1

The record will show that while Romney was guvnah of Assachusetts, he was outspoken about the threat "muslim terrorists."

I'd like to find out if McCain has ever uttered the "M" word while talking about terrorists.

2 i listen to the great one every day and he has been all over McCain since New Hampshire. There are so many great points here that i don't even know where to begin.

3 If he'll treat Romney like this, what chance does the general public have with this guy?  Even if I hadn't made up my mind to vote against him for other reasons, this incident is telling as it reveals a serious character flaw.

4 Whoa! Bubba Clinton just called for deliberately slowing down the American economy to fight global warming.

Dems have always been carping about the economy and how it is not doing well enough. Will they now credit GWB for caring for the planet all along?

5 Joker McCain: Bleedin' Heart Liberals? Wait'll they get a load of me!

6 I hate empty taunt posts, but... _<snicker>

7 McCain's contempt for his opponents won't play well in the general election.  He'll either be accused of hating Obama for his race, or hating Hillary because she's a girl.  Either way, his debate anger will be spun as...what's that?

Obama and Hillary are both Democrats?

Oh, never mind then.  He'll be amicable and friendly to both of them.

8 I'm going to be fair here to McCain even though I do not support him. There is a difference between saying he thinks Alito is too conservative and saying he thinks Alito is not the kind of conservative he would nominate because he wears his conservatism on his sleeve. The end result is the same; he won't nominate an out-loud conservative because he doesn't want the ideological fight. But perhaps, giving him huge benefit of the doubt, he would nominate someone who was a little more circumspect about his ideology.

9 Off topic but interesting: Railgun tested in Virginia:

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15185759/detail.html

10 Bubba Clinton just called for deliberately slowing down the American economy to fight global warming.

I was the original environmentalist.

11 "he wore his conservatism on his sleeve.'"

Which means exactly what? He doesn't socialize with him. He opinions are no more conservative than Roberts. He's not know for giving speeches or publishing op-eds. So, the only thing I can think of that McCain could base his opinion on is one, he is entirely talking out of his ass, or two, it's a swarmy way of saying to the moonbats, that he would not appoint another conservative to the bench wink wink.

12 When is a McCain supporter going to attempt a comprehensive rebuttal of what certainly appears to be a devastating critique from the Right?  Am I missing something here, or elsewhere?  I check RWS site from time to time and I haven't seen it there, and she's about the biggest McCain supporter I'm aware of on the blogs.

13 I didn't see the entire debate last night, but I think McCain said he's appoint judges like Roberts and Alito. Doesn't necessarily mean he was sincere about it, but maybe he's getting the message on the judge issue.

Mc Cain on tv a few minutes ago was implying that he was going to get some of Rudy's endorsers, like TX Gov Perry.

14 Let's try this again with the fkn comments working:

"he wore his conservatism on his sleeve.'"


Which means exactly what? He doesn't socialize with him. He opinions
are no more conservative than Roberts. He's not known for giving
speeches or publishing op-eds. So, the only thing I can think of that
McCain could base his opinion on is one, he is entirely talking out of
his ass, or two, it's a smarmy way of saying to the moonbats, that he
would not appoint another conservative to the bench wink wink.

15 Hands on ears......La La La La La La


And that was my impersonation of the average GOP voter.


That you, thank you, I'll be here all week.

16

Why be fair?  McCain eats babies too.

Levin is unhinged, one of these folks who have now transmogrified the Gang of 14 deal to a veritable "stab in the back" of all that is true and right in American conservatism (a deal that got many solid conservative judges, including possible Supreme Court nominees in a future GOP administration, through)..

McCain is a lib on immigration, but conservatives stymied him.  He said something verboten about Alito, yet voted for him.  He opposed Bush's tax cuts, yet, as the Wall Street Journal now notes,  "now says the Bush tax cuts should be made permanent. He's also endorsed a cut in the corporate tax rate to 25% from 35%, among other tax reforms."

So, when McCain backtracks because of conservative pressure, he's untrustworthy. 

And the biggest laugh?  The conservative hero, the true blue candidate, is Romney, who flips at an Edwardsian rate.  How low can you go?  Sure, champion Thompson or Hunter over McCain for his apostasy.  But Romney?

This is about ego.  No more.  McCain is a dick, and he'll always be a dick, and because he's been a dick to some conservatives, they hate him, which is fine.

But for conservatism to wrap their enmity in  the fabric of saving true conservatism.

Pretty funny. 

17

"Mc Cain on tv a few minutes ago was implying that he was going to get some of Rudy's endorsers, like TX Gov Perry."

 

Well that's good enough for me.  If "governor goodhair" likes him, then anyone else is good enough for me. 

GO MITT!!

18 McCain eats babies too.

So, true. But only after they're sautéed  by RWS.

19

Levin is unhinged...

lol, I know, right.

Dummy up, meat head.

20 Acolytes are hardly the fairest evaluators.  Especially of those "fightin' fer the cause."

21 Fred : When is a McCain supporter going to attempt a comprehensive rebuttal

I've been waiting for that myself. Most all I've heard is "McCain supports the military Rah Rah". And claims he will appoint conservative judges.

McCain supports the military Iraq -- a situation that appears to be gathering momentum towards an Iraq able to stand on its own legs in advance of anything the next president will do. Will McCain actually support say, moving our military into a destabilized Pakistan to secure Nukes? Would he support smacking around Iran if necessary, or maintaining the big-stick diplomacy with the various players in the Axis of Evil?

Even if all the above is an affirmative, is it worth moving the entire party a significant lurch to the left on this one issue?

And Judges? I'm sorry, I don't believe him for a moment.

McCain will appoint conservative judges, by the conservatism he defines himself -- far to the left of real Conservatives, especially as it pertains to the reach of Government and the Judiciary. Which is to say, despite his protestations, no judges like Roberts, Alito, Thomas or Scalia. Expect more Stephens/Kennedy type appointments.

22

Check out the McCain supporters giving us shit for being rightwing extremists.

