June 30, 2006

Super International Man
— Ace

The Hollywood Reporter.

Apologism from the Al Qaeda Intelligence Service.

What Would Tyler Durden Do had this a couple of days ago, as did the Influence Peddler.

I didn't link any of this because, to me, it was like Berkeley voting to impeach Bush. Sort of a dog bites man. What did you expect? It's a bunch of very anti-American Hollywood art-fags* who are uncomfortable with patriotism. And who, in fact, despise anyone who is remotely patriotic.

But a lot of people want to discuss it, so here.

Thanks to Roy for the AQIS tip. Thanks to whole bunches of people for mentioning the basic story.

* Yeah, Bryan Singer is gay, but that's not really what I mean by "art-fag."

Thumb In The Eye: It occurs to me that this was a deliberate provocation, or at least a deliberate attempt to make Superman repudiate America.

I know, big deduction: the writers say as much.

But I guess my point is that there was no need to have this line in the film at all. I don't remember it from the various Superman movies; it's a hard bit of dialogue to work in, isn't it? It began as a narrator's exposition about Superman; it's hard to actually work in Superman declaring he fights for truth, justice, and the American way, isn't it? Even if one agrees with the sentiment, and conceives as Superman fighting for those goals, it's a bit... well, bombastic. Usually heroes aren't so immodest. Even the godlike ones.

So, if the writers didn't like the line, there was an obvious way to avoid it: Just don't include it. No one would have missed it.

But they spoofed the line in a not terribly funny break-the-fourth-wall sort of joke, and then compounded that by announcing the politics behind their decision.

Why? Why not just not feature the line at all?

Because, as usual, they feel that being high-paid entertainers in a glamorous industry just isn't enough. They have to send messages, too.

Why can't they just make movies, instead of contriving manifestos?


Posted by: Ace at 08:26 AM | Comments (165)
Post contains 350 words, total size 2 kb.

1 The more important question, Ace: Are you going to boycott it?

Posted by: shawn at June 30, 2006 08:30 AM (yp3GE)

2 I love comic books, but I know I'm boycotting this ode to the European way for sure. I love how Hollywood hires a Brit to handle an American icon and lecture us about how the word "American" is now a slur. At least now I can see why the critics love this movie so much.

I think every conservative should boycott this.

Posted by: T. at June 30, 2006 08:35 AM (5YMbd)

3 Eff Superman!

He's not even in this country legally!

I am not going to get all excited about some damn illegal immigrant who is willing to fight supervillians cheaper than good, real, American Superhero's like Captian America or Batman or Spiderman!

Damn Kyptony bastard

Posted by: Reddish Jode at June 30, 2006 08:35 AM (KeOQp)

4 He is the New International Man of Mystery. C'ya Austin.

Posted by: Scott at June 30, 2006 08:37 AM (f8958)

5 Reddish Jode,
Superman is just doing a job Americans wont do.

Posted by: Tushar D at June 30, 2006 08:37 AM (h76y6)

6 I heard he gets a beret in the sequel.

Posted by: T. at June 30, 2006 08:38 AM (5YMbd)

7 I'm amazed they didn't call him Superperson. And instead of putting red-booted foot to bad-guy ass, he's mooning over Lois, who not only shanked him with a tell-all book (which won a Pulitzer, natch) but shacked up with another guy about two seconds after he was out the door. And what the hell is up with that plum-colored cape? The cape is red, you douchebags.

I'll probably buy it when it comes out on DVD, but I'm not gonna bust my ass to see it in the theater.

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 08:44 AM (/V4PN)

8 So, Superman Returns is a quasi-sequel to Superman II, yet something tells me there'd never be a scene like that at the end of #2 when Supes flies to the White House to return the American flag.

Sigh.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at June 30, 2006 08:51 AM (4P9aC)

9 One quibble. Superman isn't an illegal immigrant according to the original history. The spaceship held him in a pre-born state until he crash-landed in Kansas, allowing him to be born here on earth. Siegel knew US law and wanted Supes to be a bona fide american citizen. Or at least a Kryptonian anchor baby.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at June 30, 2006 08:56 AM (7iTO9)

10 So, Superman Returns is a quasi-sequel to Superman II, yet something tells me there'd never be a scene like that at the end of #2 when Supes flies to the White House to return the American flag.

It's just that kind of faux-patriotism that makes me SICK! SICK, I tell you.

Posted by: Janeane Garofoolo at June 30, 2006 08:57 AM (AQGeh)

11 Completely O/T, but I just saw my first "Snakes on a Plane" trailer on TV!

Posted by: lqdlvr at June 30, 2006 08:59 AM (dW4dz)

12 ace, you might not really mean gay when you say artfag, but it's clear by the usage of the term that it's meant as a pejorative. now yer fairly witty and have a more than ample vocabulary. would you have used the term artnigger? what about artkike? artcunt? there are plenty of terms that express your feeling without degrading anyone. i share your sentiment toward hollywood, but deplore your terminology.

Posted by: papalovesmambo at June 30, 2006 09:19 AM (py2Hq)

13 That post was gay.

Posted by: Scott at June 30, 2006 09:22 AM (f8958)

14 There actually was an "alternate universe" history of Superman called Red Son where the baby Kal-El dropped down in Soviet Russia rather than in Kansas. The comic didn't really work for me -- Superman is American, the distilled essence of what Americanism is. He is a small-town American boy, a true believer in Truth, Justice, and the American way.

If you want brooding angst, tortured agonizing, and moral dilemmas, you got Batman. If you want purity of heart, wholesome goodness, and stalwart strength, you got your Superman.

But the filmmakers are afraid that the movie won't play well overseas if Supes is too American, so they give him a metrosexual make-over and flounce him out with some stupid looking plum-and-blueberry outfit. He's not an agent of America but of the world, don't you know.

Gah! The more I think about this the more it angries up my blood.

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 09:22 AM (UdJCa)

15 WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I'm offended.

Posted by: papalovesmandingo at June 30, 2006 09:23 AM (AQGeh)

16 Funny, the NYT made the same argument for the "under God" phrase in the Pledge.

Posted by: ArtKike at June 30, 2006 09:28 AM (GzHh/)

17 Actually, I think the line was in the original movie, where Margot Kidder is wearing this horrible gauzy frock and interviewing Superman on her apartment patio-in-the-sky.

Posted by: lauraw at June 30, 2006 09:35 AM (Vz8hp)

18 I've even heard some theorizing that the original Superman was Jewish (or explicitly Judeo-Christian, anyway).

Consider: Kal El, son of Jor El. This follows the Jewish tradition of the Archangels of God: Micha El (Michael), Gabra El (Gabriel), Uri El (Uriel), Umbra El (Umbriel).

From what I understand, the new movie plays up the God/Son of God thing (although in a very New Age-y kind of way).

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 09:35 AM (UdJCa)

19 > The spaceship held him in a pre-born state until he crash-landed in Kansas, allowing him to be born here on earth.

So I'm guessing the next step in Superman revisionism will just be a five-minute short of Mrs. Kent crushing Clark Doe's skull with forceps before he's fully emerged from the escape pod.

Posted by: Guy T. at June 30, 2006 09:36 AM (j02xJ)

20 Hey, man, it's called a choice!

Posted by: Ma Kent at June 30, 2006 09:39 AM (AQGeh)

21 Dougherty and Harris never even considered including "the American way" in their screenplay ... they intentionally omitted what they considered to be a loaded and antiquated expression.

I'd like to acquaint them with another loaded and antiquated expression -- Go bugger yourselves, Euroweenies.

Posted by: brian at June 30, 2006 09:40 AM (BBZtG)

22 The effrontery of these sad sacks to steal a bit of American pop culture and claim it for the world opens the gates for stealing the cultural icons of other nations - something liberals have fought for years. It's typical that while insisting that we respect the integriy of other cultures, they don't step up to defend ours.

Posted by: geoff at June 30, 2006 09:46 AM (nH1Ad)

23 I don't know, I can't say I really cared that they took out "the American way" part. Though as Ace said, it was probably a deliberate omission. So I guess the principle of the thing is what irks me at all. I guess you could say I question the timing.

