Ace of Spades HQ

November 19, 2009

Fred Thompson: The Afghan War "Has Been Lost"
— Ace

Ouch. The trouble with this sort of statement -- even though I agree with it -- is that it's hard for even a hack like me to explain why this statement is unobjectionable while Dingy Harry's "The war is lost" statement is noxious.

And yet: It is. Thompson is saying this to spur President Present into action, while Dingy Harry was urging only defeat.

"It really doesn't matter how President Obama divides the Afghan baby, how he splits the difference between McChrystal and Biden. Because the war has been lost," Thompson said on his radio show today. "I say this because of one sad and simple fact. The president does not have the will and determination to do what's necessary to win it. His heart's not in it, and never has been. The Taliban knows it. Al Qaeda knows it. Our allies know it. And the American people know it.
"Our enemies are now emboldened and our friends are discouraged. We cannot prevail if the American people are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary for an extended effort. The case has not been made to them to justify this effort. The case can only be made by the president. This president is unable or unwilling to make that case," Thompson said.

I can see the spin: Even conservatives like Fred Thompson say the war is lost, so Obama of course should surrender.

Posted by: Ace at 09:48 AM | Comments (250)
Post contains 249 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Bring these troops home so they can defend us. Let Afghan rot. If only Bush hadn't ignored Afghanistan this might have been avoided but, alas.

Posted by: LGF Fan at November 19, 2009 09:52 AM (SqAkN)

2 I got no problem with this.
If your not going to fight to win, don't fight.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at November 19, 2009 09:52 AM (SVIJA)

3
I think that's the point, Ace.

Obama is playing chicken with the American people to see who blinks first. He'll do nothing while more bad news keeps pouring in from Afghanistan and wait for us to finally say screw it, let's bug out.

Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 19, 2009 09:53 AM (jVldi)

4 Let me tell you how to win this thing.

Posted by: zombie Curtis Lemay at November 19, 2009 09:53 AM (4Kl5M)

5 They can have NYC. I never liked the Jets, Giants, Yankees, and Rangers any way.

Can we shoot at Al Q and the Taliban over the river from Jersey? Maybe 105 howitzers or 81 mortars?

Posted by: hous bin pharteen at November 19, 2009 09:54 AM (pU4D7)

Absol-friggin-lutely.

Win it or turn tail, don't leave them hanging out to dry.

Posted by: Rogue at November 19, 2009 09:54 AM (+Ec6O)

7
See? It's already working.

Plus, now that Obama is now a deficit hawk, he can drop subtle hints of how much staying in Afghanistan is costing us.

Obama will win this battle. The U.S. will withdraw from Afghanistan by next August.

Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 19, 2009 09:55 AM (jVldi)

Reminder to all who believe withdrawal is a good thing: How'd Afghanistan do the last time the U.S. wasn't there?

While I agree with Fred! in his assessment of the President's mindset, we (and the world) will reap a destructive, perhaps apocalyptic, whirlwind if we do not win.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 19, 2009 09:56 AM (B+qrE)

Bring our soldiers home!

Obama thinks of them as a 'photo op'

Posted by: lonestar at November 19, 2009 09:57 AM (CrJQs)

10 #4 zombie Curtis Lemay Nuke Mecca if they want to keep fighting us normal people?

Posted by: hous bin pharteen at November 19, 2009 09:57 AM (pU4D7)

11 Actually, I think its interesting to read the whole quote. Senator Thompson makes it clear why he says the war is lost. It's not because of something inherent in fighting over there. Rather, it is a lack of will demonstrated by the President of the United States. That, anyone, I believe, could discern just by watching how he has avoided making any decision about what to do about Afghanistan.

Its not a statement saying that our troops can't win. It's not a statement sayign that the Karzai regime is inherently incapable of providing what is needed to create the possibility of a peaceful Afghanistan (or at least as peaceful as Afghanistan has been historically pre-1979). The statement quoted above is what is wrong with our system, namely that the person who is in charge, ultimately, of fighting the war, lacks the will to prosecute the war.

Posted by: Bill at November 19, 2009 09:58 AM (mUl8k)

12
Think about it, though.

2010 is gonna be one hell of a tough year for spinning for Obama and the Democrats. Not only is the recession going to deepen, but Obama will be simultaneously prosecuting KSM and CIA agents while surrendering in Afghanistan to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 19, 2009 09:58 AM (jVldi)

13 Withdrawing in shame would be disasterous.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 19, 2009 09:58 AM (SqAkN)

Let the mass slaughter of all non Taliban Afgans begin.

Just another genecide caused by the malfeasance of the left.

