May 30, 2016

The Last Full Measure of Devotion
— Dave in Texas

lincoln_memorial449 (448x295).jpg

These words, spoken on a field at Gettysburg, to honor the fallen.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
November 19, 1863

These words are inscribed on one wall at the Lincoln Memorial. On the other wall, his Second inaugural address. "and for his widow and his orphan" are powerful words in that. But the words I hear more are "to bind up the nations's wounds"

I did a little battle monument/memorial storify thing here if you would like to see it. I haven't seen them all but I would like to.

Remember the fallen. They gave all they had to give and deserve our respect and remembrance.

May they rest in honored glory.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at 06:32 AM | Comments (302)
Post contains 399 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Lincoln would not be elected today. If he gave that same speech, not as an inaugural but just as a speech, he'd be referred to as a crazy Christian Radical. For real.

Posted by: RobM1981 at May 30, 2016 07:13 AM (VVBN7)

2 I've no admiration for Lincoln... I hold him personally responsible for causing the greatest wave of totally avoidable violence in this nation's history, and for which we are no better off!

Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki at May 30, 2016 07:20 AM (kP16F)

3 150 years later, another president from Illinois dances on the graves of those The first president from Illinois sought to enslave. Lincoln earned not a single southern electoral vote, yet he became president. Were the Donald or Hillary to do the same, would we say it was a fair election?

Posted by: Unfatmatt at May 30, 2016 07:23 AM (8lQkB)

4 On Memorial Day in 1945, General Lucian Truscott was asked to give a speech at the Sicily-Rome American Cemetery in Italy, where many of the fallen from the Italian campaign were buried. When he took to the podium, he turned his back to the audience and fanfare and simply began to speak to the crosses of the fallen. Famed World War 2 cartoonist Bill Mauldin was present; he offered the following observations, summing up the character and abilities of General Lucian Truscott. Maudin wrote: "He apologized to the dead men for their presence here. He said everybody tells leaders it is not their fault that men get killed in war, but that every leader knows in his heart this is not altogether true. "He said he hoped anybody here through any mistake of his would forgive him, but he realized that was asking a hell of a lot under the circumstances . . . he would not speak about the glorious dead because he didn't see much glory in getting killed if you were in your late teens or early twenties. "He promised that if in the future he ran into anybody, especially old men, who thought death in battle was glorious, he would straighten them out. He said he thought that was the least he could do."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 30, 2016 07:24 AM (p4UlV)

5 Oh this thread is going ugly fast. Crossbows?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 07:24 AM (1xUj/)

6 I've no admiration for Lincoln... I hold him personally responsible for causing the greatest wave of totally avoidable violence in this nation's history, and for which we are no better off! Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki


You can go straight to Hell, fuckhead.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at May 30, 2016 07:24 AM (RFeQD)

7 Time to go outside.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2016 07:24 AM (Dj0WE)

8 1 Lincoln would not be elected today.

If he gave that same speech, not as an inaugural but just as a speech, he'd be referred to as a crazy Christian Radical.

For real.

Posted by: RobM1981 at May 30, 2016 12:13 PM (VVBN7)



If I remember those times from my extensive study of events leading up to that war he had a pretty tough time being elected then too. It took the Democrat Party splitting into two Parties and four people running to give him the election with 39% of the vote.


And he really wasn't that popular of a President then.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 07:25 AM (vvmPQ)

9 5 Oh this thread is going ugly fast. Crossbows? Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 12:24 PM (1xUj/) Longbows at dawn, sir!

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 07:26 AM (sdi6R)

10 Lincoln earned not a single southern electoral vote, yet he became president. Were the Donald or Hillary to do the same, would we say it was a fair election?

Posted by: Unfatmatt at May 30, 2016 12:23 PM (8lQkB)


Well, that depends on if it was Trump or Hillary who won.

Posted by: your betters in the MSM at May 30, 2016 07:27 AM (UHKOQ)

11 Hugs everybody there is another point to this post y'all and it ain't politics

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 30, 2016 07:28 AM (Lz/sK)

12 Presdnt Obama will makes sure it is a fare election......

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at May 30, 2016 07:28 AM (Fbj4h)

13 Today is also Shame on Google Day.

Posted by: eman at May 30, 2016 07:30 AM (MQEz6)

14 13 Today is also Shame on Google Day. Posted by: eman at May 30, 2016 12:30 PM (MQEz6)/i] Oh geez, what have they done this time?

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 07:32 AM (sdi6R)

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 07:32 AM (sdi6R)

16 I asked this in the previous thread, but is Folds of Honor a worthy cause to which to donate? It doesn't waste money or anything?

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at May 30, 2016 07:33 AM (FQKBL)

17 There are a lot of things to mull on and be grateful for, and people to give our undying commitment, solemn respectful memory to today. Politics in general, and trolls in particular ain't one of them.

Posted by: CrotcehtyOldJarhead at May 30, 2016 07:34 AM (NWP1/)

18 If he gave that same speech, not as an inaugural but just as a speech, he'd be referred to as a crazy Christian Radical. - FDR's D Day prayer: My fellow Americans: Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far. And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer: Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity. Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith. They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest-until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war. For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and good will among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home. Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom. And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas -- whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them--help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice. Many people have urged that I call the Nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts. Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces. And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be. And, O Lord, give us Faith. Give us Faith in Thee; Faith in our sons; Faith in each other; Faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose. With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogancies. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister Nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil. Thy will be done, Almighty God. Amen.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 07:35 AM (Nwg0u)

19 God rest the souls of all who gave all. Rest in peace and we remember you this day.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 30, 2016 07:36 AM (ej1L0)

20 JJ I did not know that about Gen Truscott Very cool.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 30, 2016 07:37 AM (r65B3)

21 @8 Absolutely correct. Lincoln never had anything close to a majority, now matter how you slice it. And, let's face it, his assassination was absolutely personal more than political. A great many Southerners hated him until the day they died - well into the 20th century. I'm not talking about people who like or dislike him today, because that's different. Admiring a historical figure is a bit tricky, given the lens that you are viewing him or her through. But to have lived with a person, and to develop an opinion based on your own experiences and interactions? That's as relevant to history as the Character is. Lincoln wasn't popular, for sure. And his views, today, and even his words today, would not be electable. Nice addition, Vic.

Posted by: RobM1981 at May 30, 2016 07:38 AM (VVBN7)

22 God rest the souls of all who gave all. Amen! Now all of You out of here! Go get some sunshine and enjoy what God has given Us.... Sorry bout the folks in the rain.....

Posted by: donna at May 30, 2016 07:38 AM (O2RFr)

23 may the dead rest well and the living strive to be worthy

Posted by: eman at May 30, 2016 07:39 AM (MQEz6)

24 Lord knows I have no love for FDR, but the man could give a speech.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 07:41 AM (sdi6R)

25 Barack Obama's prayer: Dear Lord, Let my drives be straight and true and may all my putts sink. Because is they don't, you're in a heap of trouble. When Lynch gets through with you, you'll wish you'd never created us. Amen

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 07:42 AM (Nwg0u)

26 Amen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 07:42 AM (Ozsfq)

27 24 Lord knows I have no love for FDR, but the man could give a speech.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 12:41 PM (sdi6R)


He did more harm to this country than any other President in history; . . . until now. 



And just think, 50 or so years from now Obama will be just as revered as FDR.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 07:43 AM (vvmPQ)

28 And just think, 50 or so years from now Obama will be just as revered as FDR. - I doubt that. You can build a seawall against truth but it won't last forever.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 07:45 AM (Nwg0u)

29 28  I doubt that. You can build a seawall against truth but it won't last forever.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 12:45 PM (Nwg0u)


It MFM and the education establishment will preach his saintliness forever until he becomes a saint. That is the same thing that happened to FDR and is still happening.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 07:48 AM (vvmPQ)

30 20 JJ I did not know that about Gen Truscott Very cool. Posted by: Diogenes at May 30, 2016 12:37 PM (r65B3) Unfortunately, there's no written transcript (to my knowledge) of his speech that day. Amazingly, I think it was impromptu. I remember watching Bill Mauldin talk about it, maybe on an episode of "The World at War" and he broke down sobbing, barely able to get the words out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 30, 2016 07:49 AM (p4UlV)

31 God bless the memories of the fallen. May we strive every day to earn what they have given us.

Posted by: Andy at May 30, 2016 07:52 AM (CrGZr)

32 It MFM and the education establishment will preach his saintliness forever until he becomes a saint. That is the same thing that happened to FDR and is still happening. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 12:48 PM (vvmPQ) What ever you think of FDR, don't compare him to this Commie in the White House now. FDR fought WW2 to win it and authorized the building the Nuclear Bomb.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 07:52 AM (Ozsfq)

33 If re-fighting the Civil War isn't enough, I heard a guy the other day claim the Revolutionary War was a crock & we're still covertly a colony of Great Britain.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 07:56 AM (7qAYi)

34 >>> Today is also Shame on Google Day Bing came through.

