July 13, 2008

Obama: 9/11 Attack The Result Of Attackers' "Fundamental Absence Of Empathy"
— DrewM

The New Yorker has a big article on Obama. I haven't read it all yet but there are some interesting excerpts out there already.

Here's Obama from a 9/19/01 speech.

We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness. The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.

We will have to make sure, despite our rage, that any U.S. military action takes into account the lives of innocent civilians abroad. We will have to be unwavering in opposing bigotry or discrimination directed against neighbors and friends of Middle Eastern descent. Finally, we will have to devote far more attention to the monumental task of raising the hopes and prospects of embittered children across the globe—children not just in the Middle East, but also in Africa, Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe and within our own shores.

I guess my thought that the attacks were carried by evil thugs in furtherance of a murderous ideology would be viewed as insufficiently nuanced by Obama.

It seems, at least from this excerpt, that from the start Obama viewed 9/11 as a call to engage in global social work. I have to admit, 8 days after September 11th those weren't exactly my concerns and not really the priorities I'd want in any President faced with that situation.

Also from this article...As a state Senator, Obama threatened to kick the ass of a fellow Senator.

If the media is starting to get curious about the pre-2004 Obama, this could get very interesting.

There's no truth to the rumor Hillary was heard to shout "I told you!" when she saw the story.

Posted by: DrewM at 12:45 PM | Comments (134)
Post contains 393 words, total size 3 kb.

1 One has to wonder...is Hillary! using pawns in the media to plot a return?

Posted by: Uh, Clem at July 13, 2008 12:53 PM (CNAh+)

2 Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.

Bullshit. The Glasgow/London plotters were doctors. The two chiefs of Al Qaeda are wealthy, educated "men". It grows out of a hatred for America and the West.

Posted by: Benson at July 13, 2008 01:13 PM (qzcNU)

3 > ... it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair. Dude. M. Atta had a college degree in Architecture, his two sisters became a zoology professor and the other a medical doctor. Poverty? Nope. Ignorance? Nope? Helplessness & Despair? Well, I can't get inside his head but...

Posted by: Arthur at July 13, 2008 01:14 PM (uSbc8)

4 Benson! You're a genius! (and you type faster than me.)

Posted by: Arthur at July 13, 2008 01:15 PM (uSbc8)

5 In one sense, he isn't precisely wrong. Yes, the attack was due to a lack of empathy. However, the cause of this lack was not poverty, or despair, or any of the Left's endless excuses -- it was instead a fanatic belief that one should feel no empathy for heretics. This fanatic level of intolerent belief is being taught by many radical imams and VERY few preachers and rabbis (the 'God Hates Fags' people and some extreme Zionists -- but there's not many of them and they tend to be despised by more rational folk). The difference being, most Christians and Jews remember the costs of fanaticism and reckon those costs are too high to accept that kind of behavior. But try to point it out about the radical Muslims, and you're a raaaaaaaacist.

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at July 13, 2008 01:16 PM (zyrxg)

6 It is not an absence of empathy on the part of the islamic terrorists-- it is the presence of empathy that makes terrorism attractive. They do know that their actions will cause heartache and suffering, pain, and desperation. That. Is. The. F****. Idea. If it were not to cause pain why else would someone intelligent enough to operate a large passenger jet crash it into a large building with the intent of destroying the people on the plane and the people in and around the building? That is the audacity of their hope. They hope our fear will suit their purpose.

Posted by: Potosi Joel at July 13, 2008 01:18 PM (TPRbZ)

7

Obama Polling Station # 1,469

Moderator:

"Ok...For the next question, I'm gonna need a show of hands from everyone in the audience over the age of 80..."

"...How many of you would NOT have voted for FDR had his principal concern in 1942 been the underlying, deep seeded, pshychological reason ToJo & Company blew the fuck out of Pearl?"

"Also, would he have got your vote if FDR spent scandalous amounts of tax payer money on further study into why they hate us?"

"Or would you have given a damn if FDR had relied exclusively on the heavy naval cannons of HOPE and B-17s dropping bombs full of CHANGE to prevent the Japenese rampage across the Pacific?"

.........

"I see no show of hands. Does that mean no one disagrees?"

"Great. I'd like to thank the students here at Booker T Washington Highschool for having us at this mandatory assembly."

Obama 08!

Posted by: Lamontyoubigdummy at July 13, 2008 01:19 PM (QWmsF)

8 THIS is what you get with a "community organizer".

Posted by: catmman at July 13, 2008 01:24 PM (UNZaA)

9 Hey, at least he didn't find 9-11 to be a learning moment to further combat global warming.  right?

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 13, 2008 01:43 PM (QxSug)

10 Of course, McCain will jump on this.

In December.

Posted by: eman at July 13, 2008 02:00 PM (WWkFI)

11 Obama:
makes. me. want. to.
vomit.

Posted by: joe at July 13, 2008 02:01 PM (5zUu/)

12 I don't have any problem with people discussing the socio-political implications of such things. I do think, though, that if someone wants to kill you that it is prudent to kill them first. That way you can discuss the problem at your leisure.

Posted by: tasteslikechicken at July 13, 2008 02:11 PM (dv3IW)

13 Dems in general consider 9/11 to have been a criminal act, not an act of war.

Everything they have done since that day is consistent with that belief.

They never would have invaded Afghanistan, instead they would have sent envoys there to beg for forgiveness.

