April 28, 2006
Flight 93 Review, From A Commenter
— Ace Pupster sent this review of the movie.
— Ace Pupster sent this review of the movie.
It sounds grim, but absolutely necessary to see. If you think you can steel yourself for the experience, which some think they can't.
I'm going to see it this weekend myself, maybe today. I have the same reservations, though, that many readers express. A harrowing movie about the Holocaust, directed in a naturalistic, matter-of-fact style, may be a tremendous work of art and an unflinching look at evil, but it's not as if such a film exactly beckons a viewer to come and witness the horror.
Still, I'll see it... I just have to figure out when and where, and hope to God that no jerkoff Boston liberal moonbats are there to make announcements like "Bush knew, Osama slew."
I just got back from United 93. I went alone, following my plan to the letter.
My plan was to have 2 drinks before the showing as a bracer for what was to come. I had 4. (Crown Royal if it matters.)I knew what was coming. I know how the movie ends. It's not enough.
45 minutes in, after everyone on screen knows it's a high jack, my jaw clenched.
50 minutes in, jaw still clenched, I start to mutter "MFer's, those MF'ers" under my breath.
60 minutes in, I start to tear up, along with the clenched jaw and MFer's under my breath.
70 minutes to the end the movie, I am sobbing. Not tearing up...sobbing. Not uncontrollably, just clenched jaw, MFing, sobbing.
You need to be ready for this movie. You need to see this movie.
Posted by: Ace at
06:24 PM
| Comments (173)
Post contains 277 words, total size 2 kb.
1
I'm going now and I have to drive or I'd take the advice about the Crown Royal.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 28, 2006 06:35 PM (kJfu0)
2
My wife and I are going to see the movie this weekend. I think I'll follow the unnamed commenter's advice and have a few beforehand - probably quite a few after. I know it won't be comfortable, but I think most Americans need to be shaken out of their complacency a little bit. Too many people have forgotten that we are at war and why we are at war.
Posted by: Sven at April 28, 2006 06:37 PM (6m5vg)
3
Yeah I saw the movie today. I had a similar reaction as the commenter as well.
Unfortunatly at the showing I watched there was an idiot in the audience. Halfway thru the film he said very loudly (apparently to someone behind him) "Bush and Cheney knew..." Then quieted down...till the end of the movie.
At the end he stood up and tried to babble to everyone about how German intelligence told Bush months before hand blah blah blah.
I, and several members of the audience very loudly told him to shut the hell up. When we started telling him that he got pissed and stormed out.
What an ass, even if I had any sympathy for his delusions, I still didn't come to the theater to hear it. I came for a movie going experience, not an asshole experience.
Unfortunatly at the showing I watched there was an idiot in the audience. Halfway thru the film he said very loudly (apparently to someone behind him) "Bush and Cheney knew..." Then quieted down...till the end of the movie.
At the end he stood up and tried to babble to everyone about how German intelligence told Bush months before hand blah blah blah.
I, and several members of the audience very loudly told him to shut the hell up. When we started telling him that he got pissed and stormed out.
What an ass, even if I had any sympathy for his delusions, I still didn't come to the theater to hear it. I came for a movie going experience, not an asshole experience.
Posted by: OPB at April 28, 2006 06:54 PM (Z4+m9)
Posted by: Allah at April 28, 2006 06:54 PM (CbBW/)
5
I'm a wuss I can't watch this kind of movie, it just tears me up too much inside. But I don't need to be reminded of anything.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2006 06:57 PM (1Vbso)
6
... which is why I will not see this movie. I do not need to be reminded of that day. I am reminded every day when I look into my children's eyes.. as I wish away the world we live in.
There are many people who post here that, quite obviously, do not have kids. No harm, no foul. However, once you have kids, you see the world differently. To look into my daughter's eyes and realize that we have failed to provide a safer world for her. That absolutely breaks my heart.
To be honest, the commercials for this movie make me feel every single emotion described above.
I want to see this movie. I really do.
I just can't.
I'm sorry, but I just can't.
There are many people who post here that, quite obviously, do not have kids. No harm, no foul. However, once you have kids, you see the world differently. To look into my daughter's eyes and realize that we have failed to provide a safer world for her. That absolutely breaks my heart.
To be honest, the commercials for this movie make me feel every single emotion described above.
I want to see this movie. I really do.
I just can't.
I'm sorry, but I just can't.
Posted by: wiserbud at April 28, 2006 06:59 PM (56ssE)
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 28, 2006 07:07 PM (ty5CP)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 28, 2006 07:13 PM (XbJeu)
9
I just returned from seeing Flight 93 thirty minutes ago.
And I'm still shaking.
Everyone should see this movie. My God it was good.
And I'm still shaking.
Everyone should see this movie. My God it was good.
Posted by: matterson at April 28, 2006 07:13 PM (JEq/F)
10
Seattle experience:
The theater was a stone's throw from SeaTac airport, which may explain why there was little in the way of trouble.
My reaction: not anywhere near as violent as described, but I was damned nervous. (Suggestion: alcohol will probably intensify one's emotional response to the film, rather than dampen it.) Partly it was the horror of the events I was witnessing. Partly it was in anticipation of the theater being packed with liberals about to stage some sort of protest. I believe the terrorists of 9/11 are evil and the passengers of 93 were heroes, but I'm uncomfortable with expressing those views in public. I also had to contain fears that I would walk outside afterwards and stumble into a CBS or ABC camera lens and make the local news, "homophobic racist bigot sees homophobic racist bigoted movie." Still, I plan to see it again. I made a promise to myself: If Hollywood EVER makes a movie where Muslim terrorists are genuinely, truly the bad guys, I will see it... five... times... in the theater. Doesn't even matter if the movie's crap. I'll support it on general principle. If conservative reviewers judge the movie tries to sympathize with the terrorists, I don't go. (Won't go see Ollie Stone's turd, for example.)
Theater reaction: solemn and silent at the end. I heard some whispering and talking, but couldn't make it out, so I won't judge on content, but the tone of some of it was rude. One commenter on the way out was talking to a friend, saying he definitely would've beat the crap out of the hijacker if in that situation. That took guts to even say out loud over here.
The theater was a stone's throw from SeaTac airport, which may explain why there was little in the way of trouble.
My reaction: not anywhere near as violent as described, but I was damned nervous. (Suggestion: alcohol will probably intensify one's emotional response to the film, rather than dampen it.) Partly it was the horror of the events I was witnessing. Partly it was in anticipation of the theater being packed with liberals about to stage some sort of protest. I believe the terrorists of 9/11 are evil and the passengers of 93 were heroes, but I'm uncomfortable with expressing those views in public. I also had to contain fears that I would walk outside afterwards and stumble into a CBS or ABC camera lens and make the local news, "homophobic racist bigot sees homophobic racist bigoted movie." Still, I plan to see it again. I made a promise to myself: If Hollywood EVER makes a movie where Muslim terrorists are genuinely, truly the bad guys, I will see it... five... times... in the theater. Doesn't even matter if the movie's crap. I'll support it on general principle. If conservative reviewers judge the movie tries to sympathize with the terrorists, I don't go. (Won't go see Ollie Stone's turd, for example.)
Theater reaction: solemn and silent at the end. I heard some whispering and talking, but couldn't make it out, so I won't judge on content, but the tone of some of it was rude. One commenter on the way out was talking to a friend, saying he definitely would've beat the crap out of the hijacker if in that situation. That took guts to even say out loud over here.
Posted by: p. thadz at April 28, 2006 07:18 PM (jc73Q)
11
I just got back.
Before, during, and after, that was the quietest theater I have ever been in. And it was full.
I am going to go ahead and say that I probably should not have seen it. I don't think the emotions I got from this movie are what most everyone else will get.
I felt pure, unadulterated RAGE. My jaws are still clenched.
I spent 2 years in the Army after high school. I got out on a forced medical discharge in 1999, and I have tried to get back in 3 times in the last 5 years. If I could have gone to Afghanistan, I would have. If I could have gone to Iraq, I would have. Maybe it's the soldier in me, but after seeing this movie it just makes me want to go into hand to hand combat.
I know why we fight. I realize after seeing this movie that I had somewhat forgotten, but I assure you I remember now.
Before, during, and after, that was the quietest theater I have ever been in. And it was full.
I am going to go ahead and say that I probably should not have seen it. I don't think the emotions I got from this movie are what most everyone else will get.
I felt pure, unadulterated RAGE. My jaws are still clenched.
I spent 2 years in the Army after high school. I got out on a forced medical discharge in 1999, and I have tried to get back in 3 times in the last 5 years. If I could have gone to Afghanistan, I would have. If I could have gone to Iraq, I would have. Maybe it's the soldier in me, but after seeing this movie it just makes me want to go into hand to hand combat.
I know why we fight. I realize after seeing this movie that I had somewhat forgotten, but I assure you I remember now.
Posted by: Crash at April 28, 2006 07:30 PM (27j7i)
12
I felt pure, unadulterated RAGE. My jaws are still clenched.
Indeed, this is why I am hesitant to go. If someone tried to heckle the movie with stupid moonbattery, I don't know if I would be able to restrain myself.
Single pictures and short videos make me enraged. What would a movie do?
Still, I'm thinking about watching it. For the first time in my life, I may go to the theater alone. I don't think this is something I want to or can share with anyone else. It's personal. Too personal.
By the way, thank you to everyone who's commented so far. I appreciate it. The more I read, the better prepared I can be. Thank you, Ace, for the thread.
Indeed, this is why I am hesitant to go. If someone tried to heckle the movie with stupid moonbattery, I don't know if I would be able to restrain myself.
Single pictures and short videos make me enraged. What would a movie do?
Still, I'm thinking about watching it. For the first time in my life, I may go to the theater alone. I don't think this is something I want to or can share with anyone else. It's personal. Too personal.
By the way, thank you to everyone who's commented so far. I appreciate it. The more I read, the better prepared I can be. Thank you, Ace, for the thread.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 28, 2006 07:41 PM (Q8UK2)
13
I just came from the movie...I had to have a couple of drinks for a bit of Dutch courage before I went it...after the movie I needed 3 more to calm down. I had almost exactly the same reactions that the commenter had. I hated having to sit though it knowing how it was going to end.
But I say to you, YOU MUST SEE THIS FILM.
I would kiss Paul Greengrass and maybe even give him some tongue in appreciation for making this film.
But I say to you, YOU MUST SEE THIS FILM.
I would kiss Paul Greengrass and maybe even give him some tongue in appreciation for making this film.
Posted by: cheshirecat at April 28, 2006 07:47 PM (+cWWK)
14
Before, during, and after, that was the quietest theater I have ever been in. And it was full.
Same here, you could hear a pin drop. The only noise was a bit of quiet murmur and some sniffling/blowing of noses. It was eerie.
If you are gonna go, go this weekend, because 10% of the proceeds are going to the memorial fund this weekend.
It's too bad that they released this too late/early for Oscar contention, but then, my view of the Oscars have considerably dimmed anyway. And, who needs the santimonious Hollywood types to get anywhere near this film.
Same here, you could hear a pin drop. The only noise was a bit of quiet murmur and some sniffling/blowing of noses. It was eerie.
If you are gonna go, go this weekend, because 10% of the proceeds are going to the memorial fund this weekend.
It's too bad that they released this too late/early for Oscar contention, but then, my view of the Oscars have considerably dimmed anyway. And, who needs the santimonious Hollywood types to get anywhere near this film.
Posted by: cheshirecat at April 28, 2006 07:52 PM (+cWWK)
15
P.S. If it matters, I felt no rage. Fear. Determination to fight back if placed in that situation. But no rage. I get angry when I type something wrong, I swear at traffic on the freeway, I curse when I hit my head on a cupboard door, but this movie did not elicit any of these feelings.
Determination, not rage. Determination not to give in if confronted with terrorism face to face. Determination to vote in November, to prevent appeasement of these monsters.
Determination, not rage. Determination not to give in if confronted with terrorism face to face. Determination to vote in November, to prevent appeasement of these monsters.
Posted by: p. thadz at April 28, 2006 08:06 PM (jc73Q)
16
I know it won't be comfortable, but I think most Americans need to be shaken out of their complacency a little bit. Too many people have forgotten that we are at war and why we are at war.Problem: most of the people who really need to be shaken up won't go see this because it's "biased."
Posted by: jhc at April 28, 2006 08:31 PM (+lA9g)
17
We're going to see it at 11:15 tomorrow. This may seem a little odd, but I had the "quiet theater" experience in 1967 when I saw "Bonnie and Clyde."
With all due respect to those who have said it, I don't understand the fear of watching it. I WANT to see it. I WANT to get pissed off again. The drive-by media has done a disservice by not showing those pics of the towers falling, and the people jumping to their deaths.
We are in a fight to the death with 7th-Century animals who will stop at nothing to kill us and impose sharia on us. We need to get PISSED OFF! Wake up, people.
With all due respect to those who have said it, I don't understand the fear of watching it. I WANT to see it. I WANT to get pissed off again. The drive-by media has done a disservice by not showing those pics of the towers falling, and the people jumping to their deaths.
We are in a fight to the death with 7th-Century animals who will stop at nothing to kill us and impose sharia on us. We need to get PISSED OFF! Wake up, people.
Posted by: CraigC at April 28, 2006 08:48 PM (chG8J)
18
I'm wondering if United 93 will turn out to be a cultural phenomenon like The Passion of the Christ was. I went to that movie because of the buzz, and because I wanted to know what everyone was talking about when the subject of the film came up. I would go see United 93 for similar reasons.
I already hate all muslims because of September 11, so how much worse can it get for me for seeing United 93.
But as another poster put it above, if some liberal asshat stands up in the theater with some 'Bush knew' shit, I might have to pound on him a littlle bit. That would be a concern.
I already hate all muslims because of September 11, so how much worse can it get for me for seeing United 93.
But as another poster put it above, if some liberal asshat stands up in the theater with some 'Bush knew' shit, I might have to pound on him a littlle bit. That would be a concern.
Posted by: Barry at April 28, 2006 08:50 PM (kKjaJ)
19
Slightly OT, but I just sent this to the White House. (Third letter in two days; I'm pissed.)
You really are clueless, aren't you? You don't have any understanding of islam and islamism. While you pursue "diplomatic solutions" with Iran, they're laughing at you as they continue their nuclear ambitions. You need to tell them publicly that you're getting ready to bomb the crap out of their facilities, and tell the Iranian people that if they don't want that to happen, they need to overthrow the government.
