April 28, 2009

The UAW Is About To Become One Of The Biggest Automakers
— DrewM

This is really getting strange.

Under a debt restructuring plan, the UAW is going to become a 55% stakeholder in Chrysler.

The United Auto Workers union’s retiree health-care fund will own 55 percent of Chrysler LLC in exchange for cutting in half the automaker’s $10.6 billion cash obligation to the trust, people familiar with the matter said.

...Instead of contributing $8.8 billion to a retiree health- care trust, Chrysler will give the union trust shares of the company and a promissory note for $4.59 billion that will be paid in installments with 9 percent interest until 2023, one of the people said. This reduces the up-front cash Chrysler would have had to pay under its 2007 contract agreement with the Detroit-based union.

The union’s equity in Chrysler is valued at $4.2 billion. If it can sell the shares for more, the Treasury would get the difference, one of the people said.

Yesterday GM announced a preliminary restructuring plan that would be similar in that instead of paying into a health care fund would result in the union owning 39% of the company, while the federal government owned 50%. The remaining stock would be owned by bondholders who get the short end of the stick.

There used to be a joke that the organizations formally known as the Big 3 were health insurance companies that made cars on the side. Now it's the truth.

It's amazing that the people who created this mess are going to wind up owning the companies they screwed (Yes, management helped. A lot.).

On the upside, it will be fun to watch the UAW negotiate with itself.

More: "Joshin" in the comments asks a great question...

So does this mean that Ford is going to have to negotiate with their competitors?

The one company that is financing itself is now competing with its workforce and their business partner, which just happens to be the US government. It's a brave new world boys and girls.

Posted by: DrewM at 12:05 PM | Comments (236)
Post contains 350 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Good move by the UAW.  No need to beg hold out for health care; the tax payers will be picking up that tab.

Posted by: airandee at April 28, 2009 12:10 PM (S+A7T)

2 Just great.   Utilities and health care are next.

What do I keep saying?  In the end, there will be only fucking chaos!!!111!!!

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at April 28, 2009 12:10 PM (otlXg)

3 The scary part here is the disparate treatment of the cash obligations of unions and bondholders.

bondholders got completely fucked, and the unions both own both companies AND got over 50% of their money - bondholders get about 20% of their money and about a fifth of the stock the unions get.

fuck this bullshit, America is no longer a free country.

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 28, 2009 12:10 PM (5r0Tz)

4 Here's a good summary of the vile hatred Obama has trucked in re foreign policy in his first 100 days. 

Obama delivered his first collective mea culpa on our behalf in an interview with the Arab Al Arabiya television network, in which he said that he hoped to "restore" the "same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago." (Would that be when Iranian revolutionaries held our embassy hostage for 444 days?) Obama neglected to identify what exactly had caused the rift between the United States and the "Muslim world," leaving his audience to believe that Islamic radicalism is as much our fault as it is of the Islamic radicals themselves.

But that was a mild beginning. Obama waited to ramp up the apologetics until his first trip overseas. In Strasbourg, France, he said the United States had "failed to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world" and that "there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." Never mind the questionable basis of these statements (even if Europe played a "leading role in the world," which it hasn't since nearly destroying itself 60 years ago, how have Americans "failed to appreciate" it?). More troubling was the impropriety of Obama's willingness to attack President George W. Bush in an obvious gambit to curry favor with Europeans.

Not content with faulting Americans for their arrogance (in France, no less!), Obama delivered a speech in Prague days later where he offered a not-so-subtle apology for America's use of nuclear weapons in World War II. "As the only nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon, the United States has a moral responsibility to act" in furtherance of total disarmament, he said.

Yet the use of the atomic bomb in ending the war with Japan saved hundreds of thousands of lives, and America's possession of nuclear weapons prevented the Cold War from becoming bloodier. More unsettling, however, was the implication that the U.S., and not regimes that have illicitly sought such technology, is at fault for nuclear proliferation.

Obama apologized some more in Turkey. "I know that the trust that binds us has been strained, and I know that strain is shared in many places where the Muslim faith is practiced. Let me say this as clearly as I can: The United States is not at war with Islam."

Here, Obama seamlessly joined the Bush administration's irritation at Ankara's refusal to allow American troops' passage to Iraq with the bogus claim that the United States has, until Obama's presence in the White House, been "at war with Islam," an assertion that essentially (and falsely) blames Bush for declaring such a war.

When not establishing false premises about the previous administration (the easier to glorify his own) or apologizing for his country, Obama has shown unusual deference to autocrats. At the Summit of the Americas, he calmly sat through a 50-minute anti-American tirade by the communist leader of Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega, and was disturbingly ebullient in glad-handing Venezuelan autocrat Hugo Chavez. There's nothing wrong with the president participating in a multilateral summit where criticism, even egregiously unfair criticism, of the U.S. is expressed. But if he can sit and take verbal abuse from Latin American demagogues, then surely speaking a little truth in response to their lies is appropriate.

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 28, 2009 12:11 PM (5r0Tz)

5 Today I received a message from an old friend apologizing for voting for Obama. Foreign policy is what did him in, but dumb shit like this was also included in said message about how dumb the Obama administration has become. It's actually giving me hope for my country, for the first time since the tea parties. And those were ages ago.

Posted by: Brenden at April 28, 2009 12:13 PM (54lqZ)

6 The union’s equity in Chrysler is valued at $4.2 billion. If it can sell the shares for more, the Treasury would get the difference, one of the people said.

If the shares sink to the point of delisting, everyone gets paid off in toilet paper.

Posted by: kbdabear at April 28, 2009 12:13 PM (miw86)

7 Now we know what pirates look like.

Posted by: somejoe at April 28, 2009 12:13 PM (yP5sH)

8 The only thing missing is the new law which forces Americans to buy Chrysler and GM cars.  And that must be coming because 'progressives' don't buy American now and we morons won't in the future.  It's amazing how much damage you can do in a hundred days if you're really gifted.   

Posted by: Chip Abu Hussein Sayf Al-Dawla Islam at April 28, 2009 12:16 PM (sOtz/)

9 Normally I'm in favor of employees having some equity in their company, but I doubt the UAW has the best interests of shareholders in mind since their primary revenue comes from union dues. My prediction is that they will hollow out the company and get a bailout or two before the inevitable bankruptcy.

Posted by: Mtenloch at April 28, 2009 12:16 PM (z1Jlf)

10 Now the Federal Government owns 50% of GM (controlling interest) and the UAW (government goons) own 55% of Chrysler. It is safe to say I won't be buying a car from either.

Posted by: robtr at April 28, 2009 12:16 PM (H60q6)

11

This is a promising development. It's kinda like when those enterprising businessmen found themselves in possession of all those Fabergé eggs 90-some years ago.

oh, wait --

Posted by: FireHorse at April 28, 2009 12:18 PM (w9FHT)

12 On the upside, it will be fun to watch the UAW negotiate with itself. Yes ........ yes it will be .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at April 28, 2009 12:18 PM (d0YiG)

13
I hear their new model, the "Local 412", is awesome. It uses government required green technology (no air conditioner) and comes equipped with a baseball bat for "givin' da scabs what for".  Also, 5% of every sale goes to charity organization Acorn.  

Posted by: The Chewbacca Defense at April 28, 2009 12:19 PM (AYVkM)

14 It is safe to say I won't be buying a car from either.

But how many people will when they're offered a tax credit for buying one?  And a double tax credit for buying a "green" one?  It's coming.

Posted by: rockhead at April 28, 2009 12:19 PM (DvaIL)

15 Who wouldn't want a car made by the unions and gummint?  I can picture the TV ads now:  "Blaze down the roads at bureaucratic speeds in your brand new Chrysler Obama!  Gubbermint design and union quality combine to produce the vehicle of tomorrow today with double the hope and change of any car on the road!"

Posted by: Tantor at April 28, 2009 12:20 PM (CVue7)

16 Hah!! I have shot video inside a UAW car plant. Most of the workers looked pissed off. Now they own the problem. I don''t think they quite understand what it means to be an "owner". Chrysler makes the crappiest cars and should have been put out of it's misery. Don't worry - sales will tank and the workers will be down to making $7 an hour with no benefits. Remember the owners now get their paychecks last. If I were suppling Chrysler or GM I would run over to Ford and other sources ASAP. What's next? Obama being a spokesperson doing TV spots for "his" auto companies? I would not drive a Chrysler POS if you gave it to me.

Posted by: izoneguy at April 28, 2009 12:20 PM (3k9TU)

17 #14

Indeed, *sighs*.

In the end, there will be only...union/government ownership.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at April 28, 2009 12:20 PM (otlXg)

18 What do I keep saying?  In the end, there will be only fucking chaos!!!111!!!

Posted by: Kratos

i can't wait...thats why i'm dropping off the grid.