Guess I don't have to go to dailykos today to be called a fascist and a nazi. I can stay here and read Jeff Larkin's comments.

 

Moderates: FUCK YOU

23

A comprehensive rebuttal to what charges?

That he's a lib on immigration.  He is.  He is also cognizant that his view won't cut it, and has stated that he's committed to border security first.

That he still digs McCain-Feingold?  He does.  So, that's that.  You disgaree with him.

That he voted against the Bush tax cuts?  He did.  He also sports one of the strongest anti-tax records in Congress.

That he was part of the Gang of 14?  He was and conservatives should thank him.  Read Richard Baer   

24

Bart

I called you a fool.  Not a fascist.  Not a Nazi.

Let's be clear.

25 And before I get the whole "where does purity get you" straw man argument, when I speak of real Conservatives I was not very clear -- I mean one who actually is on-board with the majority of Conservative principles.

I have not been a Romney supporter until Fred got out of the race. At that point, the choice was either Romney, Huck or McCain.

Choice is easy of those three. Say what you will of Romney's flip-flops -- that's political reality and at least when he flips, we can hope that he presides on the side he flipped to.

We have clear evidence McCain would not, based on past performance.

26 Would it do any good to tell Republicans that McCain cannot possibly win in November against either Clinton or Obama? I doubt it. In fact, McCain as the nominee is probably a good thing, given the evident mania on the part of the general electorate to elect either a woman or an African-American (or both?). Safe to say, it doesn't matter in our current political climate whether McCain or Romney is the nominee---either will lose to the Democrat nominee. The ensuing disaster will pave the way for a 2012 win by the Republican (probably Romney) candidate.

27

Winner at Comment 21!

"McCain will appoint conservative judges, by the conservatism he defines himself..."

In other words....

And having McCain refered to as "Conservative" may just push me over the edge.

28

Also:
John McCain was part of the infamous Keating Five.
John McCain was responsible for McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, and McCain-Hitler
John McCain once relieved himself on Reagan's grave.
John McCain, if elected president, would pardon Michael Vick and hold a puppy barbeque on the South Lawn.

29

He is also cognizant that his view won't cut it, and has stated that he's committed to border security first.

You buying that?  What about his dissembling about how he'd vote today on his craptacular amnesty bill?  Or his semantics games on whether he's supported amnesty or not?  Why shouldn't conservatives suspect that he's gonna try again when its obviously an issue he feels strongly about (temper tantrums in Senate cloak rooms) and he's likely to have a sympathetic, Democrat congress to work with?

He also sports one of the strongest anti-tax records in Congress.

Can you explain his oft-stated rationale for opposing the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003?  You know, where he mimicks the class warfare rhetoric of his "good friends" on the other side of the aisle?

30

I've no problem with supporting Romney over McCain.  I supported Thompson over both.

What I see now, however, is the infantilism that often grips movement conservatives when they don't get all they want.

McCain is not just at odds with them.  He's evil.  A liar.  A dangerous rogue who will undermine all that is right and holy. 

 

31

A comprehensive rebuttal to what charges?

And don't play stupid.  Read Levin's article.

32 When is a McCain supporter going to attempt a comprehensive rebuttal of
what certainly appears to be a devastating critique from the Right?

Well, they can't; not and support their candidate.

In 2005, McCain sued the FEC to bring all internet communications (blogs, e-mails, everything) under the Campaign Finance regulations.

To support McCain on the internet, and to be intellectually honest and avoid doing something that McCain wouldn't support; you'd have a whole raft of restrictions.

You'd need to clearly state your real name, not give more help than you could give for "in kind" donations, have your donations accepted and approved by the candidate; and avoid certain types of political communication within 30 days of an election.  Otherwise you'd be doing exactly what McCain sued to try to prevent, and you'd be offending McCain while trying to help him.

But once the elections are all over, you'll hear from them.  Just not now.  They need to stay silent in respect and solidarity with their chosen candidate.  He'd want it that way, and in fact enacted legislative and legal action both to attempt to force everyone to obey these rules.

33

Gang of 14 deal to a veritable "stab in the back" of all that is true and right in American conservatism (a deal that got many solid conservative judges, including possible Supreme Court nominees in a future GOP administration, through).

You are delusional or lying.

1) The deal had nothing to do with SCOTUS nominees.

Again, nothing.

2) Do you mean "many solid conservative judges" like Miguel Estrada? Or like William Haynes and Henry Saad?

How many confirmations took place in 2007?

Your answer will be rather illuminating...

34

<i>You buying that?  What about his dissembling about how he'd vote today on his craptacular amnesty bill?  Or his semantics games on whether he's supported amnesty or not?</i>

Short of a blood oath and a child hostage, I dont' see you buying anything he says.

So "Go Romney!  When He Flip-Flops, It's As Good as Gold!"

 

35 If conservatives get worked up opposing McCain, it seems to me like its just returning fire with fire.  McCain relishes sticking it to conservatives, why isn't turn about fair play?

36

Way to sell your candidate, Jeff Larkin.

 

And Michael Deere is right, McCain will be a huge loser in the general election. Nobody is going to vote for a mummy -- the man is 72 years old.

37 Jeff - HTML tags don't work in the new comment thing.

38 So, that's that.  You disgaree with him.

No one has to vote for him. So, that's that.

McCain is not just at odds with them.  He's evil.  A liar.  A dangerous rogue who will undermine all that is right and holy. 

 And he eats babies. Don't forget that.

39

Oh,

[There are] “greedy people on Wall Street who need to go to jail”

-John McCain 1/30/08 on the “subprime crisis”

Sounds like a regular fiscal conservative to me!

40

"So, when McCain backtracks because of conservative pressure, he's untrustworthy. "

Exactly.  When one's first instinct is to do the liberal thing, and is only forced to do the conservative thing after pressure is applied, that person does not engender much trust that he will do the conservative thing the next time.

"And the biggest laugh?  The conservative hero, the true blue candidate, is Romney, who flips at an Edwardsian rate.  How low can you go?  Sure, champion Thompson or Hunter over McCain for his apostasy.  But Romney?"

