November 30, 2010

Scientists get cells to switch types/tasks directly, thus avoiding the whole
inefficient/costly/not very fruitful embryonic stem cell nonsense/rabbit hole.

— Purple Avenger

As Joe Biden would say, this is a "big effing deal".

Scientists are reporting early success at transforming one kind of specialized cell into another, a feat of biological alchemy that doctors may someday perform inside a patient’s body to restore health...

...That’s a futuristic idea, but researchers are enthusiastic about the potential for the new direct-conversion approach.

I've always been fairly confident actual science would eventually render all the political/moral/religious theater surrounding the embryonic stem cell kerfluffle obsolete.

When you can work directly with an afflicted individual's cells and DNA to get a result, all the political drama on both sides is reduced to arguments about as abstract/meaningless to Joe SixPack as those positing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at 02:43 AM | Comments (170)
Post contains 162 words, total size 1 kb.

1 All this stem cell controversy has always been a red herring anyway.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2010 02:48 AM (e4sSD)

2 We just had a big news item about a football player blaming God for not making what would have been a game-winning catch. So I'm thinking maybe Joe Six-pack might be interested in how many angels can dance on that pin.

Posted by: Optimizer at November 30, 2010 02:49 AM (2lTU+)

3 Cool!  And FIRST!!

Posted by: Lurkin'no'mo at November 30, 2010 02:49 AM (6zvrq)

4 Ooopsy......

Posted by: Lurkin'no'mo at November 30, 2010 02:50 AM (6zvrq)

5 We just had a big news item about a football player blaming God for not making what would have been a game-winning catch.

Maybe god was just fucking with the cherub's betting pool? 

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2010 02:53 AM (wkiTR)

6 I didn't find the argument abstract or meaningless in any way whatsoever. What I did find ridiculous was Obama's argument that "theuraputic" cloning is somehow acceptable but reproductive cloning is morally reprehensible. His essential argument is that procreation for the purpose medical uses (which results in the destruction of the created life) is superior to procreation for the purpose of reproduction. This is strictly a utliltarian argument and shows Obama's contempt for human life.

Posted by: ken at November 30, 2010 02:58 AM (HBnRn)

7 SCIENCE!

Posted by: Thomas Dolby at November 30, 2010 03:04 AM (zgZzy)

8 I didn't find the argument abstract or meaningless in any way whatsoever.

There's a huge difference between maintenance/repairs and new construction.  A single individual's body already makes "repairs" on a daily basis when injured, it doesn't however reproduce and create a new individual on its own.

That is the difference between reproductive cloning and therapeutic.  The approach in the article apparently dispenses with "cloning" notions entirely, retasking existing cells for alternative duty.

What I said, which you apparently missed, was that this NEW METHOD would render old arguments abstract and meaningless. 

If you think old arguments are still relevant in the face of this NEW METHOD, I'm willing to listen to your argument.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2010 03:13 AM (wkiTR)

9 Btw Christin O'Donnell is kicking ass on Good Morning America

Posted by: ken at November 30, 2010 03:17 AM (HBnRn)

10

#1 is correct with #6 being an example of said "red herring".

"Embryonic Stem Cell*" research hasn't been "about science" since roughly 1980 or so when we began to realize that undifferentiated cells didn't "become" other cell structures or somehow transformed themselves.  It's been about finding a rationale for abortion, plain & simple.

 

* - there's no such thing. Really. Cellular differentiation occurs at any "age" of a given organism. Specializing terminology based on the organism's age is semantics. Nothing  else...

Posted by: Jess at November 30, 2010 03:21 AM (JxrwH)

11 So will this take care of Obama's fat lip?

Posted by: Fritz at November 30, 2010 03:22 AM (GwPRU)

12 So will this take care of Obama's fat lip?

I dunno about that, but the Pron industry is obviously excited about the possibilities.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2010 03:24 AM (wkiTR)

13

Christine O'Donnell sighting. Strangely, she was articulate, intelligent, and didn't appear to be crazy or lacking of character.

Strange.

PS: Obama is a one-termer if Hillary runs; I'm certain of it. He is getting primaried out by Hillary. A lot of GOP voters will switch registrations to make sure he loses in the primaries. Yes, Hillary has some socialist tendencies, but she was also a Goldwater girl at one point and may still have some conservative leanings left in her.

She wants power, but I believe she does actually care about the country and the people in it. It's sad that our current president is SOOO bad that he makes Hillary Clinton look like a true patriot, but there it is.

If the GOP fields a John McCain or Bush-like candidate, at least we can be assured that when Hillary wins, she won't be intent on destroying the country.

Posted by: Joy Behar at November 30, 2010 03:29 AM (X1Y8q)

14 PS: Obama is a one-termer if Hillary runs; I'm certain of it.

In FL, I expect Ogabe would have Kendrick Meek type percentages against Hillary in a primary (i.e. he gets 20%, she gets 80%).

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2010 03:35 AM (wkiTR)

15 I'm sorry, but Hillary is just fucked up in the head. And, Ken, I understand the moral point you were making re cloning types, and I concur.

Posted by: texette at November 30, 2010 03:36 AM (cdaYG)

16 so no more babies will have to be sacrificed in an attempt to find a cure for my male pattern baldness?

Posted by: Ben at November 30, 2010 03:37 AM (wuv1c)

17 The real question has always been "How many angels can float on the head of a beer".

Posted by: Corona at November 30, 2010 03:37 AM (CdbZP)

18 Yes, Hillary has some socialist tendencies, but she was also a Goldwater girl at one point and may still have some conservative leanings left in her.

Hillary did her thesis on Saul Alinsky. She is just as big a commie as Obama, just not as vocal. She will NEVER get the nod anyway. She has blighted her political pull forever.

The Dems will try to go with a more "centrist" candidate next time (at least on the surface).  They will pull some other Southern Democrat and call them a Blue Dog citing one vote to support a tax cut.  The MFM will lap it up like the worthless shitheads they are.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2010 03:41 AM (e4sSD)

19 Yes, Hillary has some socialist tendencies, but she was also a Goldwater girl at one point and may still have some conservative leanings left in her.

Yes, and the devil was an angel too...

Posted by: Paladin at November 30, 2010 03:44 AM (hxLER)

20 It's developments like this that separate the real scientists from the egomaniacal blowhards who just want to play God.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2010 03:46 AM (02uN6)

21 How does this development affect the delivery date for my flying car?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 30, 2010 03:47 AM (B+qrE)

22

There has been just as much discussion re: effectiveness/efficiency in the embryonic v adult stem-cell debate as there has any morality or religious discussion.

We've found it to be true that many (if not most) of the things the embryonic stem cell crowd were saying might eventually be possible if only they were given more funding and were allowed to destroy more embryos are currently possible with adult or cord stem cells- neither of which requires destruction of an embryo.