Posted by: unamerican hate mongering evil libertarian at April 28, 2009 12:21 PM (2J+Vs)

19 Remember that episode of the Simpsons where Homer designs the car for his long-lost brother's company?

Posted by: nickless at April 28, 2009 12:21 PM (MMC8r)

20 This sucks. I think I'm going to kill another microbiologist.

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 12:22 PM (gHrZU)

21 It is safe to say I won't be buying a car from either.

That's what you think, prole. I'll just jack up the environmental regulations, add in some 'social-responsibility' labor tax to the other auto mfrs and Yahzee! You're buying our cars. Ain't that right, Vinnie.

"Uh-yup, dat's right, Mistah Prezident. He'z gonna buy our cars and like it."

Posted by: Pres. O at April 28, 2009 12:23 PM (kIjlp)

22 I found an interesting letter printed up on my boss's desk this morning.  It started with an introduction, then a remark about 9/11 not being done by Arabs.  So I think, "Oh, great, my boss is listening to fucking Troofers."  But I decide to read a little further...

And it hits me.  A few lines down I read "I never thought an administration could be more screwed up than George Bush's, and I happily voted for Obama, but I now realize that was a mistake."

Fuck, man, even the Troofers think they should have voted against this guy?  Jesus!

Posted by: Ack at April 28, 2009 12:23 PM (Pdl+z)

23 Don't be so glum, people. This is great news. The UAW will run GM into the ground and we'll finally be rid of them. Plus, since Obama has made GM as unattractive to private investment as possible the whole thing is his show. Good riddance, Gomment Motors!

Posted by: runninrebel at April 28, 2009 12:23 PM (ocqQA)

24 We're here for you.

Posted by: Toyota at April 28, 2009 12:23 PM (MMC8r)

25 I think I'll put in an order for an Obamamobile right now. That way I'll be ready when it is delivered in ten years.

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 12:24 PM (gHrZU)

26 The proletariat should own the means of production. Karl Marx made that very clear.

Posted by: Travis at April 28, 2009 12:25 PM (Sv49c)

27 Repeat after me..."from now on, Honda or Toyota".

I've already got an 2 American bikes, and two American cars. Never again, except for the bikes.

Posted by: LtE113(Mke in Chicago) at April 28, 2009 12:26 PM (QC5tC)

28 The bondholders are going to flush GM and Chrysler before taking these deals...  Instead of a pre-package, they'll have a melt-down...  Democrats are soooo stoopid

Posted by: phreshone at April 28, 2009 12:26 PM (oH2N4)

29 Now that the union owns the car company, they can get everything that they ever wanted. $100/hr base wage, 12 weeks off, lifetime healthcare, 6 hr work days, paid catered lunch. Awesome! It'll be a workers' paradise! They might even build a couple of cars when they find the time.

Posted by: Caribbean Pirate at April 28, 2009 12:28 PM (7FgWm)

30

Can you imagine the joy of calling the Government warranty center to discuss replacing the transmission in your UAW/Government produced car?  You will receive the same service available at the Post Office, IRS, Congress, or your local DMV.  These entities are populated by insolent assholes who only have an interest in lunch hour and what time they go home. 

The only solution to this problem?  Never purchase a UAW/GM or Chrysler product again or suffer the dire consequences.

Posted by: Fish at April 28, 2009 12:28 PM (CG+cG)

31 This will be great!  Like running the Post Office on the French model!

Posted by: nickless at April 28, 2009 12:31 PM (MMC8r)

32

Repeat after me..."from now on, Honda or Toyota."

Said that back in '95 when I bought my current car.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 28, 2009 12:31 PM (w9FHT)

33

Here's a question:

Are the shares of stock going to be held by the actual workers in the union, or the actual union organization?

Let me answer my own question because I assume it's going to be the higher up in the organization owning it as a trust as opposed to the actual guys on the floor riveting stuff together actually sharing in the benefits/risks of stock ownership.

If so, I wonder if this isn't a situation of being screwed by actually getting  what you wish for. If the union leadership is also the ownership, there is nobody to rail against on pay issues, healthcare issues, mismanagement of the company, lack of quality in product, etc.

Instead of union vs. management, it becomes rank n' file vs. union/management.

And trust me, growing up in a union household (UPS/Teamsters) there are very few actual 'true believers' in the union ranks. Most join because they have to, and actually take a "on the one hand, on the other hand' approach to labor issues. And most aleady have a wary view of their leadership, at least at the national level.

So this could turn out to be almost pop-corn level goodness a few years from now.

Oh, and if I buy a new car, it won't be Chrysler or Govenment Motors.

Posted by: Lee at April 28, 2009 12:31 PM (TxTIh)

34 So the UAW owns the majority chunk of one company and 39% of the other. And the only other shareholders of consequence are the guys who print the money. Great news.

Posted by: bunny boy at April 28, 2009 12:32 PM (YsSn7)

35 In Soviet America, the United Auto Workers will own the means of production!

Posted by: Vladimir Ilyich Obama at April 28, 2009 12:33 PM (Gzb30)

36

But I own a GMC Envoy. Waaaa. I love my Envoy and I can't afford to unload it and buy a new non Government Motors car. So, I am screwed.

By the way, my sister is already having trouble getting warranty work done, she owns a GMC Acadia, less than a year old, still under warranty. And none of the dealers in her area will call her back to service it under the warranty. There is apparently a recall notice item she needs to get fixed, but no one will fix it. She's getting to the point where she might just pay to have it done since it ain't gonna happen if she waits for someone to agree to honor the warranty.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 28, 2009 12:33 PM (AJ4xq)

37 Oh, and if I buy a new car, it won't be Chrysler or Govenment Motors.

Don't forget about Fix Or Repair Daily.

Posted by: Mtenloch at April 28, 2009 12:33 PM (z1Jlf)

38 Lee , Drew nailed it with .... there's an upside .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at April 28, 2009 12:34 PM (d0YiG)

39 There's gonna be some really shitty electric cars hitting the showrooms that are left in about three years.

Posted by: nickless at April 28, 2009 12:34 PM (MMC8r)

40 I looooove my new Toyota Sequoia, bought at a recession discount!  I also tested the Yukon and the Expedition, and looked at the Armada.  The Yukon is actually a good machine - big enough that GM put some real effort into it - there were a few features that tipped it in favor of the Sequoia, but the Yukon was a contender.  The Ford just looked and felt like crap - cheap fittings, poorly fitted body panels.  Also, the Toyota dealership was the only one who treated me like an intelligent human being.

Posted by: Holdfast at April 28, 2009 12:36 PM (Gzb30)

41

UAW/GM announced today their intent to introduce a new automobile in the Chevrolet Division known as the Corvair Monza.  This car will replace most SUV's in the product line, and based upon 1960's 2009 technology, will be very good for the environment. 

Posted by: Fish at April 28, 2009 12:37 PM (CG+cG)

42 I wonder if there will be any reaction to this in terms of sales, and how soon it will be manifest. Like, in the present quarter?

Posted by: Doc Rochester at April 28, 2009 12:37 PM (aYL9O)

43

Yeah, that was a bit wordy, wasn't it.

Just bored here at work, is all. So it's either type something, or hit refresh at Instapundit for the eighteenth time today.

Posted by: Lee at April 28, 2009 12:38 PM (TxTIh)

44

Sebelius has been confirmed.

Posted by: outraged at April 28, 2009 12:39 PM (penCf)

45 i really feel for the people who who were actually, you know, invested in these crappy companies, probably thousands of formerly well-off retirees who will now end up eating dog food in some hole-in-the-wall nursing home in florida until they're too old for the obama-care to pay for them any more.  though this will create resentment of the highest order...obama simply can't politically continue to funnel money to these guys when everyone else is left holding the bill and looking at layoffs in their own company, so it's going to be hard to continue to save the UAW from the inevitable disaster that these companies will become.

Posted by: matt foley at April 28, 2009 12:41 PM (HMGTw)

46 Let's get this straight. UAW screws up functioning companies by levying on them responsibilities that no sane company should be paying for. Then, they claim these obligations as legal tender for equity in the same companies? Straight out of Atlas Shrugged. Twentieth Century Motor Company from which John Galt walked.

Posted by: prose at April 28, 2009 12:42 PM (ApD9I)

47 Buying a GM or Chrysler is un-American now.




Posted by: Banana Slug at April 28, 2009 12:42 PM (jUT3N)

48 Too bad about Chrysler.  I thought that the 300C had potential to help them turn things around.

Posted by: Matt at April 28, 2009 12:43 PM (0z0tO)

49

Great. Now they'll feel what its like to have union thugs with their boots on their nuts.

Oh, wait.

Why do I see headlines flashing before my eyes:

Union Offices Taken by Force in Murderous Rampage by Labor

Someone, someday soon, is flat going to lose it.

 

Posted by: jmflynny at April 28, 2009 12:43 PM (S39mR)

50 It'll be interesting to see if the UAW can avoid spitting in their own soup. As for Obama Motors - I can see all the Congressional Product Managers lining up to dictate the designs. First time I see a 2012 Waxman I'm going to pee on it.