Side note, off topic. If any comic book fans are not reading the monthly Marvel comic Civil War, then you need to. It kicks some serious ass.

Posted by: T&A at June 30, 2006 09:47 AM (CWAwi)

24 I don't think that they'd lose money or viewers for having the mention of Truth, Justice, and the American Way in a movie anywhere. But the globalist idiots who hate patriotism couldn't stand it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 30, 2006 09:52 AM (Pwzb0)

25 Truth, justice and the American way.

Oh, how unsophisticated. Let us mock it and prove that we're far too smart these days to harbor anything but contempt and cynicism toward such trite expressions of jingoism.

Tradition is mindless acceptance of a surely unjust past. Simplism is ignorance. History began this morning when I rolled out of bed. Context is for fools who cling to a dated worldview. Worship at the altar of iconoclasm or be sacrificed upon it. My eyes shall be the final arbiter; for this very moment is the alpha and omega.

That'll be $8.50 please. Concessions to your right.

Sincerely,
Art Cunt

Posted by: The Warden at June 30, 2006 09:55 AM (8WTw1)

26 Marvel comic
kicks some serious ass

Paradox. Marvel comics cannot, by definition, kick ass. They are the weak-kneed red-headed stepchildren of DC Comics. The best they can manage is a weak kick to the shin.

And further to Ace's statement about "contriving manifestoes": Hollywood is no longer about producing movies that people want to see. It is about convincing people to like the movies they make, and the returns on this particular strategy aren't that good.

More and more people are simply doing something else -- there are a lot of entertainment options out there. Ultimately the market will win out (as it always does).

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 09:55 AM (/V4PN)

27 I actually just saw the movie, and the line was inoffensive and said by the newspaper editor in a long list of other newspaper type cliche barnstorming. I loved the movie, and didn't notice any PC anti-American crap in it. Of course, it was hard to concentrate with the hottest Superman on the screen that I have ever seen. Whoa! I forgive the moviemakers for everything for subjecting me to that fine speciman of masculinity. And he was oozing sexiness, not gayness. My gaydar did not go off once. I may need a cold shower after this post.

My geek husband loved it. Go see it, and ignore all the stupid hoopla, which I don't think was warranted in this case. It fits the Ace of Spades lifestyle.

{I am not being paid for this review.}
{But I will take money for any future reviews.}

Posted by: Stormy70 at June 30, 2006 09:58 AM (YRPBe)

28 Wait, "artcunt" is a bad thing?

Who the hell does that offend? Cunts?

C'mon, cunts deserve to get offended-- they're cunts.

Cheers,
Dave at Garifield Ridge

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at June 30, 2006 09:58 AM (4P9aC)

29 Meh. Hardly surprising.

Posted by: Sean M. at June 30, 2006 09:59 AM (dc5zY)

30 I'm surprised they even used the Truth and Justice part. Aren't those concepts, ya know, subjective?

Who's to say who's truth is really the truth? And Justice? Please!! How quaint.

Posted by: Arthur Nigger at June 30, 2006 09:59 AM (AQGeh)

31 I know! "They" should cast an American as a British icon-hero like Sherlock Holmes or James Bond.

That'd learn 'em.

(I was going to say "European icon-hero," but I don't think the Continent has any. At least, none cool enough for Americans to want to portray.)

And as far as Kal-El being illegal, I thought he was placed in the capsule as a baby. I don't know if he had ID or anything.

Anyway. A) Were the Kents supposed to call INS and have him sent back? It's not the baby's fault his parents abandoned him. B) If someone finds an apparently Mexican baby abandoned in the Southwest, wouldn't he (or she) get adopted by Americans, if there was no missing infant report? (And if he looks Caucasian, woudl they even think to ask Mexico?)

What rankles me more that he's an alien lecturing us Humans about our culture. His parents and their pals blew up their own planet. You know how hard it is to blow up a planet? Hard. You gotta work at it.

Who's the superior race now, Kal? Durr. (And we don't wimp out when exposed to parts of our world.)

Posted by: Some Guy at June 30, 2006 09:59 AM (lPxkl)

32 Naw, back when I was reading them (1978 - 1990), DC almost universally sucked compared to Marvel; Batman and Teen Titans being exceptions. DC seemed to come late to the idea that superheros could be conflicted and burdened with troubles.

Posted by: geoff at June 30, 2006 10:01 AM (nH1Ad)

33 Truth to power, open borders and a living wage!

Posted by: The Warden at June 30, 2006 10:07 AM (8WTw1)

34 But I guess my point is that there was no need to have this line in the film at all.

Yes, there was. Superman is American. He fights for the American Way. Admit it. You've seen the film.

Posted by: shawn at June 30, 2006 10:09 AM (yp3GE)

35 In the first Christopher Reeves Superman movie, Superman gives Lois Lane a rooftop interview in which she asks him "Why are you here?" Superman answers, "To fight for truth, justice, and the American Way."

Booyah.

That's what Superman's all about, Charlie Brown.

Posted by: at June 30, 2006 10:14 AM (kKjaJ)

36 Truth, Justice and a nice apple kugel, ya know, with just a hint of cinnamon, boyo, let me tell you, that is the stuff.

Posted by: SuperJew at June 30, 2006 10:18 AM (AQGeh)

37 Of course, it was hard to concentrate with the hottest Superman on the screen that I have ever seen.

Damned right out of Stormy70's own mouth. This is a chick-flick. It's Jerry Maguire in a Superman outfit. Flee! Flee!

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 10:25 AM (/V4PN)

38 If the writers hadn't made the comments they did, I probably would have found their treatment of the famous line cute in a postmodern kind of way.

But since they clearly indicate that the international nox office receipts is more important than patriotic pride to them, well, let the international boxoffice line their pockets.

While our soldiers risk their lives to keep them safe.

Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at June 30, 2006 10:28 AM (r4tHQ)

39 Let's just re-write it to say, "Truth, Justice and The Saudi Way"...in this version Superman goes around making sure women can't vote or drive.

Or, "Truth, Justice and The Chinese Way"...The Man of Steal becomes an internet censor making sure that people who want to live in freedom are hunted down by the Chinese government. Instead of an S on his suit it will be either a G for Google, MS for Microsoft or Y! for Yahoo!

Perhaps it could be "Truth, Justice and the UN Way"...in this version Superman helps the UN steal money meant for food and medicine and funnels it to France, Russia and the Secretary General of the UN's son. When that's done, he helps UN peacekeepers rape the people they are supposed to be protecting. Obviously the S is replaced with UN.

These fucking hate America liberals (yeah, that's right bitches, I just questioned your patriotism) are always quick to kick this country but never tell you who they like better or if they point to the UN or EU conveniently leave our the dark underbelly of corruption and tyranny.

Screw 'em.

Posted by: Drew at June 30, 2006 10:30 AM (Y2fNF)

40 Not being a superman follower, the first things I think of when superman is mentioned are superman jokes.

The Lois Lane, Superman and Invisible man joke kills.

I also like the observation joke about Superman ducking when the bad guy throws his just emptied gun at Superman.

Posted by: at June 30, 2006 10:36 AM (m2CN7)

41 Are you kidding Monty? Everyone out there knows that DC is the Burger King and Pepsi to Marvel's McDonald's and Coke. DC fans are even considered geeks among the comic book geeks. Spider-Man 2 had double the opening day gross as Superman in its July 4 opening, America has spoken. :p

Posted by: T. at June 30, 2006 10:36 AM (5YMbd)

42 You know what would be cool?

If Superman comes back from visiting his blown-up home planet and finds out that Lex Luthor has been released and that Lois Lane has totally shafted him for some pencil-neck and written a poison-pen book about him and has a kid who might or might not be his. So Superman melts the pencil-neck with his heat vision, drop-kicks Lois's cheating ass into the Sun, and launches the kid into space in a spacecraft so he can be some other planet's Superman (thereby avoiding any future competition from the little punk should he turn out to be Superman's biological kid). Then Superman could challenge Lex to a hand-to-hand throwdown, swearing he won't use his superpowers -- then, when Lex agrees to the battle, he laughs mockingly and tears Lex limb from limb with his super-strength (being careful to do it at the North Pole where there are no media people about). Then he'd come back to America and announce sorrowfully that Lex was eaten by a polar bear, who was starving because of global warming.

