1 Point of order:

"Ex-Marine" refers to those who now guard the streets of Heaven (Re: last verse of the Marine Corps Hymn)

When a person has been in the Marine Corps and is no longer on active duty or in the Reserves, they are referred to as being a "Former Marine."*

* Except for John Murtha who is referred to as 1) an embarrassing piece of $#!+ that brings dishonor to The Corps, the United States, and the great state of Pennsylvania, or 2) a waste of sperm and ova.

2 He should not have taken the law into his own hands. He should have let the misguided youth (can't call them thieves, that is somehow prejudiced)  killed someone and allowed them their moment in a court with a liberal judge, who could have gave them a reduced sentence in hope of rehabilitating them. Instead, he forever took from these misguided youth the hope of making it to a higher level of gangsterism, the coveted title of OG.

3 I think Joe Horn should have been indicted for manslaughter for gunning down those two property thieves in Pasadena, Texas seven months ago, but here we clearly have another situation.

If armed men entered a business and attempted to force me into the back, I would assume--and reasonably, I think--that their intention was to eliminate witnesses. My only complaint here is about total moral failure of the grandmother, and the grandfather, who is only marginally better, if better at all.

That their grandson is an foiled armed robber and possibly an attempted murderer did not weigh on this woman's conscience. That he got shot by someone who dared not to be a compliant (and dead) victim is her complaint. That he's a foiled armed robber and possibly an attempted murderer did not bother the grandfather as much as the bad PR the incident has caused.

I know nothing of these people nor their lives, but whatever culture they are a part of  is terribly broken.

4

Had Lovell complied and allowed the two to force him into the bathroom, he would now be dead. Moving hostages "to the back" is generally prep for eliminating witnesses.

5 If you dont want to *be dead* - dont f-ck with a Jarhead! Even an old one!

6 Adding another name to the long list of people that I'll buy a beer or twelve for if I ever meet them.

7

Any time you  point a gun at someone, it is correct for that person to assume you mean them deadly harm and respond accordingly. This can be compliance or it can be the threat of deadly harm in kind.

Rosa, have people in your community become so accustomed to your young men spending time in prison, that you expect them to behave like this and go unscathed? Those dead and wounded men have no one to blame but themselves for making such a bad choice. Although I suppose they can blame you a bit, too.

8 I love the media sticking to the eeeevil gun template and trotting out the granny--because mom and dad are where?--to give the standard "They was good boys" defense. Fuck em, and buy that man a drink.

9 SWEET! Maybe someone should whisper into grandma's ear "You gonna live by the sword, you gonna die by the sword". On the bright side, this young man won't have to worry about being falsely imprisoned by the man just because of his race.

10 If more armed robbers were killed while plying their trade me thinks we'd start to see a lot fewer robbers.

11 Rosa and Ivory Jones - proof positive that you shouldn't *always* respect your elders, because sometimes they're dumbasses.

12

Ah, joy.  I live in beautiful Baton Rouge, where just last year a coke-crazed man jumped a police officer who was attempting to write him a ticket, sat on his chest and began pummeling his head against the sidewalk.  A bystander, who happened to have a concealed carry permit but did not have his weapon on his person at the moment, walked up and ordered the man to stop, which the criminal didn't, then said, I have a gun and I will use it, which also did not impress the criminal, then he pulled out his weapon from his truck and shot the criminal in the abdomen.  The criminal continued to beat the crap out of the cop, who was completely pinned down and could not reach his weapon.  The bystander warned the criminal once more.  The criminal continued.  The bystander shot him in the head, ending the incident.  A grand jury of my beloved fellow citizens refused to indict the bystander.  The police officer spent some time in the hospital but survived and is probably back on patrol by now.

And that, my friends, is why I live in Louisiana.

13 What is this world coming to, you can't even have a simple armed robbery with out some cracker shooting you down.  Next thing you know they'll invade some country just because you gave money to people who flew an airplane into one or two buildings....hey wait!!

