March 30, 2017

Trump: We Have to Defeat the Democrats in 2018, As Well as the Freedom Caucus
— Ace

Hoo boy.

Posted by: Ace at 09:02 AM | Comments (479)
Post contains 32 words, total size 1 kb.

1 1st.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 30, 2017 08:07 AM (yfObW)

2 Ya me.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 30, 2017 08:08 AM (yfObW)

3 grid your lions, this thread is going to be a wild one!

Posted by: Shoey at March 30, 2017 08:08 AM (OYK2S)

4 ...and people wondered why, as bad as Clinton was, I HAD to vote for Alfred E. Neuman.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at March 30, 2017 08:08 AM (QUhLG)

5 and someday I'll learn how to spell "loins", lol

Posted by: Shoey at March 30, 2017 08:08 AM (OYK2S)

6 *ahem*

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, Fuck Trump at March 30, 2017 08:09 AM (3Liv/)

7 Well, to ask the obvious.... is anyone surprised?

Posted by: colfax mingo at March 30, 2017 08:09 AM (PX+kj)

8 Trump's just playing hardball. The Freedom Caucus must have some good input. He should listen to them. Krauthammer had mentioned they never should have done this in 3 parts. Smoosh it all together and maybe they'll vote Yes.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 30, 2017 08:09 AM (0mz2+)

9 Incest is more enjoyable with cocaine and heroin.

Posted by: Zombie John Phillips at March 30, 2017 08:09 AM (nN3W/)

10 Guess Johnny Rotten wasn't kidding about Trump being anti establishment.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 30, 2017 08:09 AM (yfObW)

11 If Trump doesn't back off this war with the F.C. he will find himself with a support base too small for him to take ANY effective action.

Posted by: Shoey at March 30, 2017 08:10 AM (OYK2S)

12 And Trump will beat the Freedom Caucus. But as I said on the previous thread, I think he's just making a play for them to come to the table to get something done. And while i wouldn't count myself among those who think that Trump is playing 12th Dimensional Chess, I do think he has something up his sleeve.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 08:11 AM (7uYFy)

13 1st

Posted by: thathalfrican - at work at March 30, 2017 08:12 AM (wi4mA)

14 sorry Trump, that's not going to cut it.

We need 3 things from you, or there are going to be problems (this is analysis, not threat):
1- REPEAL oblahblahcare; hint, no RINOcare replacement
2- DRAIN THE SWAMP; by definition, Clinton and her crime ring must be prosecuted AND jailed, as a MINIMUM (throw in Comey as part of her crime ring, and you understand)
3- less talk and more action in defending this country from illegal immigrants and "refugees" and the Islamic terror they represent; this includes the arrest of public officials who obstruct the legal process.


Posted by: Grad School Fool at March 30, 2017 08:12 AM (swEzU)

15 You don't have to care about the success of the health care bill, and who knows how Trump is really angling his strategy on Obamacare collapse, but I think there are larger issues at play. It's much more likely Trump wants to knock some Congressmen loose of the Koch brothers, and make them nationalist conservatives, rather than fighting the caucus out of an antipathy to conservatism.

Posted by: trev006 at March 30, 2017 08:15 AM (BupQ9)

16 I just can't even.

Posted by: Lord Chancellor johnd01 at March 30, 2017 08:34 AM (ukNFU)

17 In D.C., swamp drain you ...

Posted by: ShainS at March 30, 2017 08:56 AM (yvMV9)

18 Remember when I said I'd kill you last? I lied.

Posted by: Gaff at March 30, 2017 08:57 AM (jPS2y)

19 We live in very interesting times, unfortunately.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at March 30, 2017 08:58 AM (KUaJL)

20 A repeal will not pass either house. Sheesh.

Posted by: Eskimo at March 30, 2017 08:58 AM (ZYNmu)

21 So, PDT said that Obamacare was a disaster and yet he wants to work with the party that created it to "replace" it? What the actual fuck, PDT? What the actual fuck?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 30, 2017 08:58 AM (mbhDw)

22 Which is it: they need to "get on the team", or "We must fight them, & Dems"? Both in the same tweet. He's doing a great job of getting them "on the team."

Posted by: redsweater at March 30, 2017 08:58 AM (uNXrh)

23 Hard negotiation tactics. He's going to get some weak members of freedom caucus to fold in his favor. People who are shocked have neither read Trump's books, nor negotiate with lawyers for a living.

Posted by: wooga at March 30, 2017 08:58 AM (2tOuu)

24 From the old thread: What the fuck is a Kamala anyway? Well you could google quranicbabynames and search it there . . .Posted by: simplemind at March 30, 2017 01:55 PM (xVRrG) It's the drug that the President in Battlestar Galactica used that made her hallucinate.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at March 30, 2017 08:59 AM (KUaJL)

25 Do I send my money directly to the Koch bros. or send them a letter of encouragement and the money directly to the Freedom Caucus.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 08:59 AM (e3JIL)

26 Unlike no other Presidential incumbent in a long time, Trump would rather do more in a first term rather than care about getting re-elected for a second (if he kicks ass in his first term, he knows he'll get re-elected. If not, he thinks he should get fired). Trump is already doing all he can with the powers of the Presidency. The issue is what happens to his agenda in Congress. The Ds are bent on obstructing Trump in the hopes of making him a one-termer. In the Senate, the Ds have the filibuster. In the House, the Ds have the FC being Purists. Thus, in a search for Perfection, the FC may be an enemy of the Good. The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 09:00 AM (SIY7D)

27 Shit status: real.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 30, 2017 09:00 AM (2pucm)

28 So, who do we use to primary Trump in 2020?

Is Cruz up for another go?

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 09:01 AM (3Liv/)

29 It was only a matter of time--70 days--for the pro-Cruz, reluctant Trump voters to say, see! Told ya so! Trump sucks! And use f-bombs while doing so. Time for me to take a break from AoSHQ for a while, and remember that HRCWNBP.

Posted by: squeakywheel at March 30, 2017 09:01 AM (dzorZ)

30 12 And Trump will beat the Freedom Caucus. But as I said on the previous thread, I think he's just making a play for them to come to the table to get something done. And while i wouldn't count myself among those who think that Trump is playing 12th Dimensional Chess, I do think he has something up his sleeve. Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 01:11 PM (7uYFy) ================ Yeah, I think this, too. I wouldn't consider it a serious threat, especially since Mark Meadows got that standing ovation for "killing" the AHCA.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:01 AM (ELUpj)

31 He is sure going about it the wrong way pissing off the people who voted him in in the first place.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at March 30, 2017 09:02 AM (mpXpK)

32 The founder of the Freedom Caucus, Rep. from AZ, was on Fox this morning, and said he was a Yes vote on the original Ryan bill. He said he was from the west, and is more of a libertarian conservative, and he understands that conservatives from other parts of the country represent districts in which their constituents have a differing view of conservatism. The Freedom Caucus is split amongst it's members(remember Poe left the caucus over it's members no vote, said they would vote no on the ten commandments) and Trump knows this. This is called leverage. He's trying to help "convince" those who are still a no to try to work something into the bill to vote yes on.

Posted by: Jen at March 30, 2017 09:02 AM (m8stq)

33 Ed Driscoll just got an Itoldyouso boner. Not so fast ed. Hillary is still a cunt.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at March 30, 2017 09:02 AM (nFwvY)

34 We all knew in the voting booth that Trump's political ideology was a mile wide and an inch deep. The alternative was a woman whose political ideology was all too clear.

Posted by: TB at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (wNx6K)

35 31 He is sure going about it the wrong way pissing off the people who voted him in in the first place. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 30, 2017 02:02 PM (mpXpK) ================ I'm going to reserve judgment about the wisdom of this until details of the revamped AHCA get released.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (ELUpj)

36 did the freedom caucus offer an alternative ? (not following this back and forth too much, so..)

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (c6/9Q)

37 ..and people wondered why, as bad as Clinton was, I HAD to vote for Alfred E. Neuman. Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at March 30, 2017 01:08 PM (QUhLG) Wow. What principle. You voted for Hillary.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (8ZskC)

38 If you embarrass the president, speaker and a majority of the Republican caucus, not to mention yourself on the first major legislative act, one you've been passing bills on for 7 years, in Washington you can expect someone's balls to be banging on your chin.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (9IM0p)

39 Gee, if only someone had warned us during the primaries that Trump was a Big Government New York liberal and not an actual conservative.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (O7MnT)

40 34 We all knew in the voting booth that Trump's political ideology was a mile wide and an inch deep. The alternative was a woman whose political ideology was all too clear. Posted by: TB at March 30, 2017 02:03 PM (wNx6K) ================= Hey, who wants to fight the primary all over again?!?!? Could be fun.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:03 AM (ELUpj)

41 Trump is like living with a pet tiger. Of course he is tame and your friend. right up until you wake up one morning and he's eating you

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (FZYNt)

42 So, PDT said that Obamacare was a disaster and yet he wants to work with the party that created it to "replace" it?

What the actual fuck, PDT? What the actual fuck?
---
Someone taught him to think like a republican.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (3Liv/)

43 This is not a smart move, wtf does Trump this his base is?

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (U+nHb)

44 If this isn't 8 dimensional Vulcan chess to scuttle Ryan, then he's dead to me.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (nN3W/)

45 Think not this...damn it

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (U+nHb)

46 and someday I'll learn how to spell "loins", lol Posted by: Shoey And "gird"

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (4Utw1)

47 Charge of the GOPe

"Aim low boys! They riding Corgis!"

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 30, 2017 09:04 AM (k4Ari)

48 Instead of a Freedom Caucus, we need to promote the usage of caulk in butt implants. That's right! We need a kickass Caulk-ass Caucus.

Posted by: Kim Kardashian at March 30, 2017 09:05 AM (W8bn5)

49 Trump: We Have to Defeat the Democrats in 2018, As Well as the Freedom Caucus Meh. Trump isn't going to be able to affect any of the Freedom Caucus runs in 2018. Trump is just dead wrong on this. For their part the Freedom Caucus needs to understand that, while I am glad they stood firm against the BarkyCare chair-shuffling, they are the ones (not all but most) who folded like cheap suits and helped elect the lowlife POS Ryan to the Speakership, which is really what led to this phenomenally asinine attempt to save BarkyCare and call it a "repeal".

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 30, 2017 09:05 AM (zc3Db)

50 *peers into thread from under desk*

Posted by: rickl at March 30, 2017 09:05 AM (zoehZ)

51 I can't take sides here. I have yet to see a clear explanation of what RynoCare would have done to ObamaCare, and what strategic factors drove the choices represented by RynoCare. So, I got nuthin'

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 30, 2017 09:05 AM (8ZskC)

52 >>But as I said on the previous thread, I think he's just making a play for them to come to the table to get something done. And while i wouldn't count myself among those who think that Trump is playing 12th Dimensional Chess, I do think he has something up his sleeve. I don't think its 12th dimensional chess, it's just hard nosed bargaining Trump style. Democrats used the Cornhusker Kickback and the New Louisiana Purchase, Trump uses twitter to bludgeon people. Cheaper this way.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:05 AM (/tuJf)

53 Thus, in a search for Perfection, the FC may be an enemy of the Good.
----
The only Good in Ryancare was transferring responsibility for the obamacare collapse to the GOP.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 09:05 AM (3Liv/)

54 Concern status:

[  ] Concerned
[X] Not much

Let it fail. A spectacular failure that resets the market.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum [i] at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (ZFUt7)

55 I give politicians a year after election before asking for a rope. Check back with me February 2018.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (FtrY1)

56 26  Thus, in a search for Perfection, the FC may be an enemy of the Good.

The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 02:00 PM (SIY7D)


I get tired of hearing that shit.  What they offered conservatives was Democrat lite.  There was no "pure" to it unless it was pure liberal crap. 



There was no "compromise" or any attempt at all to answer concerns of the conservatives so they shit on it as they should have. 



Republocrats promised "repeal" so repeal already.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (mpXpK)

57 Yes, I know Trump's no conservative. Yes, I know he's better than Scankles. Yes, I know I can't always get what I want. But really, Donald? Not even 100 days? I've had relationships last longer than this.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (X6fMO)

58 It had to be done. The FU Caucus is already talking up how they are going to use their new found power to hold up tax reform. That can't stand it nothing will get done. Thank them for any watering down that's done to attract more votes.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (9IM0p)

59 The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. This made me smile and nod my head.

Posted by: Max Power at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (q177U)

60 All politicians lie, believe me.

Posted by: A Politician at March 30, 2017 09:06 AM (QtQaN)

61 Is the Washington Fog Machine deliberately spewing the political games to distract us from the fact that the RynoCare Bill was a piece of shit only 17% of the public approved of?

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (O7MnT)

62 So, PDT said that Obamacare was a disaster and yet he wants to work with the party that created it to "replace" it? What the actual fuck, PDT? What the actual fuck? ................... Agreed. Trump is willing to do an even bigger entitlement than Obamacare was as long as he can get a "win". Good thing for all involved, the Dems want no part of working with Trump.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (so+oy)

63 The FC wing is going to grow the more Trump courts the Dems. They owe us a real shot at repeal. Like an actual effort. We got how many umpty dozen of those out if the House before? Leave the Senate to the base Trump. If we know there is an actual repeal bill that passed the house there will be motorcycle rallies inside the damn rotunda until the Senate passes one too. Let's see a real filibuster on the part of the Dems. Let the Senate have an actual fist fight for once.

Posted by: TexasDan [/I] at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (C3qTd)

64 Are you sure this isn't a time for a colorful metaphor?

Posted by: Mr. Spock at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (7HtZB)

65 Egg McMuffin, "Someone say Griddles?"

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (k4Ari)

66 The art of politics is to persuade the wrong person to do the right thing.

Posted by: navybrat at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (rnOcr)

67 Miss me yet?

Posted by: Egg McMuffin at March 30, 2017 09:07 AM (IqV8l)

68 Bad move Trump, you dance with the one that brought you. FC supported him, not Ryan, so this, IMO, is a stupid thing to do, he needs every bit of support that he got from the conservatives, and he just shit on them, I hope they tell him to pound sand.

Posted by: spypeach at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (u/r83)

69 The FU Caucus is already talking up how they are going to use their new found power to hold up tax reform. That can't stand it nothing will get done. So, you would rather a shitty bill got passed... because it "gets something done?"

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (O7MnT)

70 The only Good in Ryancare was transferring responsibility for the obamacare collapse to the GOP. Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 02:05 PM (3Liv/) THIS. Instead of attacking the FC, Trump should stick with his line of attack after it failed. Pelosi, Schumer and the Dems fully own Obamacare. When it collapses it's all on them. Pound that point home and all of the costs that go up because of it too

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (493sH)

71 It was only a matter of time--70 days--for the pro-Cruz, reluctant Trump voters to say, see! Told ya so! Trump sucks!

And use f-bombs while doing so.
---
Uh, not a reluctant Trump voter here. Maybe not the loudest supporter he had here (prescient and phone of kari both have me beat there), but among the loudest.

And I was clearly wrong about his potential to deal with Ryan and McConnell. Or his intentions overall.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (3Liv/)

72 Not sure if this is Trump being a smart negotiator by putting pressure on the FC or if he is just saying fuck you. Really need to read the art of the deal to get a better sense of how Trump does things. Anyone know if the book is a good read or a terrible piece of shit?

Posted by: Drew in MO at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (cGlgB)

73 I'm going to save my anger for the utterly psychotic liberals, at least for the moment. This could be just a negotiating ploy by Trump, which I wouldn't mind too much. Of course, thinking about how RINOs never get this sort of verbal treatment gets the blood pressure rising. As has been mentioned earlier, let's see what the second version of the healthcare bill looks like before making any definitive declarations.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (72PAC)

74 I agree with Trump and believe anything called a "caucus" needs to be defeated. Start with Iowa and keep going until Congressional Black.

Posted by: Roy at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (7n4KQ)

75 My ox is flummed. But if PDT can at least keep the country from importing another 10 Million undocumented Democrat-Socialists in the next term then on balance we still dodged a bullet.

Posted by: xnycpeasant at March 30, 2017 09:08 AM (QtQaN)

76 Please allow me to refresh your recollection of my conversation with our esteemed CNN colleagues post-election:

"The only way we're going to work with him is if he moves completely in our direction and abandons his Republican colleagues. 90-95 percent of the time we'll be holding his feet to the fire and holding him accountable."

"But we're Democrats. We're not just going to oppose things to oppose them."

Posted by: Charles "Fanhitter" Schumer[/i] at March 30, 2017 09:09 AM (DMUuz)

77 Republocrats promised "repeal" so repeal already. And one guy JUST sent up a one line repeal bill this morning. And it's going to go No. Where. And that's Trump's fault?

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:09 AM (4Utw1)

78 Yeah...I don't know.
Here's hoping he was just blowing off some steam.

Posted by: Lizzy[/i] at March 30, 2017 09:09 AM (NOIQH)

79 I'm a supporter of the FC so where does that leave me with Trump? Eff the whole world of politics and the asswipes who pretend to give a shit about us to get elected.

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:09 AM (U+nHb)

80 The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand. **checks thread** Not even 30 comments before the first "you rubes don't understand how DC works" post. Impressive. I'm out. You can all fight this among yourselves. I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at March 30, 2017 09:09 AM (X6fMO)

81 that one line repeal bill - that's the ticket !

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (c6/9Q)

82 Interesting Times ...Indeed!

Posted by: Paladin at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (YNPwP)

83 His moderate republican and Democrat (BIRM) buddies are going to f-ck him over on Immigration and the wall. See what he says after that?