WAKE UP. Meanwhile, you continue to let our borders be a sieve, as poverty-stricken Mexicans pour across the border and drive down wages FOR CITIZENS, along with terrorists who will some day set off a dirty bomb or a nuclear device in one or more of our cities. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTING US, AND YOU'RE SCREWING US OVER.
WAKE UP!!!!!!
I hope you'll be happy when Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House, and Harry Reid is the Senate Majority Leader. Idiot.
You really are clueless, aren't you? You don't have any understanding of islam and islamism. While you pursue "diplomatic solutions" with Iran, they're laughing at you as they continue their nuclear ambitions. You need to tell them publicly that you're getting ready to bomb the crap out of their facilities, and tell the Iranian people that if they don't want that to happen, they need to overthrow the government.
WAKE UP. Meanwhile, you continue to let our borders be a sieve, as poverty-stricken Mexicans pour across the border and drive down wages FOR CITIZENS, along with terrorists who will some day set off a dirty bomb or a nuclear device in one or more of our cities. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTING US, AND YOU'RE SCREWING US OVER.
WAKE UP!!!!!!
I hope you'll be happy when Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House, and Harry Reid is the Senate Majority Leader. Idiot.
Posted by: CraigC at April 28, 2006 09:08 PM (chG8J)
20
I'm back. Save the booze; you'll need it for later. I'm utterly numb.
One comment because you might miss this as you stumble out of the theater. I wa amazed at the casting--no familiar faces (maybe one); everyone seemed sweaty and natural and I wondered where they found these people in the various control rooms.
I stayed through the end credits and saw
.....HIMSELF
.....HIMSELF
.....HERSELF
again and again.
Can you imagine, if you were in a tower or at NORAD that day, reliving that day to make this movie?
They relived that day. You probably should too.
One comment because you might miss this as you stumble out of the theater. I wa amazed at the casting--no familiar faces (maybe one); everyone seemed sweaty and natural and I wondered where they found these people in the various control rooms.
I stayed through the end credits and saw
.....HIMSELF
.....HIMSELF
.....HERSELF
again and again.
Can you imagine, if you were in a tower or at NORAD that day, reliving that day to make this movie?
They relived that day. You probably should too.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 28, 2006 10:34 PM (kJfu0)
21
The triumph was that the heroes on Flight 93 prevented the enemy Jihadists from achieving their goal.
They overcame their fear and fought back.
They overcame their fear and fought back.
Posted by: syn at April 29, 2006 12:23 AM (21Ssw)
22
We saw the movie yesterday afternoon and had a different reaction. Our reaction of anger was not only at the terrorists, but that the movie showed our institutions in chaos, people running around like chickens with their heads cut off. The passengers and crew on the plane were heroes, but they were depicted as sniveling, hiding behind the seats, trying to make calls surreptitiously, hesitant to take action even after they knew they weren't going to land safely. The final scene, rather than a triumph of ordinary people, was crazy angles and confusion.
They also stopped just short of saying Bush was a coward. Saying only that he was aboard Air Force One, destination unknown and the vice-president was unavailable.
But the thing that made me the maddest was that in the translation of the Arabic being spoken by the four terrorists, Allah was translated as God. Even though you could clearly hear that they were invoking the name of Allah, rather than hurt the feelings of Moslems, the producers chose not to use it in their translations.
If the moonbats are afraid of this milque toast rendition of the events on 9/11, they'll be really terrified when a hard hitting movie is made by those who have more interest in reminding us what really happened than the pandering to the sensitivities of those who danced in the streets upon hearing the news.
They also stopped just short of saying Bush was a coward. Saying only that he was aboard Air Force One, destination unknown and the vice-president was unavailable.
But the thing that made me the maddest was that in the translation of the Arabic being spoken by the four terrorists, Allah was translated as God. Even though you could clearly hear that they were invoking the name of Allah, rather than hurt the feelings of Moslems, the producers chose not to use it in their translations.
If the moonbats are afraid of this milque toast rendition of the events on 9/11, they'll be really terrified when a hard hitting movie is made by those who have more interest in reminding us what really happened than the pandering to the sensitivities of those who danced in the streets upon hearing the news.
Posted by: tefta at April 29, 2006 01:04 AM (gMNyI)
23
There was already a 2 hour feature on TV about flight 93 a couple of months ago sourced from the exact same records and the exact same family testimony.
I'm not sure why everyone is treating this movie as though it is something new.
I'm not sure why everyone is treating this movie as though it is something new.
Posted by: EK at April 29, 2006 01:37 AM (aOeXm)
24
"But the thing that made me the maddest was that in the translation of the Arabic being spoken by the four terrorists, Allah was translated as God. Even though you could clearly hear that they were invoking the name of Allah, rather than hurt the feelings of Moslems, the producers chose not to use it in their translations."
Allah IS Arabic for God you nut. Engligh speaking Muslims use both words interchangably.
So you watched a reenactment of a terrorist event where a couple of dozen of your fellow citizens died and what made you maddest was your misconceptions about Islam and supposed pandering to Muslims. There is a lesson there. And you're too stupid to understand it.
Allah IS Arabic for God you nut. Engligh speaking Muslims use both words interchangably.
So you watched a reenactment of a terrorist event where a couple of dozen of your fellow citizens died and what made you maddest was your misconceptions about Islam and supposed pandering to Muslims. There is a lesson there. And you're too stupid to understand it.
Posted by: EK at April 29, 2006 01:47 AM (aOeXm)
25
"I'll give him attribution when he says it's okay."
Ace, it's fine.
The movie plays it straight. Much more of a documentary with no commentary than a hollywood movie. United 93 is not escapism, not the entertainment you normally go to movies for.
Don't go if you’re not ready.
Pupster
Ace, it's fine.
The movie plays it straight. Much more of a documentary with no commentary than a hollywood movie. United 93 is not escapism, not the entertainment you normally go to movies for.
Don't go if you’re not ready.
Pupster
Posted by: Pupster at April 29, 2006 02:22 AM (9h6vV)
26
My wife and I saw the movie last night. It was intense. But, not for the reason I thought it would be. I went in thinking the most compelling drama would revolve around the passengers and crrew of United 93. Needless to say that was compelling.
However, to me it was not as impactful as the absolutely magnificent portrayal of the confussion surrounding the FAA and Military response. The movie made perfectly clear that no contingency plan was available for an event of that magnitude. No personal blame was assigned because no one ever planned for anything like it.
Even after AA11 had hit the tower, FAA thought it was still flying. An honest portrayal and a very good movie. It is time to remind ourselves of that day.
However, to me it was not as impactful as the absolutely magnificent portrayal of the confussion surrounding the FAA and Military response. The movie made perfectly clear that no contingency plan was available for an event of that magnitude. No personal blame was assigned because no one ever planned for anything like it.
Even after AA11 had hit the tower, FAA thought it was still flying. An honest portrayal and a very good movie. It is time to remind ourselves of that day.
Posted by: Ron LaCanne at April 29, 2006 02:29 AM (b5aUb)
27
EK -- Maddest about the way the movie was made, not about the terrorist attack. Are you too invested in leftwing ideology to be nable to understand a simple declarative sentence ,and why the need for name calling?
You believe that the translation of Allah as God wasn't deliberate, I beg to differ.
You believe that the translation of Allah as God wasn't deliberate, I beg to differ.
Posted by: tefta at April 29, 2006 02:37 AM (gMNyI)
28
I saw the first showing yesterday. My response to the movie, and the memorial, is here (lots of memorial pictures, so it may take a bit to load).
Posted by: rightwingprof at April 29, 2006 02:43 AM (hj1Wx)
29
I don't drink thank you anyway. I saw the movie and yes he is right about the muttering MF's and tearing up. If you haven't seen it go and see it right now. By the way it shows footage of the attacks. That should move you as well.
Posted by: cyclops125 at April 29, 2006 02:56 AM (VQMCz)
30
I was prepared to cry, so I went alone to the theatre. I was also expecting to be angry, as I was on 9-11 and still am. I was neither. I was proud. Proud of the heroic men and women of United 93. Proud of the air traffic controlers. Proud of how this movie embodies the American spirit. See this excellent and very intense movie and be proud of these 21st century minutemen and women.
Posted by: GordoMuskegon at April 29, 2006 04:19 AM (xNmdE)
31
My younger son was in first grade when we were attacked. He is 10 now, and not a day goes by that he doesn't ask me how the war is going or if I think America will be attacked again. That my child is growing up with this anxiety is the main reason why I viserally hate Islamists and why I pray for all the children and parents who love them around the world who live with the threat of terrorism higher than ours.
I took a group of students to visit the Flight 93 memorial (we lived about 45 minutes away). The volunter guide was fantastic. She explained what facts we know and how we know them. Let me share just 2:
1. A flight attendent called her family, knowing it was probably to say goodbye. Instead of tears, she was elated. She said, "I get to throw boiling water on them!"
I don't know if this is in the movie.
2. The plane crashed two air seconds from a school. As a mom and a teacher, I thank heaven that they were spared.
I took a group of students to visit the Flight 93 memorial (we lived about 45 minutes away). The volunter guide was fantastic. She explained what facts we know and how we know them. Let me share just 2:
1. A flight attendent called her family, knowing it was probably to say goodbye. Instead of tears, she was elated. She said, "I get to throw boiling water on them!"
I don't know if this is in the movie.
2. The plane crashed two air seconds from a school. As a mom and a teacher, I thank heaven that they were spared.
Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at April 29, 2006 04:35 AM (ix1nM)
32
Saw the movie yesterday and it is powerful! Everyone should see it!
I lost 5 friends ( firefighters) because of the attack on 9-11. So when someone said to me, oh I just can't see it, it would be too much to rememeber.
I told them " Listen you darn well should never forget and why the heck do you want to!!!!"
I used another word for darn and heck but not sure if it is ok on here.
See it, get MAD, get MAD all over again if the movie is what it takes to get mad again! Never forget!
The thing that stands out in the movie and what happened is the American spirit! It came through in the film just as it did on 9-11.
I lost 5 friends ( firefighters) because of the attack on 9-11. So when someone said to me, oh I just can't see it, it would be too much to rememeber.
I told them " Listen you darn well should never forget and why the heck do you want to!!!!"
I used another word for darn and heck but not sure if it is ok on here.
See it, get MAD, get MAD all over again if the movie is what it takes to get mad again! Never forget!
The thing that stands out in the movie and what happened is the American spirit! It came through in the film just as it did on 9-11.
Posted by: Wild Thing at April 29, 2006 05:15 AM (tj1zH)
33
Don't blame you Allah. I gotta go, though.
The passengers' decision to stand and fight made me remember to get up, to stand and to fight and not crumple up in fear or with a broken heart. I gotta go.
The passengers' decision to stand and fight made me remember to get up, to stand and to fight and not crumple up in fear or with a broken heart. I gotta go.
Posted by: SarahW at April 29, 2006 05:24 AM (mZUFb)
34
I watched a late showing of "United 93". last night
Its not a movie I enjoyed.
It brought back all the pain. All the rage. All the sadness.
I didn't enjoy it.
But everyone should go see it.
Its not a movie I enjoyed.
It brought back all the pain. All the rage. All the sadness.
I didn't enjoy it.
But everyone should go see it.
Posted by: Scott at April 29, 2006 05:33 AM (EXmrR)
35
Anger becomes resolve. Focus. And when you see others with resolve, you take courage.
I'm leaving to go see it in about a half hour.
I'm leaving to go see it in about a half hour.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 06:10 AM (LKC/j)
36
I used another word for darn and heck but not sure if it is ok on here.
This thread needed some comedy relief.
On topic, I'm leaving now to see this.
This thread needed some comedy relief.
On topic, I'm leaving now to see this.
Posted by: Andrew at April 29, 2006 06:34 AM (GnZn+)
37
The box office totals will be, I believe, a good barometer of the state of the union.
Did we forget?
Do we still care?
Has our resolve dissipated?
These questions will be answered by the reaction to this movie, both in attendance/revenue and reviews.
And it's always a good time to bring out the moonbats, who wear tin-foil hats and hate the Right, to show how appeasement and "peace" does not work when fighting evil.
Did we forget?
Do we still care?
Has our resolve dissipated?
These questions will be answered by the reaction to this movie, both in attendance/revenue and reviews.
And it's always a good time to bring out the moonbats, who wear tin-foil hats and hate the Right, to show how appeasement and "peace" does not work when fighting evil.
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 06:49 AM (m0TY5)
38
"The box office totals will be, I believe, a good barometer of the state of the union." - Bart
"However, to me it was not as impactful as the absolutely magnificent portrayal of the confussion surrounding the FAA and Military response." - Ron LaCanne
"Determination, not rage. Determination not to give in if confronted with terrorism face to face." - p. thadz
All EXCELLENT points.
My jaw clenched as soon as the FAA specialist noticed the first plane disappear off the radar. I just knew that was the first tower, and even though I knew what had just happened, I was filled with such dread as if it happened again.
One scene really took me, personally, and I have not read anyone else commenting on this:
What about the scene where the people in the NYC air traffic control tower actually WATCHED the planes hit though binoculars? To see planes reinacted through the windows of the control tower just rocked me. What an utter sense of helplessness! To watch and be able to do nothing!
See it. Again and again.
Never forget.
"However, to me it was not as impactful as the absolutely magnificent portrayal of the confussion surrounding the FAA and Military response." - Ron LaCanne
"Determination, not rage. Determination not to give in if confronted with terrorism face to face." - p. thadz
All EXCELLENT points.
My jaw clenched as soon as the FAA specialist noticed the first plane disappear off the radar. I just knew that was the first tower, and even though I knew what had just happened, I was filled with such dread as if it happened again.
One scene really took me, personally, and I have not read anyone else commenting on this:
What about the scene where the people in the NYC air traffic control tower actually WATCHED the planes hit though binoculars? To see planes reinacted through the windows of the control tower just rocked me. What an utter sense of helplessness! To watch and be able to do nothing!
See it. Again and again.
Never forget.
Posted by: kyer at April 29, 2006 07:12 AM (ntbDC)
39
Bart, did you notice the one European (German?) passenger's approach to dealing with the terrorists?
Heh.
I wonder how factual that part was.
Heh.
I wonder how factual that part was.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 29, 2006 07:15 AM (kJfu0)
40
My wife and I are going this afternoon. Please God, I hope there are no moonbats there.
Islam's terror would've been eradicated years ago and would no longer threaten us if we didn't have the moonbat weakness in our midst.
Islam's terror would've been eradicated years ago and would no longer threaten us if we didn't have the moonbat weakness in our midst.