Posted by: mrkwong at April 28, 2009 12:44 PM (G8Eo0)

51 BTW, how does anyone get 9% interest on anything these days?

Posted by: Banana Slug at April 28, 2009 12:45 PM (jUT3N)

52 @50 jmflynny

Someone, someday soon, is flat going to lose it.

I'll drink to that.

<gulp>

I just did.  Evan Williams 1783.



Posted by: MikeO at April 28, 2009 12:46 PM (hz67i)

53 Posted by: Lee at April 28, 2009 05:31

I hate it when you read my mind like that. 

Seriously, this is a great deal for the union bosses and a total scam.  United Airlines did the same sort of thing and it didn't stop them from going into bankruptcy.  The difference now is that the union bosses get a free hand into the Treasury until forever.

Just great, neverending bailouts.  Who didn't see that one coming?

Posted by: oLD gUY at April 28, 2009 12:46 PM (n1yDn)

54 I bought a Toyota Rav4 a few weeks ago.  I'll never buy an "American" car again.

Good luck with American Leyland, Obama. I'm sure it will work out swimmingly. 

Posted by: NYCcon at April 28, 2009 12:47 PM (jLXdE)

55 I will never, ever be buying a UAW-made car again. (Unless it's used and made before the company was communized.)

Posted by: SanIam at April 28, 2009 12:48 PM (uwn4a)

56 What is funny is that the unions will still be able to donate to democrats while getting paid by the American taxpayer. So this will be one giant revolving door for money between the American taxpayer, corrupt politician, and back to corrupt union member, and then back to the politician. Awesome and to think it will never ever end now.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at April 28, 2009 12:48 PM (R3G9r)

57

The world is upside down.

Thanks, Obama! Asshole.

Posted by: Jones at April 28, 2009 12:49 PM (KOkrW)

58

 I can see all the Congressional Product Managers lining up to dictate the designs.

Ah yes, the Bwany Fwank will be a decidedly effeminate three wheel vehicle with an inviting exhaust pipe and available only in hot pink!

Posted by: Fish at April 28, 2009 12:50 PM (CG+cG)

59

Will the UAW breaks its own kneecaps if it doesn't not give in to its own demands? And is this anything like Obama questioning himself over the Air Farce One Manhattan Project fiasco?

Posted by: andycanuck at April 28, 2009 12:51 PM (MGu62)

60 So does this mean that Ford is going to have to negotiate with their competitors?

How exactly would this work?  Seems a bit of an of anti-trust issue.

-J

Posted by: Joshin at April 28, 2009 12:51 PM (r8N4G)

61 So does this mean that Ford is going to have to negotiate with their competitors?

How exactly would this work?  Seems a bit of an of anti-trust issue.

Great point.  I smell a lawsuit brewing in the snack room microwave.

Posted by: oLD gUY at April 28, 2009 12:54 PM (n1yDn)

62 So Obama rips off our money, buys Detroit and gives it to his political allies.
Perfect.
No more GM or Chrysler.
It will be used as part of a permanent cash base for political campaigning.

Posted by: Beto The Elder at April 28, 2009 12:54 PM (F1b/5)

63 Well, it makes my new car purchase plans simpler. I'll either buy a Ford or a Toyota. Given how things have played out, I plan never to buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle again. (And this gives me some pain, because I actually like the new Camaros and Chargers.) I will not reward this monumental incompetence and sniveling with one dime of my money.

And yes, I know that Ford is little better. But at least they're making a go of it on their own so far. If they go down too, I'll buy used cars until the day I die.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 12:54 PM (N13AA)

64 My hope is that there is a huge part of the electorate that has buyer's remorse, that they are people of good faith and realize they made a mistake. The Dems have two years to do their damage before we see what Congress looks like.
Nobody is going to buy these cars. Whoever said American Leyland nailed it. These are death throes.

Posted by: the real joe at April 28, 2009 12:55 PM (ELUGn)

65 This is why my car is German and my bike is Italian.

God willing, this will never change.

Posted by: dave @ at April 28, 2009 12:56 PM (IwKSD)

66 The only things I can cling to when I read whacked-out stuff like this are my swords and my religion.  Animal Farm, Atlas Strugged, is One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich next?

In the end, there will be only... regret, sadness, and CHAOS!

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at April 28, 2009 12:56 PM (otlXg)

67 So if GM or Chrysler tank, is the UAW going to ask the feds for a 'bailout'?

Posted by: GarandFan at April 28, 2009 12:57 PM (C3okI)

68 Honda and Toyota are probably already putting together plans for picking up the pieces left after the unions quickly drive GM and Chrysler deeper into the ground, with a good running start from the DINOS and taxpayers.

Undoubtably, some DINOS will step forward to buy some overpriced Generally Marxist vehicles, look for average bubbas to save a few thousand bucks buying quality cars elsewhere. 

Posted by: drfredc at April 28, 2009 12:59 PM (ljMiA)

69 Me thinks the union just got fucked. But oh well. Maybe with the health care reform coming they didn't. Time will tell.

I like they have a stake in the company. Maybe it'll work.

And if they make a good car I'll buy one. I don't really give a dam.

Posted by: honest cloud at April 28, 2009 12:59 PM (hOPQH)

70 I'm looking pretty good, now, eh, bitches?

Posted by: andycanuck at April 28, 2009 01:00 PM (MGu62)

71 Like Obama said, "I won."

Posted by: Karl Marx at April 28, 2009 01:04 PM (qsGH+)

72 OT: Sorry, but I updated to IE8 yesterday and just realized I can highlight text and translate it into a different language with a couple of clicks!

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 01:04 PM (gHrZU)

73 OT: lástima, pero actualizado para IE8 ayer y realizado sólo puedo resaltar texto y traducirlo a un idioma diferente, con un par de clics!

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 01:04 PM (gHrZU)

74 OT: excuses, maar ik gisteren bijgewerkt met IE8 en alleen gerealiseerde kan ik tekst markeren en het vertalen in een andere taal met enkele muis klikken!

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 01:06 PM (gHrZU)

75 I have been buying Chevrolet vehicles my entire life.
Mostly out of a sense of supporting America.
Now, I just can't buy a car from a company whose employees make twice in salary and benefits what I make (and I have an electronics engineering degree).
I will not give one more dime to some union worker for a poor product.
GM is going to get billions more of our tax dollars just to keep all those million dollar pensions afloat.
Socialize the losses and privatize the profit. Fuck that.

All my future cars are going to be Japanese.
Although, I do like the Ford pickup trucks.

Posted by: Boeing at April 28, 2009 01:07 PM (YaBmG)

76 OT: Désolé, mais je mise à jour pour IE8 hier et seulement réalisé je peux mettre en surbrillance le texte et traduire en une autre langue avec quelques clics !

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 01:07 PM (gHrZU)

77 You wanna fuckin lace wig?  You'll hafta wait. 

Posted by: Remy Lace Wigs Union President at April 28, 2009 01:08 PM (ni9Ub)

78 OT: Niestety, ale I zaktualizowane do IE8 wczoraj i po prostu zrealizowanych mo¿na podœwietliæ tekst i przet³umaczyæ na inny jêzyk za pomoc¹ kilku klikniêæ!

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 01:08 PM (gHrZU)

79 i just got a 'na na na na hey hey goodbye' email from my liberal brother about the 60 seat super majority cuz Specter flipped thing. How should I respond? Do I shoot his dogs or burn his house down?

Posted by: Jones at April 28, 2009 01:08 PM (KOkrW)

80 Sorry, I'll knock it off. But that is so fucking cool!

Posted by: jaleach at April 28, 2009 01:09 PM (gHrZU)

81

Don't be so glum, people. This is great news. The UAW will run GM into the ground and we'll finally be rid of them. Plus, since Obama has made GM as unattractive to private investment as possible the whole thing is his show.

Good riddance, Gomment Motors!

Don't count on it.

You really think they're going to let the unions (and their millions in campaign contributions) fail?  Now that the government is 50% shareholder, they have all the excuse they need to "invest" in the auto industry to "create or save" jobs.

Sure, every car sold will be at a loss, and the company will continue to hemorrage money- but the Dems will make damned sure that the unions don't suffer the consequences.  That's what taxpayers are for.  And private bondholders?  Screw them too; their own fault for not contributing more campaign cash.

As stupid as this all is, Obama and other Democrats know who's buttering their bread, and they're not so dumb as to shit where they eat.  Whatever money we're dumping into the Big Three, it's only the beginning.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2009 01:09 PM (rf03a)

82 i don't know about anyone else, but with these new deals at GM and Chrysler i will NEVER own either one again.

Posted by: exceller at April 28, 2009 01:10 PM (6beBT)

83 Let's be honest: with the current bunch in charge, there was never going to be a "good" endgame scenario.

At least this may provide some popcorn-level entertainment trying to watch the union thugs who've done their level best to hamstring Chrysler now try to actually run the thing.

