June 28, 2006
Kidnapped Israeli Civilian Butchered By "Militants;" IDF Captures Several Hamas Leaders, Including Four Members of Parliament
— Ace On FoxNews.
— Ace On FoxNews.
No word on whether Israel will use the captured terrorists as bargaining chips.
I say: Do it. I'm sick and tired of hearing we can't use their tactics against them. Or that we'll "become them" if we do.
Do we become snakes when we decapitate them with hoes? I don't think so.
Posted by: Ace at
02:38 PM
| Comments (77)
Post contains 86 words, total size 1 kb.
1
So let me get this straight: Hamas, ruling party of the PA, abducts an Israeli soldier and 'butchers' him in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
My question is: how long until Israel is blamed for the soldier's death?
My question is: how long until Israel is blamed for the soldier's death?
Posted by: Allan at June 28, 2006 02:45 PM (wWKro)
2
No more 'nuanced' euroweenie solutions to the world's current problems. No more 'international law' uber alles.
Europe is dying, and euro 'solutions' didn't do the world any favors during the last two hundred years.
(Indeed, there was a certain euro 'final solution' that came pretty close to realization...and if it wasn't for you meddling American kids...)
Europe is dying, and euro 'solutions' didn't do the world any favors during the last two hundred years.
(Indeed, there was a certain euro 'final solution' that came pretty close to realization...and if it wasn't for you meddling American kids...)
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at June 28, 2006 02:46 PM (BeFYl)
3
One thousand of them for each Isralei. Level some villages and everyone in them. See if they grasp the concept of leaving people the f$ck alone and they get to keep on breathing.
Posted by: Cranky at June 28, 2006 02:51 PM (Xj2Ev)
4
Besides the kidnapping of the soldier, they kidnapped and murdered an 18 y/o civilian. This is the mindset you are dealing with:
“Even if they slaughter 100,000 Palestinians, this is a chance that can’t be lost. It’s the only way the prisoners will be able to get out,” said Bassem Al Khoudry, 35, owner of a fast food stand in Gaza City. “If they release him with nothing in return, they would betray their nation, their prisoners.”
“Even if they slaughter 100,000 Palestinians, this is a chance that can’t be lost. It’s the only way the prisoners will be able to get out,” said Bassem Al Khoudry, 35, owner of a fast food stand in Gaza City. “If they release him with nothing in return, they would betray their nation, their prisoners.”
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 03:18 PM (yp3GE)
5
And I got the quote from an article posted on LGF. They also have one posted that there was a missle attack on a University in Gaza. Good.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 03:19 PM (yp3GE)
6
Yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060629/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians;_ylt=Al9Py7WtDsYle0UtAc8A39ys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
Incredibly sad to hear about Eliyahu Asheri, the young Israeli murdered. Notice the yahoo story has a personal quote from the Palestenian woman, but leaves the Israeli "personal" take.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060629/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians;_ylt=Al9Py7WtDsYle0UtAc8A39ys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
Incredibly sad to hear about Eliyahu Asheri, the young Israeli murdered. Notice the yahoo story has a personal quote from the Palestenian woman, but leaves the Israeli "personal" take.
Posted by: yls at June 28, 2006 03:19 PM (xJj1O)
7
"I say: Do it."
Yeah cause the Palestenians place a high degree of value on the lives of their own people, such a tactic is gauranteed to work.
Yeah cause the Palestenians place a high degree of value on the lives of their own people, such a tactic is gauranteed to work.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 03:30 PM (gNw0L)
8
"Level some villages and everyone in them."
Seriously. Women, children, everyone huh? What purpose would the leveling of innocent Palestenian children serve?
It's vile emetic shit like this that only confirms the Left's suspicions of the Right.
Seriously. Women, children, everyone huh? What purpose would the leveling of innocent Palestenian children serve?
It's vile emetic shit like this that only confirms the Left's suspicions of the Right.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 03:33 PM (gNw0L)
9
I don't know, I guess you could make some argument to the effect that the current Palestenian government is democratically elected and thus the entire populus must bear the responsibility for its actions, BUT even so, slaughtering thousands of civilians for the kidnapping and execution of one soilder is provacitively excessive and would serve no real strategic ends.
I think for the first time in a long time, even the Europeans are beginning to abandon the Palestenian cause, massacring entire villages would not only reverse that, but would seriously jepordize even US support.
I think for the first time in a long time, even the Europeans are beginning to abandon the Palestenian cause, massacring entire villages would not only reverse that, but would seriously jepordize even US support.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 03:42 PM (gNw0L)
10
Agreed. Wasting innocent civilians in an act of retaliation might turn the tide of public sentiment in the US strongly against Israel.
The militants? The terrorist government? Sure, do what needs to be done. The plumber and his family just trying to scrape by? Try to miss him with the missiles. Civilian casualties in war are one thing, wholsale slaughter is another.
The militants? The terrorist government? Sure, do what needs to be done. The plumber and his family just trying to scrape by? Try to miss him with the missiles. Civilian casualties in war are one thing, wholsale slaughter is another.
Posted by: leoncaruthers at June 28, 2006 03:48 PM (tFXqw)
11
Well I, for one, am going to go outside and hand out sweets to my neighbors while I dance and sing, in order to celebrate Israel standing up to the terrorists.
'Sweets' being beer, and the song will be 'Hadji Girl'.
'Sweets' being beer, and the song will be 'Hadji Girl'.