Posted by: adolfo velasquez at April 29, 2006 07:17 AM (WuD+F)
41
I've got to drive about 50 minutes to see the movie because the local theatres are showing it.
But it's a drive I'm going to make.
But it's a drive I'm going to make.
Posted by: Birkel at April 29, 2006 08:19 AM (DSGrX)
Posted by: Birkel at April 29, 2006 08:21 AM (DSGrX)
43
Excellent point, See-Dubya. That guy really annoyed me. Didn't he try something funny at the very end?
I'm still trying to process the movie. It's a blur. So much to go through.
I'm still trying to process the movie. It's a blur. So much to go through.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 29, 2006 08:45 AM (Q8UK2)
44
The theater was completely silent. Its was a very sobering experience.
This is a must see movie so that we don't forget about our enemy. For me the statement "We are at war! and until we know who we are at war with, I am grounding all air traffic" just kept resounding in my head. That statment acknowledge that this was not "just" a movie about "a high jacked" plane and some heroic passengers. That statement acknowledged these were passengers that became citizen soldiers and were the first to defend the USA against this attack on the USA.
The heroism of those aboard Flt 93 was a focus and acknowledged as it should be. I believe the movie also has much to say about us being attacked and how we responded in those first few hours.
God Bless this nation and grant us the wisdom and fortitude to finish what others started.
This is a must see movie so that we don't forget about our enemy. For me the statement "We are at war! and until we know who we are at war with, I am grounding all air traffic" just kept resounding in my head. That statment acknowledge that this was not "just" a movie about "a high jacked" plane and some heroic passengers. That statement acknowledged these were passengers that became citizen soldiers and were the first to defend the USA against this attack on the USA.
The heroism of those aboard Flt 93 was a focus and acknowledged as it should be. I believe the movie also has much to say about us being attacked and how we responded in those first few hours.
God Bless this nation and grant us the wisdom and fortitude to finish what others started.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 08:47 AM (HEjoD)
45
I'm going Monday, for a double statement. In the process, I'm going to drop a bunch of money at the mall. Just buying the goods illegals don't want to buy...
Posted by: S. Weasel at April 29, 2006 08:55 AM (1HKrT)
46
Well stated Bodacious!
That statement acknowledged these were passengers that became citizen soldiers and were the first to defend the USA against this attack on the USA.
That statement acknowledged these were passengers that became citizen soldiers and were the first to defend the USA against this attack on the USA.
Posted by: GordoMuskegon at April 29, 2006 09:00 AM (xNmdE)
47
I see a lot of meaningful and heartening comments in this thread. Thank you, everyone.
p. thadz: I saw it in a theater near yours, and I too was glad that the moonbats didn't show up. The audience was quiet and respectful, and I thank God for that. I wouldn't count on that respect lasting long, though. Nothing is sacred to the moonbats save their own egos. If the movie plays for some time, and has an impact, I'd expect moonbats to start fouling theaters to draw attention back to themselves. It's one more reason to see it now.
kyer: What about the scene where the people in the NYC air traffic control tower actually WATCHED the planes hit...
Yes, somewhat surprisingly, that scene elicited the strongest visceral reaction in me. It's an impersonal, distant-view scene, yet it shot a spiderweb of tingles across my guts. Visceral dread. I knew that the dread would mature to rage by the end of the movie, and it did.
wiserbud: However, once you have kids, you see the world differently. To look into my daughter's eyes and realize that we have failed to provide a safer world for her. That absolutely breaks my heart.
I can't really comprehend how graying adults -- parents -- can sacrifice the essential needs of their children to any selfish and secondary need. How can the need for political power, or moral superiority, or mere denial -- how can these things override the need to protect your innocent children?
Recently I attended a local Lutheran service, where for no good reason the soft man behind the pulpit lectured for several minutes on the wages of sin, in reference to 9/11. He specifically asked us to consider the possibility that 9/11 was a kind of divine retribution for our own sins; God's way of telling us to seek forgiveness. This sour pap elicited not a sound from any of the parents there; and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have proffered it unless he knew it's what they wanted to hear. It was their Communion. They took it with their children.
---
wiserbud, I don't have children yet, but my instincts align with yours. As I drove home from the movie I heard myself thinking, "They killed our children. Nothing, nothing is forbidden us."
p. thadz: I saw it in a theater near yours, and I too was glad that the moonbats didn't show up. The audience was quiet and respectful, and I thank God for that. I wouldn't count on that respect lasting long, though. Nothing is sacred to the moonbats save their own egos. If the movie plays for some time, and has an impact, I'd expect moonbats to start fouling theaters to draw attention back to themselves. It's one more reason to see it now.
kyer: What about the scene where the people in the NYC air traffic control tower actually WATCHED the planes hit...
Yes, somewhat surprisingly, that scene elicited the strongest visceral reaction in me. It's an impersonal, distant-view scene, yet it shot a spiderweb of tingles across my guts. Visceral dread. I knew that the dread would mature to rage by the end of the movie, and it did.
wiserbud: However, once you have kids, you see the world differently. To look into my daughter's eyes and realize that we have failed to provide a safer world for her. That absolutely breaks my heart.
I can't really comprehend how graying adults -- parents -- can sacrifice the essential needs of their children to any selfish and secondary need. How can the need for political power, or moral superiority, or mere denial -- how can these things override the need to protect your innocent children?
Recently I attended a local Lutheran service, where for no good reason the soft man behind the pulpit lectured for several minutes on the wages of sin, in reference to 9/11. He specifically asked us to consider the possibility that 9/11 was a kind of divine retribution for our own sins; God's way of telling us to seek forgiveness. This sour pap elicited not a sound from any of the parents there; and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have proffered it unless he knew it's what they wanted to hear. It was their Communion. They took it with their children.
---
wiserbud, I don't have children yet, but my instincts align with yours. As I drove home from the movie I heard myself thinking, "They killed our children. Nothing, nothing is forbidden us."
Posted by: tex at April 29, 2006 09:25 AM (JTZ4F)
48
I haven't seen the movie yet, see-dubya.
But I understand what you're getting at with the foreign passenger.
But I understand what you're getting at with the foreign passenger.
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 09:47 AM (8XedC)
49
One other thought: It seemed to me that the film will serve well as a historical portrait of Americans "as they were" in the first day of WWIII. I think it really will play in history classes centuries, millennia hence. It will be one of the assigned documents, like President Bush's 2001 post-9/11 address to Congress, and transcripts of Saudi madrassa sermons, which students will mine for answers to the question, "Why did the United States risk all, to conquer the Middle East?"
Posted by: tex at April 29, 2006 09:50 AM (JTZ4F)
50
I think one of the post important elements of the film, from a story-telling perspective, is that they did not seem to focus on any one particular passenger in general.
There are a few names that seem to stand out when we think of Flight 93, Todd Beamer being one of them. When Beamer said "Let's roll...", it was almost subtle and I dare say, you might have even missed it.
I really really appreciated the fact that the film took almost an all-encompassing perspective and really let the viewer focus on the actions and emotions of the passengers as a collective. To do otherwise, I believe, would have been a disservice to those who died.
There are a few names that seem to stand out when we think of Flight 93, Todd Beamer being one of them. When Beamer said "Let's roll...", it was almost subtle and I dare say, you might have even missed it.
I really really appreciated the fact that the film took almost an all-encompassing perspective and really let the viewer focus on the actions and emotions of the passengers as a collective. To do otherwise, I believe, would have been a disservice to those who died.
Posted by: kyer at April 29, 2006 10:06 AM (ntbDC)
51
I was an active duty USAF fighter pilot stationed on the east coast during the 80’s. I remember a discussion one night where several of us questioned the possibility of having to shoot down a civilian airliner due to its potentially being purposefully crashed into inhabited targets. At the time, the concept was so incredibly far-fetched that it was easily dismissed as absurd to the point of being able to joke about it. I remember distinctly one person saying “No one would ever do such a thing…” and that summed up our thinking on the matter. It was no more plausible for someone to fly an airplane into the twin towers than it was for Martians to invade.
I have a problem with the antagonistic criticisms of the FAA and military actions on 9/11. They, just like us, were taken by surprise. Further, there are a lot of technical and logistical reasons why tracking those airliners would have been close to impossible given the time frames, altitudes, and actions taken by the hijacking pilots. Whether they should have taken us by surprise is not something we can easily judge given the 20/20 hind site burned into our psyches by the events of that day.
But as a former fighter pilot, I believe that shooting down an airliner would still be a ‘glorious’ victory for the enemy. Forget what you know about 9/11 for a minute. You have no idea that those airliners were going to be used as weapons. Your bias - based upon prior hijackings - was that they would be redirected to courses and/or airports from which the hijackers would issue their demands. Basically, hijackings were airborne kidnappings at that time.
Had those airliners been intercepted and downed by American pilots, those pilots would not be heroes - they, the military, and the administration, would be villains of the worst sort. The MSM would tell us there was no credible proof that the airliners were going to be crashed into buildings. Some of the left would tell us that any proof was planted by the Bush administration to further their goal of going to war, helping the oil companies, etc., etc. Standard moonbatisms ad infinitum would prevail.
Shooting down airliners does not accomplish anything beyond the slim possibility of denying the enemy an intended target. But there is a difference between a target and a goal. If an airline hijacked by Muslim extremists bent on crashing it into a populated area is shot down, the hijackers are still victorious and achieve their goal. The only way for us to win is to do everything we can to prevent the situation from ever happening.
I have a problem with the antagonistic criticisms of the FAA and military actions on 9/11. They, just like us, were taken by surprise. Further, there are a lot of technical and logistical reasons why tracking those airliners would have been close to impossible given the time frames, altitudes, and actions taken by the hijacking pilots. Whether they should have taken us by surprise is not something we can easily judge given the 20/20 hind site burned into our psyches by the events of that day.
But as a former fighter pilot, I believe that shooting down an airliner would still be a ‘glorious’ victory for the enemy. Forget what you know about 9/11 for a minute. You have no idea that those airliners were going to be used as weapons. Your bias - based upon prior hijackings - was that they would be redirected to courses and/or airports from which the hijackers would issue their demands. Basically, hijackings were airborne kidnappings at that time.
Had those airliners been intercepted and downed by American pilots, those pilots would not be heroes - they, the military, and the administration, would be villains of the worst sort. The MSM would tell us there was no credible proof that the airliners were going to be crashed into buildings. Some of the left would tell us that any proof was planted by the Bush administration to further their goal of going to war, helping the oil companies, etc., etc. Standard moonbatisms ad infinitum would prevail.
Shooting down airliners does not accomplish anything beyond the slim possibility of denying the enemy an intended target. But there is a difference between a target and a goal. If an airline hijacked by Muslim extremists bent on crashing it into a populated area is shot down, the hijackers are still victorious and achieve their goal. The only way for us to win is to do everything we can to prevent the situation from ever happening.
Posted by: F15C at April 29, 2006 10:09 AM (MatoY)
52
I'm looking at the box-office estimates for 93.
1. RV - $4.5m/3639 theatres
2. Stick It - $4m/2038/theatres
3. United 93 - $3.7m/1800 theatres
So it looks like 93 grossed the most per theatre. That's good news. I would have been worried, and embarrassed for our country, if Robin Williams' RV did better than 93.
RV got lousy reviews from the critics. That's more good news.
93 got very good reviews from the critics.
The lowest grades were from E! and the NYT. (What else do you expect from the Paris Hilton Network and New York Slimes?)
Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Bob Longino (A-) --
"It easily ranks as the best movie so far this year."
Chicago Sun-Times, Roger Ebert (A) --
"This is a masterful and heartbreaking film, and it does honor to the memory of the victims."
Chicago Tribune, Michael Phillips (A) --
"The film is lean, harsh and remarkably free of cant. It doesn't waste a single minute of its harrowing 111 minutes."
E! Online (B-) --
"...ultimately, the film leaves you with the same feeling you have going in: one of total dread."
New York Times, Manohla Dargis (B-) --
"...it is good, in a temple-pounding, sensory-overloading way that can provoke tears and a headache..."
Rolling Stone, Peter Travers (A) --
"...a monumental achievement that stands above any film this year."
Seattle Post-Intelligencer, William Arnold (A-) --
"...a respectful, accomplished, non-exploitative piece of historical filmmaking..."
1. RV - $4.5m/3639 theatres
2. Stick It - $4m/2038/theatres
3. United 93 - $3.7m/1800 theatres
So it looks like 93 grossed the most per theatre. That's good news. I would have been worried, and embarrassed for our country, if Robin Williams' RV did better than 93.
RV got lousy reviews from the critics. That's more good news.
93 got very good reviews from the critics.
The lowest grades were from E! and the NYT. (What else do you expect from the Paris Hilton Network and New York Slimes?)
Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Bob Longino (A-) --
"It easily ranks as the best movie so far this year."
Chicago Sun-Times, Roger Ebert (A) --
"This is a masterful and heartbreaking film, and it does honor to the memory of the victims."
Chicago Tribune, Michael Phillips (A) --
"The film is lean, harsh and remarkably free of cant. It doesn't waste a single minute of its harrowing 111 minutes."
E! Online (B-) --
"...ultimately, the film leaves you with the same feeling you have going in: one of total dread."
New York Times, Manohla Dargis (B-) --
"...it is good, in a temple-pounding, sensory-overloading way that can provoke tears and a headache..."
Rolling Stone, Peter Travers (A) --
"...a monumental achievement that stands above any film this year."
Seattle Post-Intelligencer, William Arnold (A-) --
"...a respectful, accomplished, non-exploitative piece of historical filmmaking..."
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 10:11 AM (DqRXv)
53
shooting down an airliner would still be a ‘glorious’ victory for the enemy.
I agree 100%, F15C. Pieces of an American airliner raining down upon the streets of New York would have also pleased Allah, I imagine. And because it would be Americans killing Americans, the results would have been doubly sweet to Osama.
I agree 100%, F15C. Pieces of an American airliner raining down upon the streets of New York would have also pleased Allah, I imagine. And because it would be Americans killing Americans, the results would have been doubly sweet to Osama.
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 10:24 AM (DqRXv)
54
That was actually something I liked. They showed the chaos, confusion, and frustration of that day. Everyone was taken by surprise. I think everyone did well that day, all things considered. We have to remember that they were living in a 9/10 world. After the impacts and the flight groundings would 9/11 come forth with a fury. We can nitpick all day long on what they should have done: fact is that they never imagined this, and did the best they could.
I must say that deciding to ground all flights was a very good decision. A very difficult decision, but a good one.
