February 01, 2014

The Senate Races & Immigration
— CAC

Sean Trende took a cue from AmishDude, and considered the concept that the GOP is outright terrified of winning big. Ok he didn't consider it, he ran with it:

The idea is twofold. First, a landslide would present as much of a problem as it does an opportunity for those who might want to revisit the issue in 2015, especially if the GOP establishment (or its donors) believes this is a must-do before the 2016 elections. The base would be even more agitated after a big victory, and appalled at any compromise on this issue if the GOP picks it up in 2015. In addition, absent a majority, Democrats wouldn’t have the same incentive to support a bill that contained further compromises, especially since they already view the bill as a compromise in the first place. They’d be better off watching Republicans flail and fail to pass a bill as their own base abandons them; this is roughly what happened in the mid-2000s.

This makes sense of the timing issue. Perhaps the GOP really did plan on letting the issue die last summer, when taking the Senate looked like a 50-50 shot, and breaking even in the House seemed like the order of the day. But then the Obamacare rollout hit, and suddenly Republicans looked like they might enjoy a 2010 redux.

If that’s the setup, then Beutler’s observation in No. 3 also makes sense. If a fight is inevitable, have it now rather than a much messier one in 2015. Maybe the Senate Democrats won’t be able to swallow a bill with tougher enforcement provisions and without a path to citizenship, and they will own part of the death of immigration reform. Or maybe they’ll pass it, and the issue will be partly cleared off the table for an election year. For an establishment Republican, that’s win-win.

But I think it there’s another, broader factor involved. When you get past the top tier of recruits -- the Mike Rounds and Shelley Capitos of the world -- and get into the more marginal seats that could fall for Democrats in a wave election, you start to get into candidates like Ken Buck. People have almost written Buck off, but I haven’t; while I think there are smarter choices for the Colorado GOP, he barely lost in 2010, and conditions for Democrats are no better right now than they were in 2010. There’s a similar crop of candidates in second-tier House races. The last thing the leadership wants is another crop of Ted Cruzes and Rand Pauls in the Senate, nor does it want another dozen Tea Partiers in the House.

This isn’t to suggest that the GOP leadership is affirmatively doing this to minimize Republican gains. What I am saying is that they are closer to neutral about big gains than we might think, given the problems that the surge in base enthusiasm caused for them after the 2010 elections. So if they check agenda items like this off the list now and still get a landslide, great. But if they end up cooling off the base’s enthusiasm and get a narrow, establishment-based Senate majority and keep the House, well, that’s not the end of the world either. In fact, it would mean a more docile caucus in both Houses, which is good for those who run those Houses.

This hypothesis makes sense to me as well, because I can actually see a very, very large gain for the Republicans if conditions as they stand continued or even worsened for the Democrats over Obamacare. One of the core assumptions of this theory- that the GOP is facing big gains- absolutely holds water.

Screen Shot 2014-02-01 at 10.33.12 AM.png

Words build a story, the picture tells it. This is what we are gambling away in exchange for something the core of the party itself does not want.

Realistically, seeing the GOP picking up between seven and ten seats is no longer crazy. Well, at least it wasn't before this latest poke in the eye. Republicans are favored in seven contests now, "tied" in Alaska (thanks to a lack of data), and trailing narrowly in Iowa, Colorado, and New Hampshire. Four more seats- Oregon, Minnesota, Virginia and New Mexico- could surprise as well, if an anti-Ocare wave continued to build. Ten seats would tie the GOP's strongest Senate majority since we've had 50 states- 55, and exceeding that? You're talking 1920's-level dominance.

With so many races coming up Milhouse, perhaps this gamble is worth it, short-term, to the Republican leadership. I can see several seats still flipping to the Republicans despite the bill: Montana, South Dakota, West Virginia, and if anti-Obamacare fever holds, a few Democrat incumbents representing states that have already left them.

My problem with the "they don't want to win...big" theory is there are a lot of Republicans up in just 2 years who would be looking at such a gamble as toxic to their chances, if the amnesty-passage doesn't send Hispanic voters flocking to them (spoiler: it won't). Republicans, to put it nicely, got reamed royally at the end of 2006. Their base, sickened by the amnesty push and annoyed with the floundering in Iraq, rightfully abandoned a party that had lost it's way. As Trende had indicated in a previous article, 2016 is looking to be a real bear for Republicans, so they would need this year to be a big win to hold onto the Senate, should they get it. Worse, if they don't even score a majority this year, the losses in 2016 could potentially send the Republicans down into the 40-vote zone again, making the Senate GOP even more powerless and useless than it currently is.

The assumption under this scenario is that the leadership has weighed the good versus the bad, figures they can still pull out a victory, and get their long-coveted amnesty; and that their base, which has warned them repeatedly not to commit such profound asshattery, will still pull them through in the end.

Judging from the past behavior of these guys, and the very strong reactions to all previous amnesty attempts, I have my doubts.

I like to win. I love watching states change from blue to red. Really, really love that. So, watching the Republicans do this to themselves when they were on the verge of a historic romp, you just have to shake your head. The bare minimum a party should try to do is win, but I guess that's just a bit too much to ask from the GOP these days.

Posted by: CAC at 05:04 AM | Comments (359)
Post contains 1099 words, total size 7 kb.

1 What are the odds that Texas will go purple/blue by 2016 (without an amnesty deal)?  Isn't every other state moot if that occurs, assuming NY, CA remain dark blue?

Posted by: JakeTaylor at February 01, 2014 05:23 AM (VMV/i)

2 CAC, I have never seen a group of people more determined to shoot themselves in the foot, consistently, than GOP congresscritters.


Their illogic is nearly inexplicable.

They could have a team of 5 Michael Jordans and would still lose.  It's dumbfounding.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:23 AM (x3YFz)

3 Huh.  First.  Cool cool cool.

Posted by: JakeTaylor at February 01, 2014 05:24 AM (VMV/i)

4 Those videos where you see the football player pick up a fumble and run to the wrong endzone?

Yup.  That's the GOP.  Every day.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:24 AM (x3YFz)

5 That big thingy in the middle isn't loading for me.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 01, 2014 05:25 AM (bCEmE)

6 I like watching states change from blue to red, too, but only if changing to blue *means* something. This R "leadership" has put up two "moderate" presidential candidates in a row and then were shocked with poor base turnout in the general election. I expect they are still thinking the base will crawl across broken glass again, when recent history has shown that the base absolutely will not crawl for these people any more.

Posted by: major major major major at February 01, 2014 05:25 AM (fRYRo)

7 Aren't these GOP "moderates" making a huge assumption on making it through the primaries?

Posted by: Icedog at February 01, 2014 05:27 AM (uZ6Ul)

8 #5 What browser are you using?

Posted by: CAC at February 01, 2014 05:27 AM (NQYmW)

9 Firefox...and I turned NoScript off.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 01, 2014 05:28 AM (bCEmE)

10
We may be assholes, but we have a winning strategy to limit the number of gains so the liberals will continue to ask ust to parties, but more importantly,  to guarantee jobs in the Washington structure after we leave Congress.  Don't mess with our gig you unwashed goobers!

Posted by: Republican CongressRats at February 01, 2014 05:28 AM (nQjHM)

11 5 That big thingy in the middle isn't loading for me I had that problem on my honeymoon too a little blue pill should fix you right up

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 05:28 AM (At8tV)

12 "Sean Trende took a cue from AmishDude, and considered the concept that the GOP is outright terrified of winning big..."

Sadly, that makes a lot of sense to me. Stupid Party....

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 05:30 AM (ULH4o)

13 The difference is perception and the Media propaganda. The Democrats shoot themselves in the foot all the time (i.e "Obamacare"), but they get to spin this as a victory for the Middle Class or some other claptrap. The Media is always complicit in Democrat propaganda, so there is always a segment of the voting public that can always be counted on to vote Democrat. This has been true since at least 1932. The Democrats have done so many counter productive actions to economic growth (for fairness), yet these are "victories"; such as the latest nonsense about minimum wage, taxes , etc. The problem the Republicans have is leadership, or lack of it. They cannot must a consistent Conservative Populist message, because they do not want to. This message ALWAYS works to capture majorities when it is used clearly and honestly, but this is also counter to those with greatest influence in the Party. It seems really stupid to us, because they are frankly giving the middle finger to use plebes in the base.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 01, 2014 05:30 AM (+1T7c)

14 Nice analysis. However I think you underestimate the sheer whorishness of gutting the country in return for corporate money for reelection campaigns.

And...I can barely see the map!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 01, 2014 05:31 AM (QFxY5)

15 The light of victory? It burns, it burns!!! Turn it off!!!

Posted by: The GOP at February 01, 2014 05:32 AM (yZMgy)

16 CAC, mind if I replace the map with a screen shot? It's not loading for me on the main page either.

Posted by: Andy at February 01, 2014 05:33 AM (vGQV1)

17 between voter fraud and all the new illegals, the house may be closer to going away too if the stupid party isn't careful

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 05:33 AM (At8tV)

18 Basically, it's about the elites having an easier time being elites, not about advancing conservatism or silly old representative government.

Posted by: --- at February 01, 2014 05:33 AM (MMC8r)

19 When will the repub 'leadership' end this winter of discontent? More snow and wind today and I want John-John and Ryan to shovel my driveway.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 01, 2014 05:33 AM (hpgw1)

20 If this is the GOP's leadership strategy they are even dumber than I thought.  Even a creosote post puts them to shame.


However, give that BS advice they got from their overpaid consultants at the end of the 2012 debacle I don't think that it is a strategy to halt support for amnesty.   I think the leadership really doesn't think they must get the Hispanic vote by caving on amnesty.


I also saw an article this morning that said there is very little support among the rank and file for that BS Boner proposal.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 01, 2014 05:34 AM (T2V/1)

21 #16 No problem Andy. Second time in a week this stuff isn't working properly...

Posted by: CAC at February 01, 2014 05:34 AM (NQYmW)

22 Basically, it's about the elites having an easier time being elites, not about advancing conservatism or silly old representative government. Posted by: --- a Exactly right.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 01, 2014 05:35 AM (+1T7c)

23 Republican wing of the permanent bipartisan fusion party; of the politicians, by the politicians, for the politicians. We are just cattle to them.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 01, 2014 05:35 AM (+jyzN)

24 The open heat map works for me (once I enabled scripts for that domain).

Posted by: --- at February 01, 2014 05:35 AM (MMC8r)

25 20 give that BS advice they got from their overpaid consultants think of all the money they would save if they fired the rove types and just used common sense and did a few town halls

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 05:36 AM (At8tV)

26 The thought that we have a political party that is really afraid to lead, to win, to have the reins of power to direct the country in a positive manner just leaves me speechless, disgusted and very angry.  Contrast it to the Dems, who would sell their own mothers' souls to the devil himself to get their agenda rammed down America's throat.  A big cleansing needs to happen within the GOP.  A colossal enema. 

Posted by: Lady in Black at February 01, 2014 05:36 AM (Oa7B2)

27 This is a mess they're creating because the bottom line for the national GOP is that they care more about donation money from the Chamber of Commerce than they do about winning seats (with or without conservatism). CoC wants their cheap labor and the GOP wants to give it to them. It's that simple.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 01, 2014 05:36 AM (qFpRI)

28
Second time in a week this stuff isn't working properly...

Posted by: CAC at February 01, 2014 10:34 AM (NQYmW)

hmm.  worked fine for me.  Also running firefox, win 7.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:36 AM (x3YFz)

29 Fixt.

Posted by: Andy at February 01, 2014 05:37 AM (vGQV1)

30 What's the point of working hard to replace liberal democrats with liberal republicans when the liberal republicans do the exact same things that liberal democrats are going to do? Amnesty is their top priority? With the bad economy, SocSec crumbling slowly, Medicare and Medicaid crumbling quickly, 404ChoomCare bankrupting the middle class, and they are worried about amnesty?

Let it burn until a third party comes along. I quit. Time to sign up for food stamps and Social Security disability.

Posted by: RoadRunner at February 01, 2014 05:38 AM (kw1xk)

31 It's not loading for me on the main page either. Posted by: Andy at February 01, 2014 10:33 AM (vGQV1) Weird...I get the map on the main page but not on the comments page.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 01, 2014 05:38 AM (bCEmE)

32 21 #16 No problem Andy.

Second time in a week this stuff isn't working properly...

Posted by: CAC at February 01, 2014 10:34 AM (NQYmW)

 

My guess is that there are some minor coding differencese between minx.cc and mu.nu so if you embed for one you might not have successfully embedded for the other.

Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 05:39 AM (LI48c)

33 This is a mess they're creating because the bottom line for the national GOP is that they care more about donation money from the Chamber of Commerce than they do about winning seats (with or without conservatism). CoC wants their cheap labor and the GOP wants to give it to them. It's that simple. Posted by: Mandy P. None dare call it treason.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 01, 2014 05:40 AM (+1T7c)

34 Now I have it on the comments page too. Thanks Andy.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 01, 2014 05:40 AM (bCEmE)

35 >> My guess is that there are some minor coding differencese between minx.cc and mu.nu That's a fact.

Posted by: Andy at February 01, 2014 05:40 AM (vGQV1)

36 >> Now I have it on the comments page too. Thanks Andy. No prob.

Posted by: Andy at February 01, 2014 05:41 AM (vGQV1)

37 And I will make a prediction right now. If a bill ever shapes up, there will be a provision in it that exempts businesses from having to provide insurance or pay fines when they hire the newly "legal but not citizens."

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 01, 2014 05:42 AM (qFpRI)

38 23 we are being farmed

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 05:42 AM (KgN8K)

39 That's a fact.

Posted by: Andy at February 01, 2014 10:40 AM (vGQV1)

Yup, it's why I can't italicize, strikethrough or anything else.  Big diff.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:43 AM (x3YFz)

40 What are the odds that Texas will go purple/blue by 2016 (without an amnesty deal)? Isn't every other state moot if that occurs, assuming NY, CA remain dark blue?

It doesn't even have to be Texas.  If Florida stays blue, we're toast.

