March 31, 2011

Trump: Maybe Obama's Sitting on the Birth Certificate Because It Says He's a Muslim
— Ace

I'm starting to get a little worried by this.

My old position was that this was Obama's problem and that it really couldn't hurt Republicans because the question "Then why doesn't he just release the damn thing?" would strike most people as a reasonable one.

My new worry is that he's pushing this so hard it will force others to take and re-take and re-re-take positions on this, which isn't really in the party's interest.

I know people who are convinced he's an alien (and yeah, he would be an alien, if neither natural-born nor naturalized, and he definitely was never naturalized) think this is all to the good because at the end of the day there's a big payoff.

I don't. I think he has the birth certificate and, if pressed, will release it, which will damage (although not fatally, but still) anyone who's made an issue of it.

Mainstreaming a theory is only a good thing if that theory is actually true. If it's false, and provably so, it's damaging to be among those mainstreaming it.

As of yet I still think, overall, this is pretty harmless, because most in the GOP aren't rising to the bait (whether it's Trump's bait or Obama's sucker-punch bait). And it's never a bad thing to have someone off flanking you to your right; by comparison, you can claim to be "moderate," even if you're pretty rightist.

Still, I'm worried that if this gains some traction and politicians see a (short-term) advantage to pushing this position, it will wind up burning them.

Posted by: Ace at 06:39 AM | Comments (314)
Post contains 288 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Followed the BC issue on various blogs. My guess is that those most scornful and hateful toward the birthers are implying something inadvertently.  That is, that the president be actually eligible by birth is a very important issue.  If it's proven he's not, I expect they'll be dismissing sniffily such redneck concerns as eligibility by birth.
In fact, as I think about it, the anti-birther crowd is so harsh about this that it seems they may suspect they have something to hide and wish to discredit anyone who mentions it, and, if and when, the subject entirely if it goes wrong for them.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at March 31, 2011 06:43 AM (wxHHM)

2

Okay here is a stupid question. I've never really followed this issue since Phil Berg of the Hillary campaign made it an issue, but Obama had to show his birth certificate to someone  in government right?

There are two requirments to be president, if i remember correctly. You have to be over 35 and born in America. So I am assuming there is a government agency that verifies this stuff right? We don't just take peoples word for it, right?

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 06:43 AM (wuv1c)

3

If Trump had the slightest fucking clue what he was talking about before going on his drama-whoring tour, he'd know that the "long form" birth certificate of the era does not include a field for religion.

I don't know what's more frustrating- that Trump is injecting himself into the race at all, or that there are idiots who take him seriously.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 06:44 AM (SY2Kh)

4 On the plus side, state legislatures are starting to propose/implement legislation that will confirm the validity of birth certificates of presidential aspirants; so some of the legal checking will be done with or without the blessing of other candidates.

Obama may end up withdrawing on his own... or hiring better forgers.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2011 06:45 AM (swuwV)

5 The safest position is to not opine on what his birth certificate says, but to merely state that you take the President at his word. 

T-Paw said he thinks he was born here.  I simply would not say that.  I'd put it all on Obama's integrity.  People can draw their own conclusions about Obama's refusal to release the b.c. (and other records). 

I think it is safe to also say, if pressed, that as a candidate you will release your b.c. and other records.  I also think it's fine to express frustration that this sort of thing isn't just handled routinely up-front when someone becomes a candidate, adding that you will ensure it's not an issue with your own candidacy by being forthcoming. 

If badgered by a reporter, I would turn it around and ask him/her why he/she is so concerned about the President's birth certificate. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 06:45 AM (pW2o8)

6 Maybe he is a hermaphrodite

Posted by: Jackhole at March 31, 2011 06:45 AM (+qHxi)

7 I just wish this entire issue would go away. Even if the came out with a birth certificate that said he was an English citizen would he be impeached?

No

Would the courts give anyone other than McCain standing to sue?

No, and probably not McCain either.

If they did would McCain sue?

No

It is a fucking lost cause and we need to concentrate on getting his ass out of office in 2012.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2011 06:46 AM (M9Ie6)

8 I am more concerned about why he has 3 (?) SS numbers.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 06:46 AM (penCf)

9 I got no problems with Donald Trump pushing this.  The guy's got the right mixture of low credibility and above average intellect where it really is all on him to go full steam ahead on pressing it.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2011 06:46 AM (TpXEI)

10

Mallamutt's Therom of When Not To Give A Shit:

Attention Whore A (Trump) prattles on to Attention Whore B (O'Really) about Attention Whore C (Obama) about Controversial Issue 1 (Birth Certificate) = Find the Remote.

or.......

A + B+C - 1 = STFU

 

Posted by: Prof. Mallamutt, good at math...still can't balance his checkbook at March 31, 2011 06:47 AM (OWjjx)

11 I subscribe to om Maguire's "JustOneMinute" scenat rio - the birth certificate issue has more to do with potentially embarrasing information - custody issues Muslim - which, hey, the father might have insisted on that being on the certificate ... does that mean anything? No. But the decision to not release the information does. Remember - the chuckleheads that voted for Obama did so on the basis of 1 autobiography, a one page doctor's note, and the equivalent of some term papers Obama wrote and published as campaign issues. . An actual "Birth Certificate" might show that this God was born with feet of clay. .

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 31, 2011 06:47 AM (h6mPj)

12

"I know people who are convinced he's an alien (and yeah, he would be an alien, if neither natural-born nor naturalized, and he definitely was never naturalized) think this is all to the good because at the end of the day there's a big payoff."

He might be an alien. I have a state of teh art LCD TV and he looks green on it all the time. It's just him not everybody else.

Posted by: Jackhole at March 31, 2011 06:47 AM (+qHxi)

13 Bear in mind that Trump is PT Barnum with hair plugs, and act accordingly. Problem solved.

Posted by: joncelli at March 31, 2011 06:47 AM (RD7QR)

14 Still, I'm worried that if this gains some traction and politicians see a (short-term) advantage to pushing this position, it will wind up burning them.

We'll do whatever harms the GOP the most!!

Posted by: The Predictable GOP at March 31, 2011 06:47 AM (VcPAo)

15 I've never really followed this issue since Phil Berg of the Hillary campaign made it an issue, but Obama had to show his birth certificate to someone  in government right?

No, he didn't.  A certificate of live birth was produced.  And a Hawaiian official (or two) certified that there is a birth certificate, but they can't produce it unless Obama allows that. 

That's my biggest frustration.  It seems odd to me that someone like another candidate (the perpetual one whose name escapes me at the moment) did not have standing to insist that the b.c. be shown. 

So far no one has standing to do that.  That seems odd. 

Any eligible voter should have a right to have the b.c. produced. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 06:48 AM (pW2o8)

16 I disagree.  There has to be something politically damaging on the long form.  I have a hard time with the notion he spends all this money keeping it hidden from public view as part of some shrewd political tactic.

Not to mention we also haven't seen passport records, Obama's kindergarten records, his Punahou School records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his University of Chicago scholarly articles, his Illinois State Bar Association records, his Illinois State Senate records/schedules (said to be lost), his medical records, the Obama/Dunham marriage license, the Obama/Dunham divorce documents, or the Soetoro/Dunham marriage license.

That doesn't strike anyone as peculiar?  At all?

Maybe if the media could bring themselves to commit an act of journalism...

Posted by: Mister Christopher at March 31, 2011 06:48 AM (KyR3d)

17

 So I am assuming there is a government agency that verifies this stuff right?

I seem to recall the answer being no and that it is up to the states to confirm a candidate is eligible to appear on their ballot.

Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at March 31, 2011 06:49 AM (RZ8pf)

18 What's hard about this position?  "I draw no conclusions about Obama's birth certificate because I haven't seen it.  I would like very much to see it, if only because it's a Constitutional requirement.

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 06:49 AM (McG46)

19 Another concern I have is the media went all out making McCain release his.  George Bush was forced to release his as well.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 06:49 AM (penCf)

20

No, he didn't.  A certificate of live birth was produced.  And a Hawaiian official (or two) certified that there is a birth certificate, but they can't produce it unless Obama allows that. 

I understand he hasn't released it to the general public, but did he release it to whatever gov't agency verifies these things? I would think he had to.

 

My guess is that it contains some embarrasing information. Maybe he has a different last name or his first name is really Mervin.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 06:50 AM (wuv1c)

21 Trump as a candidate is a creation of the left anyway. They're playing this to the hilt. They love it. This only works to their advantage.

well played.

Posted by: Car in at March 31, 2011 06:50 AM (bW9IA)

22

I think he has the birth certificate and, if pressed, will release it, which will damage (although not fatally, but still) anyone who's made an issue of it.

It's already been pretty much established that the long form Hawaiian BC doesn't even exist.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 06:50 AM (J74Py)

23 Y-not: "So far no one has standing to do that. That seems odd."

Exactly. That's my hobby horse here. No one at any point has been given standing. So, um, what was the point of defining conditions in the Constitution again?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2011 06:50 AM (swuwV)

24 But what's the truth of his Social Security number?  I love the carnival-like atmosphere of the whole thing, though.  Can you imagine this happening for anyone else?  Fiction writers are pikers compared to the "truth" that is all around us. Editors and publishers would have rejected any of this 10 years ago.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at March 31, 2011 06:51 AM (71LDo)

25

There are two requirments to be president, if i remember correctly. You have to be over 35 and born in America. So I am assuming there is a government agency that verifies this stuff right? We don't just take peoples word for it, right?

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 11:43 AM (wuv1c)

You're trusting gummint to perform its Constitutionally appointed duties?  Wait, is that sarcasm?

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 06:51 AM (McG46)

26 9 I got no problems with Donald Trump pushing this.  The guy's got the right mixture of low credibility and above average intellect where it really is all on him to go full steam ahead on pressing it.

THIS.

Posted by: shibumi at March 31, 2011 06:51 AM (OKZrE)

27 You're all fired!

Posted by: The Donald at March 31, 2011 06:52 AM (mQMnK)

28

So far no one has standing to do that

That's what it was "standing" that's the word I was looking for.

 

Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at March 31, 2011 06:52 AM (RZ8pf)

29

his Illinois State Bar Association records

I agree with most of your comments about Obama not producing any significant records of his life....like his grades, etc. However, the only "Bar Association" records would be the status of his license (which you can get on - line) and the disposition of any complaint made against him. By law, those complaints are closed anyway - not just for Obama, but for any other attorney in Illinois. The only time they are public is if the Illinois Supreme Court makes a ruling on a discipline case. The published opinion again is in the public domain.

So, lets not throw loose stuff at their at let the Obama worshippers detract from your point.

Posted by: Prof. Mallamutt, good at math...still can't balance his checkbook at March 31, 2011 06:52 AM (OWjjx)

30 I understand he hasn't released it to the general public, but did he release it to whatever gov't agency verifies these things? I would think he had to.

No.  As someone said above, it's a state by state thing.  So as far as I know the only state that has seen his birth certificate is Hawaii. 

And, recall, that the goof-ass governor of Hawaii (the new one, not Lingle) started a kerfuffle a while back saying he'd release it (which he can't without Obama's permission) only to then say that they couldn't find it. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 06:52 AM (pW2o8)

31 But what's the truth of his Social Security number?

No one knows.  What we do know is that he has a SSN issued from Connecticut, but nobody knows why it was issued from there.

I would honestly just like to hear an explanation on that one as well.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2011 06:52 AM (TpXEI)

32

It's Donald Trump.  Expectations of consistency, seriousness, and attention paid even to this idiotic nonissue are utterly unfounded.

You watch.  He'll bluster and bluster and eventually will not even form a campaign committee - because it will suddenly reduce his face time on television because of equal-time regulations (themselves some of the dumbest rules Washington's yet devised). 

If he's especially ballsy, he'll cite fundraising difficulties.

Posted by: Lou at March 31, 2011 06:53 AM (IH3P2)

33 What Donald Trump has to say doesn't interest me.  The sad fact is that O could come on tv tomorrow and say "OK, I wasn't born in this country, although I always thought I was." and the issue would be dead, politically.  The fact that he doesn't just shows to go you that he's no Bill Clinton when it comes to sheer spin control.  Sad, because if Clinton had half of what O has going for him (minority, ability to speak on high minded things with a straight face), he would probably still be president with a new 30'th amendment written just for him...

Posted by: The Voice of Reason at March 31, 2011 06:53 AM (UpqKo)

34 Could it be his father is someone different tha the one he wrote about in his book ? Some left wing nut.

Posted by: Jackhole at March 31, 2011 06:53 AM (+qHxi)

35 FUBAR@18,

Excellent. We'd like you to be our spokesperson on the matter because [*thwap*]... um, nevermind. Forget I said anything.

Posted by: The Stupid Party at March 31, 2011 06:53 AM (swuwV)

36 I forget... Has any reporter ever asked Prezninent Jobkiller why he hasn't released it?

Posted by: IreneFingIrene at March 31, 2011 06:53 AM (JKe0g)

37 If Trump had the slightest fucking clue what he was talking{...}

Your mother know you use your mouth like that?

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at March 31, 2011 06:53 AM (PMGbu)

38

Both parents need to be citizens to be a "natural born Citizen"

 

do you people do any research at all?

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 06:54 AM (oyqh/)

39 Ben, my understanding is that there is not a government agency required to do this, that's why now some states are passing laws basically saying "to get on the ballot in this state you must produce your birth certificate"

Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at March 31, 2011 06:54 AM (RZ8pf)

40 or his first name is really Mervin

I think this gives the correct spin on the whole issue!  More popcorn please.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at March 31, 2011 06:54 AM (71LDo)

41
No one knows.  What we do know is that he has a SSN issued from Connecticut, but nobody knows why it was issued from there.

I would honestly just like to hear an explanation on that one as well.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2011 11:52 AM (TpXEI)

Eh.  I'm sure it's fine.  I'm sure the gummint did its job in vetting him.  I have utmost faith in the gummint.

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 06:54 AM (McG46)

42 So far T Paw and Cuda have come out and said Obama is an American citizen.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 31, 2011 06:54 AM (mHQ7T)

43 36 I forget... Has any reporter ever asked Prezninent Jobkiller why he hasn't released it?

I don't think to his face.

I think Matthews started merbling a while back that he thought Obama should release it, but I don't think it was said to his face.

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 06:55 AM (pW2o8)

44 Even putting aside the problem with concentrating on the birth certificate as the most significant aspect of the eligibility issue (it isn't), it's interesting that people are so scared of a position that most Americans hold or support.  Almost everyone thinks it's beyond weird to hide a birth certificate and certainly something that no one holding the levers of Executrive power in the US should ever be allowed to do (nor should ever even WANT to do). 

The BC issue is not a loser in any way.  It's only a loser by self-fulfilling prophecy (as the right loves to do to itself on so many important issues).

I wish Trump had a better understanding of the whole eligibility issue (he knows pretty much nothing about it, evidently) but I'm glad that he's talking about the BC part, anyway, and not letting those like O'Reilly intimidate him into silence for raising the most legitimate of questions.  Maybe this will catch on with others?

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 06:55 AM (G/MYk)

45

There are two requirments to be president, if i remember correctly. You have to be over 35 and born in America. So I am assuming there is a government agency that verifies this stuff right? We don't just take peoples word for it, right?

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 11:43 AM (wuv1c)

Nancy Pelousy, as a representative of the Democratic Party, signed an affidavit under penalty of perjury that Obamao meets the Constitutional requirements. Obamao did not have to produce any documents of any kind to anyone.

THIS is the biggest issue to arise out of this situation - ALL candidates should be required to confirm their eligibility with a birth certificate.

Posted by: sock puppeh at March 31, 2011 06:55 AM (VcPAo)

46 If you are really serious about understanding the eligibility issue, please read the letter to Donald Trump that was written by Sharon Rondeau of The Post & Email.  She covers most every point there is to cover.

Posted by: elspeth at March 31, 2011 06:55 AM (0AkWH)

47

Both parents need to be citizens to be a "natural born Citizen"

 

do you people do any research at all?

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 11:54 AM (oyqh/)

Notice you forgot to link the research at all.

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 06:55 AM (McG46)

48 or his first name is really Mervin

I believe that's Marvin.

As in Martian.

'Cause he's an alien!

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 06:55 AM (pW2o8)

49 he was never qualified under article 2 of the constitution and the joke is on all of us thanks to pelosi who needs to be thrown in jail for certifying him (and maybe feinstein too)

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 06:56 AM (oyqh/)

50 Delivering the evidence does not hurt anyone who has requested or demanded the evidence.

Saying that providing proof positive is a bad thing is a dumb and dumber argument that supports non-transparency in governance.

