1 And, yet, he's gaining in the polls.  Go figure.

2 Yep, Obama said everything was going fine until McCain arrived. They're blaming their shit on McCain's presence.

3 I believe Ace said it himself; Depressions breed socialists like cockroaches.

The Dems want economic collapse because that will give them the election, and Obama an opportunity for his own New Deal.

4 Must be the best thing McCain done since Vietnam. Both ruining the deal and gaining in the polls? Epic Win.

5 Honestly, I could never be a politician.  How do these fuckers sleep at night?

6 Armed guards.

7

Please, please let this sellout tank.  Are you folks aware that the dhimmies are demanding that car, student, credit card debt be included in this bailout and that people not making their mortgage payments be subsidized by the government?

If you play the game by the rules, live within your means you are a sucker to be fleeced by these rotten crooks.

 

Its time for a revolution.

 

8

Great - so if it fails, it will be the Dems playing partisan politics becasue they don't want McCain to get any credit for it.

Sleep easy, people.  If we don't win this round, 2010 is going to be an electoral bloodbath for the Democrats.

9 They know not what they do.

10 So, since the deal's basically tanked, can we move to the next phase?

How do you think the impending economic explosion on Monday will now affect the race for the White House, senate, and congress?

11 The Democrats can't make this line work if Fox reported it before they even started the spin. You want war, donks, you'll get it. And thanks for proving you don't give two shits about anything in the end except your own power.

12 I was just watching The One comment on the situation on Fox and of all the culprits in this mess he fails to mention individual responsibility. We couldn't possibly blame the assholes who bought more than they could actually pay for.

13 >>They know not what they do.

They know.  They just don't give a fuck.

14 The "other shoe dropping" will be Obama rushing back to Washington to save the day.....because the dems are not going to do anything that benefits McCain.  I kind of sort of remember predicting this would happen last night.

15 I know I'm supposed to be shocked but, really, c'mon...

16

I can't believe Obama went on Fox, the sky must be falling. This man is a slim ball beyond belief. But I have to ask where the f are the republicans rebutting this shit. I'm so mad I could just scream. As long as no one is coming on and disputing this tripe from Obama then he will win in the perception war. This is just sick shit.

17

Agree or disagree with the bailout, I at least ask that the folks involved negotiate in good faith when dealing with such high stakes. To torpedo the bailout, not out of ideology but out of political calculation to make McCain look bad is fucking sick.

Just. Fucking. Sick. 

18 Ace have you found the actual legislation written anywhere online? I'd love to dig through it...

19

If you play the game by the rules, live within your means you are a sucker to be fleeced by these rotten crooks.

 

Its time for a revolution.

Thomas,

You are right. They passed the auto bail out yesterday. They are sneaking in credit card and auto notes today.

I'm such a chump for paying off my credit cards and my auto loan.

Why play by the rules anymore?

20 there is no actual legislation.  they're still working out the precepts of it, the outlines of it. they're nowhere near getting to actual bill-writing.

21 >>I'm such a chump for paying off my credit cards and my auto loan.

Not so.  The history shows us that these people who were bailed out will be back in debt again very soon.  Meanwhile, you will be in the best position to weather the storm after the euphoria wears off from this bailout.

22

Neil Cavuto's wife wants to know if they can go to the bank and get their credit cards "taken care of". WTF?

 

23 when the economy craters into recession, we'll all similarly be rewarded.  So you'll have that justice to console you.

"Time for a revolution."

Good God.  Can we be a little more grown up and a little less strutting he-man individualist Action Hero fantasy here?

For God's sake.

Silly fantasies are best kept private.  They're a bit embarrassing when expressed in public.

"Obama's just gained six points.  Time for a revolution."

"The courts ruled against me.  Time for a revolution."

"Republicans just sold me out.  Time for a revolution."

What, do you have a clock which has every hour marked "revolution"? Does the clock strike "revolution" every sixty fucking minutes?

24 When do we start the rolling up of the sleeves and the slitting of throats?

25

Admiral Akbar has some advice on this deal for Senator McCain. 

When I heard Obama say "if they need me I'll be there" I knew that the fix was in - if he thought there was any gain at all in it, he'd be all over it.  This is a man who thinks he can stop the oceans' rise, he's Mr. Hope and Change and Unity and surely he could fix this, or at least help in fixing it.  His statement about the debates is that the people need to see the candidates who will be dealing with it - and how better for us to see than to have them in the Senate working to form a concensus?

Obama knows that whatever happens is going to be very unpopular.  A deal happens, McCain's name is going to be all over it, and the Democrats are going to stick very bitter if not entirely toxic pills into it (surely he can guess that, but no doubt they have told him). 

And if they fail to get a deal, the failure redounds to McCain, not to Obama or the Democrats who actually control the Congress - ABC ran the helpful (to Obama) story that Paulson called McCain to Washington to make the deal happen with Republicans - like the guys he called a bunch of racists over the comprehensive immigration thing are in a hurry to kiss his ass. 

We are so effed, because these effers would rather have a Depression than lose an election.  Cocksuckers. 

26

This is the biggest political football in the history of political analogies.  Trying to get something like this done 6 weeks before a general election is almost guaranteed to fail.  If the Dhems would put party ahead of winning a war, then they would tank this deal to make sure John McCain gets zero advantage from it...even if it meant the US would look like the world in Tom Petty's video "you got lucky." 

