March 31, 2008

Secret Hope For Beta Males? Female Bloggers
— Ace

Got this off Hot Air's headlines, and I have to figure Ed Morrissey found it, or else Allah would have headlined it like I did.

Six female bloggers sound off about mistakes men make in dating, and three of them are put off by... overconfidence and braggin' on what hot shit they are. (Not Karol, of course!)

So, basically, if more women were like female bloggers, Allah and I (and most of you) shouldn't be able to leave the house without raincoat & rubbers for all the downpour of female attention and the splashing in puddles of adoring women.

Which leads me to believe 1) women bloggers are nothing like normal women or most likely 2) women bloggers are exactly like normal women in that they lie their pretty asses off.


Hmm... Since Allah linked this I guess I'll write more than just a name-check.

I kind of get what they're saying: I don't dig on unsolicited bragging myself, from anyone. Ices me over, no matter what the situation.

On top of that, I think if anyone is really interested at all they're going to start an intelligence-gathering mission to determine how happening you are. So they're going to ask things to elicit information about what kind of stud you might (or might not) be; you really don't have to offer that up from the get-go.

Besides, no one believes anything anyone says. Unless they actually like you anyway.

The other thing is I think guys still all smart from the "strategy" employed by the middle-school studs (I say middle school because that's where the most intense memories of rejection and the unfairness of life began; by high school it was already just accepted... mostly). That "strategy" seemed to be: Act like you don't give a shit, act like you could have anyone else you wanted, act like you're doing a girl a favor to be seen with her.

The trouble with our stupid male brains is, I think, we got the idea those dudes were scoring because of that strategy, whereas, in fact, they were going to score no matter what they did, being studs and all, and thus they weren't scoring because of that strategy, more like in spite of it. They were scoring because they were richer, better-looking, more athletic and more popular than everyone else. Their attitude wasn't getting them all that tail tail, it was getting so much tail that was giving them that attitude.

Anyway: It occurs to me that that strategy only works if, in fact, the woman is ga-ga for you anyway and nothing short of being arrested by the police for serial murder in the middle of chatting her up is going to put her off you. And anyone attempting to emulate what they thought worked in seventh grade is going to find out life is even more unfair than they previously imagined.

Related: Video kinda fits (I think; who knows what it's really about, I sure don't, but I assume anything vague is about sex) and I had it open anyway so...

Posted by: Ace at 07:20 AM | Comments (439)
Post contains 526 words, total size 3 kb.

1 If I've learned anything about women, it's that when they try to tell you what they really want in a man, they lie through their teeth.

Posted by: Vice President Huckabee at March 31, 2008 07:23 AM (PLvLS)

2 Cassy Fiano isn't the prettiest of the bunch, but looks like the most fun. I'd say she's the one most likely to appear in a "Girls Gone Wild" video, making out with another chick.

Posted by: Robert at March 31, 2008 07:26 AM (hcsKC)

3 "Why can't I date any nice guys?  *sob*"

"I'm a nice guy."

"I know... but I don't want to spoil the friendship (meaning: I"m not really attracted to nice guys, which is precisely why I never date them)..."

Posted by: scooter (not libby) at March 31, 2008 07:27 AM (4wR/C)

4

I remember reading what our resident dating expert, or sexpert JackM had to say about female bloggers. They were like toweletts. It's been seared in my memory ever since.

Posted by: 3rd_Bird at March 31, 2008 07:27 AM (1rNdj)

5 women bloggers are exactly like normal women in that they lie their pretty asses off.

^---
This.

Posted by: Aurvant at March 31, 2008 07:28 AM (PV/4J)

6 and three of them are put off by... overconfidence and braggin' on what hot shit they are.

Translation:  I feel guilty when I date overconfident, braggadocios men...cuz I think that's hot.

Posted by: runninrebel at March 31, 2008 07:30 AM (0n9wc)

7 Nice guy vs cycle dude with a bad attitude? I heard a radio report once about how females will get the nice,stable guy if and when they want to settle down, but they will always get that tingle in the loins for the bad boys.

Posted by: mbruce at March 31, 2008 07:31 AM (h/5U0)

8 If women want quiet, humble, hairless men, who like to cuddle and have a good sense of humor, why do Asian men have the hardest time finding dates?

Posted by: Daryl Herbert at March 31, 2008 07:31 AM (YvLui)

9 huh?  What did he say?



 Just curious:  anyone else think the playing-it-cool thing is the exact wrong strategy?



Posted by: ace at March 31, 2008 07:34 AM (SXBHu)

10

You were right the first time. Bloggers are not normal women.

;-)

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at March 31, 2008 07:37 AM (GH6Vh)

11 Toweletts?

Posted by: carin at March 31, 2008 07:37 AM (s1XiY)

12 He said bloggeretts are like toweletts, they're only good when they're moist.

Posted by: 3rd_Bird at March 31, 2008 07:38 AM (1rNdj)

13 Maybe I should start dating in blogging circles?

Posted by: Red State Titan at March 31, 2008 07:40 AM (uIPam)

14 Playing it cool on the part of the man or the woman?

The problem is, The Rules ruined dating for a long time.  Most conservative women - or women smart enough to string together a few sentences - are smart enough to realize The Rules are bullshit.

Actually, I'd say The Rules should be required reading...for every single male.  A guy needs to be able to recognize that sort of gameplaying and shut it down quick.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 07:41 AM (jRtPb)

15

Women want attractive nice guys, not unattractive nice guys. 

of course, the really hot guys are all cocky and most of the nice ones think being nice means being feminine. Humor is usually the overriding factor.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 07:41 AM (Qbv3S)

16 I had a friend back in college who would just buddy up to every chick and ask 'em all out. Friends ... in bars, etc. He came on to everyone. My hubby and I used to make fun of him for it. But, the strategy eventually worked. Last time I saw him, his wife was both beautiful and nice.

Posted by: carin at March 31, 2008 07:41 AM (s1XiY)

17 A big part of the reason that strategy works, carin, is because if you know the next one is coming along soon, there's no reason to get hung up on a single flaky chick, or a rejection.  It's the guys that only get a date once a year who get all weird and stalky - which means they get fewer dates.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 07:45 AM (jRtPb)

18 Wow, people lie about relationships? Dayamn, my whole worldview is shattered.

No, not shattered, what's the other word? Confirmed, yeah.

(Only half-true... but which half?)

Posted by: Merovign at March 31, 2008 07:47 AM (IaYDo)

19

carin,

I think that is called the AmWay strategy.

Heh.

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at March 31, 2008 07:47 AM (GH6Vh)

20 I guess that this explains why stuffing socks in my pants didn't work out so well...

Posted by: noprisoners at March 31, 2008 07:48 AM (eqMup)

21
What's next? A blogger centerfold special? I could do without these fluff pieces. If you need advice, you should seek it from the people who know you in real life, not from interviews of strangers on the internet.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 07:48 AM (achM8)

22 What are these "women" you speak of?

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 07:50 AM (gWoag)

23 I would say that most women don't know what the hell they want, so it doesn't really matter what they say. They don't want to appear shallow, even if they are. The same is true for men.

Posted by: carin at March 31, 2008 07:50 AM (s1XiY)

24

Yeah, be very wary of this report. The worst dating advice you'll ever get comes from women. I'm sure they're sincere, but women tend to have a blind spot when discussing what actually drives their attraction. Part of the problem is that they often describe what they want to be attracted to rather than what they're really drawn too. For many this comes from social conditioning, but also a lack of insight into their own nature.

Another problem is that women tend to use words differently when talking about attraction - they'll talk about 'chemistry', an emotional 'connection', or having 'confidence' - but have a hard articulating exactly what they mean by these words. Unfortunately these words really don't help that much since they describe the woman's perception rather than what the guy is actually doing. The truth is that women are generally drawn to confident (almost cocky) guys with a dash of humor and a little danger. Not all women to sure, but enough that that's the way to bet.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 07:50 AM (KjTXS)

25 It's the guys that only get a date once a year who get all weird and stalky - which means they get fewer dates.

It's a vicious cycle.

Plus women can smell fear and desperation.

Posted by: Warden at March 31, 2008 07:51 AM (rZ5uY)

26 I think Allah's awake. Surely that's his headline linking this piece.

Posted by: Splunge at March 31, 2008 07:52 AM (NhFwQ)

27

Can we see more of Sharon?

Soon, please.

Posted by: JWF at March 31, 2008 07:53 AM (1l37M)

28 Playing it cool works if you are the same number. But if the girl is a 7 and the guy is a 5 he needs to made up the difference with attitude and personality (being a dick).

However, if the roles are reversed and the girl is a 5 and the guy is an 8 or so, then the guy doesn't care what the girl thinks of him cuz there's plenty of 5s out there to go around.

Posted by: runninrebel at March 31, 2008 07:53 AM (0n9wc)

29

Plus women can smell fear and desperation.

Yes. Yes they can.

Posted by: jdub at March 31, 2008 07:56 AM (0t6Ct)

30 I beg to differ, runnin.  Being a dick is not the way to go.  Unless you want a girl that is going to need constant drama in her relationships.  If a guy attracts a girl by being a jerk, she's always going to want to be treated like that, consciously or not.  If a guy is fine acting like that, then I suppose that's the way to go.  I'd hope most of the men here aren't ok with being emotionally abusive toward a woman long-term...

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 07:58 AM (jRtPb)

31

Michelle Oddis, is by far the cutest. Though Dawn is quite attractive.

I didn't really bother to read everything they said as it is essentially meaningless.

Posted by: Jay at March 31, 2008 07:59 AM (BNlV7)

32 I had a friend back in college who would just buddy up to every chick and ask 'em all out. Friends ... in bars, etc. He came on to everyone. My hubby and I used to make fun of him for it. But, the strategy eventually worked. Last time I saw him, his wife was both beautiful and nice.

Probably the best advice.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 07:59 AM (achM8)

33 Anyway: It occurs to me that that strategy only works if, in fact, the woman is ga-ga for you anyway

But, Ace, you're presuming that the girl already knows the guy. Being a "dick" is still the best strategy to get women to take notice. The principle of the strategy is that even if the woman thinks the guy is a dick, at least she's thinking of him. He can fix what she thinks later... unless she's a 5, then he doesn't care what she thinks.

Posted by: runninrebel at March 31, 2008 08:01 AM (0n9wc)

34 Has Dr. Clouthier been engaged before?

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 08:01 AM (m2CN7)

35

I'm sure they're sincere, but women tend to have a blind spot when discussing what actually drives their attraction. Part of the problem is that they often describe what they want to be attracted to rather than what they're really drawn too

Agree 100%

women tend to use words differently when talking about attraction - they'll talk about 'chemistry', an emotional 'connection', or having 'confidence' - but have a hard articulating exactly what they mean by these words.

In my experience women mean the following when they say:

"Chemistry" = I want to rip his shirt off and have hot sex every time we're together.

"Emotional connection" = He gets my jokes and makes me feel he cares about me

"Confidence" = Makes me feel protected when I want to be, and is not overtly co-dependent.

 

Just an observation...

Posted by: Jay at March 31, 2008 08:03 AM (BNlV7)

36 Ok, Betas, I think you are pulling too much hope from the apparent conflation of "I don't like overbearing egotists," to mean "I like paunchy whiners who think that gym is a person and the word comb means his fingers."

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 08:03 AM (NXelq)

37 Sorry, Alice. I should say "dick" and define it better. I mean it in the way Ace describes the middle school studs above. Not an abusive dick. Just cocky.

Posted by: runninrebel at March 31, 2008 08:04 AM (0n9wc)

38 So they're trying to tell readers that the female bloggers' cerebrum is controlling their cerebellum?

Not bloody likely.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2008 08:05 AM (Uy68a)

39 Which leads me to believe 1) women bloggers are nothing like normal women or most likely 2) women bloggers are exactly like normal women in that they lie their pretty asses off.

It's not a lie, it's a gift for fiction!

I can't abide gameplaying at all when it comes to relationships.  This has led to some now amusing incidents wherein I've told the person I was with precisely what I was expecting/thinking/feeling only to be later met with shock, SHOCK! that I was telling the truth. 

I think there is some truth to the idea that women will respond with what they intellectually want when, in reality, the lizard brain reaction is the opposite.  The Bad Boy/Girl fixation really is true and probably biologically/chemically based.  I'll admit it, I might know that the boring tech person is better for me, but I really really want the hottie from the corner of Inked and Pierced. 

Posted by: alexthechick at March 31, 2008 08:05 AM (SHHaV)

40

I don't know anything about playing it cool, probably because I'm not cool.  I do know about playing dumb, well, except I'm not really playing.

 

 

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 08:07 AM (Kz86N)

41 "Dating" hint for betas: Any woman who uses the word "dating" unironically doesn't *like* men. She's shopping as blatantly as a man flipping through a mail-order bride catalog is. Bolt! And if that set of interviews didn't strike you as a series of dick-shriveling girly eye-rolls, your beta-tude is probably irredeemable. You're not getting the signals. (Fill out that Real Doll order form right now. Women can only hurt you.) The proper reaction to it is a sarcastic "hittability" ranking - the parodic male form of the girly eye-roll. Anything else is "nice." (And stop saying "nice," you creepy-ass creeps.)

Posted by: Retired (Not Gay) at March 31, 2008 08:08 AM (k5JzA)

42 I call the Amway strategy the 1% theory.  Maybe most of you could theoretically get 1% of the girls you talk to to like you.  Let's say that Ace is at .2% and I am a 10% kind of guy.  If I only talk to one girl for whatever reason, I might not get that one.  But a follower of the 1% theory just keeps on going until the odds play out.

BTW, chicks dig muscles.  every single one of them.  So, I would suggest that Betas learn to do a few pull ups.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at March 31, 2008 08:10 AM (NXelq)

43 It really all comes down to what kind of girl a guy wants to attract.  If a guy wants to have to act like an ass long-term, act like an ass when trying to pick up a guy.  If he wants a woman who has enough self-respect to not allow herself to get treated like she's worthless, he can't treat her like she's worthless.

Back in seventh grade, most girls not only had no sense of self-worth, but we were all adrenaline junkies to boot.  Some of us grew up, some didn't.  (That is NOT directed at any of the commenters here, btw)

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 08:11 AM (jRtPb)

44

Playing it Cool doesn't work. Becoming Cool does work. Becoming Cool means following the advice of Bender and ceasing to give a rat's ass about your romantic situation. Got blue balls? So what? Dick down the street gets poon hand-delivered nightly? Hope he remembered not to get crabs with that. In other words, what-fucking-ever.

And then, take the time you used to spend fussing about your dry penis and work on the rest of you. Do something you want, that makes you happy, instead of hunting faux-blondes with faux-tans in faux-taverns. Chicks like guys who are enjoying themselves. Being nice or not nice has nothing to do with it.

A Change of Scenery never hurts, either.

Posted by: Andrew the Noisy at March 31, 2008 08:12 AM (c767D)

45 As a long-time alpha male, I don't usually even bother to read this stuff. Women say a lot of silly things, but almost all want a strong man who can protect them, succeed where others fail, and is good-looking. Couple that with a sense of humor and you're inundated with female attention.

Beta males make excellent waiters, though.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 08:15 AM (GxN1x)

46

You are all my buddies.

Posted by: kevlarchick at March 31, 2008 08:15 AM (TNuqz)

47 The problem is, The Rules ruined dating for a long time.

Wait... what?  There are rules?!

I didn't get the memo.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 08:17 AM (Uuy++)

48 Meh.  The quickest way to a woman's heart is food.  Every guy should know how to cook a decent meal or two.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 08:21 AM (R8+nJ)

49 I have a very close friend who is a 100% beta, or perhaps another Greek letter further down the alphabet.

This man has not gotten laid since The Contract with America.  He's a very smart guy with some crippling social problems (not jokey/confident, a homebody, watches Stargate Atlantis, etc.). 

I know that I should have said/done something like ten years ago, but I don't know what to do.  I'd be game for winging with him except that it would be like dragging a dead body.

How does the labouring ubernerd find love, and can I help?

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at March 31, 2008 08:23 AM (IVUjc)

50

As a long-time alpha male

Dude, please.  That kind of personal ad will only get you a certain kind of woman.  I'll take the darling beta males any day.  They have big brains and don't need to be the center of the universe.

Alpha males are way too high maintenance.  And generally quite rude to those "beta" waiters.  Dealbreaker for me. 

Posted by: kevlarchick at March 31, 2008 08:24 AM (TNuqz)

51 Alexthechick's Tips For Dating*:

1.  If you want to meet someone, do that incredibly novel thing of introducing yourself.  "Hi, I'm [whatever fake name you're using tonight]" is far, far better than "Hey baby, you look like you could use some company". 

2.  Confidence is sexy.  Arrogance is not.  Being confident enough to come over to a group of women is hot.  Strutting up like we should all hit our knees for the honor of your magnificence?  Not so much.

3.  Cleanliness is good.  Spending more on your manicure than me?  Bad.   Knowing whether or not my Prada is a fake?  Also bad. 

4.  Treat a woman like a lady even if she isn't one.  You would be amazed at how far simply opening the door and pulling out a chair will get you.

5.  Be a man.  When I'm dating a guy, I want to date a guy.  When I want to be with a girl, I'll be with a girl.  No, being an arrogant asshole doesn't prove your masculinity.  But there's nothing wrong with being male and don't act like there is. 

6.  Eye contact is good.  Eye contact with a woman's actual eyes is even better. 

7.  Do not assume you're too troll-like to get the hot girl.  The pool of available men for women over the age of 30 who want a guy who is a. straight, b. single, c. without a felony conviction, d. employed and e. without a kid is very small.  You = gun.  Women = fish.  Dating scene = barrel.  Yup, that's brutal but that's also the truth.

*Disclaimer:  Please note that the above advice is being given by someone whose ex thinks she's The Devil Incarnate.  Your mileage may vary.  Offer not valid in Hawaii and Alaska.  If you're stinking rich and/or have a hot body, you can ignore the above and do whatever the hell you want. 

Posted by: alexthechick at March 31, 2008 08:24 AM (SHHaV)

52

Seriously, Andrew the Noisy hit the nail on the head. 

 

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 08:24 AM (m2CN7)

53 "Just curious:  anyone else think the playing-it-cool thing is the exact wrong strategy?"

As in all things human, it depends.  There's no catch-all generalization that works for/with everyone.  On this one, I think there's a pretty broad split on whether a girl prefers feeling like more of the pursuer or pursued.  (Social form dictates the guy pursues, but that doesn't necessarily dictate the dynamics of it all.)  But of course, you yourself may have a strong preference on that too.

"It really all comes down to what kind of girl a guy wants to attract.  If a guy wants to have to act like an ass long-term, act like an ass when trying to pick up a guy.  If he wants a woman who has enough self-respect to not allow herself to get treated like she's worthless, he can't treat her like she's worthless."

This is actually good advice.  Vice versa, too, of course.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 08:25 AM (8WyNq)

54

Can't wait to see the pure carnage on the blogosphere when it comes time to ask male bloggers on what their thoughts for dating women are.

Male bloggers to be interviewed:

Ace

JackM

Wickedpinto

 

 

Posted by: EC at March 31, 2008 08:25 AM (mAhn3)

55 As a joke one night I asked a female friend to tell all of her friends that I was a complete asshole and that they should stay away from me. 

They lined up to flirt.  It was hysterical. 

I ended up dating the one friend who followed her advice.  I had to pursue her a little harder considering she thought I was an asshole, but it made for interesting conversation.

But, if you have to even think about these things -- you're doing it wrong.  It's not hard to meet women.  It's hard to meet the right women.  Most women are as goofy and messed up as the goofball morons that hang around this place. 

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 08:26 AM (5yNaE)

56 Why diss the rules?  Girls have the craziest ideas on how to pull a guy.  I think the Rules tell them to not silence their hopes by assuming that the asshole they are with is going to want what they want.  So, you Betas, that helps you out because maybe the girl will break up with me and end up with you, if that was the relationship I had.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 08:26 AM (NXelq)

57 Dude, please.  That kind of personal ad will only get you a certain kind of woman.  I'll take the darling beta males any day.  They have big brains and don't need to be the center of the universe.

Sure.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 08:27 AM (GxN1x)

58

A few things, a reality check.  First, ask guys who get a lot of pussy how it's done, not women.  Women will say one thing and do another; it's what economists call revealed preferences. You ask the great fisherman how he catches fish, not the fish lying in the boat.

The "jerks" these women were sleeping with are not really jerks.  The "nice guys" are not really nice.  They're "jerks" because they dumped them, or cheated on them, or didn't like them as much as they liked him, etc.  The nice guys are mostly passive aggresive losers who pretend to care about Oprah or eye shadow or whatever bullshit some girl wants to talk about rather than saying:  you know what, let me tell you about what I like and why you should like it to.  In other words, a real stud has a passion for life.  He believes in himself.  And he's not going to pretend that he doesn't like what he likes or that he doesn't like pussy just to appear nice.  He's not indifferent to other people or their rights and interests, he just doesn't get swallowed up by them.  He's the golden mean:  not a sociopath, but not a wimp either.  On balance, though, women will still go for the socipath though because, unlike "nice guys," at least he's a man. 

A guy to get laid needs to have balls.  He does not pretend he doesn't want pussy because all real men do.  I've looked girls in the face and said as an opener, "You've got great tits."  And I smiled.  And they smiled back.  And I fucked them that night. It happens all the time. Conceal your sexuality and you'll appear like a fake.  Wear it confidently like an old t-shirt and it will intrigue.

