November 18, 2009
— Ace Unmentioned here in the article: His insistence that the way to get a handle on asymptotic spending curves is to spend more on health care.
Gotta spend to save.
President Barack Obama gave his sternest warning yet about the need to contain rising U.S. deficits, saying on Wednesday that if government debt were to pile up too much, it could lead to a double-dip recession....
His administration was considering ways to accelerate economic growth, with tax measures among the options to give companies incentives to hire, Obama said in the interview with Fox conducted in Beijing during his nine-day trip to Asia.
"It is important though to recognize if we keep on adding to the debt, even in the midst of this recovery, that at some point, people could lose confidence in the U.S. economy in a way that could actually lead to a double-dip recession," he said.
I read this as a first tentative justification for raising taxes generally. He speaks in terms of a "tax measure," I suppose along the lines of the idea floated months ago by conservatives, to cut the payroll tax temporarily. But of course he refused to do that before. Now, if he does so, it will be presented as part of an initiative that raises taxes generally, with a small proposed cut in withholding taxes.
I enjoy the way this article is framed: Obama is "warning" us that out-of-control spending could lead to a double-dip recession. He's warning us, you see. All along he was the guy fighting to keep spending down and we were insisting on ballooning the deficit to trillions of dollars per year until the time-frame of near-future science fiction -- basically, he wants to run a trillion+ deficit until Neuromancer is less a science-fiction book than a slice-of-life drama of manners -- and now he's going to put a stop to our profligate ways.
What? Who the hell is he warning? Is this some kind of Gollum-like internal struggle we're witnessing?
I Wonder If This Has Anything to do with Anything: Obama's idiotic counterfactual rhetoric -- positioning himself as a deficit-fighter, conveniently on FoxNews, which may be expected to reach the most persuadable independents -- seems in line with Democrats' sudden discovery that independents are moving hard to the conservative side of things.
Mounting evidence that independent voters have soured on the Democrats is prompting a debate among party officials about what rhetorical and substantive changes are needed to halt the damage.Following serious setbacks with independents in off-year elections earlier this month, White House officials attributed the defeats to local factors and said President Barack Obama sees no need to reposition his own image or the Democratic message.
Since then, however, a flurry of new polls makes clear that Democrats are facing deeper problems with independentsthe swing voters who swung dramatically toward the party in 2006 and 2008 but who now are registering deep unease with the amount of spending and debt called for under Obamas agenda in an era of one-party rule in Washington.
A Gallup Poll released last week offered a disturbing glimpse about the state of play: just 14 percent of independents approve of the job Congress is doing, the lowest figure all year. In just the past few days alone, surveys have shown Democratic incumbents trailing Republicans among independent voters by double-digit margins in competitive statewide contests in places as varied as Connecticut, Ohio and Iowa.
I guess we see the rhetorical adjustments in Obama's interview -- he'll "warn us" about his own ruinous spending, like Ike Turner warning Tina that she has to stop making her hit her.
Baby, you know I love you, don't you? It breaks my heart when you make me punch you in the eye.
Quinippiac finally shows Obama under 50%, at 48%. (Whoops-- 48%, not 49%. I had Rasmussen on the brain. Rasmussen has had Obama at 49% so often it just became my automatic belief, that whenever he's under 50%, he's at 49%. Nope -- one point lower than that.)
I find it interesting that the media chooses to blame this state of affairs on one piece of ambiguous evidence -- that is, they blame it on growing dissatisfaction about the war in Afghanistan. That's ambiguous, because of those expressing a lack of confidence, some will be on the right, urging Obama to stop dithering, and some will be on the left, urging defeat and surrender.
Contrast that with Obama's drooping numbers on the economy, where there is no possibility of ambiguity -- people oppose him because the economy is in the crapper and the most he seems able to do is flush more money away.
So, needing to explain Obama's fading appeal, and given two possibilities, one which tends to neutral or even support the leftist narrative, and the other which tends to clearly refute the leftist narrative, the media of course goes for the former.