 

27 The Feds just seized WaMu. The bozos in DC--and I mean all of them--better get their shit together and get it together fast. Because if they don't it's not going to matter who wins this election.

28

The Dems are so stupid they don't realize that pinning failure of this bill on Mccain will mean a net gain of votes? 

29

I was for a deal that keeps the government running smooth-ish. Houston has been even more uninhabitable than usual lately.

However I am not for any deal that gets larded up with goodies for the boys back home. Remember how in late 2001-2002 we had pork bills every other week with the word "Security" on the header? Yeah.

Mike Pence is right. "Act now or the deal is off!" is what you'd expect from a used-car merchant. I'm not. Having it. From the government.

30 Hey, I guess the dems are finally taking some pointers from the repubs on how to when elections.

31 I have a clock with every hour marked "anal." I bet you don't mind that, do you Ace?

32 “They will take the phrase ‘under God’ away from me when my cold, dead lips can no longer utter those words”

33 Uh-oh.  Pelosi just used the phrase, "Time is of the essence."  I don't think Anne Hathaway is the only one about to get it in the ass.

34 I respect the House Republicans for trying to ensure the taxpayers get the best possible deal out of any compromise.  As long as no one is inflexible there's still time to work out a plan that will correct the market (ugh) and protect us proles.

If the Dems are truly playing politics they need to be strung up by their wee little testes.  Jesus fucks Mary, if this crisis is as dire as we've been told how could they?

Considering their political instincts to date have led to the lowest approval rating in Congress' history this should Wile E. Coyote in their faces.

35

What I'm trying to say is that, even if there is no deal, the power will still be on on Monday, the birds will still be singing, and whatever recessions crop up will still be survivable. It is not 1928 any more.

36 John McCain's Fault = He tried to torpedo our pork.

37 Can we please vote all 435 Congress people out of office in 40 days?  Let's just throw all the lying bums out and start over.  All 33 Senators up for reelection also.  Vote McCain/Palin in and start over.   These ass clowns should all be shot.  All of them....the nation is in crisis and they want to play politics?   fuck them all.

38 How do these fuckers sleep at night?

On a pile of our money.

39 well maybe shot was too strong a word but they all need to be removed at the voting box.

40 I have to say that this election and financial crisis is the most fascinating thing to watch.  You can't make this up.  No one would believe it possible.  If you have children old enough to be given an allowance, they need to get in on this.  Wow!!

41

"Can we be a little more grown up and a little less strutting he-man individualist Action Hero fantasy here?"

 

Aw, you're no fun at all! You'll be teling us to put some pants on next.

 

 

42 Alex, your views are wanted on the Anne Hathwaway thread.

43 It's almost like it was.........scripted......

44

"House Republicans are sticking to their free market fantasies and inviting calamity"

 

Screw McAmnesty, what this country needs is more House Republicans.

 

 

45

This is one of those historical turning points.  I mean, come on, Ace has a clock with Anne Hathaway anal on it, or something.

I am sure that will merit at least a footnote in "The Great Financial Discombobulation of Ought Eight."

46

If the market tanks a thousand points everyone will get religion- if no bank is willing to lend to anyone it will get done.

But rest assured the Democrats will gladly destroy the economy if they can inherit the presidency and begin Operation Socialism.

McCain needs to crush the Democrats over larding this up with freebies for their slaves. He couldn't make a better debate point.

47 "The Feds just seized WaMu. The bozos in DC--and I mean all of them--better get their shit together and get it together fast. Because if they don't it's not going to matter who wins this election."

Sukietawdry, I agree with your sentiment but the Feds didn't seize WaMu, they helped broker an acquisition by J.P. Morgan.

Like JackStraw has been saying, tick tick tick.

48 The problem with all of this drama for the pols is that the situation, which they know better than us, is probably too bad for them to face without doing something. 

49

Posted by: Jon Sandor at September 25, 2008 07:55 PM (Z1I7I)

 

It shall have far fewer soon enough.

50 Heh.  There's just not enough fear out there for the politicians to act.  The market will be down about 300-400 tomorrow if there is no change overnight.  That'll motivate a few people to change their mind on this.

51

I don't think the dem's going partisan right now is going to play well at work Friday.

I just think that is a mistake.  Has Obama himself laid any blame on McCain?

52 Hey, the Dem's have the majority.  Why do they need Republicans?  Whatsamadda, dem kiddies?  No balls?

53 So two days ago, Harry Reid said no deal could happen without McCain's involvement. So yesterday McCain, putting the country first and his campaign second, rearranged his schedule postponed the debate, and rushed off to Washington. So today, Chris Dodd, who has taken money and cheap mortgages from Countrywide, a failed mortgage lender, pronounces McCain's appearance "destructive." I think its possible, once again, that Democrats may lose both houses in five weeks.

54 McCain foolishly framed this as desperately needing his presence.

He alone involved himself in this overt manner.

And John McCain probably did so, to stop his well earned free fall in the polls.

All because he panicked all last week, offering mindless populism, bitter anger, and declared he would have sought the head of the SEC (with the failed Cuomo as an alternative).

But bizarrely, even with the so-called rush to get to Washington, McCain took the time to address the shady Clinton 'Initiative' ?

Guess it wasn't too much of a crisis, if you stop to offer mindless Clinton placation for awhile.

John McCain is a disaster.

