March 31, 2012

Science - we've got a problem. [ArthurK]
— Open Blogger

Recent typical MSM story on how cavemen conservatives distrust science. (Fire burn!)

Fewer than 35 percent of conservatives say they have a "great deal" of trust in the scientific community now

...

The unspoken assumption in the article is that there is something wrong with those who don't have a great deal of trust in the scientific community... Uhhh, might I point out this story from this week?

During a decade as head of global cancer research at Amgen, C. Glenn Begley identified 53 "landmark" publications - papers in top journals, from reputable labs - for his team to reproduce. Begley sought to double-check the findings before trying to build on them for drug development.

Result: 47 of the 53 could not be replicated.

I've wondered why we keep hearing of new medical studies that reverse the findings of previous studies. Maybe it's because of the massive level of hackwork that passes itself off for science nowadays! Note that Begley has to earn his money. If his experiments can't be reproduced Amgen can't turn them into life-saving medicine. Which is how Amgen Earns The Big Bucks. The hacks Begley looked into may have only wanted to get their names in a big name journal.

A few more quotes from the article. This stuff truly shocks me.

As we tried to reproduce these papers we became convinced you can't take anything at face value.


...


The failure to win "the war on cancer" has been blamed on many factors, ... But recently a new culprit has emerged: too many basic scientific discoveries... are wrong.


...


Begley's experience echoes a report from scientists at Bayer AG last year. Neither group of researchers alleges fraud, nor would they identify the research they had tried to replicate.

Of 47 cancer projects at Bayer during 2011, less than one-quarter could reproduce previously reported findings, despite the efforts of three or four scientists working full time for up to a year.


...


But they and others fear the phenomenon is the product of a skewed system of incentives that has academics cutting corners to further their careers.


"It drives people in industry crazy. Why are we seeing a collapse of the pharma and biotech industries? One possibility is that academia is not providing accurate findings,"

I wonder if the all the govt. money has bad influence. Private money expects high standards. Govt money just wants to be spent.

Dr Ray Stantz (a Ghostbuster): Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything! You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've *worked* in the private sector. They expect *results*.

Some authors required the Amgen scientists sign a confidentiality agreement barring them from disclosing data at odds with the original findings. "The world will never know" which 47 studies - many of them highly cited - are apparently wrong, Begley said.


...


Begley met ... with the lead scientist of one of the problematic studies.


"We went through the paper line by line, figure by figure," said Begley. "I explained that we re-did their experiment 50 times and never got their result. He said they'd done it six times and got this result once, but put it in the paper because it made the best story. It's very disillusioning."

Also, I tweet at @ComradeArthur

Posted by: Open Blogger at 02:12 PM | Comments (305)
Post contains 573 words, total size 4 kb.

1 Troll free?

Posted by: toby928© at March 31, 2012 02:14 PM (GTbGH)

2 Let's hope so.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 02:15 PM (d0Tfm)

3

It's a natural skepticism that we who can think for ourselves had always had.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 02:17 PM (d0Tfm)

4 Even Sheriff "Sloe" Joe Biden knows that the real world is where you have to do things.


In grantatopia (any study contaminated with an iota of government funds), you get to normalize things with respect to the desired result.  "Publish or perish!" aren't just words to live by, they are words that might kill people because of faulty research leading to flawed experimental trials.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 31, 2012 02:18 PM (i3+c5)

5 I'm petitioning Ace for TB status, specializing in raykon.  His relentless stupidity is like a tar baby to me.

He tasks me, and I shall have him.

Posted by: toby928© at March 31, 2012 02:19 PM (GTbGH)

6 It's not that conservatives don't trust science.  It's the scientific "community" we don't trust.  Kind of like how I don't trust medical "ethicists" to be ethical.  Or how I don't trust social "justice" to be just.  Like that.

Posted by: mama winger at March 31, 2012 02:19 PM (P6QsQ)

7 Rolling a dice can produce better results. When can we stop calling it science?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2012 02:19 PM (jucos)

8

had = have, the first one...

 

Damned analogue spll chkr.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 02:20 PM (d0Tfm)

9 Bacon and butter are good . Anyone who says otherwise believe in AGW.

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 02:21 PM (npr0X)

10 No 2 monkeys are like, that's the problem.

Posted by: Scientists at March 31, 2012 02:22 PM (Sh42X)

11 No final four thread, had to repeat this from the last thread.

So going into the Final Four, the only way I lose my office pool is by
Louisville winning the championship and Ohio State loses today.


Here is how it plays out...Kentucky is the number one seed and wears all white uniforms with blue trim. 4 years ago the best team in the country also wore white uniforms with blue trim. That team was Memphis and was also coached by John Calipari. Kansas beat North Carolina and played Memphis for the national title and beat them in overtime. This year, Kansas beat North Carolina and if they beat Ohio State, they will play a Calipari coached team who wears white uniforms with blue trim in another leap year. In fact, 1952, 1988, 2008, and 2012 are leap years. Three of those 4 years Kansas won it all. Book it, KU wins it all. Rock Chalk motherfuckers.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 02:22 PM (r3ITV)

12 The only way I win the NCAA brackets this year is if the Championship game is played on Wednesday before 7am. Otherwise, I've lost.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2012 02:23 PM (jucos)

13 Thin Sam , pretty fucking slim .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 02:24 PM (npr0X)

14 Blinded by Science.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at March 31, 2012 02:24 PM (Qxdfp)

15 As Insty pointed out, the survey wording was actually if you trust "leaders of scientific institutions" if you dig far enough, but good luck on the MFM reporting that.

Posted by: Ian S. at March 31, 2012 02:25 PM (wllJH)

16 Reading papers is definitely an exercise in processing extreme amounts of suggest. These findings are quite troubling, but I suggest that they have more to do with the medical research industry than pure biology at large. Just speculation, though.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 31, 2012 02:25 PM (E7NVC)

17 science is hard; like math.  Math is hard, too--like science

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in pallandromes at March 31, 2012 02:26 PM (Dll6b)

18 Study: conservatives more skeptical and less naive than liberals.

Media: Conservatives are teh stupid!

Posted by: JohnJ at March 31, 2012 02:26 PM (Tt6ky)

19 Suggest = subtext

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 31, 2012 02:26 PM (E7NVC)

20

"It's not that conservatives don't trust science. It's the scientific "community" we don't trust. Kind of like how I don't trust medical "ethicists" to be ethical. Or how I don't trust social "justice" to be just. Like that."

 

It's not like we don't have any experience with that trillion-dollar boondoggle called AGW.  If  that's what passes for "science" these days, it's no wonder we  don't trust them. Add to that the idiots that a lot of institues of "higher learning" produce these days, many of whom wouldn't know an original idea   if it bit them in their private parts.

 

Me? Skeptical of pretty much everything these  days? Yep.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 02:27 PM (d0Tfm)

21 Not against science but against pseudoscience.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 31, 2012 02:27 PM (6RnvM)

22 Thin Sam , pretty fucking slim .


All I got brother. Just as good as fuckin' Dick Vitale. My approach to picking them is just a little shall we say, off the reservation. He gets paid to fuck up his picks.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 02:27 PM (r3ITV)

23 6 It's not that conservatives don't trust science. It's the scientific "community" we don't trust. Kind of like how I don't trust medical "ethicists" to be ethical. Or how I don't trust social "justice" to be just. Like that.
Posted by: mama winger

This. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS; A Thousand times this!

Posted by: Ranba Ral at March 31, 2012 02:27 PM (G99e4)

24 "It's the scientific "community" we don't trust." You got that right. At the moment entirely to much "scientific" inquiry is done with a specific result in mind. If they don't get data that matches the end result they want, it's discarded or ignored. That isn't science.

Posted by: StuckOnStupid at March 31, 2012 02:27 PM (R5yLq)

25 I wonder if the all the govt. money has bad influence. Private money expects high standards. Govt money just wants to be spent. We get what we pay for. The more government money is involved, the more researchers we get whose sole purpose is the government money. But the government money is paying for paperwork, so what the researchers provide is paperwork. Whether the results are replicable doesnÂ’t change the grant money theyÂ’ve already received, and probably doesnÂ’t change the grant money theyÂ’re going to receive in the future.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 31, 2012 02:27 PM (2v+KF)

26 one thing leads to another--except when it doesn't

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 02:28 PM (Dll6b)

27 She is in Oregon, most likely floated up from CA. Brings to mind other thing that float.

Posted by: Buffalobob at March 31, 2012 02:30 PM (qiFDD)

28 I quit believing in scientific studies many years ago when I realized that when the media publishes a study, about a year later they publish another study with the exact opposite results.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 02:30 PM (r3ITV)

29 One of the problems may be that researchers are looking at residual affects from past large discoveries. The big story has already been told, now you are just looking at odd bits and pieces, requiring complex statistics to resolve.

Posted by: bobmark at March 31, 2012 02:30 PM (h2nxU)

30 The science is only as good as the scientist and his honesty

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 31, 2012 02:31 PM (eCnLg)

31 I'm listening to the game but I have a question. Is that Clark Kellogg commentating? And if it is, why is he talking like Randy Jackson or whatever the fuck his name is from American Idol?

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 02:31 PM (r3ITV)

32 Speaking of not trusting "science", there's an online poll about Earth Whore versus Human Achievement Hour buried in my sock (assuming "science" succeeds in letting it hot link).
Also here:
www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/019746.html

Posted by: andycanuck at March 31, 2012 02:32 PM (6RnvM)

33 If the rest of the scientific community is like AGW they have all abandoned the scientific method. Therefore it is not science.

It is quackery.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2012 02:32 PM (YdQQY)

34

Interesting...

 

Someone posts some claim (scientific or otherwise), some other person checks it out, and it doesn't hold up.

 

Nice to see that the norm here on the AoSHQ is finally being held to the science community.

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 02:32 PM (KB0hv)

35 He tasks me, and I shall have him.

Posted by: toby928© at March 31, 2012 07:19 PM (GTbGH)

 

The Great White Troll?