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at June 28, 2006 03:54 PM (BeFYl)
12
Jason: Stop with you fucking lectures. It's not like the IDF is going to stop by aoshq, read the comments, and feel compelled to follow through with anyone's comments. People have the right to vent their frustration without your obnoxious moralizing. And we don't' give a shit what the left thinks.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 03:56 PM (yp3GE)
13
I say take out a couple of villages just to piss off Jason and leoncaruthers.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 03:58 PM (yp3GE)
14
I say instead of this bargening stuff they should line all of those militants against a wall pour pig blod all over them give the pelitives of the victims each a UZI and let them all open up and leave them all DEAD
Posted by: spurwing plover at June 28, 2006 04:01 PM (n7v4a)
15
Spurwing has the right idea. How about strapping them down and give them blood transfusions -- pig's blood transfusions.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 04:04 PM (yp3GE)
16
Do we become snakes when we decapitate them with hoes?
I just want to say in advance that I should not be used to decapitate snakes. Thank you, that is all.
I just want to say in advance that I should not be used to decapitate snakes. Thank you, that is all.
Posted by: Feisty at June 28, 2006 04:16 PM (nUWM+)
17
Nah, fuck the Palestinians. They teach their children that Western Civilization is the product of Satan. I really have no problem with killing them and their kids.
Posted by: ErikW at June 28, 2006 04:19 PM (8G36N)
18
Come on, Feisty. Take one for the team.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 04:20 PM (yp3GE)
19
Wizbang has a report that the Palestinians are claiming to have launched a chemical weapon into Israel, but that the Israeli's have yet to confirm or deny the story.
Havent seen it anywhere else yet. Maybe something to keep an eye out for.
Havent seen it anywhere else yet. Maybe something to keep an eye out for.
Posted by: Jack M. at June 28, 2006 04:21 PM (YpIcX)
20
I think your analogy is off, Ace. It's not whether we become snakes when we decapitate them with hoes. Its more like, do we become snakes by biting them?
The answer is still no, unless it's like a were-snake with lycanthropic blood. What that does for your analogy I can't really say, but it's not my problem..
The answer is still no, unless it's like a were-snake with lycanthropic blood. What that does for your analogy I can't really say, but it's not my problem..
Posted by: See-Dubya at June 28, 2006 04:22 PM (jaCyN)
21
While I agree that Israel should use the capture of the Hamas leaders in any way they can, I don't quite follow Ace's snake analogy here....
"I'm sick and tired of hearing we can't use their tactics against them. Or that we'll "become them" if we do.
Do we become snakes when we decapitate them with hoes? I don't think so.
Wouldn't this mean that we (humans) were being attacked by snakes with hoes?
.
.
.
Does this sort of thing normally happen to people living the Ace Lifestyle?
Just wondering.
"I'm sick and tired of hearing we can't use their tactics against them. Or that we'll "become them" if we do.
Do we become snakes when we decapitate them with hoes? I don't think so.
Wouldn't this mean that we (humans) were being attacked by snakes with hoes?
.
.
.
Does this sort of thing normally happen to people living the Ace Lifestyle?
Just wondering.
Posted by: BM at June 28, 2006 04:25 PM (NpQqC)
22
Now's the time to take out Iran's nuclear facilities (and more). Their fingerprints are all over these attacks on Israel.
Posted by: Foreign Intelligence at June 28, 2006 04:32 PM (QBpRu)
Posted by: jdubious at June 28, 2006 04:35 PM (4fkku)
24
Oh, bullshit. Of course we don't become "them."
Sure, we'll torture the hell out of them and if I had my choice, I'd cut their nuts off and force them to eat them at gunpoint. I'd do that to force information out of them. Islam has a nasty habit of cutting the clitoris off off of young girls as a custom.
Take your fucking pick, which is worse?
Sure, we'll torture the hell out of them and if I had my choice, I'd cut their nuts off and force them to eat them at gunpoint. I'd do that to force information out of them. Islam has a nasty habit of cutting the clitoris off off of young girls as a custom.
Take your fucking pick, which is worse?
Posted by: ErikW at June 28, 2006 04:37 PM (8G36N)
Posted by: Jack M. at June 28, 2006 04:40 PM (YpIcX)
26
In the Old Testament, God ordered the Jews to kill not only the warriors of the village, but all within as well. Women, children, animals....snakes.
Looking at the situation there now, God had a good point!
Long and short of it, muslims want all Jews dead, time we recognize that.
Looking at the situation there now, God had a good point!
Long and short of it, muslims want all Jews dead, time we recognize that.
Posted by: SJR at June 28, 2006 04:44 PM (BiPqH)
27
"People have the right to vent their frustration without your obnoxious moralizing."
Funny, when the idiots on the Left do that on Kos or DU, everyone on this site has a good depricating laugh at their expense...or shakes their head in disgust.
Funny, when the idiots on the Left do that on Kos or DU, everyone on this site has a good depricating laugh at their expense...or shakes their head in disgust.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 04:46 PM (gNw0L)
28
"People have the right to vent their frustration without your obnoxious moralizing."
Funny, when the idiots on the Left do that on Kos or DU, everyone on this site has a good depricating laugh at their expense...or shakes their head in disgust.
Posted by Jason at June 28, 2006 09:46 PM
The idiots on the left at Kos and DU do not vent their frustration when an innocent Israeli is butchered. Instead, they blame the Israelis or blame Bush. Thank you once again for you phony moralizing.
Funny, when the idiots on the Left do that on Kos or DU, everyone on this site has a good depricating laugh at their expense...or shakes their head in disgust.
Posted by Jason at June 28, 2006 09:46 PM
The idiots on the left at Kos and DU do not vent their frustration when an innocent Israeli is butchered. Instead, they blame the Israelis or blame Bush. Thank you once again for you phony moralizing.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 05:06 PM (yp3GE)
29
Jason?
