creek in the 'Couve, and the side streets are bad, but Clark County doesn't have enough plows to try to keep the main roads clear on a recular basis.  Plus you've got every fucking idiot with a 4x4 blazing through the streets like it was a clear day over here.  Hell, the kids with snowmachines and quad runners are speedign through the neighborhoods, I'm suprised that nobody has cliped a parked car over here.

As for the pancake house being converted into a strip club...will they serve pancaked like on a cup scale...."Hey, I'd like to have a DD cup serving of your tittyberry pancaked, and top it off with some whipped cream, hon...."

Posted by: Buck Naked - Pron Star at December 23, 2008 12:30 PM (gNXjy)

38

 I guess I'm just a hater at heart but the thought of these morons driving around like bumper cars on sheets of ice, probably raising the insurance rates on everyone in town (actually not probably, definately raising the insurance rates on everyone that lives near Seattle) just to keep a little salt out of the ocean makes me laugh and want to despoil the ocean in the most disgusting ways possible.  However, I don't want to actually harm the ocean so I'd probably do something that would just disgust envirotards but not really harm the ocean.  Maybe I'll move there and wash my big sweaty conservative balls in the Sound every morning. 

That's a lot of conservative ballsweat you're potentially going to be swimming in all summer you fucking moonbats.  Just think about the damage 2 or 3 gallons of ballsweat a day can do to a fragile ecosystem like Puget Sound!11!1!1  Hell when you're out worshipping gai in some retard ritual in the water you may just end up with a mouthful of Big E ballsweat and a couple of my pubes in your teeth.   

I'm sorry what was this post about again?   

Posted by: Big E at December 23, 2008 12:30 PM (CBGRs)

39 Chief Wiggins? More like Chief Wiggum. Jesus, hippies are stupid.

Posted by: Terry at December 23, 2008 12:32 PM (GAQ/Q)

40

Yankees.

Heh.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 23, 2008 12:32 PM (B+qrE)

41 Aren't the eco-nuts big time into recycling? How about getting salt out of Puget Sound seawater, using it to thaw the roads and recycle the salt back into the ocean?

Posted by: Tushar at December 23, 2008 12:40 PM (PTWes)

42

"We're trying to create a hard-packed surface," said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. "It doesn't look like anything you'd find in Chicago or New York."

They did this in Denver after the Blizzard of 1982, and the results were predictable--cars abandoned on the side of the road, accidents galore, and no way for emergency personnel to get to where they needed to.  The mayor of Denver, who had been in office for years, lost his job primarily because of this debacle, but it was due to a lack of preparedness for major storms rather than this hippy-dippy retardation.  He tried to spin the lack of prepardness as an example of how lucky Denverites were to live in a state with such nice weather (the snow usually melts within a day or two after snowstorm there).  Doubtless the Seattle City Council is thinking the same thing.

Posted by: A Lock of Che Guevara's Chest Hair at December 23, 2008 12:41 PM (/Pw+r)

43 All fish need salt, even freshwater fish. It keeps them healthy. I have a freshwater Koi pond that I add salt to the freshwater. I haven't had a diseased fish in 5 years ever since a tropical fish store owner let me in on the secret of keeping fish. These anti-salters are lunatics.

Posted by: NortonPete at December 23, 2008 12:41 PM (fVuwW)

44 Salt is going to pollute the ocean?

Only in Seattle.

Posted by: scaramouche at December 23, 2008 12:41 PM (QqWtO)

45 if any one knows of a place i can get some toxic waste cheap i'd like to pour it into seattles water supply.

Posted by: e.koenig at December 23, 2008 12:42 PM (2J+Vs)

46 Think about the favor they're doing the rest of us.

They're going to attract every available ambulance chaser lawyer in the lower 48 and fill their time for the next 9 months.

Posted by: phreshone at December 23, 2008 12:47 PM (Gp/r5)

47 I think I'd sue somebody if I was in a car crash there.

Posted by: katya at December 23, 2008 12:48 PM (oRJZj)

48

44 Salt is going to pollute the ocean?

Only in Seattle.

Posted by: scaramouche at December 23, 2008 05:41 PM (QqWtO)

Thread winner.


Posted by: Tinian at December 23, 2008 12:53 PM (Ohodx)

49 I'm sorry what was this post about again?

Pungent Sound.  Water so sandy and salty, you can dip your balls in it.  Or something.

Posted by: CUS at December 23, 2008 12:54 PM (wOGfT)

50

You're overreacting Ace.  Portland, like Seattle, is a dingy, PC place, but there is no segment of the political spectrum in Portland or Seattle that wants to see the roads salted rather than sanded.  We like our vehicles too much to see them rusted out from salt, and tend to look at a day with snow as a good day to stay home, or chain up.  If we had snow all winter, which you know may be coming if Obama succeeds in lowering the seas and temperatures, then we may need to change our policy. 