 

Racist!!!1

Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Front at March 31, 2012 02:33 PM (NVu2l)

36 Dammit, we don't trust scienTISTS, not science.

Posted by: Ghost at March 31, 2012 02:34 PM (q8nT/)

37 The science is only as good as the scientist and his honesty Silly me . I thought it was about facts .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 02:34 PM (npr0X)

38

The Great White Troll....Moby Troll.

Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Front at March 31, 2012 02:35 PM (NVu2l)

39 Provable , repeatable facts . ^

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 02:35 PM (npr0X)

40 But if you think 47 of 53 top journal articles are bunk you must be a Creationist Flat-Earther!!!!111!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!

Posted by: logprof at March 31, 2012 02:36 PM (ykSKg)

41 Thar she blows--Moby Lick!

Posted by: andycanuck at March 31, 2012 02:36 PM (6RnvM)

42 #6 - mama winger - Too right!

Posted by: Dianna at March 31, 2012 02:36 PM (mKMj1)

43 You reich-wing Rethuglicans wouldn't have a clue about science. This is why I have devised the final solution for those who deny global warming.

Posted by: Girl who was beaten by the ugly stick at March 31, 2012 02:36 PM (r3ITV)

44 Conservatives and other normal people DON'T TRUST POLITICIZED LIBERAL "SCIENCE", such as AGW and every other BS study which seeks to prove some liberal meme.

Posted by: Joe Bidenmytime at March 31, 2012 02:36 PM (Zhdem)

45 I don't give a lick about Lick

Posted by: logprof at March 31, 2012 02:37 PM (ykSKg)

46 wherever you go..........there you are

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (Dll6b)

47 The science is only as good as the scientist and his honesty Silly me . I thought it was about facts . Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 07:34 PM (npr0X) Facts are fudgeable. Seriously ever do a scientific experiment?

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (eCnLg)

48 The Left's love of 'science' is only as an extension of their politics.

Posted by: nickless at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (MMC8r)

49 And I'm so much smarter than you that I even forgot to hit post before I put in the link, so there! Suck it wingnuts.

http://tinyurl.com/d38u8pj

Posted by: Girl who was beaten by the ugly stick at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (r3ITV)

50 Is that the study where the actual question is the following:  “I am going to name some institutions in this country. As far as the people running these institutions are concerned, would you say you have a great deal of confidence, only some confidence, or hardly any confidence at all in them [the Scientific Community]?”

Because if so, there's a universe of difference in saying conservatives don't trust science and conservatives don't trust the Scientific Community.  Also, if so, the fact that this is being reported as conservatives don't trust science may go a long way in explaining why that trust is plummeting. 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (Gk3SS)

51 So they're like liberals - just make sh*t up when it serves their purposes. Fantastic.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (GjDnP)

52 Has anyone read this "article"? Two major points: The question in the survey was not about science, but about trust in the leaders of scientific institutions, not science itself. If anything, conservatives should have more trust in it, because science doesn't believe in more than one right answer. Second, the data clearly show that both CONSERVATIVES and MODERATES have distrust of THE LEADERS of scientific institutions. Liberals are the anomaly.

Posted by: PIleHigh&Deep at March 31, 2012 02:38 PM (v5XAG)

53

 you must be a Creationist Flat-Earther!!!!111!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!

 

Ever been in mid-Texas? Talk about flat...

 

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 02:39 PM (KB0hv)

54

This is not at all surprising to me.  Being a "non-traditional student" doing my grad work in some of the "soft" sciences, I had a chance to get close to several of the instructors doing research, some of it for the government.  Now, a number of the researchers were very knowledgeable and doign legitimate research, but part of MY work was to review other studies for replication and elucidation via our studies. 

 

I saw a lot of crap research thrown out there, "peer-reviewed" even.  So if you see this sort of thing in the "hard" sciences, just imagine what hackery is being touted by those so-called experts in the field of liberal arts. (e.g. - Psychology, Sociology)  Kari Mari Norgaard, anybody?

Posted by: wmac at March 31, 2012 02:40 PM (YXUaU)

55 Facts are fudgeable. Seriously ever do a scientific experiment? Yup . there used to be something called The scientific method .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 02:40 PM (npr0X)

56 Ever been in mid-Texas? Talk about flat...


Way ahead of you.

Posted by: Samuel Adams, Kansas native at March 31, 2012 02:41 PM (r3ITV)

57 Yup . there used to be something called The scientific method . Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 07:40 PM (npr0X) Yeah used to be. Liberals did away with that

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 31, 2012 02:41 PM (eCnLg)

58

No, the problem is that we were told 'The Science is settled' so many times, when we KNEW we were being lied to, that we now take everything with a very LARGE grain of salt.

 

Seems like every 'Scientific' diet ends up being bad for us... and we'd have just been better off eating normaly.

 

Now it turns out that a no Fat diet is HORRIBLE for Men... because Fat turns into testosterone, which helps everything from lean muscle mass, to your immune system...

 

And don't even get me started on ManMade Global Warming... because its only Man Made in the idea that its MADE UP!  Its all done in computer models which do not work!

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2012 02:41 PM (lZBBB)

59 Another thing I love about this retarded claim that conservatives are anti science is that they really mean we're anti AGW and anti evolution (sometimes, and by that I mean anti evolutionary jistory). Those are the two least relevant scientific disciplines.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 31, 2012 02:42 PM (E7NVC)

60 Silly me . I thought it was about facts . Posted by: Bill D. Cat

Sadly, that hasn't been true for quite some time. It was bad enough when you had to worry about simple human corruption and bias, seeing what you wanted to see (Nancy Rays, anyone?).

Now, it's ideological corruption on top of everything else, and it infests the highest levels of authority.

That scares me.

Posted by: Dianna at March 31, 2012 02:43 PM (mKMj1)

61

Posted by: Samuel Adams, Kansas native at March 31, 2012 07:41 PM (r3ITV

 

psst. Game coming up...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 02:43 PM (KB0hv)

62 46 wherever you go..........there you are

 

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 07:38 PM (Dll6b)

 

And ya can't go someplace ya already are... which is why I never say Liberals are GOING crazy...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2012 02:44 PM (lZBBB)

63 The core of the matter is liberal academia. Their corruption is only surpassed by their left-wing politics and incompetence. Like the Soviet Union, doctrates are now handed out on the basis of politics.

Posted by: pat at March 31, 2012 02:44 PM (UFxap)

64 But... but... I read The Republican Brain at the bookstore today, and it said that the reason cons and wingnuts don't like science is because their brains are wired wrong: http://www.thedailybeast.com/ articles/2012/03/31/ book-club-republican-war-on-science.html

[srsly, strip out the spaces and read this shit. it's chilling]

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 02:44 PM (QTHTd)

65 Wingnutz hate science!!! Science proves that small brained conservatives can't understand science! Suck it wing nutz!!!

Posted by: Max Power at March 31, 2012 02:44 PM (q177U)

66 Posted by: wmac at March 31, 2012 07:40 PM (YXUaU) Yep, no shit.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 31, 2012 02:45 PM (E7NVC)

67 Like the Soviet Union, doctrates are now handed out on the basis of politics. Posted by: pat at March 31, 2012 07:44 PM (UFxap) And Grants on ideological grounds

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 31, 2012 02:45 PM (eCnLg)

68 yeah, it turns out it's sugar and processed flour / pastry that makes you fat and gives you heart disease, etc. 

red meat make you so, so horny !!!

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 02:45 PM (Dll6b)

69 Cons hate science

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 02:47 PM (+rBDt)

70 I've been hanging out on Reddit ( I like kitehs ) and they all think conservatives believe man co-existed with dinosaurs, etc. There is a whole generation programmed to believe we are slack jawed jesus freaks.

Posted by: Max Power at March 31, 2012 02:47 PM (q177U)

71 stole that from The Brady Bunch, R13.

Marcia turned into a Coke Whore, still in her 20s--- L.A. was cruel  in the 70s

very, very cruel

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 02:48 PM (Dll6b)

72 red meat make you so, so horny !!! Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 07:45 PM (Dll6b) Well, baby, me so horny. Me so HORNY. Me love you long time. You party? Me sucky-sucky. Me love you too much.

Posted by: Da Nang Hooker at March 31, 2012 02:49 PM (eCnLg)

73 Going to take the dogs around and then go shop for dinner. Something nice, to go with the nice new wines!

Have a lovely evening, moron horde!

Posted by: Dianna at March 31, 2012 02:49 PM (mKMj1)

74 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 02:49 PM (7W3wI)

75

It's really the liberals who are anti-science.   Real science, as even us Republican rubes know, has to be "falsifiable."   The liberals all behave as if, once something is called "science," no one can ever question it.   But if you can't question it -- if, as the libtards suggest, the "science is settled" -- it's not real science, period.  

 

What we're seeing with the global warming pushback is anti-science happening in real time.   A theory is proposed.   Data is martialed to support it.   Other data is gathered that seems to refute it.   In order to reconcile the data, the real scientist must revise the theory.   If he doesn't, he's no longer doing science.  

Posted by: The Regular Guy at March 31, 2012 02:49 PM (nov+8)

76 Remember the smoking lawsuits of the 90's? Didn't they have billion dollar settlements. Made the tobacco companies look worse than Hitler. And the worst part was making victims out of the lifetime smokers. No one, not one single human being with at least 2 working brain cells took their first puff and said "man this cigarette is really good for me, thank God I started smoking cigarettes." Just before they vomited and coughed out their lungs.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 02:50 PM (r3ITV)

77 From Instapundit:

I tracked back to the original paper (http://www.asanet.org/images/journals/docs/pdf/asr/Apr12ASRFeature.pdf) to see what the exact survey question was.
“The GSS asked respondents the following question: “I am going to name some institutions in this country. As far as the people running these institutions are concerned, would you say you have a great deal of confidence, only some confidence, or hardly any confidence at all in them [the Scientific Community]?”(page 172)
The confidence in “people running these institutions” was being measured, not “Science” itself. Huge difference. HUGE!

Posted by: LifeTrek at March 31, 2012 02:50 PM (BLjub)

78

"Has anyone read this "article"?"

 

Well, to be fair, I only skimmed it. I viewed it as someone already writing something with a foregone  conclusion,  namely that "conservatives are knuckle-draggers."