This fatalistic stuff about game that "it would be fake" or "why would I want that kind of girl" stuff is just sour grapes.  Guys want hot chicks.  Period.  That's what you want.  That's what nature tells you to want.  And guys that have their game together have more choices. I've turned down plenty of pussy.  Why?  Maybe she was drunk and I thought it was dishonorable.  Maybe I just didn't dig her.  Maybe I wanted her to realize I can say no.  Maybe I had a girlfriend at the time and didn't feel like messing it up.  Whatever.  But I have choices.  Pussies don't.  Pussies that are bitching about how they're nice guys especially don't have cohices.  For them a nice guy is a phoney.  They want the same pussy, but they have this "bide your time" strategy involving picking them up at the airport after they visited the guy in Atlanta who knows how to screw. 

It's not even a looks thing.  Sure, you can't be dog ugly. And you should groom yourself.  Women care about the things they care about on themselves:  nails, hands, shoes, hair, skin, clothes.  Get that in order and you're good to go. But have a little game and whatever looks you have won't matter.  Be funny.  Be fun.  Be sexual.  Be in the game. Take chances.  Get used to rejection (it's part of life).  Have choices. Don't let your ego ride on whether some chick, the first one you've approached in months, disses you. So what. Next.  Maybe she didn't like you.  It happens.  It's life.  It's a numbers game.  More numbers, equals more dates, equals more pussy.

I'm not making this shit up.  All guys who get laid a lot--and I mean 100+ lifetime numbers--talk and think this way, and if you are in this league you know what's up.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 08:29 AM (kKFU6)

59 After reading this I am bringing my "A" game to CPAC.  Doubt it works, but what the hell.

Posted by: DCA at March 31, 2008 08:32 AM (OEnTM)

60 "Wickedpinto"

He's still MIA -- any update?

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 08:32 AM (8WyNq)

61

Meh.  The quickest way to a woman's heart is food.  Every guy should know how to cook a decent meal or two.

Slublog,

So true. Next time I marry it will be for this reason alone.

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at March 31, 2008 08:32 AM (GH6Vh)

62

Dude, please.  That kind of personal ad will only get you a certain kind of woman.  I'll take the darling beta males any day.  They have big brains and don't need to be the center of the universe.

No offense to kevlarchick, but this is the kind of well meaning lie that women tell men (and themselves) that drives men crazy. You don't have to be a dick to be alpha, just have alpha-like qualities even if you're really a beta.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 08:34 AM (KjTXS)

63

"The nice guys are mostly passive aggresive losers who pretend to care about Oprah or eye shadow or whatever bullshit some girl wants to talk about..."

And that's the problem.  Guys who aren't naturally "nice" tend to think being feminine is the only way to do it.  Just being fairly considerate and semi-sweet is enough to be considered one of the nice guys.  Of course, the ladies all know actually calling him nice to his face is the equivalent of calling him a Pussypants girlie-grade loser.  I think the proper way to say it "you're not an asshole.  good job!"

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 08:36 AM (Z9tCp)

64 The weak resenting the strong is something I more associate with the left than the right. The usual whining about how the rich might have money, but they have no heart. Only bad people succeed. This thread strikes me in a similar way. Alpha males are rude and insensitive. Beta males are smarter - just more rationalization. Would it not be better to simply admit the natural order and try to rise rather than wallow in excuses?

You don't get to be an alpha male if you aren't smarter than those around you. The problem is being smart isn't anywhere near enough, which is why there are so few alpha males and they get inundated with the attentions of females. Of course, it follows that relatively few females ever really get to be with the alpha male, which probably explains the fairy tales about cuddly, smart beta males.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 08:37 AM (GxN1x)

65

Forget conservative bloggettes, never underestimate the powerful drive of a sloppy drunk, horny woman at closing time.

At that point, do you really care what she looks like? 

You never give her your real name anyway...

Posted by: Sven Yamhammer at March 31, 2008 08:38 AM (XjZZY)

66 One problem is that everyone here has a different idea of "success". One the one hand, just coming out of my roaring 20s I can tell you that being a "dick" is successful as hell. It works for finding flings, one-nighters, semi-relationships, and lustful affairs. You can say whatever you want, but it works. It works for 5s and up. It doesn't work as well as being rich, but that's to be expected.

Now I'm engaged so I guess it doesn't matter anymore. Anecdotally, my fiance wouldn't date me originally because I was a "dick". But like I said earlier, she was thinking about me nonetheless. All I had to do was learn to be nice.

Posted by: runninrebel at March 31, 2008 08:38 AM (0n9wc)

67

 

Harriet : What do you look for in a woman you date?

Charlie: Well, I know everyone always says sense of humor, but I'd really have to go with breast size.

Posted by: I married an axe murderer at March 31, 2008 08:40 AM (m2CN7)

68 Decent women definitely prefer nice guys to jerks... as long as those nice guys don't ooze desperation and clinginess.  This is what "nice guys" get wrong every freakin' time.  You can flatter a woman without acting like you need her.  Easier said than done when you actually are pretty desperate, of course...

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 08:43 AM (K2rlS)

69 ok, quick poll - how many of us girls here are in relationships/married, would you classify your man as alpha or beta or something else entirely, and how did he act when you met, i.e. was he an ass, did he 'play it cool', was he nice, etc.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 08:44 AM (jRtPb)

70

Slublog at March 31, 2008 01:21 PM (R8+nJ)

I salute your premise. Tested and proven.

Ace,

Your concept of "normal women" leaves interesting women "abby-normal"? 

Posted by: maverick muse at March 31, 2008 08:45 AM (LYKFp)

71 Sandy Burger hit the nail on the head.

And since he (?) asked earlier, this is The Rules.  Or to sum it up, if you keep asking a girl for a date after Wednesday or Thursday for the weekend and she says she's busy, or she refuses to stay on the phone for more than five minutes at a time, you've got a Rules Girl on your hands.  Run like hell.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 08:47 AM (jRtPb)

72

Alice H, that's not the right question.  Betas will often by hook or by crook get married to some girl who is ready to settle down and is looking for stability.  The real question to ask is, "What kind of guy do you think about when you are with your husband?  What kind of guy did you cheat on your husband/boyfriend with?  What ex are you still not quite over?"

That'll be your answer.  Hint:  a real player who is totally sexual and confident and with it and intriguing and inspires feelings of passion apart from the higher brain, rational decision-making that goes into who you marry (and have a 50% chance of getting divorced from after you get scandalous).

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 08:47 AM (kKFU6)

73 ok, quick poll - how many of us girls here are in relationships/married, would you classify your man as alpha or beta or something else entirely, and how did he act when you met, i.e. was he an ass, did he 'play it cool', was he nice, etc.

And perhaps you could also tell us if you ever actually had an opportunity to be with an alpha male. (Yeah, I know - fat chance of getting an honest answer to that question.) This isn't the sort of issue where majority opinion counts for much.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 08:48 AM (GxN1x)

74 Be yourself.  Don't lie.  Don't get caught staring at her tits until you've already slept with her; then she'll think it's cool, until then it's not, even if they're hanging out there begging to be stared at.

Be fun.  Don't sulk.  Never act like a pussy about her exes; if she talks about them too much just call her on it -- lots of chicks are completely retarded in this respect.

Don't cling.  She'll want to be with you (or not) based on how much fun she has, not how many flowers you leave on her apartment stoop while she's sleeping. 

These last two points can't be overstated: don't stalk and don't be a moping pussy.  What chick would want to be with someone like that?

Never diss her family or friends.  Treat her like a lady: catch the doors, the tab, etc.

And the most important tip:  don't wait too long to bust a move.  She already knows if you want her even before you try, so give it a shot if you think she's hot.  The worst that can happen is that she pulls away.  Better to know that early.  You wouldn't want to be accidentally dating a lesbian anyway. /jk

Posted by: Thinking things over at March 31, 2008 08:49 AM (EQYOq)

75

I used to work in a restaurant with a bunch of hot, well-educated and intelligent women. There were probably 3 or more post-grads, a few teachers and bunch of college students. I was a little older but not much. Another guy who was about my age was cutting quite a swath through them.

I had just broken up with somebody so I was probably giving off "needy" vibes so I tried to cultivate the "Taken" look that gets so many guys with wedding rings laid.

Instead of them seeing me as "taken", they saw me as "harmless". Ugh, I would rather be "gay" than "harmless". At least if you're "gay", they try to turn you. It took me a whole bunch of crude jokes to get out of the 'harmless' category.

My favorite was when they said, "Oh my virgin ears" and I would reply, "That's probably the only place you are a virgin."

Posted by: Veeshir at March 31, 2008 08:55 AM (zXUuJ)

76

  You wouldn't want to be accidentally dating a lesbian anyway.

Uh, what's the downside?

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 08:55 AM (gWoag)

77 Alexthechick's Tips For Dating*:

What she said, except for the part about dating girls. I could probably add more, but nah... I like mystery.

Posted by: Conservative Belle at March 31, 2008 08:55 AM (/v6Id)

78

Little known facts about women:

What women say they want in men bears little resemblance to what they actually want. For proof, see who they marry.

Did you know when you meet her, she will look at your shoes?

She wants to know that you earn more than she does. That will matter when she's at home with the kids, even if she says that's not what she eventually wants.

Women want you to make the decisions, once you've heard them out. Don't ever say, "It's up to you," or "I don't care." Take a stand and stick with it. If she disagrees, she will only hold it against you for, at most, an hour.

You must be taller than she is.

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at March 31, 2008 08:57 AM (zS9LP)

79 I think caddy and guy who claims to get a lot of action but will never have a serious relationship are a little cynical.

As for me, I 'dated' a lot before my husband, mostly bad boy types.  Woke up one day and realized I was falling for one of my best friends, a beta male geek who wasn't like anyone I had been in a relationship with before.  It does happen, although I admit it doesn't happen often.  Never discount your female friends, if only because if they get to know you well enough they may have a friend you'd like.

I think part of it, too, was that I realized I didn't want a man who was stupid enough to think that the asshole act was cool.

And sorry, guy who claims to get a lot of action, but I don't find myself fantasizing about bad boys while I'm in bed with my husband.  There's a reason for that that women who date geeks understand, but I'm not going to go into here, since I understand Ace is trying to keep this blog R-rated.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 09:00 AM (jRtPb)

80 Uh, what's the downside?

Like dating a nympho, seeing a lesbian sounds great until you've been through it.

And I guess we shouldn't leave out:  never placate.

Posted by: Thinking things over at March 31, 2008 09:01 AM (EQYOq)

81

Michael Rittenhouse is a smart man. 

 

"The real question to ask is, "What kind of guy do you think about when you are with your husband? " 

I'm not married, but I once tried to fantasize about Sean Astin. He was too cutesy sweet looking, so I dumped him for a Michael J. Fox & Jason Bateman sandwich.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 09:03 AM (Z9tCp)

82 Did you know when you meet her, she will look at your shoes?

I'm a Payless ShoeSource man, myself.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 09:04 AM (PQyeQ)

83 You must be taller than she is.

That hasn't been my experience, although I agree with the rest.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 09:05 AM (GxN1x)

84

Alpha males are rude and insensitive.

This is a common misconception. You don't have to be an asshole to be alpha though many assholes have alpha qualites and are successful because of this. I've been out with guys who are masters of attracting women, and none of them were jerks. Mostly they're just really social, 'cool' guys who know how to flirt with women. Part of flirting does involve teasing and I think a lot of guys confuse this just being a rude jerk. It certainly can appear this way if you're not attuned to body language and social cues.

It also helps to be somewhat indifferent to a woman's feelings - your attitude should be that you're out having a good time and if she wants to be part of that, that's cool, but you don't really need anything from her.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 09:09 AM (KjTXS)

85 I think caddy and guy who claims to get a lot of action but will never have a serious relationship are a little cynical.

I don't think so. Cynicism is, again, one of those traits I more associate with the left. I find nothing cynical at all in recognizing that the combination of strength and intelligence prevails. I find that a profoundly good thing, whereas a cynic generally attempts to paint the world as hopelessly flawed in order to justify his own misery.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 09:12 AM (GxN1x)

86 Meh.  The quickest way to a woman's heart is food.  Every guy should know how to cook a decent meal or two.

Yeah, that's fine after you've gone on a date or two.  Knowing something about good food and taking them to a decent restaurant that they haven't been to (you know this because you are not a social moron and actually discuss it and have a few options) on the first or second date will go farther. 

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 09:13 AM (5yNaE)

87
Okay, all the lady morons here giving advice will be dating therapists. They will meet with aoshq morons, role play, and then shag your asses off. It will be therapy. You'll be saints (or matyrs).  Come, on!

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 09:20 AM (achM8)

88 Guy Who Gets Laid indeed gets it.

Fuck money, charm, epic poetry, good job, good looks. I know trailer park guys that get high quality chicks in greater volumes than stock brokers and mortgage bankers. I know forty-year old bald dudes living in rundown shacks that pick up more twenty-something tail than some of the 'prettiest' jocks I know.

Just rip on a chick like she was your best friend, and don't spend too much time with them, move on "Hey, ladies, it was real nice to meet you, but I have to go on." Too many guys meet girls, and latch on to them all night, buying drinks, trying to impress her, and when the average ex-con walks through the door, she leaves them and says, "THANK GOD, those guys were bugging the hell out of me."

Posted by: Vercingetorix at March 31, 2008 09:21 AM (szKfg)

89

Did you know when you meet her, she will look at your shoes?

This is truer than most men will ever realize. Many women use a man's shoes as quick judge of how hip and stylish he is. Whenever I wear fashionable even garish shoes, I never fail to get compliments from women.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 09:21 AM (KjTXS)

90 Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 02:13 PM (5yNaE)

True.  Of course, in either case, a guy's got to be alpha enough to make the first move and invite the girl for a meal.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 09:22 AM (R8+nJ)

91 And since he (?) asked earlier, this is The Rules.

Ah.  Thanks.  (And yes, I'm a "he".)

Yeah, The Rules look annoying to me.  If a woman doesn't return my calls, I just assume she's not interested and move on.  I'm not gonna keep pestering somebody until they explicitly tell me to get lost; I can take a hint.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 09:24 AM (Uuy++)

92

Why didn't any of you turds defend me from that NY Post article as a possible alpha male as the reason for my success with the ladies?

What? alpha's not a street name for shit load of cash?  Nevermind.

Posted by: ugly guy at March 31, 2008 09:27 AM (m2CN7)

93 Isn't all this behavior modification stuff to be alpha or beta a bit misguided? You're pretty much preordained to one or the other end of the spectrum long before dating/courtship. Yeah, one could tweak a little to shift against one's nature, but you're pretty much better off just becoming more comfortable with who you are and exuding the confidence of that comfort. At a minimum, that's a desirable trait and doesn't induce one to become artificially obnoxious (assuming obnoxious = = cool = = alpha) which is itself superficial and readily detectable.

You want to get more "alpha" without violating innate behavior and appearing embarrassingly awkward trying to get there? Get more comfortable in your own skin. That will get you more attention than you had before. Will it get you enough, a quick lay, or a lifelong mate? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least you'll still retain some confidence and dignity.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2008 09:29 AM (Uy68a)

94 Six female bloggers sound off about mistakes men make in dating, and three of them are put off by... overconfidence and braggin' on what hot shit they are.

A man who has to brag all the time isn't worth a heck of a lot. Real men, men worth having around, don't need to brag, confidence oozes from  their pores and is detectable by almost any woman.

The reason women lie is because the male ego is more fragile than eggshell. And because if they say the truth, men get mad. Men hate being told they are "nice guys" and yet the majority of women want a nice guy. Someone who will treat them right, cherish them, protect them and make them feel special. A braggart is a major turn off. A guy who is more interested in working out and checking himself in the mirror is a major turnoff. A guy who tells you what a stud he is, isn't, and is a major turnoff. A guy who points to all his possessions as some kind of symbol of how hot he is, isn't, and is a major turnoff. A man who thinks by virtue of his appendage he has the right to tell a woman what to do or how to do it is a major turnoff, most women know by the age of about 8 years old that males are one trick ponies and must be indulged and guided, not blindly obeyed.

Women are attracted to men who wear power well, men who are comfortable in their own skin. That is why a guy like George W Bush is sexy, a man like John Kerry is a laughing stock. Bush is real, a man's man, Kerry is creepy, a cootie carrier in the eyes of women. Women are attracted to men who exhibit honor and loyalty and understand the word duty. It isn't the uniform that is attractive, although a good male butt in Navy whites is sexeeeeeeee, but what the uniform represents that women respond to.

Try a little exercise if you have been out of high school for at least 15-20 years, look at your graduation year yearbook. Look at who the most popular kids were, both guys and girls. Do you wonder what it was about their looks that made them popular? The guy who was the president of my senior class looks like he could have starred in the revenge of the nerds. Geek written all over him, yet he was the most popular guy in our class and every girl drooled over him. We didn't think he was a nerd or geeky, because his personality shined through and he was confident, had a "nice' word for everyone and made them feel important, was terrific at his job, and very loyal to his constituents, his classmates. He had the "it" factors even if he wore big old black horn-rimmed glasses, was tall and gawky and didn't have a muscle to speak of.  He went on to become a pharmacist and an entrepreneur and if I told you the name of the  chain of stores he founded and made his millions in, you would know the name. Nice guys never finish last, despite what you have been told by lots of not nice guys who don't want you to make it with their gals.

But then, hey, what do I know, I'm just a Groovy Granny who can spot a phony a mile away, after decades of experience.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 09:30 AM (Wi/N0)

95

I was spending time reading through all these comments when I realized:

I'm a 40 year old married man, reading blog coments about "dating advice from women."

At Ace's.

I think I'm going to get a new hobby for awhile.

Posted by: Rocketeer at March 31, 2008 09:39 AM (GFaLW)

96

they care about my shoes?

hell, ppl could strap 2x4's to their feet and i wouldn't notice..

but it really doesn't matter because i'm short and don't make a lot of money

sucks to be me, but i'm used to and won't have it any other way

 

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2008 09:39 AM (IRh55)

97 You want to get more "alpha" without violating innate behavior and appearing embarrassingly awkward trying to get there? Get more comfortable in your own skin. That will get you more attention than you had before. Will it get you enough, a quick lay, or a lifelong mate? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least you'll still retain some confidence and dignity.

Wise words. I would point out that that approach would be the opposite of trying to dismiss alpha males as dumb or insensitive. It would also require forgoing the temptation to wallow in self-pity or self-deprecation. Find something in yourself to be proud of without having to poison the atmosphere with resentment.

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 09:40 AM (GxN1x)

98

I'd probably prefer the right alpha to a beta, but beta wins out over guy-who-gets-laid's brand of alpha every time.  Then again, I'm not exactly their type either, so whatever.  In all honesty, I would be flattered if anyone like that tried anything on me, but that's as far as that goes, and those types generally make my skin crawl.  But if you're just looking to get laid, that approach must work on some girls.

BTW, indifference does not work on me at all.  If I'm not sure whether a guy wants me, I give up.  Maybe most other girls have that thrill-of-the-chase gene that I'm missing, but trust me, it's not a surefire tactic.

Of course, reading these comments (and going through life in general), I guess I'm just not a normal girl.  I mean, shoes, really?

For what it's worth, I fully and honestly want a "nice guy" (as long as he isn't weak - I still need to be the girl in the relationship).  But I'm a "nice girl", and even most nice guys are looking for a "dirty, dirty slut."

Posted by: Mary at March 31, 2008 09:40 AM (JGUCy)

99 "Meh.  The quickest way to a woman's heart is food.  Every guy should know how to cook a decent meal or two."

Not a good pick-up method, obviously.

"Never discount your female friends"

I know you mean well, but with this crowd of moron shut-ins, BAD ADVICE.

Incidentally, I think a bunch of you folks are missing the point of this thread.  People generally have to work with what they've got, so...

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 09:40 AM (8WyNq)

100

Although I've never tried anything as blatant as "You've got great tits," I do think Guy Who Gets Some has the right idea, because I'd be willing to bet his game does not stop with "Nice boobies, wanna have the sex?" From what I can glean from his tooting of the horn, he's a Fun Guy.

I used to be the King of Whiny Pussies, because I was so concerned with Why I Wasn't Getting Any that I remained utterly oblivious to, well, why I wasn't getting any. I eventually reached a point in my mid-twenties when I moved, started a new career, and made a point of enjoying life and not worrying about it, just doing a bit of community theater just to get out of the house. Suddenly I was a very interesting guy. What had changed? I had, but I hadn't. I'd just decided to let the mess sort itself out. I won't pretend that I became the Kung-Fu Master of Seduction, but by letting go of the outcome, I had a lot more fun.

Now I'm married, and happily so, and there's a whole new set of issues and concerns, and Not Caring won't work in quite the same way. But it saved me another decade of being Bitter Lonely Guy.

Posted by: Andrew the Noisy at March 31, 2008 09:40 AM (c767D)

101 Of course, in either case, a guy's got to be alpha enough to make the first move and invite the girl for a meal.

Yes, butch up in order to buy things for a chick in the vain hope that she'll like you. Gotta man up, pussies, and take her on a Caribbean cruise.

No, man, NO! A chick is going to decide within the first five minutes whether she wants to bone you or not. Same with any sales. I've slept with girls within an hour of meeting them, good girls someone is going to call, "wifey poo" someday.

Know what you want "I want to hit dat azz harder than Ali hit Frazier", and have fun, don't care what she thinks, whoever she is, because she's not important; she has to earn that importance. You'll have a great time, people will want to be around you, you'll be more attractive, and you'll get what you want.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at March 31, 2008 09:42 AM (szKfg)

102 "I would point out that that approach would be the opposite of trying to dismiss alpha males as dumb or insensitive."

