1
Obama is a real man of the people. Unfortunately, not all the people.

2 Makes me feel even better that last year I "bought American" by getting a Nissan truck made in Tennessee.

3

"@ 42 and 44

wait until the bond and equity markets throw up on Barry's plans

then you'll see who the BMOC is"  http://tinyurl.com/cfee6a

4 He's so sassy!

5 http://tinyurl.com/d5s29e
50 Million Retirees to Get $250 Checks in May. Vote Dem in 2010. God help us all

6 OMG, there is a dumb woman on Power lunch blaming this on Bush?  What?

7 I just heard that the Federal Government will appoint 6 of the 12 new members to Chrysler's board of directors.  What could go wrong with that?

8 Nardelli [the CEO] says the new company will be run by a nine-person board, with six picked by the government and three by Fiat. The board will pick a new CEO.

This is the point of all this.

Obama also selected a new CEO for BofA yesterday.

Community activists will be running our major corporations.

9 All dictators do it "for the people".

10

Is it surprising a communist disdains capitolists?

11
Sorta related: The NYT has given the Boston Globe until Friday to make its union members agree to $20M in concessions or it will shutdown the paper.

I guarantee it will not happen. There is no way Kennedy, Kerry, and Obama will allow a) the union to make concessions, and b) the NYT to shutdown the Globe.

There will be a bailout.

12
Oh, so if you think it's bad that the government owns 2 auto makers, how are you going to feel when the government owns the 'free' press?

13 There are extra job opportunities over at the U.S. mint, oiling the bearings on the smoking printers.

14 And they called Bush arrogant...

15 The Soviet government and Pravda used to always speak badly about what they called "speculators", or investors of any type.  They were a very commonly used scapegoat.

16 IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE, you will buy the new Chrysler Messiah.

17

I'm glad to see the people that Barry is trying to stiff standing up and explaining their objections.  I do not think that Barry is used to people disagreeing with him, or at least continuing to disagree with him after he has Enlightened them with His All-Encompassing Knowledge (which you know is about to happen, because he prefaces it with "Now, let's be clear...").

The bonus-recipients at AIG stood up and tried to explain themselves.  Nobody really listened, but I think that the tone was definitely set that not everyone will be receiving a unicorn these next few years.  As this list of non-recipients continues to grow, hopefully, so will the attention given to really what Barry is doing here.

18 Buy Japanese.

19 '18 Buy Japanese.

Posted by: Farmer_Joe at April 30, 2009 12:15 PM (z4es9)"

He said "buy American" and if you won't "they" will make it so you have to.

20

I guess all that support, donations and votes the hedge funders gave to Obama isn't working out that well for them.

21 I Won

22 Just don't buy. Keep the old bucket of bolts running long enough to let the commies flush themselves down the toilet of history.

23 Wesley Mouch to Chrysler, Tinky Holloway to GM, Kip Chalmers to Bank of America....

24

Man I wish Ford had a better selection of cars.  I've already done the Mustang thing and Fusions, Tauruses and F-150's just don't do it for me.  And forget about Excursions and Expeditions.

The Escapes aren't bad though.  How hard can it be to design a cool car?  That's what people really want.  Why can't American designers make cooler cars?

 

25 Does anyone have directions to Galt's Gulch?

26 "20

I guess all that support, donations and votes the hedge funders gave to Obama isn't working out that well for them.

Posted by: robtr at April 30, 2009 12:17 PM (H60q6)"

Here is an answer to that thought from another site:  "

Posted by guest Apr 30, 2009 12:33PM

It's all about simple math:

Chrysler hedge fund investors: ~200 voters

UAW voters: ~500,000 voters

If you thought this was ever about anything other than politics, you're a fucking idiot.

Barry O can go to hell (and probably will)."

http://tinyurl.com/cfee6a

27 Class action suits are brought by lawyers to address grievences with large groups off plaintiffs. The lawyers get a huge payout while the pore people who were wronged get a paltry sum. When Obamatons take over a company it is like a class action suit, with the statist gaining power and the people get nada.

28 btw, the wall street people seem a little upset on their blogs.

29 Look for the union label.

30

"Wouldn't you really rather drive a Buick?"

C'mon now, how ya gonna beat that for exciting?

31

The Escapes aren't bad though.  How hard can it be to design a cool car?  That's what people really want.  Why can't American designers make cooler cars?

Dodge makes some cool cars.  Challenger, Magnum, Charger.  Unfortunately Chrysler products are POS's.  And now they're becoming irrelevent POS's.

 

32 El Duce's douchebaggery quote:

SLAM: "Some did not. In particular, a group of investment firms and hedge funds decided to hold out for the prospect of an unjustified, taxpayer-funded bailouts...They were hoping everybody else would have to make sacrifices and they would have to make none. I do not stand with that...I stand with the millions of Americans who want to own and buy Chrysler cars." (12:16 p.m.)

"No one should be confused about what a bankruptcy process means," Obama says, adding that it will be "quick" and "efficient."

33

There has never been a situation so bad that the government couldn't fuck it up even worse.

34 There must be a reason why the filing was in NY.  The dark haired woman on power lunch who is in full PMS mode (I can't say the other word) seems to be naive enough to think that the courts will break the way they are supposed to break.

35 The so-called 'sacrifices' of the UAW do not include reopening their contracts.
You know what? That's it. I'm done. Can't even begin to deal with the sheer jaw dropping arrogance on display.
There is one lesson coming through loud and clear - being responsible does not pay. Actually, it sure as hell seems to cost a rather lot.

36

It's not a matter of wanting GM and Chrysler to fail, they already have.

 

Love that statement.

37 I hate that I own a GM vehicle. My husband and I said we'd never purchase from another American car company again having had bad experiences with Chrysler and two GMs. We decided, like a poster above, we would buy the American made Japanese cars. Apparently a lot of people felt as my husband and I did and the "free" market kicked GM and the rest in the nuts. The people spoke with their money and now these D.C. punks want to tell us we were wrong, and that we should "invest" in more crap, while simultaneously telling us we should save our money. Capitalism has barely been hanging on, but it's so dead now. Oh, but Obama is so cool.