55

JP Morgan just bought all of Washington Mutual's deposits, assets and branches.

This is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.  The weak go out of business and the strong step in and take over their customers.

The WaMu shareholders and bondholders lose everything.  That's life.

We need to just let the process play out.  Stocks will drop, jobs will be lost, people will adapt and businesses will fail/grow, depending on their boardroom smarts.

Sometimes capitalism isn't pretty, but we live in an imperfect world.

Liberals think nobody should ever get a skinned knee.  Conservatives know skinned knees happen, and when they heal the body is stronger.

We are not headed towards a depression and this bailout will not save us.  All it does is line a few pockets, tank the dollar, increase inflation and weigh down the load on our children/grandchildren.

We will see a severe recession, but we have to pay for our sins.  Hopefully, the people outside of Washington will get reform candidates to vote for and Congress will get flushed.

I am thankful the $25 billion we just gave to the auto industry is a loan that must be repaid.  This is the least destructive form of govt intervention.

However, govt should never buy private industry assets.  That is not what this country is about.  We are a capitalist democracy.  We are the greatest country in the history of the world because we enforce the concept of moral hazard.  It spurs the businessman to work harder, because he knows his ass (stock value, assets, credit rating) are on the line.  If he fails, his children suffer.

That's America.

56 The Feds just seized WaMu.

Does that mean I need to withdraw all my money from my local WaMu branch and keep it in my mattress?

57

Hey Dodd, you're going to take it up the ass and like, you hear boy?

You WILL pass my bill, or take the blame for the failure of the rescue.  Get over it dickhead, we've played you fools for what you are, idiots.

Just the facts, Chris.

John McCain

58 I have a modest proposal for saving the economy. I suggest we require Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer and Barney Frank to turn tricks to earn the money to pay for the bailout. At least one of the three will enjoy it.

59

In sports, life, politics, war, whatever, you want to be the actor, not the reactor. Flyboy seems to be one step ahead of BHO and the dems on a regular basis.

Sounds like Presidential material to me.

60 See Update, it's rich.

61 >>I have a modest proposal for saving the economy. I suggest we require Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer and Barney Frank to turn tricks to earn the money to pay for the bailout. At least one of the three will enjoy it.

That's like Br'er Rabbit, screaming, "Please don't throw me in the brier patch!"
Not really a punishment.

62 Not so. The history shows us that these people who were bailed out will be back in debt again very soon.

Which just means they'll need another bailout soon. Was that supposed to make me feel better?

63 I do not believe the hype... I think that the Republicans are trying to make them create a clean bill, and standing firm. The Dems better hope that McCain doesn't make any statements because if he is forced to do so, he will start revealing the objectionable add ons to that bill and start naming names. If he's smart, he'll lay out the timeline of this thing and name the people who are responsible.

I read this morning on Redstate that Frank is adding things to this bill and acting like it's Hannukuh presents.

This episode is a make or break for McCain - he has to prove that he will not tolerate earmarks - he will not be railroaded into passing legislation bad for America. If he was not willing to lose a war to win an election, he is not about to snooze on this bill to win this election.

Obama's press statement was nothing more than the pig squealing as it's being removed from the trough.

64

I wonder what the world markets are doing right now?

If the dem's push to hard with the partisan attack on McCain instead of doing something, Obama is going to suffer.

Doubt Obama can control his allies though, the hate is stupid-strong in a lot of them.

Off to look at markets!

65 During these tough times would you rather have leaders that say things like this:   “They will take the phrase ‘under God’ away from me when my cold, dead lips can no longer utter those words”   or leaders that say things like this:   "Call me if you need me"   just asking questions here....

66

God how this blog has fallen. I can't believe you fucking pussies are whining because Harry "Fucking" Reid is out-classing your boy.

I mean, you have to be some kind of a moron for Harry Reid to get one over on you.

McCain ready to lead? Not if this episode of checkers is any indication.

It's no wonder he got caught in Viet Nam with the head for strategy he has.

67 ArandomPerson,

Asian futures are up modestly now.  Us futures are poised for a bad open in the morning.

Anachronda,

Sorry, it wasn't meant to make you feel bad.

68

 wonder what the world markets are doing right now?

 

Japan is just opening up as we type.

69

 pollwatcher

meanwhile back in the miami bunker Obama is going uh,hmm,uh,,hmm

70 "It's no wonder he got caught in Viet Nam with the head for strategy he has."

Hey, pollwatcher, fuck you.

71 Ace is quite wrong. I just got off the phone with Rep. Ryan's office. The writing is nearly complete on the Cantor-Hensarling-Ryan bill.

We shall wait and see what happens, cause a good surprise is gonna happen tonight.

72 Someone needs to take Bohner by the collar and shut him up now. He and his coalition are in way over their heads, and they are picking the wrong goddamn time to grandstand. The man is an utter fool if he thinks nixing this deal is going to bring anything but misery for everyone. Jesus, McCain's risking his candidacy to broker a deal -- he thinks the alternative is that serious -- and his colleagues in the House are giving snarky speeches and exchanging high-fives about their principles and bravery. When the deal falls apart McCain will be the one who looks like a failure - not them. Don't they realize that they're playing right into the Democrats' hands? Are they really that stupid, or that blinded by their own righteous indignation? When the economy falters (and I suspect it will falter very, very badly) the Republicans will not be remembered as the party that stood up bravely for free market principles. They'll be remembered as the nitwits who could have stopped a disaster with a workable but imperfect plan, but instead chose to demagogue on the House floor. And by the time President Obama begins his second term he and his allies will have rebuilt the economy into a socialist wet-dream.