Posted by: INCITEmarsh at April 28, 2009 01:10 PM (65e0S)

84 Yeah, when the union takes ownership the media hail it as an innovative new alternative to capitalism and the workers are jubilant about their jobs being saved but it it pretty much the end stage of the company's existence.    

Posted by: Snake Oil Baron at April 28, 2009 01:12 PM (7lGBT)

85 Do I shoot his dogs or burn his house down?

Send him the projected debt graph. Then tell him he and his pals own that monstrosity.

Later, kick him in the balls.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 28, 2009 01:12 PM (9Dw9r)

86 I gotta call my broker at Lehman Brothers and get me some Corporate Bonds. A gold-plated investment there. Yessiree.

Posted by: billypaintbrush at April 28, 2009 01:14 PM (k6RgA)

87 Boycott GM and Chrysler!

Posted by: Uniball at April 28, 2009 01:14 PM (27iEn)

88 Do I shoot his dogs or burn his house down?

Posted by: Jones at April 28, 2009 06:08 PM (KOkrW)

Why limit yourself?

Posted by: Random South Chicago thug at April 28, 2009 01:14 PM (ni9Ub)

89

i just got a 'na na na na hey hey goodbye' email from my liberal brother about the 60 seat super majority cuz Specter flipped thing. How should I respond? Do I shoot his dogs or burn his house down?

Do nothing.  Specter will show up soon enough to stab him in the back if he thinks it'll help get him get re-elected.  That's how he rolls.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2009 01:14 PM (rf03a)

90 Do I shoot his dogs or burn his house down?

Yes.

Posted by: Doc Rochester at April 28, 2009 01:14 PM (aYL9O)

91 i don't know about anyone else, but with these new deals at GM and Chrysler i will NEVER own either one again.

I get the distinct impression you'll actually own a bit of each one built from here on out.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 28, 2009 01:15 PM (9Dw9r)

92 Travis beat me to my point, but now that the workers DO own the means of production, are we taking bets on how long before the wheels come off?

Posted by: Militant Bibliophile at April 28, 2009 01:15 PM (NO+O0)

93 Fords only chance is to fire every worker and move to a right to work state. The weather here in Texas is nice...

Posted by: Jollyroger at April 28, 2009 01:15 PM (euXsj)

94 Run those fuckers into the ground, I don't give a crap. A lot of good all this restructuring will do when no one buys their cars.

I say boycott the hell out of them.

Posted by: Uniball at April 28, 2009 01:16 PM (27iEn)

95

I haven't read every comment yet, so if I have repeated someone else's thought, sorry Dude/Dudette.

Anyhoo. How 'bout them German and Japanese and Korean car models, eh? They do an awfully damn fine job on the quality of materials, craftsmanship, and designs. Not to mention the way their management is able to keep the Unions in their place. Seems to me, a patriotic, free-market thinking sort of person ought to SERIOUSLY consider buying an import rather than feed the looting beasts of the Left.

Posted by: JC at April 28, 2009 01:17 PM (kmuoQ)

96

Hey now, your brother's dogs have nothing to do with this.

 

 

Burn the house.

Posted by: Lee at April 28, 2009 01:18 PM (TxTIh)

97 The continual jokes about the big 3 being Pension and health care companies just became real.......

Sad day for us.

Posted by: Grover at April 28, 2009 01:20 PM (cwK4+)

98 All of us are going to be giving money to GM, whether we bought one of their cars or not.

Posted by: Boeing at April 28, 2009 01:20 PM (YaBmG)

99 Same here. I don't have time to read every post but my observation is the following: How much fucking pressure is the govt going to be unde,r as de facto co-owner of these companies as well as being politically joined at the hip with the other co-owner, to restrict the flow of foriegn competition. We may see a disasterous trade war with our Asian partners yet.

Posted by: pendejo grande at April 28, 2009 01:20 PM (PXZI9)

100 I'm trying to remember the name of another socialist who essentially took over the automotive industry in his country and had them organize and and build new cars on his orders.... I seem to remember he also had a thing for giving long winded speeches in highly staged environments to his transfixed zombie followers. Achtung, baby.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 28, 2009 01:21 PM (VW9/y)

101 Congrats to the automakers who sold out.You just became the AMTRAK of the car world.

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 01:22 PM (dzIYr)

102 Did you see Obama in his swimsuit? Isn't he just dreamy?

Posted by: Chris Matthews at April 28, 2009 01:22 PM (SWyxd)

103

As owners, UAW will learn soon they will have to cut benefits to stay afloat.  I'm sure sale of ammo and baseball bats will rise too. What do you know - welcome to management boys. 

Posted by: gordo at April 28, 2009 01:23 PM (1kwr2)

104 Just as an aside: I went to the Springfield Armory company for my new pistol (an XD-M Glock clone in .40S&W). Buy American, and all that. Well, guess what? My new heater is made in Croatia. (Springfield Armory still makes their M1A rifles in Geneseo, IL; but they source the pistols from Eastern Europe.) My new AR15 was made by Smith and Wesson in Springfield, MA.

The point is that wanting to "buy American" these days is trickier than ever.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 01:23 PM (N13AA)

105 Its gonna be fun for the union members when their health care insurance premium checks start bouncing.

Or do they have to pay the full cost of their golden programs starting now/

Posted by: Oldcat at April 28, 2009 01:23 PM (z1N6a)

106 What to do with your brother's E-mail?

If his wife's knees aren't too sharp, I'd start with boinking her.

Then tell him he has a super majority with Specter so you're even.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 28, 2009 01:23 PM (fnU+z)

107 45-Sebelius has been confirmed.

See how the crisis works?  Just like clock work!

Posted by: Derak at April 28, 2009 01:23 PM (QIsMa)

108 #100

I think you're right about a possible trade war with the Asians over this Marxist nonsense.  What if all our debt that the Asians own becomes a weapon in this highly likely trade war?

In the end, there will be only... protectionism.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at April 28, 2009 01:23 PM (otlXg)

109 FORD....

Will soon be the Detroit Big One...

No GM or Chrysler products in my future...  Ford. Ford. Ford.

Honda and Toyota's are ok too... High amounts of US production.  Japan is one of our best allies...


Need a truck... get a F-150
Big family car... Taurus
Small car... wait till new Euro designed Fiesta gets in production next year...

Posted by: phreshone at April 28, 2009 01:24 PM (oH2N4)

110 This is horrific for Chrysler and GM, it means the two entities that have done the most to kill the auto industry, unions and gov't will be the two entities that control 90 percent of the Board and the company. The bondholders value just went into imaginary number land. I doubt Chrysler did this willingly, but that the heavy hand of gov't made them give 55 percent to unions in order to pay the unions back for supporting Obama.

Posted by: eaglewingz08 at April 28, 2009 01:24 PM (RdRrk)

111

"This is really getting strange."

nyet, comrade...

Posted by: shoey at April 28, 2009 01:25 PM (RxUMK)

112 Who knew, when I bought my 2007 Civic at age 55, that it might be the last car I ever have? Even if I live to be 100, so will a Honda. No matter who's running GM and Chrysler, you can't say the same about the crap they put out.

Posted by: Marybel at April 28, 2009 01:26 PM (JZjnn)

113 "We may see a disastrous trade war with our Asian partners yet."

It is the only way this monstrosity can compete. They can't compete in the free market, they need our money, you know they can't compete with foreign imports, so the gov't will have to get involved.

Boycotting GM and Chrysler is the moral and patriotic thing to do in this case.  If they aren't selling any cars, and the gov't continues to funnel money to them, and creates trade wars to prop them up, it will become an election issue.

Boycott these companies to save our country and our economy.


Posted by: Uniball at April 28, 2009 01:26 PM (27iEn)

114 #108

Damn, that sucks.  I've dealt with Cerberus before and they are really hard to kill, especially when the pups that they spawn grow to full size and...

Wait, you're talking about Sebelius?  I'm sorry, but that still sucks.

In the end, there will be only... higher electricity costs.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at April 28, 2009 01:26 PM (otlXg)

115 107 What to do with your brother's E-mail?

If his wife's knees aren't too sharp, I'd start with boinking her.

Then tell him he has a super majority with Specter so you're even.
      Oh man I wouldn't stick my unit in THAT for money or bragging rights- it would be like banging Janeane Garafolo

Posted by: Jones at April 28, 2009 01:28 PM (KOkrW)

116

Just another thought.  The depression of 1929 started the day the smoot-hawley act was signed which placed tariffs on goods coming into this country triggering an international trade war.  Hmmm - think this could happen here once the UAW finds out it doesn't know squat about making and selling cars and they beg the govmnt for more money and protection. 

Live off the grid, stock up on ammo, find yourself a nice gal to carry wood, and don't carry anything less than a .40 caliber.  Grenades work too.

Posted by: gordo at April 28, 2009 01:28 PM (1kwr2)

117 We just handed control of most of our military-industrial capacity to the Communists.  The Bolshevik Revolution was a trade union phenomenon, for the most part, backed by Union thugs. 