Posted by: rd at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (iT57s)

84 Heretical thoughts of the moment: I'm fine with Trump doing this because it's about damn time that these intercene fights were had in the open, not behind closed doors. I mean, look, I think Trump's in the wrong camp here but at least he's setting out a position, even if it's an idiotic one. Let's get this knife fight started. Also, I'm a firm believer in every politician getting primaried in every race every time so it's not like that's going to bother me. Look, if we as conservatives are so damn convinced that our ideas are better and will win when we fight for them, then we better get busy with the fighting part of it. Furthermore, this is a pretty obvious negotiating ploy. Lastly, the best Lara Croft is Tomb Rader Legend.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (mf5HN)

85 Let the Senate have an actual fist fight for once. Posted by: TexasDan at March 30, 2017 02:07 PM (C3qTd) Miss Lindsey: I can slap and pull hair

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (493sH)

86 Seriously, I love how this obvious ploy by Trump- which means not a damn fucking thing today and is clearly a negotiation tactic - causes an explosion of "Fuck Trump!1!!" and "I knew it!!" within the first 50 comments....

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (jjaLl)

87 I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing is that on VHS or Beta?

Posted by: Rick in SK at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (FZYNt)

88 So, you would rather a shitty bill got passed... because it "gets something done?" That's how we GOT 404Care.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:10 AM (4Utw1)

89 1890s Pron?

Are there going to be any stays in these bodice rippers?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (k4Ari)

90 That was a garbage bill, Trump just doesn't like the perception that he failed, he doesn't care at all about the substance of it. I hope they hold up his pork-barrel highway bill too, we need more obstructionists in Congress not less. Primarying people who oppose big spending nonsense is what Boehner used to do, and get criticized for by people like Bannon.

Posted by: Cjw at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (x2VC9)

91 My lions hate it when I gird them.And I mean hate it!!!

Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (nQHw/)

92 The orange vulgarian was asked: "PDT - What is best in life?" Cuushing enemies driving around and grabbing pussies.

Posted by: Fox at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (DVC2D)

93 Republocrats promised "repeal" so repeal already. Oh Vic. Let me explain to you the beautiful intricacy and profound complexity of the mystical, magical thing we call The Process. The Process is divine stuff, reserved for the likes of Nick Saban and Paul Ryan. The Process is not for you and me. Do not question The Process.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (tFWWx)

94 Not a huge Trump fan but I see people complaining about Ryan and McConnell and their business as usual GOPe ways. You have to understand the leader ship is the GOPe and if Trump wants to get anything done he has to try to work with them. As much as we would like him to tell them to go fuck themselves, he has to be more subtle about things but I am sure he realizes they aren't his friends.

Posted by: Drew in MO at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (cGlgB)

95 >>I get tired of hearing that shit. What they offered conservatives was Democrat lite. There was no "pure" to it unless it was pure liberal crap. No more than I get tired of hearing this crap. Most people have no idea what the bill does or doesn't do and how it affects subsequent agenda items like tax reform but they are experts that only RINOs support the process. RINOs like Ted Poe and Mick Mulvaney who helped found the Freedom Caucus. Since when did the Freedom Caucus become the sole arbiters of what is and isn't good or smart policy? They are just a bunch of politicians with their own agenda and they have whipped their supporters into such a frenzy with uncompromising positions that as a poster here says, they will be tarred and feathered if they don't do a full repeal with zero compromises. Problem is that's not how legislation or even a democracy works, particularly when you are a relatively small minority that can block legislation but can't get what you want without compromise.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (/tuJf)

96 The FU Caucus is already talking up how they are going to use their new found power to hold up tax reform. To be perfectly honest, tax reform is way down my list on what needs to be fixed in Washington right at this moment. There are just so many other things that are far more important to get done - and get done in a way that the dems can't just simply undo them.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 30, 2017 09:11 AM (zc3Db)

97 Where's the art of the deal in this?  Where's my tax break?

I'll give you three cat's eyes for a steely.

Posted by: Fritz at March 30, 2017 09:12 AM (2Mnv1)

98 I'm going to see how this pans out before I start dissing anyone. For all we know the FC and Trump might be practicing the art of the deal in the political realm. There may not be as much animosity between the two factions as the media is wanting us to believe. For the media (and,yes, I'm including blogs) may be making more of this than what it actually is. Like I said, I'm just going to wait around a bit to see what stands after the dust settles.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 09:12 AM (Fmupd)

99 Lion Status:
[X] Gridded
[ ] Not Gridded
Posted by: Roland THTG at March 30, 2017 02:07 PM


Thank you for your contribution to our electrical distribution system!

Posted by: The Grid at March 30, 2017 09:12 AM (DMUuz)

100 Agreed. Trump is willing to do an even bigger entitlement than Obamacare was as long as he can get a "win".
The key word in that sentence is "win". Trump is a wheeler-dealer. We all knew that. So, the Freedom Caucus should put on their big boy suits, go meet with The Donald, and see what *they* can win, what they can accomplish. Obamunistcare is disgusting and loathed. Trump knows that. But he also knows that "Repeal and Replace" means replace it with something better and something else, as the status quo ante of 3rd party moral hazard wasn't working either. The Obamunists made that *worse*, in the hope they could get people so mad or frustrated they would settle for single payer socialism. The Freedom Caucus *could be* the winners here too. Tweets are forgotten soon afterwards.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:12 AM (ujg0T)

101 My lions hate it when I gird them.And I mean hate it!!! Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at March 30, 2017 02:11 PM ~~~~~ Bet they hate it when you grid them too.

Posted by: IrishEi at March 30, 2017 09:12 AM (HiDrR)

102 If Rynocare didn't repeal Obamacare, why should we trust Rynotax to reform the tax code? I expect it will turn out to be a piñata full of candy for the Chamber of Commerce while leaving 99.9% of the tax code untouched.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:12 AM (O7MnT)

103 The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand. Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 02:00 PM (SIY7D) Democrats to their base: We know that you want X, but we can only give you 1/2 x right now. We'll get the rest later. Republicans to their base: The democrats want X, so we're only going to give them 1/2 x right now and let them get the rest later. I'm done. If the Republican position is "whatever the democratic position is, just wait 10ish years" then they're useless to me. It's not a compromise when I don't get anything in return, and the ratchet only ever turns one way, it seems.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (KUaJL)

104 Also, I'm a firm believer in every politician getting primaried in every race every time so it's not like that's going to bother me. As I said yesterday, Ted Cruz better take an SC job if offered. Because I'm voting anti-incumbent on every vote next time.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (4Utw1)

105 The founder of the Freedom Caucus, Rep. from AZ, was on Fox this morning, and said he was a Yes vote on the original Ryan bill. He said he was from the west, and is more of a libertarian conservative ... Posted by: Jen at March 30, 2017 02:02 PM (m8stq) HHS. There was nothing libertarian about the Ryan Bill.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (e3JIL)

106 78  And one guy JUST sent up a one line repeal bill this morning.

And it's going to go No. Where.

And that's Trump's fault?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:09 PM (4Utw1)


No but we get a bunch of RINO names to primary.  Make them vote for repeal or own it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (mpXpK)

107 Verily MP4, verily.

Posted by: Chupacabra[/i][/b] at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (UUSGT)

108 Is the Washington Fog Machine deliberately spewing the political games to distract us from the fact that the RynoCare Bill was a piece of shit only 17% of the public approved of?
---
The establishment and their mouthpieces do seem pretty desperate to obfuscate the fact that their Renege and Rename bill has even less legitimacy than obamacare did.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (3Liv/)

109 Negotiation with multiple parties. You often target the party that is most likely to have a reason to move and or is talking to you. Regardless of whether or not they are the issue. At least you have something to work with/on. Those who won't move at all, ever, or even talk to you, are a waste of resources.

Posted by: china at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (C6xeQ)

110 How about keeping the guns aimed at Democrats, Trump.

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:13 AM (U+nHb)

111 And this is one of the times I knew Trump was going to piss me off.

Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at March 30, 2017 09:14 AM (nQHw/)

112 I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing is that on VHS or Beta? Posted by: Rick in SK Tintype.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:14 AM (4Utw1)

113 Sullen GOP detainees in the TrumpCamps will be distinguishable from the common liberals by the spoons that are issued with their gruel.

Posted by: General Zod at March 30, 2017 09:14 AM (Bdeb0)

114 Is this the beginning of the end?

Posted by: katya the designated driver at March 30, 2017 09:14 AM (xunFe)

115 What's the NYT's story that has the White House press corps in a tizzy?

Posted by: WisRich at March 30, 2017 09:14 AM (hdpay)

116 I do not deny myself the company of Republicans. But I do deny them my vote. OPE?EOP?OEP?POE? Yeah, I'll go with purity of essence. Peace on earth is right out.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 30, 2017 09:14 AM (FtrY1)

117 better yet, just submit a bill says "Repeal!"; everyone will understand what it's all about and o-care will be gone right there and then

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (c6/9Q)

118 58 It had to be done. The FU Caucus is already talking up how they are going to use their new found power to hold up tax reform. That can't stand it nothing will get done. Thank them for any watering down that's done to attract more votes. Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 02:06 PM (9IM0p) ================= This really sounds like "We have to do SOMETHING!" Rather than, "We have to do the right thing." I'm suspicious of the former.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (ELUpj)

119 @102 Goes with out saying.

Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (nQHw/)

120 I see a lot of knickers being twisted as people run around waving hands screaming the sky is falling. Again.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (k4Ari)

121 "So, you would rather a shitty bill got passed... because it "gets something" I'm getting a little sick of this type of sophism from people who don't understand how legislating works. It's not my way or the highway and hasn't been since 1789. You stake out positions and must haves. You ensure the must haves and get as much as you can of other things. "This bill is perfect and everything I wanted", said nobody ever in Congress. I understand we've taken it up the squeakhole in many negotiations because we've had weak ass leadership. But that doesn't mean every negotiation is "weak" or a "failure" because you didn't plow the opposition into a fucking snow bank. These people are assholes because they wanted 100% of their demands met. Then they are emboldened because they kill one bill and start talking shit about how they're going to kill a bunch of others. Are you kidding? I would make them kiss my ass on the White House lawn.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (9IM0p)

122 >>Is the Washington Fog Machine deliberately spewing the political games to distract us from the fact that the RynoCare Bill was a piece of shit only 17% of the public approved of? A majority of Americans don't want Obamacare repealed at all. So what? When did we start caring about polls again?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (/tuJf)

123 For some reason he doesnt go on the twitter war path with moderates who object to his supposedly much-desired wall.

Posted by: Nurse Ratched at March 30, 2017 09:15 AM (oQIG9)

124 29 It was only a matter of time--70 days--for the pro-Cruz, reluctant Trump voters to say, see! Told ya so! Trump sucks! And use f-bombs while doing so. Time for me to take a break from AoSHQ for a while, and remember that HRCWNBP. Posted by: squeakywheel at March 30, 2017 02:01 PM (dzorZ) You're imagining things because you want to play the victim. Some of the strongest supporters of Trump's battle with the FC are former Cruz supporters.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 09:16 AM (HJbDF)

125 Most people have no idea what the bill does or doesn't do IMHO, that's all the more reason to oppose it. If the bill doesn't clearly spell out both a goal/end state and a means to get there, it's shit. Since when did the Freedom Caucus become the sole arbiters of what is and isn't good or smart policy? Total Straw Man. No one is claiming that. But we do know they are more likely to be honest about stuff than the GOP-E is because the GOP-E has lied constantly.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:16 AM (O7MnT)

126 94  The Process is divine stuff, reserved for the likes of Nick Saban and Paul Ryan. The Process is not for you and me.

Do not question The Process.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 02:11 PM (tFWWx)


What we need is the return of the silver headed gutta-purcha cane for the process.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at March 30, 2017 09:16 AM (mpXpK)

127 I saw Grid Lions open for The Crash Test Dummies in 1996.

Posted by: Moron Pundit at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (xeeHA)

128 Looking forward to seeing a lion grid in the next Bond movie.

Posted by: Slo-Pitch Whiffer at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (5JlYa)

129 The FC isn't the enemy of the good. The bill wasn't good. It didn't even rate a "fair." It was a turd in the punch bowl. Trump should've simply said, "I'm not supporting this dreck, do better." He really fucked up his first chance.

Posted by: Jason M at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (S1+dw)

130 13 I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself. Posted by: Mary P Lol. Reading pr0n.

Posted by: Lord Sir x at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (nFwvY)

131 64 The FC wing is going to grow the more Trump courts the Dems.
He hasn't done that yet, and I bet he never will, given their petulance. Rynocare went down. Draft one failed. So, back to the drawing board for Draft Two. And Draft Two will be a Step One. So much needs reforming. Above all an insurance system that goes beyond the Major Financial Catastrophe that Insurance was designed for. Routine care paid by it leads to 3rd party moral hazard. And NO Demunist, save a Manchin Maverick, will pass whatever the Freedom Caucus works out. The Boll Weevils, Blue Dogs, and Cowboy Democrats are almost extinct. Almost all that is left are communists. So, the GOP, to override, is going to have to get together. Which means (1) Establicans need to get slapped around and (2) FC people will have to be realistic.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (ujg0T)

132 I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing


If it could, would it be autoerotic?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (p+Wdc)

133 Jean-Claude Juncker, esteemed El Presidente of the EU Commission, said that he will now push for Ohio and Texas to split from the rest of the U.S.

Yea, TEXIT!

But now I read the exact quote: "If he goes on like that I am going to promote the independence of Ohio and Austin, Texas in the U.S."

Ok, that's not full Texas Independence, but still ... #winning!

Posted by: Duncanthrax[/i] at March 30, 2017 09:17 AM (DMUuz)

134 Ignoramus: "The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand." Wrong. Completely wrong - well, I won't address the generalization about commenters here, since surely you've captured some existing category there. It's not about "compromise", or "purism" - and really, those are markers for observers who don't understand, or perhaps care, about substance and results. I don't know every detail of the process, but it appears that it was handled very poorly. As far as coordination. Or even a "closed rule" on the bill - meaning, in the House, no votes on floor amendments. But THAT's not the key point, either. When a reconciliation bill does not cleanly repeal the reconciliation-passed elements of O-care, but instead creates its own Rube Goldberg addition to use the tax system for one more govt.-directed bit of social engineering, there is an understandable lack of faith in the phased process. Most here don't know much about how the Hill works. Those who do know that a highly credible, politically savvy, substantively acceptable approach was obvious and doable: clean reconciliation repeal of reconciliation-based elements, near-simultaneous House passage of the other key things (especially "essential benefits" requirements) that were not germane to a reconciliation bill, ALONG with Price's assurance that he would be moving, within a short specific time-line to administratively provide relief. A phased process, but one that put everyone on the line, immediately, for actually repairing the worst of the damage. To avoid muddying the waters with Medicaid, fine, separate it out, don't even address it - put all of that in a separate, free-standing bill. So no, Ignoramus, some of us here actually worked in Congress for years, still know many people who are now members, not just staffers, and don't rely on these cartoonish concepts of "purist" and "establishment" to understand a situation. And to toss in a dubious yet obviously valid ad hominem element, as shibumi noted in an earlier thread, it's pretty clear that those who are so blase about the ravages of O-care actually being addressed (after 7 years of political backlash to see that they are addressed) have little skin in the game. Millions and millions have no insurance for the first time in their lives, or have been financially body-slammed by continuing to buy "insurance" after 500% premium increases. Most - and probably 100% of people here who are so blase about any realistic, serious action to provide relief - have faced comparatively trivial premium increases, though in some cases also some serious network/provider impact. Observers who understand the O-care disaster in a substantive way, and who understand legislative process first-hand, have solid reasons to find the House GOP's (and even the WH's) performance here completely non-credible.

Posted by: rhomboid at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (+wjl1)

135 Oh, and I might add that Hillary Clinton is not the President of the United States. This shit could be much much worse.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (Fmupd)

136 88 I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing is that on VHS or Beta? Posted by: Rick in SK at March 30, 2017 02:10 PM (FZYNt) Edison wax cylinder

Posted by: josephistan at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (7HtZB)

137 These people are assholes because they wanted 100% of their demands met. Not. True. Another Straw Man. But did they want a bill that actual repealed Obamacare, which Rynocare didn't do. It left the worst parts of the law ... the mandates ... in place, and actually expanded the subsidies... while doing nothing ... *NOTHING* ... that would have lowered premiums.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (O7MnT)

138 It seems to me that we all need a win together, to prime the pump. Sounds like a good opportunity to push the hearing protection bill through.

Posted by: Chupacabra[/i][/b] at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (UUSGT)

139 If it could, would it be autoerotic?
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 30, 2017 02:17 PM


Technically, only if it has that thingie that goes up.

Posted by: Duncanthrax[/i] at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (DMUuz)

140 Let me explain to you the beautiful intricacy and profound complexity of the mystical, magical thing we call The Process. The Process is divine stuff, reserved for the likes of Nick Saban and Paul Ryan. The Process is not for you and me. Do not question The Process. Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 02:11 PM (tFWWx) You really gonna lump me with the assclowns in DC? You really wanna feel like other SEC QB's come sunday morning?

Posted by: Nick Saban at March 30, 2017 09:18 AM (72PAC)

141 Since when did the Freedom Caucus become the sole arbiters of what is and isn't good or smart policy? Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 02:11 PM (/tuJf) When they were the only ones on the right side of this fantastically pathetic BarkyCare chair-shuffling bill. You would think that a smart policy wonk would have known, from the beginning, that the FC wasn't going to support this un-Constitutional shit-sandwich.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (zc3Db)

142 It's all gonna' be okay after I win in 2020...

Posted by: Chelsey Clinton at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (HSmrB)

143 I'll briefly revoice something I said the other day about the failed "repeal-and-replace" of Obamacare:

It's instructive, when considering the swamp of the D.C. Beltway, to ask the question about which particular swamp puddle a legislative concept had originally crawled from, dripping and reeking.

In the case of "repeal and replace", it was a hastily scrawled freehand talking point from a young PR flack working in Mitch McConnell's shop. Someone who later went on to handle flackery for the subsidy queens, crony capitalists and amnesty apologists over at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

There were no actual details or policy specifics wrapped around "repeal and replace". It was just a couple of words that rolled off their tongues smoothly and which presumably tested well in focus groups.