In the real crowd-pleaser finale, he'd hunt down Osama bin Laden with his X-Ray vision and fly him directly to the Supermax prison in Colorado.

Yeah. That would be cool.

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 10:38 AM (/V4PN)

43 I dunno, I kinda always thought Superman was "for humanity", and that he only identified himself as American because America is too. In other words, he was American not in name, but in deed. Suck on that, patchouli stank.

As regards his immigration status, Superman would be A-ok as long as he never complied with the law or made any effort to contribute to American society. He'd have thousands of liberals climbing over themselves to rip money out of my pocket to build him work centers, give him medical care, and require every ballot to be reprinted in Kryptonian.

If, on the other hand, he did things the legal way like my wife (who still tears up upon hearing the national anthem) he'd find himself standing in line for 14 hours at the immigration office to get a green card, only to be turned away and told he didn't get there early enough.

Posted by: Tom at June 30, 2006 10:51 AM (kvY/O)

44 What Drew and Monty said. I'd pay to see those.

Posted by: Roy at June 30, 2006 10:52 AM (2XXia)

45 Who's the superior race now, Kal? Durr. (And we don't wimp out when exposed to parts of our world.)

Say that next time a 12" bat hunting centipede crawls over your foot.

Posted by: Scott at June 30, 2006 10:57 AM (f8958)

46 I haven't seen the movie, but I have read the book. The thing that bothered me about the book was it was trying to put Lois Lane in a sympathetic light, but it just didn't work for me.

She's a career obsessed woman shacked up with her son's father (not married, of course). Loves the kid for a few minutes each day before shoving him to the side to get on with her work. Spoiler for Warning:

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic Art Nazi at June 30, 2006 10:57 AM (JKlMI)

47 Trackback didn't take.

Enjoy.

Top Ten Signs Superman Is No Longer An American.

Posted by: The Colossus at June 30, 2006 10:57 AM (G4rp8)

48 **PR STUNT ALERT PR STUNT ALERT**

They've got us talking about what seems to be a lazy, franchise product. (They spent $60 million hiring and firing writers and directors for this movie BEFORE they spent $200 million to actually make the dang thing.)

I note again that the producers staged an A&E special on Superman last night in which "he's an immigrant" was shoehorned in three times over the two-hour program. They desperately want "controversy." Not that we shouldn’t call them on the fact that they are overtly injecting left wing politics (surprise) into yet another movie. That’s the point…I think we should look beyond the specifics (promoting illegal immigrants and snickering at the notion of “the American way” ) and make them defend the overt, last-minute addition of politics.

Posted by: CJ at June 30, 2006 10:58 AM (9KqcB)

49 Wait-- you read a novelization of a movie based on a comic book?

My brain just did an Escher-like turnover in the pan.

Dude, reading the novelization and skipping the movie is like surfing porn and skipping the sex.

Geek.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at June 30, 2006 11:02 AM (4P9aC)

50 Dave, my geekage is unrivaled. I was going to Dr. Who conventions before they were... uh... acceptably geeky?

I've also read the script for Psycho and never saw the movie.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic Art Nazi at June 30, 2006 11:11 AM (JKlMI)

51 CJ:

Kid thought I might (Supe's cape is red, you jagoffs, not plum), the whole "anti-American" angle is admittedly a thin reed. I'm just bustin'.

The producers are desperately trying to make this movie palatable to foreign audiences, because that's where they're hoping to make the bulk of their profits. (It'd be interesting to see what they do in the translations from English to, say, French -- or Chinese.)

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 11:12 AM (/V4PN)

52 If you can't tell Hollywood to go stick it on this stupid comic book remake movie, then you're worthless.

Posted by: shawn at June 30, 2006 11:21 AM (yp3GE)

53 Who's the superior race now, Kal? Durr. (And we don't wimp out when exposed to parts of our world.)

Say that next time a 12" bat hunting centipede crawls over your foot.


Heh. Mostly I meant that I never understood the Kryptonite thing. Maybe there's a decent-ish explanation that I never heard.

1) Kryptonians on Krypton (so I gather) didn't have superpowers. Only Kal-El does, because of Sol's rays. This actually makes some sense, in a comic book way. (OTOH, I do like the idea of the Planet of the Capes from Disney's old Darkwing Duck show. Everyone was a superhero, except for Ordinary Man, who everyone was constantly saving.)

2) Krypton exploded, and its chunky remnants are called Kryptonite, which weakens Superman terribly. This I don't get. Okay, if it had some radiation or some reverse- something (or even if not, kinda) I can see it counteracting Sol's "yellow rays" and stripping him of his powers, rendering him functionally human. Not doubled over in pain and unable to act.

3) Shouldn't Kryptonite have some effect on humans? Like, hurt us, or give us some superness? Or taste good in a salad?

That being said, the superhero genre doesn't really work for me. I'd like to see a storyline in which A) a single, prominent superhero's secret identity gets exposed publicly, and he has to get a new one, or adapt, or fake his deaths, or something. (Spiderman outing himself, I think, doesn't really cut it. And I would hope that this has been done and I never heard of it.) Or B), in which there's some realism in terms of costuming, or living a double life, or something. I think Marvel's New Universe was an attempt at some of it, but I dunno. (If there was a costumed vigilante running around, what would happen in real life? And why would anyone plan a crime in Gotham or Metropolis, when they know somecaped crusader's gonna show up? Move to some city without a superhero. Or does every city get one? Are they elected?)

Basically, I'd like to see some cliches mocked and/or really explored.

So, in summation, A) I'm hard to please, B) I'm sorry about the attempted threadjack, and C) I'm really bored.

Posted by: Some Guy at June 30, 2006 11:26 AM (lPxkl)

54 I think that the next movie will be Captain America. Except, it can't be Captain, because that sounds too militaristic, so it'd be State Trooper America. Except it can't be that, because it is still reflective of a hegemonic concept of the nation state, so it'll be changed into State Trooper United Nations.
So it'd be like Team America, only sucky.

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at June 30, 2006 11:31 AM (Kz30m)

55 Yes, Virginia, Superman is still American. No matter what self-important Eurotrash-wannabe screenwriters say, no matter what global media elite-wannabe press agents do, he is the closest thing we have to a mythic hero. Superman is the embodiment of America. He wears our colors and he acts out our beliefs. Like America, he shrugs off that kind of ideological spitball, barely noticing because he's too busy doing the important jobs like saving the world.

We can safely ignore this kind of garbage, too. The screenwriters have forgotten something: this character is bigger than they are. _They can't change him_. Even if they try. All they can produce is an inferior depiction. Americans know what Superman is like.

Posted by: Trimegistus at June 30, 2006 11:41 AM (Q/Uol)

56 Safety Officer America?
Protection Officer America?

Posted by: shawn at June 30, 2006 11:45 AM (yp3GE)

57 Kal-el was a native of Krypton, adopted by the Kents of Smallville KS. He would have had dual citizenship until his 18th birthday, at which time he presumably declared himself as American.

So I feel Superman is an American citizen.

Posted by: Barry at June 30, 2006 11:49 AM (kKjaJ)

58 The entire movie looks like a rip-off of the original Superman movie, with a Gene Hackman-like Luthor, the origin of Superman AGAIN, and even a cameo by Marlon Brando !! lol....I thought Singer would have come up with something better than this. Does the movie even explain where Supes has been for five years? They should have had a different villain in there, like Brainiac or Bizarro. Bring in Luthor at the end, like Batman Begins did with The Joker.

Posted by: Will at June 30, 2006 11:57 AM (ASbRK)

59 Christopher Reeve not only said "Truth, Justice and the American way", he sold it in that perfectly honest way he had with the character of Superman.