Jeff, in your fit of laughter you might have forgotten that Thompson and Hunter are no longer candidates for the office some of us think McCain to be unfit.

41

Read the article on the Gang of 14 by Richard Baer and then you can label him delusional or a liar.  If you want to be wistful about the nuclear option, and the lost opportunity, think on how it might be used now.

Again, though, we didn't get Saad or Estrada (who withdrew before the gang of 14 deal) so . . . . SELL OUT!

The construction of myth is fascinating.

 

42 #23 That's your defense of McCain? Holy crap that's funny.

43 Jeff, I don't think your 'assholes for McCain' bit is going to win anybody to your cause.

44

Sub

Thanks.  Last time I posted here, it was etchings in stone.

45

Short of a blood oath and a child hostage, I dont' see you buying anything he says.

And if that's true, I would say that your boy's very public statements and demeanor are the reason why. 

You aren't interested in discussing why conservatives dislike McCain or the extent to which he deviates from conservative orthodoxy.  You want to convince everyone to wave their pom-poms and support the GOP team, come what may.  Your comments are preemptive strikes against movement conservatives who are very strongly considering sitting this one out, whether that means not voting, or not volunteering, or not contributing money, etc.

In short, you really don't give a shit about the substantive policy discussions or the direction the party is taking.  You want to wave your foam "we're #1" finger around and have the rest of us do the same, even though we've got serious issues with McCain and this primary ain't over yet.  No, thanks.

46

Read the article on the Gang of 14 by Richard Baer and then you can label him delusional or a liar. 

I read it, and it's bullshit.

I said you, that is you, are either delusional or a liar.

Learn to read, dumbass.

47

My comments are not cause driven.  I fully understand the limitations here.  But like a Mormon missionary at a house where he is not wanted, I must persevere. 

48

Hey Jeff.  How about his gang of 5.  As slublog authored :

John McCain - Even His Scandals Are Bipartisan

49 Before the debate, I was thinking we should get behind McCain while the Dems are squabbling, since all the party establishment is doing so, and we want to get our shit together first.  (the party to coalesce behind a nominee first wins every time).

Like I said, before the debate last night.

(I think the Alito thing can be read to say he'd nominate more stealthy conservative judges, so that's fine)

But hell, if the McCainiacs are going to be assholes about it, let's give them a fight.

And Jeff, I think the point is that Romney's a bad choice, but less bad by far than McCain.

I'd still rather McCain just sack up, play nice with the conservative wing of the party, and get our act in gear. 

If he's going to keep being a jerk, why the hell not oppose him?

50

The construction of myth is fascinating

Your ignorance of the topic should prevent you from commenting on it.

we didn't get Saad or Estrada

Nor Haynes.

And again, how many confirmations took place in 2007?

Consult your dipshit article for that and get back to us.

51

you really don't give a shit about the substantive policy discussions or the direction the party is taking

Untrue.  I saw this nonsense when we lost the Congress.  And now, with 2 liberal Supreme Court justices on the door of death, you don't just want to champion Romney over McCain (fine by me), but you want to so sully and demonize McCain that you'll take Clinton or Obama nominees based on cloakroom scuttlebut.  And then, you'll say you did it for your principles.

Infantilism.

 

52

Jay

Do you think the slow pace of nominations might have something to do with the change in control of Congress?

No.  Couldn't be.  It's all McCain's fault.

53

(a deal that got many solid conservative judges [through]

Uh, like all of these?

1.  Appellate nominees confirmed during a president’s final two years:

Carter—44

Reagan—17

G.H.W. Bush—20

Clinton—15 (7 in 1999, 8 in 2000)

G.W. Bush—5 (with just over a year to go) 

2.  Hearings on appellate nominees in president’s next-to-last year:

Clinton—10

G.W. Bush—4 (with just over a month to go)

 

Seven nominees—Shalom D. Stone (3rd Circuit, New Jersey), Judge Robert J. Conrad (4th Circuit, North Carolina), Duncan Getchell (4th Circuit, Virginia), Steve Matthews (4th Circuit, South Carolina), Judge Catharina Haynes (5th Circuit, Texas), Raymond M. Kethledge (6th Circuit, Michigan), and Stephen J. Murphy (6th Circuit, Michigan)—await their hearings.  Kethledge and Murphy were first nominated in June 2006, and their nominations were resubmitted in March 2007.  Stone, Conrad, and Haynes were nominated in mid-July 2007.  Getchell and Matthews were nominated in early September 2007.

54

Do you think the slow pace of nominations might have something to do with the change in control of Congress?

Idiot: your own link said that 3 judges were confirmed "immediately after the deal"

I then named 3 that have not been confirmed, and were in fact killed by the deal.

Nice to see you conflate the issue with SCOTUS though. That's all you have.

For the record,

Kethledge and Murphy were first nominated in June 2006,

I bolded it for you since you're an easily misled simpleton.

 

55 And Michael Deere is right, McCain will be a huge loser in the general
election. Nobody is going to vote for a mummy -- the man is 72 years
old.

I'm no McCainiac, but this, right here? Fucking insane.

McCain is by several orders of magnitude the most electable Republican candidate in the race. With Giuliani out, he's the only guy who has a legitimate hope of "expanding the map" and competing in purple and light-blue states. Like it or not, his "maverick Republican" persona plays real well with moderates and independents. Moreover, regardless of whether he's got one foot in the grave, he's got an incredible amount of cachet with the MSM, and that's worth points in the polls.

Compare and contrast with Romney, whose appeal is pretty much limited to the people who voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004; who's pretty much the Republican version of John Kerry in terms of his constancy on issues of importance; and who the media thinks is an asshole.

I take no position on the relative merits of the candidates. To my mind they both suck ass. But people who think McCain is unelectable need to stop drinking the bong water.