I really liked the movie's realism. Makes the events more striking.
I must say that deciding to ground all flights was a very good decision. A very difficult decision, but a good one.
I really liked the movie's realism. Makes the events more striking.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 29, 2006 10:31 AM (Q8UK2)
55
Greetings,
Has anyone heard, The L.A. Guns, song about
Flight 93, called "O.K., Lets Roll" from Waking
the Dead cd?
Its a Kick A## Tribute to the Heroes on that flight.
If you get a chance, give it a listen.
Tony LaVanway
South Haven, MI
Has anyone heard, The L.A. Guns, song about
Flight 93, called "O.K., Lets Roll" from Waking
the Dead cd?
Its a Kick A## Tribute to the Heroes on that flight.
If you get a chance, give it a listen.
Tony LaVanway
South Haven, MI
Posted by: Tony LaVanway at April 29, 2006 10:45 AM (LC2s7)
56
Just got back, and I'm very shaken. My stomach is still in knots. It was a morning showing, and the theater was relatively empty, but it, too, was dead silent at the end. I don't have much to add to the comments. Nice job, everyone.
Posted by: c at April 29, 2006 10:58 AM (+7sBO)
57
Allah IS Arabic for God you nut. Engligh speaking Muslims use both words interchangably.
so they talk about the roman allahs and the greek allahs?
was aphrodite an allahess?
so they talk about the roman allahs and the greek allahs?
was aphrodite an allahess?
Posted by: at April 29, 2006 11:08 AM (7iHyO)
58
Presumably, although I doubt they use English endings. Seriously, that's the word - like we say Gods and Goddesses when God is the word for... well, Allah in English.
I don't know how accurate the confusion is, a part of me suspects they over played it a bit for dramatic effect but that may just be the cynic in me.
I don't know how accurate the confusion is, a part of me suspects they over played it a bit for dramatic effect but that may just be the cynic in me.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 29, 2006 11:26 AM (1Vbso)
59
wow.
the advice we've all been hearing? get ready to see it?
good advice.
apologies to ace for whoring my link.. just didn't want to rewrite it.
I'm glad I went to see this.
It's hard to see.
the advice we've all been hearing? get ready to see it?
good advice.
apologies to ace for whoring my link.. just didn't want to rewrite it.
I'm glad I went to see this.
It's hard to see.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 11:35 AM (IRkkY)
60
Bart: "And because it would be Americans killing Americans, the results would have been doubly sweet to Osama. "
You are right. The ethical situation is indicative of the conumdrum we face in the larger war against Muslim extremists. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't do what is necessary to stop the next attack(s). There is no perfect solution, no right answer. Only the least bad solution that accomplishes that which needs to be done. And that will not be clean or pleasant for anyone. None of it is easy, but it is what has been handed to us.
I am going to see the movie but have not yet done so. From what I've read, I'm glad that the Muslim hijackers were portrayed as every bit as human as anyone else.
That is the unfortunate truth, they are not animals or monsters. They are humans who admit to loving death where we love life. Where we would like nothing bettter than for them and their children were to live in peace and happiness. They have sworn to, and believe they have the right to, kill 4 million Americans, 2 million of them our children. They expect those 4 million souls to reside in hell for all eternity.
We need to deal with them as such.
You are right. The ethical situation is indicative of the conumdrum we face in the larger war against Muslim extremists. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't do what is necessary to stop the next attack(s). There is no perfect solution, no right answer. Only the least bad solution that accomplishes that which needs to be done. And that will not be clean or pleasant for anyone. None of it is easy, but it is what has been handed to us.
I am going to see the movie but have not yet done so. From what I've read, I'm glad that the Muslim hijackers were portrayed as every bit as human as anyone else.
That is the unfortunate truth, they are not animals or monsters. They are humans who admit to loving death where we love life. Where we would like nothing bettter than for them and their children were to live in peace and happiness. They have sworn to, and believe they have the right to, kill 4 million Americans, 2 million of them our children. They expect those 4 million souls to reside in hell for all eternity.
We need to deal with them as such.
Posted by: F15C at April 29, 2006 11:46 AM (MatoY)
61
Allah IS Arabic for God you nut. Engligh speaking Muslims use both words interchangably.
so they talk about the roman allahs and the greek allahs?
was aphrodite an allahess?
Aphrodite was a "Thea", Zeus was a "Theos" (Greek words for "God/Goddess")
Jupiter was a Deo (Latin word for "God")
The literal translation of Allah IS God, just as Deo IS God in Latin, and Theos is God in Greek.
Coptic Arabs and other Arabic Christians also call God "Allah."
This line of argument is just silly, folks.
so they talk about the roman allahs and the greek allahs?
was aphrodite an allahess?
Aphrodite was a "Thea", Zeus was a "Theos" (Greek words for "God/Goddess")
Jupiter was a Deo (Latin word for "God")
The literal translation of Allah IS God, just as Deo IS God in Latin, and Theos is God in Greek.
Coptic Arabs and other Arabic Christians also call God "Allah."
This line of argument is just silly, folks.
Posted by: cheshirecat at April 29, 2006 11:50 AM (+cWWK)
62
And, likely, the roman/greek gods above would be referred to in arabic as "ilaah", which means deity. As in the muslim creed:
Laa ilaaha illallah
"There is no god but The God"
It's basically the same thing we do when we write "god" for a minor deity and "God" for, well, the Allmighty One. (yes, I misspelt that--the filter won't let me type it correctly)
Laa ilaaha illallah
"There is no god but The God"
It's basically the same thing we do when we write "god" for a minor deity and "God" for, well, the Allmighty One. (yes, I misspelt that--the filter won't let me type it correctly)
Posted by: cheshirecat at April 29, 2006 11:54 AM (+cWWK)
63
Just came back from seeing it. No bullshit. Not "message", no politics. It's practically a documentary, took the subject extremely seriously.
Also ruined my day, because I am severely pissed off and not happy towards the ROP at all.
Also ruined my day, because I am severely pissed off and not happy towards the ROP at all.
Posted by: Moonbat_One at April 29, 2006 11:56 AM (qlF1y)
64
Just got back, here's my review in case anyone cares.
Utterly amazing, and devastating.
-- Dave at Garfield Ridge
Utterly amazing, and devastating.
-- Dave at Garfield Ridge
Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at April 29, 2006 12:04 PM (kc9zT)
65
Excellent reviews! I'm just so glad we will have this film to show our children that were too young to really remember 9-11.
I want them to forever remember.
I want them to forever remember.
Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at April 29, 2006 01:08 PM (mvCeX)
66
Just returned moments ago, with my wife, from seeing United 93.
It is in no way, shape or form hyperbole to state that this may easily prove itself to be the single most important mass market film of the last fifty, sixty years (minimum), should a great enough percentage of this country's citizenry actually bestir themselves to see it, rather than opting for the easy, mind-numbing comforts of (say) Scary Movie 4, or RV. The remorseless efficiency with which it reminds one -- inexorably; irrefutably -- of the stark whys and wherefores necessitating nothing less than total victory in our current culture clash between the forces of civilization and barbarism -- a far, far better job, regrettably, than this administration has done itself, these past few years -- conceivably could (and manifestly SHOULD) serve as rousing a rallying clarion call for thinking, freedom-minded men and women everywhere as did Fahrenheit 911, in turn, for the hopelessly delusional.
During the entire last half hour, my wife -- the strongest, bravest woman I have ever known -- was weeping, openly and unashamedly; and my own jaw clenched so tightly, throughout, that it practically Novocained my entire face numb. In the wake of the final blackout scene, the entire theater -- here in Seattle, the Drooling, Brain-Dead Leftist Capital of the Free World Entire, mind -- was as silent and unmoving, for long moments afterwards, as a tableau of the bottommost portion of the Mariana Trench.
Everyone you know, or ever have known -- "progressive," conservative or what-have-you -- needs to see this film.
NEEDS to.
It is in no way, shape or form hyperbole to state that this may easily prove itself to be the single most important mass market film of the last fifty, sixty years (minimum), should a great enough percentage of this country's citizenry actually bestir themselves to see it, rather than opting for the easy, mind-numbing comforts of (say) Scary Movie 4, or RV. The remorseless efficiency with which it reminds one -- inexorably; irrefutably -- of the stark whys and wherefores necessitating nothing less than total victory in our current culture clash between the forces of civilization and barbarism -- a far, far better job, regrettably, than this administration has done itself, these past few years -- conceivably could (and manifestly SHOULD) serve as rousing a rallying clarion call for thinking, freedom-minded men and women everywhere as did Fahrenheit 911, in turn, for the hopelessly delusional.
During the entire last half hour, my wife -- the strongest, bravest woman I have ever known -- was weeping, openly and unashamedly; and my own jaw clenched so tightly, throughout, that it practically Novocained my entire face numb. In the wake of the final blackout scene, the entire theater -- here in Seattle, the Drooling, Brain-Dead Leftist Capital of the Free World Entire, mind -- was as silent and unmoving, for long moments afterwards, as a tableau of the bottommost portion of the Mariana Trench.
Everyone you know, or ever have known -- "progressive," conservative or what-have-you -- needs to see this film.
NEEDS to.
Posted by: Kent at April 29, 2006 01:16 PM (JsGZz)
67
I wonder how many Americans believe the 9/11 attacks were "criminal acts" and not acts of war? I suspect, with deep regret, that the figure is in the tens of millions. Maybe this movie will change a few minds.
Posted by: Eman at April 29, 2006 01:34 PM (ljoDE)
68
I think this movie might be the test that shows why Hollywood has been so desperately avoiding the topic and not making any movies about it. Because of the effect it might have on peoples' attitudes.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 29, 2006 01:53 PM (1Vbso)
69
One name I have yet to hear mentioned is Zacharius Moussaoui. Wasn't he supposed to be on flight 93?
If the jurors in his trial saw this movie, would they be taking so long to deliberate his sentence? I doubt it.
If the jurors in his trial saw this movie, would they be taking so long to deliberate his sentence? I doubt it.
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 02:37 PM (teQWf)
70
Saw the movie this afternoon. It was utterly absorbing. Even though I knew how it would end, the way the film is done, I almost started to think they might pull it off and pull the plane out of the dive. Just not enough time. What remains with me is how heroic and decent these ordinary Americans on 93 were. I felt very sad but very proud as I left.
Posted by: TM at April 29, 2006 02:54 PM (8gucW)
71
As soon as I read this review, I went out to see the movie at the first available showing...
Incredibly powerful. When the screen blacked out at the end, there was no sound in the theater except for spectators sobbing. I've never witnessed anything like it (either in a movie or in an audience).
Incredibly powerful. When the screen blacked out at the end, there was no sound in the theater except for spectators sobbing. I've never witnessed anything like it (either in a movie or in an audience).
Posted by: Cat4AMT at April 29, 2006 02:55 PM (3quZI)
72
Muslihoon-Yeah, now that you mention it, I think he did. But I can't quite remember what it was.
Y'all watch what happens to the Eurodude and remind me. (Maybe mark it a spoiler? Can there be a spoiler here?) I think it will be worth noting how the director deals with that character. If Muslihoon and I are right, it is a very interesting choice for the director to have made.
Y'all watch what happens to the Eurodude and remind me. (Maybe mark it a spoiler? Can there be a spoiler here?) I think it will be worth noting how the director deals with that character. If Muslihoon and I are right, it is a very interesting choice for the director to have made.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 29, 2006 02:58 PM (kJfu0)
73
Were the theatres packed/sold out?
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 02:58 PM (teQWf)
74
Just got back... Powerful movie. I can only echo what has already been said.
A friend I ran into after the movie brought up something and I was wondering what others thought. He said the scene that cuts between a passenger praying and the terrorist praying said: "It's a little too morally equivalent for me."
I did not see it that way. I told him to look at it in context. The scene is not that simplistic. It clearly juxtaposes the immorality of those who set out to willfully and kill their fellow human beings in cold blood with the rightfully frightened, but noble and ultimately moral behavior of the intended victims.
Both were praying, but in entirely different contexts. One praying to God for help and blessings in killing their fellow human beings, the other for sustenance and forgiveness for themselves as well as "those who trespass against" them.
The difference is telling and clearly illustrates the inarguable morality that goes to the very core of the conflict with radical Islamists.
A friend I ran into after the movie brought up something and I was wondering what others thought. He said the scene that cuts between a passenger praying and the terrorist praying said: "It's a little too morally equivalent for me."
I did not see it that way. I told him to look at it in context. The scene is not that simplistic. It clearly juxtaposes the immorality of those who set out to willfully and kill their fellow human beings in cold blood with the rightfully frightened, but noble and ultimately moral behavior of the intended victims.
Both were praying, but in entirely different contexts. One praying to God for help and blessings in killing their fellow human beings, the other for sustenance and forgiveness for themselves as well as "those who trespass against" them.
The difference is telling and clearly illustrates the inarguable morality that goes to the very core of the conflict with radical Islamists.
Posted by: F15C at April 29, 2006 03:04 PM (MatoY)
75
Bart, I saw it at Hoffman Center in Alexandria, Virginia. It's a big 20+ screen multiplex. They only had United 93 on one screen (?!?), but RV and Silent Hill were on multiple screens (figures).
Anyway, it was about 80-85% I'd say, which is plenty full for a 2:30 Saturday afternoon showing. That said, given that it was only playing on one screen, that's to be expected.
I dunno how it'll play in the coming weeks, but I'm guessing the word-of-mouth will be close to unanimously positive (I'd be curious to hear a *negative* review from someone here, if anyone feels badly about the film).
Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge
Anyway, it was about 80-85% I'd say, which is plenty full for a 2:30 Saturday afternoon showing. That said, given that it was only playing on one screen, that's to be expected.
I dunno how it'll play in the coming weeks, but I'm guessing the word-of-mouth will be close to unanimously positive (I'd be curious to hear a *negative* review from someone here, if anyone feels badly about the film).
Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge
Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at April 29, 2006 03:05 PM (kc9zT)
76
Bart- No, about a third full, but this was Northern California and a 10:30 showing.
I was the second to the last to leave; last was a sober silver-haired fellow who was holding on to a white hankerchief. Glad I wasn't the only one.
I was the second to the last to leave; last was a sober silver-haired fellow who was holding on to a white hankerchief. Glad I wasn't the only one.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 29, 2006 03:07 PM (kJfu0)
77
See-dub, a commenter at Dave's blog mentioned the Euro appeaser.
I'm very curious as to where that bit in the film originated? Was it a factual account, or was the writer and/or director using poetic license by adding in the typical Euro-weenie appeaser?
