April 27, 2006

Videotaped Girl-Fight, With Mother Watching, Draws Controversy
— Ace

It's not really that interesting, honestly.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, yeah, if the mother of the girl doing most of the punching was on hand, she should have stopped it.

On the other hand-- it really wasn't that brutal of a beating, and isn't there some value in letting kids, um, work out their problems on their own?

I'm not being facetious.

Sometimes kids fight. Yes, parents should break it up if present, but then, I don't know the details of this.

I don't know. My dad always had the same advice when it came to bullies, and it wasn't "Talk your problems out."

The video suggests the fight might have been gang-related, though.

Thanks to Craig.

Posted by: Ace at 09:32 AM | Comments (28)
Post contains 138 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Is this an example of a woman and a minority being hardest hit?

Posted by: pajama momma at April 27, 2006 09:36 AM (IC2Qj)

2 My dad always had the same advice when it came to bullies, and it wasn't "Talk your problems out."

Mine always said, "You don't need to win, you just need to hurt 'em bad enough that they'll think twice next time."

I'll be teaching my kids the same. Nothing wrong with a little brawling, so long as you're not the one being the bully. It builds character and sometimes it's the only way to earn respect. Besides, fighting is a useful skill that occasionally comes in handy.

Posted by: The Warden at April 27, 2006 09:43 AM (8WTw1)

3 I grew up on Air Force bases so fighting was a way of life. When my dad retired we moved to Austin. I was five years old. Our first day there we went to the local pool and were the only non-blacks. This big kid about twelve years old came over and demanded any money I had so without a word I launched myself off the ground and caught him on the chin with an right cross. He went down, out cold and I pounded him till the lifeguard came and pulled me off. Nobody ever fucked with us again.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at April 27, 2006 09:55 AM (8dG6A)

4 as a parent, I take my inspiration for from the game of hockey.

So long as it's fairly equal, they're both on their feet and trading shots, I let them go ... once they land on the ground, I step in and break it up.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 27, 2006 10:02 AM (PcDvW)

5 >>So long as it's fairly equal, they're both on their feet and trading shots, I let them go ... once they land on the ground, I step in and break it up.

And once a child lands on the ground, hits their head hard and goes into a coma or dies...are you going to sue yourself for negligence?

I remember the case of a birthday party for 11 year old girls. One kissed another's *boyfriend.* The mother - 20 years old, I think, told her daughter to "take care of business" - then joined in in beating that girl into a coma.

Adults who stand around and watch children fight are contributng to the delinquency of a minor...and teaching them that fighting is the only way to solve one's problems.

Reprehensible.

Posted by: Barbara at April 27, 2006 10:12 AM (wJDGX)

6 My kid, who can be seen here, flipping Lenin the bird, had "issues" in pre school, taking swings at the older kids. I was hoping that the "law of the playground" would show him the errors of his ways. Sure I told him to knock it off but was pretty sure that the message would be better understood from a knuckle sandwich coming from a 2nd grader. Problem was, the kids at that school, along with the staff, were a bunch of "tell us how you feel about your choice to hit the other kid". Good lord.

Posted by: Steve at April 27, 2006 10:15 AM (CRU3F)

7 I've never been in a physical fight in my life, except with my two sisters. Those were some ugly bouts. If someone took a swing at me today, it would be the old "two hits--me gettin hit and then me hittin the floor." Over.

Posted by: kevlarchick at April 27, 2006 10:54 AM (bWRxm)

8 Hi Barbara,

Eat shit. Die.

I'm not talking about 'cock fighting with kids' here, you moron. Hence my use of 'trading shots' as opposed to 'until one kid beats the other to a pulp.'

But I'm guessing you're

1) Not a parent

and

2) Don't watch hockey.

which explains your leap to 'coma/lawsuit' and inclusion of the term 'reprehensible' which is apt, if I were talking about setting up fights with kids and placing bets on the outcome.

... gad, I can tell, should you end up giving birth, you're going to be one of *those* nattering moms at the playground.

Some unsolicted advice, should you end up having a boy, just name him 'Llewellyn' and be done with it.

Llewellyn's don't mind being motherhenned until they're, say, 25.

million dollar lawsuit, coma, deliquency of a minor

.... jeesh.

