1 I disagree....sorry ace im with some newbies and they all were so so obama, but werent sure if they really quite knew him or trusted him. They thought that Obama looked VERY shady. nope, decided they dont trust him.

2 The good news is that the Rays can eliminate the Red Sox tomorrow night...

3 Debate reaction? While you were having your private party, you left everyone else with the trolls. Thanks for nothing.

4 Fuck it. I am going to sit and watch the Asian markets.

5 The perfect opportunity when the education question came up.  "Senator Government and his radical friend William Ayers spent $300M and achieved nothing compared to other schools that weren't receiving extra funding."  I just have to wonder if his campaign is briefing him on everything.

6

Really?  It was in the first question.

And if you were watching CNN you saw how much the needles dropped when he attacked Obama.  He can say it lightly in the debate and hit it hard on the stump.

7 Luntz folks say Obama won.  Shit.

8 President Bush comment rocked the focus group!

9 McCain did well, and Ace is nothing more than a surrender monkey. He can go to hell and die, for all I care.

10 Sorry PUMAs and Christopher, but you can count me in on the "McCain doesn't want to win" camp. 

Fuck him.  He's in the tank for Barry.

11 Now I know: Eeyore has a cousin.

12 They say he won, but they're still voting for McCain.  The one guy said I'm not voting for a great debater, I'm voting for President.

13 I disagree.  I think the Mav won handily.  Sure, he didn't bring up everything he could have but he only had 90 minutes (divided by 2).  He pounded Obama on his crap.

Actually, scratch that.  Joe the hot Plumber won.

14 #5 ditto. I thought Mac should have said, "well, you have some experience with education reform with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge that you ran a few years ago. How'd that work out for you & Mr. Ayers?"

15 McCain needs to fix that damn denture whistle.

Otherwise he did well, but he should have fucking dominated. He could have but didn't. Damn.

16 It's the economy stupid.

17 They don't mind on Ayers and ACORN.

Putzes.

18 It's kind of hard to hit Obama when there is so much to hit him with and then also present your own plans. Something is bound to be missed. We shouldnt expect perfection.

19 Run ads about the subprime and ACORN until the end

20 Too little, too late.

Total whiff on the Annenberg Challenge softball, re: education and what Obama has done.

Whiff on Obama's votes to raise taxes.

Whiff on anything like: listen to his words, then look at his actions.

The ball is in Joe the Plumber's court.

21 I don't think that did it. McCain just didn't go there.

22 Fuck.  Obama got away with his lies and sounded "presidential" as he told them.  McCain got a few good hits in but most were weak and innefectual.  McCain narrowly won the debate, but not enough to move the polls more than about 1%.  So basically it was a loss for McCain.

23 No Annenberg

No FOCA, no taxpayer funded abortions

No CRA, Dodd, Frank etal

Not good enough on taxes. Still lets obama lie about 95%

McCain did a lot better than previous attempts; but lost because of those.

24 If Obama loses, it's because other people threw the right punches.

25

McCain clobbered him in my opinion. HI am watching Fox and they have unattainable expectations.

McCain brought up ACOR and obama giving them mass amounts of money on 2 different occasions.

He hammered him with "spread the wealth"

These last 2 and a half weeks is us against the world. McCain did what everyone said. McCain even made a great point on abortion.

He served him. the media thinks obama has to impload.

McCain called him Senator Government. That was the higlight. As well as Joe.

26 (7) Luntz folks said BHO won but several said they were voting Mac because they do not trust Barry...

27 Well its got to be a chocolate jesus
Make me feel good inside
Got to be a chocolate jesus
Keep me satisfied

Well I dont want no abba zabba
Dont want no almond joy
There aint nothing better
Suitable for this boy
Well its the only thing
That can pick me up
Better than a cup of gold
See only a chocolate jesus
Can satisfy my soul

28 7 Luntz folks say Obama won.  Shit.

What the Fuck are you talking about FRANK DUNCE is like Dick Morris he is NEVER EVER RIGHT !!!!!!!!1111

29 At least if people decide to cast their several votes for O!, I want them to do it with their eyes open. Knowing what he is.

30 I thought McCain exposed Obama as the socialist he is by making good use of Joe the plumber.  I thought the Joe the plumber stuff was going to be the walk away on the debate by the media, then I remembered that the media sucks.

31 So now what? Seriously.

And I mean how can we stop Obama in 2012.

32 I don't really care about the needles rising or dropping.  The fact remains that now, Obama's associations with Ayers and Acorns have been brought to light for a lot of people, even if they didn't think it was "polite" of McCain to bring up those issues. 

I believe negative campaigns work, especially when negative  = telling the truth about your opponent, as is the case here.  Seeds of doubt have been sowns. 
I hope the 0 goes down in flames.

33

Obama looked like an insurance salesman to me tonight. Oddly, his only strong point was selling us his health insurance plan. McCain struck me as a guy who knew he had to play politician, but finally spoke his mind. Whether he spoke his mind well, and not too late, is another question...

Johnny Mac was missing was the Cheney Face. Chicks dig the Cheney Face... I make it at the coffee machine at work, so I know.

34

Gotta disagree. The Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/Barney Frank/Democratic fuck up has expired in usefulness. Yes, he could've worked it in somehow as an extra jab, but I think the Joe the Plumber/Spread the Wealth/Higher Taxes shit is gonna stick to Obama more than anything else. Obama just laid low and voted 'Present' in the build up to the collapse, so he can deny accountability for it and sleaze his way out of it.

Focusing on how Obama is gonna make it worse is the better strategy. And I think the public learned a hell of a lot more about Senator Shady McGovernment than they knew before.

35 Dick Morris is always wrong about Hillary. Which means she IS going to be the candidate on election day. Sometimes I think I should lay money down on that.

36 Wait a minute, didn't McCain hit Fannie & Freddie right at the start? Yes, it is true he did not do much with it - he was very discombobulated in his delivery early on - but he did mention it and his fix for it regarding his $300 billion mortgage repurchase plan. But yeah, overall your sense is right in that he had opportunities to really hammer Obama on this (and much else) but pulled back. Why, oh why?

37 I listened to the debate on the radio and McCain was excellent.

Obama was an excellent bullshitter.

This debate helped McCain, no doubt about it.

38 I understand the frustration regarding not getting the causes of the subprime mortgage crisis out there, but I question this debate being the forum to do it in.

The American people (bless their souls, as Palin would say) were NEVER reasoned into blaming McCain and the Republicans and so can't be reasoned out of it in a couple minutes of debating. Other venues are needed for that. Hitting the general points was the key and "striking a presidential demeanor," which I thought McCain did very well.

39 Some of you seem to expect him to magically become Daniel Webster in each debate.

40 The plumber thing brings the commie point home better than anything else, really.

41

Tonight we loaded a 5th round in the 6th shooter, spun the cylinder, and started raising it to America's temple. With luck we might be able to remove one before election day.

 

We must all do our best to educate friends and family as best we can about the lies Obama told tonight and about who he really is.

42 hahahahha 2 of my obama girlfriends just text me... "shit, ok Im going to keep saying I am for Obama, but now Im pullin the lever for mccain" i knew it Obama looked shwarmy ewwwwwwww

43 I want to have Joe the Plumber's baby

44 McCain left him a bloody, quivering mess.  And I'm not a rah rah cheerleader.

It's not about how hard YOU want McCain to hit BO, the question is how hard did he need to hit him, and is that hard enough to affect the middle of the roaders.  TOi much more would have come across unhinged.  McCain's deadly trait (what will kill him electorally) is anger.  Obama's is smarmy superiority.  We saw far more smarmyness from O that anger from McCain.  Plus, McCain's simply not going to ever hit as hard as you want, he's a fundamentally nice guy.

Shady O indeed. 

45 dodgers are pulling a McCain right now.

46

I thought McCain did well, I don't think Obama got any more votes then he was already gonna get, but McCain probably helped himself out with some of the conservatives. I don't think debates are game changers anyway. We can't have a tantrum just because he didn't say things the way we wanted him to. He put the Ayers/ Acorn thing out there and now he will follow up with the ads. And if you really believe that any of those people in the "focus" group are really undecided then your off your rocker.

47 #32

Seeds of doubt have been sowns. 

Fixed that.  (Darn it.)

48 You don't even have to say "commie". People just get it.

49 Yeah, Ace, you're acting like a real pussy.

50 The "Joe the Plumber' bit is great. Most aren't entirely sure who exactly Joe the Plumber is and what transpired beyond what was mentioned in the debate.

Now everyone is going to want to know who, what, when where Joe the Plumber and he's going to be all over the papers and airwaves -- a REAL dude laying it out for people.

Obama's gonna tax the crap out of you and cripple your finances.

51 Close the campaign with Fannie and Freddie.

Said it a hundred times... No MSM will tell the world public what caused the world wide credit crunch. People want to blame someone and that blame can be placed squarely on the democrats.

Run with it and don't stop.

52 Guys, Please understand debates are NOT about who "won" or "lost." They are about (1) appearing presidential; (2) presenting your side of the story; (3) coloring your opponent, (if you'll pardon the expression). They are simply a means of putting more information out there for the voters to chew on. Remember: John Kerry supposedly won all the debates, but he lost because voters didn't trust him to do the right thing. Ring any bells? Hello...Ace....?

53 everyone acts like an expert from their keyboards hahahahaha when you are there with LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION and you arent a seasoned LIAR, its TOUGH hindsight is a easy Mac KICKED ASS

54 Wait, you mean the entire media thinks O won, when I clearly think that McCain won.  How is this possible?  I mean it only happened in EVER FUCKING DEBATE.

Christ guys, new to politics huh?

McCain needed to crush Obama to win, he needed to hold up a picture of Obama jerking off to a young boy dressed as Karl Marx.

55 Obama should lose for his shameless lies about the born alive infant act. If America is paying attention.

56 You could tell who the plants in the Luntz group were.  Tie-die lady in the front row, I'm looking at you.

57 So, if Obama wins the election, how soon before they reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine?

Follow-up:  how soon after that before talk radio goes out of business?

58 I don't understand how any of you can think McCain won this thing.  Seriously.  He's not willing to use the ammunition that's available and he won?

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you seriously that much into the "everything is awesome" blog that you're so blind?  

Fuck you McCain.  You're not a fucking fighter, so fuck off with your bullshit. 

59 fresh air exactly! obama supporters here were googling the infants born alive act, and farc its info to CHEW on , then its between you and the lever

60 Everyone relax.  It's not like Ace is going to vote for Obanma.  Personally,  I would have liked for him to do more with Fannie/Freddie as well.  But we all knew going in he wouldn't.  Still he did fine.  The proof will be in the pudding in November.  Obama lied a lot tonight.  Left lots of room for PUMAs ( and others) to work.  Don't complain...work....  Or at least only complain for the rest of the night then get back to work.

61 Another anti-Palin, Krauthammer, is giving Barry kudos for his suave and debonair demeanor.

62 I thought McCain won on content but lost on style. One thing McCain did right and is really big is bring up over and over Joe the Plumber and spreading the wealth. That's one of those nuggets of truth that sparks distrust in Obama. It's a foot in the door. McCain has 20 days to expand Joe the Plumber's fears and hammer it home to people.

63 I think McCain did very well.  I particularly loved "if you wanted to run against Bush, you should've done it 4 years ago." 

We knew he wasn't going to get all postal on Obama and some of us think that would do more harm than good, anyway.

Obama's smirking was really getting on my nerves. 

Best thing about this debate:

Not having to hear Obama say Pah-kee-stahn

64 "You could tell who the plants in the Luntz group were.  Tie-die lady in the front row, I'm looking at you."

Yeah, she couldn't have been more obvious if she'd braided her armpit hair.  "Undecided," my ass.

65 I just hope the nature of the Ayers education money wastage, needed for struggling kids, spent on rascist humbug and wackadoodle, thanks to O, comes out.

66 luntz said he was in miami, those were all democrats. no doubt about it.

67 editor we are a bunch of OVER INVOLVED political geeks the points Mac brought up resonated with the average mom with 3 kids and a job and no time to blog daily about the election... TRUST me hahahhahahaa they see him as HONEST the TRUST him bingo

68 Mc Cain won this debate. It was his best performance. But he could have done much better. Ace is right. Mc Cain is letting Obama paint the Republicans as the cause of this financial crisis. Mc Cain's priority above all else in this debate should have been answers to the questions: How did we get into this mess? How do we get out of this mess? and What we should absolutely not do? Mc Cain chose not to answer the first question. But he did slightly better in answering the second and third question. To take charge of this race Mc Cain needed to pound Obama clearly on the Democrats role and how their solutions will only lead to more problems.

69 The die is cast, but don't despair.   Still time to hammer it home on the stumps, all a big negative hit job would have done tonight is "offend" the limp wrist metrosexuals.  Red meat on the stumps will bring the base to the polls, that and these acorn fraud investigations.  One thing us rednecks don't like is cheating, and there's millions of us quietly waiting for Nov. here in flyover country.

70 I haven't seen a single moment of  post-debate analysis that even asks whether what Obama said was true or not.

Thus falls the Republic.

Qwinn

71 Buck up, guys.  McCain did well.  Joe the Plumber is the hero of the night.

I still think "We are spending as much on earmarks as we do on NASA" would be a good talking point, since most people think NASA is ridiculously overfunded.

72 Pawlenty is a closet douchebag....he apparently told Chris Wallace off-air that Obama was rope-a-doping McCain, and Wallace quoted him on-air.

Fuck you, Pawlenty - and you, too, Wallace.

73 Stop The Presses: Mark Halperin gives McCain an A- and Obama a B+.

74

75 Well I don't want to disagree with you Ace and maybe it's just blind optimism that's making me do so, but I really think McCain beat Obama soundly. I don't buy that the election is all going to be about the financial stuff. I think it's going to be about whether people trust Obama or not. On that score I think McCain damaged Obama irrevocably.

Sure, the sub-prime mortgage stuff could have added to the attack and made it that much better but just cause he didn't hammer hard on it doesn't mean he lost. He just didn't do as well as he might have.

Another thing I think was good was that McCain came across as a conservative and Obama came across as a liberal. Regardless of what anyone says, conservatives win elections and liberals lose them. We'll see if that impression sticks but I think it'll definitely be a positive for McCain.

76 Mc Cain is letting Obama paint the Republicans as the cause of this financial crisis.

Do you think it's because on some level that's what McCain believes also?

77 Where is Joe Biden to ask Charles Krauthammer to stand up and wave to the crowd?

78 Krauthammer is in the tank for Obama, fuck.

79 I got the feeling the Bradley effect was in effect big time in Luntz groups -- Obama won, I thought he did great, I voting for Mac because I don't trust the winner.

80 Seriously relax a little.  Things won't look so good or so bad in the morning.  And "Senator Government" whether McCain meant it or not is going to leave a mark. 

81

McCain reminded me of Bob Dole.

 

No fight.

82 The other debates McCain won on points. This debate he just flat out WON. All I remember from the debate was the issue over taxes and McCain pounded on that. Big time. Joe The Plumber is going to one of the guys who helps turn this election.

Sorry Ace, but I think this one is going to resonate a little deeper than the other two.

83

Now we start the "Joe The Plumber" ads

Explain OBamba's taxes .... He is now the expert.

84 My wife, the pro-life Democrat, says that McCain won.  (But then, she was already going to vote for him.)

And I agree, McCain won handily.

Yes, I would have preferred that McCain spent the entire 90 minutes hammering away at Bambi, like a blacksmith at an anvil, but he did well.   He was feisty and sharp, and got enough blows to make me feel he's going in the right direction.

And now, McCain needs to ram Joe the Plumber right down Senator Government's throat.  Put him in ads, have him do interviews, send him out to ambush Biden on the stump.

This thing can still be won.  McCain helped himself tonight, and Joe the Plumber can help him tomorrow. But he's got to keep the pressure on, especially on the economic and taxation issues. 

85 I'm watching Fox now.  What the hell is wrong with Krauthammer?  All he's saying is Obama is so smooth and unruffled, so he won.

86

Why would McCain pass up Obama's record with Annenberg Challenge?

All that money directed at Chicago schools, dedicated not to improving education, but  teaching hatred of America, and support for racial separatism.

Does John McCain need a fucking hearing aid?

87 McCain did ok.  He could've done better, but he could've easily done far worse.

88

If he had hit him on Ayers and Wright earlier, then he could have hit him harder on ACORN and Born Alive tonight. He let it pile up and some of his best opportunities seem outdated in light of the economic situation. He could have killed on Raines.

Trying to throw it all out in one night just wasn't doable without sounding pissed off throughout the entire debate.

I still say he won although clearly there will be much debate about that subject.

89 You can Saul Alinsky the debonair types, I guess. But you can't fool Joe the plumber.

90

I agree that McCain should have pushed the FM/FM issue harder.  But, I was glad that he said he stood by his advertising and I'm glad that he FINALLY said "I'm not George Bush".

I think he did well.  The CNN recap contained a lot of blah, blah, blah....BUT, blah, blah, blah.

They know that Obama could have done a lot better.  And the surveys of independents that I've seen so far have pretty much agreed that Obama looked shady.  Which is encouraging.

Basically, I'm just hoping that the American people are not as stupid as I fear they are.

91 I hear your frustration Ace (channeling Obama), but seriously, let's give the week out and see what ads he and the RNC run now.  If he attacks them in ads, which have worked, them maybe we've got something.

He did fight tonight.  Sorta, in the John McCain way.  He was more aggressive then he has been. 

92 senator government was great

93 After the election, McCain will hold a press conference and say:

Obama is who we thought they were, he's who we thought he was. We debated him before the election, who the hell doesn't take a debate seriously? Bullshit, Bullshit! Obama is who we thought he was! And that's why we took the damn nomination. Now if you wanna crown him, then crown his ass! But he is who we thought he was, and we let 'im off the hook!