Fabricating an answer from whole cloth and requiring everyone to believe and function according to the lie would damage the entire concept of "truth" positive.

Posted by: by any other name at March 31, 2011 06:56 AM (H+LJc)

51 Is it possible that he scribbled his NCAA bracket on the back of the BC with "Cracker-Ass Duke" in the final?

Posted by: IreneFingIrene at March 31, 2011 06:57 AM (JKe0g)

52 TN: Presidential birth certificate bill dies in subcommittee

Rep. Rick Womick, R-Rockvale, was House sponsor of the birth certificate bill. He said it was inspired by constituents who doubt that President Barack Obama was born in the United States. Passage of the bill, he said, would "put this issue to rest," even though he personally believes Obama is a citizen.

"What this really boils down to is enforcing our Constitution," said Womick. "I think he (Obama) does have a birth certificate, and I don't think he's afraid to show it."

House Democratic Caucus Chairman Mike Turner questioned whether the bill was constitutional, since the federal government is in charge of federal elections. Womick said that it was, thanks to the 10th Amendment.

"I thought all this (controversy over Obama's birthplace) was dying down," said Turner. "I'm almost kind of stunned that this is up here."

Rep. Bob Ramsey, R-Maryville, who chairs the State and Local Government Subcommittee, called for a voice vote, then promptly declared the bill had failed.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 06:57 AM (penCf)

53 If he has one and is not showing it, he's an even bigger jerk than I have given him credit for. And I've been giving him huge amounts of credit for being a jerk. Anyone can order their birth certificate, it's a snap and takes a matter of days- or weeks at most. The fact that he hasn't  bothered to, ought to worry people for whatever his reasons for not obtaining and producing one are.

Posted by: Trish at March 31, 2011 06:57 AM (MOgvJ)

54 Delivering the evidence does not hurt anyone who has requested or demanded the evidence.

Saying that providing proof positive is a bad thing is a dumb and dumber argument that supports non-transparency in governance.

Fabricating an answer from whole cloth and requiring everyone to believe and function according to the lie would damage the entire concept of "truth" positive.

Posted by: by any other name at March 31, 2011 11:56 AM (H+LJc)

Yeah, and if it was a Republican President, does anyone think the Left would be worried about appearances as they held Birth Certificate Protests across the land?

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 06:58 AM (McG46)

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 06:59 AM (penCf)

56 So far no one has standing to do that.  That seems odd. 

Any eligible voter should have a right to have the b.c. produced. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 11:48 AM (pW2o

Exactly ... since it should be part of the public record, anyway, thereby requiring no effort or time on anyone's part to produce for a voter to see.  A doctor or lawyer has to publicly display his credentials in his office so that every patient can see his qualifications, but Barky is allowed to pop out of a test tube, hating America like no ones business, lying out of the Oval Office like this natiobn has never seen, and people are attacked for asking for the same level of credential check and publication for this piece of shit.  Unreal.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 06:59 AM (G/MYk)

57 "f he has one and is not showing it, he's an even bigger jerk than I have given him credit for. " Maybe the reporter should phrase it like that:"Some say you are not releasing it so that your political opponents will continue to look foolish and waste time on a non-issue. Is that true? Why won't you release it?". Don't reporters have any sense of pride, integrity, accomplishment? fucking vermin.

Posted by: IreneFingIrene at March 31, 2011 07:00 AM (JKe0g)

58 I still have my suspicions concerning Van Buren's place of birth. I'll be long cold in the ground before I recognize a damned dirty dutchman as the head of our government.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:00 AM (wuv1c)

59 There are two requirements to be president, if i remember correctly. You have to be over 35 and born in America.

----------

There's actually 3 requirements, and it's not born in America, it's natural born citizen.  Plus live here for 14 years.

Direct quote found at constitution-DOT-net:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Posted by: elspeth at March 31, 2011 07:01 AM (0AkWH)

60 Last time we had Ron Paul. Now we have him, his son and Donald Trump, not to mention a bunch of losers.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 31, 2011 07:01 AM (mHQ7T)

61 I think it would be a bigger mistake for the GOP to denounce the Donald at this point.  I also think it's a bit premature for Ace (or any other blogger) to assume the Donald is really a Republican and take premature positions.

In the political weather vane of trial balloons, Trump stands taller than most.  He's the big glow-in-the-dark one, currently.

The most effective strategy is to STFU, watch the movie credits, and pass the popcorn.  I like mine buttered with lots of salt.

Posted by: jwb7605 at March 31, 2011 07:01 AM (Qxe/p)

62 i took my son to get his permit....they would accept nothing less than his birth certificate.....i had to send my daughters birth certificate to the state dept in order to obatain her passport.  i have had to present both immunization records and a birth certificate to the govt elementary, middle and high school that my kids are enrolled in.........why won't he show his birth certificate?   put it out there....i'm glad trump is all over with this....it's not going to make me vote for him but i'm glad he's bringing attention to it........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 31, 2011 07:01 AM (Cm66w)

63

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 11:43 AM (wuv1c)

NO, and that is the problem.

In order to proove you are eligable for President, as stupid as this is, you only have to sign a State form saying you ARE eligable for President... then your party signs off on it as well.  This gets you on the ballot.  Then the Congress is supposed to check on this (you'd think), but there is no process to do so.

What is reallllllyyyy weird, is that in many states, the part where the Party signs? was left OFF on Obama's forms... contrary to all prior practice.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:01 AM (NtXW4)

64 Remember - the chuckleheads that voted for Obama did so on the basis of 1 autobiography, a one page doctor's note, and the equivalent of some term papers Obama wrote and published as campaign issues.

To be fair, there was also a poem about apes, figs, and a grotto.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 31, 2011 07:02 AM (YvNBz)

65 A doctor or lawyer has to publicly display his credentials in his office so that every patient can see his qualifications,

Let's face it, a fucking hairdresser has to display her license. 

Joe the Plumber had to produce his. 

The guy's a huge jerk. 

I am resigned to being stuck with him until he's voted out, but I wish to goodness that our legislators would do something about this bizarre loophole in ensuring that our constitutional requirements for POTUS are met. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 07:02 AM (pW2o8)

66 Obama has admitted that something on his birth certificate EMBARRASSES him.  He has said it himself.  It would be embarrassing to release it.

What information is on a BC that could be embarrassing?  Parents' names, religion, date, location, hospital, doctor, gender, race...

Maybe it says he's white, since his mother is.  That'd be embarrassing.  Maybe his father's name isn't on there, or maybe a different father's name is on there.  That'd be embarrassing.  Maybe it says a different birth date than is printed in the newspaper birth announcement.  That'd cause some issues.  Location is a no brainer.  Maybe it says Muslim, like his school application in Indonesia... that would definitely be some bad optics.

Whatever it is, if it bothers him so much, that's all the more reason the nation should see it.  It's called racist to ask for the BC of a (half-)black President... but it's actually racist to allow the first (half-)black President to be treated differently because his feelings will be hurt if he's treated like every other President and presidential candidate.  Equality for all, except when inequality actually is beneficial, eh?

Posted by: sickened at March 31, 2011 07:03 AM (+tFCJ)

67 42 So far T Paw and Cuda have come out and said Obama is an American citizen.

-------------

I think it is only because the repercussions of him not being eligible scares the be-jebus out of most folks.  To try to undo the damage made by a usurper is no easy feat, and probably near impossible.

Posted by: elspeth at March 31, 2011 07:03 AM (0AkWH)

68 The only way that an opponent of Obama would be burnt for demanding legal proof positive would be by other so-called opponents of Obama who actually function as Obama apologists and political assassin/saboteurs of Obama's political opponent "enemies".

It isn't as if Obama's deceits are acceptable to his opponents. Only to his supporters who would NOT vote against Obama, regardless of proof.

And it isn't as if Obama's lack of constitutional credentials (not being a natural born citizen, nor being naturalized legally) are the only grounds for his impeachment, prosecution and conviction. The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.  And for good measure, include every infraction against the law to boot out his VP as well.

Posted by: by any other name at March 31, 2011 07:03 AM (H+LJc)

69

OH... and quit worrying about Politics on this one... when you do, you play right into THEIR hands... you are letting the enemy dictate the battlefield..

Just postulate it as a quest for truth, and dare I say, transparency? and as Obama just got an award for openess, given to him in a closed door secret meeting... (and no folks, not making that up)...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:03 AM (NtXW4)

70 How about this?   What if he is using this controversy as some sort of racial wedge?  Let's say right before the elections he is proven to be ineligible.  He loses in a huge landslide.  He is still Prez.  The blacks and far left riot.  He announces the Guard will take over policing major cities. 

He refuses to leave office while the Nation is in such distress.

Can't happen? 

Did you ever think you'd see a time when the Admin. met with the Egyptian fighters (and Soros people) before the uprising?

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:04 AM (penCf)

71 I think the best summary of Obama is that he accepted a transparency award yesterday...in secret. (no press allowed)

Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at March 31, 2011 07:04 AM (RZ8pf)

72 The most genuine thing about trump is his hair. He's doing this for notoriety and to help the dems. the left loves this because it brings the issue back up so they can say look at those crazy racist republicans and how sensible obama is by comparison. Obamas poll numbers are hurting and this is the only (faux) card they have.

Posted by: A.G. at March 31, 2011 07:04 AM (2J/Ni)

73 Remember: it is in Obama's interest to prolong the controversy -- energy and attention on the "birther" issue is energy and attention not spent on substantive issues.

Posted by: Bill at March 31, 2011 07:05 AM (jN+a0)

74 If Republicans ever take House, Senate, and White House, they had better create a Congressional verification process for presidential candidates.  Democrats never will.

Posted by: sickened at March 31, 2011 07:05 AM (+tFCJ)

75

Obama has admitted that something on his birth certificate EMBARRASSES him.  He has said it himself.  It would be embarrassing to release it.
What information is on a BC that could be embarrassing?

The name of his country of birth.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 07:05 AM (J74Py)

76

Barry's birth certificate will be fake but accurate.

Posted by: booter at March 31, 2011 07:05 AM (w43sl)

77 Well *I* wanted to have some college transcripts etc before voting to 'hire' someone to one of the most important positions in the world. But 52% of people who bothered to show up at polls in 2008 felt that if the MarxSpewMedia was fellating him that was good enough. And those of us in the 48% share some fault in not being able or willing to do a better job of persuading.

Posted by: Palerider at March 31, 2011 07:06 AM (vL0Nv)

78 energy and attention on the "birther" issue is energy and attention not spent on substantive issues.

Posted by: Bill at March 31, 2011 12:05 PM (jN+a0)

Making sure the President is actually eligible to be President isn't a substantive issue?

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 07:07 AM (McG46)

79 If Trump gets burned by the certificate issue, it will be (completely by accident) the best thing Obama ever did for this here republic.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2011 07:07 AM (hBOZg)

80

i bet it's race, religion and paternity..........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 31, 2011 07:07 AM (Cm66w)

81 Sweet OT: What's good for Barry isn't good for Walker, apparently. Just remember: Democrats always win. weasel zippers Breaking: Wisconsin Judge Rewrites Restraining Order For Third Time to Stop Anti-Union Law From Going Into Effect… Sumi re-issued her order on Tuesday and this time, she has warned that anyone who violates it will face sanctions. She amended the ruling on Thursday to read, “Further, based on the briefs of counsel, the uncontroverted testimony, and the evidence received at the March 29 evidentiary hearing, it is hereby declared that 2011 Wisconsin Act 10 has not been published.”

Posted by: George Orwell at March 31, 2011 07:07 AM (AZGON)

82 Yeah, and if it was a Republican President, does anyone think...

that the legal certification would be withheld?

Given McCain's precedence, no.

Posted by: by any other name at March 31, 2011 07:07 AM (H+LJc)

83 This is stupid.

How about the GOP get us a fucking budget and drop this shit?

Let Trump bloviate all he wants about it.. it's good entertainment.  But elected officials and candidates should drop this like a hot potato.

And let's remember - Trump is NOT a candidate.  He's either doing prep work for some other candidate, or just pushing his latest Apprentice project.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 31, 2011 07:08 AM (f9c2L)

84 Trump should be careful, but thus far the BC issue has hurt nobody but Obama himself.  If this was just a kook conspiracy theory it wouldn't have been gaining so much steam over the last three years that now a guy as prominent as Trump now feels it's worthwhile to push.  And think what you will about Trump; he wouldn't be doing this if he didn't know a very large and growing segment of the country believes there's something there.

It would be nice to know that the guy who's ruined our economy, our health care system, our currency, and our relations with the entire world at least legally holds the office from which he's done it all.

My bet for the last three years has been that he doesn't.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at March 31, 2011 07:08 AM (J6MSP)

85

I think he has the birth certificate and, if pressed, will release it

He produced the only official document that the state of HI will give out. The image of it is at FactCheck dot org.

If you believe that HI state officials are telling the truth, then he was born here and has official paperwork to prove it.

If you believe that the doc at FactCheck is a fake and the HI officials are not telling the truth, then it's a whole other story.

Pick one.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 07:08 AM (XdlcF)

86 Every Rep that runs for POTUS in the primary should release his/her birth certificate and college records and make a big fuckin' deal about it. Something along the lines of "I've produced mine in the best interests of transparency in government; where are yours?"

Posted by: sock puppeh at March 31, 2011 07:08 AM (VcPAo)

87 zzz

Posted by: Kodos at March 31, 2011 07:08 AM (Gpoyx)

88

Two words: Cloven Hoofprint

Lower right corner.

Posted by: KZnextzone at March 31, 2011 07:08 AM (ZUWaD)

89

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 12:04 PM (penCf)

One of the most troubling things I know, which has flown under the Radar... is the overhaul of military training under this current administration.

Our defense outlook and training has gone from a Big Battle Large War mentality, to one of training and equiping to fight insurgencies.

Now, the ONLY time you need anti insurgency training, is when you are an Occupying Force, OR you are combating an Internal rebelion.

As it takes YEARS to train and equip forces, this tells me that this is the roll the Pentagon sees for our military in the upcoming years... which scares the BeJesus out of me.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:09 AM (NtXW4)

90

>>> Just postulate it as a quest for truth, and dare I say, transparency? and as Obama just got an award for openess, given to him in a closed door secret meeting... (and no folks, not making that up)...

 

Ace - you should add the last part of Romeo's comment to this post.

Posted by: Roadking at March 31, 2011 07:09 AM (KUZFd)

91 @77
He wasn't "hired," he was anointed. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 07:09 AM (pW2o8)

92 But elected officials and candidates should drop this like a hot potato.

What elected officials and candidates ever picked it up?

Trump, as a non-serious "candidate", is doing what they can't do.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at March 31, 2011 07:09 AM (J6MSP)

93

I keep seeing this speculation that there must be something politically damaging on his "long form" BC.

OK, like what? 

Google can pull up an example of what the "long form" BC looks like.  What could there possibly be that would cause him significant political harm?

How politically damaging would it really be if, for instance, his race were listed as "caucasian" instead of "black"?  It might be slightly embarrassing on a personal level, but not politically.  If anything, it would be more likely to draw him personal sympathy; it's not like he had any input about it at the time.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:09 AM (SY2Kh)

94 I think you over-think.

When someone hides something - something that would presumably be simple to produce - then naturally people develop doubts about that individual.

Doubts about Obama do not help Obama, and that is a good thing.

Posted by: Alana at March 31, 2011 07:10 AM (/N/wg)

95

 >>> Maybe he is a hermaphrodite

Well his 'Metro' readings are off the charts soooo............

Posted by: Roadking at March 31, 2011 07:10 AM (KUZFd)

96 Bill: "Remember: it is in Obama's interest to prolong the controversy -- energy and attention on the 'birther' issue is energy and attention not spent on substantive issues."

I understand this argument but don't really accept it. Just put it on the pile of things wrong with Obama. We can multitask in our criticism. This argument goes to transparency and fidelity to Constitutional principles.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2011 07:10 AM (swuwV)

97 You're all banned.  G'bye.

Posted by: Erick Erickson at March 31, 2011 07:11 AM (J6MSP)

98 Remember: it is in Obama's interest to prolong the controversy -- energy and attention on the "birther" issue is energy and attention not spent on substantive issues. Posted by: Bill at March 31, 2011 12:05 PM (jN+a0) Actually, it benefits Obama as long as Republicans squirm and assert his legitimacy for fear of looking like racists while he sits on the truth and smirks. It benefits the Democrats, but tars them at the same time. Sure, they can call their opponents racist, but they also look like they're either hiding something or knowingly causing panic during stressful times.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 31, 2011 07:11 AM (mHQ7T)

99 "Don't reporters have any sense of pride, integrity, accomplishment?"