If we can do this without stem cells at all, I'm all for that, too, but don't believe (just because they say so) the stories embryonic stem cell apologists tell about anyone who doesn't support them being "anti-science" or any such thing.  As with all ideas held and supported by liberals, its a lie.  Or, at best, a distraction from the actual point.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 03:48 AM (AWX5Z)

23

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 30, 2010 08:47 AM (B+qrE)

It doesn't, but I'm wondering if this "graphine" stuff I've heard about will help bring that on...

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 03:49 AM (AWX5Z)

24 If we put all federal money into funding embryonic stem cell research, Christopher Reeve will get up right out of that chair and walk again!

/Wait...

Posted by: Silky Pony at November 30, 2010 03:49 AM (9hSKh)

25 That's about par for the course, Bill Clinton had gone down in the great landslide of 1980, Barack Obama wasn't even in office in 1994 (he hadn't stolen it yet) if they
were smart they'd go with Bayh, or Warner; most likely not.

Posted by: justin cord at November 30, 2010 03:50 AM (V3JdB)

26

I'm here if anyone needs help hiding anything.

Posted by: Michael Mannn at November 30, 2010 03:51 AM (ZyTNp)

27

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2010 08:13 AM (wkiTR)


I've heard the following argument made, that you do need  ESC research to find out what they're capabilities are, so we can figure out the limits of what ASC are capable of.

Posted by: CyclopsJack at November 30, 2010 03:52 AM (iJqzl)

28 #22 We've found it to be true that many (if not most) of the things the embryonic stem cell crowd were saying might eventually be possible if only they were given more funding and were allowed to destroy more embryos are currently possible with adult or cord stem cells- neither of which requires destruction of an embryo.

The same people will argue to the death that anthropogenic "global warming/climate change/climate disruption" is occurring and that we all will die soon because of our "greed". 

You know how liberal "logic" progresses - they only see results where and when it supports their commie agenda, even if they have to fabricate all the data supporting it.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 03:52 AM (9hSKh)

29

If we put all federal money into funding embryonic stem cell research, Christopher Reeve will get up right out of that chair and walk again!

Let's think practical here:  Better looking plugs for Sherriff Joe.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 30, 2010 03:53 AM (B+qrE)

30 How does this development affect the delivery date for my flying car?

You won't take delivery, you'll just get a shot and grow wings.  Cool eh?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2010 03:54 AM (wkiTR)

31 I thought this was another California is so boned story, hows is that multi-billion dollar project looking these days.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 03:56 AM (xkJak)

32 if they were smart they'd go with Bayh, or Warner; most likely not.
Posted by: justin cord at November 30, 2010 08:50 AM

Warner is a twit- perfect for the Dems. Based on his self-promoting emails, I think he is already banking on getting the nomination.

Posted by: Museisluse at November 30, 2010 03:56 AM (DTfXb)

33 17 - I usually don't associate a head on beer and Corona.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 03:58 AM (xkJak)

34 10,235 angels.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at November 30, 2010 04:00 AM (3WlaW)

35 To me at least, it always made more sense to first look at utilizing self-regenerative properties using your self (adult) stem cells rather than going all the extra steps using ESCs.  Adult stem cells can be found in all sorts of places, such as peripheral blood, bone marrow, liver, fat, ect, ect...as far as I know, the only places in the body scientists haven't found ASCs are where they haven't looked yet.

This finding that fully differentiated cells can be converted back to a "blank-slate" state further expands the possibilities of self-renewal. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 04:03 AM (9hSKh)

36 31 I thought this was another California is so boned story, hows is that multi-billion dollar project looking these days.

Check this blog out.

Excerpt from a recent entry:

“The review by the external panel is nothing short of froth and it is disingenuous in its honesty towards Californian citizens, who are funding CIRM. The review board was composed of academics and lacked industry experts. The review board continued to suggest focusing on basic research, which is what led to CIRM's current disastrous state in the first place. If the architects of CIRM initially sold the public on the idea that stem cells will deliver products that reduce the healthcare burden within 10 years, and the average drug development process from entry into IND-enabling phase to completion of phase III takes 10 years, then the focus on CIRM from the start should have been on funding game changing translational projects as well as programs that are entering the IND phase. The board is completely misguided in its recommendations and this is not at all a surprise considering its bias. Moreover the board is asking CIRM to fund outside of California research, and this is ridiculous. CIRM is not NIH, and even NIH is perceived to mismanage public dollars and has been scrutinized for its extremely poor translational output to date. Why would we the public of California wish to adopt a broken model and subsidize non-California research with California dollars?"









Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 04:07 AM (9hSKh)

37 You know how liberal "logic" progresses - they only see results where and when it supports their commie agenda, even if they have to fabricate all the data supporting it. Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 08:52 AM (9hSKh) "Science" in socialist countries has always been hamstrung by the dictates of ideological purity. Nazi Germany and the USSR are two notable examples.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2010 04:09 AM (02uN6)

38 Purple Avenger: these arguments are irrelevant only if you subscribe to the twin notions that "because science can do something, it should" and "the ends justify the means".

Posted by: SDN at November 30, 2010 04:10 AM (0eGy3)

39 How many ways can B+rry not define natural born citizen?

Posted by: torabora at November 30, 2010 04:17 AM (aoXp4)

40 Kratos - I think we could have written that blog post before they even got started.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 04:17 AM (xkJak)

41 unfortunately for the pro abortion crowd...it's not as fun if you can't destroy an embryo....because that is in fact their agenda.....this information has been out their for a couple of years now but they denounced it because it didn't fit their agenda......in fact....one blogger...who we all know..... railed against similar findings years ago....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at November 30, 2010 04:18 AM (eOXTH)

42 When it comes down to it, everything the left promotes is a fraud, the whole Plame matter is obviated by Wikileaks, 'clean energy' is a fraud, so is ESCR, next thing they'll be offering this new thing called alchemy, as an investment.

Posted by: justin cord at November 30, 2010 04:24 AM (V3JdB)

43 All this stem cell controversy has always been a red herring anyway.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2010 07:48 AM (e4sSD)

Exactly; this "argument" has been carried out by a bunch of NPR-type scientific retards who sit around patting themselves on the back about what ethical people they are because they'd rather sit on their dead asses contemplating their dick cheese than do a fucking thing to actually make somebody's life better.  And they always support killing babies above all else because spooging should have no consequences.

Posted by: Captain Hate at November 30, 2010 04:24 AM (ccPlf)

44

How does this development affect the delivery date for my flying car?

I thought the Skittle Shitting Unicorns would negate the need for flying cars?

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 04:26 AM (OWjjx)

45 Posted by: Joy Behar at November 30, 2010 08:29 AM (X1Y8q)

No offense, but I think that you are fucking delusional if you think that Hillary would be any less destructive to the fundamental structures of our country. If anything she will be worse. She has learned since her health-care fiasco in the 90s. She will be able to guide congress much more effectively, and the rebound from Obama will give her tremendous power to "fix" things.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative) at November 30, 2010 04:27 AM (LH6ir)

46 40 Kratos - I think we could have written that blog post before they even got started.

lol, agreed.  Figures they would have stacked the CIRM board with academics who are more interested in getting Cali gravy for their basic projects rather than people who keen to get a useful product to market. 