73 Zettai Zettai

Details

74

Why do democrats need the republicans?  Why can't they put together their own legislation, they control the house and senate.  The dems should show some cojones, put a package together, pass it in the house and dare the republicans to filibuster.

The reality is the dems are scared crapless.

They are in a lose/lose situation.  If they do nothing they will be blamed for being a do nothing congress in a financial crisis.

If they go with the big bailout the republicans will vote against it and tag them for bailing out wall street.

Nice.

75 Pollwatcher.
Yeah, escaping from a shallow pond would have been easy for you. Even with half of the population standing there waiting for you.

76

I'm bringing the marshmallows who's bringing the gram crackers to this fire.

and can we find out what auto loans are being bailed out.......since as a responsible homeowner i drive a 10 year old car so i can still put money away for the future......but if I'm going to be paying for this bailout i want something out of the deal....like a brand new truck. 

77 I'll bet a bottle of Val-U-Rite that something close to the following will appear on DKos or DU within the next three days:

"Don't you see?  The Rethuglicans want the bailout measure to fail.  That way, more young people will be impoverished and thus forced to join the army.  That way there will be a whole new group of cannon fodder for another Bushilter McHalliburtonKKKo war of aggression!  Wake up, sheeple!"

78 You people who are Shitting the Bed, Take your Paxil & or Effexor the DEAL WILL GET DONE, Right now you have people using alll the Leverage they have & mega Posturing

79

Hayao:  so they are. 

As for political reaction; I don't see how the dem's claiming that the Rep's (McCain!) sank the deal is going to fly with my co-workers. 

They know that the Dem's have the house (and I will helpfully point out that they have so much control they just were found guilty of illegally rigging a vote in their favor) so that they could pass anything they want.  They will blame dems even more so if they go hyper-partisan.

Oh work will be interesting Friday.

80

God how this blog has fallen. I can't believe you fucking pussies are whining because Harry "Fucking" Reid is out-classing your boy.

I mean, you have to be some kind of a moron for Harry Reid to get one over on you.

McCain ready to lead? Not if this episode of checkers is any indication.

It's no wonder he got caught in Viet Nam with the head for strategy he has.

REALLY & how bad is Kos & DUmmies that you're over here????Peckerhead BUTT PIRATE PILLOWBITING SOCIALIST USEFUL IDIOT FOOL !!!!!!!!

81 I suspect that there will be no deal until the weekend.

82

Best explanation of this whole thing I have seen so far is that the Dems are "shorting" the US economy to win the Presidency.  When you are shorting a stock, you want it to tank, folks.

Revolution?  No, but... I so want to see a media giant go down, and go down as hard as some of the folks they have helped to take down while flying their false flag.  Damn them.

"A riot is an ugly ting, und I tink itz chust about time ve had us vun!!

83 Could we get a ban hammer on pollwatcher here please?

Say what you want about the Paulson plan, but its just pure Moby to say how AoS was once cool and then take a shot at McCain for getting captured in Vietnam.

84 The basics of the C-H-R bill are the same ones as stated by KJL over at NRO:

Economic Rescue Principles

Common Sense Plan to Have Wall Street Fund the Recovery, Not Taxpayers

* Rather than providing taxpayer funded purchases of frozen mortgage assets, we should adopt a mortgage insurance approach to solve the problem.

* Currently the federal government insures approximately half of all mortgage backed securities. (MBS) We can insure the rest of current outstanding MBS; however, rather than taxpayers funding insurance, the holders of these assets should pay for it. Treasury Department can design a system to charge premiums to the holders of MBS to fully finance this insurance.

Have Private Capital Injection to the Financial Markets, Not Tax Dollars

* Instead of injecting taxpayer capital into the market to produce liquidity, private capital can be drawn into the market by removing regulatory and tax barriers that are currently blocking private capital formation. Too much private capital is sitting on the sidelines during this crisis.

* Temporary tax relief provisions can help companies free up capital to maintain operations, create jobs, and lend to one another. In addition, we should allow for a temporary suspension of dividend payments by financial institutions and other regulatory measures to address the problems surrounding private capital liquidity.

Immediate Transparency, Oversight, and Market Reform

* Increase Transparency. Require participating firms to disclose to Treasury the value of their mortgage assets on their books, the value of any private bids within the last year for such assets, and their last audit report.

* Limit Federal Exposure for High Risk Loans: Mandate that the GSEs no longer securitize any unsound mortgages.

* Call on the SEC to audit reports of failed companies to ensure that the financial standing of these troubled companies was accurately portrayed.

* Wall Street Executives should not benefit from taxpayer funding.

* Call on the SEC to review the performance of the Credit Rating Agencies and their ability to accurately reflect the risks of these failed investment securities.

* Create a blue ribbon panel with representatives of Treasury, SEC, and the Fed to make recommendations to Congress for reforms of the financial sector by January 1, 2009.
--------

Those will be the base items put forth in the bill when it is finished. I cannot give a time frame, as Rep. Ryan's office didn't give information about the timeframe, except that the bill would be ready to go very soon.

