1

couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks

ain't Karma a bitch, though?

2 Nothing going on in the Swat valley that a 750 kiloton airburst of American Sunshine couldn't fix.

3 wow didnt see this coming...

4 Almost as unexpected as the sun rising in the morning.

5 Is this one of those "Chickens coming home to roost" moments?

6

How bad does your life have to be to consider the Swat Valley in northwest freaking Pakistan a luxurious tourist destination?

7 Swat valley is just 100 miles from Pakistani capital.

Delaware is 100 miles from DC. Imagine Delaware getting so out of whack that US Military cannot control it anymore. That is the sort of place Pakistan has become, but with nukes.   

Given India's disproportionately larger size and resources, India can easily destabilize Pakistan. But why interrupt them when they are doing a great job of it themselves?

8 Yeah India should be having the world's largest popcorn festival right now.

9

Is this one of those "Chickens coming home to roost" moments?

I prefer to think of it as a "teachable moment."  Not that they'll learn anythinh here, but still...

10 So Tushar,
if the Taliban over run Pakistan, do you think the Indian government would invade?

11

Nuke the whole site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure...

12 A. Weasel,

India probably will, but with only two objectives:
1. Secure the nukes.
2. Protect India's border from terrorist infiltration.

I doubt India will try to annex or control any territory

13 Cobras make poor pets.

14

How ironic is it that the 8th century sucks like a gas-turbine powered dredge?

15 "Most of the insurgents are easy to spot with long hair, beards, rifles, camouflage vests and running shoes. They number at most 2,000, according to people who were interviewed."

If they already know who these people are, what's the difficulty in capturing them?
Are they that fast?

16 1 & 2 sound like damn fine ideas.
Trying to control that area would be like walking on a sea of snakes.

17 Taliban Burning, Beheading Its Way Through Pakistani Valley.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

18 Send aid with Cynthia McKenny.

19 The weird thing is Barry could nuke them and get away with it. Anyone else, no way.

20 No problemo... in about three weeks, the Liberator of Pakistan is gonna take care of this.

21 Invade?  Why would India want more muslims behind its borders?  Carpet bombing (or the modern equivalent) is really in order.

22 Only 2000?  This is gonna be easier than I thought!

23 Of course if Barry nukes anyone, it'll be blamed on Karl Rove's mind control.

24 Sen. Joey Biden, Foreign Policy Super Genius..@15
IT'S THOSE DAMN RUNNING SHOES.
Tried and tested in American Ghettos

25

The weird thing is Barry could nuke them and get away with it.

Democrats have always been at war with Westasia.

26 India will not do a ground invasion. Maybe aerial assault on key targets and maaaay be a special ops insertion to take out some 'strategic' sites.

As part of US-India Military joint exercises, they have been doing some Special Ops exercises too. Now, the obvious answer is that they are preparing to invade Norway and secure the Lutefisk stockpile in case of a sudden Scandi uprising. But this could be aimed at other things too.

27

"Several people interviewed said the regional government made a mistake in May when it struck a peace deal with the militants. The agreement fell apart within two months but let the insurgents regroup."

I'm sure when Barack starts negotiating, though, they will listen and be scared and will lay down their weapons!

28

So Tushar,
if the Taliban over run Pakistan, do you think the Indian government would invade?
 

They have no choice.  If India doesn't the US will...Oh, wait we fucking elected Urkel.

29 SO...Let me, a simple minded white guy get this straight...A place in Paki-Land has the name "Swat"? Cool.
It's full of crazy ass bearded guys with blowtorches and axes, killing and maiming their fellow rugfaces? Okay, unfortunate, but still cool. The name,that is.
Other than that, I say let's throw our lot in with the friendlier and more stable Hindis on this one and let it ride. What the hey, nothing to lose really,huh?
A. Pakistan quells the insanity (unlikely), and things go on as before.
B. Pakistan comes down with its hob-nail boots all over this stuff, quick...(unlikely).