So right there you have the tell. "Repeal and replace" was, from the get-go, yet another Punch and Judy show to distract the slack-jawed rubes in the cheap seats. The GOP insider elite never regarded it with any seriousness nor did they invest it with any effort.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (noWW6)

144 The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand. Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 02:00 PM (SIY7D) Huh? It works pretty flippin' good for the Dems.

Posted by: Cicero Boom chicka boom Kaboom! Kid at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (CE3NN)

145 And Tom Cotton "we don't need to do it fast, we need to do it right". Where the fuck has he been for seven years while those "repeal and replace" bills were being passed- Antarctic ? The guy who wrote most of the new bill with the Republican caucus is now the freaking head of HHS. PleAse give me a break.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (9IM0p)

146 73 Not sure if this is Trump being a smart negotiator by putting pressure on the FC or if he is just saying fuck you. Really need to read the art of the deal to get a better sense of how Trump does things. Anyone know if the book is a good read or a terrible piece of shit? Posted by: Drew in MO at March 30, 2017 02:08 PM (cGlgB)
Reading it now, and YES, this is Art Of The Deal.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (ujg0T)

147 Everyone needs to breath, I am pretty sure this is a negotiation tactic with Trump.

Posted by: Drew in MO at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (cGlgB)

148 Trump said he would repeal it then replace it. If Trump is a man of his word he will first repeal it then work to replace it.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (e3JIL)

149 I think guys like Amash sometimes don't see the forest for the trees - which is a problem with lots of libertarians, both small l and big L - but yeah, he's not the problem. The establishment guys are the problem. It's not that the Freedom Caucus is above reproach, but they're so far down the list of issues you need the Hubble Telescope to see them.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (oZ6kz)

150 >>IMHO, that's all the more reason to oppose it. If the bill doesn't clearly spell out both a goal/end state and a means to get there, it's shit. It was posted online 2 weeks ago. Read it. >>Total Straw Man. No one is claiming that. But we do know they are more likely to be honest about stuff than the GOP-E is because the GOP-E has lied constantly. Bullshit. Why do you think Trump is singling them out? Why does every person here who doesn't support the House bill cite them? When they stop then you can claim it's a straw man. Until then the FC is the central opposition to getting something done.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (/tuJf)

151 Mike Huckabee alluded to the fact that Mx. Lindsey Graham is the ghey. At least we have that.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 09:19 AM (nN3W/)

152 Is this the thread about girls who follow Lyon FC?

Posted by: hogmartin at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (8nWyX)

153 political hacks lied to us. again. did anybody really believe shit would change? the only good out of all this is cankles is drunk in a woods somewhere. if you wanted really fucked up changes, you should have voted for her. as long as ryan, schumer, mclame, mcconnel, and miss lindsey and the assholes in both houses are there, this is the shit we have. these guys should have been out on their asses a long time ago. they aint.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (NnhWY)

154 Jean-Claude Juncker, esteemed El Presidente of the EU Commission, said that he will now push for Ohio and Texas to split from the rest of the U.S.


===============

Are you there , Vodka ? This is me, Junker ! 

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (c6/9Q)

155 It's the Politician's Fallacy: 1) We must do something 2) This is something 3) Therefore, we must do this Pathetic.

Posted by: Jason M at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (S1+dw)

156 FC supported him, not Ryan, so this, IMO, is a stupid thing to do, he needs every bit of support that he got from the conservatives, and he just shit on them, I hope they tell him to pound sand. Posted by: spypeach at March 30, 2017 02:08 PM (u/r83) Most of the Freedom Caucus members did not support Trump until after he was nominated and then only a handful actively supported him. Justin Amash, is a Univ. of Michigan Law grad with a Palestinian father and opposed Trump's EO on travel bans for terrorist infiltrated countires. He supported Ron Paul for president in 2012, and refused to support Trump after he was nominated. He is one example of a number of FC members who are never Trumpers.

Posted by: Jen at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (m8stq)

157 "Look, if we as conservatives are so damn convinced that our ideas are better and will win when we fight for them, then we better get busy with the fighting part of it. Furthermore, this is a pretty obvious negotiating ploy. Lastly, the best Lara Croft is Tomb Rader Legend. Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 02:10 PM (mf5HN)" "Better" or "more electorally viable"? 80% of this country is brain dead.

Posted by: West Town at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (Y3C5w)

158 Anyway he's still in his first 100 days and he's a political neophyte so he's allowed a few own goals - I'm not going to panic and say "See, this is why we needed Ted Cruz!" and re-fight the Primary Wars.

Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at March 30, 2017 09:20 AM (oZ6kz)

159 But did they want a bill that actual repealed Obamacare, which Rynocare didn't do. Can I take a moment of your time to talk about a bill the House and Senate DID pass in 2016 that Paul Ryan called repeal ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 09:21 AM (tFWWx)

160 "...As Well as the Freedom Caucus" Big mistake. If you want the swamp drained, you actually need to have a hardcore base of swamp drainers. Going after them is a proxy for going after all the voting demographics who still view DC as a swamp. Trump must gravitate to the reformers rather than take everything as a personal affront if they insist on representing their rather large constituencies. This is not a cult of personality.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 30, 2017 09:21 AM (1CroS)

161 These people are assholes because they wanted 100% of their demands met. Then they are emboldened because they kill one bill and start talking shit about how they're going to kill a bunch of others. Are you kidding? I would make them kiss my ass on the White House lawn. Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 02:15 PM (9IM0p) Give me one good thing about this bill. Just one. I've never heard anything about its benefits from from its supporters other than "it's not obamacare."

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at March 30, 2017 09:21 AM (KUaJL)

162 But now I read the exact quote: "If he goes on like that I am going to promote the independence of Ohio and Austin, Texas in the U.S." Would love to see Austin Exit. We could roll in and conquer on our way home from work and expel all liberals to New Mexico.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:21 AM (4Utw1)

163 JackStraw, how many times does it have to be said, getting something done that is shit, doesn't help lower my premiums.

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:21 AM (U+nHb)

164 Not even going to pretend I have a clue what's going on here.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at March 30, 2017 09:21 AM (9krrF)

165 If you straight up repeal obamacare it is replaced

Posted by: Lord Sir x at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (nFwvY)

166 "Anyway he's still in his first 100 days and he's a political neophyte so he's allowed a few own goals - I'm not going to panic and say "See, this is why we needed Ted Cruz!" and re-fight the Primary Wars." -Posted by: broseidon being a capitalist pigdog (yknow, working) at March 30, 2017 02:20 PM I'll buy this and I'll offer you One Dollar.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (6gk0M)

167 148 Everyone needs to breath, I am pretty sure this is a negotiation tactic with Trump. Posted by: Drew in MO at March 30, 2017 02:19 PM (cGlgB) How about actually calling shit like it is, blame Democrats and GOP collaborators and rally the people who voted for you because you ran on draining the swamp? That might work.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (mbhDw)

168 time to move on before we get into a blood war. I vote for crossbows.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (mpXpK)

169 You would think that a smart policy wonk would have known, from the beginning, that the FC wasn't going to support this un-Constitutional shit-sandwich. Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 30, 2017 02:19 PM (zc3Db) Ryan's masters thought he was as good a buffalo as Boehner.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (e3JIL)

170 "If he goes on like that I am going to promote the independence of Ohio and Austin, Texas in the U.S."

Austin, like Berkeley, is one of those municipalities which actually has its own foreign policy. So they're partway through the process of becoming a nation-state already.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (noWW6)

171 And Tom Cotton "we don't need to do it fast, we need to do it right". Where the fuck has he been for seven years while those "repeal and replace" bills were being passed- Antarctic ? Well, Mr. Smartypants Washington Insider Genius, he's only been in Congress since 2013 and only in the Senate since 2015. So...

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (O7MnT)

172 Of course, thinking about how RINOs never get this sort of verbal treatment gets the blood pressure rising.
Uh, did you not notice the whole primaries, where Trump slapped Jeb and Rubio around as RINO putzes? In fact, until it went sour, Trump and Cruz had a Bromance going.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:22 AM (ujg0T)

173 Getting to bankruptcy court was never going to be pretty.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 30, 2017 09:23 AM (FhXTo)

174 Also, TRUMP RAN AND WON on repealing Obamacare. Repeal the fucking law.

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:23 AM (U+nHb)

175 And away we go (and I'll just sit this one out.)

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 30, 2017 09:23 AM (RD7QR)

176 The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand. Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 02:00 PM (SIY7D) _______ Funny how that impossible uncompromising position made it all the way to Obamas desk to be vetoed just 2 years ago. We dont ask for the inhumane or impossible. We merely demand that they abide by their fucking promises.

Posted by: Nurse Ratched at March 30, 2017 09:23 AM (oQIG9)

177 133 I've got 1890s prOn that won't read itself. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing --- You're going to be disappointed. "Around the World in 80 Days" is about a balloon ride.

Posted by: Jules Verne at March 30, 2017 09:23 AM (5JlYa)

178 158 "Better" or "more electorally viable"? 80% of this country is brain dead. Posted by: West Town at March 30, 2017 02:20 PM (Y3C5w) ================= Pass good policy that helps people. The people will reward you later. Act 10 in Wisconsin: A Case Study.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:23 AM (ELUpj)

179 169; i'll see your crossbow vic, and raise you a trebuchet.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (NnhWY)

180 "Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 02:18 PM (O7MnT)" Bullshit. You do realize there are parts of Obamacare that were republican ideas- right? That Democrats shoehorned those in. Not only that, but republicans still largely support some provisions which are actually good ideas. I'm a little tired of the burn it down people who are just looking to break shit because they are closet anarchists. Repeat after me. The country doesn't run the way any single person or group wants it to. Never has and never will. They should figure out how to negotiate or go do something else.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (9IM0p)

181 And away we go (and I'll just sit this one out.) Posted by: joncelli Here. Here's a cold beer. Sit back and watch.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (4Utw1)

182 "To be perfectly honest, tax reform is way down my list on what needs to be fixed in Washington right at this moment." If we get good tax reform, fix the budget, promote America first and do the right kind of Infrastructure spending, we'll have the American economy red-lining real annual GDP growth over 4.0%. Do that for a decade and we get the wherewithal to fix a lot pf problems

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (SIY7D)

183 In the case of "repeal and replace", it was a hastily scrawled freehand talking point from a young PR flack working in Mitch McConnell's shop. Someone who later went on to handle flackery for the subsidy queens, crony capitalists and amnesty apologists over at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

There were no actual details or policy specifics wrapped around "repeal and replace". It was just a couple of words that rolled off their tongues smoothly and which presumably tested well in focus groups.

So right there you have the tell. "Repeal and replace" was, from the get-go, yet another Punch and Judy show to distract the slack-jawed rubes in the cheap seats. The GOP insider elite never regarded it with any seriousness nor did they invest it with any effort.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 02:19 PM (noWW6)



Thanks for that info, I did not know that, and it really helps to put this crap into some perspective!

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (jjaLl)

184 >>JackStraw, how many times does it have to be said, getting something done that is shit, doesn't help lower my premiums. Because this is bullshit. You are only quoting 1 part of the CBO findings. There is a phased in approach to allow the insurance markets to adjust and the CBO said that rates wouldn't start coming down until the phase in was over. The FC has never been scored. We have no idea what their approach would do so why are people shouting that only that approach would solve the insurance problem? There is no guarantee at all that things will go back to the status quo ante which wasn't very good anyway.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (/tuJf)

185 Many of the responses to his tweet are summed up as such "Nah, we are going to primary the RINOs instead"

Posted by: exsanguine at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (7myz6)

186 You think I'm just going to sit by and do NOTHING while you jokers give me a scalping in bankruptcy court? Really?

Posted by: china at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (C6xeQ)

187 The FC not only put a stop to changing Obamacare, they stopped any momentum Trump had regard to the rest of his conservative agenda. The Dems couldn't have done it better.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 09:24 AM (HJbDF)

188 Right, here we go again, I'm out. Later, Horde.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Deplorable Unicode Character at March 30, 2017 09:25 AM (9krrF)

189 Give me one good thing about this bill. Just one. I've never heard anything about its benefits from from its supporters other than "it's not obamacare." It bloc-granted Medicaid to the states; which is actually a good reform. But it is not a reform that would have lowered anyone's premiums or repealed the parts of Obamacare that were driving up premiums. Those would happened in Phase 3. Just like the Border was supposed to be secured in Phase 3 of every "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" bill since the 1986 Amnesty.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:25 AM (O7MnT)

190 Dems will get what they want: public option And more funding for insurance companies, too. Just watch. Trump won't fight. He's not that interested in repeal. During the election he already made noises that sounded pretty bolshie on healthcare. Eh, its what most people want: free chit.

Posted by: Harun at March 30, 2017 09:25 AM (UBBWX)

191 "If he goes on like that I am going to promote the independence of Ohio and Austin, Texas in the U.S." Austin, like Berkeley, is one of those municipalities which actually has its own foreign policy. So they're partway through the process of becoming a nation-state already. Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 02:22 PM (noWW6) Junkers doesn't understand the US very well. He can't tell the difference between Katshit and Abbott.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:25 AM (e3JIL)

192 Uh, did you not notice the whole primaries, where Trump slapped Jeb and Rubio around as RINO putzes? In fact, until it went sour, Trump and Cruz had a Bromance going. Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 02:22 PM (ujg0T) During elections, yes. But where is it when it comes to post election legislating? That's not meant to be snarky either. From everything I can remember, establishment types NEVER receive blowback or heat from other government officials.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 30, 2017 09:25 AM (72PAC)

193 "I've never heard anything about its benefits from from its supporters other than 'it's not obamacare.'"

Which is doubly absurd because it IS still Obamacare.

You've heard of "lipstick on a pig"? Well, this was the application of lipstick, concealer, blush, liposuction, rhinoplasty, a boob job, cheek implants, and tattooed eyeliner.

But the pig underneath was still the very same pig.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 09:26 AM (noWW6)

194 It is good that the GOP isn't unifying. Increasingly, parties not only fall in line behind the President when he is of their party, but alternate stances and potential competitors are shunted aside. The bench, then, for succeeding the President is not only thin, but tied to an outgoing President who may have outworn his welcome. By not unifying, organizational and intellectual diversity is maintained, thus helping to prevent the Dems from sweeping in.

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 30, 2017 09:26 AM (rUIbB)

195 Funny how that impossible uncompromising position made it all the way to Obamas desk to be vetoed just 2 years ago. A lot of things can be done "for show" when there's no chance in hell of it passing. Same as some senators votes. They vote for show when it's safe.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:26 AM (4Utw1)

196 Unforced error on Trump's part. He's making enemies unnecessarily.

Posted by: Jeffersonian at March 30, 2017 09:26 AM (+ttLq)

197 Not even going to pretend I have a clue what's going on here. Posted by: Brother Cavil, _____________________ I'd be more than happy to tweet-splain it to you. I'm smart like that...

Posted by: Chelsey Clinton at March 30, 2017 09:26 AM (HSmrB)

198 "Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 02:18 PM (O7MnT)" No shit. What's he been doing all that time? What is the number one issue that's been floating around? Yeah, but he's ignorant because you know, 2013. Spare me.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 09:26 AM (9IM0p)

199 I think it is just Trump putting pressure on the House but I'm concerned that it could also mean he is listening and trusting Ryan far too much here. The bill was a POS that would never have made it through all three "stages" and instead would have slowed down single payer by about 10 years while increasing the chance of a complete economic collapse with roving bands of cannibals throughout our major cities.

Posted by: Hopped Up On Something at March 30, 2017 09:27 AM (k7fBu)

200 197 Unforced error on Trump's part. He's making enemies unnecessarily. --------- Nailed it.

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:27 AM (U+nHb)

201 A lot of things can be done "for show" when there's no chance in hell of it passing. Same as some senators votes. They vote for show when it's safe. ==================== The Uniparty: Not just a figment of the Horde's Imagination.

Posted by: simplemind at March 30, 2017 09:27 AM (C6xeQ)

202 No President Trump, you need to embrace the Freedom Caucus.
They are the ones who have stood by their principals.
They are the ones who would like to drain that scum stained, disease ridden cesspool that is Washington DC.

So instead of attacking them join with them and see how far your policy's will go.

And while you are at it fire the head of the IRS, John Koskinen.  Him and any other Obama holdover needs to go.  They will do everything in their power to undermine you.

Posted by: Scuba Dude at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (Oq/TM)

203 Discussed on an earlier thread. After 2012, undoing OCare got a whole lot harder. Thanks, Mitt

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (SIY7D)

204 190 Those would happened in Phase 3. Just like the Border was supposed to be secured in Phase 3 of every "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" bill since the 1986 Amnesty. Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 02:25 PM (O7MnT) ================= Again, it's trust. If the base felt like they could trust leadership in Congress, then the base would be more open to waiting for Phase 3. But the base doesn't trust leadership, so when leadership asks for trust, the base doesn't offer it. Maybe leadership should have worked up to this solution over all of 2017. Start by appropriating the pittance of funds for the border wall, and then asked for some leeway in a phased approach to repealing and replacing the ACA. That might have worked.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (ELUpj)

205 @Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 02:00 PM (SIY7D) I'll let Jim Jordan respond: "...It doesn't do what we told the voters we were going to do, and the American people understand that. That's why only 17 percent of the population supports this legislation." So, Trump's position is, "Everyone is entitled to an option, so long as it's mine." The bill did zero of what politicians have promised and were elected to do for 7 years. Rather than send Trump any of the number of kabuki theater bills that actually did what was promised for 7 years, a handful of people cobble together some crap that keeps everything in place and tries to strong arm it through using exactly the same tactics that we all decried 7 years ago. It does nothing make insurance more affordable but, in fact, further drives up costs. It does not allow people to choose their doctor or scope of coverage. It does nothing to address the issues of frivolous litigation or buying insurance across state lines... Yet your argument is that reps representing 83% of the people who didn't like the bill and trying to do what their constituents elected them to do for 7 years, are the problem? Put differently, do elected officials have a duty to vote on behalf of a represent their constituents or does their obligation to the national party and a president who are trying to ram through legislation that 83% of the public does not want supersede that?

Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (Mq0tM)

206 He's just publicly trying to make himself appear as a centrist.

Posted by: Draki at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (Y0byY)

207 Funny how that impossible uncompromising position made it all the way to Obamas desk to be vetoed just 2 years ago. Where is it now? Why wasn't it brought back out? Maybe because it was never meant to be passed?

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (4Utw1)

208 195 It is good that the GOP isn't unifying. Increasingly, parties not only fall in line behind the President when he is of their party, but alternate stances and potential competitors are shunted aside. The bench, then, for succeeding the President is not only thin, but tied to an outgoing President who may have outworn his welcome. By not unifying, organizational and intellectual diversity is maintained, thus helping to prevent the Dems from sweeping in. Posted by: The Political Hat at March 30, 2017 02:26 PM (rUIbB) =============== Silver lining.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (ELUpj)

209 Funny how that impossible uncompromising position made it all the way to Obamas desk to be vetoed just 2 years ago. Posted by: Nurse Ratched at March 30, 2017 02:23 PM (oQIG9) Not really. The House and/or Senate never passed any real repeal. It was jut more bullshit from the VIchy GOP that they called "repeal" and they knew it was going to be vetoed, anyway. In the end, it didn't matter because it was bullshit. Everything the Vichy GOP has ever said or done has been total, unmitigated bullshit. If they had ever wanted to repeal BarkyCare they had multiple chances to do so if they attached a straight repeal to any of the myriad spending or debt-limit raising bills that HAD to pass. But they refused to ever attach anything important to those spending/debt measures and just kept printing money up for Barky to use to destroy America, with the final instance of this being the minute Ryan got into the Speakership and funded everything Barky wanted (and more) through the 2016 campaign.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (zc3Db)

210 President Trump is not a conservative.... Although he is better than the alternative. HRCWNEBPOTUS.

Posted by: USNtakim at March 30, 2017 09:28 AM (hMqvx)

211 Shots. Fired. In the foot.

Posted by: DynamiteDan at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (XeY55)

212 I think I'm just going to hole up in my bunker for this one.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (0mRoj)

213 202 A lot of things can be done "for show" when there's no chance in hell of it passing. Same as some senators votes. They vote for show when it's safe. ==================== The Uniparty: Not just a figment of the Horde's Imagination. Posted by: simplemind at March 30, 2017 02:27 PM (C6xeQ) ================ All the more reason to kill the filibuster completely.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (ELUpj)

214 Posted by: Scuba Dude at March 30, 2017 02:28 PM (Oq/TM) You know not everyone that was a member of the FC was opposed to the Ryan bill.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (HJbDF)

215 Warren , Cuomo, Spongebob Squarepants...if Trump alienates the Tea Party wing of the GOP, dems can nominate any one of these characters and they'll win in 2020.

Posted by: Sirius the Canine Pundit at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (LBO1U)

216 Here something everyone can agree on - Ryan has to go.

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (c6/9Q)

217 26 Unlike no other Presidential incumbent in a long time, Trump would rather do more in a first term rather than care about getting re-elected for a second (if he kicks ass in his first term, he knows he'll get re-elected. If not, he thinks he should get fired). Trump is already doing all he can with the powers of the Presidency. The issue is what happens to his agenda in Congress. The Ds are bent on obstructing Trump in the hopes of making him a one-termer. In the Senate, the Ds have the filibuster. In the House, the Ds have the FC being Purists. Thus, in a search for Perfection, the FC may be an enemy of the Good. The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand. Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 02:00 PM (SIY7D) It's much more complicated, and simpler, than that. It turns out, according to the whip count, that about 2/3 of the FC were onboard with the final bill, it was the *moderates* that were bailing over the concessions the FC got. Fundamental things in OCare that the "moderates" wanted to keep. The FC made the bill better, but still not "pure". So who should we really be fighting against?

Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (6GTWP)

218 JackStraw, how many times does it have to be said, getting something done that is shit, doesn't help lower my premiums.
Posted by: Seems legit


Who -- among all the actors in this theater -- is going to come out with the actual truth... that a system that needs to remove $9,500 a year from the wallet of every man, woman, and child in this country in order to cover the current cost... who wants to admit that the vast, vast majority of that money is expensed on people in the last year(s) of their life?

I don't think that makes me heartless for noticing, or make the people calling for lower premiums heartless. We have a problem of affordability. Someone has to cede a little ground.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum [i] at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (ZFUt7)

219 >>Funny how that impossible uncompromising position made it all the way to Obamas desk to be vetoed just 2 years ago. And yet, that never happened. What did happen was the House passed a reconciliation bill very similar to this one and then Senate amended it just like they would have with this one and then Obama vetoed it which Trump would not have. Another myth that just won't die.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:29 AM (/tuJf)

220 >>By not unifying, organizational and intellectual diversity is maintained, thus helping to prevent the Dems from sweeping in. Posted by: The Political Hat at March 30, 2017 02:26 PM (rUIbB)

If this is true, then the Democrats hate to see Republicans at each others' throats, because a fractured GOP is stronger than a unified, unimaginative Democrat party. I may have misread you, but that sounds like crazy-talk. I'd bet their penile pheygymobmebgraphs are redlining at all this infighting.

Posted by: General Zod at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (Bdeb0)

221 Brass ones on PDT.

Posted by: m [/b][/i][/s][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (Gqgs8)

222 I was originally for Cruz because he is closest to my conservative values. But in my heart I never believed that he could win the presidency even if he had won the primary. And if by chance he had become president, there is no way in hell ANYONE in the House or Senate (save for Mike Lee and just a few others) would have cooperated with him in any way. In my view, Trump was and is the only person who could possibly reform Washington in any way. I'll take baby steps and be happy with it. Never forget-----the alternative was Hillary Clinton. I thank God every day that that beast was defeated.

Posted by: IrishEi at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (HiDrR)

223 130 The FC isn't the enemy of the good. The bill wasn't good. It didn't even rate a "fair." It was a turd in the punch bowl. Trump should've simply said, "I'm not supporting this dreck, do better." He really fucked up his first chance. Posted by: Jason M at March 30, 2017 02:17 PM (S1+dw)
A little refresher course: Laws start in the House. It never even got to the point where Donald could oppose it.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (ujg0T)

224 And it's April whatsface again to get all outraged at Spicer and be the media hero of the day again

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (493sH)

225 no good can come of this, so I might have to share that bunker with Insomniac.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (o4kib)

226 "Phase 3" is for idiots. There never was a "Phase 3". The bill that got vetoed by Obama was "The Bill to Send", but the RINOs don't actually want to repeal Obamacare. They want to be in charge of it.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (6gk0M)

227 The Left tells you who they fear.

Posted by: Iblis at March 30, 2017 09:30 AM (9221z)

228 Do I hear Reince Priebus has to go ? Going once, going twice....

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:31 AM (c6/9Q)

229 so he wants to primary a caucus?

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 30, 2017 09:31 AM (oGRue)

230 Arguing the contents of RynoCare is discovering the contents of a turd. One does not need to dissect a turd to know that it is scat. Trump said he was going to repeal ObamaCare. Trump should repeal ObamaCare.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:31 AM (e3JIL)

231 You do realize there are parts of Obamacare that were republican ideas- right? That Democrats shoehorned those in. So THAT'S how it passed the House and Senate without a single Republican vote in either chamber. Because those fucking Republicans were in on it. By not voting for it. That level of gamesmanship is way above me. No wonder I don't appreciate the subtle majesty of The Process.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 09:31 AM (tFWWx)

232 But you know, all of these calls about how great it is when Congress achieves "consensus" got me to thinking about things Congress came together on and how well they worked out. - The TARP bailouts. - The Iraq War Resolution - The Americans with Disabilities Act. - The Creation of the TSA As someone once said, if you put a bunch of kids with Down's Syndrome in a room, there's going to be a lot of hugging.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:31 AM (O7MnT)

233 "Do I hear Reince Priebus has to go ? Going once, going twice..." -Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 02:31 PM (c6/9Q) Seconded.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:31 AM (6gk0M)

234 another four years of w or ophuckstick would cure y'all.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 09:32 AM (NnhWY)

235 Ignoramus: "The FC are like many posters here, who want to believe that an uncompromising position is what's true and good. But that's not how politics works, and they're over-playing their hand."
Wrong. Completely wrong - well, I won't address the generalization about commenters here, since surely you've captured some existing category there.
t's not about "compromise", or "purism" - and really, those are markers for observers who don't understand, or perhaps care, about substance and results.
I don't know every detail of the process, but it appears that it was handled very poorly. As far as coordination. Or even a "closed rule" on the bill - meaning, in the House, no votes on floor amendments.
But THAT's not the key point, either.
When a reconciliation bill does not cleanly repeal the reconciliation-passed elements of O-care, but instead creates its own Rube Goldberg addition to use the tax system for one more govt.-directed bit of social engineering, there is an understandable lack of faith in the phased process.
Most here don't know much about how the Hill works. Those who do know that a highly credible, politically savvy, substantively acceptable approach was obvious and doable: clean reconciliation repeal of reconciliation-based elements, near-simultaneous House passage of the other key things (especially "essential benefits" requirements) that were not germane to a reconciliation bill, ALONG with Price's assurance that he would be moving, within a short specific time-line to administratively provide relief.
A phased process, but one that put everyone on the line, immediately, for actually repairing the worst of the damage.
To avoid muddying the waters with Medicaid, fine, separate it out, don't even address it - put all of that in a separate, free-standing bill.
So no, Ignoramus, some of us here actually worked in Congress for years, still know many people who are now members, not just staffers, and don't rely on these cartoonish concepts of "purist" and "establishment" to understand a situation.
And to toss in a dubious yet obviously valid ad hominem element, as shibumi noted in an earlier thread, it's pretty clear that those who are so blase about the ravages of O-care actually being addressed (after 7 years of political backlash to see that they are addressed) have little skin in the game.
Millions and millions have no insurance for the first time in their lives, or have been financially body-slammed by continuing to buy "insurance" after 500% premium increases. Most - and probably 100% of people here who are so blase about any realistic, serious action to provide relief - have faced comparatively trivial premium increases, though in some cases also some serious network/provider impact.
Observers who understand the O-care disaster in a substantive way, and who understand legislative process first-hand, have solid reasons to find the House GOP's (and even the WH's) performance here completely non-credible. Posted by: rhomboid at March 30, 2017 02:18 PM (+wjl1)
=====

^^^THIS^^^

Posted by: mustbequantum at March 30, 2017 09:32 AM (MIKMs)

236 Bob Dole said it best "we're just tax collectors for the welfare state"

Posted by: torabora at March 30, 2017 09:32 AM (YdwoD)

237 >>>>>Trump's just playing hardball.

The Freedom Caucus must have some good input. He should listen to them.

Krauthammer had mentioned they never should have done this in 3 parts. Smoosh it all together and maybe they'll vote Yes.
.
.
.Exactly.  This is the way Trump operates. 

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 30, 2017 09:32 AM (le7jz)

238 Lastly, the best Lara Croft is Tomb Rader Legend. Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 02:10 PM (mf5HN) Now this is a statement worth getting upset over.

Posted by: Thursby at March 30, 2017 09:32 AM (1wofY)

239 To avoid muddying the waters with Medicaid, fine, separate it out, don't even address it - put all of that in a separate, free-standing bill.
And THIS is why there is going to be a Step One, a Step Two, etc. Which is actually better. "Comprehensive" or "Omnibus" bills tend to be crap-tastic.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:32 AM (ujg0T)

240 GOOS FRABBA GOOOOOOS FRABBBBA https://tinyurl.com/n8fg4ol http://preview.tinyurl.com/n8fg4ol OMMMMMMMM OMMMMMMMM NOMNOMNOMMMMM

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (2pucm)

241 Just think what would be happening in DC right now if the Hildebeast had won. I am still thanking God for Trump. He might not be doing well in some aspects of his presidency, but he's kicking ass in so many others. Let's not forget that.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (Fmupd)

242 The bill that got vetoed by Obama was "The Bill to Send", but the RINOs don't actually want to repeal Obamacare. They want to be in charge of it. If they did want to repeal it, THAT bill would be sitting on Trump's desk. Funny. That bill made it to Obola's desk with less Republicans in the House and Senate than there is now. WHERE'S THE BILL?

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (4Utw1)

243 233 But you know, all of these calls about how great it is when Congress achieves "consensus" got me to thinking about things Congress came together on and how well they worked out. - The TARP bailouts. - The Iraq War Resolution - The Americans with Disabilities Act. - The Creation of the TSA As someone once said, if you put a bunch of kids with Down's Syndrome in a room, there's going to be a lot of hugging. Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 02:31 PM (O7MnT) ================ Yes. I remember when I first started working at my current employer, it was 2013 and a friend of mine was talking to someone else, lamenting the fact that the two parties couldn't just work together. I turned around, mentioned the Patriot Act, and turned back. That conversation ended very quickly.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (ELUpj)

244 Seconded.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) (T) at March 30, 2017 02:31 PM (6gk0M)


sold, to gentleman in the corner ! young man, please pay the cashier.

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (c6/9Q)

245 What's he been doing all that time? What is the number one issue that's been floating around? And what has Paul Ryan been doing since he has been in Congress the whole time, and running every election since 2010 on a promise to repeal Obamacare?

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (O7MnT)

246 It turns out, according to the whip count, that about 2/3 of the FC were onboard with the final bill, it was the *moderates* that were bailing over the concessions the FC got. Fundamental things in OCare that the "moderates" wanted to keep. The FC made the bill better, but still not "pure". --- would have been nice to have an actual vote to have gotten them on the actual record.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 30, 2017 09:33 AM (oGRue)

247 Trump said he was going to repeal ObamaCare. Trump should repeal ObamaCare ---------- Yes. That's what his voters, who took a lot of shit for it by the way, expected.

Posted by: Seems legit at March 30, 2017 09:34 AM (U+nHb)

248 Maybe leadership should have worked up to this solution over all of 2017. Start by appropriating the pittance of funds for the border wall,
---
That would have built trust as it's clearly something they don't want to do, but it's looking increasingly like they won't do that either.

Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 09:34 AM (3Liv/)

249 Assume circular position and commence firing.

Posted by: spoonfeed me at March 30, 2017 09:34 AM (bcDxW)

250 3 grid your lions Posted by: Shoey at March 30, 2017 01:08 PM (OYK2S) I understood you prefectly. Hey, that skinny dog looks emancipated.

Posted by: Norm Crosby at March 30, 2017 09:34 AM (+kahX)

251 229 Do I hear Reince Priebus has to go ? Going once, going twice.... Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 02:31 PM (c6/9Q) Agreed. I called Katie Walsh being a problem who needed to close to a month ago. Reince Priebus has failed miserably at whipping up and getting the Republicans behind the Trump Agenda, which is the sole reason why he was hired as Chief of Staff.

Posted by: Phone of Widespread Pepe at March 30, 2017 09:34 AM (GLgXc)

252 "republican" was a convenience. there's only the trump party. brand trump. best. brand. ever!

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (WTSFk)

253 Trump said he was going to repeal ObamaCare. Trump should repeal ObamaCare. Posted by: gNewt Send him that one line repeal bill.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (4Utw1)

254 Mr. President, if you cannot do a clean repeal take Jackson's picture off the wall.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (e3JIL)

255 Trump's just playing hardball. The Freedom Caucus must have some good input. Posted by: artisanal 'ette ==== Shhh. The nevertrumpers are gonna splain us how REAL negotiating gets done. Also their little pee pees are standing up in Fk Trump -seeitoldyaso solidarity. They need this. Badly.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (fLMbU)

256 I'm still think Trump is playing the establishment. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, given that the alternative is totally unacceptable.

Posted by: Strobe at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (gbWkA)

257 249 Maybe leadership should have worked up to this solution over all of 2017. Start by appropriating the pittance of funds for the border wall, --- That would have built trust as it's clearly something they don't want to do, but it's looking increasingly like they won't do that either. Posted by: Methos, back to Let It Burn, and also, done with Trump at March 30, 2017 02:34 PM (3Liv/) ================= Why won't we just lay back and think of America?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (ELUpj)

258 Let's Light This Bitch On Fire!

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (6gk0M)

259 In our next lot we ahve an average looking, yet feisty White House Spokesman.  Been bandied a bit, but still has some spunk...

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:35 AM (c6/9Q)

260 >>>As someone once said, if you put a bunch of kids with Down's Syndrome in a room, there's going to be a lot of hugging.





And plenty of counting to potato......



Sorry, had to do it......

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at March 30, 2017 09:36 AM (jjaLl)

261 ... and did you see where trump said the troops are "fighting like never before"? sheeesh, doing his stand up self-promotion bit.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 30, 2017 09:36 AM (WTSFk)

262 The media narrative is going to change from "Hitler!" to "Hah! You rubes elected a moderate!" Trump's smart to change the narrative - how can he be Hitler if he's repudiating conservatives? I don't feel betrayed yet...just think of this as a Sista Soulja moment. Trump will advance the cause. And remember re: the shifting media narrative - when they start attacking us for Trump shifting his tone, it should be obvious that they never hated Trump, they really just hated us all along.

Posted by: Tim Marchman at March 30, 2017 09:36 AM (Yx9SN)

263 Watch what he does not what he says. Or as someone put it: Trump's critics take him literally, not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, not literally. My take: "Come to the negotiating table so we can work something out here."

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Has Got it, Yeah Baby It's Got It at March 30, 2017 09:36 AM (hLRSq)

264 For those who keep wrongly insisting that Congress passed a clean repeal bill last year and Obama vetoed it, please see this link. http://tinyurl.com/mqd4p6f They did exactly what they tried to do this time, a reconciliation bill, that Obama vetoed. This was NOT a straight repeal. It was virtually identical to this bill.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (/tuJf)

265 Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (LTHVh)

266 The good news for people who blame the "treasonous" Freedom Caucus for breaking ranks on Rynocare... Geraldo Rivera stands with you. https://news.grabien.com/story-geraldo-accuses-freedom-caucus-committing-treason-opposing-r

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (O7MnT)

267
How about actually calling shit like it is, blame Democrats and GOP collaborators and rally the people who voted for you because you ran on draining the swamp?