Posted by: pep at February 01, 2014 05:43 AM (6TB1Z)

41 38 23 we are being farmed

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 10:42 AM (KgN8K)

Indeed.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:43 AM (x3YFz)

42 39 it's why I can't italicize, strikethrough or anything else it's because you don't have the platinum membership

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 05:44 AM (At8tV)

43 And I will make a prediction right now. If a bill ever shapes up, there will be a provision in it that exempts businesses from having to provide insurance or pay fines when they hire the newly "legal but not citizens." Of course. And if ObamaCare applies to them, they'll wind up in MedicAid, and if it doesn't, they'll wind up being the same deadbeats killing the system now. Only we'll have millions more of them.

Posted by: --- at February 01, 2014 05:44 AM (MMC8r)

44 "Fusion Party" is a nice turn of phrase. Good descriptor.

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 05:44 AM (ULH4o)

45 40 I believe that's where we are

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 05:44 AM (KgN8K)

46 This makes sense. It also makes my "Fuck the GOP" strategy make sense. Why support these bastards ? Honestly though - this passes the bullshit sniffer. Howdy Horde.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 05:45 AM (6/+vz)

47 40 If Florida stays blue, we're toast. kiss ohio goodbye too

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 05:45 AM (At8tV)

48 "The bare minimum a party should try to do is win, but I guess that's just a bit too much to ask from the GOP these days." Wait, so what you're saying is shooting for 270 EVs isn't a good goal?

Posted by: The GOP at February 01, 2014 05:46 AM (fT3qO)

49 The situation is reminiscent of the movie The Producers. As long as the Rethuglicans fail, everything is fine and the farce continues but if they succeed, the voter/investors are going to want a return on their investment and the jig is up.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 01, 2014 05:47 AM (E+uky)

50 It's almost like we should just go Third Party. Oh ... but Hell ... that wouldn't be smart and all.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 05:47 AM (6/+vz)

51 it's because you don't have the platinum membership

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 10:44 AM (At8tV)

//looks at "AoS Gold Membership Card"

Crap on a cracker!  I knew it!

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:47 AM (x3YFz)

52 "I like to win. I love watching states change from blue to red. Really, really love that." What about the part where the states turn red but the policies keep getting bluer?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 05:48 AM (fT3qO)

53 For a disturbing glimpse inside a libtard brain, read this. It's short, and tells you all you need to know about the liberal mindset in general, and white liberal guilt in particular: http://tinyurl.com/q6e7s8j

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 01, 2014 05:48 AM (468Wd)

54 So basically the GOP would rather be minority than conservative. Got it.

Posted by: commentorior at February 01, 2014 05:49 AM (dj672)

55 "So if they check agenda items like this off the list now and still get a landslide, great. But if they end up cooling off the base’s enthusiasm and get a narrow, establishment-based Senate majority and keep the House, well, that’s not the end of the world either. In fact, it would mean a more docile caucus in both Houses, which is good for those who run those Houses."

What about scenario number 3? What if the base throws in the towel and stays home. How would they feel to have Pelosi as speaker again?

Posted by: Golfman in NC at February 01, 2014 05:49 AM (gHDMy)

56 "The bare minimum a party should try to do is win, but I guess that's just a bit too much to ask from the GOP these days." The GOP is the bare minimum party. And it will be until the RINO leadership is purged. There needs to be a civil war in the GOP and serious political blood needs to be spilled.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 01, 2014 05:49 AM (60Vyp)

57
Oh ... but Hell ... that wouldn't be smart and all.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 10:47 AM (6/+vz)

Pretty sure it's already happened.  It's just not evident yet.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:49 AM (x3YFz)

58 One thing that keeps gnawing at me is the idea that not passing an amnesty bill will somehow anger "Hispanics."  It's really about "Mexicans", isn't it? Do Puerto Ricans care about this issue? Dominicans? Peruvian-Americans? And another thing--just a personal observation combined with some knowledge of local politics in northern New Jersey,  "Hispanics" don't vote. The major city in my area is overwhelmingly Hispanic population-wise-and I'm not counting illegals, yet African-Americans hold the political cards. Why? Because of apathy. In their culture, politics is for the elite, and the "peasants " are conditioned to go with the flow....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 05:49 AM (Kcqbf)

59

See the thing about big GOP gains is this.... if we win, then the base will expect us to actually do something rather than just twiddle our thumbs and say "We can't do anything, we only have control of 1/2 of 1/3 of the government."

Sincerely,

Your GOP betters

Posted by: Darth Randall at February 01, 2014 05:49 AM (xWgW3)

60 The slightly non insane reason for the GOP to not want a massive victory in 2014 -- 2010. 2010 had a massive victory ... and led to Obama's reelection in 2012. By that logic it would have been better, long term, if Obama had been able to keep ass-raping the county for 2 more years so that people were so angry they tossed him out in 2012. The logic here is that 2010 acted as a release for voter's anger. Plus it gave Obama a Repub House to campaign against. So I can see that some parts of the GOP -- the parts that recognize you can't do shit unless you capture the White House -- might view a big win in 2014 as actually hurting their chances in 2016. And they might be right. In the age of the uber-executive the White House is all that really matters. And we don't see the hidden damage that Obama is doing to the judiciary. Obama gets 8 years to remake he judiciary. Imagine if Hillary gets 4 or 8 more years to do the same. 12-16 years of Leftist control of the judiciary and all those pro-gun rights court victories are gonna be steadily rolled back.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 05:50 AM (ZPrif)

61 Bigger TP gains in the Senate just means bigger "gangs."

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 05:50 AM (fT3qO)

62 You Wingnuts, thinking you can out vote us, LOL. Things will be decided just as we wish, for our benefit. Deadlock in the Congress and our choice of POTUS to suck donations out of shitheads and piss the rest off so much you can't see what is right in front of you. HAHAHA. Suck it, kulaks...

Posted by: Your Owners at February 01, 2014 05:50 AM (vHRtU)

63 49 I have long thought that The Producers was actually an allegory with sweeping reference to Our Times. Walrus Rex, you have really nailed it.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 01, 2014 05:52 AM (+jyzN)

64 The Republicans are chasing a ghost. They have to cater their message to white voters--and I don't mean in a racist way. If they do that, they'll  also peel off enough upwardly-mobile Hispanic strivers to win even more elections

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 05:52 AM (Kcqbf)

65 How would they feel to have Pelosi as speaker again? Perfectly fine. The gravy would continue to flow and they'd have no responsibility to account for. The only ones who care about majority status are the base who hope it will make some difference in the direction of the country. The elites don't.

Posted by: --- at February 01, 2014 05:53 AM (MMC8r)

66 57 Pretty sure it's already happened. It's just not evident yet. Pretty sure you're right. See any small parties out there worth supporting ? I'm open to suggestions. Personally - I'd love to see a Flying Burrito Brothers party. Just not sure the country is ready for a Hot Burrito #1 platform.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 05:53 AM (6/+vz)

67 58 One thing that keeps gnawing at me is the idea that not passing an amnesty bill will somehow anger "Hispanics." It's really about "Mexicans", isn't it? Do Puerto Ricans care about this issue? Dominicans? Peruvian-Americans? And another thing--just a personal observation combined with some knowledge of local politics in northern New Jersey, "Hispanics" don't vote. The major city in my area is overwhelmingly Hispanic population-wise-and I'm not counting illegals, yet African-Americans hold the political cards. Why? Because of apathy. In their culture, politics is for the elite, and the "peasants " are conditioned to go with the flow....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 10:49 AM (Kcqbf)

 

Apparently the puerto ricans do because authorlmendez lost his shit and accused everyone here of being bigots  for not supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 05:53 AM (LI48c)

68 It is rice bowls all the way down. Boehner et. al. assume if they provide payola to illegals, farmers, welfare recipients, etc. that they will be beholden. Stupid fuckers don't realize the credit goes to the dems, who are actually in charge. Look at the reaction of McConnell and Mav to the tea party. They are afraid of loosing their payoffs and influence. Nothing more.

Posted by: Simon Jester at February 01, 2014 05:53 AM (yAewn)

69 64 The Republicans are chasing a ghost....

Another nice turn of phrase.

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 05:54 AM (ULH4o)

70 Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 10:49 AM (Kcqbf)

Plus, the massive shift of Hispanic voters will go from 80% Democrat to 79.5%.

Math is hard for some.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at February 01, 2014 05:54 AM (gHDMy)

71 60--that's a good point.

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 05:54 AM (Kcqbf)

72 If Mitt Romney had gotten 70% of the Hispanic vote,  today we would still  be talking about the nation destroying policies of President Obama.

Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 05:55 AM (LI48c)

73 65 How would they feel to have Pelosi as speaker again?

Perfectly fine. The gravy would continue to flow and they'd have no responsibility to account for.

The only ones who care about majority status are the base who hope it will make some difference in the direction of the country. The elites don't.

Posted by: --- at February 01, 2014 10:53 AM (MMC8r)

Agreed.  Does it really matter if Boner or Pelosi isspeaker?  They're equally worthless.

At least I *know* Pelosi's agenda.  I honestly have more respect for the commiecrats than the republicans.

There's a bible verse somewhere that goes something like "you're neither hot, nor cold, you're lukewarm and I spit you out."

that.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:55 AM (x3YFz)

74 I shouldn't be, and yet I'm surprised the GOP walked right into the democrats trap. The democrats are going to try to run on emotion, it's all they have left. And since Obamacare is a disaster they had to pick a new emotion charged issue to run on. So they chose "breaking up poor families just trying to get ahead in the world." (Yes I know this is a strawman, but so was the Obamacare shit. It's what they do.) And rather than just ignore them and focus bigger issues (Obamcare, the economy, energy.) The GOP walked right and in grabbed this issue out of some perceived notion that people cared. I suspect, most people DON'T care. Sure if you ask them a push polling question ("Should we forcibly deport people and break up families?") they'll give you what is perceived as the socially acceptable response ("Goodness no.") But if you just listened to people going about their day to day, you'd likely get a completely different answer (if you heard anything about immigration at all.) Frankly our only hope is that the republicans don't fuck up (unlikely) and turn this into a cudgel against democrats (send them something we know they'll rail against full of boarder security and a vary narrow resident program) and then say "see, we tried, they won't compromise." But truth is, they can't do that, and even if they could it requires messaging so tight we'd fail at it.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at February 01, 2014 05:55 AM (GaqMa)

75 "... and led to Obama's reelection in 2012" I'd say it was because of a lackluster, incompetent candidate and a sperm-swilling media sucking more furiously than ever before I could buy into that.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 05:55 AM (fT3qO)

76 of course the flip side is what could they do if they won anyway? their owners aren't going to let them be conservative and its all too effed up now to stop the trainwreck anyhow. if they had souls they might tell people to get prepared but politicians always say everything is fine while they loot and run

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 05:56 AM (KgN8K)

77 73 There's a bible verse somewhere that goes something like "you're neither hot, nor cold, you're lukewarm and I spit you out." I thought a stripper I was dating back in the day said that

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 05:56 AM (At8tV)

78 I think Boehner, Ryan, et al DONT want to be in a position to actually pass 'conservative' legislation. believe they actually like the status quo, mainly, to tell the base his favorite BS line. 'We are 1/2 of 1/3 of the government' They pretend they 'really' want to do conservative things but just can't because of Obama and Harry Reid.

Posted by: bobbymike at February 01, 2014 05:56 AM (hY7Vw)

79 The GOP is the bare minimum party. And it will be until the RINO leadership is purged. There needs to be a civil war in the GOP and serious political blood needs to be spilled.

--

Ironically, Mark Levin read a news article, an expose if you will, on Boehner from a Cincy newspaper dated around 1993.  Around the time he was first elected.  He was described as a maverick, bucking "the system" of establishment Republicans.  Kickin' butt and takin' names.  He was even quoted as calling for a "revolution" if the big establishment R's in the party didn't get it together and start acting on behalf of conservatism. 

Posted by: Lady in Black at February 01, 2014 05:57 AM (Oa7B2)

80 I thought a stripper I was dating back in the day said that

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 10:56 AM (At8tV)

//steps back and awaits lightning strike.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 05:58 AM (x3YFz)

81 I see from the map of Michigan that the future also holds that the Great Lakes dry up

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 01, 2014 05:58 AM (vCyy6)

82 72 If Mitt Romney had gotten 70% of the Hispanic vote, today we would still be talking about the nation destroying policies of President Obama. You know ... that Ace fucker is worth reading when he's not crusading for the butseks. I believe the appropriate term, if I understand this shit correctly, regarding the GOP fascination with Amigo Grande is OTHERIZING.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 05:58 AM (6/+vz)

83 70. My point is Republicans win enough elections already without Hispanic support anyway. And they are politically  they apathetic. But we have to stop saying "Hispanic" when we really mean "Illegal Mexicans."

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 05:59 AM (Kcqbf)

84 I respect you and Trende immensely. And I can't figure out why GOP leaders are investing so much in an issue that America hates hearing about. Despite these points,I just think its nuts to think Republicans in Congress would hate the base so much that they would deliberately submarine the party's chances in this upcoming election, especially since the 2016 Senate races might be tough ones for the party.

Posted by: MTF at February 01, 2014 05:59 AM (F58x4)

85 The democrats are going to try to run on emotion, it's all they have left. And since Obamacare is a disaster they had to pick a new emotion charged issue to run on.

--

But the most obvious flaw in that approach is that the country is in such bad shape, that nearly every poll has illegals/amnesty at the bottom of the barrel.  They can talk it up all they want.  People are not interested in it.  In fact, they're quite disinterested.

Posted by: Lady in Black at February 01, 2014 05:59 AM (Oa7B2)

86 But we have to stop saying "Hispanic" when we really mean "Illegal Mexicans."

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 10:59 AM (Kcqbf)

Dead on.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:00 AM (x3YFz)

87 Revelation 3:16.

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 01, 2014 06:01 AM (SUKHu)

88 We don't want a majority that is too big or too small but one that is just right.

Posted by: John Boehner and the Three Bears at February 01, 2014 06:01 AM (E+uky)

89 83 My point is Republicans win enough elections already without Hispanic support anyway. And they are politically they apathetic. But we have to stop saying "Hispanic" when we really mean "Illegal Mexicans." I agree. Pretty fucked up when the GOP needs to bring in "The Others" to justify winning by less. But I honestly think that's where we are.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (6/+vz)

90 I think it's just about the money. The business community is pushing for amnesty and the GOP wants that sweet sweet cash. They don't give a shit about what the voters want.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (zDsvJ)

91 When the country as a whole tends to forget much bigger agenda items within weeks of them hitting the news cycle, The GOP thinks a specific Democrat voting bloc is going to remember that the minority party in the lower chamber gave them amnesty??