I'm very curious as to where that bit in the film originated? Was it a factual account, or was the writer and/or director using poetic license by adding in the typical Euro-weenie appeaser?
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 03:14 PM (teQWf)
78
Very good point F15C
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 29, 2006 03:16 PM (kJfu0)
79
See-Dubya -- I'm Nor-Cal too. Just above Sacramento toward Lake Tahoe.
We had a nearly full audience and when I was waiting to go in, I watched the audience leave from the earlier showing and the toll of the movie was evident on their faces. Young, old, male and female they all to varying degrees looked shocked and hurt. The same look I had when I left...
We had a nearly full audience and when I was waiting to go in, I watched the audience leave from the earlier showing and the toll of the movie was evident on their faces. Young, old, male and female they all to varying degrees looked shocked and hurt. The same look I had when I left...
Posted by: at April 29, 2006 03:29 PM (MatoY)
80
See-Dubya -- I'm Nor-Cal too. Just above Sacramento toward Lake Tahoe.
We had a nearly full audience and when I was waiting to go in, I watched the audience leave from the earlier showing and the toll of the movie was evident on their faces. Young, old, male and female they all to varying degrees looked shocked and hurt. The same look I had when I left...
We had a nearly full audience and when I was waiting to go in, I watched the audience leave from the earlier showing and the toll of the movie was evident on their faces. Young, old, male and female they all to varying degrees looked shocked and hurt. The same look I had when I left...
Posted by: F15C at April 29, 2006 03:30 PM (MatoY)
81
I saw it last night in Huntsville, AL at the 7PM showing and it was 70% full. Although it is playing at 2 of the 3 theaters in town.
I forgot something and had to return to the theater and on my way back inside I passed the last persons to leave the theater who was what appreared to be a wounded soldier in a wheel chair with his wife.
Last night was a VERY sobering experience to say the least.
I forgot something and had to return to the theater and on my way back inside I passed the last persons to leave the theater who was what appreared to be a wounded soldier in a wheel chair with his wife.
Last night was a VERY sobering experience to say the least.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt90266 at April 29, 2006 03:30 PM (HEjoD)
82
Someone mentioned the Euro-appeaser - the person portrayed was Christian Adams, a German.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715000/
As someone also asked at Dave's blog, anyone know why he was portrayed in this way?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715000/
As someone also asked at Dave's blog, anyone know why he was portrayed in this way?
Posted by: Cat4AMT at April 29, 2006 03:32 PM (3quZI)
83
Whatever you do, don't look at the first picture here after you see this movie.
Bart, I'm sure theEuropean passenger himself is real, but I don't know how Greengrass could have extrapolated his behavior.
Bart, I'm sure theEuropean passenger himself is real, but I don't know how Greengrass could have extrapolated his behavior.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 29, 2006 03:34 PM (kJfu0)
84
I lived in Huntsville Alabama on Scenic View drive (south off Memorial) from 1964 to 69.
The little pine tree me and dad planted is 50 feet tall now.
Small world.
The little pine tree me and dad planted is 50 feet tall now.
Small world.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 03:46 PM (w7b6u)
85
Thank you for all the commentary. I can't see it this this weekend because I'm kind of under the weather, and I don't think I can take such an intense movie under the circumstances. (Robitussin+ sudafed + advil + cheap red wine + movie = hurl)
But I'm going to go see it asap. What I'm trying to decide is should we take our 14-year-old boy. At first I was thinking, No—too much. But now I'm leaning towards taking him.
I'm open to any suggestions on this.
But I'm going to go see it asap. What I'm trying to decide is should we take our 14-year-old boy. At first I was thinking, No—too much. But now I'm leaning towards taking him.
I'm open to any suggestions on this.
Posted by: stace at April 29, 2006 03:49 PM (A56/D)
86
Slightly off-topic, but:
Dudes!~ I got banned from the Flight93 discussion forum!
Talk about weird!
Also, there's no valid e-mails addys that I can find linking to who's running the show there.
Creepy in the extreme...
Dudes!~ I got banned from the Flight93 discussion forum!
Talk about weird!
Also, there's no valid e-mails addys that I can find linking to who's running the show there.
Creepy in the extreme...
Posted by: 5cats at April 29, 2006 04:19 PM (cVijR)
87
Just got back. Still digesting, but immediate response is that everyone must see this movie.
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 29, 2006 04:29 PM (l+FwE)
88
I have the admit the juxtaposition of the passengers praying and the terrorists praying - particularly when I could understand the gist of what the terrorists were praying - jolted me a bit. I didn't expect it. I think I'm still coming to terms with it. As someone mentioned, it could have been a good thing, setting side by side innocents reaching into their faith with terrorists and their repetitive formulas and inhumane logic. But I dunno. I can't figure out whether I like it or not.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 29, 2006 04:32 PM (Q8UK2)
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 04:33 PM (w7b6u)
90
I lived in Huntsville Alabama on Scenic View drive (south off Memorial) from 1964 to 69.
Dave, yeah it is a small world. Not sure when the last time you were here but I am told it has changed quite a bit in the past 10 yrs. I moved here 3 yrs ago.
That would mean your dad must have been part of the space program and connected to Von Braun and his team.
Dave, yeah it is a small world. Not sure when the last time you were here but I am told it has changed quite a bit in the past 10 yrs. I moved here 3 yrs ago.
That would mean your dad must have been part of the space program and connected to Von Braun and his team.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt90266 at April 29, 2006 04:41 PM (HEjoD)
91
Stacie I agree with Dave you need to prepare him for the intensity of the movie.
I have a 13 yr old daughter that I plan to take to see the movie. Although, I am glad I saw it first and am prepared to help her digest the intensity of the feelings she will experience while watching the movie and the emotion of the audience. Very much like the morning of 9/11 and watching the events unfold live on t.v.
I have a 13 yr old daughter that I plan to take to see the movie. Although, I am glad I saw it first and am prepared to help her digest the intensity of the feelings she will experience while watching the movie and the emotion of the audience. Very much like the morning of 9/11 and watching the events unfold live on t.v.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 04:47 PM (HEjoD)
92
The only thing I know about Huntsville, Alabama is what I read in James Michener's novel, "Space."
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 04:50 PM (teQWf)
Posted by: lauraw at April 29, 2006 05:00 PM (o6H31)
94
Thanks, Dave and bodacious. I'll prep him for it. He was in school of course when it happened, but he knows that that's the day we finally realized that we were at war.
Posted by: stace at April 29, 2006 05:01 PM (A56/D)
95
Bart...well O/T but it is an interesting place. We have more Phd's per capita than any other city in the entire U.S., it is the most Northern "Deep South" city you will find. Most of the residents are not from Huntsville let alone the south or even the U.S. We have NASA, Redstone Arsenal, and Bio-Tech. This is a very scientific city.
I grew up in L.A. and this city is not how 95% of the U.S. would categorize a city in Alabama let alone the Deep South.
It is a very interesting mix of Americana with a scientific bent.
I grew up in L.A. and this city is not how 95% of the U.S. would categorize a city in Alabama let alone the Deep South.
It is a very interesting mix of Americana with a scientific bent.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 05:01 PM (HEjoD)
96
Thanks, Dave and bodacious. I'll prep him for it. He was in school of course when it happened, but he knows that that's the day we finally realized that we were at war.
Stacie, we lived on the west coast at the time and so my daughter saw it live as it happened that day.
Stacie, we lived on the west coast at the time and so my daughter saw it live as it happened that day.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 05:06 PM (HEjoD)
97
About the European on the flight (Adams)...I wouldn't be too hard on him. At the time, they all probably thought that this was a hijack/ransom scenario, the conventional wisdom being that someone would pay the ransom and they would land. It was only after the news of the WTC got passed around that they realised they were to become a sacrifice.
Posted by: cheshirecat at April 29, 2006 05:19 PM (/cN9W)
98
How funny... my dad worked for Brown Engineering from 1964-69.
Dr. von Braun insisted on the "Americanized" spelling for his company.
Dad says I met Dr. von Braun and his wife... I don't remember them. I do remember meeting Gus Grissom and Ed White... it was less than a year before they died.
Gus was kinda grouchy, but Ed made me laugh.
Dr. von Braun insisted on the "Americanized" spelling for his company.
Dad says I met Dr. von Braun and his wife... I don't remember them. I do remember meeting Gus Grissom and Ed White... it was less than a year before they died.
Gus was kinda grouchy, but Ed made me laugh.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 05:28 PM (w7b6u)
99
My question is similar to Stace's, except my daughter is only nine.... what hurts me is that as five year old, she was scared for her daddy on that day, (I'm a New York City cop who was there that day...) and would ask for weeks afterward, when she saw a plane, if that one was going to crash also... BTY, I'll see it in Orange County, (where the real 'Copland' is supposed to be) where we consistently, and overwhelmingly vote Republican.
Posted by: at April 29, 2006 05:30 PM (Ffvoi)
100
I remember from the book that lots of German scientists were "recruited" from the U.S. government immediately after the surrender of Germany during WWII.
The author, Michener, showed how both America and Russia (Soviet Union) knew exactly the path to super-powerdom -- technology, especially in the fields of nuclear weaponry and space exploration.
Anyway, those German scientists and their families seemed to assimilate well in Alabama, according to the book.
I always wondered how true the book was to the actual facts and history of the early race into outer-space.
------------------------
The author, Michener, showed how both America and Russia (Soviet Union) knew exactly the path to super-powerdom -- technology, especially in the fields of nuclear weaponry and space exploration.
Anyway, those German scientists and their families seemed to assimilate well in Alabama, according to the book.
I always wondered how true the book was to the actual facts and history of the early race into outer-space.
------------------------
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 05:33 PM (teQWf)
101
I wouldn't take a nice year old to see this, particularly with your connections to it.
Just my thoughts. I have two daughters... if they were this young I would have seen it first, and then said "not now".
Just my thoughts. I have two daughters... if they were this young I would have seen it first, and then said "not now".
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 05:35 PM (w7b6u)
102
Yeah, lauraw, that thread is huge over at DU.
But don't question their patriotism.
They're just happy that the film "celebrated" diversity. Sheesh.
Yep. Tough, Smart.
But don't question their patriotism.
They're just happy that the film "celebrated" diversity. Sheesh.
Yep. Tough, Smart.
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 05:36 PM (teQWf)
103
Thanks Dave...appreciate the advice....
Posted by: at April 29, 2006 05:37 PM (Ffvoi)
104
Bart, after about 25 launch crashes at Canaveral, von Braun and his team convinced NASA to use the Redstone to get Shepard up. He had a bunch of Germans with him... they designed Apollo.
God that brings back some memories.
God that brings back some memories.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 05:38 PM (w7b6u)
105
NY cop,
first of all, thanks.
second, just my opinion, having daughters and all. it's a little much I think for someone that young.
first of all, thanks.
second, just my opinion, having daughters and all. it's a little much I think for someone that young.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 29, 2006 05:40 PM (w7b6u)
106
Bart - yes, that was Operation Paperclip. You can read all about it at Wikipedia. There's a funny song or something that starts with a few spoken words saying this song is about "that great American *sudden switch to heavy German accent* Wernher von Braun!"
(Yes, there is an H in Wernher.)
(Yes, there is an H in Wernher.)
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 29, 2006 05:49 PM (l+FwE)
107
That is amazing. The achievements in technology and the bravery to test that technology in the '50s is simply awesome.
Can you believe this history isn't taught in schools? I was in the 6th grade when the space shuttle Columbia completed its first mission on April 12, 1981. The teacher hardly talked about it in class.
I learned more from Michener's novel
about the space program than I did in school.
(Sorry for the OT comments.)
Can you believe this history isn't taught in schools? I was in the 6th grade when the space shuttle Columbia completed its first mission on April 12, 1981. The teacher hardly talked about it in class.
I learned more from Michener's novel
about the space program than I did in school.
(Sorry for the OT comments.)
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 05:54 PM (teQWf)
108
My question is similar to Stace's, except my daughter is only nine....
Well I also have a 9 yr old daughter and do not plan to take her to the movie. I believe she is too young to truly digest the entire subject matter at this age.
Well I also have a 9 yr old daughter and do not plan to take her to the movie. I believe she is too young to truly digest the entire subject matter at this age.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 06:02 PM (HEjoD)
109
My review, for those who might be interested. Actually, it's more of an essay on 9/11 in general and what the movie meant to me, not so much a review of the movie itself.
I do have some specific reactions to/comments on the movie that didn't really fit into the essay. I'm working on those now.
I do have some specific reactions to/comments on the movie that didn't really fit into the essay. I'm working on those now.
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 29, 2006 06:02 PM (l+FwE)
110
I've got mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it was well-made and, I imagine, fairly realistic. On the other, it felt like a movie and was, therefore, pretty underwhelming. If I didn't remember that day, or if I were a kid who hadn't been alive at the time, I don't think it would have affected me too much at all. The video that Allah linked at the top of the thread was much more powerful.
That having been said, the movie made me think about something I'd never really considered before. It essentially plays out in real time; that is, the events took about as long to unfold as they do in the film. What struck me was just how quickly the people on the flight got on their phones, learned what had happened on the other hijacked flights, and made the decision to storm the cockpit. The normal human reaction in any dangerous situation is to play for time in the hope that somehow it will be resolved without your having to put yourself at risk any more than necessary. I'd always imagined the passengers having far more time to deliberate on such an important decision, but they didn't.
I wonder if that's why the German guy was portrayed the way he was; was his ordinary impulse not to rock the boat supposed to be in contrast to the extraordinary reaction of those who who calmly called home, tied up their loose ends, and did what needed to be done?
That having been said, the movie made me think about something I'd never really considered before. It essentially plays out in real time; that is, the events took about as long to unfold as they do in the film. What struck me was just how quickly the people on the flight got on their phones, learned what had happened on the other hijacked flights, and made the decision to storm the cockpit. The normal human reaction in any dangerous situation is to play for time in the hope that somehow it will be resolved without your having to put yourself at risk any more than necessary. I'd always imagined the passengers having far more time to deliberate on such an important decision, but they didn't.
I wonder if that's why the German guy was portrayed the way he was; was his ordinary impulse not to rock the boat supposed to be in contrast to the extraordinary reaction of those who who calmly called home, tied up their loose ends, and did what needed to be done?
Posted by: Andrew at April 29, 2006 06:30 PM (GnZn+)
111
I had a thought after 9/11 that OBL just ended the effective use of hi-jacking airplanes as a terrorist tactic. If this movie is seen by as many people as it should be, it will mean the end of that tactic. Every hi-jacking will end exactly this way.