 

Skepticism,  which  is   part and   parcel of curmudgeonism, is a healthy  trait AFAIC. It seems these days, we're bombarded with misinformation, something I've named  "The Fallacious Period" over at my  blog.

 

It's like fire. It depends upon how it's used.  Information, that is.  You've got to have some sort of  inner   Bullshit   Detector to separate the truth from what others want you to believe.  The Left seems to lack that.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 02:50 PM (d0Tfm)

79 That stuff we think we know?We don't know it.

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 02:50 PM (7W3wI)

80 O'Reilly: NBC, Media Inciting Racial Violence"Fox News commentator Bill OÂ’Reilly lambasted the media Friday night, singling out MSNBC and CNN, saying the media "is exploiting the terrible death of 17-year-old Trayvon by convicting the man who shot him, George Zimmerman, of wrongdoing on television."

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:50 PM (uhPd1)

81 well it is in the lead qutoe isn't it? Fewer than 35 percent of conservatives say they have a "great deal" of trust in the scientific community now conservatives do not trust the "scientific community". it has nothing to do with science.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 31, 2012 02:50 PM (Z9EHQ)

82 If your scientific discoveries are legitimate, publicizing your results is probably the dumbest thing you can do.  The best course of action would be private investments, patents, product development, military applications, etc., etc.

The glad-handing for fame and fortune and publicity is for fucking charlatans.

Posted by: Fritz at March 31, 2012 02:51 PM (KWdVT)

83 Scientists fudge the data...manipulate the numbers

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:51 PM (uhPd1)

84

There is a whole generation programmed to believe we are slack jawed jesus freaks.

 

That, I don't really care about. What scared me is when I learned that my sisters kids didn't believe that we had landed on the Moon.

 

They thought it was all made up and faked.

 

Jesus...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 02:51 PM (KB0hv)

85 Global warming is crap.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:53 PM (uhPd1)

86 Watching old Adam West Batman

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:53 PM (uhPd1)

87 Sociologist Kira Norgaard (MA) took this study and concluded that conservatives needed to be forcefully administered drugs that would help cure them of skepticism.
These are sophomoric 'studies' designed to bolster the ego of the adherent and denigrate those in opposition. The fact is the Warmists are far from proving CO2 is a significant forcing factor in climate or even that it is worthwhile to moderate. The models are in complete disarray. So much so we see models citing other models for 'proof' rather that actual data.Seeing such sloppy science, much of it outside the field of training of the 'scientists', would give anyone a bit of skepticism. Unless it was not about science at all...but about politics and the need to control the lives of others. Under any circumstance, Norgaard, is wholly unqualified either as a psychologist or climate scientist. She is an extreme leftist and a bit of a loon.A perfect subject for a study on the current state of education in America, Oregon in particular, as well as why liberals grasp at unproven theories with so much enthusiasm that they threaten assault on those who are reality based.

Posted by: pat at March 31, 2012 02:53 PM (UFxap)

88 Science is crap. never liked it

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:54 PM (uhPd1)

89 There is a whole generation programmed to believe we are slack jawed jesus freaks.Posted by: Max Power

However, this gives us an amazing amount of power as the Lefties found out last week at SCOTUS.

The fact that they are unable to explain our side means they will continually be blindsided. And I intend to make it hurt.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] at March 31, 2012 02:54 PM (JEpGb)

90 (CNSNews.com) - The Obama administration says it will not prosecute a Saudi Arabian national who the administration claimed in congressional testimony entered the United States on a student visa and then was arrested after threatening to blow up the White House. On March 6, top officials from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) told the House Homeland Security Subcommittee on Border and Maritime Security in both written and verbal testimony that DHS had arrested a Saudi national who was “threatening to blow up the White House and the Saudi Arabian Cultural Mission to the United States.”

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 02:54 PM (7W3wI)

91 this is sad.  very very sad.

Posted by: chemjeff at March 31, 2012 02:54 PM (7FadD)

92 I agree HH...the young generation has bought into the Al Gore science.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:55 PM (uhPd1)

93 90 Un.Fucking.Believable.

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 02:55 PM (7W3wI)

94

I didn't wade through the comments here, but let me link to Instapundit, who wrote about this over the week, and had a nice letter from one of his readers.

 

Apparently, the study didn't even ask about "science" but rather the confidence people had in the heads of various specific scientific bodies.

 

link in my sig.

Posted by: Truman North at March 31, 2012 02:55 PM (I2LwF)

95 nearly done with the stupid photos. sorry to be inflicting photos on y'all, just learned that tiy url thingy. no mad dog. not agreeing with sentiment. it is funny. http://tinyurl.com/7t5vd2j

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 31, 2012 02:56 PM (Z9EHQ)

96 don't look now but Louisville is only 2 down to Kentucky

Posted by: Da Nang Hooker at March 31, 2012 02:57 PM (eCnLg)

97 These findings are no surprise to scientists who have tried to reproduce results found in the literature. A lot of published work is, ahem, imprecise. Once you go into the lab and fail to reproduce published findings, you take the rest of the literature with a grain of salt. I think the causes are lying, honest errors, and just plain sloppy work.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 02:57 PM (zXbQT)

98 Here's an example of the mental giants on the left that think they understand science:

Charging all my electronics to prepare for

Posted by: Retread at March 31, 2012 02:57 PM (joSBv)

99 Look up "Antonie Pannekoek"...another "Scientist"

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 02:58 PM (uhPd1)

100

"I agree HH...the young generation has bought into the Al Gore science."

 

It's all they've ever been taught.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 02:58 PM (d0Tfm)

101 If he doesn't, he's no longer doing science.

Bingo. I keep saying that the luminiferous aether theory was a GOOD THEORY. Sure it was wrong, but it was testable. Testable theories are awesome, even if they're proven wrong later. Maybe especially if they're proven wrong later.

AGW is not testable, not even wrong and therefore a fucking fail.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 02:59 PM (QTHTd)

102 Watching old Adam West Batman


I heard he is now the mayor of Quahog.

Posted by: Some piece of shit without a clue at March 31, 2012 02:59 PM (r3ITV)

103 who wouldnt distrust science?

they try to convince us there was a race of 'neanderthals'.

they can tell us exactly how a dinosaur hunted, the environment it dwelled in, what it looked like, how it mated etc...but cant tell us how they became extinct....

they try to tell us how the planet formed (allegedly billions of yrs ago)...but STILL cant tell us how the dinosaurs died out...

"THIS IS HOW OUR PLANET FORMED!!!.....wait...how did they build the pyramid again?"

they say the earth began as a huge ball of molten lava...that became a huge water-ball (over 'billions of years' of course...the magical number of years they use when they dont know jack shit.)

these are just small examples of their oddball teachings, many more can be listed but you get the point.

oh just one more for the hell of it...

"life on this planet came about because the conditions for it existed."

---whenever i hear THAT last line i laugh so hard i could hurl my lunch.

Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 02:59 PM (AJcze)

104 “We won’t win the race for new jobs and new businesses and middle-class security if we cling to this same old, worn-out, tired ‘you’re on your own’ economics that the other side is peddling,” Obama said. “It was tried in the decades before the Great Depression. It didn’t work then. It was tried in the last decade. It didn’t work,” he said. “You know, the idea you would keep on doing the same thing over and over again, even though it’s been proven not to work. That’s a sign of madness.”

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 02:59 PM (7W3wI)

105 Fuck off, uhPd1, you worm-ridden pile of troll dung.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:00 PM (QTHTd)

106 Henryk Grossman and Rosa Luxemburg..

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:01 PM (uhPd1)

107 104 Shit just got real.Stupid ,lazy,purple lipped sucker of cock.

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 03:01 PM (7W3wI)

108 “You know, the idea you would keep on doing the same thing over and over again, even though it’s been proven not to work. That’s a sign of madness.”


That whole statement is so fucking stupid that I can't believe Biden didn't say it.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at March 31, 2012 03:02 PM (Gk3SS)

109 are you ok Boulder toilet Hobo? I am not a troll.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:02 PM (uhPd1)

110 4.339 per gallon here in NORK=CAL Today. the real northern california.

Posted by: Dwyle Flonking at March 31, 2012 03:03 PM (PlcqH)

111 AJcze: you can fuck off too.

Neanderthals are proven to exist by numerous DNA studies, including studies in our own DNA. How dinosaurs lived has little to do with how they became extinct. How the planet formed has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with astrophysics and meteorite chemistry. And so on and so forth.

Well done giving the Left all the talking points they need to prove that there are dolts on the Right as well.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:03 PM (QTHTd)

112 Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 07:59 PM (AJcze) If that was parody, then well done. If not, get thee to a library.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 03:03 PM (zXbQT)

113 Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 07:59 PM (7W3wI)


Well what's he got to lose. Might as well appeal to his communist base. Fucking cocksucker.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 03:03 PM (r3ITV)

114 Whenever the are cluster cases of (fill in the blank) one asks where those the crazy people who 20 years ago did not vaccinate because of science of Autism risks. So now they have (X).


There is not blood test or even a physical test for Autism just observation against standard thus the rates keep climbing. Soon it will be at 1 in 10 and still no one knows why or what to do about it. Lets hope the DSM-V has better definition and complete standard tests not just is the kid not like this they have Autism.

Posted by: Tjexcite at March 31, 2012 03:03 PM (fCBMq)

115 >>It was tried in the last decade. It didnÂ’t work

Which decade is the POS talking about?  I remember a certain "compassionate conservative" throwing all kinds of money at "social programs" in the Oughties.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 31, 2012 03:04 PM (hO8IJ)

116 Red M&Ms cause cancer. The science is settled.

Posted by: 1975 at March 31, 2012 03:04 PM (piMMO)

117 No, Ron, or Stephen, or Dan: you absolutely are a moby troll. I've seen your hash here before.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:04 PM (QTHTd)

118 I heard Einstein was a communist?

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:04 PM (uhPd1)

119 Sharks are blood-thirsty man-eaters. The science is settled.

Posted by: 1975 at March 31, 2012 03:04 PM (piMMO)

120

The problem is that as more money has found its way into certain scientific disciplines, the scientists involved have not gotten smarter.

 

Granted that most of these men and women are at the far right end of the bell curve with respect to IQ,  more money does not make them smarter.  And they are, after all, still quite human and fallible.  Genius and great science are not produced on an assembly line, just because you add some high value inputs. 