Posted by: Doowleb at November 19, 2009 09:59 AM (r+Gn+)

15 The difference is that Harry said we've lost because he wanted to stop trying. Fred said we've lost because we *have* stopped trying.

Posted by: Joanna at November 19, 2009 10:00 AM (gJQTg)

16 Think of the fighting man in Afghanistan who sees this headline. Fred's got the right core ideas but it's his boneheaded, thoughtless ways of presenting himself like this that makes me steer clear of him.

Posted by: Crusty at November 19, 2009 10:00 AM (GvSpB)

17
Lest we forget, Obama had a plan ready to go in January left for him by Bush.

If Obama acted in February, Afghanistan would look a lot better than it does now.

Failure in Afghanistan is on Obama.

Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 19, 2009 10:01 AM (jVldi)

18 Left wingers actually HATE the military. So it does not matter to him how many soldiers get killed or maimed.

It is far better for Jihadist to kill Americans then Leftist to bomb the Pentagon again

Jane Fonda must be happy!.

Posted by: hous bin pharteen at November 19, 2009 10:02 AM (pU4D7)

19 I have never seen people on here agree with one of my sockpuppets before. That was wierd.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 19, 2009 10:02 AM (SqAkN)

20 I think this is a bad statement with a good meaning. My opinion of what he should have said is, "There is no objective for our men to win in Afghanistan, therefore, give them one and give them the resouces to achieve it, or bring home the troops."

Posted by: Truman North at November 19, 2009 10:02 AM (e8YaH)

21 Think of the fighting man in Afghanistan who sees this headline.

Almost everyone over there knows who is really looking out for them. And unfortunately as of late, a lot of them agree with Teh Fred's sentiment.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at November 19, 2009 10:03 AM (SVIJA)

22 Fred's statement is not objectionable, while Reid's is, because they differ on causation. Reid's "the war is lost" statement was based on the lie that the enemy was defeating us. Fred's is based on the statement - which he explicitly makes - that the wanker in the White House who is supposed to be in charge of prosecuting the war is failing to do so. He is blunt: to win the war, the American people have to be behind it and willing to pay the priced needed to win; they are not because the Lawn-Jockey-In-Chief is not supporting the effort, and not making any effort to sell the war to the citizenry. If Obama is in charge, he is saying, then the war is lost. Quod erat demonstrandum.*

I remain convinced we could win this war faster than you could say "Semper Fi," if only we had a leader willing to make it happen. Which we don't.

* Latin for "thanks a buttload, 52-percenters."

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 19, 2009 10:03 AM (Jdtsu)

23 Afghanistan, in the hands of Democrats, has been lost.

Posted by: nickless at November 19, 2009 10:04 AM (MMC8r)

24 If zero had even one nad that M did not have in a vise he might actually be able to man up.

Posted by: mbruce at November 19, 2009 10:05 AM (t/GDA)

25 Ouch. The trouble with this sort of statement -- even though I agree with it -- is that it's hard for even a hack like me to explain why this statement is unobjectionable while Dingy Harry's "The war is lost" statement is noxious.

The difference between this statement and Reid's is that Reid was trying to describe a fact on the ground, which no adminstration position could change, while Fred! is describing a natural result of the administration's position.

For what it's worth, The Precedent is very intentionally trying to throw the Afghan war, as the dithering has been his strategy from the very start.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 10:06 AM (A46hP)

26 Fred presented it correctly, it needs a shocking lead to get press. Don't worry about the men in the A'stan, they are very well informed. You gotta watch the press cycles (esp on Thursday as they prep the weekend coverages and talkshow billets). Obama thought he would get a few more news cycles out of the KSM to NYC mess, well, it did knock Sarah's book off of the front page.

Posted by: Jean at November 19, 2009 10:06 AM (tJF9l)

27 The trouble with this sort of statement -- even though I agree with it -- is that it's hard for even a hack like me to explain why this statement is unobjectionable while Dingy Harry's "The war is lost" statement is noxious.

Here's the difference: Reid loudly proclaimed that the Iraq war was "lost" scarcely days after President Bush implemented the surge that later proved to be successful. Fred's statement, on the other hand, comes after months of Obama sitting around with his thumb up his butt, doing nothing except basking in the glow of his own awesomeness while watching HBO documentaries about himself.

Posted by: OregonMuse at November 19, 2009 10:06 AM (hoowK)

28 "has been lost"

Obama lost the war

Posted by: wHodat at November 19, 2009 10:07 AM (+sBB4)

He attacks Obama like he campaigned. Loser.