What good is any of that when you have a chance to fellate an engorged Communist?

Posted by: Typical Journalist at March 31, 2011 07:11 AM (mEyVv)

100 @ 97 LOL

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 31, 2011 07:11 AM (mHQ7T)

101

We know being an 'American' is anathema to Obama.

We also know that he believes the 'Adhan' to be ..."The most beautiful sound in the world.".

I'd say that's enough for me to want to see him covered in Tar and Feathers and run out of DC on a Rail.

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2011 07:11 AM (w3f8C)

102 "He's either doing prep work for some other candidate, or just pushing his latest Apprentice project?"

Ding!  Ding!  Ding!

Posted by: jwb7605 at March 31, 2011 07:12 AM (Qxe/p)

103

I think he was born in Hawaii and eligible to be president - albeit a terrible one. 

My question is this: Why wouldn't Obama just release the damned thing to shut everyone up and make the doubters look like idiots?  Wouldn't it benefit him?  Wouldn't people feel sorry for him and rally around him if he did so?

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 31, 2011 07:13 AM (zgZzy)

104 Google can pull up an example of what the "long form" BC looks like.  What could there possibly be that would cause him significant political harm?

Well I don't know; if it's that unlikely there is any such liability for Obama then why doesn't he just release the fucking thing?

The power to end this shit once and for all rests with the guy who sealed his own birth records, not the "birthers".

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at March 31, 2011 07:13 AM (J6MSP)

105 Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 12:09 PM (NtXW4)


Yep, one of my nephews (military - Korea) has friends that have been side - by-side with state patrolmen during drunk driving check points.

They have had training sessions in 'dead towns' with Americans as the enemy.  (They only cancel those that are found out by the press)

They have ran training sessions along side of sheriffs and city police.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:14 AM (penCf)

106 He produced the only official document that the state of HI will give out.

Mama,  I don't think that's quite right. 

Hawaii can release his birth certificate if the person in question (Obama) authorizes them to.  Their reticence to release more is simply because they are not allowed to release more by law without his permission. 

The point of "believing" is the statement by the official (who was a bureaucrat whose name escapes me, but she actually happened to be a Democrat in Lingle's administration) that she has eye-balled his birth records and verified that he was born here.  However, a few months ago the current governor seemed to raise the specter that those records could not be located. 


Trump can do what he wants.  He's not a Republican, so it doesn't hurt us. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 07:14 AM (pW2o8)

107 Um, he was adopted by stepdaddy Soetoro - so assuming Barry's last name was changed. Where's the evidence that he changed his name back to Obama? And isn't a birth certificate updated to reflect name changes?
Did the adoption make him an Indonesian citizen? Does Indonesia allow dual citizenship?
Shrug

Posted by: Questions I Don't Bother to Research at March 31, 2011 07:14 AM (xs5wK)

108 The health department has stated that they are in possession of Obama's "Vital Records" [note: plural]. From these records, the information was distilled to create the the information found on the COLB. So, assuming that the COLB is not a forgery, there must be some records saying he was born in Hawaii, because that is what it says on the COLB, and the COLB is just a summary on the vital records. The question is, what are these vital records. Is it just a normal BC issued as a result of a normal birth at a hospital, or is it something more exotic. Knowing everything we know about Obama, it is probably the latter. It might be a "late" BC issued months after his purported birth issued by the state merely on the affidavit of a relative (usually for rural folk who give birth at home with a midwife). That would open possible accusations of citizenship fraud committed by his mom or grandparents -- wanting little Kenyan-born Obama to be a US citizen. The vital records (note plural) might be an amended BC where information on the original was changed after the initial BC was altered. So, the original BC would either have an allonge attached or show the interlineation and the original information. I am betting on many changes. He was adopted by Soetero. That is an amendment. He was unadopted by Soetero. That is another amendment. Even if everything about this guy was not shrouded under a seal of secrecy, you would need a Venn Diagram to make any sense of his past.

Posted by: tommylotto at March 31, 2011 07:15 AM (oHIHU)

109 "How about the GOP get us a fucking budget and drop this shit? ... elected officials and candidates should drop this like a hot potato."

Who are you talking about?  Who in the GOP is holding onto this in the first place?

Posted by: Kensington at March 31, 2011 07:15 AM (mEyVv)

110 I think Kim Kardashian's tits are alien beings from another planet.  There.  I said it.

Posted by: BHO, super genius at March 31, 2011 07:15 AM (dOOBu)

111

Why wouldn't Obama just release the damned thing to shut everyone up and make the doubters look like idiots?  Wouldn't it benefit him?  Wouldn't people feel sorry for him and rally around him if he did so?

I don't have my original one. Couldn't "release" it if I tried. Not exactly a stretch to think his mom lost his.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 07:15 AM (XdlcF)

112

STOP WITH THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE!  IT'S A RUSE...

 

HE IS AT LEAST A DUAL CITIZEN and DEFINATELY NOT

"NATURAL BORN" as constitutionally predicated

 

1. his father was a british citizen

2. he was adopted by a indonesian citizen

 

when did he relinquish his other citizenship?  it doesn't matter...

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 07:15 AM (oyqh/)

113 #103 "Wouldn't people feel sorry for him and rally around him if he did so?"

Yes, Wyatt.  That's why I expect to see the "real thing" somewhere around October 2012.
Complete with pre-written blogs defending anything that might be embarrassing, if there indeed is anything.

Posted by: jwb7605 at March 31, 2011 07:16 AM (Qxe/p)

114

Doubts about Obama do not help Obama, and that is a good thing.

The people who have "doubts" are almost exclusively among those who wouldn't vote for him anyways.

Would you or any of the Birthers vote for him in 2012 if he did succumb to demands to produce his "long form" BC, college records, etc?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:16 AM (SY2Kh)

115

I don't have my original one. Couldn't "release" it if I tried. Not exactly a stretch to think his mom lost his.

 

 

I'm fine with that, but he should say it if that's the case. 

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 31, 2011 07:16 AM (zgZzy)

116

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 12:08 PM (XdlcF)

Sorry, but you are factualy incorrect.

Your records, ALL of them, can be produced either by yourself, or via a Court Order... this document would not hold up in a Court of Law, OR, for a Security Clearance.

Because we KNOW Obama has changed names at least once (he was Barry Sotoero), this document from Hawaii is NOT legal proof of Identity WITHOUT further amplifying documents (name change docs, adoption papers and such).

The DHS enforces very strict guidlines as to what prooves 'identity' (vice name)...

So, the document could very well be there, based on Hawaii law (where all you needed for a cert back then is an affidavit, even from a relative).. thus the Hawaii officials ARE telling the legal truth... without Prooving a dang thing (without other supporting documentation).

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:17 AM (NtXW4)

117 Why are republicans the only ones who ever get asked if Obama was born in the USA?  I wish sometime one of them would say, "Ask Obama. Why do only republicans get asked this question?  Really.  Has any reporter ever directly asked Obama, 'Were you born in Hawaii and, if so, what hospital were you born in?'  Has any reporter ever directly asked him why he doesn't release a certified copy of a birth certificate for critics to review?" 

Posted by: pitythefool at March 31, 2011 07:17 AM (BjQSh)

118

Yes, Wyatt.  That's why I expect to see the "real thing" somewhere around October 2012.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the least.  But if it happens, at least the birthers can move on.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 31, 2011 07:17 AM (zgZzy)

119
  It's quite evident that no matter the original reason for withholding that BC, someone realized what a dandy weapon it turned out to be.

  It'll get used exactly as has been, there is no reason to abandon such an effective weapon.  THAT you may count on.

Posted by: irongrampa at March 31, 2011 07:17 AM (ud5dN)

120

I don't have my original one. Couldn't "release" it if I tried. Not exactly a stretch to think his mom lost his.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 12:15 PM (XdlcF)

They give out the original?  That doesn't make sense.  I only get a copy.

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 07:18 AM (McG46)

121

Mainstreaming a theory is only a good thing if that theory is actually true. If it's false, and provably so, it's damaging to be among those mainstreaming it.

Only for the Right. The Left never pays for false allegations. They just quietly move on to the next.

But, those are the rules. For now. So, be smart.

And, Trump knows he can't win. He has no conservative principles. He has no principles. He's just doing this to get noticed, and expand his celebrity empire to politics. While we treat politics and policy seriously (most of the time), he's just goofing.

Posted by: CJ at March 31, 2011 07:19 AM (9KqcB)

122 I don't have my original one. Couldn't "release" it if I tried. Not exactly a stretch to think his mom lost his.

My recollection is what my state (PA) issued to me in the past was a b.c. that had an embossed seal on it.  But I do not think it was the 40-something year old physical piece of paper that was issued when I was born.  I believe the original one stays with the state.  They merely issue a certified version of one. 

Part of the reason I think this might be true is that I needed mine later in life and I had to have it re-issued.  Sort of like with my SS card (I lost the original). 

I think

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 07:19 AM (pW2o8)

123

I don't have my original one. Couldn't "release" it if I tried. Not exactly a stretch to think his mom lost his.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 12:15 PM (XdlcF)

But the State does have those records, and you CAN get them...

Now, in cases of adoption, you do have to get a Judge to sign off on it because those records are sealed (I think this is the case with Obama)... but if the biological Parents are already dead then Judges will do this in a Heartbeat.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:20 AM (NtXW4)

124 Obama has admitted that something on his birth certificate EMBARRASSES him.  He has said it himself.  It would be embarrassing to release it.

The guys at Hillbuzz have been beating this issue for a while now, and I think they have the most plausible explanation... If Obama was legally adopted by his stepfather, then his birth certificate was legally changed to reflect that.  So instead of reading "Barack Hussein Obama" it would read "Barack/Barry Soetoro" and list his stepfather as his father, per the adoption.  Hillbuzz's theory is that Obama has never legally changed his name back to his birth name, and that is why releasing the long form birth certificate would be terribly embarrassing.  It would also explain why the birth certificate can't be found under the name Obama - it would have been refiled under his adopted name.

That being said, I think the sooner the whole BC is forgotten, the better.  Nothing on that form is going to change the past, so we'd better start planning for the future.

Posted by: Deanna at March 31, 2011 07:20 AM (QjZhI)

125

It is not the fact that President Obama does not or won't show the American People the his birth certificate.  The question is how can the Commander & Chief of the United States Military allow a decorated Army Medic, Col Lankin to be court marshaled and not allow him the opportunity do defend himself.  Would not an honorable President do every thing he could to defend those who serve him?

 

Posted by: Lavonne Pinski at March 31, 2011 07:20 AM (Mn1LR)

126

I agree with most of your comments about Obama not producing any significant records of his life....like his grades, etc. However, the only "Bar Association" records would be the status of his license (which you can get on - line) and the disposition of any complaint made against him.....

Posted by: Prof. Mallamutt, good at math...still can't balance his checkbook at March 31, 2011 11:52 AM (OWjjx)

 

Respectfully, I don't know about this... I'm not in Illinois, but of course there's a separate application to the bar.   For me that included a questionnaire on 1) every residence I had ever lived at; 2) my financial status and any legal action against me to collect debts; 3) affidavits about my character from every employer for whom I performed any legal-type job; 4) an original certified copy of my birth certificate, issued by the state; 5) records of any criminal actions ever brought against me (down to traffic tickets); 6) any and all college transcripts; 7) records of admission in other jurisdictions;   questionnaires on mental illness and drug abuse; 9) a transcript of the requisite interview I had with court personnel; and 10) the ticket showing that I actually passed the bar exam.  And I'm probably missing something from that list. 

Whether that could be made available to the public under Illinois law, I don't know.  But that file is sitting somewhere right now, and it's a treasure-trove of data.

Posted by: La Mauvaise New Yorkaise at March 31, 2011 07:21 AM (8uZ8A)

127 I believe the original one stays with the state.  They merely issue a certified version of one. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 12:19 PM (pW2o

This is true in CA. I can't imagine any state releasing the original original.

Posted by: sock puppeh at March 31, 2011 07:21 AM (VcPAo)

128

 It might be a "late" BC issued months after his purported birth issued by the state merely on the affidavit of a relative (usually for rural folk who give birth at home with a midwife).

If you accept that the info on the COLB at FactCheck is correct, then no. There is a "date filed" on it.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 07:21 AM (XdlcF)

129

if it says religion "muslim" he has claimed how many times he's never been one? but his parents had considered him enough of one to make him have to explain his apostacy since he is now claiming to be a "Christian" 

 

if the race says "mullato" well that opens the racial can of worms and he is supposed to be raceless...

if the paternity is not the kenyan but his grandfather's ped, commie friend.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 31, 2011 07:21 AM (Cm66w)

130 Damn! Late to another "Birther" thread. Probably a waste of time anyway.

For what it's worth I KICKED EVERYBODY'S Ass over at Hot Air on THAT birther thread.

Want a piece of me? Come on over bitches!


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 07:22 AM (v2K2g)

131 #107...ding ding ding we have a winner

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 07:22 AM (oyqh/)

132
That being said, I think the sooner the whole BC is forgotten, the better.  Nothing on that form is going to change the past, so we'd better start planning for the future.

Posted by: Deanna at March 31, 2011 12:20 PM (QjZhI)

What if it could change the future?  It can only hurt Obama to release it, which makes me not understand why folks on our side want to drop it.  Mystifying.

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 07:23 AM (McG46)

133 Hell, BO didn't even know what hospital he was born in.

His wife said Kenya was Obama's birthplace.

He has 3 SS numbers. 1 (at least) from Connecticut.

Why, anyone who sees these as discrepancies are just stupid./

Hell, teachers get a background check, but POTUS does not?!

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:23 AM (penCf)

134

Well I don't know; if it's that unlikely there is any such liability for Obama then why doesn't he just release the fucking thing?

The power to end this shit once and for all rests with the guy who sealed his own birth records, not the "birthers".

Why would he?  It didn't hurt him in 2008, and is unlikely to in 2012.

There's no political advantage in releasing it; if anything, the opposite is true.  So long as "Republicans" like Trump beclown themselves with this nonsense, it helps further the meme that Republicans are unserious (and possibly racist) "extremists" more interested in conspiracy theories than solving the problems our country faces.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:24 AM (SY2Kh)

135 Would you or any of the Birthers vote for him in 2012 if he did succumb to demands to produce his "long form" BC, college records, etc?
Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 12:16 PM (SY2Kh)

Hollowpoint, why doesn't it bother you that we have a president who has waged a concerted, years-long campaign to seal and conceal just about every piece of personal, academic, and even medical documentation he's ever generated?

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at March 31, 2011 07:25 AM (J6MSP)

136 People who are pushing that Obama is not legitimate because of his parents' citizenship, regardless of where he was born, are setting up Rubio for problems down the road.  I wish they'd drop it.  I do not think that attacking Obama's legitimacy based on him being a "anchor baby" or whatever they call kids born here to foreign parents is accurate, nor is it a good tactic. 

Seems to me he was possibly born with dual citizenship.  If he did not renounce his second citizenship, then I gather that would be a problem.  But that's not a b.c. issue; that's something else. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 07:25 AM (pW2o8)

137

I don't have my original one. Couldn't "release" it if I tried. Not exactly a stretch to think his mom lost his.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 12:15 PM (XdlcF)

Except that he wrote (whoever wrote his book) about looking at the physical birth certificate (and not the one for the jpeg, as that was allegedly printed much later).

There is no rational excuse or explanation for Barky's behavior on this point.  None.  NONE!  Because of that, most people want to see the proof rather than take his twisted, America-hating word about anything.  That is the normal reaction to such a person.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 07:25 AM (G/MYk)

138  I forget... Has any reporter ever asked Prezninent Jobkiller why he hasn't released it?

I don't think to his face.

I think Matthews started merbling a while back that he thought Obama should release it, but I don't think it was said to his face.

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 11:55 AM (pW2o

 

How can they say anything to his face? They're always on their knees either in front or behind him

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 31, 2011 07:25 AM (1Jaio)

139 I have to leave in ten minutes, but I want to point out a bit of information that I recently became aware of.


Obama wrote in his own book "Dreams From my Father" (1995) that he has NO PROOF that Barack Obama Sr. is his father.

If what he said in 1995 is true, then what IS his birth certification? Does it not PROVE that Barack Obama Sr. is his father? If he says that he has no proof, then how does this jive with the COLB?