There has not been a better Superman before; there will not be one again. Just get Superman I & II on DVD and treasure them.

Posted by: rho at June 30, 2006 12:09 PM (VMQj4)

60 M. Night Shyamalamadingdong did a pretty interesting take on the superhero mythos with Unbreakable. If you're interested in the "what if superheroes were real" thing, this is a good movie to watch. And unlike most of M Night's other movies, it doesn't completely suck.

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 12:09 PM (YbD2t)

61 The comic didn't really work for me -- Superman is American, the distilled essence of what Americanism is. He is a small-town American boy, a true believer in Truth, Justice, and the American way.

I keep crawling back to ace's joint for the nonpereil kultur critique. Like turning to Michael Medved for assessments of anal fuck films. You always know what you'll get.

So, which part of the American Way, monty? The genocide of indigenes, slavery, hiroshima, dresden, vietnam, cambodia, guatamala, iraq, guantanamo, abu ghraib, haditha, falluhja, jeff foxworthy, or superbowl halftime shows?

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 12:44 PM (jUNKz)

62 There isn't any political stuff in the movie at all. If you get past the first half hour of needless backgrounding, the movie is extremely enjoyable even for a two and half hour flick. The special effects are very good as is the score. The dialogue is sometime lacking and there are plotholes in an otherwise enjoyable storyline. Routh is very good as Superman. I was never a Reeve fan myself. I don't understand why the critcs are so against Kate Bosworth. She was most excellent and acted heads above anything Kidder ever did for what she was given by the writers and that of course includes Singer. It wasn't written with the same underplayed humor as the "original" so many years ago. Bosworth and Routh have pretty good chemistry. The only negative for me was Spacey's Lex Luthor. I just don't like Spacey. Parker Posey was OK as his Kitty. There were youngs kids in the audience with me and a bunch of other oldies. Everyone seemed to enjoy it. I'm looking forward to a sequel with the same characters.

Posted by: Laddy at June 30, 2006 12:54 PM (8ZKvS)

63 So, which part of the American Way, monty?

The part where you learn how to spell.

Posted by: shawn at June 30, 2006 12:55 PM (yp3GE)

64 The director has gone out of his way to give the film an offensive anti-American flourish; the least courtesy I can pay him is to believe his stated intent and stay the fuck away.

Pardon my language, I just finished season two of Deadwood and I'm still in full Sweringen mode.

Posted by: Piazzagrrl at June 30, 2006 01:26 PM (L9iEN)

65 papalovesmambo

About the whole "fag" thing here. Ace has already produced a prolegomenon to a future civilization reduced to the self-declared reasonable interests of Ace himself--a kind of sociological monadism, or existential positivism. The crucial analysis occured several months ago when Ace asked the question: why would dudes like dudes? His answer was pure genius: no dude could like a dude, when women are so soft & pretty. Don't you see? Sexuality can only be explained by the cause(s) of Ace's hard little dick.

Sociology is easy. Plug & play, you faggot.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 01:30 PM (jUNKz)

66 So, which part of the American Way, monty? The genocide of indigenes, slavery, hiroshima, dresden, vietnam, cambodia, guatamala, iraq, guantanamo, abu ghraib, haditha, falluhja, jeff foxworthy, or superbowl halftime shows?

I'm not Monty, but I'm going to say "Jeff Foxworthy." ROWR

Posted by: Victoria at June 30, 2006 01:32 PM (v2tO4)

67 Genocide is apple pie. Bombs bursting in air.

80 million indigenes
500.000 filipinos
1 million central american indigenes
500,000 east cambodians
1 million + japanese civilians & 1/2 millon german civilians
150,000 iraqis

Mom, apple pie.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 01:39 PM (jUNKz)

68 Have a nice 4th of July!!!

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 01:40 PM (jUNKz)

69 Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with sucking dicks or receiving anal sex. I do it all the time. I'm saying that those who assail others for these acts just don't know what they're missing. It's incredibly exhilarating!

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 01:42 PM (My+2n)

70 Be proud of who you is, dead indian.

Posted by: Son of Sigmund at June 30, 2006 01:44 PM (My+2n)

71 dead injun

yes, that American way.

Which also happens to be the American way that has cured dozens of debilitating or deadly diseases, brought the number of functioning democracies from a handful to a large majority in 100 years, supports and expands the best quality of life the world has ever known, and makes your life of wallowing in self-pity and guilt not only possible, but protected.

Art-fag.

(Yeah, I'm back, for this afternoon at least)

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 01:47 PM (p1s9n)

72 dead indian-

You are a sad idiot.

You are festering in your own self-loathing.

Posted by: Clark Kent at June 30, 2006 01:48 PM (UYhye)

73 subermain ain't chit....i'd take im down wit my un good arm tied behind my back.

Posted by: Handiman at June 30, 2006 01:49 PM (My+2n)

74 Sent to askeditors@dccomics.com:

Subject: Superman: truth, justice and all that stuff

This story in the Hollywood Reporter quotes the writers of the new Superman movie as saying that Superman no longer stands for "the American way".

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/film_reporter_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002764635

For me, this goes against everything this character is about. I was looking forward to seeing this film until I read this story. Now, I will just wait for it on Netflix. How could DC Comics allow a couple of ideological hacks inject their anti-American views into the Superman franchise?

I hope it was a REALLY big check.

Posted by: Tyrtle at June 30, 2006 01:49 PM (fDEs+)

75 hodgoblin

And all it took for america to be so beautiful as one such as you was slavery & genocide.

But that's "history."

Yeah. Where would we be without the miracles of medicine made by Jenner, Mendel, Curie, Harvey, Pasteur, Lister...oh, sorry.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 01:55 PM (jUNKz)

76 80 million indigenes
500.000 filipinos
1 million central american indigenes
500,000 east cambodians
1 million + japanese civilians & 1/2 millon german civilians
150,000 iraqis


WILDLY inflated numbers, but who cares unless you're one of them

They ain't Americans.

How about Stalin: 60,000,000
Mao: 30,000,000
Pol Pot: 2,000,000
Ho Chi Mihn: 1,000,000
Hitler: 11,000,000

Good collectivist leftists, all. Be proud of your ethnocentric socialism, injun. It's the best social construct the world has ever seen (for killing mass amounts of humanity)

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 01:56 PM (p1s9n)

77 We're such good people. Except you, you faggot.

aos "lifestyle."

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 01:57 PM (jUNKz)

78 dead indian,

It was slavery and genocide that made today's Democratic Party possible. I am sure Howard Dean, John Kerry, Ted Kenedy, and all of the other white liberals appreciate your sacrifice and support. On their behalf, I would like to say, "Thanks, suckers!"

Posted by: Sparky at June 30, 2006 01:58 PM (fDEs+)

79 hobgoblin

Just sayin'. Next time you pull daddy's dick out of your mouth long enough to look lovingly in his eyes, remember who's butt fucking you in yer mouth.

America is built on blood. Read Blood Meridian. Great 4th of July book.

All that America Is Great is pure pussy talk.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:01 PM (jUNKz)

80 the good fighter is never angry, injun.

If you packum heapum big stinkum in the rectum, you prolly don't wanna be calling folks faggots. though it does take a pretty thin skin to get riled up about such a pathetic insult. pretty dense on the sacasm-meter, too, it seems.

c'mon, is that the best you got?

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 02:04 PM (p1s9n)

81 they aint americans

Yes, indeed. Our marines will make sure of that.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:07 PM (jUNKz)

82 "Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with sucking dicks or receiving anal sex. I do it all the time. I'm saying that those who assail others for these acts just don't know what they're missing. It's incredibly exhilarating!"-dead indian

Me boy good too...he love me long time

Posted by: dead indian daddy at June 30, 2006 02:07 PM (My+2n)

83 Hobgoblin--great to see you back here, if you ever left.

Dead Indian--as a live Indian, and a proud American, let me wholeheartedly request that you get the hell over yourself, kemo sobby.