56 From the HA headlines, a story about one man's love for Mexico

According to Bild, Krause does not understand what the big
stink is about. "It looks like the [Mexican] ambassador has too much time on his
hands," Krause says, "if he can spend so much time worrying about a
finger in the butt."

Krause told Bild that the song had to be taken with a sense
of humor. "On stage, I also sing the lyric 'Finger in the vagina,
Bosnia-Herzegovina,'" he added. "And nobody has gotten worked up about
that."

No, it's not McCain. But it's funny.

Finger in teh butt Mexico, indeed.

57

First, how do you attribute the slow pace in 2007-08 to the Gang of 14 deal?

Second, if McCain is the nominee, will you withhold support?  If so, your blather about judges is just that, the infantile tantrum of a true conservative who can't support McCain but will gladly help to ensure that 2 Supreme Court nominations of greater importance that 100 appellate nominations go to liberals. 

58

Do you think the slow pace of nominations might have something to do with the change in control of Congress?

But what about the deal! It's a good thing, right?

Appellate nominees confirmed during a president’s final two years

G.W. Bush—5 (with just over a year to go) 

59

Nice to see you conflate the issue with SCOTUS though. That's all you have.

That's the ballgame, jackass.

That's the whole fucking game.

60

First, how do you attribute the slow pace in 2007-08 to the Gang of 14 deal?

Clown, you don't get it. The deal held up conservative nominees, while the Republicans were in control. Which was why it was reached.

Read that again until you grasp it.

 

61

That's the ballgame, jackass.

The gang of 14 deal had nothing, not one single thing, to do with SCOTUS nominees.

 

62

Your take on the deal is akin to liberal empire mongers who bemoan our support for the mujahideen because of the "blowback" of bin Laden.

The deal at that moment was a good one.  You've yet to explain how that deal resulted in the slow pace of confirmations in 2007-08.

63

Jeff, you are crazy if you think McCain will stand up to Teddy K and Joe Lieberman and fight for another Roberts or Alito (let alone Scalia or Thomas).  It's just not going to happen.

Why?  Because he's already repeatedly demonstrated that he's willing to work with the left, while sticking a shiv in the right. 

And he'll justify it by saying there's just nothing he can do otherwise, with the Democrat majority being so strong in the Senate.  And partisan hacks like you will cheer his "pragmatism" and "good sense".

64 How many did the deal hold up?

65

"that you'll take Clinton or Obama nominees based on cloakroom scuttlebut."

You steal a few bases with that statement.

First, I'm not convinced of your premise, i.e. that Romney can't win in the general or that McCain will.

Second, you give offense to those who have specifically cited a long list of reasons to conclude that McCain does not willingly advance many conservative positions.  It is much more than, as you dismissively state, "cloakroom scuttlebut."

66

Fred

Same question to you (as Jay won't answer).

If McCain is the nominee, will you withhold support?  If so, your blather about judges is just that, the infantile tantrum of a true conservative who can't support McCain but will gladly help to ensure that 2 Supreme Court nominations of greater importance that 100 appellate nominations go to liberals. 

67 By the way simpleton clown, if the gang of 14 deal is such a triumph for conservatives, why was it proposed by Harry Reid?

68

BC, you got it backwards, my friend. McCain will be, my friend, the 3rd term of George Bush.

Bush has progressively moved to the Left since he bacame president and McCain will be quite happy and comfortable to pick up where Bush leaves off.

In simple terms for the meat heads, here's why I like Romney: He's more of a Conservative than McCain and he's not an asshole.

The last part, the part about not being an asshole, was a pretty big selling point for me, my friend.

69

Again, I've no problem with you children supporting Romney.

But should he fall short, can you support that demon McCain?

Or will your precious principles interefere? 

70

But people who think McCain is unelectable need to stop drinking the bong water.

McCain is a Senator - Senators almost never win. He's 72 - age will be an issue, especially against a vibrant, young candidate like Obama. McCain has a history of corruption and temper issues that the MSM will gladly point out. McCain is hated by much of the base. He has as much chance of winning as my ass.

71

If McCain is the nominee, will you withhold support? 

Yes.

I will not vote for McCain.

How many did the deal hold up?

Let me try this again:

Appellate nominees confirmed during a president’s final two years:

Carter—44

Reagan—17

G.H.W. Bush—20

Clinton—15 (7 in 1999, 8 in 2000)

G.W. Bush—5 (with just over a year to go) 

 

Comparing to Clinton, at least 10. Comparing to his father, 15.

See???

72

There it is.

A huge concern over conservative nominations demonstrated by a withholding of support for a nominee who could get you a Roberts or an Alito, and even if he were the devil, would still get you more conservative nominees than those proposed by Obama or Clinton.

You're a child.  

73

Bush will have zero confirmations in 2008.

None. The Dems won't allow it.

74 Republican version of John Kerry

This is true of Romney, but only on the level of appealing to the base.  It won't be as significant a factor in the general, but agreed, it's pretty bad.

75

The deal at that moment was a good one. 

That is a debateable assertion.  What's not subject to debate is that McCain was one of a very small number of GOP senators more willing to cut deals that left qualified originalist judges twisting in the breeze in exchange for political expediency and comity with the Left. 

That's McCain's modus operandi, though.  That's just how Maverick rolls.

We'll get squish nominees from Maverick.  At best.  And that's a push.  Status quo ante for a generation or more.  Conservatives deserve better.  You're right, we're close to changing the judicial landscape, but a McCain candidacy doesn't present the best chance for achieving it.

76

Jay

When the deal was struck, how many nominees were jettisoned?  How many were cleared in the 1.6 years the deal was operative?

77 Jeff

That's the ballgame, jackass.

That's the whole fucking game.

You're right.  It is.  And we'll need to get out shit together.

But it would help GREATLY if your man would stop being an asshole to conservatives, at least until the general when we can rationalize such disdain away.

78

Bush will have zero confirmations in 2008.

None. The Dems won't allow it.

Good to see your eye on the ball.

Focus on appellate nominees for a president who does not hold the Senate.