Here is the excerpt from his book as quoted by Jack Cashill.

On the occasion of his father's death in 1982, lawyers contacted anyone who might have claim to the estate.  "Unlike my mum," Obama tells his half-sister Auma in Dreams, "Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark's father was." 

Mark being Barack Obama Sr.'s other half white son.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 07:27 AM (v2K2g)

140 How can they say anything to his face? They're always on their knees

So they looked him in the "eye" and asked him? 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 07:27 AM (pW2o8)

141 The BC alone is not the whole issue.  It is complete lack of any paper trail of this man's history in the USA.  I know less about him than I do about my Great Great Great grandfather. and have seen less documentation supporting his life story.

What we have is a couple of book that he may or may not have written, which skeptic feel might be half fiction/fantasy and half truth.

What we do know is he has spent tons of $$$ to suppress the access to the actual papers which tell us something about him.

When GWB was running the Dems trotted out their proctologist and dug every scrap of paper they could find (and when they didn't find something, they made some papers for it).  Same thing for Palin....but we cannot even see how he did in his College Economics class?

This is rotten and wrong, and there is alot being hidden, period....

Think about it and use your parent hat and think of it as Obama being your child....

Parent: "Let me see your Grades." 
Child:"Oh I left my report card in my locker, I got 4 As and a B"
Parent:"Get in the car we're going to go get it"
Child:"The school is locked down after 5:00"
Parent:"The School has swimming practice going on right now, we can get in through locker room."
Child:"I really need to study for a Chem test tomorrow"
Parent:"It will take 10 minutes."
Child:"There was a virus going around at school, I dont want to catch it"
Parent:"We will be careful, put on this mask"
Child:"The school burnt down today and so did my report card"
Parent:"Lets go have a look"
Child:"I lost my report card in the hallway, it must have fell out of my notebook"

Are you still believing him?
Are you of the camp that he thought ahead this far and is simply setting up the Conservatives who question his legality for a big ol pre-planned poke in the eye?  Sorry not buying the sinister plan dude.

Where there is Smoke....there is Fire.... and I suspect there is more than just the BC says Muslim on it...

Of course I could be wrong..
Z

Posted by: zilch at March 31, 2011 07:27 AM (Wr3zz)

142

Damn! Late to another "Birther" thread. Probably a waste of time anyway.

For what it's worth I KICKED EVERYBODY'S Ass over at Hot Air on THAT birther thread.

Good.  Confine your crazy there, nutcase.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:28 AM (SY2Kh)

143 Maybe he isn't showing it because his real daddy ain't who Barry said it was.

Or he plain and simple wasn't born here.

The former, in this day and age, wouldn't cause much stir. The latter, another story.

Posted by: beasn at March 31, 2011 07:29 AM (aiWtu)

144 All serious Republican candidates should jointly issue a statement to the effect that they regard the issue of the BC as one whose source, and resolution, if any, is out of their control, and therefore it is not something they can or should engage in speculation about.

Posted by: sherlock at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (JYBAr)

145 Forget proof of birth, I'm still waiting to see the guy demonstrate proof of allegiance.

Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (9/An0)

146 Seems to me he was possibly born with dual citizenship. If he did not renounce his second citizenship, then I gather that would be a problem. But that's not a b.c. issue; that's something else.

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 12:25 PM (pW2o

IMO that is why he is fighting this.  Right now they are fighting these cases on issues of Standing, so they will not have to produce the actual Birth Cert, and put it into the Legal Record.

Because once they do, its a simple LEGAL arguement as to his dual citizen status... you now have a place to start... as you have evidence that he was born a Dual Citizen, which can then open up discovery.

The LAST thing they want is any of this to get a real hearing before a fair minded Judge.

But then, I also think its really time to rethink our citizenship laws anyway, and go back to the Founders intent of no Dual Citizens...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (NtXW4)

147 It didn't hurt him in 2008, and is unlikely to in 2012.

It's hurting him right now, because there is absolutely no evidence that "birtherism" is redounding negatively upon the GOP or any elected Republican.  Obama even throws out jokes about it from left field every chance he gets, clearly with the intent of using the issue to paint his opponents as fools, but there's no sign that it's working.  All he's doing is keeping alive a question for which he has no answer.

This issue holds no liability for the GOP, while it creates all the doubt in the world about Obama.  So what's the problem?

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (J6MSP)

148 Somebody around here said it once, I want to see it because Fuck Him.  Every other candidate gets the full cavity check and so should he.

Plus he put a false ss # on his selective service form, so he can he explain that one too.

These are minimum things that someone who has the power to put our troops in harm's way should have to do.  So fuck him.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (Z1jiu)

149 And if his daddy was a muslim, that would make him a muslim, in the muslim world's eyes.

Posted by: beasn at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (aiWtu)

150 What if it could change the future?  It can only hurt Obama to release it, which makes me not understand why folks on our side want to drop it.  Mystifying.

Okay, let's theorize that it could change the future if the adoption theory is correct.  You don't think the kiss-asses in the media would immediately rush to Captain Awesome's defense and trot out the "oh, poor guy, no one ever told him this happened" and the "if he'd known, he would have legally taken care of it because he's SUCH a smart guy and a lawyer."  They would make Obama out to be the "victim" of his mother's unconventional life and marriages (which they've tried to imply for years anyway), and since she's long since passed away, we get stuck in the position of criticizing a dead woman (who is the President's mother!  Who died of cancer!  You heartless bastards!) and he walks off scot-free.

Posted by: Deanna at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (QjZhI)

151 Seems to me he was possibly born with dual citizenship.  

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 12:25 PM (pW2o

Nothing "possibly" about that.  Barky admitted it, himself, on his stopthesmears web site when he pasted the lines from factcheck.org stating that Barky was born a British subject and later got that swapped for Kenyan citizenship when they got their independence.

There is NO QUESTION at all that Barky was a dual citizen, involving at least Britain and Kenya and possibly Indonesia (and who knows where else).  That dual citizenship obviated any natural born American status Barky might have had.  He is ineligible.  End of story.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 07:30 AM (G/MYk)

152

Except that he wrote (whoever wrote his book) about looking at the physical birth certificate (and not the one for the jpeg, as that was allegedly printed much later).

There is no rational excuse or explanation for Barky's behavior on this point.  None.  NONE!  Because of that, most people want to see the proof rather than take his twisted, America-hating word about anything.  That is the normal reaction to such a person.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 12:25 PM (G/MYk)


Dude, I expect YOU to get this, even if nobody else does. Obama Admits in his book "Dreams From my Father" (1995) that his mother has NO PROOF that he is Barack Obama Sr.'s son!

Here is the quote from Jack Cashill's article on the subject.

On the occasion of his father's death in 1982, lawyers contacted anyone who might have claim to the estate.  "Unlike my mum," Obama tells his half-sister Auma in Dreams, "Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark's father was."
Damn it. Can't get the link thingy to work.

Go to "American Thinker" search for Jack Cashill, "

What Obama Has Said about His Own Birth"


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 07:31 AM (v2K2g)

153 If has a passport, he had to produce an original birth certificate to get it.  I recently went thru the process.  Not that I'm lookin on jumping ship...yet.  Some where in the Government there is some kind of copy of it.  Any gov'met work'en morons out there that can help?

Posted by: Paladin at March 31, 2011 07:33 AM (hxLER)

154 Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 12:31 PM (v2K2g)

Hmmmm.  Very interesting.  I'll check that out.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 07:33 AM (G/MYk)

155

Damn! Late to another "Birther" thread. Probably a waste of time anyway.

For what it's worth I KICKED EVERYBODY'S Ass over at Hot Air on THAT birther thread.

Good.  Confine your crazy there, nutcase.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 12:28 PM (SY2Kh)


Fuck you asswipe! You are nothing but an ankle biting chihuahua. Leave grown up talk for grownups.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 07:34 AM (v2K2g)

156

You don't think the kiss-asses in the media would immediately rush to Captain Awesome's defense and trot out the "oh, poor guy, no one ever told him this happened" and the "if he'd known, he would have legally taken care of it because he's SUCH a smart guy and a lawyer." 

As if those excuses would fly after fighting the release of his BC.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 07:34 AM (J74Py)

157 I'm with zilch.

Posted by: elspeth at March 31, 2011 07:34 AM (0AkWH)

158

This is not even discussable any more.

There are all these arguments out there that just gloss over terms. I can't answer something if there's no agreement about what different terms mean.

And, recall, that the goof-ass governor of Hawaii (the new one, not Lingle) started a kerfuffle a while back saying he'd release it (which he can't without Obama's permission) only to then say that they couldn't find it. 

Look up the actual quote from the Star-Advisor and see how much that has been twisted.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 07:34 AM (XdlcF)

159

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 12:31 PM (v2K2g)

Now, couple that with the admission that he DID see his Birth Cert???

Interesting...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:35 AM (NtXW4)

160 Let Trump run with it.  I don't think anyone considers him a serious candidate, so he can take this issue and play with it and have a ball.  Trump obviously doesn't care if some people consider it a crackpot issue.

Everyone else should just leave it alone.  Easy enough.

Who knows?  Maybe Trump will bring out something interesting.  Shrug.

*** on a side note, I used to oppose the whole birther thing sheerly because it would (if 100% successful) lead to a Biden/Pelosi endpoint.  That's changed.  So let them have a run at it.  Biden Boehner would be a HILARIOUS combo.

Posted by: Ace Tomato at March 31, 2011 07:35 AM (23p1u)

161 When you start taking on flak, you know you are over the target.

Posted by: navybrat at March 31, 2011 07:35 AM (glOq3)

162

Hollowpoint, why doesn't it bother you that we have a president who has waged a concerted, years-long campaign to seal and conceal just about every piece of personal, academic, and even medical documentation he's ever generated?

Because there's not a fucking thing you, I, or the Republican party can do about it.  The voters decided to elect him without such documentation in 2008, and will be even less bothered about his distant past in 2012.

I'm far more bothered by his horrible performance and policies as President than learning what grade he got in Algebra 102, his immunization shots, or which hospital he was born in.

If we don't have a bigger stick to beat him with than his birth certificate or college transcripts, we're fucked in 2012.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:36 AM (SY2Kh)

163 Dual citizenship does not 'obviate' anything.  Each state ignores the other.  Each state does NOT 'accept' or recognize the other.  When a person (say, for example my wife....) naturalizes, they renounce allegiance to all others....but no one else is in the room (i.e. no Kenyan officials are notified of this renounciation).  And no one requires that you notify the other state, after the fact.  "Dual citizenship" is more accurately described as "Two separate citizenships."  No overlap.  Each state treats the subject as 100% theirs, and no other's. 

Posted by: BHO, super genius at March 31, 2011 07:37 AM (dOOBu)

164

Posted by: Paladin at March 31, 2011 12:33 PM (hxLER)

Pre Terrorist days, the Government was much easier on the paper trail than they are today.  It was a LOT easier to get a passport in the 70's and early 80's than later...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:38 AM (NtXW4)

165 Gotta go folks. Wish I could have gotten here earlier and stayed longer. If you want to see a really good Knock down and drag out Verbal fist fight over this issue, check out the Pawlently "birther" thread.

I whipped EVERYBODY'S Ass! 

(Also, lots of good information there.)

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 07:38 AM (v2K2g)

166 Sorry, over at "HOT AIR."

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 07:39 AM (v2K2g)

167 I'm far more bothered by his horrible performance and policies as President than learning what grade he got in Algebra 102, his immunization shots, or which hospital he was born in.

Well, do you ever wonder why the media is so interested in broadcasting what's in your candidate's freaking garbage, and what their best friend's cousin's college roomate said about them? You think you're so "above" playing their game, when in fact, you're right there in the middle of the board, getting bent over and pounded. Happy losing.

Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at March 31, 2011 07:40 AM (9/An0)

168 We need some key states to tighten up their ballot access procedures - if Obama is willing to not produce his paperwork to get on a ballot - then there is something therein.

Posted by: Jean at March 31, 2011 07:41 AM (WkuV6)

169 Well, do you ever wonder why the media is so interested in broadcasting what's in your candidate's freaking garbage, and what their best friend's cousin's college roomate said about them?



Case in point: That Killing Team guy.  He played baseball with Palin's kid and it was OMG!

Obama has no past - no one ever even came out and said, 'I went to grade school with him.'    'I always played with him at his grandma's house.' etc.

I'd also like to know when his grandma really died.  Just sayin'.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:42 AM (penCf)

170 OK, this site says Indonesia does NOT allow dual citizenship. So... did little Barry become an Indonesian citizen when he was adopted?

Posted by: Questions I Don't Bother to Research at March 31, 2011 07:43 AM (xs5wK)

171 I agree with 143, It's great Trump is doing this, he has the money and the platform to raise it and he can take the comeback from it. He's saying all the things people think anyway - bout time someone is.

Posted by: Aghast at March 31, 2011 07:43 AM (i0DCe)

172 I personally think this story has legs.  There are basically only three reasons for him not to release his birth certificate.

1.  It helps him politically because he can paint anyone asking questions as a loon.

- I don't really buy this one.  You have to assume that his campaign would absolutely know that this position would help him during the '08 primary and beyond.  It would be a completely unnecessary gamble, and one that doesn't have much of a payoff. 

2.  He wasn't born here.

I tend to think he was born in the United States, but the current defenses of his Hawaii birth are not without their problems.  First, the newspaper announcement.  You don't have to believe that someone "faked" the newspaper clipping to dismiss it as proof.  Anyone can take out a birth announcement, and it was three days after his birth.  Many grandparents put out birth announcements (as his did) even if they don't live in the same state or even country.  It happens all the time.  Second, the certificate of live birth is not a birth certificate can be obtained years after.  So, that really can't be absolute proof that he was born here.

3.  There is something embarrassing on there.

This, I think, is actually the most likely reason for this whole issue.  We know basically nothing about Obama's past.  We have seen some his shady associations, but they are hard to conclusively prove.  I think his birth certificate would directly link him to someone that would finally call into question his upbringing and political associations and expose him as the socialist he is.  Now, maybe it says "Muslim" as his religion.  But I doubt it, plus that can be swung around and you'd get into some bigot name-calling.  I've heard the Frank Marshall Davis accusations, but I think that's pretty far-fetched too.  It's hard to speculate exactly what would be so embarrassing, but I bet that's what this is all about.

Posted by: Battered Voter at March 31, 2011 07:44 AM (mhmc7)

173 Because there's not a fucking thing you, I, or the Republican party can do about it.

"Because there's not a fucking thing you, I, or the Republican party can do about it" is not an answer to my question of why you don't seem to be bothered that our president, whom we already know to be the most sickeningly inauthentic LIAR ever to hold the office, has spent the last few years actively suppressing the documentation that would prove he's legally eligible to hold the office from which he's destroying the country.  The boldened words are not my opinion; they are factual and not in dispute.

Perhaps there may be not a fucking thing I, you, or the Republican Party can do about this.  But it certainly isn't HURTING us.  To the extent it hurts anyone, even if nothing can ever be proven, it hurts the guy in the Oval Office by sowing doubt and distrust about him to as great an extent as possible among as many Americans as possible.

So why don't you want people even TALKING about it?

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at March 31, 2011 07:44 AM (J6MSP)

174 Not to worry folks. Obama will announce that he is not seeking re-election because he wants to 'spend more time with the family" He is in deep doo doo over his Soc. Security number fraud and he knows it! (his card # issued to a woman, now dead in connecticut)The newly discovered "missing year at Columbia U. He never attended between Sept. '81 and May '81. all of his statements said he attended for two years. His Birth cert. says he is Soetoberakah. Anyone want to vote for Soetoberakak in 2012?? I don't think so so he cannot release it period. He most likely never legally changed his name back to B. H. Obama as well. His  Fullbright scholarships for foreign students etc. he has so many worms it the skeletons in his closets he will be toast sooner than later.Plus Billy Ayers will be "outing" him shortly for personal gain regarding 'dreams of my Father" authorship. He will not be willing or able to withstand all of the incoming flak so he will not seek re election. Trump is doing a service to this Nation by asking legitimate questions that  "Polenta" Pawlenty refuses to consider because "CNN told me they saw his birth cert so it must be true!"  Get real, Trump is from NYC and he has a bullshit detector that always smells a FRAUD !!!

Posted by: blogforce one at March 31, 2011 07:45 AM (hjn1y)

175 Just looked at my own certified, long-form birth certificate (you know, the one I used to get a passport, driver's license, etc., etc.) and it has no box for information about religion.

