July 30, 2016

Saturday Afternoon Chess/Open Thread 07-30-2016 [OregonMuse]
— Open Blogger



Lucas_Van_Leyden_Painting_The_Chess_Players_525.jpg

The Chess Players - Lucas Van Leyden ( 1508 )

Good afternoon morons and moronettes, and welcome to the Saturday Afternoon Chess/Open Thread, the only AoSHQ thread with content specifically for all of us chess nerds who pay homage in the temple of Caïssa, goddess of stalemates and perpetual checks. And, for those of you who aren't nerdly enough for chess, you can use this thread to talk about checkers, or politics, or whatever you wish, only please try to keep it civil. Nobody wants to get into a pie fight on a Saturday afternoon


White Mates In 1


20160730 - Mate in 1.jpg
FEN: [1kr1r3/2p1q1bp/3p2p1/p4p2/P7/3P2P1/1BPQ1PBP/1R3RK1 w - - 0 1]

Notes On Lucas van Leyden's Painting

Sometimes I look at these old chess-themed paintings where the board and pieces don't look quite right, like this one, and I think that the artist probably didn't know much about chess, or didn't care, so he drew some chess-like pieces and a chess-like board and deemed it sufficient for his purposes. I mean, whoever heard of a playing chess on a 12x8 board? Click on the pic for a larger version. The board and pieces look quite odd.

But my criticism of the artist's supposed lack of precision is wrong.

What's being shown here is actual chess, not chess as we know it, but rather an old variant known as "courier chess", which dates back to the Middle Ages, and is indeed played on a 12x8 board. The rules, as near as I can tell, are the same as medieval chess with some addition of some funky pieces, the Courier, the Sage, and the Jester.

There's an entire website devoted to this particular variant. It even has for sale a set of courier chess pieces based on what they've been able to reconstruct from the painting, and other historical sources. Issues Raised by Morons

The big cheating thing with these "mates in 2" or "mates in 3" puzzles for me is that I'd just stare at the board haplessly with no idea at all if there was a chance of checkmating unless the puzzle was identified that way. If you didn't say "White mates in 2," I'd just start wandering around the board, advancing my pawns and vaguely trying not to lose.

Posted by: iforgot at July 23, 2016 07:38 PM (5o5ek)

This raises an issue I've been thinking about for a bit, namely, whether to announce what kind of problem it is, whether it's "White to play and win" or "White mates in 3". I'm tempted to just leave such descriptions off because you're not going to see them in an actual game, anyway. So all you'll see is "what is White's best move?" and the line you must discover will do one of the following:

--wins the game
--achieves a draw
--wins material
--secures overwhelming positional superiority.

Please note that with some problems, there may be more than one of these possibilities available. Therefore, you need to keep in mind the class chess rule "if you see a good move, wait, look again, there may be a better one."

This adds the additional burden of having to do a serious assessment of the position in order to understand the possibilities, and from there, determine a plan. Which, actually, is what you have to do during an actual game.


So let's see how this works:


20160730 - Problem 01.jpg
FEN: [r1bq1rk1/pp2np1p/2n2Bp1/3pp3/3R3Q/2P5/P1P2PPP/2K2BNR w - - 0 1]

It's White's turn. What's the BEST move?

Did you get it? OK, now try this one:


20160730 - Problem 02.jpg
FEN: [q1r2r1k/4p2p/p2pbPp1/1p1N4/3B2PP/2P5/PP1Q3R/K2R4 w - - 0 1]

Again, it's White's move. What's the best he can do here?

Let me know if this format, where I don't tell you the specific goal of the problem, is good, bad, meh, or etc.

Chess Considered Harmful

The article 17 Reasons Why Chess Is Not Good For You is simply a trashing of all the world champions one by one starting with Morphy. It is by turns annoying, infuriating, factually inaccurate, hilarious, and is badly in need of editing throughout. But despite all of its defects, I wouldn't link to it here if I didn't think it might be worth taking a look at.


Endgame of the Week


20160730 - Endgame of the week.jpg
FEN: [2r5/6RP/7K/pp6/1k6/8/8/8 w - - 0 1]

White wants to queen his pawn WITHOUT having Black being able to trade his rook for it. The reason is that King-and-Rook vs. King-and-two-connected-pawns is maybe not winnable. Failing that, if White's king is close to the black pawns when the exchange is made, that should improve his winning chances.

This is not going to be easy. But the technique that White is going to be using to win here is that is handy to know, as you may be able to use it if you're confronted with a similar position in one of your own games


___________

Solutions Update:

White mates in 1.

1. Bd4#

The bishop has to move out of the way so the rook can give check, but only on d4 does it cocer the Black king's flight square at a7.


Issues Raised by Morons Problem #1

My first impulse in a position like this is 1.Qh6 which sets up Qg7# next move, and there's generally nothing Black can do about it. But here, Black does have a resource, namely 1...Nf5, which puts the kibosh on Qg7# and, incidentally, presents White with a nasty fork on his rook and queen.

Instead, White should go all in with 1.Qxh7+. Black has to take the queen:

1...Kxh7

The rest is mopping up:

2.Rh4+ Kg8
3.Rh8#


Issues Raised by Morons Problem #2

First, there's this knight fork:

1.Nb6 exf6
2.Nxa8 Rxa8

Kudos if you saw it. It provides White with a pretty good sized material advantage which should be enough to win the game. But there's an even better move, the simple, yet devastating:

1.f7#

Checkmates are always better than winning lots of material. I like how the pawn move both uncovers the check and cuts off the flight square.


Endgame of the Week

"The common endgame study theme is for White to begin by blocking the opponent's rook from h8. When the Black rook attempts to get behind the White king for a skewer by moving to White's first rank, the White rook checks the opponent's king and moves his own king one square closer to the first rank. If Black attempts a skewer on White's king, it can now be blocked by the rook."

So, the obvious try for White to queen the pawn is:

1.Rg8

The best reply for Black is

1...Rc1!

So 2.h8Q is answered by 2...Rh1+ followed by the trade of rook-for-pawn. White wants to avoid this. He has a plan:

2.Rg4+!

He wants to move his King down to h4 so his rook can block any checks at h1 and enable the unobstructed queening of his advanced pawn.

2...Ka3
3.Kh5 Rc8

There's an alternate line 3...Rc5+ 4.Kh4 Rc8 5.Rg8 Rc4+ 6.Kg3 Rc3+ 7.Kf2 Rc2+ 8.Ke3 Rh2 9.h8=Q Rxh8 10.Rxh8 that may be better since it forces the trade.

4.Rg8 Rc1

White tries once again to queen, which Black parries with his skewer threat

"This process of Black shuttling his rook from his first rank to White's first rank is repeated and so are White's blocks, successive checks on the opponent's king and shuttling his king along the file one square closer to his own first rank."

5.Rg3+! Ka2 6.Kh4! Rc8

"Once all pieces reach White''s first rank, which is virtually inevitable, there are mutual absolute pins of rooks against respective kings forcing an exchange. White's pawn queens on h8 and wins."

7.Rg8 Rc1
8.Rg2+! Kb1
9.Kh3 Rc8
10.Rg8 Rc1
11.Kh2 Rc2+
12.Kh1 Rc1+
13.Rg1 and now Black can't avoid the exchange of rooks and his pawn queens.

I'm not altogether happy with this solution. I'm thinking it's not airtight. But it does illustrate a useful technique of queening a pawn that is useful enough to remember.

Anyway, I stole this problem from here, which is where the quoted material comes from.

___________

Note: that cryptic line of letters and numbers you see underneath each board diagram is a representation of the position in what is known as "Forsyth-Edwards Notation", or F.E.N. It's actually readable by humans. Most computer applications nowadays can read FEN, so those of you who may want to study the position, you can copy the line of FEN and paste into your chess app and it should automatically recreate the position on its display board.

___________

So that about wraps it up for this week. Chess thread tips, suggestions, bribes, rumors, threats, and insults may be sent to my yahoo address: OregonMuse little-a-in-a-circle yahoo dott com.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:16 PM | Comments (382)
Post contains 1426 words, total size 10 kb.

1 Game night!

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 12:15 PM (DrCtv)

2 A Knight walks into a bar. The bartender says ' why the long face?'

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 12:17 PM (MNgU2)

3 A Knight walks into a bar. The bartender says ' why the long face?' Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck Ce n'est pas drôle.

