February 28, 2009
— Ace The Church Committee destroyed the CIA's operations division for... well, forever. Let's see if we can't hit that mark again.
The 'fact-finding' effort will seek details on secret prisons and interrogation methods -- but will not aim to determine if CIA officials broke laws, legislative sources say.
By Greg Miller
February 27, 2009
Reporting from Washington - The Senate Intelligence Committee is preparing to launch an investigation of the CIA's detention and interrogation programs under President George W. Bush, setting the stage for a sweeping examination of some of most secretive and controversial operations in recent agency history.
The inquiry is aimed at uncovering new information on the origins of the programs as well as scrutinizing how they were executed -- including the conditions at clandestine CIA prison sites and the interrogation regimens used to break Al Qaeda suspects, according to Senate aides familiar with the investigation plans.
Officials said the inquiry was not designed to determine whether CIA officials broke laws. "The purpose here is to do fact-finding in order to learn lessons from the programs and see if there are recommendations to be made for detention and interrogations in the future," said a senior Senate aide, who like others described the plan on condition of anonymity because it had not been made public.
The investigation also could draw comparisons to the special Senate committee formed to investigate the CIA in 1975 and headed by Sen. Frank Church, an Idaho Democrat. Revelations by the Church Committee led to greater congressional oversight and legislation restricting intelligence activities.
The terms and scope of the new inquiry still were being negotiated by members of the committee and senior staffers Thursday. The senior aide said that the committee had no short-term plans to hold public hearings, and that it was not clear whether the panel would release its final report to the public.
The inquiry, which could take a year or more to complete, means the CIA will once again be the target of intense congressional scrutiny at a time when it is engaged in two wars and its ongoing pursuit of Al Qaeda.
During the Bush administration, the agency was often able to safeguard many of those secrets. Lawmakers have never been told the locations of the CIA's secret prisons overseas, for example.
I'd like to point out this is an irrelevant detail as far as lawmakers are concerned. If you know the prisons exist and what is being done there and who is being held, what does it matter as far as a lawmaker where the site is?
The Bush Administration has kept this secret for diplomatic reasons -- the countries allowing us to keep sites on their soil do so at great risk to themselves. They face possible uproar from their citizens, strained relations with other countries in a position to thwart their ambitions (as France can thwart Poland), and of course: actual reprisal from Al Qaeda.
Bush kept this secret because the countries demanded it and because he knew Senators would leak this information almost immediately. Which they will.
Panetta argued that CIA officers should not face prosecution if they were acting on orders in accordance with Bush administration legal opinions.
"I would not support, obviously, an investigation or a prosecution of those individuals," Panetta said. "I think they did their job, they did it pursuant to the guidance that was provided them, whether you agreed or disagreed with it."
News of the inquiry was greeted with concern among agency veterans.
"There is a good deal of investigation fatigue, and a feeling that the agency has become even more than before a piñata," said a former high-ranking CIA official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The new investigation is likely to "stimulate more risk aversion," the former official said. "There's a potential cost to other operations down the road when the current administration says, 'We would like you to take this operation, it's been blessed by lawyers and briefed by Congress.' Why should we do anything anywhere near cutting-edge if down the road the next administration can decide to get back at their political opponents?"
The panel will also look at whether lawmakers were kept fully informed. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the committee, and others have said that the Bush administration improperly withheld information from Congress on the CIA's operations.
Senate investigators plan a similar line of inquiry, with a goal of assessing the effectiveness of enhanced interrogation techniques employed by the CIA, including sleep deprivation and subjecting prisoners to cold temperatures.
Panetta's immediate predecessor as CIA chief, Michael V. Hayden, has defended the agency's use of such methods and argued that the agency should not be bound by Army Field Manual constraints.
Thanks to WilliamA.
Posted by: Team Obama, Diversionary Tactics Division and not at all destroying the economy at February 28, 2009 04:36 AM (swuwV)
Posted by: Disease Ridden Vermin at February 28, 2009 04:39 AM (Tha0W)
Posted by: mark c at February 28, 2009 04:43 AM (5TzIe)
Posted by: Bruce at February 28, 2009 04:44 AM (EpnLL)
I just posted this in the overnight thread because I didn't see this new one. Sorry for the repeat. But damn, this is the first fun idea I have had since we elected tidy bowl man. (He is dumping us down the crapper, but most people only smell the nice floral scent.)
How do you nominate someone for a Guinness World Record?I think we should flood their offices with Obama nominations:
Most money charged in a 7 day period; Most illegal money collected in a Pres. campaign; Most lies told in a single speech; Most 'umms' in a single Press Conf.; Most stump speeches made by a Pres. after he is elected.