I will say, that though I think that the death of non-combatants, is horrible, this is not a case of women and children being non-combatants. In the area's under palestinian control, and throughout much of the muslim world, the men who wish to kill innocents, have conscripted women and children into the efforts of murder by virtue of the restraint of western nations.
If you think killing "children" is bad, then we wouldn't have won in Germany either. Many members of the hitler youth were as young as 12 if not younger. This is not a coordinated military effort acting in the stead of an unarmed populace for the purposes of protection, it is rather a messianic adhoration, and a satanic hatred on the part of the palestinians to destroy all the children of israel.
Thats the same sort of death cult that existed in Japan prior to contemporary times. It is NECESSARY! to inflict damage upon the populace to educate the leaders that pretty soon, the people will get sick of dying for a cult, and start to question the nature of the cult.
If every palestinian man woman or child were to take up arms against israel, israel would win.
I think there is a value (not yet, but it might come soon) for israel to educate hamas, and "the palestinian people" of that fact.
Just like the hell leveled against the cultists of the emporer in 45.
I will say, that though I think that the death of non-combatants, is horrible, this is not a case of women and children being non-combatants. In the area's under palestinian control, and throughout much of the muslim world, the men who wish to kill innocents, have conscripted women and children into the efforts of murder by virtue of the restraint of western nations.
If you think killing "children" is bad, then we wouldn't have won in Germany either. Many members of the hitler youth were as young as 12 if not younger. This is not a coordinated military effort acting in the stead of an unarmed populace for the purposes of protection, it is rather a messianic adhoration, and a satanic hatred on the part of the palestinians to destroy all the children of israel.
Thats the same sort of death cult that existed in Japan prior to contemporary times. It is NECESSARY! to inflict damage upon the populace to educate the leaders that pretty soon, the people will get sick of dying for a cult, and start to question the nature of the cult.
If every palestinian man woman or child were to take up arms against israel, israel would win.
I think there is a value (not yet, but it might come soon) for israel to educate hamas, and "the palestinian people" of that fact.
Just like the hell leveled against the cultists of the emporer in 45.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at June 28, 2006 05:07 PM (QTv8u)
30
"If you think killing "children" is bad, then we wouldn't have won in Germany either."
If you read my previous post, you will see that I made that concession. However, I would say that WWII was a much different situation than one executed soilder...so the moral calculus involved is bound to be different as well.
If you read my previous post, you will see that I made that concession. However, I would say that WWII was a much different situation than one executed soilder...so the moral calculus involved is bound to be different as well.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 05:18 PM (gNw0L)
31
Ignore the lost people like Jason.
Refusing to understand that the Palestinian Ghetto Blaster has routinely been a child or teenager with C4 duct taped to them is just plain lost.
Refusing to understand that the Philistines have been doing just that to unarmed Israeli Men, Women, Children and Babies all along, at weddings, restaurants, on busses, you name it, and then asserting some weird and evil form of equivalent morality about the people fighting back is just plain evil.
Sick Puppy.
.
Refusing to understand that the Palestinian Ghetto Blaster has routinely been a child or teenager with C4 duct taped to them is just plain lost.
Refusing to understand that the Philistines have been doing just that to unarmed Israeli Men, Women, Children and Babies all along, at weddings, restaurants, on busses, you name it, and then asserting some weird and evil form of equivalent morality about the people fighting back is just plain evil.
Sick Puppy.
.
Posted by: The Machine at June 28, 2006 05:24 PM (L/jMX)
32
Any group of people who are so wound up in hatred as to place their own children in danger in order to keep their hatred alive deserve the retribution that surely will come to them, their families and everything around them.
It is called, "Responsibility for one's own actions."
God Bless Israel.
.
It is called, "Responsibility for one's own actions."
God Bless Israel.
.
Posted by: The Machine at June 28, 2006 05:27 PM (L/jMX)
33
We just gotta get that Geneva Convention thing suspended. After all it only works in a one sided kind of way. They never follow it for captured Israelis, Americans and Russians. What good are rules if only one side lives up to them???
Posted by: Miss Carnivorous at June 28, 2006 05:29 PM (YIT5O)
34
Oh and shawn, et al. I have no illusions as to what Israel might be forced to undertake in short order, and I will support them completely. However, there is a major difference in recognizing this necessity (i.e. the deaths of many Palestenian civilians) as part of the horrible moral calculus of war, and celebrating and gloating over such a state of affairs. That is what this quote amounts to:
"One thousand of them for each Isralei. Level some villages and everyone in them."
That's just disgraceful and I apologize if pointing that out strikes you as preaching, but it needs to be pointed out as unfortunately it is not as obvious to people here as it properly should be.
"One thousand of them for each Isralei. Level some villages and everyone in them."
That's just disgraceful and I apologize if pointing that out strikes you as preaching, but it needs to be pointed out as unfortunately it is not as obvious to people here as it properly should be.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 05:31 PM (gNw0L)
35
Jason? Machine summarizes it in his first post.
"one soldier" is a FALSE statement. This has been almost 60 years of random assault on the populace of israel, by scumbag islamists, and the deliberate kidnapping of a single soldier during a time of war is just the straw that made the camel kick.
"one soldier" is a FALSE statement. This has been almost 60 years of random assault on the populace of israel, by scumbag islamists, and the deliberate kidnapping of a single soldier during a time of war is just the straw that made the camel kick.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at June 28, 2006 05:31 PM (QTv8u)
36
"Any group of people who are so wound up in hatred"
You know Machine, I don't know why I bother responding to you, but it is amusing that you describe me as "wound up in hatred". Who exactly do I have hatred for? Hamas thugs? You bet. Innocent Palestenian children? No.