Posted by: eman at July 13, 2008 02:11 PM (WWkFI)

14 Does this mean that Root Causes ™ are, or are not, a distraction?  I'm having a hard time keeping up with which distractions I need to ignore...

Posted by: Fred (no the other one) at July 13, 2008 02:28 PM (rPYT+)

15 Mccain and bush would agree with the sensible parts of this... that we have to be careful not to be bad guys, that we should try to qwin hearts and minds, that the real evil is how Bin Laden just didn't care about all the death and suffering he caused.

That Obama thinks this is helpful wisdom says a lot about how he sees the military and flyover country.  We didn't need those tips.

The points about poverty are true to some extent.  Sure, Bin Laden was rich, but his lackeys usually are very poor with no education or opportunities.  We have to fight regimes that permit such squalor, because hopeless people are naive people.

but the real problem is that the world is allowed to hate the USA, jews, whites, Christians, etc.  That tolerance of hatred has nasty consequences.

Posted by: ghy at July 13, 2008 02:29 PM (8jYMc)

16 This is all good; it means that al-Qaeda leaders aren't the sort of people Obama would want to nominate for the Supreme Court. Up to now I'd have said there was room for doubt on that score.

Posted by: Cerebral Paul Z. at July 13, 2008 02:32 PM (lAS+u)

17 I guess we should just kill the poor.

Posted by: Anoni Moose at July 13, 2008 02:33 PM (Yhg6b)

18 raising the hopes and prospects of embittered children across the globe—

What a fucking dipshit. 


Posted by: Warden at July 13, 2008 02:37 PM (KXbGD)

19

funny, just today I was googling around looking for any quotes by Obama just after 9/11.  I could find NOTHING.  So I tried searching google archives, and still no luck.  I'm glad to have the info.

Posted by: jmb at July 13, 2008 02:52 PM (zyrL5)

20 But Oblamo was not suggesting that the US & the West in general understand the islamist fanatical movement in a clinical sense. He and his fellow travelers view all situations through the lens of self-debasement, that guilt soaked hatred of everything our civilization is. He was offering yet again that delusional bargain of redemption that can only be had if we destroy everything that made us successful.

It's another page in the Left's neverending willful ignorance. The islamist terrorists were never motivated to get the West to help the world's poor, blighted, and desparate. The Left refuses to acknowledge their murderous philosophy that has been so often plainly stated it is almost become a mad farce, like a Python sketch become real.

Leftist: We understand your anger toward us in the US. We really do.
IslamoNazi: No, you don't. If you understood it you would bow to Allah and slay your fellow countrymen.
L: Now, now you don't really belive that.
IN: Um, yes, we do.
L: No, no, that's just the poverty talking.
IN: Poverty? Poverty? I was educated at two universities. I have a Master's Degree in Engineering. I can name my price at any engineering firm from Dubai to Jakarta. Poverty. No, my friend. It's just this simple; you love life, and we love death.
L: And by love death, you mean you look forward to the death of Bush, yes? See, we're on the same page! Death to Capitalism while were at it!
IN: Kuffir, do you see my shoes? Look very closely. No, bend lower.

Posted by: adamthemad at July 13, 2008 02:52 PM (VCQYg)

21 Some people are too stupid to be allowed in public. Obama is one of these.

McCain is too damn nice to do anything with this. Which is why Obama, rather than being shoved in to a closet and the door nailed shut, will be President.

Posted by: SGT Dan at July 13, 2008 03:23 PM (EsBr1)

22 Bush handled it the right way. Kill enough of the m'fers and the others will hesitate to join al qaeda. It becomes a bad career choice. Enough of this hand wringing  & mental masturbation about root causes.

Posted by: joe at July 13, 2008 03:33 PM (5zUu/)

23 Dems in general consider 9/11 to have been a criminal act, not an act of war.

...

They never would have invaded Afghanistan, instead they would have sent envoys there to beg for forgiveness.

Well, no. To be fair, the Dems would have acted quickly and decisively. They would have flown into Kabul and started handing out subpoenas.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 13, 2008 03:40 PM (4q4S5)

24 The cover of this issue of The New Yorker is causing quite a stir.  I just got back from viewing Huff Po and the comments range from  praise to outrage and charges of Rovian  plots.



 

Posted by: eman at July 13, 2008 03:48 PM (WWkFI)

25 Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair. Islam.

Fixed.

(and I'm sorry if this is an insult to any sane, moderate Muslims reading this, but dudes, your religion is broken and you need to fix it asap)


Posted by: OregonMuse at July 13, 2008 03:51 PM (4q4S5)

26 4 The cover of this issue of The New Yorker is causing quite a stir.  I just got back from viewing Huff Po and the comments range from  praise to outrage and charges of Rovian  plots.

I just went to their cartoon slide how and I mentally erased each caption and substituted it with 'Christ, what an asshole.'  I was surprised how well this worked.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 13, 2008 03:58 PM (4q4S5)

27 The islamic terrorists may not have shown empathy towards us, but I am all for showing empathy to them. I just want our empathy to be delivered in the form of explosive overpressure and bits of lead traveling at 980 meters per second.

Posted by: Tushar at July 13, 2008 04:27 PM (PTWes)

28 they wre just being good muslims. they were following the koran according to the prophet. the bad muslims are the ones that don't follow the letter of the koran and in our eyes they are the  good  muslims but they are really the bad muslims according to the koran. it's so simple.

Posted by: pby at July 13, 2008 04:47 PM (MMczV)

29 So basically, terrorists all need a big group hug?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 13, 2008 05:01 PM (loWAm)

30 Revenge of the Old Site strikes again.

Ace, time to move. Seriously.