Posted by: fluffy at May 30, 2016 07:57 AM (2hcmo)

35 If re-fighting the Civil War isn't enough, I heard a guy the other day claim the Revolutionary War was a crock & we're still covertly a colony of Great Britain. Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 12:56 PM (7qAYi) Then can we vote to get the hell out of the EU?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 07:58 AM (Ozsfq)

36 In Gettysburg, Northerners and Southerners both died. They both had the same color blood., Each side had people on it people who were brave, true and fought for a greater good. Can we just on this day not fight the Civil Wat AGAIN?!! and just recall the men who died?!!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 07:58 AM (rmw+9)

37 Today is also Shame on Google Day Bing came through. Posted by: fluffy at May 30, 2016 12:57 PM (2hcmo) Google has a little flag with a gold ribbon on it, but yeah pretty pitiful

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 07:59 AM (Ozsfq)

38 32 Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 12:52 PM (Ozsfq) Agreed, to an extent. Aside from the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theorists, there is also much controversy about his abandoning of the Army in the Philippines, as well as not lifting a finger to save the Jews. But when it came down to leveling Germany and Japan, he was all in 100%.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 30, 2016 07:59 AM (p4UlV)

39 In Gettysburg, Northerners and Southerners both died. They both had the same color blood., Each side had people on it people who were brave, true and fought for a greater good. Can we just on this day not fight the Civil Wat AGAIN?!! and just recall the men who died?!! Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 12:58 PM (rmw+9) Who's refighting the Civil War?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:00 AM (Ozsfq)

40 Bing is to be applauded. Photo of the Tomb of the Unknowns.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 30, 2016 08:00 AM (p4UlV)

41 32  What ever you think of FDR, don't compare him to this Commie in the White House now. FDR fought WW2 to win it and authorized the building the Nuclear Bomb.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 12:52 PM (Ozsfq)


FDR was our first commie President.  His administration was riddled with commie spies and he practically gave the US our current liberal courts and socialist form of government.  That is just a few of his many "good deeds".


We won WWII because of our industry and a few damn fine generals in spite of FDR.



Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:01 AM (vvmPQ)

42 Former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a public service by triggering a debate over surveillance techniques, but still must pay a penalty for illegally leaking a trove of classified intelligence documents. Fuck him, Fuck Fredo, and Fuck

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:02 AM (Ozsfq)

43 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 01:01 PM (vvmPQ) I'm gonna go out on a limb here Vic and bet you don't like FRD? LMAO

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:03 AM (Ozsfq)

44 42 Former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a public service by triggering a debate over surveillance techniques, but still must pay a penalty for illegally leaking a trove of classified intelligence documents.

Fuck him, Fuck Fredo, and Fuck

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 01:02 PM (Ozsfq)


That is to be expected from someone who should be in jail with Snowden.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:03 AM (vvmPQ)

45 Attu Island is home to the only memorial in the United States to memorialize the enemies' dead. The Japanese government erected a memorial for all the fallen, Americans & Japanese, of the Aleutian islands campaign.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 08:03 AM (7qAYi)

46 Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 01:00 PM (Ozsfq) I really think people who must go on and on every single time Lincoln's his name is mentioned about how much Lincoln was loathed (Yes? So?) are not posting in the spirit of the Gettysburg address, which was a great speech. I dislike the redoing of the Civil Way anytime. I particularly dislike it on Memorial Day

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:03 AM (rmw+9)

47 43  I'm gonna go out on a limb here Vic and bet you don't like FRD? LMAO

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 01:03 PM (Ozsfq)


I blame him for about 80% of the problems we have now and 100% for the start of all of them.  LBJ gets the other 20%.



There is a reason Obama says FDR is his favorite President.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:04 AM (vvmPQ)

48 I really think people who must go on and on every single time Lincoln's his name is mentioned about how much Lincoln was loathed (Yes? So?) are not posting in the spirit of the Gettysburg address, which was a great speech. I dislike the redoing of the Civil Way anytime. I particularly dislike it on Memorial Day Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 01:03 PM (rmw+9) Not disagreeing with you, but who did that?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:05 AM (Ozsfq)

49 osted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 01:05 PM (Ozsfq) I really don't want to go back and read the entire thread nor name names. Sorry. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:06 AM (rmw+9)

50 48 - Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 01:05 PM (Ozsfq) Up top, first few comments

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 08:09 AM (7qAYi)

51 Obama will not become a Saint, First of all, he's not RC. :^) and if one is using it in the sense St Paul uses as a disciple of Jesus...well, Il;d say no to that too unless he has a conversion experience. Will he be enshrined by the MSM?-possibly, but they've done it all along and you and I Vic will possibly be meeting the Lord before the fervor reaches to the level it has with FDR since his death.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:11 AM (rmw+9)

52 FDR was our first commie President. History has been too kind to me.

Posted by: Woodrow Wilson at May 30, 2016 08:12 AM (Doh4+)

53 Up top, first few comments Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 01:09 PM (7qAYi) OK sigh yeah i see it .

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:12 AM (Ozsfq)

54 The field of 64 has been announced for the NCAA D1 Baseball Tournament. Three of "my" teams made it, that pretty much never happens. Good luck to BC, Wake Forest and Xavier!

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 30, 2016 08:13 AM (2cS/G)

55 51 Obama will not become a Saint, First of all, he's not RC. :^) and if one is using it in the sense St Paul uses as a disciple of Jesus...well, Il;d say no to that too unless he has a conversion experience.

Will he be enshrined by the MSM?-possibly, but they've done it all along and you and I Vic will possibly be meeting the Lord before the fervor reaches to the level it has with FDR since his death.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 01:11 PM (rmw+9)


I was not referring to him as a saint as in the canonization process.  A "media saint" if you will.  And FDR was certainly no religious saint either but the MFM and 90% of the historians really do bow down and worship him.  It has only been recently that people like Amity Schlaes have come forward and shown what a total failure he really was.  

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:14 AM (vvmPQ)

56 Hey all, I hope you are all enjoying Memorial Day. We watched the concert last night on PBS, and it was really beautiful I appreciate Gary Sinise and Joe Montegne hosting it every year. I'm fairly sure they take flak for supporting "icky" troops, but they obviously love it, and don't care what Hollywood thinks. Bless them, and those who sacrificed for us.

Posted by: Moki at May 30, 2016 08:15 AM (ezHMO)

57 52  History has been too kind to me.

Posted by: Woodrow Wilson at May 30, 2016 01:12 PM (Doh4+)


He was more of a Facist but he did not nationalize any industries and he did not launch any great socialist programs. (Mainly because congress had not been converted)

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:16 AM (vvmPQ)

58 I was not referring to him as a saint as in the canonization process. I understand that. I was being boringly literal. ;^) If you can't do anything to change whatever the MSM will say and do aabout Obama why waste energy over being particularly annoyed by it? :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:16 AM (rmw+9)

59 53 Up top, first few comments
Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 01:09 PM (7qAYi)


OK sigh yeah i see it .

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 01:12 PM (Ozsfq)


maybe one, the rest are not.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:17 AM (vvmPQ)

60 Kinda neat to me anyway, in 1967-8 I served for a time under both Gen, Truscott's (5th Bn. 60th Inf, 9th I.D.) and Gen. Patton's (11th Armd. Cav. Regt) sons, both of them were chips off their dads' blocks. Truscott Sr. was  one of the finest commanders in the Italian Campaign.

Posted by: JHW at May 30, 2016 08:17 AM (kn0BL)

61 >>>>>his abandoning of the Army in the Philippines<<<<<<

The Philippines were indefensible. There was nothing anybody could do to save or rescue the army there.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 08:17 AM (tEDMc)

62 Maybe robots will do all the fighting 20 years from now. Most of the fucking, too.

Posted by: eman at May 30, 2016 08:19 AM (MQEz6)

63 61 >>>>>his abandoning of the Army in the Philippines<<<<<<

The Philippines were indefensible. There was nothing anybody could do to save or rescue the army there.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 01:17 PM (tEDMc)


I have read a lot of military authors who would argue against that.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:21 AM (vvmPQ)

64 Fenelon, have you found your purse?

Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki at May 30, 2016 08:21 AM (kP16F)

65 Eric Allison, LT, USN Ken "Slim" Pickens, LT(jg), USNR Both with HC 11 attached to the USS Camden, AOE-2. Killed on the way home from WestPac, August 16, 1991 when a blade detached from the front rotor assembly of their CH-46 Sea Knight, nicknamed "Sideflare 62". We were 4 days from reaching San Diego where we would detach the airdales en route to the Camden's home port in Bremerton, WA. Ken was fresh out of the Naval Academy and flight school and Eric was almost home from 3 straight 6 month deployments because of Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Eric's wife surprised him by showing up in Guam when we pulled in for a couple days on August 13. RIP.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 30, 2016 08:22 AM (hUPKb)

66
May everyone have an honorable Memorial Day.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 30, 2016 08:23 AM (ODxAs)

67 Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki at May 30, 2016 01:21 PM (kP16F) Gosh; It's thoughtful of you to remember that. No; I have not. I think it was taken; I'm not sure where that happened

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:23 AM (rmw+9)

68 Perhaps someday the Human Race will become a better thing and we won't need Memorial Day anymore.

Posted by: eman at May 30, 2016 08:26 AM (MQEz6)

69 From Bookbub today for fans of History of the Middle Ages


http://amzn.to/1sHfzyU

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:26 AM (vvmPQ)

70 68 Perhaps someday the Human Race will become a better thing and we won't need Memorial Day anymore. Posted by: eman at May 30, 2016 01:26 PM (MQEz6) Only the dead have seen the end of war. And even if human nature were to change, we should still remember the fallen from the wars of the past.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 08:28 AM (7qAYi)

71 Sgt. Ronald Stewart was stationed at Hellinikon Air Base in Athens. He was killed by a remote controlled bomb that exploded when he opened the door to his house on March 12, 1991. November 17 was responsible. I worked with the Greek government and the Air Force to send him home, as the Embassy rep. Really tired of coddling terrorists, and bringing them here to join the welfare rolls.

Posted by: Moki at May 30, 2016 08:28 AM (ezHMO)

72 off, sock

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 08:32 AM (UHKOQ)

73 Then can we vote to get the hell out of the EU? Posted by: Nevergiveup USEXIT

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2016 08:32 AM (k4M/B)

74 Fenelon, if you're still here: Check out the video link I just posted in the EMT. I think you would like it. I put it there because it doesn't actually have anything to do with Memorial Day.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 08:33 AM (sdi6R)

75 #2 Kiss my ass.