Dude, for a self-proclaimed alpha you're being pretty damned vain and thin-skinned in this thread.  Get over yourself.

"Isn't all this behavior modification stuff to be alpha or beta a bit misguided? You're pretty much preordained to one or the other end of the spectrum long before dating/courtship. Yeah, one could tweak a little to shift against one's nature, but you're pretty much better off just becoming more comfortable with who you are and exuding the confidence of that comfort."

Exactly what I was trying (but failing, I think) to say.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 09:43 AM (8WyNq)

103

Anonymous, it's the Betas who need that lesson in self-acceptance.  Just being comfortable and calm is no small achievement for your average scared shitless beta male who throws up at the thought of rejection. 

It's true, being cocky and funny is not for everyone. And if it's fake it will show, as in all the losers who think it's about "lines" and "kino" and whatever bullshit is being peddled on the internet.  At the same time, I feel like some of this is learnable behavior and, like public speaking, it just takes practice.  Sure, you approach one girl every year or two, it will be a harrowing experience fraught with meaning and fear and anxiety.  But if you make it a habit, and approach everyone you meet in a simply friendly way without an agenda, that will go a long way to creating real confidence.  Think about how Alpha it is to be the one that makes the introduction as if you own the place, shakes someone's hand, looks someone right in the eye, says, "hey I'm Alpha Guy you'll have sex with later, and your name is . . ." And then there's little things, like not asking for permission for anything or taking the master of ceremonies role when you plan a date, as in, "Let me have your number" or "Cool.  I'm looking forward to our date.  We'll be going to dinner at Dirty Sanchezes; I'll pick you up at 8:00 tomorrow." 

Anyway, if you're terminally shy, awkward, and scared of women, don't think tomorrow the evolutionary order settled 10,000 years ago will change.  It seems to me that order creates dual, competing desires at the base level in women:  first, have sex with and the kids of alpha males (the theory being they're attractive b/c their kids will be similar and the genes will also have high chances of propagation), and, two, let the beta males stick around and raise them.  (This I think is why ancient societies were so hung up on monogamy; they knew most men would do a crummy job of raising kids if they werne't sure they were their own.)

So, who do you want to be: the high value alpha male the women are competing over and that gets laid a lot (and also has his choice of quality womenw when he's ready for a serious relationship or the guy whining about how unfair it is taking endless buckets of shit from his old lady and "female friends" in the quest to be nice, unwittingly making them disrespect him more and more over time.  Well, you know what choice I've made.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 09:43 AM (kKFU6)

104

Mainly, I check to make sure they aren't wearing penny loafers.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 09:43 AM (Z9tCp)

105 Anyways, I'm out. No more dating gayness from the part-time robosexual community.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at March 31, 2008 09:44 AM (szKfg)

106

Nothing impresses a girl like a back-scratcher made from a real Velociraptor claw. I learned it at the Splitters.

That's all I got.

Posted by: Tushar D at March 31, 2008 09:44 AM (IlgNp)

107 The term alpha male is often misused I think.  A guy who is arrogant and a prick does not equal and alpha male.  In fact, he is almost assuredly a raging beta male.  Why else would he need to swing his dick around so much? 

Someone mentioned women who chase guys who treat them like shit being attracted to drama.  Totally true.  Hell there are lots of men and women who cannot function without a decent drama going on in their lives. 

The mysterious Chemistry women always talk about is nothing more than getting all hot and bothered around a guy.  It isn't anything more cerebral than that.  It doesn't have anything to do with liking the same movies or sharing politics.  I think the best way to describe it is "they smell good" when you have chemistry.  Or maybe you notice they smell good because you have chemistry?  It is what moves guys from the Friend column to the Do Me column and it defies all logic.

Alpha males have confidence which is not to be confused with arrogance or aggressiveness.  These are not the men posturing and doing everything short of wearing a "look at me" sign.  Those guys are Beta as much as the timid guys.  Alphas simply know who they are and see no point in pretending to be something else, why would they? 

Posted by: jen at March 31, 2008 09:44 AM (WhgGR)

108 Little known facts about women:

Yeah, what he said too.

Posted by: Conservative Belle at March 31, 2008 09:45 AM (/v6Id)

109 What's wrong with penny loafers?

Posted by: Cadillac Short at March 31, 2008 09:46 AM (GxN1x)

110 Never discount your female friends

Unfortunately, my female friends have been pretty useless to me in this regard.  Their girl friend may be a super nice person, but she's usually not at all appealing to me, alas.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 09:51 AM (PQyeQ)

111

"What's wrong with penny loafers?"

I don't wanna date Mr. Rogers or my dad.  If a guy's gonna wear 'em, he should at least put some pennies in there.  That way it'll look like a fun joke. 

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 09:53 AM (Z9tCp)

112 What the hell, where's my link?  :-)

Posted by: Karol at March 31, 2008 09:53 AM (jqKIo)

113

The term alpha male is often misused I think. 

Gee, ya think?  Anything in this thread give it away, perhaps?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 09:54 AM (t+mja)

114 Women look at shoes? Rig up a pair of size 16s to wear and you'll get their attention if you know what I mean.

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 09:54 AM (m2CN7)

115

Sorry Ace, the "middle-school act” you cite was indeed the reason for the guys success.  I was 6’ 2” and 140 lbs (human javalin) with no money, no car, no nothin’, except, good luck with women.

 

My much older brother had told me simply “Look hungry, go hungry”.  No need to be a dick, just comfortably confident.  I’m now 42 and remain convinced that it applies to just about everything.  Nobody wins em’ all but the less you crave something the easier it is to get.  Don’t know why, just is.

Posted by: NoProblems at March 31, 2008 09:57 AM (sep5Z)

116 volume, sandy.  And I'm not talking sleep with everything that comes along volume, I'm talking never turn down the opportunity to meet someone new.  And even if the gal your friend fixed you up with isn't for you, be decent to her, because she could have a friend...plus, you'll never get that confidence (not arrogance) that replaces the clingy stalky stuff unless you get the practice in meeting women.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 09:58 AM (jRtPb)

117

You want to get more "alpha" without violating innate behavior and appearing embarrassingly awkward trying to get there? Get more comfortable in your own skin. That will get you more attention than you had before. Will it get you enough, a quick lay, or a lifelong mate? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least you'll still retain some confidence and dignity.

While you probably can't change your fundamental personality, you can certainly change your behavior and expand your comfort zone. You don't have to become a full-on alpha male in every aspect - just incorporate some alpha traits like confidence and body language into your everyday behavior until they become natural. The key to this is to practice it with everyone you meet - don't try to pull it off for the first time in a bar. You don't have to be Brad Pitt, you just need to be a cooler, fun-er version of yourself.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 09:58 AM (KjTXS)

118 16?  holy shit.  The only thing that would draw more attention to those feet is if there were on a guy about 5'8.  That would be most excellent.

Posted by: jen at March 31, 2008 09:59 AM (WhgGR)

119

Top three places to not get your dating/sex advice from:

1) Askmen.com

2) Cosmo

3) AoSHQ

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 09:59 AM (Tk5HT)

120 Alpha males have confidence which is not to be confused with arrogance or aggressiveness.  These are not the men posturing and doing everything short of wearing a "look at me" sign.

Amen.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at March 31, 2008 09:59 AM (szKfg)

121 "Their attitude wasn't getting them all that [much] tail, it was getting so much tail that was giving them that attitude."

You pretty much nailed a creeping suspicion I had through my single years, try though I might to talk myself out of it.

It reminds me alot of that famous SNL skit about how the 3 keys to success in dating are (to paraphrase) "be handsome, be attractive, don't be ugly".

AFAIC people are all pretty visual based, regardless of gender.  Good looking people turn heads; it's human nature.  People of the opposite gender will give you the once over even if it's "just window shopping", but it's even more basic than that - people, generally, LIKE being around people who are good looking whether that translates into simply getting more invites to parties, outings, client conferences etc, being able to strike up conversations about totally stupid crap and having the other person nodding and thinking they are having a real "connection" or a "great conversation", or to actually getting hit on.

When people start saying "I prefer dates who are conservative/liberal/Christian/into country music/etc" it's not that they don't genuinely appreciate (and want to totally bang, if only in their private fantasies) folks who are good looking but fall outside this limited criteria; it's that they've learned through experience that they need certain things in a mate to be able to interact well and have a successful relationship, and without those things all of their efforts will just end up in another breakup.

That's where guys like me begin to have just the glimmer of a chance.  Sadly that chance never seems to grow very much, but at least it is there...

Posted by: Scott at March 31, 2008 10:01 AM (kSvWi)

122 Just read all the comments.  I like confidence, I think all women (actually, all people) do.  And I've never dated a jerk, ever.  I only have nice things to say about all my exes.  Since I turn everything into a poker analogy, I just said this to a friend:

In poker, hand selection is very important.  Any two cards can win but some hands win more than others.  You can win with bad cards but you have to get very lucky.  Whereas if you only play good cards, you have to get lucky a lot less. 

Posted by: Karol at March 31, 2008 10:02 AM (jqKIo)

123 Nothing impresses a girl like a back-scratcher

Hey, don't knock backscratchers. When my 32 year marriage ended in divorce, my best male friend gave me the gift of an 89c bamboo back scratcher. Best gift I've ever gotten from a guy. When I asked him why he gave me such a silly thing as a gift, he said that when he is without female company in his life, the thing he misses most is someone to get that unreachable itch, so he thought it would be a good gift to his newly single friend. He was right.

Oh, and BTW, a woman with small boobs might think that getting them made bigger will change her life, but it won't in the end. A guy who starts off a conversation "great boobs" is a real jerk and really childish.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 10:02 AM (Wi/N0)

124 I was cursed when it came to men and dating.  Men always had strange ways of showing that they liked me.  Just off the top of my head, here are a few...

*blowing in my ear (I thought this was only done on Happy Days)

*Some guy in a bar tried to count the buttons on my shirt

*flashing me (lost count), one was friendly and waved at me

*The phone booth incident, where some moron wanted me to watch him pleasure himself

*One guy told my brother-in-law he'd, "eat my shit for a mile to see where it came from"
YEP, cursed.

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 10:04 AM (E3XtI)

125

i confess to being a "beta" male, and a lot of what the alpha types have said is

almost certainly true, still, i'm not changing who i am just to get some tail, do i

want some tail?  I sure do, but everything has a price and some things cost

more than i'm willing to pay, for better or worse i just can't bring myself to 

hook up with a woman simply to get laid, i feel like i'd be using them and then

my conscience would bother me. I wish it wouldn't but I know it would so I

can't.

 

p.s. i'm no saint, i just like to sleep at night 

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2008 10:05 AM (IRh55)

126 Wait!  I forgot about the sheriff who brought a machine gun on our first, and only date.

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 10:07 AM (E3XtI)

127 Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot,

Sure, I get your points. I'm just winnowing it all down to a simple plan anyone can work without too much trouble which can only be positive. We're pretty hardwired, individually, and susceptible to perhaps just a little bit of familial molding. Maybe a bit more than a little, but pretty limited in our options. Those who would be Big-A alphas were almost assuredly alphas at birth - just an extension of inborn personality.

A true beta will not be able to mount Everest to become The Ladies Man; but, a beta can readily make a small step in the right direction towards base camp by working on esteem before working the ladies. Get that confidence up, then proceed to work that new charm on someone else without forcing it. Yeah, there's that "I can't get experience without a job. I can't get a job without experience." loop that has to be broken for the dating scene, so the first step is to work on oneself. Get that first step of confidence going and the dating scene gets easier. The same tactic would work for little-a alphas aiming for bigger alpha status. The point is to focus not on what others are doing so much as it is to focus on what you are doing. One needs only to improve upon oneself and not fret about others' performance or perception. Then, the conservative blog ladies won't be able to restrain themselves.

Oh, and if you happen to be a millionaire, it wouldn't hurt to flash a few bills.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2008 10:16 AM (Uy68a)

128 Top three places to not get your dating/sex advice from:

Top one place to not get your dates from:

1) AoSHQ

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 10:17 AM (PQyeQ)

129

I love these betas who never get laid who make this some either/or dilemma as if them going out and getting numbers and meeting women would require them to sleep with someone they didn't want to.  Pathetic.  Sour grapes.  And a bit overoptimistic, wouldn't you say?  Your're a fucking man. Are you worrried about being date raped?  Do what you want.  Don't do what you don't want.  Live by your code.  But don't think anyone older than 22 is fooled by this "I don't want to change b/c I might have to do something immoral bullshit."  Guys who suck at sales don't want to make phone calls either. 

As for this, "That's where guys like me begin to have just the glimmer of a chance.  Sadly that chance never seems to grow very much, but at least it is there..."  Well, that's sad.  You're a man.  Go out and get what you want. Mix it up. Take some chances.  How do you or these girls know what they want.  If you love yourself, you should be thinking they'll want you if they got to know you because you'r ea quality person.  Feeling sorry for yourself is just lame and unattractive, even on the internet.

I"m sure you girls would just run in horror if someone complimeneted your tits.  Give me a break.  Would you rather  they insulted your body?  It's a question of levity and delivery.  I suppose if you're fat you may have something at stake in breaking down the universal male interest in youth and beauty, but otherwise, save the faux offence for your Bible study group.  I'm not buying it.  You'd love a man that you thought was reasonably attractive to complimenet your body in a  way that said, "I want to hit that."  It would probably make you want him more.  This kind of baudy sexual humor works just fine, if you're not a creep.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 10:17 AM (kKFU6)

130 Dragonfly, what is it with guys and phone booths? I once had a guy jump in a booth behind me and start dry humping me as he said, "just think baby, you could have the real thing all night long." Yuck! Is there anything more disgusting? I didn't want to take him home, I wanted to have him arrested for attempted rape, but mostly for abject stupidity and crassness.


Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 10:18 AM (Wi/N0)

131 Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot (in his own mind)
Let me put it this way, if the first thing a guy says to us is "nice tits", we know to look somewhere else because the chances of being used for sex is obviously high in this situation.  However, if they're drunk, I'll cut them some slack and at least laugh and shake my head, rather than roll my eyes and leave them there talking to themselves.

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 10:22 AM (E3XtI)

132 Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot, please tell me you're under 25 years old.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 10:22 AM (Uuy++)

133 Sara, I don't know, but it scared the shit out of me.

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 10:23 AM (E3XtI)

134

I've done some of my best work in phone booths.

Posted by: Superman at March 31, 2008 10:24 AM (m2CN7)

135 Mainly, I check to make sure they aren't wearing penny loafers.

What about just one penny loafer?

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 10:25 AM (5yNaE)

136 OK, Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot  is now officially trying too hard to convince us he gets laid a lot.

Posted by: Thinking things over at March 31, 2008 10:25 AM (EQYOq)

137

Rocketeer - ditto

 

back to work

Posted by: shaekspeare101 at March 31, 2008 10:26 AM (pLTLS)

138

Let me put it this way, if the first thing a guy says to us is "nice tits",

I'm a little more polite.  I'll point and ask  " what are their names ? "

Posted by: Superman at March 31, 2008 10:26 AM (m2CN7)

139

If all you care about is getting laid, just learn how to play the guitar.  Even sleazy guys in mediocre bar bands have to beat off the women with a stick.

Either that or make a bunch of money, then spend it as fast as you can on strippers, hookers, and blow.  You'll be near death, full of STDs,  and broke when you're done, but you'll have had a lot of interesting sex.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 10:27 AM (Tk5HT)

140

geez, alpha's get real touchy when you mention the "guilty conscience" thing,

I wonder why....

and who's says beta's never get laid? it's rare but it does happened on few occasions, we just have to be patient, and choke back the fear which most of us can do on a good day.

 

 

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2008 10:27 AM (IRh55)

141 I'm starting to think it's a good thing phone booths are going away...

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 10:27 AM (jRtPb)

142 damn man of steel sockpuppet

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 10:27 AM (m2CN7)

143 I'm a little more polite.  I'll point and ask  " what are their names ? "

My fave: "Barnes and Noble"

Posted by: Thinking things over at March 31, 2008 10:29 AM (EQYOq)

144 I"m sure you girls would just run in horror if someone complimeneted your tits.  Give me a break.  Would you rather  they insulted your body?  It's a question of levity and delivery.  I suppose if you're fat you may have something at stake in breaking down the universal male interest in youth and beauty, but otherwise, save the faux offence for your Bible study group.  I'm not buying it.  You'd love a man that you thought was reasonably attractive to complimenet your body in a  way that said, "I want to hit that."  It would probably make you want him more.  This kind of baudy sexual humor works just fine, if you're not a creep.

Oh, we want to know that you think we're sexy, but not that it is the only thing about us that you like. That tells us you will be moving on when we get older and maybe not the hard body of our twenties. And we don't like you making a public display about it either. When we know we look good and our man stands a little taller and walks with a little more confidence with us on his arm, that tells us volumes more than, "hey baby you have great tits."

And as far as the bedroom is concerned, an arrogant man who thinks he is the world's greatest lover, is usually really lousy in bed and gets lied to a lot. A man who is inexperienced is trainable, if he is willing to listen and learn what really turns his partner on. When you are more interested in her pleasure than your climax, you will find in the end that you are a thousand times more satisfied with the result.

And don't forget that many women are shy too. Break through her shyness and you might be really surprised what lurks underneath.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 10:29 AM (Wi/N0)

145 And superman would know about nice tits, with the x-ray vision and all. LOL

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 10:31 AM (E3XtI)

146 33. And my batting average with younger women went way up after 30, somewhat to my surprise.  A trip to the Bennigan's and opening the door to the car and they think they're the Belle of the Ball at the Four Seasons.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 10:31 AM (kKFU6)

147 Break through her shyness and you might be really surprised what lurks underneath.

Ah, you've discovered my life's mission.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 10:32 AM (5yNaE)

148 "Their attitude wasn't getting them all that [much] tail, it was getting so much tail that was giving them that attitude."

Damnit, every time I try to get out, the betas pull me back in.

Very, very few guys have been always successful with women. Most of them go through dry spells, or long dry high school/college/work years when they fall into that same "You're sooooo beautiful" routine that murders attraction in the cradle.

I love "Guy", cuz he tells it like it is. He's not telling you to be someone else, chief, he's telling you to be yourself, who's probably a great guy, funny around your friends, who's really smart, likes kung fu flicks, whatever. Treat attractive girls like your best friends, maybe even a little "ah, damnit, what do you want? Go ahead and buy me a drink already, cuz I know you luv me" teasing, and they respond to that.

But you are not being yourself when you lie to a chick and say "You're the most super-beautiful chick in the world" (she isn't, none of them are) and do things to impress her. That's not you, not the real you, and people detect that of being dishonest from a mile away. Nothing to do with nothing, it's attitude, having fun, being fun.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at March 31, 2008 10:32 AM (szKfg)

149 As Bill Murray said in "Meatballs":

It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter!"

Posted by: Jersey Jim at March 31, 2008 10:33 AM (k/9B1)

150 GWGLAL,

Dude, you need to get out of Peoria once in a while.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 10:33 AM (5yNaE)

151

Some of you are making this a lot more complicated than it is.  There are about 6 billion people on the face of the earth, half have any outie and the rest have an inie.  That's it.  There are no alphas or betas, just people who accept and focus on the best parts of themselves, or those who waste too much time worrying about why they aren't perfect.

 

I like confidence, I think all women (actually, all people) do.

 

Yea, that's about all there is to it.  Focus on being the best you, even if that means the best nerdy, goober who dresses up in SW action outfits.  Just be the best you can at that and look for a mate who is looking for the best Han Solo or Princess Leia. 

Don't waste your time or money buying shoes to impress someone.  Find someone who likes the shoes you have.  The shoes will fit better and so will your date.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 10:35 AM (t+mja)

152 A trip to the Bennigan's

Talk about going after low hanging fruit.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 10:36 AM (5yNaE)

153 I have been married for so long I wouldn't know the first thing about picking up women. I do know about seduction though, when you get married you  need to pick this talent up because the sex is still in play, it isn't a given.





Posted by: uniball at March 31, 2008 10:36 AM (27iEn)

154 Also, a word of advice:  If you approach two girls sitting together,  Do not say: "I can't decide which of you is prettier".  To you it may sound like a compliment, but to us it sounds like "I'll take either of you, I'm not picky, who wants to suck my dick?"  You should really pick one before you walk over.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 10:36 AM (Z9tCp)

155 What girls say and what they really believe and act upon are 2 different things, and anyone who deals with a woman or women (including your wife, gf, mother, sister, daughter) knows it. I don't believe that beta male crap for a second.

On the other hand, if they are talking about a preening, bragging, self-indulgent oaf than ok- but that describes most men :p

Posted by: docweasel at March 31, 2008 10:37 AM (HbCq2)

156 Take it from the sexiest guy I have ever known, one who never lacked for female company. His philosophy was simple and ageless:

A woman who is a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom.


Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 10:39 AM (Wi/N0)

157

It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter!"

You left off the best part.

Even if we played so high above our heads that our nose bleeds

IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER! cause we're going to lose anyway.

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 10:40 AM (m2CN7)

158

damn I paraphrased it wrong and also left out the important part. To finish

It just doesn't matter ........because all the really good looking girls would still go out with the guys from Mohawk because they've got all the money!

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 10:43 AM (m2CN7)

159

#156

that's the kind of thing that stops me dead in my tracks, I don't know the code, lol

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2008 10:45 AM (IRh55)

160 My fave: "Barnes and Noble"

My fave: "Gobble and Bawk"

Posted by: Gabriel at March 31, 2008 10:47 AM (1Ug6U)

161

Screw the alpha and beta tags.

Know thyself.

Once you do that, it all falls into place.