Read "Das Kapital", "Rules for Radicals", and anything by the Right Reverand Jeremiah Wright.  Tremble in your boots.  As for buying Kias or Toyotas or Hondas or Benzes or Fiats or Jags or even mother fucking Citroens, guess again, Comrades.  This is a Communist country, now.  Ford is gone. Competition against the State is outlawed. 

Been good to know you.  See ya in the gulag.


Posted by: Concerned Christian Conservative at April 28, 2009 01:28 PM (ni9Ub)

118 Ha.  Just bought a Hyundai Sante Fe.  Now, I hope I can replace my other piece of crap with a non-GM or Chrysler (or Ford) before they tax the shit out of the other automakers!

Posted by: jjmurphy at April 28, 2009 01:30 PM (onqWT)

119 Honest Cloud - you still here? I thought I told you to go fuck yourself.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 28, 2009 01:30 PM (xGIqT)

120

#28..I have 4 Harleys in my garage. 1948-2004. I don't like Foreign bike, except maybe BMW. I got rid of my Fords and have an Accura RSX-S and a Sequioa. My leased Expedition was worth 5k, and the buyout was 11k.

No regrets.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 01:30 PM (TYqQt)

121 From my limited understanding of U.S. antitrust law, I cannot imagine the UAW would be permitted to control one of the two remaining US manufacturers, while controlling the labor management and negotiations of the other.

UAW's going to have to leave Ford. Divest its union to another might be a start, but we all know the unions collude. Ford has a card to play now: union-free.

Posted by: HatlessHessian at April 28, 2009 01:32 PM (7r7wy)

122 and don't carry anything less than a .40 caliber.

CALIBERIST!!!

Posted by: Concerned Christian Conservative at April 28, 2009 01:32 PM (ni9Ub)

123 From my limited understanding of U.S. antitrust law

Law?  What the fuck is that?  Seriously?

Posted by: Concerned Christian Conservative at April 28, 2009 01:33 PM (ni9Ub)

124

How much fucking pressure is the govt going to be under as de facto co-owner of these companies as well as being politically joined at the hip with the other co-owner, to restrict the flow of foriegn competition. We may see a disasterous trade war with our Asian partners yet.

My prediction: the government will attempt to voluntarily restrict all parts/vehicles from other nations (including Europe) to protect their investment. In the short term, they may even succeed in doing so. That, however,  will cause plant shutdowns/closures  in the South, where many of the Japanese have factories.

Then the screaming will start. Mark my words. There will be blood.

I will have popcorn.

Posted by: vixen at April 28, 2009 01:34 PM (/UcUb)

125

Run those fuckers into the ground, I don't give a crap. A lot of good all this restructuring will do when no one buys their cars.

I say boycott the hell out of them.

So naive, you divisive Republicans.  No wonder you lost.

There will be plenty of demand after my Economic Stimulus Plan II passes, in which there is a provision to invest in our economically disadvantaged population by giving them a new "green" automobile- for free.

Posted by: Barack Obama at April 28, 2009 01:35 PM (rf03a)

126

#41, holdfast...My Expedition actually rode better than the Sequoia. Everybody who rides in the Toyota claims it rides so much better, even though it has a straight axle, V.S. the independant rear in the Ford.

P.S. I pulled over to pee on a the side of a dirt road in VT last weekend and the right side sunk in mud........Gotta love the Locking Differentials!!! Walked right out.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 01:37 PM (TYqQt)

127 I, for one, look forward to a green, affordable mode of transport made by a collectively owned manufacturing concern.

Posted by: Education Major at April 28, 2009 01:38 PM (ni9Ub)

128 bondholders got completely fucked, and the unions both own both companies AND got over 50% of their money - bondholders get about 20% of their money and about a fifth of the stock the unions get.
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 28, 2009 05:10 PM (5r0Tz)

Of course they did that extra twenty percent the Unions got will be given back to the Dems in the form of kickbacks campaign contributions. This is payback pure and simple. How you feeling now all you knuckle heads that voted for Obama on the anything but McCain ticket or my personnel dumbass reason they can't be worse than the Repubs we have now? And this is just the beginning we still have healthcare and global warming coming by the time this year is over we will be lucky if we are not at 60% tax rates for everyone making anything over the poverty level.

Posted by: Oldcrow at April 28, 2009 01:40 PM (ZLiWZ)

129 Well, I like my Dodge Grand Caravan, and if y'all know of some good Toyota or Honda minivans, I'm all ears. As it is, I buy used cars only. I went with the Dodge last year because I couldn't find anything good for long-haul trips to replace our old VW Eurovan camper.

Still, wonder if/when the U.S. govt would ever sell their stock. And curious about any dividend policy at the new govt/union-owned company. Yes, the govt will be shoveling money into the company, not just in terms of direct cash support, but also contracts for govt car fleets. If I were Ford, I'd concentrate on car rental companies for their bulk sales.

Posted by: meep at April 28, 2009 01:40 PM (UhB0V)

130

The administration just announced yesterday that transparecy rules for Union books will no longer be enforced.

Coinkydink? I think not.

Posted by: bergerbilder at April 28, 2009 01:41 PM (u61UO)

131 Somebody says that GM will be the new AMTRAK. That's true, but it'll be better: you get to take the shitty workmanship, deplorable safety record and surly assholish customer service home with you. Now your life can suck at YOUR convenience instead of being tied to the train's schedule.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 28, 2009 01:41 PM (xGIqT)

132 "I, for one, look forward to a green, affordable mode of transport made by a collectively owned manufacturing concern."

A horse?

Posted by: jjmurphy at April 28, 2009 01:42 PM (onqWT)

133 I was actually going to buy the 9mm version of the XD-M, but the gunshop didn't have the 9. They had a .40, so that's what I bought. The ammo is more expensive, but is more readily available. Other than that, they're damn near the same round.

Since I've been shopping for weapons, I have been constantly amazed at how many Americans are buying guns and stocking up on ammo. Handgun ammo in some calibers -- particularly 9mm -- is almost impossible to find in any quantity. Rifle ammo in 5.56 (.223) and 7.62 (.30 likewise. I was talking to a guy who said that people are buying ammo a thousand rounds at a time. He thought it had to do with the Democrats now being in power, but I think it's something more nebulous. People who used to make fun of survivalists are now buying weapons, storable food, and stout clothes; they're stockpiling water, matches, etc. I don't see any large-scale hysteria here, but just a slow and steady movement on the part of many rural Americans to deal with some kind of extreme social upheaval.

I don't think it will get that bad. I don't think so. And yet...I feel a lot better now that I am prepared for any eventuality.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 01:46 PM (N13AA)

134 What was the name of that Soviet car manufacturer ,Zil??"You can have any color you want. ...as long as it's black."

Posted by: George Costanza at April 28, 2009 01:47 PM (dzIYr)

135 Concerned Christian Conservative writes:

Law?  What the fuck is that?  Seriously?

Absolutely good point. I finished Georgio Agamben's State of Exception a few weeks ago that explores what's really going on with Obama. Agamben, a pre-eminent Italian philosopher, professor and lecturer at European Graduate School's summer seminars, evaluates the nature of of Carl Schmitt's concept of the Exception as a quasi-legitimate political form, and looks at its place as within-law, external to law, and a quasi condition that is defined as not law but validated by it.

What all of that really gets to is an important conclusion: Hitler and numerous others did not seize power and become dictators. They expanded it through the use of the State of Exception and when nobody opposed their expansion, continued to run a democratic dictatorship with the full legitimacy of the state. It's not unique to Obama, though he's mastered it in unprecedented speed that puts other democratic dictators to shame. Bush utilized it with the Guantanamo detainees (the constitution does not specifically prescribe any authority or treatment for illegal combatants and the Congress did not do its duty to define such law), FDR and Lincoln were masters at the exception, and even Jefferson utilized the extra-legal approach in the purchase of the Lousiana Purchase (which had no defined legal foundation for him to carry out).

Agamben defines two types of executives who utilize the power and details attributes that help one understand the executive who is merely using it against their principles for the defense of the country in difficult times, vs. the executive who uses it to expand his power base. The latter historically leads to full dictatorship, the assault and elimination of enemies, and tyranny. The key to handling the latter type is identifying them and giving them organized and total opposition early on. Cooperation with their type, in the sitzpinkler McCain style, is only a guarantee of their ascention.

A wiki of the concept is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agamben#State_of_Exception_.282005.29  as I don't recommend the book to any but the most die-hard post-modern readers.

Oh, and for the trolls out there, please don't bother with Godwin's Law arguments until you've actually understood the argument the academically credible people like Agamben make. He's as critical as I am of all abusers of the Exception, including Bush who should have held Congress accountable for prescribing treatment. The reality we see now is that Pelosi was given an easy out by supporting waterboarding without having to put her reputation on the line.