Posted by: what me worry? at May 30, 2016 08:34 AM (dZGNV)

76 Lord bless the fallen today and inspire the living to strive to be worthy of their sacrifice.

Posted by: PaleRider at May 30, 2016 08:35 AM (wYRTH)

77 Speaking of the EU, I am really hoping for a BREXIT. Anything to throw a stick in the spokes of the tricycle that is Central Planning.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 30, 2016 08:35 AM (2cS/G)

78 I blame him (FDR-Fox2!) for about 80% of the problems we have now and 100% for the start of all of them. LBJ gets the other 20%. I think Wilson gets 15% as the set-up man, and TR gets 2-5% for the initial Progressive leanings. The rest is all FDR and LBJ, as you said.

Posted by: Fox2! at May 30, 2016 08:36 AM (brIR5)

79 Google has a little flag with a gold ribbon on it, but yeah pretty pitiful Hey, it's not like its Cesar Chavez' birthday or anything.

Posted by: Princess Leia Kristol at May 30, 2016 08:37 AM (v9gSJ)

80 Speaking of the EU, I am really hoping for a BREXIT. Anything to throw a stick in the spokes of the tricycle that is Central Planning. Posted by: Lincolntf at May 30, 2016 01:35 PM (2cS/G) Yup

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:37 AM (Ozsfq)

81 When is the Brexit Vote-July?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:38 AM (rmw+9)

82 I think it's June 23rd or 25th, something like that. A few more weeks.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 30, 2016 08:38 AM (2cS/G)

83 I dunno. More glory in dying fighting to defend those you love than to die in slavery.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 30, 2016 08:38 AM (iQIUe)

84 Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 01:33 PM (sdi6R) O.K. Thanks

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:38 AM (rmw+9)

85 We have a strange yellow ball in the sky right now.  What is that?

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:39 AM (vvmPQ)

86 Re: Brian Williams's idiotic comment that we dropped nuclear bombs on Japan "in anger" - why the hell else would we drop them? As a practical joke?

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 08:40 AM (7qAYi)

87 >>>>I have read a lot of military authors who would argue against that.<<<<<

Unless they have some sort of plan where the IJN would provide the Pacific Fleet with forward operating bases and fuel in late '41/early '42, they would be wrong.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 08:40 AM (tEDMc)

88 Yeah, Brexit is late June. Check Guido for details. And, of course, trust the Daily Mail to go there (no, not Brexit related, except insofar as membership in the EU can be equated to flaming pants): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3616504/

Posted by: JEM at May 30, 2016 08:40 AM (o+SC1)

89 We have a strange yellow ball in the sky right now. What is that? Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 01:39 PM (vvmPQ) The End is near. Pray

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 08:41 AM (Ozsfq)

90 Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 01:33 PM (sdi6R) I will show it to my son too. He is currently on a Bob Dylan kick. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:42 AM (rmw+9)

91 87  Unless they have some sort of plan where the IJN would provide the Pacific Fleet with forward operating bases and fuel in late '41/early '42, they would be wrong.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 01:40 PM (tEDMc)


We actually had a lot of operating bases in the Pacific but abandoned them.  I think their worry was defending the West Coast, which given that we were already reading their mail through decoding it, they should have known better.   FDR wanted to devote almost all of our resources at that time to Europe.  And that is what he did.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 08:45 AM (vvmPQ)

92 Lincoln was a great man. He held this country together, and got rid of slavery once and for all in our land. It took a lot of courage to be strong in the face of the odds against him and America. We would not be the greatest country ever without his leadership.

Posted by: ALH at May 30, 2016 08:46 AM (Z56vq)

93 90 I will show it to my son too. He is currently on a Bob Dylan kick. :^) Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 01:42 PM (rmw+9) W00t! That can be addictive.

Posted by: rickl at May 30, 2016 08:46 AM (sdi6R)

94 I think it's great that Dylan is still performing. I have no idea about his politics or current religious views, but he is a great lyricist and musician if a lousy singer ;^) but he keeps a low profile about his life and his politics and I admire that-just keeps singing!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 08:49 AM (rmw+9)

95 I believe that, given sufficient time, history shall not be kind to Obama.

Posted by: Weasel at May 30, 2016 08:52 AM (e3bId)

96 Really? War of Northern Aggression shit within the first ten posts on Memorial Day? I swear, I don't get some people and their idea of "fun".

Posted by: Chupacabra at May 30, 2016 08:55 AM (Lv0zB)

97 busy with the grilling, so I haven't been paying attention....Has Bill "Ross Perot 2.0" Kristol revealed the sooper sekret identity of the Masked Candidate yet?

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at May 30, 2016 08:55 AM (7VPW0)

98 61 >>>>>his abandoning of the Army in the Philippines<<<<<< The Philippines were indefensible. There was nothing anybody could do to save or rescue the army there. Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 01:17 PM (tEDMc) That's the part that's debatable.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 30, 2016 08:58 AM (p4UlV)

99 Thanks CBD, Jim and Dave in Texas. Seldom do I get chills reading posts at the HQ. Perhaps it's just me getting older. But I think not.

Posted by: Golfman at May 30, 2016 08:58 AM (48QDY)

100 I just watched the last 5 minutes of the GS-OKC semi-final, where GS came back and forced a game 7. Wow. I 'm reminded of Rev 13:4, where it says "Who is like unto the Splash Bros?  And who is able to make war with them?"

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 08:59 AM (UHKOQ)

101 Because I think that if you love to perform you should do it as long as you can. I don't suspect he does it primarily for the money, but mainly because it's in his blood. It probably keeps him younger than his chronological age.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 30, 2016 09:00 AM (rmw+9)

102 From WZ: Vietnam thanks VN war protesters. They were "extremely important in contributing to Vietnam's victory."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 09:00 AM (Nwg0u)

103 95 I believe that, given sufficient time, history shall not be kind to Obama. Posted by: Weasel at May 30, 2016 01:52 PM (e3bId) Nor will the world. In short time.

Posted by: Golfman at May 30, 2016 09:01 AM (48QDY)

104 Jace Larson, KPRC The owners of Memorial Hand Car Wash says the shooter was feet from them, shirtless and appeared angry. ========= Sounding more like a nutter than a cartel hitman.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 30, 2016 09:02 AM (iQIUe)

105 Waiting for food here, lost chess game miserably to my uncle from Australia/Alaska

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 09:02 AM (EX5wM)

106 95 I believe that, given sufficient time, history shall not be kind to Obama.

Posted by: Weasel at May 30, 2016 01:52 PM (e3bId)


We'll just have to see about that.

Posted by: your betters in the MSM at May 30, 2016 09:02 AM (UHKOQ)

107 I sure wish someone at Google would actually use their own service and "Google" the meaning of Memorial Day. Their cute little insignia for Memorial Day is an American flag with a yellow ribbon. That signifies active troops in the field...not those we have lost and will never return to our shores.

Posted by: OrsonSnow at May 30, 2016 09:05 AM (L6fT5)

108 102 From WZ: Vietnam thanks VN war protesters. They were "extremely important in contributing to Vietnam's victory."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 02:00 PM (Nwg0u)


And, in related news, you can purchase Jane Fonda urinal targets on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CC3XPZK

Price is about $20 for a pack of 10.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 09:06 AM (UHKOQ)

109 108  And, in related news, you can purchase Jane Fonda urinal targets on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CC3XPZK

Price is about $20 for a pack of 10.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 02:06 PM (UHKOQ)



I am holding out for her grave so I can piss on it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 09:10 AM (vvmPQ)

110 That yellow ball didn't last long.  Raining again now.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 09:10 AM (vvmPQ)

111 5 I believe that, given sufficient time, history shall not be kind to Obama. Posted by: Weasel at May 30, 2016 01:52 PM (e3bId) We'll just have to see about that. Posted by: your betters in the MSM at May 30, 2016 02:02 PM (UHKOQ) Hey, what about us?

Posted by: The Academy and the Entertainment Industry at May 30, 2016 09:12 AM (11H2y)

112 It warms the cockles of my frozen shriveled black heart to see so many American flags being flown in front of residences in my neighborhood.  Beautiful.


We have the freedom to be Americans because so many men and women answered the call to secure and defend our way of life.  All of them gave some and some of them gave all.

Posted by: Count de Monet at May 30, 2016 09:12 AM (JO9+V)

113 Has Bill "Ross Perot 2.0" Kristol revealed the sooper sekret identity of the Masked Candidate yet? Posted by: Sticky Wicket "The Unknown Candidate" with a paper bag over his head.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2016 09:14 AM (k4M/B)

114 >>>>>That's the part that's debatable.<<<<<<

You don't get to Leyte Gulf without Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, Guadalcanal, etc.


Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 09:14 AM (tEDMc)

115 I dont think Jane Fonda will have a grave. Probably be cremated and dumped in the ocean. So, I guess you can always take a piss in the Pacific.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 30, 2016 09:14 AM (iQIUe)

116 111 5 I believe that, given sufficient time, history shall not be kind to Obama. Posted by: Weasel at May 30, 2016 01:52 PM (e3bId) We'll just have to see about that. Posted by: your betters in the MSM at May 30, 2016 02:02 PM (UHKOQ) Hey, what about us? Posted by: The Academy and the Entertainment Industry at May 30, 2016 02:12 PM (11H2y) Don't forget us - your tax dollars hard at work!

Posted by: American Education System at May 30, 2016 09:14 AM (7qAYi)

117 Has Bill "Ross Perot 2.0" Kristol revealed the sooper sekret identity of the Masked Candidate yet? Anyone seen Bob Dole lately?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 30, 2016 09:18 AM (8ZskC)

118 Has Bill "Ross Perot 2.0" Kristol revealed the sooper sekret identity of the Masked Candidate yet? Hi-yo Silver, away, my friendshh!