Hockey playoffs are on now, Barbara ... you might want to watch a game or two.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 27, 2006 10:56 AM (PcDvW)

9 Not a relevant example Barbera, we aren't talking about a parent joining in to beat a child into a coma.

Oh, and screw your sanctimony too. Nobody asserted it was the only way, but whether you like it or not, fighting is in fact, a way to settle your differences.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 27, 2006 11:00 AM (pzen5)

10 Hocky sucks but I better not say it too loud someone will kick my ass.

Posted by: DaveS at April 27, 2006 11:30 AM (CUo3X)

11 If you ask me (which nobody did), all spectator sports suck (unless you're playing).

Posted by: sandy burger at April 27, 2006 11:54 AM (K2rlS)

12 I picture Ace's dad to be kind of like Jon Voight's character in Zoolander.

Posted by: The Colossus at April 27, 2006 12:07 PM (G4rp8)

13 When I was in the 6th grade, a bully who had been harassing me was waiting for me when I got home from a sports practice with my mother driving me. There was a group of kids standing there to watch. My mom said, "go deck him and he won't do it again". She watched as I went and landed one good punch and the kid decided he'd had enough and left. End of story. I haven't watched the video, if a parent is observing a beat down, that's one thing, but boys have been in fist fights forever, and if the good kids are sissified by their parents, that just makes the bullies lives easier.

Not sure I'm crazy about girls doing it though, unless there's mud involved...

Posted by: Zuke at April 27, 2006 12:11 PM (Tv/EO)

14 ... and the girls are over 18 of course... My joke looks kinda creepy in this context.

Posted by: Zuke at April 27, 2006 12:13 PM (Tv/EO)

15 I remember the case of a birthday party for 11 year old girls. One kissed another's *boyfriend.* The mother - 20 years old, I think, told her daughter to "take care of business" - then joined in in beating that girl into a coma.

Wait, a 20-year old had an 11-year old daughter?

Posted by: El Greco at April 27, 2006 01:03 PM (lw4P2)

16 El Greco,

Just skip it - Barbara's confused enough as it is.

The advice I got from my parents (I was not a big kid, and I wasn't the sort to bully others or pick fights myself) was this: if another kid is giving you trouble, hit him in the face as hard as you can. I only had to follow it once, and nobody tried to start anything with me ever again.

Posted by: jerkoff at April 27, 2006 02:23 PM (lbmO+)

17 Hey Barbara, you're new around here, aren't you?

Posted by: jhc at April 27, 2006 02:30 PM (+lA9g)

18 Any parent standing around watching a fight is sending a terrible message to both kids.

Posted by: sandy burger at April 27, 2006 02:30 PM (Cpse7)

19 My parents taught me I needed to stick up for myself. But if they had just stood by while somebody else beat up on me, I would have felt very betrayed by them.

Posted by: sandy burger at April 27, 2006 02:32 PM (ePQxy)

20 When I was in 4th grade I got the crap beat out of me by three 6th graders because I wouldn't give them my candy. I was very small as a child, so even one of them would have overmatched me. They really roughed me up - black eye, bloody nose and lip, destroyed my bike.

Flash forward - I'm 19. I'm a guest at a party where the only person I know is the girl who brought me. Who do I see but the ringleader of the troika. I have about 3 inches and 40 pounds on him. Finished my beer, walked over, said his name, and when he looked at me I cold cocked him. Knocked him back on an easy chair. Gave him 2 or 3 more shots and then left the party and walked home. Sometimes violence is good for the soul.

Posted by: steve_in_hb at April 27, 2006 04:26 PM (PIs8p)

21 Any parent standing around watching a fight is sending a terrible message to both kids

I'm guessing you, also, don't have kids. There's a distinction between 'standing around watching' and 'letting the two kids sort it out, so long as the fight is reasonably fair.'

For god's sake - it's not like the playground turns into ThunderDome, but if my kid and another are getting into a 'fight' that doesn't involve weapons or such, then I'll let them sort it out ... again, there's judgement involved.


My parents taught me I needed to stick up for myself. But if they had just stood by while somebody else beat up on me, I would have felt very betrayed by them

Perhaps rather than standing there feeling betrayed by your parents you should have defended yourself.

Which is the point.

And, again - and again - and again - it's not a situation where one kid is 'beating up on the other' and the parent just stands around watching or yelling at his kid like he's a coach and his kid is in the UFC Octagon

For god's sake, doesn't anybody watch hockey anymore?