If you called out GOP collaborators you would be calling out the entire leadership of the GOP. It will be such of a great moral victory, our dicks would get so hard because of it but then nothing would actually happen. The people who voted for Trump don't run congress but the people he would have just pissed off do.

Posted by: Drew in MO at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (cGlgB)

268 256 Shhh. The nevertrumpers are gonna splain us how REAL negotiating gets done. Also their little pee pees are standing up in Fk Trump -seeitoldyaso solidarity. They need this. Badly. Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 02:35 PM (fLMbU) ================= My personal biggest issue with the AHCA is the fact that that was the House's opening gambit to the Senate. It's a terrible way to start that negotiation. They started by ceding a whole lot of ground that should have been fought for.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (ELUpj)

269 And what has Paul Ryan been doing since he has been in Congress the whole time, and running every election since 2010 on a promise to repeal Obamacare? -- Ryan is not really conservative.

Posted by: Harun at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (UBBWX)

270 Do i hear a starting bid for White House Spokesman ? Come now, he is a genuine Rhode Islander !

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:37 AM (c6/9Q)

271 Don't make me go Roethlisberger on all y'all's asses.

Posted by: Kim Kardashian at March 30, 2017 09:38 AM (W8bn5)

272 I'm just wondering about Trump's thought process where he became convinced Ryan was on his side and the people who got him elected were vermin.

Posted by: OCBill at March 30, 2017 09:38 AM (df+Zi)

273 I supported Trump early but I'm happy to admit that I'm with the FC on this. I think Trump doesn't give shit about what's in it which is why its Ryno care. There is no middle ground on this or anything else for that matter, if you want it to succeed. Anything the Dems contribute to tax reform or healthcare or anything else will be an albatross that mitigates to catastrophy. Leaving in place a structure of govt designed, managed, subsidized and reimbursed program can only manage to delay the blossoming of this huge mess long enough so Dems can wash their hands of it and the Republicans get full credit for crash of this entitlement program. It needs free market solutions to succeed. Ann Coulter's plan is good so is Mo's.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at March 30, 2017 09:38 AM (kfcYC)

274 "If they did want to repeal it, THAT bill would be sitting on Trump's desk. Funny. That bill made it to Obola's desk with less fewer Republicans in the House and Senate than there is now. WHERE'S THE BILL?" -Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:33 PM (4Utw1) That's what I'm saying. This "Three-Stage Bullshit" is nothing more than a smokescreen for idiots to argue over.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:38 AM (6gk0M)

275 In our next lot we ahve an average looking, yet feisty White House Spokesman. Been bandied a bit, but still has some spunk... Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 02:35 PM (c6/9Q) Barry: There is a lot of spunk here in Tahiti!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:38 AM (493sH)

276 Pelosi and Schumer hated the AHCA so much that it would have been interesting to pass it just on that fact alone.

Posted by: torabora at March 30, 2017 09:39 AM (YdwoD)

277 Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 30, 2017 02:29 PM (ZFUt7) Exactly. When cost is the problem, adding trillions in costs and propping up costs via subsidies is not a solution. Using the force of government for income and wealth redistribution and government enforced charity and calling it "insurance" does not change or improve anything.

Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 09:39 AM (Mq0tM)

278 Trump's smart to change the narrative - how can he be Hitler if he's repudiating conservatives? Just like the Democrats were smart to change the Narrative from "Hillary lost because Democrats were out of touch with middle America" to "Hillary lost because Russia." It's funny how often what is "smart" in Washington involves duplicity and deception.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:39 AM (O7MnT)

279 Don't make me go Roethlisberger on all y'all's asses.

Posted by: Kim Kardashian at March 30, 2017 02:38 PM (W8bn5)


Say what ?

Posted by: Amy Schumer at March 30, 2017 09:39 AM (c6/9Q)

280 we'll have the American economy red-lining real annual GDP growth over 4.0%.

While medical spending grows at over 8%.  Double your money, double your fun.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 30, 2017 09:40 AM (FhXTo)

281 I wish that Obamacare was completely repealed. I wish that I could go back to the 70s (?) and beat Ted Kennedy over the head for introducing HMOs to our system. I wish I could go back to the post WWII period when government intervened by putting salary limits on employers, thereby encouraging them to offer "benefits" like healthcare to lure potential employees in lieu of the forbidden higher salaries. I want the government COMPLETELY OUT of health insurance and healthcare---entirely. But that is never going to happen. Think of the government as a viciously malignant glioblastoma, with tentacles and even barely visible threads infiltrating every facet of our lives. It is nearly impossible to root it all out. Sadly. We need to stick together and take what little good we can one step at a time. Like the democrats have done for the last seventy years.

Posted by: IrishEi at March 30, 2017 09:40 AM (HiDrR)

282 This just seemed like an unforced error on the part of Trump and his people. The blame for the healthcare debacle clearly fell on the shoulders of Paul "I'm a Wonk not a leader" Ryan, who introduced a bill without making sure it was going to pass before introducing it (and in my opinion, knew repeal/replace would never pass because of the optics of people losing their insurance). Trump got stuck with some of the bad press because of the bad press, so I assume he's chafing because of that- but instead of blaming Ryan and his merry band of RINOS, he's not only blaming the Freedom Caucus but is going to start a big fight with them and their supporters, many of whom have been Trumps stalwart base (for those who deregulation and limited government are the most important issues). This almost sounds like a Steve Bannon issue- I haven't taken umbrage with Bannon and his past like many have but hearing about the (alleged) meeting with Bannon and the Freedom Caucus where he (allegedly) threatened them, this tweet seems like the logical outcome of that meeting. Its disappointing because the simplest thing for Trump to do is promise to work with all Republicans to craft a better bill - his whole "I'm gonna do it with Democrats if you won't get on board" is Fing laughable- Donald, the democrats hate you and will never support anything you do. Or to put it another way "Never take sides against the family, Fredo."

Posted by: Baboo the Oceleot at March 30, 2017 09:40 AM (EIZU+)

283 "He's making enemies unnecessarily."

Before Trump, the GOP convened "circular firing squads".

Now, in the Glorious New-Dawning Era of Chairman Scalpweasel, they won't be doing that any more.

Instead, advised by the "Office of American Innovation", what Republicans will now convene will be _zero-gee, 3-D, *spherical*_ firing squads! With laser beams! A triumph of progress and U.S. technology!

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 09:40 AM (noWW6)

284 Freedom Caucus haters drift close with the neverTrumpers.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:40 AM (e3JIL)

285 WHERE'S THE BILL? Good question!

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 09:40 AM (u0s1P)

286 Is the sausage ready to eat yet? "Cause it's not very appetizing to watch it getting made.

Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (DQ4Fv)

287 what has ryan been doing? picking out nipple rouge and fapping. but, mostly picking out nipple rouge. miss lindsey helps.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (NnhWY)

288 >>>And plenty of counting to potato...... Hmmmmm.....intredasting.... :::puffs on bubble pipe:::

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (2pucm)

289 Chris on a cracker, are there really "told you so" nevertrumpers laying in wait? You "told" us a bunch of shite. That's all you "told" us and you're still telling it. Go vote for The Hag again. That would be much better than this.

Posted by: Mega at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (hHFOx)

290 I was not a Trump supporter but once he was elected I expect his party to support his agenda. Why have party politics if you're going to oppose your party leader on his first legislative attempt? It's insane.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (HJbDF)

291 Agreed. I called Katie Walsh being a problem who needed to close to a month ago.

Reince Priebus has failed miserably at whipping up and getting the Republicans behind the Trump Agenda, which is the sole reason why he was hired as Chief of Staff.

Posted by: Phone of Widespread Pepe at March 30, 2017 02:34 PM (GLgXc)


that is interesting, that she's out

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (c6/9Q)

292 >>My personal biggest issue with the AHCA is the fact that that was the House's opening gambit to the Senate. >>It's a terrible way to start that negotiation. They started by ceding a whole lot of ground that should have been fought for. Please read the link I posted at 265. It worked last time. Note where govtrack says that this wasn't a full repeal but it repealed things necessary to make it work. Also note where Chris Van Hollen said that Republicans were attempting to dismantle Obamacare with this bill. Pass that bill and Obamacare is dead.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (/tuJf)

293 Would love to see Austin Exit. We could roll in and conquer on our way home from work and expel all liberals to New Mexico.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:21 PM


May I suggest something less close, and even more familiar and welcoming, the Seattle-Portland-San Francisco-San Jose-Los Angeles-San Diego Coastalplex?

Posted by: Duncanthrax[/i] at March 30, 2017 09:41 AM (DMUuz)

294 What did happen was the House passed a reconciliation bill very similar to this one and then Senate amended it just like they would have with this one and then Obama vetoed it which Trump would not have. Another myth that just won't die. Nobody gives a shit, Jack. They passed a bill. Obama vetoed it. Ryan called it repeal. End of story. What will be your next excuse ? The Repubs were just practicing ? They didn't really mean it ? Whi gives a shit. Dust off that bill. Run it again.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 09:42 AM (tFWWx)

295 If they did want to repeal it, THAT bill would be sitting on Trump's desk. Funny. That bill made it to Obola's desk with less fewer Republicans in the House and Senate than there is now. ---- didn't we lose house and senate seats in 2016?

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 30, 2017 09:42 AM (oGRue)

296 Wow.  I've just been reading the prog hatred directed at the Pences because of their strong marriage and Christian beliefs.

Pence said he makes it a point to never eat alone with another woman, and the liberal knives came out:  "He's more Muslim than Obama!!" sez a commenter at the WaPo.

Huh. 


Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 09:42 AM (PY9jH)

297 Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. Posted by: Grump928(C) _____________________________ True,, but I'ma' moving on up though...

Posted by: Chelsey Clinton at March 30, 2017 09:42 AM (HSmrB)

298 227 "Phase 3" is for idiots. There never was a "Phase 3". The bill that got vetoed by Obama was "The Bill to Send", but the RINOs don't actually want to repeal Obamacare. They want to be in charge of it. Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) (T) Prof Slap summed it up right there: King of the internet.

Posted by: Hopped Up On Something at March 30, 2017 09:42 AM (k7fBu)

299 "Trump should repeal ObamaCare" He needs Congress, no? Supposedly the Rs have a big majority in the House, but delivered an outcome that in effect leaves OCare in place, creates the optics that the failures of OCare now fall on the Rs, and makes Nancy and Chuck smile

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 09:43 AM (SIY7D)

300 Pence said he makes it a point to never eat alone with another woman, and the liberal knives came out: "He's more Muslim than Obama!!" sez a commenter at the WaPo. Geez. Stupidity on parade. If he was "more muslim", he'd have dinner with all 6 of his wives.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:43 AM (4Utw1)

301 "Better" or "more electorally viable"? 80% of this country is brain dead. Posted by: West Town at March 30, 2017 02:20 PM (Y3C5w) TL;DR How about we stop yelling at each other and try comprehending the other's position for once in our lives? We conservatives, and I will lump myself in with this group, keep stating that we have the better ideas. That they will provide better lives for people. That they will promote freedom. That in the arena of ideas we will win. Well, you know what? We, and I absolutely mean I in this case, need to put up or shut up. The GOP dog caught the government car once again. Okay. Prove it. If what we want is better, prove it. We've got our hands on all the reins of power. Put. Up. Or. Shut. Up. For example, let's take JackStraw (I'm not singling him out to be cruel). He's rather obviously not a fan of the Freedom Caucus and its positions. Okay. Then it is the job of the Freedom Caucus and those who are more in its camp to *persuade* him that those positions are better. Not to merely sneer and yell. Because, bluntly, Jack's got a right to presume that if that's all you can do, you don't have a better argument. I'm on the FC's side and I'm put off by much of what I see here. Not all, but much. If I am, how much more so is someone who is inclined to disapprove of them in the first place. And now is where I single JackStraw out. Jack, you've been here for yonks. You know the ways of the Horde. Do you honestly and truly believe that your constant sneering that oh you just don't understand how this process works serves to advance your position at all? For that matter, do you comprehend that you aren't actually presenting a coherent position but rather are coming across as merely parroting but this is how it's done so this is how it must be done when a significant portion of us here think that the process itself is a huge part of the problem? If you think the process should be defended, by all means, do so. But this constant oh you just don't get how it works is offputting in the extreme. People are no more inclined to listen to you, no matter how sound your points, then you are to listen to those defending the FC. It works both ways. I'm going to claim Absolute Moral Authority on being such an asshole that people won't listen to what you're saying because you're such an asshole, what with that being a core competency of mine. And that's what I see going on by all sides right now. We're not listening to each other. Hell, we aren't even talking to each other. We're all just trying to red ass baboon how much better and smarter than we are than the others here when everyone knows that I win that contest. By which I mean having the biggest, reddest ass and, no, you can't have pics.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 09:43 AM (mf5HN)

302 Breaking:Hitler looking schlong stepped on by expensive golf shoe.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 09:44 AM (nN3W/)

303 >>>Didn't we lose house and senate seats in 2016? Yeah, Mark Kirk (DIABLO) and Kelly Ayotte (DIABLO)

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 09:44 AM (O7MnT)

304 Trump never was a Conservative, but if anyone thinks that any of the candidates, beside Cruz and Paul would have done anything better than Trump has already accomplished? ...I question your sanity. Even Cruz and Paul would have difficulty at this stage. If Jeb! were in charge? We'd have a slightly-worse Hillary.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:44 AM (6gk0M)

305 Re: V the K at Gabrien: "I don't blame President Trump and I don't blame Speaker Ryan for the failure of the health care bill. What you have there was the knife in the back, the treason, the treachery of the Freedom Caucus? What is the freedom caucus? It's 40 or so congressmen who are free from responsibility." As if we need another reminder that Jerry Rivers should ever have one's ear. What a hysterical liar.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 30, 2017 09:44 AM (1CroS)

306 [/May I suggest something less close, and even more familiar and welcoming, the Seattle-Portland-San Francisco-San Jose-Los Angeles-San Diego Coastalplex? Posted by: Duncanthrax[/i] Already been proposed: Ecotopia, by Ernest Callenbach, 1975: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia Proposed a separate nation consisting of Northern California, Oregon and Washington. A perfect, left-wing ecological utopia. Time to re-launch the concept?

Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 09:44 AM (DQ4Fv)

307 If Trump is so bad, let's start a "Conservatives for Trump's Impeachment" and insist that Hillary really did win the election.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 09:44 AM (Fmupd)

308 "He's making enemies unnecessarily." Before Trump, the GOP convened "circular firing squads". Now, in the Glorious New-Dawning Era of Chairman Scalpweasel, they won't be doing that any more. Instead, advised by the "Office of American Innovation", what Republicans will now convene will be _zero-gee, 3-D, *spherical*_ firing squads! With laser beams! A triumph of progress and U.S. technology! Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 02:40 PM (noWW6) As was mentioned yesterday (attribution unknown): "Office of American Innovation" Ivanka's husband. Two Goldman Sachs vampire squids. An absurdly rich Ivy League college bro of Ivanka's husband. The former CFO of Government Motors. A guy who was a "policy advisor" to Mitch McClownhole.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (e3JIL)

309 This was NOT a straight repeal. It was virtually identical to this bill. The 2016 bill was eight pages. This latest one was over 120. Put HR 3762 back on the floor.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (tFWWx)

310 Phase IV - watch out for the ants!

Posted by: Strobe at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (gbWkA)

311 would have been nice to have an actual vote to have gotten them on the actual record. Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 30, 2017 02:33 PM (oGRue) Nah! Couldn't have that! Welcome to our democratic republic, where everyone will vote as instructed and in unison by the party leaders and against the will of their constituents or the vote gets cancelled.

Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (Mq0tM)

312 True,, but I'ma' moving on up though... Posted by: Chelsey Clinton at March 30, 2017 02:42 PM (HSmrB) Top of the world, ma!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (493sH)

313 How about we stop yelling at each other and try comprehending the other's position for once in our lives? Is that English?

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (u0s1P)

314 293 Please read the link I posted at 265. It worked last time. Note where govtrack says that this wasn't a full repeal but it repealed things necessary to make it work. Also note where Chris Van Hollen said that Republicans were attempting to dismantle Obamacare with this bill. Pass that bill and Obamacare is dead. Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 02:41 PM (/tuJf) ================== Excuse me if I don't believe a Democratic partisan former Congressman when he's trying to gin up opposition to a Republican bill. Again...the base doesn't trust leadership. How can leadership go about changing that? I can tell you one way to not do that: Promise 3 phases (2 of which don't really exist yet) and then demand loyalty to Phase 1 without question. I'm not talking congress people. I'm talking us. We do not trust leadership. How was this process supposed to help that?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:45 AM (ELUpj)

315 By which I mean having the biggest, reddest ass and, no, you can't have pics. Posted by: alexthechick Dammit!

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:46 AM (4Utw1)

316 Wow the President of the EU is threatening to break up the US if  Trump doesn't start supporting the EU.  Drudge has the story up. 

This should be good!

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 30, 2017 09:46 AM (le7jz)

317 If Jeb! were in charge? We'd have a slightly-worse Hillary.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) (T) at March 30, 2017 02:44 PM (6gk0M)



The Beast would have handily beat Jeb!, even if she had to be dragged by her feet from state to state.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 09:46 AM (PY9jH)

318 >>What will be your next excuse ? The Repubs were just practicing ? They didn't really mean it ? Instead of snarking all the time, how about you try using your head for a change. 240 Republicans voted for that reconciliation bill. That means every Republican but 3 including the members of the Freedom Caucus. It is the same bill. Read it for a change. So you tell me, why are you and your heros lying about that bill, what it did and didn't do and why are they and you now opposed to it?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:46 AM (/tuJf)

319 >>>69 Bad move Trump, you dance with the one that brought you. Flag on the Southern, here! -->you dance with the one what brung you

Posted by: m [/b][/i][/s][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:46 AM (Gqgs8)

320 Wow the President of the EU is threatening to break up the US if Trump doesn't start supporting the EU. Drudge has the story up. This should be good! I went back to Ohio, and it was a whole nother country.