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (fT3qO)

92 I think Tangonine's 'take local control' approach is our only choice. Everything from the city council to the NRD board... own them. Have a group. Have a plan. Have a warchest. OWN THEM. It's a slow generational approach. So be it. But land. Be involved. Take control.

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (vHRtU)

93 >>I see from the map of Michigan that the future also holds that the Great Lakes dry up Iced over due to climate change. Year round ice houses.

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (SUKHu)

94 Sorry off topic I posted this on the thread below after everyone left (channeling Willow ) I decided to show my husband just how much I love him. I think I'm his favorite person right now http://tinyurl.com/lqmr8pb http://tinyurl.com/leaavbb http://tinyurl.com/lyqdoh6

Posted by: spypeach at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (10H0T)

95 Tammy Bruce hit essentially the same note in her latest column, that the GOP are throwing the 2014 midterms on purpose. This leads to one pretty much inescapable conclusion: we're being had. Those who are supposed to represent us clearly don't have our best interests in their hearts or minds and they certainly don't care about the country.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (0HooB)

96 today we would still be talking about the nation destroying policies of President Obama. Sadly, you mean the nation-destroying policies of President Obama.

Posted by: t-bird at February 01, 2014 06:03 AM (FcR7P)

97 It was nice, but unnecessary of Sean to mention my little tweet.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 01, 2014 06:04 AM (xSegX)

98 ted by: Lady in Black at February 01, 2014 10:59 AM (Oa7B2) Yes they are, but democrats aren't running on issues, they're running on "how could you elect such a monster to congress." When it comes to the real issues they'll punt with "more free shit."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at February 01, 2014 06:04 AM (GaqMa)

99 i don't think any third party at the moment is worth voting for in the sense of winning or from policy, but I've had it and am going libertarian, YMMV and I'm not going to care overmuch

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 06:04 AM (KgN8K)

100 87 Revelation 3:16.

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 01, 2014 11:01 AM (SUKHu)

Yes.  Thanks!  I bitterly clung and opened up my concordance and found it

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:04 AM (x3YFz)

101 >>Revelation 3:16. Is the verse about lukewarm, I meant to say. I thought it really loudly...

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 01, 2014 06:04 AM (SUKHu)

102 I'm listening to yesterday's podcast. I started listening on my way home from work last night, but I had to pick up a prescription at CVS & my usual commute home is 20 minutes. I restarted from the beginning.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 06:06 AM (z4WKX)

103 79>>"Ironically, Mark Levin read a news article, an expose if you will, on Boehner from a Cincy newspaper dated around 1993. Around the time he was first elected. He was described as a maverick, bucking "the system" of establishment Republicans. Kickin' butt and takin' names. He was even quoted as calling for a "revolution" if the big establishment R's in the party didn't get it together and start acting on behalf of conservatism." Just another stellar example of the need for term limits. I don't buy the idea that the GOP doesn't want to win. I think the GOP leadership is no different than any other politician in that they get to the office and find that money is political life. They're so tone deaf to the ordinary membership because money controls or influences EVERYTHING a politician does. Tea Party candidates are so feared because they will drive off big donors until the TP membership can be drawn over to the 'dark side'.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 01, 2014 06:07 AM (60Vyp)

104 Sounds like the same assinine theory that serial killers want to get caught.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at February 01, 2014 06:07 AM (8xOfO)

105 99 i don't think any third party at the moment is worth voting for in the sense of winning or from policy, but I've had it and am going libertarian, YMMV and I'm not going to care overmuch. Been thinking about this myself. The GOP does not want us. Horde - what about taking over the Libertarian party ? For some of us - it wouldn't be that far a walk.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:07 AM (6/+vz)

106 I think it's just about the money. The business community is pushing for amnesty and the GOP wants that sweet sweet cash. They don't give a shit about what the voters want. No other conclusion really eclipses that. Yeah, I can see the case for the Establishment not wanting things to drift too far right (because the rule of law is only respected by EXTREMELY EXTREME EXTREMISTS), but in the end it always comes back to a politician's self interest.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:08 AM (fT3qO)

107 The bare minimum a party should try to do is win, but I guess that's just a bit too much to ask from the GOP these days.

Don't you listen to the flacks who post here every day? Why, what looks like a buttfumble is really a brilliant 9 dimensional chess strategy that we'd all get if we were on the inside and "knew how things really work"

They'd better hope their Chamber of Commerce sugar daddies have a brilliant get out the vote operation to go along with all that money

Posted by: kbdabear at February 01, 2014 06:08 AM (aTXUx)

108 better get breakfast this baby is going to wake up shortly. later horde

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 06:08 AM (KgN8K)

109

The GOP cares more about lining thier pockets and cushy jobs than they care about the Country.  2012 convinced me of this.  They put up more of a fight with the base than they do with the Dems.  Progressives on both sides will ruin the Country if we can't make them see the light.

Posted by: Infidel at February 01, 2014 06:09 AM (6bvBO)

110 Sadly, you mean the nation-destroying policies of President Obama. Posted by: t-bird ---------------------- A significant distinction, yes.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 06:09 AM (aDwsi)

111 Beutler's an idiot, have we established that, why did the IRS go after the Tea Party, to prevent a repeat of 2010.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 01, 2014 06:09 AM (Jsiw/)

112 54 So basically the GOP would rather be minority than conservative. Got it.

Posted by: commentorior at February 01, 2014 10:49 AM (dj672)



Its actually worse than that.   They would rather drive the conservatives completely out of the Party and remain a minority collecting COC money.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 01, 2014 06:09 AM (T2V/1)

113 105 easier to kick out the jew haters than to kick out wall street, imho

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at February 01, 2014 06:10 AM (KgN8K)

114 You know why Democrats pound away on abortion and gay marriage right? They're wedge issues on which their base is pretty solidly aligned, but the GOP base is not. Therefore, apply the wedge and hammer away, breaking off what you can.


Illegal immigration is the GOP's wedge issue. The base is solidly opposed, and numerous parts of the Democrat coalition favor our side on the issue. If the party leadership was ever at any time interested in victory, they would've been hammering this issue against the donks relentlessly. Instead they turn the wedge on their own base.

Posted by: mugiwara at February 01, 2014 06:10 AM (3a584)

115 CAC, are you planning on doing any analysis on the governor's races? The most recent Quinnipiac poll shows Rick Scott getting his ass handed to him by that orange, back-stabbing moron, Charlie Crist. Let this be a lesson to those who recruit businesses and romance big-money taxpayers from blue states: They bring their politics with them. How the hell do Perry and Scott think the blue states got to where they are?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:10 AM (DmNpO)

116 think of all the money they would save if they fired the rove types and just used common sense and did a few town halls

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 01, 2014 10:36 AM (At8tV)



That they even listen to a fat turd like Rove, the architect of 2006, points out how fucking stupid the party and its big donors are.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 01, 2014 06:11 AM (OIEN+)

117 "When it comes to the real issues they'll punt with "more free shit." Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at February 01, 2014 11:04 AM (GaqMa)" And the Republican response will be to offer "slightly less free shit." How can they lose?!

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:11 AM (fT3qO)

118 Horde - what about taking over the Libertarian party ? For some of us - it wouldn't be that far a walk.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 11:07 AM (6/+vz)

Personally?  I don't need a party.  (ok, well, I *love* parties, but that's not what we're talking about here, but the little hats?  and the cake!  /sigh)

My "party," if you can call it that, is one founded in respectfulness, honesty, courage, honor, and faith.  Hard work, responsibility, dedication, loyalty.

I'm not always good at those things, but I try to be.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:12 AM (x3YFz)

119 Another fact that doesn't get commented on is the fact that there's a whole lot of mixing going on between whites and "Hispanics."  Of course to the Democrats and tone-deaf Republicans that just means the offspring of those unions are even more Hispanic voters to cater to...

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 06:12 AM (Kcqbf)

120 Just a reminder, I do not know what they are doing in other areas, but the American Association of Realtors is pouring money into getting Kay Hagan re-elected in North Carolina. Hagan is a lefty Obama sycophant.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 06:13 AM (aDwsi)

121 " Posted by: ScoggDog?"

The positions the Libertarian website shows are pretty much in accordance with my personal ones. I can live with them. Maybe it's just bad luck on my part but the "libertarians" I run across in real life and the web seem to be "free Dope and Whores!" kooks. YMMV....

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 06:13 AM (ULH4o)

122 Rick Scott was AWOL on Zimmerman and let his prosecutors go full kangaroo. Not surprised at all that the GOP base in FL is unenthusiastic.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 01, 2014 06:13 AM (vCyy6)

123 It's simple. The Dims have all the fun with graft and corruption. And permanent placement at the trough, even when they "leave" gov't. The Republicans like Boehner want them some of that. That's Rove's big revolution. Not that there's a big hue and cry for big gov't among the population. There's a big hue and cry among Rep politicians for a big heaping slathering of govt gravy. Lock conservatives out of the game numerically, and then all elections become which Party can take your earnings and spend them in a "smarter" manner.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 01, 2014 06:13 AM (KBvAm)

124 I love watching states change from blue to red. I really wish our side would stop using the color scheme pushed by the MSM in 2000. The Democrats are obviously the real Red party. It seems like we constantly allow the Left to define the terms of the debate. That's not a slam at you, CAC. I know everybody does it. I just wish conservatives would switch the colors to the way they should be.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 06:13 AM (sdi6R)

125 Actually the Qunnipiac track shows how Cheetah's lead has shrunk, surprising the fishwrap's won't point that out,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 01, 2014 06:13 AM (Jsiw/)

126 111>> JP, I suspect the reason that the GOP hasn't really pushed the IRS issue is that letting the Democrats use the IRS to limit the TP/conservative organizations is symbiotic to the GOP's goals.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 01, 2014 06:14 AM (60Vyp)

127 I think the GOP needs to think about the immigration issue differently. Yes, people are here illegally.... But many of them got here legally or, at least, under strong indications that it was wanted and tolerated (there are many 'illegal' actions, like speeding, that appear tolerated in certain contexts, and where not going with the flow is actually disruptive). But you can never expect family members who have legal status to vote to separate from their families. The family has stronger basis in natural law than the laws of states. The sooner the GOP starts respecting natural law, the better they will do. The fact is that you have people who want to work. The democrats are exploiting their ambiguous status to keep them here, while frustrating their ability to work, and we risk creating a generation of youth that is here and angry but dependent on the state. Latinos actually are conservative in the main.... I spent 15 years of my life working side by side with Mexican immigrants.... I say this not out of a sense of calculation. Just look at the driving issue for this group.... Family is number 1, and they love their families more than the american millennial middleclass. Get with natural law, build proposals that make family life viable for these people. And the electorate will respond. The democrats are bending over backwards trying to re-engineer the human person around the state as the core social structure. If you want to win, build your plan around supporting the human person.

Posted by: bleck at February 01, 2014 06:14 AM (b6Qog)

128 I am not for LIB, partly because I won't survive that. I'm not independently wealthy, nor am I a subsistence farmer. So, yeah, we should stay involved and local politics make sense. That said, my observation is that even in a red area like Provo-Orem Utah, the drift is always toward MOAR GUBMINT. Case in point, although we voted down one tax increase last fall, the community did vote to continue support for "the arts" out of community (taxpayer) coffers. This is a community with two major (30,000+ students each) universities, each of which have really outstanding performing arts programs that put on performances that the community attends throughout the year. Why taxpayers should foot the bill for the arts with those resources already in place within a couple of miles of each other is beyond me. People are lazy. They don't want to make the effort to privately support their universities, museums, etc. They want the government to take money from their neighbors to do it. Pisses me off no end.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 01, 2014 06:14 AM (zDsvJ)

129 Spypeach, none of those links work. At least not for me.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 01, 2014 06:14 AM (GEICT)

130 The most recent Quinnipiac poll shows Rick Scott getting his ass handed to him by that orange, back-stabbing moron, Charlie Crist. I'm doubting that poll a lot. I don't see how Crist can possibly be ahead when Scott has the economic numbers showing him on the right track. Granted, Scott needs to refine his messaging, but he's sure reduced the UE numbers.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (0HooB)

131 And if you're a quarter German, a quarter Irish, a quarter Italian, and a quarter Mexican (if it's the Spanish surname you carry), you are entitled to free shit and a rocket ride to the front of the line....

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (Kcqbf)

132 At some point, the CoC isn't going to send you any more money if you can't produce the votes.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (fT3qO)

133 Boehner should take up hang gliding or extreme rock climbing, for the good of the nation.

Posted by: TexasJew at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (U+u4A)

134 113 105 easier to kick out the jew haters than to kick out wall street, imho My humble opinion agrees with yours. Folks ... I'm ready to do something. I hate people, and I don't like crowds - but I'll put myself out there. It beats the alternatives. Any other ideas ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (6/+vz)

135 the fishwrap's won't point that out,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 01, 2014 11:13 AM (Jsiw/)

heh... funny you say that.  Just cleaned my African Greys' cage.  I save up enough Obama pictures from the Denver post to ensure they're in just the right place for the morning poop.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (x3YFz)

136 Rick Scott was AWOL on Zimmerman and let his prosecutors go full kangaroo. Not surprised at all that the GOP base in FL is unenthusiastic.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 01, 2014 11:13 AM (vCyy6)



Not even AWOL; the stupid fuck should've just let the system in place do it's job.  Instead he caved to the race hustlers and appointed the seriously mentally ill Angela Corey who has gone full metal retard ever since, including threatening the Dersh.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (OIEN+)

137 Actually the Qunnipiac track shows how Cheetah's lead has shrunk, surprising the fishwrap's won't point that out, *** He still holds an 8-point lead.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:15 AM (DmNpO)

138 The one saving grace may be the fact that Crist is so despised that he may, on his own, motivate R'pub/Conservative voters. Folks may not vote FOR Scott, but they will vote AGAINST Crist.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:18 AM (DmNpO)

139 I've long believed the GOP, with few exceptions, does not want to be in power. They only want enough power to be somewhat relevant, and show up on the weekend news shows. They are like the whiny employee always bitching about something, but when given a chance to take a promotion and try to change things they refuse. They are terrified of doing the hard thing, and no longer getting to sit at the cool kids table (even though they get trashed while there). I also believe they agree with the Dems/Left/Progressives about controlling us serfs, they just have a different method which isn't as popular.