Sorry to say, but most academics shouldn't be running anything outside their own small little labs.  (Y-not and other profs here get a special exemption from me, ). 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 04:27 AM (9hSKh)

47

Scientists are reporting early success at transforming one kind of specialized cell into another, a feat of biological alchemy that doctors may someday perform inside a patient’s body to restore health...

But doesn't this represent a potentially worse situation for the left. Accepting the fact that liberalism is about regulating your behavior, if the negative health benefits of certain behaviors (smoking, over eating, excessive alcohol consumption) can be negated by regenerating healthier body parts, what is the justification of telling me when I can and can not do something?

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 04:29 AM (OWjjx)

48 justin - let me know when they set up an alchemy fund. Next time the lefty's try this crap, I'm getting in early - I'm now convinced that a close majority of people are fools.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 04:31 AM (aemFw)

49 Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 09:29 AM (OWjjx)

The rationale? It's because we are smarter than you. Now go back to the "green" factory and build your widgets, pay your taxes, have your abortions, and vote all three of your IDs.

Posted by: NJProgressive at November 30, 2010 04:33 AM (LH6ir)

50

Sure, scientist can regenerate actual cells.....but Pixy can't fix my reload problems.

Priorities people.....prioritites.

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 04:34 AM (OWjjx)

51 I've heard the following argument made, that you do need  ESC research to find out what they're capabilities are, so we can figure out the limits of what ASC are capable of.

From the same mindset that brought us the unforgettable "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, ..."

Posted by: NM Hick at November 30, 2010 04:34 AM (IzuWw)

52

Posted by: NJProgressive at November 30, 2010 09:33 AM (LH6ir)

Actually, its the cost. It will cost money to regenerate my lungs from smoking, my liver from drinking and the heart from clotting. And those valuable resources must be preserved so Leonardo De Crappo can make more really shitty movies.

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 04:36 AM (OWjjx)

53 #51  From the same mindset that brought us the unforgettable "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, ..."

With the parallel mindset of "it may be fake, but it still accurate", which the liberals apply prodigiously to a slew of subjects, ranging from Bush's TNG records to "global warming". 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 04:37 AM (9hSKh)

54 If this keeps up and the military work regrowing limbs continues to develop will we all be trolls someday.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 04:38 AM (lnUW/)

55 10,235 angels.

Are you counting those three wallflowers on the edge? They're not so much dancing as trying to avoid falling off.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 30, 2010 04:38 AM (Brjev)

56 Good morning, folks! 

I'm running on very little sleep, so I may have missed it, but does anyone have the link to the original manuscript they're referencing?  I didn't see the citation.  It's a little hard to assess this work.

For the non-scientists (non-biologists), there is nothing morally wrong with using "stem cells" (adult stem cells).  As kratos mentioned, you have a supply of them in your body to produce things like your red blood cells which are truly terminally differentiated.  Red cells can't go back because they no longer have a nucleus or DNA.  They have a set life space in your body (120 days), then they're toast. 

As with all things in biology, it's complicated -- this approach (re-tasking differentiated cells) is not going to be a magic bullet.  There are a lot of changes cells undergo when they differentiate, including massive shape and size changes, that involve complicated machinery that could go haywire in the de-differentiating process.  To me, adult stem cells seem like a much simpler process -- I'd rather go forward than backwards and then forwards. 

But I haven't read the paper.


Also, all my former colleagues who were supposed to be curing the common cold... GET WITH THE PROGRAM!  Day 9 and I'm really sick of this friggin thing! 

Posted by: Y-not at November 30, 2010 04:39 AM (IDL9N)

57 Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 09:36 AM (OWjjx)

Yes, and our masters know how to spend our money better than we do!

DeCaprio was great in The Departed. Everything else? Not so much. And my God! He is stunningly stupid.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative) at November 30, 2010 04:41 AM (LH6ir)

58

Accepting the fact that liberalism is about regulating your behavior, if the negative health benefits of certain behaviors (smoking, over eating, excessive alcohol consumption) can be negated by regenerating healthier body parts, what is the justification of telling me when I can and can not do something?

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 09:29 AM (OWjjx)

There's truth in this.  However, Libtards are all about telling other people how to live.  They still want to have life saving/improving medicines for themselves.  You can rest assured that the little people will not be benefitting from this research.  Connected Liberals, on the other hand, will be living well to a ripe old age - on the tax payer's dime no doubt!

Posted by: Reactionary at November 30, 2010 04:41 AM (xUM1Q)

59

I thought this was another California is so boned story, hows is that multi-billion dollar project looking these days.

Weh R doing Great! And Shortly, we will be doing even better because I have great faith in Jerry Brown. And I will be doing movies again. And when you compare my movies to my term as governor, you clearly see which was better. But if not...be ready for the December 2011 release of Kindergarten Cop II!

Posted by: Ahnold the Governator at November 30, 2010 04:41 AM (OWjjx)

60 But, can science turn Peggy Noonan into a Republican?

Posted by: ingenus at November 30, 2010 04:43 AM (+sBB4)

61

Actually, its the cost. It will cost money to regenerate my lungs from smoking, my liver from drinking and the heart from clotting. And those valuable resources must be preserved so Leonardo De Crappo can make more really shitty movies.

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 09:36 AM (OWjjx)

Just think, if you lived in Great Britain you could sell some of those slightly used parts to the NHS for transplants. Hell, maybe just wait until 2014 and you can do that here in the US.

Posted by: NM Hick at November 30, 2010 04:44 AM (IzuWw)

62

But, can science turn Peggy Noonan into a Republican?

Forget it....I turned her into a newt.

Posted by: Christine the Delaware Witch at November 30, 2010 04:44 AM (OWjjx)

63 The only reason anybody supported Embryonic Stem Cell Research was because Pro-Abortion types were tired of getting their butts kicked over Partial Birth Abortion and figured they would have more success fighting it out on the other end of the gestational spectrum.

Posted by: Haiku Guy at November 30, 2010 04:48 AM (Bhe/R)

64 Besides the insane rationing idea - anything going on in Cancun?

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 04:49 AM (G5WHn)

65

@5 Maybe god was just fucking with the cherub's betting pool?

Hmm. Some sort of Tower of Babel deal, maybe? A new twist, vs. the whole "Let's have them speak different languages!" deal. Makes sense!

Posted by: Optimizer at November 30, 2010 04:54 AM (2lTU+)

66 And here we are, one step closer to the zombie apocalypse. Great.

Posted by: catmman at November 30, 2010 04:54 AM (DTzwU)

67 And here we are, one step closer to the zombie apocalypse.

What's worse? Zombies? or Marxists?  Maybe we shouldn't fear zombies.