And by all means, do all you can if McCain is the nominee to makes sure Stevens and Ginsberg are replaced by tried and true liberals.

And sleep well to the warmth of your "principles."

  

79

He's 72...

And he looks like a mummy.

 

But I'll still vote for that mummy if he's nominee. Which he won't be, but if he is, I'll pull the lever for him.

 

80 Won't vote for McCain because he doesn't share my precious principles = I'm a child.

If principles aren't precious, they aren't principles, they're platitudes.

Thanks man, you sure you aren't actively working for the dems?  There's a certain mobyish quality to "supporting while being a complete turd".

81

The sidebar highlights another important reason why McCain is not automatically more electable than Romney. McCain has no money and he's not getting any from those of us who support conservative candidates. I believe McCain holds some conservative positons, perhaps for expedience, but he's simply not the kind of guy we're going to pony up for. Ever.

So that leaves him raising money from those supporters of his who don't really know anything but what the media tells them. Those guys spend a lot of money on politics?

The old coot is broke right now. Let's see if he can ding Cokie Roberts for his next round of misleading ads.

82

To answer your question, Jeff, yeah, I'll probably vote for McCain if he's the nominee simply because I vote a straight "R" ticket virtually every time because its easy and extremely rare that I find a Democrat candidate to support.  So, if he's on the straight ticket, he gets my vote.  I hate what the GOP is becoming and these primary fights are the time and place to try and affect the party's direction, but I won't go so far as to support the Democrats since I think they've gone around the bend.

But I won't support McCain with my time or money and I certainly won't try to convince moderates or undecideds to vote for him.  He'll get my extremely passive support. 

83

But it would help GREATLY if your man would stop being an asshole to conservatives, at least until the general when we can rationalize such disdain away.

I fear I have McCain's problem.  I'm mean, thus, your principles and delicate sensibilities come into play.

I'm a conservative, and if there is one thing I loatheabout my ilk, it is this new emphaiss on how they feel and how they are victimized.

Blech.  True conservatives work for their guys, and then, work for the3 best they can get.  They don't take umbrage, have the vapors, and walk away.   

84 Just as Jonah Goldberg pronounced yesterday that 'We Were Warned' by Clinton's and Bush's NEW brand of party leadership (NRO), bear in mind Romney's own promise for governmental change before rallying under Mitt.

85 Bart: I'm not talking about which candidate you like. I agree that McCain is an asshole (though I think you're kidding yourself if you believe Romney's more conservative than McCain). I'm talking about which candidate can win. You claimed that McCain would get demolished in a general election matchup because he's old. I'm telling you that you're nuts. On the sole criterion of winning in November, McCain has much more to recommend him than Romney.

adolfo: It's true that senators almost never win. But should McCain secure the nomination, he'll be running against a senator, so that's a wash. His age might be a factor if he ends up running against Obama, but since Obama's unlikely to win the Democrat nomination, that's not a big worry. The MSM is almost certainly not going to hammer McCain on his "corruption and temper issues", since they freaking love the guy. And, yes, he's hated by much of the base -- but does the base hate him more than they would hate President Hillary Clinton? I doubt it.

86

Fred

He's not my guy either.  Fred Thompson was.  But I'm an actual, you know, active conservative who is on the ground, not in the stars.  So I can't take to my bed and be tepid (or withhold support, like that pussy Jay) when, on the ground, the stakes are so f'ing high.  And they are.  There is Iraq.  There is the war on terror.  There are tax fights in an ugly economic time.

And there are replacements for Stevens and Ginsberg.

So while its nice that you'll flip a lever, if McCain is the nominee, think, sideline your dreaded "principles" and decide how you can best assist conservatism.

By taking to your sanctuary and offering tepid support or going to war with the army you have.  

It ain't about you.

Jesus.  Conservatives used to be men.

87

I take no position on the relative merits of the candidates. To my mind they both suck ass. But people who think McCain is unelectable need to stop drinking the bong water.

I'm not a complete anti-McCainiac.  I'll vote for the guy in the general, but I'm voting for Romney in the general.  But I am starting to worry that McCain is so reviled by a large segment of the right that a rather large percentage will stay home or vote third party, and he simply won't be able to make up those votes with moderates and left-wingers.  I thought Giuliani was unelectable because his pro-choice position would turn off far too many pro-lifers (like myself), and now I am starting to have those same concerns about McCain.  Then again, it's not as though there aren't a fair number of people who seem to have the same level of antipathy towards Romney, especially among social conservatives.

I also don't necessarily agree with the McCain is not a conservative line of thought.  Many of the specific policy positions that he's taken a wrong turn on have not necessarily been unconservative.  But whether or not his actions betray conservative principles per se, he's spent the better part of seven years sticking his finger in the eyes of conservatives, and he may pay the price for doing so come November.

By the way, fellow Fredheads, you will both enjoy and weep over this article from the Weekly Standard.

88

Thanks man, you sure you aren't actively working for the dems?  There's a certain mobyish quality to "supporting while being a complete turd".

Yes, amyone who upsets you must be a mole, a Dem, a danger.

Is the median age here 22?

89

I'll vote for the guy in the general, but I'm voting for Romney in the general

Obviously meant primary in the latter part of the sentence.

90

Enough disparagement of our supposed conservative pussyhood, Jeff larkin--IF THAT'S EVEN YOUR REAL NAME!

Seriously, dude, don't call them my "precious principles" in one breath and then tell me to sack up in the next. Holding principles takes more sack than sucking around after whatever dipshit gets the (R) after his name on the ballot.

My principles can kick your principles ass, dude, so seriously, quit that shit.

91 As I said before, I will not vote for McCain.  If I thought he would nominate conservative judges I might reconsider but I sincerely believe based on his record and statements that at best he would present an O'Connor or a pre-seated Souter type nominee to a Republican majority Senate and an even more compromised nominee to a Democrat majority Senate.  The fact that he will have to deal with a Democrat majority and would be replacing a liberal SC judge, I highly doubt he will be presenting any Roberts or Conservative sleeve wearing Alito types.