Former Marine = Hero no longer in uniform every day.
Ex Marine = loser disowned by Marines EG john murtha

14 At least they know what to do in Israel:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6kAjqBV8C5E&hl=en

Taking the law into your own hands shouldn't automatically be a bad thing.

You'll have to sign in to YouTube to see it now.  Some idiot flagged the clip as inappropriate.

15 If only there were a law against crime.... if only.

16 But I seem to remember you were trying to get people to call you Jake "The Snake" Johnson - which, let's face it, is just over the top.

17

>> If only there were a law against crime.... if only.

Ha Ha Ha!

18

Robber killed by sickle-cell anemia and 71-year old retired Marine with concealed carry license, but mostly 71-year old retired marine with concealed carry license.

Too long? My first attempt.

19

Criminals need to learn that when you pull out a gun anything can happen, including you getting shot dead.

Instant rehabilitation.

20 When asked for his response, Barack Hussein Obama replied, "What kind of message does it send to our children when we allow bitter nuts clining to guns and religion to slaughter them while trying to provide for their half-dozen baby mommas."

21 Very funny, Host. You're rolling now!

22 "He should not have taken the law in his hands," said Rosa Jones, Gadson's grandmother.

I really hate people who complain that their darling little criminal thug relatives were so abused when someone did to them what they were threatening to do to someone else.  Granny needs a kick in the ass.

23

"He should not have taken the law in his hands,"

Uh, GrannyLou?  Gadson took the law into his own hands.

 

Didn't work out so good, huh?

24 That's some seriously good stuff there, Ace.

25

@Tushar:

I replied to your post about Stuff White People like a while ago, but it seems to have disappeared down the intartubes.

Yeah, that was me, but I knew that before I read Liberal Fascism.

No one with a functioning brain who reads the material from first half of the century and conclude that fascism or nazism were aspects of the right.

26

71 year old STUD!  Steppin on necks just like back in the day.  You go, daddy. 

27

...to give the standard "They was good boys" defense.

This perps grandparents didn't get the memo -in addition to the good boy defense the following two statements to the press are a must:

1) their grandson was in the process of turning his life around. 

2) he just got caught up with the wrong crowd      

28 When's the parade?

29 Subway should give John Lovell free sandwiches for life.  He probably saved their clerk from being murdered.

30

He likes the smell of Sweet Onion Chicken Teriyaki in the morning.

Says it smells like... well, you know.

31 When they tried to force John Lovell into the bathroom, he pulled out a gun and shot both men, police said.

Had these asses just took the money and ran they would be alive today. He didn't pull the gun till it seemed dire. This guy showed remarkable restraint as far as I'm concerned. I'd of started blasting the moment they said give me the money.

32

I hate that usage of "taking the law into [pronoun: eg his, her, their] own hands".  That phrase just doesn't make any sense unless used to describe illegally punishing a person for something.  If one legally and justifiably punishes a person within the law, it's not "taking the law into one's own hands".  It's simply meting out a punishment. 

In this case the two goblins weren't even shot for the purpose of punishment.  The Marine was being herded into a bathroom in the back.  I think he justifiably thought he was going to be murdered there.  Self-defense is not in any rational world taking the law into your own hands.  Mommy dearest can argue forevermore that her baby was not going to harm that man.  That plus $0.50 will buy you a soda. 

Personally, if a stranger tries to put me in the back room during a robbery, I'm going to fight.  If a stranger tries to tie me up during a robbery, I'm going to fight.

33 That plus $0.50 will buy you a soda.

Where in the hell do you find $0.50 sodas?

34

Gotta love the Marines!  Once a Marine ... always a Marine!  I'm talkin as a daughter of a Marine (4th Marines).  I can see my dad taking the same action.  He never left the house without a gun.  As he often said, "you never know when you might run upon a snake."  'Nuff said.