Posted by: Pelvis at November 19, 2009 10:07 AM (LlaBi)

30 Our dear reader is much more interested in restructuring America into his very own personal tin pot two bit dictatorship than he is doing anything else.

Posted by: bill-tb at November 19, 2009 10:07 AM (iiiMw)

31 Kind of reminds me of a previous conflict in ways.

Posted by: Javems at November 19, 2009 10:09 AM (hq71Y)

32 This imminent failure is not a reflection on Obama's (pbuh) intestinal fortitude. This is the desired result.

Barack Obama does not seek to keep his country at the apex; he seeks to drag America into the trash heap of history, although he is a Stalinist, not a Trotskyite.

Posted by: NJConservative at November 19, 2009 10:09 AM (/Ywwg)

33 "The insurgent leader...does not attempt to deceive us. He affords no excuse to deceive ourselves. He can not voluntarily accept the Union; we can not voluntarily yield it. Between him and us the issue is distinct, simple, and inflexible. It is an issue which can only be tried by war and decided by victory."
-- Abraham Lincoln, Annual Message to Congress, Dec. 6, 1864

Abraham Lincoln knew better than most that what is most needed in a Commander-in-Chief is resolve. That the time for debates and agonizing and triangulation is before the war begins; that once the war is underway, the only moral course is to fight to win.

You never heard Lincoln talk of "exit strategies" and "off ramps" and "staged withdrawals". Granted his situation was different; but he had a terrible, iron-hard will where it mattered most: to see the war through to victory. He did his best to avoid war, but once it was fairly begun he resolved to win it no matter what it took. And what it took was the deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians, of a ruined economy and a ravaged South. Lincoln could do that because he possessed a terrifying morality: a morality that could send a pink-cheeked boy just off the farm to a certain death, knowing that such an action was the only way to save the Union.

Our enemies have taken Obama's measure, as they did Jimmy Carter before him. Obama does not have the belly to fight. He knows in his mind that the fight is necessary, but his spirit quails at the cost. And without his will as CiC to drive the effort, it cannot succeed. The soldiers look to the generals, and the generals look to him...but see only fecklessness, hesitation, and indecision.

Posted by: Monty at November 19, 2009 10:09 AM (4Pleu)

34 How about, "Obama has lost Afghanistan"?

Posted by: Truman North at November 19, 2009 10:10 AM (e8YaH)

35 Reid was wishing, Fred's lamenting.

Posted by: nickless at November 19, 2009 10:10 AM (MMC8r)

Ben Smith is such a dick:

Thompson's words seem to lay the groundwork for Republican opposition to further American engagement in Afghanistan, cast here as halfhearted.

No, dick, it means Republicans want MUCH further engagement. But if Obama won't do that, then cut losses now.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at November 19, 2009 10:11 AM (ujg0T)

37 I hope Afghanistan fails. But Pakistan would have been worse.

Posted by: oblig. hides the premise at November 19, 2009 10:11 AM (aK/MY)

Afghanistan?

Sorry.

Never heard of it.

Posted by: B. Obamavich, Chairman - Poliburo, Central Committee at November 19, 2009 10:11 AM (s2bW4)

39 Fred, wake up from your nap and let me help you:

Obama screwed up the Afghan elections.

Obama is losing the war.

Obama is dithering on troops.

Posted by: wHodat at November 19, 2009 10:12 AM (+sBB4)

40 Monty you should have your own blog.

Posted by: Jewells at November 19, 2009 10:12 AM (l/N7H)

41
yeah, according to Ben Smith, of the Shitico, Fred Thompson is now the de-facto leader of the Republicans in Congress.

Posted by: goforitbillbelichik at November 19, 2009 10:12 AM (jVldi)

"has been lost"

Obama lost is losing the war.

Words matter.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at November 19, 2009 10:13 AM (ujg0T)

yeah, according to Ben Smith, of the Shitico, Fred Thompson is now the de-facto leader of the Republicans in Congress.

The Politico either (1) slants leftward or (2) treats issues like they are horse races, but Ben Smith is in a special class of leftist dickwad.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at November 19, 2009 10:14 AM (ujg0T)

44 An unfortunate choice of words by Fred.

Posted by: Jewells at November 19, 2009 10:16 AM (l/N7H)

45 Here's the difference: Reid loudly proclaimed that the Iraq war was "lost" scarcely days after President Bush implemented the surge that later proved to be successful. Fred's statement, on the other hand, comes after months of Obama sitting around with his thumb up his butt, doing nothing except basking in the glow of his own awesomeness while watching HBO documentaries about himself.