You Can't Make a Red Flag Without Red Ink: 12 trillion in debt, and Obama proposes adding to this another nine trillion over, IIRC, the next ten years.
Steven Hayes, I think, had a cutting comment on the Bret Baier show last night: "When even Chinese communists are warning you about the rate of expansion of government, you're doing something wrong."
Posted by: Ace at
09:14 AM
| Comments (124)
Post contains 912 words, total size 6 kb.
Posted by: bjjfiter at November 18, 2009 09:16 AM (TdgA9)
Obama must destroy America in order to rebuild it
Posted by: eddiebear at November 18, 2009 09:16 AM (wnU1W)
Posted by: bjjfiter at November 18, 2009 09:17 AM (TdgA9)
Clearly he's just speaking truth to power.
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 18, 2009 09:17 AM (VpMnC)
lol @ "in the midst of recovery"
Shit, if this is a recovery, I'd hate to see what an Obama recession looks like.
Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 18, 2009 09:17 AM (Uf4aV)
Posted by: runninrebel at November 18, 2009 09:18 AM (i3PJU)
Posted by: bound4er at November 18, 2009 09:18 AM (RjUC6)
Posted by: eddiebear at November 18, 2009 09:18 AM (wnU1W)
Posted by: Naan at November 18, 2009 09:19 AM (YR3gL)
Posted by: bound4er at November 18, 2009 09:20 AM (RjUC6)
The Gollum was made of clay, not shit.
Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2009 09:20 AM (2qU2d)
Just waiting for him to start with the "it'll pay for itself" line
Posted by: eddiebear at November 18, 2009 09:21 AM (wnU1W)
Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2009 09:21 AM (BkxSy)
Posted by: Triumph at November 18, 2009 09:21 AM (lDdA/)
How can the person holding the camera while he says this not burst out laughing?
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 18, 2009 09:21 AM (SqAkN)
Sorry, I thought you said "Golem". Never mind.
Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2009 09:22 AM (2qU2d)
Posted by: Dr. Spank at November 18, 2009 09:22 AM (muUqs)
When I finally placed where I'd seen the guy before, I got a good laugh out of it.
Posted by: grognard at November 18, 2009 09:22 AM (v0kvW)
Any of your knob-polishers ever show you the course of the USD under your rule, Barry?
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 18, 2009 09:22 AM (VpMnC)
Posted by: bonhomme at November 18, 2009 09:24 AM (yJtrs)
I laughed 'til I choked on this.
The happy-go-lucky body surfer Barry is struggling to contain the suicide bomber Hussein.
Posted by: toby928 at November 18, 2009 09:25 AM (PD1tk)
Posted by: mokimoki at November 18, 2009 09:25 AM (IrV7s)
Posted by: eringobragh at November 18, 2009 09:27 AM (XqEBL)
Posted by: Barbarian at November 18, 2009 09:27 AM (EL+OC)
Posted by: TheQuietman at November 18, 2009 09:28 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Dave at November 18, 2009 09:28 AM (Xm1aB)
No. The Precedent loves saying stuff like this. He just gets a kick out of it. He is like the used car swalesman who enjoys playing games with the customers (like seeing if he can get the customer to enter the car by one door and exit by another) except that in this case, the customers are a captive audience who have to buy the car.
I didn't see Major Garrett's interview, but if he didn't point out, at least, 25 lies that the Traitor-in-Chief has told and asked him, "Why do you lie so much?" then this was a worthless interview.
Until people start publicly confronting The Precedent with the fact of his very much sub-par intellect and his hate for America the downward spiral will not be slowed, at all. People need to start calling The Precedent, "stupid", because that is exactly what he is. They also need to call him an America-hater, because that is the essence of his life.
All this beating around the bush, even if The Precedent admits to the obvious - such as the fact that the US is being driven into the ground - is absolutely worthless.
It also would have been nice to have a question along the lines of, "You said that you were the first Pacific Precedent. First of all, why do you consider the Pacific coast of the US not to be Pacific enough and, secondly, did you mean that you grew up in Indonesia and have the sensibilities of an Indonesian, not an American?" There should also be a question about Indonesian citizenship in there.