Therefore, Osama Obama's wouldn't, either. He shouldn't worry that folks might find out he's a Muzzie. As if many didn't already think so based on the way he acts.

But, since every past president has basically been hounded to produce every bit of personal data from grade-school report cards to colonoscopy records, no less should be demanded of the Mohammedan Mouthpiece.

As it stands, it's just another case of affirmative action working in his favor: he didn't have to to anything to prove himself qualified to be POTUS...he just had to want it.

Posted by: the guy who used to MrScribbler before Ace got mad at him at March 31, 2011 07:45 AM (Ulu3i)

176 142

Damn! Late to another "Birther" thread. Probably a waste of time anyway.

For what it's worth I KICKED EVERYBODY'S Ass over at Hot Air on THAT birther thread.

Good.  Confine your crazy there, nutcase.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 12:28 PM (SY2Kh)


There's always a home for you over here, HP.  Together we can be VIGILANT against teh crazee.

Posted by: Erick Erickson at March 31, 2011 07:46 AM (J6MSP)

177

Posted by: BHO, super genius at March 31, 2011 12:37 PM (dOOBu)

Funny thing, the Oath of Allegiance you take SAYS you renounce all other citizenships, HOWEVER, it is not binding in a legal sense, even to our OWN Government.

To give up citizenship you actualy have to sign a form, with the other country (this does change from country to country).  For British Citizenship, Obama would have filed a Form with their Foreign Office, OTHERWISE as we found in the War of 1812 once a Brit, always a Brit, and you are subject to British Law.

So... lets say we go to War with Britain... then Obama, as a Brit citizen 'could' be guilty of Treason to Britain, under international Law... (and yes, we have held people liable for this, we sentenced a Japanese American to death for joining the Japenese Army in WWII, because he did not fill in the proper AMERICAN paperwork, sentence changed by Presidential order).

This is the whole reason the Founders put this clause in... and ONLY for the Commander in Chief.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 07:46 AM (NtXW4)

178

I still see this as O's problem.  I am not aware of any president in our lifetime that has worked so hard to keep his past hidden.  Whether it has to do with his race, religion, country of origin, marxism, etc.  I don't know. 

The fact is this guy is sketchy.  He seemed to pop up out of nowhere and his personal history is a mystery - His problem to address- not mine. 

I'm really not in the mood these days to be told "Just forget about it". I will not let the left in this country dictate what I can and cannot ask questions about.  They lie.

Posted by: Cheri at March 31, 2011 07:47 AM (oiNtH)

179 Conservatives need to learn a thing or two about going on offense and staying there. The libs taught me that the truth of your charges don't matter, as long as they are charges. Trump can take the ball for a while.

Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at March 31, 2011 07:47 AM (9/An0)

180

This issue holds no liability for the GOP, while it creates all the doubt in the world about Obama.  So what's the problem?

Who's it creating doubt for?  Republicans / conservatives / right-leaning independents who aren't going to vote for him whether he releases it or not?

For how many people do you honestly believe that this is the deciding factor in their decision to vote for him or not?

Were I his political advisor, I'd tell him not to release it, even if there was absolutely nothing incriminating about it- not when his political opponents continue to beclown themselves over it. 

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:48 AM (SY2Kh)

181

Before the election I took Ace's position that withholding the BC was a lure and a trap. It may still be, BO making the strategic election decision based on polling and the sucesss of financial warfare that it was an arrow to keep in the quiver. Who knows? At this point its not worth the risk to go as far as Trump goes as "guessing" whats on it. That's dumb.

What's not dumb is keeping alive the collateral issue, i.e., why won't he release the historical document. This wounds credibility and supports the narrative that the President thinks he above the law. Its something even an independent or moderate can understand because everyday Americans get asked to produce these records everyday.

Let Trump be the picador on this [to the extent its limited to the "why don't you produce the damn thing" issue]. The GOP should take Poster 5's strategy to heart. When asked, say "I take the President at his word." Then when the press pushes for a declaration of orthodoxy, turn the questions around. "Why are you questioning the President's credibility? I'm not." Then come back to the fundamental message about what he's doing, not who or what he is, which is the quagmire where they want to fight. "Like I said I take the President at his word. The quadrupling of the national debt to $1.6 trillion dollars is more important to me than what hospital the President was born. Do you know how much $1.6 trillion dollar in debt is? Look at this way: if everyone man woman and child in the US had a special credit card which showed this debt, after just the about two years left in the President's term, he's added $____________ to everyone's credit card bill. And because most of the money he plans to spend happens after he is gone, the better number is $____________, If we just charged US taxpayers, it would be $___________ each. You think that's a good thing? You think it's extremist to oppose something so harmful to Americans? I don't."

Obama wants to avoid being questioned about his policies and their effectiveness [assuming there are coherent ones LOL]. Let the picadors sling the mud on this "who he is" argument. Start attacking the destructive policies. Don't let your opponent to choose the ground he's going to defend. I think Clinton was faced with two scandals: Lewinsky and the Chinese political influence scandal. They choose to defend the one that was easiest to defend and draw oxygen away from the indefensible, allowing Sen Glenn to sabotage and undermine Sen Fred Thompson's hearings on Chinese influence in American elections.

 I think that the adoption and the legal consequences of the adoption are the reason BO does not release the BC. Not because he's ineligible for the office, but because in light to the circumstances, eligibility cannot be easily explained and they don't want to be put on the defensive explaining it. Its easier to go on offense and mock the questioners and get some political benefit.

BTW, for you legal beagles, has anyone argued that by publishing what birth records he has published, that BO has waived the privacy protection claims to other similar Hawaiian docs?

Posted by: Mr. Barky at March 31, 2011 07:48 AM (qwK3S)

182

the problem is the single-minded focus on the birth certificate, it's a side issue.

the real question is: has Obama always been a U.S. citizen?

he went to public school in Indonesia, did he become an Indonesian citizen at that point.... no one knows because the records are locked up.

did Obama apply for student-aid as a forgein national when he entered Occidental College.... no one knows because the records are locked up.

 

either one of these could potentially make him ineligible, one or both of them probably does.

 

aww, nevermind who gives a flying fuck about the Constitution anyway.

 

 

 

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2011 07:48 AM (jdOk/)

183

He was born in Hawaii in 1961. The only form the State of Hawaii can legally release has been seen. There was a birth announcement in 2 Honolulu newspapers for Barack Obama for August 13th, 1961.

Do you really think that his Red Chinese "handlers" planted those back in '61 in preparation for the day when their little Manchurian Candidate would win the presidency?

There's something sketchy on his long form BC, is all. Like he's White, or Arab, or he's Muslim. But he's a citizen.  

Posted by: Log Cabin at March 31, 2011 07:50 AM (jShXB)

184 I fail to see why we shouldn't just let The Donald take this as far as he will go.  He also is crabbing about china,  how we should restructure the debt,  how we are not being reimbursed for doing the dirty work for the Arab League in Libya,  etc.

He speaks bluntly and brings up some valid issues, the BC being only one of them. He has also discussed the absence of any other information about Obama and talked about how Ayers probably wrote his first book.

It's quite possible that this is a plan backed by Hillary.   If Obama's numbers fall enough,  I bet she would consent to a draft.

I don't care who is behind it,  whether it's the Clintons or Trump himself just looking for publicity.  It is causing doubt amongst the independents (52% of whom now think there is something fishy) and that's good.

At this juncture I will take Hillary and Bill over Obama,  if we cannot produce a winning candidate for our side.  Hillary would at least have Bill to help out and would not make such obnoxious speeches. And Bill dresses better than Michelle.

And I most of all think that Ace,  who wants courage out of the members of Congress,  should quit wringing his hands about this issue.

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 31, 2011 07:50 AM (Fo83G)

185

aww, nevermind who gives a flying fuck about the Constitution anyway.

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2011 12:48 PM (jdOk/)

A Republic Sir, if you can keep it...

Posted by: Ben Franklin, nude, taking an Air Bath at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (NtXW4)

186 "Maybe he is a hermaphrodite"

Maybe he is a Kenyan/ Indonesian, Muslim, and a Hermaphrodite.  All we really about Urkel is that he's a Marxist Sasquatchophile.


Posted by: Foole In The Rain at March 31, 2011 07:53 AM (72Nk7)

187

Well, do you ever wonder why the media is so interested in broadcasting what's in your candidate's freaking garbage, and what their best friend's cousin's college roomate said about them? You think you're so "above" playing their game, when in fact, you're right there in the middle of the board, getting bent over and pounded. Happy losing.

We already lost that battle in 2008.  Fighting the same losing battle again would be foolish.

Obama doesn't keep "joking" about this because it's in his best interest for it to go away.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:53 AM (SY2Kh)

188 Who's it creating doubt for?  Republicans / conservatives / right-leaning independents who aren't going to vote for him whether he releases it or not?

The average not-paying-attention American is swayed heavily by sheer repetition, which is why the libs never ever ever stop repeating their slander.

Big picture, you want the losing route, which is to give up and let the libs get what they want and "hope" that suddenly policy (of all stupid things) is going to swing a presidential election against an incumbent.

Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at March 31, 2011 07:54 AM (9/An0)

189

There's something sketchy on his long form BC, is all. Like he's White, or Arab, or he's Muslim. But he's a citizen.  

Sigh...

One more time:  THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE DOES NOT INCLUDE A FIELD FOR RELIGION.

It does include fields for the races of the father and mother, but NOT the child.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 07:56 AM (SY2Kh)

190

Obama doesn't keep "joking" about this because it's in his best interest for it to go away.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 12:53 PM (SY2Kh)

No good Sir, he Jokes about it in order to dimiss it.  However, Legal questions never really go away, until answered.  They can be postponed, but eventualy evidence will come to light which will shed light upon this issue.

The question then becomes, can he dismiss the legal question long enough to win election Again?

Posted by: Ben Franklin, nude, taking an Air Bath at March 31, 2011 07:56 AM (NtXW4)

191 sock off

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2011 07:56 AM (mhmc7)

192

Posted by: La Mauvaise New Yorkaise at March 31, 2011 12:21 PM (8uZ8A)

Most of what you had to provide is required for the Illinois Bar....inclouding parking tickets (yea --- that took me th elongest part to complete). Strangly....I do not remember having to produce my birth certificate. And by Supreme Court Rule -- bar application is not a public record. The only exception is if you lie on it and the application becomes evidence in a miscnduct hearing.

Posted by: Prof. Mallamutt, good at math...still can't balance his checkbook at March 31, 2011 07:57 AM (OWjjx)

193

We already lost that battle in 2008.  Fighting the same losing battle again would be foolish.

Obama doesn't keep "joking" about this because it's in his best interest for it to go away.

He keeps "joking" about it because it puts those crazy "birthers" on the defensive from ridicule. Doubt and mistrust are powerful motivators in an election, and sowing those seeds takes willpower.

Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at March 31, 2011 07:57 AM (9/An0)

194

Ok, Hollow. I knew you were gonna jump on that. But there is likely something sketchy. Not enough to disqualify him, just enough to damage him.

 

Posted by: Log Cabin at March 31, 2011 07:57 AM (jShXB)

195 Agree with #189.

Posted by: Alana at March 31, 2011 07:58 AM (/N/wg)

196

There was a birth announcement in 2 Honolulu newspapers for Barack Obama for August 13th, 1961.
Do you really think that his Red Chinese "handlers" planted those back in '61 in preparation for the day when their little Manchurian Candidate would win the presidency?

No, I think his commie mother wired the birth announcements Western Union  to the Honolulu newspapers to establish a link to U.S. welfare benefits because Lefties luvs them some socialist benefits.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 07:58 AM (J74Py)

197 Even if the came out with a birth certificate that said he was an English citizen would he be impeached?

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2011 11:46 AM (M9Ie6) 




If you recall, my old man is Kenyan too, but my BC looks almost exactly like Trump's, though I was born later and in another state.  On mine there's no listing of religion or citizenship for me or for my parents.  Just dad's name, mom's maiden name, their ages, their races, their birthplaces, signatures, blah blah.

I do agree that Trump's speculation on Obama's religion wrt to a hidden BC is silly, since I haven't seen one BC which lists either parent's religion.

If a BC does exist, he's hiding something else.





Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (T2/zQ)

198 What kind of moron thinks Trump is a serious candidate?!

Oh, that's right. Ace.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (IuKAf)

199

And typing isn't my strong suit - clearly.

Pat --- I would like to buy a vowel...alot of them.

Posted by: Prof. Mallamutt, AOSHQ Spelling Bee Champion at March 31, 2011 08:00 AM (OWjjx)

200

The newspaper thing is a red herring. The grandparents could have had them put in. mybe they wanted him to have citizenship ?

If someone can get one of these things to fly: SS number fraud, college records etc it will open pandoras box.

 

Posted by: Jackhole at March 31, 2011 08:02 AM (+qHxi)

201

The average not-paying-attention American is swayed heavily by sheer repetition, which is why the libs never ever ever stop repeating their slander.

Big picture, you want the losing route, which is to give up and let the libs get what they want and "hope" that suddenly policy (of all stupid things) is going to swing a presidential election against an incumbent.

You mean the average American who didn't really give a shit about his birth certificate or college records in 2008, doesn't give a shit about them now, and won't give a shit about them in 2012?

Years of a shitty economy, high unemployment, unsustainable debt, incoherent foreign policy, a complete lack of leadership ability... you're going to tell me that none of those are major concerns among the average voter?

Every minute spent asking about his birth certificate is a wasted minute that could be better used to criticize his horrible performance as President.

The Birthers have been engaged in the same repetition for close to three years, and it hasn't stuck.  If it hasn't by now, it won't.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 08:02 AM (SY2Kh)

202

Years of a shitty economy, high unemployment, unsustainable debt, incoherent foreign policy, a complete lack of leadership ability... you're going to tell me that none of those are major concerns among the average voter?

I think the birth certificate says he is Muslim!

Posted by: Poster Who Doesn't Read Any of the Prior Comments at March 31, 2011 08:04 AM (OWjjx)

203

"No, I think his commie mother wired the birth announcements Western Union  to the Honolulu newspapers to establish a link to U.S. welfare benefits because Lefties luvs them some socialist benefits"

That's the beauty of conspiracy theories. There is always a convoluted explanation for every single thing that might invalidate the theory, no matter how far fetched.

Sorry, but the simplest explanation is the most likely to be correct.

Posted by: Log Cabin at March 31, 2011 08:05 AM (jShXB)

204

Ok, Hollow. I knew you were gonna jump on that. But there is likely something sketchy. Not enough to disqualify him, just enough to damage him.

I keep asking, and have yet to recieve a convincing answer: Of the information included on a birth certificate, what could possibly damage him politically?

Here's an example of what a 1961 Hawaiian birth certificate looks like.  Where's the potential damage?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 08:07 AM (SY2Kh)

205 While you are still my favorite moron, why do you think this hurts Republicans?  How many people, Republicans or otherwise, think Trump is a real honest-to-goodness Republican?  How many think he is a publicity hound?  If Trump gets traction out of this, it proves that a lot of people think that the GOP is a bunch of stuffed shirts: Romney-care, Mitch Daniels Indiana Care, Huckabee - what?, Gingrich and his affairs.... Really, the list goes on and on.  If Trump is actually a real contender, it proves GOP suckage in a big way.  If not, then another Trump publicity stunt  goes down the tubes.  As far as Republicans rising to the bait... well, that assumes a backbone not yet in evidence. 

Posted by: Scott at March 31, 2011 08:08 AM (mMBf/)

206 That little question of "we all have to show our birth certificates all the time so why should he be any different, what makes him special?" is really the question that trump is asking.  The person interviewing him pulls out the other stuff but the core question is as stated above.  And, in that context, even his core constituency is starting to "wonder why he just doesn't put it out there and be done with it".  It's not a matter of his religion, or his birthplace or his progeny, it's become a matter of his stubbornness.  Stubbornness is viewed as a negative character trait, even by the left and his stubbornness has morphed into petulance which is even worse.  So then you add the matter of this little "action" in Libya which congress is running around saying "they weren't told about, that it's the "action" that must never be mentioned" and you have yourself the right set up for everyone to start wanting answers to perceived dumb questions from the past.  As my uber lefty friend pointed out "he's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf and we all know how that ended".  Aside from being astonished that he said that I  realized that he was thinking of the political landscape and the real wolf looming on the sidelines with her positive numbers going through the roof, while the little boy's positives, cause he keeps crying wolf are going down.  If you think it's a problem for trump, nope, he knows the answers to all questions he asks, the trump organization has access to PI's and they've played with the big boys for a long time.  It is a problem for the libs and the Obama camp as the wolf in pantsuits is breathing down their neck and the base is starting to wonder "what's the big deal, why is this an issue, just publish the damned thing already and be done with it".  that's his problem and he doesn't even see it, which is worse.