Posted by: adamthemad at July 13, 2008 05:04 PM (VCQYg)

31 9/11 attack was caused by "Fundamental Absence Of Empathy" and crazy ass jihadis, but mostly crazy ass jihadis.

Posted by: Ostral-B Heretic at July 13, 2008 05:10 PM (9u8Jf)

32 His judgment has always been suspect.  Its going to be a long summer for the O.

Posted by: toby hussein 928 at July 13, 2008 05:15 PM (PD1tk)

33 If terrorism were poverty related, Haiti would be a nation of terrorists.  Haiti is not a nation of terrorists.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 13, 2008 05:16 PM (loWAm)

34

I did the math,  the amount of money spent by Al-Qaeda training pilots, funding the other training, paying the expenses, the box cutters, the travel, et cetera for the WTC attacks would have saved the lives of 327,894 children.

Go figure.

 

 

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 13, 2008 05:17 PM (UeP9e)

35 Well, he is right about the jihadis having a lack of empathy.  Psychopaths cannot feel empathy.  But that is just a sideshow issue.  Dealing with the jihad-bots is doing things symptomatically.  What you do is go for the psychopath leaders and financiers, and we know who they are.  You hurt THEM, personally.  Then they will back off.  An excellent example is when Reagan bombed G'Daffy's tent and killed his wife and child.  G'Daffy backed off for a while.

We have been using up troops and supplies at a rate that we cannot sustain, when we should be the meanest S.O.B. on the block and send the message, concise and quick.  We need to be feared, respected, and loved, in that order, by our enemies.

Remember who finances the Madarasas, and who spreads Islamic terrorism and misery all over the world, from Indonesia, to southern Thailand, the Philippines, Chechnya, to the Sudan.  There are yer targets, boys and girls.

Posted by: Alaska Paul at July 13, 2008 05:22 PM (rMkgW)

36 Here he goes again with the "bitter" nonsense:

...we will have to devote far more attention to the monumental task of raising the hopes and prospects of embittered children across the globe...

That's what it's all about with Obama and the Left -- people's feelings.

And these are the people governing us?

Posted by: Bart at July 13, 2008 05:24 PM (qRb3C)

37

Wake me up when either party is ready to ditch the root causes bullshit and go back to killing them wherever we find them, as opposed to talking tough and doing kabuki dances for domestic and international theatre.

Posted by: MlR at July 13, 2008 05:30 PM (PLmsY)

38 As a bitter gun clinger I could give a shit less about the angst that drives jihadi murderers . They bought into this fight , now they can reap the whirlwind.
That is all.

Posted by: aubrey at July 13, 2008 05:38 PM (JjkyX)

39 Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.

Bin Ladin is a millionaire.

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at July 13, 2008 05:41 PM (bY275)

40

Lord, could Obama be more of a pussy?

Posted by: UGAdawg at July 13, 2008 05:45 PM (vfDNl)

41 All those fuckers led comfortable, though, closeted homo, lives. 

Posted by: GRC at July 13, 2008 05:47 PM (7s17w)

42 I haven't read the whole article yet either, but the excerpts I've read are pretty interesting. It seems to be a chronicle of all the calculations Obama made after moving to Chicago, and the Greyhound-load of folks who've gotten an intimate look at the undercarriage of said bus since the Messiah first graced that fair city. Duh, I know all politicians make these moves, but Obama's Chicago history and his bait-and-switch on the Dems seem particularly cold, especially for a guy who was supposed to be a Hopeful Changey new kind of politician, a lightworker--if you would only just BELIEVE!!!

Posted by: stace at July 13, 2008 05:54 PM (JO0c/)

43 America's under attack!!  Man the soup kitchens!!

Posted by: Barack HUSSEIN Obama at July 13, 2008 06:05 PM (BJuGT)

44 "24 The cover of this issue of The New Yorker is causing quite a stir.  I just got back from viewing Huff Po and the comments range from  praise to outrage and charges of Rovian  plots."

I'm getting dizzy attempting to analyze the stupidity and/or elitism and/or cluelessness and/or I don't know what went into the decision to draw and publish this cover.  Anyone who thinks (or rather, thought) that this cover would humorously deflate the memes of Obama not being good on security (homeland, national, etc) was and is a colossal imbecile (and probably an arrogant one).  The cover is a gift to all who dread Obama winning, and corroborates what sane people should not think/rely upon:  that the Dems, and the Left is/are their own worst enemy.

Posted by: ParisParamus at July 13, 2008 06:07 PM (ETj1R)

45 Same shit, different spin. They just want us to lie down and take it. Never submit.

Posted by: O can KMA at July 13, 2008 06:20 PM (h/5U0)

46
Hmm, Barry goes after someone saying he's gonna kick their ass, and he excuses the 911 shitbags as saying they just didn't feel things enough.

Then why did Barry want to kick someone's ass? Didn't he feel any empathy?

Of course, anything that has ever come out of Barry's mouth has a high degree of being total bullshit.

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz at July 13, 2008 06:21 PM (vFeQi)

47 Oh I get it, the perpetrators of 9/11 were just bitter and they were clinging to their guns and religion.
And only Lefty can make them see the error of their ways.

Posted by: DesertSage at July 13, 2008 06:24 PM (1Igdk)

48

I did the math,  the amount of money spent by Al-Qaeda training pilots, funding the other training, paying the expenses, the box cutters, the travel, et cetera for the WTC attacks would have saved the lives of 327,894 children.