Posted by: Blogluddite at March 31, 2008 10:54 AM (Pl9JO)

162

My fave: "Barnes and Noble"

My fave: "Gobble and Bawk"

My fave:  Cash or Credit

Posted by: Kristen at March 31, 2008 10:54 AM (m2CN7)

163

I have to admit, guy who gets laid a lot reminds me of a friend of mine who gets laid a lot. The kind of friend who's been my friend since high school but who friends I've made later say, "Dude, why are you hanging out with that guy?"

Wherever we go, he gets laid. I mean, wherever. We were in a tree, on the Mall at Clinton's first inauguration and he came down with a girl. I'm totally serious.  

Of course, he's a slimy, egotistical, lying sack of shit. But he's entertaining. And he gets laid all the time. I've seen him time and time again get some girl in a bar to dump her boyfriend and sneak out the back with him.

He's rude, crude, deceitful and obnoxious and it works.

I used to think he would be president, but I don't think the country is ready for another Clinton.

Posted by: Veeshir at March 31, 2008 10:54 AM (ThMnZ)

164

re: 156, pick one, pick the ugly one. Show her some attention. Ignore the cute/skinny one. A. You're going for the low hanging fruit, and B. The cute one often gets flustered by being ignored and decides she wants in on whatever action there is. Done this many a time (works best with a wingman).

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 10:57 AM (gWoag)

165 I just received a job offer paying over 6 figures. 2 out of the 3 women I told about asked me out. (the 3rd was my mom)

I am thinking this may be a good thing.

Posted by: Vmaximus at March 31, 2008 11:02 AM (sA5Gz)

166 Sara:
And as far as the bedroom is concerned, an arrogant man who thinks he is the world's greatest lover, is usually really lousy in bed and gets lied to a lot.

I agree totally and  these guys are nearly impossible to be in a relationship with, but then they are generally selfish in life and in bed, so unless you get your jollies bangin' a guy who wants to do it in front of the mirror to look at himself, these guys do not work. 

A man who is inexperienced is trainable, if he is willing to listen and learn what really turns his partner on. When you are more interested in her pleasure than your climax, you will find in the end that you are a thousand times more satisfied with the result.

Maybe I am just impatient or too damn old to train 'em, but I have found this to be very very untrue.  I guess you have to be wired differently than me for this because working out a few bumps in the road is different than starting from a blank slate.  Cuz a guy who is sexually inexperienced well into adulthood has some issues that I am not sure there are enough patience in the world to overcome. 

Does that make me a bitch?  Probably.

Posted by: jen at March 31, 2008 11:02 AM (WhgGR)

167 It's Official: The human race is doomed.

Posted by: Confederate Yankee at March 31, 2008 11:03 AM (xNV2a)

168

Don't waste your time or money buying shoes to impress someone.  Find someone who likes the shoes you have.  The shoes will fit better and so will your date.

That's a nice sentiment, JackStraw, but I don't think it's particularly helpful for most guys. If you're happy with your situation with women, yeah don't do anything, but if you're not, at least consider changing something. Ultimately finding your mate is a game of statistics - don't be passive, the more women you meet and interact with, the sooner you'll find the right one for you.

I didn't mean to become the 'shoe'-guy, but a stylish pair of shoes never hurts. In fact it's always a good idea to dress a little more fashionably than you think you need to. Your hair, clothes and shoes are the easiest part of you to improve, so why not start there.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 11:03 AM (KjTXS)

169 >>>My much older brother had told me simply “Look hungry, go hungry”.  No need to be a dick, just comfortably confident.

Well gee of course that's true.  Women despise desperation and weakness.  That latter one, weakness?  Worse than even desperation.

What I was suggesting was different but I don't really want to spell it out.


Posted by: ace at March 31, 2008 11:04 AM (SXBHu)

170 A woman who is a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom.

Dead on!  I learned that young in life, most ladies are exactly that.

I think the key to success is to really really dig women, I mean dig their quirks, their  humor, everything about them. Not slavishly worshiping as a pussy but appreciating them as a man with taste.

Nothing is better than finding yourself an intelligent, attractive, self confident woman who is an absolute whore in the bedroom.

Posted by: uniball at March 31, 2008 11:08 AM (27iEn)

171 I believe Dolly Parton calls hers "Shock" and "Awe"

I just refer to mine as The Girls.  Dated a guy who referred to them as his ear warmers.

I am always amused by the male fascination with breasts. 

Posted by: jen at March 31, 2008 11:09 AM (WhgGR)

172

"pick one, pick the ugly one."

That's only if one is actually less attractive than the other one.  And if a guy picks my friend over me, I may get a little jealous, but he's instantly on my No list.  I don't wanna be the 2nd choice.  Pick me first, or get the hell away from me.

I would pick the one you really wanna talk to.   

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 11:09 AM (Z9tCp)

173

Oh, we want to know that you think we're sexy, but not that it is the only thing about us that you like.

If I just saw you at the other end of the bar, it's the only goddamn thing I know about you.

Hi. I just came over to say I love your taste in those wonderful shoes whatever the fuck they are besides "brown; or some shade thereof", they really compliment that garment you're wearing about your waste which I cannot identify, whatever the fuck that means. I would appreciate your advice on how to decorate my bathroom, at my place, though I don't intend to listen to a word of it because I'm not picky about what I'll piss on.

Also, you are a really, really, really great speller. I can just tell. I saw you and thought "Now there goes a woman who knows how to spell beaucoup".

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 11:11 AM (m6c4H)

174 "And my batting average with younger women went way up after 30, somewhat to my surprise.  A trip to the Bennigan's and opening the door to the car and they think they're the Belle of the Ball at the Four Seasons."

OMGWTFLOL

Actually, Guy, I haven't hated your comments in this thread or anything, but this is the funniest thing I'd read in weeks.

A lot of the problem Ace, Allah, et al. have is that they live in NYC -- king alpha capital of the universe.  (Also pseudo-alphas, etc., pf course.)  It's another world.

It scares me that I agree entirely with JackStraw.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 11:11 AM (8WyNq)

175 This being the Internet and anyone being able to make grand claims, a little clarification/illumination is sometimes in order.

Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot with one of his "babes."

More power to you, dude.


Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 11:11 AM (5yNaE)

176 #131-

"As for this, "That's where guys like me begin to have just the glimmer of a chance.  Sadly that chance never seems to grow very much, but at least it is there..."  Well, that's sad.  You're a man.  Go out and get what you want. Mix it up. Take some chances.  How do you or these girls know what they want.  If you love yourself, you should be thinking they'll want you if they got to know you because you'r ea quality person.  Feeling sorry for yourself is just lame and unattractive, even on the internet."

Well, bearing in mind I've been off the market for some time (as in happily married - to an actual woman not a PS3, TIVO etc), I appreciate where you're coming from GWGLA. 

In my younger years I guess I tried being an "alpha male", but I never seemed to get the hang of it - I came off mostly as a strutting braggart with no time for anyone else's opinions.  It did get me some "tail" I guess, but in the mean time I wasn't really taking in the world around me because as far as I was concerned I was the world.  I didn't do any real growing, learning, improving - because I was convinced everyone else just needed to learn to appreciate me and everything would be fine.  I don't even want to think about how many people I alienated, many of whom I'd likely still be in touch with if I just could have gotten over myself sooner.

I'm not saying this is how you are - I don't know you.  You may well not have any flaws at all, for all I know.  I'm just saying that being a "beta male" doesn't automatically have to mean you're a "dweeb" or some kind of second class person; it can simply mean you've decided to worry less about how you "rank" among other males and more on finding some basis for real confidence in yourself - something you keep to yourself.  When I say "guys like me", it's just an attempt at being disarming; for someone like you that may be a total downer and cause you to stay away from me.  If so, that's cool.  I figure the only time it's worth impressing someone is if it happens when I'm not trying to be "impressive".

Posted by: Scott at March 31, 2008 11:12 AM (kSvWi)

177 Women wear brown shoes to a bar? 


Posted by: jen at March 31, 2008 11:15 AM (WhgGR)

178 mesa, are my eyes gonna bleed if I click that?

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 11:16 AM (8WyNq)

179 Ok, Joanie, I'm on your no list. That's a cost, but still, I had to talk to one of you. And who knows, maybe I'll get lucky with the ugly less attractive one. I've still succeeded. How do I pick the one I really want to talk to? Who knows, I've just spotted you across the room, at the end of the bar, coffee shop, whatever. I don't know a thing about either of you. Chances are I'm gonna get shot down in flames anyway (hello, I'm a MORON).

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 11:16 AM (gWoag)

180

Nothing is better than finding yourself an intelligent, attractive, self confident woman who is an absolute whore in the bedroom.

So true. Most women are willing to get really freaky in bed as long you don't make them feel dirty or degraded about it. Which is why I always tell my girlfriend what a beautiful, sexy, wonderful woman she is before I let the ferrets out of their cages.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 11:16 AM (KjTXS)

181 are my eyes gonna bleed if I click that?

No, nothing that bad. 

It just seemed appropriate, if slightly in bad taste.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 11:18 AM (5yNaE)

182 ROFL, mesa - I was thinking that I should track that exact picture down (it was on MCS a few weeks ago) when I saw your comment.  You beat me to it!

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 11:18 AM (jRtPb)

183  It just seemed appropriate, if slightly in bad taste.

No. Even I laughed. That means it's the very definition of good taste.

Posted by: Gabriel at March 31, 2008 11:19 AM (1Ug6U)

184

I just realized that this thread is a rough outline of the sitcom Two and A Half Men.

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2008 11:21 AM (m2CN7)

185 Just your average Bennigan's on a Friday night.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 11:22 AM (5yNaE)

186

" How do I pick the one I really want to talk to? Who knows, I've just spotted you across the room, at the end of the bar, coffee shop, whatever"

I realized my mistake after I posted that.  I did mean pick the one whose face you'd rather see in your lap later (though that's highly unlikely).  So, yeah, you're probably right.  if I were a guy, I probably would pick the one that looks the easiest and most desperate.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 11:24 AM (Z9tCp)

187

I didn't mean to become the 'shoe'-guy, but a stylish pair of shoes never hurts. In fact it's always a good idea to dress a little more fashionably than you think you need to. Your hair, clothes and shoes are the easiest part of you to improve, so why not start there.

 

Maetenloch-

Probably just a matter of semantics.  I didn't mean that people shouldn't try to improve themselves, just not change themselves.  Sure, buy a new pair of shoes.  But if you're a penny loafer guy, get some great penny loafers.  Don't be the penny loafer guy in a pair of metro-sexual Guccis.  Don't be that guy.

One of my best friends growing up was a short, not very athletic nerd, who was one of the most popular guys with the women I have ever seen.  I'm not talking about the dickhead cocksman who thinks belt notches make you cool.  I'm talking about a guy that women of all shapes and sizes wanted to around.  Why?  He was also one of the nicest. most considerate and funniest people I have ever met.  I'm talking stand up funny, and he was completely comfortable with who he was.

He didn't care that he wasn't the captain of the football team, he was too busy laughing with the girls in the stands while we were playing.  He never cared about how stylish he looked, I'm not sure I ever remember him in anything other than jeans and t-shirts.  But everyone liked having him around, guys and girls, cause he was the least drama, most comfortable person you can imagine. 

Just take what you have and make the best with it.  When you are happy with who you are it shows, and that's the sexiest, most attractive way you will ever be.  You may not get the prom queen but most of them aren't worth it anyway.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 11:25 AM (t+mja)

188 Besides, my misadventures in dating are well known.

There's even an entire blog.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 11:25 AM (5yNaE)

189 Bennigan's?

Heh. 

Haha.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 11:26 AM (R8+nJ)

190

Scott, I don't care how much pussy you get or you don't. A kiss from someone you really desire can be a lot more meaningful and sexy than sex with someone you have hardly any interest in.  It's not a numbers game if you don't want it to be.  It doesn't have to be ego driven, and your ego should never depend on validation from some random person you just met. 

But it sucks to see guys (like one of my brothers, for example) try the same old sorry shit and strike out and have women feed their bruised egos with "noble lies" that they're nice, when in fact they're angry, resentful, and quick to turn on women the minute they don't get what they want.  Something needs to change or they need to accept their utter discomfort with a process that should be fun and chiefly about meeting interesting hot women with all the inherent excitement that entails.  It is the betas, not the hot chicks whose "chemistry homework" they do "just to be a good friend" that are being fundamentally dishonest. 

Think how much more honest it is to say after a date or dancing with some hottie at a bar,"I've really enjoyed talking to you.  I feel a real connection here.  And I'd like to take this to the next level . . . Let's go to my place."  No dishonesty there.  It's real, and if it's from the heart, it will get you laid.  But you can just as easily say, "This has been fun.  We should do this again. Let me have your number."  It's up to you.  Nothing wrong with living by some code of honor that puts the brakes on things (indeed, tell a chick "no" to sex and watch your intrigue level go way up).  But some variation of these confident, alpha  approaches are better than, "Will you please like me because you're so beautiful, and I bought you flowers and dinner, and this is my first date in months, and that means I'm entitled to something, right?" which is the message implicit in so much beta behavior.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 11:29 AM (kKFU6)

191 Ugh, better link for "are well known" so you don't have to read backwards up through the comments.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 11:29 AM (5yNaE)

192 Entropy #175, why the need to find something to give a false compliment about? Why not just introduce yourself and start a conversation? Find out if she is worth more than a roll in the hay? Of course, if you are picking up girls in bars, neither of you are probably looking for more than a roll in the hay. The C&W song about all the girls look good at quitting time is true in both directions, doncha know?

And a guy (or gal) who is all flash and no substance is boring and usually an oaf when stripped of his fancy car or other material things. No woman wants a man she has to constantly reassure, who rates himself based on his bank account or his possessions or his looks.


Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 11:36 AM (Wi/N0)

193

<blockquote>"He didn't care that he wasn't the captain of the football team, he was too busy laughing with the girls in the stands while we were playing.  He never cared about how stylish he looked, I'm not sure I ever remember him in anything other than jeans and t-shirts.  But everyone liked having him around, guys and girls, cause he was the least drama, most comfortable person you can imagine. "</blockquote>

When girls hang out with this guy while they're cheering the QBs and RBS on the field and never have sex with him, he's called a "girlfriend."  He's the waterboy of life.  Lots of "nice guys" get stuck in that "friend without benefits" trap.  It's not a good place to be for most men, and it will be very confusing when coupled with the shoulder-to-cry-on role (as the functional equivalent of a girlfriend) with chicks whining about jerks and the lack of nice guys.  It's a particularly loathsome role if your goal is to get laid more than once every three years.

PS  Bennigan's was what you might call a synecdoche.  Surely you know the quality 19 year old pussy gets taken to the Outback at least. 

PPS New York is a funny scene, but I do know there are tons of guys there that are cocky and rich and it's pretty Darwinian. To quote a friend who moved up there, "A million is the new $100,000."  Geez. 

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 11:39 AM (kKFU6)

194 Thanks, Jack M.  I know how a girl that listens to socially-retarded people asking for advice on poop-fetishes and adult diapers a couple hours a day is a real turn-on.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 11:43 AM (Z9tCp)

195 <i>A lot of the problem Ace, Allah, et al. have is that they live in NYC -- king alpha capital of the universe.  (Also pseudo-alphas, etc., pf course.) </i>

A loser's a loser no matter where he is.  Besides, what comfort is it to move to the boondocks and chase women there when you know you couldn't play in the majors?

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 11:45 AM (wsk0o)

196

Joanie, I'd pick you first, too.

 

 

I keed!!

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 11:45 AM (gWoag)

197 It is the betas, not the hot chicks whose "chemistry homework" they do "just to be a good friend" that are being fundamentally dishonest. "

Uh, no guy - "alpha", "beta" or otherwise - goes to all that trouble just to be a "good friend" to a woman.

It's like I said; neither men nor women have the corner on the resentfulness market.  We all have our high and our low moments, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

For every thing that pisses women off about men, there's something else that makes men dismiss women for equally stupid reasons. 

Sure, people can and should all aspire to rise above that kind of thing blah blah blah, but we're not angels.  We all laugh hardest at the darker joke even if it's more inward, we all catch ourselves savoring a bit of schadenfreud (sp?) now and then - this is just being human, not necessarily "angry" or "woman/man hating".

Posted by: Scott at March 31, 2008 11:48 AM (kSvWi)

198

Bennigans won't do it for me.  I needs an all you can eat for my ladies cause you know how I roll.

Posted by: Guy Who Likes Sir Mix-a-Lot at March 31, 2008 11:50 AM (m2CN7)

199 Besides, what comfort is it to move to the boondocks and chase women there when you know you couldn't play in the majors?

What's that stage after denial?  Oh yeah, acceptance. 

A man's gotta know his limits. 

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 11:50 AM (5yNaE)

200

How does the labouring ubernerd find love, and can I help?

www.gk2gk.com

Posted by: TiredWench at March 31, 2008 11:52 AM (Kx1hM)

201

When girls hang out with this guy while they're cheering the QBs and RBS on the field and never have sex with him, he's called a "girlfriend."  He's the waterboy of life.

 

I'll let him know you said so.  He's retired now, IPO stock, and living with his wife and 3 kids.

 

You've watched too many bad movies.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 11:53 AM (t+mja)

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 12:01 PM (5yNaE)

203

Women want you to make the decisions, once you've heard them out.

Ugh. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Posted by: TiredWench at March 31, 2008 12:02 PM (Kx1hM)

204 "Women want you to make the decisions, once you've heard them out.

Ugh. Wrong, wrong, wrong."

Not really; they do want you to make the decisions - either you happen to decide what they hoped you'd decide but didn't say out loud, in which case they can brag about you to their girlfriends for being their soulmate, or else you guess wrong in which case they get to complain about you to their girlfriends for being a thoughtless jerk - drama either way = win/win.

Posted by: Scott at March 31, 2008 12:10 PM (kSvWi)

205 When girls hang out with this guy while they're cheering the QBs and RBS on the field and never have sex with him, he's called a "girlfriend."  He's the waterboy of life.  Lots of "nice guys" get stuck in that "friend without benefits" trap.  It's not a good place to be for most men, and it will be very confusing when coupled with the shoulder-to-cry-on role (as the functional equivalent of a girlfriend) with chicks whining about jerks and the lack of nice guys.  It's a particularly loathsome role if your goal is to get laid more than once every three years.

It works both ways. Being a guy's best friend is okay, but not when you really wish it was much more. They come and tell you about their latest forays with women and you listen and you counsel and you let them cry on your shoulder. They use you to be their sure thing, always there for them as they continue to pursue women who will never be there for them when the chips are down. Even if you both marry someone else, they still come to you for consoling or to talk it out and listen to all their complaints. And then you hear words like, "I should have married you, you understand me, you have always seen my potential and encouraged me, blah blah blah. While you sit there and think, yes you should have, and why didn't you, as they go out the door to pursue their ideal woman who is nothing like you at all.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 12:11 PM (Wi/N0)

206 Like Swahili this thread is to me.

There seems to be a muddling of biology, sociology, pop-psychology, etc.

I mean, if you're with a woman, you're the alpha male, right? We don't run in tribes any more, taking our cues from the strongest ape most willing to bash your head in with an ibix bone, do we? Our "tribe" is pretty much man, woman and children.

Life is really very simple, if that's what you want.

Find the woman you want, treat her well, carry her off. Then starve her for a few weeks so it'll be easier to skin her and make your transformative dress.

Simple.

Posted by: Jame Gumb at March 31, 2008 12:16 PM (dzCBB)

207 sara, guys can be such assholes... let's you and me go someplace quiet and talk about what assholes guys are.

And then maybe try to grab a little piece of happiness together.

And, in this topsy-turvy rat-race world, who's to say what's "wrong" and what's "right"?


/steve_in_hb's pick up lines

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2008 12:20 PM (SXBHu)

208

Christ, this thread has turned into fucking Cosmo or some shit.

Who let the ovaries in?

Girls, the word duplicitous was thought up to describe women. There are no "women best friends". It doesn't happen.

Posted by: Sir Rev. Dr. E Buzz Heinz-Miller-Heinz, Esq at March 31, 2008 12:20 PM (sf4Oe)

209 Heh. 100+ comments in to this thread versus the six women bloggers thread and an observation: We're discussing how best to pick up chicks and "what women want" and they're discussing whether conservatives or liberals are crazier and why too contrasting political views are a deal breaker. Apparently, the standards here really are much lower.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2008 12:21 PM (Uy68a)

210 #206
Oh my God Mesa, That. Was. Brutal.







and pretty much true...

Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2008 12:22 PM (bqcfE)

211 A large bulbous American cock helps.

Posted by: uniball at March 31, 2008 12:23 PM (27iEn)

212 uh, as a guy perceived to be an alpha, I can attest that sometimes the beta can pull a fast one. 

This post may give you false hope at landing a girl that is actually hot and smart and sensitive.

You beta weasels have to learn a move that has been attempted on me several times.  The weasel hijack is pretty high risk as chances are that me, or someone like me, will stomp you into pulp if you are caught.  Actually, I have determined that I will skull fuck the next dweeb that attempts it.  That's right, even though I am straight, I will gain an erection to fuck your eye socket after I gouge your eye out, when I catch you.
As I have seen it done, the Beta (or POSA I called these people for personal reasons) with their sensitivity commences undermining the alpha's relationship with the gal as a friend or coworker.  Something along the lines of "Wow, you and alpha seem so happy, which is good, because I noticed that he drank his beer fast at the party, I've seen couples like you before and usually the guy ends up having a wife in 10 different states while being a drunk wife beater."  or "wow, I guess its ok that you found that joke funny.  I thought that it was secretly hurtful towards you and I think you need to be sure that your boyfriend isn't a child molester." Good POSA's can even coach the girl to break up with alpha once they have convinced them that the current boyfriend is shit, "sure he'll deny cheating on you, you have to be strong and say that you don't believe him."