94 Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2008 10:38 PM (Xl9pj)

Ya, it's not like they've ever been in this position before....oh, wait a minute... Never mind.

95 Is it me or does Nina Easton look HOT???

96 Obama looked like a prick tonight with all the smirks and laughing.  he was on split screen almost the whole time - people notice and they don't like it.  He really did come off as a smarmy salesman, and it played perfectly into McCain hitting him with the "spread the wealth" thing.

Sure, I would like to have seen McCain hit him harder, but he has to worry about the "angry old man" thing.  Stupid I know, but I though he got enough in there (except the Annenberg/education thing, that was a miss)  And he at least planted the seed about Ayers and ACORN, so it's out there, and Obama looked flustered. 

Hell, McCain even referenced the "Palin is a C---" shirts.  If he keeps hitting on Fannie/Freddie in the ads, I think he has a chance.  Overall, better than I was expecting.

97 I don't know about the debate, but I have reacted very well to the value-rite I have been drinking.

K

98
Krauthammer just said:  "McCain is fucked."

Exact quote.

99 Joe the Plumber on the phone on CBS right now!

100 Nina Easton quoting the CBS/NYT poll that shows Obama 14 points ahead of McCain as evidence of how great Obama is...fuck fuck fuck! C'mon, Fox News, Jesus!

101 I was not a big Palin fan. Same reservations as the usual suspects, to my discredit. She's grown on me.

102 never mind, they ran out of time after about 5 seconds.  ??

103

I love your blog, Ace, but I have to disagree.  I think McCain did very well.  Would I have liked for him to have hit harder on Fannie and Freddie and BO's ties?  Absolutely.  Bottom line is that he is not a debator (at least of BO's caliber) and he has a hard time articulating every point. That's ok though.  The Fannie and Freddie ties to BHO fly over the heads of the majority of the populace anyway.  Taxes do not.  Joe Plumber does not.  McCain did a very good job arguing the merits of his tax plan while poking holes in BO's.  He also did an excellent job disarming the Bush III arguments.  He clearly had BO on the ropes. 

There is this preconceived notion that there has to be some knockout to change the game.  I think the game has already been changed.  The polls over the last week show this (those that matter - and we all know that most don't).  Since the last debate, there has been a shift tilting back to McCain.  Likely voters are within the margin of error.  This race is tied.  EVERYONE on our side need to recognize this!!!  Quit the doomsday attitude.  Negativism is self-defeating.  ACORN matters, Ayers matters and yes, Fannie and Freddie matters.  However, voters are going to pull the lever based on their gut and their guts are telling them that BO can't be trusted.  Their guts are telling them that BO will take their money away.  Their guts are telling them that BO is a socialist that wants to mandate behavior through tax incentives (not tax cuts).  Their guts also tell them that this is a dangerous world and we can't be defeatest, pussies on the world stage.

McCain took it to him tonight. The polls will continue to tighten.  The 527's will keep doing their jobs. Palin will continue to do hers.  McCain will continue to as well. The race is tight but we will win.  Mark my words.

 

104

you guys talk about McCain losing. It is you thats losing. You let the liberal media destroy your hopes. Mccain mentioned all of the BS you guys asked, but now because in a debate about the economy he did not spend the entire debate on associations the media WILL NOT COVER anyhow.

McCain took it to him. He came out and went on offense and scored. Obama looked smug and rambled on and on. Mac ssaid Acorn was destroying the fabric of democracy, he said Obama gave them 800,000 dollars, he mentioned Obama and Ayers gave them them $230,000

he hammered obama for big government over and over. Watching it i was pumped, obama was called out on lies several times.

The media has you so brainwashed no matter what you think he sucks. Your attitudes suck quite frankly.

McCain has not given up it is you. Though, i do imagine a huge portion of defeatist comments are Obama Atroturfers in action beating moral even more. We lose if we let them win.

105 Look, relax everybody.  When Joe the Plumber thinks he is going to get screwed by the Democrat, the Democrat is in serious trouble.  We all think we are at least as good as Joe the Plumber.  Joe the Plumber is the swing voter in every swing state.  McCain got Joe the Plumber out there front and center.  Obama just hit an iceberg with that one, but I'm not sure he know it yet.

106 I'm just utterly apalled that no one, no one anywhere, seems to care about Obama lying through his teeth.

He lied about his Born Alive vote.  He lied about being in Ayers' living room.  He lied about practically everything.  And NO ONE CARES.

Qwinn

107 Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin on the campaign trail!  Now we have a shot at it!

108 You people are idiots.

The Fan/Fred this is too complicated. It's boring. No one understands it. The ONLY thing that anyone is going take away from McCain talking about the bailout is "I supported the bailout that everyone hates."

Why you people think that getting into the fine print of the Credit Pseudocrisis is a winning issue is beyond me.

109

T-Shirts

Vote for Joe the Plumber, he understands the crap in Washington

110

yeah, those press conferences are like 4 national debates.

 

 

five maybe.  they get all that coverage.

111 Ace, get a grip.  Obama came across as smug, smarmy, and arrogant.  The Joe the Plumber stuff can be a real winner for McCain. 

112 I believe McCain won on the points addressed.

But he is not losing due to the points addressed.

He is losing because of the subprime crisis.

113 Krauthammer is in the tank for himself.  Don't want to give up all those Beltway cocktail party invites, yaknow.

114 the PUMAS are loving John....they are happy cats Obama came off as sleazy as ever....and he looked like a CHILD but WHAT is up with the new gray hair he's sportin?? huh?

115 The fighter pilot (yes I know he was an attack pilot) sent the community organizer down in flames.

In this third and final debate, McCain was inside the OODA Loop and for a half-black man, Obama looked like a red Injun.

Eloquence my foot, Obama was stuttering his answers all night he was that punch drunk.

116

McCain clearly won. Finally. Not a knock-out, but a clear victory.

If you don't agree, check out Michelle Obama's face when she came up on the podium. And compare to Cindy's face.

Now let's win this election.

117 It's not about how hard YOU want McCain to hit BO, the question is how hard did he need to hit him, and is that hard enough to affect the middle of the roaders.  TOi much more would have come across unhinged.  McCain's deadly trait (what will kill him electorally) is anger.  Obama's is smarmy superiority.  We saw far more smarmyness from O that anger from McCain. 

IAWTC. McCain didn't get in everything, but you can't really. I'm hoping people will hit Google and figure out just how shady this ACORN crap is, but I'm not holding my breath.

118 Even after seeing Obama lo these many months and suffering through his commercials without end, its still amazing how smoothly he tell blatant lies.  The Big He has nothing on this guy.

119 Joe the Plumber: "Obama in the toilette"

120

"Sexuality is sacred," said Obama during the abortion segment.

WTF?

That is the first time I have ever heard that phrase and actually rewound the DVR to make sure. Now I Google it and find all these lib chick bloggers having orgasms about it for some reason.

Is this some cherished NOW-esque catchphrase that we've totally missed? And why is Obama so well-versed in it?

121 CCooper

Your words have been marked.
Please report to reeducation camp 32C on 20th Jan 09.

122 A lot of analogies pop to mind -- "Bob Dole II" -- but it's pointless now.

McCain did not close the deal and it was his choice.  He will be able to say November 5th that he did it honorably but he will have lost it not just for himself but for the rest of us morons.
I'm beginning to think McCain did not want to win.

Barring a miracle, McCain is done for.  End of story.  I admire McCain for the most part but I'm glad he will not likely run again. 

If there is a country after four years of Obama, how does President Palin sound to ya?

123 >>>He lied about his Born Alive vote.  He lied about being in Ayers' living room.  He lied about practically everything.  And NO ONE CARES.

Because whatever Obama is, he's not the guy responsible for the subprime crisis.   McCain is. 

In the public mind, I mean.

124

I thought McCain did well.  I think it will play well with the middle.  I dunno if it is enough to overcome all the money and fraud Obama has but I think it shows that McCain is not giving up.

So I am Happy.

Lets see how the polls move over the next few days and what Team McCain does with the time it has left.

125 I'm just utterly apalled that no one, no one anywhere, seems to care about Obama lying through his teeth.

This has been the most frustrating election ever.

126 McCain won.

Hell, even the Democrat pundits gave the first half hour to him. Then they claimed that Obama won the rest because McCain was showing his anger BS.

McCain covered lots of ground and frankly he covered ground that Obama never bothered to respond to. I would think that more people will be asking questions of OBama, especially his silence.

127 Fannie/Freddie, high gas prices and the hike in minimum wage fucked up this economy.

One party can fix that.

Run on that.

128

I believe in the American voter.  It is hard to fool them..   It is hard to mysify them.

Here in Indiana we harvest wheat and corn.  We harvest life.  

Come November-there may be change.  But  we shall see how much actually changes.  

Do some good--Barry.

 

129

He should have gone much harder on ACORN.  It is going to break big over the next couple weeks and McCain could have made it clear that Obama is up to his tight ass with these thugs. 

They fucked the economy, issue 1, and they are trying to cook the election, something everyone hates.

I think he missed a big opportunity.

130 find all these lib chick bloggers having orgasms about it for some reason.


Andi Sullivan too, no doubt.

131 Good thing Obama has "maj" garrett to 'splain things to us.

132

Don't worry, #31.

Even if (GOD FORBID) Obama gets elected this time, we'll stop him in 2012 the same way Reagan stopped Carter in 1980.

It won't take long for Americans to realize that they've made a HUGE mistake if they vote the Socialist in.

Palin-Jindal 2012!

and/or Jindal-Palin 2012!

133

Arm up as much as you can, and prepare yourselves for the mayhem of post 11/4.  Even if Obama's "elected," he will not have the support of the military due to the illegitimacy of the election, the manufacture of votes, his undesirable affiliations, his drug use, his desire to deploy the military to Darfur, and a lot of other shit I could add.   

This Republic is due for a purification.    

134 McCain ate Barrys lunch but so what? As a disgusting, fat, angry, WHITE nurse at my place of work said today- "McCain is gonna die, and that idiot Palin will be our president-belch...(belch added by me. She may as well have). Fine. Elect this SOB. From this point on, any black who comes to my house to perform any job I've called in will be shooed away, and his company told of same. I don't care anymore. Go ahead and call me a racist. Keep watching MTV, reality shows, and idolizing "TO", and "Pacman", and "Shaq", et al. Anyone who sees 99% of blacks voting for a racist marxist, and still says "oh my God! How could you say such a thing?!" deserves Barry. Enjoy...

135 Now I Google it and find all these lib chick bloggers having orgasms about it for some reason.

Only because Obama said it. Let a religious figure like, oh, the Pope, suggest that sexuality is sacred and that maybe you shouldn't have sex until you're married, and their heads explode. I'm beginning to think Obama really is the Messiah of their secular humanistic religion.

but WHAT is up with the new gray hair he's sportin?? huh?

Yeah, I noticed that too. He's aged visibly. McCain, OTOH, is already old, so nothing to lose on that front.

136 McCain may have lost according to AOS standards, but thankfully those standards are not the final word.  The window for explaining or hammering Obama on the financial crisis is pretty well closed.  At this point McCain's best bet is to speak about things like "Joe the plumber," which has an interesting narrative and revealing glimpse of Obama built right into the story-line.  Obama's smirks also go a long way toward helping McCain underscore Obama's character.

In other words, this election is far from over, in spite of some of you eeyores.

137 Umm, this is ridiculous. Both these comments need to be like done away with or something.

138 And Axelrod's dullwitted agents provocateurs arrive on the scene.

How much is he paying you guys, anyway? Or does he just give you a cigarette, the way the ACORN people do?

139 Because whatever Obama is, he's not the guy responsible for the subprime crisis. McCain is. In the public mind, I mean. I wonder why McCain is associated with the Subprime Crisis, Ace. Could it have anything to do with the fact that HE VOLUNTARILY MADE HIMSELF THE FACE OF THE BAILOUT THAT NOBODY WANTED? If you still think that supporting the bailout was a smart political move, it's time to get your head checked.

140 WTF debate were these pundits watching? McCain mopped the floor with BO. Good lord people get your heads out of the sand. Either get with the program or GTFO! There's two choices here, a socialist thug or a centrist, authentic american hero. Not to fucking difficult. Kristol and Krauts can lick my balls....

141 A local Obama supporter actually thought the Voucher thing was a good idea and he wanted to hear more about it.

Also, second issue was how much money was going to be spent. 

Taxes.

McCain needs to talk about how opening up the states for outside health insurance bidding will increase competition and reduce costs, plus tax break. 

142 You let the liberal media destroy your hopes. Mccain mentioned all of the BS you guys asked, but now because in a debate about the economy he did not spend the entire debate on associations the media WILL NOT COVER anyhow.

You're wrong.  What is fucking upsetting is his bullshit about fighting for his country, but then he throws single punches and no combinations.  He's weak.  Period.  He's had 3-debates and plenty of ammo.  He let Oama and Dems create a narrative about the FM/FM and not FOUGHT it.  His campaign suspension was not a fight.  His return to DC was not a fight.  He may have thought he was doing the right thing, but he wasn't.

I'm sick of you everything is awesome bullshitters.  I hope he wins.  I hope he wins big and actually still think he has a chance... but don't any tell me he's a fighter.  Or that he's anything different.

143

Ace,

First of all thank you for the previous lolcats post.  Oh how I laughed.  I'm half drunk, I'm bummed out and it just tickled my funny bone.  Second, it was hard to watch.  McCain could have taken his shot but instead he willingly repeated the last two debates which each did him no good.  His aversion to Fannie/Freddie/CRA/etc continues to amaze me.  He insists on fighting completely on terrain of his enemies choosing.  I'm pretty sure that's not how you are supposed to do it.

144 Everyone chill. Ace is entitled to his own point of view.

I don't agree that McCain needs to articulate the Democrats complicit criminality in sucking the balls of Fannie Mae and pushing them to further destruct our economy, I think it's the fricken RNC's place since it helps ALL republicans running, but that's just me.

Further, I don't think Ace is fully grasping the amazingness of Joe the Plumber though.

It's pretty remarkable, cuz when you look at Joe you can see he's NOT going to retreat and he's compelling and he's gonna tell his story.

145 Even Bill Kristol is a freaking Eeyore now. The Republican Party can really suck ass...the Dems never drop their smile no matter how deep they are in the shit. WTF?

146 And don't be appalled that no one is checking Obama's lies.  Start emailing some links about. And don't worry about Krauthamer and the rest.  No matter what happens in this election their days of having any say at all in the Republican party are done.  Palin isn't going away.  That's what is eating them.  Like I said it won't look as good as the optimists think in the morning, but it won't look as bad as the pessimists think, either.  Be of good cheer.  Keep working.

147

Hope 'n' Change.

Hope for more baby-killin'

Change the subject to stupid drillin'.

 

148

The only way you can "prove" he Obama is lying is to bring in the audio tape. Otherwise its like Biden's gaffs ... too many to keep track of.

McCain personified Obama's plan with Joe the Plumber, and gave himself another Front to fight the war with. This will be the key issue from the third debate. And there is no fourth debate where Obama could say, "well i have a err plumber too."

JoeP is an average american, and can now be the spokesman for McCain on the Tax issue.

149 You can tell by the screaming if your fire is on target.

K

150

'you should have run 4 years ago'

'joe the plumber'

'senator government'

 

plus smirky Obama

 

ask yourself this question, after watching the debate:

which man looked, talked, acted, like a President?

151 My $0.02

McCain didn't hit 'im hard enough on many issues, but he nailed Obama multiple times on his "spread the wealtth" theory of economic growth. I thought he also showed Obama for what he is -- a race-baiting coward -- when he called him out on the John Lewis crap and the One tried to ignore it. McCain also made a comment about his smarmy lawyer-speak, which I thought was Obama's biggest weakness throughout; like many here noted -- not to be trusted.

Overall, I thought Obama came across as a shifty, beady-eyed weasel.

Oh yeah, I know, THAT'S RACIST!

152

 

"the whole country has ADD"-- Tommy Gavin

153 Hillary on Fox.....fine, Hill, make yourself look like a goddamn fool.  PUMAs?  witness the Hillary fail. 

154

because thats what people want to see in debates- they want to 'see' their next President-

Like Reagan v Mondale- you watched that, and you saw Reagan, and you knew you were looking at the next President

155 I agree with Ace.

Talking about Joe the Plumber is good.  Maybe that bit will actually get on the MSM and more people will see for themselves.

But the whole fucking subprime thing *IS* the same issue Joe the plumber.  "Spread the wealth around" helped fuck up the entire damn economy!

156

by next I mean the winner

damn i screwed the pooch on that

157 If McCain loses the election, Obama's tax increases should only apply to Democrats and those Republicans that voted for McCain in the primaries.

It's only fair.

158 Hillary Clinton just looked very positive and confident on Fox. 

I think she's got something up her sleeve. 

Can you say... "October surprise"? 

159 Even if Obama's "elected," he will not have the support of the military due to the illegitimacy of the election...

The military will never go there...we live and die by the Constitution. Whoever you elect is the Man, even if we don't like them.

160 Wow, what delusional homers...

Before you guys read about axelrod and astroturfing, what did you call people that didn't chime in with the mob chant before this meme?  Trolls, KosKids, witches?

No one is saying McCain can't win, we are just saying he is not trying very hard.  I for one think he is shooting for a position in an Obama cabinet.

161 Obama won, because he made no large mistakes and said nothing he hasn't already said.

That's all that was required for him to win. 

I'm convinced that this race is over.  There will be no game changer.  At lease not from the McCain campaign. 

We're fucked.

Hillary's fucked too, if that's any consolation.  Not really.

It's all so damned depressing.  I just can't get rid this vision of ACORN workers gleefully spreading my wealth all over their flabby bodies.  I feel so violated.