Posted by: ExSnipe at February 01, 2014 06:18 AM (LKJt3)

140 tango - I generally simply refer to my philosophy, which is that the well-being of The Republic is my paramount consideration. Not race, not 'gender', not women, not men, not R, not D. In NC, I am called an 'Unaffiliated', which I like. When I wax critical of Obama, and someone bleats 'But, Bush..', I point out that I don't carry the water for anyone, and ask them who *they* are carrying water for.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 06:18 AM (aDwsi)

141 127, you make some sense on the surface, but that bird has flown. For years we were told that the overwhelmingly Catholic Hispanics were anti-abortion, and while there is some truth to it, it still doesn't prevent them from voting for (when they bother voting) for the Pro-Choice Dems. Free-shit trumps pro-life...

Posted by: JoeyBagels at February 01, 2014 06:18 AM (Kcqbf)

142 True, but his lead was much higher, just months ago,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 01, 2014 06:18 AM (Jsiw/)

143 Personally? I don't need a party. Me neither T9 - I get where you're coming from. But I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'd like to do SOMETHING - even if it sucks. No ... I've GOT to do something. And I'd love to know what that should be. I'm open to suggestions.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:19 AM (6/+vz)

144 "I'm doubting that poll a lot. I don't see how Crist can possibly be ahead when Scott has the economic numbers showing him on the right track." Took a PoliSci class last semester and we did a phone poll of FL residents. Fairly solid poll, neutral questions, >1000 respondents. Crist was ahead by 5 IIRC even in that poll. The problem with a lot of these polls is that they're to landlines, not cellphones. The problem for a poller like me is having to listen to raving leftists give their opinion to you and you have to sit there and take it.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:20 AM (fT3qO)

145

Posted by: bleck at February 01, 2014 11:14 AM (b6Qog)



Save the empathy bullshit for until we actually make a concerted effort at controlling the border. I'll listen then.

Posted by: mugiwara at February 01, 2014 06:21 AM (3a584)

146 Boehner should have been shitcanned after the disaster of 2006 The W years fucked the party up beyond recognition

Posted by: TexasJew at February 01, 2014 06:22 AM (U+u4A)

147 My friends, you have nothing to fear from a Democrat controlled Congress and a Hillary presidency

Posted by: John McCain at February 01, 2014 06:23 AM (aTXUx)

148 True, but his lead was much higher, just months ago, *** You are correct.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:23 AM (DmNpO)

149 I really wish our side would stop using the color scheme pushed by the MSM in 2000. - And change the party symbol from the donkey to the hammer and sickle.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 01, 2014 06:23 AM (E+uky)

150 Bob Michel lives!!

Posted by: TexasJew at February 01, 2014 06:24 AM (U+u4A)

151 True, plus the configuration of the sample, makes a difference, do you figure more likely voters rather than just registered.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at February 01, 2014 06:25 AM (Jsiw/)

152

Nice post and great commentary. Nothing to add but my disgust for the GOP.

Posted by: RM at February 01, 2014 06:25 AM (fRppw)

153 Took a PoliSci class last semester and we did a phone poll of FL residents. Fairly solid poll, neutral questions, >1000 respondents. Crist was ahead by 5 IIRC even in that poll. Hmm, I guess that's better than the eight point lead NDH mentioned. It appears that all those Morgan ampersand Morgan TV ads are a good substitute for actually being in orifice.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 01, 2014 06:27 AM (0HooB)

154 Per podcast Huckabee is leading 2016 GOP? I know it's a dem poll, but who are they polling? Has Ann Coulter discovered who secret speaker is at GOP retreat? They had to do nothing & then bring up immigration, now it is a chance. Eight plus months until Election Day, that is too much time to hope that GOP will learn. They don't want to win, do they?

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 06:27 AM (z4WKX)

155 RM?

"Nice post and great commentary. Nothing to add but my disgust for the GOP."

Yeah. I just don't know what to do, besides Go Galt as much as I can.

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 06:28 AM (ULH4o)

156 It was registered voters.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:28 AM (fT3qO)

157 Long term, the Right needs to end Affirmative Action and minority set-asides and govt contracts that incentivize hispanics to identify as a minority. Most hispanics are caucasian. They are white. It's insane that you get be 100% Spaniard, a pure blood descendant of the conquistadors, and get govt benefits because you are an oppressed minority. Hispanics used to identify as white, before Affirmative Action and Diversity Hiring became a thing. But now it is profitable to non ID as white. Anybody applying to college or for a government job or contract is an idiot if they check the "white" box on the application.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 06:29 AM (ZPrif)

158 How about a hammer & sickle emoticon for party identification, say - Barack Obama (☭ -IL)

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 06:29 AM (aDwsi)

159 Here's the link to the House's weekly address http://t.co/8xW6mfSZhA

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:29 AM (DmNpO)

160 Well ... as it turn out, there's actually a Southern Indiana Louisville Metro Libertarian group. I'll risk the possibility of a Contact High. Can't wait to defend Christianity ... as the guy that ain't went to church in over a decade. But fuck this. I've got to do something. I'll start with this.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:30 AM (6/+vz)

161 If the GOP passed some sort of immigration "reform" bill, they wouldn't receive any more votes from Hispanics than not passing one.
UndocumentedHispanics in this country would like legalization (not necessarily citizenship), but they also fear more competition from -more- illegal immigration in an already crowded manual labor market. Their wages are at risk, too.
Yeah, I think McConnel's and Boehner's grips on things would slip considerably with a GOP landslide this year.  The class of 2014 will likely be more conservative and confrontational. A standing caucus threat.

Posted by: mrp at February 01, 2014 06:30 AM (JBggj)

162 Well ... as it turn out, there's actually a Southern Indiana Louisville Metro Libertarian group. ---------------- Hoosier friends?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 06:30 AM (aDwsi)

163 California is now majority hispanic under the age of 5, I think. In the near term future a majority of Cali's population will get "minority" set-asides, affirmative action, and govt jobs.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 06:31 AM (ZPrif)

164 On a side note, the only thing more fun than having moonbats vomit their opinions in your ear when you're polling is making about a hundred calls - give or take fifty - to get a respondent.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:31 AM (fT3qO)

165 Stupid question, but when does the employee mandate kick in? Did TFG push it back so it won't be felt in 2014?

Posted by: RWC at February 01, 2014 06:31 AM (Q6HBD)

166 Same way in countries like Malaysia they have affirmative action for the Malay majority. The Chinese minority still dominate economically -- and are hated for it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 06:31 AM (ZPrif)

167 (☭ -IL) Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 11:29 AM (aDwsi) Must have that alt key code now!!

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:32 AM (fT3qO)

168 I guess the Congressional GOP is happier to compromise to the Left instead of to the Right. This is completely backwards from the 'sacrifice ideology for Party'; this is sacrificing Party for no particular purpose beyond keeping Boehner in his seat. Dump the turkey; go BIG f'r cryin' out loud.

That is the fundamental description of a party that has lost its way.

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I amn't at February 01, 2014 06:33 AM (ab+jQ)

169 Wait, CAC is really ace? He is getting that same..... http://tinyurl.com/58apeg

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:34 AM (0FSuD)

170 162 Hoosier friends? I live across the river from Louisville. We used to have a hell of a morning radio chic named Mandy Connell. She used to host these events called Cocktails and Conversation. I never went - because me and ScoggMiss don't get out enough. But I've had enough. I'm going to go out, get involved, and say my piece. If some don't like it - I don't fucking care.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:36 AM (6/+vz)

171 11 5 That big thingy in the middle isn't loading for me I had that problem on my honeymoon too a little blue pill should fix you right up I don't think a blue pill will help Tami. Mine loaded slowly also, on foxfire.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:36 AM (0FSuD)

172 Terrific. The focus of the GOP address is the four areas which they can support on a bi-partisan basis.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:36 AM (DmNpO)

173 164 On a side note, the only thing more fun than having moonbats vomit their opinions in your ear when you're polling is making about a hundred calls - give or take fifty - to get a respondent. Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 11:31 AM (fT3qO) Yeah, because I got sick of telemarketing calls, I've taken to leaving my answering machine on all the time, even when I'm home.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 06:36 AM (sdi6R)

174 It's not empathy... It's natural law. Preserving the continuity of family life trumps borders. The soviets and maoists killed 10 million trying to correct natural law. The soviet union collapsed.

Posted by: bleck at February 01, 2014 06:38 AM (b6Qog)

175 TexasJew, W screwed up GOP, but they have had years to fix the party. Is it intentional? I do not understand why they would consider any immigration & just thinking about it pisses me off.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 06:38 AM (z4WKX)

176 In NC, I am called an 'Unaffiliated', which I like. When I wax critical of Obama, and someone bleats 'But, Bush..', I point out that I don't carry the water for anyone, and ask them who *they* are carrying water for.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 11:18 AM (aDwsi)

^5

And I think we're not the minority.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:38 AM (x3YFz)

177 167 - Try Unicode character U+262, or just copy and paste

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 06:38 AM (aDwsi)

178 On emigration two points First, as an engineer I have been working more and more with Pakistanis, Indians, and Bangladeshis, who subcontract for huge corporations, Siemens, AECOM, Arinc… The Zucermans’, Buffets’ and ultra billionaire CEOs want these guys on the payroll bad. It is one thing for a drywall hanger being paid $15 an hour vs a naïve born needing $30 to pay the bills, quite another for a $70k a year engineer working for $40k. This wave of immigration is going to come on airliners and be white collar, and the low skill blue collar ones will become a title wave. Second, they will be exempt from ObamaCare. Employers will not have to worry about their health care, a huge incentive to higher them over native born Americans. There is already two classes of workers in America, one that is exempt from the law and the other paying the taxes and towing the line. In Garland, TX get caught without a seat belt on, $200 fine. Have the back of a pick up loaded with illegal workers, nothing. Cops will not even bother, they will just give false names and addresses. That is one very small example. These turn coats in the Republican legislature do this and it will “fundamentally transform” America for good. We the native born will be at the back of the line.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at February 01, 2014 06:38 AM (1Noml)

179 Ace does a good impression of SCOAMF.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 06:39 AM (z4WKX)

180 167 (☭ -IL)


Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 11:29 AM (aDwsi)

Cut. Jib. Newsletter.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:39 AM (x3YFz)

181 U262

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 06:39 AM (sdi6R)

182 Posted by: spypeach at February 01, 2014 11:03 AM (10H0T) The links work now. He should be very happy.

Posted by: ExSnipe at February 01, 2014 06:39 AM (LKJt3)

183 Most hispanics are caucasian. They are white. It's insane that you get be 100% Spaniard, a pure blood descendant of the conquistadors, and get govt benefits because you are an oppressed minority.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 11:29 AM

Most Hispanics in America, especially west of the Mississippi are of the Mexican-Central American derivation. Very few hold unmixed Spaniard genes as those don't tend to be the poor in Mexico. Any day trip across the border and you'll see how race affects your financial standing. The Spaniard whites live on the nice palaces in the hills, the pure Indians are living in the tar paper shacks

Of all the Mexicans I knew in CA, only two had majority Spanish bloodlines, the rest were 2/3 or more Indian


Posted by: kbdabear at February 01, 2014 06:40 AM (aTXUx)

184 Another day at the HQ with other NC morons. WTF?

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:40 AM (0FSuD)

185 Here's the link to the House's weekly address

http://t.co/8xW6mfSZhA Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 11:29 AM



Huh, they failed to mention the Undercutting American Workers by Allowing a Whole New Class of Non-citizens to Live Legally in the Country via Immigration Reform Act currently being bandied about by our betters in the repub party.

Posted by: huerfano at February 01, 2014 06:41 AM (bAGA/)

186 Think about this one. Who is the equivalent of Schumer? And Reid. And why does the Republican side have an establishment caucus, but the dimmies have no such thing?

Posted by: the littl shyning man at February 01, 2014 06:41 AM (tmFlQ)

187 Why youssa hate me so much???

Posted by: Jar Jar GOP at February 01, 2014 06:41 AM (X3GkB)

188 What I would like to see from both parties is a thorough discussion on why Mexico is such a basket case that millions of its best and most ambitious people migrate to the US for a better life.  Yes, Mexico has always been dysfunctional, but the disparity between our two countries has reached the point to where the US taxpayers are essentially subsidizing Mexico's population.  That's unsustainable.  We shouldn't be discussing immigration "reform", we must put the screws on Mexico's government to get its house in order.

Posted by: mrp at February 01, 2014 06:42 AM (JBggj)

189 Oh dear Father in Heaven http://t.co/hycNqygbfo

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:42 AM (DmNpO)

190 I'll risk the possibility of a Contact High. Can't wait to defend Christianity ... as the guy that ain't went to church in over a decade.


But fuck this. I've got to do something. I'll start with this.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 11:30 AM (6/+vz)

me too. 

Churches make my skin itch.  Having said that, my faith has never been stronger.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:42 AM (x3YFz)

191 Huh, they failed to mention the Undercutting American Workers by Allowing a Whole New Class of Non-citizens to Live Legally in the Country via Immigration Reform Act currently being bandied about by our betters in the repub party. *** They sure do loves them some bipartisanship though!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:43 AM (DmNpO)

192 Of all the Mexicans I knew in CA, only two had majority Spanish bloodlines, the rest were 2/3 or more Indian Posted by: kbdabear at February 01, 2014 11:40 AM (aTXUx) Well said. Just got back from Vail. Lots of Mexicans with Spanish blood. You can tell who the nannies are.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:43 AM (0FSuD)

193 Meh, apparently my keyboard isn't configured for it. I'll have to dick around with it later.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:44 AM (fT3qO)

194 @189 I really like @9, "repaired out image abroad!" What fucking image?