Posted by: The Lone Maverick at May 30, 2016 09:20 AM (8ZskC)

119 So with Kristol's attempt to derail Trump with President Hillary, looks like those NeoCons really are just liberals wearing a mask. So glad conservatives have been bowing to Israel with billions in aid all of these years to court this vote.

Posted by: Tyler at May 30, 2016 09:23 AM (BCelo)

120 Ben Sasse, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz Not Running as Independent Against Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton in November http://goo.gl/UMnnRa ========== I thought Sasse may have changed his mind but it doesnt look like it.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 30, 2016 09:24 AM (iQIUe)

121 At least for ONE day could politics NOT enter into discussion?

   On this day in particular.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 30, 2016 09:26 AM (X35Yt)

122 What irongrampa said. 

The Great Escape just started on TCM.

Posted by: Infidel at May 30, 2016 09:28 AM (5DSEi)

123 Somebody drank the bong water.

Posted by: Ron Jeremy at May 30, 2016 09:28 AM (OwdyX)

124 100 I just watched the last 5 minutes of the GS-OKC semi-final, where GS came back and forced a game 7. Wow. I 'm reminded of Rev 13:4, where it says "Who is like unto the Splash Bros? And who is able to make war with them?" Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 01:59 PM (UHKOQ) Whoever wins this semi-final, it's remarkable that OKC beat the 2nd best NBA team, my Spurs, and has come this close to beating the Terminator-like best team. I'd really like to see them go on and win it all. Nothing against GS and cleveland, but it's fun to see the upstart do it.

Posted by: stace at May 30, 2016 09:30 AM (ozZau)

125 Vic, We could have rescued the Army and Navy in the Philippines if: 1) MacArthur had not lost his Air Force on the ground hours after Pearl Harbor. 2) MacArthur had moved all supplies and troops to Bataan per the prearranged war plan. 3) The Wake Relief Force under VADM Pye had caught two of the 6 Japanese CVs off-guard. This is difficult, with the longer ranged Japanese strike and recon aircraft. Even so, it would have been very tough without the Battle Line to help screen the USN CVs. Remember, there were some Japanese held islands, with long-ranges scouting aircraft, between Wake and the Philippines. The USN had no counter for the better IJN aircraft until the Battle of Coral Sea. And our SS torps sucked.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 09:30 AM (u82oZ)

126 Without politics there would be no war dead.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2016 09:31 AM (k4M/B)

127 Lest we forget the fallen youth: William Winton Webb Second Lieutenant, USARV February 20, 1942 to June 05, 1966 God Bless them all!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at May 30, 2016 09:32 AM (wYnyS)

128 Sorry to go OT but the internet is not helping. So our fridge, water dispenser on door was leaking madly, as if stuck in ON. Viedo said test the water inlet valve (solenoid) which we did. Video said if there is no continuity, obviously broken. Should test between 500 -1500 ohms. Results are 175 ohms for the water , 350 ohms for the ice. So they have resistance, but is that too low? The part is 2186486 (Fridge model 106.58585890) Here's the video we followed (delete space) Http://www.repairclinic.com/RepairHelp/ RepairHelpVideoLayer?videoIdCSV=629&hpl=true

Posted by: @votermom at May 30, 2016 09:33 AM (7lVbc)

129 I just returned from a memorial service at the Kansas Veterans Cemetery. There were more people here today than in previous years. It is very sobering to see the tombstones and marked Urn boxes. I see that your top military awards are placed on the headstone, as well as the campaigns that were going on during your service, even if you did not earn the campaign ribbon. In addition, I saw a lot of new symbols above the name, not just a cross. My wife thought it was good, but I noticed the speaches were not as good as in the past, and the three volley's had only one gun firing in the first volley. Clicks the rest of the time.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 09:35 AM (u82oZ)

130 >>>>>At least for ONE day could politics NOT enter into discussion?<<<<

How about an open politics thread?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at May 30, 2016 09:36 AM (tEDMc)

131 102 From WZ: Vietnam thanks VN war protesters. They were "extremely important in contributing to Vietnam's victory." Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at May 30, 2016 02:00 PM (Nwg0u) ISIS marketing deparment writing that one down.

Posted by: Gem at May 30, 2016 09:36 AM (c+gwp)

132 Posted by: @votermom at May 30, 2016 02:33 PM (7lVbc) Turn the water off. Solenoid is bad. No/low resistance indicates bad solenoid.

Posted by: Golfman at May 30, 2016 09:36 AM (48QDY)

133 All this for a damn flag?

Posted by: FLOTUS at May 30, 2016 09:39 AM (gwG9s)

134 Cobs as always have put out some great Memorial Day posts. Recently I learned of a very moving memorial practice one family does. My friend's son-in-law's family names at least one member of every generation after their ancestor's friend who was killed in battle before marrying. My friend can't remember which war it was, but on the battlefield the dying man asked his friend to always remember him, and to this day that family does in a very personal way.

Posted by: stace at May 30, 2016 09:39 AM (ozZau)

135 Happy Memorial Day, everyone. Jimbo a Cob now?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 09:42 AM (lOfno)

136 I am holding out for her grave so I can piss on it. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 02:10 PM (vvmPQ) Hope you won't mind standing in line for a long time, but the company there will be great!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at May 30, 2016 09:43 AM (wYnyS)

137 Votermom should be a shut off to refrigerator, usually only 1/4" line

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 09:45 AM (EX5wM)

138 For anyone interested, Midway is on AMC at 3 central.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 09:45 AM (kTF2Z)

139 " For anyone interested, Midway is on AMC at 3 central." Interested. Seen a hundred times but 101 won't hurt.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 09:47 AM (lOfno)

140 125  The USN had no counter for the better IJN aircraft until the Battle of Coral Sea. And our SS torps sucked.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at May 30, 2016 02:30 PM (u82oZ)



The US F4F was quite successful against the Zero.  It was not as fast or as nimble as the Zero but it was much more rugged and able to survive hit.  All that stuff you hear about their having superior planes was myth, unless you were talking about the POS Brewster Buffalo which the  Army refused to take and they foisted it off on the Navy. 



As for the torpedos they had some initial problems but those were ironed out fairly quick and the same ones they started with played a significant role in submarine warfare.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 09:47 AM (vvmPQ)

141 One of my neighbors has an inflatable Mickey Mouse Uncle Sam on their porch. Throwing up in my mouth a little bit. Not only is it not appropriate, but I'm starting to really loathe Disney... part of the oppressor class.

Posted by: Gem at May 30, 2016 09:49 AM (c+gwp)

142 138 For anyone interested, Midway is on AMC at 3 central. Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 02:45 PM (kTF2Z) Which means 4 Eastern? Which will just be when I'm done watching The Longest Day on netflix.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 09:51 AM (7qAYi)

143 Bless all of the soldiers who have perished fighting for a free world, a free America. I sincerely and humbly thank you.

Posted by: washrivergal at May 30, 2016 09:51 AM (CFc5L)

144 Turn the water off. Solenoid is bad. No/low resistance indicates bad solenoid. Posted by: Golfman at May 30, 2016 02:36 PM (48QDY) Yes, the water has been shut off since it started, the other day. Just want to be sure that's the problem part. Or do we need to test the buttons on the door too?

Posted by: @votermom at May 30, 2016 09:53 AM (7lVbc)

145 FUCK GOOGLE

FUCK JANE FONDA

FUCK VIETNAM

FUCK OBAMA

FUCK FDR

FUCK ISIS

FUCK THE JAPANESE EMPIRE

FUCK NAZIS

FUCK COMMIES

FUCK THE FUCKING FUCKERS

Posted by: MIRROR UNIVERSE MEMORIAL DAY MISCELLANY at May 30, 2016 09:53 AM (KId5h)

146 "The US F4F was quite successful against the Zero. It was not as fast or as nimble as the Zero but it was much more rugged and able to survive hit. All that stuff you hear about their having superior planes was myth, unless you were talking about the POS Brewster Buffalo which the Army refused to take and they foisted it off on the Navy." Once the U.S. captured a Zero in the Aleutians (early '42) they tested it against the U.S. aircraft of the day. P-40. P-36, P-38, P-39, P-43, Wildcat, etc. They found, that of them all, the one that did the best in a swirling, snarling fight with a Zero was.......the Wildcat. You didn't want to do that, but, if you found yourself in that situation.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 09:54 AM (lOfno)

147 My Dad landed at Omaha Beach. But he was a replacement, and he walked onto it long after it was secure. His fun really started when he caught up with Patton at Metz. Brave Rifles, tip of the spear.

Posted by: Meremortal, Someone's French sucks at May 30, 2016 10:00 AM (3myMJ)

148 RIP to the fallen. Today at the Dane County Airport in Madison, WI, the gate agent at Delta called for a minute to remember them and to thank them. She let about 30 seconds pass and then resumed with boarding. Not bad.

Posted by: iforgot at May 30, 2016 10:00 AM (5o5ek)

149 Yes, the Wildcat was a good plane, but the Zero was absolutely no match for the F-14 Tomcat. Saw it in a movie once. Which was cool. And a total non sequitur.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 10:00 AM (kTF2Z)

150 The problems we had early in the war with Japan in the Pacific wasn't the quality of the aircraft, it was the quantity.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 10:01 AM (vvmPQ)

151 149 Yes, the Wildcat was a good plane, but the Zero was absolutely no match for the F-14 Tomcat. Saw it in a movie once. Which was cool. And a total non sequitur.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 03:00 PM (kTF2Z)


I loved that movie  I did have a copy of it I made from TV but it was on Beta and all of that is gone now.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 10:02 AM (vvmPQ)

152 Shane Childers

Posted by: iforgot at May 30, 2016 10:03 AM (5o5ek)

153 BTW, there's a lot of black people having a screaming fit on Twitter about the child being saved from the gorilla being an example of white privilege. Also lots of griping about the mother being an idiot. They don't know that the child and mother are black, oops.