38 Wait, Obama called the bailouts "unjustified, taxpayer-funded bailouts", or was that quote from someone else?

39 And in the "Don't piss on my hat and tell me it's raining" department: a Chrysler chapter 11 bankruptcy done in 30-60 days.

40 Drew,
I agree 100%.

I strongly believe that GM and Chrysler must be boycotted. They are stealing from taxpayers just to stay in business, and are now a branch of the federal government.

Ford has played by the rules, they must be rewarded with loyalty.

GM and Chrysler must fail. We have power as consumers to show the feds that we do not agree with the way they are handing this and we need to show it through our power as consumers.

If I were Kentucky or Texas or another large industrial, right to work, state I would be all over getting Ford to relocate.

41

I think Rush is sending a signal to Gov. Palin. He's saying Obama has weak support for his policies and this is THE time for an "attractive, conservative candidate" to come out and give full-throated opposition to Obama's policies.  No reporter will point out he failed with Chrysler and the GDP has contracted over 6%.

Rush also reported that there were hundreds of unreported protestors outside Obama's townhall yesterday.

The Dems are trying to demoralize us and Obama's policies have failed.  He gets high marks for personality and really low ones for policy.  This is prime time for a conservative pol to speak up.

42 There hasn't been a cool car made for under $50,000 in 30 years. They are boxes of metal with slightly different shape. Why people pay a premium for a new car is beyond me. I have never owned a new car and probably never will unless I win the lottery or something.

43

I am keeping a list of all of these companies that wind up pwn'd by the government.  I will not buy a single thing from any of them.  I understand that, regardless of my wishes, for the time being my taxdollars will be used to prop them up, but I refuse to support them further with the funds that I can control.

44 Who buys American cars?  It's not the limousine liberals.  It's working people, It's the "teaparty" people.  People who could make a real dent if they decided not to support any company that touches "bailout" money.  Put me on that list.  I'll get a Ford (or something Japanese or Korean).

45

What is the over/under on how many days it takes the IRS/SEC etc to appear at the front door of one of these hedge funds?

Congrats to them for standing up for their rights.

46 If I were Kentucky or Texas or another large industrial, right to work, state I would be all over getting Ford to relocate.

Posted by: Uniball at April 30, 2009 12:28 PM (27iEn)

Uni, i think they already have a plant or plants in Kentucky, but I do not think a single plant is located in Texas. I don't know why, since we buy a crap load of F-150 pickups built "Texas Tough."

47

So if the government/UAW is going to run Chrysler and GM, how will the white-collar types be compensated? The engineers, finance guys, marketing types. How much are they going to be paid relative to the competition? If these guys start to leave, who's going to design the cars? Who's going to figure out how to sell them? And if they start paying these people the same way that the government pays it people, then it's clear what's going to happen:

1. Qualified, competent people will leave for better pay at other companies.

2. Those who remain will be, on balance, less qualified, less competent, or both. Shittier cars will be built and not sold.

3. In order to sell cars, the government will (a) subsidize the shittier cars, and (b) enact legislation or regulations to punish non-government car companies which will force them to raise their prices.

4. We the taxpayers will end up subsidizing this mess in perpetuity.

5. Unions will contribute even more and more of their now taxpayer subsidized salaries to Democrats.

And this doesn't even get into card check.

48

Sooo, how can our liberal friends not consider what is happening fascism?

I know that it doesn't really matter to them.

This portends some seriously bad shit for this country.

49
There are comments above about Obama forcing people to buy his cars. I don't believe that it's too far from the awful truth.

Their is proposed legislation about offering a "credit" or payment to those people who own so-called gas-guzzlers (e.g., SUVs) and making it illegal to those owners to sell their gas guzzlers to another party.

In other words, if you own an SUV, you can't sell it. But you will be able to "sell" it to the government and use the money towards a more fuel efficient automobile. The government will take your gas guzzler and destroy it for you. Seriously.

So who's to say Obama won't sweeten the offer by adding some $$ if you buy a car from one his UAW buddies, GM or Chrysler?

50

Just don't buy. Keep the old bucket of bolts running long enough to let the commies flush themselves down the toilet of history.

I'm driving a '92 Volvo 940 GLE.  Runs good.  Looks great.  Keeps the kiddies safe in the backseat.  Nice and roomy.  Just getting close to 200K miles and looking forward to many more till Bam goes away.

 

51 "As of last night's deadline, we were part of a group of approximately 20 relatively small organizations; we represent many of the country's teachers unions, major pension and retirement plans and school endowments who have invested through us in senior secured loans to Chrysler. Combined, these loans total about $1 billion. None of us have taken a dime in TARP money." "-- although we have been systematically precluded from engaging in direct discussions or negotiations with the government; instead, we have been forced to communicate through an obviously conflicted intermediary: a group of banks that have received billions of TARP funds"  from "The Unpopular Kids" posted by Equity Private  http://tinyurl.com/d6xk3t

52 Announcing two exciting new models from Government Motors/FiatChryslerRattner Inc.: The "Benito" and the "Peron," both winning scores of admirers in the Sierra Club, ANSWER, the Office of Management and Budget and other automotive enthusiast groups. Available now at the DMV, Post Office and your local Social Security Administration. You will only be required to purchase one of each!

53 Fiat will obtain a 20 percent stake in Chrysler in return for giving the company access to its fuel-efficient technology, a move toward cleaner cars that the Obama administration thinks is critical to Chrysler's future survival. The company has committed to building Fiat cars in Chrysler factories, to be sold as Chryslers.

I really don't get the attraction for Fiat here. Wouldn't it be cheaper to build factories from scratch and avoid the crap leftover from UAW?

54 I feel sorry for Ford, who naively played by the rules. Think they will sell another vehicle to a gov't fleet? Think you will get a carbon-cap exemption for buying a Ford? Think you'll get an "American Manufacturing Recovery and Worker's Solidarity" tax credit for buying a Ford?