85 As usual, Pelosi brought the wrong helmet. Doesn't she understand which game she's playing?

86 ArandomPerson,

I thought this was a win/win for McCain when he said he would go to DC.  Brilliant move and I think the polls will reflect that.  Have fun at work tomorrow.

87

 Bryan C at September

 

I disagree.  If the reps stand up for the taxpayers since no one else seems to care for the middle class anymore they will sweep the elections.  30 years of free markets experiecce maens the American people are not yet willing to go into socialism.  The paulson plan was not great but good enough to handle the problem....the new dem-paulson plan is just bad.  I will not hand over the entire home industry to Frank and Dodd.  

 

 

88 Zettai Zettai,

Much appreciated.

89 Saving the taxpayers a $700B bill won't help if the market shits. And it will. And the Republicans will catch every single bit of blame for it.

90 There is no way in hell that McCain will not come out looking strong here.  Congress is hated way more than McCain is by any appreciable number of people.  Barney Frank?  Run that video a few more times.  What a disgraceful person.

91 Don't be thanking me, Hayao. I'm just a messenger.

I do, however, owe Ace-man an apology. I misread his statements, and called him wrong when he was just stating that the bill has not been published yet. It hasn't. It's still in progress, though the first draft is nearly finished.

92 Last time I listen to Goldfarb. He said it wasn't sunk. I did here the McCain is doing nothing/McCain is offering his own plan spin.

Frank and Dodd. Total scum.

93 Zettai Zettai

Err, really, because all they've been working on are principles not a bill. There's a difference, so Ace's comment is still operative.

The Corner.

Here is what Cantor, Hensarling, Ryan are working on:

Economic Rescue Principles
http://tinyurl.com/3o5dsx

94

Allah points to Baseball crank:

Gregory: "Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"

Holmes: "To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."

Gregory: "The dog did nothing in the night-time."

Holmes: "That was the curious incident."

In politics, actions speak louder than words, and inaction sometimes speaks even louder. With John McCain leaving the campaign trail to go to Washington to join the negotiations over the Paulson bailout bill, there's a fair debate about exactly how important his presence there is, as I will discuss below. But judging by the actions of everyone involved, there's no doubt that even his own Democratic colleagues recognize that Barack Obama is completely irrelevant to the process.

95 >>There is no way in hell that McCain will not come out looking strong here.  Congress is hated way more than McCain is by any appreciable number of people.  Barney Frank?  Run that video a few more times.  What a disgraceful person.

Yep.  The party in power has to make the move.  I  If they try to tank the economy to win the election, the resulting devastation in the market will cost many of them their seats. 

96 adamthemad:

Call Rep. Ryan's office and tell them what you told me. They'll tell you what I've been saying: They're currently WRITING this thing out. And I already cleared up what I said about Ace.

Geez, do I have to whack you 10 times with a bamboo cane or something?

97

Z, my little scandi joo, good work.  I heard earlier the house gop has schedule a press conference tonight!

Any word on that?

98

Of course, if we had a President that wasn't a complete fucking pussy, he would be on with another fucking media event and ram this bullshit up Barney's, Chris's, and Obama's, aw christ, the Dems asses. Then break it off. But then I am a dreamer at heart.

 

99 Dear Lord, I do not look forward to tomorrow morning's WSJ. Luckily, I don't need to cash out any of my assets soon.

100 Kemper:

No clue. I'd have to call Michele Bachmann's office for that. And right now, the aides are at a late dinner (more than likely pizza).

101 Aren't we heading towards the same huge financial crisis with Social Security?

102 Zettai,

No just take your bamboo cane and shove it up your Ann Hathaway and we'll call it even.

103 I took your pawn!  Holy Jesus you are in the shitter now.  You walked right into it and I took your pawn.  PAWNED, cocksucker! You've only got SEVEN left now!!   I TOOK YOUR FUCKING PAWN!

104 Yep Soc Security is in the same line of fire

105

But Barack Obama wants to be completely irrelevant to the process, and his Democrat supporters in Congress want to protect him.  The best we can expect out of this is less shit in the sandwich, but we'll still have to take big bites.  The odds of a miracle outcome that reassures the world markets and most especially the US markets and at the same time doesn't screw the taxpayers (i.e. us) is exceedingly slim, even if McCain had the most ingenious plan of all time, the Congress, all 535 of them will have to put their 2 cents in and it will become less perfect. 

The worst outcome is no deal at all and the markets tank and we go into a Depression.  Either way, McCain gets pinned with serving us the shit sandwich, he won't get any credit for making it just a doubledecker instead of a full Dagwood. 

 

106 The DOW futures are - 167 now.  It won't be pretty tomorrow without some news.

107 unseen, in ordinary times I'd probably agree. Right now -- and I seldom take this tone -- you do not know what you are talking about. When your bank collapses, like WaMu just did, you will not think kindly of someone who could have prevented it. When the business you work for can't make payroll because their investments have been wiped out then you may not qualify as middle class for much longer. If you don't believe the economic forecasts then think of it in purely political terms: The Democrats have McCain in their sights - the man who currently represents the Republican party to this country - and Bohner's handing them ammunition. Thanks a lot. I think there probably will be a deal, BTW. The problem is that now it'll probably look like the Democrats rode in to save the day from the Republicans. Maybe Obama himself will get the credit. We all know that's a lie, but history is written by the winners.