You know Machine, I don't know why I bother responding to you, but it is amusing that you describe me as "wound up in hatred". Who exactly do I have hatred for? Hamas thugs? You bet. Innocent Palestenian children? No.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 05:34 PM (gNw0L)
37
DAMN! I meant "time of 'peace'" since this was supposed to be a standing ceasefire, (a ceasefire is not peace, it is a halt of aggression during a time of war) was the straw" blah blah blah
Also, Jason?
People get pissed off about your comments because you are saying "There is a Fire in the Theatre? Don't RUN TO IT, lets stop here, and think this through"
you may not have ill intentions against the opinions held, but you are defaming their willingness, and understanding of the fact that in times like this, people must ACT, not hug eachother and mourn people who are not yet dead.
Also, Jason?
People get pissed off about your comments because you are saying "There is a Fire in the Theatre? Don't RUN TO IT, lets stop here, and think this through"
you may not have ill intentions against the opinions held, but you are defaming their willingness, and understanding of the fact that in times like this, people must ACT, not hug eachother and mourn people who are not yet dead.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at June 28, 2006 05:35 PM (QTv8u)
38
Jason?
Your response to Machine is wrong. he was talking about palestinians, and I'm done responding to you. You are a Derrida deconstructionist obviously.
I'm done with it myself.
Your response to Machine is wrong. he was talking about palestinians, and I'm done responding to you. You are a Derrida deconstructionist obviously.
I'm done with it myself.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at June 28, 2006 05:37 PM (QTv8u)
39
Jason:
One, get your facts right. A young 18 year old civilian was kidnapped and murdered. Several soldiers were murdered and one kidnapped. He is still being held captive.
Two, fuck off already. Earlier, I couldn't figure out why everyone considered you so annoying. Now I know.
Now pardon me while I go demand the strafing of pali children and running them over with tanks. Yipee!
One, get your facts right. A young 18 year old civilian was kidnapped and murdered. Several soldiers were murdered and one kidnapped. He is still being held captive.
Two, fuck off already. Earlier, I couldn't figure out why everyone considered you so annoying. Now I know.
Now pardon me while I go demand the strafing of pali children and running them over with tanks. Yipee!
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 05:40 PM (yp3GE)
40
"People get pissed off about your comments because you are saying "There is a Fire in the Theatre? Don't RUN TO IT, lets stop here, and think this through"
you may not have ill intentions against the opinions held, but you are defaming their willingness, and understanding of the fact that in times like this, people must ACT, not hug eachother and mourn people who are not yet dead."
I understand what you're saying, and I can understand why people are so emotional, but the point I'm trying the make is that rational consideration is ALWAYS better than lashing out in anger and in fear. People say and do stupid stuff when they're angry or afraid, stuff that they later regret. I know angry people often don't like a voice of reason trying to calm them down, but the voice of reason is ALWAYS necessary.
Also, you shouldn't consider the voice of reason as necessarily the voice of peace or restraint. Fear inclined people in the 1930's to avoid war with Germany at all costs, while the voice of reason (e.g. Chruchill) would have dictated otherwise.
you may not have ill intentions against the opinions held, but you are defaming their willingness, and understanding of the fact that in times like this, people must ACT, not hug eachother and mourn people who are not yet dead."
I understand what you're saying, and I can understand why people are so emotional, but the point I'm trying the make is that rational consideration is ALWAYS better than lashing out in anger and in fear. People say and do stupid stuff when they're angry or afraid, stuff that they later regret. I know angry people often don't like a voice of reason trying to calm them down, but the voice of reason is ALWAYS necessary.
Also, you shouldn't consider the voice of reason as necessarily the voice of peace or restraint. Fear inclined people in the 1930's to avoid war with Germany at all costs, while the voice of reason (e.g. Chruchill) would have dictated otherwise.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 05:42 PM (gNw0L)
41
"You are a Derrida deconstructionist obviously."
Actually I'm writing my dissertation on Merleau-Ponty's phenomenology as a critique of Derrida.
I guess that makes be a nasty liberal...being a humanities grad student and all...right?
I'm sorry (not really) I piss you guys off so much. I think its more that arguing with liberal grad students all the time makes me extremely cautious in my arguments.
Actually I'm writing my dissertation on Merleau-Ponty's phenomenology as a critique of Derrida.
I guess that makes be a nasty liberal...being a humanities grad student and all...right?
I'm sorry (not really) I piss you guys off so much. I think its more that arguing with liberal grad students all the time makes me extremely cautious in my arguments.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 05:49 PM (gNw0L)
42
Jason's right: Israel shouldn't try to blow innocent Palestinian children into bloody chunks during this incursion.
That's a job that the parents of those children want to do themselves.
That's a job that the parents of those children want to do themselves.
Posted by: Russ from Winterset at June 28, 2006 05:50 PM (wKh5O)
43
I guess that makes be a nasty liberal...being a humanities grad student and all...right?
No, it makes you useless and unemployable.
No, it makes you useless and unemployable.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 05:52 PM (yp3GE)
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 05:53 PM (gNw0L)
45
Those Palestinians are making new militants somewhere. I don't know where. But somewhere. It's the same throughout all the Islamic lands: Those sneaky muslims are somehow making lots and lots of new muslims. Let's give credit where it's due: It's a farsighted, longterm strategy, the kind that takes decades to mature. And they've put a cute face on it. A really cute face. All you have to do is look at the pictures. You take one look, and you're all, "Aww, look! So cute! How could anybody nuke something that adorable?"