55 Hmmm, since the Government is now their direct competitor can Ford deny access to their financials by the IRS and SEC?

56 Yeah, good on the hedge funds, et. al., but I hope they have some first class legal teams. 

57 So when does the new bill making it illegal for anyone to buy non-govm't made cars come out?  Jan 2010?  Or maybe this June?
They'll probably want to get that one in under the rug soon.  Heck, they couldn't wait more than a couple weeks to do a massive money and power grab.

58 Posted by: Rocks at April 30, 2009 12:39 PM (Q1lie)

Distribution. They'll cherry pick the good dealerships.

59 (Makes mental note to get the VW serviced.)

60 I started reading Atlas Shrugged a few months ago and thought that some of the scenarios Ayn Rand throws in there with the Wesley Mouches, et. al.  were a bit over the top.  Now?  It's amazing how prescient Rand was.  We are living Atlas Shrugged.  Period.  Who is John Galt?

61 You know this case will go to a loyal liberal Democrat bankruptcy judge.

62 I can't imagine how old man Henry Ford would be taking this. 

63 so who exactly will invest in bonds anymore?  Obumbles just ripped up the book of business laws.  Does he realize that these banks and hedge funds are in business to make money?  These funds invested in bonds with the understanding that they get paid if the company goes under.  This is insanity!

64 53

Fiat gets hoooks into the American market, and OBama's govt car purchases.

this is hilarious:

"Lie to Me" Tops Obama News Conference

Just In: FOX, the only one of the Big Four networks that did not carry Pres. Obama's news conference last night, finished first in the 8pmET hour with a new episode of "Lie to Me." The drama averaged 7.9 million Total Viewers, according to Nielsen overnights.

NBC's coverage of the Obama newser came in second with 6.7 million Total Viewers.

Overall, Obama's news conference was seen by nearly 19 million viewers across NBC, ABC, CBS according to the early numbers. (Reminder: fast nationals measure only timeslot and not actual program data). Final ratings will be released later today.

65 The federal government...

Doing forto the American Auto Industry what it's done forto the Mortgage Industry - only faster.

66 I just looked on fiat's website, them's some ugly cars

67 Obama is pissed because they had the guts to question his planning.  He also conveniently forgets that those hedge managers have a fiduciary duty to protect their clients, unless they want to be dragged into court and sued individually by  shareholders.  Guess taking a hit for The One is another definition of 'sacrifice'.

68 This looks like a good time to be head a large auto manufacturer or lending institution, look at who your competition is going to be...

69 >> I feel sorry for Ford, who naively played by the rules.

Eh, I don't feel that sorry for them.  Yeah, they stayed out of politics, so that's nice.  But if Ford (and the other big 2) didn't make such shitty products for the last 30 years, then this wouldn't be an issue. 

70 Can someone tell me exactly when we became Argentina? Perhaps Barry's first personally initiated military escapade will be to invade the Falklands. We already know he doesn't like the Brits.

71

Bring back Iacocca - at least he knew how to make cars ! Chrysler debt has been selling at huge discounts (45% face value or less) for the past several months. yes Tresaury has infleunce in BK. all debt investors and equity investors have been "cleaned out". Obama should not be villifying anybody...after all if Chrysler had not been able to find debt investors, Diamler would have been stuck with it...and taxpayer involvement would be less likely. Going forwrad any troubeled company will be dead in the water, it's workers will be SOL. ..Democrats accepted millions in political contributions from the managers of these same hedge funds....nice return on your investment ? No ? Think it will be harder to get money from other wealthy liberal types in Hollywood, media and the Northeast. Too bad ! Gven that employee ownership worked so well for airlines...imagineg what it will do for the auto companies. Chrysler and GM are too far gone, they only know how to make trucks, SUV's and luxury sedans..and have lost the art of making affordable and fun to drive sedans and a full line of vehicles They even surrendered the minivan market to Toyota and Honda. With the end of home equity driven pricing- people won't pay $ 30-40M for cars anymore. Too bad Cisco, Apple or HP don't make cars.

72 http://tinyurl.com/av9n3o new theme song?

73 Any lawyers or bankruptcy types who can answer this for me: Why does this sound like a done deal if they are just filing today? Won't these "rogue creditors" have their say before a bankruptcy court? Will the secured nature of their debt help them get more than Bamster wants to give them? Just seems like Obama is declaring this over before it even starts. And how the hell does the UAW get so much control? What are they giving up for it (I'm afraid I know the answer to this one).

74 Think they will sell another vehicle to a gov't fleet? Think you will get a carbon-cap exemption for buying a Ford? Think you'll get an "American Manufacturing Recovery and Worker's Solidarity" tax credit for buying a Ford?

Don't matter to me.  I will not another vehicle from either GM or Chrysler.  I will only buy Ford products.

"The One" is trying his damnedest to turn us into the USSR, but many won't go down without a fight.

75 73

it aint no foregone conclusion...im a lawyer, done some C11 work.

There is no way those secured creditors will be crammed down without the UAW getting slammed too.

Gibbsy just said that a member of the US delegation to MEX got Swine Flue!

76 Are you thinking Argentina, because of the coming hyper-inflation? I was thinking Cuba, because of the US blockade against, well, the US. We'll be frozen in automobile time, driving our 2009 cars for the next fifty years.

77
This would be a good time for Big Auto to unveil that magic carburetor that gets 50mpg but kept it under wraps because they're in cahoots with Big Oil.

78 75 Thank you. Good to know.

79
FIAT, huh?

Why not Citroen...or Yugo?

80

I haven't heard but I assume the UAW is going to remain intact because that was the whole point of Obama getting involved. 

On the bad side, I've only bought two cars and they were both Dodges.  I'll never buy another one. 

On the plus side, this will remain a problem for Obama for the rest of his term.  The government will either continue subsidize Chrysler or they will be liquidated within the next four years. 

81 I'm thinking of Argentina on account of not only inflation down the line, but the creeping yet naked Peronism, brought to you courtesy of Lord Barry Unicorn O'Guiltwhite and his courtiers, the MSM.