Posted by: Meremortal, Someone's French sucks at May 30, 2016 10:04 AM (3myMJ)

154 150 The problems we had early in the war with Japan in the Pacific wasn't the quality of the aircraft, it was the quantity. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 03:01 PM (vvmPQ) And the experience of the pilots. Japanese pilots had been fighting in China since 1937, most of our pilots had never fired a shot in anger.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 10:04 AM (7qAYi)

155 Vic, I think it's still on Netflix.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 10:05 AM (kTF2Z)

156 "The problems we had early in the war with Japan in the Pacific wasn't the quality of the aircraft, it was the quantity. " They couldn't get fighters out to Midway. They didn't have the tanks and the Navy's carriers were busy looking for the Japanese. The Army flew B-17s and unarmed B-26s out, some from California. As you say, quality was not an issue. Training, readiness, supplies.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 10:06 AM (lOfno)

157 Ba Ba Black Sheep is a good book about the early days in the Pacific theater before Pearl Harbor and after. By Pappy Boyington. Later a TV show.

Posted by: Meremortal, Someone's French sucks at May 30, 2016 10:07 AM (3myMJ)

158 155 Vic, I think it's still on Netflix.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 03:05 PM (kTF2Z)



Sorry, which movie is that?

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:08 AM (oKE6c)

159 Love Midway, the movie. I've mentioned this before, but George Gay, the sole survivor of Torpedo 8, spoke at my A&M graduation luncheon. He was an Aggie. I made damn sure to go up and shake his hand so could say I met him. He passed away in 1994. Which reminds me of the stream of formulaic but entertaining WW2 movies Hollywood put out for homefront morale. We've Never Been Licked was about two Aggie buddies in college who then go off to war while in love with the same girl. Quite the original plot, not, but still entertaining.

Posted by: stace at May 30, 2016 10:09 AM (ozZau)

160 I don't have netflix.  You can buy it from Amazon but they are asking too much for it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 10:09 AM (vvmPQ)

161 most of our pilots had never fired a shot in anger. To hear Brian Williams talk, soldiers only discharge their weapons when someone pisses them off.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 30, 2016 10:11 AM (6FqZa)

162 158 155 Vic, I think it's still on Netflix. Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 03:05 PM (kTF2Z) Sorry, which movie is that? Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 30, 2016 03:08 PM (oKE6c) The Final Countdown. It's available on the Netflix DVD site. Sign up for a free trial, watch it, then cancel.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 10:12 AM (7qAYi)

163 158 155 Vic, I think it's still on Netflix. Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 03:05 PM (kTF2Z) Sorry, which movie is that? Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 30, 2016 03:08 PM (oKE6c) -------- The Final Countdown. The USS Nimitz goes back in time to Dec 6th, 1941.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 10:12 AM (kTF2Z)

164 I read Pappy Boyington's book in high school.

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 10:12 AM (EX5wM)

165 My father was long time commander of VFW Post up until his premature death. I traveled with him every Memorial Day to the military gravesite in my former town to formally honor the fallen. My father is now buried there and I hope they have kept up the tradition.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 10:12 AM (kwakj)

166 160 I don't have netflix. You can buy it from Amazon but they are asking too much for it. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 03:09 PM (vvmPQ) Averages about $10 on ebay.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 10:13 AM (7qAYi)

167 "I've mentioned this before, but George Gay, the sole survivor of Torpedo 8, spoke at my A&M graduation luncheon. He was an Aggie. I made damn sure to go up and shake his hand so could say I met him. He passed away in 1994. " Ens. George Gay. God bless that man. Sent on a fool's mission but saw it through. Bought time for the Cavalry. God Bless All of Torpedo 8.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 10:13 AM (lOfno)

168 The scene with the Zeroes VS the Tomcats is on youtube. Entertaining.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 10:15 AM (kTF2Z)

169 The Final Countdown is on YouTube

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 10:17 AM (EX5wM)

170 Netflix is one of the few things these days that's worth every penny. Only 9 bucks a month for thousands of tv shows/movies/original productions, etc. I've watched a ton of stuff I'd never seen before, as well as a bunch of old faves. Of course, 90% of the contents might be crap, but that still leaves plenty to choose from, with new additions monthly. Another good value is MLB Gameday Audio, 20 bucks for a full season of every MLB game played, with your choice of home otr away broadcast teams.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 30, 2016 10:18 AM (2cS/G)

171 161 most of our pilots had never fired a shot in anger. To hear Brian Williams talk, soldiers only discharge their weapons when someone pisses them off. Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 30, 2016 03:11 PM (6FqZa) --- They should make it rain hot lead from an attitude of love, people.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at May 30, 2016 10:18 AM (jR7Wy)

172 Just checked. The whole movie is on youtube.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 10:19 AM (kTF2Z)

173 Victory at Sea was also a great documentary about the Pacific War. I need to head back to Fredericksburg to visit the Nimitz museum. Great Uncle was at Midway, my dad said he never was the same person he was before the war. God Bless all those who gave all.

Posted by: auscolpyr at May 30, 2016 10:19 AM (Ht/4p)

174 I can't believe I'm arguing with VIC. The Wildcat was good, with the right training. Some of the CVs had F2A Buffalos early in the war, including the USS Saratoga (CV-3) which was part of the Wake Relief Force (TF-1). It took until the Battle of Coral Sea to realize dogfighting against a Zero with a Wildcat or Buffalo was suicide. Air Group tactics, including the Thatch weave, evolved to get the most out of the Wildcat. In 1942, not in 1941. Similarly, the SS torpedo fix was in 1943.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:21 AM (u82oZ)

175 Used to watch Victory At Sea every week as a young boy. Pappy Boyington was one tough guy. His account of being a Japanese POW is chilling.

Posted by: Meremortal, Someone's French sucks at May 30, 2016 10:21 AM (3myMJ)

176 I was playing golf some years ago and got put with a threesome of older fellows. On the tee box I was standing about 10 feet directly behind one man as he was addressing ball. He backed off, turned around and said, "Would you mind moving off to the side? I'm an old P-51 pilot and I still get bothered by anyone being straight behind me."

Posted by: Meremortal, Someone's French sucks at May 30, 2016 10:24 AM (3myMJ)

177 Victory at Sea is on YouTube, I've pondered watching the whole thing.

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 10:25 AM (EX5wM)

178 Lincolntf, TMobile subscribers get MLB audio for free. I still wish I could watch it on television sometimes, but it's not worth paying for cable.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at May 30, 2016 10:26 AM (FQKBL)

179 Really? Free MLB Audio with TMobile? I might have to switch to them next time I get a new phone.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 30, 2016 10:27 AM (2cS/G)

180 "Similarly, the SS torpedo fix was in 1943. " Officially fixed in 43. The crews would replace the fuse/detonator with a working home built contraption once they left port for patrol then they would put the original parts back in when the returned. They risked getting court martialed if they got caught with jury rigged torps.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois at May 30, 2016 10:28 AM (WVsWD)

181 I read a quote somewhere from Boyington where he said that his health improved in Japanese prison camps due to forced sobriety.

Posted by: OrsonSnow at May 30, 2016 10:29 AM (L6fT5)

182 Claire Chenault realized that a P-40 couldn't turn against a Zero and taught his men to not even try. The Zero was, aerodynamically, better than anything we had. The thing that's always struck me as funny (in the odd, not the hah-hah sense) is that we figured out to put self-sealing bladders in the fuel tanks and they -- despite superior engineering -- didn't, which led to zeroes going 'splodey.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 10:31 AM (1xUj/)

183 "Similarly, the SS torpedo fix was in 1943. " Officially fixed in 43 Oh shit...stupid brain. Was it a guy named Mumsen who made the brass test the torpedoes and prove that they didn't 'splode when they were supposed to? I read a book once. It was a guy who went on to invent some serious submariner saving devices.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 10:33 AM (1xUj/)

184 >>>and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. Fine by me, as long as it's the right people.

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 30, 2016 10:34 AM (eREm+)

185 "Lincoln would not be elected today. " Yes he would. Lincoln was a consummate politician. Think Bill Clinton. Debased currency. Suspended habeas corpus. Put his political enemies in jail. (just the ones he could) Porked up the military. Instituted a draft. He really was a tyrant. Just goes to show that the Constitution of the United States hasn't meant anything for a long time. Lincoln wrote and delivered a moving speech. Did you know that McCain and GHWB were patriots that loved and served their countries. Bill Clinton, "I did not have sex with that woman, that Miss Lewinsky". "I'm not like Tammy Wynette. I stand by my man", Hillary Clinton.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 10:35 AM (CRXed)

186 When I was a SLJO/Movie Officer, I checked out some movie reels to play in the wardroom during a Med Deployment. Including the best of Victory at Sea. The Victory at Sea episode "Suicide for Glory" was chilling. Especially for a DCA. As an anode to the Victory as Sea films, I had "Blonds Refer Gentlemen" and "How to Succeed with Brunettes." These were Naval Academy training films on social etiquette, filmed in 1966, but with advice appropriate for the Victorian era. Hilarious.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:39 AM (u82oZ)

187 Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 03:35 PM (CRXed) Add another to my scroll by list.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 10:40 AM (MNgU2)

188 I believe today is the anniversary of the opening of the Lincoln Memorial, with the opening speech delivered by William Howard Taft (in his role as Chief Justice).

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2016 10:40 AM (/m8T6)

189 The Final Countdown. It's available on the Netflix DVD site. Sign up for a free trial, watch it, then cancel.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 03:12 PM (7qAYi)

163 158 155 Vic, I think it's still on Netflix.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 03:05 PM (kTF2Z)

--------

The Final Countdown. The USS Nimitz goes back in time to Dec 6th, 1941.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 03:12 PM (kTF2Z)


Thanks, guys.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:41 AM (oKE6c)

190 185 One more asshole comes out of the woodwork.