I hear the women are somehow involved in this. It sounds farfetched, I know, but there's strong circumstantial evidence in favor of this theory. They disappear for months, and the next time you see them, they've got this cute little f#cker with them, and you know, you just know, in 14 years or so, that little button-nosed thing is either going to be running around shouting Allahu akbar or disappearing for a few months to go make yet another muslim.
Women and children, they're the sinews of war, I tell you. Nobody will believe me, nobody except that Mark Steyn fellow. God bless him. If it weren't for him, I'd just figure I was crazy.
I hear the women are somehow involved in this. It sounds farfetched, I know, but there's strong circumstantial evidence in favor of this theory. They disappear for months, and the next time you see them, they've got this cute little f#cker with them, and you know, you just know, in 14 years or so, that little button-nosed thing is either going to be running around shouting Allahu akbar or disappearing for a few months to go make yet another muslim.
Women and children, they're the sinews of war, I tell you. Nobody will believe me, nobody except that Mark Steyn fellow. God bless him. If it weren't for him, I'd just figure I was crazy.
Posted by: Arafel at June 28, 2006 05:57 PM (gHR/6)
46
Jason,
You contend that the situation is different from World War II. Well, the Jews are again the target of a maniacal genocidal impulse, and in that way it is the same. The Jews can fight back this time, so that way it's different. If the Jews don't fight back, it becomes the same again.
Did you read Black Hawk Down? President Clinton authorized the military to wreck Mogadishu with full force if Aidid didn't cough up the captured US soldier, because it was an act of war. Aidid released the soldier immediately. The Palestinians are bigger douchebags than a Somali warlord, and that's saying something.
World War I was a bit of an overreaction to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand one might think, if one wants to look at it that way. But it is an awfully silly way to look at it.
Now is the best possible time to go to war with the Palestinians. You know, before they get an atom bomb.
You seem like a good egg, Jason, but you seem unable to see that this is really the culmination of more than 30 years of terror by the PLO. It's not just the captured Israeli soldier. It's three solid decades -- a whole generation! -- of constant terror. Fuck the Palestinians. No one can say they haven't made their own bed at this point. Half measures haven't accomplished shit in three decades.
You contend that the situation is different from World War II. Well, the Jews are again the target of a maniacal genocidal impulse, and in that way it is the same. The Jews can fight back this time, so that way it's different. If the Jews don't fight back, it becomes the same again.
Did you read Black Hawk Down? President Clinton authorized the military to wreck Mogadishu with full force if Aidid didn't cough up the captured US soldier, because it was an act of war. Aidid released the soldier immediately. The Palestinians are bigger douchebags than a Somali warlord, and that's saying something.
World War I was a bit of an overreaction to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand one might think, if one wants to look at it that way. But it is an awfully silly way to look at it.
Now is the best possible time to go to war with the Palestinians. You know, before they get an atom bomb.
You seem like a good egg, Jason, but you seem unable to see that this is really the culmination of more than 30 years of terror by the PLO. It's not just the captured Israeli soldier. It's three solid decades -- a whole generation! -- of constant terror. Fuck the Palestinians. No one can say they haven't made their own bed at this point. Half measures haven't accomplished shit in three decades.
Posted by: caspera at June 28, 2006 06:05 PM (jylGY)
47
Do we become snakes when we decapitate them with hoes?
An all-time Ace-of-Spade Val-U-Rite Vodka Classic...
An all-time Ace-of-Spade Val-U-Rite Vodka Classic...
Posted by: Bob at June 28, 2006 06:12 PM (PcfdM)
48
I'm sorry (not really) I piss you guys off so much. I think its more that arguing with liberal grad students all the time makes me extremely cautious in my arguments.
Ironicly, one of your most common conflicts comes with someone who is an EXPELLED highschool dropout, a Marine, and someone who only workes an average of something like 4 months out of a year, and doesn't spend a dime on anything but rent, phone, IP, food, and books.
I am, in life, a loser in the greatest degree, and I'm the only one you argue with rationaly. Whats that say about you? since you think the passionate conservatives are all phd's, sitting on pensions, and pissing their depends at 40 years old, just cuz they can?
Jason? BACK off of your offense. I give you room cuz I'm a loser in life, now? you have a chance to speak honestly, since I have.
Or is that counter to your philosophy?
Ironicly, one of your most common conflicts comes with someone who is an EXPELLED highschool dropout, a Marine, and someone who only workes an average of something like 4 months out of a year, and doesn't spend a dime on anything but rent, phone, IP, food, and books.
I am, in life, a loser in the greatest degree, and I'm the only one you argue with rationaly. Whats that say about you? since you think the passionate conservatives are all phd's, sitting on pensions, and pissing their depends at 40 years old, just cuz they can?
Jason? BACK off of your offense. I give you room cuz I'm a loser in life, now? you have a chance to speak honestly, since I have.
Or is that counter to your philosophy?
Posted by: Wickedpinto at June 28, 2006 06:26 PM (QTv8u)
49
I say we take off and nuke Palestine from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Posted by: Ellen Ripleystein at June 28, 2006 06:26 PM (xx3A/)
50
caspera:
I understand completely the history of the situation and as I said, I will support Israel completely. However, war is a serious and complicated matter that can never be completely divorced from politics and Israel must be very careful here.
The Palestenians have been infantalized for generations, and that is ending now...and I don't want Israel to jeapordize that by brash action that can only hurt them in the end.
Moreover, the main thrust of my argument has not be against Israeli military actions, but against those idiots who gleefuly call for the massacre of entire villages. That may in fact come to pass, hell it may even be necessary and I will defend it, but I will never celebrate and find satisfaction in such nasty business.