82 FIAT, huh?

Why not Citroen...or Yugo?

I know. It's like any minute Barry's gonna go, "Just kidding. I really had you guys going! Fiat? I can't believe you bought that!"

83 The approved Obamaite mode of transport will soon be a rickshaw pulled by an illegal alien.

84 Will those ugly little Fiats now become car of choice of Obamanauts?  They could be some competition for the Prius - which seem to come bundled with an Obama sticker.

85

look for Obumbles and Congress to change laws that unions get control and paid in full before anyone else in bankruptcies.  Laws mean nothing anymore!  Investments are no longer secured!

 

The best investment is weapons and ammunition.  The revolution is coming!

86 Wow, never realized how much power Jennifer Granholm actually has.

87 gibbs on biden:

"im telling you want he meant to say"

"if anyone was unduly alarmed for whatever reason we would apologize for that"

"my remarks have cleared this up"

88 75 73

it aint no foregone conclusion...im a lawyer, done some C11 work.

There is no way those secured creditors will be crammed down without the UAW getting slammed too.

That's about what I expect... the creditors may not get too much more than the 30% they've been offered, but there's almost no way that the UAW would get the 55% stake that's been thrown around in the news lately.

(I'd think that someone pouring new capital into the company, like Fiat, would get *much* more of the company's new stock than someone holding unsecured debts like the UAW.  Those numbers of a 20% stake for Fiat and 55% for the UAW burned my ass even before I heard about the bondholders only getting 30 cents on the dollar.))

89 Ford or foreign baby, that's all anybody should buy.

90 now Gibbsy says demand for VCR's is down.

what a fucking idiot.

91 Gosh, I'm sure glad our Dear Leader has put an end to all of that evil corporate welfare the wingnuts forced the rest of us to finance. Oh, wait...

92 88

Yes, and the standard deal is the DIP financier (debtor in possession) gets a majority stake, the secured lenders get a piece and the SH get 1%


Gibbsy:

the evil lenders, they "play chicken with the government for a better deal, and nobody blinked"

what a fucking idiot.

93

Qualified, competent people will leave for better pay at other companies

 

Remember when the Forestry Service (feds) actually advertised for “un-qualified” workers.

94

Shockingly Obama singled out hedge funds and investors who were holding out for a better deal. He specifically said he did not "stand with" them.

I'd have a twinge of sympathy for them, if they had not supported the left themselves. Screw 'em.

95
You know what would make a good post?

The vid of Obama mocking the Tea Party protesters in front of his supporters at a staged townhall in Missouri.

96 Next target for takeover by the white house, Airlines and subways.  Slow Joe, the VP, says not to fly or ride in Subways. First move is bankrupt them and then loan them money, then refuse to 'allow' them to return the taxpayer money.

97

So Obama will rely on Fiat (fix it again Tony !) and the UAW to help run Chrysler...can the Italian government help too !

98 Ford makes nice trucks.

99 http://tinyurl.com/d9zcwj  We'll be seeing this a lot.

100 Reporter:  What about black lettter BKR law that says those creditors have rights to force liquidation"

Gibbsy:
"we feel confident that a vast majority of stakeholders are on board with a deal that is in the interest of all those involved. we think a judge can be convinced of this"

Reporter:

Is the president tryin to influence the bkr judge?

Gibbsy
"I assume judges make decision based on their reading of the law"
"we will present a case.....render an opinion on why it is workable...."

101 I just looked on fiat's website, them's some ugly cars

Posted by: robtr at April 30, 2009 12:46 PM (H60q6)

I kinda like the Qubo. Maybe I will pick a used one up in 5 years. If they make it that long they should be fine.

102

Reporter:  What about black lettter BKR law that says those creditors have rights to force liquidation"

Gibbsy:
"we feel confident that a vast majority of stakeholders are on board with a deal that is in the interest of all those involved. we think a judge can be convinced of this"

Translated:

"We think the shareholders will agree once they find the horse heads in their beds. Why else would we bring Fiat on board?"

103 did the pres just rubber stamp treasury, or make decision?

Gibbsy:

"the pres invovled throughout the process...for many many months...involved in determinations of original plans...how to structure next steps....spent quite a bit of time in 30 days listening to aspects of the deal...if pres didnt agree, i doubt he would have gone out there today and said what he said.....

pres thought in best interest of all....i dont think this was a done deal 30 days ago...i think the auto task force team deserves a ton of credit in bringing two would be partners together...working with stakeholders..and doing something many thought would not happen...they deserve a tremendous amount of credit...those who took sacrifices deserve credit"

104 Man, I am so happy Mercedes unhooked from Chrysler. And I'm thinking the E350 wagon is the right car at the right time to try to run it up to 100,000 miles. Last car I saw 100,000 on was a '63 Sedan de Ville; time to try it on something that won't be half rust by then.

105 Obama: "Your Chrysler warranty will be backed by the full good faith of the United States government."

Up yours, you socialist sack of shit.  If I wanted to by a "People's Car" I'd get one in China.

Skroo any manufacturer that took the bailout.  Screw every last one of them.

106 Ford would definitely be a preferred choice over a manufacturer that accepted the bailout.  But don't forget that Ford , unless I'm wrong, is staffed with UAW employees that greatly assisted in getting us into this mess.

107 AH-FF 2 more questions... How long will a Chapter 11 of this magnitude take? And who assigns the trustee? Please tell me it is not the Attorney General.