Indeed, it will be a great day when our madrassas get all the money they need and al-Qaeda has to hold a bake sale to buy a suicide bomber's vest.

Posted by: DelD at July 13, 2008 06:29 PM (jt9I3)

49 As a state Senator, Obama threatened to kick the ass of a fellow Senator.

Honestly? Did the other Senator laugh? I mean if it was Michelle I might be a little worried, but Mr. pussified Hope & Change? Bring it, asshole.

Posted by: Andy at July 13, 2008 06:30 PM (23Gys)

50 I guess we should just kill the poor.>>>

OMG, that is the quote of the year!

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 13, 2008 06:54 PM (EojLz)

51 when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail and when you're a commie, everything looks like the class struggle

Posted by: billypaintbrush at July 13, 2008 06:56 PM (BPXvY)

52 Read 'Milestones' by Qutb. This will brush the scales from your eyes. Not very long, and it gets interesting around page 10.

Posted by: ahem at July 13, 2008 07:02 PM (a5NMh)

53 The cover is great, incidentally: O! an Michelle as a couple of radicals. Capture it before it's disappeared...er, changed.

Posted by: ahem at July 13, 2008 07:04 PM (a5NMh)

54

"Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."

Obama predictably trots out the standard community-activist excuses for the corruption, drugs, lawlessness, and fatherlessness endemic to the Democrat-controlled inner-cities of America.  It doesn't apply to global wars fueled by 1500-year-old religious hatred, but hell, it's the only song he knows.

Go ahead and sing it, fool.  All your supporters know the words by heart.

Posted by: sherlock at July 13, 2008 07:07 PM (ojW85)

55 We're fucked.............If McCain doesn't hold this up, and beat Barry over the fucking skull with it, I'll cut the RNC a check for 500k. Then stop payment on it....If they call to question why, I'll explain that I've never spent money on pussy before, and I'm not starting now!

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 13, 2008 07:34 PM (ilXxm)

56

Oddly, I also "viewed 9/11 as a call to engage in global social work".  However, I define "social work" as being the outright, merciless slaughter of our enemies wherever we can find them 'round the world.  Historically, I think the most successful "social work" the US has ever conducted has been the obliteration of thugs and evil idologies.  It may take us a bit to get to it, and may take even longer for us to find the right "strategery" to get the job done, but our reaction to 9/11 has been classic, and has worked. 

Fucking Obama.  He wouldn't know a good foreign policy position or idea, even Andrew Sullivan tattooed it on his dick and slapped the O'Messiah across the face with it. 

Posted by: Sharkman at July 13, 2008 08:02 PM (UioS4)

57

Evil VS Evil

Me likes

Do as thou wilt

So mete it be

Posted by: Anton Hussein Levay at July 13, 2008 08:07 PM (ca90v)

58

THats real fucking deep.

Here I thought these guys were hate filled motherfuckers who wanted to kill a shitload of people b/c their "god" would have wanted it that way.

Im sure it got him laid when he said it.

Cocksucker

Posted by: TMF at July 13, 2008 08:26 PM (/YM8H)

59 Don't blame me.  I blame the Jooos.

Posted by: The Cartoonist formerly known as Allah at July 13, 2008 08:26 PM (zAvxs)

60

Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.

This is absolutely wrong, dangerously wrong.  Radical Islam is not about poverty, it is about an ideology.  Throwing money at the problem isn't going to fix it anymore than throwing welfare money at the poor solved that problem.

Empty suit.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 13, 2008 08:32 PM (VBon8)

61 We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness.

I understand it perfectly.  They want to kill me dead because I have a vagina and a brain and like using them both.  I, on the other hand, don't give a rat's ass what they think or do as long as they don't try to kill me. You tell me who's the one filled with bitterness and hate.


Posted by: alexthechick at July 13, 2008 08:33 PM (GknYa)

62

On a slightly more serious note -

Reading Obama's speech I was struck by the parallels in a speech made by the best Democratic President in history, Jed Bartlett1.

Obama's speech echoes the themes in Jed Bartlett's "Education Speech" he made right after the fictional bombings by right wingers at a university natatorium.

I'm guessing that Obama watched West Wing when he was a mere slip of an Illinois State Senator.  I'm guessing that He watched it *a lot*, especially since Aaron Sorkin, the creator of West Wing,  is nothing if not oratorical in his writing.  Remember Sorkin's other works?  Sports Night? too witty to be funny, even when William H. Macy stepped in and kicked ass in an almost Bruce Campbell-esque manner.    The American President?  Same deal, with Charles Grodin playing the role played by William H. Macy.

Obama is running the West Wing campaign, specifically, the Jimmy Smits one. 

-

1)  for all its liberal fluffer/nutter stuff on domestic issues the West Wing featured some of the most hardcore "kick the arabists in the crotch" action on fictional television - from the assassination of Sharif to Toby's "They (the Arabs) will like us when we win" speech, to CJ's "Our Friends the Saudis" to Jed Bartlett's "protected by nothing more than "I am a US Citizen" speech, along with John Amos's turn as the Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs --

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 13, 2008 08:43 PM (UeP9e)

63

Any chance someone will start producing YouTube videos of Obama speeches with corrections for (truth | facts | adult understanding of the matter | etc.) interspersed between BHO's pontifications?

Right after BHO's line :

"Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."

  a factual correction, listing the truths from posts 2 & 3 (the economic truth about OBL, alZ, Atta & his sisters, living confitions for the clerics in KSA, etc.) would be quite revealing.  Written fiskings are painful, and video ones even more so.