162 You could tell who the plants in the Luntz group were.  Tie-die lady in the front row, I'm looking at you.

Posted by: Z Ryan at October 15, 2008 10:51 PM (PDeVA)

Yeah, no chance in hell was that crazy-eyed woman undecided.

163 I think McCain did prett well.

And I think some of the things Ace and others wanted hime to say, he tried to say and Scheifer cut him off or Obama rode over him, or both.

I don't know it that will matter in the morning, tho'.

164 Brit Hume's panel sucks.  Hopefully Hannity will have better people on.

165 Fuck it!  If I am to be a fucking donkey that brings rain clouds so be it!  This is fucking OVER!.  The American people dont give A SHIT, he is different.  His brand of Socialism is palatable to most packaged as Capitalism.  THIS FUCKING SUCKS AND WE WILL BE MADE TO EAT IT!  Folks, Obama is our next president, and we would do well to get a Fucking plan to STOP HIM!
that is all

166

I'm the troll who thought Palin lost. And I thought Mac won this one.

167 I also norte that of the news sites I look at (CNN among them) NOT a ONE has said who "won".  Not one.

168 McCain ad just up banging on the "liberal spenders" in congress + Obama is a bad thing.  Now is the time.  we've been inundated with Obama ads for two weeks.  This guy is all over KMBZ talk radio which is the conservative radio station in KC.  Right in the middle of Rush Limbaugh..Obama ad...Shannon and Parks (love McCain)...Obama ad...Darla J (conservative, loves Palin)...Obama ad.

Where are the McCain ads?

169 McCain provided nothing for me to dip my balls in, therefore he lost. 

170

Major Garrett on Fox...apparently Obama is still talking about PIE and how the Bush administration caused the economy to fail and the PIE business to slow down.

171

I think Mav did very well.  He looks like a statesman.  He knows the detail.  Obama shucked n' jived quite a bit.  Lied too.  I think people can see when he gropes for the next talking point. 

Also, consider this.  I bet inside polling reveals they're much closer than the bias-push-polls one sees lately.  (Check out the % of party affiliation and how that has changed.)  So Mav might be playing safe--like he's in the lead--too. 

I don't buy this "McCain had to score a knockout punch" stuff.  (If he scores some knockout punch, let me know.)  He's almost in the same rhetorical position as Omega.  This close, he has to play a safe game.  He  did well.  I think he did very well.

Now, time to unleash the pit bull again.

172

I seriously believe McCain has had a series of minor strokes. No one in his position could be that clueless on points and counter points. No. One.

173 145 Even Bill Kristol is a freaking Eeyore now. The Republican Party can really suck ass...the Dems never drop their smile no matter how deep they are in the shit. WTF?

Do you understand that the Republican Party is the Democrat party of the '90s?  Sorry, but I'm not about to get excited about that.  Slippery slope 'n all.

174 Mitt should reach over, grab Colmes by his tie and just smack him back and forth across the face until he cries.

175 It was an interesting debate.  I think McCain did what he needed to do.  He planted seeds.  He attacked Obama on his record and managed to make most of the soundbites people are likely to hear.  Senator Goverment, was most memorable.

I think it was mostly a wash.  Debates are rarely game-changers in any case.  I think McCain will likely gain a bit after this debate, but not a lot. 

McCain often managed to discombobulate Obama.  Obama spent most of the evening explaining why he thought certain things.  He even had to explain away his abortion votes in the Illinois senate.  It's odd that he can never say "Yes, that was my vote as a senator.  It's what I believe and it's why I cast that vote."

I can only hope McCain has a blitz planned between now and election day, because while I'll give him the win, it wasn't a blow out, and it's not going to change anything.

176

Do you Jindal/Palin/Pence etc partisans truly expect that the National Democratic machine will allow them to get any traction over the next 4 years?  They still need to run for office in 2010, their reelections not guaranteed.  Do you think they'll escape indictment for some trumped up charge?  Do you think the DemocRats will not be investigating them starting 5 November? 

This election is now, now, now, in order to prevent the ascendancy of a one-party, corrupt kleptocracy akin to the PRI in Mexico.

177 CNN's web site loks almost pro McCain.

178 Major Garrett.  Is he a journalist?  He sounded like a DNC spokesman.

179 I think McCain fought hard and honorably. I give him full credit for that.

He should have attacked harder on the subprime mortgage situation, how he (with the assistance of his senatorial staff, but leave that bit out) tried to crack down on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but Obama stopped it. However, in order to do that McCain would have had to throroughly understood it. I'm not convinced he does.

Why do I say this?

I went to his website earlier today and his landing page video ad, relased today, had an attack ad on the economic meltdown.

But who did it attack? Barack Obama?

In passing, maybe. But the thrust of the ad was to attack Wall Street, corporate greed, and etc. McCain seems to believe deep down this was the larger part of the problem. Perhaps that's why John Kerry could consider him as his running mate?

Nonetheless, given McCain's slightly right of center politics, his heroic service to your country and freedom generally in past years, his freedom from corruption, and his efforts tonight I'm willing to give him a pass and say all conservatives should unite behind him.

Remember, Obama isn't foolish, he's strong and his ideology is hard left. He goes out of his way to hide most of his associations and minimize them because he has to. He is by far the worst choice. Whereas McCain is a decent and noble man who doesn't have quite the same depth of conservative ideology I wish he did.

He's conservative on some issues including right to life and this is highly commendable and attractive in a candidate.

Go John McCain and good job tonight, sir.

Read Ace's damn blog. Address the subprime crisis even if it means tracking down a conservative for 2 hours and asking them to explain it to you. Call Mark Levin.

180 Just watch Obama explain Marxism to the plumber.  If socialism and communism worked like that, France would have the biggest fucking economy in the world.   

181 You guys who are pissed at Krauthammer are shooting the messenger.  The truth is every word he said was correct.  McCain just didn't finish his points against Obama, he half assed it everytime, making the attack but then just dropping it.  It made him seem reluctant to do it which made him seem like he was doing something he didn't want to do in order to win.  If he looks like he doesn't believe his own points why would anyone else.  

182 The health care rebuttal: "That's great, Barry. But what if I'm an infant born alive?"

183 This is what happens when Republicans run moderates as Presidential candidates.  Remember Bob Dole.  Other than fear of Obama, conservatives have very little to be excited about with McCain.

Angry White Dude
www.angrywhitedude.com

184 CNN is still talking about McCains debate. It is like Obama wasn't even there, other than that he won according to him, somehow.

Snippets from the debate before the last two breaks were of McCain.


I am feeling good about this debate still. I should probably just turn off the TV, and computer....

185 I've been pretty pessimistic about this race myself, but I have to disagree with you tonight, Ace. Yes, I would also have loved to see McCain raise the FM/FM stuff. But I still have doubts about whether it works well as a debate topic where Obama can brush off his involvement with "just a minute" of generic boilerplate. I suspect (hope) that there will be a serious push on that subject via TV ads.

Obama was snickery, hesitant, and evasive, especially whenever he was asked about cutting spending. I think McCain looked firmly in control and that he raised many strong points. Stuff  that may be familiar to us but which the media has otherwise carefully avoided talking about except on Obama's terms. Senator Government was forced to go way out on a couple shaky limbs in his responses and I expect we'll see follow-up ads and responses very quickly.

186

Ace, you missed who McCain was targeting. It was NOT the wimpy undecideds. It was the BASE. And speaking as one of the BASE, I am highly energized.

 

Also, you have been whining about how you wanted McCain to bring up Ayers and Acorn. He did and you're still not satisfied.

 

Geez.

187 McCain won. Even though the people who have been desperately screeching that he's losing say he lost.

188 @143:

From this point on, any black who comes to my house to perform any job I've called in will be shooed away, and his company told of same. I don't care anymore.

Go ahead and call me a racist.

Ok, no problem. You are a racist.

189 Somewhere John McCain is smoking a cigarette.

190 I agree with you, Ace.  He needed to lay that sub-prime crap at the feet of the Dems and how he is going to root out the corruption that caused it. We are in the middle of global financial meltdowns and we're discussing friggin Columbia.

191 I don't understand how any of you can think McCain won this thing.  Seriously.  He's not willing to use the ammunition that's available and he won?

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you seriously that much into the "everything is awesome" blog that you're so blind?   

Why so angry?

192 #108  The Fan/Fred this is too complicated. It's boring. No one understands it.

Honestly, people don't really have to understand it.

People believe that it's the Republican's fault because The Narrative has been it's Wall Street greed that the Republicans have been standing behind.  It's generally not true.

Maverick isn't aggresively making the case to change people's minds:

* Democrats were behind CRA, Fannie/Freddie expansion into subprime markets.
* Democrats stopped Republican attempts to rein this mess in before it below up.  Ironically, the Dems blame the whole thing on "deregulation" even though they were the ones that blocked regulation in the first place.
* Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, was getting lots of money from these fuckers.
* Giving mortgages to people who can't afford it is just another example of "spreading the wealth" gone wrong.

You don't need a 15-page essay on the subject, but you do need to tell people that it's the other guy's fucking fault!  And Mav isn't doing this aggressively.

193 I know you wanted him to bring up Fannie/Freddie, ace, but I really don't think he needed to tonight. I know Obama is up and Mcain can use all the help he can get, but the fact is that by hitting enough slow pitches, and allowing Obama to show what a smarmy condesending prick he is, Mcain did what he needed to do tonight. The question is does he have the balls to take the gloves off and attack this douchebag for the next three weeks until voting day... WAIT, IS THAT A FUCKING CAT DOING A RUBIX CUBE? WOW!!! -V

194 I think Dole is a better man but Clinton won the likability contest. Different times same result. Maybe the American people will prove me wrong.

195 obama was on his heels all nite... listen to the PUMAS, they have more ooomph then you white flag raisers....ugh http://tiny.cc/clrit

196 Like Reagan v Mondale- you watched that, and you saw Reagan, and you knew you were looking at the next President

Or the sitting, incumbent President.

197 #104 Posted by: ppp at October 15, 2008 10:58 PM (zzms

Right on, bro'!

198 Well, I hate to say this, but the American people blame wall street first and then congress and since it was a Republican President it came to a head under, that's who gets the last boot.  The best that McCain can do is point to the "Wall Street" folks because the American people do not have a clue that we don't live in a purely capitalist nation any more, but a place where, yes, government regulations exist and they create the onus  for  free markets to either be forced to go against their common sense or opens up loop holes  that then get exploited.

In fact, one of the things that McCain could have done in the past was to talk about Democrat sponsored legislation created a "loophole" for WallStreet to exploit.  He should have stolen the Democrat favorite word. 

199 I think McCain did fine.  He -did- bring up many of the points that I thought he should - and more than I expected.  He called Obama out and forced Obama to lie.

You can't expect him to do more than that.  And God knows I'm willing to bash McCain, so this isn't just sucking up.

The problem is that Obama is -getting away with the lies-.  That's not McCain's fault.  Everyone - and I mean everyone - is giving Obama a pass on them.  Every single post-debate analysis should be focusing on who told the truth.  That should be the first and single most important point in the debate.  Instead, we're evaluating it on "who was more convincing".  We're voting on who was a better liar.  On that basis, Democrats will -always- win.  We're totally fucked.

Qwinn

200 REAGAN CARTER

201 Oh well, I will be taking my puma anger to the polls... I could cry later on if the phony obama wins this thing.

202 I had about ten people over tonight to watch the debate.  Eight of us are Republications and two are Dems ... one for McCain and one leaning Obama.  The leaning Obama Dem said Obama may sound presidential but he is well rehearsed.  She did not like his answer on Ayers because she knows Ayers gave him the "coming out" party in his living room (not only from me but from watching Palin rallies).  She also commented several times about Obama interrupting and "smirking" ... did not like that at all ... thought it was extremely childish.  She is now leaning McCain.  Don't worry, folks, I'll push her over.

Overall, I thought Mac had more substance than Obama.  Obama is the one with style (albiet fake as shit) and no substance. 

Go ahead and give up the fight for McCain. 

Quitters never win.  Winners never quit.

203 Guys, go vote the shit out of the poll on this page --

http://www.newsnet5.com/

The talking heads are trying to use their "scientific" results on air....with less than 50 votes.

204 McCain did as well as he can do.  He is not the best speaker.  He overall won on points.  These debates don't turn elections so no need to wet our pants.  We need to volunteer as poll watchers, callers and neighborhood walking to get the vote out.  Lets face it.  McCain is not really our guy but he sure beats the Marxist and Sarah rocks.   No need for recriminations now.  There may be time for that later.  Lets all  Manup, Buckup, and see if we can push  them across the line.

205

Major Garrett has been assigned to the O camp for all the debates, Greta to McCain. I don't remember Maj ever being in the tank and I think he's just relaying what he's hearing coming out of their camp.

 

and AWD...Fear is a very powerful motivator.

 

 

206 Well, I thought McCain did well and that he won, and that the MSM cannot deny it.

207 I really think Obama has a tell. Whenever he laughs and smiles like "you can't hurt me", it just hurt him.

208 I thought that The One's closing statements sounded completely like they were read off of a TelePrompTer. Obama did not, in my opinion, appear to connect with the viewer at all in his final statements. Mccain truly threw Obama off several times tonight. Please, Ace, don't give up on McCain. He did an outstanding job tonight, really. He absolutely hammered Obama on almost every point. There are still 19 days left and a lot can happen.

209 McCain just effectively separated himself from Bush with the line that if obama wanted to run against Bush, he should have run in 2004.

That is the sort of thing voters remember rather than he is paying much money on a health care plan or who was more involved with Freddie Mac.   McCain is going to get a boost from that.

McCain also diminished Obama by questioning the way he carefully words his ideas.  That registered even with Lunz's group.  remember the one guy who made it a point to say Obama was a great debater, but i am voting for a president?  He got what McCain was trying to do.

Sit tight, boys 'n girls.  McCain did not land a knock out punch, but he did just make himself more competitive.   

210 You folks that think McCain won this in any way are deluding yourselves.

On the  Luntz focus group on FOX not a SINGLE person raised their hand to say they thought McCain won.

Hilarious!

211

.I also norte that of the news sites I look at (CNN among them) NOT a ONE has said who "won".  Not one

 

CNN 's website poll was 84% 'Obama wins' a few minutes ago

212 Posted by: JS at October 15, 2008 11:05 PM (DHdVk)

You're an idiot. You should really find a blog where bigots such as yourself are more welcome than they are here.

213 I am feeling good about this debate still. I should probably just turn off the TV, and computer....

Anecdotal.  I had to dash out to the grocery story during the debate and it was packed. I was annoyed because lines were so long.

214 >>> I know you wanted him to bring up Fannie/Freddie, ace, but I really don't think he needed to tonight.

With all due respect, not to be a killjoy, but we'll see what the polls say.

McCain needed a momentum shifter.

215

I liked how, when 0bama tried to complain about the intolerant #134/JS types at Palin's rallies, McCain stood up for the base. He then turned it back on 0 and the shirts worn at HIS rallies - at which point 0 changed the subject back to "issues". SMACKDOWN!

(And if Awesome Happy Fun Guy! wants to ding me for saying that, let 'im.)

216

Joe  the plumber, meet joe the six-pak...

Rawwrrrrr.

Forget joe the scranton.

217 Hey, did you guys see the response of Sarah Palin's lawyers to the Tasergate report?

http://tinyurl.com/4k6hf7

It's ball-dipping good.

218 oops --

http://tinyurl.com/bwdek

219 "We are in the middle of global financial meltdowns and we're discussing friggin Columbia."

If you don't understand how the back-and-forth about free trade with Columbia was directly relevant to the larger global financial meltdown, and especially to differentiating how the two candidates would respond to that meltdown then, respectfully, you don't really know what you're talking about.

220 On the  Luntz focus group on FOX not a SINGLE person raised their hand to say they thought McCain won.

The Luntz group thought Palin won, IIRC. That worked out well. Mark Halperin of Time:

Still, if a majority of persuadable voters watched the debate, they saw why McCain’s advisers have faith in him and still believe he can win this race.

On Obama:

During the first half of the debate, too often displayed his worst traits–petty, aloof, imperious–and behaved as if he had someplace better to be, although he became warmer and more engaged as the evening progressed. Did not seem to have an explicit strategy; instead, he answered the questions piecemeal as they came his way, without driving a message or even a theme. Retained his consistently unflappable air, and had a few fine moments. If he was sitting on his lead, it worked - but perhaps at the expense of relinquishing part of it.

221 214 ace: I respect what you're saying, but I don't think Mac could have shifted the momentum in this debate. What he could do is show the base that he wasn't going to throw us under the bus anymore. That he did.

222 All you 1/4-millionaires out there can suck it! SUCK IT I SAY!!!

223 Republications?  OK ... pass me that wine bottle, would ya?  It ain't empty yet.

224 Flush the turds out of DC!

Vote for Joe the Plumber!

225 Did we watch the same debate?  I saw Obama on the defensive through the entire debate.

McCain: "I'm a federalist", "freeze spending"

Obama:  "[I'm a socialist]", "spread the wealth"

226

McCain didn't hurt himself, and did score points. I wish he didn't run from the Ayers thing though.

He did much better than the 1st two debates.

227

Because whatever Obama is, he's not the guy responsible for the subprime crisis.   McCain is. 

In the public mind, I mean.

As a Concerned Christian Republican, but also as a graduate student taking finance and accounting courses...I think McCain took the right tack tonight by not dwelling too heavily on the subprime crisis. Fact is, most of my classmates, and many of the faculty, don't really understand or else can't agree on what is going on in the world economy right now. To expect a candidate to communicate his stance and why not he but rather his opponent is responsible, in soundbite format, is simply not feasible.

McCain needed to appear credible on economic issues. Check. He needed to appear to "care" about Joe the Plumber. Check. And he had to look more trustworthy than Obama. Check.

Hammering, blaming, and talking economics would have merely made Obama's smirk a knowing smirk, rather than a sleazy assholish smirk.