Posted by: ingenus at November 30, 2010 04:56 AM (+sBB4)

68 Besides the insane rationing idea - anything going on in Cancun?

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 09:49 AM (G5WHn)

They are still pushing for a "special tax" that takes money from the U.S. taxpayer and gives it to third world dictators.

That will prevent "globull warming".

Of course, that is what this scam has been about all along.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2010 04:57 AM (e4sSD)

69 The essential Saltes of Animals may be so prepared and preserved, that an ingenious Man may have the whole Ark of Noah in his own Studie, and raise the fine Shape of an Animal out of its Ashes at his Pleasure; and by the lyke Method from the essential Saltes of humane Dust, a Philosopher may, without any criminal Necromancy, call up the Shape of any dead Ancestour from the Dust whereinto his Bodie has been incinerated.

Posted by: BORELLUS at November 30, 2010 05:05 AM (GwPRU)

70 #56  I'm running on very little sleep, so I may have missed it, but does anyone have the link to the original manuscript they're referencing?  I didn't see the citation.  It's a little hard to assess this work.

Running "J Gearhart" and "stem cells" through PubMed yields no 2010 publications for this particular John Gearhart of U Penn, although there are several publications describing the work done with mouse and human ESCs by a different J Gearhart, from Johns Hopkins.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 05:05 AM (9hSKh)

71 @67 How 'bout zombie Marxists? Not only to they want to eat your flesh, they want to give all your stuff to the zombie proletariat

Posted by: catmman at November 30, 2010 05:11 AM (DTzwU)

72 zombie Marxists

That's like when you beat Pelosi and she comes back from the dead to terrify us for 2 more years.

Posted by: ingenus at November 30, 2010 05:14 AM (+sBB4)

73 What do you think, kratos?  I don't see how this strategy is better than using stem cells... except, I suppose, if you could induce cells in situ to switch tasks in something like an organ.  Maybe that's the application. 

Maybe I'm just biased by my cytoskeleton background, but the idea of a cell moving so much shit around, changing size and shape, remodeling membranes, etc, seems like a good way to introduce errors.  I'd rather take a "generic" pluripotent cell and induce it to become the cell I want than undo the process and start over. 

Posted by: Y-not at November 30, 2010 05:15 AM (IDL9N)

74
#18 Vic, let's hope that Hillary's self inflicted blight is permanent since "meaning" has become impermanent, certainly transient.

Posted by: maverick muse at November 30, 2010 05:19 AM (H+LJc)

Posted by: Rowan Sommerville at November 30, 2010 05:20 AM (IDL9N)

76 Per Adonai Eloim, Adonai Jehova,
Adonai Sabaoth, Metraton On Agla Mathon,
verbum pythonicum, mysterium salamandrae,
conventus sylvorum, antra gnomorum,
daemonia Coeli Gad, Almousin, Gibor, Jehosua,
Evam, Zariatnatmik, veni, veni, veni.

Posted by: Eliphas Levi at November 30, 2010 05:22 AM (GwPRU)

77

 to Joe SixPack

(looks down at abs)  ummmm, who?

Posted by: navycopjoe at November 30, 2010 05:25 AM (S9k9+)

78
Nanobots, baby, nanobots!

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at November 30, 2010 05:25 AM (1hM1d)

79 all the political drama on both sides is reduced to arguments about as abstract/meaningless...

Embryos are not abstract and meaningless. Exactly what an embryo means to the public may evolve depending on propaganda. But the destruction of embryos is certainly not meaningless, no matter how indifferent the destroyers are.

The stem cell argument between using embryonic v. adult has always been manipulated with the same lack of regard for empirical scientific results in order to propagandize as Al Gore used for his version of the inconvenient truth as "Global Warming".

What's interesting in the article is that the public is being introduced to the idea that embryonic stem cells are not what they've been propagandized to be, certainly no cure all.

"The new direct-conversion approach avoids embryonic stem cells and the whole notion of returning to an early state."

"Using embryonic stem cells is proving to be inefficient and more difficult than expected, scientists say."

But the clincher remains: "In any case, scientists will still work with embryonic stem cells"....




Posted by: maverick muse at November 30, 2010 05:27 AM (H+LJc)

80 63 The only reason anybody supported Embryonic Stem Cell Research was because Pro-Abortion types were tired of getting their butts kicked over Partial Birth Abortion and figured they would have more success fighting it out on the other end of the gestational spectrum.

Posted by: Haiku Guy at November 30, 2010 09:48 AM (Bhe/R)

That's it.  It was a way to spin abortion into a moral positive.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 30, 2010 05:27 AM (BvBKY)

81 2 We just had a big news item about a football player blaming God for not making what would have been a game-winning catch. So I'm thinking maybe Joe Six-pack might be interested in how many angels can dance on that pin.

I thank God for allowing Stevie Johnson to drop that pass to keep my Bills in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes! Just lose, baby!

Posted by: Pyrocles at November 30, 2010 05:28 AM (cv5Iw)

82 Y-not
"Maybe I'm just biased by my cytoskeleton background, but the idea of a cell moving so much shit around, changing size and shape, remodeling membranes, etc, seems like a good way to introduce errors."

Good concern. I've also wondered about the altered cell subsequently mutating, and causing a problematic chain reaction. 

Posted by: maverick muse at November 30, 2010 05:31 AM (H+LJc)

83 all the political drama on both sides is reduced to arguments about as abstract/meaningless to Joe SixPack as those positing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Abstract?  Meaningless?  You won't think it's abstract and meaningless when angels dancing on heads of pins cause our planet to fry like that "this is your planet on global warming" commercials.

The fact is that 2381 winged angels can dance on the head of a #2b pin.  We have modeled the situation and seen that the number is ALWAYS 2381.  Therefore, it's true.

You will be charged a small fee of $25 for this angel-dancing consultation (along with a processing and handling fee of $2,500). 

Thank you.

Posted by: East Anglia/Penn State Angel Pin-Dancing Center at November 30, 2010 05:31 AM (G/MYk)

84

80  It was a way to spin abortion into a moral positive

that is liberal insanity on full show, its like the tsa's sexual assualts spinning into security

there is a moral death rattle in this country

Posted by: navycopjoe at November 30, 2010 05:31 AM (S9k9+)

85 Now that we can stop killing babies to so the mothers of kids with juvenile diabetes can have hope (truly, that was the theme of an anti- Gov-Elect Walker ad here in WI in October--he wanted to destroy her hope by not destroying embyros! oh noes!!).....

can we have lightbulbs back?!?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 30, 2010 05:33 AM (4ucxv)

86 Are we talking werewolves here?

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2010 05:34 AM (L9+2W)

87 And here we are, one step closer to the zombie apocalypse.

Great.

Posted by: catmman at November 30, 2010 09:54 AM (DTzwU)

Amateurs.

Posted by: Inbound Killer Asteroid at November 30, 2010 05:35 AM (B+qrE)

88 I bet a fair percentage of the US population believes GW Bush stopped stem cell research.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2010 05:37 AM (L9+2W)

89 can we have lightbulbs back?!?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 30, 2010 10:33 AM (4ucxv)

Only as personal heating devices.  They are not allowed to be used for light.  Anyone using an incandescent bulb for lighting purposes will be charged with terrorism and "crimes against humanity".