We have to fight back any way we can.
We have to fight back any way we can.
Posted by: Randy at April 29, 2006 06:35 PM (njLsB)
112
Mrs. Peel....Wow I whole heartedly agree with your references from "Second Hand Lions"
I too have thought much about that morning and what I was doing... I then lived just outside L.A. in a burb but directly in the path of outbound flights from LAX...the dead air space will remain emblazened in my brain forever...I saw the planes hit and the towers fall but the dead air space was tangible evidence that my country was at war and brought home the reality of what had happened in NYC and D.C.....and the first time I heard a Military Copter in the distance during that time, my heart stopped and I broke out in a sweat looking for my children and wondering how I would protect them thinking another attack was upon us....AND to my immense relief I saw it was a U.S. military copter.
I know many people that believe essentially we still live in a 9/10 world and have never come to grips that 9/11 was another wake up call in a long list. My heart grieves that the general public is not listening and that it will take not another but more than one more 9/11 type events to make them true believers that our country is and has been at war for many years.
I too have thought much about that morning and what I was doing... I then lived just outside L.A. in a burb but directly in the path of outbound flights from LAX...the dead air space will remain emblazened in my brain forever...I saw the planes hit and the towers fall but the dead air space was tangible evidence that my country was at war and brought home the reality of what had happened in NYC and D.C.....and the first time I heard a Military Copter in the distance during that time, my heart stopped and I broke out in a sweat looking for my children and wondering how I would protect them thinking another attack was upon us....AND to my immense relief I saw it was a U.S. military copter.
I know many people that believe essentially we still live in a 9/10 world and have never come to grips that 9/11 was another wake up call in a long list. My heart grieves that the general public is not listening and that it will take not another but more than one more 9/11 type events to make them true believers that our country is and has been at war for many years.
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 06:35 PM (HEjoD)
113
Just got back from the movie here in Norfolk, Virginia.
When the passengers finally started the charge down the aisle, applause erupted from somewhere behind us. I joined in.
Of course, this is a rather military town, thankyewverrmuch, if there were moonbats present they would know to keep drivel to themselves. Something about headquartering the Atlantic Fleet.
We should understand that everything that happened onboard the plane is something that writers would have to speculate about with the exception of those phone calls that were recorded that fateful day. Keyword, "writers" eh? Add directors and actors and actresses and ... well. Still all in all not as bad as Hollywood could have done things.
Reenactment of what occurred in various Air Traffic Control and FAA facilities was likely close to right on the money, take anything depicted as the military with a grain of salt, though. Doubtful they would allow interviews or word for words on that subject. Doubtful anyone with firsthand knowledge concerning what went on "under the mountain" would give 'em, either. NORAD people do not talk.
Tremendous example of real world leadership in the FAA man who singlehandedly ordered all aircraft grounded, all incoming from anywhere turned around without the typical appeal to higher-ups for permission nor approval. That's what ah'm talkin' about. We need more real men like that in charge of things today. He saw, he understood and he acted. Just like the first Air Traffic Controller who told his superior, "I heard it in my ear, I heard it in my ear!" This man knew what he heard and was confident about what he heard. Others go and work up tape analysis, which is good to do, but slow when time is of the essence.
Just noticing the few among the many. Not all were floundering that day. Not hardly. You can never prepare for something like what happened that day, not in the way of rehearsals and drills. The way you prepare for the unexpected goes deep down into the heart and soul of the individual, some get it and some don't.
There is a written statement at the end of the movie that purports something I found troubling at first and then insteresting upon further reflection. They say that the president authorized shootdowns some time after the initial plane hits but that military commanders didn't go ahead with the authorization out of fear that civilian airliners or the like might get shot down as mistakes. Or something to that effect. So maybe the Commander in Chief isn't really the Commander in Chief, maybe the movie writers were at play, or maybe the Commanders invoked the UCMJ concerning moral choices on that day. I prefer the latter.
Just one more comment, as my wife and I were leaving, I heard yet another person refer to 911 as a tragedy.
Heard that on 9/11 and for days afterword, too.
"Tragedy"
The events of 9/11 were not a tragedy, they were an atrocity.
How do you tell the difference?
The proper response to a tragedy is grief.
The proper response to an atrocity is rage.
You can't pray to a loving God and ask Him to help you kill innocent people. Therefore whatever god these men were praying to ain't my God.
God Bless the USA
.
When the passengers finally started the charge down the aisle, applause erupted from somewhere behind us. I joined in.
Of course, this is a rather military town, thankyewverrmuch, if there were moonbats present they would know to keep drivel to themselves. Something about headquartering the Atlantic Fleet.
We should understand that everything that happened onboard the plane is something that writers would have to speculate about with the exception of those phone calls that were recorded that fateful day. Keyword, "writers" eh? Add directors and actors and actresses and ... well. Still all in all not as bad as Hollywood could have done things.
Reenactment of what occurred in various Air Traffic Control and FAA facilities was likely close to right on the money, take anything depicted as the military with a grain of salt, though. Doubtful they would allow interviews or word for words on that subject. Doubtful anyone with firsthand knowledge concerning what went on "under the mountain" would give 'em, either. NORAD people do not talk.
Tremendous example of real world leadership in the FAA man who singlehandedly ordered all aircraft grounded, all incoming from anywhere turned around without the typical appeal to higher-ups for permission nor approval. That's what ah'm talkin' about. We need more real men like that in charge of things today. He saw, he understood and he acted. Just like the first Air Traffic Controller who told his superior, "I heard it in my ear, I heard it in my ear!" This man knew what he heard and was confident about what he heard. Others go and work up tape analysis, which is good to do, but slow when time is of the essence.
Just noticing the few among the many. Not all were floundering that day. Not hardly. You can never prepare for something like what happened that day, not in the way of rehearsals and drills. The way you prepare for the unexpected goes deep down into the heart and soul of the individual, some get it and some don't.
There is a written statement at the end of the movie that purports something I found troubling at first and then insteresting upon further reflection. They say that the president authorized shootdowns some time after the initial plane hits but that military commanders didn't go ahead with the authorization out of fear that civilian airliners or the like might get shot down as mistakes. Or something to that effect. So maybe the Commander in Chief isn't really the Commander in Chief, maybe the movie writers were at play, or maybe the Commanders invoked the UCMJ concerning moral choices on that day. I prefer the latter.
Just one more comment, as my wife and I were leaving, I heard yet another person refer to 911 as a tragedy.
Heard that on 9/11 and for days afterword, too.
"Tragedy"
The events of 9/11 were not a tragedy, they were an atrocity.
How do you tell the difference?
The proper response to a tragedy is grief.
The proper response to an atrocity is rage.
You can't pray to a loving God and ask Him to help you kill innocent people. Therefore whatever god these men were praying to ain't my God.
God Bless the USA
.
Posted by: B52 SAC geezer at April 29, 2006 06:39 PM (L/jMX)
114
bodaciousflirt, yeah, my parents lived near an airport (beneath the inbound flight path) at the time, and I remember my mom saying she kept waking up in the mornings after 9/11 because she didn't hear the planes.
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 29, 2006 06:42 PM (l+FwE)
115
I read your review, Mrs. P.
I read all of the reviews.
If I ever find myself on a plane that gets hijacked by Islamofascits (who only know how to fly, not land), I hope my fellow passengers are the peeps from AoS.
I read all of the reviews.
If I ever find myself on a plane that gets hijacked by Islamofascits (who only know how to fly, not land), I hope my fellow passengers are the peeps from AoS.
Posted by: Bart at April 29, 2006 07:07 PM (8dCeQ)
116
followup: United 93: now with comments about the actual movie.
(Sorry about the link-whoring, ace.)
(Sorry about the link-whoring, ace.)
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 29, 2006 07:09 PM (l+FwE)
117
If I ever find myself on a plane that gets hijacked by Islamofascits (who only know how to fly, not land), I hope my fellow passengers are the peeps from AoS.
Bart....I agree with you 150%
Bart....I agree with you 150%
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 29, 2006 07:15 PM (HEjoD)
118
Whoa. Mrs. Peel. Hotcha! Thought you were an "older woman." Yowza.
Btw, that was me at 3:58. Brain fart on the signature.
Btw, that was me at 3:58. Brain fart on the signature.
Posted by: CraigC at April 29, 2006 07:44 PM (+7sBO)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 29, 2006 07:51 PM (qti15)
120
If I ever find myself on a plane that gets hijacked by Islamofascits (who only know how to fly, not land), I hope my fellow passengers are the peeps from AoS.
Actually, my first choice for fellow passengers would probably be a fully-equipped Delta Force team and a qualifed commercial pilot with military experience. No offense, guys.
I suspect Ace went to see this today and subsequently crawled under the influence and remains there.
Or perhaps some Boston punk mouthed off, and Ace is trying to figure out how to blog from jail. He'll be hitting us up for bail money pretty soon. Me, I want to see X-rays of the guy's jaw before I send him any.
Actually, my first choice for fellow passengers would probably be a fully-equipped Delta Force team and a qualifed commercial pilot with military experience. No offense, guys.
I suspect Ace went to see this today and subsequently crawled under the influence and remains there.
Or perhaps some Boston punk mouthed off, and Ace is trying to figure out how to blog from jail. He'll be hitting us up for bail money pretty soon. Me, I want to see X-rays of the guy's jaw before I send him any.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 29, 2006 07:54 PM (kJfu0)
121
Actually, Allah is not God. That's a loose, and inaccurate translation. At least, Allah is not the God of Jews and Christians. Allah was the pagan moon god Sin, corresponding to the Babylonian god Baal, and just one of 360 gods worshipped in Mecca; he was also the deity worshipped by Mohammed's tribe. While the moon god's name was Sin, his title was Al-illah, "the deity". Ilah was originally a phase of the moon god. Mohammed's family were the caretakers of the Kabbah, and when he arose to power, Mohammed naturally made his tribe's deity the supreme deity. Allah originally had three daughters: Lat, Uzza, and Manat. They are the three deities mentioned in the Qu'ran's "Satanic verses" who co-reigned with Allah. His wife was the goddess of the sun. Additonally, the Hebrews were warned against worshipping the stars, the moon and the sun in the book of Deuteronomy. Whenever the Hebrews fell into idolatry, it was most often the god Baal they worshipped.
The Moslem symbol of the crescent moon predates Islam, as does the name Allah, and is found in various archeological digs in the Middle East, on idols, tablets, shrines, etc. The Islamic symbol of the crescent moon and star is just a continuation of a pagan religion.
Allah may be a god, but he is not THE God.
The Moslem symbol of the crescent moon predates Islam, as does the name Allah, and is found in various archeological digs in the Middle East, on idols, tablets, shrines, etc. The Islamic symbol of the crescent moon and star is just a continuation of a pagan religion.
Allah may be a god, but he is not THE God.
Posted by: at April 29, 2006 08:26 PM (RLfZh)
122
The theatre I saw this in today ran the Vault energy drink ad, the one with the scarecrow chasing off hippies, right before the feature. There were guffaws in the audience. I think it set the tone for any moonbats in the crowd.
I have no fingernails left on either hand after seeing this film. And there's still a knot in my gut. It's that intense.
I have no fingernails left on either hand after seeing this film. And there's still a knot in my gut. It's that intense.
Posted by: Dex in TX at April 29, 2006 08:33 PM (18EkZ)
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Who posted at April 30, 2006 01:26 AM?
That is fascinating. I would like to know your source so I could learn some more about that.
That is fascinating. I would like to know your source so I could learn some more about that.
Posted by: matterson at April 29, 2006 08:37 PM (JEq/F)
124
I'm pleased to have no need to go through my angry years again. My anger has already come over me, changed me, and passed. With apologies for quoting a character of Kevin Costner, "I have become what I beheld and am content that I have done right." I'm already at the perfect place from which to fight a war against the people who have submitted to "allah." If someone were to hand me a clipboard, saying, "This is written authorization to destroy islam by killing all muslims," I'd sign it. I feel despondent when I reflect on the impossibility of my really being the man who calmly ended submission to "allah" by just signing for the death of the 1,100,000,000 who have submitted to him. I imagine, in the aftermath, someone crying out, "You've surpassed Osama, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot." I'd say, "And mohammed. They shouldn't have expected to build a lasting reputation by killing people."
Posted by: Kralizec at April 29, 2006 09:21 PM (m5x6c)
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My humble review.
It's a tremendous film. You all should definitely go see it.
It's even more tremendous because most of the ATC and military personnel play themselves. And the passengers were given dossiers on the people they were to portray (and contact information for their families and friends) and basically IMPROVISED all of their scenes. It's a bold cinematic choice, and it's perfect.
It's not a feel-good movie. It's distilled anger and pain. But it's a catharsis worth enduring.
Phenomenal. Brilliant. And more.
It's a tremendous film. You all should definitely go see it.
It's even more tremendous because most of the ATC and military personnel play themselves. And the passengers were given dossiers on the people they were to portray (and contact information for their families and friends) and basically IMPROVISED all of their scenes. It's a bold cinematic choice, and it's perfect.
It's not a feel-good movie. It's distilled anger and pain. But it's a catharsis worth enduring.
Phenomenal. Brilliant. And more.
Posted by: marchand chronicles at April 29, 2006 09:57 PM (xd1B4)
126
My 14 year old son is interested in going to see this movie with me. I don't usually allow him to see R rated material. This, somehow, seems different to me.
As a military family stationed overseas when 9/11 happened, we were restricted from movement while the authorities determined if it was safe to leave the base to return to our home. During that time, we watched the events unfold and wondered if our base were a safe place to be... if the U.S. could get hit, then certainly the inferior country we were in couldn't protect us! My son was just 9 then, and he coped with the uncertainty better than many adults.
For those who have seen the movie, what is your opinion as to a young teen seeing it?
Thanks in advance.
As a military family stationed overseas when 9/11 happened, we were restricted from movement while the authorities determined if it was safe to leave the base to return to our home. During that time, we watched the events unfold and wondered if our base were a safe place to be... if the U.S. could get hit, then certainly the inferior country we were in couldn't protect us! My son was just 9 then, and he coped with the uncertainty better than many adults.
For those who have seen the movie, what is your opinion as to a young teen seeing it?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: US Navy Wife at April 29, 2006 11:17 PM (q7cOD)
127
Nevermind. I just read previous comments and I see where Stace has the same idea and has already received advice. I'll take hers! ;-)
Posted by: US Navy Wife at April 29, 2006 11:25 PM (q7cOD)
128
B52 SAC geezer
As an English teacher, I thank you for pointing out the difference between "tragedy" and "atrocity."