Posted by: See-Dubya at June 30, 2006 02:08 PM (RqyAt)

84 What, you mean calling a gay man a faggot is just a pathetic insult?

Thanks for the clarification. I thought calling people faggots was the aos lifestyle?

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:09 PM (jUNKz)

85 dead indian look lovingly in my eyes after he suckem me long time

Posted by: Happy Buffalo at June 30, 2006 02:11 PM (My+2n)

86 The american indian was slaughtered, proud american.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:11 PM (jUNKz)

87 I assure you I am very much alive, fat, and happy, Iron Eyes.

Posted by: See-Dub at June 30, 2006 02:13 PM (RqyAt)

88 ALL nations are founded on blood. From Jericho to Lake Trasimene, the Sack of Rome to Agincourt, from the Somme and Ardenne to Iwo Jima and Fallujah, ALL nations are built on blood.

Your pathetic sensitivites are those only possessed by a certain type of sheltered delicate flower of the art-fag type, or by a child.

The measure of a nation is not how it rises, but how it acts once it is secure. If you're sad about the dead indians, you are conveniently overlooking how most tribes (especially in the northeast and great lakes) brutalized settlers. So, too, western apaches and navajo. THey fought us, we fought back. They lost. Boo-fucking-hoo. Only an insipid college freshman or someone with no sense of history claims indians lived at peace with all.

Gasbag.

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 02:16 PM (p1s9n)

89 My mom's family came to America in answer to an ad to exterminate Comanches for the Spanish Crown. They were very prosperous in their pursuit.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at June 30, 2006 02:17 PM (OA5Ca)

90 See-dub

yeah, I've been needing to work a little harder for the last year or so. Still need to, but was wanting to stop by. Nice to see things ain't changed much

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 02:19 PM (p1s9n)

91 See-Dub

Notice you've latched on nicely to the Ace school of monadic sociology in which all history is stripped down to the details of your dubious existence.

Who cares how many are mudered, when the only universe worth defending is the one revolving around your head.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:19 PM (jUNKz)

92 Where's that fucking resident rightwing historian when you need him? Can't remember his handle. Dumb guy. Big words.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:21 PM (jUNKz)

93 This "dead indian" fellow seems redolent of another troll we used to get -- can't recall the name. The same fey snottiness, the same talent for the non sequitur and the leaden turn of phrase. Someone help me out here....

...but really, what's the point? If we can set this retard off like this just by using the word "fag", imagine the heights we can drive him to by using other derogatory terms!

Hey, "dead indian": I find you physically repulsive! Your stench raises the hackles of dogs in the next town! You are very poor! I find your sartorial sense lacking! Your ties often clash with your shirts! I find your unseemly affection for rodents and small birds disturbing! You tend to confuse condescension for wit! Your metaphors are strained, your similes labored, and your overall prose line is fairly pedestrian!

And you don't like Superman because you think Shazam is the shit. Admit it. You see yourself in the Billy Batson role.

There. I said it. I said it and I'm glad.

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 02:25 PM (gNsVO)

94 Nice to be a son of extermninators.

I see now more clearly how the genocide of arabs, commencing in Gaza and elsewhere, will be justified by you.

You're an evil fuck, hobgoblin. I only hope some here will see you for who you are.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:26 PM (jUNKz)

95 I got my Ph.D from the Ace School of Monadic Sociology, Professor Churchill. Or, I guess that should just be Mister Churchill, now.

My existence is not actually in much doubt, and therefore not at all dubious, Sesquipedalian Elk.

Posted by: See-Dubya at June 30, 2006 02:26 PM (RqyAt)

96 Dead gay indians? Ace, what have you done with this place?

Posted by: Gordon at June 30, 2006 02:27 PM (8WL8T)

97 Never Off Topic: America rules.

Posted by: ZRyan at June 30, 2006 02:27 PM (LiJvd)

98 Ends justify means. You suck.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:27 PM (jUNKz)

99 AMERICA RULES I SAID!!!!

Posted by: ZRyan at June 30, 2006 02:28 PM (LiJvd)

100 F*ck Yeah! (Izzat what you wanted?)

Posted by: Gordon at June 30, 2006 02:30 PM (8WL8T)

101 Let's just re-write it to say, "Truth, Justice and The Saudi Way"...in this version Superman goes around making sure women can't vote or drive.

Or, "Truth, Justice and The Chinese Way"...The Man of Steal becomes an internet censor making sure that people who want to live in freedom are hunted down by the Chinese government. Instead of an S on his suit it will be either a G for Google, MS for Microsoft or Y! for Yahoo!

Perhaps it could be "Truth, Justice and the UN Way"...in this version Superman helps the UN steal money meant for food and medicine and funnels it to France, Russia and the Secretary General of the UN's son. When that's done, he helps UN peacekeepers rape the people they are supposed to be protecting. Obviously the S is replaced with UN.Greatest comment ever. Should have its own archive entry.

(Though Monty's soon after is pretty good too.)

Speaking of nutty leftists making movies, anyone seen Strangers with Candy?

Posted by: someone at June 30, 2006 02:30 PM (LS1TS)

102 Monty, seriously, you're dumb. You have no business having an opinion about anything.

Posted by: dead indian at June 30, 2006 02:30 PM (jUNKz)

103 Hey Hobgoblin, good to see you.

Posted by: Michael at June 30, 2006 02:30 PM (oZXdi)

104 I'll go see the new Pirates movie that plays on humor without assuming false affections. Damn the writers of the new Superman for removing our hero's heart to create a cyborg eschewing the American way. Superman, though from Krypton, was sent to this world to emulate the American way; that was his destiny. So again, to hell with Hollywood. They think that being unAmerican will market better; wrong! Foreigners have their own cultural icons. To sell out America is suicidal.

Posted by: Lynwood at June 30, 2006 02:30 PM (OA5Ca)

105 "Monty, seriously, you're dumb. You have no business having an opinion about anything."
Posted by dead indian

Yeah he does. Because this is the United States of America. And America rules.

Posted by: ZRyan at June 30, 2006 02:31 PM (LiJvd)

106 Monty, seriously, you're dumb. You have no business having an opinion about anything.

Actually, he's right about that.

*STILL pissed about the Bad Poetry Contest*

Posted by: Michael at June 30, 2006 02:32 PM (oZXdi)

107 By the way, and not at all off topic, I'm utterly shameless enough to plug my exclusive sneak peek at the next Superman movie...you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Posted by: See-Dubya at June 30, 2006 02:34 PM (RqyAt)

108 You have no business having an opinion about anything.

And yet...I go on and have them anyway. Why? Because that's just the way I roll. It's kind of like the habit you have of shitting in your pants -- you do it because you can't help it.

By the way, how's the syphilis treatment going?

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 02:34 PM (gNsVO)

109 Ohburn! Score another one for America.

Posted by: ZRyan at June 30, 2006 02:37 PM (LiJvd)

110 injun, the folks here have no illusions about what I am, but evil and genocidal are not, in fact, what I am. I am ridiculing your asinine moral superiority with is available only because you live in teh society that you so decry. In other words, you, like S0cr4tes (fucking filter) in Athens, are a pariah on the only culture that allows you to exists.

Your hyper-sensitive, maudlin, and pathetic drivel would get your ass kicked from here to Sunday in any of the "indigenous" cultures you so extoll. That, or you would simply be the little bitch that gets fucked like a prison transvestite.

The only thing better that manipulating you into anger is watching your sputtering reaction.

Pray, please continue with your Trail of Tears.

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 02:39 PM (p1s9n)

111 Hey, Michael.

See you're still hanging out in questionable places with a lot of lipstick and too short a skirt.

(ps - one of the "with"s in the above comment should obviously be a "which")

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 02:41 PM (p1s9n)

112 *STILL pissed about the Bad Poetry Contest*

My nightly prayers go thus:

Dear LORD, thank you for all the blessings of my life. Thank You for the good, which shows Your benevolence; thank You for the bad, which builds my strength. Bless my family and my loved ones, and help to keep them safe.