108 In a deep, otherworldly voice...
Well now that C11 is near official, this will turn into class warfare,. Hedge funds will note the labor agreements were non-sustainable, and protest the substantial bath they are expected to take, in light of the favorable deal handed to the UAW. The UAW will spew the usual lines about rich fat cats dining on the working class. The press will sympathize with the UAW. Pitchforks and torches will be brought to bear against the greedy hedge fund investors. The funds will take that bath in order to quell public outcry. Things will turn out the same as the original deal. Confidence in the US commercial code will drastically decline, resulting in lower across the board investment, leading ultimately to further economic stagnation; coupled with deficit spending inflation, will lead to that nasty stagflation economic anomaly: Which will near ruin our credit world wide. That causes self perpetuating and exacerbating, stagflation, and poor investment outlook. Which will then "require" the government to become a major investor in business because no one else will invest in American business.  Which will then require American business oversight by the government, under the newly formed office of "Business Tsar". Collapsing American industries one by one fall under this new centrally planned business umbrella. Government efficiency turns the economy into long lines for essentials, government rationed heathcare and other services, and finally, economic equality....And then the zombies come..

Wakes up....What? Huh? Did I just say something? Forget what I just said, I was rambling.

109 Rush really nailed it when he said Obama was the new Juan Peron. Jaysus! This is ridiculous. And Rush's call to an "attractive conservative who can articulate those values" deal was definately a message to Palin. Speaking of which, I saw this morning where she is now twittering. So, for those of ya'll into Twitter, she's alreadly got thousands of followers. I hate Twitter. I don't mind reading what people write sometimes, but it is so annoying to try and keep up a dialog. I hope it dies out soon.

110 fox reporter: why pres mad at hedge funds? they think 29 cents bad

gibbsy:

im not sure pres problem is based on their rights..its based on what he said..as many said...make sacrifices in order for co to move forward
those decided that those steps could be taken...and there were those who decided that they would ask for more than twice your amount...sacrifices havent been made by all..that's why pres said that

fox reporter: it might sound to some that pres wants to punish those who opposed plan

gibbsy

i aint gonna prejudge...except to say there were offers on the table we thought were fair...they had every ability and right to take them

Fox reporter: why work with fiat when failed with Daimler?

gibbsy

they have expertise in restructuring....and expertise in creation and MFR of more fuel efficient engines...to build off earlier question, not altogether surprising that hummer wont survive....hummer didnt do well with 4.50 gas...pres talked about it...any number of occasions pres says American auto cos must build cars with demand and want to buy -- and fiat will do it

fox reporter-is it the "hope" they will be purchased?  govt is not just suggesting, but forcing certain vehicle

gibbsy

pres was clear that fiat cannot take majority ownership until us taxpayer paid back....regardless of why, the pres and vast majority of public agrees that more fuel efficient autos in best interest in country... lessens oil and gas, no foreign oil dependence..less pollutants...many involved in both govt/private sector see the strong desire for more energy efficient autos

111 will nets still broadcast bullshit Obama scripted press conf?

gibbsy:

your question mischaracterizes what happened last night.....you saw pres answer questions about the flu....asked about notre dame....(reporter - didnt mention notre dame in the answer)...pres asked about iraq, pak, autos, economy, the republican congress (huh?)

112

I have a Mazda CX-9 so I guess I can say I'm helping Ford with 14% of an effort.   

113

OT

Don't forget to set your TVs and DVRs tonight.  Palin is on American Chopper tonight at 9PM on TLC. 

114

Read it and weep. The hedge funds are reaping what they sowed.  As I say, screw 'em.

http://tinyurl.com/bstwk4

 

115

*FLASH*

 

Holder is an idiot.

116

Task force is led by an Investment banker with Media experience, political connections and no manufacturing expertise. BK is complex and imagine the number of Chrysler creditors and thier issues. Despite what the administration says this will not be a quick process. So is the end game protect the UAW, screw the "white collar" types and stick FIAT with the problem. ? If Diamler could not fix Chrysler, will FIAT ? Even if you shrunk Chrysler to best offerings can you get the company small enough to break even in a diminished economy. And if that happens who would invest in it ? I suspect the US government will be a long term partner (not investor) with FIAT, regardless.

117 many involved in both govt/private sector see the strong desire for more energy efficient autos

Here comes the punative gas tax.  The only way to turn a "strong desire" by the Government into "strong demand" by the marketplace.

118 What's next? Steel and coal, I would think, make nice gifts to unions. Oil would be a straight takeover. How about transport? Lots of Teamsters out there...

119 Obama just had another press conference, and stated:

"Under my direction, GM and Chrysler are being renamed to reflect a new outlook.  This new direction, being led by me, should reflect not only their existing business, but also my administration.  The new names are:

Christler
Government Motors

Thanks You for coming."

120

Read it and weep. The hedge funds are reaping what they sowed.  As I say, screw 'em.

 

But they're corporations and that means they're all conservative capitalist warmongering pigs!!!!!!

121 #19. Exactly.  Card check will make those unaffordable and/or they will tax the crap out of ownership to level the playing field.

122 Who are Fiat's bondholders?  I would be very nervous about getting into bed with Obama on this one.  Their minority investment will always be outvoted by union/whitehouse coordination.

Fiat should wait for the bankruptcy trustee to offer up outright ownership of the distribution network and a few assembly facilities in right-to-work states.

123 how did biden fuck up so bad?

gibbsy:

biden said something different than what he meant to say

124

biden said something different than what he meant to say

lol

125

April 30 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama criticized Chrysler LLC lenders including hedge funds and other financial institutions that turned down administration loan-reduction proposals, forcing the automaker into bankruptcy.

“I don’t stand with those who held out when everyone else is making sacrifices,” Obama said today in Washington where he announced that Chrysler would proceed with a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing to reorganize into a more viable carmaker in a partnership with Italy’s Fiat SpA.

 

What sacrifices have King Barry made? Just like a goddamn communist. Some are more equal than others. And fuck the hedge fund assholes who donated the the Dims and get their throats cut by them.

126

According to ProPublica  the total bailout, including money given to parts makers and suppliers, is $39.78 billion.

http://www.propublica.org/

 

127 I have a feeling that this "surgical" bankruptcy won't be so surgical. 30 to 60 days? I dun theeenk so, Lucy! For one thing, a quick bankruptcy is going to require a judge who is not obviously biased one way or another, and with enough of a pimp-hand to bring the various debt-holders to agreement. And that's going to be very very tough. No one wants to give anything up.