 

 

35 This is exactly what concealed carry is for.  There is no way to tell how many innocent lives this Marine has now saved. (on the day of this incident and also down the road)

36 Remember that store owner in Miami a few years ago?  People kept burglarizing the place by breaking in through the roof. So, he electrified a grate in the ceiling and fried the guy next guy who tried it. 

37 "He should not have taken the law in his hands," said Rosa Jones, Gadson's grandmother.

She goes on to say: "I'd rather the po-po have durn it.  Granmamma needs a new car and some nice handbags."

38 Where in the hell do you find $0.50 sodas?

The 99 Cents Store.  You can get a six pack for a dollar.

39 I know nothing of these people nor their lives, but whatever culture they are a part of  is terribly broken.

Absoulutely, and this is the base of the problem. Absolute lack of accountability, responsibility or admission that one of "yours" is a fuck up.

If the races were reversed and the Former Marine was black and the perps were white the black community would be rioting for joy. There will never be a cure or awakening fro these people, ever.

40

Where in the hell do you find $0.50 sodas?

Come work in the software business. They keep us wired all day with free sodas!

41 Worst case of job discrimination I've seen in a while.

42

Years ago I remember attending a lecture by a veteran homicide detective on what to do in these type of situations.  His main point has always stayed in my mind - and something that I have taught my children....

Do whatever you have to - to never let a perp take you from Crime Scene A, to Crime Scene B.  Crime Scene B is where you will die. 

Good work Mr. Lovell, USMC - Semper Fi.

43 Better to be shot where you may be found than to not resist and be moved and shot where no one will discover you. 

44 Dammit, there isn't time to find a national consensus. The Supreme Court has already issued its writs of certiorari for the next term, and even if there happens to be a case like this among them there's still no guarantee that  Andy Kennedy will get to write the opinion. The evolving moral standards of our changing society demand some sort of fast-track procedure for consulting Kennedy's conscience directly, in time to prevent the next senseless tragedy.

45 Gadson's grandparents told Local 10 on Thursday that Lovell was wrong for pulling the trigger.

"He should not have taken the law in his hands," said Rosa Jones, Gadson's grandmother.

Her husband, Ivory Jones, also condemned the media for its portrayal of Lovell's actions.

"I don't condone what they did, (but) I definitely don't condone the news people making him out to seem like they're making a hero out of this man because he shot somebody down," he said.

I for one totally condone what they did, well maybe not everything they did but I definately condone the part where the one guy got himself shot and killed (I think I may have actually laughed out loud).  I can't condone the other guy though, it ruined what had the makings to be a magically feel good story when I found out the other douchebag had the poor taste to not die.

Also a special message to the two subretarded grandparents:  Defending yourself when someone pulls a gun on you and tries to take you in the bathroom for some unknown reason is not taking the law into your own hands.  The law allows for self defense. 

46

This was linked at the bottom of the story about the Marine who instantly rehabilitated the "alleged" robber, who I'm sure was just wanting a foot long meatball sub on italian herbs and cheese.

47 A US Marine -

Your Best Friend
or
Your Worst Enemy,


Choose wisely.

48 Turns out this story is a year old.

49 I wonder if anybody has bothered to call the Whaaaaaaaaambulance for the dead robbers relatives.

50

If armed men entered a business and attempted to force me into the back, I would assume--and reasonably, I think--that their intention was to eliminate witnesses.

And you'd be right. I remember seeing JJ Bittenbinder's show, Street Smarts: How to Avoid Being a Victim, over 10 years ago. One of the key points he made was to never let a criminal move you to a different location. Once they do this, your odds of being killed go up immensely.

51 What are you guys, raaaaccists?  Those young men were forced to hold up that Subway just to feed their families.  Because everybody who reads the papers or watches TV knows that there just aren't any jobs in this country paying more than, oh, six bucks an hour or so.  So it really wasn't their fault.  If you're looking for a root cause, blame G.W. Bush, who roooind our economy by invading Iraq.