May I add that strictly speaking, the protagonist of a tragedy bears some responsibility for the situation, the "tragic flaw." I REFUSE to use the word "tragedy" for the events of 9/11 because NONE of them were America's fault.
As an English teacher, I thank you for pointing out the difference between "tragedy" and "atrocity."
May I add that strictly speaking, the protagonist of a tragedy bears some responsibility for the situation, the "tragic flaw." I REFUSE to use the word "tragedy" for the events of 9/11 because NONE of them were America's fault.
Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at April 30, 2006 02:21 AM (2w5h5)
129
Tex said: Recently I attended a local Lutheran service, where for no good reason the soft man behind the pulpit lectured for several minutes on the wages of sin, in reference to 9/11. He specifically asked us to consider the possibility that 9/11 was a kind of divine retribution for our own sins; God's way of telling us to seek forgiveness.
Well, my Lutheran Pastors so far have not trumpeted their political opinions--I'm so glad too! It would break my heart to find out they were lefties! I actually am 90% sure they're righties, (one's son in in the military), but I don't know for sure.....
I can't wait to see the movie, I better hydrate myself first, tho.
Well, my Lutheran Pastors so far have not trumpeted their political opinions--I'm so glad too! It would break my heart to find out they were lefties! I actually am 90% sure they're righties, (one's son in in the military), but I don't know for sure.....
I can't wait to see the movie, I better hydrate myself first, tho.
Posted by: Ruth at April 30, 2006 03:29 AM (DTwYZ)
130
Thanks to all who gave their review here. You convinced me to sit through it. I have not set foot in a movie theater in over 20 years and will probably never go again. I had planned to just buy a ticket to show my support and leave it at that. You all have convinced me that I should go ahead and watch it. Guess I'll go later today with my 25 year old son. He will probably be in better shape to drive home than I will be.
Posted by: cfo mom at April 30, 2006 04:28 AM (4uDR4)
131
O boy! The lefty smear campaign is rolling! All of a sudden "fact" seems to matter. Don't they know there's bloggers out there?
Posted by: GordoMuskegon at April 30, 2006 04:50 AM (xNmdE)
Posted by: GordoMuskegon at April 30, 2006 04:53 AM (xNmdE)
133
On "Allah" vs. "God": I don't think it's necessarily an easy question about whether "Allah" means "God" or whether it's a name for God (or for a god). When a society believes there is only one God, the distinction between a general term and a specific name is often lost.
I do think the question about whether Arabs speak of Roman allahs and Greek allahs is a good one, and the answer given -- that the term for "god" for those gods would come from the Roman or Greek language -- is a dodge. Obviously in English we can speak of God and we can speak of Roman gods, Greek gods, etc. "Allah" is not used in that manner, so it would tend to indicate that it is not a generic term in the same sense that the English word "god" is.
On the other hand, yes, "Allah" is accepted by Arab Christians and others as a term for "God". This may be due to the general acknowledgement among Islam, Christianity, and Judaism that they all worship the same God, even if in very flawed ways.
To me, though, I noticed the same thing: "Allah" was left untranslated almost all the time before 9/11. Afterwards, it was almost always translated as "God". To me, this was a conscious attempt by the media to make Islam seem more familiar and thus more acceptable to the American public. While the sentiment was good, to me it feels a little dishonest, especially since the vast majority of English-speaking Muslims use "Allah" and not "God" when discussing him in English. This is particularly true of radical Muslims. If the 9/11 hijackers were here to translate their own words into English for the movie, do you think they'd translate "Allah" as "God" or leave it untranslated? I don't even think that would be a matter for debate, so the movie is not being honest in that regard.
Having said that, I haven't seen the movie, and that's just one small part of it, and I suspect the filmmakers may simply not have put that much thought into it. Judging by the extreme reactions many people are having to the movie, it doesn't seem as if they did a great whitewash job if that was their intention.
I do think the question about whether Arabs speak of Roman allahs and Greek allahs is a good one, and the answer given -- that the term for "god" for those gods would come from the Roman or Greek language -- is a dodge. Obviously in English we can speak of God and we can speak of Roman gods, Greek gods, etc. "Allah" is not used in that manner, so it would tend to indicate that it is not a generic term in the same sense that the English word "god" is.
On the other hand, yes, "Allah" is accepted by Arab Christians and others as a term for "God". This may be due to the general acknowledgement among Islam, Christianity, and Judaism that they all worship the same God, even if in very flawed ways.
To me, though, I noticed the same thing: "Allah" was left untranslated almost all the time before 9/11. Afterwards, it was almost always translated as "God". To me, this was a conscious attempt by the media to make Islam seem more familiar and thus more acceptable to the American public. While the sentiment was good, to me it feels a little dishonest, especially since the vast majority of English-speaking Muslims use "Allah" and not "God" when discussing him in English. This is particularly true of radical Muslims. If the 9/11 hijackers were here to translate their own words into English for the movie, do you think they'd translate "Allah" as "God" or leave it untranslated? I don't even think that would be a matter for debate, so the movie is not being honest in that regard.
Having said that, I haven't seen the movie, and that's just one small part of it, and I suspect the filmmakers may simply not have put that much thought into it. Judging by the extreme reactions many people are having to the movie, it doesn't seem as if they did a great whitewash job if that was their intention.
Posted by: Bob at April 30, 2006 05:08 AM (a4h/g)
134
I saw it last night. Half way through, a headless chicken started flapping around and squawking:
"Dolts! This is all Bush's fault. Don't you know his poll numbers are below 33%? Get your heads out of Bush's ass... read and learn something... Morons! You can all blow me!"
So the rest of us chased him down and when we finally caught him, we coated him with flour and fried him up in a pan. Then we sat down and watched the rest of the movie.
"Dolts! This is all Bush's fault. Don't you know his poll numbers are below 33%? Get your heads out of Bush's ass... read and learn something... Morons! You can all blow me!"
So the rest of us chased him down and when we finally caught him, we coated him with flour and fried him up in a pan. Then we sat down and watched the rest of the movie.
Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2006 05:31 AM (we8HZ)
135
I just thought the tone of this thread was awful somber and could use a little levity.
Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2006 05:33 AM (we8HZ)
136
OK, I can buy a chicken talking, but a headless one?
Posted by: at April 30, 2006 05:38 AM (tXbcg)
137
don't worry ace, they'll pay for their suffering.
I'm convinced a film documenting the destruction of fallujah by u.s. marines will make you weep into your hanky; because you're humane, ace. I just know it.
I'm convinced a film documenting the destruction of fallujah by u.s. marines will make you weep into your hanky; because you're humane, ace. I just know it.
Posted by: ergastularius at April 30, 2006 05:41 AM (7nrVi)
138
Bob,
When making a movie, every single frame and every single detail matters. As for white washing, the heavy handed Moore/Stone propaganda machine can't work in the new day of the blogosphere, so things are more nuanced.
Allah was translated as God to make the point that both the terrorists and the those they were terrorizing were asking the same "God" to help them. What the film failed to say is that it was in the name of their God, Allah, that the innocents were being murdered.
IMO "United 93" shouldn't be put into the pro-America, anti-terrorist column and we'll have to wait for someone else to make that movie.
When making a movie, every single frame and every single detail matters. As for white washing, the heavy handed Moore/Stone propaganda machine can't work in the new day of the blogosphere, so things are more nuanced.
Allah was translated as God to make the point that both the terrorists and the those they were terrorizing were asking the same "God" to help them. What the film failed to say is that it was in the name of their God, Allah, that the innocents were being murdered.
IMO "United 93" shouldn't be put into the pro-America, anti-terrorist column and we'll have to wait for someone else to make that movie.
Posted by: erp at April 30, 2006 05:48 AM (gMNyI)
139
OK, I can buy a chicken talking, but a headless one?
OK, you got me: I forgot to mention that the headless chicken had a pair of lips grafted on to his gaping esophageal tract.
OK, you got me: I forgot to mention that the headless chicken had a pair of lips grafted on to his gaping esophageal tract.
Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2006 05:59 AM (we8HZ)
140
erp - I see your point, but at the same time, I can't imagine how anyone could not realize that the terrorists were acting in the name of Allah. I thought the cut between them and the passenger who was also praying served to underline the difference between faith and fanaticism. (Though it disgusted me at first, because I would also be praying in that situation, and I hate to think I have anything, no matter how minor, in common with vicious cowardly murderers.)
But then, I came to the movie with some preconceived notions regarding the Religion of Peace (TM)...
Did anyone else notice the scene in the airport when one hijacker, dark and somber, paused for a moment in front of a garish advertisement featuring a scantily-clad woman? To me, that juxtaposition recalled the sort of pronouncements mullahs make about the evils of our society.
But then, I came to the movie with some preconceived notions regarding the Religion of Peace (TM)...
Did anyone else notice the scene in the airport when one hijacker, dark and somber, paused for a moment in front of a garish advertisement featuring a scantily-clad woman? To me, that juxtaposition recalled the sort of pronouncements mullahs make about the evils of our society.
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 30, 2006 06:23 AM (l+FwE)
141
I was eight years old in 1941. My sister came down to Sunday breakfast and told us about the attack on Pearl. We had no TV, but Movietone News brought the war to us every Saturday morning. In those days Hollywood and the newspapers were on our side, but the news was pretty grim, and not at all pleasant to watch. After seing the news we were quite ready to see John Wayne taking it to the bad guys.
One of my most powerful memories from those days was reading "Guadalcanal Diary," by a guy who endured it.
I was ten by the time the war in the Pacific turned around, and eleven on D-Day. I delivered newpapers the last couple of years of the war, so I had a good chance to read all about it as it happened.
All this is by way of saying, "Take your kids! Take all of them. They are not too young, and you owe it to them."
The only thing wrong is that this movie wasn't put in production in January 2002.
One of my most powerful memories from those days was reading "Guadalcanal Diary," by a guy who endured it.
I was ten by the time the war in the Pacific turned around, and eleven on D-Day. I delivered newpapers the last couple of years of the war, so I had a good chance to read all about it as it happened.
All this is by way of saying, "Take your kids! Take all of them. They are not too young, and you owe it to them."
The only thing wrong is that this movie wasn't put in production in January 2002.
Posted by: JimT at April 30, 2006 06:33 AM (TQb+K)
142
On the use of "god" and "allah" interchanged, we note that some refer to "Arab Christians" in rationalisation of the act.
Now we speculate on the distinct possibility that the fine islamic art of dhimmitude may direct explicitly or have directed explicitly how second class citizens forced to live and worship under tyrannical conditions must speak.
"PC" speech is not a present-day invention.
Just a thought.
.
Now we speculate on the distinct possibility that the fine islamic art of dhimmitude may direct explicitly or have directed explicitly how second class citizens forced to live and worship under tyrannical conditions must speak.
"PC" speech is not a present-day invention.
Just a thought.
.
Posted by: B52 SAC geezer at April 30, 2006 06:40 AM (L/jMX)
143
Initially I was afraid they would make a hash of this film, or somehow turn it into a sympathy-for-terrorists piece of liberalist insulting crap. (Munich anyone?)
Now I know they've done a fine job.
I do think this country needs serious reminding and needs to see it.
I will not see it, because 9/11 is alive in my mind every single day - I need no reminders. And because it was personal. Because I live in the northeast and that was our day. My friend and loved ones were in it.
I doubt I could ever bring myself to watch it. But I'm grateful that they've made the film.
Now I know they've done a fine job.
I do think this country needs serious reminding and needs to see it.
I will not see it, because 9/11 is alive in my mind every single day - I need no reminders. And because it was personal. Because I live in the northeast and that was our day. My friend and loved ones were in it.
I doubt I could ever bring myself to watch it. But I'm grateful that they've made the film.
Posted by: Laura at April 30, 2006 07:42 AM (WNoQi)
144
correction, that should have read friends and loved ones
Posted by: Laura at April 30, 2006 07:43 AM (WNoQi)
145
Arab isn't interchangeable with Moslem. There are many Moslems who aren't Arabs. Iranians are Persians and millions of Moslems are Asian and African and there used to be many Christian and Jewish Arabs, but many either left Moslem countries or were murdered.
Just read that women in Saudi Arabia are making some gains and I predict that women will lead the way to Islamic reform. Pray to the God of your choice that they succeed and soon.
Just read that women in Saudi Arabia are making some gains and I predict that women will lead the way to Islamic reform. Pray to the God of your choice that they succeed and soon.
Posted by: erp at April 30, 2006 07:47 AM (gMNyI)
146
US Navy Mom,
I think there's a big gap between a 9 year old daughter and a 14 year old son. You know your boy, I think some 14 year old kids could handle this... some not. I would certainly talk with him after he sees it if you decide to go ahead.
It's not gory but it is brutal, and it's something that happened (some of the narrative obviously is speculation).
I think there's a big gap between a 9 year old daughter and a 14 year old son. You know your boy, I think some 14 year old kids could handle this... some not. I would certainly talk with him after he sees it if you decide to go ahead.
It's not gory but it is brutal, and it's something that happened (some of the narrative obviously is speculation).
Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 30, 2006 08:01 AM (xHc8T)
147
If ACE doesn't post anything today the terrorists win.
Posted by: Birkel at April 30, 2006 08:06 AM (DSGrX)
148
My wife and I went to see the movie last night at the Battery Park Regal, which as some may know, is just across the street from the WTC site. To get there from the PATH station, you have to walk next to and over the actual WTC site. We are no strangers to that view, as we lived in Battery Park city with a view of the site from October 2002 until September 2004. Let's just say that I've spent a lot of time thinking of 9/11, much of it frankly in a murderous, slow-burn rage.
The theatre was only about half full, and was pretty quiet even through the trailers. Once the actual movie started, it was dead silent.
The production was very well done and the attention to detail was fantastic, but at first I found that I wasn't really all that affected - at least no more so than during a normal popcorn-thriller. That all changed when they showed the second plane slamming into the tower - all the old feelings came right back and from then on I was in the movie.
I won't try to cover the ground that's been covered so well above, but will say that for me the hardest thing was knowing how it was going to end, and yet on some level I could not quite suppress, hoping that the passengers might pul it off - that they might be able to defeat the terrorists and save the plane. Stupid, huh?
SPOILAGE BELOW!!
I also liked that the only guy who tried to sell out the passengers was the euro-weenie who wanted everyone just to go along with the terrorists.
The theatre was only about half full, and was pretty quiet even through the trailers. Once the actual movie started, it was dead silent.