Posted by: curious at March 31, 2011 08:09 AM (k1rwm)

207 I think Donald is the perfect person to pursue this.He's out spoken and kind of out there so it doesn't tag the rest of the Republican party.

  It seems to me there is something on the BC that Baracky thinks will hurt him. I can't see where it saying his Religion is muslim would hurt him. A new born doesn't have a say in what a Parent puts on the BC. It has to be more on Parentage or Adoption to me. Of course I have no idea.

Posted by: Donna at March 31, 2011 08:10 AM (bdE9c)

208 Frank Marshall Davis.

I think this is most likely where the answer is.

Posted by: MarkC at March 31, 2011 08:10 AM (yPPVC)

209 "No, I think his commie mother wired the birth announcements Western Union  to the Honolulu newspapers to establish a link to U.S. welfare benefits because Lefties luvs them some socialist benefits"

It doesn't have to be that complicated.  The grandparents posted his birth announcement in the newspaper three days after his birth.  Grandparents are proud of their grandkids.  They do that sort of thing.

It doesn't prove or disprove anything about his birth other than that it happened.  Somewhere.

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2011 08:11 AM (mhmc7)

210

I keep asking, and have yet to recieve a convincing answer: Of the information included on a birth certificate, what could possibly damage him politically?

Here's an example of what a 1961 Hawaiian birth certificate looks like.  Where's the potential damage?

Father:  Frank Marshall Davis

Something like that.  I'm not saying that's what's there, but something like that.

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2011 08:13 AM (mhmc7)

211

Hollowpoint, do you read any other posts?

 

it ain't about the birth certificate...IT DOESN'T MATTER

 

HIS FATHER WAS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN...HE'S NOT NATURAL BORN by the  us constitution  BOTH PARENTS NEED TO BE CITIZENS...get it???

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 08:15 AM (oyqh/)

212 The Birthers have been engaged in the same repetition for close to three years, and it hasn't stuck.  If it hasn't by now, it won't.

It's not about the damage of a single issue. It needs to be part of a "fabric of questions" that appear to have to be asked before people cast their ballots again. Trust is a powerful motivator. People want to believe they can trust the people they are voting for. This is simply about driving the ball down the field.

As for your question about 2008, McCain was Lib Lite, and people wanted the real thing.

Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at March 31, 2011 08:16 AM (9/An0)

213

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 12:56 PM (SY2Kh)

Actually, the origional copy, from the Hospital (California 1959) did have my Parents Religion, and both their and my Race... and a footy print...

The copy I got later from the State? had much less information... and no footy print...

Records were really hit and miss back then, and somtimes it even depended on what Hospital filled out the form... (my Sister, a year older, was born in a different hospital, same town, but her form looks different..).

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 08:17 AM (NtXW4)

214

Trump could make this a winning issue if he would just focus on the constitutional apect of it: that we have a constitutional requirement with no enforcement provision, and enough questions in Obama's case to make it an issue. If Trump trumpets the fact that TWO Supreme Court justices have already made public statements that they are in favor of hearing this case (Thomas and Roberts), then it becomes a slam dunk. Obama's game-playing, if thats what it really is, becomes a losing game, not a winning game, and just the fact that he is playing it, whatever the outcome, becomes a big stain, that it took the involvement of Supreme Court justices to get him to stop playing games with a constitutional requirement.

But I agree with Trump: it pretty clear at this point that there is SOMETHING Obama does not want the country to see. There are a couple of credible reports now from insiders in the Hawaii records division that there IS NO long form birth certificate. This is supported by the recent incident with Obama's buddy Abercrombie, the new Governor of Hawaii, who made a campaign promise to end the speculations about Obama's birth certificate. The first thing he did was a records search, after which he would not confirm that there was a birth certificate, only that Hawaii had SOMETHING about Obama's birth. Maybe somebody sent them the newspaper announcement, who knows. But Abercrombie's failure to affirm that there even is a long form birth certificate is very strong evidence that there is not one. His campaign promise to clarify the matter was front page news. So was his records search once elected. Then -- pffft.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at March 31, 2011 08:17 AM (kTTUz)

215 It doesn't matter now if he DOES produce a long form birth certificate. His reputation as lying SOB is so firmly established by now that NO ONE in their right mind would accept it as legitimate and not a complete forgery.
And someone please explain to me why ANY and EVERY citizen of this country, who stand to be seriously effected (detrimentally)  by the laws this guy has and will sign, is not deemed to have "standing" to request the court to order the release of the document in question! It's absolutely outrageous! If he is ineligible to be president, then every law he as signed is null and void, including Obamacare! This is a big f'n deal people. Don't let them silence you with their phony ridicule.
Obama-prove it or lose it!

Posted by: Lilkidmom at March 31, 2011 08:18 AM (K3UXM)

216 Never ask a question that you don't know the answer to.  Do you think Trump is stupid enough to ask about the Chicago Jesus' BC without knowing what the real deal is?  I don't.  B. Hussein has spent millions on lawyers whose sole objective is to keep the lid on his BC.  Hard to keep a secret when there is a team of people working on this, someone could have been bought off. 

Posted by: Tony at March 31, 2011 08:19 AM (2tGS3)

217 187 "Maybe he is a hermaphrodite"

No joke: My first drivers license listed me as a female.  My birth certificate says male, and I definitely did not look like a girl.  The DMV lady just hit the wrong key.

This had many amusing ramifications, as I somehow advanced through the ranks of the "Miss Teen Ohio" competition without any effort at all, and got all sorts of college scholarship mail.

Imagine if the whole 'birther' thing is because of stupid typo like that on Obama's birth certificate.  Too much time has now passed for Obama to simply release it and have the typo laughed off -- it's became a "scandal" and so Obama must continue to keep it secret.

Posted by: wooga at March 31, 2011 08:20 AM (2p0e3)

218

That's the beauty of conspiracy theories. There is always a convoluted explanation for every single thing that might invalidate the theory, no matter how far fetched.

Nothing convoluted about it.  Aaah, did I burn your convoluted straw man?

It isn't a theory that Obastard is concealing his long form birth certificate and commies do love to get socialist welfare benefits.  Stanley Ann wasn't exactly salt of the earth and she knew she wasn't going to put in much "mommy" time.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 08:20 AM (J74Py)

219

For God's sake, make it stop!!

Birth certificates do not generally have religion on it.

I've been doing genealogy for over 30 years, and I can't recall much of any sort of official government record that tells you a person's religion. Maybe in personnel records for the military, so they know whether to put a cross or star-of-David on your headstone, but that's about it. I expect it's a separation of Church & State thing.

Hawaii had only recently become a state, so maybe it's somehow different, but I doubt it. For one thing, an infant doesn't really have religious beliefs, and even in Christianity might not be considered a Christian until baptized.

The real issue is who this Obama character thinks he is, that he doesn't have to produce documentation, like everybody else.

Beyond that, he could have been adopted, or - my favotite theory - is that it identifies him as "mulatto", which some people take offense to.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 08:22 AM (2lTU+)

220 What about The Donald's Hair?  Have we seen its birth certificate.  I think its a Canadian Albino Squirrel.

Posted by: Oh no he didn't at March 31, 2011 08:22 AM (FQACB)

221   51 Is it possible that he scribbled his NCAA bracket on the back of the BC with "Cracker-Ass Duke" in the final?

Posted by: IreneFingIrene at March 31, 2011 11:57 AM (JKe0g)

 

 

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Posted by: fugazi at March 31, 2011 08:24 AM (4bvZp)

222

do you idiots know why rush is promoting rubio 4 president???

 

r any of u smart enuf to understand this tactic???

 

 

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 08:24 AM (oyqh/)

223 This is a loser for the GOP and I question Trump's motives for this coming at this time. Has he been promised something in a future Obama administration? This reads just like a "blocking" move by an opponent who expects that question to come up in the next campaign. Red herring time. Undermine from the other side.

But this citizenship question did not stop Obama from being elected and it won't stop him from being re-elected in 2012 if the GOP squanders time and opportunity on Area 51 quests such as this.

I don't give a good goddamn if Obama was born on Mars and every news organization in the country has colluded to hide that fact. I don't care if he sacrifices chickens in the Rose Garden under full moons. He could dress up like a bunny rabbit and pass out Easter eggs in Congress, I do not care.

Vote.The.Idiot.Out.

Period.

Posted by: Full Moon at March 31, 2011 08:24 AM (DtbEv)

224 Nothing "possibly" about that.  Barky admitted it, himself, on his stopthesmears web site when he pasted the lines from factcheck.org stating that Barky was born a British subject and later got that swapped for Kenyan citizenship when they got their independence.

There is NO QUESTION at all that Barky was a dual citizen, involving at least Britain and Kenya and possibly Indonesia (and who knows where else).  That dual citizenship obviated any natural born American status Barky might have had.  He is ineligible.  End of story.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at March 31, 2011 12:30 PM (G/MYk)






Has there been any state which lists the child's citizenship or religion on a BC?

I never knew anything about any possible dual citizenship issues (for me) until Obama showed up on the scene and people began to investigate his various issues.  I had to show my BC when I joined the USAF and, of course, it says that my father was born in Kenya.  However, my US citizenship was never an issue, even when I held a TS code word clearance.  There was never any question of dual citizenship.

About Obama "admitting" that he had "dual citizenship":  I think he said it just to bolster his "citizen of the world" credentials.  And he is ineligible....if Barack Obama Sr. is listed on his BC as his father.

He's hiding his paternity, I feel it in my gut.  And if it's the case that BHO Sr. is not his father, there goes his long-held persona right out the window.  Dreams from Who's Your Daddy?




Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 08:24 AM (T2/zQ)

225

Posted by: Hollowpoint  "Where's the potential damage?"

 

Upper left hand Corner, Box 3.

 

 

There are two of him!

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 31, 2011 08:25 AM (xMT+4)

226 if your still obsessing over the birth certificate, then probably too stupid...

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 08:25 AM (oyqh/)

227

While you are still my favorite moron, why do you think this hurts Republicans?  How many people, Republicans or otherwise, think Trump is a real honest-to-goodness Republican?

How many people think that Meghan McCain is a real "honest-to-goodness Republican"?  Doesn't stop the MSM from giving her a platform so long as she's useful to their cause.

So long as he's being a jackass, Trump will be lauded by the MSM as the true face of the Republican party.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 08:26 AM (SY2Kh)

228

There's a big danger in the where-there's-smoke-there's-fire approach. Yeah, it's kinda spooky that Obama just lets this one fester. I'm guessing that either A.) There's something damaging and they don't want it released, or B.) It's too much fun watching the already-marginalized jump up and down on an issue that only serves to weaken and damage them further. It's pure cynicism, not fear that is driving these people.

Saddam Hussein had a similar approach with WMD's. We had some evidence that he was building or keeping WMD's and when taken with his go-to-hell attitude regarding inspections, the intel guys concluded that he must have them. In reality, it was a bluff to keep from looking weak.

I'm questioning what would happen IF Obama were proven to be illegally occupying the office. I'm betting the answer is a fat nothing. He might step down, but probably would not. I can hear the arguments now… “The people elected him anyway, regardless of where he was born,” or “That part of the Constitution was only relevant in the late 18th century. It doesn’t apply today.” We lack the will to pass a budget; do you really think we have the will to try to remove someone who practically rode into Washington on an ass, with palm fronds lining their path? (Here’s a freebie: If you ride into town involves the Equus africanus asinus, it usually doesn’t end well. 

Posted by: GGinNC at March 31, 2011 08:26 AM (x7byD)

229

B. Hussein has spent millions on lawyers whose sole objective is to keep the lid on his BC.  Hard to keep a secret when there is a team of people working on this, someone could have been bought off. 

False.  This is yet another myth of the birther nuts.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 08:28 AM (SY2Kh)

230

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 01:22 PM (2lTU+)

My Theory is that his records were sealed when he was abopted by Soteoro, and show Sot as the Father... thus his LEGAL name is Barry Soteoro, not Barrak Obama.

He was Barry in Indonesia, then on the flight back to Hawaii to live with his Grandparents suddenly became Barrak again... without anyone doing the paperwork.

Thus, College? Work? Bar Records? Are all under a false name.

He then went back pre election, and petitioned the court to revert his records, as the biological parents were dead... thus the Cert of Live Birth we see...

However, he spent much of his life, and ran, under a false name, which as a LAWYER would bring into question both his Legal Knowledge, and if he ever attempted to 'play' the system as a Foreigner...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 08:29 AM (NtXW4)

231

Here's an example of what a 1961 Hawaiian birth certificate looks like.  Where's the potential damage?

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2011 01:13 PM (mhmc7)




My 1961 Illinois BC looks exactly like that.  Must have been a standard form for most states back then.

Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 08:30 AM (T2/zQ)

232

HIS FATHER WAS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN...HE'S NOT NATURAL BORN by the  us constitution  BOTH PARENTS NEED TO BE CITIZENS...get it???

Yes, I get that you're relying on a version of the Constitution that resides solely in your fantasies.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 08:32 AM (SY2Kh)

233

First, the idea that this issue hurts republicans is ludicrous. The left has been banging the birther drum for two years, in that time they lost the governorships of Virginia and New Jersey, Ted Kennedy's seat, and took an epic assraping in 2010.

Second, This issue is being solved by a dozen states changing their ballot access laws to force candidates to fully document their eligibility. The interesting thing is http://tinyurl.com/49bfa9ethe Soetoro regime has committed to fighting this movment.

All it will take is one state to pass this, and things will get very interesting.

Finally, the Hillbuzz theory, that he was legally adopted and his name legally changed to Barry Soetoro, has a lot of evidence to recommend it. Why he won't release his birth certificate, college transcripts, why he uses a fake social security number - everything.

Swearing an oath under an assumed name, is a felony with a penalty of up to five years, so it's not just a narrative booboo, it's hard time.

Posted by: Rebar at March 31, 2011 08:32 AM (uPpYX)

234

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 01:28 PM (SY2Kh)

Sooo... all those lawyers he had squashing these cases worked for free???

Pro Bono Obama?

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 08:32 AM (NtXW4)

235 I think Obama voted present on who he was into his 20s.  That is why this is so embarrassing.  Let me explain.  Whatever name was on his birth certificate to begin with, he became Barry Sotero when his mother took up with an Indonesian national.  As far as I know, there is no way to "undo" an adoption.  The child is either adopted a second time by the new spouse of the parent with custody or, what happens most often, upon becoming an adult the adopted child legally changes their name back.  The same usually applies to citizenship.  Most nations will not deny the claims of a child who was once their citizen because as a minor that child obtained the citizenship of another nation via a parent's remarriage.  After all, that wasn't the child's choice. 

We know he was Barry Obama to high school classmates.  But what if young Barry then switched identities back and forth as convenient for special college admissions/financial aide treatment or the ability to travel to places like Pakistan on an old Indonesian passport?  That scenario fits what he know of his liking to keep his options open for as long as possible.  It also explains why documents normally dug up for presidential candidates have remained hidden. 

Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at March 31, 2011 08:35 AM (9u7xA)

236

No worries,  Jammie is reporting Sully is now entreating the TEAs for help to bring down the dictator.

I'd say the expiration date of Jan. 2008 is being noticed.

Posted by: gary gulrud at March 31, 2011 08:36 AM (/g2vP)

237

Yes, I get that you're relying on a version of the Constitution that resides solely in your fantasies.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 01:32 PM (SY2Kh)

 

Hmmm.....

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

find no fault with the introductory clause , which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…[6]

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 08:36 AM (NtXW4)

238 Second, This issue is being solved by a dozen states changing their ballot access laws to force candidates to fully document their eligibility. The interesting thing is http://tinyurl.com/49bfa9ethe Soetoro regime has committed to fighting this movment.

Exactly.  One or two swing states (Florida, for instance, which is now dominated by Repubs) and this will get really interesting.

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2011 08:37 AM (mhmc7)

239 @212
You keep asserting that without any foundation.

My reading of the 14th amendment and U.S. Code (Title VIII, Section 1401) does not conform with your assertion that the parents' citizenship matters if the child is born in the U.S. and assuming the child is under U.S. jurisdiction (ie: not the child of a diplomat). 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 08:38 AM (pW2o8)

240

What I think is very interesting about this guy is how he’s adopted black culture like a 40 year old accountant who buys a Harley and suddenly sees himself as a "Biker."