This could be really fun!
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 04:47 AM (penCf)
Well, I never doubted the self-destructive nature of the leftist brain.
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Savage is right.
Posted by: Sen. Gov. E. Buzz Miller, PhD at February 28, 2009 04:47 AM (xUZkt)
How did we end up with such a scewed up country?
Our Congress is a complete disaster and a disgrace. A bunch of jokers.
Posted by: Harry at February 28, 2009 04:49 AM (zFde/)
Well, I guess its been awhile since 9-12, or 9-13 or whatever the fuck that shit was where a few hundred people died. Might as well go back to putting shitloads of money and energy into prosecuting our own guys.
Anyone think this isnt because soros has a vice on the sacks of all those cocksucker senators he got elected?
Posted by: TMF at February 28, 2009 04:50 AM (/YM8H)
A wise man once said, "you always end up with the government that the voting welfare recipients in the apartment building three blocks down deserve."
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2009 04:51 AM (EtTEh)
Thank you for the recognition Ace
If you have the stomach for it Nancy Pelosi was on Maddow talking about her support for the "Truth" commission.
My guess is that the democrats know the economy is going to stay ugly so witchhunts are in.
Posted by: William Amos at February 28, 2009 05:02 AM (W2Bz+)
Well, while we're here, anyone need some assistance? I mean, since everything is going to shit, I should be consulted. I'm a multidisciplinary expert at these things.
Posted by: Jamie Gorelick - Partitions, Fences, Dividers and Walls at February 28, 2009 05:02 AM (swuwV)
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 05:06 AM (penCf)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 28, 2009 05:07 AM (Ygf78)
Their findings will be released Oct. 2010, right?
And October, 2012.
Posted by: huerfano at February 28, 2009 05:13 AM (knHvu)
So this is the late 70's again, huh?
Economy - credit issues, unemployment, high taxes? Check.
Pres. elected b/c he's not "like the others"? Check.
Automakers in the crapper? Check.
Give away influence overseas? Check.
Expand the giving away of OP money? Check.
Battlestar Galactica still on TV? Check.
Crappy Star Trek movie coming out? Check.
well, time to haul out the tight pants & disco balls, boys & girls, 'cause the Village People aren't far away.
Posted by: Jess at February 28, 2009 05:16 AM (kRVIg)
Posted by: Pavel at February 28, 2009 05:19 AM (O3Go1)
Why have hearings or release the full report to the public, when you can just leak the most favorable and out-of-context snippets and timed for maximum effect or for maximum distraction.
These democrats. What a bunch of tools.
Posted by: SlaveDog at February 28, 2009 05:24 AM (LDTnn)
So, is this another Obama flip-flop? Or is he just doing the work "of the people"?
These fuck bags won't protect healthcare workers from refusing to do things against their beliefs, but they will protect terrorists?!
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 05:24 AM (penCf)
Posted by: SlaveDog at February 28, 2009 05:28 AM (LDTnn)
Posted by: Stanford Matthews at February 28, 2009 05:28 AM (XLsOK)
On the bright side, maybe they'll make Bush a scapegoat to the extent that he'll actually feel the need to defend himself. Seeing as they're going to continue at this, I would be interested in getting a pool going on how many years it'll take.
Posted by: AD at February 28, 2009 05:32 AM (Gw0+y)
The Rats defended then Pres.Clinton, and then defended all of Obama's nominees, but want to investigate the very people keeping us safe?
People are being spoon fed this shit. We must make them think for themselves.
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 05:33 AM (penCf)
Posted by: Reiver at February 28, 2009 05:34 AM (lwDPK)
I'm with the Anchoress on this one: Bring it on! Let's bring everything into the light: all the decisions, all the memos, who was briefed on what: the whole smash. If the Republicans have any balls, they can ...
... and now I see the flaw in my reasoning.
Posted by: Brown Line at February 28, 2009 05:37 AM (4SWwh)
Coming soon: Gas lines and rationing.
Posted by: lmg at February 28, 2009 05:45 AM (A/vgC)
And those legislators directing the investigations and the liberal media (BIRM) celebrating them will stop demagoguing and grandstanding on the very day Michelle Obama is beheaded by Bin Laden, so quit peeking at your calendars.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 28, 2009 05:46 AM (swuwV)
As a taxpayer, I have a right to know everything that my government does.
Posted by: FireHorse at February 28, 2009 05:48 AM (5KNeJ)
If only that was what this was all about.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 28, 2009 05:53 AM (swuwV)
Dick Morris said that Panetta was nominated in order to dismantle the CIA. This is the first step in that program.