 

228 I thought the lady in the front row was Deb Frisch.

She had teh crazee eyes.

229 McCain did just fine, the best part about it was the McCain's face when Obama lied about his health care plan.  I think it finally sunk into McCain what he is dealing with.  I think the gloves will now come off after this debate.

Remember McCain isn't very far behind.  He didn't need to do as much as everyone thinks.  He sowed the seeds of doubt and will water them generously the next 3 weeks.  You watch.

230 OBAMA'S TAX PLAN IS THE SAME AS BUSH'S IN 2000!

In 2000 the centerpiece of Bush's campaign was he was going to cut everybody a check if he won.  I thought the idea stunk then, although I still voted for Bush because Gore was such a tool.  The same with Obama's "tax cut".  Vote for me and I'll give you a payoff.  It was a bribe in 2000, and it's still a bribe now. 

I wanted to scream at the screen that neither McCain, or anybody else remembers this!   Come on everybody, get the word out!  Obama's tax plan is the same as Bush's!

231 #210 You folks that think McCain won this in any way are deluding yourselves. 
On the  Luntz focus group on FOX not a SINGLE person raised their hand to say they thought McCain won.
Hilarious!
Posted by: sisyphus at October 15, 2008 11:25 PM (D/pgX)

Um, that's because Luntz didn't ask them to raise their hands if they thought McCain won.

232

...in which ace raises the question "is it possible to troll on your own blog?"

Seriously though, Fanny/Freddie/CRA probably had the potential to be a winning issue. It sure as hell isn't the only one though. A win in this debate is not a loss in the election. McCain doesn't need to be desperate. (that "last chance" shit was at the top of the O camp talking points. Isn't that enough to make you dismisss it?)

And as John Rambo said, "Nothing is over!!!"

233 The next three weeks will be a giant house warming party put on by the MSM for Obama.

There won't even be any discussions about any election outcome except the scope of Obama's landslide victory. 

You know it's true. 

Palin will be blamed.

It's better to start facing the reality, now.  It's all so very disappointing.

Bring on the cats.

234 Why so angry?

Posted by: Jim Treacher at October 15, 2008 11:21 PM (NV3P1 3

Because I've had 3 rum-n-cokes.  Oh, and McCain is full of shit.  

Seriously, though, i've had 3 rum-n-cokes in the last hour.  That's like having one of those blue flowers from Batman Begins - it lets you see there truth.  I saw the truth and McCain blew it.  Really, truly and honestly I still think he still has a chance to win... no I don't.  No I don't.  He's Dole all over again.  Of course, there isn't a Perot this time, so maybe he has that going for him.

I really and truly do not believe in McCain.  He made the awesomest of choices with Palin.  He had the opportunity to start changing the country right there and then, but he pulled a fucking Bush and hid the truth behind closed doors, like it's something precious and can't share with anyone.

Then, and I've made this anology before, he put the vicitm on the stand to be questioned by the rapist who is representing themselves.  And he markets himself as a fighter?  Fuck that. 

235 #210

They also said that they still don't trust Obama.

236 Wow. I love your blog, but I listened on the radio and McCain absolutely "won,"if winning means that he created serious doubt about Obama's core values and where he would take this country. Sen. McCain also came off as someone who just knows a lot more about the world than does Sen. Obama (the comments about the Columbia free trade agreement, for example). Maybe the visuals were distracting?

237 This was McCain's best debate.  Real polling would show a statistical dead heat.  Mav had to play it safe.  He'll let the campain and Palin do the confrontational stuff.

238 Thought McCain was way better. Was smiling and taking the piss out of Obama throughout. Obama seemed ruffled and put off to me. HE rambled with some of his responses, which did seem like amateurish bureaucratic interfering in people's lives (or they did to me).

McCain main great headway out of the "spread the wealth around" remarks Obama made on the campaign train recently, particularly by addressing to "Joe the plumber" straight down the barrel of the camera were great and warning him that is was his wealth that Obama was about to spread (read: take).

Although McCain did not directly pin sub-prime on him as you say, Ace, he hit Obama hard about Ayers (lauched his political career in Ayers living room - not house, living room and laughed while was saying this - awesome) and associations and Acorn. Obama's guilt in this matter is purely guilt by association, so it can't be laid squarely and provably at his door. The public have to put 2 and 2 together and make a character judgment for themselves. There were enough unanswered questions to sow doubt.

McCain ironically praising Obama for his "eloquence" and then offering to decode Obama's speech for the audience. brilliant.

It seems now that we are seeing enough of the real Obama for McCain to be able to create a aura of uncertainly around him: Just what is Obama gonna do? The more he talks the more he sounds like a real socialist. That freaks people out. When Obama says he wants to take America in a fundamentally different direction he means it!

And it's not just a different direction to the last 8 years as he says. It's different to the entire history of the United States. It's socialism.



The best quote  goes to Obama: Can anyone remember it exactly? Paraphrasing it was something like: If it seems incredible that I would vote to allow sick infants to die, then it isnt true.

There was a look of horror on his face as those words came out.  He knew he'd f*cked up. He had elaborated and added meat to McCains accusation against him, by filling in the horrible visual blanks. Not much of a lawyer there. I wonder how he'd go against Ahmadinajad. (spelling)

Audience gut response to this remark: First gut-wrenching horror. Then loss of confidence from seeing surprise at his own mistake. Then, cynical thoughts: OK sure, if it's bad it's not true. we get it.

239 Well, KLo just promised to resign if NRO crashes on election day, which seems a sure bet.

240

I think ol' Johnny Mac will be #44.

241 "You folks that think McCain won this in any way are deluding yourselves.

"On the  Luntz focus group on FOX not a SINGLE person raised their hand to say they thought McCain won.

"Hilarious!"

I thought Obama won the debate, but McCain fought honorably, which is all I could reasonably ask of him.

Obama is a competent hard-left idealogue with self-chosen radical anti-American roots.

If the American people choose someone like that as their President after McCain lays out the facts, and he did, then that's their business. They'll suffer the consequences, and so will you. And me, perhaps.

242

With practically anybody else but McCain this debate could have been a great one. I think Sarah Palin would have been rolling on the floor, laughing so hard at the BS that Obama puts out. I think if McCain had let loose with one belly laugh when Obama went on about Ayres, or Acorn, he would win the election by a landslide.

McCain is the best choice we have right now, but he will not be a good President. He just does not have the personality to be a President. He is way too much the Senator. He does not seem to have the ability to nail someone's hide to the wall. The sooner we can get through this next four years and get someone like Sarah Palin in there, the better off we will be.

243 All Obama did was smirk while getting rammed in the ass. He lost.

244

If you don't understand how the back-and-forth about free trade with Columbia was directly relevant to the larger global financial meltdown, and especially to differentiating how the two candidates would respond to that meltdown then, respectfully, you don't really know what you're talking about.

Which group of voters do you think McCain swayed with that, McCain voters, PUMAS (who rather light themselves on fire than vote for Obama), Obama voters or undecided?

You guys do understand that there is an election coming up in a couple weeks and we are the party taking the heat for an economic collapse and far behind in the polls, right?  Who gives a shit if McCain voters think he won on points.  Did he bring in new voters, thats all that matters.

245 McCain has four things to hammer Obama on that will resonate

Spending
Taxes to "spread the wealth"
School vouchers
Abortion

Those seem to hit some  points even with obama supporters.  He needs to hammer the "Big Spender"  idea.  $700bil bailout + $860 bil additional spending  =  a national  debt you can't jump over and your great grand children will wonder what the hell you were thinking.

246 adam RIGHT ON THE MONEY im telling ya guys...put the bottle down, and get off your ass and get pumped! ppl are LIEING to the pollsters..I KNOW, I DID.....and in public in most places, its not even SAFE or career wise to say you ARE NOT for Obama...sheesh, you will get SO harrassed.

247 Yes he lost this debate, and probably the election too.

He allowed himself to be painted as a "Bush Clone".  Seeing as how running from Bush didn't do him any good, wonder what would have happened if he had actually STOOD UP for Bush a few times like this ...

"Hey Senator, you keep beating this droning drum of 'Bush this' and 'Bush that' ... and it would appear to me that you have a rather unhealthy fixation on George W. Bush.  It makes you sound rather 'conspiratorial', you know - like those 9-11 conspiracy theorists that believe Bush blew up the twin towers - you aren't one of THOSE GUYS are you?

You keep talking about the 'failed Bush policies' ... but which specific polices are you talking about?  We already know you're not happy about the Iraq war ... both you and Osama Bin Laden are very upset that Bush actually gave freedom to 25 million Iraqis.  I know that their freedom upsets you, and that is why you voted to defund the troops and declare defeat.

But what other policies of his specifically did you disagree with?"

248 Ace, you just need to get Team Mav to tie in Joe the Plumber with FM/FM in an ad.

249 Editor: You seriously need a Hydrochloric Acid enema. Drunken asshole.

McCain won. Flat out. Anyone who said otherwise needs to commit suicide.

250 My mother, who voted for Carter for chrissakes, just called and told me Obama looked shady and condescending.

Its not over.

251 I heard the debate on the radio; No clear win for McCain but Obama got a lot more exposed - lets see if McCain and Co can follow-up with pointed adverts in these final few days.

From what I've read so far about the visuals Obama was sending, I'd say McCain had a firm win for those truly sitting on the fence.

252

I was livid for the first 20 minutes. Bob Schieffer and even Obama lobbed some softballs to McCain that he could have hit out of the park and out of the frickin stadium. There were two moments that begged for McCain to spend 2 minutes discussing the financial crisis. I don't get the argument that its too hard to explain:

Democrats --> Fannny/Freddie --> subprime mortgages --> Financial crisis Top Democrats like Sen Dodd, Rep. Frank and Sen. Obama said no to my bill to reform Fannie/Freddi but yes to assloads of cash from Fannie/Freddie.

How hard is that?

I was screaming at the TV when he chose not to hit this. McCain did better and better as the debate went on and there was one moment were Obama was continuously nodding in approval for about 20 seconds. McCain missed a golden opportunity to tout the significantly better pay of women working for his staff when Obama brought up the equal pay court case.

253 Wait. He did bring up Freddie & Fannie.

254 McCain/Palin CAN still win it. Don't give up. Don't help them lose.

255 236 #210

They also said that they still don't trust Obama.---

Yeah, I'm convinced we saw the Bradley effect on video. And heck with the democrats Race card being pulled at every turn would YOU want to say on national television you weren't impressed with the Messaih?

Perchance you say he won because he strung together nonsensical platitudes with big words in between that sound nice to the ear, but you're not voting for him because you don't trust him.

256 With all due respect, not to be a killjoy, but we'll see what the polls say.

Polls. Polls. Polls. Polls. Polls.

If a poll disagrees with you, that means you didn't see what you saw or hear what you heard.

257 I think McCain still wins too, I don't get the chicken little shit. Why are people on the right already discussing an Obama presidency? I think Obama's numbers are always off-kilter for whatever reason. If McCain loses it will be because people on the right are deflating the base. I am not saying we shouldn't be realistic, but there is no reason to stop being an energetic happy warrior until the day after the election. Regardless of the outcome, the movement needs refocusing, but let's send Obama back to the Senate first.

258 >>>Ace, you just need to get Team Mav to tie in Joe the Plumber with FM/FM in an ad.

I keep suggesting it.

Not interested.

Look, McCain did some good things here tonight.   But he did some good things in the other debates.   So why does he lose ground?

He  loses ground because compared to the economic catastrophe on our  hands all issues -- including foreign policy, Ayers, abortion, Obama's lies and corruption -- are secondary.

Look at 1992.  A corrupt and shallow man with no foreign policy experience and a history of sleaze won the election.

Why?

It's the economy stupid.

Yes, McCain did some good things tonight on the economy.  But the biggest card out there he REFUSES to play.

259 It's Colombia.  The country.  Not Columbia, the school in NY where Obama hung out with Ayers.

260 McCain won. Flat out. Anyone who said otherwise needs to commit suicide.

I think McCain helped himself in this debate, which is a bit of a paradox when I say he lost it.

Here's what I mean.

To the degree that a debate is a popularity contest and people have a gut after-debate reaction, Obama won. Why? McCain attacked and that doesn't make people feel good.

Luntz data and after-debate polls will show Obama won.

However, McCain had to attack and get some of these issues out there himself to get the media to talk about them. And people to think about them. So the long term "few days later" effect should help McCain.

All politics aside, I'm simply proud of him. I think he did what he could do and honourably went on the offense with truth and justice.

261 "not to be a killjoy" Don't stop being a killjoy, ace; it's what I've been coming back for 3 years to read you for. Seriously though, I wish he would have come out swinging on the whole subprime thing, but to me personally it was even more gratifying to see him reduce Obama to a smarmy idiot on just about every policy discussed tonight. Again, I think he could have attacked Obama's position on the bailout, but taking Mcain's performance in its entirety, I think he did fine without mentioning it. That being said, he needs to let loose the dogs of war and disembowel this disingenuous hack for the liar he is while he still has a (slight) chance. -V

262 I'll add that I think that Colombia free trade is another winner if he keeps it simple and reminds people what he said tonight: jobs are created by selling our goods to other countries.  Open Markets = Jobs. 

263 Did the turfers come out of the fucking woodwork tonight, or am I just drunk on  the lingering after effects of the awesomely awesome debate?

264 250 Editor: You seriously need a Hydrochloric Acid enema. Drunken asshole.

McCain won. Flat out. Anyone who said otherwise needs to commit suicide.

Posted by: Baka Omaeda at October 15, 2008 11:35 PM (Z9IOH)

Very nice. 

265 Columbia was -another- place where Obama massively lied.  The unions -support- the agreement.

AND NO ONE CARES.

Qwinn

266

You guys do understand that there is an election coming up in a couple weeks and we are the party taking the heat for an economic collapse and far behind in the polls, right?  Who gives a shit if McCain voters think he won on points.  Did he bring in new voters, thats all that matters.

Yes, I do. And no, he didn't.

Partly because of his hairbrained failure to hit the dems on the topic of the economic troubles which you yourself mention.

I say we focus on the congressional races.

Obviously, McCain's never overcome his hesitancy about attacking the other party (a product, perhaps, of his career in teh so-called "collegial" senate.)

 

267 Obama was as smooth as the rich tobacco taste of my Virginia Slims.

268 I have never wanted more to be wrong before.

I hope you guys are right. 

Certainly as i watched I thought mccain won  on almost every exchange.

But I fear there is One  Issue and Only  One Issue so McCain can fuck about on all this other stuff but it doesn't change things.

Long story short:  Sure, Obama is inexperienced and liberal, but  HE ISN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRISIS LIKE McCAIN IS.

269 Don't be calling each other names.  At least any more than we usually do, morons.  Everyone here is going to vote Maverick.  He deserves some of the criticism he's taking, but at the same time he did fine.  And don't forget PUMAs are new voters.  The plumber Joes will be new voters as well. They are going to vote for McCain.    Get the complaints off your chest tonight and get back to work tomorrow.
And remember the press was certain of the Iraqi civil war, and that John Kerry won the presidency and that Maliki was bogged down in Basra.  Look McCain isn't the candidate the conservatives wanted or the candidate the PUMAs wanted.  So he's not going to make any of us happy all the time.  But he can win.  He's better than the alternative and at the end of the day he will win.

270 Eh, Ferraro is on Fox and she's even pushing up Obama. I hope the PUMAs aren't going to follow her.

271 Harry good luck with that...good lord he wont be a good president because "He just does not have the personality to be a President."...??? right. you want a game show host, go for it. thats why we are IN this mess....know who had a good personality, John Edwards. ha and I see its also important to you that our Commander in Chief should be able to "nail someone's hide to the wall." wow...good priorities. stop trying to convince ppl in here to just give up and pray for Pain in 4 years...its disingenuous....you know perfectly well that we all know if Obama gets in now, with the strengthening of ACORN or their evil spawn, and pelosi and reed rigging everything in sight, plus the end of conservative radio to get a message out that is anything other ther then the MSM (which will go UNCHECKED and thrive under Obama)....then its OVER for conservatism so I dont buy what your selling

272 Joe the Plumber says NO to Senator Government!

273

My favorite part of the whole debate (I loved it even more than the "I'm not Bush" line) was this:

When they were talking about education, Socialist Barry started blabbing about funding and John McCain said:

Notice that his answer for everything is that we need to spend more.  (paraphrased, obviously)

That sums up this election in a nutshell.  Obama wants to throw more and more of (our) money at any liberal program, whether it works or not.

274 >>>Ace, you just need to get Team Mav to tie in Joe the Plumber with FM/FM in an ad.

I keep suggesting it.

Not interested.

Don't Ace commenter have zee mad skillz making kick ass you tubes? Get to work, so the RNC the what for!

275

Posted by: ace at October 15, 2008 11:40 PM (1WR4H)

What ace is basically saying is easily understood by way of analogy.

Let's say you went on a date with a young woman and she thought you were nice, friendly, good-natured, and

But you left her dryer than an Iraqi desert in August, colder than an Alaskan salmon at 50 feet under the surface of the sea, and her heart less inspired than a normal teenager reading the Wall Street Journal.

McCain missed the core issue.

276

That being said, he needs to let loose the dogs of war and disembowel this disingenuous hack for the liar he is while he still has a (slight) chance.

Yeah, or we could've nominated a republican.

Not saying you're wrong, mind you. But fat chance. This was the big opportunity to do it, and he failed. Miserably.

277 No one gives a fuck about subprime mortgages. There. I said it. No one gives a damn about it because all the people who took them are voting for Obama. McCain, if he used that issue as his base points, would have been killed. Plain out.

McCain did what he needed to do, and now it's time for the ads to kill Obama. And with McCain using Joe The Plumber, someone who actually connects with America, there will be a win.

Stop being a surrender porch monkey, Ace. Or go throw yourself off a cliff.