92

The MSM is almost certainly not going to hammer McCain on his "corruption and temper issues", since they freaking love the guy.

I'd give odds on that, Ace could hold the money.

93

I'm not going to be frightened or brow beaten into voting for somebody just because the other "team" is so scary bad. 

GOP governance in the Bush era has been a mixed bag and I see McCain pushing the party even further Left.  If I'm being told to sack up and just accept policy presciptions and governance that I hate, then I would prefer that it came packaged under the Donkey brand and not the sully the party that still presents the best chance to advance conservative policy and governance ideals.

At some point, you stop accepting and supporting the leftward tilt based almost solely on scare tactics from partisans who care more about the (R) after someone's name than they do about the direction in which they move the debate and the policy of the government.

And that's the role of a man.

94

Focus on appellate nominees for a president who does not hold the Senate

The problem for you and the GO14 Deal is that I pointed out the numbers covering 2006.

Guess who held the Senate then?

95

So I can't take to my bed and be tepid (or withhold support, like that pussy Jay

I was working in the Senate and on the campaing trail for Republicans when you were in junior high, dumbass.

96

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Does MTV have a "Real World" for whiny conservatives and their principles?

If you choose your principles over conservative interests, you're a dupe.  Like it or not, if McCain is the nominee, it is in the interests of conservatives to not just hold their nose and vote, but to work their ass off for him.

And what do I here?  "He doesn't treat us nice!  He's doesn't respect us!"

Does it get more self-absorbed and immature?

 

97

And by all means, do all you can if McCain is the nominee to makes sure Stevens and Ginsberg are replaced by tried and true liberals.

They will be anyway. Guess why? Because the Democrats, using the "extreme circumstances" language of the GO14 deal will, surprise!, find and "extreme circumstance" for anyone to the right of Justice Kennedy.

Even though the deal wasn't meant to address SCOTUS nominees.

Again, if the gang of 14 deal is such a triumph for conservatives, why was it proposed by Harry Reid?

98

Jay

Legislative Correspondent is not quite noteworthy.

Fred

Thank you for your Alan Aldaesque meditation on manhood.  Pat Leahy will be glad top hear you've come to grips with your issues with your father.

99 It's not that you're upsetting me, it's that you seem to be disagreeing with the essence of the primary process: we vet the candidates.  None of the McCain hate you're seeing here won't be on the front page and 24/7 on CNN come June if he's the nominee.  It's not decided yet, and there's still a chance to do better than McCain.  You want to rant against Romney, now's the time, convince us in some reasonable fashion that he'd be a substantially worse nominee.  There're a slew of genuinely-good reasons to keep McCain from being the nominee.

I'd also note that you've pre-emptively labeled anyone that disagrees with you a child.  My statement was about the dubious utility of namecalling and pejoratives as a way to motivate your audience.

100

Jeff,

What position would McCain have to hold such that you would withhold your support of him in the general election?

101 Jeff Larkin, used tire salesman:

cust: I need a couple replacement tires.. but nothing here seems quite round.

JL: Round! Round? Round is the new square, man. Why get all hung up on roundness purity? Why not try  a couple of these gems?

holds up a tire with more than a few bald spots and actual angles

cust: Um, because I sort of value my car. See, if I were to use one of those tires, I imagine the whole thing could wreck.

JL: Wreck? That's just irrational dude! These babies are TIRES man... see... it  says so right on the label. You can trust them.

cust: All the same, I'd just as soon get some round tires. My car has been drifting left anyway, I think the alignment is out, and I really need to be able to depend on my tires to resist any drastic lurches to the left if possible.

JL: Look, you're just being a child now. Grow up and just get on board -- tires are tires if they say tiRes on the label.

cust: hmm. riiggght. Ok, you have a nice day there.

walks out of shop.

JL: baby! big baby! come back and buy my tires! BABY!!!

102

Jay

If you worked in the Senate, how in God'sname could you believe the Gang of 14 deal would be operative with the Democrats in control?  The guts of the deal is as follows: "You don't go nuclear; we give you x."

The GOP will not have the option to go nuclear in the minority; hence, the Democrats need not adhere to the deal.  So they will certainly fight very hard against McCain's nominees and he may well have to choose someone les conservatice than Janice Rogers Brown

The Democrats will not fight so hard against those of Obama or Clinton.   

103

agent provocateur?

104

Leon

Everything I say is in the vein as McCain as the nominee.  I have no problem with Romney and would vigorously support him with every effort that  gave to McCain.

angler

You ask a very broad hypothetical.  Let's just say that a senator with a lifetime  ACU rating of 82% doesn't really make the inquiry for a conservative all that pressing - unless, of course, they've been offended or have a heightened sense of their own principles or they are not otherwise potty-trained.. 

105

krakatoa

That you need to be sold and stroked kind of says it all.

106

adolfo: It's true that senators almost never win. But should McCain secure the nomination, he'll be running against a senator, so that's a wash.

Hillary is not just a Senator, she's a former first lady. I think that gives her, at the very least, great name recognition. If Obama wins the primary, he may be the only Senator in this race who could win. He's the second coming of JFK according to the papers.

I see nothing about McCain that convinces me he won't go down like Bob Dole in the general. His campaign has been on the edge of broke or in the hole for the last four or five months, while Obama and Hillary pull in five or ten million a week.

107

"He's not my guy either.  Fred Thompson was."

Me, too.  Although, based on your comments here, it must have been for different reasons.  Because when Thompson selected as his main theme the fact that he was the only true conservative in the race; when he openly and forcefully accused other Republican candidates of having positions more consistent with those of liberal Democrats than conservative Republicans; when he openly criticized McCain for his positions on immigration and taxes; and when he mocked McCain for partnering with Ted Kennedy; it never occurred to me that he was being a childish, foolish crybaby.

108

Jeff, you realize that you and Hugh Hewitt are cut right out of the same mold.  Mindless cheerleaders for your political team.