And you will all eat the compact flourescent bulbs when they break or burn out, since they are too dangerous to throw away anywhere.

Posted by: Your EPA Overlords at November 30, 2010 05:37 AM (G/MYk)

90 73 What do you think, kratos?  I don't see how this strategy is better than using stem cells... except, I suppose, if you could induce cells in situ to switch tasks in something like an organ.  Maybe that's the application. 

Maybe I'm just biased by my cytoskeleton background, but the idea of a cell moving so much shit around, changing size and shape, remodeling membranes, etc, seems like a good way to introduce errors.  I'd rather take a "generic" pluripotent cell and induce it to become the cell I want than undo the process and start over.

In total agreement with you, Y-not on your pluripotent cell statement.  We also don't know what potential genetic changes are occurring when you switch a fully differentiated cell type back to its plastic state.  The fewer changes we have to make to a cell to make it do what we want, the better. 

I think you're right that the ultimate application the authors are thinking of with their direct-conversion approach is induce cells in a targeted organ to perform other tasks in situ.  Without the primary literature to critique their research though, it is impossible to gauge how far they are in this endeavor. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 05:37 AM (9hSKh)

91 64 Besides the insane rationing idea - anything going on in Cancun? Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 09:49 AM (G5WHn) Sex. Feasting. Boring seminars. Stealth socialism.

Posted by: joncelli at November 30, 2010 05:37 AM (RD7QR)

92 90 - that sure doesn't some like a 5y to product process like the CIRM promised in it's "prospectus" to voters?

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 05:39 AM (lnUW/)

93 91 - thats what I thought, although I suspect attendance is down because the Mexican hookers are not free as they were in Copenhagen.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 05:40 AM (xkJak)

94 "can we have lightbulbs back?!?"

I'm hoping like hell the new House brings that up ASAP. The Dems got away without having to defend it to the public last time, and I'm dying to see how many will stand by it now that people are awake.
Plus, now everyone has had experience with the CFL's (Commie Fucking Lightbulb's) , and knows that they were way over-hyped in regards to cost, efficiency, quality of light, etc.
 

Posted by: Earl at November 30, 2010 05:42 AM (Z6Mgb)

95 Darned sock!

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 30, 2010 05:44 AM (Z6Mgb)

96 I don't think the moral/ethical arguments were ever about efficacy.  It wasn't "can this be done?"  It was "should this be done?" (for Embryonic Stem Cells: answer = NO)

That question will never go away.

As Y-Not mentioned, the next question is: given that we will have changed the cell from one type to another, what is to stop it from changing again?  That is, does this change make the cell inherently less stable than it otherwise would be?  If so, is it right to do this when it could lead to (for instance) higher cancer rates?  Could the cure be worse than the disease?

Science can never answer "should."  Science can only answer "can."  It is for moralists/ethicists to debate and, ultimately, answer "should."

For embryonic stem cells, the real issue was that all of the answers said "no." Or, at least, they said "not really."  The "can," the "should," and the "is there profit" all pretty well lined up on the "not so much" side of the line.  But pretending to believe that the "can" at least fell into a gray area let pro-abortionists pretend they weren't evil (if it's ever okay to kill an embryo, then its never wrong to do so).

Having typed that line (and allowed myself to think like them for a minute) I'm now going to go vomit.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 05:48 AM (8y9MW)

97 All this Stem Cell crap is fascinating but how exactly is it gonna help my Jets this Monday Night?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 30, 2010 05:52 AM (0GFWk)

98 Plus, now everyone has had experience with the CFL's (Commie Fucking Lightbulb's) , and knows that they were way over-hyped in regards to cost, efficiency, quality of light, etc.


Exactly...how am I supposed to need abortions if I can't get warm, soft, flattering light in my boudoir?!

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 30, 2010 05:54 AM (4ucxv)

99 Heather, Whale oil lamps

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 05:57 AM (Ja6pC)

100 Y-not,

Thinking about this a bit more, there are circumstances were it would be more desirable to convert the cells in situ than growing the cells into tissue or even a whole organ ex-vivo and implanting them back into the patent.  There are inborn limitations to culturing cells, as I found out that the expression of the particular enzyme I work with, which is membrane bound, is downregulated when you culture tissues ex-vivo.  And there has been work done with heart muscle regeneration where muscle function was increased by merely injecting ASCs isolated from fat into the heart.

But as for which method would be superior for self-renewal, direct conversion or using pluripotent ASCs as I have previously described, will have to be determined experimentally.

Your thoughts?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 06:00 AM (9hSKh)

101 How will these cells respond to chemical signaling in an organism? How will these cells position themselves in target organs?

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2010 06:02 AM (L9+2W)

102 Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 11:00 AM (9hSKh)

That is far too much tech-speak for me this early in the morning.  Can y'all dumb it down so the rest of us can follow the conversation?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:03 AM (8y9MW)

103 But what good is it if we can't use it to kill babies?

Posted by: Dr Mabuse at November 30, 2010 06:04 AM (jgkJo)

104

But, can science turn Peggy Noonan into a Republican?

Forget it....I turned her into a newt.



Don't worry. I got better.


Posted by: Peggy Noonan at November 30, 2010 06:07 AM (DZVrI)

105 Heather, they used that same crap against Mark Green in the last governor's election. In fact, I believe it was the same woman.

Posted by: bigred at November 30, 2010 06:08 AM (cX9pO)

106 101 How will these cells respond to chemical signaling in an organism?

How will these cells position themselves in target organs?

These three words;  location, location, location!  Cells in their plastic state, if given the proper cues from their environment from other cell contacts along with other factors, can adjust position and roles accordingly as needed.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 06:08 AM (9hSKh)

107 9 Btw Christin O'Donnell is kicking ass on Good Morning America

Posted by: ken at November 30, 2010 08:17 AM (HBnRn)


Ace hardest hit?

Posted by: Unclefacts, Confuse A Cat, Ltd. at November 30, 2010 06:09 AM (eCAn3)

108

If the GOP fields a John McCain or Bush-like candidate, at least we can be assured that when Hillary wins, she won't be intent on destroying the country.

Posted by: Joy Behar at November 30, 2010 08:29 AM (X1Y8q)


Maybe you missed that whole health care behind closed doors thing back in the nineties? Anyone who thinks HILLARY! isn't a died in wool marxist isn't paying attention, she may hide it better than Pres'ent Toonces, but the same Stalinist tendencies are there.

Posted by: Unclefacts, Confuse A Cat, Ltd. at November 30, 2010 06:12 AM (eCAn3)

109 But what good is it if we can't use it to kill babies?

We will use it to change babies into either worker babies or Ruler babies. So in the end we will not need to control baby production through abortion but control the production unit itself through genetic manipulation.

Yes I even felt weird writing that since I think that's what they really want.