The production was very well done and the attention to detail was fantastic, but at first I found that I wasn't really all that affected - at least no more so than during a normal popcorn-thriller. That all changed when they showed the second plane slamming into the tower - all the old feelings came right back and from then on I was in the movie.
I won't try to cover the ground that's been covered so well above, but will say that for me the hardest thing was knowing how it was going to end, and yet on some level I could not quite suppress, hoping that the passengers might pul it off - that they might be able to defeat the terrorists and save the plane. Stupid, huh?
SPOILAGE BELOW!!
I also liked that the only guy who tried to sell out the passengers was the euro-weenie who wanted everyone just to go along with the terrorists.
Posted by: holdfast at April 30, 2006 08:23 AM (Gzb30)
149
On the use of "god" and "allah" interchanged, we note that some refer to "Arab Christians" in rationalisation of the act.
If you are referring to me (since I brought up the Coptic angle), I'm not offering rationalization...I'm offering a cold hard fact. Christians who speak Arabic don't use a seperate word to distinguish Islamic "God" from Christian "God". Both are called Allah. Have been for centuries.
You don't have to like it, but that's linguistics for you.
If you are referring to me (since I brought up the Coptic angle), I'm not offering rationalization...I'm offering a cold hard fact. Christians who speak Arabic don't use a seperate word to distinguish Islamic "God" from Christian "God". Both are called Allah. Have been for centuries.
You don't have to like it, but that's linguistics for you.
Posted by: cheshirecat at April 30, 2006 08:58 AM (/cN9W)
150
My comment on Allah/God became kind of long, so I posted it on my blog. For whatever it may be worth.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 30, 2006 09:24 AM (Q8UK2)
151
US Navy Mom,
There's also a bit of difference between military brats and civilian ones, although how much of a difference depends upon the situation. I was an Army brat from birth to about age 13; I had quite a different outlook on life and our role in it than the teens who grew up in the states.
There's also a bit of difference between military brats and civilian ones, although how much of a difference depends upon the situation. I was an Army brat from birth to about age 13; I had quite a different outlook on life and our role in it than the teens who grew up in the states.
Posted by: Anachronda at April 30, 2006 09:33 AM (jnCzJ)
152
The opening weekend estimates for United 93
1. RV -- $16.4m
2. UNITED 93 -- $11.6m
As I mentioned before, RV is getting lousy reviews by critics and moviegoers. 93 is getting rave reviews from both critics and moviegoers.
I dug up a few reviews that panned the film.
Here's one of them. Notice the disguised moonbattery and the not so disgiused tin-foil hat:
First off, this is not a history or a documentary. It is a fictional account that has a mild relationship to some true events that we know only the barest of details about.
From start to finish, the film made me cringe...what made this film _particularly_ depressing was the dawning reality, as I sat in the theatre overhearing comments from fellow movie-sufferers, that 90+% of Americans aren't going to see past the neatly packed message the film shoves down their throats.
Clearly, going by comments overheard while I was leaving, many people still have trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy. This film will do nothing to aid that, although I'm sure it will make a decent profit for the studios and feed the American desire to be a victim. In twenty years time, however, hopefully we can look back at the film and discuss exactly why and how such a trite propoganda peice came to be made. Given that Americans as a whole still have trouble with a realistic picture of WW1 & 2, I'm not about to hold my breath waiting.
If you want a film to go to in order to watch an audience, then I highly recommend United 93. Try it in several countries if you can - I'm looking forward to watching audiences in Europe and seeing how they react to it, assuming anyone is willing to show it there. If you want a film for anything else (other than how not to make a film, maybe) then go see something (anything!) else.
1. RV -- $16.4m
2. UNITED 93 -- $11.6m
As I mentioned before, RV is getting lousy reviews by critics and moviegoers. 93 is getting rave reviews from both critics and moviegoers.
I dug up a few reviews that panned the film.
Here's one of them. Notice the disguised moonbattery and the not so disgiused tin-foil hat:
First off, this is not a history or a documentary. It is a fictional account that has a mild relationship to some true events that we know only the barest of details about.
From start to finish, the film made me cringe...what made this film _particularly_ depressing was the dawning reality, as I sat in the theatre overhearing comments from fellow movie-sufferers, that 90+% of Americans aren't going to see past the neatly packed message the film shoves down their throats.
Clearly, going by comments overheard while I was leaving, many people still have trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy. This film will do nothing to aid that, although I'm sure it will make a decent profit for the studios and feed the American desire to be a victim. In twenty years time, however, hopefully we can look back at the film and discuss exactly why and how such a trite propoganda peice came to be made. Given that Americans as a whole still have trouble with a realistic picture of WW1 & 2, I'm not about to hold my breath waiting.
If you want a film to go to in order to watch an audience, then I highly recommend United 93. Try it in several countries if you can - I'm looking forward to watching audiences in Europe and seeing how they react to it, assuming anyone is willing to show it there. If you want a film for anything else (other than how not to make a film, maybe) then go see something (anything!) else.
Posted by: Bart at April 30, 2006 09:53 AM (sCGHS)
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Bart, I'm assuming you forgot about italics tags not persisting through multiple paragraphs, and that everything through the end was supposed to be italicized.
Posted by: Mrs. Peel at April 30, 2006 10:09 AM (l+FwE)
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Ya, Mrs P, but I didn't want to be like Slublog and make a redundant comment about my mistake.
, Slu.
, Slu.Posted by: Bart at April 30, 2006 10:26 AM (rnn/6)
155
More thoughts on the German guy, Christian Adams, here--I'm not comfortable calling him "Euroweenie" since the character was based on a real guy and we don't know how he really behaved when the chips were down.
Posted by: See-Dubya at April 30, 2006 11:03 AM (kJfu0)
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People go to movies for fun. Message films rarely do well unless they are religious. I don't mind morality in my movies, but most folks don't like that sort of thing.
Posted by: at April 30, 2006 11:03 AM (RA3GB)
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ruth: Well, my Lutheran Pastors so far have not trumpeted their political opinions
Lucky you.
I don't consider self-defense political, though. It's not a set of nanny-state propositions. It's more primal.
And it really sickened me at church, to see my neighbors turning themselves and their children against our primal needs. They were in effect flagellating themselves in church, as a way making token sacrifice and supplication to their deranged tormentors.
Pathetic.
And probably beyond reach.
April 30: The Moslem symbol of the crescent moon predates Islam, as does the name Allah...
Good to know. That's what we need. More of that, but in every Muslim dialect. We need whole encyclopedias of facts, figures and f'ems -- all targeted at breaking the confidence of Muslims in their sacred fetishes. The name of Allah, the Ramadan moon, black rock, martyr virgins, and on and on. We need to be punching every heretical, doubt-inducing thought into Muslim heads, 24x7, around the world. Absolutely saturate the airwaves and even the air. Global Muslim psyops. Drive them out of their wretched minds.
Now as for our own deluded flocks... [shakes head]
Lucky you.
I don't consider self-defense political, though. It's not a set of nanny-state propositions. It's more primal.
And it really sickened me at church, to see my neighbors turning themselves and their children against our primal needs. They were in effect flagellating themselves in church, as a way making token sacrifice and supplication to their deranged tormentors.
Pathetic.
And probably beyond reach.
April 30: The Moslem symbol of the crescent moon predates Islam, as does the name Allah...
Good to know. That's what we need. More of that, but in every Muslim dialect. We need whole encyclopedias of facts, figures and f'ems -- all targeted at breaking the confidence of Muslims in their sacred fetishes. The name of Allah, the Ramadan moon, black rock, martyr virgins, and on and on. We need to be punching every heretical, doubt-inducing thought into Muslim heads, 24x7, around the world. Absolutely saturate the airwaves and even the air. Global Muslim psyops. Drive them out of their wretched minds.
Now as for our own deluded flocks... [shakes head]
Posted by: tex at April 30, 2006 11:27 AM (JTZ4F)
158
Muslihoon, its worth a lot to me, and was very informative and useful.
And yes, both were images that Muhammad adapted for his religion he dreamed up in a cave.
And yes, both were images that Muhammad adapted for his religion he dreamed up in a cave.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 30, 2006 03:35 PM (1Vbso)
159
More thoughts on the German guy, Christian Adams, here--I'm not comfortable calling him "Euroweenie" since the character was based on a real guy and we don't know how he really behaved when the chips were down.
Fair enough - which is why I did not use the name, but in the movie, the character was a euro-weenie. I think everyone does (or should acknowledge) that there is still a certain amount of inference and artistic license involved. Fortunately the "muscle" hijackers in the movie were both (a) think and (b) not fluent in English, so his surrender-monkey tactics had no appreciable effect.
Fair enough - which is why I did not use the name, but in the movie, the character was a euro-weenie. I think everyone does (or should acknowledge) that there is still a certain amount of inference and artistic license involved. Fortunately the "muscle" hijackers in the movie were both (a) think and (b) not fluent in English, so his surrender-monkey tactics had no appreciable effect.
Posted by: holdfast at April 30, 2006 03:50 PM (Gzb30)
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I thought it was one fine film. We need a reminder of what happened to us on 9/11, and especially of the mentality of the "religious" madmen who are our sworn enemies. They would do it to us again in a heartbeat if they could.
Posted by: Redhand at April 30, 2006 04:19 PM (9HAsW)
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Thanks, Christopher Taylor! That meant a lot to me.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 30, 2006 05:28 PM (Q8UK2)
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Muslihoon, Your blog was very informative, but my question is, do you think the film makers deliberately translated Allah as God to deflect our anger?
Posted by: at April 30, 2006 05:36 PM (gMNyI)
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I would have to say yes. Using "Allah" would increase the already chasm-wide divide between the terrorists and the passengers clinging to faith. God vs. Allah, if you will. Perhaps they translated "Allah" as "God" to deflect our anger and to emphasize that although the terrorists and passengers were praying to God, one perverted religion (an understatement, really) while the latter appeal to God with true faith.
If the movie producers translated "Allah" as "God" to insert some equivalency between the terrorists' faith and the passengers' faith, I would have to condemn this in the strongest words possible.
As some said, for a movie that paid so much attention to detail, this had to have been an intentional choice. There's less room for them to claim ignorance.
If the movie producers translated "Allah" as "God" to insert some equivalency between the terrorists' faith and the passengers' faith, I would have to condemn this in the strongest words possible.
As some said, for a movie that paid so much attention to detail, this had to have been an intentional choice. There's less room for them to claim ignorance.
Posted by: Muslihoon at April 30, 2006 06:02 PM (Q8UK2)
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Somebdoy inform the chesire cat that dhimmitude is just a little bit older than three centuries.
From the Quran:
"5:78 Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith (in G-d and the Torah), by the tongue of David and of Jesus the
son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses."
There are other references in the Quran where "the God of the Jews" is referenced also, I invite you to do a bit of research if you are so inclined.
They know the difference even if you do not.
Heck, just read any of the recent diatribes from any of the Imams.
.
From the Quran:
"5:78 Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith (in G-d and the Torah), by the tongue of David and of Jesus the
son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses."
There are other references in the Quran where "the God of the Jews" is referenced also, I invite you to do a bit of research if you are so inclined.
They know the difference even if you do not.
Heck, just read any of the recent diatribes from any of the Imams.
.
Posted by: B52 geezer at April 30, 2006 08:04 PM (L/jMX)
165
Tex said:...my neighbors turning themselves and their children against our primal needs. They were in effect flagellating themselves in church, as a way making token sacrifice and supplication to their deranged tormentors.
Very pathetic indeed. I think I would have to go on a Church hunt to find one that's not full of such moonbattery.
Very pathetic indeed. I think I would have to go on a Church hunt to find one that's not full of such moonbattery.
Posted by: Ruth at May 01, 2006 02:44 AM (DTwYZ)
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"Actually, Allah is not God. That's a loose, and inaccurate translation. At least, Allah is not the God of Jews and Christians."
Yeah dude. And as far as Hindus are concerned Jesus Christ was just a carpenter that took early retirement.
Way to figure out there is more than one religion man.
Yeah dude. And as far as Hindus are concerned Jesus Christ was just a carpenter that took early retirement.
Way to figure out there is more than one religion man.
Posted by: Huff at May 01, 2006 03:13 AM (aOeXm)
167
"A harrowing movie about the Holocaust, directed in a naturalistic, matter-of-fact style,"
"The Grey Zone," directed by - the ugly, semi-retarded dude from "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" With Harvey Keitel. As an SS camp funcionary. And Tuturro. Tuturro! (Tutturro?)
"The Grey Zone," directed by - the ugly, semi-retarded dude from "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" With Harvey Keitel. As an SS camp funcionary. And Tuturro. Tuturro! (Tutturro?)
Posted by: Knemon at May 01, 2006 11:15 AM (a3KVd)
168
"English speaking Muslims use both words interchangably."
More to the point, Arabic speaking Christians use that word for (the Christian) God.
More to the point, Arabic speaking Christians use that word for (the Christian) God.
Posted by: Knemon at May 01, 2006 11:25 AM (a3KVd)
169
"The Grey Zone," directed by - the ugly, semi-retarded dude from "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" With Harvey Keitel.
And David Arquette, for Christ's sake!
And David Arquette, for Christ's sake!
Posted by: Anon E. Mouse at May 01, 2006 11:35 AM (CwYZr)
170
I've gone about the net and compiled various comments by people about the movie (including DU comments, I didn't want to go any longer so I didn't get to Kos) on my web site. It's rather long but there are a lot of good thoughts in there and a few links to help with understanding.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 01, 2006 01:01 PM (1Vbso)
171
I took my pulses numerous times...it was pounding. Even knowing the outcome I was wracked with tension. The memory of the day was partly responsible, but artful direction took care of the rest. At the end I was in tears. They got SO CLOSE to getting control back! And from what I hear from a family member, the cockpit voice recorder bears it out.
Posted by: Dan S at May 01, 2006 05:01 PM (rathj)
172
As a British poster, can I ask what a 'Moonbat' is? Some kind of Liberal I suppose but why Moonbat? For what its worth, I thought the film was quietly impressive - it's low budget and lack of famous faces really brought home the "banality of evil". I too wonder how it will play in Mainland European theaters (i.e. non-UK) where anti-Americanisn is the only form of racism allowed! No doubt it will be dismissed as a piece of pro-conspiracy propaganda...
Posted by: Johnny 23 at May 08, 2006 02:45 AM (0CHg5)
Posted by: Gary at July 21, 2006 02:46 AM (jd64g)
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