But ... none of this will happen and the US will just continue down the abyss.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 18, 2009 09:29 AM (A46hP)
Posted by: joncelli at November 18, 2009 09:30 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: toby928 at November 18, 2009 09:32 AM (PD1tk)
It's a "W-shaped recession."
Posted by: tachyonshuggy at November 18, 2009 09:33 AM (yUybe)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 18, 2009 09:33 AM (SqAkN)
I enjoy the way this article is framed: Obama is "warning" us that out-of-control spending could lead to a double-dip recession. He's warning us, you see. All along he was the guy fighting to keep spending down and we were insisting on ballooning the deficit to trillions of dollars per year until the time-frame of near-future science fiction
"Obama the deficit fighter." I predict that he gets away with this Big Lie. I will believe this until I see evidence to the contrary. So many people don't look, listen, or give a damn.
Posted by: Wm T Sherman at November 18, 2009 09:33 AM (w41GQ)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 18, 2009 09:34 AM (SqAkN)
Posted by: Triumph at November 18, 2009 09:35 AM (lDdA/)
Posted by: Triumph at November 18, 2009 09:37 AM (lDdA/)
Double dip. Heh. Barry the teabagger.
How do you warn a leftist with two black eyes? You can't. He's already been 'warned' twice.
Posted by: U.S.S. Yorktown at November 18, 2009 09:37 AM (5RlWq)
Anyone else notice Obama has a habit of saying I, like in his speeches, when speaking of good things but uses WE when speaking of bad things?
'Everything is better since I was elected but WE need to stop spending so much money."
"My administration will save us from the depths of despair but WE need to do more."
Who the hell signs the checks anyway? Hello?
Posted by: Rocks at November 18, 2009 09:37 AM (Q1lie)
The Constitution is our vial of Ëarendil's starlight. It doesn't have much power, glowing rather dim in this noisome place.
Posted by: toby928 at November 18, 2009 09:41 AM (PD1tk)
If this is how we individual Americans work to manage our budgets and incomes, why the heck can't the government do that? I don't care about re-electing you, or making sure small segments of the population feel the love. I want to keep what I make, give to charities I believe in, and be taxed enough to provide for the security and defense of our nation, and our cities (local/state.) Not provide a dang buffet for everyone to belly up to and eat their fill at my expense. Not when my kids and I are eating cheap ground chuck to cut costs.
This, this right here, why is it that our conservative party leaders (with the exception of Palin who does voice this kind of stuff regularly) aren't smart enough to seize on this sentiment and run with it? MokiMoki is 100% right here and this kind of talk is what Americans need to be hearing. Not yet another take down of Palin's new book.
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at November 18, 2009 09:42 AM (RZ8pf)
mokimoki for Congress!
Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 18, 2009 09:42 AM (NtiET)
These guys don't drink their own Kool-Aid ?
Posted by: Neo at November 18, 2009 09:43 AM (tE8FB)
Posted by: moron # 324576234 at November 18, 2009 09:44 AM (p1s9n)
And commies know what you have to do to fix it, if you want you and your pals to keep your jobs running shit: Kill tens of millions of people. Just like random example Bill Ayers said.
We'll see, I guess.
Posted by: oblig. at November 18, 2009 09:44 AM (aK/MY)
Hell, the "sorry, we have to increase taxes" speech is probably loaded into the teleprompter already, just waiting to be delivered.
It'll be along the lines of having to combat the deficit borne from the problems he "inherited". And the trillion or so he threw down a hole? Totally necessary and effective. Unavoidable even. Because of the problems he inherited you see.
Oh, and by the way- let's spend another trillion dollars on health care reform, because it'll save us $200 billion. Or something.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 18, 2009 09:46 AM (plsiE)
Posted by: toby928: time traveler at November 18, 2009 09:48 AM (PD1tk)
Posted by: Jones at November 18, 2009 09:49 AM (KOkrW)
Posted by: Mallamutt at November 18, 2009 09:51 AM (V9SYy)
He's going to outsource our defense to the Canadians. When's the last time they were attacked?