No you don't get it. Here's the difference. When Reid said it, it was all over media with pictures of body bags explosions, and an Iraq in civil war meme.

When Fred's comment get's aired it will be right after they air commentary by Hannity, Levine, Limbaugh, and Beck, decrying Reid for facilitating loss, and causing US troops to get killed by emboldening the enemy. Just to make the point of hypocrisy clear; it will be followed by further opinion of panel experts reaffirming what Limbaugh et al said and finally floating the meme the Republican politics and hate of the administration is going to cost US soldiers their lives, all in the name of the petty partisan politics that America "hates". THATS THE DIFFERENCE.

Yeah thanks Fred, I get it, I sympathize, but your not HELPING anything here.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 19, 2009 10:16 AM (0q2P7)

46 Leave my fellow jihadi alone

Posted by: Spencer Abraham at November 19, 2009 10:17 AM (vfQBi)

47 Its not "lost" per se. What may be lost are notions of nation building, elections, women's rights, blah, blah, etc, etc.

If you recalibrate expectations and get rid of all that twaddle that flies like a lead balloon in Afghanistan, and focus on defanging the Taliban and AQ, and ignore the political shit in Kabul, then you've got something that is very attainable.

Can/will the Obamunists take that approach? Of course not.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 19, 2009 10:18 AM (eESb/)

48 Ben Smith is such a dick:
Thompson's words seem to lay the groundwork for Republican opposition to further American engagement in Afghanistan, cast here as halfhearted.
No, dick, it means Republicans want MUCH further engagement. But if Obama won't do that, then cut losses now.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at November 19, 2009 03:11 PM (ujg0T)

Well put - though I am still not for pulling out of Afghanistan until Iran and Pakistan nuke issues have been dealt with. The Precedent cannot remain in office too much longer (our nation just won't survive it) and our presence in Afghanistan is more important over the longer term, for more than just Afghanistan.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 10:19 AM (A46hP)

49 You know, maybe i'm nuts, but at this point I hope the military just goes ahead and wins this thing on their terms, then dare obama to do something about it.

Posted by: Berserker at November 19, 2009 10:19 AM (gWHrG)

50 Reid was the sitting Senate Majority leader when he asked for defeat; that matters. Forget the very different contexts of what the two men said; Thompson is hosting a radio talk show, Reid was an elected official of considerable importance. Thompson wants to win the war in Afghanistan; Reid very much wanted US defeat in Iraq.

Posted by: UGAdawg at November 19, 2009 10:22 AM (ev309)

You know, maybe i'm nuts, but at this point I hope the military just goes ahead and wins this thing on their terms, then dare obama to do something about it.

I like your style.

Posted by: Zombie Douglas MacArthur at November 19, 2009 10:23 AM (ujg0T)

Leave Barry alone. He said a couple of weeks ago that he's make a decision in a couple of weeks. And a couple of weeks before that he said he make a decision in a couple of weeks. And a couple of weeks before that he said he make a decision in a couple of weeks. He's been very consistant with making that decision in a couple of weeks over the last few months. Now he'll do it after Thanksgiving. Can't he just finish his turkey?

Posted by: TheQuietman at November 19, 2009 10:25 AM (1Jaio)

53 When the Taliban accept Maobama's offer, you'll be wishing he was still dithering.

Posted by: Spencer Abraham at November 19, 2009 10:26 AM (vfQBi)

Thanks Obama you fucktard

Posted by: Todd at November 19, 2009 10:29 AM (LLOGQ)

55 "- is that it's hard for even a hack like me to explain why this statement is unobjectionable while Dingy Harry's "The war is lost" statement is noxious." Ace

Okay Ace- it's like this. Dirty Harry's crack came when we were actually TRYING TO WIN- with an engaged POTUS.
NOW- our POTUS is not trying to win. He is trying to 'bleed' the conflict until America gets tired of our soldiers dying for nothing. Our POTUS doesn't even have the stones to end it- Fred does.

Posted by: ExTex at November 19, 2009 10:30 AM (t6yvu)

56
As much as I like Fred, he should not have used the passive voice. Instead of "the war has been lost," he should have said, "Obama lost the war." Clear, simple, factual statements are the best way to cut through the Obullshit.

Posted by: Brown Line at November 19, 2009 10:31 AM (VrNoa)

57 What pisses me off is this fuckwad was playing Mr tough guy during the debates, Oh he was gonna go catch binladen with his bare hands, this is the real war we should have kept an eye on, we shouldn't be muddling blah blah blah *burp* fart wheeze and whatever fucking else fell out of his talking ass.

The dude is empty suit and way over his fucking head.