No story here.  Move along.

Posted by: Mark in Portland at December 23, 2008 12:55 PM (+45yf)

51 Sort of cool how Seattle streets are so hilly.

Posted by: Moron in the dirty raincoat at December 23, 2008 01:10 PM (8r0JG)

52 Putting the crazy city pols on one side, this is at least a thirty-year storm here. Saying 'we get snow about four times a year' is about right - but three of the four will be a miniscule amount, and the fourth is usually "Oh well, city closed for a day until the (now) 60 F temperatures can fix the problem." This one has extreme temperatures + record snowfall. Plus extended extreme temperatures preventing the melt. Locals: "It's because of Global Warming." Amusingly, the last time snow and cold overlapped this strongly was apparently in the 70's, when Dr. Hansen - the leading scientist of the AGW charge - was still warning us about the coming ice age. Usually the city just shuts down for a day or two. This time... it'll be more than a couple of days. Just saying that maintaining a fleet of vehicles for this storm isn't in the cards. I've lived in upstate New York for more than a decade, and this shit would have been gone practically before it landed as it was spread out in three separate dumps. But none of the civilians here have any of the pickup options to help clear their own neighborhood, and the city DOT guys are probably still learning from the damn manual. This is freaking unusual weather for Seattle. (Just wait until we have our overdue 9.0 earthquake to laugh. We'll make Katrina look more organized than single-crystal diamond.)

Posted by: Al at December 23, 2008 01:10 PM (CyBUS)

53 I remember some very snowy winters in Seattle and was always told the roads weren't salted because salt would rust the cars, especially when the snow turns to gray, gross slush and splashes everywhere. Wish I was there now-- must be some great sledding.

Posted by: LAsue at December 23, 2008 01:12 PM (fNPWd)

54 I live in NJ where we salt our roads even before the season, Sussex County, where it snows from October to April. I have a 2000 Ford without a spot of rust on it but its almost white from salt right now. I think the car manufacturers solved the corrosion thing in the 80's. I dump rock salt on my driveway and the grass in the spring along the edge is the best grass on my property.

Posted by: NortonPete at December 23, 2008 01:15 PM (fVuwW)

55 I live in Olympia.  No salt here, either -- but they're using the 'expense' excuse rather than the insane 'salt will contaminate Puget Sound' excuse.  Plus people here don't like what salt does to cars -- it's so rarely needed here our cars don't have the added corrosion protection.  On the other hand, people have been regularly landing in the ditch by my place, and other drivers cheerfully leap out of their cars, push the stuck car back up on the road, and off everybody goes again.  Only the skiers know how and are prepared to drive in this stuff, so most people are pretty forgiving. 

Posted by: starboardhelm at December 23, 2008 01:15 PM (SgSfB)

56 People in the Pacific Northwest have never used SALT on the roads because it rusts out cars.

Whereas playing bumper cars with parked vehicles all the way down the street before sliding into high volume cross-traffic doesn't cause any damage whatsoever, am I right?

We like our vehicles too much to see them rusted out from salt

You run an auto body shop?

Posted by: Drumwaster at December 23, 2008 01:19 PM (Ymor3)

57 It really doesn't matter if we use sand, table salt, mgcl2, or something - we don't have enough trucks to spread it sufficiently. The regular maintenance trucks aren't equipped for plowing, and the dump trucks aren't equipped for sanding. Regular salt is basically twice as effective as sand (because the Na and the Cl split up to cover more ground). But 'twice as effective' doesn't matter much when we're talking about pissing into the wind.

Posted by: Al at December 23, 2008 01:31 PM (CyBUS)

58 Don't worry, they have fixed the hard packed snow problem in places...replacing it with ICE

Snowplows and traffic have worn through much of the snowpack covering the Seattle region's roads Tuesday -- making way for ice.

But don't worry, if you need to actually be a productive member of society, the metro system probably won't help you:

Metro buses are operating at roughly half-route capacity Tuesday -- like the King County agency has since Thursday afternoon. That means more than 100 routes will be canceled.  If roads are treacherous, buses might continue to skip stops, especially if they're too full to let more passengers onboard.



Posted by: skijorin at December 23, 2008 01:33 PM (cq3pU)

59

"If we were using salt, you'd see patches of bare road because salt is very effective," Wiggins said. "We decided not to utilize salt because it's not a healthy addition to Puget Sound."  That's from the article.  Then you have Seattle posters saying it's about the salt ruining the cars.  So you care less about human life than either: your cars or the eco-system of the Sound.  Read a news report about a tour bus hanging off an overpass in Seattle because it slid on the ice.  But hey, as long as your paint job is tits, it's all good.