278 The sub prime crisis was framed an eternity ago. McCains refusal to be partisan has cost him the election. It's 1995 all over again, if you don't speak up, you get run over. We just got run over. Thanks for nothing John.

279 Enough with the fucking pessimism. IBD, off by less than half a percentage point in '04, has the race within 3 points. That's without the possibility of a Bradley effect and late deciders who've heard about Obama's associations for months.

There's still 20 days before the election -- a lifetime in politics. Mahoney was on the way to re-election a few days ago. Now RCP is calling his chances all but gone.

McCain's not in a good position, but he's not done as a candidate.

280 ace at October 15, 2008 11:40 PM (1WR4H)

I told you when he vomited out Frank and Dodd at the townhall; that he'd never do it again. He does not want to name names. And that's his problem.

So many names need to be named and he won't do it.

281 Yikes- I meant Colombia, not Columbia. Thanks for the correction.

282 ACE how could you have spent so much time in the land of PUMA and come out such a defeatist? PUMAS fight harder then you....

283 195 obama was on his heels all nite...

listen to the PUMAS, they have more ooomph thean you white flag raisers....ugh

All you eeyores, do as christy says, go read Letter to the Republican party from a concerned PUMA.

Do it now!

284

Crikey, we need a whole fleet of whaaaa-mbluances here tonight. Man up bitches.

FOX=MSNBC now IMO, I am done with them.

285

Kimberly's chirpy optimism reminds me of a scene from the movie version of Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse 5", where a bunch of British and American prisoners are stuffed w/o food, water or blankets into an unheated freight car and sent off across Germany to their POW camp.

One guy keeps saying "This ain't bad.  You think this is bad?  I've seen bad, during the last war.  This is nothing."

When the train arrives at the camp and the Nazi guards open the doors, guess who's lying open-mouthed and very dead?

That guy.

 

286 Ace, I see your point, but I think McCain did a decent job of raising doubts about Obama.  In the end game, that's really what he needed to do.

287 The press could turn this into a full Obama rout, but I think McCain may have actually done well considering the circumstances. Others are definitely going to have to work 24/7 to pull him over the finish line, though.

288 O/T,  but has anyone googled Scott Levenson lately?

Heh.

289 Sorry Ace but I thought McCain clearly won this round.

Obama lied repeatedly and danced around several major issues.

290 Ace @ 269

I hear ya, but I also think (hope?) that McCain's mentioning of ACORN and tying Obama to it will have some resonance.

Americans don't like cheaters (unless they're NE Patriots fans).  If they hear that Obama is involved in any way with a group that is deliberately trying to undermine the election, that will have an impact.  Don't forget that CNN (of all organizations!) is digging into them hard.

291 The obvious is absolutely right.  Most Republicans are going to vote for McCain-Palin.  More than 38% PUMAs are going to vote for McCain-Palin.

I really believe Obama's smirks and laughing while McCain was talking about ACORN and voter fraud will resonate in the average Joe's mind.  He didn't look overconfident.  He looked like an elitist asshole.

292 "I have never wanted more to be wrong before."

For what it's worth, I think you're oversimplifying a bit. Doing good on all those other issues has to help McCain, he's within the margin of error in some polls, and there's still a few weeks to go.

The odds are against him, but it's not hopeless.

Earlier today you and I (and others here) felt so strongly that he should fight for your cause since the party granted him the honor or the nomination that you were willing to consider turning your focus to House and Senate races.

Tonight I believe McCain earned your ongoing and vigorous support even if you disagree with his strategy.

293 "No one gives a fuck about subprime mortgages" Well, people do give a fuck that the economy of THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD just went down the shitter. If you don't explain why, the democrats will explain it for you. Thats what happened, and thats why McCain will lose.

294 Drew

You so don't get the puma's. They just really, really don't like Obama in a visceral way and have basically forsaken many of their virtues and crossed over to the dark side.

It's not about politics anymore to them, it's war.

295 I skipped the debate and have no opinion on that, but no matter what happens, can we keep the lolcats?

They're very cute.

296 lorien the average joe doesnt give a shit about naming names...if they DID then Barney "gay prostitution ring" frank wouldnt be the head of anything!!! the heard TAX TAX TAX and they saw Obambi SWEAT SWEAT SWEAT

297 "Everyone here is going to vote Maverick."

Hey, maybe I should get in touch with Acorn, do a quick trip over the border, and vote Maverick. What's sauce for the goose...

298 To reinforce some of the statements here, Ace, you should be the last person to become a surrender monkey.  This is when McCain needs you most.  After he's elected, you can attack at will.

299 Sometimes God uses the small and the humble to lay the mighty low.

Joe the Plumber is the stone in David's slingshot.

300 On the  Luntz focus group on FOX not a SINGLE person raised their hand to say they thought McCain won.

Uh, that's because Luntz didn't ask them who thought McCain won. He asked who thought Obama won and even then one of those said he still wasn't voting for Obama.

301 my argentine friends said they LOVED it when mccain said SENATOR OBAMA, I AM NOT PRESIDENT BUSH, IF YOU WANTED TO RUN AGAINST PRESIDENT BUSH YOU SHOULD HAVE RUN FOUR YEARS AGO. they are all ike WOW WOW, that was buenisimo!

302 "PUMAS fight harder then you...." They lost too...

303 I don't get what is so PUSSY about saying my guy didn't man up?  What is PUSSY about that?  Seriously, the NOT BUSH line was very, very good.  But then he went back to his old self.

Anything short of calling Barry a liar to his face was not going to be enough for me.  McCain is so full of shit with his fight to reform crap.  There was no fight in him.  He has so many opportunities to nail him and he let them slip. 

304 For the record, dave in comment #49 isn't me

305 You so don't get the puma's.

Topsecretk9

Considering most of them are women, that's simply the story of my life.

306 278 No one gives a fuck about subprime mortgages. There. I said it. No one gives a damn about it because all the people who took them are voting for Obama. McCain, if he used that issue as his base points, would have been killed. Plain out.

I have to agree with that.  Look, we know it was the Dems, but the rest of the world is just thinking "OMG!  I owe on a house I can't afford and lost my job!  Who is going to save me?"  The government is going to do that because that is what Obama has promised.  However, some of them are still conservative "Joe Six Pack" people who don't want to be told they are worthless scumbags for buying a house they couldn't afford or had no idea that they were going to lose their job and be unable to afford.  They aren't all assholes, you know.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who are panicking and looking for any ship in the harbor.  McCain has not given them a good reason to believe that their own ship is sea worthy and can make it.  So, blaming it on the "any port in the storm" Obama isn't going to win McCain any points except with "the base". 

307 milesdei I LOVE That you said that!!! I swear it is so right on!! JOE is the game changer...

308 Let's talk about climate control.

309 I like the kittens too.

310 "Uh, that's because Luntz didn't ask them who thought McCain won. He asked who thought Obama won and even then one of those said he still wasn't voting for Obama."

That's pretty thin gruel.

311 Posted by: christy at October 15, 2008 11:50 PM (fM0gW)

I totally disagree. McCain said it once tonight "how's that democrat congress working out for you?" He should have repeated it over and over again. Repeated names about the most ethical congress ever.

Both Obama and McCain ran against washington tonight; McCain had the better opportunity given that he's not part of the tax evading Rangel, loan stealing Dodd, corrupt Frank, no witch hunt pelosi, etal.

312 No more cats, please. Seriously. I think the shit weather here in Seattle is contributing to Editor's mood. (I think he's in Seattle, anyway.) McCain did well, he missed a few open doors and Obama was Obama. What's new? McCain isn't suddently going to become someone he hasn't been. Poor Joe. He had no idea what he was in for. There's probably media parked in his yard.

313 Hey, what can I say?  I've always looked at life with a half-full glass.  What has that gotten me?  A wonderful life, a beautiful daughter, a great job, friends for life, a really nice house.  It's so much better than being a pessimistic asswipe, right fulldroolcup?

314

FWIW, I haven't been following the campaign much in the last few days (in part because of Treacher's advice and in part because of work) but I thought McCain kept punching Obama in the mouth on issue after issue. I thought he could have hit Bambi a little harder on abortion, but he did bring up the BIAPA which was critical.

As for polls, Ace, you know damn well the polls will all show Obama won the debate - those polls could have been released BEFORE the debate. There will also be polls such as today's SeeBS/NYT showing Obama up by 78 points as the MSM tries to bury conservative voters. I still think Rush's prediction about the polls will be accurate - they'll be very close leading up to Nov. 4.

And for those who are laying out the cloth for the seppuku ceremony, fuck you. It's McCain or socialism. Get with it.

315 I think McCain hurt Obama more than most people realize. When Obama loses Joe the plumber, he's lost America. People are going to ask themselves how the hell you can spread the wealth by taking it away from ordinary people like themselves. They're going to say "Barry, you want to spread the wealth? Why don't you start by giving away your own money?

316 "Wait. He did bring up Freddie & Fannie."

Yeah, but see, then he moved on, instead of going into detail about the fact that the money's gone, it's all gone, everyone's going to lose their house and be out on the street, except for the RICH FAT CATS who caused it all. At least, that's what the American "undecideds" would have heard if McCain had been so foolish as to try to throw Obama into that briar patch*, and they would also have remembered all those houses McCain owned, and that he's married to some rich heiress lady, and they would remember their own situations and how they can't sell their house or that their house payments went up or that they're about to be foreclosed on, and then they would look at Obama, and say to themselves "He's black, so he can't be a RICH FAT CAT because everyone knows that even if you have zillions of dollars like Oprah or are on the verge of being elected leader of the most powerful nation in the world a black person can't be a RICH FAT CAT because only white Republicans are RICH FAT CATS. And we hateses them! We hateses RICH FAT REPUBLICAN CATS forever!" Also Democrats are the party that cares about poor people, in the minds of the "undecided."

McCain is really better off not mentioning the subprime mortgage unpleasantness. Most Americans in the "undecided" camp don't want to think about it, because it hits too close to home and as well it makes them feel stupid because they signed those mortgage papers. They won't vote for anyone who makes them feel stupid. So getting Obama to look condescending and smug was the best thing McCain could have done.

*Yes, I know, Uncle Remus references are RACIST!

317 For the record, dave in comment #49 isn't me

Posted by: CanaDave at October 15, 2008 11:52 PM (c2m+j)

For the record, christy in comment #302, who has a different nickname than me, isn't me.

318 Im not going to defend a man YOU should be defending http://tiny.cc/tIHPm

319 "I think McCain hurt Obama more than most people realize. When Obama loses Joe the plumber, he's lost America."

I don't think there's any reason whatsoever to believe Joe the plumber will vote for McCain. He asked tough questions of one of the two candidates, and both candidates addressed him tonight during the debate. Besides, Joe says he isn't saying who he'll vote for, canny dog.

I predict his business skyrockets! He seems pretty damn smart and entrepreneurial.

320 Ace,

I think you should be cautious before drawing too many conclusions from 1992.  Remember the crucial difference:  there was a third party spoiler in 1992, without which Clinton probably wouldn't have won.

Worth considering, I think.

321 Senator Government shat his pants, Johnnymac did fine.


If you expect the polls to change over this, you're not paying attention.

322 Another huge blown opportunity on subprime, I agree.

CNN gave instant graphed responses from undecided voters in Ohio. Men generally favored McCain and women generally favored Obama. Women disliked McCain attacking Obama.  But the very instant that McCain mentioned Palin, the women's curves went down, and I mean waaay down.  The women's curve barely got back to the zero line after McCain went on and on about special needs kids.

What could explain such a visceral reaction?  Cattiness?  Could this be the first election in history decided by cattiness?

323 And another thing, we need more cats, more kittens, and of course, more pussies.

324 "I don't think there's any reason whatsoever to believe Joe the plumber will vote for McCain. He asked tough questions of one of the two candidates, and both candidates addressed him tonight during the debate. Besides, Joe says he isn't saying who he'll vote for, canny dog."


Actually, in an interview on Fox (it's over on HA), Plumber Joe said that Obama sketched him out pretty well with his response....

325 Don't give up, Ace. This isn't Little Bighorn; if we lose, we keep on living, and we have the chance of paying back in kind. But this election is not decided, no matter how hard they cheat, until Election Day; and if there's any chance at all, I'm hauling my gun-loving religious Republican butt out and voting McCain/Palin.

326 Liz Sidoti of the Associated Press:

"John McCain Kept Barack Obama On The Defensive … By That Measure, McCain Won The Last Debate Of The 2008 Campaign."

327

There's something to be admired in going down
swinging in the last of the ninth inning, down
by three runs. McCain took the bat off his shoulder and flailed at one fast ball, then
waited for a walk. Ohbama sat smirking in the
opposition dugout looking like the Cheshire
cat, knowing the game was in the bag. Shit
floats to the top in this season of a Democrat tide. The Pubs and McCain aren't worth the
the money it would take to keep them in toilet
paper. If McCain refuses to FIGHT, then so
do I. A welfare pimp will bring his legions
to the seat of power to reign for years......
and McCain will be sitting there, proud, that
he lost while fighting the good fight....
while, in reality, fighting for nothing more
than going after his own president and party
with far more zeal than he did against his
current election adversary. He'll once again
have his treasured MSM support....on Jan. 21
2009. Hope to hell he enjoys it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

328 Kensington @ 321

Yes!  In '92, only 4 out of 10 voted for Clinton.  Candidates usually lose elections with that kind of vote tally.

329 Joe the Plumber only told Neil Cavuto he would vote for McCain, then the men in black showed up at his home and he will now remain silent until its just him and the lever

330 Besides, Joe says he isn't saying who he'll vote for, canny dog.
Obviously, Joe doesn't want his tires slashed or his car keyed.

331 OK I've calmed down and now I'm ready to say that McCain did well. What I realized is that Barry had to lie to combat McCain on all the issue where he was left wanting. This is the new debate tactic, if you can't win, lie. So, since Obama was lying A LOT, well, McCain must have been doing pretty well. Of course no one will call Obama out on his fibs and that's why my initial reaction was upset!!!

332

Joe the plumber says:

Wurzelbacher's name came up again when the debate turned to a discussion of health care policies.

He said Obama's reaction on the tax question left him feeling uneasy.

"I didn't think much of it the first time I heard it," Wurzelbacher said, adding that he still thinks Obama's plan would keep him from buying the business.

About McCain: "He's got it right as far as I go."

333

"I think McCain did fine.  He -did- bring up many of the points that I thought he should - and more than I expected.  He called Obama out and forced Obama to lie.

You can't expect him to do more than that.  And God knows I'm willing to bash McCain, so this isn't just sucking up.

The problem is that Obama is -getting away with the lies-.  That's not McCain's fault.  Everyone - and I mean everyone - is giving Obama a pass on them."

Bingo. Same was true for the Biden-Palin debate. One side can say anything and just have it flat out ignored, style has completely usurped substance.

334 @Christoph: Was just saying...people keep stealing my nickname

335 "Actually, in an interview on Fox (it's over on HA), Plumber Joe said that Obama sketched him out pretty well with his response...."

He could well not be answering the question of who he'll vote for (why piss off 40% of the market) for business reasons. If he plays his cards right, he can market himself into millions, which means he should vote for McCain.

336 I'm going to look into my super secret magic 8 ball crystal ball, and predict that the MSM will come out with a poll that shows Obama up by 6 points.

K

337 303 "PUMAS fight harder then you...."

They lost too...

Actually, I believe PUMAs think they won the popular vote and got cheated - yes, cheated by fraud - in the caucuses and at the convention. Imagine that! Obama might have employed vote fraud in the primaries. 

338 "That's pretty thin gruel."

Or, you know, a fact.  Luntz never asked McCain supporters to show their hands, only Obama supporters.

339 Maybe I'm a rainbow rider, but to me, I think Obama refusing to denounce John Lewis is all it will take for the barrage of Ayers/ACORN ads to deluge the swing states.  McCain gave him a chance to save face, but Obama refused to buy in.  If John Lewis, an elected representative & civil rights hero, is allowed to escaped unharmed, then McCain is free to tar & feather anyone Obama has associated himself with over the years.

It's simple:
- Obama called him out
- McCain called him out, back
- Obama punted
- McCain fires with both barrels

Result:
- Obama basically called McCain a pussy, but now gets shown to be one himself.

Tomorrow's NYT Headline:
- John McCain is Racist

The truth, as seen by the great unwashed:
- Barack Obama won't call out a "brutha"  Race first.

340

If case you didn't watch ABC, I thought their fact check after was mostly positive for McCain (3 out of 4 scored for McCain):

1) Joe plumber fined? False, they agree with Obama about Obama's plan.

2) Ayers. Fact checker says this is false but quickly explains that while the Obama campaign says that this isn't true because their campaign was launched in a Ramada Inn, he goes on to say that they did have several "coffees" held during the same time period and one of them WAS held at Ayers home. He then added "but its not clear if that one was even specifically for Obama" but at least to me the damage is done. I think people will be more receptive to McCain attack ads on Ayers now that they know that its grounded in some truth.

3) Obama says 100% of McCain adds false. "That's simply not true."

4) Obama says he only worked for ACORN as a lawyer in one case. Fact check says "well that's not true." He went on to say Obama had deeper connections to subsidiaries and affiliates and did give 800,000 including 80,000 that went directly to ACORN.

In two cases he basically called Obama a liar and on Ayers he gave Obama  a sort of technically correct point but established that an Ayers connection existed. The ACORN fact check was a bona fide home run for McCain.

341 Hi, it's Christoph. In honor of my Canadian father, I've changed my nickname.

342 Then again, you're a Fred guy, so you already knew that.

343 #274 That sums up this election in a nutshell. Obama wants to throw more and more of (our) money at any liberal program, whether it works or not.