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:44 AM (0FSuD)

195 I am really now, and have been building to this for some while, at the point where when I want to see our own Rahm Emmanuel installed for the GOP. Later, I might regret the loss of integrity and the dirty tricks but, emotionally, this is what I crave.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:44 AM (DmNpO)

196 189 Oh dear Father in Heaven

http://t.co/hycNqygbfo

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 11:42 AM (DmNpO)

We use the term "overwhelmingly stupid" somewhat haphazardly, but this actually fits the criteria.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:45 AM (x3YFz)

197 Most Mex-Americans are far from pure-blood Indian. My point is that in 1960s America even someone who was only 25% Spaniard would identify as "white" in America. Today, even someone who is 95% Spaniard identifies as an oppressed minority. Even on our side. Marco Rubio is a fucking Spaniard. His ancestors conquered and colonized Cuba, but now he gets to pretend he's some oppressed minority in America cause he's Cuban. It's insane.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 06:45 AM (ZPrif)

198 obama is laughably telling big corporations to start hiring, this after his socialists/communist appointees continue to do everything to destroy l this country.

Posted by: Buffalobob at February 01, 2014 06:46 AM (RZBmV)

199 We use the term "overwhelmingly stupid" Dumb as a brick somewhat haphazardly, but this actually fits the criteria. Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 11:45 AM (x3YFz) FIFY.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:46 AM (0FSuD)

200 178 There is already two classes of workers in America, one that is exempt from the law and the other paying the taxes and towing the line. In Garland, TX get caught without a seat belt on, $200 fine. Have the back of a pick up loaded with illegal workers, nothing. Cops will not even bother, they will just give false names and addresses. Posted by: jrcobbstr at February 01, 2014 11:38 AM (1Noml) Victor Davis Hanson has described that in California. All the regulations, taxes, fees, building codes, and zoning laws are rigorously enforced against citizens, while illegals live in shantytowns with jury-rigged electrical wiring, without a peep from the authorities. But God help a white citizen who plants a shrub in the wrong place without a permit.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 06:46 AM (sdi6R)

201 Oh dear Father in Heaven I'm missing brain cells after reading just a part of that bullshit list. Good thing I stopped when I did.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 01, 2014 06:46 AM (0HooB)

202

I can't wait for the next "you are all overreacting, they're not actually going to vote on this because blah blah blah."

 

Yeah well you know what?  If they didn't want to vote on it why even try?  They know the country doesn't actually care about it.  You know the base hates it and gets pissed off when you bring it up because everything you claim is seen as the likely cave to the democrats that it really is.  So according to these geniuses they're not going to actually do anything while at the same time disgusting and alienating the base. 

 

So in other words these geniuses are full of shit and/or getting suckered by the GOP leadership, OR  the GOP leadership is the dumbsest most incompetent leadership and have pissed off the base for no reason whatsoever.

Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 06:47 AM (LI48c)

203 Look, we want to win, but we want the right sort of people as candidates.  You Tea Party types with your fiscal responsibility and small government ideals really cramp our style. 

Posted by: The GOP at February 01, 2014 06:47 AM (vBhbc)

204 COST OF GENERIC DRUGS SOARING DUE TO INCREASED DEMAND FROM OBAMACARE obamacare working wonders 360 days a year

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 01, 2014 06:48 AM (t3UFN)

205
Senate: R+0

House: Narrow Dem majority, with a handful of Rs flipping after the election to widen the margin.

Based on:

Amnesty.
Big Tent(tm) Republican candidates and issue positioning.
Democrat dominance in the media-space.
Typical Campaigning 101 failures.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 01, 2014 06:48 AM (kdS6q)

206 Jim Hoft ‏@gatewaypundit CONGRATS TEA PARTY!… Waxman Blames Tea Party & Global Warming Deniers for His Decision to Retire http://shar.es/Q3BWE via @gatewaypundit

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 06:49 AM (ZPrif)

207 obamacare working wonders 360 days a year Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 01, 2014 11:48 AM (t3UFN) And it rests on the other five?

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 01, 2014 06:49 AM (0FSuD)

208 Crotchety Old Jarhead, I'm sure you are right about GOP letting IRS scandal go because they are threatened by the Tea Party. The Speaker owes his title to the Tea Party but is always trying to slap down TP types in Congress. He should embrace them, otherwise he's losing that Mr Speaker title.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 06:49 AM (z4WKX)

209 Oh noes! Both Rand and Cruz were on Hannity, together, on Wednesday and I missed it. *tears up*

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:49 AM (DmNpO)

210 T9? I'm with you on faith and churches. At the time my Emily died she was the Diocene Co-ordinator for Education for Ministry in GA, part of the Cursillo and Kiros movements. She foolishly believed she had hundreds if not thousands of "friends" in the Episcopal Church. Soon as she was dead? I heard hardly a word from all but a few. And I have been completely forgotten since. It's been? Astounding....

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 06:49 AM (ULH4o)

211 Oh dear Father in Heaven http://t.co/hycNqygbfo Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 11:42 AM (DmNpO) If you're a child they call those fairy tales. As an adult I call them lies.

Posted by: ExSnipe at February 01, 2014 06:51 AM (LKJt3)

212 Hey, WTF, February the shortest month, is Black history month? RACIST!

Posted by: Rev Al at February 01, 2014 06:51 AM (0FSuD)

213 "Yeah well you know what? If they didn't want to vote on it why even try? They know the country doesn't actually care about it." Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 11:47 AM (LI48c) Not only that, but at a time when we should be hammering Obamacare (I think that might end up taking care of itself though), Benghazi, the IRS, NSA, and the deficit, the GOP hasn't successfully changed the national discussion to something that helps the left. They haven't taken their eye off the ball, they've walked off the field.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:52 AM (fT3qO)

214 190 - Churches make my skin itch. Having said that, my faith has never been stronger. I get that. Faith just ain't something I've got. I'm empty that way. Being that way has it's pros and cons.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 01, 2014 06:53 AM (6/+vz)

215 hasn't=has

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2014 06:53 AM (fT3qO)

216 Black History Month, where we celebrate Malcolm X, who taught Nation of Islam scripture, including the claim that all white people were created in a lab by an evil black scientists named Yacob 6000 years ago on his island lair where he did horrible breeding experiments to create a race of soulless demon creatures capable only of evil and lies so he could enslave the noble Black Man. Malcolm X actually believed and preached that all White People were, literally, soulless devil creatures. And he's celebrated as an American Hero.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 06:54 AM (ZPrif)

217

Louis CK is a Mexican citizen.  Red haired.  Half-Irish, quarter Hungarian, quarter Mexican of mixed Spanish and indian blood.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_ck

Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 06:56 AM (LI48c)

218 I can't muster the passion to get angry about a political party anymore. Every time I start to get engaged, I just feel silly.

Posted by: DamnDirtyRINO at February 01, 2014 06:56 AM (m0h0I)

219 206 Jim Hoft ‏@gatewaypundit CONGRATS TEA PARTY!… Waxman Blames Tea Party & Global Warming Deniers for His Decision to Retire http://shar.es/Q3BWE via @gatewaypundit Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 11:49 AM (ZPrif) Being in politics is not my cup of tea anymore.

Posted by: Henry Waxman (D, NIMH) at February 01, 2014 06:56 AM (X3GkB)

220 Good thing I stopped when I did.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 01, 2014 11:46 AM (0HooB)

I got to #2 and nearly ragestroked.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 06:58 AM (x3YFz)

221 Third party or bust. Unfortunately, until some elected conservatives start calling for one, it won't happen.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 01, 2014 06:59 AM (5aory)

222 Flatbush Joe, fascinating little-known facts. Growing up in the city, used to occasionally buy "Muhammad Speaks" as it was then known. I can still remember how gobsmacked I felt when I first read their "Creation Myth". Last time I saw one of those guys selling papers, he wouldn't sell me one. Wonder what they're printing these days ?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 01, 2014 06:59 AM (+jyzN)

223 new one

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 01, 2014 06:59 AM (T2V/1)

224 garden thread up

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 06:59 AM (DmNpO)

225 The whole thing, from beginning to end, reads exactly like a Sharks VS Jets dance sequence where two crime parties perform carefully choreographed face-kicks that never connect, where two teams dance through and past each other making menacing feints. In tights, and ghay as all heck.

Posted by: bour3 at February 01, 2014 06:59 AM (5x3+2)

226 Barky's list of "Accomplishments" at that link?
Fairy tales or lies, mostly- take your pick.

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 07:00 AM (ULH4o)

227 One half of one third of the government has control of spending. Why don't they take advantage of that? I know Reid blocks all Senate amendments, etc. Why isn't McAmnesty going on television to discuss that, rather than bitch about republicans?

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 07:01 AM (z4WKX)

228 Late to the thread, but divining the thought process of politicians is simple. They are thinking about how to get reelected. Everything else they do flows from that.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 07:01 AM (1Y+hH)

229 Come to think of it, I guess maybe I am engaged, but in the "Irish Democracy" sense that Insty's been talking about lately.

Posted by: DamnDirtyRINO at February 01, 2014 07:02 AM (m0h0I)

230 222? Yeah, we still have separate black parts of Brunswick. And have guys handing out flyers- but if you are white, they won't give you one.

Posted by: backhoe at February 01, 2014 07:03 AM (ULH4o)

231 Thank you NDH, but I can't think about my garden at this time of year.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 07:03 AM (z4WKX)

232 Oh dear Father in Heaven

http://t.co/hycNqygbfo

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 11:42 AM

He took credit for the Captain Phillips rescue? That fucker had his legal team write up the order which put all the risk on the commander of the rescue vessel and the SEAL team. If it failed, it would have been "they disobeyed my order", but it succeeded (thanks to fantastic marksmanship and balls by the commander) so that Generalissimo Barry could brag how tough he is on piracy

That POS Tom Hanks movie actually suggested that the SEALs were bloodthirsty rambos who were just itching to kill some poor black men

Posted by: kbdabear at February 01, 2014 07:04 AM (aTXUx)

233 Yeah, any chance such a viciously racist religion might encourage violence against the White Devil? After all, they preach that white people are literally not human.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 07:05 AM (ZPrif)

234 Politics stays here guys. This is the politics open thread.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 07:05 AM (DmNpO)

235 Thank you NDH, but I can't think about my garden at this time of year. *** At least go and admire the Hubba.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 01, 2014 07:06 AM (DmNpO)

236 The old adage has been updated, It's now: Shit, SHOVEL, Shower and Shave.

Posted by: seamrog at February 01, 2014 07:07 AM (fuI4v)

237 ah yes, Black History Month... wonder what the odds are that the great Prof Thomas Sowell will get a mention.

Posted by: mallfly at February 01, 2014 07:07 AM (bJm7W)

238 And how do you think a young black man with mental illness problems reacts to be told this "truth" about white people and their secret origins as lab-created demon monsters? Yet Calypso Louis keeps getting praised as a good man who's just trying to help the oppressed black man.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 07:07 AM (ZPrif)

239 233 Yeah, any chance such a viciously racist religion might encourage violence against the White Devil? After all, they preach that white people are literally not human. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 12:05 PM (ZPrif) --Nation of Islam is a bizarre ultra-racialist offshoot of Islam, kind of like the "Christian" churches in South Africa that have promoted white supremacy/apartheid.

Posted by: logprof at February 01, 2014 07:07 AM (X3GkB)

240 Kind of hard to think about gardening with 3 feet of snow covering the garden. Hi everybody, gorgeous day here, bright sun glinting off the new pillowy snow.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 07:09 AM (1Y+hH)

241 The Mormons were forced by public pressure to admit and renounce the racist aspects of their theology. And good for them for doing so.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 07:09 AM (ZPrif)

242 237 ah yes, Black History Month... wonder what the odds are that the great Prof Thomas Sowell will get a mention.

Posted by: mallfly at February 01, 2014 12:07 PM (bJm7W)

Awww shit.  Just when you've recovered from boob month.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:09 AM (x3YFz)

243 NoI is more like a religion a barely literate man would invent knowing only the bare basics about Islam and reading mostly comic books. And really hating white people.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 07:10 AM (ZPrif)

244 Gorgeous day here too, might snow a bit.

Saw some interesting tracks this morning.  Not squirrel... smaller... those little brown critters with the white spots on their sides I'm thinking.  Rare out here given the owls, eagles, hawks and falcons.

Every day is like a raptor air strike out here.  Small and furry = lunch, so it's a bit odd, and cool. 

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:13 AM (x3YFz)

245 At least go and admire the Hubba.

It was worth it. 

Posted by: no good deed at February 01, 2014 07:13 AM (vBhbc)

246 So..., February is a month-long analog of the Festivus 'Airing of Grievances'?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 07:13 AM (aDwsi)

247 We are living in a puppet state. Both parties have been taken over by the socialists and only give the illusion of a constitutional republic. Dark times are ahead.

Posted by: njrob at February 01, 2014 07:14 AM (cyXGF)

248 And really hating white people.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 12:10 PM (ZPrif)

Yeah they should just call it Hate White People Month and get it over with.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:14 AM (x3YFz)

249 I know! Let's hate Washington and Lincoln this month. Well Washington anyhow..., Lincoln...., umm..., not at all.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 07:15 AM (aDwsi)

250 Every day is like a raptor air strike out here. Small and furry = lunch, so it's a bit odd, and cool. Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 12:13 PM (x3YFz) A hawk took a sparrow so close to our patio door last summer that I had to clean up blood spatter. It was pretty dramatic.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 07:16 AM (1Y+hH)

251 Re: The Black History Month comments. It used to be Black History Week. As a senior in high school (74) the black students were allowed to spend the week in the auditorium, doing nothing (not all of them did this). Several of us pasty white cracker guys/gals saw them and decided to skip class. When caught my excuse was "lazy ass white boys day." It didn't fly, and my parents were big time pissed.