Posted by: HatlessHessian at April 28, 2009 01:50 PM (7r7wy)

136 Still, wonder if/when the U.S. govt would ever sell their stock. And curious about any dividend policy at the new govt/union-owned company.
Posted by: meep at April 28, 2009 06:40 PM (UhB0V)

Uh hate to tell you this my friend but you now own stock in them, you just don't see it kinda like the Banks and other investment industry companies, dividends? Bawhahahahaha your joking right?

Posted by: Oldcrow at April 28, 2009 01:50 PM (ZLiWZ)

137 Begone sockpuppet and trouble me no more!!

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 01:50 PM (dzIYr)

138 Monty...Happy new gun....You'll love it. I traded my Sigma for it....And I will never carry that "Nazi .38", 9mm. I love the .40 and luckily, it is the only ammo I can find right now.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 01:51 PM (TYqQt)

139 Monty the XDM in 9mm is impressive because it's 19+1.Still you got what 15+1 .40?I'd take it.....

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 01:52 PM (dzIYr)

140 139 Hey 9mm para predates the Nazi's I think.....

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 01:53 PM (dzIYr)

141 Oh screw it.. just tell me when and where to show up for my daily ass phuckin' for next 4 years. No one is going to start "the ruckus", so we might as well just give them their jollies.

Posted by: UGRev at April 28, 2009 01:56 PM (vqQOA)

142 Thanks for the History lesson stevy. I learned from an old timer that Nazis used that caliber in many different weapons, hence the name.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 02:00 PM (TYqQt)

143 The strangest part is that Americans are not rioting in the streets as we speak. That will change.

Posted by: Cigarette Man at April 28, 2009 02:01 PM (U+Kew)

144 steevy:

If I run into anything that takes more than fifteen shots to kill, I ain't gonna be using a fucking handgun on it anyway.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 02:01 PM (N13AA)

145 Yeah, Monty - it used to be the HS2000 until Springfield bought the U.S. rights. It's still an excellent pistol, especially for home defense. It'd be pretty hard to conceal with that blocky slide, though, unless you're Andre the Giant's size. It's a good natural pointer. I'm trying to convince my wife to get one, but she's more comfortable with wheelguns. Maybe a used S&W Combat Master. Congrats on your new acquisition. Take pride in the fact that somewhere, a hippy dropped his hacky sack in the gutter.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 28, 2009 02:02 PM (xGIqT)

146

Aaaaaah, creepily prescient Cigarette Man is here, time to start drinking.

Gin and tonics for everyone.

p.s. If the apocalypse comes can I lean on one of you morons to protect me? I promise to provide food and sexual favors.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 28, 2009 02:04 PM (AJ4xq)

147 I used to buy Chevys and jeeps, since 1983. I have bought my last jeep or Chevy. Fuck the damn unions. They can go hungry and kiss my ass.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2009 02:05 PM (driql)

148 Hey 9mm para predates the Nazi's I think.....

9mm is just the metric version of the old .38 bullet. The .40's metric cousin is the 10mm. Roughly -- I know there are slight differences in primer, powder, neck, etc. I know lots of shooters pooh-pooh a 9mm because they think it's a weak round, but I've talked to cops who have put bad guys down with 9mm, and most were DRT (with Hydra-Shok rounds).

I wanted a nine because they kick less, and I wanted to ease back into shooting a pistol because I haven't done it in years and years. But 9mm cannot be had for love or money as far as I can tell, while .40 is at least available (if expensive). You can't get .45ACP either.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 02:06 PM (N13AA)

149 The cartridge was first available in 1902.The Germans used it as the standard pistol round starting from the P08(*known incorrectly as a Luger to most Americans).The actually still used 7.65 para and even smaller rounds as staff officers and other not likely combatants carried PPK's,PP's and a host of other small automatics.Monty the 15 isn't for one target of course,you aren't in the NYPD after all.(Sorry if I offend any officers with that but they really are poorly trained,barely trained at all to use their weapons in NYPD.That ain't their fault.)

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 02:07 PM (dzIYr)

150

First On Race Day. I won't own anything but a Ford.

GM and Chrysler will go under, and real soon.

Posted by: saintsfan at April 28, 2009 02:07 PM (waiJk)

151 Show me a picture.

Of the food.

Posted by: INCITEmarsh at April 28, 2009 02:07 PM (65e0S)

152 We knew this would happen. Now who is the UAW going to milk for benefits? The well is dry and sales are not going anywhere except down. GM and Chrysler are bringing out models that were designed years ago with nothing for the future. The politicized motors will make craptacular cars that no one wants then the government will be the buyer of last resort; if Obama is still in power after 2012. It will be fun watching it crumble, like a sand castle in high tide. The Obama adminstration and the UAW trying to run an auto company... good luck with that.

Posted by: theworldisnotenough at April 28, 2009 02:08 PM (EytRx)

153 If the apocalypse comes can I lean on one of you morons to protect me? I promise to provide food and sexual favors.

You have my full and undivided attention.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 02:10 PM (N13AA)

154 Monty, the XD is the only pistol Springfield Armory sells that is made in Croatia.  It is, in fact, a Croatian design sold under license in the U.S.  It used to be called the HS2000 if memory serves.  They are fantastic pistols.  I never shoot my HK USP anymore, as the XD just plain feels better to me.

Posted by: Achmed at April 28, 2009 02:10 PM (x7T2O)

155

Monty @ 149

9mm ammo is  more reasonable than .45acp, .40, or 10mm. It's a good round, especially when handloaded.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2009 02:10 PM (driql)

156 I guess the UAW will have to go on strike against its self too.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2009 02:13 PM (PQY7w)

157 Buy your Colt/Bushmaster/Armalite/S&W while you still can.


Posted by: Dang Straights at April 28, 2009 02:14 PM (0AZIO)

158 Anyone know where I can get some .308 147-150 grain NATO for less than $17.90 box(20) ?

Posted by: UGRev at April 28, 2009 02:14 PM (vqQOA)

159 Achmed: Agreed on the XD-M feeling really good. I've got midsized hands, and that pistol fits my hand better than any other weapon I tried. I was really tempted to go the 1911 route, but now I'm glad I didn't. The "chunkiness" of the gun appeals to me -- I don't like lightweight guns. They feel too insubstantial to me, which is one reason I was a little hesitant to go with a plastic gun (sorry -- "polymer").

maddogg: Agreed on the 9mm. I'm happy enough with the .40S&W, but I would still have preferred a 9mm. But the lack of readily-available ammo for that gun makes it less attractive for the near future.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 02:15 PM (N13AA)

160

Well, Obama can always look at the Russian Communists for inspiration. Didn't the Russkies built a great car, in the same league as the Yugo?

 

I figger Crysler and Gov'mint motors will be able to equal the success of Yugo.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2009 02:15 PM (driql)

161 UGRev, I buy from: midwayusa.com natchezss.com cheaperthandirt.com most of them have boxes of .308 in that weight for less than $18 Lotsa stuff is on backorder, though. I'm dusting off my old RCBS single stage press and saving all my brass. Pretty soon "rolling yer own" is going to be the only cost effective way to keep shooting.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 28, 2009 02:22 PM (xGIqT)

162

Here's an illustration that combines food and sexual positions:

http://tinyurl.com/cz7lcl

 

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 28, 2009 02:22 PM (AJ4xq)

163

UAW member: "Let's get the mutherfukers in headlock and knuckle them up until they give in!"

UAW Thug: "Uhm guys, this is OUR joint now. We own all this shit and the bastards with all those unfixed warranty claims are at the Gates. They're gonna kill us the minute we leave the plant".

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 02:24 PM (TYqQt)

164 163 I'd do her.

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 02:25 PM (dzIYr)

165 Gee, how exciting! Gingerbreadman porn.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2009 02:25 PM (driql)

166 PGIS...I'd lick the bowl while you're cooking. IYKWIMAITTYD

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 02:29 PM (TYqQt)

167
The next step, of course, is for Obama to start regulating emissions, mileage, safety, etc., in such a way that nobody else can sell cars in the US. Then the Marxist revolution will be complete, at least in the auto industry.

Posted by: geoff at April 28, 2009 02:30 PM (Y7gRN)

168 A union running an auto company.

Welcome to the hen house, foxes.

Posted by: Aaron at April 28, 2009 02:31 PM (gftD1)

169 Hollowpoint (82) really put this in perspective. The GM & Chrysler business model isn't changed, they still have the same overhead that they always had. The only thing  they can do now is funnel more and more taxpayer money into these so-called businesses and regulate to give give them an advantage. These companies are not going away, they are just going cost us a shitload of money. 

Posted by: rian at April 28, 2009 02:32 PM (i9UrF)

170 CNBC is discussing this now.  Denis is a little surprised that the trusting bondholders have a 30% stake and are getting nothing back.   The union guy is like "screw them, it's an investment, they did their due diligence and they lost" and Denis is freaking out cause the union only has a 10% interest in all this.  Can anyone tell me if Bush's chief of staff was ever interviewed where he/she spoke for Bush?  Cause it seems that all these guy are out there speaking for BO.  Why doesn't BO just do the interviews?