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at December 23, 2008 01:34 PM (NIMK9)

60 A couple of years ago, we got a fair amount of ice on the roads and they put sand out. Then, the ice melted, and much of the sand was left on the roads. Then people were sliding all over on the sand. It was ridiculous.

Posted by: AngelEm at December 23, 2008 01:35 PM (sGpZS)

61 "Well, they put that tru-coat on at the factory... I'll talk to my boss."

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at December 23, 2008 01:36 PM (NIMK9)

62

18 I wonder what they'll do if someone sues after an accident caused by the ice? Sounds awfully expensive.

We like our vehicles too much to see them rusted out from salt

You run an auto body shop?

Has anyone actually sat down and done a cost-benefit analysis on this and can demonstrate the harm they claim about salt or sand in real numbers?  Was this policy just some knee jerk off or did someone actually give such a weighty matter the due dilligence it deserves?  If not, this is gonna cost!

Posted by: 7HEAVENS at December 23, 2008 01:39 PM (qNTEk)

63 They should just dump their Starbuck's coffee on the roads. That crap will eat through anything.

Posted by: Roy at December 23, 2008 01:49 PM (JtJrP)

64

Here's the deal.  If you care that much about your paint job, then take the steps necessary to prevent rust.  Allowing accidents, because of the possibility of rust, is not okay.  Especially when rust can be prevented with some work.

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at December 23, 2008 01:49 PM (NIMK9)

65 In Northern Ohio, they salt the shit out of the roads.  I had a 1994 GMC Jimmy that only just started to rust about 3 years ago.  And that got taken care of when a garbage truck hit that side of the truck and Rumpkee paid to have all the pannels on that side of the truck replaced, along with the doors.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 23, 2008 01:54 PM (fpk1J)

66 A chemical plant in New Jersey produced, as a byproduct of other processes, tons per day of reagent-grade saline.  After selling as much as they could to the medical and lab chemical companies, they still had to dispose of the remainder.  They proposed to dilute it to the exact salinity of the local seawater and pipe it out a mile or so.
The EPA refused.  Reason?  As a "byproduct of an industrial process" the saline was classified as toxic waste.  They required that the saline solution be evaporated, then the chemically pure salt trucked to a toxic waste disposal site.  Between the costs of the evaporation (open solar ponds were not allowed because of "risk to the local wildlife), trucking, and disposal, the company wisely shut down that part of their operations, losing NJ seventy jobs and millions in tax revenue.
Which, in the end, is rather funny...when you think about it.

Posted by: Flubber at December 23, 2008 01:55 PM (ScUee)

67 It's not about rust, it's about the masochism of the left.  They derive pleasure from punishing and humiliating themselves.  Anything to avoid the "evil eye", in this case the evil eye of Puget Sound.   Same reason they vote to raise their own taxes, take public trans instead of drive, enjoy losing wars,  etc.

Posted by: ccruse456 at December 23, 2008 02:02 PM (GHJ3w)

68 Flubber,
That is funny. Its like the people who are exhaling CO2 all day complaining about the emission of the same gas. Three people exhale the same amount of dreaded "greenhouse gas" in a 24 hour period as a Cadillac Escalade buzzing down a highway on an average commute.

Posted by: NortonPete at December 23, 2008 02:04 PM (fVuwW)

69 Huh.  So thats why two busloads of kids slid down Thomas avenue, hurtling toward a 35' drop off  on to I-5.  Luckily only 11 or so ended up in the hospital, as the one bus simply teter-tottered on the guard rail.  If not for that miracle, how much would the resulting lawsuits  have cost ya, Nickles? Green policies just might be the death of that city yet.

And yeah.  They hate breeders over there, they do not care if they waste a few in order to advance their freakin' utopia.  All the better for the survivors.

Y'all might live on top of a Whole Foods, but just how ya gonna eat if the distribution system fails?  

Nuckleheads deserve everything they get.

Posted by: Derak at December 23, 2008 02:08 PM (kRTa/)

70 Here in Arizona, we use our sand for other things--we call them "Deserts". Dummy rain-soaked libtards are trying to put their deserts on their streets. Idjiots!

And who puts salt on their roads? Are those people crazy? Salt is for margaritas. Geesh. 