I suspect that BHO would melt, many posters on KOS, Huff Po, DU, would suffer group aneurysms, and there would be a major AP/NYT investigation.

Posted by: Arbalest at July 13, 2008 08:44 PM (XUQkf)

64 Alexthechick, I've met women with Vag's of  crabs, syphilus, gonerrhea, and purple diabunghee. Now that is hate. When they tell you the next morning. Since they slept with me, they obviously have no brain at all....Alex, I'll take Vag of hate. Do I win a prize, or did I get the question completely wrong?...Oh, it wasn't a question was it?...Sorry.

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 13, 2008 08:49 PM (ilXxm)

65 Do I win a prize

I'm thinking a lifetime supply of antibiotics.

Posted by: alexthechick at July 13, 2008 09:07 PM (GknYa)

66 Thanx AlexTC. It sure beats crying in the shower while I scrub my No-No with a wire brush. ..Of course seeing a Barry speech and his stupid, brainless epiphanies without a teleprompter make me want to scour my eyeballs....Articulate black man is rascist? Perhaps, but it sure doesn't apply to this dork. He makes Bush II look like Mark Twain/Will Rogers when he has to "Freestyle". Arrogant or stupid, this man scares me in to voting for McCain. Sadly,(tm Daschle INC.) this is the only reason I can yank the R lever for Potus.

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 13, 2008 09:20 PM (ilXxm)

67

Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.

Yeah, I mean how could us flyover yokels overlook the coincidence that Saudi Arabia and Iran, the biggest nurturers and exporters of terrorism in the world, are like also dirt poor places, seeing as how they have no natural resources of much value or anything!?

Those of us who didn't go to Harvard would never have figured that out without you, dude.  Thanks a bunch.

Posted by: sherlock at July 13, 2008 10:06 PM (ojW85)

68 Why couldn't Gary Coleman have run for President?


Why? Why? Why?

At least then, there's a chance he would have been funny on purpose!

Posted by: Merovign at July 13, 2008 10:20 PM (UXoQt)

69 Obama is right, but he could have just called them psychopaths or sociopaths, which is what someone without empathy is. I forget which one is the strict definition.

Also, I have actually met an Islamic fundamentalist in Indonesia in 1991. I was an exchange student there for 18 months at the time. He approached me in a bookstore and I was waiting for what craziness would come out of his mouth, but he actually was very polite and just wanted me to confirm one thing..."Are the Chinese the Jews of Asia?"

Hmmm. Maybe if I was a progressive I would have answered "Yes" and we could have had some tea.

Posted by: Aaron at July 14, 2008 01:35 AM (jd0Wt)

70 On a related note, this just in from an unnamed news source, "5 men plead guilty in trans-Atlantic airline plot."

From reading the article, I'm not sure if the 5 men were Islamic fanatics or not. If only there were some clue. Maybe one of you morons could research them and let me know. To help get you started, their names are Abdulla Ahmed Ali, Assad Sarwar, Tanvir Hussain, Ibrahim Savant and Umar Islam.

The word "terrorist" never appears in the article.

I hate to say it, but as asymmetrical warfare tactics go, you have to hand it to these bastards for using our political correctness against us. I don't know if they planned that or just swerved into it, but whatever the case, it has worked pretty well.

Posted by: Andy at July 14, 2008 02:39 AM (23Gys)

71

"Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."

But I understood that the majority of those carrying out 9/11 were middle to upper middle class kids, most of whom were in or just graduated from college- what gives, Urkel X?

And Andy-

According to the article yahoo is pimping about the trans-atlantic airline plot, the suspects are claiming they were doing it as a publicity stunt for a movie they were working on...no, seriously- that's what the article said.

Posted by: o'dumma as cahtuh at July 14, 2008 03:04 AM (I/JNA)

72

Hey, O'Bambi.  It's called HATE.  They hate us because we are not like them... a cult built around a murderous pediphilia loving psychopath.  Plus they hate us because of the freedoms we have.

But all we have to do to end the hate is just adopt their ways and ideas.  Then everything will be just fine... for them.

Posted by: Lurkin_no_mo at July 14, 2008 03:31 AM (6zvrq)

73

"We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness."--BHO

Fall curriculum will not only include elementary Spanish, but Koran now.

Posted by: maverick muse at July 14, 2008 03:42 AM (F1b/5)

74

I'm not interested in the warp and weft of these peoples' motivations. I used to be; I thought that thinking about their worldview would shed helpful light on why they do the things they do.

No longer. The Islamic faith holds no fascination for me, and I couldn't care less than I do why they're angry. I just want our side to kill as many of them as necessary to put an end to this nonsense. If that means eradicating their twisted desert religion, I don't care. Islam shows me no redeeming characteristics, and history proves that it's been nothing but an impediment to civilization. If taking the religion out will stop these savages from killing people who don't believe in their filthy, subjugating practice, I say take it out root, stalk, and bulb.

Posted by: railwriter at July 14, 2008 03:44 AM (nwEiU)

75

Posted by: railwriter at July 14, 2008 08:44 AM (nwEiU)

Having welcomed them into our living quarters throughout Western Civilization, what to do with the resent and vengeful Islamics who have legal residency and citizenship here and elsewhere after the blood letting you'd have?