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 27, 2006 04:30 PM (PcDvW)

22 Perhaps rather than standing there feeling betrayed by your parents you should have defended yourself.

I was talking about a hypothetical. Hence the word "if". And you're right, I'm not a parent.

it's not a situation where one kid is 'beating up on the other' and the parent just stands around watching or yelling at his kid like he's a coach and his kid is in the UFC Octagon

It's not? I didn't know that. It's not clear to me what the context of this fight is. The only information I have is that two teenage girls were in a fight (described as "brutal", whatever that means) while a parent stood there watching and somebody filmed the whole thing. That sounds pretty wacked to me, but I guess you know more details of the situation than I do, so maybe you're right. I don't know.

Posted by: sandy burger at April 27, 2006 05:14 PM (FmfCF)

23 Also, I have to admit some amount of sexism here. I find girls being hit far more disturbing than boys being hit, regardless of who's doing the hitting. That may be wrong of me, but it's ingrained.

Posted by: sandy burger at April 27, 2006 05:17 PM (FmfCF)

24 Also, I have to admit some amount of sexism here. I find girls being hit far more disturbing than boys being hit, regardless of who's doing the hitting. That may be wrong of me, but it's ingrained.


Sandy, I don't know have you ever heard the Chris LeDoux song "Copenhagen Angel" there are some pretty tough Cow Chicks. I have also seen some pretty scary Gang Chicks in L.A.

Though I believe that no matter if girls or boys that we need to teach our children to stand up for themselves against bully's, in the real world not everything can be resolved with words (i.e. Iraq..etc.). Bully's need to be handled and if words don't work then actions need to speak loud and clear.

I am a mother of 2 girls, and I am one of 4 sisters...we needed to learn to stand up for ourselves. We learned to do this without becoming rough around the edges and still hold our ground. I would not sit around and "watch" my child be beaten nor would I encourage them to beat the hell out of someone for no reason and CERTAINLY not over a man! But I do teach them to stand up for themselves and not be a door mat, because somethings are worth fighting for and protecting.

Because one day they will grow up and be fully functioning citizens and vote for laws and be faced with defending our country.

---------
Barbara....get a grip, your wound a bit too tight!


Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 27, 2006 07:07 PM (HEjoD)

25 I remember my first day of school. Mama didn't have any milk-money for me so she gave me a switchblade knife and told me I could get all the milk-money I needed with it, and even some pizza and burrito money too!

And I did.

God bless Mama.

Posted by: Billy Wayne, Inmate#29845, Huntsville Unit at April 27, 2006 07:50 PM (EIdUC)

26 Long time reader, first time commenter. Great blog, Ace!

I'm a student at Fresno State University (The city where this happened), and we discussed this incident in my Criminology class last night. My teacher works in the Probation dept, running a youth boot camp, and had some information on the case. Apparently, the parent didn't just watch, she most likely set the fight up. And, in Fresno, the phrase "might have been gang related" usually means "is definitely gang related." Supporting this hypothesis is the fact that the two families involved nearly got into a shootout after the fact. I'm all for two guys solving their differences with some brute force, on occasion, but I don't think this particular case fits the bill.

Posted by: mrkickstar at April 28, 2006 03:30 AM (fXVNo)

27 I don't think that people respect violence enough without getting into a fight or two. Not that I am advocating violence but by removing the 'real' fighting, i.e. keeping it in the video games but not the playground, I think we are desensitizing our kids to the consequences of it. Most are real quick to get in a scuffle or two as adults but they may not be if they knew what it was like to actually be punched in the face or kciked in the groin.

There's way too much psychology going on in the schools. If most dhimmies got into a few rough and tumbles in school, they might not be so repressed once they grew up.

Posted by: Pixelflash at April 28, 2006 07:29 AM (O+1/6)

28 that girlfight was not as brutal or bloody at all. girlfights happends all days and nothing unusual with 2 girls in a streetfight.

the funny thing in this fight, was the mother of one girl just looking at the girlfight, because her daughter beat the shit out of the other girl. if her daughter had got her ass kicked in the girlfight, i guess the mother had stopped the fight.

what happens if the other girls mother had arrived. i guess that there would have been another fight then, mom vs mom or what???

Posted by: Frank at April 29, 2006 02:33 PM (vobb/)

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