108

And the House Republicans have the right instincts.  Let Pelosi run her House. She has the votes to do whatever she wants, she doesn't need them. Whatever is decided upon doesn't need a single Republican vote.  

Boehner and Cantor and those guys know the game being played (and know its a game, despite all the Chuckie Schumer smarmy "American people expect us to work together" bullshit that he OBVIOUSLY doesn't mean. 

House Republicans not voting for this will NOT kill the bill.  If a deal comes together and passes and works then they will have to sort that out later. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

109

You want some shit, if we get a melt down, and Barry gets elected, that is going to be some shit.   The markets will go South so fast it will make your head swim.

Panama here I come.

110

Bryan C at September

 

I'm all for a bailout.  there are other ways to do it without loading it with pork and socialism.   the dems are losing this fight.  McCain will come out the winner because he is ready to compromise.  The dems aren't.  Simple really.  No compromise no deal.  Yet one side is ready to compromise and one side isn't.  the side that will not compromise on this deal is the loser.

111 >>The problem is that now it'll probably look like the Democrats rode in to save the day from the Republicans

I disagree.  The American people will accept this deal, albeit, begrudgingly.  McCain will come out looking like he protected the taxpayer but finally did what needed to be done.  The Dems are in power and they will add all kinds of crap to the bill...or try to.  In the end, they will suffer the most from this.

112 Any deal without show trials and prison terms seems thin.

113

The situation appears to be extremely fluid.  They keep saying "The WH meeting went very badly".

Paulson is meeting tonight w/Senators.  Trying to salvage the deal?

It could go either way.  My guess is the market won't get really thrilled even if it passes.  There appear to be a lot of restrictions on the money.  Which sort of dilutes the immediate effect.

114

I gather that the fire alarm is the TED spread.  If it goes over ~3.5, we're all dead.  Do I have that part right? http://tinyurl.com/4ywka6

115 Ace, the Dems need to be opposed strongly, no matter how they try to spin it.

They'll look to get cheats out of this no matter how much harm is done. Look at this attempt to hand over $25 Billion to the auto industry. Just a coincidence that this would be most felt and cheered in two states Obama desperately needs on his side. Would this be the biggest illegal campaign contribution in US history?

116

The problem is that McCain looking like a leader in this case is the whole downfall.  The market won't turnaround overnight, we won't be where we were easy credit refiance the house and buy a BMW, we'll get MAYBE heads still above water and some new restrictions and a big bill for the taxpayers (all they will hear is the $700B not however that might possibly be mitigated by future income/sales). 

Obama and other Democrats (who will vote for it) will say this is what his leadership stands for, not just more of Bush but much worse judgement. 

Cocksuckers. 

But remember, the Great Depression established them as the dominant party in for almost half a century, it has to be tempting. 

 

 

117 Some sort of bail-out will take place. It must. Soon--very soon--the magnitude of this disaster will make itself felt beyond Washington and Wall Street, and it will cease to be headline abstraction and election distraction and become very real and very immediate to ordinary families everywhere. No doubt Obama will present himself as the second coming of FDR--as another poster pointed out--and no doubt McCain will present himself as the calm voice of command over the roar of the storm. Whatever. But when the public realizes words like 'ruin' and 'economic catastrophe' and 'another great depression' aren't just journalistic hyperbole--when the wave hits and washes away life savings and jobs--then there will be hell to pay for those politicians who stood by and did nothing, whatever their reasons. For those Republican politicians playing free-market purists and balking at the bail-out as a matter of principle? Good luck with that. Remember Hoover? I'll hold your place in the unemployment line. And those Democrats hoping to exploit this mess for political gain? News: Barack Obama is not Franklin Roosevelt, socialism does not--and cannot--work, and the people are not as stupid as you think they are.

118 Newt is on H&C....

What's going on is great! I've never been prouder to be a Republican!

119

crap. brilliant tactical move by the dems.

when the hell did they get smart?

of COURSE the dems control the congress currently... but the Rs have owned it for the 10 or so prev years, with R presidents...

the spin on this will just be too strong. we're doomed. and BHO will get the credit for the eventual solution, because, well, you all know why.

mccain took a suckerbet here and a big one. (i didn't see it coming either.)

unless we see an unprecedented pushback/media blitz from the home team on this, it's game over.

 

120 NEWTS PLAN RULES and he just did an incredible, clear, concise and detailed job explaining it on hannity and colmes. NEWT FOR PRES!

121 I guess another number we're supposed to shit ourselves over is 3 mo LIBOR.  Current 3.77 is supposed to be scary, but hell, it was over 5 a year ago.  http://tinyurl.com/3f8w96

122 Even though I'm against the bailout, I'm somewhat aghast at how dysfunctional this Congress is. Have we ever had a worse Congress? I can't think of one -- even during the pre-Civil War years. The 110th Congress is setting the bar for incompetence. Their theme song ought to be "Yakety Sax".

123 People like jdub are the idiots who I cannot wait to shoot in the face when they come to my place trying to look for shelter.

Everything is gonna be alright, because the alternative plan is coming together. So, jdub, sit your ass down, shut the hell up, or go to Barney Frank and take it up the ass.

Damn, how many people do I have to slap around to get the point across?