Posted by: ExSnipe at February 01, 2014 07:19 AM (LKJt3)

252 249 I know! Let's hate Washington and Lincoln this month. Well Washington anyhow..., Lincoln...., umm..., not at all.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 01, 2014 12:15 PM (aDwsi)

Liberals, especially black liberals... get into a debate with them about conservatism vs. communism/socialism and invoke Frederick Douglas.

They will stare blankly at you and walk away.

Then you dance.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:19 AM (x3YFz)

253 Obama is just the re-incarnation of WEB DuBois. Rich, spoiled, communist. Although Obama actually has much more African ancestry the DuBois ever did.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 07:21 AM (ZPrif)

254 A hawk took a sparrow so close to our patio door last summer that I had to clean up blood spatter. It was pretty dramatic.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 12:16 PM (1Y+hH)

Our neighbors (background:  we all have 40 acre lots out here in the desert of E. Co.) have 4 horses, which are 4 too many for the amount of pasture that doesn't grow out here.

Lots of mice.  So... hay + mice = bad, but they went rocket surgeon and "rescued" like 5 cats (barn cats).

Yeah.  The hawks and eagles enjoy the steady food supply.

Sometimes I just shake my head in wonderment at people.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:23 AM (x3YFz)

255 We need a different history for all peoples!!! Wait, no we don't.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 07:23 AM (1Y+hH)

256 Now we are probably going to hear or read comments by SCOAMF on black history month. I'm Polish, I think we should get a month, along with Irish, British, Danish & all other Americans.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 07:24 AM (z4WKX)

257 Kerry: Israel's security is an illusion, boycott around the corner While still expressing much optimism regarding imminent deal, US secretary of state warns Israel runs great risks, only has momentary security that is bound to change if peace talks with Palestinians flounder So essentially our Horse Faced Sec of State is threatening Israel with isolation unless they bend over and let obama and the arabs fuck them. Nice touch.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 01, 2014 07:28 AM (t3UFN)

258 I'm Polish, I think we should get a month, along with Irish, British, Danish & all other Americans.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 12:24 PM (z4WKX)

I'm a mutt.  I have been around the sun 45 times and still have no idea the mix that I come from.  Some German, some Danish, a bit Italian.  Or something.  Green eyes, brown hair leaning to the light side...just muttery.

Mutt Month!

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:28 AM (x3YFz)

259 What galls me is not that they are squishes, but incompetent squishes. Failure and incompetence should be intolerable, regardless of if they are Tea Party of Squishes.

Posted by: The Political Hat at February 01, 2014 07:29 AM (AymDN)

260 "...if peace talks with Palestinians flounder..." Also, if the sun comes up tomorrow...

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 07:31 AM (1Y+hH)

261 Third part is a mistake. Continue the Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Did you think the Repub moderates were just going to roll over? They only do that for Democrats.

Posted by: dirks strewn at February 01, 2014 07:32 AM (77F0w)

262 Re:Florida going blue. If the Republican's pr ppl continue to be as stupid as they were for the Romney, it will happen. From my POV in the Panhandle, Romney lost because of his lack of immediate response to the Joe Soptic horror story that Stephanie Cutter concocted. People here believed Romney was personally responsible, bc there was no response negating it as crap on their tv channel of choice, usa or spike or hgtv. All the ads dollars for Romney appeared to be wasted on Fox News. It was crazy.

Posted by: NeverEvermore at February 01, 2014 07:33 AM (dd5lM)

263 261 Third part is a mistake. Continue the Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Did you think the Repub moderates were just going to roll over? They only do that for Democrats. Nothing is being taken over. The TEA party must go its own way. The GOP is rotten to the core.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 01, 2014 07:35 AM (JFbSU)

264 Tango, equal opportunity for all of us, especially a mutt as you call yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. That is what made our country great, until all this bull started with affirmative action & the like. We have our first Affirmative Action POTUS!

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 07:36 AM (z4WKX)

265 263...Nothing is being taken over. The TEA party must go its own way. The GOP is rotten to the core. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk Yes, split the vote. Know who else likes that idea? Every Democrat in the country.

Posted by: dirks strewn at February 01, 2014 07:40 AM (77F0w)

266 The problem with today's politicians is illustrated by this post. We keep making the mistake of thinking that their goals are in synch with ours, that they are statesmen/women. Modern politics is a pathway to riches, power and celebrity. For most politicians the desires of the people are a simply seen as a problem to work around. They distribute a little candy from the parade wagon as they go about their business.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 01, 2014 07:40 AM (1Y+hH)

267 #262

That was just one of many areas where Team Romney failed to respond. Worse, they constantly let the opposition shape the conversation and never went on the offensive. Which meant Romney came off as gutless in the eyes of those who should have been supporting him. And so a lot of people who leaned right stayed home instead of voting.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 01, 2014 07:40 AM (bPxS6)

268 Winners go home and fuck the prom queen. The GOP holds their clothes for them.

Posted by: jwpaine @PirateBallerina at February 01, 2014 07:47 AM (2oU2+)

269 Romney didn't even respond when that ignorant bint Hilary Rosen attacked her.  He should've aimed his crosshairs right between her beady eyes and not let up until the JEF had to can her simple ass.  Instead the fucking retard stayed "on message" which worked out really well.  I'd have rather voted for Ann.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 01, 2014 07:50 AM (OIEN+)

270 s/b attacked his wife Ann.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 01, 2014 07:50 AM (OIEN+)

271 In other words, the Republican party bigwigs (I can no longer say GOP, that implies some minimum level of respect), has determined that it is better to be a big fish (U.S. Senator) in a small pond (minority party).

Posted by: SFGoth at February 01, 2014 07:56 AM (UHVnU)

272 Yes, split the vote. Know who else likes that idea? Every Democrat in the country.

Posted by: dirks strewn at February 01, 2014 12:40 PM (77F0w)

See.  Here's the thing that people who make that argument miss:

It's not about winning or losing.  It's about principles.  Integrity.

I'd rather lose an election than lose myself.

Ya dig?

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 07:56 AM (x3YFz)

273 Fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 01, 2014 08:02 AM (JQuNB)

274 Is it possible that the entrenched GOP doesn't want too big a majority as it would make some of them superfluous? With a 52 seat majority, we can't toss out the RINOs without risking losing the chamber.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at February 01, 2014 08:05 AM (FpHdx)

275 Or maybe they're just a bunch of progressives in sheep's clothing. Let's not over complicate this.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at February 01, 2014 08:08 AM (4/o9U)

276 A third party would lose at first and it's efforts would cost the GOP some wins, but as time went by folks would see they have a party to which they can rally. A party that does not compromise with the Democrats. A party that can grow in strength as Democrat and Republican actions drive more people to look for a party that stands for real change and change in the right direction. The GOP can not be fixed or be taken over, but it can be replaced with something much better.

Posted by: eman at February 01, 2014 08:09 AM (AO9UG)

277 Probably not. Mostly likely, any party that replaced the Repubs would behave just like the Repubs. Once they got the right-wing vote locked up they would veer left to the center. At the people who ran this mythical new party would be drawn from the same wealthy Ruling Class that lives in deep blue big cities and would be culturally distinct from and contemptuous of the avg voter on the right.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 08:14 AM (ZPrif)

278 I just read,or rather glanced at Drudge. According to that Rubio leads 2016 with R bigwigs! In other words The Establishment jerks. I can see Marco fighting against The Clinton Machine (sarc??)

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 08:14 AM (z4WKX)

279 275 Or maybe they're just a bunch of progressives in sheep's clothing. Let's not over complicate this.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at February 01, 2014 01:08 PM (4/o9U)

Unsure of your reference here.  Do you mean those of us that are in the fk the GOP camp or the GOP itself?

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 08:18 AM (x3YFz)

280 I’m going to take a nap. This thread is depressing. I love you guys but I’m just pissed off at the republicans. They had the advantage but are throwing it away.

Posted by: Carol at February 01, 2014 08:19 AM (z4WKX)

281 It's comical how worked up some fringe people in the conservative movement get about the (declining) population of illegals in this country.  Out of one side of their mouths, those who oppose any immigration reform bill say that nobody cares about immigration, it's 16th on the list of concerns, why are they doing this?  Out of the other side, they scream how voters will abandon the GOP if anything passes on this issue that nobody cares about.

Which is it, geniuses?  Do ordinary voters care, or do they not care? 

Every major Republican candidate for president in 2012 favored some form of immigration reform, including Romney before he tried to ham-handedly demagogue Rick Perry about it.  Business wants changes because they are tired of having immigration enforcement outsourced to them.  Border-state legislators want changes so the Feds can start to pick up the tab for state efforts. 

This is something that will happen in some form sooner rather than later.  And average voters will absolutely not give a shit about it.  And no fringe conservative anti-Mexican type will really stay home in November over it, despite what they say today.  They just won't.  It's bluster and bullshit to to appear purer-than-thou on message boards.

People will be voting on Obamacare and the economy in November.  Everything else is bullshit.  Which is why this will get done in the next few months and why nobody will give a shit 5 months later. 

Except Mark Krikorian and the freaks anonymously hating on Mexicans in message board forums. 


Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 08:23 AM (YhH+L)

282 Unsure of your reference here. Do you mean those of us that are in the fk the GOP camp or the GOP itself?--------
Tang, I was answering the drawn out theory in the post that the GOP is "scared" of big gains and thus are tackling amnesty now. They're tackling amnesty now because we are being lead by two factions of the same party - Commie and Commie Lite.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at February 01, 2014 08:26 AM (4/o9U)

283 you tell em trumpetboy, anybody opposed to Amnesty is just anti-Mexican! And fringe! Or is that they wear clothes with fringe? Probably both!

Posted by: Derp Brigade at February 01, 2014 08:32 AM (ZPrif)

284 And he's celebrated as an American Hero. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 11:54 AM (ZPrif) So you are saying that killing whitey is wrong? http://tinyurl.com/bo9cok6

Posted by: Rev Al at February 01, 2014 08:38 AM (0FSuD)

285 Yeah, flatbush joe, I'm talking about you. 

Any more conspiracy theories about the city folk comin' to git ya out there in "real Amurica" you'd like to float?

Better watch out, Jose down at the Home Depot waiting for a gig tiling roof knows where you live.  He and all his little brown, soccer-loving friends will be comin' to take all your white wimmins from you!

Idiot.


Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 08:38 AM (YhH+L)

286 You got it, trumpetboy! You tell em! Freaks! Fringes! Freaks with Fringes! Nobody can have a legit opposition to Amnesty. It's only because they hate Mexicans! And brown people! Hey, fucktard, I am a "brown people". Dipshit. Must hate myself, right? Oh noes!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 08:43 AM (ZPrif)

287 Except Mark Krikorian and the freaks anonymously hating on Mexicans in message board forums. Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 01:23 PM (YhH+L) "hatin on"? What are you, a 14 year old Youtube commenter? That's the lingo of Bielieber fangirls It's Saturday, you should be outside playing

Posted by: kbdabear at February 01, 2014 08:48 AM (aTXUx)

288 178  Good point. Hope it's ok to borrow.

Posted by: gracepmc at February 01, 2014 08:48 AM (rznx3)

289

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 01:38 PM (YhH+L)

Ok.  Slow down there, speedy.

Keep up that tone and you're going to get mortared.  Seen this movie, have the T-shirt, ticket stub is in my wallet.

You have valid points, and a debate worth having; however pissing everyone off is not the best first move.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 08:50 AM (x3YFz)

290 Hey trumpetdaddy: blow me.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 01, 2014 08:51 AM (JQuNB)

291 Mom gave me Cheerios while all you Kaboom eating haters are hating on a cute little bi-racial girl You hate on my girl Miley because she twerks like black girls do Now excuse me, mom wants me to pay the Mexican $20 for mowing the lawn so I don't have to

Posted by: rustytrombonedaddy at February 01, 2014 08:53 AM (aTXUx)

292 See?  I was late on the warning.

Fuck it.  Correct 3 degrees N and fire for effect.  HE.

9 line to follow.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 08:54 AM (x3YFz)

293 Fringe freaks that first foist foul freakish fringes on fine folks.

Posted by: Derp Brigade at February 01, 2014 08:55 AM (ZPrif)

294 293 Fringe freaks that first foist foul freakish fringes on fine folks.

Posted by: Derp Brigade at February 01, 2014 01:55 PM (ZPrif)

The letter "g" called and said it's being discriminated against.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 08:56 AM (x3YFz)

295 Don't count chickens before they hatch. I guess the GOP never learned that saying.

Posted by: sexypig at February 01, 2014 08:56 AM (dZQh7)

296 Re: 285 trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 01:38 PM (YhH+L) Have you ever lived next door to any illegal immigrants? Unfortunately, my mother-in-law lived in a blue-collar neighborhood that became a Latino favorite. She owned a duplex and after her 30-year tenant moved (she was a single teacher and after a break-in was afraid to stay), moved to assisted care. Within the next few weeks: everything that could be stolen was, including the front mailboxes, the iron gate, and the electric meters. They changed their oil in her driveway and left old mattresses and condoms in the yard. After that experience, my take on amnesty is not a positive. And, the reason why I know it was the illegal group living next door that did this, was because the few people that were left from the original African-American, American Indian and whites in this blue-collar neighborhood told me.

Posted by: NeverEvermore at February 01, 2014 08:57 AM (dd5lM)

297 295 Don't count chickens before they hatch.


Posted by: sexypig at February 01, 2014 01:56 PM (dZQh7)

Thank you for saying "count."

Posted by: The Chicken at February 01, 2014 08:58 AM (x3YFz)

298 Fair enough, tangonine.  But some people seem blissfully unaware of how fringe they are and how irrelevant their concerns are to the concerns of the larger voting populace.

It of course never occurs to the anti-immigration reform crowd that the R leadership see the polling data, too.  They have access to better polling, in fact.  And if immigration reform is a big, fat "meh" to the vast majority of voters in the publicly-available polling, you can bet it is the same in the private polling.

A very small minority of people care about this one way or the other.  And a lot of the "anti-" folks are either anti-Mexican OR completely obtuse about how anti-Mexican they look, if they aren't actually anti-Mexican.  Either way, the result is the same.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:00 AM (YhH+L)

299 @296.