The UAW is going to have to actually make some serious concessions, and that means serious cutbacks to retiree benefits: nothing else really matters. VEBA will have to be radically restructured and probably cut significantly in order to give Chrysler a decent shot at emerging from bankruptcy. Without significant changes to retiree benefits, the whole charade is a waste of time and Chrysler will just be right back in the dumper in a year or so.

The bondholders are going to have to accept a haircut of some kind...maybe. If the bondholders have bought debt insurance, then you have re-opened the Pandora's box on kind of counterparty risk that brought down AIG. If this is the case, the bondholders have no incentive to settle because they're guaranteed to recover 100 cents on the dollar regardless. (At least in theory.) If this is the case -- and I think it is -- then it means that the federal government will actually be acting against itself because it will have to backstop the insured bonds with more TARP money.

This is a monumental hairball, and I don't see it being resolved in 30-60 days. And Chrysler is an easier job by far than GM will be.

128

OT

This is for the Trekkies out there:

http://tinyurl.com/ctavd8

Int. with JJ Abrams about instilling new life into the Star Trek brand.

129

News Alert from the FDA

 

Botox is causing “life threatening breathing problems”

 

Could it be that we will get relief from Nanny Nan?

130

FOX should offer Biden his own variety show.

 

131 A quick bankruptcy, hell, no asset chapter 7's take at least 60 days. And when there is an 'active creditor' it goes a lot longer.

Three or more creditors, with at least $10,000.00 or more in claims, could have forced Chrysler, or GM into involuntary bankruptcy.

132 You know how they are going to pay for this, with putting mile-tax meters in every car in America!

http://tiny.cc/O07nQ

133

"The UAW is going to have to actually make some serious concessions"

LOL, sure they will...

134 Why Fiat, indeed.  Take a look at the history of Fiat and communism and fascism in Italy.  Pretty spooky stuff.

135 I will never buy another Chrysler or Chevy, and I will only use credit unions for banking. FUCK THEM ALL.

136 sock puppet

137

It seems to me that the auto union fiasco may well be the poison pill that kills  the socialist paradise dream Obama has for America. He is acting like the supreme leader, overstepping his authority like there are no limits. At some point, even the most out of touch pop culture lame brain will start to sense the edge of the abyss. At that point, his rodent supporters in the Congress and Senate will start to smell their own political mortality, when the "go for broke charge into collectivism" starts to crumble into economic chaos. When the teaparties balloon to 100,000, they will start to slide down the ropes in droves, and leave "Dear Leader" swinging in the whirlwind of his own making. I am planting popcorn in anticipation of the shortage...

/wishful thinking?

138 LOL, sure they will...

Hey, I didn't say it was going to happen; just that it needs to happen. But that's why any bankruptcy judge is going to have to be a complete hard-ass: he's going to have to tell the UAW that they either take some pain now, or scramble for the crumbs in a Chapter 7 liquidation. The UAW may have been feeling its oats when they realized they had Bammer and both houses of Congress behind them, but not even that is going to save them if Chrysler completely collapses. The Donks are running head-first into some hard economic truths.

But it's not like the hedge-funds are going to get off fat and happy either. They'll have to take some kind of haircut along with a debt-for-equity deal. The wild-card here, of course, is wether they bought CDSs to cover defaults on their bonds. If that's the case, then they have absolutely no incentive to deal at less than full value -- in fact, they may be legally barred from settling, because that would breach their own fiduciary duty to their clients.

Like I said, this 30-60 day window seems highly unlikely to me. It's a real hairball. And GM hasn't yet accepted the inevitable, so this is just the warm-up act before the main event.

139

The wild-card here, of course, is wether they bought CDSs to cover defaults on their bonds.

The wild card is whether the taxpayers are going to continue to pay out on the CDS's. Because as discussed before, AIG is just a shell company.

140 They're just trying to get everyone used to the word fiat.

fiat: an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, esp. by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it: The king ruled by fiat.

Next up,

fiat money: Money which has no intrinsic value and cannot be redeemed for specie or any commodity, but is made legal tender through government decree.

141 I for one am not giving anyone any crap for wanting Obama to fail.

142 flenser:

CDSs are a legally-binding contract. If the contract isn't honored, it means either criminal action or bankruptcy for the issuing company. Bammer has already pretty much staked out a position that he's not going to let any big banks fail, so it seems to me that CDSs will continue to be honored regardless of risk or exposure.

It just shows the shitty conflict-of-interest problems that arise when the government gets too cozy with the for-profit business world.

143

Monty, good post. Too many players to bring to the table for this to work quickly.  UAW will have to make concessions but I expect Obama to step in and give the UAW everything they ask for- benefits, health care...ect all to be assumed by some new government entity. Expect the same thing for GM and Ford. Chrysler will have to shrink it's US dealer network, only sell it's best Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler offerings and hope FIAT gives it some new cars to compete. GM must resemble Toyota, a few nameplates and a full range of offerings. Ford has similar product weaknesses- only credible in SUV's, Trucks and ok smaller car - but no full range like Toyota, Honda and Nissan. Amazing that both Ford and GM can build a competitive range of cars in Europe but can't do that here.

 

144

CDSs are a legally-binding contract.

AIG has no money to pay your stupid "legally binding contract", as you already know.

it seems to me that CDSs will continue to be honored regardless of risk or exposure.

Translation - you favor the government bailing out the incompetent hedge fund investors. This makes you different from the UAW - how?

145

Bammer has already pretty much staked out a position that he's not going to let any big banks fail

AIG and the hedge funds are most certainly not big banks, or any sort of banks.

146 The big story hear isn't about bankruptcy or capitalism, but dOhbama's solution. 

It analogous to handing your kids over your credit cards plus the task of running your home.  What could possibly go wrong?  

147 So who's to say Obama won't sweeten the offer by adding some $$ if you buy a car from one his UAW buddies, GM or Chrysler?

WTO might have something to say about that.

148 Do you trust anything that has been said or that you are hearing?   He threw his BFF's the hedge fund boys right under the bus.