But thank You most of all for helping me to beat that choad Michael in the bad poetry contest. This eases my sleep and causes me joy whenever I dwell upon it.

Your goodness and mercy shall live in my heart forever.

Amen.

Posted by: Monty at June 30, 2006 02:43 PM (gNsVO)

113 Heh, I still read the Poetry SLAM! thread every once in awhile if i'm feeling depressed. Cheers me right up!

Posted by: Feisty at June 30, 2006 02:54 PM (nUWM+)

114 see you poetry fags later

Posted by: hobgoblin at June 30, 2006 02:54 PM (p1s9n)

115 80 million indigenes
500.000 filipinos
1 million central american indigenes
500,000 east cambodians
1 million + japanese civilians & 1/2 millon german civilians
150,000 iraqis

150,000,000 dead Arabs


Oh sh*t, wasn't supposed to give away the ending

Posted by: holdfast at June 30, 2006 03:00 PM (Gzb30)

116 Title of a book yet to be released:

The Sociological Impact of the Ace of Spades Lifestyle: How I Survived the Trail of Sneers

by dead injun, Ph.D.* (and one-time faculty member of the University of Colorado)

*Ph.D., in this case, stands for Phucks Donkeys

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at June 30, 2006 03:06 PM (MJbn9)

117 Who cares how many are mudered

Hell I'm still trying to get over my ancestors and their slaves.

Oh wait, they didn't have any. Happy day!

Posted by: Dave in Texas at June 30, 2006 03:22 PM (pPXJO)

118 A great idea for the front cover of a SUPERMAN comic book show the MAN OF STEEL belting masked AL QUEDA terrorists and saying YOU,LL NEVER MURDER INOCENT PEOPLE AGAIN

Posted by: spurwing plover at June 30, 2006 03:43 PM (PAJqa)

119 My nightly prayers go thus:

Monty, you little bitch, stop being such an ass-kisser, OK? Seriously, Dude, your prayers make me hurl.

Posted by: THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY at June 30, 2006 03:52 PM (oZXdi)

120 Was I the right-wing historian referred to by Dead Injun/Hic Saltus, Hic Rhodus/etc./etc./etc. ad infinitum? I know, it's presumptious of me to say so, but right-wing, historian, so guilty as charged.

I'm still trying to figure out what "big words" I used. Does more than two syllables count as "big," maybe? Even for someone whose vocabulary recently expanded to include the term "monadic"?

If we're lucky, the existence-challenged aboriginal will tell us about Durkheim, or maybe trot out the notion of reality as a social construct. 'Cause that'll show us, you betcha!

Posted by: Master Tang at June 30, 2006 05:28 PM (+DMjG)

121 Me think strange word combination existential positivism show that little injun who sneer buy new thesaurus book.

He use big words, know buffalo dung about meaning. Make me laugh till tears run down face and make trail.

Posted by: Chief Shitting Bowl at June 30, 2006 06:10 PM (rZ5uY)

122 I am not monadic. I stay in one place and move around very little.

Posted by: See-Dubya at June 30, 2006 07:13 PM (B20VE)

123 Words of Native American wisdom there, Chief.

Posted by: Master Tang at June 30, 2006 07:17 PM (+DMjG)

124 If dead indian meant half of what he typed, he wouldn't be sitting around in his American mom's basement, typing on his American computer, with his fat American fingers.

I'd do a lot more than bitch and moan if I lived in Nazi Germany or Iran, why would he continue breathing up our American air, if he thinks it's so vile?

Posted by: adolfo velasquez at June 30, 2006 07:27 PM (VPTbH)

125 America has stood for the actual protection of the rights of life, liberty, and estate by the specific means of our republican and federal orders. We don't merely endorse the natural rights in principle; we have a specific, practical program for protecting them: We establish rights-protecting republics we call "states," and we unite them and protect them within a federal order.

Whenever we have aimed to establish new republics in new territories, the inhabitants have necessarily had to become part of the republican orders or be swept aside. People are always going to be hurt, and some are even going to die, whenever we press the establishment of new states in new territories. Yet states, united in a federal order, are the very means by which we extend the protection of life, liberty, and estate. Instead of allowing ourselves to be undercut by shame, it seems better to make the alternatives explicit and affirm their goodness.We establish new republics in order to extend the protection of life, liberty, and estate to new territories. We protect our new republics by uniting them under federal government. We invite you to reform your governments as republics and join the United States as member States. For we effectively extend the protection of human natural rights only by these means, and when we do so, we do not tolerate opposition.

Posted by: Kralizec at June 30, 2006 11:18 PM (vUoQm)

126 Dead Indian-

It's unfortunate your ancestors were on our land when we got here to discover it. Life's a bitch- wear a helmet.

The American Way is The Right Way. What's good for America is good for the world. People who realize this and get with The Program live well. People who fail to get onboard will get run over.

Happy Independence Day, everyone. God Bless The Founding Fathers, God Bless our brave troops, and God Bless America.

Posted by: Barry at July 01, 2006 04:52 AM (kKjaJ)

127 Monty,
The producers are desperately trying to make this movie palatable to foreign audiences, because that's where they're hoping to make the bulk of their profits. (It'd be interesting to see what they do in the translations from English to, say, French -- or Chinese.)

That may explain "the American way" omission, but not the makers' repeated insertion of the immigration debate into the movie hype. THAT is for domestic consumption. I think it's a pretty crude move and they should be made to suffer for it -- PR-wise.

Posted by: CJ at July 01, 2006 06:04 AM (9KqcB)

128 barry

Might makes right. Ends justify means. You're evil.

And your photography is puerile and inane.

I'm burning Your Flag.

Posted by: dead indian at July 01, 2006 06:51 AM (jUNKz)

129 master tang

Saying marx is "wrong" is just stupid. It's like saying Witman is only "gay" or Poe is only a "drunk."

That you find camaraderie here among these idiots, bigots, misogynists, is weird, and makes me think you are a liar.

I think most horrible here is the lust for murder, justified by utterly incomprehensible wishful thinking and "belief."

But that's history. And I know historians, sociologists, critics are complicit in this history, its verifications, its narratives receiving imprimatur by power. It's a thrill to be a worker in the condescensions of posterity, but also deeply immoral. And most important, it'd be a mistake to think that smart people avoid such evils. For every 1 C. Wright Mills or 1 Charles Beard or 1 Raymond Williams, there are 1,2,3 Irving Kristols, Daniel Bells. It's a goddamned shame.

Posted by: dead indian at July 01, 2006 07:09 AM (jUNKz)

130 And it is obvious here the audience for such lies is populated by mostly late 20-30ish white male professed heterosexuals who have business or science degrees and have little or no contact with the humanities in general. They also have submissively congenial relationships with upper middle-class parents. That is, the idiocy here is stamped all over the place by failed oedipalism and an eagerness for authority and its obeisance; hence the Bush cultishness of this place.

Posted by: dead indian at July 01, 2006 07:18 AM (jUNKz)

131 Better dead than red.

Posted by: dead Amish at July 01, 2006 07:22 AM (V1Bo+)

132 And far be it for me to acknowledge that the miserable enthusiasm here for the genodide of indians is the same for persons who dig the murder of jews. Beneath contempt, really. But part of the aos lifestyle.

Posted by: dead indian at July 01, 2006 07:26 AM (jUNKz)

133 I remember when I was little, my uncle had a sign on the door to the bathroom in his basement.

This is a teepee
for you to peepee
It's not a wigwam
to beat your tomtom


Had a funny little cartoon Injun and everything.

Good times.

Posted by: Barry at July 01, 2006 07:48 AM (kKjaJ)

134 TARZAN THE MONKEY MAN SWENING BY A RUBBER BAND HERE COMES SUPERMAN TO KNOCK HIM IN THE GARBAGE CAN

Posted by: spurwing plover at July 01, 2006 08:33 AM (ba9dN)

135 Paradox. Marvel comics cannot, by definition, kick ass. They are the weak-kneed red-headed stepchildren of DC Comics. The best they can manage is a weak kick to the shin.