52

An open comment to Gramma Rosa Jones:

Fuck you. You stupid fucking idiot bitch. You raised one of the parents of this dickhead, and if there's justice in the world, your ass will rot in hell for raising the useless stinking parasite who unleashed this little creep upon the world.

And did I mention: fuck you.

Oh, and just in case you're listening: ditto's on you too Grampa Ivory. You're as big a fucking head-case as your stupid bitch wife; you're both fucking stains upon Darwin's law.

The End.

53

Such instances really mess with the recidivism stats.

Sociologists will not be able to gather sufficient data on how many other violent crimes this pair would have committed over their lifetimes.

This makes statisticians cry. Just think of the stat keepers! Won't you think of the stat keepers?

<compassionate head tilt, sad smile>

54 Any time you  point a gun at someone, it is correct for that person to assume you mean them deadly harm and respond accordingly

That was the first thing I was taught about gun safety.  Never point your gun at something you do not plan to shoot.  The corollary, of course, is that if someone is pointing a gun at me, I presume they intend to pull the trigger.  I will react accordingly.

55 Death penalty: I can absolutely, positively guarantee you that it cuts down on repeat offenders. 

56 More of this please. I always wonder why criminals are so sure that they are the only ones willing to be violent. They are usually correct of course but one never knows. Hopefully, this case puts a little doubt in the mind of the next clown who want to pull a stick-up.

57 This story just warms the cockles of my heart!

The only thing better would've been TWO dead turds.

58

Captkid, et al...

LOTS more gun self-defense happiness at Civilian Gun Self-Defense blog..

Don't consume all at once.

59 There's not much more to add to this than a hearty uuuuurrrrrah!

Oh, and as marginally legal as the shooting was in Pasadena, there is something to be said for the message to the perps... these days, grand juries seem less and less inclined to indict over people stopping crime... dead in its tracks. I'm not condoning a questionable shooting, mind you, but I sure do appreciate the message.

tmi3rd

60

Unfuckingbelievable.

Fuck grandma; fuck her right in the ear with a rusty strand of barbed wire.

Mr. Lovell- facing two armed thugs- nailed em both before they knew what hit them.  Pity one of them lived, despite being shot in the chest.  I hope the one that died had a split second of fear knowing he was about to have his miserable existance wiped from the face of the Earth.

And since no one said it- BOOM, HEADSHOT

61 Subway should give John Lovell free sandwiches for life.

They should. But I bet that not only will they refuse to do such a thing, but they'll either sue him for his concealed carry, or ban him from their stores. Just you wait.

But if I where that employee, I'd say Mr. Lovell any time you want something, come on in when I'm working and I fix you up.

62 i wish there had of been 4 robbers. bigger body count.

63 Coulda been more awesome if the second one would have died as well, but we can still hope.  At least one of them had the decency to kick the bucket. 

64

Ace,

Couldn't we have gotten a pic of psycho-right-wing-extrordinaire Gunny Hartman to go with this story?

One-Two-Three-Four

I Love The Marine Corps

65

Couldn't we have gotten a pic of psycho-right-wing-extrordinaire Gunny Hartman to go with this story?

I aim to please.

66 This thread is worthless without knowledge of what pistol and caliber he used.

Me, I'd prefer to shoot Perp #2 in the chest with something big enough that he's not going to have to worry about his court appearances.

67 I don't care for this racist, demogogic phrase "illegal criminal".  I prefer the accurate and politically correct "unconvicted Americans".

68 When you do an armed robbery, essentially you're waiving your right to a trial and accepting summary judgment and immediate execution of the sentence.

69 Hmmmm.

A Marine racked up another kill?

Ding!

70 Semper Fi, John Lovell.

You do the Corps proud.

Fuck you, John Fucking Murtha, you are a disgrace.*


*I can't help it, I can't see or hear that no-load's name without swearing.
Don't judge me!!