I understand completely the history of the situation and as I said, I will support Israel completely. However, war is a serious and complicated matter that can never be completely divorced from politics and Israel must be very careful here.
The Palestenians have been infantalized for generations, and that is ending now...and I don't want Israel to jeapordize that by brash action that can only hurt them in the end.
Moreover, the main thrust of my argument has not be against Israeli military actions, but against those idiots who gleefuly call for the massacre of entire villages. That may in fact come to pass, hell it may even be necessary and I will defend it, but I will never celebrate and find satisfaction in such nasty business.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 06:31 PM (gNw0L)
51
"I am, in life, a loser in the greatest degree"
Well at least you are posessed of a unimaginably high degree of self-transparecy and honesty. But since you are a Marine (at least I assume you are talking about yourself), I must disagree as to your loser status.
I don't necessarily disagree with with anyone here (except Machine), but its more a question of the emotions behind the opninons. As I tend to justify war and slaughter intellectually, I get disturbed and repulsed when people try to do the same emotionally.
Maybe that's more of a character flaw on my part.
Well at least you are posessed of a unimaginably high degree of self-transparecy and honesty. But since you are a Marine (at least I assume you are talking about yourself), I must disagree as to your loser status.
I don't necessarily disagree with with anyone here (except Machine), but its more a question of the emotions behind the opninons. As I tend to justify war and slaughter intellectually, I get disturbed and repulsed when people try to do the same emotionally.
Maybe that's more of a character flaw on my part.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 06:39 PM (gNw0L)
52
I'm glad the Israelis are in the game militarily.
They have shown way too much restraint for way too long.
How can anyone believe that the world won't look at any Israeli action as 'genocide', 'occupation', 'terrorism'?
When was the last time the world was on the side of the JOOOOOOS? Fuck what they all think.
If women and children are killed, it will be the fault of the Palestinians and those who have enabled them all these years. The Israelis will show restraint, as we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, just as there, even with the most restraint and the highest of high tech, civilians will unfortunately be killed. Especially when terrorists are using them as human shields, or when the civilians are openly supporting the terrorists. And by the way, if said terrorists are the army of the Palestinian elected government, well, caveat emptor.
It's about time Israel kicked some ass in their neighborhood. I hope they take out Assad while they're at it.
Now, I'm headed back outside to hand out 'sweets' and do some dancing and singing.
They have shown way too much restraint for way too long.
How can anyone believe that the world won't look at any Israeli action as 'genocide', 'occupation', 'terrorism'?
When was the last time the world was on the side of the JOOOOOOS? Fuck what they all think.
If women and children are killed, it will be the fault of the Palestinians and those who have enabled them all these years. The Israelis will show restraint, as we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, just as there, even with the most restraint and the highest of high tech, civilians will unfortunately be killed. Especially when terrorists are using them as human shields, or when the civilians are openly supporting the terrorists. And by the way, if said terrorists are the army of the Palestinian elected government, well, caveat emptor.
It's about time Israel kicked some ass in their neighborhood. I hope they take out Assad while they're at it.
Now, I'm headed back outside to hand out 'sweets' and do some dancing and singing.
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at June 28, 2006 06:57 PM (BeFYl)
53
Somehow Jason has managed to contradict himself within his own statements.
Good thing you won't have to defend that thesis where I sit the table, Jason.
.
Good thing you won't have to defend that thesis where I sit the table, Jason.
.
Posted by: The Machine at June 28, 2006 06:59 PM (L/jMX)
54
By the way, my Caterpillar stock is kicking ass...
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at June 28, 2006 07:03 PM (BeFYl)
55
Wow, never thought I'd say this but some of you people are starting to sound a lot like the kos people. Chill the fuck out already. Jason pointed out that whatever the proper response on the part of Israel may be, wholesale slaughter of thousands of innocents, including children, should not be a part of it. He's being attacked as unreasonable for this?
I understand the frustrations. The palestinian population has made itself the most wretched group of people on the planet. And yes, lots of palestinian children are unfortunate tools of war, but many more are not. Are you actually advocating killing a couple thousand of them to satisfy some sense of revenge and justice for one Israeli soldier and one or more civilians? What a bunch of horse shit. Take it out on the government and shoot whoever the hell gets in the way, but I guarantee you Israeli soldiers won't be wiping out villages indiscriminately. They will inflict a measure of punishment and achieve tactical and strategic goals to advance the situation in their favor and once again try to achieve peace.
I understand the frustrations. The palestinian population has made itself the most wretched group of people on the planet. And yes, lots of palestinian children are unfortunate tools of war, but many more are not. Are you actually advocating killing a couple thousand of them to satisfy some sense of revenge and justice for one Israeli soldier and one or more civilians? What a bunch of horse shit. Take it out on the government and shoot whoever the hell gets in the way, but I guarantee you Israeli soldiers won't be wiping out villages indiscriminately. They will inflict a measure of punishment and achieve tactical and strategic goals to advance the situation in their favor and once again try to achieve peace.
Posted by: thelinyguy at June 28, 2006 07:06 PM (7xc/4)
56
I view conventional warfare as nothing more than a more serious form of playground survival. In my personal experience, the most effective way to prevent being bullied is to elevate your response exponentially in relation to the original violence commited upon you.
After awhile the bullies learn to leave you alone. Even the hopelessly stupid ones.
This may be laughably simplistic, but I don't view human nature as being at all complicated. No group of people possesses an unlimited capacity to absorb violence. Kill enough and they'll submit. Even those animals in Palestine love somebody. Most of them at least. And almost all the rest fear at least pain and death.