I say, it's win-win for us...nothing changes, then nothing changes...But if the gubmint in Crotchee gets overthrown or destabilized, we get to see what happens to a fully insane Islamic state. Popcorn, please.
I, for one, think in the case of the latter, India would do what it had to do and go in and secure those things that threatened it, and we would quietly cooperate and even help out if we could.
And then Tali-Paki-Land Amusement center would be open for business, and just as crazy as Chuckie Manson, the human bed bug.

Did I already ask for popcorn? Add a juicebox to that.

30 >>But if the gubmint in Crotchee gets overthrown or destabilized

Sandman, their gubmint is not in Crotchee. It is in I-slam-a-bad.

31 Great h/t sandman! Popcorn and juicebox futures..401K saved!

32 #19

in other words, "Only Barry could Nuke Pakistan"

He could be the left's Nixon!

33 Are they that fast?

Duh, running shoes!

34

"Most of the insurgents are easy to spot with long hair, beards, rifles, camouflage vests and running shoes."

Must be that cheap, leftover Russian camoflage.

35 Slightly, OT: The IDF has some great war porn on youtube and liveleak. For some odd reason innocent looking Gaza buildings give off some mighty secondary explosions. Hmmm. Nah!

36 Oh, those wacky Taliban!  What will they think of next?

37 Obama has to be getting nervous and jerky by now. His turn at bat is coming soon and I'm sure he knows that awe inspiring speeches can't stop Taliban torch 'n runs, Israeli's bent on vengeance or his own state party hornswoggling the whole process. I'd be golfing too.

38

Those guys are revolutionaries. Why...you'll see one of them's face on tshirts on college campuses all over America 10 years from now. Hell, there might even be a poster of this heroic icon on the wall at campaign headquarters for some future candidate of an unknown party. Hide and fucking watch.

Wait....these guys kinda weave religion into their ideology a bit don't they? Uhhh......never mind. 

Missed it by that much.

39 Barry could easily crack and give the job to Biden, who will pass it to Nancy, who will pass it to Hillary. Her plan all along.

40 I have to do more than give awe inspiring speeches?  Why the fuck didn't anyone tell me that?

I need a smoke.

41

Turns out that by sheer stupid coincidence, G.W. Bush, CIC of the most powerful fucking military in the world, has been working for the past few years re-building an alliance with India, even to the point of having their air forces participate in exercise Red Flag in Nevada, flying MiG-29s in coordinated strike scenarios with F-15s, F-22s, and A-10s, all under AWACS control.  Wonder what they were thinking?

And Red Flag also included the French, with their spanking-new Moraine-Saulnier tri-planes with syncronized machine-guns!  (Oops, maybe that slide in the Powerpoint briefing was out of date.)

And the South Koreans were there with their F-15Ks flown from right off the factory floor in St. Louis.  Kind of like buying your BMW in Europe and playing with it for a few weeks before you bring it home, only with weapons.

Anyway, Barry will show him how it's done so much more nuanced, I'm sure.

42

Barry could easily crack and give the job to Biden, who will pass it to Nancy, who will pass it to Hillary.

Her plan all along.

Devious bitch. I like that about her.

43 Barry could easily crack and give the job to Biden, who will pass it to Nancy, who will pass it to Hillary.

I believe the succession is President, Vice President, Governor of Illinois

44 I suppose I should say something deep and whatnot but, really, my only response is ha HA!

45 LOL good post sherlock

46

Actually it's Biden, Nancy, Robert Byrd , Hillery...

47 Wasn't the Indian SF training with the Israelis recently?

Yeah.

48 Can't someone find something on this Bryan Becker...the pallywood dude protesting in d.c.  He looks like a "you know".

49 >>Actually it's Biden, Nancy, Robert Byrd , Hillery...

Don't worry. If Nancy refuses, suddenly everyone on the left will remember that he belongs to KKK, and he will be shunted out. If he does not, he will unexpectedly die of old age.