Example:

 There has been a great deal of money invested in the big supercollider at CERN in Europe (and the one that was to be built in the US was never built), and there are incredibly high expectations that something tremendous will be discovered as a consequence of this investment.  What if there isn't anything momentous discovered? And what if there are disputable discoveries that are not reproducible by anyone else in the world?  What if ten years from now, they all shrug their shoulders and say, "nothing happened."

 

This is just the extreme example.  There are plenty of other more subtle examples of how big money and big expectations have outrun the scientists' ability to actually discover something "new".  And add to that is the fact that many big name science institutions are really run by people that are "relatively" mediocre, and not brilliant scientists at all.  And then you get major journals that are full of irreproducible results.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes...... at March 31, 2012 03:06 PM (sJTmU)

121 Another ice-age is upon us. The science is settled.

Posted by: 1980's at March 31, 2012 03:06 PM (piMMO)

122 The communists wont change no matter what we say to them..we get labeled racist or mentally ill

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:07 PM (uhPd1)

123 Hey, let's raise taxes on oil companies!



That will lower gas prices for sure!

Posted by: Baraka Obammer at March 31, 2012 03:07 PM (ykSKg)

124 where in NoCal are you Dwyle Flonking???

south of Mendocino,  north of Marin.....

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 03:08 PM (Dll6b)

125 Tjexcite...Yeah autism is a range...aspergers to full blown...alot of money in that field. I have a friend who works with deaf kids with autism and aspergers.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:08 PM (uhPd1)

126

Posted by: Tjexcite at March 31, 2012 08:03 PM (fCBMq)

 

Latest study out had the premise that autism itself was not rising, we were just diagnosing more people with it... ie... it was all the screening and record keeping.

 

Its like ADHD... never heard of it when I was a Kid... and Kids were certainly NOT on meds for it... but now it seems to be very common... so is there suddenly an epidemic? or are undisciplined Boys now going on Meds to calm them down?

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2012 03:08 PM (lZBBB)

127 Okay, need to calm down now :^)

Tjexcite- I think a lot of it is Aspergers being recognised as an autistic spectrum. Based on what I saw in the movie "Wargames" it seems even in the early 1980s, the tech companies were hiring near-autists and putting them under less-autistic "mentors".

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:08 PM (QTHTd)

128 The guy did his PhD in thesis on autism.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:09 PM (uhPd1)

129 Led Zeppelin is still the greatest band to ever assemble on the stage.

Posted by: 19seventyfive at March 31, 2012 03:09 PM (PlcqH)

130 As for ADHD, that's just bullshit; feminised classrooms locking down boys for being... boys.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:09 PM (QTHTd)

131 I keep thinking I've reached the pinnacle but I keep getting more angry every day.Hate Obama more every day.

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2012 03:09 PM (7W3wI)

132 I believe science is false

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:10 PM (oGV7k)

133 Yeag..alot of the high tech genius guys are labeled autistic

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:10 PM (uhPd1)

134 the Buddha says we are not always, in every sense, where we are

---because where we are is the moment, and we are always in the moment  ( although we rarely realize this )

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 03:10 PM (Dll6b)

135 132 I believe science is false

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 08:10 PM (oGV7k)



Would you like to be a Science Czar in my Cabinet?

Posted by: Baraka Zulu at March 31, 2012 03:11 PM (ykSKg)

136 Yeah..I remember there was a shortage of ADD/ADHD meds a few months ago. So many people on them I guess?

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:11 PM (uhPd1)

137 Pharmaceutical companies only have so many vessels to make a batch. Now the meds are being outsourced overseas more and more.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:12 PM (uhPd1)

138 Science is God with all His lies

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:12 PM (oGV7k)

139 136 Yeah..I remember there was a shortage of ADD/ADHD meds a few months ago. So many people on them I guess?  

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 08:11 PM (uhPd1)

 

Nah, the guy in charge of production just went off his meds, and didn't pay attention..

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2012 03:12 PM (lZBBB)

140 Steevy..relax man..not worth getting worked up. Obama wont change no matter how angry you get.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:12 PM (uhPd1)

141 haha...you might be right Romeo. Maybe the ADD batch got contaminated?

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:13 PM (uhPd1)

142 My pharmaceutical stocks are doing well.

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:14 PM (uhPd1)

143 "Reader C.J. Burch writes"

It may even be that intelligence corrupts. They scored 156 on some IQ test, so they're smart enough to pass exams and to get through to a masters' program. Then they co-write something, or even publish some mild original research which doesn't immediately raise flags. (Like Stephen Glass did in TNR under Sullivan.)

Then, they're on their own working toward a PhD - like Stephen Glass suddenly under Kelly. Now they have to produce something. And . . .

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:14 PM (QTHTd)

144 I just got back from the American Chemical Society meeting in San Diego and the theme of the meeting was "Life". Well, the true theme of the meeting was PC and snorting grant money. They tried and executed carbon dioxide for crimes against Gaia. You can see the grant application in the theme of a talk. One after another was driven by AGW and "green" bullshit. The ACS is a useless and corrupt organization these days.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 03:14 PM (zXbQT)

145 [str]dipolar[/str]

Posted by: Magnet at March 31, 2012 03:14 PM (I49Jm)

146 What's really stupid is that Science doesn't trust "science"-

There is no trust in science: only test and retest.

Posted by: kdny at March 31, 2012 03:14 PM (63qg4)

147 She blinded me with bullshit!

Posted by: Thomas Dolby at March 31, 2012 03:15 PM (I49Jm)

148 I think my stach has eggs of the virulent kind. It itches

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:16 PM (oGV7k)

149 Gay people are homosexuals, the science is settled.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 03:16 PM (r3ITV)

150 Yeah..true kdny

Posted by: Ron at March 31, 2012 03:16 PM (uhPd1)

151

"they try to tell us how the planet formed (allegedly billions of yrs ago)...but STILL cant tell us how the dinosaurs died out..."

 

Global warming, doncha know.

 

Oh wait. Must have been cooling, seeing as how they were cold blooded.

 

OTOH, maybe they weren't cold blooded. So it could have been an asteroid hit. Or maybe volcanoes...

 

In other words...who the hell knows.

 

Question is, what will kill us?

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 03:18 PM (KB0hv)

152 Posted by: 19seventyfive .......You sir have obviously never heard the musical stylings of Axxicorn! I kid of course, Led Zep is the all-time champ, I was just looking for a chance to mention Axxicorn. An old friend from grade school posts on FB about his bar band, the aforementioned Axxicorn, once in a while. Their emblem appears to be a Unicorn with an axe in it's skull where the horn should be. I've got a tin-ear so I have no idea if it's good for it's genre, which I wouldn't even know what to call.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 31, 2012 03:19 PM (HethX)

153 I just got back from the American Chemical Society meeting in San Diego and the theme of the meeting was "Life".


Wasn't chemjeff at that meeting too?

Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 03:20 PM (X6akg)

154 Fuck, Kentucky may win this.

Posted by: logprof at March 31, 2012 03:20 PM (ykSKg)

155 Question is, what will kill us? Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 08:18 PM (KB0hv) Hi there! Be sure to see my new movie to see how it all ends.

Posted by: Space Jockey at March 31, 2012 03:21 PM (I49Jm)

156

Bee Gees, Disco, The Fonze, Barrie Manilow, Baba Striesand, etc.

At least the mary jane is better today. Thanks.

Posted by: 19seventyfive at March 31, 2012 03:21 PM (PlcqH)

157 Oh, now I know...."    .....You may be wondering what an axxicorn is, but don't worry about that yet. All you need to know is the band Axxicorn is a crossbreed of love for classic metal and a penchant for Greek mythology. With songs like "Poseidon" and "Theseus and the Minotaur," this trio of metalheads has been laying waste to Portland audiences in recent months, bringing Sabbath-style metal back to life without a single trace of irony. Guitarist Jeremy Hanson lays out riffs that make heads bang, relentlessly shredding and thick with doom, while bass player Kerr Mahnke thumbs out lines as heavy as Zeus slinging lightning bolts from Mount Olympus, and Mike McDonnell's drumming is like the chaos that existed before the Gods intervened. Altogether they create a cathartic noise much needed in these times, and currently in the process of being captured on tape for their first album. MARANDA BISH>>>>"

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 31, 2012 03:21 PM (HethX)

158 Well, I'm rooting for Ohio State now.

Posted by: logprof at March 31, 2012 03:21 PM (ykSKg)

159

As for ADHD, that's just bullshit; feminised classrooms locking down boys for being... boys.


 

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 08:09 PM (QTHTd)

 

Been trying wife's feminized modern approach to our (now) 12 y/o son's academic and domestic performance for years with worsening results.  Kept telling her that we might have to go the old school route and was met with "Ugh, that's so barbaric, I don't feel like you should have to do that." 

 

School comes out and mentions ADD.  I say bullshit, mom says "Well, they deal with this all the time."  I still say bullshit and our boy's on pace to have to repeat a grade.  I tell his mother "Just tell him, and mean it, that if he doesn't buckle down in school and stop lying about his homework, you're going to spank him".  The boy is deathly afraid of a spanking.  She reluctantly agrees.  Lays out the consequences, never has to lay a hand on him.

 

Little sucker turns into a model student in less than two weeks and sustains it for going on three months.  Has a much better self esteem now, doesn't dread school or homework.  Almost a different kid. 

 

Wifey asks "How did you know?"  I reply "I was a little boy once too, you know."

 

No therapy, no meds, no tutoring.  No bullshit.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 31, 2012 03:22 PM (rX1N2)

160 Criminality arises from poverty. The science is settled.

Posted by: The20th Century at March 31, 2012 03:22 PM (piMMO)

161 Well, I'm rooting for Ohio State now.


No you're not.

Posted by: Samuel Adams, KU fan at March 31, 2012 03:22 PM (r3ITV)

162 8 minutes til East coast morons turn all their lights on.

Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 03:22 PM (X6akg)

163 i believe i am snocked and commuting with God

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:23 PM (oGV7k)

164
Cold fusion only works in old Hellman's mayo jars, not Kraft.

It's those types of niggling details that prevent dummies like Begley from replicating journal studies.