I'm down with the idea that you take half a loaf when the alternative is nothing.  But excuse me if I start to think twice when I'm offered a quarter of a moldy loaf over nothing.

And your hard ass routine is boring.  We get it.  You're wetting yourself over the prospect of a Democrat in the White House and just can't believe everyone isn't right there with you with piss running down our legs at the very thought.  Some of us aren't as politically incontinent after having observed it long enough to know its not the end of the world.

109

Jay

Legislative Correspondent is not quite noteworthy.

Too bad that wasn't my job, clown.

Again, if the gang of 14 deal is such a triumph for conservatives, why was it proposed by Harry Reid?

Why won't you answer pansy?

110 Jeff:

Sold & Stroked. That sounds suspiciously like 90% of your posts here, minus the name calling.

That you can continuously and willfully avoid the amazing departure from Conservative values McCain represents while resting your entire case on one single issue with questionable legs speaks volumes about you.

111 I see nothing about McCain that convinces me he won't go down like Bob Dole in the general.

I think you're deluding yourself -- look at the exit polls from the open primaries so far -- but, whatever. Not worth a big argument.

112

Fred

What team is that?  The team that wants a policy that hews closest to conservatism for Iraq policy, anti-terrorism policy, conservative judges and low taxes?

Or the team that wilts because the person who is their standard bearer isn't 100% ACU, he's only 82%, and dammit - he was mean to me?

And it ain';t no routine.  To read the log-rolling and lethargy in here.  This is a conservative site?

Um, no.  It's a support group.  Enablers and "What about me!"

113

And what do I here?  "He doesn't treat us nice!  He's doesn't respect us!"

That's what you're reading here, Jeff? Not, "He offers me nothing. I have no good reason to support him."?

Dude, now you're just being a tool. You've been given substantive reasons why we won't support McCain and you're choosing to read them as that we're being slighted by him. You're off the rails.

114

Jay

Relax, remember your glory days actually getting to ride in the elevator when a vote was pending, and let us leave it at that.  You're a fucking child, it's all about you, and you're a waste of my time.

Be warmed by your principles.

115

That you need to be sold ...

 

Actually, that you don't need to be sold says it all.  I think Jeff's the pussy who cowers under his sheets crying for his mommy at the prospect of not having his "team" in the White House.  So, he'll take whatever pig they smear some lipstick on and sputter and stomp his feet at his betters who actually hold out for something that more closely approximates their political beliefs.

That's why he won't answer the "hypothetical" question of just how far he's willing to be bent over before he'll say enough's enough.  He's as scared as a little girl of those big, bad ass democrats who are gonna steal his milk money and so he'll run and hide behind whomever has the (R) tag.

 

116
WASHINGTON - John McCain, who ended the year with a $4.5 million debt, plans six coast-to-coast fundraisers in three days to capitalize on his Florida victory and front-runner status and build on the $7 million he raised in the first three weeks of January.

He also got a significant boost from a $3 million line of credit from Fidelity Bank & Trust, a loan he secured in November as he prepared to mount a campaign-salvaging stand in New Hampshire.

The loan carried an 8.5 percent interest rate and was secured to a
great degree by McCain's proven ability as a fundraiser. If he loses
the nomination, McCain could transfer the debt to this Senate campaign
committee and continue to raise money to retire it. ... more.

117 Its going to be a long wait for next Tuesday.  Isn't it about time for some celebrity boobs or something.

118

Sponge

He offers you nothing?

Why, you spoiled little whelp.

Try this approach.

Does he offer more or less to, say, troops in Iraq and American interests abroad.

Who the fuck cares what he offers to you?

If I hear "me" one more time . . .

119 Did Bill Clinton touch you in your "no-no" place, Jeff?  Is that why you're so scarred? 

120

Ha ha.

I've enjoyed it.

Adios.

121 It's a support group.  Enablers and "What about me!"

Jeff Larkin, single-handedly and by dint of his unrelenting vision(s) redefining "Turd in the punchbowl" to "Paragon of principled virtue."

122

Jeff is clearly a Romniac.  No one could be so unrelentingly offputting and injurious to his own alleged interest without it being intentional.

123

"You ask a very broad hypothetical."

Which you chose not to answer, except for accusing others of being overly-sensitive, delusional, or incontinent.

I don't think there is a position held by McCain that you would not defend or attempt to explain away for the cause of making sure any (R) nominee wins.  You ridicule some for holding too tightly to conservative principles.  But at least they have some to hold on to.  Or would not so quickly abandon them.

124

Was it something I said?

125
Posted by: Jeff Larkin at January 31, 2008 04:46 PM (5HveT)

I think you mis-read his comment, Jeff.

And as I said the other night, your argument would be better-served with about 110% less douchy goodness.

126

OT a bit.

Riddle me this

"She and John McCain are very close," Clinton said. "They always laugh that if they wound up being the nominees of their party, it would be the most civilized election in American history, and they're afraid they'd put the voters to sleep because they like and respect each other."

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno was her father.

127

Jay

Relax, remember your glory days actually getting to ride in the elevator when a vote was pending, and let us leave it at that

Now take a wild guess as to why you can't answer my question, clown?

Why do you think that is?

128 Has anyone else noticed that when McCain supporters get going, they are every bit as ill tempered and petty as the man they support?

129

I will not vote for McCain.  I do not like him. I do not trust him. He has been endorsed by many I find objectionable.

It really is about principles.

 

130 ron paul

131 Wake up people!  Instead of bashing McCain, let's throw the same amount of positive enthusiasm behind Romney!  Romney is as good a candidate as the Republican party could ever hope for.  Go Romney!!!

132 Nobody'll vote for a flattened out rabbit,  I always say....

133

I don't want to have to do this folks.... but Romney, if you don't beat McCain, I'm afraid I'll have to place a Hillary Clinton banner on my blog.

Please Romney... don't make it come down to that, I'm begging you!

Jason Bradley

ExcellenceInAmerica.com

134 I am sitting back and watching, trying to figure out what the heck I'm going to do in this election. I respect your judgement and am listening closely to others as well (Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity) and see what happens.