So, logically, all Hispanics are bums, right? 

And no native-born white people ever abuse other people's property or make a mess in their yard.  Riiiiight.

Thanks for making my point.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:03 AM (YhH+L)

300 In fact, it would mean a more docile caucus in both Houses, which is good for those who run those Houses. So basically, the Republican establishment is more concerned with having compliant, marginally-dominated Republican legislative bodies than in carrying out a conservative agenda. Got it. Nice to know where they stand, and it certainly isn't for what they claim to stand for.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at February 01, 2014 09:03 AM (itCai)

301
And no native-born white people ever abuse other people's property or make a mess in their yard. Riiiiight.

Thanks for making my point.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 02:03 PM (YhH+L)

There was just a little few second where I thought you were capable of coherent thought.

heh... silly me.

Posted by: The Chicken at February 01, 2014 09:04 AM (x3YFz)

302 So what rustytrombone is saying is that Americans who don't live in neighborhoods or towns with a high number of illegals don't want to sound racist to pollsters I notice that those in tony neighborhoods who benefit from illegal labor want the cheap labor as long as they don't come to live in those neighborhoods and the cops shoot the troublemakers. Being a lefty is so easy isn't it.. Just call everyone else a racist from the inside of your white bread exclusive community

Posted by: kbdabear at February 01, 2014 09:06 AM (aTXUx)

303 Which is it?  Is this something ordinary voters care about?  Or is it not?

The data say normal people don't care.  That's the way the R leadership is betting.

What's your data that say otherwise?  Some anonymous fringe conservatives on a message board with anecdotes about some relative and his/her problems with some neighbors in an apartment?

What's your actual data?   

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:10 AM (YhH+L)

304 So, logically, all Hispanics are bums, right? No, that's YOUR logic, because you're stupid that way. Only a moron like you would equate illegal immigrants as "all Hispanics".

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at February 01, 2014 09:10 AM (itCai)

305 299trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 02:03 PM (YhH+L) I don't have to provide "native-born" a benefit, er, make that "benefitS". That is what "amnesty" is and what you wish to furnish.

Posted by: NeverEvermore at February 01, 2014 09:10 AM (dd5lM)

306 Argument? I don' need no steenkin' argument, raysis H8ters!

Posted by: Strumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:12 AM (JQuNB)

307 trololololol

Posted by: Derp Brigade at February 01, 2014 09:13 AM (ZPrif)

308 A very small minority of people care about this one way or the other. And a lot of the "anti-" folks are either anti-Mexican OR completely obtuse about how anti-Mexican they look, if they aren't actually anti-Mexican. Either way, the result is the same.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 02:00 PM (YhH+L)

I'll give you the following.  One of my colleague professors is an engineer from Mexico.  He and I have had this discussion (he's pro-Obama, btw).

He's had to jump through so many flaming hoops just to be here for a year on a work visa.  Those that argue that the immigration system is just fine "ENFORCE THE LAWS"  haven't seen it from down in the weeds.  So I'll grant you that. 

But the thing is, most of the problems he's had are due to government ineptitude.  You know where he's gotten the most help?  From conservatives.

The guy has full medical coverage from Mexico.  Pays for everything in the US. 

However, guess what?  He still is required to purchase Obamacare (which he'll never use), or his visa will be cancelled.

Unless you're American indian, you're an immigrant, or spawn of same.  I know this.  And it's why we're the greatest nation on earth.

Yet, there's a problem with just letting every drug mule race across the border.

I'm not anti-mexican.  Hell, when I lived in San Antonio, the Mexican Mafia kept me safe for 5 years.

Like 95% of the people here we don't judge by stupid shit like skin color, we accept or reject you based on behavior.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:14 AM (x3YFz)

309 And of course it never occurs to the same anti-immigration folks that their rhetorical "heros" who are vocally opposing this proposal are all in seats or states that are all safely right of average, and can thus "talk tough on illegals" with no repercussions to their own electoral fortunes, whatsoever.  IOW, it's a cheap stunt for them to be anti-reform.

These politicians can all make a big show of how "tough" they are, rake in a few extra contributions from the fringe, safely vote "no," all the while confident that it'll pass anyway with mainstream legislators votes and Dem votes. 

And don't think Boehner and his people don't know that, too.  They get their bill, they get money from the business community, they get some (marginal) street cred from the Hispanic community, and they get to shore up the base for their "true conservative" colleagues in safe seats. 

And the anti-immigrant folks get nothing for all their big talk on the message boards.  Except played. 

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:16 AM (YhH+L)

310 I'm not anti-Mexican, but I am against irrevocably changing American culture for the worse. The philosophy of limited government and individual liberty came from the English-speaking culture. Latin American culture is not noted for those traits, to say the least. Now, Mexican immigrants could eventually assimilate and become fully American in outlook, as immigrants from other nations have done, *if* those principles were still being taught in our schools and revered in the popular culture. Unfortunately, they are not. Legalizing tens of millions of Latin American peasants will have the effect of Latinizing American culture and politics. The process is already under way. Our government and corporate betters see this as a feature, not a bug.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 09:17 AM (sdi6R)

311 And don't think that Krikorian and all the institutional anti-immigrant types like him don't love them some immigration reform, too.  For the same reason as the safe-seat politicians.  If there wasn't an immigration bill to rail against there wouldn't be a fundraising opportunity for him and his groups, either.  Who gives a damn what Mark Krikorian thinks if there isn't an immigration bill to talk about.

But please, feel free to keep giving these people money and oxygen for "the cause."  It is such a productive use of time. 

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:21 AM (YhH+L)

312 And the anti-immigrant folks get nothing for all their big talk on the message boards. Except played.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 02:16 PM (YhH+L)

What is it about you that prevents you from having a civil conversation without shitting your pants?

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:22 AM (x3YFz)

313 308 Like 95% of the people here we don't judge by stupid shit like skin color, we accept or reject you based on behavior. tangonine at February 01, 2014 02:14 PM (x3YFz) Which is my problem w amnesty for illegal immigrants: once there is a belief that no matter what you do up to a certain point, there are no negative consequences, there is never a reason to conduct yourself within the limits of the law that constrain the majority of those here legally.

Posted by: NeverEvermore at February 01, 2014 09:23 AM (dd5lM)

314 What is it about you that prevents you from having a civil conversation without shitting your pants? I'm a master of cocksuckerage, is what I am.

Posted by: Strumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:23 AM (JQuNB)

315 #303

You contradict yourself. If ordinary voters don't care, why would anyone in office be compelled to do anything on the issue? Somebody must care and express that interest either with money or votes. Otherwise there would be no talk of legislation.

Perhaps because I'm in southern California and have seen the effects close up but I can definitely say I don't know of anyone here who doesn't think this is a major issue.

And no, it isn't about anti-Mexican. I'd strenuously object to ten million Ukrainians, my ethnic homeland, flooding into the country unfiltered. The problems resulting would be just the same.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 01, 2014 09:26 AM (bPxS6)

316 Yeah.  He's just an asshole.  trumpetfucker is hereby persona non grata.

Troll pro-tip:  at least try to be amusing.  Make a joke, if you're capable. 

just dead weight. 

Boatswain!  He's overboard next storm.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:27 AM (x3YFz)

317

298 Fair enough, tangonine. But some people seem blissfully unaware of how fringe they are and how irrelevant their concerns are to the concerns of the larger voting populace.

 

Good explanation of the House Republicans right there.  Since they are the ones that think immigration reform is the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER! while most indications are its about 16 out of 20 things.

 

You are a great example of the idiots I mentioned above.

Posted by: buzzion at February 01, 2014 09:28 AM (LI48c)

318 In the MC-130 world, we'd just drop the ramp after reaching altitude and you'd never be heard from again.

Once we land, everyone just look innocent and shrug.

Shit happens.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:31 AM (x3YFz)

319 @315.  Ordinary voters don't care.

Business cares a lot.  Hispanic groups care a lot.  Legislators in districts with high immigrant populations care a lot.

Ordinary voters don't care.  And will not base their votes in November on immigration.

If someone has some data that prove otherwise, present it.

Or, conversely, keep talking about how immigrants from Latin American countries represent a threat to "American culture," however you define that.  Because nobody ever said that exact same thing every time any group of new immigrants ever came to this country.  Like my Croatian ancestors who came through Ellis Island in 1905.

Or keep talking about me if you like with cutesy little sock puppets.  Because that is relevant to anything. 

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:32 AM (YhH+L)

320 If only the country had an ignore user script for DC.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at February 01, 2014 09:34 AM (DL2i+)

321 Every post he makes reminds me of all those *cough* "training accidents."

//fondness

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:34 AM (x3YFz)

322 Trust me, trumpet would be anti-amnesty if the illegals were mostly Protestants or Orthodox. Not a fan of the Protestants are you trump?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 09:36 AM (ZPrif)

323 Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 02:32 PM (YhH+L)

Since I can't push you out the back of a C-130.  Yet.  Let me make this point:  Illegal.

See?  simple.  One.  Word.

Want them to come here legally?  Well, first you have to unfuck the drug trade, there, flash. 

Call me when you're done and I'll give you further instructions.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:38 AM (x3YFz)

324 Oh yes, flatbush joe, I'm just itching to reprise the St. Batholomew's Day massacre on some Huguenots right here in 21st century America..

Really?  That's the best you can do?  Anti-Catholicism?  Well, at least it's consistent for you.

*eyeroll*

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:39 AM (YhH+L)

325 He's just not going to be happy until he's pissed everyone off, is he?

As trolls go, I'll say he gets a 6.  Mostly for persistence. Horrible style.

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:41 AM (x3YFz)

326 I'm Catholic dipshit. But I know where you are coming from. I can read you. You support massive illegal immigration from Latin America, because they are Catholic. And only because they are Catholic. You don't care if they are brown or poor or anything. But you really, really care that they are Catholic. You don't like that America is predominantly Protestant do you? Not a fan of the Baptists, are you? You think they aren't *real* Christians, right? I'm Catholic. I know people that talk just like you. I've seen it before. They play the race card, too. But they don't really care about that. If Mexicans were mostly Baptist they'd be out there building the wall themselves.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 09:43 AM (ZPrif)

327 Moving on to the gardening thread, there, trumpet.  Enjoy your misery.

I don't even muster the energy to detest you.  Just some pity.

eh.. fk it.  not even that. 

Posted by: tangonine at February 01, 2014 09:44 AM (x3YFz)

328 Let me guess, you are all for immigration from Vietnam. But no so keen about Koreans.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 09:45 AM (ZPrif)

329 324 trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 02:39 PM (YhH+L) Don't understand why anyone would want to increase UE for working poor (African-American, especially), when we know that is exactly why Big Business is pushing the issue. The hypocrisy of advocating an increase in the minimum wage, while promoting a surge of employees for those same low-level jobs is infuriating. If there were not a large number of employers who "ignore" the legality of their employees, the minimum wage would have probably crept up on its own because of supply and demand.

Posted by: NeverEvermore at February 01, 2014 09:46 AM (dd5lM)

330 I'm pro-Catholic, and pro-brown people, and anti-Amnesty. I'm also pro-Baptist and pro-Lutheran. And pro-Greek Orthodox. And pro-white people and pro-black people and pro-asian. And pro-Hindu and pro-Buddhist. And pro-Judaism. Yet I'm still anti-Amnesty. Crazy how that works. It's called having principles.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 01, 2014 09:48 AM (ZPrif)

331 Stop it with your malicious sockpuppetry, raysis meanies!

Posted by: Strumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:49 AM (JQuNB)

332 @326.

A. Immigration from Latin American isn't "massive," by any measurement whatsoever.  Even assuming that there are 12 million illegals in the country right now, that's out of a population of over 300 million people.  Less than 4%, and not all of those estimated illegals are from Latin America. 

B. If you don't want to sound like a 19th century Know Nothing, don't talk like one.

C. I have yet to hear anyone present any data to undermine the R leadership's strategy on this.  Prove it will make a difference in November with some actual numbers.

Everything else is just people getting off on focusing on the messenger and not the message.


Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 09:49 AM (YhH+L)

333 #319

Don't try to put words in my mouth. I didn't say a thing about 'threats to American culture.' I grew up in Southern California. Mexican culture was all around me from the day I was born. That isn't the issue and trying to invoke it is just running away from the argument after pointing in a random direction and shouting "Squirrel!'


Posted by: Epobirs at February 01, 2014 09:53 AM (bPxS6)

334 And what the hell is an 'ordinary voter?' So far, the only definition I can discern is people who don't care abut an issue Trumpet doesn't like people caring about.

Ethnic focus groups care about upping immigration for their particular constituency? Shock. Surprise. Does that mean we should be making national policy at the behest of a single ethnic interest? Especially when there is nothing to be gained for the party in exchange for the favor and considerable detriment for same?

We did this amnesty thing before. It was a crashing failure that encouraged more illegal entries rather the opposite as its supporters claimed would be the result. Why it was believed by anyone that rewarding lawbreaking would result in less lawbreaking remains a mystery.

Posted by: Epobirs at February 01, 2014 10:05 AM (bPxS6)

335 Maybe the Bilderbergers did it!

Posted by: Adjoran at February 01, 2014 10:08 AM (473jB)

336 If your Croatian ancestors came here to be Croatians living in America, and sailed into Duluth to avoid Ellis Island, and demanded the right to go home and come back, and refused to pay taxes, or get licenses, and Franz Joseph's consul gave them documents to prove their identity so they could skip the whole US documents thing, then, I'd call for their deportation too.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 01, 2014 10:09 AM (qo7YS)

337 Trumpetdaddy 5% of the population of Mexico is illegally living in a foriegn country. That's not nothing.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 01, 2014 10:15 AM (qo7YS)

338 And I wait in vain for anyone to show any data that even hint that an immigration reform bill will be a major issue in the fall.

I would suggest a remedial history class for some folks here.  Do a little research on why our immigration system exists the way it does, and the history of these laws.  The same arguments being made on this forum have been made since the Irish first started coming to America in the 19th century.  The exact same arguments.

Some things never change. 