Ever read Garth Ennis' Punisher for Marvel? There is a comic that kicks ass. Frank Castle, not nice, faggy or even remotely P.C. and he sure as hell does not care how the enemy thinks or feels.

He is kind of how we need to fight islamic Facist terrorism. Show them we are not playing games.

Posted by: GTBurns at July 01, 2006 09:24 AM (iInYK)

136 Bryan Singer is gay??

Posted by: CraigC at July 01, 2006 10:03 AM (8xho0)

137 Superman is a girl's superhero. Seriously he's always been for the ladies. Guys love how he kicks ass, but he's always been the boy scout blushy nice guy that the girls fall in love with. That's why the movie was a love story that happened to have Superman. They got the love story in while keeping him single so the girls can all dream about being with him themselves without that bitch Lois Lane in the way. Aww, he's so cute. Aww he's great with kids. Aww take me flying in your muscular arms, Superman!

Men like Sin City. Which also was a romantic story of men and women and love, but done from a masculine perspective.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 01, 2006 10:19 AM (Pwzb0)

138 >Superman is a girl's superhero

WTF?

Dude- he's The Man Of Steel. He can fly, melt stuff with his eyes, and can throw a boat over a hedge.

Posted by: Barry at July 01, 2006 10:34 AM (kKjaJ)

139 He has X-Ray vision. That's a guy thing.

Posted by: shawn at July 01, 2006 10:42 AM (yp3GE)

140 This is a little late, but what is failed oedipalism? Is that when you DON'T nail your mom?

Posted by: Dave Munger at July 01, 2006 10:48 AM (wLuO4)

141 Sure, his powers are manly and tough, but look at how he's written, what his personality is like and think about how he effectively personifies everything a girl wants in a man. He's a girl's superhero, he's the dreamy guy that girls think about being rescued by.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 01, 2006 11:14 AM (Pwzb0)

142 Probably already said, but since I cut out of work early on Friday to see the new flick, I'll just throw out a quick observation.

In the movie, it is made clear that Metropolis is no other city than NY. As if, it was ever really in question. Which means that Superman was an illegally idopted alien/citizen, who spent his entire life (minus 5 yrs or so) living in the US.

So, of course he's an American.

Don't even get me started on the is 'he gay crap'.

Oh, and see the movie.

Posted by: Defense Guy at July 01, 2006 12:11 PM (YZzVj)

143 The changed line I chalk up to an ever larger international audience. No need to sweat it, after all, superman will save your ass no matter where you are or where you are from.

Posted by: Defense Guy at July 01, 2006 12:13 PM (YZzVj)

144 Yeah, that's the problem, DG. The new (gay, lefty) Superman no longer differentiates between good and evil, right and wrong. He is Super Moral Equivocator Man.

Posted by: Bart at July 01, 2006 12:21 PM (sDtxw)

145 Bart

I'd point out what could be considered a moral lapse on supermans part, but then I'd have to give spoiler to a shocker in the movie. Which I won't.

Posted by: Defense Guy at July 01, 2006 12:33 PM (YZzVj)

146 Ugh! Heap big troll from Great White North speak with forked tongue!

Now get me my firewater, bitch.

Posted by: Chief Squatting Bull at July 01, 2006 01:37 PM (d3avk)

147 Just got back from the movie, and Christopher is right about Superman: a girl's hero. Yeah, he does some cool stuff and yeah there’s action, but it's a love story first and a superhero movie second.

The only leftist crap I saw was when Lois introduced Clark Kent to her boyfriend Richard by saying "Clark, Richard...Richard, Clark." Weak, I know. I must just be tuned to it.

The biggest problem I had with the movie was inconsistency in the way Superman is affected by Kryptonite. One time he’s brought to his knees and helpless, 15 minutes later it just makes him sweat. Oh, and Richard (James Marsden, Cyclops) has a really creepy Cary Elwes/Tom Brady vibe. Worth seeing, bring a date.

P.S.-Indian/hic/nick the stripper/erg, you need help. Heep big couch time, kimosabe.

Posted by: Pupster at July 01, 2006 05:08 PM (9h6vV)

148 I see the Non-Breathing Native American has re-surfaced, and pretty much removed any doubts existing about his identity. And, of course, to display some disturbing obsessive behavior.

Several things come to mind here, the first being: if you're attempting to ape awareness of a particular discipline, you need to do your homework a bit more thoroughly. Charles Beard was a hot topic in historiography in the Forties, and he's now as ancient as the Conflict/Consensus debate from that same era. We've moved on a bit since then - the current buzz word among academic historians is Transnational History. It's in its nascent phase at the moment - some question whether there is such a thing to begin with with, while others question its value and relevance. Some, like yours truly, would argue that it's something historians have already been doing, at least to a degree, and would go on to point out the difficulty of "doing" historical research as the most ardent Trans-Historicists would wish - it would require that everyone become a polyglot, mastering numerous languages, and ransacking a near-endless quantity of archives in a wealth of other nations. An extremely intelligent young man by the name of Caleb McDaniel makes the case for Transnational History at his blog, Mode For Caleb - it's a good starting point to acquaint yourself with the subject, if you're so inclined.

The notion of academics being complicit in the power structures of various sinister elites is very......Sixties of you. I'll give you credit for a dim awareness of how others have bastardized some of the ideas of Foucault and Said there, but again, it's a bit old hat. Try googling the name "Herbert Butterfield" and "Whig Historians" to see just how long British and American academics have wrestled with the problem of true historical objectivity. Or rather, to capture one aspect of the modern phase of this - it could be argued that this has been something implicit in doing history since the days of old Herodotus himself. To speak authoritatively, of course, you'll need to acquaint yourself with Hayden White and come to grips with the Post-Modern project. These are topics that would naturally be covered in a good graduate-level course in historiography and methods, and if your interests continue in that direction, you might even confront one such some day.

I only reply at some length because it's clear to me that (1) you need help, and (2) you seem to have an interest in academic pursuits, where currently your ambition and pretensions outstrip your knowledge base. AOS is hardly the place to confront either of these issues, and you're not exactly helping yourself with the impotent sorties you've carried out here. I sincerely hope that you are successful in resolving your difficulties, and are able to come to terms with the issues that plague you.

Posted by: Master Tang at July 01, 2006 09:15 PM (+DMjG)

149 Did someone say plague?

Posted by: Ward Churchill's Smallpox Blankets at July 01, 2006 10:59 PM (YpIcX)

150 master tang

It's ridiculous to claim historians are not currently complicit in the GWOT murder/farce. You've pointed out who the assholes are: hanson, huntington, et al. on & on.

You reply w/ supercilious bullshit about the evolution of historical research, as if the commitment to methodology dilutes moral responsibility or paralyzes the terrible efficacy of history as a myth spoken only by power. The benefit of methodology to "conservatives" is to evacuate from the historical narrative not only the voices of the oppressed (gasp! multiculturalism & feminism are bad), but also to confirm that what is, is best (means justify ends). This is positivism, and is the preferred method for a range of rightwing intellectuals, anthropologists (social darwinist variations), sociology (interactionism, audience reception and consumer research), and fucking economics. The latter is even more ridiculous because the entire discipline is controlled by class apologists who in fact know the methodology is a complete lie (the interpelation of economic activity based on the agent's utility maximization, perfect info, market clearing, etc.)

I'm not surprised at all even historians are positivists. Only a positivist historian could vindicate an "american way" or justify the genocide of indians as a good thing for indians. But, I'd rather call such a historian an ideologist, or when she tendentiously uses history to justify american empire and bush, a fascist.

Posted by: dead indian at July 02, 2006 08:41 AM (jUNKz)

151 Dave Munger
...but what is failed oedipalism? Is that when you DON'T nail your mom?

Maybe it's when you nail someone else's mom by accident. Or maybe your dad. Or the dog.

Curse you Wild Irish Rose!

Posted by: wrong-way Rex at July 02, 2006 08:42 AM (CX6Ok)

152 Inuk-Chuk

dead indian uses his powers for evil, not good.