Simply put, there is no final Islamic solution beyond prophesy (that you propose). Thank God that we have Gen. Petraeus, his loyal staff and others to figure out offense/defense for America. Support them. Trust in their expertise.  But domestically, America must begin using the Sedition Act and prosecute treason as it has not done. THAT requires government officials to perform their sworn Constitutional duties, and THAT requires personal responsibility. THAT is exactly what Obamarx lacks. Obamarx's only consistent feature is irresponsibility.

Posted by: maverick muse at July 14, 2008 04:24 AM (F1b/5)

76 The Daily Obama has a 2000+ response whinefest about the cover. This after years of applauding any moron who drew Bush as a monkey.

Posted by: Dirk at July 14, 2008 04:49 AM (AJx67)

77 Can Obama get any creepier? Yes, he can! http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=12831

Posted by: rinseandspit at July 14, 2008 04:55 AM (ao5cQ)

78 dohrn and ayers weren't driven by poverty to do what they did and think how they did-why should the murderous fanaticism of the jihadist be any different?

Posted by: ejo at July 14, 2008 05:53 AM (Urhve)

79

Well, no. To be fair, the Dems would have acted quickly and decisively. They would have flown into Kabul and started handing out subpoenas.

Actually, they would have fisrt scheduled Congresional hearings, then gone on a fact-finding mission to Switzerland, but only if the skiing was good.  If not, the facts would probably be hiding somewhere in the Caribbean.

Posted by: Steve L. at July 14, 2008 06:12 AM (o0YD+)

80 The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others.

I'm pretty sure Obama is a sociopath. 

That's the thing about sociopaths -- they can diagnose themselves pretty effectively.  They know they have no empathy.  They kinda like it.  The intelligent ones realize that their total lack of empathy can be a source of power.

So, when Obama diagnoses Atta and company as incapable of empathy, he's really describing himself. 

Of course, he then takes this sliver of insight and then immediately uses it to propagandize with the Left's favorite trope -- how poverty is the root cause, blah blah blah. 

I'm really beginning to think that, when it comes to Obama, there's no there there.  The lack of a father.  The unstable residence all through childhood.  The ability to shift positions so easily.  The preference for speaking with a script, delivering lines like an actor.  And why shouldn't he?  He's been an actor all his life. 

Posted by: Phinn at July 14, 2008 06:38 AM (NLtoU)

81

I'm really beginning to think that, when it comes to Obama, there's no there there.  The lack of a father.  The unstable residence all through childhood.  The ability to shift positions so easily.  The preference for speaking with a script, delivering lines like an actor.  And why shouldn't he?  He's been an actor all his life. 

Spot-on. In fact, I think it's these characteristics that make him so appealling (read: unthreatening) to voters. Look at the pop culture heroes of today--largely insubstantial, low-intellect professional charmers who leverage looks and a smile, and have little else to offer--but that's okay, because the fan/voter only wants soft candy. The tabloid covers in supermarket lines are chockablock with people just like Brock: thorough mediocrities who are phenomenally popular. Jennifer Aniston? Brad Pitt? Angelina Jolie? What gives? They're walking tautologies: they're famous only because they're famous.

(I know that's not exactly what you were getting at, Phinn; you're right, though; his is a life of fancy footwork to compensate for the personal past you describe...)

McCain has negatives to overcome, because he's done things, and in a world of binary opposition, he's going to accrue some negatives. Brock, who hasn't done a damn thing, has no baggage, so the toothy smile is enough.

Nothing profound here, I know, but it sure is puzzling. 


 

Posted by: railwriter at July 14, 2008 07:08 AM (nwEiU)

82

I propose two policy changes to AoS:

1. No posts for 12 hours automatically triggers OpenBlog

2. I should be added to the roster of OpenBloggers.

SWOT analysis:

Cost: Nothing, apart from Ace having to declare this policy.

Benefits: No readers will ever go through Blog Withdrawl Syndrome™ ever again.

Risk: Tushar will post weird dance video clips of Bollywood films

Opportunity: Tushar will post photos of Bollywood babes.

Posted by: Tushar at July 14, 2008 07:31 AM (IlgNp)

83

Perhaps Bill Ayers can give some lessons in empathy.

 

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 14, 2008 07:38 AM (B+qrE)

84

Let's see...we were attacked by Islamic thugs, supported by a world-wide network and all Obama is concerned about, is the 'innocent' people killed in war.  Not one to dwell on the innocent people slaughtered on 9/11, he prefers to focus on our 'image' abroad and what the world thinks of us.  He's as vacuous on chain of command, military tactics, and strategy, as he is in his approach to world-wide threats.

At least, he's consistent.

Posted by: sfcmac at July 14, 2008 07:51 AM (dfm1X)

85

I addressed the incident of Obama with State Senator Ricky Hendon here in May.  The interesting thing isn't that Obama threatened to kick his ass, the interesting thing is that Obama had to be physically restrained.

Maybe that is why Obama has never made a big deal out of McCain's temper.

 

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at July 14, 2008 07:57 AM (+7+JN)

86 Tushar for president.

Hostile takeover.

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at July 14, 2008 07:57 AM (mcn/h)

87 Allah's back from vacation and blogging away today... and Ace is sleeping in. {insert repurposed forbidden love joke here}

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs at July 14, 2008 08:01 AM (JefgB)

88 Y'know, George Bush also believes in "root causes". He even cites the same ones: poverty, ignorance, and oppression.

The difference is, he knows why they hate us -- because they are taught to do so by their leaders, who use that as an excuse to keep them in poverty, ignorance, and oppression. The function of the Iraq Adventure was to remove such a leader and permit at least one Arab society to achieve wealth, knowledge, and empowerment. It might not work, but it's the only thing with a hope of actually working.