Posted by: Berserker at November 19, 2009 10:31 AM (gWHrG)

52 / Quietman:

Manyana: It doesn't mean tommorow, it just means not today

Posted by: B. Obamavich, Chairman - Poliburo, Central Committee at November 19, 2009 10:31 AM (s2bW4)

59 Regretably, Fred is correct. Obama does not have the will to win, therefore the war is lost. At this point, we may as well withdraw. Better for everyone if we at least do not pretend to be doing something we do not in fact have the will to do. As long as the 52% stand with Obama, the "terrorism is just a crime, nothing to worry about" approach will prevail. So, in a nutshell, the war on terror is lost. May as well admit it and start making plans for what to do after Iranian supplied nukes allow al-qaida to destroy NY, San Francisco, DC, Houston, and maybe half a dozen other cities. MAYBE, after we lose a few cities, all the people in America will take Islamic terrorism seriously, but I doubt it.

Posted by: BattleofthePyramids at November 19, 2009 10:31 AM (7HL8W)

60 You know, maybe i'm nuts, but at this point I hope the military just goes ahead and wins this thing on their terms, then dare obama to do something about it.

More than likely the commanders on the ground will turtle up and quit sending out patrols. Keep the guys on base until the word comes down to move them back home.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at November 19, 2009 10:31 AM (SVIJA)

61 While I appreciate Fred's intention, I think it would have been much better for him to more accurately describe the situation. He should have just stated the simple, and obvious, fact that The Precedent is intentionally trying to lose the war for us, and should be brought up on charges for such treason.

It is getting to be time that people need to publicly talk about how The Precedent is working against American interests and that he needs to be held to account, at some point. And they should throw in the fact that The Precedent is as stupid as all get-out, too.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 10:32 AM (A46hP)

62 Obama, sadly, is just continuing the poor leadership that George W. Bush started in Afghanistan. What is the objective of the war? Is it annhilation of the Taliban? The abolition of Al Qaeda? The rebuidling of Afghanistan into a modern 21st-century nation? What? Whatever tactical objectives military commanders are given, there must be a strategic directive -- that's what we mean by "winning the war". If we fail to achieve the strategic objective (or fail to have one at all) then the war is lost by definition.

At least W. seemed to recognize that Afghanistan was a multi-decade project -- something that Americans don't like to hear. We don't like long wars; five years is about our limit. It's not a question of dedication or martial prowess; it's mainly that we think like civilians rather than combatants. It's a good thing, usually, to behave in that way. We are not a militaristic people, but a mercantilist one. War is bad for business. Unfortunately, Afghanistan (and Pakistan) are part of an older world, a world outside the Westphalian city-state fold. To "win" a war like this requires long time-horizons (measured in decades, not years) and a hard heart -- it requires doing things that America may not have the belly to do. (Russia, in contrast, failed not through a weakness of will but through sheer martial incompetence. Marry Russian ideology to American skill at arms and you'd pacify Afghanistan in a month...or leave it a barren field of smoldering corpses. To the Russians, either way is good.)

Posted by: Monty at November 19, 2009 10:32 AM (4Pleu)

63 Thompson should keep comments like that inside the walls. They don't need to be public. I don't like it when Democrats like Kerry, Reid, Pelosi et al say bullshit like this-and when Republicans do it I don't like it any better. There are people fighting, and dying out there. Give them moral support, and behind closed doors say wars are lost. complain behind closed doors, and quietly get them what they need to win-or get the heck out.

Posted by: jeff at November 19, 2009 10:34 AM (Sx9Qk)

64 I think complete withdrawal is a better option than a micro-managed war given just enough resources to show 51% of the public that Obama is 'tough". If teh Fred's statement causes Obama to get behind winning the war, great. If not, hopefully it at least causes Obama to rethink his dithering.

Posted by: gau at November 19, 2009 10:38 AM (n1uMU)

65 Very stupid phrasing by Thompson. He isn't actually saying the war is lost. He is saying that victory requires a president who wants to win, and so the war WILL be lost, since we don't have such a president. Will be lost and lost are very different things, and throwing this kind of stupid statement out to be misused by the opposition is very careless. Again, Thompson fails to impress. If only he really wanted to win, he could have gotten the nomination, but like Obama in Afghanistan, he lacked the will. If he can't stop saying stupid things now he ought to just shut up.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at November 19, 2009 10:40 AM (c+6of)

I had thought this was the Real "good and Just war",, What are they doing here? I had thought what had been said initially of why Taliban- Al Qaida had become powerful there was a vacuum that had been left after Russia . So The administration and their cronies that argued this point? is no longer interested?