149 I want to see these bondholders get 100%.  Bammy thinks that he can muscle the bankruptcy judge into seeing things his way.  It won't be that easy unless he draws a judge that he has in his pocket.

150

...I stand with the millions of Americans who want to own and buy Chrysler cars."

Good grief is this imbecile and embarrassment to the Republic. 

151 I expect Obama to step in and give the UAW everything they ask for- benefits, health care...ect all to be assumed by some new government entity.

So true, but at least it would be out in the open and the UAW would be the new welfare queens, driving their Cadillacs.  We could run against that pretty easily.

152 I wonder how anti-trust might figure into all this.  Under normal circumstances, could GM have bought Chrysler or vice versa?  Now, the UAW will essentially own both of Ford's major domestic competitors.  Wait until the Attorney General sees this.  There's no way he'll sign off on an anti-competitive monopoly like the one being formed.  Oh wait...  We're screwed.  But nothing like Ford is going to get it.

153

We are all so lucky to be living in the time of the messiah.  In a few weeks  Chrysler will be fixed, GM on the way to survival, Swine Flu will have a vaccine and the Dow will be back at 9,000.

 

154

Bammy thinks that he can muscle the bankruptcy judge into seeing things his way.  It won't be that easy unless he draws a judge that he has in his pocket.

 

Should we start scheduling hearings on Obumble's illegal influence over bankruptcy judges?

155

Ghost of Lee Atwater @ # 47:

You nailed it.

In addition, why wouldn't Ford simply move offshore and concentrate on making money on cars.  Fuck the UAW.  How would they like losing 100,000+ jobs?  Well, they're asking for it aren't they?

156

This is just phase 1, bitches. 

Phase 2, we have the UAW strike against Ford.

Phase 3 is the tariffs against Toyota and Honda.

Phase 4, if the first three phases don't work, we simply make buying a non GM or Chrysler vehicle illegal. 

Phase 5, Everything's electric, bitches!

157

It will be a cold day in hell when I buy any kind of import, even if it's made in my back yard.  I've been driving GM products for over 25 years.  The excellent service they gave me convinced my Dad to change allegiance and he's been buying them ever since.  Dad to his credit drives them until they're well over 300K miles and then gives them to my sister.  He's trying to wrest my Cadillac from me right now because while it's five years old, it only has 27K miles on it.  He drove it and now covets it.  Unfortunately for him, I'm not done with it since it is a cool vehicle and bankruptcy or not, GM is not dealing on the trucks I want.

I'm not happy about the hand outs but don't forget that most bad things that occur in the U. S., especially to business, can be traced back to the government.  Take a look at the 1935 Wagner Act and then sit down and shut up.

If Corvette or Cadillac get sucked up by a foreign concern, I'm blaming you.

158

@117: "Here comes the punative gas tax.  The only way to turn a "strong desire" by the Government into "strong demand" by the marketplace."

Ford was calling for a $1/gal tax increase a day or two ago.....

I think I'm going to invest in a nice siphon and "redistribute" gas from all my Communist neighbors here in the People's Respublika Of Santa Monica.

159

I'm not happy about the hand outs but don't forget that most bad things that occur in the U. S., especially to business, can be traced back to the government.  Take a look at the 1935 Wagner Act and then sit down and shut up.

 

The real tragedy wasn’t so much the Wagner Act. Hell, you expected FDR to push through his communist agenda back in 1935. The real tragedy was that FDR with his court packing scheme intimidated SCOTUS and cause them to reverse themselves in their killing of new deal legislation. The 5 to 4 decision in National Labor Relations Board v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation allowed the government to then call ANYTHING interstate commerce. That Hate Crimes bill we were discussing in the other thread is a prime example.

160

@142: "CDSs are a legally-binding contract."

Legally-binding contract?  No such thing, my friend.  There are myriad reasons why contracts can be voided, reformed, modified, etc., including "public policy" grounds.  If the government - which is now heavily involved in running the companies in question - decides it doesn't want to pay, it is a simple matter to find a public policy reason why such payment will not be forthcoming.

161 THIS IS CREEPY

President Barack Obama  announced Thursday a merger between Italy's Fiat and stricken US auto giant Chrysler which is filing for Chapter 11 bankcrupcy after debt-restructuring talks collapsed.

I didn't realize that Obama did everything these days.

162

The Big Three (yes an old term) are responsible for their own problems.  As organizations, they were unwilling and unable to provide a full range of models - unlike Toyota, Niassan and Mazda. Interesting that the truck divisions did a better job of listening to their customers. Trucks and SUV's are their only competitive models. GM spent billions of dollars and effort to re-create Cadillac, their markee brand that they let slip into disrepair - as an auto naker how do you ever allow your key brand to get stale ?  American car buyers get this. Detroit's been living on borrowed time ever since Japanese firms started building product in America. The mini-van is a great example, after allowing Honda, Toyota and Nissan to dominate the high end- Only Chrysler responds - late - close to a recession, so they can't recover development and tooling costs and earn a profit. Combine the UAW, infelxible work rules, health costs, retiree benefits with a recession and you get a perfect storm. Obama does not get this, so even if you give Chrysler and GM everything they want - take away health cost, retiree benefits and just let them build cars, can they do that.  Do they have the talent and will they let that talent shine ? And will they let them get rich ? Innovators and risk takers need to be motivated, would you go to work for Chrysler or apple ?, GM or Cisco ? Ford or Intel ?

163 Thanks for the nuanced comment, Vic.  Every last one of the political set will have Mobil 1 on their hands by the time this all plays out.

164 So, Obama has essentially thrown the bond holders under the bus. Do they have any legal recourse?

What will happen to the bond market? Has Obama pretty much destroyed it? What are the implications of a decimated bond market?

And finally (thanks to Rush for pointing this out) if the UAW owns a large stake in chrysler and gm, how can they, as owners of the competitors, actually negotiate a contract with Ford? Isn't that, oh, what's that term? Conflict of interest?

165

Why isn't anyone asking where the Constitutional Authority is found for the feds doing this??  Hello GOP?  Where is this power enumerated?  When will stockholders sue in Federal Court? 