Posted by: John Kerry at July 30, 2016 12:19 PM (UPYhp)

4 Is chess that app that has all the kids looking at their phones and walking into traffic?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 30, 2016 12:20 PM (mgbwf)

5 The chicks in that picture...would not hit.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 12:22 PM (qUNWi)

6 >>> It's White's turn. What's the BEST move? It worked. I saw a good move, saw black's counter play and found a better move.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 12:22 PM (eiFlk)

7 The people in that painting do not exactly seem real excited.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 12:23 PM (DrCtv)

8 Whoa! Did you see the nun slipping a bishop to her sister?

Posted by: Eromero at July 30, 2016 12:25 PM (zLDYs)

9 The two people playing are so stoned.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 12:25 PM (qUNWi)

10 Is that guy trying to keep her from making the move? Back the F up dude.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 12:25 PM (MNgU2)

11 >>> The chicks in that picture...would not hit. The guy playing has three hands an an illuminated coat lining.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 12:25 PM (eiFlk)

12 What's being shown here is actual chess, not chess as we know it, but rather an old variant known as "courier chess", which dates back to the Middle Ages, and is indeed played on a 12x8 board. The rules, as near as I can tell, are the same as medieval chess with some addition of some funky pieces, the Courier, the Sage, and the Jester. I will never learn the game, ever. However, I learned something new about chess and that's pretty cool.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at July 30, 2016 12:26 PM (voOPb)

13 Guy thinks he's Napoleon.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 30, 2016 12:28 PM (IqV8l)

14 Whoa! Did you see the nun slipping a bishop to her sister? Posted by: Eromero Saw a movie that had a scene like that.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 12:28 PM (UPYhp)

15 1st: Bd4 Uncover's check by rook, bishop covers one escape square 2nd: Qxh7 Kxh7 Rh4 Kg8 Rh8 Mate 3rd: f7 Mate Yes?

Posted by: Protest Manager at July 30, 2016 12:28 PM (EHXFy)

16 The guy "helping" the lady player has tiny, tiny hands.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 30, 2016 12:29 PM (mgbwf)

17 This raises an issue I've been thinking about for a bit, namely, whether to announce what kind of problem it is, whether it's "White to play and win" or "White mates in 3". I'm tempted to just leave such descriptions off because you're not going to see them in an actual game, anyway. ------------------- Yikes! All because of me? No no no, I was half referring to my own limitations. Besides, someone (fluffy?) pointed out that the more of those puzzles you do, the better you get at spotting them when you're playing for real. I'd like to keep the baby-steps puzzles; you could always throw in one or two of the open-ended ones for the smart morons.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Drooper at July 30, 2016 12:29 PM (5o5ek)

18 I see a federal judge again just made up a ruling to fit his political ideology. These judge need to face consequences for their extralegal actions.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale-Skeet Surfer at July 30, 2016 12:29 PM (hVdx9)

19 Stratego. Now there's a game.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 12:30 PM (MNgU2)

20 The chicks in that picture...would not hit. Posted by: eleven **** There are women in that painting? I could not tell. Ewww.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale-Skeet Surfer at July 30, 2016 12:31 PM (hVdx9)

21 The people in that painting do not exactly seem real excited. It is clear that this was before the invention of giant foam fingers and hats shaped like wedges of cheese.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 30, 2016 12:33 PM (/wm8n)

22 19 Stratego. Now there's a game. And what about Battleship, eh?

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 12:34 PM (DrCtv)

23 Bitch Set me up.

Posted by: SquareHead Mayor[/i][/b][/s] at July 30, 2016 12:36 PM (8J/Te)

24 Your first mistake was letting women play chess.

Posted by: Johny Jihad at July 30, 2016 12:37 PM (BZey7)

25 HEY BUSTER, NO HELPING THE CHICK!!!

Posted by: The Dude in the Red Hat with 50 Guilders Riding on the Fat Burgher at July 30, 2016 12:37 PM (/wm8n)

26 The men don't look particularly attractive either. ;^) It's just the style of the artist as well as the style of the time. I don't think I had ever seen a picture of women playing chess, but obviously some must. I had a male friend I worked with who was teaching me chess but that was 25 years ago, and then he left for another job so I never did learn to play. My husband could probably teach me a little about it but he hasn't played chess in years.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 12:37 PM (HXQyP)

27 >>> ar that this was before the invention of giant foam fingers and hats shaped like wedges of cheese. That would be an interesting sight at a chess tournament :--)

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 12:38 PM (eiFlk)

28 Awesome artwork. The people look like the different chess pieces

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 12:38 PM (fK4Z3)

29 Solutions: White Mates in 1: Bd4 mate It's White's turn. What's the BEST move? QxP KxQ Rh4+ Kg8 Rh8mate Again, it's White's move. What's the best he can do here? f7 mate. Endgame of the Week Rg8 Rc6+ Kh5 Rh5+ Kh4 Rh4+ Rg4! and t black rook is pinned, and white gets a queen, which can stop the pawns.

Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 12:38 PM (jBuUi)

30 The dude she's playing is loaded like a freight train. Oh yes I went there.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at July 30, 2016 12:39 PM (DMg4m)

31 I CARRY GINORMOUS COLONIES OF BACTERIA IN MY QUEEN. ALSO, IDI SAYS "HI."

Posted by: MIRROR UNIVERSE CHESS SNOT at July 30, 2016 12:41 PM (qcmqL)

32 The dude she's playing is loaded like a freight train. Oh yes I went there. Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet Flyin like an aeroplane feelin like a space brain

Posted by: Axl Rose at July 30, 2016 12:42 PM (UPYhp)

33 She's holding the rocket queen. Mr. Brownstone is coaching her.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at July 30, 2016 12:43 PM (DMg4m)

34 I mentioned a while back that our local library was hosting a monthly chess time for kids. Just learned that a few adults started showing up so the staff is starting a monthly meet for older folks. The only requirement is to know the basic moves for each piece. Assuming someone is willing to play an absolute beginner, I will finally get to play a human.

Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 12:46 PM (V+03K)

35 16 The guy "helping" the lady player has tiny, tiny hands. Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 30, 2016 05:29 PM (mgbwf) A short-fingered vulgarian perhaps?

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 12:47 PM (0mRoj)

36 Test

Posted by: Lauren at July 30, 2016 12:47 PM (rm0aI)

37 I'm sorry, sir. They melvined me.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 30, 2016 12:48 PM (SN7FX)

38 Zombie, dude, you need to help me out here:

Here is where the endgame is from:

https://goo.gl/AxFPiO

I'm not altogether happy with their solution. I like the technique, but I don't think the solution is airtight, particularly with the resource 3...Rc5+, a line you can see in the problem solution

Is it the general idea for white to prevent Black from trading his rook for the advanced pawn, leaving White with a very problematic KR vs. KPP (connected) endgame?

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 12:49 PM (OxsRO)

39 34 I mentioned a while back that our local library was hosting a monthly chess time for kids. Just learned that a few adults started showing up so the staff is starting a monthly meet for older folks. The only requirement is to know the basic moves for each piece. Assuming someone is willing to play an absolute beginner, I will finally get to play a human.
Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 05:46 PM (V+03K)


Oh, cool. Now you can start kicking some butt.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 12:51 PM (OxsRO)

40 18 I see a federal judge again just made up a ruling to fit his political ideology. These judge need to face consequences for their extralegal actions. ------------------------- NC voter law? Needs to go back to the entrumpened Supreme Court in 2017.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Drooper at July 30, 2016 12:52 PM (5o5ek)

41 I just found my Chessmaster 8000 disk.

Anyone know anything about it? Is it worth installing?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 30, 2016 12:57 PM (Zu3d9)

42 Well I got the 1 move mates again for puzzles 1 and 3. And was stuck on puzzle 2 requiring a set up move first until reading the solutions from other commenters.

Posted by: PaleRider at July 30, 2016 12:57 PM (Jen0I)

43 Is there a 'standard' size for a board and pieces used in public matches? The one I have is two feet square and may be rather large.

Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 12:57 PM (V+03K)

44 Started playing chess again recently. There's a sort of senior citizens' activity center at my angel's church, amd volunteering there lets me get in some more time with and around her, while also giving me the chance to work off some of my bad karma, to cross the streams, as it were. Them old folks play a mean game of chess, and they're not at all shy - for cultural reasons - to put cash on the line. Same with the old women and their mah jong. The priest sees and knows all about this, and I've seen him join a game more than once.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 12:57 PM (JDh3u)

45 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 30, 2016 05:57 PM (Zu3d9) If it's DOS, I would say no...

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 12:59 PM (DrCtv)

46 Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 05:59 PM (DrCtv)

Windows....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 30, 2016 01:00 PM (Zu3d9)

47 Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 05:38 PM (jBuUi) I'm not following the endgame solution - if white moves Rg8 he loses his rook, which defeats the stated purpose of the problem.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:00 PM (0mRoj)

48 Posted by: iforgot says God bless Drooper at July 30, 2016 05:52 PM (5o5ek)


Progressives have never considered any legal decision settled unless it is an ideological match to Marxist theory, and they will pursue any means to subvert any non-Marxist ruling.

Conservatives, watching from their thrones of ideological purity, consider judicial action is just part of the "democratic" process and stand by and watch the "Living" Constitution give another dying gasp.

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at July 30, 2016 01:01 PM (wYnyS)

49 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 30, 2016 06:00 PM (Zu3d9) Well heck, if it's Win '95, you should be good to go.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 01:02 PM (DrCtv)

50 39 ... Ha! Actually I anticipate getting my ass beat but this would be the first game against the living in over fifty years. I'm looking forward to it. If the others aren't more experienced there should be a chance for some laughs.

Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 01:05 PM (V+03K)

51 Was waiting for this, went down to feed cats and clean up water still annoyingly coming in basement. Shop vac water and was emptying it in my sump pump hole, dropped the drain stop in the hole and it disappeared and can't find it. Assumed it went up one of the French drain pipes but don't know how far. On to the problems, and watching the lovely Jenny Agutter in Logan's Run (1976)

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 01:05 PM (bksJQ)

52 Conservatives, watching from their thrones of ideological purity, consider judicial action is just part of the "democratic" process and stand by and watch the "Living" Constitution give another dying gasp. Posted by: Hrothgar at July 30, 2016 06:01 PM (wYnyS) ----------------------- Aye. What we need now is patriots.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Drooper at July 30, 2016 01:06 PM (5o5ek)

53 IMO, the best problem format is: "White (or Black) to play. Find the best continuation." It helps develop your in game process and makes it much more difficult to immediately ignore a lot of lines until you identify one with a good result. With a generic mate in X problem, you know you're on the wrong track if you have to start looking at variations with more than X moves. It's useful for introducing themes or focusing a newer player's attention, but it's ultimately unrepresentative of the actual game.

Posted by: Sjg at July 30, 2016 01:07 PM (gDSJf)

54 There's a sort of senior citizens' activity center at my angel's church, amd volunteering there lets me get in some more time with and around her, while also giving me the chance to work off some of my bad karma, to cross the streams, as it were.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 05:57 PM (JDh3u)


I also play chess at local senior center and I get chewed up and spit out regularly.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:07 PM (OxsRO)

55 OM - I do all right - I used to play quite regularly when younger - but these old guys are good at the head-fake. They'll reach for half a dozen different pieces before making the move they'd intended all along; makes me waste processing power trying to work out the possible paths. Shrewd old fellows.....

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 01:12 PM (hUr8f)

56 >>> 51 Was waiting for this, went down to feed cats and clean up water still annoyingly coming in basement. Shop vac water and was emptying it in my sump pump hole, Can you send some of that rain my way?

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 01:12 PM (eiFlk)

57 43 Is there a 'standard' size for a board and pieces used in public matches? The one I have is two feet square and may be rather large.
Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 05:57 PM (V+03K)


Whatever chess set you choose, the King should be  3.5 - 4 inches in height. And the board should be comparable. The USCF rulebook has a far more exact description, but that's roughly what it is.

Oh, and their pieces should be the Staunton design. No 'Civil War' or 'Game of Thrones' themed sets, for example, are allowed in tournaments.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:12 PM (OxsRO)

58 Shrewd old fellows.....

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 06:12 PM (hUr8f)


Yep. This ain't their first rodeo.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:13 PM (OxsRO)

59 Let me know if this format, where I don't tell you the specific goal of the problem, is good, bad, meh, or etc. ----------------- I just solved the first one (the new, improved style). Hence, I like it so far. Stay tuned...

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Drooper at July 30, 2016 01:14 PM (5o5ek)

60 I would say, keep most of the puzzles with actual goals (like "White to mate in 3") and have at most one vague one ("What's White's best move"). The puzzles with actual goals are hard enough for me.

Posted by: Joshua K. at July 30, 2016 01:15 PM (oCZ4e)

61 Aye. What we need now is patriots.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Drooper at July 30, 2016 06:06 PM (5o5ek)


Zzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Posted by: America at July 30, 2016 01:15 PM (OxsRO)

62 I also play chess at local senior center and I get chewed up and spit out regularly. Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 06:07 PM (OxsRO) I read a Smithsonian article many moons ago about how chess is a young man's game and checkers is for older people. But that's on a competitive level.

Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 01:15 PM (3fDJP)

63 Had the honor of playing against a fellow who was a two-star general in the ARVN. Cagey old bird he was, too. We talked abiut his experiences over the pieces andbhe succeeded in distracting me enough to wipe the board with me, take my five dollars, and thank me graciously for the game. There's a reason he was a General....

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 01:16 PM (hUr8f)

64 >61 God helps those who help themselves

Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 01:16 PM (3fDJP)

65 For a dry 2 months it's rained at least once every 3 days last two weeks. Think I liked it with the mates in x problems.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 01:16 PM (bksJQ)

66 Great chess thread.... The women in the picture are mostly likely harlots in a drinking establishment and are passing the time between customers. The dudes in the red hats are the Mac Daddy's and the other fellows are either paying up or still negotiating the price.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 30, 2016 01:18 PM (ej1L0)

67 Do any of y'all play chess online? Is there a favored platform, program, app, or site for it?

Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 01:18 PM (3fDJP)

68 OM, Except for the first problem, usually white mates in one, I like the idea of just designating which side moves. If there is a specific purpose you're illustrating, state that. It's closer to real playing conditions.

Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 01:18 PM (V+03K)

69 These are great threads OregonMuse, thanks for putting them up

Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 01:19 PM (3fDJP)

70 63 Had the honor of playing against a fellow who was a two-star general in the ARVN.
Cagey old bird he was, too.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 06:16 PM (hUr8f)


Wow. I assume we had to get his ass out of there when the commies overran the place. If he was that high a rank, he was probably close to the top of Charlie's hit parade.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:19 PM (OxsRO)

71 Kari: https://www.chess.com/club/moron-horde

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 01:20 PM (eiFlk)

72 57 ... OM, Thanks for the chess set info. That's what I needed to know.

Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 01:21 PM (V+03K)

73 67 Do any of y'all play chess online? Is there a favored platform, program, app, or site for it?
Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 06:18 PM (3fDJP)


Chess.com. You can even join the Moron Horde chess group. We've got over 80 members.

You can join chess.com for free.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:21 PM (OxsRO)

74 and watching the lovely Jenny Agutter in Logan's Run (1976) Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 06:05 PM (bksJQ) ============== Of that time and genre, I always thought the lovely Lynn Frederick was the classic English rose. Unfortunately, she drank herself to death at a young age.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 01:22 PM (iQIUe)

75 God helps those who help themselves Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 06:16 PM (3fDJP) That is from Ben Franklin, I believe, but it is not from the Bible. The Bible talks about God helping those who have no help. It doesn't meant that we shouldn't-if we're person of faith take initiative in doing what we believe God calls us to do based on Holy Scripture-and for Christians-the words of Jesus, but sorry it's one of my pert peeves tp present "God helps those who helps themselves" as if it is a direct quote from the Bible and as if God will bless any plan we put our mind to.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 01:22 PM (HXQyP)

76 Thanks fluffy and OM. I figured that had been mentioned before. Anybody ever play star wars chess? Very stupid windows chess game on floppy.

Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 01:23 PM (3fDJP)

77 As an antidote to the "17 Reasons" article, see the chess column at Standpoint, which generally features much more sympathetic portraits of great chessplayers: http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/taxonomy/term/231/6534

Posted by: Don at July 30, 2016 01:24 PM (R8iLy)

78 I didn't say it was from the Bible Fen I just said it in response to someone who's convinced the country is asleep.

Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 01:25 PM (3fDJP)

79 Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 06:25 PM (3fDJP) When people say that I usually say tongue in cheek-"How about you lead us first, General?"

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 01:26 PM (HXQyP)

80 That's an awful lot of chess players. Was chess a team sport in 1508?

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 01:32 PM (sdi6R)

81 73 67 Do any of y'all play chess online? Is there a favored platform, program, app, or site for it? Posted by: Phone of kari at July 30, 2016 06:18 PM (3fDJP) Chess.com. You can even join the Moron Horde chess group. We've got over 80 members. You can join chess.com for free. Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 06:21 PM (OxsRO) It'll also analyze your game for you which, if you're like me, is very embarrassing. Good learning tool, but embarrassing. Also humiliating.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:33 PM (0mRoj)

82 OM - he was on one of those choppers you see the pics of the navy dumping off the decks of the ships. He got out on plenty of time, moved to the states, and set himself up in the Chinese restaurant business. Old fellow made a nice bundle at that, which he invested in oil and gas wells. A lot of those old guys have lived lives you wouldn't believe - my intended's father was a colonel who got out late, after the sino-vietnamese war, when the reds were cracking down not only on old ARVN, but ethnic Chinese as well. He had two strikes against him, and still managed to get out. The story. He realizes it's time. Tells his wife 'I'll be back soon,' and leaves. Comes back a few hours later with a pistol - he still won't say where or how he got it, but given time and place (Vietnam, 1979) it probably involved some bloodshed. Wife and three daughters go with him to the harbor. He hijacks a fishing boat, gun at the captain's head, and makes for the south china sea. Three days out, USN picks them up. He drops the pistol overboard and pays the captain $100 in gold (five ounces, one per person, the going rate for smugglers at the time). Asked him why he did that. He had a pistol, after all. 'The pistol was to show I wasn't weak; the gold was to show I wasn't a criminal.' Thousands like him made it out. Thousands more didn't.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 30, 2016 01:33 PM (JDh3u)

83 Zombie is too good. Make her play with one eye closed.

Posted by: davidt at July 30, 2016 01:34 PM (mkppl)

84 So let's take that endgame move, and it's blacks turn. How is he going to win? Does he go straight R to H8, hellbent for that pawn? I think he does. White goes RG8, black takes the pawn, king takes the black rook, then black starts moving down pawns. At this point, White King is out of the picture, and all white can do is use his rook to try to stop the black king and 2 connected pawns. Is that possible?