Posted by: willow at November 19, 2009 10:40 AM (GkYyh)

67 Republicans need to learn that every word matters. Never say anything the liberal Pravda can spin. Every phrase can be a soundbite.

Fred should have said "Obama is losing Afghanistan." And he should keep saying it at every opportunity -- until O! either mans up and works for victory, or admits he got elected President to lead America into defeat.

Posted by: Trimegistus at November 19, 2009 10:41 AM (6yEzu)

68 are* no longer interested

Posted by: willow at November 19, 2009 10:44 AM (GkYyh)

69 Harry Reid said our enemies had won.

Fred Thompson says our Commander-in-Chief has abdicated, or at worst, surrendered, and is letting our enemies win.

Posted by: stuiec at November 19, 2009 10:46 AM (Ate22)

70 If he had said "Obama is losing Afghanistan" it would have gotten no attention. Zero. At least this way there's some attention drawn to the fact that Obama is screwing things up.

Posted by: grognard at November 19, 2009 10:49 AM (v0kvW)

71 Zombie Curtis LeMay is a pansie. He has no idea how to win a real war on the ground. Hearts and minds? I got your hearts and minds right here, buddy, and my dogs think they're pretty tasty.

Posted by: Zombie William T. Sherman at November 19, 2009 10:51 AM (T1boi)

Can we shoot at Al Q and the Taliban over the river from Jersey? Maybe 105 howitzers or 81 mortars? -

Meh, I served on 105'^s(the 10deuce version) and 155'^s. Let's go with the baby with the big silver tube. Or maybe even 8" self propelled (I heard those are really something). Or just give 'em new york, build a wall around the place and fill it with water. Imagine the fishing in a couple three years.

Posted by: teej at November 19, 2009 10:51 AM (QdUKm)

...it's hard for even a hack like me to explain why this statement is unobjectionable while Dingy Harry's "The war is lost" statement is noxious.

Difference: Dingy Harry wanted the U.S. to fail.

Posted by: Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg at November 19, 2009 10:53 AM (WGcw3)

74 Barry has more important things to worry about right now. Like the Eggo shortage.

Posted by: TheQuietman at November 19, 2009 10:54 AM (1Jaio)

75 Barack is racking up some really big wins. The 787B stimulus, jobs saved or created, Afghanistan. Just think, he's just getting warmed up.

Posted by: Booter at November 19, 2009 10:57 AM (eimUK)

Our absence or severe reduction in troops will send the mid-east into an absolute tailspin w/no hope for recovery, I agree w/progress o peace...Afghan-ee-ston is just one part of the puzzle...Like it or not BO, WE are the worlds police force WE are exceptional. BO is sending the world into the abyss, hows that liberal compassion & smart diplomacy workin out for the 52-ers now?

Posted by: dananjcon at November 19, 2009 11:03 AM (pr+up)

77 Why don't Obama and Holder just have all the Taliban arrested? They are guilty. And WHEN they are prosecuted in our criminal court system, and WHEN they are convicted and WHEN they are put to death, the war will be one.

you know, if that stuff happens.

Obama's an idiot.

Posted by: alppuccino at November 19, 2009 11:05 AM (XOZ0o)

74 Barry has more important things to worry about right now. Like the Eggo shortage.

As a fat guy, this is very distressing, If the heinekin brewery blows up next..you may never see me on this post again.

Posted by: dananjcon at November 19, 2009 11:06 AM (pr+up)

79 Well, for shit, I would hate to be boots on the ground right now. At leaat when I was in, we had a president with balls, I sure do miss Ronald Reagan

Posted by: Todd at November 19, 2009 11:06 AM (LLOGQ)

80 Re#63 jeff

"There are people fighting, and dying out there. Give them moral support, and behind closed doors say wars are lost. complain behind closed doors, and quietly get them what they need to win-or get the heck out."

The truth should never be shrouded.
Fred says that The One lacks the will to win. He's just being polite. The One wants to lose this war and if he had gotten his healthcare bill through already, he would be declaring his intention to withdraw right now. But he needs more time.
Fred's statement challenges BO and his supporters to agree or disagree. Of course, they'd rather do neither at this time as doing either would hurt him now or hurt him later.
Which is Fred's point.

Posted by: RayJ at November 19, 2009 11:11 AM (YcjCJ)

"I say this because of one sad and simple fact. The president does not have the will and determination to do what's necessary to win it. His heart's not in it, and never has been

Fred qualified his statement here succinctly...its the parrot press that will butcher the shit out of his words. Still like the cut of Fred's jib too bad he couldn't muster-up the energy to run a decent campaign.