Posted by: azlibertarian at December 23, 2008 02:13 PM (q6Lb+)

71 Evidently their Godess requires some human sacrifices; a few grisly car wrecks in the winter and a few joggers picked off by mountain lions in the summer. Portland just ruined 6 of their new bio-diesel trucks; they poured straight french fry grease down 'em despite the huge, glaring warning labels. Now they want to sue Ford. Maybe they should sue McDonalds. Or their public schools, which foolishly graduated them. They won't use french fry grease again. And Seattle won't use salt. I hear Olympia won't use ketsup either. Portland is ahead of the curve, though. At the height of the gas price squeeze, Obama's Energy Sec-Elect Steven Chu said 'We've got to figure out a way to get our gasoline costs up with Europe's". Well, Portland is paying $7.50 per gallon--Mission Accomplished! I'm glad that the city has that much money to burn--maybe they can send Detroit some. Low gas prices are the one bright spot in our economy ...and they want to stamp it out! On top of Obama's promise to bakrupt the coal industry. That's CRAZY. You had your vote--now buy a coat.

Posted by: Noel at December 23, 2008 02:24 PM (4gHqM)

72 ps: what happened to "If it saves even one life, it's worth it!"?

Posted by: Noel at December 23, 2008 02:29 PM (4gHqM)

73 *sigh* Noel, please stop lumping everyone who believes in a goddess together. And keep in mind that a lot of those people believe in very little above and beyond what AlGore and his ilk tell them.

Posted by: Your friendly neighborhood conservative pagan at December 23, 2008 02:31 PM (sGpZS)

74 One of these days, I swear to God, I am going to blow my top!

And these buffoons think they have problems now?

Heh.

Posted by: Mount Rainier at December 23, 2008 02:36 PM (yOLoW)

75

We don't get huge snow like this all that often so for the once in a blue moon snows that won't go away I think it's A-OK to salt the fucking roads because that small amount of salt isn't going to trash anybody's precious Prius. Also, the argument is that the salt runs into the freshwater streams before getting into the Sound and that it hurts the freshwater streams. Again, it's a stupid argument because it isn't like we need to salt the roads every single day here for 120 days.

But, for God's sake let's protect the fucking environment and let's hate on the drivers who have to get somewhere and throw snowballs and dent their cars and block roads so we can sled and descend into anarchy because we're a bunch of freakin moonbat liberals who take absolutely no responsibility for our actions and refuse to grow up. Hoo-fucking-ray Obama has been elected we don't have to do shit ever again and let's party in the fucking streets and then leave our garbage everywhere. Let's steal from people. Whatever, Obama, Obama, Obama baby.

I seriously hate Seattle. Seriously.

Posted by: ParanoidInSeattle at December 23, 2008 02:37 PM (AJ4xq)

76 Fuck them....they're dead to me.

Posted by: torabora at December 23, 2008 02:41 PM (chZf8)

77 We like our vehicles too much to see them rusted out from salt.

The citizens, on the other hand, don't deserve to live.

Posted by: fireweed at December 23, 2008 02:49 PM (O6vGM)

78 I can testify to what Ranba Rai said, sorta. I'm not in the Northern Ohio snow belt but I'm in Central Ohio and they spread salt on the roads here like they're giving it away. Nothing detrimental to the environment as of yet.

Posted by: ErikW at December 23, 2008 02:49 PM (hKtiw)

79 conservative pagan, Okay, but please don't lump me in with those who believe in the existence of Al Gore.

Posted by: Noel at December 23, 2008 03:02 PM (4gHqM)

80 Rainier is actually being carved out by acids from within - so, unlike a typical eruption, the danger is not detectable - and periodically a section of it suddenly implodes and that side of the mountain cascades down, rolling like a liquid as it goes (I think it's called a lahar), and wipes out everything in its path.

IIRC, all of Redmond is built on the remains of one and the mountain is currently "overdue" for another. But don't worry: it's not in the least salty.

Posted by: Too Much Discovery Channel at December 23, 2008 03:10 PM (nTM50)

81 #79 So that huge mass commonly referred to as "Al Gore," which seems to suck the common sense right out of people who get near it, doesn't exist? People must be stupid all on their own, then. Believable, unfortunately.

Posted by: Your friendly neighborhood conservative pagan at December 23, 2008 03:19 PM (sGpZS)

82 Well, Conservative Pagan, there are about 4 of you out there (used to be 5, but I bailed for Jesus). One's my wife. Stereotypes suck, but they exist for a reason. Got a friend in Portland talking about everybody's carports collapsing. I saw a picture, and they're being held up with little tiny tentpoles! She scored some 4x4s that are doing the trick, but gee, blow a soap bubble and complain when it pops...