Posted by: Utopian at November 30, 2010 06:12 AM (tf9Ne)

110 I've always been fairly confident actual science would eventually render all the political/moral/religious theater surrounding the embryonic stem cell kerfluffle obsolete.

--It's more than just theater; it has serious ethical implications.  Unfortunately, it has largely been amoral (whatever is scientifically possible, is moral) interests looking to feed at the taxpayers' tough who have made a spectacle out of it.  Even our clown president is a bit player in this drama.

Posted by: logprof at November 30, 2010 06:13 AM (BP6Z1)

111 BTW (again).  Man ejaculates getting frisked by TSA.  Film at 11...

http://www.deadseriousnews.com/?p=573

Posted by: CUS at November 30, 2010 06:14 AM (wOGfT)

112 Everyone knows Angels don't dance..  that was just a "in" joke among philosophers..

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at November 30, 2010 06:14 AM (f9c2L)

113 You saying that Joe Sixpack is smarter than Joe Biden?  Is that what you're saying?  Well you sure as hell have it right.

Posted by: Comanche Voter at November 30, 2010 06:16 AM (3ESDJ)

114

There's truth in this.  However, Libtards are all about telling other people how to live.  They still want to have life saving/improving medicines for themselves.  You can rest assured that the little people will not be benefitting from this research.  Connected Liberals, on the other hand, will be living well to a ripe old age - on the tax payer's dime no doubt!

Posted by: Reactionary
----------------

"Libtards are all about telling other people how to live."  Yeah.. but it seems to me there's quite a bit of this on the other end of the political spectrum as well!

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at November 30, 2010 06:17 AM (f9c2L)

115 Jerry, trick question, huh? Everybody knows angels are Baptists.

Posted by: bigred at November 30, 2010 06:17 AM (cX9pO)

116 Bigred - Oh really?  I thought only the fallen angels were Baptists!

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at November 30, 2010 06:20 AM (f9c2L)

117 111 BTW (again).  Man ejaculates getting frisked by TSA.  Film at 11...


Can't be real. Look at the guy's name.

Posted by: Hey.Wheres.Barry at November 30, 2010 06:22 AM (gQLr2)

118 Jerry, according to my wife's very Catholic grandmother, they were all Protestant. Lucifer, Luther, "Lu", coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: bigred at November 30, 2010 06:25 AM (cX9pO)

119 Bigred / Jerry: No, you're both wrong.  Angels are all Greek Orthodox.  It really, really annoys the Catholics, but, hey, whatcha gonna do? Right?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:26 AM (8y9MW)

120 117 111 BTW (again).  Man ejaculates getting frisked by TSA.  Film at 11...


Can't be real. Look at the guy's name.

Posted by: Hey.Wheres.Barry at November 30, 2010 11:22 AM (gQLr2)


  "Percy Cummings, an interior designer from San Francisco, is being held "

C'mon, this is as fake as Barry's birth certificate

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at November 30, 2010 06:26 AM (LdYLm)

121 Dead Serious News is a satirical website that is updated on an irregular basis.  With the exception of the names of public figures, all names are fictional.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 30, 2010 06:27 AM (4ucxv)

122 Androgynous, robes, dancing - yep Greek Orthodox

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 06:28 AM (c3oPV)

123 Btw Christin O'Donnell is kicking ass on Good Morning America

O'Donnell 2012!!!!

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 30, 2010 06:33 AM (ZyTNp)

124 In Catholic grade school I used to love asking the nuns questions like "Are Angels men or women?" just to look at the blank stares.. lol..

If you've never read "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neal Gaiman, do so.. lots of angels (fallen and not) humor there..

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at November 30, 2010 06:36 AM (f9c2L)

125 PA if you were saying that the argument at the time was important then good. I didn't get that from what you wrote. I don’t get your point on theuraputic vs reproductive cloning.

Posted by: ken at November 30, 2010 06:38 AM (HBnRn)

126 Jerry, you're lucky to have working knuckles, man! :-)

Posted by: bigred at November 30, 2010 06:38 AM (cX9pO)

127 Meanwhile they voted for earmarks yet again,

Posted by: justin cord at November 30, 2010 06:39 AM (V3JdB)

128 And, for the one who asked about the wall-flowers at the dance: you got it wrong: there's just not a whole lot of room to bottle dance on the head of a pin, so sometimes some of the angels get kicked off.  If you watch real closely you can see this kind of cyclical motion as the angels on the outside slowly migrate in and the ones in the center keep getting kicked off and having to land on the outside edges.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:40 AM (8y9MW)

129 @128 - Of course they did.

Does anyone have a link to the vote count, I need to know where John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison stood on that one.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:43 AM (8y9MW)

130 Stoppit.. Jus' Stoppit.

This puts my whole $6 Billion project at risk.

Posted by: Bob Klein at November 30, 2010 06:43 AM (+6fgE)

131 Speaking of more new intrusive government:

Senate passes food safety bill in wake of outbreaks

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 06:45 AM (9hSKh)

132 "Libtards are all about telling other people how to live."  Yeah.. but it seems to me there's quite a bit of this on the other end of the political spectrum as well!

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at November 30, 2010 11:17 AM (f9c2L)

I'll be the first to admit that the Right has an infection of damn do-gooders as well, but it is FAR less systemic.  Generally, the prudes/scolds on the Right have little to no influence over much of anything in real life.  And even if they did, all those of us on the Right who care about social issues and related laws are on the defensive - trying to stand up for what has been normative for thousands of years in the face of an increasingly hedonistic society.  We learned not to expect progress - we're just trying to hold a line.   The lunatics can't get what they want no matter how much they try.

After a while you get sick of the "progressives" telling you that everything you believe is wrong, and watching them indoctrinate the next generation to toss aside all traditional values.  Sometimes this resentment spawns over-reactions, and that is unfortunate.  But it's not like anybody is going to outlaw masturbation, or make adulterers wear a scarlet letter, or whatever odd notions the leftists come up with when trying to characterize the beliefs of anyone to the right of them.  Never going to happen.  Unless maybe the Muslims take power...

Posted by: Reactionary at November 30, 2010 06:47 AM (xUM1Q)

133 Kratos, you have a link to the actual text of the bill?  I heard that it would even affect home gardens and such, but don't know how/to what extent.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:48 AM (8y9MW)

134 Does anyone have a link to the vote count, I need to know where John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison stood on that one.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 11:43 AM (8y9MW)

List of the R traitors over at the headlines thread. TX folks were OK.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2010 06:49 AM (e4sSD)

135 AllenG - when they line dance, we get weak interaction; sock hop, gravitation; and when they swing, we get strong interaction.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 06:49 AM (judfL)

136 In Catholic grade school I used to love asking the nuns questions like "Are Angels men or women?" just to look at the blank stares.. lol..

If you've never read "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neal Gaiman, do so.. lots of angels (fallen and not) humor there..