Not that I'd expect most federal judges these days to actually step up and defend the Constitution over the Central Government... 

166

Announcing the ACORN, Chrysler's first ever car designed by President Obama himself. Colors: Black, Brown only. Wheels: 3 , Room for 2 people and their pet. No space for children. Runs on Solar. Biofuels or battery. Range 10 miles.(Recharge- re-load takes 2 days) Radio: Gets NPR and CBS stations. GPS: included shows location of government offices, Starbucks, union halls. Designed to last 3 years, car is fully bio-degradable. (Can not be left outside in snow or rain),  V chip enables drivers to make unlimted votes at any polling place during an election period - they can just drive by.

Obama said he was inspired by the Lada (Russian copy of a FIAT) and the famous East German Trabant. "We have updated them to help end climate change and reflect new sensibilities." said the President and now Co-CEO of Chrysler. Any driver should get as many votes as they want.

The car will cost $ 20,000 each to build, retail for $ 5,000 but be rented for $ 2 a month to disadvantaged people only.  When asked:  Why make a vehicle to lose money ? Obama said 'We all need to adjust our thinking".  The New York Times has already hearlded this as "Innovation we Need".

 

 

167

I have a serious question and, as there appear to be a number of lawyers running this site, maybe you can give me an answer.

Where are the boards of directors for these companies? As I understand it, the money was given to both the banks and the car companies with no strings attached (the original TARP cluster f*** rules). Therefore no contract between the Feds and the companies except "pay it back when you can". Then three months later the Narccisist (sp?)-in-Chief rolls in with his Chicago Protection Racket and takes half the company for himself, gives 40% to the Unions and stiffs the bondholders. Then he says you're now partners with FIAT (ironic name, that). Where the hell are the BODs? Don't they have any recourse in the courts. I mean, jeezuz, what the hell??!!

168 Ford's next union negotiations are going to be brutal not only will the UAW have the labor interest to push but they will represent the Chrysler and probably the GM corps.  In addition the majority owner will be the federal government who can apply pressure in lots of other areas to force Ford to comply with what the competition wants for them.  It wouldn't surprise me to see that the Obama administration uses this as a way to force Ford into the same kind of deal so they control all 3 of the US automakers.  Also a threat to all other industries who Obama sets his sights on.

Second the Chrysler deal guts the idea behind secured and unsecured debit.  As a result of moving an unsecured creditor ahead of both the stockholders and the senior debit holders is going to cause a massive outflow from corporate bonds over the next few years.  This will put a major hurt on on companies of all kinds

169 @156

To continue:

Phase 6:  ?????

Phase 7: Profit!

170 A lot of Americans are going to wake up and realize that the unions gave up absolutely nothing and that the prez took their side against the bond holders.  Why does hillary look like hell?

171

Everyone knows Presidente 666 is an expert about the auto business.  When his father abandoned him, and his momie left him, and his step daddy said eeeeeeech, his grandparents bought him a Tonka truck, because they were hopelessly white people who didn't realize that as a chuild of the People Obama, blessed be his name, really wanted the Koran, and the Little Red Book.

Both enable you the master the essentials of the auto industry.   Just like me.

 

Would you like fries with your order?

172 You will find men who want to be carried on the shoulders of others, who think that the world owes them a living.

173 Nice to see someone who understands fascism, yes please buy Fords, their european cars are damn good, one thing about Fiat is it has a vast experience in geting robots to build cars when the socialist workshyforce cant be bothered. Obama is too ignorant to have looked at this, should be funny eh?

174 A thought, google the history of BMC/british leyland/rover in England, the Labour gov nationalised it (a whole lot more honestly than your closet fascists) quality of construction and design degenerated leading to extinction, shame the libs disown history isnt it?

175

To answer Greg's question, he's trying to achieve a "fair" outcome as he judges it, regardless of preexisting rules and agreements. And this is how he expects his judicial appointees to function as well. It's not about established law nor even the Constitution anymore, it's about fairness as seen through Obama's eyes.

Our next automotive move is to replace the truck. As it happens, Ford always has made the best trucks. Nice how that works out.

176 BK has never been about fairness, but how to make the best of a bad situtation by getting senior management and creditors on the same page. and then working out a deal. Employees: rank and file and white collar are a bit like creditors to the extent they are owed back wages, but nothing more. Secured creditors have greater rights than unsecured, but a creditor is a creditor. Equity investors come last. Obama, nor courts can remove those rights without some agreement. If you have a first mortgage on Chrysler real estate and improvements or equipment - they can't eliminate that just because "the leader" says so. The owner of the mortage has to agree. Courts can do a "cram down", but that tends to happen when sides are very far apart,creditors have been less willing to compromise and the economic benefit of debt reduction is clear to the surviving entity. Judges have to weigh all this info, along with creditors and their representation. Clearly lots of negotiations have occurred prior to this point. I would love to know who these "greedy" funds are and what kind of a "haircut" they have already taken. Issue is can company survive as a going concern, if not you go C7 and liquidate.

177 Facism has come to America.  Allah praise our Lord and Saviour Obama!

178 The handwriting is on the wall…it is financially unwise to invest in any U.S. company with “Big Labor” contracts. As an investor, I take the risk with my hard-earned money, but end up at the end of the line in bankruptcy court. It is just too risky for me as an individual investor to leave my money with these companies. It is better to go find good value in companies with no Big Labor connections. I’ve instructed my broker to sweep my portfolio clean of anything that is remotely connected to Big Labor, and never buy any back. Who does Obama think funds these big, medium, and small U.S corporations anyway? If private investment flees the companies with Big Labor connections, those companies will also fail.

179 Bonds are a favored investment vehicle in a down or sideways economy, and string troubled businesses through to the recovery. Now...Though......I wouldn't touch a bond with a 10 foot poll with a prophylactic on the end. Right in the middle of a big recession, when businesses needed private investor bond funds to remain viable...Risk associated with bonds jumps....Who will invest in our economy now?

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