Kill the women and children? No, not deliberately. But if a terrorist lives among them, then their lives should be given no consideration whatsoever in the pursuit of eliminating/punishing this threat.
After awhile the bullies learn to leave you alone. Even the hopelessly stupid ones.
This may be laughably simplistic, but I don't view human nature as being at all complicated. No group of people possesses an unlimited capacity to absorb violence. Kill enough and they'll submit. Even those animals in Palestine love somebody. Most of them at least. And almost all the rest fear at least pain and death.
Kill the women and children? No, not deliberately. But if a terrorist lives among them, then their lives should be given no consideration whatsoever in the pursuit of eliminating/punishing this threat.
Posted by: The Warden at June 28, 2006 07:08 PM (rZ5uY)
57
"In my personal experience, the most effective way to prevent being bullied is to elevate your response exponentially in relation to the original violence commited upon you."
This may be the best way to avoid being "bullied", but against more serious opponents it merely degenerates into a cycle of atrocites and dissolves the distinction between good and evil. The Peloponessian War is a perfect example of this. One side would commit atrocities, the other would reciprocate times two, and the war ended with both sides ashamed of themselves and without accomplishing anything.
This may be the best way to avoid being "bullied", but against more serious opponents it merely degenerates into a cycle of atrocites and dissolves the distinction between good and evil. The Peloponessian War is a perfect example of this. One side would commit atrocities, the other would reciprocate times two, and the war ended with both sides ashamed of themselves and without accomplishing anything.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 07:19 PM (gNw0L)
58
"but I guarantee you Israeli soldiers won't be wiping out villages indiscriminately"
Exactly. And the proud exhortation to level villages is a slander against the IDF. They are not barbarians but citizen soilders that value human life and have always avoided allowing themselves to be draged down to the level of Hamas-style thugs.
Exactly. And the proud exhortation to level villages is a slander against the IDF. They are not barbarians but citizen soilders that value human life and have always avoided allowing themselves to be draged down to the level of Hamas-style thugs.
Posted by: Jason at June 28, 2006 07:23 PM (gNw0L)
59
In my personal experience, the most effective way to prevent being bullied is to elevate your response exponentially in relation to the original violence commited upon you.
Same here. I've only been in a couple of street conflicts in my life, but a controlled massive escallation on the perps calmed things down VERY quickly.
They didn't know I was doing it under control of course, I probably looked like some sort of kill crazed berserker to a bystander.
Same here. I've only been in a couple of street conflicts in my life, but a controlled massive escallation on the perps calmed things down VERY quickly.
They didn't know I was doing it under control of course, I probably looked like some sort of kill crazed berserker to a bystander.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 28, 2006 11:28 PM (JuWpl)
60
Nuke Gaza. When have the terrorists ever learned from controlled response? Nuke them all.
Posted by: shawn at June 28, 2006 11:47 PM (yp3GE)
61
against more serious opponents it merely degenerates into a cycle of atrocites and dissolves the distinction between good and evil
I haven't heard much about imperialism from the Japanese lately.
Snark aside, dropping a nuke on a civilian population was a horrific way to end a war, but in my opinion the moral calculation was correct.
I'm not calling for anything of the sort in this case, but I'm convinced that an overwhelmingly aggressive response is the correct course to take.
I'd also challenge your characterization of the Palestinians as being "serious" opponents. Israel could wipe them out at will along with most of the Middle East.
I haven't heard much about imperialism from the Japanese lately.
Snark aside, dropping a nuke on a civilian population was a horrific way to end a war, but in my opinion the moral calculation was correct.
I'm not calling for anything of the sort in this case, but I'm convinced that an overwhelmingly aggressive response is the correct course to take.
I'd also challenge your characterization of the Palestinians as being "serious" opponents. Israel could wipe them out at will along with most of the Middle East.
Posted by: The Warden at June 29, 2006 04:28 AM (8WTw1)
62
Whoa, I'm all for the Israelis hitting back at the Palis, my point was that if they kill too many "civilians" it might turn public sentiment against them (albeit only in degree in most cases) in the wider theater of international politics. Not that I think Israel would be unjustified in old testament retribution, just that every war is a PR war these days, and "civilian causualties" arm your opponents.
Posted by: leoncaruthers at June 29, 2006 04:50 AM (7iTO9)
63
What purpose would the leveling of innocent Palestenian children serve?
None, other than that it prevents them from growing up to kidnap and murder Israeli citizens. I don't happen to agree with it as a viable tactic. Too sicilian, or even more nazi-ish for my taste.
None, other than that it prevents them from growing up to kidnap and murder Israeli citizens. I don't happen to agree with it as a viable tactic. Too sicilian, or even more nazi-ish for my taste.
Posted by: DG at June 29, 2006 05:37 AM (jPCiN)
64
Airmail the cocksuckers from 10,000 over Gaza.
Posted by: Mark at June 29, 2006 05:59 AM (isTfo)
65
Did someone say "hoes"?
Posted by: KM at June 29, 2006 06:19 AM (SxR3N)
66
Shawn - a University in Gaza?
What are the possible majors in a University in Gaza?
Wife beating - 102.
Advanced beheading.
How to become a great martyr.
The Complete Idiots guide to bomb belts.
The lonely desert wanderers guide to camels.
What are the possible majors in a University in Gaza?
Wife beating - 102.
Advanced beheading.
How to become a great martyr.
The Complete Idiots guide to bomb belts.
The lonely desert wanderers guide to camels.
Posted by: The Real Steve at June 29, 2006 06:58 AM (n0lBX)
67
Women, children, everyone huh? What purpose would the leveling of innocent Palestenian children serve?