Geeze, we'll have to drain all the maple syrup out of the submarines and put the battleship back together...it'd be nice to have a steady gig though
Posted by: CanaDave at November 18, 2009 09:52 AM (rua8W)
Posted by: OCBill at November 18, 2009 09:53 AM (WGXy4)
Posted by: Mallamutt at November 18, 2009 09:54 AM (V9SYy)
Those independents aren't coming back for quite a while. They've seen what economic devastation Democrat control of all branches of government yields. They may dislike the Republicans, but they are realizing the Republican taste for hurting them isn't nearly as unquenchable as the Democrat's.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 18, 2009 09:55 AM (DnDjx)
Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 18, 2009 09:57 AM (NtiET)
This makes Canadians seem reasonable. WTF?
I'd really like to wake up soon. This nightmare is bad.
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at November 18, 2009 09:57 AM (dQdrY)
On a completely unrelated note, Amy Winehouse is scheduled to give a speech about the need to crack down on drug abuse.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 18, 2009 09:59 AM (plsiE)
They've seen what economic devastation Democrat control of all branches of government yields.
If they are unhappy now, just wait for the endgame. Hope it will still matter.
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at November 18, 2009 10:00 AM (dQdrY)
And, as with all things Obama, the rhetorical will outweigh the substantive by about 1000:1.
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 18, 2009 10:00 AM (VpMnC)
I'm on the rice & beans diet. Beef became a wistful memory 6 months ago.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 18, 2009 10:00 AM (DnDjx)
The nice thing about Obama and the Democrats is how much they underestimate the intelligence of the American people and overestimate the patience of the American people.
Every single cockamamie scheme proposed by Obama is great for the economy and will create jobs.
--The Stimulus is great for the economy and will create jobs.
--Cash for Clunkers is great for the economy and will create jobs
--Cap & Trade is great for the environment...and great for the economy and will create jobs.
--Health Care Reform is great for health care...and great for the economy and will create jobs.
--Amnesty for illegals is great for the economy and will create jobs
--The Olympics in Chicago is great for the economy and will create jobs.
--Buying a boondoggle prison in Illinois to house terrorists is great for the economy and will create jobs.
--Buying GM is great for the economy and will create jobs
--Investing billions of $$ in green technology is great for the economy and will create jobs
What's next?
Raising taxes is great for the economy and will create jobs
Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 18, 2009 10:01 AM (z37MR)
Hey, Barry, we got the message already. See, when they came and took our job, our house, our car, and our first born child, we figured out we might have over-extended ourselves. So save your breath, us simple folk have figured it out all on our own, you mutton head. Now, how about you take a look in the mirror and listen to yourself, sans teleprompter. If you still don't get it, here is the message you need to hear: STOP SPENDING EVERY FREAKING DIME YOU AND THE REST OF THE IDJIT POLITICIANS CAN GET YOUR GRIMY HANDS ON! No more shit with healthcare, cap and trade, bailouts, handouts, payouts, payoffs, raising taxes, lowering healthcare benefits, and cash in the freezer.
Surely, most of us aren't stupid enough to believe that you are now a reformed, renewed, dyed-in-the-wool, fiscal conservative who is genuinely worried about anything other than whether your pants are perfectly creased, and who you might find to bow to next. Oh, wait...
Posted by: mikeyslaw at November 18, 2009 10:02 AM (QMGr1)
Posted by: rockhead at November 18, 2009 10:03 AM (RykTt)
Posted by: toby928: time traveler at November 18, 2009 10:04 AM (PD1tk)
OK, once again I will take the bait here-
What republican 2012 contender has made a balanced budget a priority?
What is the conservative plan to balance a 1.4T deficit?
Everytime I ask this, I get a lot of flaming replies, snarky comments....but never, ever, a serious answer. Which is why the conservative movement lost me somewhere around 1996, when I realized they weren't serious about fiscal conservatism.