On a lighter note, your hair looks fantastic! Did you get it cut (layered) February 1, it seriously looks great!

135

John McCain as president is far worse than any Democrat.  McCain will be about 1000 times as effective as pushing through liberal legislation as a liberal Democrat would be, because all the Democrats will support the liberal legislation and the Republicans will be torn between their principles (if they have any) and their need to support the Republican party and/or president.  Conservatism will be dead in Washington while McCain is president.  McCain has proven he will push legislation that is patently liberal, big government, crushing environmental standards, amnesty for illegal aliens (he still wants it), anti-interrogation...

McCain's nomination will also severely damage other Republican candidates on the ballot the same way Hillary's nomination would help them by effecting Republican voter turnout.  People like me, who believe conservatism is the heart of the county and embodies all the principles America was founded on, cannot vote for John McCain under any circumstances.  So come election time, a lot of die-hard Republicans will in fact sit it out.  I'll at least go to the polls and vote for all the other Republicans on the ballot, but many others will not.

136

Please Read;

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=60022

 

"Mitt Romney pushed through same-sex marriage all by himself, in the absence of any authority or requirement to do so, having a complete misunderstanding of his role as governor and of the significance of the court's opinion," said Keyes.

 

"The court never ordered him to act, nor did he have the right to act, since the legislature never changed the law. Romney claimed he had no other choice, but that's completely untrue."

 

Romney said;

 

"I promised that if elected, I'd call a truce - a moratorium, if you will...I vowed to veto any legislation that sought to change the existing rules...I fully respect and will fully protect a woman's right to choose."

 

(Taken form http://www.perrspectives.com).

 

He raised fees, but he said he  didn’t  increase taxes. Give me a break!!!.

 

 

MITT IS A LIBERAL !

 

MITT IS A LIBERAL !

 

MITT IS A LIBERAL !

137

Glen - you need to use the cap lock more often and repeat "MITT IS A LIBERAL" this adds a lot of depth to your arguments.

Cutting and pasting from an anti-Romney site is quick and easy plus it again demonstrates the depth of thought you have put into the issues.

Your news clips are a HUGE (I can use caps too) surprise to all of us Romney supporters - never heard those well thought out, unbiased, arguments before.

 

Now to get serious.  Mitt Romney has been trending right for quite sometime - long before this election cycle began.  His opponents have decided to term his drift to the right as being a "flip-flopper" while McCain who has been trending left for a long time is a "maverick", hmmm...  Romney has not done ANYTHING (caps again Glen - you're a good teacher) to stab conservatives in the back and I have seen flips, but not flops with Romney.  McCain - let me count the many ways he has been a "maverick" for all of us conservatives.  Many quote the 82% conservative, but fail to note that this number has been trending down over the years and there are other "conservative-o-meters" that rank him much lower. 

The more I learn of Romney, the more I like.  The more I learn of McCain, well... I may not even be able to pull the lever for him with a gun to my head.  This coming from a former (McCain 2000) supporter.

138

Ann I read your newspaper colum every time it is in our paper, andeverytime it's in our paper the lib hate you more than ever and there is usually 5 or 6 leters to the editors reallt bashing you

. I,m 72 years old and have been a life long republican and was very died hearted and really love you and your colums.  But when you said you would vote for clinton or  obamma overr Mc Cain (I supported Mitt until he droped out of the race) and he was man enough to say he was not going to be responsable for Clinton  or obama to screw up our country. I will never read another one of your editors as long as I live if you suppor  the liberals (your insaned)

Was a great Fan

139

On this sad day when Mitt Romney has stepped aside "for the good of the party and the good of the country" I am trying to get any true conservative with a voice to listen.  Emails to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Sean Hannity have resulted in nothing.

They are busy looking for who they feel is left to vote for.  THey are taking a defeatist attitude.

By suspending his campaign for the reasons he did,Mitt Romney has shown me he is exactly the man we need to vote for.

I am sure his name is still on many ballots.  If it is, true conservatives should still vote for him!

If it is not and you can write in a candidate, then all of us should be writing him in and voting for him!

If a vote is going to be thrown away on a third party cnadidate, why not thrown it away on a true conservative and at least send a good message to McCain?

 

 

140

I like Levin but he as well as these others that write opions or have a radio talk show or TV program they slowly but surelt fall in line and vote republican no matter if it is even McCain. You are already starting to hear them convey that in their rantings if you listen closely. They fall into that same old trap and ideology that we must seek someone who is electable and can beat hillary or Obama.

How about just rally the troops and get someone who has what the major portion of America wants for a President which will be a Conservative and let that play against the Liberal/Socialist that the Democrats will most always bring to the forefront of the race.

How about "WE the People" mobilize and no matter who they nominate for the Republican ticket we will vote in someone who is conservative. Maybe even get someone who has dropped out of the race to re-enter like the most conservative of the lot was Tom Tancredo for instance. He is a Patriot and was in it for the love of country and his voting record and life showed he was right in line with every conservative principal and values. That is until the press and even conservatives turn their backs on him and even chimed in with the media in pigeon holing him as a one issue candidate. Just got to love their wisdom in that now that they are clamoring to have such a candidate in the race to oppose McCain. I don't follow Ann Coulter on voting for Hillary as a good strategy either.

I will not nor ever will vote for McCain, Hillary or Obama and if I must I will vote for Ron Paul with him I have only one issue difference with him compared to how many with McCain.

I voted this Saturday in the primary election in Louisiana and Tom Tancredo's name was still listed and so there was my vote and Can I plead with him to reconsider and jump back in the race?

I have two website's and  they both encourage people to get out and vote so I don't believe in staying home and not voting as a strategy either. We can mobilize as we did this past summer against the McCain/Kennedy Amnesty Bill and Stick that in the face of the media and those arrogant Politicians in Washington and those two Parties that the power is still in our hands NOT theirs. http://vote-itz-ur-right.co 0r http://an-american-for-sovereignty.com .

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142

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