Posted by: Vanceone at July 30, 2016 01:34 PM (IQzhs)

85 Was chess a team sport in 1508? Posted by: rickl It went full contact for a while in the mid 17th century.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 01:35 PM (UPYhp)

86 It'll also analyze your game for you which, if you're like me, is very embarrassing. Good learning tool, but embarrassing. Also humiliating. Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 06:33 PM (0mRoj) Chess and golf are both two sports about ermbarassment and humiliation- especially if you are playing with someone who has any kind of skill and experience with the game. The difference between novice players and intermediary seems like a vast gulf across which the novice can never cross. And both teach you to do things in ways you do not usually do them.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 01:36 PM (3ZoRf)

87 ermbarassment=embarrassment. Auto-cucumber, you fickle mistress.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 01:37 PM (3ZoRf)

88 Chess and golf are both two sports about ermbarassment and humiliation- especially if you are playing with someone who has any kind of skill and experience with the game. The difference between novice players and intermediary seems like a vast gulf across which the novice can never cross. And both teach you to do things in ways you do not usually do them. Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 06:36 PM (3ZoRf) True enough I suppose. I suck at golf too. If I can get a piece of the ball I can hit it pretty hard, but rarely - and I mean rarely - do I get a piece of it.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:38 PM (0mRoj)

89 It just dawned on us why so many cars are shuffling around each evening, either delivering dinners, or delivering humans to dining spots. Al - co - hol. We're shitfaced, and can't figure how it happened. And we're hungry. Pizza? Thai? BBQ? Dog?

Posted by: the littl shyning man at July 30, 2016 01:39 PM (gzBkl)

90 By the way, has anyone ever successfully emailed NaCly Dog? I tried emailing him twice and got permanent delivery failure messages each time.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:40 PM (0mRoj)

91 81 That's an awful lot of chess players. Was chess a team sport in 1508?
Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 06:32 PM (sdi6R)


No, probably many of those standing around the board are groupies.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:40 PM (OxsRO)

92 And we're hungry. Pizza? Thai? BBQ? Dog? Posted by: the littl shyning man Isn't it obvious? BBQ dog.

Posted by: TFG at July 30, 2016 01:41 PM (UPYhp)

93 Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 06:40 PM (0mRoj) Yes; I have. Let me see what I have in the g mail account and send it to your e-mail shortly.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 01:41 PM (HXQyP)

94 True enough I suppose. I suck at golf too. If I can get a piece of the ball I can hit it pretty hard, but rarely - and I mean rarely - do I get a piece of it. Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 06:38 PM (0mRoj) Lol. I played with a buddy in college who took it as his personal mission to teach me the game. I did not do badly (my shots were usually straight and high, but distance per shot was a problem.) At the driving range I would be lucky to get over 200 while my buddy (who was all state in high school) was smacking them into the woods. Chess and golf are also similar in that someone who is good, makes it look so easy that it adds just that extra hint of humiliation into it- especially if you are fiercely competitive.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 01:43 PM (3ZoRf)

95 The rules, as near as I can tell, are the same as medieval chess with some addition of some funky pieces, the Courier, the Sage, and the Jester.

Oooh, so like StarCraft expansions!

Posted by: Valkyrie, prepared at July 30, 2016 01:44 PM (rLrEx)

96 Ermagerd, therts ermbarassing.

Posted by: Gersberms at July 30, 2016 01:44 PM (3v713)

97 At this point, White King is out of the picture, and all white can do is use his rook to try to stop the black king and 2 connected pawns. Is that possible?

Posted by: Vanceone at July 30, 2016 06:34 PM (IQzhs)


I am about to post the solutions, and I have a bit of discussion about this. Also, see my comment to zombie at #38.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:44 PM (OxsRO)

98 The upside is that both force you to think and move in different ways than normal. It changes how you approach problems- which is usually a very good thing, from a problem solving standpoint.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 01:45 PM (3ZoRf)

99 Most tournament chess sets have a 3.75" king, and the boards have squares that are 2.25" wide. If you're in the market for chess equipment, the House of Staunton has some beautiful hand crafted sets.

Posted by: GolfBoy at July 30, 2016 01:45 PM (moQX0)

100 Plus, humility is good for the soul and keeps you from being a jackass.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 01:46 PM (3ZoRf)

101 So I was just testing the de-cocker on a CZ-50 with a balsa wood rod to make sure that the firing pin lock was working. So one standard trigger pull and the rod jumped. Then I tried the de-cocker and the rod didn't jump. Yay! I cocked the hammer back one more time, and the rear half of the firing pin fell onto the floor. Ouch. $22 later and a new FP is on the way. Well, the darned thing IS 47 years old.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale-Skeet Surfer at July 30, 2016 01:46 PM (hVdx9)

102 94 Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 06:40 PM (0mRoj) Yes; I have. Let me see what I have in the g mail account and send it to your e-mail shortly. Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 06:41 PM (HXQyP) Thanks Fen. I was using his sooper-secret encrypted email addy that he posted, and I can't get anything through.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:48 PM (0mRoj)

103 Solutions are up.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:49 PM (OxsRO)

104 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 06:41 PM (HXQyP) I have sent it, insomniac. I say "I have" but it's fenelonspouse who has written to him.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 01:49 PM (HXQyP)

105 Thanks Fen. I was using his sooper-secret encrypted email addy that he posted, and I can't get anything through. Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 06:48 PM (0mRoj) Well, at least he has better security than Hillary! *rimshot*

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 01:50 PM (3ZoRf)

106 If you're in the market for chess equipment, the House of Staunton has some beautiful hand crafted sets.
Posted by: GolfBoy at July 30, 2016 06:45 PM (moQX0)


...for which it will cost you heap big wampum, as Elizabeth Warren would say.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 01:51 PM (OxsRO)

107 OM that was a fascinating article, answered my question some on can chess paintings boards be set up as shown.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 01:51 PM (bksJQ)

108 101 Plus, humility is good for the soul and keeps you from being a jackass. Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 06:46 PM (3ZoRf) Neither snow nor rain nor dark of night can keep me from being a jackass.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:52 PM (0mRoj)

109 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 06:50 PM (3ZoRf) I would MUCH prefer Nacly as President but he wouldn't be a "historic first". :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 01:52 PM (HXQyP)

110 105 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 06:41 PM (HXQyP) I have sent it, insomniac. I say "I have" but it's fenelonspouse who has written to him. Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 06:49 PM (HXQyP) Thanks!

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:52 PM (0mRoj)

111 have to take a train trip with the kid to Chicago then onwards to Wisconsin tomorrow evening, overnight, half the next day. i figure it'll be easier than plane travel and certainly cheaper. then do it all over again on Wednesday to come back.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 30, 2016 01:54 PM (U0lQa)

112 106 Thanks Fen. I was using his sooper-secret encrypted email addy that he posted, and I can't get anything through. Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 06:48 PM (0mRoj) Well, at least he has better security than Hillary! *rimshot* Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 06:50 PM (3ZoRf) Who doesn't?

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 01:56 PM (0mRoj)

113 does the tsa mess around on Amtrak? seem to recall they don't have all that crap

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 30, 2016 01:58 PM (U0lQa)

114 OK, I think I got the first three problems.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 01:59 PM (sdi6R)

115 The women in the painting are great beauties by medieval standards since their faces aren't hideously scarred by small pox.
 

Posted by: [/i] [/u] [/s] [/b]An Observation at July 30, 2016 02:01 PM (PxqTD)

116 >>>Chess Considered Harmful It's worse than bedbugs. It killed Paul Morphy.

Posted by: Edgar Allen Poe at July 30, 2016 02:02 PM (rDxLs)

117 That lady has "man hands"...better check for an adams apple.

Posted by: BignJames at July 30, 2016 02:02 PM (9RGU3)

118 12 x 8 board??? *bzzzt*

Posted by: Deep Blue at July 30, 2016 02:03 PM (rDxLs)

119 They are identifying those Bangladesh terrorists who hacked people to death including 3 American students. One of the dead terrorists, Shazad Rouf, was an American MBA student, 24 or 26. He disappeared a year ago, obviously went underground. His family condemns his actions but rails against those who brainwash youth. It seems none of these murderers were poor, uneducated, or under class. But they remind me of the class of people who should know better who join these cults, whether communism, Shining Path, Monteneiros, ISIS and its ilk. I have no use for them. They are attracted to these cults bc they have a personality flaw.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 02:04 PM (iQIUe)

120 116 The women in the painting are great beauties by medieval standards since their faces aren't hideously scarred by small pox. Posted by: An Observation at July 30, 2016 07:01 PM (PxqTD) That's the good news. The bad news is all these people have bubonic plague.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:04 PM (3ZoRf)

121 His family condemns his actions but rails against those who brainwash youth. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! Imams?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 02:06 PM (UPYhp)

122 It seems none of these murderers were poor, uneducated, or under class. But they remind me of the class of people who should know better who join these cults, whether communism, Shining Path, Monteneiros, ISIS and its ilk. I have no use for them. They are attracted to these cults bc they have a personality flaw. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 07:04 PM (iQIUe) I agree it is a flaw, but it is one common to the human animal. They are looking to be part of something. People fill that with a lot of things. Love of country. Love of God. Love of the military. Love of the land (farmers, but also encompass envirowackos.) Modern society is great at making what someone described as "Hollow men." These kids needed something to fill their lives. To make them a part of something greater. They chose poorly in the object of trying to bring meaning to their lives. That choice made them evil.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:08 PM (3ZoRf)

123 There are other things of course, other people fill their lives by going to work, or having and raising kids the best damn way they know how. What I am saying is, even in this culture of vacuity, these kids had choices. The CHOSE to be evil. No one brainwashed them against their will.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:11 PM (3ZoRf)

124 I have no use for them. They are attracted to these cults bc they have a personality flaw. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 07:04 PM (iQIUe) Yup...Like Jim Jones and the People's Temple. A few ghetto mommas trying to get out of poverty and lots of college educated white folks looking for something to fill their empty souls. They are singing the "Internationale" to gospel teachings. https://archive.org/details/cabemrc_00007

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 30, 2016 02:12 PM (ej1L0)

125 They are attracted to these cults bc they have a personality flaw. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 07: Truth is, chess drove them to it.