So, give it a shot, Debbie from accounting can be yours if you try.  Once you catch them after their break up, she is pretty much your for life. 

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 12:23 PM (NXelq)

213 Eh, that should say, "Having a large bulbous American cock helps."

Posted by: uniball at March 31, 2008 12:24 PM (27iEn)

214 /steve_in_hb's pick up line

I thought it was -- "hey, want to meet Ace?"

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 12:28 PM (5yNaE)

215 "hey, want to meet Ace?"


Is that what he's calling it these days...it's his Ace in the hole.

Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2008 12:32 PM (bqcfE)

216 After I was single again and trying out the dating scene for the first time in 30 years, I went out with a guy who (1) picked me up in his Mercedes, (2) took me to dinner at a place where he dropped about $150 for the meal, and (3) had tickets to a popular play at a cost of about $400. I was supposed to be impressed. The play was at a theatre as part of a casino resort and to get to it from the penthouse restaurant, you had to walk through the casino and wind through the slot machines where it was very crowded with lots and lots of people. He walked away and left me running to catch up to him. He never looked back to see if I was right behind him or with him at all. For all he knew, I could have walked out the door, not that that would have occurred to him since he was spending so much money on me. His shabby treatment made me seethe all throughout the play and when he brought me home, I couldn't dump him at the door fast enough. He was shocked that I wasn't inviting him in and that I wasn't willing to pay him back for all the money he spent on me. He said I owed him. He actually told me that I better get with the times, that there are no more free rides for women in the new millennium, you play or else.

I thought about what he said for a long time and decided I didn't care how much the "times" had changed, I hadn't. I still want a man who has enough respect for me, he doesn't leave me in a crowd to fend for myself and doesn't assume I can be bought.


Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 12:34 PM (Wi/N0)

217 If I can't get laid from knowing me I really don't think my friends can either.

>>>Besides, what comfort is it to move to the boondocks and chase women there when you know you couldn't play in the majors?

You're twisted, dude.

I mean, do you want tail because you want tail or do you want tail to show it off to other guys?

Sure, it's a little of column A and a little of column B, but I think one column should be the main course here.




Posted by: ace at March 31, 2008 12:38 PM (SXBHu)

218 "I mean, do you want tail because you want tail or do you want tail to show it off to other guys?"

It's not a question of wanting tail or not wanting it, it's a question of knowing that you've got it for reasons better than "she didn't have a million better options."

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 12:42 PM (wsk0o)

219 >>>Besides, what comfort is it to move to the boondocks and chase women there when you know you couldn't play in the majors?

Well, if you want to play in the majors, you have to practice, be lucky, and be gifted. Seinfeld pointed out that 95% of the population is undateable, so thank God for alcohol.  For you, I mean.

Those girls you lust at probably work out, take an hour a day to put on makeup and do their hair and they don't eat a ton of fat a day.  What have you done?

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 12:42 PM (NXelq)

220

And, in this topsy-turvy rat-race world, who's to say what's "wrong" and what's "right"?

Bogart did it better only he didn't get the woman.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 12:43 PM (t+mja)

221 212 sara, guys can be such assholes... let's you and me go someplace quiet and talk about what assholes guys are.

Aaaaaaaaaaah, Ace, if you were just a few years older or I was a few years younger ....

My daughter says, "Mom, we gotta get you laid!" My son says, "Mom, don't you think we should be looking at assisted care facilities." All a matter of persspective. Me, I'm more with my daughter! <blush>

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 12:43 PM (Wi/N0)

222 Yeah, NYC self delusion is bubbling up here.  Living in a rent control condo in the city doesn't make you donald trump and your skank is not Melania.

And that attitude is what the girls were talking about.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 12:45 PM (NXelq)

223

If I can't get laid from knowing me I really don't think my friends can either.

I'm guessing the 'I know Ace' line only works for very selected crowds like the CPAC reception around 1:45am.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 12:45 PM (QCjwV)

224

Nope. Which is why I'd rather be the center fielder for the KC Royals, than a bench warmer for the Yankees/Mets.

Dude. 

Playing centerfield for the Royals barely even gets you in the park.  A batboy for the Mets is getting more.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 12:49 PM (t+mja)

225 Alpha, Beta, whatever.  My man should be intelligent, ethical, healthy and fit, monogamous, kind, generous, very affectionate and sexual.   No married men, smokers, STDs, or religion, and must be pro-choice and pro-gay rights. 

Only high-quality men need apply.

Posted by: Jacqueline Mackie Paisley Passey at March 31, 2008 12:49 PM (ATBwB)

226 "Apparently, striking out in NYC is better than scoring Daisy Duke in flyover country."

No, just saying that scoring Daisy if she thinks you're a loser but has nothing better to do with her time isn't any great shakes either.  As well as suggesting that moving to some backwater because you can't score any chicks in a city of eight million people is lame beyond all limits of lameness, which includes striking out.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 12:49 PM (wsk0o)

227 My personal male models are the guys from "Flight of the Concords".

Posted by: Eleven at March 31, 2008 12:52 PM (7DB+a)

228 Actually, I have determined that I will skull fuck the next dweeb that attempts it.  That's right, even though I am straight, I will gain an erection to fuck your eye socket after I gouge your eye out, when I catch you.

Dude, that is so gayhotgayhotgayhot...eh, whatever.

Posted by: moviegique at March 31, 2008 12:52 PM (dzCBB)

229

Uh make that male Role models. Heh.

Nevermind

Posted by: Eleven at March 31, 2008 12:54 PM (7DB+a)

230 "Well, if you want to play in the majors, you have to practice, be lucky, and be gifted."

Yeah, and?  What's your point?  All I'm saying here is that it's not worth moving to Alaska to chase skirts if you can't make it in the lower 48.  Not sure what the attitude's about.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 12:56 PM (wsk0o)

231 Look the bottom line is you can be a woman like my best friend, who likes her men young and virile and who says she doesn't want to find them there in the morning. "I don't want to have to pick up his socks in the morning," is one of her favorite remarks. Then there is the other side, more like me, who doesn't want to sleep with a man whose socks I wouldn't want to pick up in the morning or who would expect me to pick up his stinky socks in the first place.

Can you trust them to watch your back and to take point when necessary? Yes or no.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 01:00 PM (Wi/N0)

232

Small pond is where it's at. That's basically my retirement plan. And my marriage plan.

At some point, I shall move to Ubufubustan where, by virtue of having $47.32 and a half-eaten Quarter Pounder W/ Cheese, I will be the Ubufubu Donald Trump and have my pick of the village virgins who lust for American green cards and Levy's jeans.

I shall pick a shy, moderately attractive one.

And then she'll be grateful to me for lifting her and her immediately family out of a life of crushing poverty and disease where her parents would have probably eaten her in order to make it through the brutal Ubufubu winter, only to freeze to death anyway thanks to a heating oil shortage caused by a corrupt despotism, and pretend to love me for it.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 01:03 PM (HgAV0)

233 Watch your back and take point?  I'm there for ya baby.

Posted by: Back Door Man at March 31, 2008 01:04 PM (Tk5HT)

234 >>  All I'm saying here is that it's not worth moving to Alaska to chase skirts if you can't make it in the lower 48.

If that's all you are saying, then never mind.  Peace. 

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 01:04 PM (NXelq)

235 But at least two of them are not above e-panhandling with their Amazon wishlists.

Posted by: LarryHagmansLiver at March 31, 2008 01:07 PM (/X0mo)

236 The whole thread reminds me of the great Nails song 88 lines about 44 women.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 01:09 PM (Tk5HT)

237 You wouldn't want to move to Alaska anyhow, AllahPundit; the gender ratio is slanted against you.  It'd be almost as bad as Silicon Valley.  Oh... shit.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 01:13 PM (PQyeQ)

238 "Seems pretty insulting to Daisy (and to teh "rubes") to me. It's still her in either location. If she digs you, it's great in either place."

I dare say if Daisy told you, "Geez, I can't believe I have to go out with a loser like you.  Where are all the eligible men these days?", it would bug you no matter how hot she is. 

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 01:13 PM (wsk0o)

239 "Daisy, my dear. It may not look like much now, but it'll grow on you."

Posted by: Sven at March 31, 2008 01:17 PM (XjZZY)

240

First, anyone who would move someplace solely to score chicks is pretty sad.

Sad? Yes.

Nailing a hot peasant girl? Also yes.

I'm pretty sure the cool/pathetic loser dichotomy is only relevant as it relates to getting women.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 01:22 PM (HgAV0)

241 This is weird, I've never thought of Allah as a beta male. We all saw his apartment in the I-phone post and there were no Farrah posters, D & D stuff or underwear on the couch....I am really confused now.

If he and Ace are beta males, what the hell are the rest of us?

Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2008 01:24 PM (bqcfE)

242 We all saw his apartment in the I-phone post and there were no Farrah posters, D & D stuff or underwear on the couch....I am really confused now.

Psst! I think that was his parent's home, though I am sure AP has both impeccable taste and picks up his shorts off the couch in his apt., too.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 01:33 PM (achM8)

243 It's not a question of wanting tail or not wanting it, it's a question of knowing that you've got it for reasons better than "she didn't have a million better options."

But she picked you. Why isn't that enough for you? Isn't it more that you have the attitude that you settled for less than the best and never let her forget it? Options, smoptchins. A woman can have a "million better options" in your mind, that doesn't mean she won't pick you for your own uniqueness in her mind. Chemistry has nothing to do with "better options," or money or any of the other things guys think makes the difference.

My Dad died when I was only 13, but he gave me two words of advice on my 13th birthday a few months before his death. He said, now that you are becoming a young woman, remember, "never trust a man who says trust me," and "never be the type of woman a man would be ashamed to take home to his own mother."


Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 01:33 PM (Wi/N0)

244
After reading this long thread, it's safe to say that the moron gene will die out since none of you appear to have the social skills to reproduce.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 01:35 PM (achM8)

245

Not really; they do want you to make the decisions

The problem I have with that is that I am, in fact, a woman, and the absolute last thing I want is a guy to make the decisions. I've already had one of those guys in my life. I call him Dad.

I'm not saying there aren't women out there who are happy to always defer to their partner, but suggesting that women, in the main, want men to be the deciders is, in my experience, super duper wrong, and for men to approach discussions with that presumption as a reference point is a relationship disaster waiting to happen.

Posted by: TiredWench at March 31, 2008 01:35 PM (Kx1hM)

246 "But she picked you. Why isn't that enough for you?"

Why isn't it enough that you don't know whether she's into you for you or just because she -- momentarily -- can't do better?  Ask anyone who's ever been cheated on.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 01:35 PM (wsk0o)

247

Sorry to say , I NEVER believe guys who claim -- what did that chap say, that he gets laid all the time or -- whatever.  Yeah, sure. 

That kind of guy that comes up to you, looks you up and down, and then leans in and says, Hi, I'm Bob.  (In a real deep voice.)  Maybe touches your hand, while he tells you, Good thing you're wearing that color of blue, because it really sets off your eyes.  Want to get a coffee?  (See, he doesn't say a drink right away, but implies -- oh, yeah, implies a lot.) 

Ewwwwwwww!!  That's what I say to that.  Although I have girlfriends who melt over that kind of crap. 

Get real!!  Be normal for goodness sake.  I've met more guys in the grocery line than anywhere.  Also, bec. I'm not looking, it's easy. 

And -- LADIES -- can you be nice to a guy?  I don't understand treating every guy like crap, let the creepy one I mentioned above say his line, laugh at him, and see if maybe he lightens up.  If not, nicely tell him NO. 

Posted by: Kay Novell at March 31, 2008 01:36 PM (Wn04P)

248 I prefer PJ O'rourke's advice:  "it if floats, flies or fucks, rent it."

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 01:36 PM (NXelq)

249

I can't believe it got to #57 before WickedPinto was brought up.  And I also want to know what happened to him.  My guess is that after a botched liquor store holdup resulting in a three-state chase he died in a hail of gunfire in a sleazy motel near the Salton Sea.

Admit it, you all thought it was going to end that way.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 01:43 PM (TUWci)

250 You guys are discussing hypotheticals.  In AllahPundit's hypothetical universe, Daisy is just more desperate than in Jack's.  You're not arguing the same scenario.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 01:48 PM (PQyeQ)

251 Ask anyone who's ever been cheated on.

Now it comes out.

Then why play the game at all?  Shitty stuff happens, there are shitty people everywhere.  It's just a matter of sorting them out of the mix.

On the big city/small city thing, a loser in a big city stands a better chance as he's not going to stand out as much and there's a larger pool of opposite sex losers to share a desperate moment with.  The loser in a small city is just going to get his ass kicked by Daisy's big brother.


Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 01:48 PM (5yNaE)

252 Aren't you setting a hurdle for yourself and a potential Allah-gal that is impossible for you to meet and for them to achieve?

If I were a professional, and I am not, I would call this a symptom of depression and I would encourage my friend to seek professional counseling.
 

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 01:51 PM (achM8)

253 "Aren't you setting a hurdle for yourself and a potential Allah-gal that is impossible for you to meet and for them to achieve?"

No, because my point is simply that you deal with the women available to you.  Somehow we got sidetracked on the point that if you can't make headway with them, you should either move or lower your standards or do whatever you have to in order to get tail.  All I'm saying is, don't lower your standards.  Deal with the field you're on.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 01:53 PM (wsk0o)

254 A woman doesn't cheat because a better option just happened to come along. She cheats because you are a jerk who never made any effort to meet her needs, mostly emotional. If you are hanging around with women who would dump you for a richer, or in your eyes, a better looking or endowed guy, you need to look at your own behavior. If she feels loved, honored, respected, cherished, protected, she isn't going to care about options, millions or not. The quickest way to lose a mate, of either sex, is to make them feel that you settled.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 01:53 PM (Wi/N0)

255 I can't believe it got to #57 before WickedPinto was brought up.  And I also want to know what happened to him.

Heh, he just called me to bitch about a call in the White Sox game. He's been working and says that he had a "bad couple of weeks" or he'd be back.  I think he's a little worried that if he comes back he'll resume his duties as the host of the Late Late Super Late Show at AoS and sleep through the day -- every day.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 01:55 PM (5yNaE)

256 I think women and men cheat because they lack morals and get pleasure  from sneaking about and leading a duplicitous life.  I've never believed it was the other person's fault.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 01:56 PM (achM8)

257 "The quickest way to lose a mate, of either sex, is to make them feel that you settled."

Probably true.  Which would explain the very high rates of infidelity on both sides within the population.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 01:56 PM (wsk0o)

258

There are people that are more attractive.  Some are less.  What's up with this ego-driven alternate universe, "Perhaps her choice of me is not 100% authentic and from the heart" bullshit. Who cares where she's from. Or who else she might have chosen if the cards came out differently. There's beautiful quality women everywhere.  Go find one.

PS NYC Girls are nothing special. I've lived there and I've lived in Dallas and Houston.  The latter are, shall we say, less Carrie and more Charlotte. (God help me for having made that reference.)

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at March 31, 2008 01:57 PM (kKFU6)

259

I wouldn't get too hung up on location. If you've got decent game, you can probably do okay anywhere. The competition might be a little stiffer in big cities, but mostly for 9 and 10s.

Also don't get hung up on the bar scene - that's just one way to meet women and not necessarily the best. If you want a quality woman, you have to go to where they hang out like malls, coffee shops, and bookstores. It's actually easier to approach women in the daytime since their social shields aren't up like in a bar. If you're in more desperate situation, I would recommend food banks, discount liquor stores, and free clinics as places to meet uh, less discerning women.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 01:57 PM (QCjwV)

260 City folk are probably better off staying in the city dating pool, anyways. I like visiting the city, but if a man ever asked me to move there, I'd yell no and gnaw his arm off. The city's for going to shows and drinkin', but it ain't fit for livin'.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 02:02 PM (Yyy1m)

261 ...I would recommend food banks, discount liquor stores, and free clinics...

Damned fine advice...Wheres my car keys.

Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2008 02:04 PM (bqcfE)

262

I NEVER believe guys who claim -- what did that chap say, that he gets laid all the time or -- whatever.

Even if he's telling the truth, so what? With all the foolish, needy, drunk and slutty women in the world, is racking up a high number such a big achievement? It's like a guy bragging that he bagged 10 cheetahs at a canned hunt.

Ewwwwwwww!! That's what I say to that. Although I have girlfriends who melt over that kind of crap.

I know a few like that, too. They're invariably the women who've been planning their I'm-a-princess weddings since they were 5 and who are desperate to be swept off their feet.

Which leads to my one bit of practical advice to the lovelorn male: If you meet a woman who's "in love with love" RUN LIKE HELL. You will never be able to live up to her demented romantic delusions.

Posted by: TiredWench at March 31, 2008 02:07 PM (Kx1hM)

263 Oh, BTW, I am flu blogging, sick as I've ever been, so I should not be held responsible for any idiocy I might have posted, including flirting with Ace.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 02:13 PM (Wi/N0)

264 Yeah, chances are that in every relationship, there is one person who "can do better."  It took me years to grow out of that mindset, but I think its an important step.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 02:15 PM (NXelq)

265 Deal with the field you're on.

Which is why, to me, a larger city is a much better playing field in general.  Much larger talent pool -- for whatever your level.

I moved from a very large city to just a large city and noticed a huge drop off in the number of people that I met who are "dateable".  Perhaps I was spoiled, but I went from meeting interesting and attractive women almost every time I went out or through friends to being lucky if that happened once a month -- if that.  When you are used to filet mignon, hamburger is not as appealing.  It depends on what you like.  I like moderately attractive, independent women who can string together a series of original thoughts.  They seem to be drawn in much greater numbers to the larger cities for the obvious reasons. 

Well, that and  I moved from Chicago to Detroit.  Detroit just pretty much sucks.  The attitude of a lot of the women  (who were not smart enough to leave) here matches the environs. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal.

But, no matter where you live, it's just a matter of patience and perseverance to meet someone that is at least worth taking a chance with. But, you have to make it happen, no one is going to force you to date them. 

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 02:15 PM (5yNaE)

266

  All I'm saying is, don't lower your standards. 

Why not?

 The quickest way to lose a mate, of either sex, is to make them feel that you settled.

I don't get this modern take on romance. Of course you've settled. Allways. Everyone. Otherwise, you're still friggin single, and your name is Jackie Mackey Paisley Packey.

Once upon a time you just married someone. Anyone. Had to find someone. It was like when kids get to pick their "groups" on a science project. The 2 people left over at the end - defacto teammates. And divorce rates were alot lower.

If you went around taking this tact with everything else in your life, never settling for less then your ideal, you'd either A) (.5%) have books written about you, or (B) (99.5%), never have shit and be effectively disfunctional.

Want a Ferrarri? Don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars? Why, whatever you do, don't settle! A Dodge Neon? Hell no.

 No, go into debt. Yah, that's the ticket. Borrow money you can't pay back. Or just refuse to drive altogether. Because having no car, ever, is really better then having a Neon.

I think standards these days are entirely too high and people need to settle more. And there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody tosses out that word 'settle' like it's dirty or something.

Again, you settle all the time. You settled on your car. Settle means "adequate". "Sufficient".  Ideal means unrealistic. Ideals are shifting, too - even if you happen to acquire it, the moment it's acquired it changes.

Good enough is good enough. And then you make it work.

What we've got is issues with infatuation, equating it to love and devotion (which it is not), assuming love happens accidentally or by chemistry, or lasts forever without by itself without actually trying.  

Stupid modern ideas about 'romance' is what has destroyed the institution of marriage.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 02:17 PM (HgAV0)

267 I don't know what's wrong with me, but I'm enjoying this thread almost as much as the Fitna thread where Ace started banning people.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 31, 2008 02:17 PM (Uuy++)

268 The scary thing is, I actually understood what a guy friend said to me when he told me he wanted to be a woman's knight on the white horse, but he never wanted a woman who "needed" to be rescued.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 02:18 PM (Wi/N0)

269 If you meet a woman who's "in love with love" RUN LIKE HELL. You will never be able to live up to her demented romantic delusions.

They're usually pretty crappy at -- love, as well.  I banged my head against that wall once.  Learned my lesson.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 02:18 PM (5yNaE)

270 I don't know what's wrong with me, but I'm enjoying this thread almost as much as the Fitna thread where Ace started banning people.

You are one sick puppy.  But, doesn't it give you a sense of deja vu? This isn't the only thread over the years about a certain deity's dating woes. What's the point?

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 02:23 PM (achM8)

271 "It works both ways. Being a guy's best friend is okay, but not when you really wish it was much more."

Ah, the travails of the beta female.  Not good -- and not discussed much.

"As I have seen it done, the Beta (or POSA I called these people for personal reasons) with their sensitivity commences undermining the alpha's relationship with the gal as a friend or coworker."

Yeah, but he never gets the girl afterwards.  Also, female "friends" and co-workers pull that passive-aggressive undermining *all the time*.

"No, just saying that scoring Daisy if she thinks you're a loser but has nothing better to do with her time isn't any great shakes either."

Dude, you really think people in the boonies go around *thinking* they're pathetic provincials with no interesting options in life?

"And then she'll be grateful to me for lifting her and her immediately family out of a life of crushing poverty and disease where her parents would have probably eaten her in order to make it through the brutal Ubufubu winter, only to freeze to death anyway thanks to a heating oil shortage caused by a corrupt despotism, and pretend to love me for it."

"Eddie!  I... want... half!"