Did you notice how Obama talked about how he was going to make sure the $700B would be recovered for us, the taxpayers; like he would give it all back to us? What a crock of shit, once $700B, let alone $1, falls into the black hole of Senator Government, it's gone forever. [Yeah, yeah, unintentional racist remark]

344

and in public in most places, its not even SAFE or career wise to say you ARE NOT for Obama...sheesh, you will get SO harrassed.

Christy, absolutely! I watch my McCain voting friends, every day, drop their heads when Obama's name is mentioned, because they don't want to deal with the shit from his drOnes.

The next three weeks will reflect a slightly widening lead for Obama, as anyone other than the drOnes will have decided that enough is enough, just let me pull the fucking lever already.

The drOnes will be very surprised on election day.

345  279 The sub prime crisis was framed an eternity ago.

Fixing the framing is an uphill battle, but I think it can be done.  And it MUST be done, or else the Mav is fucked.

* Their fault (FM/FM, CRA).  We've got plenty of good quotes from key players:
** Cuomo acknowledging all the risks in the '90s
** Barney Frank's "roll the dice"

* I tried to fix it.  They stopped me.  2003-2006 efforts at regulation.  This is a total winner, is true, and contradicts everything people have been told about the crisis.

* Once the fucking thing blew up in everyone's face, I suspended the campaign and tried to fix it.  Obama did jack shit.  All the Dems cared about is making sure the R's were blamed.  (Pelosi's floor speech is your voiceover there.)

346 What could explain such a visceral reaction?  Cattiness?  Could this be the first election in history decided by cattiness?

Saddly, I think you are right.

It wouldn't be the first time women proved to be their own worst enemies, literally and figuratively.

347

So it is a tax and spend liberal vs a tax cutter, pro growth RINO in the final 2 weeks.  McCain did what he needed to do.  He won this debate and set Obama up. 

 

Let the 527's hit Rezko, Ayers, Wright, Fannie and Freddie.  McCain needs to turn the economy into his strength.  I am not Bush is a good first step, I will not raise taxes is a good second step, I will freeze spending is a great 3rd step.

 

Obama had no defense for those attacks none.  Obama wanted to make it a rich vs poor/middle class issue

McCain made it a government vs the people issue

McCain just changed the debate on the economy and none of the talkign heads can see it. 

 

Senator government vs we the people.

Let's see who wins.  Ace I think your wrong on this.  The 527's can attack the fannie and fredie issue.  McCain needs to be postive on economy no new taxes

348 Obama's Wealth Spread : I can't believe it's not earned!

http://tinyurl.com/4x8fsu
(Article with Image)

349

Look, McCain did some good things here tonight.   But he did some good things in the other debates.   So why does he lose ground?

Because party ID in polling samples keeps changing, obviously, to reflect growing Omega margins.  Look at the Dem-Rep ratio in that silly last NYT poll.  Don't be fooled by it.  It's a statistical dead heat, and we always win those.

Reagan used to laugh when people started playing dirty.  It meant he was winning.  And one of your posters quoted James Carville from '92, to paraphrase, "The leader always claims he's the underdog.  The one in trouble always claims he's winning by a landslide."

Mav's a rock.  Omega is slippery.  That leaps off the TV screen.  Mav never had to "score a knockout punch."  People aren't stupid.  Mav's going to win.

350 Here's the deal: Obama can p;retty much just sit there and repeat himself because McCain will jab on a point and then back off. Obama's not saying anything new becuase he's not been pushed far enough to where he has to. That's McCain's mistake. Obama's only had to swat at McCain, he hasn't acutally had to fight him off.

351 Here is the commercial McCain should run: just show a screencap of the Sarah Palin t-shirt on Obama's website, obviously with the c-word blurred, and then have the announcer say, "If Obama can't treat women with respect on his own website, how will he treat them if he's elected President?" Then watch the gender gap disappear overnight. The media couldn't possibly overlook the t-shirt story then.

352 Lost Near Pittsburgh:
But the very instant that McCain mentioned Palin, the women's curves went down, and I mean waaay down.

Women I have spoken to have no articulate reasons for disliking her...."there's something about her...."

What that is of course is that Sarah Palin activates anxiety in a certain kind of intellectually and emotionally insecure female.

So I guess, yeah, it's cattiness.

Saucer of milk please!

353 Always late, but as my 16 and 14 year old said, and I use them to gauge the electorate, Obama wins.  Er, big. 

I'm late because we had over an hour of lecture on the real issues, what is at stake, what Obama actually said, and we have the luxury of being a family that is clearly middle class (and they know that because their cell phones are crap) and a Daddy who makes more than Obama's magic number, er gross, because he has 12 employees the kiddies know well who probably won't have jobs after the big O gets done with Daddy's business.  Plus we'll be broke also. 

They were fans before I explained that to them.  Well, not so much because they live with me, of course, but they didn't understand why they shouldn't be based on the debate.  And the Ayers bit went smooth over their heads, though oddly the health insurance didn't.  Joe, the plummer, though, they didn't get that until I explained it and Daddy is Greg, the framer. 

McCain couldn't talk to people who want to believe on a level they can relate to. 

354 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y0-_-0EHyE

Believe or not, Chris Matthews skewers Obama and the Governor of New York in this video....

355 Or, you know, a fact.  Luntz never asked McCain supporters to show their hands, only Obama supporters.

Exactly. AND right at the end, he asked who decided they would vote for Obama based on tonight, and four raised their hands. He said, "That means, it was a good night for Obama." But Luntz that MORON, never asked who decided they would vote for McCain based on what happened tonight.

356 Senator Government was the line winner, freudian slip or not. That one's gonna stick and have an effect on this race as well as "Joe Plumber".

357

It would have been nice to correct the Fanny / Freddy lies, but I don't think there was enough time tonight to do much with it. 

We have to hope that we get traction with Joe the Plumber.

I liked to see him pound "spread the wealth"  keep pounding it.  Barry wants to take money from the people who earn it, and give it to the people HE thinks are more deserving.

 

358 For the record, NONE of these other "Daves" are me. My cock is much bigger, for a start.

359

@Christoph: It's too easy to impersonate other people on this.

360 adam h Its sad but true....and when we DO win, first line of order...NEW MEDIA! then we can shout our support from the mountain tops without retribution

361 Be interesting to see a genuine man-on-the-street poll asking:

Which is more important to you, a president that understands the problems with subprime derivatives, or a president who will do things that will raise your taxes or your bosses taxes?

362 Senator Governor is ALL over facebook its a WINNER!

363

#269 you slammed your readers pretty hard the other night for the very pessimism you are showing now.

 

 

364 when Obama tried to dismiss and not repudiate what Lewis said I nearly had a heart attack I was so pissed

365 i can haz pantshiterz?

366 Honestly, McCain has only one way to win now.  Forget the economy.  Forget everything else.  ACORN.  And only ACORN.

ACORN pisses people off.  I know true blue Dems that are completely appalled by ACORN.  And Obama lied flagrantly about it tonight, so flagrantly that even lib factcheckers will have to call him out on it.  And even CNN is willing to hit him hard on it.

I don't think any other issue can possibly save McCain at this point.  But if ACORN is pushed hard enough, McCain could win it in a landslide.

Qwinn

367 CNN poll says Obama won. Of course, 40% of respondents were Democrats as opposed to only 30% Republican. The rest are those "independents."

368 363 Senator GovernMENT is ALL over facebook

its a WINNER!

Fixed It for Ya

But your right that will stick like GECKO FEET

369  This isn't pessimism, guys.  This is a stubborn old fool who refuses to listen to EVERYONE who is telling him what he needs to do to win.

If McCain continues following his own counsel, he loses.  it's that simple.
 

Pessimism would have been me in 1992, knowing bush would lose and there was nothing, NOTHING, he could do about it.

But McCain can do something.  He just refuses to.  because it's "racist" or someshit.

This is fucking anger. 

We could win -- McCain just doesn't want to.

370 @CanaDave

Well this blog has excellent technology identifying commenters IP address (I assume) and presenting it as a hash to prevent malicious sockpuppeting. That's a great feature.

Question for you, Dave. Can you imagine if Harper was American and the Republican nominee?

Do you have any idea how seriously the GOP would be kicking ass right now?

371

314Hey, what can I say?  I've always looked at life with a half-full glass.  What has that gotten me?  A wonderful life, a beautiful daughter, a great job, friends for life, a really nice house.  It's so much better than being a pessimistic asswipe, right fulldroolcup?

Heh.  Hit a nerve, I guess.  You assume I have none of those things, that I'm just a bitter clinger.

You  know what a "line" employee is? As opposed to "staff"?  All my adult life I've been "line".  I know how important toughness, grit, drive and optimism are. Pessimism never helped anyone make his numbers.

A poem for your consideration:

Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth

  SAY not the struggle naught availeth, The labor and the wounds are vain, The enemy faints not, nor faileth, And as things have been they remain.

If hopes were dupes, fears may be liars; It may be, in yon smoke concealed, Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers, And, but for you, possess the field.

For while the tired waves, vainly breaking, Seem here, no painful inch to gain, Far back, through creeks and inlets making, Comes silent, flooding in, the main.

And not by eastern windows only, When daylight comes, comes in the light, In front, the sun climbs slow, how slowly, But westward, look, the land is bright.

Arthur Hugh Clough Inspirational, isn't it.

   But when your leaders undercut you, when through their fecklessness or timidity they weaken the hand they expect you to play, what then?

 

 

 

372 see hot air headlines -- obama won with undecides, 53-22.

All of you saying "But he won, I saw it with my own eyes!"

Yes, you saw him win on the issues discussed.  but not the One Big Issue that determines the election.

373 What Ace said. 

We're dealing with a stubborn old fool of a Senator.

Lets make a deal - never nominate a Senator.

374 optimism isn't helpful when the team is pursuing a wrongheaded, disastrous course.

I repeat:

McCain could win this.  Or could have. I don't know if there's a chance left anymore.

He chose not to. 

Everybody, EVERYBODY told him what to do.   BUT HE KNOWS  BETTER.

Well.

I guess fucking not.

375

I dug into Obama's "sexuality is sacred" phrase.

Conclusion?

He's a Super Freak. Super Freak. He's super freak-ay nyowww.

376 Oh yes, I started reading the comments and forgot about the women/men needles on CNN.  Women, as a group, are idiots.  Seriously.  Women embarass me 24/7.  Of all the none thinking, emoting baloney, the graph made me groan and I wanted to point it out to the kiddies, but I was busy thinking about the main points of the debate so I could square them away after.

But MAN, the women were just lame in being sucked into the mindless platitudes, which I'm sure guys all over are thrilled about, but seriously.  An idiotic group that will give you sex will also give Obama sex.  They just demonstrated that on national television.  Think about it, morons.

377 You so don't get the puma's. They just really, really don't like Obama in a visceral way and have basically forsaken many of their virtues and crossed over to the dark side.

It's not about politics anymore to them, it's war.

I honestly don't understand how anyone who cares about this country and our way of life can see it ANY other way.  John McCain could come out wearing a tutu and sparkle pasties and he'd  STILL be our only option if we don't want a socialist takeover.  Despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, that really is what it comes down to.

Just my 2 cents

378 Ace, I thought McCain fought hard tonight. Not as effectively as you might like or with your strategy, but he tried. I think you owe him that.

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
— Alf, Season 4

379

I thought JMac won as well.  My husband thought he should have hit BHO on the Ayers thing harder, but I don't think that would have come across on TV very well.  There's so much nuance in Barry's former, uh, non-associations.

I had to see it in print to really appreciate Barry's very small world:  http://colony14.net/id41.html

I've never been a JMac fan, but I'll vote for him over Mr. Marxist any day.  At the very least, JM genuinely loves his country and it shows.

As an aside:  I think it's up to us to instill that same love of country in our kids.  They sure as hell don't get it at school.

Public Education Exhibit A:  Talking Heads who prefer a candidate who talks purty to a man who fell in love with his country when he couldn't get back to it.  I honestly think the only way we'll keep our country is to raise a generation that feels the same way.

I hate to disagree with you, Ace, but dude, get a good night's sleep, then get back to it in the morning.  We only lose when we quit.

380 "see hot air headlines -- obama won with undecides, 53-22."

That is the CBS poll...who believes that is a fair poll I want to sell you some nice dry land in Florida.

381 No one gives a fuck about subprime mortgages. There. I said it. No one gives a damn about it because all the people who took them are voting for Obama. McCain, if he used that issue as his base points, would have been killed. Plain out.

McCain did what he needed to do, and now it's time for the ads to kill Obama. And with McCain using Joe The Plumber, someone who actually connects with America, there will be a win.

Stop being a surrender porch monkey, Ace. Or go throw yourself off a cliff.

Posted by: Baka Omaeda at October 15, 2008 11:45 PM (Z9IOH)

If the stock market continues to plummet hundreds of points every day between now and election day, there will be no other issue... none.  Sure, McCain did well for himself, but he didn't do everything he needed to do.  He needs to learn how to sum up the financial crisis in a way that makes it clear who the real villains of the story are... because that issue isn't going away.

382 Despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, that really is what it comes down to.

Just my 2 cents

Yes, but you're not understanding the argument.  I'm voting for McCain.  Ace, I'm sure, is voting for McCain.

The point is McCain doesn't want to win.  He's making that clear.

383 I was watching the ballgame (PHILS! WOOOOT!), reading the AOS live blog, to calm my nerves. All the time, I'm reading about how McCain is kicking ass. Then, atthe end, everyone says Obama won.

Oh well. I'm drunk right now. Go Phils!

384

Ok, so I didn't watch, but I read the CBS results that said overwhelmingly O wins, but once again, who do you trust in a crisis - McCain, who is ready to be president- McCain, Who will raise taxes - Obama.

I wonder who can say that the least ready for crisis, least presidential, most tax raiser won?  Probably not truly indicative of the way they will vote.  To me it is just like the "is the nation headed in the wrong direction" vote.  I would say "yes" but that doesn't mean that I support Democrats.  Although it is often cited as bad news for Bush.

I was in a bar watching soccer (the US lost) and the debate was on with no sound, and the women were laughing at the fact that every time Barry spoke the wonen line went up.  We didn't know what he said, but it couldn't have been that great for women.  Really I don't think those women were undecided.  But then, I am in TX.

385 "see hot air headlines -- obama won with undecides, 53-22."

To the degree that a debate is a popularity contest and people have a gut after-debate reaction, Obama won. Why? McCain attacked and that doesn't make people feel good.

Luntz data and after-debate polls will show Obama won.

However, McCain had to attack and get some of these issues out there himself to get the media to talk about them. And people to think about them. So the long term "few days later" effect should help McCain.

386

what is baffling is some of you are saying "I thought McCain won" but the media and Obama was cool.

Did you not see the talking points Obama leaked? You guys are all in the trap.

WHy are you letting the press dictate how you feel? Man up you bunch of sissies. McCain mopped him up. you know what you saw and felt.

How can an election be over when it has not ended and America has not voted?

Ace, you bought the media burger with a side order of hopelessness.

Gimme a break. As a dem it is always said the conservatives get tough, their base turns out and they work hard to win.

I do not see any of that. ALL OF YOU ARE BRAINWASHED. The media says mccain needs a game changer. No he doesn't.

A gamechanger? There is almost 3 weeks left. The game will change. They feed you this BS and then you feel lost because i do not know why.

I was as happy as gay guy with a bucket full of dicks watching McCain pin Obama down over and over.

Look at the talking points that got leaked by camp obama. All the defeat and retreat i hear is the same narrative in his talking points. He has all of you in his palm.

I am an American and i choose to fight. Any fight can be lost. It sounds to me you wanna give up because you might have to fight hard. Winners do not quit and quitters never win.

 

387 303 "PUMAS fight harder then you...." They lost too... PUMAs had to fight against the media and their party, maybe getting the assistance of some small fraction of Rush listeners. They managed to push Hillary to unlikely victories and fight Obama almost to the convention. They are excited about basically having a party machine (RNC) behind them now. They'll help.

388 Ace, no one really gives a fuck of what you think anymore. You cite Hot Air all the time, it's like you've become Allah-fuckwit's incest-laden sister or something.

Maybe, just maybe, you DON'T know what you're talking about. And maybe, just maybe, Ace, you need to sit yourself down and shut yourself up.

McCain did as well as was prescribed tonight. I've been looking all around and getting reactions from people who were leaning Obama tonight, and they're moving back to being undecided or moving towards McCain.

I repeat, Ace, you know nothing of what you talk about, and are a "seig heil hitler" surrender porch monkey.

389

Maybe Mav is winning or close to it.  Close enough that perhaps it was he who merely had to show up and not make any major blunders--like they're saying about Omega.

The polls are oversampling Donks in greater and greater ratios--to create an appearance of swelling support.  They're trying to break our spirit.  Fuck 'em.

People are finding out about the dirt, Freddie, Fannie, Ayers, Acorn, higher taxes, and Joe the plumber, etc., via commercials and Palin.   But they are finding out. 

Mav will win.  I'll bet on it.

390 I think McCain will win -if- ACORN remains an issue in at least the venues it has been over the last week or two.

Otherwise, I don't know.

Qwinn

391 Watcher: The people that I deal with on a day to day basis are looking at issues OTHER than sub-prime mortgages. They're concerned about unemployment. And they saw the Joe The Plumber crap, and started to move themselves away from Obama pretty quickly.

You, sir, are wrong in that Subprime mortgages are the topic. It's the economy OUTSIDE the mortgage market and jobs that are of concern. And McCain is looking better at them.

392 "McCain could win this.  Or could have. I don't know if there's a chance left anymore.

He chose not to. "

What horseshit! McCain may have done well or not, I thought he did fine, but instead of hitting back at the biased media who would never admit McCain won the debate, Ace chooses to whine pitifully about "lost opportunities". McCain did not choose not to win.....I think he did his best to win...if people cannot see Obama is a fraud its not a reflection on McCain.