Leftists oppose that, of course. That's because the difference between some billionaire sheikh teaching the rubes to hate Americans for their wealth and power, and Al Gore Gulfstreaming in from St. Tropez to tell everybody how vile they are for using energy, is nil, and they know it.

Regards,
Ric

Posted by: Ric Locke at July 14, 2008 08:07 AM (nNW37)

89

Poverty and ignorance certainly provide the footsoldiers for jihad, but absent those footsoldiers you'd still have a core of violent extremists, educated and pschopathic, trying to kill us all.

Saudi Arabia exports this ignorance, and we'll never win the long-term struggle until we provide an alternative to Wahabbism in the Mideast and central Asia.

Killing the pschos and deprogramming the brainwashed is tricky business and it will cost some money. So I don't have a problem with Obama's prescription, I just can't understand a guy who's thinking this way a week after the attacks.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 14, 2008 08:36 AM (a00go)

90

Poverty and ignorance certainly provide the footsoldiers for jihad

15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were middle or upper class.  Some had been getting advanced degrees in Europe in engineering and medicine and as we now know, some were getting pilots licenses.  These are by and large not dumb or poor people.  They are following a twisted version of a religion that has gone completely off it's tracks.  They aren't doing this for material gain, they are doing for what they believe is the will of God and for their own salvation.

Throughout history, you can find examples from many relgions that have gone wrong and it has been bloody.  The only thing that is going to stop this completely is when the religion is reformed.  We can continue to battle it and should but ultimately it is up to the Muslims themselves to put an end to this shit.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 14, 2008 08:47 AM (VBon8)

91 A moderate Republican senator, tied to the Gang of 14, soft on conservative issues except abortion, is running against a gaffe-prone, inexperienced Democrat. Party regulars are confident the moderate Republican will prevail, because to the Democrat is just too liberal and too inexperienced for voters.

McCain - Obama? No, try the Mike DeWine - Sherrod Brown election of 2006, in a key swing state, Ohio. How did that one turn out?


Posted by: V the K at July 14, 2008 08:50 AM (PLvLS)

92

"So, let's see, free trade is off the table.  Can't invade to install democracy.  But we can invade Pakistan to find Bin Laden.  But we should talk to Hamas, except when we shouldn't.  And poverty and ignorance cause a lack of empathy, except in certain Chicago churches that never exhibited such traits in the twenty years before Rev. Wright went off the deep end and/or the Weathermen.  And can I say all of this at the Brandenburg Gate to look all Presidenty?"

Anyone else getting motion sickness? 

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 14, 2008 08:52 AM (B+qrE)

93

"The function of the Iraq Adventure was to remove such a leader and permit at least one Arab society to achieve wealth, knowledge, and empowerment. "

People with "the soft bigotry of low expectations" think that this is literally impossible.  Bush seems to be on a mission to destroy the illusion.  Many Arabs hold this illusion, and that is a much greater burden to their society then what silly white Americans think.

 

Posted by: Cincinnatus at July 14, 2008 09:06 AM (ZAlQ3)

94

Just read the New Yorker excerpt.  This guy plants his roots wherever he will get the most fertilizer.  Once the soil is barren, he moves on.  Typical politician.

Need support from churches?  Just convert to Christianity. 

Need some radical lift in your sails?  Have lunch with the Weathermen. 

Want some votes from the pro-life crowd?  Just tell them you've changed your mind about that whole partial birth abortion thing.  And don't mention that you went one step further to be one of a handful of senators who voted to let the baby die should it be born alive after a botched abortion. 

Posted by: kevlarchick at July 14, 2008 09:31 AM (TNuqz)

95 Palmer represented Hyde Park—Obama’s neighborhood, a racially integrated, liberal sanctuary—

"Sanctuary"?  Sanctuary from what, exactly? 

Posted by: Loren Heal at July 14, 2008 09:34 AM (s9Ak0)

96 Risk: Tushar will post weird dance video clips of Bollywood films

"Weird." You mean, as compared to the other ghey crap that gets posted here? How bad can these Bollywood videos be?

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 14, 2008 09:40 AM (FO+YO)

97 Palmer represented Hyde Park—Obama’s neighborhood, a racially integrated, liberal sanctuary—

"Sanctuary"?  Sanctuary from what, exactly?

The real world.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 14, 2008 09:48 AM (FO+YO)

98 JackStraw, those 15 of 19 hijackers represent the core of terror I mentioned above. But the guys who are being recruited to cross borders in search of martyrdom at the hands of the coalition forces are madrassah-schooled boneheads from the streets of Lahore and the mountains of the Hindu Kush. They are not the affluent psychos referenced above.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 14, 2008 10:07 AM (a00go)

99

Spongeworthy-

I agree that a good many foot soldiers are from all walks of life including the dirt poor.  But the fundamental problem is not one of poverty, it never has been.  Study after study has borne this out.  In fact, it is pretty obvious that one of the things that pushed some of the origninators of modern radical Islam, people like Qtub, was great familiarity and absolute rejection of modernity and wealth.  Saying poverty causes radicalism is making the same old mistake of correlation and causation.