On a side note I just watched 3 idiots on Fox news actually defend a plan by the Commies to take over peoples 401K retirement programs.
People, the idiot liberals will defend ANY stupid and unconstitutional plan offered by the One.
Posted by: Vic at February 28, 2009 05:55 AM (f6os6)
Posted by: lmg at February 28, 2009 05:56 AM (A/vgC)
I'm sure the MSM will treat this just like the Valerie Plame story.
Posted by: tcbevo at February 28, 2009 05:57 AM (z4daD)
Grooming the witnesses for the libtard wet-dream Bush frogmarch I see....
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 28, 2009 06:05 AM (MlEgW)
Here's the plan:
All of the Valerie Plame armchair types spill every secret to Congress, giving them all of the ammo they need to hamstring field operations. The CIA will then be reduced to a bunch of office workers in McLean writing reports.
And if their fuck-up results in successful terrorist attack? Blame George Bush.
Posted by: Three Fingered Lefty at February 28, 2009 06:13 AM (Ohodx)
Damned sock puppet.
Posted by: Tinian at February 28, 2009 06:14 AM (Ohodx)
Well, it's not like we didn't know this was coming. But this political witch hunt has a particular stench because there was an actual priority and a goal to be met, namely preventing another 9/11.
There are so many things wrong with this, as my fellow morons have ably noted above. One other bad aspect is that our enemies are watching what this administration does very carefully to spot any weakness they can exploit against us. I'm afraid they'll find a lot with the current bunch of idiots in Washington.
The other thing that bothers me is the hallmark of what passes for retarded leftist thinking: there is no right or wrong, good or evil. Legal opinions are just that- opinions that can change with the wind. Meanwhile, out here in the real world, the rest of us know differently.
Has anyone else noticed that matters of law are never settled anymore? There always seems to be a challenge to an issue that should have been written in stone. I tend to be rather black-or-white in my thinking, what with the manufacturing background and all, but what use is the SCOTUS if they can't say with certainty that any law has already been decided, fucker, get out of my courtroom, and stay out. Or any judge, for that matter.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at February 28, 2009 06:20 AM (ZGhSv)
I think it's almost past time for that make them think stuff. We are nearing the point where we need to make them flee back to their McMansions section 8 tenements newsrooms studio warrens foreclosed fliphouses ratholes under a hail of enfilading fire.
Posted by: monkeyfan at February 28, 2009 06:24 AM (cEE8N)
Now you are officially on THEIR list now. You'll be famous!
Les Mis songs just keep running through my head. Coincidence, I think not.
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 06:28 AM (penCf)
Posted by: torabora at February 28, 2009 06:33 AM (Tou3T)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 28, 2009 06:39 AM (VW9/y)
OT Anyone hear of the band School of Fish? There album is fitting right now. Here are the songs: King of the Dollar, Three Strange Days, Rose Colored Glasses, Under the Microscope, Euphoria, Fell, Speechless, Wrong, Deep End, Talk Like Strangers.
Pretty fitting song titles, huh? It was released April 1, 1991. Even the band's name is fitting.
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 06:40 AM (penCf)
Posted by: Ombudsman at February 28, 2009 06:46 AM (fWF4Q)
Let's make that "could". Can't underestimate the extent of the ineptness of the Republican leadership
Posted by: Ombudsman at February 28, 2009 06:47 AM (fWF4Q)
Posted by: Mark at February 28, 2009 06:55 AM (h0ovq)
The left-tits our esteemed President represents have been yapping for Bush's neocon tyrant fascist racist monkey capitalist head on a democrat pike for 8 years now.
It's fix'n to be a big ass list before these fools are finished fucking this republican Union of States up.
25 -30 million capitalist scum up for reeducation or a prairie firing squad according to one of our President's mentors.
Posted by: monkeyfan at February 28, 2009 06:55 AM (cEE8N)
Oh, almost forgot.
I can't wait till we get to hear some truth commission interrogator spout out a variation of: Have you now or have you ever been a member of the Bush administration?
Posted by: monkeyfan at February 28, 2009 07:00 AM (cEE8N)
Posted by: the real joe at February 28, 2009 07:06 AM (VBjKB)
If Obama didn't have MSM in his pocket, I wonder what the last 2 years would have looked like? I wonder what this"economic crisis" Would have looked like?
I figure would have started the process to drill for everything, everywhere. Stocks would not have fallen like they did. More arrest of traitors/terroerists on our own soil. Money donated to charity would be up, not down. . . . .