50

I prefer to think of it as a "teachable moment."  

Exactly.  When they are fed up enough, with help,  they have the capacity to stop this.  If you read the account of the Seals in Lone Survivor you can see that the effort the USA put in so far has not been nearly enough to police a vast country with a topograhy like that.   Only they can change the situation.  They may be coming around.

51 Tushar, I knew where the gubmint over there is located but I like Crotchee as a name better than I Slam a Bad, which sounds vaguely like a comeback record from Vanilla Ice. Too close for my comfort. Crotchee gets my sarc/ nod.
Stylistic I know, but it was a sarcastic remark and sarcasm does not need to be either accurate or factual. Just ask John Stewart.

That's all the fat guy is saying,
Sandman.

52 Tushar,
Just as an aside you could have also pointed out that Karma, bitch or not, is not one of the founding tenets of Islam. That is as bad as my purposely misnaming the Paki Capital. Frankly, I want to call it Islam is Bad, but I'm simple like that.
 

53

Unitended consquences is a harsh mistress.

 

54 16 1 & 2 sound like damn fine ideas.
Trying to control that area would be like walking on a sea of snakes.

Posted by: A. Weasel at December 30, 2008 07:04 PM (bqcfE)

Snakes... Why did it have to be snakes?

55 I hate militant Islamics, but I have to admit the fucking Pakis had this one coming. I hope they stone a couple ISI officers to death for not coughing up the protection money, I mean "religious thithes" on schedule.

56 I'm thinking a half dozen crafty Marine snipers could cut down that 2,000 number fairly quickly, or at least make'em so paranoid they keep a lower profile.

57 You know what Barry ought to do?  Appoint Dubya his National Security Adviser. Oh, I can hear Kos's head explode from over here!

Seriously, all of the arguments in favor if keeping Gates at DoD apply triply for keeping Dubya in the WH.

58

BTW as regards Red Flag exercise 2008: the nations I mentioned were actually there, and the French actually had some nice jets - Rafaels(?).

IIRC, India had a problem working effectively with other forces because they were reluctant to turn on their full radar suite, assuming that the US would be sucking up gazillions of electrons to characterize it.  A correct assumption I am sure.

The French were the French, tending as they have done in Iraq to hang back and see what the big boys do, and record it for further study back in Gay Paree.

Koreans were just learning to drive their Beemers F-15Ks and did okay.

Brits and Canadians did okay too, but they are expected to, eh?

USAF generally kicked major ass, but tragically the Base CO for Nellis was killed in a crash, flying with a Brit officer, who got out alive.  I have not heard the report on what happened.

God Bless Them Every One!

59 Obama has to be getting nervous and jerky by now.

OT, but throughout the presidential debates, we heard from the Messiah what he was going to do in "Pok-ee-STAHN." That's how he pronounced it. And nobody said a fucking thing. But you know that if Sarah Palin had pronounced it "Pok-ee-STAHN", it would have led in all the news stories for the next ten days and would also have been the subject of 7 long and boring SNL skits and at least 3 unfunny Jon Stewart shows.

60 Mooselimbs whacking mooselimbs?!  How un-islamic!   /sarc

61

Seriously, all of the arguments in favor if keeping Gates at DoD apply triply for keeping Dubya in the WH.

Jesus, we could just drop off one KozKiddie in the middle of the Swat valley with earphones duct-taped on tuned to BBC, and announce that GWB would be a-runnin the war, and its head would go off to the tune of at least 10 megatons!  Pakistan's problem completely solved, and a small first start on ours too.

62 From TFA:  "Swat's militants are led by Maulana Fazlullah."

I thought Babe Ruth was "The Sultan of Swat."

63 Right now the most useful thing India could do would be to drop a bunker-buster on Pakistan's intelligence service HQ during business hours.  Once the Talis aren't getting their weekly paycheck their enthusiasm may start to wane.