393

The point is McCain doesn't want to win.  He's making that clear.

My point is, you don't know what he knows.

394 Here's the thing, though, Ace: are you saying that the debate tonight decided the election?  I'm not sure I'm willing to buy that.  I'm not sure that debates have that much power in the end.

That shouldn't make me a pollyanna, by the way, because I'm still pessimistic (though hopeful).  Which is to say that if McCain loses, I have doubts that  it will be because of the debate.

395

People are finding out about the dirt, Freddie, Fannie, Ayers, Acorn, higher taxes, and Joe the plumber, etc., via commercials and Palin.   But they are finding out. 

Mav will win.  I'll bet on it.

Guess what - I put money down on McCain last week.  I listened to what he said, that he was going to fight.  I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I was let down tonight.

396 The more I think about this debate, the happier I am.

Mainly because if you look you can see the traditional Republican route to victory finally opening up:

And that is:  Obama is a tax-and-spend big government liberal who's out of touch with ordinary folks.  

It's almost always worked.  If you can paint your opponent into the out-of-touch tax-and-spend liberal box (as was done with Kerry, Mondale, Dukakis, and Carter, but not Clinton) you've won the election. 

This is why Obama has  been so desperate to talk up his sham tax cuts, because he's attempting to escape the box.  He's Hopey Changepants,  supposedly riding away from the old Democratic ways on his Unicorn Rainbow.

But, tonight, McCain hit Obama hard on all of these traditional themes (with a giant assist from Joe the Plumber), and he generally succeeded in getting Obama into the stuffed into the mold.  Something he had failed at doing in the past debates.

Yes, maybe McCain didn't pound Obama in exactly the way we wanted, but he succeeded in making the Messiah look more and more like his losing predecessors.  And if he can keep the heat turned up on taxes and spending and Obama's liberal bona fides he'll win.

By the way, "Senator Government" is a brilliant slip that plays to this,  so brilliant that it almost has to be planned.  But even if it isn't it, it's as good as anything they've come up with intentionally and they should get Palin to repeat it over and over again on the stump.

397 @381 jason

That is the CBS poll...who believes that is a fair poll I want to sell you some nice dry land in Florida.


Exactly, wasn't an earlier poll (maybe it was yesterday) from CBS "cooked beyond recognition" as somebody put it?

398 Again, no point in name calling here.  Everyone here is voting for McCain.  And dealing with McCain has always engendered some hysterical frustration on the right (I know I am often one of the hysterically frustrated)   Tomorrow everyone just needs to go back to work.  The rest of it will take care of itself.

399 "Here's the thing, though, Ace: are you saying that the debate tonight decided the election?  I'm not sure I'm willing to buy that.  I'm not sure that debates have that much power in the end."

I agree. I think Ace's a bit too pessimistic on this score, and I for one think Obama's going to win it.

"What horseshit! McCain may have done well or not, I thought he did fine, but instead of hitting back at the biased media who would never admit McCain won the debate, Ace chooses to whine pitifully about "lost opportunities"."

Earlier today I was in agreement with Ace when he "called out" McCain to fight honorably and not to go down to an honorable defeat.

Well whether McCain did what Ace thought he should have done tonight or not, he fought. Honorably. McCain earned some respect tonight.

400

My point is, you don't know what he knows.

Posted by: rdbrewer at October 16, 2008 12:31 AM (CrSOk)

And you do?  I hope your right.  Really, I do.

I'm not banking on it.

401 Exactly, wasn't an earlier poll (maybe it was yesterday) from CBS "cooked beyond recognition" as somebody put it?

That would have been MOI !! LOL!!!

402 I'm done with this place.

Everyone here, like Editor and Ace, Charles and Watcher, can all die. Those type of people are a bunch of Hitler-saluting, Petain-worshipping, monday morning quarterbacking, overstuffed, inbred, arm-extending, surrender porch monkeys with your dicks in reverse. And I see more and more of them here.

If/When the revolution happens, I hope you try to storm my house, so I can take all of you out with my Browning .50.

403 "If you want to vote for an American Idol, vote for Obama. If you want to vote for an American president, you'll vote for McCain."

From http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/9649-Quote.html

404 This isn't pessimism, guys.  This is a stubborn old fool who refuses to listen to EVERYONE who is telling him what he needs to do to win.

If McCain continues following his own counsel, he loses.  it's that simple.
 

Pessimism would have been me in 1992, knowing bush would lose and there was nothing, NOTHING, he could do about it.

But McCain can do something.  He just refuses to.  because it's "racist" or someshit.

This is fucking anger. 

We could win -- McCain just doesn't want to.

Posted by: ace at October 16, 2008 12:17 AM (1WR4H)

I know... it's been frustrating as hell.

I feel like I've been watching the rape scene from Pulp Fiction, except that Bruce Willis comes running back in with a wiffleball bat instead of the samurai sword.

405

Well, Editor, NEWSFLASH!  You're a liar; you're blind, and he fought great.  Even a Concerned person like you should be able to make that call.

Learn how to read polls.  Then open your yapper. 

There was no make-it-or-break-it situation for McCain tonight.  If you can get off that silly assed idea, we may have further discussion.  If not, bye. 

406 'The point is McCain doesn't want to win.  He's making that clear.'

Posted by: Editor "

No, he wants to win. The MSM wants him to lose. Stop whining and wallowing in self pity and attacking the guy who we want to win. Over at Daily Kos I didn't see anyone giving up when Obama was down in the polls but here there is a huge contingent of namby pamby hand wringers eating up MSM talking points and then self flagellating themselves.

This canard that McCain does not want to win is disgraceful.

407 Hey baka, who do you think is going to storm your house?

408 403... Those type of people are a bunch of Hitler-saluting, Petain-worshipping, monday morning quarterbacking, overstuffed, inbred, arm-extending, surrender porch monkeys with your dicks in reverse. And I see more and more of them here. I laughed at "with your dicks in reverse."

409 Everyone here, like Editor and Ace, Charles and Watcher, can all die. Those type of people are a bunch of Hitler-saluting, Petain-worshipping, monday morning quarterbacking, overstuffed, inbred, arm-extending, surrender porch monkeys with your dicks in reverse.

Wow - I want the Republicans to win and I'm a Nazi.  I want them to win so bad I'm pissed that our candidate pussied out, and I've got jackboots on.

Nice - very nice.

410 This is what McCain needs to whale on:

http://tinyurl.com/3gkzhb

Quoteing a quote:  According to the most recent (2006) data released by the IRS, the top 1 percent of filers paid nearly 40 percent of all income taxes; the top 5 percent paid 60 percent of all income taxes. The bottom 50 percent paid virtually no income taxes (3 percent of all income taxes paid).

411 Be interesting to see a genuine man-on-the-street poll asking:

And by interesting you mean eye-bleedingly crazy?

The Corner Via Hot Air

And now the third, this account from a Republican consultant [...]
'Yes, they believed the charges against Obama. Yes, they actually think he's too liberal, consorts with bad people and WON'T BE A GOOD PRESIDENT...but they STILL don't give a f***. They said right out, "He won't do anything better than McCain" but they're STILL voting for Obama.'

Read it all. It made me wonder wrote wrote, "Every country (gets) the government it deserves."

412

Mac got his foot in the door tonight. He thew up as much of the CAC/ACORN?Ayers/ FAN-FRED thing as he reasonably could have in the debate format.

He might have been better served to say something in his closing statement like "Go to Obamalied.com for more information on my opponents associations and their negative impact on our economy, our electoral process, and the education of our children" Of course, this website would have everything laid out so even the dumbest undecided voter could decipher it. Lots of illustrations too. Scary pics of Nancy, Harry, and Barney.

 It is now up to the 527's and the RNC to flood the swing markets with ads telling the Fan/Fred/CRA/CAC/ACORN stories and how they have impacted us. Get Joe the Plumber in ads.The Obamessiah cannot hide from his record or his statements. Mac sketched the outline tonight of "Obama the socialist". I don't think we are quite ready for a socialist president, no matter what the polls say.

413 .  This is a stubborn old fool

UUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMM only fool I see is you, He knows what his internals are saying, All the "EXPERTS" said why is he spending time in Pa. & wisc. & Minne. DUHH becuase his internals are telling him to go ther he has a chance to win, Why is Obama going there a lot DUHHHHHHHH his internals are telling him to also

Just remember Ace when you slit your wrists it's Up the Highway, not across the road

414 parep Thank you!!

415 "Wow - I want the Republicans to win and I'm a Nazi.  I want them to win so bad I'm pissed that our candidate pussied out, and I've got jackboots on."

No, the candidate didn't pussy out, you did.

416 I repeat, Ace, you know nothing of what you talk about, and are a "seig heil hitler" surrender porch monkey.

Posted by: Baka Omaeda at October 16, 2008 12:27 AM (Z9IOH)

WTF, dude?  Nazi references?  Really?  For being upset with McCain for refusing to play the biggest trump card he has?

417 Learn how to read polls.  Then open your yapper.

Do yourself a favor and look around here and HotAir to see how I absolutely do not believe the polls.  Then open your yapper.

I still think he can win.

I don't think he's real interested.  Like Rush says, we'll have to drag him kicking and screaming to the finish line.

418 PaRep, you know that video "I am Sarah Palin"?


You should start "I am not a pantshitter. McCain '08"

419 But he did not address Issue Number One -- the subprime crisis, his attempt to stop it, and Obama's refusal to do anything.

Makes you wonder if he'll address it even if he wins.  I don't think he will.  He's to caught up in not making any of his fellow senators look bad. 

Country first - bullshit.  It's "Bi-partisanship" first, country next, then mavericky-ness, fellow Republicans last.

BTW, did I have to watch the debate to have a reaction?

420

Debates don't help unless one candidate makes an unforced error. Obama's too slick for that, so I think this idea that Mac could have changed the game tonight is silly.

McCain did as well as can be expected.

He has to win all toss-up states and take two or three states leaning Obama right now on the RCP averages to win the electoral college. The overall polls aren't as important as the state polls right now.

It can be done, but it will involve super-human turnout from Mac supporters and a disappointing turnout from democrats. I think between voter registration fraud, disappointed Hillary supporters and ignorant 20-something dumb shits who will probably be too high or hung over to turn out on election day, that is a distinct possiblity.

421 L you are genius

422 You people, and I mean that exactly how it sounds, are deluded.  Obama won that debate, handily, with not a drop of sweat on his brow.  He's got a glass jaw a half a mile long and McCain didn't even tap it.

At all.  As in...none.  As in...he score no points at all.  And I say this as a conservative who was rooting for McCain to bring it.  Heads up.  He didn't bring it and all this carping about Joe the Plummer is missing the point.  If you don't know Joe the Plummer and if you don't understand Joe the Plummer, you can't explain Joe the Plummer.  That candidate would be...McCain.

O man understood enough to throw enough BS in the air to distract from Joe the Plummer.  Deal with it that McCain didn't have the ability to call him on it.  Obama threw up a shit cloud of meaninglessness and McCain couldn't claw his way through to get to the meat of the topic.  Point to Obama.  End of discussion.

423

Wow - I want the Republicans to win and I'm a Nazi.  I want them to win so bad I'm pissed that our candidate pussied out, and I've got jackboots on.

He vents at your stupidity, and you refer to Nazi Germany?  I think you just tipped your already obvious hand. 

424 No, the candidate didn't pussy out, you did.

Posted by: jason at October 16, 2008 12:44 AM (Cy1m7)

I asked before, so maybe you will answer:  What is pussy about wanting my candidate to actually make an effort?

425

Women I have spoken to have no articulate reasons for disliking her...."there's something about her...."

What that is of course is that Sarah Palin activates anxiety in a certain kind of intellectually and emotionally insecure female.

So I guess, yeah, it's cattiness.

Saucer of milk please!

Now THERE's a foursquare example of why feminism is a crock of shit.

Can you imagine anyone but a cucumber-slices-on-his-eyes, facial-gettin' metrosexual say "...."there's something about him...."

I would consign Susan B. Anthony to the deepest circle of hell, were she not already there.

426 Everyone here, like Editor and Ace, Charles and Watcher, can all die. Those type of people are a bunch of Hitler-saluting, Petain-worshipping, monday morning quarterbacking, overstuffed, inbred, arm-extending, surrender porch monkeys with your dicks in reverse. And I see more and more of them here.

If/When the revolution happens, I hope you try to storm my house, so I can take all of you out with my Browning .50.

Posted by: Baka Omaeda at October 16, 2008 12:37 AM (Z9IOH)

And you can suck my dick, in reverse... dumbass.

427 Perhaps we should consider that since we don't like it when the media sets a narrative for what McCain should do and then when he doesnt do exactly that, he lost, we shouldnt do the same thing.

428

He vents at your stupidity, and you refer to Nazi Germany?  I think you just tipped your already obvious hand. 

Posted by: rdbrewer at October 16, 2008 12:47 AM (CrSOk)

Uh, he referenced it.  Not me.  Go read the fucking post before you open your yapper.

429 Everyone just relax a little.  We're all on the same side. For those of you frustrated with McCain in a few days it will look better to you.  But don't kid yourself into thinking he's going to be what you want him to be.  He's going to be what he is.  And like it or not he's not playing to us or to some huge untapped pool of conservatives who are just waiting for fresh meat.  He's playing to the middle.  They don't want to be told they need to suck it up on the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac thing.  Listen to the PUMAS on this one.  They're the audience now.  They will be until Nov. 5th.  That frustrates me too, but that is the way it is going to be.  If McCain made the PUMAS happy tonight chances are he made a lot of swing state undecideds happy too. 

430 My point is, you don't know what he knows.

Precisely.  A lot of this commentary just seems so hysterical and overwrought.  I'm not sure why that's necessary; it seems very counterproductive.  And a bit off-message if the main goal is to keep the Plastic Jesus and his lovely wife out of the White House. 

431 "I don't think he's real interested."

Editor, you keep repeating this asinine irrational statement. John McCain has battled to be President for years, he's busted his ass in countless campaigns, he's 72 years old and a wealthy guy, yet he is out there hustling tirelessly at a backbreaking pace.  Why don't you go out and put in 0.001% of the effort John McCain is putting in to his campaign, instead of lobbing insults at him.

432

I still think he can win.

I don't think he's real interested.

You missed the part where I called you a liar.   

Too many fucking Concern trolls around here.  Get stuffed.

433 "Perhaps the best news for McCain is the rating he received from independent voters. Among respondents not identified with either major political party, McCain was judged tonight’s winner, 51-42 percent.   The poll was conducted over a 15-minute period following the completion of the presidential debate, testing 715 respondents with a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points. The sample of uncommitted, likely voters, was selected from a pool of 160,000 voters across the country, and the results were demographically weighted."  -Politico.com

434 Let's not forget, McCain's loves to fight from behind.  He gets his jollies by beating the crap out of the conventional wisdom.  He loses focus when he's ahead, but then he gets all revved up when he's way down.

The guys been left for dead by the side of the road more times then we can count (at least once for real life keeps), and he always gets up and comes back for more. 

And, more often then not, he wins.


Now, if you members of the Allahpundit Nancy Boy Brigade need to have your spine stiffened, go read Jim Treacher.

435 "We're all on the same side."

No, dude, I'm on Canada's side against your impending Marxist state. I don't know how the heck we're going to keep you from infecting us, but thank God we reelected a strong Conservative Prime Minister to lead us through these dark times.

436 "I asked before, so maybe you will answer:  What is pussy about wanting my candidate to actually make an effort?"

You are a pompous ass who thinks YOU know exactly what effort it takes to win.

Tell me asshole, exactly what have YOU done to help McCain win the election?

437

With all due respect, Lana, I beg to differ with your analysis. I agree that Mac should have hit harder in FanFred, but it's way too detailed an issue for a man with McCain's verbal skills to take on in 60 or even 120 seconds.

Mac did punish Obama with Joe the plumber. He also finally hit back on the 3rd Bush term BS. That was the line of the night. On more than one occasion, Obama got a bit too bogged down in nuance and details. He came across as a bit wonkish at times as well.

Mac certainly didn't knock Obama out, but he did land some punches that will be felt tomorrow.

Just my $0.02

438 You missed the part where I called you a liar. 

Exactly what is it that I'm lying about?  Seriously?

Why don't you go out and put in 0.001% of the effort John McCain is putting in to his campaign, instead of lobbing insults at him.

I've given my money to the old guy. 

439 I wasn't going to vote for McCain a short time ago. Neither were many of our friends and family members. You would be surprised what showing some youtube videos about Obama and his friends can do.

Tell everyone about ACORN and what they are doing here in Ohio. I refuse to listen to some cooked poll from people who want us to lose hope. If Obama was so calm and confident they wouldn't be doing the things they are and committing voter fraud with ACORN.

P.S. I am not a fan of the Clintons, but I respect the hell out of the PUMAs. Keep up the fight!

440

McCain's loves to fight from behind.

Yeah, and obammy doesn't even put up a fight, from behind.

441 Tell me asshole, exactly what have YOU done to help McCain win the election?

Posted by: jason at October 16, 2008 12:56 AM (Cy1m7)

My wife and I have given money to a candidate who at the beginning of the primaries said we would NEVER vote for, during a time when my wife was laid-up with a torn ACL and couldn't work, thus we were in a mode of trying to save as much as possible instead of extravagances.

How 'bout you?

442 "I've given my money to the old guy. "

Wow Editor, that is impressive!!! I guess that earns you the right to trash him.....You forgot to say "the old guy who puts no effort into the campaign and doesn't want to win" though....is there a problem with your cut and paste feature?

443

Uh, he referenced it.  Not me.  Go read the fucking post before you open your yapper.

He vented at you, and you decided he was calling you a Nazi, you douchebag.  That's how you tipped your flopped-over hand.  And!  There's another example of why you're a liar.  Congratulations.

444 Christoph,

Heh!