Posted by: I. M. Grantworthy at March 31, 2012 03:24 PM (7+pP9)

165 Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars. The science is settled.

Posted by: the 1990's at March 31, 2012 03:25 PM (piMMO)

166

Posted by: logprof at March 31, 2012 08:21 PM (ykSKg)

 

Ok, now the game I've been waiting for. Nothing against you, but I'm going for KU.

 

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 03:26 PM (KB0hv)

167 There is good reason to mistrust the scientific community since it has become known that some 80% of studies are either wrong or were fabricated in whole or in part.  Also, when you have government giving away billions of dollars, do you think any of those studies would come to the conclusion that there is no problem and that no more money should be spent "studying" it?


Posted by: crosspatch at March 31, 2012 03:26 PM (ZbLJZ)

168 More science geniuses:

Everyone, get ready to save the world in nine minutes.

Posted by: Retread at March 31, 2012 03:26 PM (joSBv)

169 I hate to admit it, but I am watching The Break Up again. Well, at least part of it. The part where the dancing, singing sprite kicks the shit out of Vince Vaughn is worth the price of admission alone.

Posted by: the 1990's at March 31, 2012 03:27 PM (piMMO)

170 8 minutes til East coast morons turn all their lights on.

I've still got my Christmas lights hooked up. That should piss off my uber-libtard neighbors across the street. Heh.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 31, 2012 03:27 PM (vbh31)

171 110 4.339 per gallon here in NORK=CAL Today. the real northern california.

Posted by: Dwyle Flonking at March 31, 2012 08:03 PM (PlcqH)

 

Redding?

Posted by: Ammo Dump at March 31, 2012 03:28 PM (WUWb9)

172 Off sock

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2012 03:28 PM (piMMO)

173 I've still got my Christmas lights hooked up. That should piss off my uber-libtard neighbors across the street. Heh.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 31, 2012 08:27 PM (vbh31)




LOL!  Do it!


Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 03:28 PM (X6akg)

174 Wasn't chemjeff at that meeting too? Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 08:20 PM (X6akg) Yes, did not run into him though.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 03:29 PM (zXbQT)

175 I read the book

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:31 PM (oGV7k)

176 172.. Alturas.

Posted by: Dwile Flonking at March 31, 2012 03:31 PM (PlcqH)

177 "Sharks are blood-thirsty man-eaters. The science is settled." - they do attack people

"Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars. The science is settled." - somewhat true; those who conduct their lovelives on the assumption that men and women are the same, may as well send out for that subscription to Cat Fancy magazine now and save time

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:32 PM (QTHTd)

178 LOL! Do it!

Done. I hope Santa shows up.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 31, 2012 03:32 PM (vbh31)

179 Redding is Rio Linda with trees

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, thinking in PALINdromes at March 31, 2012 03:32 PM (Dll6b)

180

"Granted that most of these men and women are at the far right end of the bell curve with respect to IQ, more money does not make them smarter."

 

Perhaps they were  approached with a large sum of  money precisely because  they were so smart:  They   were already respected, doubtless   their writings were read  by someone before   they approached, and they knew how data works well enough to know how it can be manipulated  to  arrive at any conclusion that might be alread made by elites.

 

Anything that happens after that can be attributed to a non-functioning conscience,   IMHO.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 03:32 PM (d0Tfm)

181 The Earth is the center of the universe.The science is settled.

Posted by: the 16th century at March 31, 2012 03:33 PM (piMMO)

182

Actually, since we are sort of on the subject...

 

Cold Fusion. It was "reported" as some sort of great energy breakthrough. But it didn't happen.

 

I'm guessing that many persons tried to duplicate the findings, and found out it didn't hold up.

 

Science as it should be...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 03:33 PM (KB0hv)

183 Pretty sure the toby is gay. My Gaydar is usually accurate. Toby, there is nothing wrong with being gay, lay off the self quilt.

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:34 PM (oGV7k)

184 Don't forget the lights in the closets....unless the point of the exercise to be *seen* using electricity, in which case save the ten cents and leave them off.


Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 31, 2012 03:34 PM (hO8IJ)

185 55Facts are fudgeable. Seriously ever do a scientific experiment?


Yup . there used to be something called The scientific method .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at March 31, 2012 07:40 PM (npr0X)

 

 

 

 

I believe it was Thomas Kuhn back in 1960 who pointed out that the scientific method is inherently subjective. In particular there is a great big leap from observed data and the formulation of a hypothesis, and another between the formulation of the hypothesis and coming up with experiments to prove or disprove the hypothesis. When a scientist has to make one of these leaps he or she ends up relying a set of a priori beliefs, the paradigm, and their own imagination, plus whatever other non-scientific factors may be influencing them. I don't think there is anyone studying philosophy of science today who would claim that science has ever or ever will be about just the facts.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 31, 2012 03:36 PM (oqYdg)

186 Hello retards, I'm late to the party and it probably has been mentioned already but I have been told on numerous occasions throughout my life that eggs, bacon, beer, wine, hobo tracking,  heavy metal, masturbation and playing with fire works are dangerous to my health.

Well. I'm 41yrs old now, I can still see and I have all my digits to hit the bunk while shitfaced. My doctor has recently told me that I am "the picture of health"  my tinnistus is a littlte flared up but I solve that problem by simply turning up the volume on my favorite Slayer album.  I eat beef at least twice a week and smoke a 1/2 pack a day. I'm 30lbs overweight and have never felt better. I work 55 hours a week, play golf on the weekends and enjoy friends and family every weekend when possible.  I have a beautiful wife and have never been happier...THAT is the difference between  a liberal and a conservative. I will will live my life the way I see fit not the way some cheese dick hippy douch bag thinks is best for every one else. I work for my own insurance and I will get my moneys worth come the end of my rope.

Fuck off loser, douch, lefty, assholes.



Posted by: dananjcon at March 31, 2012 03:36 PM (bX0ZS)

187 Rain follows the Plow. The science is settled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_follows_the_plow

See? Climate nuts have been around a long, long time.

Posted by: the 19th century at March 31, 2012 03:36 PM (piMMO)

188 Hmmm. I thought it was supposed to be lights on if you're politically incorrect?

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 31, 2012 03:36 PM (vbh31)

189

Result: 47 of the 53 could not be replicated.

 

As a physical scientist, I'm amazed any of them could be replicated. Molecular biology is a joke as a science. Even molecular biologists tacitly agree: they write their results in the past tense (action completed in past time), rather than in the present tense (it was true before, and remains true today), which real scientists conventionally do. That constitutes an admission that what they observed yesterday may or may not be observed tomorrow.

 

Example: "hitting ourselves in the nuts hurt" vs. "hitting ourselves in the nuts hurts."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 03:37 PM (a6+6S)

190

"someonebefore theyapproached,"

 

...should  read "someone   before they were approached."

 

Either I should   just give up and call it a night, or Pixy's hamsters   are now eating entire letters in addition to spaces.

 

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 03:37 PM (d0Tfm)

191 64 The Republican Brain at the bookstore today, and it said that the reason cons and wingnuts don't like science is because their brains are wired wrong Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo Handy. Since they're defective you don't need to argue with or convince them, just defeat them.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at March 31, 2012 03:38 PM (d9lOz)

192 "Sharks are blood-thirsty man-eaters. The science is settled." - they do attack people


*****

They do attack people is  far cry from the sheer insanity that occurred following the release of Jaws.

Posted by: the 19th century at March 31, 2012 03:38 PM (piMMO)

193 I'm in my shed, overhead and bench lights on. The house is up and running as usual, so is the neighborhood. Even the guy with the Obama signs in '08 has outdoor lights on.

Posted by: lincolntf at March 31, 2012 03:39 PM (hiMsy)

194 Odds are that North Korea isn't showing the lights tonight...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 03:40 PM (KB0hv)

195 In other news, can we at least get spacing between paragraphs back? Everything I write looks like a confused mess.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 31, 2012 03:40 PM (oqYdg)

196 Grey Fox, you need to hit enter at LEAST 3 times between paragraphs.

Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 03:41 PM (X6akg)

197 > 52 Has anyone read this "article"? Two major points: The question in the survey ... Posted by: PIleHigh&Deep The only reason I even metioned the first article was that it sparked me to write the post which is mostly about the 2nd article. The TONE of the 1st article griped me but I'm used that tone by now.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at March 31, 2012 03:41 PM (d9lOz)

198 "I'm in my shed, overhead and bench lights on. The house is up and running as usual, so is the neighborhood. Even the guy with the Obama signs in '08 has outdoor lights on." I've got a big industrial space heater in the garage, I fired it up and opened the garage door. Just doing my bit for global warming.

Posted by: StuckOnStupid at March 31, 2012 03:41 PM (R5yLq)

199 Toby, just because you are gay is no reason to hate you. Toby, I don't really like gay men, but I am of the left so I say live and let live.

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:41 PM (oGV7k)

200 In other news, can we at least get spacing between paragraphs back? Everything I write looks like a confused mess.


*****
Two spaces will work.

Posted by: the 19th century at March 31, 2012 03:42 PM (piMMO)

201 196Grey Fox, you need to hit enter at LEAST 3 times between paragraphs.

Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 08:41 PM (X6akg)

 

 

 

Testing...

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 31, 2012 03:42 PM (oqYdg)

202

"Fuck off loser, douch, lefty, assholes."

 

Thread Winner! FTW!

 

OK, I'm    off. And it's time to eat   dinner  while watching the Nationwide race with B'Gal, so I'm leaving too.

 

Y'all have fun and try   not to  trash the place, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at March 31, 2012 03:42 PM (d0Tfm)

203 I don't think there is anyone studying philosophy of science today who would claim that science has ever or ever will be about just the facts. Posted by: Grey Fox at March 31, 2012 08:36 PM (oqYdg) Well, it is the closest we can get and no matter how hard you believe, the cold hard facts win. Despite all the things you mention Science has managed to do a damn fine job explaining the world around us. No other enterprise even comes close. Until we find or make something better, it will have to do.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 03:43 PM (zXbQT)

204

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 08:41 PM (oGV7k)

 

Dude, what is with this crap?