Posted by: what me worry? at May 30, 2016 10:42 AM (dZGNV)

191 Bought Victory at Sea DVD set at Walmart for $5.00

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2016 10:42 AM (k4M/B)

192 I'm watching Inside Vietnam, and now it's the POW release. I agree with no politics on the thread, but what Trump said about these POWS earned my everlasting hatred. Ugh sorry.

Posted by: stace at May 30, 2016 10:42 AM (ozZau)

193 The "Thatch Weave" didn't hurt, but without the Aussie-Brit coastwatchers, we stood an excellent chance of coming up short in the Solomons.

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 10:42 AM (JBggj)

194 Bandersnatch Munson invented and had the Navy use the Munson Lung for self-rescue from a stricken sub. Lockwood, the PacFleet Sub commander was the one who had the horsepower to overcome the Naval BUOrd torpedo experts.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:42 AM (u82oZ)

195 Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 03:33 PM (1xUj/) IIRC Hedy Lamar was the inventor of a radio frequency guidance system for the torpedo. It was ahead of its time sinc the Navy didn't use it until after WWII. I also think it's credited as the mother of WiFi.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 10:43 AM (MNgU2)

196 IIRC Hedy Lamar was the inventor of a radio frequency guidance system for the torpedo. It was ahead of its time sinc the Navy didn't use it until after WWII. I also think it's credited as the mother of WiFi. That's "Hedley!"

Posted by: Hedley Lamar at May 30, 2016 10:44 AM (7qAYi)

197 " Claire Chenault realized that a P-40 couldn't turn against a Zero and taught his men to not even try. " And Chenault was sending messages back to the U.S. in 1941 telling the government what they were facing. And the Government, Army, Navy disregarded him. They thought he was playing for attention, money.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 10:45 AM (lOfno)

198 Add another to my scroll by list. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck --------------- Some of his posts are fun, though In the same way that reading a Jesse Ventura newsletter is fun.

Posted by: Chi at May 30, 2016 10:46 AM (naCIf)

199 Joe Hallenbeck Spread Spectrum (frequency-hopping) for communications.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:46 AM (u82oZ)

200 That's "Hedley!" His mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2016 10:47 AM (k4M/B)

201 Had a barber was a WWII vet. Small town, two barbershops, both run by WWII vets but the other guys were Navy and Elmo was an Engineer. Landed on Normandy D+10 and went East with Patton. He told me, P-51 was a damn fine plane. First time I saw one, it was strafing me. Where do we get such men?

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2016 10:47 AM (2Ocf1)

202 "despite superior engineering" You have never been in design or manufacturing or you didn't pay attention when you were. Unless you have a smart guy at the top, who is an asshole/tyrant (Steve Jobs) things evolve at best. Engineering isn't allowed to design something the manufacturing floor can't build. The manufacturing floor can not build something that isn't designed. Officer corp (commissioned and uncommissioned) is what makes a military. Managers, engineers, and manufacturing leads make a manufacturing organization. Bringing over German Engineers was a way to bypass brass hats. I've worked with Germans. Autistic assholes who can only really work with other Germans. Bring over smart people from China and they do excellent work in the US. Keep them in China and they act like frightened children. Because bad things can happen to you in China if you get uppity. Collective. Not just the Borg.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 10:47 AM (CRXed)

203 I'm pretty sure that what Hedy Lamar invented was the concept of frequency hopping. She was among other things a gifted pianist and had the idea of changing keys (or chords, or something). Also she spied on some high level Austrian Nazi by schtupping him. Also she took her kit off in the 1933 Czech film Extase.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 10:48 AM (1xUj/)

204 IIRC Hedy Lamar was the inventor of a radio frequency guidance system for the torpedo. It was ahead of its time sinc the Navy didn't use it until after WWII. I also think it's credited as the mother of WiFi.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 03:43 PM (MNgU2)




She (along with some other guy) invented frequency hopping as a means of securing communications. They were playing the piano together when they had the idea.


Unfortunately the technology was not well-enough developed at the time for the idea to be of any use.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:48 AM (oKE6c)

205 "He told me, P-51 was a damn fine plane. First time I saw one, it was strafing me. " Had to snort at that.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 10:48 AM (lOfno)

206 197 Ricardo Kill It's a truism that any organization, especially a military one, learns only from their own mistakes. We also disregarded excellent information from the pre-war Japanese ambassador and his Naval attaché.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:48 AM (u82oZ)

207 Missed it by thaaaaaaaaat much.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:49 AM (oKE6c)

208 They thought he was playing for attention, money.
===========

The Battle of Britain took place a 1.5 years before Pearl Harbor.  One would think that that would be ample time to put in place an effective early warning-command and control system in the Philippines and/or the Hawaiian Islands, but, no.

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 10:49 AM (JBggj)

209 Friendly fire has been going on since combatants have been shooting at each other with bows and arrows

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 10:49 AM (EX5wM)

210 Posted by: NaCly Dog at May 30, 2016 03:46 PM (u82oZ) Was it used for torpedo guidance also? Digging way back to my High School days so I may be misremembering.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 10:49 AM (MNgU2)

211 Also she took her kit off in the 1933 Czech film Extase. Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 03:48 PM (1xUj/) I'll have to Czech it out.

Posted by: Hedley Lamar at May 30, 2016 10:49 AM (7qAYi)

212 I used to go downtown to see Mr Lincoln Memorial Day weekend, but Rolling Thunder makes it near impossible anymore. Those two speeches, Gettysburg and Second Inaugural - true works of art.

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2016 10:50 AM (2Ocf1)

213 "P-51 was a damn fine plane." Arguably the best fighter of WW2.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 10:50 AM (CRXed)

214 Was it used for torpedo guidance also? Digging way back to my High School days so I may be misremembering.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 03:49 PM (MNgU2)


IIRC, that was the proximate trigger for the invention, i.e., the problem they proposed to solve had something to do with torpedo guidance and preventing interference/jamming.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:50 AM (oKE6c)

215 Fixed: pre-war Ambassador to Japan and his Naval attache.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:51 AM (u82oZ)

216 210 Joe Hallenbeck No. Sorry.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 10:52 AM (u82oZ)

217 IIRC Hedy Lamar was the inventor of a radio frequency guidance system for the torpedo. It was ahead of its time sinc the Navy didn't use it until after WWII. I also think it's credited as the mother of WiFi.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 03:43 PM (MNgU2)


The mother of wifi security, yes. Frequency-hopping was her idea.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 10:52 AM (UHKOQ)

218 I've always liked the Corsair, which might have a better kill ratio.

Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 10:52 AM (EX5wM)

219 209 Friendly fire has been going on since combatants have been shooting at each other with bows and arrows Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 03:49 PM (EX5wM) That's why crossbows are better. /ducks

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 10:54 AM (7qAYi)

220 I've never seen Midway, so I'm downloading it from, uh, a service that rhymes with FitBorrent, but is totes different.

Boy, talk about an all-star cast.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 10:54 AM (UHKOQ)

221 "The Battle of Britain took place a 1.5 years before Pearl Harbor. One would think that that would be ample time to put in place an effective early warning-command and control system in the Philippines and/or the Hawaiian Islands, but, no. " The British understood radar. They really did. No one else did. German, American, it was a toy. Remember we had the mobile radar sights in Oahu and nobody believed them. We saw the Japanese coming in and nobody really thought a thing about it.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 10:55 AM (lOfno)

222 209 Friendly fire has been going on since combatants have been shooting at each other with bows and arrows
Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 03:49 PM (EX5wM)


And sometimes it even happens on smart military blogs...

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 10:55 AM (UHKOQ)

223 Posted by: NaCly Dog at May 30, 2016 03:52 PM (u82oZ) I like Jay's answer better.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 10:55 AM (MNgU2)

224 Also she took her kit off in the 1933 Czech film Extase. Posted by: Bandersnatch I'll have to Czech it out. Posted by: Hedley Lamar Czech's in the female.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2016 10:56 AM (k4M/B)

225 Not seeing what's coming: it's what politicians do. I visited Bletchley Park in the UK wher Enigma decoding happened. Much of the work was based on that of Polish mathemeticians. They had been spirited out of Poland because they decoded the German attack plans. The U.K. got them out.

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2016 10:57 AM (2Ocf1)

226 "Midway" firing up. We got B-25s with 50' of launch space.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 10:58 AM (lOfno)

227 "Hedy Lamar" Beautiful woman. There are a few nude pictures from the film on the net. (erosblog.com has some) I don't think you can get a copy of the film. By description it would be NC-17. I don't think she did any more like that. (If she did please give me a link.) In the ones I've watched all you get to see is her beautiful face.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 10:58 AM (CRXed)

228 Here's a link to Hedy Lamar's patent: http://tinyurl.com/j2bncez

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:58 AM (oKE6c)

229 Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 03:55 PM (lOfno) Freaking Germans were fast learners though. They connected their AA guns to radar to make night raids as dangerous as day raids.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at May 30, 2016 10:58 AM (MNgU2)

230 Midway is starting. Doolittles raid. Talk about balls! Knowing it's a one way trip and they went anyway.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 10:58 AM (kTF2Z)

231 Interestingly, and on topic, Abraham Lincoln also has a patent - a way of lifting grounded boats off of sand bars, IIRC.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 10:59 AM (oKE6c)

232 Has Bill "Ross Perot 2.0" Kristol revealed the sooper sekret identity of the Masked Candidate yet? Posted by: Sticky Wicket My money says it's Sasse. But this will sure be interesting. Kristol has to have the most massive, epic case of butthurt I've ever seen. He's just humiliating himself at this point.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at May 30, 2016 10:59 AM (WlGX+)

233 From Hedy Lamar's patent:

"This invention relates broadly to secret communication systems involving the use of carrier waves of different frequencies, and is especially useful in the remote control of dirigible craft, such as torpedoes"

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 11:01 AM (oKE6c)

234 "Freaking Germans were fast learners though. They connected their AA guns to radar to make night raids as dangerous as day raids." Yeah, they did. It was hell later in the war.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 11:02 AM (lOfno)

235 "I visited Bletchley Park in the UK wher Enigma decoding happened." That is bloody awesome. Tell more.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 11:04 AM (lOfno)

236 In the ones I've watched all you get to see is her beautiful face. She goes skinny dipping and puts her clothes on her horse. The horse runs off and she has to chase it. You see breasts clearly in the skinny dipping bit and also later when she's hiding from the guy who finds her horse. You see a lot when she's scampering along the lake bank, but it's in reflection, and similarly when she's running into the brush but it's at a distance. Or, um, I think that's what I read somewhere.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 30, 2016 11:04 AM (1xUj/)

237 191 Worth it for the soundtrack alone!