The rest of you,

Seriously relax.  McCain's audience right now is the PUMAS I suspect he thinks they hold the key to the swing states.  Look, I'm frustrated he isn't paying more attention to us, but from now til November he's going to be playing to the PUMAS.  How they react is going to be key.  And honestly we should be used to the fact that McCain isn't listening to us by now, you know?

445 I've read all the comments and none of you are honest enough to admit the glaringly obvious.

McCain didn't lose.  Just as you all will (and have) argued that the collapse of the Soviet Union is a repudiation of communism, the utter rout of the RNC is a wholesale repudiation of conservatism.

Sorry. 

McCain and Bush are products of conservatism.  Bush could not have been elected had this not been the case nor could have McCain been selected as their 2008 nominee.  Victory has a hundred fathers but defeat is an orphan.

But I understand why you're doing it.  It's far easier to blame one man in order to exculpate yourselves from the disaster.  Please, keep doing it.  Because the longer you deny it, the longer the result will be the same.

Sarah

446

He vented at you, and you decided he was calling you a Nazi, you douchebag.  That's how you tipped your flopped-over hand.  And!  There's another example of why you're a liar.  Congratulations.

Posted by: rdbrewer at October 16, 2008 01:01 AM (CrSOigk)

Um, yeah, the Hitler-saluting part in his rant kind of gave that away.  Fuck off.

447

What exactly did some of you want McCain to do to Obama?  Scream in his face for 90 minutes about Ayers, Rezko, Wright, Pfleger, the “work” of the Annenburg Challenge, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, ACORN, race baiting, CRA, New Party,  Odigna, Khalidi, Frank Marshall, caucus fraud in the race for Democratic nomination, Obama brownshirts trying to stifle political discourse, Obama attorneys trying to intimidate television stations out of showing ads that show Obama in negative light, fraudulent donors, etc.?  (The fact that that list is so long should tell you something about our media’s dereliction of duty as the fourth estate. )     

All McCain REALLY needed to do was sow the seeds of doubt in voter's minds about Obama.  Get people wondering, who is this guy?  Maybe they’ll take a few minutes and Google a few things.  That’s the only way they’ll learn the truth about Obama.  Obama is ahead right now but I’m still betting at least 5% of that support is fluid and up for the taking.  At the same time, I suspect McCain brought back a few disheartened conservatives that were angry over his last debate performance and slipped into the “undecided” column. 

Frankly, I think McCain did his job as an American.  He needed to expose at least some of Obama’s shadier elements to the American people so they'd have an informed choice this November.  For that I’m grateful and put him far above those in the mainstream media and the Democratic Party.  Hell, I even put McCain above much of the Republican Party, because it’s not like he’s getten much support right now in Plan “Expose Obama as the fraud he is.” Bitch all you want about him.  But I think he’s a patriot.  He’s been demonized as a racist warmonger by the left and pissed on as a candyass by a lot of you on the right.  But to me he’s a good man that essentially sacrificed his reputation (the media made him, now they’re going to break him) to do the right thing for our country.

448 He didn't call you a Nazi at all, you preening, dramatic sub-moron.

449

Obama got his ass handed to him. McCain beat him out finally. I don't agree with a stictch of what McCain said, but boy did he rattled some independents. Good for him.

450 426, fulldroolcup,

What I said earlier.  Women, as a group, embarrass the hell outta me.  They actually live these junior high feelings, rather than thoughts, driven by emotionalism and being threatened by the assertive woman that Palin is, they revert back to the catty crap from junior high.  See Kathleen Parker on Colbert.  She actually brought up her hair and shoes!  As a serious point.  Amazing.

You remember the moment in the debate when Obama asked about McCain's loafers of course.  I think with a small bit of coaching, Palin could wipe the floor with Obama.  McCain...not so much.  Palin could get in his head and he'd get all sweetie and then, hell to pay.  Well, if it got reported by the media.  Wishful thinking, that. 

451

The worst part is that McCain has completely painted himself into a corner. All the shit he's trying to throw against the wall should have been thrown weeks and months ago. He not only didn't do so, he actively opposed those who tried. But the narratives have already been set, in part by him, and now they're old issues.

H still isn't really trying - he may be the only person in political history who's intentionally minimizing the importance of his impoponent's ties to an unrepentant terrorist,even while he tries to make an issue of it! Chcago corruption? Never comes up. The financial crisis narrative's already been set. ACORN may or may not be. McCain's being hoisted on his high horse at this point, and there's nothing honorable about fucking me over through such ineptness. Hell, on any number of the issues you can tell McCain's problem is he still agrees with Obama's narrative.

452 "thus we were in a mode of trying to save as much as possible instead of extravagances."

Yes Editor you should keep saving to pay for all the goodies Obama is going to make you pay for. For the higher prices his energy policy will cost you. For more expensive goods his protectionist policies will cost you. For higher insurance costs his support from trial lawyers will cost you. For the higher prices small businesses and service providers will pass on to you due to Obama's anti-business policies and higher taxes. I hope you pay through your ass, you will deserve it.

453

I think McCain won handily, too.  This was easily his best performance and Obama's worst.  Although I'm stil wondering when McCain will learn to look into the camera and talk to the American people.   

McCain didn't hit him hard enough, though, so he didn't dramatically change the race.

But he did help himself, so I think the race will tighten, which means two things: momentum is with McCain and his supporters (us) receive a healthy motivational boost.  These are not small matters.

 

454 http://tiny.cc/QvgLq

Mark Steyn says it all.

455 449 He didn't call you a Nazi at all, you preening, dramatic sub-moron.

Posted by: rdbrewer at October 16, 2008 01:06 AM (CrSOk)

So, I get to call you the liar, now.  Well, if you insist.

I suppose your projection is probably due to the fact you are the roll, considering I haven't seen you in the parts much.

456 Wow. I'm amazed at the defeatism here.

McCain didn't score a knockout, but that was a solid win. He looked energized, kept Obama on the defensive, and moved back toward his base. School vouchers are definitely a winner.

Obama looked like a smarmy, arrogant cocksucker.

I wish he'd hit the Freddie/Fannie stuff, but there's always the 527's.  All in all I think we're in good shape.

I've been predicting a win for a couple of months.  I'm standing by it.  I

457 Posted by: jason at October 16, 2008 01:08 AM (Cy1m7)

So, essentially, you're saying I'm voting for Obama?

Here's the link to my abandoned blog - if after venturing around there you think I'm voiting for Obama you've got a whole lot of soul searching to do.

http://pajamaeditors.blogspot.com

458 rdbrewer has been around for a long time

459 Things are moving too fast here to keep up with everything, but Jesus!

He sucks, sucked, will suck, he's Sucky McSuckface.  We're doomed.  Sucking Suckington failed!

McCain didn't knock anything out of the park, but he held his own.  In fact, I think he controlled the tempo and direction of the debate.

Get a fucking grip and find some perspective.  McCain didn't nuke Obama from orbit, but he smacked him around a bit, and pointed things out that people will want to hear about.

460 "Wow. I'm amazed at the defeatism here."

Yeah the stench of surrender is pretty strong....I suggest Editor ritually disembowel himself like in Shogun to save face....

461 Editor is not a concern troll -- he's legit.

Now both of ya shut up and go make me some funny lolcats.

chop chop!

462 "So, essentially, you're saying I'm voting for Obama?"

No what I am saying is that you deserve Obama for your dumb "McCain doesn't want to win" statement.

463 Guy can still be dragged across the finish line. The polls are unreliable and there's still time, though teh window's closing. Skeletons are still falling out of Obama's closet.

464

McCain didn't lose.  Just as you all will (and have) argued that the collapse of the Soviet Union is a repudiation of communism, the utter rout of the RNC is a wholesale repudiation of conservatism.

Because the Republican Party just keeps acting more and more conservatively -- just like Bush and McCain keep doing! -- and yet they manage to seemingly lose ground with the electorate, right?  Ergo, the public is rejecting conservatism!

Is that your explanation, dumbass?  Do we have another Bob Munck on our hands who sees a President, a presidential candidate, and most of the Republican Party veer to the left and away from conservative principles, sees those entities fade in popularity, and then draws the idiotic conclusion that their loss of popularity is due to a repudiation of conservatism because, uh, um, der, George Bush is definitionally a conservative (despite not embracing most conservative principles)?

Because of the TAUTOLOGY!!!!!111

465 "Here's the link to my abandoned blog"

What was it called?  "Capitulation"?

466 Look, the undecided don't give a shit about wonky policy positions. If they were following this stuff closely, they wouldn't be undecided, now would they?

These voters go with a gut feeling about who appears to be more trustworthy and presidential.

McCain sowed a lot of doubt tonight. The negative ads will finish the job.

Ignore the polls. They're wrong.  Ignore the media. They're trying to demoralize you. We're going to win. Go convince a family member or coworker who's undecided or only softly supporting Obama.

467 McCain did a great job at the debate tonight. But let's not pretend that he's using all the weapons at his disposal. Like Ace said, McCain is leaving a lot of win-able arguments on the table.

I suspect that McCain is a maverick even within his own campaign, rejecting a lot of good ideas brought to him by his staff on the grounds of being partisan. McCain doesn't like to attack his Congressional colleagues.

Bottom line: McCain should be lauded for his principles and ideals but he's naive and essentially useless for the GOP.

468

roll

Editor, look way back in the archives.  Like, first week or so. 

Begging the question as to whether I'm projecting MY LYING upon you is less than intelligent.  Don't you think?  Hence, "sub-moron."  And, look, another handy example of the extant issue spills forth from your keypad.  Unintentionally.

469 So Brewster, what am I lying about?

470 " So Brewster, what am I lying about?"

I dont speak for Brewster but "McCain doesn't want to win" is a whopper.

471 Bart, he might be legit, but his supercillious defeatism is intolerable.  Plus, the lying.  That always grates.

472 brew baby, you keep calling me a liar, but you're not addressing what it is that I'm lying about. 

Seriously, dude, put up or shut the fuck up.

473

 If POTUS candidates were forced to burn their bridges by resigning from their current offices, they might adopt a more aggressive attitude.  

Just as John Kerry did,  McCain knows he has a cushy job still waiting for him if he loses. 

I can easily imagine McCain saying to himself "If I don't get this gig I can still continue to reach across the aisle another two years.  Sweet."

Ditto Obama, who has four more years to vote "present".

 

474 Posted by: ace at October 16, 2008 12:18 AM (1WR4H)

The CBS poll said that.  The Politico poll reads differently:

"Perhaps the best news for McCain is the rating he received from independent voters. Among respondents not identified with either major political party, McCain was judged tonight’s winner, 51-42 percent."

That's indies saying McCain by 9.

475 Lana, I might argue for return to the old standard of limiting the right to vote to real property owners, but these days we would have to include no-income, no- money-down 2/28 adjustable mortgage "homeowners"!

476 I like Jim Treacher. A lot.

477

They have adult reading courses in most mid to large cities.  Check one out.  Might help with the comprehension issues as well. 

Buzzkill.  Looks like Mav did fine with indies, after all.

Do you think you're helping?  At our level, not Ace's.  Ace can reach campaign insiders and make a difference by pointing out weakness.  Can you?  Is your tude going to get people to the polls?

478 Oh, that was for Editor.  Of what, I can only wonder.

479

Ditto Obama, who has four more years to vote "present".

My nightmare: Civil rights hero Obama is there 30 years from now to condemn  (Lewis-like) the latest not-quite-socialist-enough for attempting to bring back the deep, dark days of ubercapitalismos and small government politicos (har har) Bush-McCain.

480 You're back on the Nazi thing, again?  So, you're saying calling me "Hitler-Saluting" isn't calling me a Nazi.  Wow.  Then what is it?

You're quite intellectually dishonest.

481

@Christoph: Yeah, Harper would be interesting in the GOP...much more of a traditional conservative.  How about Sarah Palin for Prime Minister?...she would get us a majority

This is the longest thread I've ever seen here....

482 FWIW, here's my take:

McCain hit several major themes. He repeatedly called Obama out and Obama punted or lied to get out of whatever situation he was in.

McCain called him out on BAIPA/partial birth abortion, redistribution of wealth, taxes, outrageous spending, dishonest campaign ads, health care reform, the racism statements from Obama's team/supporters, school vouchers, Bill Ayers, his pathetic record on "reaching across the aisle", record vs. rhetoric, free trade, meeting with regimes without preconditions, ACORN...etc. He pointed out how Obama's changed his positions when politically expedient. He called out Biden's idiotic tri-sect Iraq plan. He used the Joe the Plumber narrative and it was brilliant while Obama countered with Billionaire Buffett (guess which one America will relate to better?)

His goal was to foster doubt about the Chosen One and I believe he did. It was no accident that he discussed the issue of trust because in the end, that's what this will come down to.  Who do you trust in trying times?

IMHO he did what he had to do to keep the ball in motion and build momentum leading into the GE.

Now he must hammer home the following: ACORN. Chicago political machine. Democrat controlled Congress preventing the necessary reform and fostering this problem. Fannie/Freddie being a Dem issue. Make a pledge to go after the corruption in DC. Highlight the fallacy of the 95% income tax relief. The positive plan for fixing the problem and giving the power back to the citizens of America.

It's Joe the Plumber versus Senator Government.

This is winnable.

483
"Frankly, I think McCain did his job as an American. He needed to expose at least some of Obama’s shadier elements to the American people so they'd have an informed choice this November."
Exactly. Totally fucking exactly right.

484

Well, after 500 posts, it's clear that nobody got what they wanted.

Too bad.

McCain was fine.

Re: Ayers.  If McCain flogs that too enthusiastically he's screwed.  Obama already won a couple of news cycles last week when he painted McCain as unconcerned about the economy and wanting to debate something that happened 40 years ago.

So instead McCain framed it by saying "we need to know the full extent of your relationship," and Obama foolishly took the bait.  If you think Obama did okay in dodging that, consider that there are millions of voters who have little to no idea who William Ayers is but just heard Barack Obama attempt to explain why it's not such a big deal that he had any kind of working relationship with someone who used to be a terrorist.  That's not something anyone can just glide by; it's like trying to seriously answer the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"  It cannot possibly sound good.

Re: ACORN.  Ditto.  It's never been mentioned in the debates thus far, and Obama just put it on the table.  If you think that he won't regret that, you're wrong.  He just legitimized this issue.

Re: Jeremiah Wright.  Forget it.  It's a dead issue.  It's been discussed already.  There's more than enough to mine here in Ayers and ACORN without reopening something that was — whether you like it or not — closed in March.

Re: Fannie and Freddie.  McCain can't hit that hard on it.  He can't.  Angry McCain is Loser McCain, and he hit just hard enough on it, with a smile, and moved on.  It gave Obama no chance to parry and counterattack — the seven houses thing was brutal and we really don't want to revisit that — and believe it or not, it's not totally a winner issue for McCain.

This election is quickly focusing on the future.  We now have two candidates who are pretty well agreed that the last eight years sucked.  Obama has to torch the GWB strawman to make his change candidacy stick, and McCain has to do it to avoid being Third Term.  So McCain getting bogged down in the finger-pointing minutia of subprime mortgage-backed security this and credit-default swap that is not going to win him any new voters.

Especially not now that "Joe The Plumber" has given McCain a powerful new way to frame the issue by arguing that his future economic policy will do better by Joe Wurzelbacher.  ("Wurzelbacher," by the way, is German for Sixpack.)  John McCain referenced Joe The Plumber fifteen times.  He went to that well again and again because Joe The Plumber is precisely the kind of voter John McCain needs to appeal to: the blue-collar Everyman who can take an honest look at the candidates and quickly realize that the conventional wisdom about the Democrat being the party of the working man is bullshit.  If it's not always bullshit, it certainly is now.

It seems rather rude to suggest that McCain lost the debate because he didn't beat Obama with your preferred weapon.  Rather like suggesting that McCain is a bad candidate because he didn't pick your favorite running mate, hmm?

Everyone seems to be believing the conventional wisdom that McCain needed a knockout blow tonight.  Well, that wasn't going to happen.  Obama is far too mobile and slippery to land a haymaker on him.

But Obama did make crucial blunders: first, he nicked himself with Ayers.  Second, he opened the door on ACORN.  Third, he told a plumber in Toledo, Ohio that the most fair solution for the American economy was for him to "share the wealth" that he worked for.

485 Loved all those questions McCain threw out that Obama never answered (and never will!). The debate ended with all those unanswered questions just hanging in the air like cigarette smoke, hopefully sticking in voters' minds and bugging 'em--and ready to be used as ammunition for the next 20 days. "How much is that fine going to be, Sen. Obama?" "Why did you vote to let born-alive infants just die, without any medical care, Sen. Obama?" "What exactly are the details of your long association with Bill Ayers, Sen. Obama?" Checkmate.

Totally unrelated: Did anyone else catch what I thought I heard Mac say in the discussion about Supreme Court justices--it was hard to tell because Obama and/or Schieffer interrupted him--but I think Mac said that anyone who thinks Roe v. Wade was "rightly decided" is by definition "not qualified" to be a Supreme Court justice. Meaning, anyone who thinks that that ridiculous piece of jurisprudence makes any kind of logical or constitutional sense is obviously a lamebrain and therefore shouldn't be on the Court.

By the way, I heard it on the radio rather than TV--and at least in that medium, McCain had Obama for lunch. No, Mac's not as smooth as The One--but it doesn't matter. Obama came across as cagey and evasive, changing the subject whenever McCain hit his target. McCain came across as earnest, reasonable, fair-minded, and HONEST. I agree with Christy: That's a biggie.

486

McCain couldn't talk to people who want to believe on a level they can relate to.

You're gauging the effectiveness of a presidential debate performance by polling your 16 and 14 year-old kids.  Two people that have no responsibilities, no life experience, and nothing immediately at stake in the outcome of this election.

Do you, perhaps, see a flaw with that polling model?

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