Posted by: outraged at February 28, 2009 07:16 AM (penCf)
Posted by: CoolCzech at February 28, 2009 08:20 AM (iafWn)
Posted by: CoolCzech at February 28, 2009 08:23 AM (iafWn)
Posted by: monkeyfan at February 28, 2009 08:54 AM (cEE8N)
Posted by: whiskey at February 28, 2009 09:26 AM (L03mw)
42 Ombudsman "If the Repubs don't shoot themselves in the foot (always a possibility), they should take back the House in 2010."
Wishful thinking. Obama is a product of the Chicago machine, and Chicago hasn't had a Republican mayor in 50 years. Considering how quickly he's moved to ruin the American economy, we can be confident he'll make sure the electoral process is rigged too. It will effectively become one-party rule.
The MSM will do their part by continued attacks on Palin to keep her neutralized, and on anybody else they deem a threat. Jindal is going to find out what it's like to be Palin'ed.
The MSM attitudes might change when they actually have to start paying the higher taxes required by their Messiah. They'll probably take the loss of the mortgage interest deduction personally.
Related- we can probably expect another round of mortgage bail-outs after everybody who stretched themselves to buy a McMansion can't afford them. As the markets become saturated with empty McMansions a lot of contstruction people will be out of jobs, and then there'll be another round of bail-outs and higher taxes to pay for it. Almost funny how a death spiral works.
When the income tax well runs dry, we'll all be ready to surrender our retirement plans for the greater good right? After all, the needs of the shiftless outweigh the needs of the workers. Slackers of the world unite!
Posted by: Publicserf at February 28, 2009 11:13 AM (rsOXj)
Here is the risk Democrats take:
What if there is another major terrorist attack killing lots of Americans? Particularly of the nuclear kind, as Pakistan falls further apart?
EVERY CIA agent will speed-dial what is left of the media and announce that "I could have stopped it just like Jack Bauer but Congress would not let me."
Plus every Republican will point to results: Bush having a free hand, no attacks, Dems attacking Bush's policies, potentially millions of dead Americans.
Dems are rolling the dice, BIG TIME, that there will be no more attacks.
. . .
Posted by: whiskey at February 28, 2009 02:26 PM (L03mw)
No -- they are NOT rolling the dice BIG TIME.
If a successful terrorist attack happens the Democrats will blame GWB. An outraged MSM will also blame GWB and brand every conservative who even hints at blaming Obama as a racist, partisan fool who cares more about politics than the safety of America.
A successful terrorist attack would simply provide more reasons to deligitimize conservatives.
If there is no successful terrorist attack the Democrats can claim it's because of their policies.
It's a win -- win situation for the Democrats.
Posted by: Tinian at February 28, 2009 11:47 AM (Ohodx)
The blame for this goes squarely on the Republicans. They should have set up investigations of the politicians and staff that leaked secret information, conducted private diplomacy, and broke US laws regarding contact with foreign governments. Next time around they must do this and prosecute those government employees in those agencies that assisted the dhimmies.
This game should work both ways.
ACORN, Fannie Mae and Ginny Mac should also be prime targets.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at February 28, 2009 01:06 PM (0Qynq)
We had; Mary Marcarthy/Sandy Berger; Joe Wilson/Valery Plame; Michael Scheuer's book, the CIA planes, the foreign prisons, and of course the leak on tracking terrorists bank transactions. All of these were designed to damage the Bush administration and take the heat off the unneeded CIA. The banking leak was obviously done in hope of having another attack to really destroy Bush.
Let the democratic congressional witch hunt begin. The CIA will not be able to control its reflexes and will lash back. This time they will not be lashing back against someone as soft decent as George Bush. And by May the loans come due and the CIA leaker's main ally, the New York Times, will be in bankruptcy court.
I'm hoping for mutually assured destruction.
Posted by: snookered at February 28, 2009 02:08 PM (h3PdB)
Posted by: CoolCzech at February 28, 2009 02:40 PM (iafWn)
Posted by: '80sBaby at February 28, 2009 04:26 PM (zmiSr)
If you know the prisons exist and what is being done there and who is being held, what does it matter as far as a lawmaker where the site is?
In order to demonstrate to foreign governments that it is very dangerous to cooperate with the United States, especially during a Republican administration. This further proves that the rhetoric about "working with our allies" was complete bull. Liberal democrats have nothing but contempt for our allies. And why shouldn't they? They hate the US, how else should they feel about foreigners that voluntarily help the US?
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Thanks to WilliamA.
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