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 09:47 AM (u0s1P)

321 Um, we don't even know what the bill actually did as the first one posted was incomprehesible and the final draft with all of the amendments was never posted so who the fuck knows. The FC was right to torpedo that garbage. If the GOP is serious about doing something about healthcare, they're not but let's suppose, they would start over with a transparent process that, shit canned OCare and intstituted market based reforms that went after both the demand and supply sides. At the end of the day, if we don't have a system that is more affordable, with better more available service then basically it's a circle jerk.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 30, 2017 09:47 AM (3Xxpy)

322 Please stop with the hotair bullshit.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 30, 2017 09:47 AM (dPSy3)

323 what has ryan been doing? picking out nipple rouge
Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 02:41 PM


Man, that's got to hurt. Would cold cream help?

Posted by: Duncanthrax[/i] at March 30, 2017 09:47 AM (DMUuz)

324 297 Wow. I've just been reading the prog hatred directed at the Pences because of their strong marriage and Christian beliefs. Pence said he makes it a point to never eat alone with another woman, and the liberal knives came out: "He's more Muslim than Obama!!" sez a commenter at the WaPo. Huh. Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 02:42 PM (PY9jH) Not being alone with another woman makes one less prone to blackmail. As well as shielding one from potential sexual harassment charges. Many men in positions of power won't be alone with a woman at work for that reason.

Posted by: josephistan at March 30, 2017 09:47 AM (7HtZB)

325 307 Proposed a separate nation consisting of Northern California, Oregon and Washington. A perfect, left-wing ecological utopia. Time to re-launch the concept? Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 02:44 PM (DQ4Fv) By trebuchet if necessary.

Posted by: rickl at March 30, 2017 09:47 AM (zoehZ)

326 I was not a Trump supporter but once he was elected I expect his party to support his agenda. Why have party politics if you're going to oppose your party leader on his first legislative attempt? It's insane. Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 02:41 PM (HJbDF) ______ There is no party in the American constitution. There are 3 co-equal branches of government. Congressmen won their elections just as much as Trump did. There is no excuse for them not to keep their promises. This has nothing to do with Trump.

Posted by: Nurse Ratched at March 30, 2017 09:48 AM (oQIG9)

327 Hey, just for shits and giggles, let's try to imagine what the MSM would be writing about if a married ex-Republican president, fresh out of office, was spending one month in Tahiti with a bunch of other gays-- I mean, GUYS. Anyone want to take a stab at this?

Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 09:48 AM (7uYFy)

328 @theJamesMadison Yes I am just hoping that in the end they will be able to dismantle it piece by piece through the legislative process. It's funny to me though that the 'freedom caucusers' were in Congress for eight years and was unable to produce a bill or a consensus with their fellow legislators within that timeframe. Yet that's Trumps fault . He should hold those guys to a higher standard. They are better than that.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 09:48 AM (fLMbU)

329 I went back to Ohio, and it was a whole nother country.

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 02:47 PM (u0s1P)



At least the mail is delivered on time, I hear.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 09:48 AM (PY9jH)

330 318; Jane, yes she would. Handily. She wouldn't even have had to leave her ambulance, er van.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 09:48 AM (NnhWY)

331 LOL Popcorn. It's what's for dinner.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 30, 2017 09:48 AM (OUv08)

332 This was NOT a straight repeal. It was virtually identical to this bill. The 2016 bill was eight pages. This latest one was over 120. Put HR 3762 back on the floor. Posted by: ScoggDog There's a one line repeal bill out there. SEND IT UP!

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:49 AM (4Utw1)

333 Hey, just for shits and giggles, let's try to imagine what the MSM would be writing about if a married ex-Republican president, fresh out of office, was spending one month in Tahiti with a bunch of other gays-- I mean, GUYS.
Anyone want to take a stab at this?

Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 02:48 PM (7uYFy)



Hey, now.  TFG is the most loving, devoted husband father EVAH! 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 09:50 AM (PY9jH)

334 328: stab and gays in the same comment? i'm not touching that one.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 09:50 AM (NnhWY)

335 "Those who do know that a highly credible, politically savvy, substantively acceptable approach was obvious and doable: clean reconciliation repeal of reconciliation-based elements, near-simultaneous House passage of the other key things (especially "essential benefits" requirements) that were not germane to a reconciliation bill, ALONG with Price's assurance that he would be moving, within a short specific time-line to administratively provide relief." This makes incredible sense in the abstract. Why didn't the Rs in the House go for something like this? My read is that the Ds would have demagogued the hell out of this (they already started) and the moderate R House members feared running on it in 2018. (even though most have safe seats).

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 09:50 AM (SIY7D)

336 Well, you know what? We, and I absolutely mean I in this case, need to put up or shut up. The GOP dog caught the government car once again. Okay. Prove it. If what we want is better, prove it. We've got our hands on all the reins of power. Put. Up. Or. Shut. Up. ==== Glory hallelujah. Preach it sister.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 09:50 AM (fLMbU)

337 "But we elected Trump so anything is possible."

But a 1-in-a-million shot means you miss 999,999 times.

Posted by: Overton Window CLOSED For Season at March 30, 2017 09:50 AM (qYCgM)

338 >>> What you have there was the knife in the back, the treason, the treachery of the Freedom Caucus? What is the freedom caucus? It's 40 or so congressmen who are free from responsibility. ....... Well, that depends. Are representatives elected to represent the will of their constituents or the will of Donald Trump? If it's the latter, why bother with elections at all? Shouldn't we just get rid of Congress entirely and vest the president with the powers of a monarch?

Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 09:51 AM (Mq0tM)

339 >>Again...the base doesn't trust leadership. Pro-tip. The 30 some members of the Freedom Caucus do not constitute the majority of the base. It is a minority of Reps who shot this down, not the majority. And while you keep complaining about the 3 phases, only 2 of which are dependent on Congress since Phase 2 is entirely dependent on Price, come up with a better way of passing the legislation that can get through reconciliation because it can not pass through normal legislation. And don't say Mo Brooks one sentence bill. It won't pass.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:51 AM (/tuJf)

340 We're all just trying to red ass baboon how much better and smarter than we are than the others here when everyone knows that I win that contest.

By which I mean having the biggest, reddest ass and, no, you can't have pics.
Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 02:43 PM


And after the red buttocks display comes the flinging of poo!

Posted by: Sisters Dingo and Zoot at March 30, 2017 09:51 AM (DMUuz)

341 /i326 307 Proposed a separate nation consisting of Northern California, Oregon and Washington. A perfect, left-wing ecological utopia. Time to re-launch the concept? Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 02:44 PM (DQ4Fv) By trebuchet if necessary. Posted by: rick The truly hilarious aspect of the book is that it was modeled on the commune-based hippie alternative school The Pinel School, which the author thought was a fabulous concept. But I actually know people who attended Pinel School back in the '70s, and the universal assessment is that it was absolutely hell on earth, perhaps the worst school ever in the history of the United States. It was basically Lord of the Flies, but with more raping and communism.

Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 09:51 AM (DQ4Fv)

342 I can't take sides here. I have yet to see a clear explanation of what RynoCare would have done to ObamaCare, and what strategic factors drove the choices represented by RynoCare.
--

Ryancare:
-prices increasing for the next three years
-keeps illegals in the program

Sorry to keep harping on this, but most people have health insurance through their jobs. This doesn't affect them.

For a family, the self-employed are already paying the same for healthcare as for a mortgage payment. That will increase in three years.

Not what Trump campaigned on.

Posted by: shibumi at March 30, 2017 09:51 AM (FkAXz)

343 By which I mean having the biggest, reddest ass and, no, you can't have pics. Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 02:43 PM (mf5HN) ---- most of them can't

Posted by: Bob at NSA at March 30, 2017 09:51 AM (oGRue)

344 Instead of snarking all the time, how about you try using your head for a change. I READ BOTH BILLS !!! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME YOU SMUG DICK !!! THEY CAN'T BE !!! ONE HAS OVER 110 MORE PAGES THAN THE OTHER !!! WHAT HAVE I BEEN SAYING FOR HOW MANY WEEKS !?!?! PUT THE ORIGINAL BILL, HR 3762, BACK ON THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 09:52 AM (tFWWx)

345 I see we have no interest in our genue-ine Rhode Island Spokesman article, we shall save him for off-season.  Next lot.  Here we have a used IRS Commisioner, has little value but may be displayed at Halloween to frighten the children.

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:52 AM (c6/9Q)

346 >>> We're all just trying to red ass baboon how much better and smarter than we are than the others here when everyone knows that I win that contest. :::stops unbuckling pants:::

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 30, 2017 09:52 AM (2pucm)

347 By which I mean having the biggest, reddest ass and, no, you can't have pics. Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 02:43 PM (mf5HN) ---- most of them can't Posted by: Bob at NSA You're a dick if you don't share.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:52 AM (4Utw1)

348
The truly hilarious aspect of the book is that it was modeled on the commune-based hippie alternative school The Pinel School, which the author thought was a fabulous concept. But I actually know people who attended Pinel School back in the '70s, and the universal assessment is that it was absolutely hell on earth, perhaps the worst school ever in the history of the United States. It was basically Lord of the Flies, but with more raping and communism.

Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 02:51 PM (DQ4Fv)



So, Washington, DC?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 09:53 AM (PY9jH)

349 Repeal and Replace... Replace was added because Democrats demanded it. Listening to them is dumb. Repeal, then do something bipartisan. then if its bad, you can blame the Dems.

Posted by: Harun at March 30, 2017 09:53 AM (UBBWX)

350 All PDT is doing is negotiating...no big deal.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 30, 2017 09:53 AM (KlI/a)

351 Damn those obstinate, uncompromising do-nothing FC members who never had a seat at the Ryanocare table and were told by Bannion that there was no debate. The nerve of some people.

Posted by: McLurkerson at March 30, 2017 09:53 AM (dVU+d)

352 ..."It was basically Lord of the Flies, but with more raping and communism." -Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 02:51 PM (DQ4Fv) I had to quote that for my own reasons. It was a great line.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:54 AM (6gk0M)

353 I was not a Trump supporter but once he was elected I expect his party to support his agenda. Why have party politics if you're going to oppose your party leader on his first legislative attempt? It's insane. Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 02:41 PM (HJbDF) I know, right! In fact, why bother with any of this complexity at all? Let's just abolish congress and appoint a dictator!

Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 09:54 AM (Mq0tM)

354 Or to put it another way "Never take sides against the family, Fredo." Posted by: Baboo the Oceleot at March 30, 2017 02:40 PM (EIZU+) Think about it being the reverse situation. Ryan new it wasn't ready for prime time and it needed time but Trump, thinking Ryan was being too timid, told him to put it up for a vote. Trump dared (at Bannon's bequest) the FC to vote against it thinking he had better political instincts than Ryan and/or Preibus. What would back up this theory? -Trump is backing Ryan and not blaming him. -Ryan's been quite about the debacle. I think Trump apologized to Ryan and told him he'll have his full support. - Bannon's not been heard from since the debacle.

Posted by: WisRich at March 30, 2017 09:54 AM (hdpay)

355 329 @theJamesMadison Yes I am just hoping that in the end they will be able to dismantle it piece by piece through the legislative process. It's funny to me though that the 'freedom caucusers' were in Congress for eight years and was unable to produce a bill or a consensus with their fellow legislators within that timeframe. Yet that's Trumps fault . He should hold those guys to a higher standard. They are better than that. Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 02:48 PM (fLMbU) ================== I don't blame Trump. I blame Congressional leadership. And remember, the bill actually died because of moderate members peeling off.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:54 AM (ELUpj)

356 Repeal and Replace... Replace was added because Democrats demanded it. True. And when "replace" was adopted, we lost.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 30, 2017 09:55 AM (dPSy3)

357 So, um-- was Trump expecting the standard "honeymoon" phase of the Presidency? Even Bush got one, IIRC, but that was a long time ago.

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 09:55 AM (u0s1P)

358 WHAT HAVE I BEEN SAYING FOR HOW MANY WEEKS !?!?! PUT THE ORIGINAL BILL, HR 3762, BACK ON THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE !!! Mo Brooks introduced a one sentence repeal bill. No we can see who is serious about repeal and who isn't.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:55 AM (4Utw1)

359 I'm with rhomboid too. Trump is losing it. And I drove around in a Hillary county with a TRUMP sticker on my Expedition before the election.

Posted by: Kevin C at March 30, 2017 09:55 AM (9khZC)

360 It was basically Lord of the Flies, but with more raping and communism. Posted by: zombie at March 30, 2017 02:51 PM (DQ4Fv) A preview of Occupy Wall Street

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:55 AM (493sH)

361

 

 

247 house republicans 39 of which make up the FC and somehow they feel the American people are onboard with their idea on how to replace Obamacare.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 09:55 AM (lKyWE)

362 It's just so precious to see how many people think the GOP is capable, or even willing to see a "phased" process through. Magical Thinking: It's not just for Democrats anymore

Posted by: McLurkerson at March 30, 2017 09:56 AM (dVU+d)

363 Did somebody mention nipple rouge?

Posted by: RuPaul Ryan at March 30, 2017 09:56 AM (HgMAr)

364 Scogg seems serious. Are you serious? You seem serious. Nay, Determined. You're determined, aren't you?

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 09:56 AM (6gk0M)

365 He should hold those guys to a higher standard. They are better than that. Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 02:48 PM (fLMbU) -------------- I think that's what he's trying to do.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 09:56 AM (Fmupd)

366 354 I was not a Trump supporter but once he was elected I expect his party to support his agenda. Why have party politics if you're going to oppose your party leader on his first legislative attempt? It's insane. Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 02:41 PM (HJbDF) I know, right! In fact, why bother with any of this complexity at all? Let's just abolish congress and appoint a dictator! Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 02:54 PM (Mq0tM)
One more time: The Craptastic Mess died before Trump could even look it over. It never got out of Committee. His Twitter carping to give him something may not be helpful, or is that just for public consumption?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:56 AM (ujg0T)

367 Jesus, would not want to be in a foxhole with some of you people. Buck up...this is a marathon, not a sprint

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 30, 2017 09:56 AM (KlI/a)

368 After reading the Trump tweet, will Dana Perino:

[ ] Go pantyless today?
[ ] Look for comfort from Jasper?

Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 09:57 AM (nN3W/)

369 340 Pro-tip. The 30 some members of the Freedom Caucus do not constitute the majority of the base. It is a minority of Reps who shot this down, not the majority. And while you keep complaining about the 3 phases, only 2 of which are dependent on Congress since Phase 2 is entirely dependent on Price, come up with a better way of passing the legislation that can get through reconciliation because it can not pass through normal legislation. And don't say Mo Brooks one sentence bill. It won't pass. Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 02:51 PM (/tuJf) =================== Hey...I was talking about us. Stop obsessing over Congressional process. You're not talking to members of Congress. You're talking to a sliver of the base. We don't believe leadership. You seem to be saying that we should. Why? What has leadership done to make itself trustworthy with the base? What has leadership done to make itself untrustworthy with the base? Which list outweighs the other?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:57 AM (ELUpj)

370 Freedom Caucus haters drift close with the neverTrumpers. === "Hate" meh I simply want them to put up or shut up. If you got the solution then pull the gather a consensus. You are a legislator in a legislative body. Remember Trump was the idiot that had no government experience. He was the one who didn't understand how things work. The freedom caucus of awesome didn't have that excuse. I support their stated ideals I simply don't understand why they didn't do their jobs, moving the ball in that direction years ago. Our long game sucks.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 09:57 AM (fLMbU)

371 ::stops unbuckling pants:::

=========

This is not a circus, for chrissakes !! this is an auction.

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 09:57 AM (c6/9Q)

372 Achtung! Stielhandgrenate!

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 30, 2017 09:57 AM (FtrY1)

373 "Many men in positions of power won't be alone with a woman at work for that reason."

Shitfire, even if you're NOT in a "position of power", if you're a man in the workplace these days, you better not ever be alone with a woman even for one microsecond. Unless you're gay as a goose and prepared to prove that.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 09:58 AM (noWW6)

374 358 So, um-- was Trump expecting the standard "honeymoon" phase of the Presidency? Even Bush got one, IIRC, but that was a long time ago. Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 02:55 PM (u0s1P) ================= He got the same as Lincoln.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:58 AM (ELUpj)

375 True. And when "replace" was adopted, we lost. Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 30, 2017 02:55 PM (dPSy3)
Uh, sorry, but no. I know all too many people who are unhappy with ever rising premiums, far above any inflation. These people are self-employed and self-insured. Obamunistcare made things worse for them, in order to get everyone to want single-payer socialism. But that DOES NOT mean status quo ante was just fine, it wasn't.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 09:58 AM (ujg0T)

376 After reading the Trump tweet, will Dana Perino:

[ ] Go pantyless today?
[ ] Look for comfort from Jasper?
Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 02:57 PM


Embrace the possibilities of "and".