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry

 

In Catholic grade school, the sisters of St. Joseph replied that they were whatever God wished them to be, and then explained the definition of the words omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. And we were expected to know and use these words in first and second grade.

Thinking logically, there was no way that these women could handle classes of 40 or more without being more intelligent than the average brat.

Posted by: Blue Hen at November 30, 2010 06:49 AM (R2fpr)

137 @136 - If angels ever line dance (outside of traditional Russian dances and God's Own Two-Step), I'm becoming an atheist.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:51 AM (8y9MW)

138

Thinking logically, there was no way that these women could handle classes of 40 or more without being more intelligent than the average brat.

Well, rulers help as well.

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 06:57 AM (OWjjx)

139 OT (The talk of Hilary primarying President BOHICA reminded me) on Mark Davis this morning, he was speaking to Liz Cheney and asked (as he does with all semi-national or national political figures) if she was thinking of "any personal political aspirations."

She didn't say "no."  So now I'm left to wonder: do we know anything about her fiscal/social conservatism?  I know she's great on the foreign affairs/National Security stuff, but does anyone have resources so I can see where she stands on the other two "legs" of Reagan's Conservative stool?

If she's solid on those, color me excited over Liz Cheney.  If not, I'm a solid "meh."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 06:58 AM (8y9MW)

140 134 Kratos, you have a link to the actual text of the bill?  I heard that it would even affect home gardens and such, but don't know how/to what extent.

I think this is it. 
Somebody check me on this?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 06:58 AM (9hSKh)

141 Liz Cheney/Chris Christie ticket, AllenG? Not as good as my dream ticket (Petraeus/Christie) but still pretty good?

Posted by: BlackOrchid at November 30, 2010 06:59 AM (SB0V2)

142

Thinking logically, there was no way that these women could handle classes of 40 or more without being more intelligent than the average brat.

Well, rulers help as well.

Posted by: Mallamutt

 

Just knowing that it was there, and that it could, and would be, used was usually enough.

Posted by: Blue Hen at November 30, 2010 07:01 AM (R2fpr)

143 OT, oh well: Gov't workers pissed about not getting raises for 2 years: "Federal law enforcement officers have been sacrificing for our country since the attacks on 9/11, and now we're being asked to bear the brunt of a failing economy," said Fatty MCFatass, gov't chair jockey. I was wondering how mighty O' would push his approval down below 39% and this seems to be working. I'd not think it possible to push it down below 30% but President Dude is amazing in all the wrong ways. And anytime you hear how someone is sacrificing for you just assume they regard you as a stupid peasant.

Posted by: cali grump at November 30, 2010 07:01 AM (hL0k8)

144 Blue Hen, I had a nun who would just let the shadow of the yardstick reach onto your desk from the other side of the room. Kids would react as if they had been cracked with it.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 07:03 AM (xkJak)

145 ... but EVERYBODY KNOWS that embryonic stem cell are going to cure every mality known to man.

It's just like AGW .. EVERYBODY KNOWS that getting rid of CO2 will save the planet

.. it's all BS

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 30, 2010 07:04 AM (tE8FB)

146 I'll tell you what Bob Dole's gonna do now. Bob Dole's gonna grow a goddamn new arm. I saw it in one of those Spiderman funny books.

Posted by: Bob Dole at November 30, 2010 07:05 AM (0IR+C)

147 @142 - Gag.  It Cuthulu Law at it's best (worst?). 

I really think there needs to be a new congressional rule that any bill which amends or re-writes another bill must strike out the original bill in toto, and re-write the entire text instead of this "strike out x through y and replace with z" crap.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 07:05 AM (8y9MW)

148 Blue Hen, I had a nun who would just let the shadow of the yardstick reach onto your desk from the other side of the room. Kids would react as if they had been cracked with it.

Posted by: Jean

That's talent right there.

I did a stint as a substitute teacher in a public school system, adn I found that striking desks did wonders. By the end of the first class, all I had to do reach up to its' promient location, and the gasps had the desired effect. They were focused and I could teach.

Posted by: Blue Hen at November 30, 2010 07:06 AM (R2fpr)

149 Senate FDA bill: http://tinyurl.com/39pjy43

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2010 07:06 AM (G5WHn)

150 Gotta go folks.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2010 07:09 AM (e4sSD)

151 They told me that if I voted for John MCCain that embryonic stem cell research would stop  ...  but they didn't tell me why

Posted by: Bitchen Meg at November 30, 2010 07:09 AM (tE8FB)

152 Jerry, you're lucky to have working knuckles, man! :-) Posted by: bigred
---
Yeah.. and to everyone else who mentioned rulers..  I had a nun in eighth grade who carried an 18 inch ruler.. very thick, too.. and she would walk around the room slapping her own hand with it, like some Nazi SS officer.. "Vee vill haff order in ziss class!"

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at November 30, 2010 07:09 AM (f9c2L)

153 I'm not as huge a fan, on the national level, of Christie as most on the blog are.  He'd probably be okay as VP, but I'd rather him (if he had to go to DC) go in as a Senator and sit on Appropriations or something similar.

Not that he'd ever accept such a situation, but I could probably handle Cheney/Romney- He'd be a good VP (I think) and wouldn't have to do quite so many contortions to avoid talking about RomneyCare...

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 07:09 AM (8y9MW)

154 I'd be working on retasking a woman's cells into growing bigger titties. Beneficial, healthy and empowering. You could even retask some cells into larger back muscles to beef up the chassis. No more back-alley boob jobs done with coathangers and Dremel tools. We could increase society's cup size overnight. At Empire of Jeff, We Don't Make the Titties. We Make Them Bigger.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 30, 2010 07:10 AM (OW0nw)

155 Kratos,

Would doing this kind of research for MS on my DNA be  worth it?  My sis in a study with UCSF with her DNA concerning MS.

Posted by: mpfs at November 30, 2010 07:13 AM (iYbLN)

156

 I'll tell you what Bob Dole's gonna do now. Bob Dole's gonna grow a goddamn new arm. I saw it in one of those Spiderman funny books.

The first rule of Bob Dole sockpuppetting is that Bob Dole never uses the term "I" or "me". Thus, that last sentence should read "Bob Dole saw it in one of those Spiderman funny books".

 

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 30, 2010 07:15 AM (OWjjx)

157 This is a question worth asking and the answer is the most poignant and effective one I have heard yet.  It's so simple a democrat can understand it.

Just click on the question below and be astounded:

Is Mitt Romney responsible for Obamacare and the current state of the Massachusetts Health Care system?

Posted by: Dan at November 30, 2010 07:16 AM (9L1z6)

158

At Empire of Jeff, We Don't Make the Titties. We Make Them Bigger.