Posted by: Edgar Allen Poe at July 30, 2016 02:13 PM (rDxLs)

126 If you didn't say "White mates in 2," I'd just start wandering around the board, advancing my pawns and vaguely trying not to lose. One thing I picked up from playing computer chess is that every move has to have a purpose, either winning pieces, gaining position, or threatening a mate. Because that's what the computer does, and if you waste moves it will beat you.

Posted by: Socratease at July 30, 2016 02:17 PM (2GbWn)

127 That's the good news. The bad news is all these people have bubonic plague. Good response That's funny. However, Lucas Van Leyden lived from 1494-1533. The Bubonic plague was mostly @ 1347. They could have any number of nasty diseases of the time that there weren't any modern treatments, for yet. :^) And IMO, having your upper forehead shaved or scraped under a cap makes most women look unattractive

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 02:18 PM (HXQyP)

128 OK, I looked at the answers and I got the first three problems right. I didn't know what to do in the endgame after Rg8, though. That side variation looks worth exploring. Maybe White has a better chance of stopping the Black pawns if he can get his king over there.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 02:20 PM (sdi6R)

129 and if you waste moves it will beat you.

Like with a stick or belt?

Posted by: Hillary! 2016 at July 30, 2016 02:21 PM (rLrEx)

130 Modern society is great at making what someone described as "Hollow men." These kids needed something to fill their lives. To make them a part of something greater. - Hedonism hasn't worked out all that well.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 30, 2016 02:21 PM (Nwg0u)

131 >>> And IMO, having your upper forehead shaved or scraped under a cap makes most women look unattractive Rule 34.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 02:23 PM (eiFlk)

132 Good response That's funny. However, Lucas Van Leyden lived from 1494-1533. The Bubonic plague was mostly @ 1347. They could have any number of nasty diseases of the time that there weren't any modern treatments, for yet. :^) Posted by: FenelonSpoke The Black Death still made appearances after the big one in the 1340s. Like the big outbreak that wiped out about half of London in 1667(ish). But 1508 was just in time for the Conquistadors to bring syphilis back from the New World.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 02:25 PM (UPYhp)

133 128 That's the good news. The bad news is all these people have bubonic plague. Good response That's funny. However, Lucas Van Leyden lived from 1494-1533. The Bubonic plague was mostly @ 1347. They could have any number of nasty diseases of the time that there weren't any modern treatments, for yet. :^) And IMO, having your upper forehead shaved or scraped under a cap makes most women look unattractive Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 30, 2016 07:18 PM (HXQyP) Actually plague broke out quite a few times. The one you are thinking of was actually the second massive outbreak (there was an earlier one during the Roman emperor Justinian's reign.) The 1347 was the biggest and by far the most widespread, but there were also several outbreaks all the way up to 1959 in China according to the WHO. (While looking this up, I learned something new, the plague outbreak that had been running through china since 1855 reached Hawaii in 1899. The health board there evidently burned down most of Chinatown in order to prevent it spreading.) Heck, plague is still present in rodent populations in the american southwest.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:27 PM (3ZoRf)

134 The Black Death still made appearances after the big one in the 1340s. Like the big outbreak that wiped out about half of London in 1667(ish). But 1508 was just in time for the Conquistadors to bring syphilis back from the New World. Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 07:25 PM (UPYhp) I am pretty sure the book "A journal of the plague year" came from the london outbreak.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:29 PM (3ZoRf)

135 134 Heck, plague is still present in rodent populations in the american southwest. Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 07:27 PM (3ZoRf) So we're about due, then.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 02:33 PM (sdi6R)

136 I agree it is a flaw, but it is one common to the human animal. Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 07:08 PM (3ZoRf) +++++++++++++ Hacking innocent people to death with a machete is not common. One has to be a disgusting immoral person to do what these thugs do.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 02:33 PM (iQIUe)

137 Heck, plague is still present in rodent populations in the american southwest. Posted by: Aetius451AD Not just southwest, but as far north as Montana. There have been large die-offs of prarie dog populations due to the plague.

Posted by: fairweatherbill at July 30, 2016 02:34 PM (2VZEa)

138 Heck, plague is still present in rodent populations in the american southwest. - Like white privileve, you just can't wipe it out.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 30, 2016 02:35 PM (Nwg0u)

139 Why's it "black plague" when it mostly killed a bunch of white people, hmm? And insinuating that "black" is related to disease and death? Pretty damn racist!

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 02:37 PM (0mRoj)

140 Not just southwest, but as far north as Montana. There have been large die-offs of prarie dog populations due to the plague. Posted by: fairweatherbill Noooo... there's nothing wrong with the prairie dogs. Go up and try to pet one. Look how cute they are.

Posted by: y. pestis at July 30, 2016 02:37 PM (UPYhp)

141 The Black Death still made appearances after the big one in the 1340s. Like the big outbreak that wiped out about half of London in 1667(ish). But 1508 was just in time for the Conquistadors to bring syphilis back from the New World. Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 07:25 PM (UPYhp) The syphilis comment is a good point. My prof in college always pointed out that if you look at records you would often find symptoms that did not match up with what we commonly think of as classic symptoms of plague, Yersinia Pestis. She said this told you two things: 1) There were a LOT of diseases active during the entire time period. Some may have been plague, but some may not, and have been attributed to plague. Medieval Europe could be seen as one giant petri dish. 2) Part of the 'Black Legend' about spanish excesses in the new world can probably be instead attributed to diseases that the conquistadors took with them. The populations in Europe had been exposed to a lot of different diseases and those who had a strong reaction to them died off, while those who survived often had weaker reactions or partial resistance. Then you introduce these walking petri dishes to an isolated population with no history of exposure to these diseases, and they take a terrible toll.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:37 PM (3ZoRf)

142 Hacking innocent people to death with a machete is not common. One has to be a disgusting immoral person to do what these thugs do. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 07:33 PM (iQIUe) I am not denying that. But you take that need, introduce it to guys who live in a culture where what they are doing is not considered evil but virtuous, and this is what happens. No one wakes up and thinks they are evil. The worst monsters are those who often believe they are doing good.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:44 PM (3ZoRf)

143 So are we all chessed out? People out having a life or something equally incomprehensible?

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 02:44 PM (0mRoj)

144 People are really coming unglued over the idea of Trump winning. Just had my brother accuse me of "asshole behavior" as he argued that Trump sucks because he can't be more circumspect and respectful when he talks.

Posted by: Czar Peter at July 30, 2016 02:45 PM (JGNQ+)

145 Of course it doesn't help that I hit "refresh" obsessively like a crack-addicted bonobo.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 02:46 PM (0mRoj)

146 Just had my brother accuse me of "asshole behavior" as he argued that Trump sucks because he can't be more circumspect and respectful when he talks. Posted by: Czar Peter So he spent 8 years supporting Bathhouse Barry and he has the nerve to accuse Trump of sucking?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 02:46 PM (UPYhp)

147 And the media is already starting the barrage of "trump cant win because math and demographics" stuff.

Posted by: Czar Peter at July 30, 2016 02:48 PM (JGNQ+)

148 No one wakes up and thinks they are evil. The worst monsters are those who often believe they are doing good. - The Nazis thought they were the good guys doing good just as ISIS and al Queda see themselves. This is why I despair that criminal justice will ever eliminate genocide. They think they are doing good and they think it is impossible that they will be defeated and face the consequences of their acts. The master race so superior that their ultimate victory was inevitable. Allah is ISIS's co-pilot.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 30, 2016 02:53 PM (Nwg0u)

149 Koch PAC is a hollow Wooden Horse. Ryan is demanding the Koch Horse be called an Elephant. Voters will determine if Palin is Cassandra or Hector.