Posted by: RedMindBlueState[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 30, 2017 09:58 AM (p+Wdc)

377 Here is the awesome bill 3762 the only Obamacare repeal vote to get to Obama's desk. It is virtually identical to the current House bill. It is NOT a full repeal. It was done through reconciliation. http://tinyurl.com/mqd4p6f So why do some people keep saying they want that bill, which is for all intents the same bill, instead of this one?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 09:59 AM (/tuJf)

378 ::stops unbuckling pants::: ========= This is not a circus, for chrissakes !! this is an auction. Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 02:57 PM (c6/9Q) The Aristocrats!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 09:59 AM (493sH)

379 359 Mo Brooks introduced a one sentence repeal bill. No we can see who is serious about repeal and who isn't. Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:55 PM (4Utw1) ================= I called my Congressman and told his staffer that as a constituent of his that I expect him to support Mo's bill.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 09:59 AM (ELUpj)

380 I don't know if i was for or against the Ryan Bill. So many moving parts that it was hard to rate the pluses and minuses. And to a scary extent, they're GUESSING what the 1st and 2nd and 3rd order effects of the Bill would be. Healthcare has become a Rube Goldberg monstrosity that Victor Fronkensteen would not have brought to life. Sometimes i think that the pols love the complexity as it shields them being evaluated on the actual law.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 30, 2017 09:59 AM (oGRue)

381 And don't say Mo Brooks one sentence bill. It won't pass. Posted by: JackStraw If it won't, then CONGRESS isn't serious about repealing 404Care.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 09:59 AM (4Utw1)

382 Just turned on the Shep Show on Fox, and something is breaking about who Nunes spoke with.

Shep is clutching his pearls so it must be big.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (PY9jH)

383 This "freedom caucus" is like "freedom fries." These people are conning you.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (dPSy3)

384 Posted by: Nurse Ratched at March 30, 2017 02:48 PM (oQIG9) Really? You're kidding right? Fucking obtuse people.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (HJbDF)

385 Stray Voltage

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (M+Lyo)

386 Not for nothing , but we have to remember that the US is not as "conservative" as Rush Limbaugh or Mark Levin claim it is, and that many of us--including me , at times-- wish it were and that Trump was elected with the support of millions --in the "rust belt" and elsewhere--who would chafe at being labeled "conservative." The FC didn't win a national election, and they need to work with Trump--as he should at times--work with them.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (7uYFy)

387 After reading the Trump tweet, will Dana Perino:
[ ] Go pantyless today?
[ ] Look for comfort from Jasper?
Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 02:57 PM


Embrace the healing power of and.

Posted by: Horde Canonical Response, number 127.0.0.1 at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (DMUuz)

388 182 And away we go (and I'll just sit this one out.) Posted by: joncelli Here. Here's a cold beer. Sit back and watch. Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:24 PM (4Utw1) [Grabs beer from rickb223 with a nod of thanks] [Waddles away as quickly as possible]

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (RD7QR)

389 362 247 house republicans 39 of which make up the FC and somehow they feel the American people are onboard with their idea on how to replace Obamacare. Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 02:55 PM (lKyWE) ================= Somehow, those 39 feel that their constituents are on board with their idea on how to replace Obamacare. The other districts don't matter to them. They are behaving as they should.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (ELUpj)

390 most of them can't Posted by: Bob at NSA You're a dick if you don't share. Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:52 PM (4Utw1) --- o, he did

Posted by: Dick at NSA at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (oGRue)

391 Shitfire, even if you're NOT in a "position of power", if you're a man in the workplace these days, you better not ever be alone with a woman even for one microsecond. Unless you're gay as a goose and prepared to prove that. Unless you take the honey badger route and embrace the innuendo and whatever...

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (u0s1P)

392 omelette, eggs yawn

Posted by: Karmic Justice at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (qOaog)

393 Shep is clutching his pearls so it must be big. Better than him clutching my stones.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 30, 2017 10:00 AM (oVJmc)

394 The Aristocrats!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 30, 2017 02:59 PM (493sH)


Where ? Where !!?? (readies with a selfie stick)

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 10:01 AM (c6/9Q)

395 If it won't, then CONGRESS isn't serious about repealing 404Care. Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:59 PM (4Utw1)
Some of it isn't. That ditz so called Republican Senator from Maine comes to mind. Just because the House and Senate flipped does not mean that a good many Establicans are not still there.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 30, 2017 10:01 AM (ujg0T)

396 The Freedom Caucus is the fake True Con wing of the Status Quo party.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 30, 2017 10:01 AM (dPSy3)

397 Ann Coulter's idea isn't bad. Basically, it's this- 1) Do nothing about Obamacare, leave it as the big fucking worthless mass of crap that it is. 2) Make the selling of health insurance legal again with maximum market openness in terms of cost, plans, and benefits across all state lines. Read her article, but basically it's a win-win-win because- a) Greedy Democrats a-holes don't get to whine and march in the street that their Obamacare is being taken away. It's your's suckers, sign up, b) The rest of us people with a couple of brain cells to rub together- will choose which plan affords us the kind of health insurance we desire from the myriad of plans which will come available. c) The Cowardly Jizzrags of the GOP won't take Obamacare away so no "blame" will attach them. Easy Peasy.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 30, 2017 10:01 AM (NyJwR)

398 He got the same as Lincoln. Point. And largely the same reasons, or meta-reasons, IMO.

Posted by: Clara Peller at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (u0s1P)

399 382 And don't say Mo Brooks one sentence bill. It won't pass. Posted by: JackStraw If it won't, then CONGRESS isn't serious about repealing 404Care. Posted by: rickb223 at March 30, 2017 02:59 PM (4Utw1) ================= Personally, I'd just like to see the votes.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (ELUpj)

400 The good news for people who blame the "treasonous" Freedom Caucus for breaking ranks on Rynocare... Geraldo Rivera stands with you. https://news.grabien.com/story-geraldo-accuses-freedom-caucus-committing-treason-opposing-r Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 02:37 PM (O7MnT) Well if Geraldo and Trump are against us, we can't be wrong, right?

Posted by: Draki at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (Y0byY)

401 This just seemed like an unforced error on the part of Trump and his people. The blame for the healthcare debacle clearly fell on the shoulders of Paul "I'm a Wonk not a leader" Ryan, who introduced a bill without making sure it was going to pass before introducing it (and in my opinion, knew repeal/replace would never pass because of the optics of people losing their insurance). Okay, now I'm going to be all stickler for process. Why is no one discussing Scalise's role in this? Because that's the job of the whip. The Whip is the one who is supposed to be sure that the votes are lined up and then go to the Speaker and tell the Speaker okay we're good to go. From what I can see, Scalise utterly failed at his job.

Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (mf5HN)

402 Democrats constantly claim that the Clinton administration, particularly his second term, was as near to an Earthly paradise as we'll ever experience.

It's baffling that Republicans don't just grab that premise and run with it. Put forth a bill which reverts health insurance laws to the status quo ante of 1998, back when everything was so awesomely wonderful.

Worth it just for the red faces and indignant stammering from the other side of the aisle.

Which is why it won't happen. "Collegiality" must be preserved.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (noWW6)

403 A BBC interviewer speaks with Marine LePen and she takes none of his merde. https://youtu.be/8Sfhc_e5P88

Posted by: McCool at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (lWCRE)

404 War. War never changes...

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or TEXIT) at March 30, 2017 10:02 AM (5G252)

405 If Trump lets Obamacare explode, won't this force Democrats to come to the table and be cooperative?

If so, won't this enable him to put together a better bill, a bill the Democrats will pretty much have to at least consider, or the takers who vote for him will have a shit fit because they're losing one of their "benefits?"

So really, is this not passing a bad thing?

Posted by: shibumi at March 30, 2017 10:03 AM (FkAXz)

406 Next Valentines Day I am going to spell out "I LOVE YOU WINONA, MARRY ME, SINCERELY YOURS BANANA SPLITS GUY" in baboon red asses. Hopefully very bright (romantic) red. Can someone help me estimate how many baboons I'll need? Tanks!!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 30, 2017 10:03 AM (2pucm)

407 It is a bit of a mystery that Trump and the Republican Leadership are going all-on on a bill with 17% public support. But, yeah, we're the dumb ones for wanting something better.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 10:03 AM (O7MnT)

408 o, he did Posted by: Dick at NSA at March 30, 2017 03:00 PM (oGRue) _________________________ I'll say...

Posted by: Mark at NSA at March 30, 2017 10:03 AM (HSmrB)

409 Trump should hold a rally (stadium sized) and invite every repub member of congress to it and let each member get up and give a very brief (one minute) opinion on Ocare to let them know how the crowd reacts to them.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 10:03 AM (Fmupd)

410 o, he did Posted by: Dick at NSA Dammit NSA! We wanna see AtC's red ass!

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i][/u] at March 30, 2017 10:03 AM (4Utw1)

411 Just a reminder: thess little blurbs with the red numbers are COMMENTS and not POSTS. While you may POST a comment, it's still a comment.

Posted by: Kevin C at March 30, 2017 10:04 AM (9khZC)

412 Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 02:54 PM (Mq0tM) Yeah that's exactly what I meant.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 30, 2017 10:04 AM (HJbDF)

413 Shep is clutching his pearls so it must be big. Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 03:00 PM (PY9jH) ------------- Let me know when they are resorting to canibalism. I'll turn on the TV then.

Posted by: Lily (formerly from HotAir now from AoSHQ) assassin in the night at March 30, 2017 10:04 AM (eSu22)

414 If you look at it as a negotiation, Trump is giving himself and the HFC cover to do a full repeal.

Remember, this is the guy who has said he'll walk away from a deal just to come back to get a better deal.

Or, you could take the conventional DC wisdom--which has been wrong over and over regarding Trump--and light your hair on fire "cause he's not gonna repeal Obamacare!!!1!!"

Posted by: RoyalOil at March 30, 2017 10:04 AM (ZQpd0)

415 Just turned on the Shep Show on Fox, and something is breaking about who Nunes spoke with.

Shep is clutching his pearls so it must be big.
Posted by: Jane D'oh


They have nothing.
They have not had anything.
They will not get anything.
Nothing can make them shut up.


Posted by: E Depluribus Unum [i] at March 30, 2017 10:04 AM (ZFUt7)

416 There are some who would say that this is some clever 5-d Chess strategy of bringing the GOPe around to his side, but I am pretty sure its just him throwing his usual tantrum when someone doesn't go his way. I fully expect him to eventually clean house of Bannon etc and get people his daughter likes better in place, when things aren't going the way he wanted fast enough. Still, better than the alternative. We've always known this was gonna suck, just not suck as much as President Hillary.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 30, 2017 10:05 AM (39g3+)

417 After reading the Trump tweet, will Dana Perino: [ ] Go pantyless today? [ ] Look for comfort from Jasper? Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 02:57 PM Embrace the possibilities of "and". Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 30, 2017 02:58 PM (p+Wdc) ............ She's going to need more peanut butter.

Posted by: wth at March 30, 2017 10:05 AM (HgMAr)

418 omelette, eggs

==========

*limited menu*  Do you have any gluten free chickens ?

Posted by: runner at March 30, 2017 10:05 AM (c6/9Q)

419 >>You seem to be saying that we should. >>Why? Because unlike some, I actually was paying attention last February when 3762 passed through reconciliation and right after Obama vetoed it Ryan announced that this was the process they would use to begin to repeal and replace Obamacare if they got a Republican President. That Republican President is fully onboard with the process and he put in Price as his head of the HHS who is also fully onboard with the process since he is one of the guys who put 3762 in the first place. And he's got Mulvaney, a founder of the Freedom Caucus as his Director of OMB and he is also fully onboard with the bill and the process. Saying stop obsessing about the process is like saying "I want my team to with the game but I have no idea what the rules are so they should throw a bomb on every play!" not realizing that throwing a bomb is not allowed and even it was your team has shitty wide receivers who always drop the ball. I trust Trump to get it done. I trust Price and I know Mulvaney is building a budget to support Trump's agenda that is based on gutting Obamacare. They've only been saying this since inauguration day.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 10:05 AM (/tuJf)

420 "Next Valentines Day I am going to spell out "I LOVE YOU WINONA, MARRY ME, SINCERELY YOURS BANANA SPLITS GUY" in baboon red asses. Hopefully very bright (romantic) red. Can someone help me estimate how many baboons I'll need? Thanks!!!" -Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 30, 2017 03:03 PM (2pucm) You spelled "Mollie Hemingway" incorrectly. You also mentioned Red-Assed Baboons, instead of lilacs.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1) ([b]T[/b]) [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at March 30, 2017 10:05 AM (6gk0M)

421 Dammit NSA! We wanna see AtC's red ass! --- my cheeks were also red after seeing that.

Posted by: Dick at NSA at March 30, 2017 10:06 AM (oGRue)

422 I am pretty sure its just him throwing his usual tantrum when someone doesn't go his way. I fully expect him to eventually clean house of Bannon etc and get people his daughter likes better in place, when things aren't going the way he wanted fast enough. I think that's reasonable to expect. And replace all those Bannon people with Goldman-Sachs guys.

Posted by: V the K at March 30, 2017 10:06 AM (O7MnT)

423 Hey...I was talking about us. Stop obsessing over Congressional process. You're not talking to members of Congress. You're talking to a sliver of the base. Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 02:57 PM (ELUpj) Which is why I am not commenting much on this. This is a sliver of the base and it wants to vent and yell. That's fine, I totally understand that, there are lots of times I want to yell (and in the car on the freeway I do). Congress, the GOP section, has to pull together if anything is to be done to wound Obamacare. If a faction is not going to do anything that isn't it's uncompromised position, then Obamacare stays in its current hideous glory. That's my take. No carry on - and I *know* you will.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Has Got it, Yeah Baby It's Got It at March 30, 2017 10:06 AM (hLRSq)

424 Just a reminder: thess little blurbs with the red numbers are COMMENTS and not POSTS. While you may POST a comment, it's still a comment. You can post a comment, but don't comment your post!

Posted by: George Carlin at March 30, 2017 10:06 AM (u0s1P)

425 --Hollowpoint *sniff* Phew Trolls smell REALLY bad when they marinate in their own self pity juices for a few months.

Posted by: Mortimer, FINISH HER! at March 30, 2017 10:06 AM (fLMbU)

426 I think I'll go clear my head at Sam's Club.  Hopefully, there won't be the usual child abuse in the parking lot.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 10:06 AM (PY9jH)

427 It's baffling that Republicans don't just grab that premise and run with it. Put forth a bill which reverts health insurance laws to the status quo ante of 1998, back when everything was so awesomely wonderful. I agree, I love to bring this up: if pe-Obamacare was such a hell hole, why do you love the Clinton and first Obama terms as president? Do you think it was so hellish and evil back then?

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 30, 2017 10:07 AM (39g3+)

428 shep smith: the painful, oozing, rectal itch of news journalism.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 10:07 AM (NnhWY)

429 Dammit NSA! We wanna see AtC's red ass! --- OK, who spunked the SCIF?

Posted by: Earl at NSA at March 30, 2017 10:07 AM (oGRue)

430 Shemp looks like he's filling up his jizz sock quickly. He must be sitting on some Trump damaging news.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 30, 2017 10:07 AM (nN3W/)

431 Nood. Phew!

Posted by: Lord Chancellor johnd01 at March 30, 2017 10:07 AM (ukNFU)

432 shep smith: the painful, oozing, rectal itch of news journalism.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 30, 2017 03:07 PM (NnhWY)



Shep is just aching for some alone time on the beach with TFG.  Seriously.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 30, 2017 10:08 AM (PY9jH)

433 38 If you embarrass the president, speaker and a majority of the Republican caucus, not to mention yourself on the first major legislative act, one you've been passing bills on for 7 years, in Washington you can expect someone's balls to be banging on your chin. Posted by: Marcus T at March 30, 2017 02:03 PM (9IM0p) No. Try again when you're not pushing Gun Control and Expanded Entitlements for Illegals.

Posted by: Hikaru at March 30, 2017 10:08 AM (CMbMd)

434 Thanks for the support, Kevin C., but I didn't say Trump was losing it. Or single out anyone else for praise or condemnation. I have, however, ad nauseam (as is my wont) been outlining a very doable and integrated and politically well-engineered approach since before the debacle a week ago. * repeal via reconciliation that which was passed via reconciliation (no germanness/process issue in the Senate) - doable with 51 Senate votes - this also still would provide whatever Budget Act scorable elements were desired for separate tax cuts * have a companion regular bill passed by the House doing the urgent repair work that falls outside reconciliation (esp. removal of "mimimum essential benefits") - not dismantling the subsidized O-care "market" (tiny, shrinking, unsustainable, and unpopular), neccessarily * the stand-alone bill does *not* have to usher in the millenium of rational, market-based medical financing and a return to real insurance markets - it just has to, at a minimum, take us back to 2014 (a status quo that even people here casually dismiss as unacceptable yet which was very acceptable compared to today's situation wherein 10-20 million have been severely harmed by O-care) * doing it this way woulda/shoulda/coulda done enough to demonstrate leadership seriousness about real change to win FC support * it's not about the abstract, paper calculations and contents of bills so much as *credibility* - the GOP leadership has very little credibility with people seriously interested in change - the suggested approach would tie both useless "moderates" and others to actual efforts for real relief * Medicaid - and even the tiny, shrinking, unsustainable, unpopular O-care fake "market" - can/should be broken off and treated separately. Separate votes, separate bills. The incredle monstrosity of O-care should not be allowed to hog-tie a diverse GOP caucus as its worst elements are unwound. Let the handful of GOP sorts who love them some unsustainable, ineffective Medicaid make their case (or get their kabuki "gee, I tried, really!" votes that way - also a politically cynical yet savvy approach)

Posted by: rhomboid at March 30, 2017 10:09 AM (+wjl1)

435 "If Trump lets Obamacare explode, won't this force Democrats to come to the table and be cooperative?" I never saw RyanCare getting approved by the Senate right now. If it failed there, the blame could be better hung on Chuck and Nancy and the Ds. To me, this was always the Long Game. Trump said as much. Better politics to let OCare fail, then deal with a crisis where the Ds can't be so obstructionist.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 30, 2017 10:10 AM (SIY7D)

436 The FC didn't win a national election, and they need to work with Trump--as he should at times--work with them. Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 03:00 PM (7uYFy) You're right. They were elected by their districts and states to represent their respective constituencies. So, again I ask: Do you want a democratic republic (or at least the remaining fig leaf of one), or do you suggest we abandon that and required everyone to support the monarchy or face treason charges? Do you not understand that the fundamental concept is that someone from Flyover City, Kansas has the same fundamental rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as someone from NYC? Do you not comprehend that the needs, way of live and desires of someone in South Dakota might not be identical to those of a Los Angeles resident? Southern CA has comfortable weather year round and people there think that coats and snow tires are unnecessary and damage the environment. Since the population of Southern CA exceeds that of several states in the upper midwest, let's make Southern CA's will the law of the land because they are the majority.