"Ewwwwwwww!!  That's what I say to that.  Although I have girlfriends who melt over that kind of crap."

Well, right.  The guys are talking about scoring with them.  And there are a lot of "them".

"There are people that are more attractive.  Some are less.  What's up with this ego-driven alternate universe, "Perhaps her choice of me is not 100% authentic and from the heart" bullshit."

Allah loves rationalizing his "never try" lifestyle.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 02:23 PM (2z2WN)

272

A woman doesn't cheat because a better option just happened to come along. She cheats because you are a jerk who never made any effort to meet her needs, mostly emotional.

Strongly disagree with you there. It may have been true 50 years ago, but one of the consequences (or benefits, depending on your pov) of feminism is that women now feel free to cheat for many of the same reasons that men always have. Novelty, selfishness, general horniness.

Blaming the guy for not meeting her emotional needs is no different, imo, than a guy claiming "my wife doesn't understand me."

Posted by: TiredWench at March 31, 2008 02:23 PM (Kx1hM)

273 "No, go into debt. Yah, that's the ticket. Borrow money you can't pay back."

No, just don't buy a car.  There's never been a time in human history more amenable to singledom than right now.  There are a million distractions out there.  Avail yourself.  You're equating relationships with cars when the two aren't similarly situated.  Someone may need a car to commute or to get around; if so, you treat it like a necessity and get the best deal you can, just like you do with your house or apartment.  Relationships shouldn't be an absolute necessity; they should be a luxury, in which case you get what you want and if you can't get it, you pass.  Apples and oranges.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 02:24 PM (wsk0o)

274

Women men should avoid:

Those who want to live like the twits on Sex in the City.

Regular Oprah watchers.

Those who wear heels over 2" to work (whether that be a regular office or strippers).

Paris Hilton.

 

Men women should avoid:

Pretty much all of us.  All women should be lesbians.  Just let us watch.

 

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 02:25 PM (Tk5HT)

275 "What kind of guy do you think about when you are with your husband?"
My husband.  (Thinking about someone else while "with" a person is beyond lame.)

"What kind of guy did you cheat on your husband/boyfriend with?"
Cheat?
 
"What ex are you still not quite over?"
I'd have to go back to high school for an "ex" and while only one of them was a "jerk" I'm quite over the others.

For what it's worth, my computer geek techno-nerd of a husband managed to get my attention by, 1) being persistent, which would normally have meant never speaking to him again except that I couldn't bear to not speak to him no matter how sooooo not interested I was (which ought to have been a clue) and 2) joining the Air National Guard and coming back many months later with a short hair cut, glasses sans tape, and muscles.

But I never liked the "bad boys".   That seems just as much a put on as the "metrosexual" liberated man.   I liked big guys with muscles.   If I had to say which actors appeal to me it's never the pretty boys.   Well, not *never* but I find popularity a put off.   Really.   My reaction to Fabio when he was hot was, "Eww... finger grease" like the kind of crud that builds up on piano keys.   My reaction to expensive suits and expensive hair cuts is nearly revulsion, and ambition... well, I'd rather not be second place in a driven life.   (Which is what I think of as "Alpha" but apparently that's not how you morons use the term.)


Posted by: Synova at March 31, 2008 02:25 PM (KZJr+)

276 Entropy,

I hope you will be very happy with your Neon.  I have no delusions about a Ferrari, but a Lexus is definitely within reach.  And, I'll be very happy.

I already took the Chevy route.  Sucked.  You can't wake up every morning dreading the rest of your life.

Settling is not the answer.  At least not for me. My expectations are no higher for someone else than they are for myself.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 02:26 PM (5yNaE)

277 Good for you, Synova.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 02:29 PM (achM8)

278 Incidentally, I wasn't saying that NYC is a bad place to meet women.  It's not, except for the local epidemic of virulent BDS.  But it IS a place where the competition in the whole alpha game is major league.  For those -- like Allah and some of the posters above -- who are obsessed with that sort of thing, it can be rough.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 02:30 PM (2z2WN)

279 I have lived in the boonies, hell grew up there, with a few exceptions I think there is a pretty even number of single males and females in any given us city.  I think what makes "new guys" score in smaller areas is not there are no other guys.  It is more like new guys represent someone haven't known since you were in pre-school. 

It is sort of like being the new "guy in your bigger city high school" except it is the new "guy in your zip code." 


Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 02:30 PM (4xBEr)

280 The quickest way to lose a mate, of either sex, is to make them feel that you settled.

I don't get this modern take on romance. Of course you've settled. Allways. Everyone. Otherwise, you're still friggin single, and your name is Jackie Mackey Paisley Packey.

I never said anything about not settling, I said never let them feel you settled. That's the killer in a relationship. No one ever wants to feel 2nd best to the person they've chosen to give their all to. It is usually an insult that can never be overcome.

The marriage vows say, "in SICKNESS and in health, for richer or POORER, in good times and BAD." If you aren't willing to be there when they are sick, or broke or the fates have conspired against you for whatever reason, then do yourselves both a favor and move on.



Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 02:30 PM (Wi/N0)

281 "But it IS a place where the competition in the whole alpha game is major league."

Yeah, but it's clarifying.  You know where you stand.  I'm never under any illusions about it.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 02:33 PM (wsk0o)

282 I should add, in all sincerity, that it's very useful to me to know if/when a woman's into rich guys like lawyers and investment bankers.  "Someone" is treating NYC as though it's a minefield of alphas, but having alphas around is actually a great help in finding out what kind of woman you're dealing with.  If she's into money, that's cool; I don't fault her one bit.  But I'd rather know that up front.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 02:40 PM (wsk0o)

283 Well I'm off to go back to bed and fantasize about Kirk Russell. I'll leave you with this - I can't imagine meeting someone in a bar and expecting them to be anything but a quickie one night stand.

When I was in my late twenties and working at a large daily newspaper, my girlfriends and I got the stupid idea to run a personal "want to meet" ad as a lark. Most of us were married, so it was a dumb dumb prank. We described ourself as an average woman, average looks, average height/weight, and a few other things that made us sound like we were really not much, looking for same. We ran it for a week and got no responses. The second week we added one sentence, "Charger (we were in San Diego) season tickets a plus." We got over 60 responses, and nearly every one of them said they liked a gal who liked football.

For what it is worth.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 02:44 PM (Wi/N0)

284 Wait, is that... hope I sense?  The realization that all women aren't totally the same?  From Allah?

Naah, can't be.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 02:44 PM (2z2WN)

285 "Wait, is that... hope I sense?  The realization that all women aren't totally the same?  From Allah?"

I don't.  I think we're all as good as our options.  Some women will have better options than others; having alphas around helps you figure out who's eyeing whom.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 02:46 PM (wsk0o)

286 Which, incidentally, shouldn't be confused with hope.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 02:46 PM (wsk0o)

287

It's threads like this that make me miss Wickedpinto.  We'd be knee deep in broken bitches by now.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 02:54 PM (t+mja)

288

Someone may need a car to commute or to get around; if so, you treat it like a necessity and get the best deal you can, just like you do with your house or apartment.  Relationships shouldn't be an absolute necessity; they should be a luxury, in which case you get what you want and if you can't get it, you pass.  Apples and oranges.

Someone might need a car to get around and they might not - they still get a car. I mean come on - bullshit.

Let's assume you don't need a car. Hell you live in NY, you can't find a place to park your car. You really really want a lambo to drive around on the weekends.

But you know damn well you can't afford one, you'll never be able to afford one, and even if you got one you couldn't afford the upkeep. Those things weren't meant to be daily drivers. They break down rather easily and are quite costly to repair.

So, you're just going to go carless? No. You're going to settle, and buy a mustang. Or buy a used mustang. And be happy with it. And enjoy driving it on the weekends, even though it isn't a lambo or a porsche which you'd never really have, and take pride in it.

Either that, OR, you rent the lambo for one weekend a month. Basically the Elliot Spitzer route.

But one way or another you're probably not going to stomp your feet and demand all or nothing.

A neon may be a neccessity but a mustang (which sure as hell isn't a Ferrari) never is. It's less, way way less, then what you'd really really want. But more then you need.

Because at the end of the day, if you go for the ideal, 95% of the population want to mate with the same 10%.

And you can see that does not work.

It's the same thing with jobs - 'go for your dream job!'/'do you really want to do and love doing and DON'T SETTLE!'.

Sorry, but society does not have room for 80% of it's workforce to be playboy photographers, game designers, astronauts, spies, and firemen.

If society at large actually operated on this advice it would cease to operate entirely.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 02:54 PM (HgAV0)

289 "So, you're just going to go carless? No. You're going to settle, and buy a mustang. Or buy a used mustang. And be happy with it."

No, you walk.  It's NYC.  Everyone walks anyway.  I can't understand the logic, at all, of settling for someone you don't really want.  It escapes me utterly.  The next time your loved one tells you he loves you, be sure to look in his eyes and say back, "Yeah, you're ok."

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 02:56 PM (wsk0o)

290 Yeah, but it's clarifying.  You know where you stand.  I'm never under any illusions about it.

And,

Which, incidentally, shouldn't be confused with hope.

Ok, I'm officially depressed now.  Thanks.

OTOH, holy jeebus Allah, where the heck do you hang out?  I've met tons of awesome women in NYC, on the island and elsewhere.

NYC is like a smorgasbord of female yumminess.  The gold diggers can be spotted a mile away and easily ignored.  That only leaves about two million other chicks that are worth a chance.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 02:59 PM (5yNaE)

291 Bitter, drunk, and desperate is no way to go through life son.

Posted by: Dean Wormer at March 31, 2008 02:59 PM (Tk5HT)

292 Oh, and in case you forgot.  Girls are fun. Usually. Sometimes.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 03:02 PM (5yNaE)

293 "I've met tons of awesome women in NYC, on the island and elsewhere."

Eh, well, that's tons more than me.  I'm not trying to complain here; it's all good.  Just think it's an interesting subject and I get a little annoyed about dopey comments about "settling."  Sorry if I came off bitter.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 03:04 PM (wsk0o)

294 Allah, nobody walks in LA

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 03:04 PM (gWoag)

295

Where's steve_in_hb when you need him to respond to this kind of stupidity:

265 A woman doesn't cheat because a better option just happened to come along. She cheats because you are a jerk who never made any effort to meet her needs, mostly emotional. If you are hanging around with women who would dump you for a richer, or in your eyes, a better looking or endowed guy, you need to look at your own behavior. If she feels loved, honored, respected, cherished, protected, she isn't going to care about options, millions or not. The quickest way to lose a mate, of either sex, is to make them feel that you settled.

WTF?  Of course this may explain it:

My daughter says, "Mom, we gotta get you laid!"

Will somebody take this one for the team? 

No takers? 

 

Posted by: not_steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 03:04 PM (SsvUp)

296

I have absolutely no idea what you people are talking about.

This is like, my second semester of German class.

 

Totally lost.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 03:05 PM (Kz86N)

297 Bitter, drunk, and desperate is no way to go through life son.

Bingo.

Posted by: Guy Ritchie's Career at March 31, 2008 03:05 PM (achM8)

298 Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 08:05 PM (Kz86N)

Heh. It's been over a decade since I was in the land of the single.

This is all strange and confusing to me.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 03:08 PM (lhFDi)

299

if I ever meet a woman that is into computers and politics, who has no outstanding warrants for her arrest, but does have all of her teeth, i'd do whatever it took, give up smoking, wear fancy shoes. But the only women i've ever meet that are into computers and politics are online, do they actually exist in the real world, lol

 

 

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 03:09 PM (docNz)

300

Allah, then you're single and that's that. Again, everybody, 90% of the population, really wants to mate with 10%. The same 10%.

It. Won't. Work. Most of you are getting left out entirely. If that's really preferable, well, good for you.

But if everyone acted like that? That 10% usually doesn't get (or if they do, stay) married. And neither would anybody else.

And you get whatever goes along with that. If any of you social cons think marriage is the foundation of society, well, take a guess.

Same thing with jobs - you make do with what you can get. If everyone held out for "Porn star who gets payed to bone chicks on camera" we'd have no economy, and, consequently, no porn.

Because NO ONE grows up saying "I want to get bossed around by an idiot douchebag for 8 hours a day" or fantasizes about filing TPS reports.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 03:10 PM (HgAV0)

301

Haben Sie eine Lederhosen?

Is that like, what time is it?

 

fuck.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 03:11 PM (Kz86N)

302 We are in Texas, Dave... I am kind of lost too. 


Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:11 PM (4xBEr)

303 Speaking of Alpha males, I just publicly called out my friend Bruce on my blog.  He had the nerve to do something so heinous I am not sure he can redeem himself.  It is a dark time for men...  Click at your own risk.

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:13 PM (4xBEr)

304

If you're in a relationship you're perfectly satisfied with, here's a fun thing to do:

In a public hook-up type place (bar, gym, etc), make good eye contact with a woman, then totally ignore her.  Confuses the hell out of them.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 03:14 PM (Tk5HT)

305 "Again, everybody, 90% of the population, really wants to mate with 10%. The same 10%.

It. Won't. Work. Most of you are getting left out entirely. If that's really preferable, well, good for you."

Take a look at the ever growing numbers of single people.  For many, it is preferable.  And the more distractions there are, the more preferable it'll be.  It all comes down to how well one deals with a lack of companionship.  If it's really tough then you make the compromises you need to make and accept your role as a consolation prize.  If it isn't, then you look to other things.

Posted by: Allah at March 31, 2008 03:16 PM (wsk0o)

306 Click at your own risk.

Oh, the horror!

Poor guy.  I hope his wife gives his balls back sometime soon.  You really can't keep those things in formaldehyde all that long.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 03:17 PM (lhFDi)

307 Just be yourself and try not to fart on the first date.


Posted by: eman at March 31, 2008 03:19 PM (0AZ4a)

308 Slublog...

I was devastated when I got the news.  He was such a good man. 

If you choice as a man is stay single or commit to The Act That Shall Not Be Named, you are better off single, guys. 

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:19 PM (4xBEr)

309

WTF?  Of course this may explain it:

My daughter says, "Mom, we gotta get you laid!"

Will somebody take this one for the team? 

No takers?

You wish. I don't go for prepubescent mouthbreathers, who miss the point.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 03:19 PM (Wi/N0)

310 Women are hardwired to want socially dominant males. We call em Alphas. Alpha males are no smarter, or high achieving, than other males. [Betas would include Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Joe Montana, and Bill Walsh. Alphas would include Jack Welch and Mike Ditka.] What they have is the ability, often through early puberty and better socio-economic standards, to be the socially dominant, confident male who controls the social group.

Confidence can't be faked or learned for any length of time, a man is either very early on the socially dominant male in his group (from puberty onwards or he is not). And unconstrained by external factors, this is what Women Want.

Essentially, polygamy. A few socially dominant men being chased by most women. You can see evidence of this in the female beauty arms race, where plastic surgery and cosmetics and such spending is increasing every year. Girls in their teens getting breast implants. Women will share dominant men though they don't like it. They prefer that to exclusive access to Betas. In some sense Alphas having other women confirm their Alpha status -- other women want them too! See Bill Clinton.

"Beta" males used to do well, because women were constrained from making choices exclusively for bad-boy social dominance, which I agree is not arrogance or jerkiness but can induce it. You can be as "confident" as you can fake, have lots of money and physique, it won't matter unless you are seen as the socially dominant male in your group. Because that's all that women select on. A metrosexual gay makeover won't help. Nor will much of anything else, since most men can't fake their way through life with a different persona in a relationship with a woman. Pick up for sex? Yes. There is a reason these pickup artists like Mystery and such can't keep relationships going. Women see eventually that they do not dominate their social group and dump them.

Again, by definition there are a limited number of socially dominant males. That's what women want and will get.

The consequences of this of course are far reaching. Betas won't reproduce so that boring engineer won't have a son who'll find the cure for certain cancers, heart disease, or so on. Within a generation or so the reproductive penalty for not being male and socially dominant will result in something along the lines of "Idiocracy." With, in the meantime, a healthy dose of misogyny along the lines of Islam by the Beta losers who won't like either the Alphas or the women they choose. [The flip side of choosing for Alphas is that all that counts for women is beauty. Not brains.]

[As late as 25-30 years ago social mores frowned on women choosing bad boy social dominant males, for the most part, and women could get stuck with a kid and limited economic prospects for her kid through more limited abortion and welfare states and limited (compared to men) earnings and career. Improvements in these areas while laudable are a two-edged sword. They also allow women to choose what they are hard-wired to want, evolutionary-wise, without consequences. Therefore, sorry Sara, your experiences are irrelevant because social rules for women's selection simply changed too much.]

So what's a Beta to do (which is pretty much most men)?

1. Substitute: porn, sports, entertainment etc.
2. There is no number 2.
3. Carefully assess potential women who for one reason or another are not seeking an Alpha. Though the number of women doing this will be vanishingly small and every other Beta will be chasing her as well.
4. Your best bet is #1.
5. Sex bots!

Posted by: Jim Rockford at March 31, 2008 03:23 PM (4878o)

311 This Sara is wise in the ways of ball-crushing.  I will buy her.  How much for the Sara?

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2008 03:23 PM (0AZ4a)

312

if I ever meet a woman that is into computers and politics, who has no outstanding warrants for her arrest, but does have all of her teeth

Oh you almost described me, but then you said, "but does have all of her teeth" and so now I'm just gonna go cry myself to sleep again. After I consume my pureed dinner.

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 03:26 PM (f3xJa)

313 pjm -

How about a nice gumjob?

Posted by: steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 03:27 PM (7FHPf)

314 Gumjob?  I wonder if Spitzer would have had to pay extra for that? 

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:29 PM (4xBEr)

315

Here's the problem Allah - I'm arguing with you but I don't disagree with you.

That's not advice for finding someone.

Which is what most people seemed to be talking about.

My advice was, if you want to find someone, you need to settle.

To which you're telling me, don't settle, just stay single/without anyone.

OK.

But in the context of 'finding a chick', that's sort of like dealing with the illegal immigration problem by declaring them all legal. You've just redefined the 'problem' so it wasn't.

Whatever. If you want to be single, be single.

But if you want to find someone, settle. Settle and make do.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 03:30 PM (HgAV0)

316

Gee, did I hit a nerve. 

Listen, just because you can't get any don't get your short, grays in a knot.  You obviously don't know what your talking about and your comment was rude, lame and judgemental, that's when its time for steve_in_hb to smack you down. 

Maybe I'll say his name three times and conjure him here. 

The simple fact is that you are the passive agrressive douche who thinks she's smart, but isn't.

You're right toots, its the guys out there with a problem, not you.

Posted by: not_steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 03:30 PM (SsvUp)

317 If you're happy with your situation with women, yeah don't do anything, but if you're not, at least consider changing something.

Exactly right.  That's why when I used to know even less about women than I do know, I found the cliche "just be yourself" to be the most useless and stupid piece of advice on Earth -- not to mention patronizing as all fuck.  I was being myself, which was all I knew how to be, and it just wasn't working.

And anybody who would tell a guy doing obvious things wrong (including but not limited to unfortunate grooming / fashion choices, tone-deaf banter / conversation skills, behavior and body language that projects an air of neediness, lack of confidence, or otherwise unworthiness, saying inappropriate things that turn women off, picking conversation topics that bore women, etc.(*)) that his problem is just that he's "not comfortable with who he is" is either (1) not really aware of what the person's real problem is and is just applying some sort of pat one-size-fits-all response to the situation, or (2) not really interested in helping at all.  Do you think it's telling someone to not be true to himself to do things like update his wardrobe a bit, get the back of his neck trimmed, pay attention to body language, and to be aware that many women may actually enjoy fart jokes, but not necessarily on the first date? 

(*) I won't say which of these used to be my problem(s).  You could ask the hussy I brought home Saturday night whether I'm still afflicted with any of them.

Posted by: Alex at March 31, 2008 03:31 PM (fgyj8)

318 I was devastated when I got the news.  He was such a good man.

"Was."

Heh.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 03:32 PM (lhFDi)

319

Allah doesn't placate.

He just cries bitter tears after drinking himself into a stupor thinking about that woman from 12 years ago who was mean to him.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 03:32 PM (Tk5HT)

320

#323

please don't cry,

i'll pay for the denist, and we'll live happily ever after,

 

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 03:32 PM (docNz)

321 ...that's when its time for steve_in_hb to smack you down. 

Maybe I'll say his name three times and conjure him here. 

I'm not a plaything at the beck and call of mere mortals.





Posted by: steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 03:37 PM (7FHPf)

322

Was is ein Clitoris?

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 03:37 PM (Kz86N)

323 ein clitoris sounds like an inflammation of some sort... get it checked. 

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:38 PM (4xBEr)

324

But if you want to find someone, settle. Settle and make do.

Ok maybe settle just isn't the best word you know? How about rethinking your priorities? No?

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 03:39 PM (f3xJa)

325

#323

please don't cry,

i'll pay for the denist, and we'll live happily ever after,

 

Be still my beating heart.

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 03:40 PM (f3xJa)

326

It's not you, it's me!

(I can't believe 334 comments in, noone has done this schtick)

Posted by: George Costanza at March 31, 2008 03:40 PM (Tk5HT)

327 Wo ist der Clitoris?  Is es wichtig?

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 03:41 PM (Kz86N)

328

ein clitoris sounds like an inflammation of some sort... get it checked. 

Somebody call me?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2008 03:41 PM (t+mja)

329 Jen, Slu:  you mean people actually do that?  I thought it was just girls in high school, and movies about high school.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 03:41 PM (2z2WN)

330 How do I pick the one I really want to talk to? Who knows, I've just spotted you across the room, at the end of the bar, coffee shop, whatever. I don't know a thing about either of you.