64 Nov '07 , 70% of Swat Valley was already controlled by the Taliban.

I feel for the populations under the Taliban rule - it's not like they have any choice about it.

From an article in 2006 for the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, regarding the Taliban in Afghanistan:

"The fact is, except in a training capacity, Al Qaeda hardly has any presence here. This is logical: Why would Al Qaeda send Arab or Chechen operatives to notoriously chauvinistic southern Afghanistan, which hated the domineering Arabs when they were guests of the Taliban, and where foreigners stick out like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer? For ideological combat against the West, Iraq is a far more convenient and penetrable battleground, which is one reason why countless more Americans die there than in Afghanistan."

"The steadily worsening situation in southern Afghanistan is not the work of some ineffable Al Qaeda nebula. It is the result of the real depredations of the corrupt and predatory government officials whom the United States ushered into power in 2001, supposedly to help fight Al Qaeda, and has assiduously maintained in power since, along with an "insurgency" manufactured whole cloth across the border in Pakistan—a U.S. ally. The evidence of this connection is abundant: Taliban leaders strut openly around Quetta, Pakistan, where they are provided with offices and government-issued weapons authorization cards; Pakistani army officers are detailed to Taliban training camps; and Pakistani border guards constantly wave self-proclaimed Taliban through checkpoints into Afghanistan.

"But beleaguered Afghans have a hard time getting U.S. political and military officials to focus on these two factors, which feed on each other. U.S. personnel cling to the fictions that Afghans are responsible for the local officials who rule over them—despite the overwhelming moral and material support the United States has provided these officials—and that the Pakistani government is cooperating in the war on terror. And so the Afghan villagers, frightened, vulnerable, and disillusioned, are obliged to come to terms with the "fairies who come at night."

This state of affairs is so bewildering that Kandaharis have reached an astonishing conclusion: The United States must be in league with the Taliban. They reason that America, with its power and riches, could bring an end to the "insurgency" in a month, if it so chose. They figure that America remains a close and munificent ally of Pakistan, the country that is sponsoring the "insurgency," and so the continuing violence must be a deliberate element of U.S. policy. The point is not whether there is any factual basis for this notion, it’s that everyone here believes it. In other words, in a stunning irony, much of this city, the Taliban’s former stronghold, is disgusted with the Americans not because of their Western culture, but because of their apparent complicity with Islamist extremists."

65 #59 -- That's the nuanced,multicultural Kenyan/indonesian pronunciation...

66

Dutchland rules!  Now while many don't know me and the bussiness i own unimportant. the simple fact is we need to wake up.  We can pick at the cracks in the wall but we are facing fears many don't realize.  The illness within creeps in the night and a baby boomeer mentality of acceptance is naked to the truth we are open to a threat that is real, that is spreading fast, and we need to stand up, wake up, and protect OUR way of life.

appologize for SP errors/

67 Longer-than-intended post there.. sorry.
The "fairies who come at night" mentioned above are the Taliban, terrorising the locals. (signature moves: rape, throat-cutting and limb-chopping. Also stoning as a daytime group activity. Of death.)

Life under Taliban rule really sounds like something to be avoided. The people who are suffering under it deserve to be rescued more than bombed.

Afghanistan has had a tough time recently - invaded by the British, invaded by the Russians (1 million Afghanis killed, 5 million refugees), and then they had the mad Taliban dumped on them, not entirely of their own choosing or making.

68

Second point.

New National Security Policy: Two muslim countrys who want to duke it out... let em.  Then kick the ever lovin shit out of the winner!

69 O.U.  you make it sound like the Afghan's are innocent, pastoral lambs set upon by wolves.  Their byzantine political mix of ethnic and clan relationships has repeatedly opened the door to those foreign wolves by design or inadequacy.  Their complicity in the Taliban insurgency is due to a lack of action on their part. 

We gave them the means to call for help, provide information, and defend themselves from the Taliban.  They choose to tolerate the Taliban because they fear for our continuing commitment and the economies of the drug trade. 