I'll be the first guy in line for your IPO, should you decide to go public.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at November 30, 2010 07:17 AM (b6qrg)

159 I did a stint as a substitute teacher in a public school system, adn I found that striking desks did wonders. By the end of the first class, all I had to do reach up to its' promient location, and the gasps had the desired effect. They were focused and I could teach. Posted by: Blue Hen at November 30, 2010 12:06 PM (R2fpr) Heh- In college I had a DiffEQ at 8AM (real fun after a night of drinking that was...). The professor was a kindly old gentleman who must have worn size 16 shoes. When he wanted to emphasize a point, or just wake everybody up, he would stamp his feet. Sounded like artillery fire .

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2010 07:18 AM (02uN6)

160 bob dole fail

Posted by: phoenixgirl at November 30, 2010 07:19 AM (Cm66w)

161 Heh- In college I had a DiffEQ at 8AM (real fun after a night of drinking that was...). The professor was a kindly old gentleman who must have worn size 16 shoes. When he wanted to emphasize a point, or just wake everybody up, he would stamp his feet. Sounded like artillery fire .

Posted by: Nighthawk

Nice. I had an economics class at 08:00. The professor was apologetic about the time and the subject matter.

Posted by: Blue Hen at November 30, 2010 07:24 AM (R2fpr)

162 Posted by: Dan at November 30, 2010 12:16 PM (9L1z6)

I don't buy it.  I pre-supposes that Mitt Romney couldn't foresee further government over-reach.  Either that's true- in which case I don't want him anywhere near Republican politics, or it's False- in which case he's still just trying to deflect blame.

To make their example more correct, Doctor X knew he was retiring in a year or two and chose a method of treatment which would be prone to errors if not handled exactly right.  He then left her to the mercies of Doctor Z who he knew would want to "tweak" the patient's course of treatement.  When what he could have done is recommend a much less effort-intensive course of treatment which, while possibly (but only possibly) not quite as effective, would not require anything beyond simple renewing of annual (or semi-annual) prescriptions and the occasional check-up.

Government-Run health care has never worked anywhere it has been tried- including in MA.  I don't want him to "take the blame," necessarily, but I do want him to admit that it's not working as planned and that the lesson from RomneyCare is: don't.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 07:26 AM (8y9MW)

163 Congressional comment #1205-8y9MW-227ad27c:

I really think there needs to be a new congressional rule that any bill which amends or re-writes another bill must strike out the original bill in toto, and re-write the entire text instead of this "strike out x through y and replace with z" crap.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at November 30, 2010 12:05 PM (8y9MW)

Congressional comment #1225-G/MYk-31a2f55:

Congressional comment #1205-8y9MW-227ad27c is amended by striking out all text to the 39th character, replacing it with "".  Appended to this is substr(Congressional comment #1205-8y9MW-227ad27c, 39, 14) and the string obtained by replacing Congressional comment #1205-8y9MW-227ad27c(53, Congressional comment #1205-8y9MW-227ad27c.length-49) with the string catenation of member names of the set formed by the intersection of the Natural numbers and multiples of transcendentals, and ending Congressional comment #1225-G/MYk-31a2f55 with the what's left in Congressional comment #1205-8y9MW-227ad27c (count it yourselves - we're too tired).

So entered into the Congressional blog this 30th day of November, 2010.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at November 30, 2010 07:27 AM (G/MYk)

164 #157  Would doing this kind of research for MS on my DNA be  worth it?  My sis in a study with UCSF with her DNA concerning MS.

Good question.  I don't know much about the cell types responsible for providing the myelin sheath, such as the Swann cells and the oligodendrocytes, or if this can be used somehow to stimulate myelin production by glial cells.

Hmm...I'd have to look into this further.  Sorry I can't provide a better answer.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 30, 2010 07:32 AM (9hSKh)

165 @100
Your thoughts?

Sorry, kratos, I was off-thread... buying cold medicine! 

Sidebar winge:  I have to say, if the friggin' virologists can't cure the common cold, it is mind-boggling to me that cell biologists are going to be able to engineer our cells to a healthy state.  grumble, grumble.  (Yeah, most virologists I've known - and there have been plenty - are full of hot air.  They get way too much attention for what they accomplish, in large part because viruses are cool looking structures.  grumble, grumble)

Anyway, I confess I'm pretty naive about this stuff, being more of a molecule and cell gal.  Assuming they're trying to trigger one cell type in an organ to become another, I suppose that would be better than injecting stem cells and expecting them to migrate to the right place, then differentiate.  Although even then, don't the cells still have to move around a bit to make sure they're in the right place to make a functioning organ? 

Posted by: Rowan Sommerville at November 30, 2010 07:34 AM (IDL9N)

166 /sock off

(Rowan Sommerville was the winner of the worst sex scene in a novel this year.)

Posted by: Y-not at November 30, 2010 07:38 AM (IDL9N)

167 Y-Not
I had just read that they are pretty close to a cure for the cold using a protein called Trim21.

They are expecting trials within 2-4 years.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at November 30, 2010 07:44 AM (nB/2f)

168 @169

Interesting - thx.

This article (which links to the original PNAS paper) makes it sound a bit further off than that, but the group is in England so perhaps drug development is speedier there (without the FDA involved). 


BTW, PNAS is a very good journal, but it's not the top tier.  I would've expected a bombshell result to appear in Cell, Nature, or Science. 

Posted by: Y-not at November 30, 2010 07:54 AM (IDL9N)

169 I teach an introductory finance class at 9 (not 8, but still too early for the little darlings).   I get up at 4:30 to work out, so I'm well into my day (and two or three cups of coffee to boot).  From time to time, I'll take a textbook and slam it on the desk just to wake them up.   Of course, if a student is not paying attention (goofing off , talking, or reading something else), I simply ask them the next 2 or 3 questions.   No need to get in their faces - simply make sure that if they don;t pay attention, they get in dutch.

It's all about keeping them on their toes - if they're not paying attention, you can;t teach them anything. 

As for stem cells, my son had an ASC treatment at Children's of Philly (one of the top treatment centers for Neuroblastoma) when he was undergoing chemo - they filter out the immature white blood cells before blasting the patient with major high-dose chemo.  The chemo ends up torching the bone marrow (traditional chemo works by affecting pretty much all fast growing cells).   So, at that level of chemo, the patient is left  with no red blood cells (these can be transfused), limited clotting factor (also transfusable), and no white blood cells (much more serious, since they can't fight even simple infections). 

So, after the chemo, they injected my son with about a tablespoon of these stem cells.  They migrate to the bone marrow sites, and in about 4 weeks, they become new bone marrow.   This allows the oncologists to give much higher levels of  chemo that would be otherwise fatal without killing the patient with the cure.

Some researcher actually figured this stuff out.  That's absolutely amazing, and whatever these guys make, it's not enough. 

Posted by: RightWingProf at November 30, 2010 09:03 AM (UOcNk)

170 Purple Avenger: these arguments are irrelevant only if you subscribe to the twin notions that "because science can do something, it should" and "the ends justify the means".

Well, I have no problem with science using an individual's own DNA and existing natural regenerative processes to effect better cures for them.

Explain to me, in detail, why science should NOT do this kind of thing the article described.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 01, 2010 04:02 AM (Vk5gR)

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