71 "Yeah, good luck with that, buddy. I tried that myself a few years ago. It's a hard sell."

Is "Ace" working any better?

72 We need more Joe Horns and that guy from NYC who shot those punks in the other subway.

73

I think Joe Horn should have been indicted for manslaughter for gunning down those two property thieves in Pasadena, Texas seven months ago

 

You, Bob Owens, are an idiot!

74

Dudes - this story is like a whole year old - it's dated June 2007, fer Pete's sake!

 

But I do have to admit it made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

75

Yes, I remember this case when it happened last yr as per the above link but since you brought it up I did a search to see if there was anything more recent & here is a more recent article I found. This article from yesterday is written by a former Marine & is one that discusses the whining by the relatives of the armed robber scum. The article also discuss the follow-up legal troubles (w/o giving a final result) of the scum perp Gadson.  It's a good article UNTIL the very last sentence where it gives an excuse to armed robbers which I was sad to see come from a former Marine. http://www.salem-news.com/articles/july022008/marine_shooting_7-2-08.php

From that article:  'If you want to kick a tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth.' - comment about this story on Topix.com

Guess the perps never heard of that saying or didn't care.
---
To the families of the perps: Yes, Lovell is a hero & was well w/in his rights legally & morally to protect himself & the shop's employee & you're scum just like the robbery perps incl your G-Son b/c you failed to condemn their actions. IMHO, those that fail to condemn scum (even if related) & their scummy actions are scum themselves. You said you didn't condone their actions but you didn't condemn their actions either...you should've either condemned them or STFU altogether. I will stick by & defend my relatives for most things but by God if one of them were committing armed robbery @ Subway I'd either publicly condemn their actions are STFU on the whole situation.
---
SGT Dan, The articles I've seen that mentions Lovell's weapon say it was a .45.
---
Lovell was right (except 1 perp lived), period. And a hero. Lovell is also a former Marine One pilot for JFK & LBJ according to several links.

Those perps entered that Subway wearing gloves, bandanna masks, sunglasses AND GUNS...robbed the cashier...robbed & tried worse upon a 71 yr-old...so one got what he deserved & the other almost got what he deserved but instead lived to tell about it. BTW, Arrindell (the dead one) was previously convicted of a gun charge.
---
The Grand Jury in the Horn case was right, period. Horn may not necessarily be a hero b/c only HIS life & property were in jeopardy AT the time OF the shooting but he was right in his actions nonetheless. And I don't want to hear that Horn put his life in danger BECAUSE he was on HIS PROPERTY and had EVERY RIGHT to step outside his door and onto his ground (property) to see if the perps were trying to break into his house too b/c on many occasions robbers break into more than one house per night per neighborhood.

--- FormerHostage, My G-Father is an ex-Marine, for he died in 1976. Semper Fi (Semper Fidelis)

76

Sorry FormerHostage (#1) but he should not be called an "ex-Marine" or a "former-Marine".  The closest you could get is "former-enlisted", "former-commissioned officer" or "formerly active Marine".  Once a Marine, always a Marine - except Murtha.

Semper Fi!

 

77 Formerhostage and company beat me to the punch, but I'll note that there are, in fact, two known ex-Marines.

One is Murtha. The other is Lee Harvey Oswald.

Great company you keep, John!

Bob, gotta disagree with respect to the Horn shooting. It's really applying the same principle to the above story. If you don't want to get shot, don't commit a crime...

78

I think Joe Horn should have been indicted for manslaughter for gunning down those two property thieves

Except for the expense and tribulation, it might have been better for Horn to go to trial.  With a solid not-guilty verdict, there's no chance of double jeopardy.

79 Ditto with the post above. I think Horn went a little over board, but if you keep your paws off other people's stuff, chances of getting shot are pretty small. Otherwise, man that grandmother is one ugly woman. If he's a Gadson and she's a Jones, sounds like his mother was likely an only child.

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