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 30, 2016 11:05 AM (wYnyS)

238 My money says it's Sasse. But this will sure be interesting. Kristol has to have the most massive, epic case of butthurt I've ever seen. He's just humiliating himself at this point. Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at May 30, 2016 03:59 PM (WlGX+) The line about either dying young as a hero or being made into a villain should have an accompaniment of: Die young and be seen as smart and thoughtful, or get old and make yourself into a laughingstock.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at May 30, 2016 11:05 AM (3ZoRf)

239 Joe Hallenbeck I'm sure. The torpedo control functions were designed to be very accurate in course setting. They were. The fuses were the problem. Navy submarine COs would bounce torpedoes off the enemy ship. They just would not explode at right angles, or sometimes, at all. The depth controls also were not right, sending the torpedoes too deep. Lockwood;s test found that out also. The reason the US Navy gave Lamar no time of day was radio propagation into seawater at the frequencies available was vey poor. So there was not enough signal getting through to control the torpedoes. And an antenna above water would defeat the very purpose of a torpedo.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 11:05 AM (u82oZ)

240 Kristol has to have the most massive, epic case of butthurt I've ever seen. He's just humiliating himself at this point.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at May 30, 2016 03:59 PM (WlGX+)


We need to send him a case of extra-strength butt cream.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 11:07 AM (UHKOQ)

241 231 Jay Guevara Lincoln is the only US President with an approved patent. Thomas Jefferson was the Patent Examiner on the first US Patent.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 11:07 AM (u82oZ)

242 My money says it's Sasse. But this will sure be interesting. Kristol has to have the most massive, epic case of butthurt I've ever seen. He's just humiliating himself at this point. Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at May 30, 2016 03:59 PM (WlGX+) Kristol the whole lot should be shot on sight

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 11:08 AM (Ozsfq)

243 "The fuses were the problem. Navy submarine COs would bounce torpedoes off the enemy ship. They just would not explode at right angles, or sometimes, at all." e Yeah, early in the war U.S. torpedos didn't ignite. They'd track, but not "go boom."

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 30, 2016 11:08 AM (lOfno)

244 164 >> I read Pappy Boyington's book in high school. Posted by: Skip at May 30, 2016 03:12 PM (EX5wM) When I was in high school, Pappy Boyington and the guy who shot him down spoke at the local high school in Arlington, TX. Everyone in my aviation class went over to hear them. It was pretty impressive. He was a pretty amazing guy.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at May 30, 2016 11:10 AM (ob5xJ)

245 "later when she's hiding from the guy who finds her horse." My understanding is that him and her find out they are compatible and the film ends with her O face filling the screen. Haven't seen it. Just read about it.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:10 AM (CRXed)

246 I don't think she did any more like that. (If she did please give me a link.) In the ones I've watched all you get to see is her beautiful face.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 03:58 PM (CRXed)


I think her biggest (whatever that means) role was the lead role in the 1949 Cecil B. DeMille film _Samson and Delilah_.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 11:11 AM (UHKOQ)

247 Thomas Jefferson was the Patent Examiner on the first US Patent.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at May 30, 2016 04:07 PM (u82oZ)



Interesting. I hadn't known that. Thanks.


A friend of mine was ranting about the examiner of a patent application he'd submitted, generally disparaging his intellect. I pointed out that Einstein had been a patent examiner for quite a few years, in Switzerland.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 11:11 AM (oKE6c)

248 247 Jay Guevara A friend of mine was ranting about the examiner of a patent application he'd submitted, generally disparaging his intellect. Your friend could very well be right. I was a Patent Examiner in a previous career.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 11:13 AM (u82oZ)

249
ONE TIME AT BUTT HURT CAMP IDI WAS REALLY ROUGH ON SASSE'S BEAVER. BEN ASKED ME TO PUT SOME 'ROID CREAM BACK THERE FOR HIM, BUT I ACCIDENTALLY GRABBED A TUBE OF IDI'S HARISSA PASTE AND SHOT THAT UP OLE BEN'S POOTER INSTEAD.

HE SHIT BLOOD FOR A WEEK AND VOWED RIGHT THEN TO BECOME A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER AND GO INTO POLITICS.

Posted by: MIRROR UNIVERSE KRISTOLS SANDY MANGINA at May 30, 2016 11:16 AM (KId5h)

250 Speaking of the Civil War, I found a website that you can use to search for ancestors who fought in that late unpleasantness: Www.now.gov/Civil War/search-soldiers.htm Because my surname is so unique and my ancestors are all compiled in a genealogy printed in the early 70a that tracks us since the first Sharkman landed in Massachusetts in about 1640, I am very confident that my search is accurate. The search indicates the home state for each Civil War vet. The result? Six Sharkmen fought for the South, one in the infantry from Louisiana, the other five in the same North Carolina artillery regiment. Thirty-five Sharkmen fought for the North. Alas, the site does not provide any more information about whether these soldiers died or were wounded in the war.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 30, 2016 11:17 AM (hUPKb)

251 Those Mirror Universe posts are a hoot.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at May 30, 2016 11:21 AM (89T5c)

252 Hope all is well, Sharkman.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at May 30, 2016 11:22 AM (89T5c)

253 Holy crap, you know who's in Midway? I mean, aside from all the name actors like Charlton Heston and Henry Fonda?

Tom Selleck. Just saw his name in the credits.

Also Erik Estrada. He must've been about 12 years old at the time.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 11:23 AM (UHKOQ)

254 250 Sharkman Cool. My ancestors were here, but did not fight. A cousin did, and we still have his diary in the family. It's mostly housekeeping items up to his death on picket duty.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 11:23 AM (u82oZ)

255 253 Holy crap, you know who's in Midway? I mean, aside from all the name actors like Charlton Heston and Henry Fonda? Tom Selleck. Just saw his name in the credits. He's a pilot, IIRC.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 11:25 AM (7qAYi)

256 251 Those Mirror Universe posts are a hoot. Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at May 30, 2016 04:21 PM (89T5c) Makes you wonder if any of our posts wind up on their AoSHQ.

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 11:26 AM (7qAYi)

257 President Obama Calls for True Remembrance of Nation's Fallen Through Actions The sodomite has done everything he can to gut and destroy the military and its morale and then lies through he rotten red teeth about honoring fallen members of the military. What vile POS

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 30, 2016 11:27 AM (45oDG)

258 I have only one problem with Midway. In the final scene where Fonda and Holbrook are standing on the pier, in the background are tourists all dressed in seventies attire. Oh, and the crash scene where Heston dies is a jet.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 11:27 AM (kTF2Z)

259 American traitor and British Brigadier General Benedict Arnold enjoyed his greatest success as a British commander in 1781.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:27 AM (CRXed)

260 Tom Selleck is in the Wake Island scenes. Sans mustache if I recall.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 11:28 AM (kTF2Z)

261 Your friend could very well be right. I was a Patent Examiner in a previous career.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at May 30, 2016 04:13 PM (u82oZ)



I've had considerable involvement with patents, and found examiners to be a mixed bag. Some are very clever. Some, not so much. On the whole I think they do a pretty good job.

The problem arises when they're not desperately familiar with a technology that requires training advanced training to understand in context.

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 11:29 AM (oKE6c)

262 Holy crap, you know who's in Midway? I mean, aside from all the name actors like Charlton Heston and Henry Fonda? Tom Selleck. Just saw his name in the credits. He's a pilot, IIRC. Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 04:25 PM (7qAYi) Selleck on Midway but not a pilot and he's sans stache. Eric Estrada is a pilot in the movie

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 30, 2016 11:29 AM (45oDG)

263 Arnolds 1,600 largely Loyalist troops sailed up the James River at the beginning of January, eventually landing in Westover, Virginia.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:29 AM (CRXed)

264 Crap, Midway not Wake. I'm not even drinking yet.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 30, 2016 11:30 AM (kTF2Z)

265 Obama: Veterans embody 'best of America' And Barry embodies the worst

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 30, 2016 11:30 AM (45oDG)

266 Leaving Westover on the afternoon of January 4, Arnold and his men arrived at the virtually undefended capital city of Richmond the next afternoon. Virginias governor, Thomas Jefferson, had frantically attempted to prepare the city for attack by moving all arms & other Military Stores records from the city to a foundry five miles outside Richmond.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:30 AM (CRXed)

267 Is "Turn: Washington's Spies" any good?

Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 11:32 AM (7qAYi)

268 As news of Arnolds unexpectedly rapid approach reached him, Jefferson then tried to orchestrate their removal to Westham, seven miles further north. He was too late. Arnolds men quickly reached and burned the foundry and then proceeded towards Westham, which Jefferson had asked the formidable Prussian military advisor Baron Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben to guard.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:33 AM (CRXed)

269 #250 Sharkman if you know the unit of your ancestors in the Civil War, you can get their records from the National Archives here;

http://tinyurl.com/zhd85sa

I ordered several, the Pension records can have all kinds of stuff in them. A great, great uncle was killed, his mother had copies of all his letters home to help supporting getting a pension which were included in the file. A great resource.