124 hey you sky-is-falling babies:

125 There is no problem with credit for actual businesses, or so says someone with quite a bit more economic acumen than yourselves:

http://tinyurl.com/4xy92p

You're so eager for the spanking you just can't wait to get from Daddy Hank to pay attention to the real world. Conservative, my bleeding ass. Anyone who really wanted to sell his CDO would have done so by now, just by dropping the asking price, if the idiots running Treasury and the Fed hadn't been signaling this bailout BS for a year.

126

If this were a movie, Barney Frank would be the villain, John McCain the hero, and Barack Obama would be Student #4.

….And Harry Reid is the whiney little sister nobody pays attention to.

127 117 - Tell us why you believe: "Remember Hoover? I'll hold your place in the unemployment line."  What convinced you that that will happen, and won't happen with a bailout?  Why the panic?

128 Little Dickie Morris was just on Hannity & Clones & said it was a glorious Stant by McCain & paraphrasing Morris the Reps. Have Dems by the NUTS

129

Ace, if you're worried about commenters making your blog seem less "serious" than you would like, you might want to re-think the wisdom of posting that Hathaway-anal thing tonight, of all nights.

"Silly fantasies are best kept private.  They're a bit embarrassing when expressed in public."

Amen, bro.

 

130 Ace... I thought I heard Jamie Dupree talking about proposed legislation photocopies available today on the Neal Boortz show... maybe he was talking about different legislation, but they wouldn't be working on anything else today would they? he was bitching about how it wasn't searchable... the pdf and how the earmarks were not listed out corectly...

131 you might want to re-think the wisdom of posting that Hathaway-anal thing tonight

I disagree. Strongly. That's real news! Not like this "economy is going into the toilet" fluff. America was built on and retains its strength through knowing which hot (female) Hollywood celebrity takes it up the pooper.

132 Ace, if you're worried about commenters making your blog seem less "serious" than you would like, you might want to re-think the wisdom of posting that Hathaway-anal thing tonight, of all nights.

Let ace be ace!

133 anyone else losing comments?

134

First of all - assume the Democrats are dealing in bad faith.  Always. crisis or no crisis, they are going to fuck you so plan on it. 

Second of all, McCain has kicked conservatives in the nuts enough that I simply don't have faith that he's going inside their OODA loop - they read his sign, they knew he'd be Country First and said, hey, your country needs you, we need you (hehehe). 

 

135

Coulter just said on H & C that if McCain doesn't show for tomorrow night's debate, maybe Obama can debate Biden.

Pure gold!

136 DEMOCRATS TANKING DEAL IN ORDER TO PIN FAILURE ON JOHN McCAINSo? NO ONE WANTS THIS BAILOUT. McCain will be a HERO if he is "blamed" for this going down. And he'll get blamed for bailing out Wall Street if he supports it.

We're going to lose even if the economy doesn't get any worse. It's bad enough, and we're getting blamed for it. Just not making things worse isn't going to help.

There is NO upside to McCain supporting this. None.

137

When I saw the claim that Jamie Dupree was talking about bailout legislation photocopies, I thought wtf!  You mean Spitzer's ho is going all political on us!!??.

My bad.  But with Hershey Highway Hathaway thrown into the mix tonight, you can understand my confusion.

138 "Ace, if you're worried about commenters making your blog seem less "serious" than you would like, you might want to re-think the wisdom of posting that Hathaway-anal thing tonight, of all nights."

Why?

We've been at war for six and a half years.  Does seriousness require no levity?

139 two questions:

1.  Everytime Newt shows up on H&C, Alan looks like he's all asshurt when Newt "enlightens him" on life?  Is the the GOP equivalent of a swift kick in the nutsack for Libs/Donks?

2.  Dick Morris gloats alot on the air...does he see or know something that will be the head shot for Barry O's campaign?

140 ????????????? why is anyone surprised that idiots are acting like...IDIOTS? seriously. believing that the Democrats who are ALWAYS more concerned with sabotage over substance, would NOW do the right thing, in the best interest of this country ( while crippling our Nation with their completely irresponsible and WHACK drilling ban, stirring up intense and dangerous race wars, while encouraging a dangerously bias and integrity challenged media to manipulate their incompetence)..... Is like believing John McCain, who's ENTIRE LIFE has been honorable, exemplified in the incredibly brave SERVICE OF HIS COUNTRY, and who's actual RECORD is a testament to the depth of his bipartisan accomplishments... would imprudently head back to Washington, not to do his JOB, but rather as a "stunt" just silly It just goes against EVERY shred of logic and proof.... so in the words of a great American Hero, "don't be distracted by the ground noise and he static" peace

141 re:138
What's with the sudden concern about ace's blog. Why is it that a blog that became famous for posts about Dick Cheney's cock, and how Ace was gonna crowd in on Wonkettes assfucking shennanigans suddenly has to be respectable? Dude, Ace is dancin' with the one what brung him. It's what this place is all about.

142 Looks like Barny "Buttfuck" and "Countrywide" Dodd are looking at McCain as a scapegoat for today's events - they know that their asses are in the spotlight for their role in this shit.  McCain should drive this home after this mess is taken care of - and point out O's roll in helping out...maybe it could help get a few GOP seats...

Question - What is Barry O the Media Ho doing to get this rolling...probably checking on his buddy Blag and looking at Arugula futures.

143 Freddie Dodd and Fannie Frank should have their dicks cut off and shoved in their mouths......politically speaking of course.

144

How about Obama shows up tomorrow night to debate himself using a teleprompter, and... Sarah Palin walks into the building and right onto the stage?