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 03:43 PM (KB0hv)

205 Thanks B-Boy I am sick of lefty assholes telling me how to live.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 31, 2012 03:45 PM (bX0ZS)

206 Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 08:41 PM (oGV7k)

Dude, what is with this crap?

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 08:43 PM (KB0hv)



It's Raykon....he ate all his crayons.

Posted by: Tami at March 31, 2012 03:45 PM (X6akg)

207 Well, the true theme of the meeting was PC and snorting grant money.

And now I'm imagining some half naked Michael Mann lookalike sucking up powder from a hooker's cleavage. Some things imagined cannot be unimagined :^x

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 03:45 PM (QTHTd)

208 Well, it is the closest we can get and no matter how hard you believe, the cold hard facts win.

Despite all the things you mention Science has managed to do a damn fine job explaining the world around us. No other enterprise even comes close.

Until we find or make something better, it will have to do.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 08:43 PM (zXbQT)

 

 

Oh, it is a very useful tool, no doubt about that. The problem is that many those facts aren't nearly as cold or hard as you think...

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 31, 2012 03:45 PM (oqYdg)

209 dude, what is with the hate on the right???

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:45 PM (oGV7k)

210 Your bumps, let me feel your bumps.

Posted by: Phrenology at March 31, 2012 03:46 PM (GTbGH)

211

The ACS. Hmmmm.

 

My undergrad adviser (and I worked for him commerically for a year) was a big wheel in the ACS back in the early 80's in the Polymer branch.  A smart guy, but not really THAT smart.  Even he acknowledged how political the ACS was even back then.  There are undoubtedly benefits to being in the ACS if you are a chemist of some kind, but as the years go by, those benefits elude me.

 

One of the most brilliant chemists I ever knew just had a BS, but he had a brilliant inventive mind, and made a lot of money as a chemist, just because of his insights that many PhD's never had.  His ideas and results were extremely reproducible, which is actually a key to success.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes...... at March 31, 2012 03:47 PM (sJTmU)

212 28I quit believing in scientific studies many years ago when I realized that when the media publishes a study, about a year later they publish another study with the exact opposite results.
 

Posted by: Samuel Adams at March 31, 2012 07:30 PM (r3ITV)

 

 

Biomedical research, generally speaking, isn't worth shit. That's why this happens. Only after something has been replicated many times do I even start believing it.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 03:47 PM (a6+6S)

213 I am sick of the right wing fascists telling me how to live

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:47 PM (oGV7k)

214
I believe it was Thomas Kuhn back in 1960 who pointed out that the scientific method is inherently subjective.

Arrgh! I haven't heard that name in at least a decade and now you're taking me back to my hated grad school days. I was trying to evaluate a taxonomic system, which led me into such fields as library science and the philosophy of science. It would've been interesting if I had the time to devote (years), but I had to give it up and pick something else that I could research in a couple of weeks.

I can see how academia can be appealing to the tenured professor, but to the student it's a pressure cooker that really sucks

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 31, 2012 03:50 PM (7+pP9)

215 Someone just fired up a big riding mower somewhere. Never heard one running at night before.

Posted by: lincolntf at March 31, 2012 03:50 PM (hiMsy)

216 The problem is that many those facts aren't nearly as cold or hard as you think... Posted by: Grey Fox at March 31, 2012 08:45 PM (oqYdg) All of them are subject to future testing, but the essential pillars of science are doing just fine. The fundamentals of physics, chemistry, and biology are not keeping me up at night.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 03:50 PM (zXbQT)

217

what is with the hate on the right???

 

I'm trying to tone that down. After I clean up Al Sharpton, Spike Lee, and Barak Obama.

 

Could be a while...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 03:51 PM (KB0hv)

218

51So they're like liberals - just make sh*t up when it serves their purposes. Fantastic.

 

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2012 07:38 PM (GjDnP)

 

It's not that they make shit up. It's that they fail to sweat their hypotheses and data appropriately. They're more inclined to believe results that confirm their hypotheses, and to reject those that do not.

 

They mean well, but just are not sufficiently rigorous intellectually. Hard core physics and chemistry research is generally sound; biomedical research, not so much. Climastrology isn't worth any more than Miss Cleo's predictions.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 03:52 PM (a6+6S)

219 if i want a prostitute if i want to do drugs if i want to drink who are the right wing fascists to say no?

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:52 PM (oGV7k)

220

4.339 per gallon here in NORK=CAL Today. the real northern california.

 

Hamilton City?

Posted by: Ronster at March 31, 2012 03:52 PM (T1nDt)

221

209dude,

 


what is with the hate on the right???

 

 

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 08:45 PM (oGV7k)

 

 

Studies have shown that anyone who says "Dude" is an asshole.

 

The science is settled.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 03:54 PM (a6+6S)

222 The fucked up formatting here is really getting old.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 03:54 PM (a6+6S)

223 live with it. adapt

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:55 PM (oGV7k)

224 Ace is losing against reality

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 03:58 PM (oGV7k)

225
Biomedical research, generally speaking, isn't worth shit. That's why this happens. Only after something has been replicated many times do I even start believing it.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 08:47 PM (a6+6S)


Most of these studies reported by the press are metastudies, which are just a combination of prior studies. Because the metastudies have a much larger population they suggest greater accuracy but often they are a hodge-podge of studies with very different populations, assumptions, methodologies and inherent biases. In other words, they're junk. But they are also powerful tools to deceive the scientifically uninformed.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 31, 2012 03:59 PM (7+pP9)

226 The ACS is a useless and corrupt organization these days.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 08:14 PM (zXbQT)

 

 

 

True dat. Reading C&EN pisses me off no end. Those silly girls who write global warming shit in C&EN should be home having babies and baking brownies.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 03:59 PM (a6+6S)

227 Reality(the commentor above) strikes me as those neck-beard atheists that go on DC rallies.

Posted by: HoboJerky at March 31, 2012 04:00 PM (dptRY)

228 Girls, the Gods want you

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:01 PM (oGV7k)

229 The fucked up formatting here is really getting old.


****

And as bad as it is, my space bar is effed up. Every comment is a real effort.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2012 04:02 PM (piMMO)

230 Hobo, you believe Jeebus was the son of God and God created man in his own image?

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:03 PM (oGV7k)

231 With ... oh, things like globull warming, the alar scare, conventional light bulb outlawing, supporting windmills and solar panels at taxpayer expense who doesn't love crony-science-projects?

Posted by: middle-america at March 31, 2012 04:03 PM (a0U5y)

232

who are the right wing fascists to say no?

 

None of us...

 

Want to smoke?

 

Try the other side of the line wanting to ban you...

 

But yer just having fun, and so am I...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 04:03 PM (KB0hv)

233

In other words, they're junk. But they are also powerful tools to deceive the scientifically uninformed.

 

 

True dat. To bring non cognoscenti up to speed, I tell them about the "study" that said drinking improved longevity (Yay! I'm gonna live forever!).

 

Turns out that they forgot to take into account the fact that the terminally ill generally don't drink at all. It's amazing how hard it is to get good bar service in intensive care. Duh. They didn't think of that? Seriously?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:04 PM (a6+6S)

234 HH, I am money, HH I am mammon

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:05 PM (oGV7k)

235 Reality(the commentor above) strikes me as those neck-beard atheists that go on DC rallies.

*****

What cracks me up is that this is a business for Ace and, as such, his visitors and click count, I believe, create value for his advertisers so, Reality, continue to post away.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2012 04:05 PM (piMMO)

236 Do you even know what site you are on? This is the AoSHQ, home of the AoSHQ lifestyle. Valu-rite, hobo hunts, and general debauchery. Anyways, saying "Jeebus" means you are sub-neckbeard. Maybe you are literally the beard on someone's neck!

Posted by: HoboJerky at March 31, 2012 04:05 PM (dptRY)

237

230Hobo, you believe Jeebus was the son of God ...?

 

 

No, that would be Karl Marx.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:05 PM (a6+6S)

238 Hobo, you believe Jeebus was the son of God and God created man in his own image?

You know nothing of my beliefs, raykon; and they are besides none of your concern. Also, get bent.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 04:07 PM (QTHTd)

239

223live with it. adapt

 

 

My witch doctor says things will improve if we sacrifice a liberal.

 

If that fails, we'll try a higher primate.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:07 PM (a6+6S)

240 Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 31, 2012 08:59 PM (7+pP9)


That is what the EPA used for their second hand smoke study.  One tobacco company sued.  The judge threw the EPA out of court.  Yet the EPA still uses that flawed study to regulate second hand smoke.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2012 04:07 PM (YdQQY)

241 All right, THE game is coming on. Back whenever...

Posted by: HH at March 31, 2012 04:07 PM (KB0hv)

242 I MAKE JOKE I CALL NAME GATORADE ME BITCH

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:07 PM (dptRY)

243 I wouldn't say ACS is "useless and corrupt".
It is definitely ossified and takes its members for granted.  It has a virtual monopoly on professional science meetings in chemistry.  PittCon is starting to chip away at that very seriously, which is good.
And did you all see one of the recent C&EN issues when the Union of Concerned Scientists was quoted - not once but twice - as an "nonpartisan advocacy group" or some such, without ever giving a hint to its incredible leftwing bias?  urgh.

Posted by: chemjeff at March 31, 2012 04:09 PM (7FadD)

244

Yet the EPA still uses that flawed study to regulate second hand smoke.

 

 

You're hitting my hot buttons here. I'm a non-smoker, but if secondhand smoke were a major health hazard - after dilution of the smoke by what, 1000:1?, then smokers would drop dead before finishing their first cigarette.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:10 PM (a6+6S)

245 ok I want my own blog. i will be nice...

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:10 PM (oGV7k)

246 Probably my favorite unappreciated line from Ghostbusters. I couldn't really understand it properly as a teenager in the theater back when.

My other favorite bit that gets overlooked is Egon's 'really big explosion coming' gesture when the containment system is shut down.
http://tinyurl.com/3ggwtl9

Posted by: epobirs at March 31, 2012 04:11 PM (kcfmt)

247 generally

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:11 PM (oGV7k)

248 I saw the Beatles play live and they were great. My dad was a scientist.

Posted by: Hopped up on Something at March 31, 2012 04:13 PM (WCuHB)

249 the dim light is on. what

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:13 PM (oGV7k)

250

243I wouldn't say ACS is "useless and corrupt".