Posted by: Jeffrey Quick at December 23, 2008 03:26 PM (rnCdb)

83 Hot Air comment too good to miss:

I live on the Washington coast. We got 18″ of snow with 5′ drifts. The county doesn’t use salt, and the last I saw of their snow removal equipment, it was sliding down the hill, all wheels locked up, the plow thrown down as far as it could go to stop the plunge.

Salt. It’s what’s for dinner.

Credit to wccawa

Posted by: CB at December 23, 2008 03:44 PM (9Wv2j)

84 90% of these assholes were born after WWII. The Nazis did something to us, used some kind of secret weapon.

Posted by: eman at December 23, 2008 03:56 PM (L4oFX)

85 Lee Harris: "From my point of view, as an independent, Gore seemed innocuous: wooden and stiff, as everyone agreed, but someone who could be trusted to behave himself like a gentleman; I had admired Gore's father, one of the south's most distinguished Senators, and, like many southerners, I assumed that the apple could not have fallen too far from the tree -- and certainly it never occurred to me that it could have landed and rolled all the way across town. But it did -- a fact that I learned about three o'clock in the morning after the Election of 2000, when I woke up to hear that Gore had conceded the election to Bush, and then had called him back to tell him, Gosh, gee-whiz, he had changed his mind. My first thought was: You simply don't do that. It is a violation of the code of a gentleman -- as corny as that might sound nowadays. And it disturbed me greatly, though in this case, as in many others, it was not at once clear to me why the retraction struck me as so intuitively wrong; and I went back to sleep naively thinking the media would slaughter Gore the next day for having done such a thing the night before. I was soon disabused of my illusions about the media. None of the pleasant faces I saw on CNN or the other news channels seemed to suggest the slightest hint of disapproval for Gore's conduct. (I did not then know that FOX news even existed.) What could be more natural, these pleasant faces seemed to suggest, than retracting one's concession in a Presidential Election?" No, AlGore does not exist--he is a cyborg myth with which we scare small children into behaving.

Posted by: Noel at December 23, 2008 04:01 PM (4gHqM)

86 I live in Olympia.  No salt here, either -- but they're using the 'expense' excuse rather than the insane 'salt will contaminate Puget Sound' excuse.  Plus people here don't like what salt does to cars -- it's so rarely needed here our cars don't have the added corrosion protection.

You mean GM offers the same car in with corrosion protection and without corrosion protection especially for the Pacific northwest?  Who knew?  No wonder they're losing money.

Posted by: someone2 at December 23, 2008 04:16 PM (jN5eK)

87 Libtards. I guess they hate the S.U.V.'S  that have to be used to get around on their shitty streets? God i hate liberals! Gonna be a long fuckin 4 yrs with Obama and the calorie , etc... police! Oh do these asses that voted for him realize he SMOKES!?  Lord help us.

Posted by: marine43 at December 23, 2008 04:23 PM (pKzG3)

88 I just heard on the news that they are going to suspend hobo season here provided the hobos agree to shovel the streets. So much for the Christmas Hobo Dinner.

Posted by: robtr at December 23, 2008 04:25 PM (uJzOr)

89 I hope no one dies or is seriously injured but if they are in Seattle I hope they sue the shit out of the city and bankrupt these stupid bastards.

Al Franken still eats paste.

Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at December 23, 2008 04:25 PM (PBGAP)

90 How about Seattle also increasing the speed limit during snowstorms to seventy mph. I am all for active evolutionary policies to trim down the moonbat population and this seems to be a very good way to do so, given how Seattle has given us a good head start. (just kidding, barely).

Posted by: eaglewingz08 at December 23, 2008 04:32 PM (qh8b9)

91

"Plus you've got every fucking idiot with a 4x4 blazing through the streets..."

Now that, bygodsir, is a liberal

Hey. Nutless. That's what they're for.  That's why we buy them in Flyover.

Wonder what kind of world-saving mileage those Smart FourTwo's are getting today.  But hey! Just walk, or ride a bike, or...

Take the Monorail!

Posted by: comatus at December 23, 2008 04:38 PM (GKsx8)

92 I say we put a harness on AlGore and ride his global fucking warming fat ass down the hills in Seattle.  That'll melt that shit.

Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at December 23, 2008 04:39 PM (PBGAP)

93

What Al said @ 52. There's going to be hell to pay when it's over. Metro has to be losing money like crazy. Seattle sits on seven hills that run down to a bay and just about all the bus routes go through downtown, which is at the bottom of three of them. Buses have been stranded all over with some routes shut down altogether. Many of the routes that are running aren't on a schedule and half the buses you see on the road are going to base. I'm on Capitol Hill and three buses were stranded in the same intersection up the hill from me most of Sunday afternoon. Tonight when I got home there was a bus stranded in front of my building - which is not on any bus route that I know of. The accident the other day with the two buses hanging over I-5 was just down the block.  I walk everywhere anyway, but I wouldn't feel safe getting on a bus right now.