Our “Walter Mitty” President is bi-racial and raised by either white people or Muslims in Asia. He is not a descendant of slaves, has no family history of oppression in this country, yet he's considered the first black president, with all of the emotional encumbrances entailed. Huh? He wears his "blackness" like a cheap suit, worn as an affect and prop for a truly evil man because he believes--correctly, so it seems--that it shields him from scrutiny and ingratiates him with a large portion of the electorate.

IF there is any truth to the birther POV, it would be to prove that the invention of his narrative was purely for cynical, political purposes. I guess that there’s a mild point in trying to get to the bottom of it, but recognize that anybody who does so is sacrificing their credibility for only a marginal promise of potential gain. When it comes to figuring out ways to go after this guy, we suffer an embarrassment of riches. That said, the done, then undone, adoption theory seems interesting, but that wouldn't remove him from being eligible, just make him a liar. Is that really a surprise?

Posted by: GGinNC at March 31, 2011 08:40 AM (x7byD)

241

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 01:38 PM (pW2o

 Minor v. Happersett – wherein the Supreme Court stated:

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [88 U.S. 162, 168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.

 

Emphasis mine... The Supreme Court had doubts... thats good enough for me to justify ASKING the question.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 08:41 AM (NtXW4)

242 Hey, baldi!  How's it shaking? 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 08:41 AM (pW2o8)

243 Where's the potential damage?

And yet he won't release it.  That speaks for itself, no matter how much howling you do...

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at March 31, 2011 08:42 AM (PMGbu)

244 I don't think birth certificates list religion, but it might list that as his parents' faith. Or Communism or something silly like that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2011 08:43 AM (61b7k)

245 You cite  Minor v. Happersett circa 1875. 

I cite U.S. Code  Title 8 > Chapter 12 > Subchapter III > Part I > Section 1401

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

Title 8 of the US Code as currently published by the US Government reflects the laws passed by Congress as of Feb.1, 2010, and it is this version that is published here.


Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 08:44 AM (pW2o8)

246 Potentially damaging things from birth certificate:

1.  If he was adopted by Soetero,  then that information would have supplanted his birth certificate.   If he never changed his name legally back to Obama,  then he has used an invalid name all these years. (This is Hillbuzz's theory.)

2.  What if Stanley Ann was not the mother?  What if a biracial baby was the product of a union between Stanley Ann's father and a black woman?  What if they decided to pawn the baby off as Stanley Ann's so as to avoid even greater scandal (as in black young gal making charges in court)?  This would explain why Stanley Ann dumped him in Hawaii and why Obama wasn't particularly close to her.

Both of these are possibilities and have nothing to do with whether he was born in Hawaii.  As Trump said,  something's fishy.

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 31, 2011 08:45 AM (Fo83G)

247 244 Hey, baldi!  How's it shaking? 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 01:41 PM (pW2o



Hey, Chica!  Shouting in the wilderness as usual.

I'm in the midst of putting out a new edition of Tale of the Tigers (with a new cover) and writing a new novel...doom, gloom and dystopia.  Monty will like it!

How's it going with you?

Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 08:48 AM (T2/zQ)

248 Posted by: Miss Marple at March 31, 2011 01:45 PM

Yeah, but neither is disqualifying.  The first just reinforces that he's a slimey lying crap weasel - but it won't shake the kool-aid drinkers from supporting him.  The second scenario actually makes him somewhat sympathetic.

I think he may have fooled around with his biography throughout his youth/young adult to game the system to his advantage (for scholarships and such)... but even that I'd put on his parents/guardians more than on him. 


Trump can keep beating this drum, but I think any serious candidate should keep their comments on it to a bare minimum.  I would not carry Obama's water for him, but I would not let myself be seen as pushing it, either. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 08:48 AM (pW2o8)

249 How's it going with you?

Very busy.  We're trying to buy a house (crazy I guess but what the heck) and thought we'd found a great one but it turned out to have structural/foundation issues so it's back to the drawing board.

You're feeling ok? 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 08:50 AM (pW2o8)

250

I have never seen a direct quote where an Hawaiian official clearly states that an actual, long-form birth certificate exists. The frequently quoted Fukimo used weasel words and the press uses the following quote in stories, claming that she has seen the document. Knowing the debate, one would think she would use much clearer language if in fact she has seen this elusive document.

I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago..."

 

Posted by: PC14 at March 31, 2011 08:52 AM (XB+w8)

251 Remember, folks... if something is repeated enough without being CONCLUSIVELY disproven, it becomes FACT in the public mindset. The more D. Trump says he is a fraud and rhat hew has no birth certificate. the more it becomes true in everybody's eyes.

Posted by: blogforce one at March 31, 2011 08:52 AM (hjn1y)

252 129

if it says religion "muslim" he has claimed how many times he's never been one? but his parents had considered him enough of one to make him have to explain his apostacy since he is now claiming to be a "Christian" 

 if the race says "mullato" well that opens the racial can of worms and he is supposed to be raceless...

if the paternity is not the kenyan but his grandfather's ped, commie friend.....

Agree. With Muslims, though, he can lie about his current "Christianity" or anything else: taqquiya. He wants, badly, to be a brotha, and is very dependent on blacks blindly supporting him. I think it is the race issue/and or the legal name issue, more than the Hawaii issue (although that story is murky as well, considering his dead mother's hopping around the globe in his early weeks). If his name is not legally BO, but Barry Sorento, then is every law he signed moot...including Obamacare?

Did he get foreign aide (Fullbright) to pay for Columbia and Harvard? Is that why (other than crappy grades and/or taking radical classes) he does not release his school records? Regardless, something ain't right, and a lot of the American people think he is hiding something. Either that, or it is part of his not giving a damn, full socialism ahead, full throttle Imperial highness crap.

He may really be an alien (joking), hence the blue/purple lips. I originally thought he had heart problems (Marfan's) due to his lips and gangly bod. Have not noticed the blue lips as much lately, but he does look puny, tapeworms and all. He doesn't release his health records, either, as other presidents have been required to do.

The Donald Trump has nothing to lose and all to gain in having the cohones to do this. He probably does not care one way or the other how this plays out. Go Donald!

 

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at March 31, 2011 08:53 AM (oTjfX)

253

I think he has the birth certificate and, if pressed, will release it, which will damage (although not fatally, but still) anyone who's made an issue of it. - Ace.

Would you spend $3 mil (so far) in attorney's fees just to jerk around half of the electorate and then produce a document and say, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah?

Posted by: RushBabe at March 31, 2011 08:56 AM (urYpw)

254 242

What I think is very interesting about this guy is how he’s adopted black culture like a 40 year old accountant who buys a Harley and suddenly sees himself as a "Biker."

Our “Walter Mitty” President is bi-racial and raised by either white people or Muslims in Asia. He is not a descendant of slaves, has no family history of oppression in this country, yet he's considered the first black president, with all of the emotional encumbrances entailed. Huh? He wears his "blackness" like a cheap suit, worn as an affect and prop for a truly evil man because he believes--correctly, so it seems--that it shields him from scrutiny and ingratiates him with a large portion of the electorate.

Posted by: GGinNC at March 31, 2011 01:40 PM (x7byD)




One thing which must be taken into account: black Americans consider Africans to be "black" also.  (I reject the notion that American slavery's history is inherent in the identity of "blackness," but that's just me.) 

To me, however, it seems that he holds himself out as "better" than the American who is descended from American slaves.

The irony is that, if it is revealed that some average black American is his actual biological father, he will have lost that ability to condescend to American blacks.  That's what he's hiding.

Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 08:57 AM (T2/zQ)

255

I'm 90% sure that my birth certificate (the one that I've used for everything from Little League to enlisting) has my footprint inked on it as well as a spot that tags me as Roman Catholic.  The 10% of doubt is reserved for the possibility that I'm thinking of a Baptismal certificate or something that is kept in the same file. I really don't feel like digging it out, anyone else born in MA have theirs handy?

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 31, 2011 08:57 AM (xMT+4)

256 You're feeling ok? 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 01:50 PM (pW2o




Pretty good.  Working (writing) helps!

Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 08:59 AM (T2/zQ)

257

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 01:44 PM (pW2o

Sooo... its CONGRESS who decides what is Constitutional?

The same Congress who decided that Regulating Interstate Commerce means they can FORCE you to buy somthing?

/head spins...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 09:01 AM (NtXW4)

258

Both parents need to be citizens to be a "natural born Citizen"

 do you people do any research at all?

Not true, Mr. Meticulous Researcher

Posted by: beedubya at March 31, 2011 09:11 AM (AnTyA)

259 Seeing as zero has won two elections by getting divorce decrees unsealed--that's illegal, btw--a BC ought to be a cinch.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at March 31, 2011 09:15 AM (wxHHM)

260

Since there is no field on an Hawaii, long-form, birth certificate for religion it's pretty stupid to keep advancing the Muslim theory.

So, I think the controversy, if a document actually does exist, has to do with the identity of the parents and their race.

If the document does exist and Obama is playing this as a political game, then he's one very sick little skinny puppy.

Posted by: PC14 at March 31, 2011 09:15 AM (XB+w8)

261

So, I think the controversy, if a document actually does exist, has to do with the identity of the parents and their race.

Documentation exists, as attestified to by numerous officials. But, what kind of documents has never been explained. It is law in Hawaii that you can get a state BC without having been born there, even outside the country.

All it takes to get that BC is an affidavit from the parents, so we're not sure an actual long form even exists.

I'm not saying that's the case, but why doesn't he just produce it and put the matter to rest.

Posted by: beedubya at March 31, 2011 09:35 AM (AnTyA)

262 Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 01:32 PM (NtXW4)

I personally know attorneys who worked for free, totally free and paid their own air fare back and forth to go to other states and work on his behalf with only the promise of someone's couch to sleep on for the weeks they were there.  

I know a person who worked very hard for him and then didn't get offered a job and this idiot has agreed to come back and work for him again with still no job in the offing.  So yes the leagues of stupid do not stop when you receive a JD.

Posted by: curious at March 31, 2011 09:37 AM (k1rwm)

263 Forget the birth certificate, I still am confused on his naturalization status. If he lived in Indonesia and went to public school there (only for citizens) his dad must have naturalized him. At the age of 18, he would have had to reclaim his US status to become a citizen here. And how did he travel to Pakistan as a student when they were not allowed?

Posted by: sped at March 31, 2011 09:38 AM (UvAYo)

264

Both parents need to be citizens to be a "natural born Citizen"

 do you people do any research at all?

Not true, Mr. Meticulous Researcher

Posted by: beedubya at March 31, 2011 02:11 PM (AnTyA)

 

and saying it's not true makes you right, how???

 

try looking up/studying "natural law" brainiac

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 09:44 AM (oyqh/)

265 As I recall it was solely Barbara Boxer who was responsible for making sure he is a natural born American citizen. 

It's a shame his grandmother died.   Maybe she could have signed some kind of affidavit attesting to his birth if they are having trouble even finding a birth certificate for him and it would have put the matter to rest.

He has brought attention to the fact that this citizenship business can be very dicey.   I've read more things written by more people to realize that the system has real problems that need to be addressed.

the minute I saw rove last night on the tv I realized this blog would come out saying "this is a lose/lose for the republicans" since the great karl rove thinks this.  The great karl rove also rips apart any potential republican candidate that doesn't seem interested in hiring him.   Yeah, I know, he's a political analyst but he always analyzes against republicans, finds the stuff that makes them look the worst.  On MSNBC they never eve admit there is a wiff of any problem in their perfect candidates.  It is up to the republicans to dig up the dirt.  It's not the MSNBC doesn't know all the dirt, rather, they simply choose not to expose it in the almost vicious way that rove exposes the republican stuff.

Posted by: curious at March 31, 2011 09:45 AM (k1rwm)

266

False.  This is yet another myth of the birther nuts.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 31, 2011 01:28 PM (SY2Kh

The firm of Perkins Coie has been on the campaign expenditures list since 2007 when this issue first arose. There is correspondence from one of their attorneys, one David Bauer -who incidentally is married to Anita Dunn-, to the attorneys of retired AF Col. Gregory Hollister who petitioned for the records threatening Hemenway and Associates that unless they drop it, Perkins Coie will sue them for filing a frivolous claim.

That was just one of many instances where Ogabe lawyers have worked to keep the records sealed. So just how much has been spent on this is unknown, but is sure to be very significant

Posted by: beedubya at March 31, 2011 09:50 AM (AnTyA)

267

Some observations, to summarize:

1) I see almost nobody in here suggesting that Obama was born in Kenya. I think I saw one, and who can tell if that was even serious.

2) Seems to me that the important points that are emerging are A) Rule of Law and B) Transparency. What's the point of having a Constitution, if there is no enforcement - regardless of whether this guy qualifies?

3) There are a couple of blatantly invalid ideas being put forth. The first is that the BC might say he's a Muslim, and the second is that he's not a citizen because his father wasn't. To those few I say: "Please - do some homework!"

4) There are a few interesting ideas about this, though, that are perfectly valid. My favorite is that it says he's other than "black", which could hurt his Cult of Personality following. I theorized that it said "mulatto", but others have added that it might say he's "white". Having done genealogy for decades, I'd say that sort of blunder in govt records happens all the time, so I like that one, too. There's also the ideas revolving around possible adoption. Most interesting was the one about how he has legally been representing himself under a false name. It seems completely reasonable to me that a minor infraction had occurred, and that Obama doesn't want it exposed. Harder to show, is the idea that perhaps he had claimed citizenship of another country, which is also entirely possible - especially considering the anti-American slant of his family. The bottom line is that all of these possibilities are exactly why proper documentation of people is required (at least for us "little people") in many situations.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 09:53 AM (2lTU+)

268 There are a few interesting ideas about this, though, that are perfectly valid. My favorite is that it says he's other than "black", which could hurt his Cult of Personality following. I theorized that it said "mulatto", but others have added that it might say he's "white".





That some believe that this is an issue for black Americans belies a gap in the knowledge of how most black Americans view mixed-raced persons.  In short:  almost all black Americans have some white ancestry.  That some so-called black leaders were deriding him early on for "not being black enough" was just a ruse.  It's always a losing proposition to listen to self- or Left-appointed ethnic leaders.

Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 10:01 AM (T2/zQ)

269 'belies' shud be 'shows'

Posted by: baldilocks at March 31, 2011 10:03 AM (T2/zQ)

270 Drudge has Trump in front of one of those four cross Crusader flags.  Like a bullseye, but far more effective.  Celebrity Boss: With Molly Norris in an Undisclosed Location

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 10:03 AM (sOtz/)

271 I don't care enough to read all the comments-I'd just like to point out that the billoreilly.com poll on the BC has 70% for "Obama was probably born outside the US." Which doesn't of itself mean anything, just that it'll be entertaining watching Bill's head explode on air tonight.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2011 10:06 AM (uqJo6)

272

and saying it's not true makes you right, how???

try looking up/studying "natural law" brainiac

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 02:44 PM (oyqh/)

I am very familiar with natural law, but I don't think you understand it.There are only two classifications of US citizenship; natural born and naturalized.

DO NOT confuse natural born with native born. Natural born means automatically conferred at birth. And if you look at US law concerning birthrights, you will see that a child born to an American mother and alien father has automatic citizenship IF the mother meets certain criteria, namely that she has permanent residence in the US and has lived there for ten years, five after the age of 14, prior to giving birth.

So, if Ogabe was not born in the US, since his mother was only 18 when she gave birth, he is not a citizen and not eligible to be president.

 

 

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 10:07 AM (AnTyA)

273

Obama is a make-believe person. A group of Communists in Washington State decided it would be a good idea if young Stanley Ann Dunham had a baby by a black communist man. Who the actual sperm donor was is currently a mystery, but after Stanley Ann  and her parents suddenly picked up and moved to Hawaii, an exotic African stranger named Barack Obama Sr. took credit for the act. And then essentially disappeared from the life of Barack Jr.

Grandma Dunham made sure that the baby was a U.S. citizen by getting the baby a Certification of Live Birth. No hospital or attending doctor had to be named, and the Health Department had to take her word for the place and date of birth. The addess she gave was her own, not the residence of the man listed as the baby's father. And a month later Stanley Ann and the babe (sans Barack Sr.) were living in Washington State where she started attending university classes. Perhaps the Communist support group was more than happy to take care of Stanley Ann's baby for her in the absence of her parents and Barack Sr.