Jason, first off, fuck you. And I mean that sincerely. You're a disgusting human being, beneath contempt.
Second, there are no innocent Palestinians. Every single one of them are complicit in mass murder and terrorism. Their entire culture, their existence in this world, is a blight on the human race.
It's people like you who will facilitate the evil in the world. Thanks to you, we'll never be able to reach these people and help them return to civilization. Instead, you will enable them and oppose any effort to label the Palestinians (and all the Muslims) as an evil culture that needs to be overhauled.
Jason, first off, fuck you. And I mean that sincerely. You're a disgusting human being, beneath contempt.
Second, there are no innocent Palestinians. Every single one of them are complicit in mass murder and terrorism. Their entire culture, their existence in this world, is a blight on the human race.
It's people like you who will facilitate the evil in the world. Thanks to you, we'll never be able to reach these people and help them return to civilization. Instead, you will enable them and oppose any effort to label the Palestinians (and all the Muslims) as an evil culture that needs to be overhauled.
Posted by: Bart at June 29, 2006 12:11 PM (mDjr/)
68
To all:
This is a very interesting thread. I am learning a lot. Thank you for sharing your views with us.
This is a very interesting thread. I am learning a lot. Thank you for sharing your views with us.
Posted by: seattle slough at June 29, 2006 12:25 PM (H5l9d)
69
To all:
This is a very interesting thread.
I am learning a lot.
Thank you for sharing your views with us.
Posted by: seattle slough on June 29, 2006 05:25 PM
Look everybody! There's a snake on the plane!
This is a very interesting thread.
I am learning a lot.
Thank you for sharing your views with us.
Posted by: seattle slough on June 29, 2006 05:25 PM
Look everybody! There's a snake on the plane!
Posted by: shawn at June 29, 2006 12:35 PM (yp3GE)
70
Zing!
I know better than to tussle with you Shawn. Too smart. Too funny. I am just not in your league. Please go easy on me.
I know better than to tussle with you Shawn. Too smart. Too funny. I am just not in your league. Please go easy on me.
Posted by: seattle slough at June 29, 2006 12:43 PM (H5l9d)
71
Meh, its moot, anyway.
The Israelis have the ability to strike pretty precisely and that seems to be their preference.
And its kind of cute how they litter an area with leaflets to let the Palestinians know ahead of time that the place is about to get bombed.
"Uhhh, we've noticed that you guys have been shooting stuff at us from here. You should probably scamper off, now, while we annihilate the infrastructure in this particular area. Now scoot, you little scamps!"
How they can exhibit such restraint after everything that has happened to them...they amaze me.
Nobody could blame them if they had gone medieval on the Palestinians long ago, but they haven't.
The Israelis have the ability to strike pretty precisely and that seems to be their preference.
And its kind of cute how they litter an area with leaflets to let the Palestinians know ahead of time that the place is about to get bombed.
"Uhhh, we've noticed that you guys have been shooting stuff at us from here. You should probably scamper off, now, while we annihilate the infrastructure in this particular area. Now scoot, you little scamps!"
How they can exhibit such restraint after everything that has happened to them...they amaze me.
Nobody could blame them if they had gone medieval on the Palestinians long ago, but they haven't.
Posted by: lauraw at June 29, 2006 01:00 PM (NpQqC)
72
"Second, there are no innocent Palestinians. Every single one of them are complicit in mass murder and terrorism."
So even a two-year old Palestinian child is not innocent eh? Even a two-year old Palestenian child deserves to die for having the misfortune of being born into a culture that "is a blight on the human race". I make it a point to never use Nazi analogies in argument, but I'm afraid I have to in this point. Replace Palesteninans with "Jew" in your post, and you sound exactly like Adolf Hitler.
"Thanks to you, we'll never be able to reach these people and help them return to civilization. "
Reach them by leveling their villages? The deuce you say!!!
So even a two-year old Palestinian child is not innocent eh? Even a two-year old Palestenian child deserves to die for having the misfortune of being born into a culture that "is a blight on the human race". I make it a point to never use Nazi analogies in argument, but I'm afraid I have to in this point. Replace Palesteninans with "Jew" in your post, and you sound exactly like Adolf Hitler.
"Thanks to you, we'll never be able to reach these people and help them return to civilization. "
Reach them by leveling their villages? The deuce you say!!!
Posted by: at June 29, 2006 03:36 PM (i4Gx3)
Posted by: Bart at June 30, 2006 11:24 AM (tJmG5)
74
Replace Palesteninans with "Jew" in your post, and you sound exactly like Adolf Hitler.
Fuck yeah, America!
I have arrived.
I might even print this, frame it, and put it on my wall.
Fuck yeah, America!
I have arrived.
I might even print this, frame it, and put it on my wall.
Posted by: Bart at June 30, 2006 11:26 AM (tJmG5)
75
Annoymous: So your argument is that even if all the Palestinians over the age of two or ten or fifteen or whatever are guilty of promoting the murder or random Israelis, they should not be bombed because there are innocent children among them? In effect, this allows them to use their own children as hostages to protect themselves from retribution. At what point do you say that the adults are guilty enough to outweigh this consideration? Because it's not always practically possible to sort the innocent from the guilty, and it's often dangerous to try.
Posted by: chris at June 30, 2006 01:04 PM (uwYCg)
Posted by: qww at August 11, 2011 10:02 PM (gdLrg)
77
To paraphrase Andrew Jackson, "The Supreme Court has made its ruling, now let them enforce it
Posted by: Coach Outlet at May 20, 2012 09:17 PM (8jW5E)
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