The ice today is the worst it's been all week: the snow keeps thawing a little during the day and refreezing at night. And I was just saying to somebody at work how the snow in the roads was really packed down hard, and slicker than it ought to be and now I know to thank our own Chief Wiggam (thanks guys- that's brilliant!)

Everybody here seems to think it'll rain in a day or two and all the ice will wash away. They've never heard of sleet. They don't really believe in winter here. Especially not now. People in Seattle are odd in many ways and I always think of what Tolkien wrote about hobbits, that they were sheltered, but didn't remember it anymore. 

@75 I know the feeling. But I've learned to laugh at Seattle. In a cruel sort of way

Posted by: marymcl at December 23, 2008 04:40 PM (akE4f)

94

Memomachine at #2 comment:

Is there anybody in Seattle that does -not- have his head up his ass?

You mean besides me? I suppose it's one way to keep your ears warm.

Mark in Portland at #50: You have it exactly backwards. This is a one in a decade snowstorm, so salting the streets one time isn't going to really rust anything out. If we had snow like this all season long, every year, then the salt would rust underbodies out. This storm was also unusual (as was mentioned above) in that it fell over a period of a week or so, with more coming tonight, then changing over to rain on Wed., so we can look forward to some nice urban flooding to add to the fun. Most of the storm drains are clogged with a mix of the last of the leaves and packed with the bottom layer of ice. Since it's still going to get below freezing the next few nights, maybe the streets turn into pure ice as the rain melts the top few inches. Usually when it snows in Seattle, it's a tiny amount and gets rained away by the next afternoon. The last time this happened was in '96, but that all fell within 24 hours. This storm (well, series of storms) was like a 7-layer dip in that we started with freezing rain, then snow, then lather, rinse repeat.

Al at #51 gets it right.

Most of the major arterials are passable, but slushy. The sidewalks are 10x more treacherous than the streets, particularly downtown. I do note that the city managed to use up all their chemical de-icer near the govt. bldg. core and the rest of us peons get to walk and drive on solid ice.

The "save the salmon" argument the City of Seattle is a little ridiculous on 3 points:

1) I'm no biologist, but the way I understand it, salmon hatch in freshwater streams then swim downstream for a short cruise around the ocean (saltwater) then return upstream to freshwater to spawn and die. So I'm pretty sure they can hack both environments.

2) Puget Sound is huge and a few tons of salt on the streets would be like adding a single grain of salt to a barrel of already salty water. Never mind the fact that not all that salt would even make it to the water as runoff. (Also never mind that salmon could always use a little more spice...seems like everytime I've eaten one, they seem a little dry and underflavored)

3) The Wash. State DOT plus surrounding, slightly less insane cities, do use salt and/or de-icer to clear out highways and other roads. It may come as a shock to our increasingly dictatorial mayor (plastic bag ban, beach bonfire ban, styrofoam cup ban) that those interstate highways are not under any kind of jurisdiction of him or the city council. So shit's gonna' end up in the waterways anyway.

Personally, the genghismobile has been getting around just fine since last Thursday ('04 Ram w/ a 5.7 litre Hemi, baby, and gears so low, I didn't even know I had them...torque is your friend). Practically had the road to myself on Friday's and Monday's commutes. The problem came today when the streets were festooned with a multitude of Prius,' Volvos and other things that had no business being on them.

It was kinda' cool seeing people on Capitol Hill skiing and snowboarding down Denny and a couple other streets. With all the chunky iciness, those probably rate a blue or even black diamond slope. Problem is...no ski-lift back to the top. And careful you don't go over the railings and drop 30 feet down to I-5, right in front of a semi.

Posted by: genghis at December 23, 2008 04:45 PM (1XErj)

95 Magic Eight Ball, is American supremacy over because the country has been usurped by dolts and all semblance of common sense and rational thought has been lost?

It is decidedly so.

Posted by: The Haimster at December 23, 2008 04:47 PM (hOsjH)

96

Marymcl,

Sorry you have to live on Capitol Hill (though lotsa' good chow up there). I lived on Belmont, next to the B&O for a couple of years. One of my coworkers has been walking into the office the last 3 work days due to the hill. Takes him an hour in sub-freezing weather. The suck factor is quite high for him.

Posted by: genghis at December 23, 2008 04:51 PM (1XErj)

97 I lived in Bellingham, WA in the 90's. We had a snow that froze and lasted for 2 weeks.  They never plowed because, "it doesn't snow there".  I had to park at the bottom of my hill and walk with a baby and toddler.  Sucked.