 

I would, and I've been a member since Moses was a nipper. It doesn't do squat for its members. Look at subscriptions for journals; now that they're digital, what expense does ACS incur in publishing them? Why don't they provide general access to members?

 

Why does ACS get all PC about H1-B visas?

 

You're right, ACS is definitely ossified, and takes its members for granted.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:15 PM (a6+6S)

251 ladies, we can make billions with the smart against the dumb... The Colbert way

Posted by: Reality at March 31, 2012 04:16 PM (oGV7k)

252 If second hand smoke were as serious a threat as the EPA claims, we would all be dead from all smoke by now. Smoke obviously isn't good for anyone but you could make the case that oxygen is a bigger killer. The EPA needs to have their budget cut by about 65%.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 31, 2012 04:17 PM (WCuHB)

253

And did you all see one of the recent CEN issues when the Union of Concerned Scientists was quoted - not once but twice - as an "nonpartisan advocacy group" or some such, without ever giving a hint to its incredible leftwing bias?

 

 

This is one of the problems with ACS - it, like all other organizations that is not explicitly conservative, has become leftist infested. It's not just the silly girls who write CEN; it's the whole goddamned organization. From Alar to AGW to "green chemistry," the retards have taken over the asylum, and are trying to convince everyone else that they're not geeks. Alas, sadly, they are. Embrace your inner geek!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:18 PM (a6+6S)

254 Anyone who has read the works of James Randi understands that the conduct of scientific research is a human endeavor like any other. Meaning it is subject to the failings and frailties of humanity.

Randi found on several occasions that scientists made excellent targets for con artists because they didn't incorporate the possibility of intentional falsehood in their analytical approach. They could be suckered by techniques that would get a carny run out of town.

Posted by: epobirs at March 31, 2012 04:21 PM (kcfmt)

255 But can we talk about reality?

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:23 PM (oGV7k)

256 The ACS meeting in SD also reminded me of this. "Welcome to City 17."

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 04:24 PM (zXbQT)

257 I have so many guns, where do I hide them all in case some on breaks in? Hide them in plain site, but where?

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:25 PM (oGV7k)

258 I've noticed the subtlety of peer review and public perception on my own work.  I've been actively discouraged in noting limitations of methodology or room for improvement.  Point of fact is that if somebody has to figure out where you went wrong then you're more likely to get on through.  Most professors don't have time for proper peer review.  Since I'm a salaried employee I take as long as I like on peer review (usually fairly quickly because I relish the opportunity to pick things apart and its nice when i get bored).

Nevertheless, if professorship status is dependent upon the creating of success then you're really going to work hard to bury your inadequacies in the face of a reviewer.  If you goof do you have the temerity to own up to it... when it means you're getting a Kia instead of an Acura in your garage?

Also note that for every person in science there is a person aspiring to be accomplished.  The true toiling scientist exists but he/she is not the norm.  For most, including myself, the activity is a recitation of talent... for which we believe we should be rewarded.  Now, if you believe yourself worthy of reward and you're faced against not receiving that award do you fudge or do you do things honestly?

The problem is, if you do well enough at the game then you are celebrated.  There are other gaming situations.  I've been told you can often extract 3 papers out of simple adjustments.  Come up with something big enough then you can put stronger and stronger versions of the same each time thus increasing your paper count.  Totally stupid, absolutely.  Within somebody's perrogative.  Almost needs to be if you are an assistant professor.

Science likely has a problem... and its a tradition of culture.  As it was said, gone are the days of high advancement... not saying its impossible... just more incremental... but you only get the big invites if you come up with something big.  You can just imagine then the type of personalities occupy these situations.  The UAH shooter should be a good example of this.

Posted by: Former Mass. Resident at March 31, 2012 04:26 PM (BeB0s)

259 Im skeered, thats why I own so many guns.

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:27 PM (oGV7k)

260 #252

Certainly everyone over the age of 40 would long since been dead. When I was a kid about the only place one expected to see a NO SMOKING sign was at a gas pump or similar location where the threat wasn't eventual cancer but immediate flaming death.

Posted by: epobirs at March 31, 2012 04:27 PM (kcfmt)

261 What drives me crazy, and demonstrates the degradation of contemporary science, is the general lack of exploring alternative theories or obvious follow-up questions in experiments. I swear, they've been training them to come up with a hypothesis and then prove it right, rather than try hard to prove it *wrong*, which is what you should be doing. I mean, it might look to be right by coincidence, but if it's wrong, it's straight up wrong, and you've definitely learned what *isn't* true. A good example of it - they had one of the normal "Conservatives are stupid" type studies linked... I don't remember whether it was here or Instapundit. Anyways, they asked moderates political questions in an unhurried atmosphere, then under various kinds of stress. Under stress, the answers given were more conservative. The study authors repeated it several times with different stressors, same results. They proudly announced this proved conservatism was the default, unthinking mode. Really? How about this competing hypothesis: people shade or lie about their beliefs, especially if they're politically incorrect, but have a harder time doing so when drunk, distracted, or in a tearing hurry. Since "politically correct" is the same as "liberal", one would expect people to act more conservatively under stress. This seems reasonable and explains the results, too. So... why didn't they think of this hypothesis too, and try to eliminate it? Modern science sucks, that's why. Too hasty, too halfassed. (Either way, it suggests you should bring your 'moderate' friends to the bar and get 'em hammered before bringing them to the polls. Valu-Rite malt liquor... it's a moron's best friend!)

Posted by: Locarno at March 31, 2012 04:30 PM (VNuHM)

262 Actually, any good scientist doesn't trust the scientific community. This is why they do repeat studies and verify the findings of others. And why honest scientist welcome the scrutiny. They know they can make mistakes and vindication comes only with verification.

Posted by: epobirs at March 31, 2012 04:30 PM (kcfmt)

263 Im skeered that God will not really protect me like He claims, so I carry

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:31 PM (oGV7k)

264 Yeah, we've got a problem, all right.

Good summary with many hyperlinks is here at a health care ethics blog:  http://tinyurl.com/837k9vs

Posted by: Anonymoose at March 31, 2012 04:31 PM (vGlQg)

265 gotta love the tards here...

"neanderthals have been proven thru DNA, and our own DNA"

--- as if DNA-science itself isnt filled with hilarious theories too stupid to mention. i guess ghosts are real too because you know...we once shared DNA..

"if that was parody..."

--no its not parody, not in any way.

scientists try their best to explain away stupid incoherent "studies" about everything from neanderthals to how the freakin planet formed, but are plain ass-ignorant about things like...oh...lemme see... supposed extinct fish swimming around the coasts of africa.

and some of you idiots buy into it lol  but carry on, it gives me alot to snicker at.


Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 04:33 PM (AJcze)

266 #103

You've only served to demonstrate your own wretched illiteracy in scientific matters. And logic. And basic grammar.


Posted by: epobirs at March 31, 2012 04:33 PM (kcfmt)

267 ladies i am skeered and I dont trust God. What should I do?

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:34 PM (oGV7k)

268 epobirs, forget it, he's rolling.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 04:36 PM (QTHTd)

269 I own semi auto shotguns with 14 round clips, thats how paranoid I am. 99 percent sure they are legal

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:37 PM (oGV7k)

270 "You've only served to demonstrate your own wretched illiteracy in scientific matters. And logic. And basic grammar."

--- oh no, not a grammar-watcher...thats just so....2008 of you, captain.

Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 04:39 PM (AJcze)

271

What drives me crazy, and demonstrates the degradation of contemporary science, is the general lack of exploring alternative theories or obvious follow-up questions in experiments. I swear, they've been training them to come up with a hypothesis and then prove it right, rather than try hard to prove it *wrong*, which is what you should be doing.

 

Strictly speaking, a "theory" is a set of hypotheses that have not been contradicted by experimental results over a considerable period. Laymen use "theory" in place of "hypothesis," i.e., a model proposed to account for earlier observations. And it is not possible to prove a hypothesis to be right, only to determine that it is not contradicted by the experimental results in hand to date.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at March 31, 2012 04:39 PM (a6+6S)

272 Some big-wig scientists thought the could sell off the field's long-term reputation in exchange for some short-term gelt, in the process selling the rest of us out to the Big Government Bozos that want to run our lives. And now they're surprised nobody trusts them anymore? The school teachers, Unions, Universities and court systems have been doing the same thing for years, and their reputation sucks now, too. As for politicians, I'm not sure they ever had a reputation to sell. (But if they ever did, they'd have sold it long ago.)

Posted by: Socratease at March 31, 2012 04:41 PM (Q0j9m)

273 Trollbaiting: raykon, why won't the left wing fascists let you smoke or own guns or drive without a seatbelt? I know, I know, using that stupid logic again. I denounce myself

Posted by: DC in Towson at March 31, 2012 04:44 PM (I/cLr)

274 "hey look at these neanderthal bones weve found!!" (all 28 of em that resemble my leftovers from dinner)

skulls and remains that dont even match up, laughable 'studies' of how they MIGHT have migrated (oh they can tell us how dino's migrated...from a bazillion yrs ago....but not these cave-men....yeah right)

i could go on and on and on....

have they finished their whacky-doodle crack pot studies on the DNA helix yet?

Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 04:45 PM (AJcze)

275 #126

I don't know when you were a kid but ADHD has been discussed in psychology since the 60s to my knowledge. I first heard the phrase in reference to my oldest brother in the early 70s. And Ritalin was being prescribed for hyperactive kids at least as early as 1973 when it was referenced in an issue of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers where Fat Freddy poses as an out of control grade schooler in hopes of obtaining free drugs.

It takes a long time for these things to grow into blanket diagnoses slapped on a vast number of patients beyond those who truly fit the profile. But once it hits a critical mass it becomes a household word almost overnight.

Posted by: epobirs at March 31, 2012 04:45 PM (kcfmt)

276 I want to buy a rotary drum, but no sure how reliable the feed is. Zombies are a bitch, i need reliability so help me out.