Eh... his wife is milfy, what does he care.

Posted by: dananjcon at November 19, 2009 11:14 AM (pr+up)

82 With Holder being KSM and crew to the states and handing them "our" rights, it is obvious that Obama intends to treat the war as a reactionary criminal model. Fred is right and he is saying what we are all thinking.There is no confidence in our Commander and Chief, it is his responsibility to set forth a plan and with KSM in New York, that plan is becoming crystal clear. Obama has the ability to lose the war and we cannot stop him. Afghanistan is a tough nut to crack and it would take dedication from the top down to pull off a strategy that could leave the place in a better light than what it has been.When I say better light, I mean that the place would never be anywhere near what we would like to have it be but at the same time, it would not be the next stronghold for the second generation Taliban forces that are sure to move in. Obama can lose the war in Afghanistan if he chooses, pull out the troops and make the left, the Taliban and AQ some very happy campers but the war will be back within our borders in no time flat, it isn't over by a long shot. At this point, with terrorist/enemy combatants sitting in New York awaiting their trials, I have to say that Fred is right....DO....NOT....LOSE.....ONE....MORE....TROOP.....For Obama. We very well may need these troops back home to protect us against all enemies both foreign and domestic the way this Country is sliding down the slope of history.

Posted by: Drider at November 19, 2009 11:15 AM (aZn+0)

83 Put me in the camp that believes Fred Thompson badly phrased his words and opened us up to the comparison ace indicated. For good or bad, during a fight I have always taken the black knight approach or if you prefer, the Cool Hand Luke approach. You can criticize how we are prosecuting the war but never,ever declare you have lost while you're still fighting.

Posted by: polynikes at November 19, 2009 11:21 AM (m2CN7)

84 It is O's intention that the public turn against the war, so that he can take no blame. Meanwhile soldiers die.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at November 19, 2009 11:21 AM (DIYmd)

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Even as you defend the Fred's statement you yourself say what Fred should have said.

Posted by: polynikes at November 19, 2009 11:23 AM (m2CN7)

86 Put me in the camp that believes Fred Thompson badly phrased his words and opened us up to the comparison ace indicated. For good or bad, during a fight I have always taken the black knight approach or if you prefer, the Cool Hand Luke approach. You can criticize how we are prosecuting the war but never,ever declare you have lost while you're still fighting. --------------------------------------------------------------- Polynikes, I would agree wholeheartedly with you but the CnC finally after weeks of balking on how to carry on this engagement showed his hand when his AG brought KSM to New York to for Federal prosecution. It is not blowing it out of proportion in the least the meaning. Obama does not intend but he "IS" now firmly commited to using our troops as some kind of worldwide police force to bring terrorists home to stand trial with American rights.......How can we even do that? How can we do that without changing "our rights", it's impossible. It is time, it is the first time in my life where the term "No confidence in the CnC" actually lives up to the definition.The time for cool handness is over, at this moment our troops are dying for a commander with no spine, who cannot give two hoots for anything that is not him. Of course, you can answer the question that L. Grahm put to Holder on what we would do if we captured OBL tomorrow, Holder didn't know, Leahy said we had no use of interrogating him if we did catch him, how much more proof do we need that our current leaders don't have a clue and it is our troops that are dying for it or should I say them (the leaders) because there is no coherent strategy to go by, possibly on purpose.

Posted by: Drider at November 19, 2009 11:40 AM (aZn+0)

87 Obama has the ability to lose the war Drider at November 19, 2009 04:15 PM (aZn+0) Even as you defend the Fred's statement you yourself say what Fred should have said. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your right, point well taken.

Posted by: Drider at November 19, 2009 11:41 AM (aZn+0)

88 Afghanistan may well be unwinnable. But Bush had no choice but to go in. Now that we're in, and have bungled it to the point of losing, allowing the Taliban to come back and threaten Pakistan, pulling out could be disastrous. Showing weakness in this region now could start a chain of events that lead to World War III.

Posted by: obama is a traitor at November 19, 2009 11:48 AM (Qt4Y7)

89 Well, I'm gonna stop beating a dead horse after this post, I promise. Whereas I did agree with polynikes that Fred should maybe have phrased the statement as "Obama having the ability to lose the war". At this point in time, with the recent development taking place in New York, I am apt to disagree, either there is confidence in our CnC or there is not. It is clear that there is not (from my point of view). At what point do you finally say t is over, ditch the politics and pray that people can see for themselves how this spineless administration handled our security and bring the troops back home? At what point does it become clear that our leadership simply doesn't have our forces best interests at heart during wartime and we bring them home(notice I didn't say out of harms way due to the "inexplicable act" that took place at Fort Hood).