Posted by: conspiracy nut at July 30, 2016 02:53 PM (CRXed)

150 The article about courier chess is fascinating, but I would like to learn more about chess as it was originally played. It was invented in India and spread to the Arab world, which is where the Europeans found it. The original game was played on an 8x8 board. As I understand it, the piece now knows as the queen could move only one square diagonally, and the piece now known as the bishop could move only two squares diagonally. The original game must have been incredibly slow and tedious by modern standards, and it would have used entirely different strategies than we're used to. I can see how the Europeans developed courier chess to spice things up a little.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 02:55 PM (sdi6R)

151 116 The women in the painting are great beauties by medieval standards since their faces aren't hideously scarred by small pox. Posted by: An Observation at July 30, 2016 07:01 PM (PxqTD The lady playing chess has trucker arm by the looks of her giant hand and is obviously a righty.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 02:55 PM (a94gW)

152 The Nazis thought they were the good guys doing good just as ISIS and al Queda see themselves. This is why I despair that criminal justice will ever eliminate genocide. They think they are doing good and they think it is impossible that they will be defeated and face the consequences of their acts. The master race so superior that their ultimate victory was inevitable. Allah is ISIS's co-pilot. Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 30, 2016 07:53 PM (Nwg0u) Pretty much, yeah.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 02:57 PM (3ZoRf)

153 Ref "Issues Raised by Morons Problem #1" (the position where white mates after Q:h7+) That's something that I solved in less than a second. Not because I'm some chess demon. But because of pattern recognition. After you've played/studied enough chess you recognize patterns. In that position I saw the pattern with Whites Q and B on the weak black kingside black squares and knew instantly that the chance of a queen sac mating net was there - if there was a rook handy. Ohh, there it is on the 4th rank! The ability to recognize patterns like that is how you can play speed chess well. Practice, practice, practice!

Posted by: ArthurK at July 30, 2016 02:57 PM (h53OH)

154 OT/
 Wow! Woke up form a nap to one of the heaviest rain storms I've experienced. (I'm in MD-21043).  So much fucking water falling so fucking fast.  Sheets of water are licking my windows.  Lucky the power is still on.

Posted by: Serious Cat at July 30, 2016 02:57 PM (Uy6ri)

155 >>> So are we all chessed out? People out having a life or something equally incomprehensible? Playing blitz in between reading comments.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 02:58 PM (eiFlk)

156 146 Of course it doesn't help that I hit "refresh" obsessively like a crack-addicted bonobo. Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 07:46 PM (0mRoj) Slapping the laptop with your cock is a major symptom.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 02:58 PM (a94gW)

157 Playing blitz in between reading comments. Posted by: fluffy It's all a part of the Moron Lifestyle. Oh wait... I thought you said "playing blitzed." Never mind.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 03:00 PM (UPYhp)

158 >>> The original game must have been incredibly slow and tedious by modern standards, and it would have used entirely different strategies than we're used to. I can see how the Europeans developed courier chess to spice things up a little. Old Indian chess introduced Europeans to the fiancetto, probably tracing to John Cochrane's matches in India in the mid 19th century.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 03:00 PM (eiFlk)

159 Trump sucks because he can't be more circumspect and respectful when he talks. ==== show him a picture of Obama scratching his nose with his middle finger

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 30, 2016 03:00 PM (U0lQa)

160 Oh great. Turkish armed forces have surrounded our base in Turkey.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:01 PM (3ZoRf)

161 155 OT/ Wow! Woke up form a nap to one of the heaviest rain storms I've experienced. (I'm in MD-21043). So much fucking water falling so fucking fast. Sheets of water are licking my windows. Lucky the power is still on. Posted by: Serious Cat at July 30, 2016 07:57 PM (Uy6ri) I had a storm like that on Monday. I left work and stopped at the supermarket. As I was leaving the store, I heard thunder and great big raindrops were starting to fall. Five minutes later I had the windshield wipers going top speed. When I arrived home I spent a full ten minutes sitting in my car in the driveway waiting for the rain to slow down. I felt like I was parked at the bottom of Niagara Falls.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 03:02 PM (sdi6R)

162 161 Oh great. Turkish armed forces have surrounded our base in Turkey. Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 08:01 PM (3ZoRf) They want the nukes.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:03 PM (a94gW)

163 Those faces all seem to be variations on a theme. I bet one guy posed for all of them, including the "ladies".

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at July 30, 2016 03:03 PM (jR7Wy)

164 "So are we all chessed out?" I have to concentrate hard at work all day. I can do the "white mates in one" cause all you have to do is find all the pieces that could put the black King in check. The Black King is on one square and can move to eight squares or less. Usually a lot less. So are those nine or less squares covered after a move? All covered? You found the solution. But "mates in two", or "mates in three" require a lot more concentration. I start feeling like I am at work.

Posted by: conspiracy nut at July 30, 2016 03:04 PM (CRXed)

165 The Nazis thought they were the good guys doing good ==== was an english comedian doing a bit in an SS uniform, talking to another "Hans, do you ever get the feeling that maybe we're the baddies? All black, skulls, lightning bolts..."

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 30, 2016 03:04 PM (U0lQa)

166 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (1967) on TMC

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:04 PM (bksJQ)

167 "They want the nukes." Obama wants them to have them and has probably already put the technical drawing on Hillary's server.

Posted by: conspiracy nut at July 30, 2016 03:06 PM (CRXed)

168 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (1967)

Why the date specified? They aren't making a new one with an all-woman cast, are they?

Posted by: the Horror at July 30, 2016 03:07 PM (rLrEx)

169 was an english comedian doing a bit in an SS uniform, talking to another "Hans, do you ever get the feeling that maybe we're the baddies? All black, skulls, lightning bolts..." Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich That Mitchell and Webb Look. https://youtu.be/ToKcmnrE5oY

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 03:08 PM (UPYhp)

170 168 "They want the nukes." Obama wants them to have them and has probably already put the technical drawing on Hillary's server. Posted by: conspiracy nut at July 30, 2016 08:06 PM (CRXed) How bad has it gotten that this actually sounds like the most logical explanation and I can't dismiss it out of hand?

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 03:08 PM (sdi6R)

171 Everybody is watching the genius jump 25000 feet into a net live on Fox right now.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:08 PM (a94gW)

172 144 So are we all chessed out? People out having a life or something equally incomprehensible?

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 07:44 PM (0mRoj)


Unpossible!

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:08 PM (OxsRO)

173 38 Zombie, dude, you need to help me out here: Here is where the endgame is from: https://goo.gl/AxFPiO I'm not altogether happy with their solution. I like the technique, but I don't think the solution is airtight, particularly with the resource 3...Rc5+, a line you can see in the problem solution Is it the general idea for white to prevent Black from trading his rook for the advanced pawn, leaving White with a very problematic KR vs. KPP (connected) endgame? Posted by: OregonMuse 47 Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 05:38 PM (jBuUi) I'm not following the endgame solution - if white moves Rg8 he loses his rook, which defeats the stated purpose of the problem. Posted by: Insomniac Sorry, I stepped away for a while. I'll answer both your questions. First of all, although I had the right idea, my solution was too simplistic because I didn't pay close enough attention to the problem, thinking it must be an easy one. In fact, it's quite sophisticated upon closer inspection. Insomniac: The white pawns are moving forward, so when white moves his rook to g8, the pawn on h7 is protecting it. If black moves his rook and takes the white rook Rxg8, then the white pawn can recapture hxg8 - - and it also thereby automatically promotes to a queen as well. So the purpose of white moving the rook to g8 is to shield the square h8 from the black rook, preventing him from capturing the pawn if it promoted there. OregonMuse: The solution at the link you gave indeed fully correct. My solution that I gave is "correct" as well, but it's only one of the key lines. In fact, my line is considered so "trivial" by the problem composer that he doesn't even give it as part of the official solution -- it's merely a "side line." Here's the full explanation in plain English: What I said to Insomniac is the basic point: White must queen the pawn to win. In fact, if white allowed black to trade his rook for the pawn, then the resulting endgame may very well even be LOST for white! I haven't analyzed it thoroughly, but in many instances the two connected passed pawns that black has are enough to actually win, because the lone rook can't stop them if the king is too far away -- which in this case it is. So white MUST promote the pawn if he is to win. But black is clever, and he sees the solution I gave already -- if he starts checking the white king immediately, eventually the white rook will interpose and pin the black rook to the black king. So black takes a different strategy -- he moves 1. ... Rc1! in an attempt to get behind the white king. If white then foolishly promoted the pawn, the black goes 2. ... Rh1+! and trades his rook for the promoted queen, leaving an endgame of white R vs. two black Ps -- which is very tricky, but I think black would draw or maybe even win that position. So white DOESN't promote the pawn -- instead, he checks the black king, forcing it to move forward, and then white brings his own king one square closer to the rook, so that THEN, white is indeed threatening to promote the pawn, because white can interpose the rook on h4 if black moves to the h-file. So, black must return to c8 to stop the pawn once again, and once again white stops him with Rg8, and then once again black tries to get BEHIND the white king, and the whole process repeats except for one key difference-- all the pieces are one square further toward the edge at the first rank. In this manner white ooonches black's king all the way to the edge where he FINALLY runs out of space, and white can FINALLY pin the black rook to the black king, allowing white to promote the pawn. Then the endgame is white Q vs. 2 Ps, but the Q is more more powerful than the rook would have been and in this exact position he DOES have enough time and checks to win. It's sneaky -- a pretty sophisticated endgame, one that I enjoy, but perhaps too advanced for most of the readers here, because most people (even me) could not easily see the answer at all.

Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 03:11 PM (jBuUi)

174 169 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (1967) Why the date specified? They aren't making a new one with an all-woman cast, are they? Posted by: the Horror at July 30, 2016 08:07 PM (rLrEx) Yes it is in pre production. Looking at 2018 or 2109 release date.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:11 PM (a94gW)

175 Instead, White should go all in with 1.Qxh7+. Black has to take the queen:' Jean's Rule: When doing chess problem, always look to sacrifice your Queen; its part of the psychology of writing Chess problems. Then look for discovered check, entrapped Kings, pawn mates, and weird draws.

Posted by: Jean at July 30, 2016 03:11 PM (ngn8T)

176 If I had internet service I'd play chess.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:12 PM (a94gW)

177 129 OK, I looked at the answers and I got the first three problems right. I didn't know what to do in the endgame after Rg8, though. That side variation looks worth exploring. Maybe White has a better chance of stopping the Black pawns if he can get his king over there.
Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 07:20 PM (sdi6R)


Right, and that's what I don't understand about the 3...Rc5+ line. If it's now suddenly OK for White to swap his queened pawn for the rook, then why waste all of that time in the main lines shuffling back and fourth between g8 and checking to stop the skewer. Let Black have the skewer and take it from there in the reduced endgame.

Trouble is, that KR vs. KPP ending looks awfully problematic for White, especially since the two pawns are connected.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:12 PM (OxsRO)

178 The Nazis thought they were the good guys doing good No they thought they were the superior people eliminating the defective people who were the cause of any of their failures.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:13 PM (MNgU2)

179 Jean's Rule: When doing chess problem, always look to sacrifice your Queen; its part of the psychology of writing Chess problems.

Then look for discovered check, entrapped Kings, pawn mates, and weird draws.

Posted by: Jean at July 30, 2016 08:11 PM (ngn8T)


That's not bad advice.

I'm going to have to look for a problem where the queen sac fails on the 8th move, so you get totally messed up.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:14 PM (OxsRO)

180 Whoever I post a movie title I try to put the date, sometimes there are different movies of same title, and just to inform when it was made for reference.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:14 PM (bksJQ)

181 No they thought they were the superior people eliminating the defective people who were the cause of any of their failures. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:13 PM (MNgU2) Well, for given values of 'good' they thought they were morally virtuous.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:15 PM (3ZoRf)

182 The Good The Bad and the Ugly being remade. Another entry on the: "Films that were never made" list.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:16 PM (3ZoRf)

183 Yay!  A puzzle I was able to figure out without having a migraine!

...seriously, I suck at chess.  And don't really have the time to devote to getting better, sadly...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, That Guy at July 30, 2016 03:16 PM (vyqqu)

184 https://is.gd/b2zGX3 hahaha

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 30, 2016 03:17 PM (U0lQa)

185 Know what would help?  Speaking English.  Or including pictures of what your talking about.

1...Kxh7

The rest is mopping up:

2.Rh4+ Kg8
3.Rh8#

I think this says the king is going to h7.. where that is I have no idea.  R is for rook?

Posted by: Deathknyte at July 30, 2016 03:18 PM (vxh35)

186 In this manner white ooonches black's king all the way to the edge where he FINALLY runs out of space, and white can FINALLY pin the black rook to the black king, allowing white to promote the pawn.
Then the endgame is white Q vs. 2 Ps, but the Q is more more powerful than the rook would have been and in this exact position he DOES have enough time and checks to win.
It's sneaky -- a pretty sophisticated endgame, one that I enjoy, but perhaps too advanced for most of the readers here, because most people (even me) could not easily see the answer at all.

Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 08:11 PM (jBuUi)


Right, I understand all of this. What I don't understand is the 3...Rc5+ variation that allows a simplification to a KR vs. KPP endgame. Not an easy endgame for White, and as you say, it may very well be a won endgame for Black. So doesn't that sort of cook the problem?

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:19 PM (OxsRO)

187 You know, another miscellaneous/random post at around 7 or 8 on Saturday might not be such a bad idea.

Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 03:19 PM (bMG0w)

188 Turkish police are barricading the entrance to Incirlik Air Force Base. Rumors of a second coup attempt.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 03:20 PM (MeDKr)

189 I am getting much better at chess, should bump up a level on the app, and still haven't changed the one I've been using.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:20 PM (bksJQ)

190 189 Turkish police are barricading the entrance to Incirlik Air Force Base. Rumors of a second coup attempt. Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 08:20 PM (MeDKr) Well, the first 'coup' worked so well for Erdogan the first time, why not try it again?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:21 PM (3ZoRf)

191 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly pretty much describes the last three first ladies. You figure out which is which.

Posted by: freaked at July 30, 2016 03:21 PM (BO/km)

192 About the plague.When it first hit Europe it was Bubonic. Spread by flea bites. But then it mutated. It became pneumonic. Spread by coughing, sneezing. It then became deadlier and worse. And started killing people who had missed the Bubonic infection.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 03:21 PM (DrCtv)

193 175 169 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (1967)
Posted by: the Horror at July 30, 2016 08:07 PM (rLrEx)

Yes it is in pre production. Looking at 2018 or 2109 release date.
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 08:11 PM (a94gW)


No. Just. No.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:21 PM (OxsRO)

194 192 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly pretty much describes the last three first ladies. You figure out which is which. Posted by: freaked at July 30, 2016 08:21 PM (BO/km) You know, I just see a tie for the bad and the ugly.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:22 PM (3ZoRf)

195 Mostly it's been going from this thread to the ONT

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:23 PM (bksJQ)

196 169 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (1967) --- I will say that the preview for the remake of The Magnificent Seven looks pretty spiffy. Since it's a remake of a re-imagining of The Seven Samurai , I don't feel the boiling anger I did at the preview for the blasphemous remake of Ben-Hur. And while the cast is diverse, I didn't get that PC Diversity vibe. It's got Denzel because Denzel is awesome. I certainly did notice all the Chinese money behind Hollywood films. HuaHua Media partnered with Paramount studios for the new Star Trek, and in previews of sciffy stories it seems like there's a Chinese character in every crew. They have an active space program, yes, but it feels...hegemonistic. make your own damn SF movies!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at July 30, 2016 03:23 PM (jR7Wy)

197 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly pretty much describes the last three first ladies. You figure out which is which. Posted by: freaked Maybe "The Good, The Bad and The Wookie"?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 03:23 PM (UPYhp)

198 Well, the first 'coup' worked so well for Erdogan the first time, why not try it again? Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 08:21 PM (3ZoRf) Maybe this time they get the bastard....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 30, 2016 03:24 PM (ej1L0)

199 Ugly ain't just on the outside.

Posted by: freaked at July 30, 2016 03:24 PM (BO/km)

200 freaked that's funny

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:24 PM (bksJQ)

201 Fox has a new TV series coming out called Pitch. More girl power fantasy crap. ( on physical level) . Female pitcher in the Majors. Sheesh.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:24 PM (MNgU2)

202 Watch This Woman Use A Raw Steak To Bang Out The Word Equality In Morse Code On The Hood Of Her Car https://goo.gl/5zuXIK

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 03:25 PM (iQIUe)

203 No. Just. No. It's going to have electric guitar and super slow motion. And Matt Damon.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 03:26 PM (qUNWi)

204 Yes it is in pre production. Looking at 2018 or 2109 release date.
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 08:11 PM (a94gW)


Remake not showing up on imdb.com. Perhaps that's a good thing.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:26 PM (OxsRO)

205 202 Fox has a new TV series coming out called Pitch. More girl power fantasy crap. ( on physical level) . Female pitcher in the Majors. Sheesh. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:24 PM (MNgU2) Hmmm. This seems flawed.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:26 PM (3ZoRf)

206 Obviously, Lucas van Leyden had serious issues w/hands. OMG Lucas! WTF! Not just the "double hand" of the lady chess player but EVERY single hand you portrayed is the suff of NIGHTMARES!

Posted by: Deety at July 30, 2016 03:26 PM (xPWMR)

207 Maybe this time they get the bastard.... Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 30, 2016 08:24 PM (ej1L0) The 'problematic' part of this right now is the 7,000 heavily armed Turkish 'police' that are blockading, and surrounding our base.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 03:27 PM (MeDKr)

208 Ever since a beer has been using Ectacy in Gold ive been hooked listening to it every way its on You Tube.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:27 PM (bksJQ)

209 When I told my wife that there was going to be an all female remake of "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" she said what the hell is this world coming to. Somebody please tell me where they are going to find a female Eli Wallach, a female Lee Van Cleef and most importantly, a female Clint Eastwood.

Posted by: Old Blue at July 30, 2016 03:28 PM (9iR5/)

210 The 'problematic' part of this right now is the 7,000 heavily armed Turkish 'police' that are blockading, and surrounding our base. Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 08:27 PM (MeDKr) Hopefully if it is another coup, the rebels will actually use their weapons. Like Tuco said....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 30, 2016 03:30 PM (ej1L0)

211 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 08:15 PM (3ZoRf) Respectfully disagree. Nazism had a lot of black magic adherents in its leadership, as well as hedonism . They dismissed morals and replaced them with might makes right.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:30 PM (MNgU2)

212 The Nazis thought they were the good guys doing good

No they thought they were the superior people eliminating the defective people who were the cause of any of their failures.