Posted by: chop at December 23, 2008 04:57 PM (lHsQc)

98 Someone's going to die. And those who love fish but hate people will call it environmental justice. If there is any justice, it will be one of those idiots responsible for this hair-brained scheme, smacked by a sliding car.

Posted by: cheshirecat at December 23, 2008 05:03 PM (KK3pa)

99

Okay.

I remember when one of our directors returned from Seattle after a three or four year deployment exile there. He and his wife (also an employee) were draggin down around 200k in combined salaries yet he returned in a shitty, rusted-out, gawd-awful to look at, Toyota compact pickup truck.

He said that it's common for people there to choose to drive shitty looking cars because the taxes are so completely out of the universe if you drive a decent car that most just choose the shitty car.

What is that all about?

Of course, I'm spoiled. I'm a native Floridian. Other than palmetto bugs cockroaches you can saddle up at the rodeo, mosquitos who use headlamps to seek their victims at night, 110% humidity...in the Winter, and the threat of death by electrocution when speaking on the phone or when bathing anytime between 3-6 p.m. during the stormy Summer months, it's a real pleasure to live here. No state taxes, a pretty managable property tax, and a renewable car tag for about $30 a year...and no friggin' ice on the roads!

Oh. And when doing market research a few days ago I stumbled upon a google map of Starbucks shops in Seattle. I couldn't believe it! I would swear that there were some blocks with a fucking Starbucks on each of the four corners.

But, well, I'm just a backwoods, union-hating, rebel-rousing, moron of a Southerner, so what do I know about frothy coffee anyway?

 

Posted by: jmflynny at December 23, 2008 05:05 PM (C7p+q)

100 As someone who has lived in the mid-west and now Oregon, I am glad that they don't salt the roads here. Salt destroys vehicles. This is the first snow that hasn't melted the same day in the last 18 years. Ya know, if you wash your car after the snow melts, you wash all that salt away...and besides, most of the friggin' cars have a plastic body anyway. Salt destroys vehicles...so does a 6 ton SUV sliding into your rear end.

Posted by: cheshirecat at December 23, 2008 05:05 PM (KK3pa)

101 I can testify to what Ranba Rai said, sorta. I'm not in the Northern Ohio snow belt but I'm in Central Ohio and they spread salt on the roads here like they're giving it away. Nothing detrimental to the environment as of yet. And then then close the schools when 1/4" sprinkes down. It'd be nice if they would fucking salt the side streets tonight...the damned ice is dangerous!

Posted by: cheshirecat at December 23, 2008 05:17 PM (KK3pa)

102 comatu,

I ain't no libtard - got a Dodge Ram 4x4 with the Cummins under the hood...I don't like asses that drive with no snowtires/chains on uncleared streets at 50+ MPH...common sense left the area the minute the first snow fell here in Vancouver...

Posted by: Buck Naked - Pron Star at December 23, 2008 05:24 PM (gNXjy)

103
One entry found.
Main Entry:daren't Pronunciation: \ˈder-ənt\ : dare not : dared not
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Posted by: Joe mamma at December 23, 2008 05:30 PM (szSux)

104 Hey, that icy hill looks like fun!!

Can't wait till the car crash lawyers start filing those lawsuits.


Posted by: PJ at December 23, 2008 05:34 PM (GVdvM)

105 Let see, Vanvouver, WA. uses salt, across the river, Portland, OR uses liquid deicer. We both just got hammered (for western NW) and there was no difference in traffic. All roads were equally messed up. Vancouver didn't move any better than Portland. All salt does is rust your rig and ruin bridges>

Posted by: littleboy at December 23, 2008 05:48 PM (wXU/i)

106

He said that it's common for people there to choose to drive shitty looking cars because the taxes are so completely out of the universe if you drive a decent car that most just choose the shitty car.

What is that all about?

jmflynny, a couple of days after I bought the genghismobile, I still had the temp tag taped in the back window, but had accumulated some road dust. Someone wrote "pig" in the dust on the side of it while I was at work. I was actually pleased the punk-ass didn't carve it into the paint, that's how bad it is around here. I have an Amnesty International sticker I put on my derelict CJ-7 many years ago as a joke and that always gets left alone. Maybe I should camoflage (sp?) the truck with leftish stickers. Someone swiped my radio antennae a couple of weeks back, but that could've just been pure vandalism. Might've also been a manslaughter charge if I'd witnessed either event.

Cheshirecat @ #101:

Seattle public schools cancelled all classes last week on Wednesday in anticipation of the snowstorm. Not a single flake of snow fell until well after midnight on Thursday. Eventually the school year is going to get pared down to 5 days each year due to potentially scary weather, teacher conference/meeting/group hug days/strikes and whatever else the NEA can come up with to avoid work or actually teaching. In the meantime, I'd suggest you all start teaching your kids Mandarin, Hindi and perhaps even Spanish at home in preparation for their future lives washing clothes, gardening, etc.