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 10:18 AM (YhH+L)

339 Wow, an Amnesty troll. It's 2007 again.

Posted by: eman at February 01, 2014 10:22 AM (AO9UG)

340 338 The same arguments being made on this forum have been made since the Irish first started coming to America in the 19th century. The exact same arguments. Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 03:18 PM (YhH+L) I addressed that in #310: Now, Mexican immigrants could eventually assimilate and become fully American in outlook, as immigrants from other nations have done, *if* those principles were still being taught in our schools and revered in the popular culture. Unfortunately, they are not. When your Croatian ancestors arrived in 1905, they were encouraged to lose their old culture, learn English, and become Americans first and foremost. America was portrayed as a "melting pot", where people from all over the world could live together in relative harmony. More than any other nation in history, America was a nation based on ideas, rather than race, religion, or ethnicity. Those ideas included concepts such as individual liberty, limited Constitutional government, the rule of law, and the free enterprise system. Today all that has been turned on its head. Our modern educational system is hostile to all of those things, and immigrants are pointedly encouraged to cling to their native languages and traditions, and *not* assimilate. Nothing good can come from this.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 10:32 AM (sdi6R)

341 500 buses each transporting 50 people twice a day for 300 days can move fifteen million people out of the USA.

Posted by: eman at February 01, 2014 10:34 AM (AO9UG)

342 Crappy candidates is God's way of saying don't vote. He has a way that doesn't involve a person betraying their principles. Sure its slow. But if your not having fun then you are not doing what God intended. Some might call it worshipping an idol. Eat well, sleep well, and joke with your friends. Smoke-them if you got-them.

Posted by: Huggy at February 01, 2014 10:44 AM (4WPfa)

343 @340  That sounds like an argument for educational reform not an argument for maintaining an outdated immigration system.

It is also only partly true.  My grandparents were both born and raised in neighborhoods that consisted of Croatian and Balkan immigrants who spoke Croatian at home and in the businesses in the neighborhood.  Yes, the NYC public schools taught in English as they should have and the immigrant kids had to learn it or fall behind.  But in every other aspect of their daily existence, these folks lived in a transplanted Croatia in New York City.

Over time, the community fully assimilated.  But that "over time" was like 65 years.  My great-grandparents died in the early 70s with tolerable proficiency in English but still speaking mostly Croatian and functionally living as Croatians in America.  Proud of being naturalized American citizens but also proud of where they came from.

And hating the shit out of Serbs.

Expecting recent immigrants to immediately, or within a relatively short time, give up their native country's culture and identity when we didn't expect that of previous immigrants is unrealistic.  I would also suggest that American culture is an amalgam of these other cultures. 

That's why the largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich is in Cincinnati and salsa is the top condiment in America.  Because of this amalgamation.

Some people on the fringe have always disliked this aspect of American exceptionalism.  It is no different today than in previous generations.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 10:48 AM (YhH+L)

344 272 Yes, split the vote. Know who else likes that idea? Every Democrat in the country. Posted by: dirks strewn at February 01, 2014 12:40 PM (77F0w) See. Here's the thing that people who make that argument miss: It's not about winning or losing. It's about principles. Integrity. I'd rather lose an election than lose myself. Ya dig? Posted by: tangonine I do dig indeed. But where's the integrity in electing many more Democrats for the next two decades? I doubt the country could take another 2 years of Democrats holding two houses and the Presidency (now that there's no filibuster) borrowing as much as lenders would allow (probably not much more) making all federal circuit, appeal and Supreme court judges and throwing the borders wide open for anyone who agrees to vote for the Democrats. Now imagine 20 years of that. Keeping Democrats to a minimum has a certain rough justice even if there not enough of an integrity high for you. I think it would take a lot more than voting for a moderate Republican who legitimately won a primary against a Conservative for you to lose yourself.

Posted by: dirks strewn at February 01, 2014 10:52 AM (77F0w)

345 Meh, Axeltroll is axeltrolling. "Fringe" must be the word that polled well. What do you not understand, crumpetpussy, about this is a country of laws? People here in the country illegal are committing a felony. People using fake ID are committing a crime. People stealing SS#s are committing a felony. People voting illegally are committing a crime. The list goes on. Why do we want to reward criminality? In a recession/depression why do we want to allow illegals in the country to depress wages. Please try to make a constructive argument without your poll-tested "fringe" woobie.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 01, 2014 10:57 AM (0cMkb)

346 @345 Two things happen when laws are openly flouted.  The state cracks down with all the usual and predictable unintended consequences.  Or, the state changes the laws.

The laws are going to be changed because nobody outside of yes, a fringe, wants the state to "crack down" on illegals.  And the polling data show that "cracking down" is not important to most people because most people don't care abut illegals right now.  Which is why the R leadership feels no qualms whatsoever about pursuing this.

Show me some data that refute that.  Go on.  Try.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 11:02 AM (YhH+L)

347 I don't find anything to disagree with in your #343, trumpetdaddy. My beef is not with the Mexicans, but with the American authorities and the educational system. It is different this time, but that is not the fault of the Mexican immigrants. It is fundamentally dishonest to allow millions of people to pour across the border for years, then legalize them as a fait accompli.[/] And as I said, our educational system and popular media culture is now hostile to traditional American values. Also, 100 years ago there was no welfare state. Today I understand that the U.S. government runs ads in Mexico touting government benefits and how to apply for them. I believe that the progressive ruling elites in both government and business want to import millions of Third World peasants who are docile and know their place. They will be much easier to deal with than us pesky Anglos who insist on such antiquated notions as "rights".

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 11:14 AM (sdi6R)

348 Oops.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 11:15 AM (sdi6R)

349 Pro tip: If you're going to forget to close a tag, do it on a dead thread.

Posted by: rickl at February 01, 2014 11:16 AM (sdi6R)

350 Ricli - Barrel.

Posted by: tag watcher council at February 01, 2014 11:21 AM (u82oZ)

351 Your argument, crumpetpussy, is that amnesty is low polling as a concern. That doesn't mean that people want amnesty. What it means is, right now amnesty as something that they wish to happen or actually, do something beyond the current status quo, is a very low priority. Your argument is a straw man. The "fringe" is the very small group of people like Zuckerberg, Soros, Boehner, who are pushing to do something to actively hurt the rule of law and more importantly hurt American workers and their children. Again explain to me the logic in actively hurting wage earners during a recession/depression by depressing wages and increasing competition against College graduates who have done the right thing and gone to good colleges and studied hard as well as 40-50 yr old programmer etc who can't currently find work. You have yet to address these issues. Your rather silly formulation: Two things happen when laws are openly flouted. The state cracks down with all the usual and predictable unintended consequences. Or, the state changes the laws. Leaves out one thing - "Or, the state changes the laws" with all the usual and predictable unintended consequences. Except in this case, the consequences are to encourage more illegality. Since, the rule of law doesn't matter to you. I'll take that as a point you fail to make sense of and an argument you've lost. Now explain the benefits of hurting American workers.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 01, 2014 11:46 AM (0cMkb)

352 So. The GOP leadership is 'afraid' of a big win, so immigration reform means they win small and manageable.

Hog-frickin-wash. Why then the Gang of 8 secret negotiations? Why sacrifice Rubio like a virgin to a volcano?

Why bother trying to mollify conservatives at all? If the Fear-Of-A-Big-Win strategy is the thing, they would have pushed reform through last year.

Nope. The real GOP strategy? Capitulation. Capitulation to the inevitably inevitable Democrat progressive hegemony...

GOP leaders negotiated exit strategies with Chuck Schumer and the business cronies (sounds like the world's scariest rock band...) giving them grossly over-paid, under-worked positions in exchange for bending over RINOs and reaming a hole through conservatives through which the bill can be passed.

Then, when the Republican party is crushed under the jackboots of tens of millions of fiat votes manufactured by immigration reform... they are sitting on fat bank accounts, sipping pina coladas in the Bahamas, and don't care about the dying remnants of the American middle-class. Or something like that.


Posted by: Dr. Deano at February 01, 2014 12:06 PM (NXgTz)

353 Really over thinking this whole thing!
It's about what it really is always ALL about!
THE MONEY!
The karl Rove wing of the eGOP has their hands out before an election to the BIG DONORS. The Chamber of commies, the big farm industry and other crony capitalists who want low wage and thus low info foreign born Lyin Rat voters!
The Incumbants want the cash and the grass roots have slammed their wallets shut so they are going to the most recent cash cow Crony Crapitalists!

Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at February 01, 2014 12:48 PM (uUXp6)

354 The flaw is predicting that massive amounts of recently legalized Hispanics are going to enshrine the Democrats for generations is that most Hispanics already don't vote at higher levels than other ethnic groups don't vote.  the idea that they are going to all-of-a-sudden start doing something that, as a group, they already don't do is without any evidentiary foundation.

Secondly, there are a bunch of folks on this board who actively advocate for disobeying Obamacare as a way of undermining it.  Passive resistance.  "Irish Democracy," as Glenn Reynolds calls it.  I support that tactic, BTW.  What the hell is the difference with immigration law?  If the current immigration law is so nonsensical and unenforceable that people openly flout it, what is to be done?  "Crack down?"  That's what Obamacare supporters could just as easily say, too, about people undermining that law.

We saw the southern states 50 years ago "crack down" on open flouting of illogical laws regarding black and white people and public accommodation.  How well did that enforcing of the "rule of law" work out?

Or Prohibition.  How well did "enforcing the rule of law" work there?  Created organized crime as we know it today, is what it did.  Same thing happening with the "War on Drugs" today.

People will always seek freedom and the best situations for themselves and their family.  Laws that impede that seeking will be undermined and evaded.  Thus has it always been.  We can be adults and deal with that reality or we can stick our heads in the sand.

Our immigration system was created for the express purpose of keeping out southern and eastern European Catholics and the same nativist, racist, and prejudicial motivations that animated the immigration regime in the 19th century have been transferred to our policy today vis a vis Latin American immigrants.

I'm sorry if some people don't like being reminded of that history and purpose but it is what it is.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at February 01, 2014 01:38 PM (YhH+L)

355 " But where's the integrity in electing many more Democrats for the next two decades? I doubt the country could take another 2 years of Democrats holding two houses and the Presidency (now that there's no filibuster) borrowing as much as lenders would allow (probably not much more) making all federal circuit, appeal and Supreme court judges and throwing the borders wide open for anyone who agrees to vote for the Democrats. " You say that as if the House Republican majority wasn't for all of it.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 01, 2014 01:57 PM (3W2mk)

356 "We can be adults and deal with that reality or we can stick our heads in the sand." I'll stay over with the little boys who successfully regulated immigration and our borders for 150 years. Oh, and the Mafia LOST, sucker.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 01, 2014 02:08 PM (3W2mk)

357

"Of all the Mexicans I knew in CA, only two had majority Spanish bloodlines, the rest were 2/3 or more Indian"

 

 The race divide is even more pronounced in Cuba. At the top of the heap are those descended from Spanish immigrants (like the Castos, for instance. Desi Arnez and Carmen Diaz are  other  examples) at the bottom, the blacks. It would be interesting to know how many of Cuba's present-day elite are of European descent (of course, while many fled, I suspect the ones who joined Castro still have elite status today).

Posted by: Donna V. at February 01, 2014 04:52 PM (R3gO3)

358

rickl wrote: And as I said, our educational system and popular media culture is now hostile to traditional American values. "

 

 I completely agree with rickl. I have nothing against Mexicans. (Certainly nothing against their food!)  Most of the ones I have met I have liked. And I'm the granddaughter of Ellis Island immigrants from Easter Europe and know about the intense bigotry directed against the immigrants from Eastern and southern Europe in the first decades of the 20th century. I have no objection to Mexican neighborhoods any more than I have an objection to Chinatowns or Little Italies.

 

The Mexican immigration is different in two ways - first for the reasons rickl states, and secondly, because the situation with Mexico is different. People who came here from Europe (or China or Japan) had to cross an ocean in the days before commerical flights. They could stay or go (and some went back) but they could not jump back and forth, keeping a foot in the Old Country. Yes, they might have spoken their native tongues in their neighborhoods, but there was no "Press Two for Croatian" option for them, no bilingual education in public schools. Being stuck in a little bubble of a neighbhorhood is unsatisfying for the second generation - but in this case, they can retain ties to their Old Country - particularly if they live in border states and can cross back and forth easily - that wasn't an option for earlier immigrants.

Posted by: Donna V. at February 01, 2014 05:12 PM (R3gO3)

359 I have heard that to be a liberal you must have a mental disorder. This probably angers the Progressive when he is told this by the conservative. But then again--look what you state out loud. You state an illegal should be catered to. So you back illegal behavior. That in itself is nothing but anti reason. The law is the law at our border. You can't let a group of invaders just come in. So therefore the Progressive mental status should be held to question. The Progressive goes even further though. The Leftist believes not only should the illegal be allowed to break the law but we should subsidize him. Healthcare and welfare benefits at the expense of the American citizen. Anti reason again. Based an altruistic notion of global Marxism. Based on feel good theory of how for some reason in their mind we are responsible for another country's citizens' welfare. We are not. You stating that we are--that the American should give money in taxes to them is delusional. A mental disorder. And the Progressive's defense. More delusion. A conservative states illegal behavior should not be allowed. And the Progressive labels him a racist. Race does nothing to do with it but you can't show rational thinking to a lunatic can you? Then the Progressive gives the tired "where did your ancestors come from" rant. Well, ours came legally. That would be the difference. Ours learned English and worked for their pay. That would be the difference. But this is reason. You can't make the deluded see reason. If they continue this line of policy it is going to come to a head in this country. My fiction was based on history. And Mr Progressive--the same irrational thought of altruism was there too---in Russia 1917. Cuba. Your line of thinking fails every time. It has never worked once. That would again take reason to understand this. The Progressive is incapable of it. And I would be careful Mr Progressive. Because we aren't the Russians. We know freedom. And I don't think you're the type that is very good at physical action when you finally go too far. Charles Hurst. Author of THE SECOND FALL. An offbeat story of Armageddon. And creator of THE RUNNINGWOLF EZINE

Posted by: charleshurstauthor at February 01, 2014 06:34 PM (XLyS6)

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