Posted by: Apache Chief at July 02, 2006 08:56 AM (vB/Ex)

153 Did the Indians fly kites while smoking peace pipes, or were they in a state of constant tribal warfare for territory and horses long before the white man's aggression?

Posted by: Pupster at July 02, 2006 09:29 AM (9h6vV)

154 Again, Existence-Challenged Aboriginal,, I must stress that Ace of Spades is not exactly the place for you to air your obsessions. Nor is it the place to punch above your weight in intellectual terms.

Your attempts to critique the Academy fall short on several grounds, most immediately due to your lack of knowledge of what many academics, historians included, actually do. You also seem to confuse those historians, like Victor Davis Hanson, who sometimes write political analysis and opinion pieces, with those whose output is purely scholarly in the traditional sense of the word.

So, historians are complicit, not merely in the designs of the current Administration, but also in a labyrinthine conspiracy to perpetuate a myth to justify existing power structures? Well, to be fair, I've heard that before - in 1972, to be exact. I don't know of anyone in the Academy today who wouldn't feel the wee bit embarrassed to trot out that bit of re-fashioned dogma from the Sixties. And you trot out Positivism as an indictment? Dude - go read up on Levi-Strauss, Lacan, Foucault, White, Rorty, Derrida. Google "Structuralism," "Post-Structuralism," "Post-Modernism." Accusing me, or any other practicing historian, of being informed by the conceptual framework of Positivism, even in the distorted form you present, is akin to accusing us of relying on the flights of birds or reading entrails in conducting our research.

Historians attempt to exclude the oppressed, the marginalized, minorities from history? Clearly you haven't ever picked up a copy of the Journal of the American Historical Association or been to any of their conventions in the last twenty-five years. Nor have you apparently looked into what academic works, both monographs and popular studies, have appeared anytime in the last fifty years. What's rare is for an academc work to focus on a topic that isn't about non-elite actors. Some have even complained that this focus distorts the way history is taught, leaving out traditional topics of political, diplomatic, military, and economic history that often serve to provide a framework for developing a picture of a given period as a whole.

In grad school, I was taught historiography and method by an historian of slavery in America. Because my focus was Modern European History, all but four of the courses I took in that area were taught by faculty whose grounding was in the Annales school - a school of thought which is predicated on the need to focus on non-elites, or the menu peuple. Check out the works of Braudel, or Ladurie for a taste of that.

The folks who taught me came from a variety of political points of view, Left, Right, and in-between. What they impressed upon me is that history is about the search for Truth. To what extent can we determine, given the myriad limitations we face, ranging from our own bias to the problematic nature of historical evidence, what actually happened in the past, and what can we learn from that - that's what History is, both to me, and to everyone I know who is active in the profession, whatever their political persuasion. In the classroom, I don't pronounce upon subjects as "good" or "bad." Instead, we look at the past and see both that which is laudable and that which is execrable, without blinking, without trying to act as either apologist or censor. No indoctrination goes on, no attempts to channel someone's political thought. Indeed, by the end of the Semester, none of my students would be able to say what my political leanings were, since they don't enter into what we do, and I don't parade them.

You speak of me and others in my profession as somehow eluding "moral responsibility," yet the fact is that what we do is fraught with nothing less. Historians are on a quest to determine the truth about the past, and the methodology that you make light of is part and parcel of how the journey is undertaken. The duty to Truth is implicit in what we do.

I apologize to Ace and everyone for taking up so much bandwidth here - let me just conclude by urging you, Dead Indian, or whatever you're calling yourself now, to (1) get help, and (2) take out a student loan or finagle a Pell or save your pennies, and finally attend college. You will be astounded at the difference actually knowing what you're talking about can make, and it will save you further embarrassments of the type you've routinely suffered here (and, I don't doubt, elsewhere as well).

Happy Fourth of July.



Posted by: Master Tang at July 02, 2006 12:48 PM (+DMjG)

155 Your loquacious attempt at putrefaction merely serves to equivocate the effulgent manner in which you visculent and erythrocyte. As chomsky (PBUH) wrote, "bush is vouchsafed as an agglutinant, and america is saponaceous to the point of chimera."

Posted by: dead eggmcmuffinus at July 02, 2006 01:21 PM (d3avk)

156 master tang

I doubt you ever read braudel, but the sheeple here would do themselves a favor to read his history of capitalism.

The point is, dude, you're a professed historian who commiserates w/ people here who regularly advocate the murder of arabs. Look it up in your little readers, professor, the greatest threat to modern civilization has been the rightwing "conservative"--from the KKK, to Tim McVeigh, from Beria to Mobuto. And at the side of each a historian to dispassionately assemble a preferred history of power. A narrative of endless vicissitudes, and seldom betrayal. Put another way: if you are politically rightwing and an erudite historian, you are a fraud and an enemy of humanity.

Posted by: dead indian at July 02, 2006 04:32 PM (jUNKz)

157 I despise you for having emerged from the experience of reading history to become "conservative." This result is terrifying.

Posted by: dead indian at July 02, 2006 05:07 PM (jUNKz)

158 Last time, everyone, I promise. Dead Indian, your ideas of what historians, or even academics are, and what they do, doesn't match up with any sort of reality. You've built up a thin stock of bowdlerized conceptions based on concepts hopelessly outdated, especially by the standards of those that would profess themselves to be on the vanguard of the Left.

What you affect to despise about me is the reality that you don't want to face - that academe is not what you imagine it to be, and that the cloud-cuckoo land that you've slapped together doesn't mesh with hard, cold reality. For the last time - attend college, obtain an actual education, take the time and trouble to do some systematic reading of those folks whose ideas you mangle, and enjoy the luxury of actually knowing what you're talking about.

And get help. Because at this point, I just feel sorry for you.

Posted by: Master Tang at July 02, 2006 06:01 PM (+DMjG)

159 There is no doubt I'd kick your ass w/ what you think you know. No doubt.

Again, the company you keep, tang.

Posted by: dead indian at July 02, 2006 06:07 PM (jUNKz)

160 Yes, Injun, you've kicked a lot of asses on here, lots.

Get help. Please.

Posted by: Master Tang at July 02, 2006 06:46 PM (+DMjG)

161 Someone get erg a martini, STAT.

Posted by: Sortelli at July 02, 2006 07:29 PM (Bjdtq)

162 And maybe some heavy literature from the likes of James Wolcott. And a warm blankie. Lord knows the little guy needs some comfort after kicking so much ass.

"No doubt... no doubt... there's no doubt I'd kick your ass... do noubt..."
-Thomas Jefferson, Stuff Jefferson Said When He Was Drunk And Losing An Argument, Vol 3

Posted by: Sortelli at July 02, 2006 07:36 PM (Bjdtq)

163 Heh. Chomskyites. Talk about hitching your wagon to a dead horse.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 04, 2006 07:00 AM (Pwzb0)

164 This is great! I dig the candid banter around here. This is the first site I've been to that people can speak their mind. FR and hotair banned me for saying far, FAR less than these comments. All you have to do to get banned there is declare islam an evil cult.

Posted by: drolmorg at July 05, 2006 10:57 AM (14Wzq)

165 I just stumbled in here by accident while googling something else, and I haven't read all the comments, but I just have a question: why does it bother people so much to have Superman being a superhero "for humanity"?

Is it that he used to be more American, and you don't like the change?

Or do you not like the idea of anything being "for humanity"? If not why not?

I'm not just baiting here. I've encountered this before--antagonism toward the idea that there's some higher good, above the good of one country or another--some ideal of wanting what's best for everyone, not just what's best for *us*.

Is that what's at issue here?

I don't get why that's a problem.

I mean, I understand the point that you don't like people who don't like patriotism, but do you only dislike the concept of "humanity" when it's used to condescend to "patriotism," or do you dislike it in general?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I'm just curious about a different way of looking at things.

Posted by: pinkostinko at July 11, 2006 07:04 PM (bzbPV)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
165kb generated in CPU 0.16, elapsed 1.2267 seconds.
62 queries taking 1.0953 seconds, 401 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.