Posted by: genghis at December 23, 2008 06:26 PM (1XErj)

107 Hmmm.

There is no limit to how silly people can get.

Posted by: memomachine at December 23, 2008 06:34 PM (XNKxF)

108

107 Hmmm.

There is no limit to how silly people can get.

By "silly" you mean drunk of course.

Posted by: genghis at December 23, 2008 06:39 PM (1XErj)

109 Ah, the land that birthed Kurt Cobain, America's most suicidal artist. It all makes sense now.

Posted by: caspera at December 23, 2008 07:01 PM (3oOOo)

110

Outstanding!  This should thin out the hippies and leftists some as they become hood ornaments and festive driveshaft wrappings.  Depending on results, we might want to invest in snow machines for other liberal-centric urban areas.  Of course we'll have to weigh return on investment and such vs. stocking these areas with the already known Alaskan brown bear cure.

Good thing that one fucking ijit hippy went to all the trouble of documenting his suicide via "big fuzzy party animals" and did the field research for us, we're halfway there.  Now if we can just get some local Seattle souces to jot down a few notes we'll be in business.

 

 

Posted by: LFMayor at December 23, 2008 07:01 PM (Ge7CK)

111 Stupid screwy liberal studidy look at what happens when the stupid mindless eco-freak moonbats made stupid regulations AND SOME BIRDS ACUIALY EAT ROAD SALT

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at December 23, 2008 08:16 PM (b2ETh)

112 Are they for real? You could snowboard down that hill FFS.

Posted by: DJ Douche at December 23, 2008 09:22 PM (JvKLG)

113

Eventually the school year is going to get pared down to 5 days each year due to potentially scary weather, teacher conference/meeting/group hug days/strikes and whatever else the NEA can come up with to avoid work or actually teaching.

Call In Ghey day would trim that down to 4 at most.

Posted by: DJ Douche at December 23, 2008 09:25 PM (JvKLG)

114

Wul HAIL, Buck, that's diff'r'nt. I also 'quickly lose patience' (read "get pist") at johnny-cum-lately SUV drivers who think they've leased the Physics-Repealed option. But I'm an old rally navigator, so none of this applies to me... 

I have [none-too-fond] childhood memories of back when my biggish Midwestern city always just let the snow lay there, not a political exigency but because, well, there it was. People used snow chains and extreme caution, and for the most part still got around--some limitation of mobility was an accepted part of winter. It wasn't so bad, and for people who really had to get around in it, a Jeep or rear-engine car was a badge of honor. Ironic that in a time when competent vehicles are easily available, we've become salt addicts.  

The entire South is just like Seattle, exept for the attitudinal veneer. An inch in Atlanta, Charlotte or St. Louis locks things up pretty tight for the uninitiated. And many snow towns, after ordering whole fleets of snowplow-ready trucks after 1978-79 and using them like twice before retirement, opted for the same gamble as other social programs outweighed street maintenance.

Posted by: comatus at December 24, 2008 04:03 AM (GKsx8)

115 Just when you think these retards couldn't get any dumber.  Not surprising though.  These are the same people who curse global warming while falling down a flight of icy stairs.  I live in MA and let me tell you... this GW sure is COLD.  It was FIVE degrees yesterday morning scraping the GW off of my car.  Somebody just got struck by a vehicle right out by my office, and we use salt before it even snows.  I feel bad for all the hard working normal people while the gubmint decides to pack that ice in real good like... so it makes a better surface to traverse.   Rrrrrrright.

Posted by: Melodic Metal at December 24, 2008 05:19 AM (0TU9n)

116

Living in New York, I learned early on how NOT to have your ride destroyed by salt.

We just bought a "winter beater" for the shit times, and life was good. Hell, if you got a good enough one, it'd last for 2 or 3 years. Meanwhile, the prime ride stayed prime.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 24, 2008 06:54 AM (ud5dN)

117

>"The city's approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said. "

Well it looks like purchasing an SUV is being encouraged by icy roads.  Do these el-cubos ever consider the conflicts that their policies regularly create?

On the one hand they're against SUVs and on the other hand they encourage people to buy SUVs because they're the only way to get around town.  Shit, even the taxis are eventually going to be SUVs if this no-salt-on-the-roads policy continues.

Posted by: Speller at December 24, 2008 08:38 AM (2Hv5h)

118 Salt water oceans could be polluted with salt, eh?  Who knew.

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