You can't pick the one you want to home in on in advance unless the choice is obvious (i.e., one of them is totally unacceptable or has a wedding ring on).  Don't ignore either of them, on the off chance that the one you thought you wanted at first isn't interested or has a boyfriend -- as Joanie said, nobody likes being the second choice.  Or on the off chance that you could pull both of them.  (This happens a lot less often than male-fantasy-entertainment would have you believe, but it's not unheard-of either.  Hasn't happened to me yet, but on the off-chance that this is the one night in a million, I'd never rule the possibility out off the bat.)  You've got to engage both of them without showing a preference, just being a fun guy, and during the course of the conversation it will become apparent which one is the one for you, if either one is.  They may decide between themselves when they go to the bathroom together or you go to the bar to get a round of drinks, but it will become apparent eventually.

Posted by: Alex at March 31, 2008 03:42 PM (fgyj8)

331 what can i say, i'm a romantic, lol

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 03:42 PM (docNz)

332 A woman doesn't cheat because a better option just happened to come along. She cheats because you are a jerk who never made any effort to meet her needs, mostly emotional.

Not cheating is either a priority for someone or it's not.  It has a lot more to do with that person than the person he/she's dating.  If you're acting like enough of a jerk to cause someone to cheat, you're acting like enough of a jerk to cause them to leave.  Acting like a jerk, though, really isn't a prerequisite.  In general, if a girl will cheat on one guy, she'll cheat on the next guy, etc. (same with a guy) They've justified it for themselves and causing that person not to cheat wouldn't just be a matter of changing yourself, but changing their whole worldview.

Re: NY: It's a great place to be single.  It's a great place to hook up.  As far as actually getting into a longterm relationship up here (or more accurately finding someone worth it), that's more difficult.  I'm more negative on it than some of you guys.

I grew up in the South and lived the last few years here and (just my opinion) I still think my home state has it beat by a mile.

Posted by: AD (acting as local corporate shill) at March 31, 2008 03:43 PM (vYzH/)

333 As to settling...  If it is any consolation women definitely do a bit of priority rearranging as they get older.  What I wanted single at 23 was not what I wanted single at 35.  I do not think I settled on anything with my husband, but I would never have dated him at 23.  That doesn't mean he wasn't a great guy, just means I was a dumbass woman, as even the best of us tend to be at that age. 

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:43 PM (4xBEr)

334

#266 mesablue - no gunfight at a slaeazy motel near the Salton Sea?

He is so slacking off!

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 03:45 PM (TUWci)

335 Jen, Slu:  you mean people actually do that?  I thought it was just girls in high school, and movies about high school.

Full disclosure...my wife engages in...that activity.

I was tricked into allowing it - she let me buy an Xbox.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 03:46 PM (lhFDi)

336 Wo ist der Clitoris?  Is es wichtig?

Woe is her Clitoris?  It is bewitched?   You definitely should see someone about that.  I am thinking a doctor and a priest.


Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:46 PM (4xBEr)

337

Ok maybe settle just isn't the best word you know? How about rethinking your priorities? No?

No.

Why avoid the truth? That's the problem. "settle" shouldn't elicit such negative connotations. That's a symptom of the problem. That everyone views it as such a bad thing that it needs to be sugarcoated. It's reality.

Nobody gasps when they settle on the nice, nifty, functional sound surround system instead of the ludicrously expensive one. You settle all the damn time.

And when I say "the problem" it's that it isn't just this thread full of dating advice in this big old world. As Allah said, more and more people are single, and it's not all by choice. There's a whole market to cater to people who chronically can't ever find anyone they're happy with, full of tricks and gimmicks. Plus the climbing divorce rate, and all that.

I think we have a problem with unreasonable societal expactations of what marriage and relationships are suppose to be.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 03:47 PM (HgAV0)

338 It's called growing up Jen .. happens to all of us.  Everyone past a certain age (varies from person to person) looks back and cringes at a lot of their past choices.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 03:47 PM (Tk5HT)

339

#305  Missing Persons.  Nobody Walks in LA.

Now that everyone knows how old I am...

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 03:48 PM (TUWci)

340 Slu,

But she doesn't make YOU do it, does she?  Tell me no... please.  I cannot take another disappointment today.  I am fragile and delicate and shit like that.

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:48 PM (4xBEr)

341 and I get a little annoyed about dopey comments about "settling."

I don't get that either.  But, I'm fourteen years divorced and happily single.  There is nothing better on the planet than the love of a good woman, though. And, I'll never give up the pursuit of it.  It's also going to have to be pretty near perfect damn good before I jump in with both feet.  And, I have no idea how old you are,  anything under 35 in NYC is right in the prime of singledome. So, different rules may apply. Doesn't mean you can't play the field as hard and heavy as you can.  Not all of the time, but most of the time the chase can be as much fun as the catching.

But if you want to find someone, settle. Settle and make do.

Entropy.

No. No. No and No!

Perfect recipe for disaster.  Unless you have zero expectations for yourself or whatever extensions of your DNA you and your Neon might create.  Relationships are a challenge and holding yourself to the level expected to make it work is part of the challenge.  It's also part of the reward.  That deep trust and caring doesn't just come out of thin air. It's earned.  And, it's my belief that the payoff more than justifies the effort.  But, if you are easily satisfied and just want a warm body to keep you warm without all of the great things that can come from truly knowing someone that you respect and cherish -- your call.

You'll regret it, though.


Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 03:49 PM (5yNaE)

342 But she doesn't make YOU do it, does she?

Thank heavens, no.  I'm alpha enough to avoid that, at least.

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 03:53 PM (lhFDi)

343

I do not think I settled on anything with my husband, but I would never have dated him at 23.  That doesn't mean he wasn't a great guy, just means I was a dumbass woman, as even the best of us tend to be at that age

Exactly, very well put jen.

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 03:53 PM (f3xJa)

344 How about rethinking your priorities? No?

When I was young and single, I looked at guys as gene pools. How would their genes mix with mine to assure we didn't have ugly or stupid kids.

As I matured, I judged men on the type of fathers they were, did they shoulder their share of keeping the home, and now, my priorities have changed again to will they climb the ladder so I don't have to, can he rewire my phone or cable so I can put my computer/home office in the one room that has no outlet, or will they hang around the car repair shop for hours waiting to have my tires rotated. And if my powers of observation are any judge, then the next stage will be, will he be there when I've had my heart attack or hip replacement surgery,  will he find my teeth when I forget where I left them, will he change my diapers.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 03:54 PM (Wi/N0)

345 Ok, I am a little depressed now, Sara. That said, make sure you do not get your teeth and his confused.  Just sayin..

Posted by: Jen at March 31, 2008 03:59 PM (4xBEr)

346 ...will he change my diapers.

Will you reciprocate? Dress like a bosomy German  hausfrau and whisper comforting things in my ear while you hold me. And then change my soiled diaper with practiced efficiency. And, you know, help me with you hand because I am a man.


Posted by: steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 04:01 PM (7FHPf)

347

all of the great things that can come from truly knowing someone that you respect and cherish

*jumps up and down for joy

I just knew there was a warm, beating heart somewhere in that deep, frozen wasteland you call a chest cavity.

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 04:01 PM (f3xJa)

348 Settling means John Davidson is too old and no longer fits in a velvet leisure suit. I'm not really upset, though. He didn't even have a mustache.

Posted by: Joanie at March 31, 2008 04:01 PM (Yyy1m)

349 He is so slacking off!

No doubt.

He more than makes up for it with late night calls to me and PattyAnn.

He needs to get back online -- for my sake.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 04:02 PM (5yNaE)

350

All these years I was sure the Germans had another word for clitoris.  Gestonganginingwoot.  Something.

I learn something new every day.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 04:04 PM (Kz86N)

351

i'm not so crazy about the idea of "settling" but i can certainly agree with the different priorities as you get older, my idea of what "attractive" is has definitely changed over the years, when i was in my 20's i was as shallow as anyone else, but now that i'm in my 40's it's seems more important to me that whoever i meet must have some interests that we can share.

my dream = someone who i actually enjoy hanging out with

my nightmare = sitting in a room with someone year after year who i have nothing in common with.

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 04:05 PM (docNz)

352 Will you reciprocate? Dress like a bosomy German  hausfrau and whisper comforting things in my ear while you hold me. And then change my soiled diaper with practiced efficiency. And, you know, help me with you hand because I am a man.

I operate on the Vegas philosophy, what happens in my bedroom stays in my bedroom.

Maybe this whole subject can be summed up with:

You reap what you sow.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 04:06 PM (Wi/N0)

353 I just knew there was a warm, beating heart somewhere in that deep, frozen wasteland you call a chest cavity.

Yeah? STFU. Woman.

You already told me that I was a sweetheart once today*.  Stop trying to ruin my rep.

*did I say that out loud?

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 04:10 PM (5yNaE)

354

You know what?

Eff all of these complicated, theatrical, mating rituals... - Bring on the multi-axis twatbot with the kungfu grip.

Throw in a maintenance free trans-axle, and I'm good to go!

Posted by: Hand Solo at March 31, 2008 04:11 PM (XjZZY)

355

Mesa, I don't really know what you're talking about.

Relationships are a challenge and holding yourself to the level expected to make it work is part of the challenge. 

What does that have to do with anything? I know this and agree with this. This is the point. It doesn't just happen - you have to make it work. You have to accept less then perfection, a LOT less, and make do with it, make it work, you have to labor at it. This is what I'm saying - it takes effort. It isn't just magical and you it doesn't fall out of the sky and hit you.

You take the best you can get and then you make good with it.

deep trust and caring doesn't just come out of thin air. It's earned. 

Same thing.

great things that can come from truly knowing someone that you respect and cherish

Same thing. Respect and cherish doesn't fall out of the sky. If it's just an instananeous chemical reaction you pick up in the bar, it's not going to stay for 20 years either. It will evaporate.

It's an active verb. Like "to run". To respect. To cherish. It's something you do. Something you have to choose to do, then do. Not something that is just some magical phenominon that you encounter at random one fateful day.

You decide you want 'to run' then you go run. You don't think "Gee, it'd be nice to run" and then one day, all of a sudden, find yourself jogging. In fact, let's use the verb "to work out"/"to excercise", I think that gets the point across. You got to do it, not just want it.

You make a relationship work because you choose to. It's allways been that way. People once upon a time got married without ever meeting each other and there was plenty of happy people, because you make it work.

I think it's less about the specific personality quirks of a given person then you think, then it is the effort put in on both sides. If you can make it work with 1 person you could have made it work with 50 others. Or 500. Whatever.

Whoever you wind up loving and cherishing, there are alot of people out there that you could love and could cherish if you both made up your mind to work at it instead of waiting for it to happen accidentally.

It happens to some people accidentally. Lucky them. It's a quirk. An anomaly. A small minority. Most people aren't ever going to win the lotto, though. Those poor saps are gonna have to get a job and work.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 04:11 PM (HgAV0)

356 Sara -

So you're saying I have a chance?

Posted by: steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 04:12 PM (7FHPf)

357 I am a man.

Albeit, a short, hairy, slightly wobbly, degenerate gambling version of one from whom most women flee on sight and who settles for ewok castoffs.

But yeah, I guess you can still claim to be a man.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 04:17 PM (5yNaE)

358 367 Sara -

So you're saying I have a chance?

Hey, as sick as I am today, anyone bearing a pot of chicken soup would have a chance, especially if they didn't mind that I look worse right now than something the cat dragged in. Priorities, doncha know?

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 04:18 PM (Wi/N0)

359

I operate on the Vegas philosophy, what happens in my bedroom stays in my bedroom.

Thank you.

 

 

Posted by: not_steve_in_hb at March 31, 2008 04:18 PM (SsvUp)

360

You already told me that I was a sweetheart once today*.  Stop trying to ruin my rep.

Thanks, thanks for blabbing mesa. I suppose now you're going to brag about the online sex we had this afternoon? Come on, why don't you just let it all out?

*did I say that out loud?

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 04:19 PM (f3xJa)

361 Hey, as sick as I am today, anyone bearing a pot of chicken soup would have a chance,

There you go...it comes back to food. :-)

(Comment 50)

Posted by: Slublog at March 31, 2008 04:20 PM (lhFDi)

362 what is this "online sex" you speak of?

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 04:21 PM (docNz)

363 372 Hey, as sick as I am today, anyone bearing a pot of chicken soup would have a chance,

There you go...it comes back to food. :-)

(Comment 50)

Let me rephrase, anyone bearing a post of chicken soup or a box of Kleenex (so I can stop using harsh toilet paper and paper napkins) or some really good drugs would have a chance.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 04:23 PM (Wi/N0)

364

Well, hel-looooo!

How you doin?

Posted by: The Makers of Zicam at March 31, 2008 04:24 PM (Kz86N)

365 Some of the "settle" crowd reminds me of the "just being honest crowd". You know those people? They say something really horrible and then follow it up with "I'm just being honest."

There is more than one perspective to be had on anything. As people have pointed out, POV changes over the years.

Whether you make it past the hot sex phase to the responsibility phase to the till-death-do-you-part phase is pretty much up to the two people involved. Alpha, beta, delta, gamma be damned.

If you made it through the whole thing, being a team, helping each other out, promoting the survival of this little group that (some would say) was initiated by a few wayward chemicals, there is no rational basis for using the word "settled".

IMO.

Posted by: moviegique at March 31, 2008 04:25 PM (1y5Vr)

366 pot not post, no cyber soup.

Posted by: Sara at March 31, 2008 04:26 PM (Wi/N0)

367

So what's a Beta to do (which is pretty much most men)?

Go west, my beta friend. Go west ... to Japan.

J-girls love english-speaking white devils. Plus japanese guys treat women pretty badly, so just by not being a complete jerk, you seem like a super romantic sensitive guy.

And if you really strike out, they have sex-bots. For $5K you're guaranteed to get lucky over and over again.

Posted by: Maetenloch at March 31, 2008 04:27 PM (QCjwV)

368 Entropy,

My only disagreement with anything that you just said goes back to what you previously said about "settling."

Maybe we're thinking about it in different ways, but if you go into it with that mindset, you risk selling yourself, and your future partner short.  That can be devastating.

If you meet someone and after a time decide  that you feel you can make a life commitment to them, how have you settled? You obviously had to make it through the same trials and tribulations anyone else did to get to that point.  So why not give yourself and your partner the respect of high enough expectations. Unless, you just want to go for it and figure that the rest will just work itself out.

Otherwise, you are not settling. I see your point about unrealistic expectations.  I just don't think that that is where we were heading in the general (now slightly depressing because of it's true beta male-ishness) discussion.

There's only so much of my near alpha maleness to spare, so I'm bowing out of this one.

But hey, what do I know?  I haven't found it yet. So I may just be speaking out of my ass -- which is not uncommon.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 04:30 PM (5yNaE)

369

hmmm... japan, eh?

i'll make a note of it, lol

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 04:36 PM (docNz)

370 Going west is pathetic, we already covered that ground...

To just jump back in to this whole discussion, even though this strand was originally about betas getting dates when all us mean alphas were being dicks and getting laid because of it while you betas are too sensitive to do that. 

I think I have learned that being worried about settling is a relationship killer.  Maybe even the most beta of you would be able to find a girl who is at least a degree more attractive than you, but you should probably focus on being happy with that girl because I've seen it happen where the girl you were "settling" on ends up with a dude faster than you are going to find anyone who even wants to see you naked, let alone find you funny or interesting.  I've jumped ship a few times successfully, but I don't think a beta should be making that move.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2008 04:36 PM (NXelq)

371 I suppose now you're going to brag about the online sex we had this afternoon?

I'm sorry.  I didn't realize that your telling me about your son's "stinky finger"* constituted online sex.

Sorry to have let you down.  Sheesh.  Married people.

*disclaimer -- don't even think of going there, it's a funny thing that you'd get if you read PJ's blog.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 04:38 PM (5yNaE)

372

i'm not sure if that's an educational video, or someone is stealing my dreams, rofl

where did you find that pjmomma?

 

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 04:47 PM (docNz)

373

where did you find that pjmomma?

Find what?

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 04:52 PM (f3xJa)

374

the "what to do if you catch your son.." clip

maybe i got the wrong blog?

 

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 04:54 PM (docNz)

375

oh no that was my blog.

sorry I was clueless just then. found it on youtube

 

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 04:55 PM (f3xJa)

376

well, it sure is good for a laugh, thanks

 

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 04:56 PM (docNz)

377

You realize I'm sending you a dental bill, right?

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 04:57 PM (f3xJa)

378

this thread is ghey

We should be like the Indians, and have our parents arange our marriages.

Workds better then all this needless drama, or get an Asian wife, they are honest at least and have real boobs

Posted by: Bob Dole at March 31, 2008 05:01 PM (hS/RG)

379

and if you weren't already married i would gladly pay it...

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 05:02 PM (docNz)

380

and if you weren't already married i would gladly pay it...

Posted by: pajama momma at March 31, 2008 05:04 PM (f3xJa)

381 btw, do you have a single sister?

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 05:10 PM (docNz)

382 She's got a hot sister in law, but don't mention her, it makes PJ jealous.

Bastards at HBO put Serenity on HD.

I'll be drinking beer and eating bacon while Mal saves the universe for the next two hours.

Out.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 05:21 PM (5yNaE)

383

If you meet someone and after a time decide  that you feel you can make a life commitment to them, how have you settled?

OK.

Look, so far as I'm concerned, if you reach this point, (and don't wind up divorced in 3 years) you allready have settled. So it hardly matters what I'm saying.

I started off as proposing this as advice for people who couldn't get there.

I think that ALOT of people these days, and my generation is pushing the records on singledom, buy into this whole notion that you don't have to commit to it. You're there because you want to be there. And you're looking for someone who'll allways make you want to be there.

In other words, you never have to commit to being around someone you might not want to be around. To get past those 'trials and tribulations'.

That's why I see reflected in a lot of "don't settle! you deserve better!" stuff pedled these days as romantic advice. Especially for the women. Also the men, but, especially for the women.

but you should probably focus on being happy with that girl

That's my advice. Whoever the hell you can get, the focus needs to be on being happy with them and making it work.

That doesn't mean it WILL work with every single one.

But that's where the focus needs to be if you're trying to make it happen with any of them. You need to put work into it.

Posted by: Entropy at March 31, 2008 05:24 PM (HgAV0)

384

it's been fun.. catch ya later

Posted by: shoey at March 31, 2008 05:35 PM (docNz)

385

Jen, Slu:  you mean people actually do that?  I thought it was just girls in high school, and movies about high school.

While in college, I worked as a cashier at a craft store.  Women would spend hundreds of dollars on that stuff.  They'd bring up a stack of paper an inch thick with a barcode on each sheet, and I'd have to scan each and every one of them.

95% of the customers there were female.  There was only one time when I had two male customers in a row:  The first was Tom Brady, who bought a large shadowbox frame, followed closely by the second guy, who asked him what he was going to do with that frame (for his Super Bowl memorabilia, he said).

I don't know what the point of my story was.  Something about scrapbooking and masculinity, I think.

Hmmm, this thread's dying, isn't it?

Posted by: Mary at March 31, 2008 05:55 PM (JGUCy)

386 Someone cue Cheap Trick/I Want You To Want Me

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 06:02 PM (E3XtI)

387

"pick one, pick the ugly one."

That's only if one is actually less attractive than the other one.  And if a guy picks my friend over me, I may get a little jealous, but he's instantly on my No list.  I don't wanna be the 2nd choice.  Pick me first, or get the hell away from me.

I would pick the one you really wanna talk to. 

Amen to that.  Nothing says "loser" like "I"m gonna hit on the one who's probably starving for attention."

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 31, 2008 06:22 PM (eSqCK)

388 "found it on youtube" Just what the hell were you tubing?

Posted by: PattyAnn at March 31, 2008 06:22 PM (GUhJp)

389

Amen to that.  Nothing says "loser" like "I"m gonna hit on the one who's probably starving for attention."

Hey, it's not like I'm gonna get laid based on my looks and charm or wealth.

Posted by: XBradTC at March 31, 2008 06:33 PM (gWoag)

390 I have to go with Entropy on this one. Settling is not all bad. I say that as a social con.

Next, I'd say NYC is total waste of time for anyone looking for a serious relationship who is not named Derek Jeter or Donald Trump. Here's a map from Strange Maps. Of sex distribution. There are more women back East, though it may be skewed by incarceration rates among African-American men. Nevertheless, statistically you'll find more women than men in places like NYC. It's uncanny.

The problem is, why aren't men, who are not stupid, rushing back East to Miami, Chicago, Baltimore, NYC, Boston, and Detroit to take advantage of the sex disparity?

1. Cost of living is horrible, women can live there since they're looking for Mr. Big, if you don't have Mr. Big's pad you won't play.
2. The quality of women you'll find there is low. Multiply by seven the sexual partners you'd find in a woman the same age and socio-economic background in Dallas-Fort Worth, Phoenix, SLC, etc.
3. Too many Alphas. ALL women will chase them. Even "nice" girls.
4. They type of women there -- higher up the socio-economic food chain, they want a premium over their own status. Mr. Big again.

Allah or Ace could do well in a place like Dallas or Austin or San Antonio. Even with statistically more men as competition. I don't see what the deal is with NYC women. Kristen, Washingtonienne, and Wonkette? Not particularly IMHO a reason to be in NYC. If that's the quality of women there.

It's not just finding a gal. It's keeping her. She has many options, it's a daily decision for her to decide if you get cut from her team and replaced by a better player. This is why Entropy is correct.

You must "settle." Really, read Jane Austen. Now realize ... you're the gal and gals are the men. Character, personality matter.