Posted by: muffy at April 28, 2009 02:32 PM (zplc6)

171 "If the apocalypse comes can I lean on one of you morons to protect me? I promise to provide food and sexual favors." ParanoidGirlInSeattle @ 147

I, for one, am here for you. I've got plenty of ammo and loads of weapons. I also have a significant stock of dry beans and canned goods in addition to plenty of bottled water.

One thing: No arguments when I tell you to get me a sammich!!

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 28, 2009 02:35 PM (fnU+z)

172 Government fleets. Chrysler will do just fine. Want a defense contract? Your fleet will also be Chrysler.

Posted by: t-bird at April 28, 2009 02:36 PM (FcR7P)

173

One thing: No arguments when I tell you to get me a sammich!!

OK, then no arguments when I tell you to head down to the zombie Starbucks, break in and get me some coffee.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 28, 2009 02:44 PM (AJ4xq)

174 I consolidated my handguns on 9mm and buy it in bulk when I find it... ultimately it's really only a back-up for when I run dry on 7.62x51, 5.56 and 00 / #4 buckshot... it's good to have an ammo fort

I've shot the XDm and it was nice but I have a long term relationship with my dead nuts accurate Glock 19.

Posted by: Primal Concrete Sledge at April 28, 2009 02:44 PM (qmOxq)

175 I posted that he was going to give it to the unions and none of you listened.

Posted by: bill gross at April 28, 2009 02:48 PM (zplc6)

176 Doesn't GM have government contracts?

Posted by: bill gross at April 28, 2009 02:49 PM (zplc6)

177

watch for things like hardwiring speed limiters at 65mph(green option 45).

At ObeAutos a horse&mule stable used as loaners.

Posted by: ron dorque at April 28, 2009 02:55 PM (aYXav)

178 Primal Concrete Sledge: The XDM is damned near the same weapon as the Glock. The only reason I went with the XDM was that the grips felt better to my hand, and I actually liked the heavier feel. I was pretty nonplussed at the mall-ninja bling you can get on handguns now: OD green or dark-earth grips, rails for flashlights/red-dots/etc., speedloaders, tritium sights, etc. One high-end pistol even had a fricking digital readout ammo counter!

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 02:59 PM (N13AA)

179 Go long Ford.

Posted by: UofC Conservative at April 28, 2009 03:01 PM (ivwt+)

180

Last month I bought a new F-150 and I've been very happy with my purchase. The dealer I bought the truck from made it a point that Ford didn't take any bailout money. 

I used to be a Chevy man, even looked forward to the new Camaro.  GM can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned.

173 Government fleets. Chrysler will do just fine. Want a defense contract? Your fleet will also be Chrysler.
Yeah, what is it about the DoD and Chrysler?  In my experience it seemed the Army loved the Dodge Stratus for a civilian vehicle, yet its is such a shitty car. At least the MPs had Impalas.    Even the Louisiana state government buys a lot of Dodge vehicles. I did some contract work for a state agency and all of their fleet vehicles were Durangos.

Posted by: Pechon at April 28, 2009 03:03 PM (MM3Xh)

181 Bondholders have already rejected the GM proposal... As expected... The Fed's lawyers obviously have never heard of concepts such as "fraudulent conveyance", "equitable subordination", and "lender's liability"...  Once recoveries are this low, bondholders are strong believers in fairness... If the Fed tries to push this plan, the bondholders will flush GM in a protracted bankruptcy, because unlike other courts, the Bankruptcy Court is a court of equity and fairness.

Posted by: phreshone at April 28, 2009 03:04 PM (oH2N4)

182 175 Pantera fan obviously?

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 03:07 PM (dzIYr)

183 180 Go long Ford.

Posted by: UofC Conservative at April 28, 2009 08:01 PM (ivwt+)


Already up 100% on my investment...

Posted by: phreshone at April 28, 2009 03:08 PM (oH2N4)

184 Monty: Nothing wrong at all with the XDm as I said it's a nice pistol and at this point I'm glad we still  have a choice to buy whatever floats our boats.

Unfortunately. I don't think the same will be true when it comes to cars in the future.

A bit more off topic but I want to share this story about a recent trip my family took to visit some family. Upon arrival at the in-laws house my wife reports to me that she see's something so incredible it defied logic...these people have a life size Obama cut out standing on the landing in their stairwell.... My wife got a picture of it for me because she didn't think I would believe it when she told me. Fortunately,  I couldn't make it down for the visit with her because I would have probably turned around and left the building causing a bit of a rift.

I am at a loss as to what it would take to shake some sense into the true believers like the ones that put a life size cut out of their overlord in their home.


Posted by: Primal Concrete Sledge at April 28, 2009 03:15 PM (qmOxq)

185 steevy

indeed

Posted by: Primal Concrete Sledge at April 28, 2009 03:16 PM (qmOxq)

186 185 Did he have those cool eyes that follow you around the room?

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2009 03:34 PM (dzIYr)

187 Awesome, the same greedy motherfuckers who are responsible for this crap by not willing to sacrifice a god damned thing.  Rewarding unions with more power is the wrong thing to be doing.   Unions are detrimental to this nations prosperity.  Unions had their place...80 years ago.  Time for them to go.

Posted by: Melodic_Metal at April 28, 2009 03:36 PM (9QC0z)

188 Monty,,does the XDM feel a little front end heavy to you when loaded? I've always been a wheel gun man, except for a Tanfolio .380 throw down...I shop where the cops shop. They were all over these in 9mm. They said they would love the .40, but were limited by department rules. And free practice ammo.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 03:38 PM (TYqQt)

189 And you assholes saying let GM & Chrysler die. You'll all be envious of me when I get me new Chevy, 3 wheel, 2-stroke, dump truck with less than 400 lbs capacity. 

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 03:41 PM (TYqQt)

190 Looks like Toyota and Nissan just got green-lighted to take over the entire US auto industry.  Have a nice day, Detroit.

Will the Obama administration now mandate that every American home buy a GM or Chrysler product?

Posted by: GarandFan at April 28, 2009 03:42 PM (C3okI)

191

hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 06:30 PM (TYqQt)

Hey Hutch if that 48 HD is a Panhead (first year pan last year Springer) then I hate your guts...... Just kidding.

Love that bike.

Hey Monty  - your point about trying to buy American is well taken.  I went to go buy a part for my 00' GMC truck only to find out that it was made in Canada.

go figure.

Posted by: Roadking at April 28, 2009 03:42 PM (JpfXc)

192 Hey Hutch or other gun enthusiats - What do you think of the Taurus 24/7 9mm?

Posted by: Roadking at April 28, 2009 03:45 PM (JpfXc)

193 Sorry, I have a '49 and '50 Flatheads. Funny thing is I run the ass off these two and never have trouble. I can  hang with the one crew of pussies I ride with on back roads. Even though one is suicide shift, with mousetrap, and the other is tank shift..

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 03:47 PM (TYqQt)

194 R-King...all of my Wheel guns are stainless Taurus'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that weapon a Barretta clone?...BTW..at prices today, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Taurus. 

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 03:50 PM (TYqQt)

195 They must be 74"s if your keeping up with any thing modern.  Good for you - I love old iron. 

Posted by: Roadking at April 28, 2009 03:51 PM (JpfXc)

196 They have a Barretta copy but this is not the one.  You nailed it - price and quality have lead me to Taurus and that 24/7 has a lot of great features so it is probably where I will end up.

Posted by: Roadking at April 28, 2009 03:54 PM (JpfXc)

197 hutch1200:

I'm still getting used to the XDM, but it feels nicely balanced when fully loaded. But then, as I said before, I like a heavier pistol. It feels more substantial than the Glock. It's easy to aim, and recovery after recoil is fairly easy even with the hotter .40S&W round. The trigger has a fairly short recovery, too. I like it so far, but I'll need to shoot it more to have a definite opinion. I only fired off 10 rounds or so on the range when I bought it. I'm taking it to the range this weekend and I'll run a hundred rounds or so through it -- I'll know better by then how well I'm handling it.

Posted by: Monty at April 28, 2009 03:58 PM (N13AA)

198 Nothing new to add that the first 20 or so commenters haven't already said but I just want to note that I too will have a great time laughing and laughing at the fiasco that is coming to Detroit. Sucks to be Ford - maybe they can be agile enough to be successful. Before you say how stupid that sounds - don't forget - now they're competing against Nancy Pelosi!

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 28, 2009 03:58 PM (8PuNu)

199

Obama-mobile* anyone?

no takers?

you're all RACISTS!

(names will be taken)

 

*Obama-Mobile moniker used by permisson of Government Motors (TM)

 

 

 

Posted by: shoey at April 28, 2009 03:59 PM (RxUMK)

200

Can you imagine the joy of calling the Government warranty center to discuss replacing the transmission in your UAW/Government produced car?  You will receive the same service available at the Post Office, IRS, Congress, or your local DMV.  These entities are populated by insolent assholes who only have an interest in lunch hour and what time they go home. 