Posted by: JHW at May 30, 2016 11:33 AM (kn0BL)

270 Finding von Steuben, Arnold chose to return to Richmond, burning much of the city the following morning. Only 200 militiamen responded to Governor Jeffersons call to defend the capital. Most Virginians had already served and therefore thought they were under no further obligation to answer such calls.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:34 AM (CRXed)

271 257 President Obama Calls for True Remembrance of Nation's Fallen Through Actions

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 30, 2016 04:27 PM (45oDG)


And by "actions" he means more violence at Trump campaign events and the passing of a transgender bill of rights.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 11:35 AM (UHKOQ)

272 "Is "Turn: Washington's Spies" any good?" I've watched 4 episodes. Worth watching, even if the action is a little on the slow side. Lots of character development.

Posted by: navybrat at May 30, 2016 11:35 AM (w7KSn)

273 267 Is "Turn: Washington's Spies" any good?
Posted by: Josephistan at May 30, 2016 04:32 PM (7qAYi)


Mrs. Muse and I are enjoying it, but there are about 4-5 plot threads, so you have to pay close attention.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 11:36 AM (UHKOQ)

274 Is "Turn: Washington's Spies" any good?\
=========

I thought the first season was pretty good.  Season two looks promising, but I haven't had time to watch it.

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 11:36 AM (JBggj)

275 President Obama Calls for True Remembrance of Nation's Fallen Through Actions He's the "Atheism Plus" President.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 30, 2016 11:36 AM (6FqZa)

276 Despite this untenable military position, the author of the Declaration of Independence was criticized by some for fleeing Richmond during the crisis. Later, two months after Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown, he was cleared of any wrongdoing during his term as governor.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:36 AM (CRXed)

277 Jefferson went on to become the leader of the Democratic-Republican Party, and his presidential victory over the Federalists is remembered as The Revolution of 1800.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:37 AM (CRXed)

278 Benedict Arnold attempted and failed to establish businesses in Canada and London. He died a pauper on June 14, 1801, and lays buried in his Continental Army uniform at St. Marys Church, Middlesex, London.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:38 AM (CRXed)

279 IIRC, during Washington's first term, the Secretary of State was responsible for patent investigation.  I THINK, at the time, only Congress could approve the patent.  That led to some pretty shady shenanigans.

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 11:38 AM (JBggj)

280 Multiple abc13 sources have identified the suspect in Sunday's west Houston mass shooting as a 25-year-old veteran from California. Dionisio Garza III is from San Bernardino County and served four tours of duty in Afghanistan. He was discharged from active duty in 2014, and doesn't appear to have a criminal history.

Posted by: ThunderB at May 30, 2016 11:40 AM (zOTsN)

281 Ricardo Kill I don't really have much more just what they said there. I am sure it's in some book or other somewhere. But I heard that and thought dammit Chamberlain knew.

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2016 11:40 AM (2Ocf1)

282 A top Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) official took time out of her Memorial Day weekend to stand by her opposition to honoring fallen U.S. soldiers on the holiday and specifically took aim at Muslim-Americans who serve in the U.S. military. For the third year in a row, the executive director of CAIRs San Francisco Bay Area chapter, Zahra Billoo, bashed the U.S. military on the holiday in which we are supposed to thank them for their sacrifices. DEPORT HER

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2016 11:40 AM (Ozsfq)

283 279 IIRC, during Washington's first term, the Secretary of State was responsible for patent investigation. I THINK, at the time, only Congress could approve the patent. That led to some pretty shady shenanigans.
Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 04:38 PM (JBggj)



I thought originally the US basically had a registration, rather than an examination system, much like e.g., Belgium today.

NaCly Dog, is that correct?

Posted by: Jay Guevara [/i][/s][/b] at May 30, 2016 11:41 AM (oKE6c)

284 Despite this untenable military position, the author of the Declaration of Independence was criticized by some for fleeing Richmond during the crisis.
================

That's an understatement   Only mitigated by the fact that Patrick Henry had to beat feet, too.

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 11:41 AM (JBggj)

285 In July 1939 with the invasion of Poland imminent, the Polish cryptographers decided to share their Enigma results with the French and British code breakers. At a meeting in the Kabackie Woods near Pyry just outside Warsaw all was revealed to the utter astonishment of the French and British. The Polish team gave them copies of the German Enigma machine and revealed the details of the Cyclometers, Bombas and Zygalski sheets. http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/virtualbp/poles/poles.htm

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2016 11:43 AM (2Ocf1)

286 President Obama Calls for True Remembrance of Nation's Fallen Through Actions Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 30, 2016 04:27 PM (45oDG) The best action anybody could take would be to bitch slap him all the way back to Kenya.

Posted by: Blano at May 30, 2016 11:45 AM (ICTl5)

287 ...Yeah, early in the war U.S. torpedos didn't ignite. They'd track, but not "go boom."... A John Wayne movie gave a fictionalized version of this. Had a Chief Petty Officer suggest they drop one from a crane to see what was wrong. I ate it up. Didn't realize they were trolling me. They didn't realize they were trolling me. Trolling hadn't been invented.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 11:47 AM (CRXed)

288 Nood up.

Posted by: chiefjaybob, who hates everyone at May 30, 2016 11:49 AM (cgH9o)

289 276 Despite this untenable military position, the author of the Declaration of Independence was criticized by some for fleeing Richmond during the crisis. Later, two months after Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown, he was cleared of any wrongdoing during his term as governor.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 04:36 PM (CRXed)



One should also keep in mind that the people who signed the DOI were also under an indictment for treason and were subject to drawing, hanging, and quartering.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at May 30, 2016 11:49 AM (vvmPQ)

290 Imagine that! A presidential speech that doesn't contain "I', "me" or "my'.

Posted by: Kalifornia Kafir at May 30, 2016 11:51 AM (H4Acv)

291 This isn't Enigma, but here's a poly-alphabetic cipher machine made from Lego pieces:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Poly-Alphabetic-Cipher-Machine/

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2016 11:52 AM (UHKOQ)

292 Mr Aspirin Factory: Thank you. Just waiting to hear the "word" from Mom that the end is near and then she wants me to travel. It's about 250 miles so she wants me to stay up in Seattle and work until we know for sure. Not sure I like that strategy for dealing with my Dad's death, but Mom is the boss so I will defer to her. NaCly Dog: Your cousin who died on picket duty counts in my book. Thanks for the website, JHW. That Park Service site I used does have unit info, so I will definitely use your link.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 30, 2016 11:54 AM (hUPKb)

293 Kristol has to have the most massive, epic case of butthurt I've ever seen. He's just humiliating himself at this point. Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at May 30, 2016 03:59 PM (WlGX+) Speaking of butthurt, Redstate the last couple days seems to be getting worse, if anything. They're downright gleeful over Kristol's announcement.

Posted by: Blano at May 30, 2016 11:54 AM (ICTl5)

294 Debased currency. Suspended habeas corpus. Put his political enemies in jail. (just the ones he could) Porked up the military. Instituted a draft. He also imposed an income tax, long before the 16th made it legal.

Posted by: Fox2! at May 30, 2016 11:57 AM (brIR5)

295 Link in my sig to Guardian article about Jane Fawcett, who just passed away. She was one of the thousands of young women who worked at Bletchley Park, and happened to be the one who decoded the message leading to the sinking of the Bismarck.

Posted by: stace at May 30, 2016 11:57 AM (ozZau)

296 I'm so bored I'm watching a lingerie sewing contest: "testing for even the most dextrous of sewers, requiring precision engineering and some of the smallest pattern pieces ever seen in the sewing room." Hopefully, this will teach me everything I need to know so when the burning times come I'll have a sought after job skill.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 30, 2016 12:55 PM (iQIUe)

297 289 Jay Guevara NaCly Dog, is that correct? Willowed answer. No. There were always some one to look at the patent to see if it made sense. The Patent Office was the only government building not to be burned by the British in 1814. The Superintendent of Patents , William Thornton, convinced the British to spare it. Thornton put himself before a gun aimed at the building, and exclaimed: "Are you Englishmen or only Goths and Vandals? This is the Patent Office, a depository of the ingenuity of the American nation, in which the whole civilized world is interested. Would you destroy it? If so, fire away, and let the charge pass through my body." Ironically, all the records and models were lost in the Patent Fire of 1836.

Posted by: NaCly Dog [/i] at May 30, 2016 01:21 PM (u82oZ)

298 My roots are lost prior to 1820. I've traced back until then, through Arkansas to Tennessee. But, the British burned the TN census repository during the 1812 unpleasantries. I mighta been a Mayflowerder...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at May 30, 2016 02:23 PM (4DCSq)

299 No. There were always some one to look at the patent to see if it made sense.
=========

Yes, sort of.

The 1790 Act required that patent approval required the concurrence of at least two out of three specified secretaries:  State, Justice, and War.

The 1793 Patents Act streamlined the process somewhat with the application submitted to the Secretary of State, who then passed it on to the Secretary of Justice for examination.

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 02:30 PM (JBggj)

300 "makes this code nearly impossible to break" by amateurs. If he sent 10,000 messages a day it could be broken by professionals in WW2. Without computers but with a skilled staff. They did such things with tactical codes which were more complex than this. Still a Lego encryption machine is a neat impractical toy.

Posted by: huh? at May 30, 2016 02:54 PM (CRXed)

301 Secretary of Justice for examination.
======
US Attorney General.  blech ...

Posted by: mrp at May 30, 2016 06:33 PM (JBggj)

302 I guess it's appropriate for lincoln to be lauded on Memorial day since he put more American's in their graves than any other president.

Posted by: Case, Mors Semper Tyrannis at May 31, 2016 12:28 AM (Z4hTv)

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