And then, after knocking the teleprompter to the floor, over the next hour proceeds to tear him a new one?

Election.  Ovah.

145 135

Coulter just said on H & C that if McCain doesn't show for tomorrow night's debate, maybe Obama can debate Biden.

Pure gold!

Posted by: fulldroolcup at September 25, 2008 09:44 PM (fH1BE)

So was Coulter defending McCain?  WHAAATTTTTTT?

to quote insty - Cats and Dogs living together.....

146 **************************************************** good... Im hppy to have Coulter on board, and wise-ass as ever...we need everyone to stand up, and all the help we can get, to win this abomination of an election. in the words of Joe Biden: "I would think you're all absolutely brain-dead if you didn't help. And I mean it."

147 gp: No panic here, just an assessment of consequences. No one knows if Herbert Hoover's policies would've ended the Depression for the very straightforward reason that he wasn't re-elected. He--like many others--firmly believed the market would sort itself out after the panic subsided and and the faith--for lack of a better word--driving the markets would gradually reassert itself and all would be well. Which are, it seems to me, the same beliefs motivating those Republican legislators most staunchly resisting even the notion of a bail-out now. Hoover lost to FDR because he was perceived to be doing nothing while the country suffered. And while FDR's New Deal polciies arguably accomplished little--and may even have deepened and lengthened the Depression--he at least understood basic human psychology and fundamental political realities.

148 ****************************************************McCain has been so incredibly strategic in his ability to force his opponent into a corner, and by smart thinking on his feet with his unexpected yet successful head fakes, you would think he had some actual real EXPERIENCE defeating the enemy The O(NO!) party has so consistently been caught flat footed and confused , "catch up" is their only option. HELL YEH I want a president that can do that!!!

149

I'm a bit late getting to this, but.... does anyone else, um question the timing of this whole mess? Given that international threat tends to favor republican candidates, and economic trouble favors the dems. If they can insinuate that the Russian invasion of Georgia (or the outbreak of conflict in Obamaspeak) was orchestrated by the Bush administration, why not the inverse? Aren't the primary beneficiaries of this bailout demonstrably democrat supporters and befeciaries thereof?

RH

150

#145:  Actually, Coulter has grudgingly supported McC after the Palin pick. 

To Ace:  Don't want no problems.  Grovel, grovel, cringe, cringe.  Gollem, after all, is my middle name: Percy Gollem Pantywaist.   I would address you as Massa, but we all know how sensitive you are to comments interfering with your  business model   important work. 

I should have known that the proper thing to do is to hoist up a smile over anal intercourse, the better to ride out (lame pun!) the financial apocalypse.  What a FOOL I am to think such "levity" distracts from the seriousness of the situation tonight.

What an IDIOT I am not to understand that the prospect of perpetual financial servitude is not one of those "times" requiring revolution, let alone the slitting of throats.

In the future I will wait for the signal from you before thinking, even for a nanosecond, along the lines of the sentiment posted on your own masthead, which speaks incidentially of the temptation of  "every normal man".   I guess it's you who gets to decide what's normal.

But hey!  As I write,  Hathaway's got 230 posts, this thread only 148!  Perversity  "Levity" WINS!!!

Mission Accomplished, Ace!!

 

 

 

151 Shit, earlier Graham was on FNC and said something like 20% was going to go to ACORN housing.....WTF?  The son of a bitchen corrupt organization and they want monies to go to it? BO must be proud. They damn well better not keep that in there.

152 Can you believe that jackass Chris Dodd?  Here's the goof who profited the most from donations from FM, and now he's blaming McCain for interfering in the deal to save his arse?  What about Barney Frank?  The guy who blocked over and over legislation that would have at least partially prevented this mess...Ace is right, the man is a ****sucker.

These Dems are shameless.

153

S&P Futures -19

Don't which side this coin is going to land on (seems like a tossup right now), however I did come away with this impression from watchind the news footage of the WH meeting from this afternoon:

 

BHO looked way out of his league.  Like a 5 yr old who walked in on a swinger session.

154 The Depression was a depression instead of just an overdue correction because of how the government responded to it. Our present problem is easily traced to government meddling in the marketplace. And so we want - government meddling? How about asking the feds to stop "helping" us until we can afford it again? We should be proposing approaches that back the government out of this (the cap gains tax cut and removing the mark to market rule as applied to securities would be good starts).

I'm not really sold on the idea that freedom is only good for solving little problems and that only a bloated federal government can save us from the big ones. I'm still trying to get my head around all of the ripple effects in this and my position is still flexible, but I'm not buying scary invocations of depression and socialism. Socialism causes depressions, not the other way around. It's politicians and the economically illiterate who cause socialism.

The Dems don't need the minority if they want to do this. They just want us for political cover as they bring more of the camel into the tent. That's a bad sign. Since this is the same camel I've been trying to shoo out, I'd like to hear some more proposals before I sign on.

155 Leave it to the demacraps to lay the blame for their own bungling on someome else SCREW THE DEMACRATS SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK

156

No 149....Hear hear!  Follow. The. Money.  Acorn being "promised" a peice of the profits? WTF? Acorn is an organization run by un-elected "community activists".  Their activities is one of the reasons we're in this mess. 

157 “Profanity is the last refuge of the linguistically challenged and the mentally handicapped…” H&K's ...Ace! Olde soldier sends...!