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:45 PM (oGV7k)

277 What should I do?[i/]

Emulate Hunter S. Thompson's last moments.

Do it. You pissant coward.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 31, 2012 04:49 PM (zX1/n)

278 I own semi auto shotguns with 14 round clips, thats how paranoid I am. 99 percent sure they are legal


*****

Well, they ARE legal in Florida..

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2012 04:49 PM (piMMO)

279 "Neither group of researchers alleges fraud..."  and here is a big part of the problem.  When results cannot be replicated and it becomes clear that the data was fudged (as in the scientist quoted who only got the published result in 1 of 6 tries) fraud SHOULD be alleged!  If a few scientists started losing their reputations, funding, or even going to jail for using fraud to get funding, scientists might start being a little more careful about their results again.  Once upon a time, scientists worried about their reputations and that was a good thing.

Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at March 31, 2012 04:49 PM (5z6T9)

280 I can afford the best. I will pay you to test it for me.

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:50 PM (oGV7k)

281 265 gotta love the tards here...
*************

Boiled down to its essentials, you seem to be arguing that because science doesn't understand everything, it understands  nothing.

Yet here you sit using a computer and the 'net and the world-wide-web, all based on science, applied science.

And I suppose you don't drive, turn on electric lights, fly in airplanes ... or get flu shots...or ever see a doctor.    Physics, chemistry, thermodynamics, aerodynamics, metallurgy, genetics, pharmaceuticals....nahhhhh......useless.

.....after all, scientists don't know shit....right?

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at March 31, 2012 04:50 PM (SV4OI)

282 .....after all, scientists don't know shit....right?

Holy missing the point, batman.

Posted by: dick cheese at March 31, 2012 04:51 PM (GTbGH)

283 I guess this puppet would have been more appropriate.

Posted by: strawman at March 31, 2012 04:52 PM (GTbGH)

284 'Comon', raykon, do it for Mother Gaia. In honor of Earth Hour. Your High Priest Al Gore demands your sacrifice.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 31, 2012 04:54 PM (zX1/n)

285 ".....after all, scientists don't know shit....right?"

--- look over your head, towards the horizon...see that? thats my point flying by you.

im not saying ALL scientists or even ALL scientific studies

...just the obvious loony ones.

Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 04:54 PM (AJcze)

286 Some "science" is bogus, yes.  However what you read about real science in the papers is the result of trying to use small words to a journalist who would rather be covering the OWS protests or "making a difference" plus the editor still resents the C he got in Chemistry so he hacks the hell out of what the journalist barely understood in the first place.  A great illustration of the process linked in my name...

I remember the cold fusion thing.  A professor yanked me into his office to discuss it and he showed that if the reports were correct about the neutron emission rate, a) the researchers would be dead and b) they had discovered something stronger than the nuclear force to keep everything from blowing up.  He did this by doing estimates on a chalkboard.

Posted by: bad cat robot at March 31, 2012 04:55 PM (fwc5w)

287 i personally believe some scientists are FOS, like the the cholesterol ones. I love eggs. what?

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:55 PM (oGV7k)

288 God my cheeks are so skinny, my pecs are so big. What

Posted by: Reality Sucks at March 31, 2012 04:57 PM (oGV7k)

289 Each time someone in the 0bama Administration makes a statement, I am more convinced we have reached the point of an idiocracy.

Posted by: Joe Bidenmytime at March 31, 2012 05:07 PM (Zhdem)

290 Each time someone in the 0bama Administration makes a statement, I am more convinced we have reached the point of an idiocracy.

I get the same sinking feeling watching certain of the comments here.

American politics is like the ending of Mass Effect 3 - you get your red option and your blue option, or you can throw away your vote with the Green Party: whichever you choose, the ending is going to waste your money and leave you feeling cheated.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 31, 2012 05:12 PM (QTHTd)

291 "He said they'd done it six times and got this result once, but put it in the paper because it made the best story. It's very disillusioning."

Yes. This is called the "representative sample." I've witnessed this several times. Reasonable labs will try to replicate its results at least once. If it is a core study used as a foundation for subsequent studies, that replication should hit +90% success rate.

I've also seen an occasional "representative sample" so manipulated that I'd define it as fraud. The desire to acquire grant money, a name, and/or prestige is quite real. I'd wager scientists are no more honest than the general population of any other profession save for car salesman, MFM, lawyer, or politician. Research is an industry. It's also subsidized by government to great degree which lends itself to great waste and abuse. Obviously.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2012 05:57 PM (eHIJJ)

292 Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at March 31, 2012 09:33 PM (AJcze) Okay, you say what you write is not a parody. I'll take you at your word. So be it: you are posting nonsense. You have given no hint you can tell the difference between fact and fiction, reason and raving.

Posted by: eman at March 31, 2012 06:02 PM (zXbQT)

293

My husband is a pharma chemist in private industry.  He always said that university research was sloppy and shoddy because the researchers aren't  accountable to anyone, especially once they get tenure.  They get more kudos for the big grant bucks than the actual results of their research.  If scientific peer review included actual attempts to replicate results, then there'd be some accountability. 

Of course there are plenty of academic scientists who are scrupulous to the max; but we don't hear about them because they're too busy doing things right.

In the pharma industry, a scientist not only has to replicate the experiment--but he must replicate it using safe-to-ingest, low-cost materials and processes which will all hold up under the triple tests of clinical trials, mass production, and FDA scrutiny.  If that isn't accountability, I don't know what is.

 

 

 

Posted by: Taxpayer1234 at March 31, 2012 06:05 PM (NpmCe)

294 Maybe we should start shoveling some of that sweet Obama money to Dr. Begley, who appears more interested in cancer than publications.

Posted by: motionview at March 31, 2012 06:05 PM (i+DU3)

295 @ eman: amen, bro!

The first thing about satire is that it's got to work.  This doesn't.  Disclaimers that it's not parody or satire just makes matters worse.

Given that all the comments relate to natural history in one fashion or another, the guy sounds like he's trying to jeer at Bible-thumpers.  Or maybe he is one.  Who the eff knows.

Time for this thread to die.

Posted by: Tears in Rain at March 31, 2012 06:10 PM (SV4OI)

296 What is the most popular adjective  in liberal scientific lexicon?

"Unexpected"

 

Posted by: Joe Bidenmytime at March 31, 2012 06:53 PM (Zhdem)

297 And thus we have real-world proof for all those Hollywood & anime idiots in white lab coats who come up with really nifty ideas....that ultimately result in killer plagues, killer cyborgs, or other disasters loosed upon the world.

Posted by: exdem13 at March 31, 2012 07:54 PM (1GunI)

298 Joe, that's one of many reasons my husband ran away screaming from academia.  These guys aren't just sloppy, they're freakin' dangerous. One time my husband's lab partner sloshed some dangerous stuff around--not under the hood--and the fumes required everyone on the floor to evacuate.  When I learned what happened, I called said lab partner and promised if it happens again, I will castrate him.  He became an instant safety hound after that.

Posted by: Taxpayer1234 at March 31, 2012 07:54 PM (NpmCe)

299 I think the leaders of the AGW movement have worked hard to earn our distrust.  It's difficult for me to trust someone who falsifies and hides data and reaches conclusions not supported by facts, but I could, I suppose, get over those hurdles.  Some people have no other way to survive.

When they ignore the obvious, that big round thing in the sky, when they reach their conclusions, I charitably assume they aren't so smart.  It's good they are arguing nonsense instead of designing buildings, bridges or planes that might kill people when they fail.

When they want to influence my life, or take my money, my apathy vanishes.  Not one dime, and whatever they want, I am against.

Posted by: MarkD at April 01, 2012 03:04 AM (iYBP2)

300 As a molecular biologist, I can attest that I have run into this many times over the years.  When I was a grad student and a postdoc in academia, often someone would publish a sexy result and get a good position based on the paper, then after they left the lab no one could reproduce the result.  Now I work at a biotech company and have found many times on different projects that published work can't be reproduced.  Sorry to say, but Chinese researchers in the US are the worst.  Scientific success is their ticket to stay in America and they'll do anything to achieve it.  And don't even bother with research done in labs in China.  Most of it is BS.

Posted by: Pervy Grin at April 01, 2012 04:14 AM (2W1oR)

301 Read about Begley and his endeavors and was impressed. I also know folks in the pharma industry who have attempted to question the release of "studied" drugs because of genuine concern and they were fired, thusly. Don't get in the way of anything the gov't is involved in because you are expendable...in essence, anyway.

Posted by: defendUSA at April 01, 2012 03:14 PM (nAAtF)

302

Even if we toss out the obviousness of the influence of personal political/sociological opinions on how science is conducted and used - like the global warming issue - what most people fail to consider is that --- the deeper you go into investigating the different avenues within science, you find that at some point they all take "leaps of faith."  Places, often approaching the core of each scientific discipline, where theory outpaces provable data or observable facts. 

There is much science does not know or cannot explain.  To fill in those gaps, and guide future research, theory comes into play.  We can also call these guesses.

But whenever this talk about science comes up, the other side pretends science is unquestionable.

Posted by: iggyb at April 01, 2012 06:51 PM (Q85Fh)

303

About 10 years ago the New England Journal of Medicine had an article that stated "more than 50% of the research touted in our pages will later be proven false"!  They then went on to say due to poor statistical analysis etc etc etc for reasons why it was false.

If 50% of a the Science in the Medical Journal of record for the USA will be found later to be false!

Part of the blame is to be found in the "publish or perish" mentality in academia.  The more you publish the higher you rank.  They must not care if what you publish is sound or not!  Just get it out there!

 

 

 

Posted by: Chewman at April 02, 2012 06:06 AM (P9kUH)

304 Oh but evolution is 100% unquestionable truth, its got a scientific consensus, its settled science, and if you disagree, you're a lunatic or a shill for some group.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2012 07:01 AM (r4wIV)

305 After 35 years in engineering I've learned to check everything twice.  Management hates older engineers, especially when you  tell them, "We've already tried that and it doesn't work."

Posted by: burt at April 02, 2012 11:27 AM (OzqQM)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
216kb generated in CPU 0.71, elapsed 2.2679 seconds.
62 queries taking 1.792 seconds, 541 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.