Posted by: Drider at November 19, 2009 11:53 AM (aZn+0)

90 Harry Reid: We have lost the war because it is a war we cannot win no matter what.

Fred Thompson: We have lost the war because we do not care if we win, the enemy knows this, will wait us out, and thus unless we convince them that we intend to win, we have lost.

One is one of hopelessness, the other is telling a prophecy that need not come true, and is in fact being told so that it does not come true.

The blunt fact is that the last several months of deliberately holding off on a decision one way or another have most likely give the Taliban such hope that only a series of sustained attrition losses or a single sharp (and major) setback will set them (and the supporting/neutral populace) back to the psychological level they were at this spring. Right now, they have hope to live on, hope that the Americans, as all who have entered their lands do, are at that point where thoughts of going home start to become more prominent in the mind. They expect to outlast us now, as a near certainty, and deal with the environment after our withdrawal as they are able. The thoughts and fears of earlier, of wondering if they would ever again have a world without Americans in it, have certainly ended for the moment. They should be looking at least somewhat eagerly to the future for a change.

Thus, they have that hope of victory again--and all because some have decided that they needed to complete their college thesis on international affairs with real nations and real lives, and take those months to do the equivalent of the "Grand Tour" of strategy (assuming it was even done). As Napoleon realized, it is the moral force that wins you wars. It will take American blood to just get them back to the point where they were earlier--though in the act of getting them back to that point, we may crush their spirits enough to cause a complete collapse, since sometimes dreams deferred just implode. Or not. Tough to tell with such a flinty population.

Posted by: Horatius at November 19, 2009 11:53 AM (MnHFa)

Drider I understand the frustration but the way I see it is the enemy fighters aren't looking at our wonkish arguments. They will take this statement and it will provide the same aid and comfort that Reid's statement gave them. And likely even more since it comes from the 'fighting' side of the aisle.

If Fred truly believes we have lost the war, then his next step should be to advocate getting us out of Afghanistan as soon as possible. If he is using it as a hammer to push Obama to do something to win , I believe he is using the wrong strategy that demoralizes our troops and emboldens our enemies further.

As I have reluctantly indicated before, we have lost less than a 1000 KIA in this eight year war. We kicked out the Taliban from power easily and killed hundreds of Taliban and Al Queda leaders. We have allowed for multiple free elections and have the Taliban and Al Queda hiding in the mountains unable to organize an attack on our homeland. Afghanistan is now becoming the flytrap for terrorists as Iraq once was so the surge of fighting is not a suprise to me. We have much more to do but we are far far from having lost this war.

Unfortunately, I agree that its possible that Obama can find a way to lose it.

Posted by: polynikes at November 19, 2009 12:10 PM (m2CN7)

We absolutely cannot afford to have Pakistan collapse, not with them holding nukes. And the only way to suppress the Taliban in Pakistan for the US is from Afganistan.

Of course if we had the guts to go in and take away the nukes then that would be one solution but that is one action that this closet moslem president will never take. But if the jihadis get a nuke I can see them dropping it into the bottom of a oil tank on an oil tanker, filling the tank with crude, and then sailing that to Houston or Rotterdam and setting it off.

Lastly the simple truth is that we can fight them over there or we will be fighting them over here.

Posted by: agesilaus at November 19, 2009 12:23 PM (eOGcs)

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Posted by: GarandFan at November 19, 2009 12:30 PM (ZQBnQ)

94 Why in hell could ol' Fred not have used the word "surrendered" instead of "lost?"

What he should have said:
"The Ditherer-in-Chief has orchestrated a de-facto surrender."

That is how one avoids parroting Senator "Ashen Piehole."

I swear, the Republicans badly need a course in public speaking, and one in rhetoric. Otherwise the teleprompter readers who run against them will own them every time.

I've heard Rudy speak his sibiances without the damned lisp,
the nervous laughter, and the stuttering.
I've heard Romney speak without the staccato monotone, without the wonkish, tall-grass, accountant-rules soporifics.
I've heard Fred speak like a man with energy and fire.
I've heard Sarah speak like a person with iron determination.

They all fail to "bring it," like allstars, when they are in public and in interviews. It's a performance, man! Play to win.

For some reason the nerves take over when speaking in public. Even ol' Huck trips over his tongue now and then. Usually spectacularly.

But these folks let the Huckster trump them continually when it comes to public speaking. If he runs again, his Bush-like, statist version of Conservatism will damage the campaigns of any challengers. Again.

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