I'm not trying to nitpick with you but it pisses me off when our supposed betters continue to spout this nonsense.  If they think that this is the cause of radical Islam and then base their policy on it all we are doing is wasting time, money and lives.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 14, 2008 10:20 AM (VBon8)

100

Jack, I'm just as impatient with those who claim the actions of a small but committed group of West-hating psychos means an entire religion is doomed. I believe that to be nonsense. While I agree poverty has fuck-all to do with the problem, ignorance has everything to do with it.

Saudi Arabia is peddling Wahabbism--ignorance dressed up as a committment to Islam--and they need to be stopped. It's all very easy to say we can just kill these brainwashed dopes until martyrdom is no longer an attractive career choice, and that should definitely be a part of our approach. Help these people get a real education instead of a brainwashing and the problem will take care of itself in our lifetime. And it's much cheaper.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 14, 2008 10:42 AM (a00go)

101 Sponge:

The trouble with your analysis is that it's wrong.  Muslims can and do get "real educations" -- and then turn around and kill infidels anyway.  Look at the two guys who so ineptly tried to suicide-carbomb the airport in Glasgow.  They were doctors.  Educated in the West and seemingly perfectly assimilated. 

It's not just Wahhabi Islam, it's Islam itself that's the problem.  It is a religion which cannot coexist with others as equals.  Islam is a conquering religion. 

Just compare the acts of the founders of Christianity and Islam.  Both were persecuted by the orthodox priesthood.  Christ submitted to judgement and accepted his unjust punishment, forgiving his enemies.  Muhammad ran away and hid in a cave, robbing travelers and recruiting followers until he could come back and kill those who once persecuted him.

If you're a good Muslim, you shouldn't tolerate infidels.  Period.  The only ones who can live with the rest of the human species are the bad Muslims.  And since the whole religion is based on the literally inerrant Word of God in the Koran, they can't change or reform the faith.  For twelve centuries all "reform" movements in Islam have been toward a stricter and less flexible interpretation of the Koran.  Wahhabism is a reform movement.

We can't reform Islam.  We can only go on beating it -- unless you want to actually exterminate an entire religion, which I doubt.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 14, 2008 11:02 AM (wl9Tm)

102 We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness. The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate;
This bit isn't bad, but...nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.
He's a classic multi-culturalist and a socialist.  Or, if you prefer something simpler: stupidly idealistic to the point of being suicidal.

Posted by: TheUnrepentantGeek at July 14, 2008 11:30 AM (PzAVj)

103 GAH!  Blockquote FAIL!

Posted by: TheUnrepentantGeek at July 14, 2008 11:31 AM (PzAVj)

104

"If you're a good Muslim, you shouldn't tolerate infidels."

That isn't even a part of Wahabbism, let alone any kind of mainstream Islam. If you actually believe it is then I can see where the rest of your post is coming from. But it simply isn't true.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 14, 2008 11:42 AM (a00go)

105 The man who shot and killed President Lincoln was an upper class actor. Killers often do not have economic motive.

Posted by: Aaron at July 14, 2008 11:43 AM (LpQ5A)

106 On the bright side, at least we potentially get a new AoS headline next time the military wipes out some Taliban sub-humans:  Eight Taliban killed by Hellfire missle and lack of empathy, but mostly by Hellfire missle.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 14, 2008 11:51 AM (plsiE)

107 I vote yes for Tushar's idea.

Posted by: nikkolai at July 14, 2008 11:52 AM (iOKLn)

108 Spongy:  don't take my word for it, here's what Allah has to say:

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[4.101] And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.

[9.73] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[25.52] So do not follow the unbelievers, and strive against them a mighty striving with it.

And, Spongy, if war against the unbelievers isn't part of modern Islam -- why do so many Muslim mullahs and madrassahs teach it?

You are denying the truth because it is painful and unpleasant:  that there are a billion people out there who want you dead.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 14, 2008 12:26 PM (aoXvS)

109

Wahabbis teach it. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody teaching it in Shia Islam at all. It's far too common in Sunni Islam but nowhere close to universal. Infidels have lived alongside Believers for hundreds of years, that's historical fact.

A billion people don't want you and I dead. That's just silly.

I have no more to say on the subject.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 14, 2008 12:58 PM (a00go)

110 Suppose there were a country on Earth that was entirely run by Islamic clerics. Would it be fair to judge, based on whether that country was peaceful or warlike, whether that country opposed or supported terrorism, whether the people in that country were relatively free or relatively oppressed... what the true nature of Islam was? 

Posted by: Socky at July 14, 2008 01:25 PM (PLvLS)

111

No Osama, No Obama, and No Chelsea's mama. Wake up white america, stop feeling the "white guilt". Don't vote this communist muslim into the highest office of our beloved nation. The more you read about Obama the more you will realize that he is a fraud and his wife an anti-white militant. Yeah, I sat in my church for 20 years and never heard my pastor say one bad thing about whitey.  What am I a F**king idiot!!!

Posted by: Tony "The Tiger" at July 14, 2008 05:21 PM (MD68C)

112 1 Vote for Tushar

As many votes as I can get away with for the Bollywood Babes.

Zero votes for Obama (to help retain some semblance of the "topic").

Posted by: Merovign at July 14, 2008 08:37 PM (UXoQt)

113 Don't blame me V the K. I didn't vote for either of them. Besides, I'm sure Ohio is getting more conservative every day now what with all the Democrats elected in 2006. Imaginary victory is much better than actual victory.

When are you going to stop adding more shit to that sandwich you we are eating?







Tushar, we can't use your plan. We need help now. It would take too long for the pictures of Bollywood babes to appear under your proposal. We must do nothing, nothing at all. That's the only solution.

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