Posted by: Damiano at March 30, 2017 10:10 AM (Mq0tM)

437

 

Somehow, those 39 feel that their constituents are on board with their idea on how to replace Obamacare.

The other districts don't matter to them.

They are behaving as they should.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 03:00 PM (ELUpj)

 

 

And I would fine with that if they were saying this bill doesn't do what we told our constituents we'd   do.  But they're not, they're saying the American people which includes the districts that don't matter to them

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 10:10 AM (lKyWE)

438 420 Because unlike some, I actually was paying attention last February when 3762 passed through reconciliation and right after Obama vetoed it Ryan announced that this was the process they would use to begin to repeal and replace Obamacare if they got a Republican President. That Republican President is fully onboard with the process and he put in Price as his head of the HHS who is also fully onboard with the process since he is one of the guys who put 3762 in the first place. And he's got Mulvaney, a founder of the Freedom Caucus as his Director of OMB and he is also fully onboard with the bill and the process. Saying stop obsessing about the process is like saying "I want my team to with the game but I have no idea what the rules are so they should throw a bomb on every play!" not realizing that throwing a bomb is not allowed and even it was your team has shitty wide receivers who always drop the ball. I trust Trump to get it done. I trust Price and I know Mulvaney is building a budget to support Trump's agenda that is based on gutting Obamacare. They've only been saying this since inauguration day. Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 03:05 PM (/tuJf) =================== It's largely what you've been saying, but packaged differently and slightly more convincing. May I suggest that you start arguing along these lines?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 30, 2017 10:10 AM (ELUpj)

439 Here is the final votes for 3762, the reconciliation bill that passed last year. Note that guys like Meadow and Jordan and Brooks voted FOR this bill last year. They are the people who have changed so you should be asking them what changed. http://tinyurl.com/lx5zmb2

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 10:11 AM (/tuJf)

440 Why is no one discussing Scalise's role in this? Because that's the job of the whip. The Whip is the one who is supposed to be sure that the votes are lined up and then go to the Speaker and tell the Speaker okay we're good to go. From what I can see, Scalise utterly failed at his job. Posted by: alexthechick - rrraaawwwrrr at March 30, 2017 03:02 PM (mf5HN) Might be because Trump and Ryan want to publicly show that they are not scary conservatives but the squishes that they really are. It would benefit Trump later to humanize him and make him appear a centrist.

Posted by: Draki at March 30, 2017 10:12 AM (Y0byY)

441 Ryancare: -prices increasing for the next three years -keeps illegals in the program Sorry to keep harping on this, but most people have health insurance through their jobs. This doesn't affect them. For a family, the self-employed are already paying the same for healthcare as for a mortgage payment. That will increase in three years. Not what Trump campaigned on. Posted by: shibumi at March 30, 2017 02:51 PM (FkAXz) First Question. How does this bill keep "illegals" in the bill? Does it say if you are here illegally, you are entitled to government paid health insurance? Or does being here illegally , a crime for which the Trump administration is whole heartedly turned the Federal law enforcement 180 degrees into enfocing arrests and deportations and is now threatening states and cities to get on board with end up getting you not just deported , but also charged with benefit fraud etc. Two, the repetition of the myth that because one get's insurance from their employer, that staged repeals of Obamacare has no effect on them. As myself and others have said over and over, our policies we have from our employers have had benefits cut drastically, our premiums have doubled and tripled, and our deductibles are in the $6,000-$10,000 range. People who are employed in the private sector are overwhelmingly cost sharing in premiums with their employers, to the tune of hundreds of dollars of a month. Also, please note that out of the 30 plus members of the Freedom Caucus, it is 8-10 who have hung up the ryan bill, not the entire caucus. Like any group, there is always a small group of folks who want to demand their way or nothing, and once they find they can strangle the group, they will do so ad infnitum. Someone who knows the exact wording on the bill can let me know if this is incorrect, I am going by numerous financial wonks on FBN who have said that the ryan bill reduced tax burdens by $1T, which made the Tax reform bill easier to pass because it didn't need to cut taxes out of more controversial programs. to reach it's goals. Now it does.

Posted by: Jen at March 30, 2017 10:12 AM (m8stq)

442 My lion is so gridded he looks like a checker baord.

Posted by: Juan Valdez at March 30, 2017 10:12 AM (F9rT3)

443 I don't want to say that we'd be much happier if we had daily gun and cute pet threads... but I think we might be much happier if we had daily gun and cute pet threads.

Posted by: shibumi at March 30, 2017 10:14 AM (FkAXz)

444 Just reading the comments on this blog makes me realize why congress is in the shape it's in.

Posted by: Soona at March 30, 2017 10:14 AM (Fmupd)

445 "And replace all those Bannon people with Goldman-Sachs guys."

I harp on about the new "innovation" office, but the reality is that there isn't a single individual working there who is properly describable as a conservative or a libertarian.

And yep, they've got not one but two Goldman Sachs vampire squids.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 10:14 AM (noWW6)

446 "How does this bill keep 'illegals' in the bill? Does it say if you are here illegally, you are entitled to government paid health insurance?"

There were specific policy provisions in the early drafts of the bill which were meant to detect the applications of illegals for subsidized coverage, and to deny those applications.

These provisions were quietly removed late in the bill's progress.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 30, 2017 10:16 AM (noWW6)

447 378 Here is the awesome bill 3762 the only Obamacare repeal vote to get to Obama's desk. It is virtually identical to the current House bill. It is NOT a full repeal. It was done through reconciliation. http://tinyurl.com/mqd4p6f So why do some people keep saying they want that bill, which is for all intents the same bill, instead of this one? Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 02:59 PM (/tuJf) Because it's only eight pages genius ... not over 120. That's around 110 less pages to obfuscate and generally hide bullshit. Because it's already passed once. There are literally enough people in both the House and Senate on record as a YEA to pass it again. Because it's written much more simply. Most of it is straight eliminations of parts of the ACA. Say it Jack ... a 120 page bill is not the same as an 8 page bill. Say. It.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 10:18 AM (tFWWx)

448 >>May I suggest that you start arguing along these lines? Why? I've given links that prove that this bill and process is almost identical to last years attempt. I've given links that show it is mostly the Freedom Caucus people who voted for the bill last year but have no changed to no. I've given links that show that at least 4 Republican Senators won't vote for any bill that doesn't have a Medicaid expansion component so the filibuster is irrelevant. I've talked about the legislative process and how this is being done under a 2017 budget resolution and only this bill can be done under that process and nothing on the 2018 agenda can be done until that budget resolution is passed. I've shown how significant tax reform is dependent on gutting Obamacare because of CBO scoring rules. Hell, we even now have Trump pointing out that it is the FC holding this thing up and not moderates. The reason Obamacare was passed in 3 phases is because they also needed budget reconciliation to get some of the financial underpinnings that allow Obamacare to exist passed. Gut them and it collapses so it isn't a matter of trust, Obamacare would be dead. And all I keep hearing is I'm a RINO and what we need is a straight repeal which has never gotten through Congress and won't now. So what makes you think changing how I present things in a way you rind more appealing is going to make any difference?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 10:19 AM (/tuJf)

449
There were specific policy provisions in the early drafts of the bill which were meant to detect the applications of illegals for subsidized coverage, and to deny those applications.

These provisions were quietly removed late in the bill's progress.
--

I stand corrected.

Posted by: shibumi at March 30, 2017 10:20 AM (FkAXz)

450 440 Here is the final votes for 3762, the reconciliation bill that passed last year. Then put it up again Jack. The same bill. Let's see what happens. Not the 110 page longer bill. The. Exact. Same. Bill. You know ... like I've been saying all this time.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 10:21 AM (tFWWx)

451 Ryancare: -prices increasing for the next three years -keeps illegals in the program Sorry to keep harping on this, but most people have health insurance through their jobs. This doesn't affect them. For a family, the self-employed are already paying the same for healthcare as for a mortgage payment. That will increase in three years. Not what Trump campaigned on. Posted by: shibumi at March 30, 2017 02:51 PM (FkAXz) Yes, RynoCare is an economic budget bill. Bust your budget and stifle the entrepreneur bill.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 10:21 AM (e3JIL)

452

 

Say it Jack ... a 120 page bill is not the same as an 8 page bill. Say. It.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 03:18 PM (tFWWx)

 

 

I agree they're not the same the eight page bill was a fairytale.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 10:21 AM (lKyWE)

453 Say it Jack ... a 120 page bill is not the same as an 8 page bill. Say. It. Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 03:18 PM (tFWWx) I agree they're not the same the eight page bill was a fairytale. Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 03:21 PM (lKyWE) Put it up again. Lets find out.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 10:23 AM (tFWWx)

454 >>Then put it up again Jack. The same bill. Let's see what happens. >>Not the 110 page longer bill. The. Exact. Same. Bill. >>You know ... like I've been saying all this time. Why, sure it was a shorter bill because everyone on the planet with an IQ above 0 knew it was never going to pass. But it is substantially less detailed and destructive to Obamacare than this one. And the Freedom Caucus voted for it and you keep saying that was a repeal bill. So why did the FC change? It was no more a straight repeal bill than this one and if that is all the FC is going to vote for then they won't vote for this one either. You know, like I've been saying all the time.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 10:26 AM (/tuJf)

455 The real threat is what Coulter points out.

You can't buy health insurance you want, it is illegal now.  You have to buy the super deluxe plan which "covers" 50 things you don't need.  That is not insurance, that is the threat to take insurance you want unless you fund two illegals and a sex change and counseling for dope fiends.  It is a giant tax you must pay to get your normal insurance.

On top of that, the feds offer subsidies, but that money goes to insurance companies.  Insurers act as proxies for full government care, and they are guaranteed profit.

Apparently someone is holding the golden shower pictures and Trump is now owned by whomever.  The administration is growing in establishment types, including Ivanka.  The wall is beginning to sound like high-speed rail.  But at least some good changes have happened for coal and SCOTUS and against other malicious regulations. 

I hope he is getting something in trade for trashing his base.

Posted by: illiniwek at March 30, 2017 10:28 AM (TmCOq)

456

 

Put it up again. Lets find out.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 03:23 PM (tFWWx)

 

 

 

I wouln't be against that, but I doubt it would even get full support from the FC

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 10:28 AM (lKyWE)

457 Is the Freedom Caucus actually for "freedom" or is it just clever labeling? Beyond tanking the Ryan healthcare bill, which may have been a good move, I'm not sure exactly what they've done. Perhaps I'm uninformed. I've seen a lot of mislabeling in the past 8-10 years.

Posted by: Alex #11 at March 30, 2017 10:30 AM (EUMt/)

458 Just assuming that the Russians have hacked PDTs Twitter account and have set WWIII afire within the GOP.... It is the Russians?! Right???!

Posted by: 'Cold Civil War'. That seems apt. at March 30, 2017 10:31 AM (oBuXO)

459 Posted by: Alex #11 at March 30, 2017 03:30 PM (EUMt/) A Strawman.

Posted by: gNewt at March 30, 2017 10:31 AM (e3JIL)

460 Why, sure it was a shorter bill because everyone on the planet with an IQ above 0 knew it was never going to pass. But it is substantially less detailed and destructive to Obamacare than this one. But it DID pass. And I've got a copy up right now. It's extremely detailed. And simple. But if it's "substantially less detailed and destructive to Obamacare than this one" ... then it really can't at the same time be "substantially the same" as this new bill ... now can it ? You're full of shit Jack.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 10:34 AM (tFWWx)

461 Also, I find myself in agreement with JackStraw, which is a bit of a surprise as he was nowhere near the Trump supporter I was/am (unless I'm mis-remembering, in which case apologies). To me this is just another in the litany of examples of republican representatives not knowing how to represent. The "Freedom" caucus can only hold up any bill, and as of yet they haven't shown any initiative in actually horse trading to get what they want, which is the essence of representative democracy. Trump is merely working them. Whether that leads to good or bad results I don't know, but it's how it works.

Posted by: Alex #11 at March 30, 2017 10:35 AM (EUMt/)

462 >>But it DID pass. And I've got a copy up right now. It's extremely detailed. And simple. >>But if it's "substantially less detailed and destructive to Obamacare than this one" ... then it really can't at the same time be "substantially the same" as this new bill ... now can it ? >>You're full of shit Jack. And you're an idiot. The FC flip flopped on supporting a reconciliation bill that did more to gut Obamacare than the one they voted for and you can't seem to either understand that or admit it. I'm done with you.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 30, 2017 10:37 AM (/tuJf)

463 Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 01:11 PM (7uYFy) --- Nope Trump is a Narcissist ! as I have a good friend who is one, when something they are involved in goes wrong, it ca n be their fault so they have to find a scapegoat

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 30, 2017 10:40 AM (y3aQB)

464 I'm done with you I'm not done with you though, Jack. We've made big progress. You just admitted that the two bills ARE NOT substantially the same. Now you're saying the new bill does MORE to gut ObamaCare. We'll take this up again the next time the topic comes up.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 10:41 AM (tFWWx)

465 Good. The HFC is about as pragmatic and effective as you would expect out of a group of doctrinaire libertarians from safe, gerrymandered congressional districts..

Posted by: KHAN's Other Wife at March 30, 2017 10:42 AM (WSTrb)

466 And then there were none.

Posted by: Glenn John at March 30, 2017 10:50 AM (LilNs)

467 The establishment candidates got blown the f out during the primary. A lot of Trump's support came from people who support the freedom caucus... none of it came from the establishment. The establishment candidate couldn't crack 20%. This is not a good side for Trump to take.

Posted by: reality man at March 30, 2017 10:56 AM (xOBRH)

468 So all we get is Gorsuch, which restores the court to it's iffy wobbly status. No Obamacare repeal, no wall, no tax bill, and PDT will make for a loss of the senate and maybe the house in about a year and a half. Tell me again what I voted for.

Posted by: Les Kinetic at March 30, 2017 11:08 AM (mTCYz)

469

 

 

It's extremely detailed. And simple.

 

That's a good one

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 11:20 AM (lKyWE)

470 I would call my congressentities office and ask for passage of Ocare repeal if I thought they would not instantly die from hysterical laughter.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 30, 2017 11:26 AM (FtrY1)

471 Go ahead work with the Dems, you f**king moron. They're all you're going to have to work with after 2018 anyway. And of course: you won't be working on anything but real estate deals after 2020.

Posted by: Lawrence Larson at March 30, 2017 12:53 PM (d/r2I)

472 37 ..and people wondered why, as bad as Clinton was, I HAD to vote for Alfred E. Neuman. Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at March 30, 2017 01:08 PM (QUhLG) Wow. What principle. You voted for Hillary. Reading is fundamental. I voted for Alfred E. Neuman. Why? Because there were much bigger idiots running.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at March 30, 2017 01:01 PM (QUhLG)

473 I knew Trump was a vindictive egomaniac & The Bill had 17% support. That's of U. S. Citizens support. We need more Freedom Caucus members.

Posted by: Carol at March 30, 2017 02:08 PM (sj3Ax)

474 I'm still accepting campaign contributions. Send them via Red State, NR, and the Weekly Standard. Have the memo line as "Analpundit's buddy".

Posted by: Egg McMuffin at March 30, 2017 02:19 PM (nlbfN)

475 I don't understand why people can't get this. The Trump Coalition consists of Republicans, who want anything right of socialism, which Trump still represents, and a lot of independent working class voters that don't identify at all with Republicans and expect to be taken care of, especially when it comes to health care. You want to continue with majorities? Make that coalition work. Given the demographic trends, there is no other option. Fidelity to conservative principles--ones I happen to believe in--are great but will result in permanent minority status. Trump is basically a compassionate conservative on policy but a crass @hole in delivery. That's not a surprise to anyone who paid attention during the campaign.

Posted by: Martian Wonder at March 30, 2017 02:24 PM (h+Yef)

476 And Trump will beat the Freedom Caucus.

But as I said on the previous thread, I think he's just making a play for them to come to the table to get something done. And while i wouldn't count myself among those who think that Trump is playing 12th Dimensional Chess, I do think he has something up his sleeve.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 30, 2017 01:11 PM (7uYFy)


First... no he won't beat them. They are more popular in their district than he is and, more importantly, they are in the right.



Second, Trump is not playing 12 dimensional chess... he is being an ass.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 30, 2017 02:30 PM (FTXAT)

477 For their part the Freedom Caucus needs to understand that, while I am glad they stood firm against the BarkyCare chair-shuffling, they are the ones (not all but most) who folded like cheap suits and helped elect the lowlife POS Ryan to the Speakership, which is really what led to this phenomenally asinine attempt to save BarkyCare and call it a "repeal".

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 30, 2017 02:05 PM (zc3Db)


And what other result did you think would happen? They did not have the power to put one of their own in and Ryan was making noises like he had learned from Boehner's experience. Which moderate do you think would be doing anything different than Ryan?

Posted by: redbanzai at March 30, 2017 02:35 PM (FTXAT)

478 Put it up again. Lets find out.
Posted by: ScoggDog at March 30, 2017 03:23 PM (tFWWx)



I wouln't be against that, but I doubt it would even get full support from the FC

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 30, 2017 03:28 PM (lKyWE)


They all voted for it the first time so you would be wrong. I would prefer repeal but I could support this as an interim measure as it is a complete defunding with no extra provisions or pork added in... as a bonus, it removes funding for the medicaid expansion instead of continuing it and forever rewarding the states that chose to screw the taxpayers over.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 30, 2017 02:40 PM (FTXAT)

479 #26......yo mama sure didn`t raise no ignoramus....well said...

Posted by: rocky mattioli at March 30, 2017 02:57 PM (nkfDI)

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What colour is a green orange?




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