Posted by: Jim Rockford at March 31, 2008 06:35 PM (4878o)

391

A woman doesn't cheat because a better option just happened to come along. She cheats because you are a jerk who never made any effort to meet her needs, mostly emotional.

Sara, Sara, Sara.  I know it's comforting to think the best of people, but, really, it's not as complicated as that.  Most women cheat for the same reasons men do.  Because having waffles every morning gets old, and sometimes you're in the mood for pancakes  It doesn't mean you don't like waffles anymore.  That's the whole point of not telling her spouse.  She don't want to mess up her life, she just wants to spice it up a bit.

Women who cheat because their needs aren't met are cheating because they want out, and after they do they're gonna tell hubby they did (though it may take awhile to work up the courage).  The ones who are cheating because they're being selfish will take a lover and keep it secret if they can.

That's why, if there's reincarnation, I want to come back as an outlaw biker.  The hedge fund manager may have the cutest wife, but that's okay because I'll be banging her while he's working late to afford that million-dollar lifestyle she wanted.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 31, 2008 06:47 PM (eSqCK)

392

Hey, it's not like I'm gonna get laid based on my looks and charm or wealth.

I'd be surprised if this strategy works either.  In my experience it's obvious and insulting to the women involved.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 31, 2008 06:49 PM (eSqCK)

393

"360 He is so slacking off!

No doubt.

He more than makes up for it with late night calls to me and PattyAnn.

He needs to get back online -- for my sake."

There is a movie in this - a movie!  We're talking academy awards!  He'll get a goldplated coffin if he does this!  Com'on mesablue, you can convince him!  The story writes itself!  Total AoS lifestyle without the hobos, but with the dirty, dirty hookers!

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 06:49 PM (VnT5/)

394 151 As Bill Murray said in "Meatballs":

It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter!"

Posted by: Jersey Jim at March 31, 2008 03:33 PM (k/9B1)


If you look up Whiny Bitch Beta in the dictionary you'll see Chris Makepeace's Meatballs photo.

Posted by: turtle at March 31, 2008 06:50 PM (RvqSy)

395

When these discussions are had, there is the unsupported notion that a man is in one of these static categories. Some, perhaps, but not most.

I don't know whether men are born one or the other. What I do know is that there are external forces that pressure men into "Beta" behavior and penalize "Alpha" behavior. The modern confluence of traditional sexual morality and a culture saturated with feminism comes to mind. At different times in his life, the same man can act in one way or the other and acheive different levels of romantic success, often attributing the success to "luck." For instance, many times in my life, while preoccupied with one girl, two or three others just as hot or hotter were attracted by my indifference and the way they perceived my ennui as me being complicated and mysterious.

A few months ago, I bought a Porsche, instead of socking even more money into my 401K or some stupid mutual fund. You'd be surpised what a bump to your confidence that is, even though no woman in a bar can see it. It isn't the car - it is the kind of guy who would have that car. Treat yourself right first, then add the woman to your scene. Works well.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 31, 2008 06:52 PM (DAQ98)

396 Beth,

It didn't get good until #177.

After that I got caught up in the entire Allah/Entropy beta pissing match bitchfest.

I think I need to turn in my Real Mantm  card now.


Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 06:53 PM (5yNaE)

397 Anybody bring up love and compatibility in this thread yet? No?

OK, I'll shut up about that then.

Maybe even the most beta of you would be able to find a girl who is at least a degree more attractive than you, but you should probably focus on being happy with that girl because I've seen it happen where the girl you were "settling" on ends up with a dude faster than you are going to find anyone who even wants to see you naked

Hah! My sister was divorced over a year ago, she's quite nice-looking but not dazzling (I mean, in the way that a lot of thirty-something men want to be dazzled by a woman), has two kids, and gets all the dates she can make time for.

Her idiot Ex who ruined their marriage because he thought he could do better, is fucking his fist.

Ha- Ha.

Posted by: lauraw at March 31, 2008 06:54 PM (DbybK)

398 There is a movie in this - a movie!

I tried starting a separate blog.  I couldn't keep up.  It would take an entire team of writers to even come close to what you suggest. Epic.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 06:56 PM (5yNaE)

399

#396

I used to buy the powdered colored wax and make candles.  It was cheap and the girls really liked it.  Easy enough for a moron to do, looked like I was sensitive which helped this moron's chances with two of them.

By 'helped his chances' I mean 'yeah buddy!'

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 06:58 PM (VnT5/)

400

That's why, if there's reincarnation, I want to come back as an outlaw biker.  The hedge fund manager may have the cutest wife, but that's okay because I'll be banging her while he's working late to afford that million-dollar lifestyle she wanted.

And he'll be raising my children, too.  Thanks, dude!

Posted by: Ace's outlaw biker liver at March 31, 2008 07:01 PM (eSqCK)

401 "There is a movie in this - a movie! " Mikey, there was a movie in this. WP called me and insisted on singing every song in the movie 'The Idolmaker'. WP cannot sing, and that's being nice to him. Can't someone, anyone, do something to get him back online? Please?

Posted by: PattyAnn at March 31, 2008 07:01 PM (GUhJp)

402

The epic, mesa, will be the final pursuit to the sleazy motel, the two hookers that are with him, their escape to tell 'the real story', and then the gunfight!  Bullets!  Bombs!  Boobs!  Were talking boxoffice bonanza!

 

You just approach him because you, um, can talk to his, uh, rational side.  So to speak.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 07:02 PM (VnT5/)

403 Anybody bring up love and compatibility in this thread yet? No?

I tried.

Not proud, but I was the lone (male) voice in the wilderness of settlers, excuse makers and hopeless giver up'ers.

Everything I've worked for up to this point, I've destroyed in this one thread.

/cheesy pandering


Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 07:02 PM (5yNaE)

404

Love and compatability? What the fuck does that have to do with getting laid?

Things I've learned from this thread:

Allah isn't only beta, he's in need of a major league head shrinker.

Noone can agree on what's the best way to meet people.

The guys who are in good relationships sit and snark from the sidelines.

People take this shit way too seriously and if they'd lighten up they may actually find what they're looking for.

 

In other words, nothing I didn't know before -- been pretty funny though.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at March 31, 2008 07:03 PM (Tk5HT)

405 PattyAnn - you are delegated to keep him from singing.  I've read his "writing" no g-d way I want to hear him sing that!  I don't see him in a philosophical role, more into a 'you point - I punch...hey, nice tits!' kind of role.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at March 31, 2008 07:06 PM (VnT5/)

406 The epic, mesa, will be the final pursuit to the sleazy motel, the two hookers that are with him, their escape to tell 'the real story', and then the gunfight!  Bullets!  Bombs!  Boobs!  Were talking boxoffice bonanza!

Yeah, the Coen Brothers just did that -- sort of.

But, to think of it, they would be the perfect directors for "This One Time, In Oki."

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 07:07 PM (5yNaE)

407 Mesa, you forgot to add "True Story" to the title.

Posted by: PattyAnn at March 31, 2008 07:08 PM (GUhJp)

408 Let's see, if I were single and at a bar, I'd go with Entropy because he made me laugh my ass off with his pickup line (brown shoes and thing around the waist etc).  Funny shit.

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 07:11 PM (E3XtI)

409 Okay, we have the title, director(s) and locale. Now, who would be the best actor to portray WP?

Posted by: PattyAnn at March 31, 2008 07:11 PM (GUhJp)

410 "After that I got caught up in the entire Allah/Entropy beta pissing match bitchfest.

I think I need to turn in my Real Mantm  card now."

Hah!  Any time we get to troll Allah is pure fun.

"My sister was divorced over a year ago, she's quite nice-looking but not dazzling (I mean, in the way that a lot of thirty-something men want to be dazzled by a woman)"

Does she have a hump?  Men (secretly) dig the hump.

Posted by: someone at March 31, 2008 07:21 PM (2z2WN)

411 Now, who would be the best actor to portray WP?

Easy.

That goofy guy who married Courtney Cox.

Or, Clint Eastwood.  We could make it a Western.

"The Good, The Bad and The Fugly"

"Paleblogger"

"Coogan's Muff"

"Dirty and Hairy"

"High Plains Shitbird"  ... inside joke

"Unforgiveable"


Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 07:23 PM (5yNaE)

412 "Any Which Way You Can Break A Bitch"

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 07:26 PM (5yNaE)

413 Does she have a hump?  Men (secretly) dig the hump.

No, alas. But she has fashioned a prosthesis from a milk crate, some chicken wire, and an old Members Only jacket (spraypainted to match her flesh).

Looks pretty natural, even with the pockets and zipper.

Posted by: lauraw at March 31, 2008 07:37 PM (DbybK)

414 OT: But this is good. One alpha male's way of celebrating Earth Hour:

7:59 - Turned on every light in house, including both TVs, which are both in the living room. The 32-inch and 19-inch sets are tuned to CBS and FOX, respectively. The PlayStation 2, despite not being used, is also turned on, but with no game in the system.


8:02 - Answered the door from disgruntled next-door neighbor complaining about “light pollution” and how I’m not “doing [my] part.” Gives a confused look when I scold him for lack of butane conservation after he lights up a cigarette.


8:06 - Order two large pizzas from Papa John’s, Pizza Hut, and Domino’s. Tell each person taking my order that I will tip generously if the pizza arrives before 9, but insist that if the pies arrive right at 9 or later, I will not pay.


8:09 - Wife calls and tells me she’s running late from work. I remember that I have a wife. I leave the cell phone on the table.


8:12 - Throw one sock in washing machine. Set wash cycle for a full load with hot water. Without soap.


8:17 - Pull out electric guitar and amp from closet and set up on front porch. Attempt to spraypaint PUNTER-PALOOZA in the front yard grass, but realize too late that I’ve made my letters too big.

Complete with flame throwing goodness and much more at the link above.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 07:37 PM (5yNaE)

415 Holy CRAP that was funny, mesa.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 07:44 PM (jRtPb)

416 And everyone needs to go read the whole thing.

Posted by: Alice H at March 31, 2008 07:44 PM (jRtPb)

417 lauraw...lol, it sounds like some kind of Igor/buffalo hybrid.

Posted by: dragonlady474 at March 31, 2008 07:48 PM (E3XtI)

418 Alice,

Well, then I have done two things right by you today.  I can go to bed the bar a happy man.

:-)

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 07:57 PM (5yNaE)

419 Her idiot Ex who ruined their marriage because he thought he could do better, is fucking his fist.

Sometimes things just work out as they should, I hope he enjoys the calluses.


By the way, that thing back in #272 didn't work out so good... but I did try...sorta.

Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2008 08:34 PM (ZhCxN)

420 A funny book about beta males, if you don't mind a few lines of Bush bashing, is A Dirty Job, by Christopher Moore. I'd link to it if'n I wasn't such a tech tard. Aside from the BDS, it has Desert Eagles, Demons and pity sex. It also has a helpful Are You A Beta Male? quiz at the end.

Posted by: nightwitch at March 31, 2008 08:38 PM (dfTf5)

421

But she has fashioned a prosthesis from a milk crate, some chicken wire, and an old Members Only jacket (spraypainted to match her flesh).

so she's a girly girl then.

nice.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at March 31, 2008 08:47 PM (Kz86N)

422 I'm with Entropy (not that anyone is still here or anyone cares.)

The problem is more that "settling" has become synonymous with scraping the bottom of the barrel when it actually means something closer to deciding.   If you have a choice of a vanilla cone or a strawberry cone or chocolate ripple you have to *settle* on one of them or... well, not have one.   So you've "settled".    It doesn't mean that you haven't got something you like very very much.   It just means you're not waiting just in case someone suddenly appears with a tub of super exotic mango-melon with cashew nuts and candy sprinkles.   (And miss cashew nuts and candy sprinkles has to decide that *she* likes *you* and what if *you* aren't super exotic macadamia nut - white chocolate with a toffee swirl, hm?)

When I got married my father's advice was that it was utterly necessary to be able to take the other person for granted.

This is like "settling" in that not being taken for *granted* was the big bad thing, you know.   No self-respecting person would ever ever allow themselves to be taken for *granted*.    My dad generally just let me think about that rather than getting all verbose (he is a *man* after all).   And what he was *not* saying was that a person ought to allow themselves to be treated poorly.   What he was saying was exactly what he said... that in marriage you *had* to be confident that the person you married would be there.   Because *not* taking for granted that your spouse would be faithful is another way of saying that there is no trust and no confidence or security in the relationship.   So even when you're angry or something happens, you have to be able to take for *granted* that at the heart of it you're secure in your relationship.

Earlier Entropy said this:
"I think that ALOT of people these days, and my generation is pushing the records on singledom, buy into this whole notion that you don't have to commit to it. You're there because you want to be there. And you're looking for someone who'll allways make you want to be there."

"In other words, you never have to commit to being around someone you might not want to be around. To get past those 'trials and tribulations'."


This is SO true.   I consider it the lie of "true love."    The idea is, if you find the *right* person it will all be effortless.  You will never be tempted.  You will *never* be attracted to someone else.   And if you are, it simply means that the person you thought was your one true love really wasn't.    So no commitment is necessary.

But I think... how can anyone be someone's "true love" if they can't be "true?"  

So "love" has become this thing that happens quite apart from any volition, can't help it, not my fault.   Screw the kids.   You can have the house.

Oh, and "gets laid a lot"...   makes me think of my friend's uncle...  he got laid a lot.   A real Larry the Lounge Lizard.    Had a good relationship with his doctor.   But I happened to see him in a "lounge" and I thought, hey, that's Rachel's uncle Larry.   So I walk up to him (I was probably just 21 at the time) and I say, "Hi, Larry."    The look of utter and pure TERROR on that man's face while he tried to remember when he'd slept with me is *still* funny 20 years later.   I enjoyed that for a long moment.   Then I enjoyed his mewling relief when I said, "I'm Rachel's friend."    But hey, he got laid a lot.

And yeah, mewling relief is just about as manly as it sounds.

Posted by: Synova at March 31, 2008 09:08 PM (KZJr+)

423 No, alas. But she has fashioned a prosthesis from a milk crate, some chicken wire, and an old Members Only jacket (spraypainted to match her flesh).

Without natural pro-tuber-ances -- not the same.

Posted by: mesablue at March 31, 2008 09:15 PM (5yNaE)

424 Her idiot Ex who ruined their marriage because he thought he could do better, is fucking his fist.

Does his fist have a sister?

Posted by: Typical Desperate Ace-of-Spades Beta Male at March 31, 2008 09:22 PM (1y5Vr)

425 Oh, and in the animal kingdom they figure the Beta male strategy for reproduction is slipping in and doing it with various females.   The Alpha male, on the other hand, has a constant mate or mates.

What this means is that "players" are probably not Alpha at all, but Beta... circling the edges and having commitment free, relationship free sex.

But it's more fun to think of ones self as Alpha even when behaving like the non-dominant male.

Posted by: Synova at March 31, 2008 09:28 PM (KZJr+)

426 Man. You people are killin' me. What I wouldn't give to be Beta.

Posted by: Gamma at April 01, 2008 04:16 AM (Uy68a)

427 Alpha?  Beta?  What a bunch of crap.  I got two words for you:

Real Doll

Does everything a real woman does, except talk.  Costs less too.  You want 2, 3, 4 at a time?  Different one each night?  No problem.  No drama.  Custom made, so no need to settle either. Yeah, cleanup can be a pain, but I got two more words for you:

Vibrating Cooter

You guys are wasting your fucking time.

Posted by: Omega Male at April 01, 2008 04:47 AM (f+cPk)

428

This interesting discussion has become confused.  It's not about ultimate life happiness in accord with ethical living.  Nor is it about the fact that betas sometimes live happily ever after by somehow meeting someone (someone that chooses them typically) and getting married.  It's about what kind of guys and what kind of behaviors attract women and give men choices about whom to date/call/screw.  In other words, it's about what kind of mixture of personality and behavior will give someone the opportunity to get laid the most.  There's so much sour grapes in this discussion it's sickening.  It would be like if we were talking about the best quaterback and someone said, well, all that money, pussy, and superbowl ring stuff won't make you really happy.  I married Susie Q, the first girl that was halfway interested in me, and now I have kids, respectability, and sex two times per month.

I even would agree in principle that just racking up numbers won't make you happy.  But the skill set of a guy who can get laid can be put to many uses, plus, it's better to slow down from a position of strength than to make up excuses even you don't believe about how "anybody" can get laid at bars.  Perhaps, but then why are betas such resentment-driven cunts who go on a date every two years or so, if that, and, worst of all, are so scared of women and rejection they never act like a man and just go for it.  The guy that can get lots of good girls can get even more bad girls.  So what. betas can't get either but once in a blue moon and usually because the woman chooses them.  They have little role in their own destiny.  Worse, if a beta has some virtues like kindness and sensitivity, they tend to ruin it when a woman picks them by calling too much, getting clingy, declaring love too early, being selfish in bed b/c they nut too fast from the novelty factor, and wanting so much to be liked and understood they just lose their shit and quit being attractive at all.

Good game is like good rhetoric or good writing.  It requires exquisite sensitivity to the needs and wants of others, while not becoming a complete chameleon, a la, Bill Clinton. And like anything important can be improved, stuided, and practiced.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at April 01, 2008 05:23 AM (kKFU6)

429  MA ! MEATLOAF !

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A LOT at April 01, 2008 05:39 AM (OJhOc)

430

Heh.

Omega Male.

Clever name choice.

Posted by: Entropy at April 01, 2008 05:43 AM (m6c4H)

431 Maybe it's because I live in Miami but the best advice I could give is LEARN TO DANCE, seriously, sounds gay, but it will get you an amazing amount of opportunities and the confidence to approach anyone...correct me if I am wrong but most women will not turn down an opportunity to go out dancing. A real man, like a real renaissance man, dominates on the dance floor as well as the at the office and on the field of play.

Posted by: Just a Dude at April 01, 2008 06:56 AM (0ehP7)

432

 the best advice I could give is LEARN TO DANCE, seriously, sounds gay,

That's because it is gay.

No, seriously though. Really.

Gay.

Posted by: Entropy at April 01, 2008 08:04 AM (m6c4H)

433 Right, totally gay, because, um, why? Oh right, latinas are not attractive or at all feminine and they love dumb white guys with no rhythm. No worries, hard guy, more for me.

Posted by: Just a Dude at April 01, 2008 09:34 AM (0ehP7)

434

436 Her idiot Ex who ruined their marriage because he thought he could do better, is fucking his fist.

Does his fist have a sister?

no need for snarky personal insults, i don't know you and you don't know me

 

Posted by: Shoey at April 01, 2008 09:36 AM (IRh55)

435 It's about what kind of guys and what kind of behaviors attract women and give men choices about whom to date/call/screw.

LOL.  Yeah, it gives you the *choice* between the ladies who like what you've got.   Which might be nice for you since that's the sort of woman you want.   But it doesn't give you a *choice* about dating the woman who sees you as a man-whore who's about as attractive as a used up woman-whore.

You describe yourself as an Alpha.  What self delusion is that?   Larry the Lounge Lizard.  He's really good at getting random women to have sex with him.   There's always someone who will.   Some are even attractive.   But if you can't keep and hold what you've got, Beta-man, you're not an Alpha.

But if we want to talk about what will attract women, and women do lie to others and to themselves, it's a whole lot about sexual power.   Make *her* feel powerful.   She might want to be respected for her mind but her power isn't related to her mind, it's related to sex.

A man-whore is easy.   How much power does it take to get a man-whore?

Posted by: Synova at April 01, 2008 12:01 PM (KZJr+)

436 Synova, do you have a penis?  A woman should be beautiful and fun and charming and cherished, not powerful.  Did I miss a meeting of the uber-dyke club? Look at what I have said above:  I don't get with women as some ego trip or worse as a self-esteem thing.  I like women.  I like their vulnerability, variety, feel, taste, appearance, vibe, etc.  All kinds, in fact.  I have no need for bar skanks on the whole, but they can be fun too.  So what.  I've fucked a lot of women.  I didn't have to lie or use anyone on the way, which is more than most betas who make you feel "powerful" can say.  Plus, I've got some great friends who I've had the pleasure to fuck (and eat and cum on and all the rest). There are guys up there in this thread who are admitted losers with women, who maybe married the second or third girl they ever fucked and are still with them, talking about "game" and how to pick women up.  Look, those guys may be very happy and more power to them, but let's not ask these "armchair players" how it's done, shall we.

Posted by: Guy Who Gets Laid A Lot at April 01, 2008 01:43 PM (kKFU6)

437

 I like women.  I like their vulnerability, variety, feel, taste, appearance, vibe, etc. 

Rawr

Posted by: pajama mommma at April 01, 2008 02:31 PM (f3xJa)

438 Hey, you wanted to go back to what this thread was about, which was what sort of man to women *really* want.

You don't like my statement about sex as power, too bad.   It's an honest one.   You don't think women are interested in their own power?   You're a tool.

Posted by: Synova at April 01, 2008 03:04 PM (KZJr+)

439 Okay, so I know that no one is here anymore and no one cares, but I just found out that someone I knew from grade school (and who I suspect may have been impaired by fetal alcohol syndrome or something similar) not only got laid a lot, but got married several times and had 21 children... so far.   Even while being disabled and in a wheelchair.  

This has all become a public spectacle because his house burned down and the community wanted to help out the poor disabled guy and then suddenly a legion of furious ex-wives came out of the wood work claiming that he had tons of money tucked away and hadn't given them, or their children, any of it.

Still, you have to admit.  He was successful with the ladies.   Rawr.

Posted by: Synova at April 01, 2008 05:07 PM (KZJr+)

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