I'm sorry, but the nativity story sounds fishy on all sorts of levels. And Barack Jr. ran with people who could produce identity documents whenever they were needed. We need to see the long form birth certificate. There is no shame in asking for it.

Posted by: Avogadra at March 31, 2011 10:14 AM (dtIOD)

274 I don't care enough to read all the comments-I'd just like to point out that the billoreilly.com poll on the BC has 70% for "Obama was probably born outside the US." Which doesn't of itself mean anything, just that it'll be entertaining watching Bill's head explode on air tonight.

O'Reilly will chastise the audience for believing in "rumors" and give Obama a pass for not releasing his full records.

Posted by: Johnny at March 31, 2011 10:15 AM (mhmc7)

275 Just looked at my own certified, long-form birth certificate (you know, the one I used to get a passport, driver's license, etc., etc.) and it has no box for information about religion.

The only thing I can produce that qualifies lawfully as a birth certificate does. Mine says NONE. Other people's BCs don't have a blank for that. There's some time/place/randomness/etc. involved, so that's the "embarrassment" least likely to be found.

Plus, it's not embarrassing. "Muslim" wouldn't contradict the Obama mythology—not really.

If there's something narratively wrong on his BC, it says he's "Barry," because he is, and/or it says he's white, because he is.

Posted by: oblig. at March 31, 2011 10:15 AM (xvZW9)

276 The position we should take is that he hasn't released his birth certificate and that he should. 

Posted by: kansas at March 31, 2011 10:15 AM (srmf8)

277

I'm not the one confusing what is natural born, you are.

 

as I stated "natural born Citizen" capitalized C in the constitution means born of 2 american citizens.  Specifically because the framers did not want a child whose father was not a citizen because they would have conflicting allegences...which obozo does and confirms the founders reasoning

 

it is a constitutional crises that I believe will be resolved this year or next and will shake the foundations of this country to the core....it can't be overlooked forever...truth will win out

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 10:37 AM (oyqh/)

278 You shouldn't have to show ID, ever.

Posted by: Kids Buying Alcohol; Illegal Aliens buying kids; Dead Voters at March 31, 2011 10:50 AM (eqkfX)

279

Maybe it's embarrasing that his mother had no idea who the father was. Maybe it says father "unknown"

Posted by: Jackhole at March 31, 2011 10:58 AM (+qHxi)

280

So, Barry releases the birth cert, and takes out Trump.

 

Meh.

Posted by: HoundOfDoom at March 31, 2011 11:07 AM (KhioZ)

281 Sooo... its CONGRESS who decides what is Constitutional?

If the law is unconstitutional, it would have been - or should be - challenged. 

The constitutional amendment leaves room for interpretation that is made up for by the US Code I cited. 

What you cited was some vague language in an 1875 case alluding to "some doubts," but not resolving them.  It certainly didn't seem definitive.  If it was, then how did the US Code evolve in the 125 years since that court case to be so different than what you're suggesting?  Liberals have not been in charge the entire time and I found nothing to indicate that current US Code was modified substantially in recent years. 

The currently operative US Code is crystal clear on this matter, it seems to me.  Now what the relevant law was in place in 1961, and whether or not that applies to Obama or is no longer in effect because of current USC, I don't know.  But I think you're being dishonest in how you're arguing your point to suggest that USC1401 is unconstitutional or doesn't matter because of one unsettled point raised an old ruling. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 11:34 AM (pW2o8)

282

 

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 03:07 PM (AnTyA)


You ARE familiar with the Naturalization act of 1790?


This act was created by the FIRST Congress which is roughly the same group of people that WROTE the US Constitution.

The act says that Citizenship CANNOT descend to someone who's father is not an American.


Now I acknowledge that an Act of Congress cannot override an Article of the U.S. Constitution, but it does illustrate the thinking of the men who WROTE the constitution.


Contemplate that.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 11:36 AM (v2K2g)

283 @284
I think it is clear.  Whether or not we agree with it vis a vis anchor babies etc is a separate matter. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 11:37 AM (pW2o8)

284 I'm going to repeat this. In his book "Dreams from my Father" Barack Obama SAYS :


"Unlike my mum," Obama tells his half-sister Auma in Dreams, "Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark's father was." 


Is this not an admission that his birth certificaTION is NOT PROOF?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 11:40 AM (v2K2g)

285 A CertificaTION of live birth is a print-out of a Record entry in a file.


A Birth CertificaTE is an AFFIDAVIT signed by a Witness.


One of them is PROOF. The other is just amendable data in a file.


I know. My birth certificate IS amended, and it no longer reflects the actual truth.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 11:45 AM (v2K2g)

286 287 @284
I think it is clear Whether or not we agree with it vis a vis anchor babies etc is a separate matter. 

Posted by: Y-not at March 31, 2011 04:37 PM (pW2o


An Act of Congress cannot override an Article of the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution is the Supreme law of the land.

It can be amended by the amendment process. Nothing else will suffice. 


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 11:50 AM (v2K2g)

287 Birther Who Impersonated Obama Claims He Accessed the President’s Selective Services Records
Note: Link is to The Blaze which takes great pains to call him 'The Birther' over and over again.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 11:55 AM (penCf)

288 The correct answer any R should give to reporters who demand they denounce the 'crazy birthers' is this: "Why the Hell are you asking me to answer a question we both know neither of us know anything about?  What I do know is the Constitution only places two hard requirements on being President and both can only be answered by seeing his papers.  We probably should fix the loophole that has allowed these questions to arise and now to fester unanswered for years."

And I'd bet good money that The Donald already knows what is on the birth cert and whether it exists.  Come on, he didn't 'accidentally' release the same sort of incomplete form as the one Obambi has produced only to re-release the right one the next day.  He knows that if he takes this issue to an embarrassing conclusion for Obama he will probably be POTUS in 2013 and there is no other viable path that leads to a Trump administration.  I say probably because should he blow up Obama early enough Hillary might have time to get in and Trump probably can't beat her.

Posted by: John Morris at March 31, 2011 11:55 AM (41hR3)

289 Posted by: John Morris at March 31, 2011 04:55 PM (41hR3)

I had an English Professor Named John Morris. You wouldn't happen to be him would you?


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 12:18 PM (v2K2g)

290 More likely, it does not have his father listed.

Posted by: Michael K. at March 31, 2011 01:05 PM (H6VxR)

291 I'm in the camp that says it either identifies a completely different father or no father.  He's too invested in the narrative of his father for that to turn out to be a falsehood that he knew about.
all I'm saying is Photoshop is a heck of a lot cheaper at creating a good forgery than all these attorneys he's been hiring.... or is he afraid there would be a mistake on the forgery that would cause an even bigger uproar, ala CBS and the faked Bush National Guard paperwork.

Posted by: kd iver at March 31, 2011 01:29 PM (L4CWX)

292

Ace wrote: "And it's never a bad thing to have someone off flanking you to your right; by comparison, you can claim to be "moderate," even if you're pretty rightist."

If you feel the need to apologize for being 'rightist', I guess this makes sense. I am a right-winger, why on earth would I want to claim to be a moderate? I left the Republican party in 2007 as I didn't want to be a member of a moderate party even though I vote for Republicans since they are in general better than Democrats.

Moderates and liberals are responsible for our upcoming and inevitable fiscal default (I think Bill Gross has it right). I don't want to be associated with either.

 

Posted by: 65 million Boomer votes at March 31, 2011 01:33 PM (DffuX)

293

You ARE familiar with the Naturalization act of 1790?

This act was created by the FIRST Congress which is roughly the same group of people that WROTE the US Constitution.
The act says that Citizenship CANNOT descend to someone who's father is not an American.
Now I acknowledge that an Act of Congress cannot override an Article of the U.S. Constitution, but it does illustrate the thinking of the men who WROTE the constitution.
Contemplate that.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 04:36 PM (v2K2g)

What the hell does this have to do with anything??

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 01:33 PM (AnTyA)

294

as I stated "natural born Citizen" capitalized C in the constitution means born of 2 american citizens.  Specifically because the framers did not want a child whose father was not a citizen because they would have conflicting allegences...which obozo does and confirms the founders reasoning

There was no such thing as a possible presidential candidate born of two Americans when the constitution was written in 1787...since the country was only 11 years old.

There was no such thing as an American citizen before The DoI

Article II refers to natural born (read native born). It also allows "other" citizens, those who were not born here but had allegiance to the country, to be president.

Natural born can come from being born here (native born) or by blood ties with allegiance, under certain conditions

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 01:42 PM (AnTyA)

295

297 You ARE familiar with the Naturalization act of 1790?

I'm too lazy to look it up, but an amendment to the Constitution, which would certainly take precedence over an act of Congress, says that anyone born in the US is a US citizen.

Beyond that, the point is that you have to be born a US citizen - which is possible even if born overseas. Various laws determine under what circumstances someone born abroad is a US citizen, and those have changed many times since 1790.

So I'd say that act is completely irrelevant, and people ought to drop the "his father wasn't a US citizen" stuff. It's just not valid, and just looks xenophobic.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 01:52 PM (2lTU+)

296

you can put your fingers in your ears and go la,la,la and that doesn't make you right...it's easy to look up so educate yourself so you don't look so stupid

 

why do you think rush is pushing the rubio president stuff?

 

to show that obama is an invalide candidate...even jindle can't run and he knows it

Posted by: vinny at March 31, 2011 02:48 PM (oyqh/)

297 He's fucking with us. Why should he show it when we are doing such a good job or making ourselves look like panicing xenophobic racists by asking for it?

Posted by: Sheila at March 31, 2011 04:16 PM (YZ1tV)

298

There was no such thing as a possible presidential candidate born of two Americans when the constitution was written in 1787...since the country was only 11 years old.

There was no such thing as an American citizen before The DoI

Article II refers to natural born (read native born). It also allows "other" citizens, those who were not born here but had allegiance to the country, to be president.

Natural born can come from being born here (native born) or by blood ties with allegiance, under certain conditions

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 06:42 PM (AnTyA)


Please forgive me for pointing this out, but Article II specifically exempts non natural born citizens from this requirement during this period of history:

 "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,"


 Since you have obviously READ Article II, you obviously knew this, but somehow this extremely important aspect of it has apparently slipped your mind.

Perhaps other things have slipped your mind as well, and you would be willing to be reminded of them?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 04:33 PM (v2K2g)

299

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Posted by: discount nhl jerseys at March 31, 2011 04:37 PM (OzXN4)

300

I'm too lazy to look it up, but an amendment to the Constitution, which would certainly take precedence over an act of Congress, says that anyone born in the US is a US citizen.



Pardon me for pointing this out, but the 14th amendment says:

"And subject to the jurisdiction thereof"


What you may not be aware of is the fact that the 14th amendment was based on the "Civil Rights act of 1866" which is a lot more clearer in meaning. It reaffirms the requirement of having Citizen Parents, which is what "And subject to the Jurisdiction thereof" conveys in a much poorer choice of words.

In any case, the 14th amendment DOES NOT REPEAL Article II, which set forth the Requirements of the office of President.


Beyond that, the point is that you have to be born a US citizen - which is possible even if born overseas. Various laws determine under what circumstances someone born abroad is a US citizen, and those have changed many times since 1790.

So I'd say that act is completely irrelevant, and people ought to drop the "his father wasn't a US citizen" stuff. It's just not valid, and just looks xenophobic.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 06:52 PM (2lTU+)


Sorry, but you are mistaken, and I can show you an unbroken chain of writings and logic from the beginning to end if you were but willing to look at it.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 04:39 PM (v2K2g)

301 "And subject to the Jurisdiction thereof" conveys in a much poorer choice of words.

Always struck me as quite straight forward - Are the parents subject to the draft and laws against treason? Are the parents subject to the laws of the land, without a consulate to request aid from? Archaic, but, are the parents subjects of the US?

Posted by: Druid at March 31, 2011 05:01 PM (RnujI)

302

 Please forgive me for pointing this out, but Article II specifically exempts non natural born citizens from this requirement during this period of history:

 "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,"

Since you have obviously READ Article II, you obviously knew this, but somehow this extremely important aspect of it has apparently slipped your mind.

Perhaps other things have slipped your mind as well, and you would be willing to be reminded of them?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 09:33 PM (v2K2g)

Exempt from what?

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 05:36 PM (AnTyA)

303 "And subject to the Jurisdiction thereof" conveys in a much poorer choice of words.

Always struck me as quite straight forward - Are the parents subject to the draft and laws against treason? Are the parents subject to the laws of the land, without a consulate to request aid from? Archaic, but, are the parents subjects of the US?

Posted by: Druid at March 31, 2011 10:01 PM (RnujI)

The Diogenes nick is pretty ironic, since he seems to just make up his own interpretations and definitions when the constructs go against his arguments.

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 05:38 PM (AnTyA)

304

Sorry, but you are mistaken, and I can show you an unbroken chain of writings and logic from the beginning to end if you were but willing to look at it.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 31, 2011 09:39 PM (v2K2g)

Well, that would at least be amusing since you started off with a bang with that Naturalization Act of 1790.

A child born in the US is a citizen, with the exception of one of foreign diplomats.

A child born overseas to two US citizens is a citizen.

...and this deals with the child's citizenship from other permutations of parentage.

All are natural born ...which means citizenship was acquired at birth

Posted by: beedubya, brainiac at March 31, 2011 05:53 PM (AnTyA)

305 Trump is the man, I hope he is doing this to rid us all of this vermin

Posted by: Bob Hussein Dole at March 31, 2011 07:07 PM (dcrpC)

306

I had always glossed over the "And subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part, as apparently superfluous, but I see from #312 that is what makes it so that the children of foreign diplomats that are born here are not US citizens. Interesting.

As to how it relates to the silly argument being made above, let's just say that I seriously doubt that I am suddenly no longer bound by the laws of the United States the minute I set foot into Canada, when I visit there. If that were true, I could step over the border, spill my guts as far as any state secrets I might have been privy to, and then hop back over the border to the US side with impunity. No national security law applies, right - cause I was "out of the jusidiction"? The whole idea is ridiculous.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 08:46 PM (2lTU+)

307 307  ...In any case, the 14th amendment DOES NOT REPEAL Article II, which set forth the Requirements of the office of President. ...

This is probably obvious to most people in here, but the "Requirements" say "natural born citizen" (which really means a "citizen by virtue of the circumstances of their birth", vs. becoming one by being "naturalized" later), and so since the 14th Amendment establishes (or clarifies, to some degree) the definition of what constitutes a "citizen", the Amendment has an impact on the "Requirements" without repealing it.

Posted by: Optimizer at March 31, 2011 08:59 PM (2lTU+)

308 thanks for your share!!

Posted by: wholesale lingerie at April 01, 2011 04:15 AM (t86IJ)

309 All: The fatal fact here is not the this, that, or the next thing per his Birth Certificate. The fact is is he's running on a Social Security Number issued in 1977 in Connecticut, and almost certainly not to him. That year he was resident in Hawaii, and he has no known connection to Connecticut. See: Jack Cashill - http://www.cashill.com/

Posted by: TahitiJack at April 02, 2011 02:06 PM (FA98s)

310 Much, much more in interviews (free audio) over at 630 Am Radio, KHOW, Denver -The Peter Boyles show. You will have to sort out the interviews on this matter, which go back now on toward three years. Boyles is one smart guy, and so are his guests.... http://www.khow.com/pages/boyles.html

Posted by: TahitiJack at April 02, 2011 02:22 PM (FA98s)

311 I have come here to chew bubblegum and burn Korans... and I am all out of bubblegum.Äþ²¨Ã×ÄÈ»éÉ´£¬Äþ²¨»éÉ´£¬Äþ²¨»éÉ´³ö×⣬Äþ²¨»éÉ´¶¨ÖÆ

Posted by: 0574mina at April 02, 2011 05:36 PM (a004l)

Posted by: anylove at May 16, 2011 12:44 AM (I/Loz)

313 Are you interested in Soccer? Right, you really like playing football. Plus, Soccer is just getting to be a worldwide popular sport nowadays. As fans of Soccer, you should get fully prepared at first. For example, you would better prepare a suitable pair of soccer cleats , a set of soccer jerseys or whatever. Otherwise, you will not enjoy an exciting football match. Anyway, it is necessary and essential to prepare for the football match in a good way.(yang)

Posted by: soccer cleats at June 26, 2011 09:02 PM (ESwwK)

Posted by: franklinew at July 03, 2011 11:49 PM (FmDqk)

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