The only solution to this problem?  Never purchase a UAW/GM or Chrysler product again or suffer the dire consequences.

Posted by: Fish at April 28, 2009 05:28 PM (CG+cG)



The Ford commercials practically write themselves.

Posted by: turtle at April 28, 2009 04:00 PM (N5Xhz)

201 91 Do I shoot his dogs or burn his house down?

What would Michael Vick do?

Posted by: Michael Vick at April 28, 2009 04:01 PM (Gzb30)

202 Thanx Monty. BTW, Cheaper than dirt had nothing in .40 yesterday. The shop I use agreed to sell me a case for $225.00 Not bad considering the asking price for the pistol was $579.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 28, 2009 04:03 PM (TYqQt)

203 Another indication it is end times. 

Posted by: Vladmir Putin at April 28, 2009 04:04 PM (0Qynq)

204 115

Damn, that sucks.  I've dealt with Cerberus before and they are really hard to kill, especially when the pups that they spawn grow to full size and...

Actually, Cerberus OWNs Chrysler, and is trying to unload it.

Posted by: Holdfast at April 28, 2009 04:05 PM (Gzb30)

205 Actually, Cerberus OWNs Chrysler, and is trying to unload it.

Posted by: Holdfast at April 28, 2009 09:05 PM (Gzb30)

They succeeded.

Posted by: Education Major at April 28, 2009 04:20 PM (4pe6h)

206 I'm an evil Jooo and I'm gonna look mighty fine in my new German car.  No more GM/Chrysler.  I weep for the Jeep brand.

Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at April 28, 2009 04:27 PM (PBGAP)

207 People, people....just imagine yourselves cruising down the highway at 35 mph in your brand new GETTELFINGER! 

Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at April 28, 2009 04:30 PM (PBGAP)

208 Roadking,
I'm one of those crazy f-er that sleeps with a firearm very close at hand. So the firearm for this is my Taurus 24/7 .40. I also have a XD45 compact. The reason I "sleep" with my Taurus is the thumb safety, where the XD doesn't have one and I'd be uncomfortable having a round chambered with it nearby. Anyways the Taurus is a solid gun, I've never had any quality issues. But the XD is my best gal for taking around town.

Posted by: turtle at April 28, 2009 04:33 PM (N5Xhz)

209

Remember the court-ordered bailout of the United Airlines pension plan? United and its unions negotiated a contract which included pension guarantees which United's revenues later proved unable to cover. The court ordered taxpayers to make good on the deal. It's as though I sell you a broken teacup for $1,000,000, you  renege on the deal, I sue, and the court orders taxpayers to pay me the $1,000,000. Actually, it's worse. United is a union-owned company. I sell myself a broken teacup for $1,000,000. I renege on the deal, sue muself, and the court orders taxpayers to pay me $1,000,000.  Much more is coming.

Posted by: Malcolm Kirkpatrick at April 28, 2009 04:38 PM (1OWYE)

210 The US is the last, greatest hope for mankind, but we're fading fast.  Gawd Dam Muthuh Fuchin' Beeatch I'm POed!

Posted by: GregInSeattle at April 28, 2009 05:20 PM (gbGqE)

211 I will be in the market early next year for a new car .. it won't be an Obamabox/Government Motors model.

Speaking of ammo.. as sad as it sounds I am doing the snoopy dance for scoring 1500 rounds of  British Military surplus 7.62 FMJ for about 59 cents a round. If only I could go back in time knowing what I know now.. ahhh the cheap ammo fort I could have built.

Posted by: Primal Concrete Sledge at April 28, 2009 05:30 PM (qmOxq)

212

So the workers now own the means of production.

But none dare call it Marxism.

Posted by: tsj017 at April 28, 2009 05:36 PM (TV9JE)

213 Fuck the UAW, Fuck GM, Fuck Chrysler, and Fuck the Democrats who orchestrated this.  It's Ford or a foreign car for this family from here on out.

Posted by: Sgt. Rock at April 28, 2009 05:44 PM (cWg6W)

214

People, people....just imagine yourselves cruising down the highway at 35 mph in your brand new GETTELMIDDLEFINGER! 

There ya go Mrs. Paul- fixed it for ya.

Posted by: Bill H at April 28, 2009 05:46 PM (q8CmE)

215 Nightmare cars of the 70s, they'll be back. If they bring back vinyl tops, RUN

Plymouth Volare, Plymouth Duster, Ford Mustang II, Ford Pinto, Chevy Vega, Chevy Monza, Chevy Chevette, Triumph TR7, Volkswagen Rabbit, AMC Pacer, AMC Hornet, Chrysler Cordoba, etc..

Morbidly obese, pitifully underpowered, poorly built, even the models that live today were horrors in the 70s that rusted away even on the showroom floor.




Posted by: kbdabear at April 28, 2009 06:09 PM (miw86)

216 Someone mentioned that United Airlines is heavily owned by their union. Considering that every airline nightmare story I have occurred with UAL, I foresee a giant black hole being created that sucks in taxpayer cash.

Posted by: kbdabear at April 28, 2009 06:12 PM (miw86)

217 Corporatism uber alles!!!

Posted by: Gen. Sherman at April 28, 2009 06:25 PM (blNMI)

218 OT: Niestety, ale I zaktualizowane do IE8 wczoraj i po prostu zrealizowanych mo¿na podœwietliæ tekst i przet³umaczyæ na inny jêzyk za pomoc¹ kilku klikniêæ! ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT? /Sam Jackson mode

Posted by: cheshirecat at April 28, 2009 06:28 PM (AmB18)

219

Owned Chevys or Chryslers most of my life.  No more.  As long as Ford can hold out against government subsidized competition, I'll buy Fords.  Actually I planned to do that since they wouldn't accept bailout money. When Ford goes, I'll keep clunkers running till the day I die.  I woun't buy a fucking government/UAW car.  Period.  Dan Keith, Ohio, Semper Fidelis.

Specter, Obama, Frank. Dodd, Hillary et al Kiss my hairy wrinkled ass.

Posted by: Dan at April 28, 2009 06:29 PM (ygjiI)

220 Dan, if you're looking for a good truck, the Japanese really don't have anything for you, but if you want a good car, there's nothing unAmerican about buying a nice Honda.

Posted by: Dark Halo at April 28, 2009 08:15 PM (8jYMc)

221

p.s. If the apocalypse comes can I lean on one of you morons to protect me? I promise to provide food and sexual favors.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 28, 2009 07:04 PM (AJ4xq)

I would like to say, without a hint of sarcasm, that I am fascinated by your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at April 28, 2009 09:28 PM (or0jG)

222 I will never buy another GM or Chrysler product as long as the government is part owner in order to prop up the worthless unions.

Posted by: Dave at April 29, 2009 03:10 AM (Xm1aB)

223 Someone mentioned that United Airlines is heavily owned by their union. Considering that every airline nightmare story I have occurred with UAL, I foresee a giant black hole being created that sucks in taxpayer cash.

Was, before they went into bankruptcy.  Ironic fact of the morning - the same person who brokered the UAL/union-ownership deal is brokering the UAW Motors/Government Motors deals.

 

Posted by: steveegg at April 29, 2009 03:16 AM (UGOcx)

224 Sure, every car sold will be at a loss, and the company will continue to hemorrage money- but the Dems will make damned sure that the unions don't suffer the consequences.  That's what taxpayers are for.  And private bondholders?  Screw them too; their own fault for not contributing more campaign cash.

Well, yeah. But they can't keep that up forever. This is long run good, for a couple of reasons:

Possibility 1 - The UAW will grow the fuck up and realize it's in the business of making cars that people will want to buy. Then the UAW will fight itself. This will cause the UAW to either stop sucking or die. Either is good.

Possibility 2 - The UAW will continue to act like the pirates they are and destroy Chrysler and GM. Even the feddle gummint can't keep sticking their fingers in this dyke forever. No more Chrysler and GM, and eventually, no more UAW.

Ford is in a rather ticklish position. It has a contract with the union that owns its competitors. A good smart lawsuit could either free Ford of its union contract or break the union's hold on its competitors. But that's IF Ford has the balls for it. If they don't, they're merely en route to becoming a subsidiary of Union Auto. I'm going to wait a few weeks before deciding whether to buy Ford stock.

Posted by: Andrew the Noisy at April 29, 2009 04:07 AM (V0QP1)

225 This makes it a certainty that Chrysler (as well as General Motors) will be defunct within the next few years. Shouldn't there be a Dead Pool for Chrysler and GM? It'll certainly be interesting to have simply The Big One. Presuming that Ford can survive long-term. How ironic, when Ford was in the most desperate straits of the three just a few years ago, and builds ugly, doggy products.

Posted by: D1Stewart at April 29, 2009 04:23 AM (FzoZg)

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