The Afghans need local leadership that is willing to wean them off of the drug trade and muzzle radical preachers, unfortunately the same "leaders" profit from the trade and rely on those same preachers to control the people and legitimatize their rule. 

The solution may not be "750kT of American Sunshine" but eradication of the poppy and central government control of the clerics.

70 "Only Barry could Nuke Pakistan"

Say, isn't that a Klingon proverb?

71 Pakistan's Frankenstein monster turns on its creatorPBS just finished airing this in documentary this evening.

72 Dr Pakistan has created a monster and its come back to destroy him

73 Snakes... Why did it have to be snakes?

Well, Junior, at least it wasn't rats.

74 You could feed me a quarter-pint of castor oil and sit me on the pot and I would still be completely unable to give a shit what happens to the fucking Pakistanis. I saw stickers in bus shelters in England in 1997 stating that voting was Haram because all power derived from Allah. This is not a minority viewpoint. Pakistan has overtaken Saudi Arabia as the chief enemy nation. The majority of the population hates our guts and would cheer if a nuke went off in Manhattan (or Knightsbridge, for that matter). I used to live, inoffensively, in what can only be described as a Muslim ghetto. When I quit the UK in '99 I was marginally tolerated in the neighbourhood in which I lived. I'd probably have been forced to flee by now. And it's not the older generation. My Muslim next-door neighbour was a nice guy who would keep an eye on the place if I were out of town for a few days. The ones who would give me the hot-eye glance as if to say, "we see you, and will let you be...for now" were all adolescents and twenty-somethings. It's very hard to describe the miasma of fear the native population felt in that area without coming across as some sort of segregationist bigot, but it was there. If anything, the people that were most victimised were the non-Muslim minorities. My Sikh friends, of which I had a few, felt particularly under threat. As for secular Moslems - Katy bar the door. A secular Syrian friend married an atheist (lapsed Catholic) girl from Santander. The outrage among the Saudi (i.e. Wahabbist) contingent in my department was palpable. I'm well out of it.

75 #41
No shit...errr...well.. sherlock!. It was an awesome late summer/early fall here watching the simulated dogfights coming over the mountains. Floating in the pool and the air seems to shake for a second and before you can say wtf? there they go at crazy low alts banking, barrelling, and burners blasting. I had to change my pool filter alot this year.

76 Jean, of course the Afghanis need to establish by force a just rule of law - no Taliban, no mujahadeen warlords, no corrupt police and government.  Not sure if they're in good shape to do it. I  think most people in Afghanistan never particularly enjoyed being ridden by the warlords, or dealing with the predation of other armed forces like the Pakistani-funded Taliban.

The average Afghanis are poor and uneducated. They've been bled by three foreign invasions, four if you count the Pakistani-funded Taliban. Their ability to stand up to the Taliban, who are a trained and armed fighting force capable of engaging the Allied military on the ground, is precisily nil.

So yes, I do feel some sympathy for them - poor luck to them for being at a geopolitical point of significance in Russia and Britain's Great Game, and then again as part of key routes for the oil pipelines, with the special attentions of Soviet Russia to deal with. It's difficult not to feel that they've had quite a rough time.

77

#57-Steve,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Nixon a Nat'l Sec. Advisor for like 4 Presidents? I think BO would do well to ask for W's help. I think time will come when he is sneakin and dialing him up at 3 a.m.

 

Aren't we supposed to call it Pok-ee-stahn now? Isn't that how PEBO says it? I think we would be well advised to follow our ruler!! After all, he has spent time there as a lad.

 

I've reached the point I just want to carpet-bomb the entire region. A total do-over.

78  o.u. - that was pure bullshit. The problem is one word - Pashtuns. Look em up

79 Frank G - your 'Pashtun' explanation is BS . What is it meant to explain?

80 Sandman, you missed a few letters:  Crotchcheese, Stupidstan.

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