Posted by: Reason60 at November 18, 2009 10:05 AM (ogXbt)
On a completely unrelated note, Amy Winehouse is scheduled to give a speech about the need to crack down on drug abuse.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 18, 2009 02:59 PM (plsiE)
Ha! Sweet!
Posted by: mikeyslaw at November 18, 2009 10:05 AM (QMGr1)
In Feb/Mar you might have gotten the mesmerized public to even swallow that one...now, not so much.
The instant Obama starts talking about ass pounding the middle class his approval numbers are going down into the 40's.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 18, 2009 10:05 AM (DnDjx)
basically, he wants to run a trillion+ deficit until Neuromancer is less a science-fiction book than a slice-of-life drama of manners
Hey, nice mention of one of my favorite novels! Who do we get to fill the role of Molly, though? Slicey-dicey fingernails and all??
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at November 18, 2009 10:06 AM (ERJIu)
Mmm, submarine-aged maple syrup. Who wants pancakes?
Posted by: bonhomme at November 18, 2009 10:07 AM (yJtrs)
Posted by: barack hussein obama at November 18, 2009 10:10 AM (PD1tk)
Irrelevant. Obama was elected as (!Bush). He will by unelected by anyone who isn't an ax murderer or space alien as (!Obama).
The Republicans could run McLame again and he'd beat Obama in 2012.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 18, 2009 10:10 AM (DnDjx)
Hey, give me some credit.
No taxes on axes!
Posted by: Friendly Neighborhood Ax Murderer at November 18, 2009 10:19 AM (VpMnC)
60 Somebody somewhere is doing some Focus Group polling and coming up with assuaging words to feed to the populace. Let's just hope is doesn't work as well for Bambi as it did for Bubba in '95-96. Anyone wanting to see how Bubba did it in '96 take a look at this.
Somehow, I don't think Obama comes off as charming as Clinton anymore. He's getting more and more arrogant even as his performance numbers wane.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at November 18, 2009 10:21 AM (9hSKh)
Somewhere a flushed Lindsey Graham is fumbling his cell-phone, trying to calm himself for this important phone call: He has polling data that indicates McCain should try One More Time!!
Posted by: bonhomme at November 18, 2009 10:22 AM (yJtrs)
24 Obama makes me feel so guilty.
Guilty, nothing. I spend my free time at work plotting escape routes for when the Unity Police come to get me for not buying health insurance after my company drops its policy as too expensive. (It's a Canuck company. I give it two weeks before the boom drops.) I figure if I can make it to the parking lot, I'm home free ...
Posted by: Joanna at November 18, 2009 10:25 AM (gJQTg)
In the end, the American people will have let Barry down. With their selfish desire to eat and stuff, they just weren't worth of him.
Posted by: toby928 at November 18, 2009 10:26 AM (PD1tk)
In the end, the American people will have let Barry down. With their selfish desire to eat and stuff, they just weren't worth of him.
Don't forget the racism, cracker.
Posted by: His Most Supreme Intergalactic Reverence THE Reverend Al Sharpton, Reverend. at November 18, 2009 10:31 AM (ERJIu)
Posted by: mokimoki at November 18, 2009 10:37 AM (IrV7s)
Reason60 at November 18, 2009 03:05 PM (ogXbt)
I'd venture to say no one on this site has ever flamed you for advocating for a balanced budget. I call that Perot Paranoia.
Posted by: polynikes at November 18, 2009 10:45 AM (m2CN7)
polynikes-
I get flamed for pointing out that it is mathematically impossible to balance the budget without either:
1. Raising taxes;
2. Cutting SS/ Medicare;
3. Cutting Defense;
4. A combination of the above.
This is why Palin/ Romney/ Jindal/ et. al. refuse to make a serious stab at it- the political realities are too tough, too unpopular. And they know it.
So they just wave vague assertions that they will somehow, magically find a way to be "fiscally conservative".
Posted by: Reason60 at November 18, 2009 10:52 AM (ogXbt)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 18, 2009 03:00 PM (DnDjx)
May I suggest the back alleys of Moscow? Hobos, the other, other, other, really other white meat.
Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Wicked High Temps in the Core of the Earth at November 18, 2009 10:53 AM (erIg9)
It's like the time Dad called me down to the bar to give me a stern warning about the dangers of alcohol.
Posted by: Warden at November 18, 2009 11:01 AM (QoR4a)
No way, the Independents are not stupid, not by any long shot. Middle class and Independent, he's already lost the 2010 elections for the Dems by shooting the moon at them.
Never give up, never surrender
Posted by: elclynn at November 18, 2009 11:06 AM (IcUsw)
Posted by: elclynn at November 18, 2009 11:17 AM (IcUsw)
Posted by: Reason60 at November 18, 2009 03:52 PM (ogXbt)
I don't know about getting flamed, but SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense compromise pretty much the whole budget.
Even given that, you are wrong, anyway. The growth rates of the un-Constitutional federal entitlements need only be reduced below the growth rate of the economy. Actual cuts in them would be nice, especially as they are un-Constitutional, but the economy can outgrow any program, so long as that program's growth rate is suppressed and economic growth is enhanced. Of course, the left works to do exactly the opposite.
Your idea to put raising taxes in there, as if that enhances revenues to the government over time, is mistaken. The idea of needing to raise taxes to close budget gaps is only an answer when someone stupidly proposes that the budget must be balanced in the next week.
Fiscal conservativism (and I don'[t speak for anyone but myself) is served by keeping the growth of federal spending below the growth of the economy and wealth. That's pretty much all that needs to be said about it. Your analysis is static, in nature - which is why you included the tax raising in there. One can be a fiscal conservative by supporting the massive building of nuclear power plants, reducing our current account deficit immeasurably and strengthening the dollar. Etc.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 18, 2009 11:18 AM (A46hP)
Barack Obama: foreign policy expert, job creator, life-saving health care provider,...and super defecit hawk.
Posted by: MSNBC at November 18, 2009 11:19 AM (wAQA5)
so the Chicoms warned him. He gives an interview and sounds like he has "seen the light". Says he's going to turn over a new leaf yadda yadda.
When he doesn't - what do you think the Chicoms are gonna do? Its not like they are prissy little wanna be's like Obama. They are going to say give us Hawaii or else - we'll take it. Yep they are going to repo us one state at at time. Eventually you will wake up the resident of a client state. Kinda like what happened to Twaiwan.
Posted by: Joe at November 18, 2009 11:22 AM (YwBI6)
4. A combination of the above.
That's really the only sensible option, but political suicide for anyone who proposes it. I hate to say it, but it would probably take someone along the lines of a dictator to actually chop down the nation's debt at this point, because Congress is far too embedded with lobbyists and various special interest groups to EVER authorize such a budget.
Keeping in mind the debt ceiling is a little over $12.1 trillion, this is probably why Obama is making this little "we have to tighten our belts" announcement now--he knows damn well the country's about to be overdrawn on its credit card, he's just trying to find a way to not have to take the blame for it.
Posted by: David Axelrod's Combover at November 18, 2009 11:22 AM (/Pw+r)
Posted by: Joe at November 18, 2009 11:22 AM (YwBI6)
I think everyone is missing the point here. Obama is saying this on FOX. By saying it on Fox (the largest audience he can get now, he is trying to convince people that what they have been hearing on Fox is not true. The "truth" is what he sasys, not what Fox has been saying. Land shark time.
Posted by: fightobama at November 18, 2009 11:32 AM (6IV8T)
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Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at November 18, 2009 12:16 PM (dQdrY)
Baby, you know I love you, don't you? It breaks my heart when you make me punch you in the eye.
golden stuff, Ace. Terrific work. All this rhetoric is meant, I believe, to set up a year's effort before November 2010 to make the Democrats seem like budget hawks. Will it work? I dunno, the press still has some amazingly svengali-like powers over voters.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at November 18, 2009 12:23 PM (PQY7w)
Ummm, isn't this what the "stimulus" was supposed to do?
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