Once upon a time in college, I took a course on Nazi era cinema.  One of the things I found interesting is that once you got past cultural quirks and the obvious identifiers, you could switch names and languages on several of them and it could have been American soldiers or British soldiers rather than German soldiers in some of them.

Others were...more obvious what they were about.  (One interesting thing was seeing the 1940 Jew Suss...which I only recently learned was a pro-Nazi remake of a 1934 film that was very pro-Jewish.  So yeah, the "remake/reboot to push a POV" isn't what you call new.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil, That Guy at July 30, 2016 03:30 PM (vyqqu)

213 194 175 169 The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (1967) Posted by: the Horror at July 30, 2016 08:07 PM (rLrEx) Yes it is in pre production. Looking at 2018 or 2109 release date. Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 08:11 PM (a94gW) No. Just. No. Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 08:21 PM (OxsRO Thankfully everything you can think of is in the pre production stage in Hollywood. It's like a couple saying we ate thinking of having a baby. So anybody know the skinny on the genius jumping into a net from 25000 feet? It's going down right now. Please keep us/me updated. Thanks

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:31 PM (a94gW)

214 Well, it's all just a misunderstanding, apparently. Turkey is just carrying out a peaceful, and heavily armed 'safety inspection' of the airbase.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 03:31 PM (MeDKr)

215 >>> Obviously, Lucas van Leyden had serious issues w/hands. They got doll hands. Dull, lifeless hands that retract way up in their sleeve when they lose a piece.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 03:32 PM (eiFlk)

216 The base could be surrounded on the excuse that the coup was being pressured from outside forces.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:33 PM (bksJQ)

217 212 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 08:15 PM (3ZoRf) Respectfully disagree. Nazism had a lot of black magic adherents in its leadership, as well as hedonism . They dismissed morals and replaced them with might makes right. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:30 PM (MNgU2 They were a cult of bull pedophiles.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:33 PM (a94gW)

218 Respectfully disagree. Nazism had a lot of black magic adherents in its leadership, as well as hedonism . They dismissed morals and replaced them with might makes right. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:30 PM (MNgU2) Which for them made them good, because they were strong. And honestly, pre-Christianity and western culture, was pretty much the historical norm for almost all cultures everywhere.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:33 PM (3ZoRf)

219 I could see a female Clint or Lee (theoretically) but NO WAY to top or "revisit" Eli Wallach's performance. They'll probably have to CGI him in or something a la Natalie/Nat King Cole singing Unforgettable in the '90's.

Posted by: Deety at July 30, 2016 03:33 PM (xPWMR)

220 186 Know what would help? Speaking English. Or including pictures of what your talking about.
1...Kxh7
The rest is mopping up:
2.Rh4+ Kg8
3.Rh8#
I think this says the king is going to h7.. where that is I have no idea. R is for rook?
Posted by: Deathknyte at July 30, 2016 08:18 PM (vxh35)


If I spelled it all out in English, it would take me literally all day to put to together the chess thread. I'm going to tell you something and I may sound like a dick, and if so, I apologize in advance:

You need to familiarize yourself with algebraic notation. It's a comparatively simple system of notation that is used world-wide, and which greatly facilitates communicating information about chess. It answers all of your questions. A very good primer on algebraic is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation_%28chess%29

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:34 PM (OxsRO)

221 And it still is the norm for Islam.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:34 PM (3ZoRf)

222 202 Fox has a new TV series coming out called Pitch. More girl power fantasy crap. ( on physical level) . Female pitcher in the Majors. Sheesh. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:24 PM (MNgU2) Sounds like Fox has jumped the shark. I don't regret cutting the cable in 2012.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 03:34 PM (sdi6R)

223 Right, I understand all of this. What I don't understand is the 3...Rc5+ variation that allows a simplification to a KR vs. KPP endgame. Not an easy endgame for White, and as you say, it may very well be a won endgame for Black. So doesn't that sort of cook the problem? Posted by: OregonMuse Ahhhh, NOW I see what is confusing you. Yes, in this one line that you are talking about... 1. Rg8 Rc1! 2. Rg4+! Ka3! 3. Kh5! Rc5+ 4. Kh4 Rc8 5. Rg8 Rc4+ 6. Kg3 Rc3+ 7. Kf2 Rc2+ 8. Ke3 Rh2 9. h8=Q Rxh8 10. Rxh8 ...black does indeed successfully trade his rook for white's pawn, leaving us with the dreaded white R vs. 2Ps for black. HOWEVER, in order to achieve this, black had to do a LOT of chasing of the white king, and while he was successful in chasing white's king AWAY from defending the white pawn, in so doing he chased white kings TOWARD black's own pawns. So that in the final position at the end of the line given above, white's king is now six squares closer to the black pawns' destination square. And THAT detail -- the closeness of the white king in this line -- that makes all the difference. I haven't analyzed that position in detail, but I imagine that the white king is JUST BARELY close enough to stop black's pawns. These types of R vs 2 passed pawns endgames are extremely delicate and highly sensitive to king position. If the white king is TOO FAR away, then black actually wins because he can queen one of his pawns. If the white king is SORTA CLOSE enough, it can be a draw as white can get into a situation where he is forced to give a perpetual check to black's king, and black has nothing better than to allow it. But in some situations where white's king is CLOSE ENOUGH to get either UNDERNEATH black's pawns or perhaps PINION black's king against the a-file on the edge, then white can manage to salvage a win. I presume that the author looked at that final R vs 2Ps position and calculated that by OME TEMPO white can just barely win. But that analysis is beyond the scope of this comment!

Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 03:34 PM (jBuUi)

224 Maybe "The Good, The Bad and The Wookie"?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 08:23 PM (UPYhp)



When I first read that I saw it as "The Good, The Bad, and The Workers" and thought it was a Hillary propaganda flick!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at July 30, 2016 03:36 PM (wYnyS)

225 Posted by: Brother Cavil, That Guy at July 30, 2016 08:30 PM (vyqqu) Soldiers no matter what country they represent or in what time period , all fight ultimately for one reason in the moment. They fight for the their fellow soldier next to them. That's why you can interchange the fighting grunts.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:37 PM (MNgU2)

226 And it still is the norm for Islam.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 08:34 PM (3ZoRf)



We just need to broaden our cultural horizons...


teaching our children sharia law as part of Common Core is a good start!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at July 30, 2016 03:38 PM (wYnyS)

227 Is San Diego's pitching that bad that they would be willing to let a girl try out for them?

Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 03:38 PM (bMG0w)

228 the guy's going to jump out of the plane in a few minutes. anything you say, chummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm p.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 03:40 PM (WTSFk)

229 hey, just kidding. it might work!

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 03:40 PM (WTSFk)

230 the guy's going to jump out of the plane in a few minutes. contrary to the hype, I'm assuming he has some kind of emergency parachute?

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 03:42 PM (MeDKr)

231 I have no desire to see someone die.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 03:42 PM (qUNWi)

232 I presume that the author looked at that final R vs 2Ps position and calculated that by OME TEMPO white can just barely win. But that analysis is beyond the scope of this comment!

Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 08:34 PM (jBuUi)


OK, thanks, now I see. Holy crap. There's *no way* I'm going to win a KR vs. KPP endgame against against a reasonably competent opponent.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:42 PM (OxsRO)

233 Glad you reminded me, wasn't going to watch a hour of hype.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:43 PM (bksJQ)

234 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 08:33 PM (3ZoRf) If I accepted that then I'd have to accept that any common criminal can just redefine the definition of good. Do you feel the same way about Stalin and the communists? Do you think they also believed they were doing good? To clarify I'm not talking about the low level grunt who has been brainwashed and lied to.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:43 PM (MNgU2)

235 no parachute, no flying suit either.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 03:43 PM (WTSFk)

236 Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 08:43 PM (WTSFk) He's wearing a parachute.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:44 PM (MNgU2)

237 225 Maybe "The Good, The Bad and The Wookie"?
Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 08:23 PM (UPYhp)

When I first read that I saw it as "The Good, The Bad, and The Workers" and thought it was a Hillary propaganda flick!

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 30, 2016 08:36 PM (wYnyS)


Consider yourself lucky. I first read it as "The Good, The Bad and The Nookie" and thought oh no, a porno.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:44 PM (OxsRO)

238 Maybe jump out of a plane and caught by another plane.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:45 PM (bksJQ)

239 Is this suicide attempt online somewhere?

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 03:45 PM (sdi6R)

240 it's live on fox.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 03:46 PM (WTSFk)

241 Jumping out of a plane without a parachute has been done at least once, twice I think.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:46 PM (bksJQ)

242 It's on tape delay so you won't see a splat live. Also they have lifted the requirement for him to wear a chute. He's taking it off. I think that the requirement was fake so they could have him take it off.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:48 PM (MNgU2)

243 OK, thanks, now I see. Holy crap. There's *no way* I'm going to win a KR vs. KPP endgame against against a reasonably competent opponent. Posted by: OregonMuse Even I still have not figured out a guaranteed way to win that position. It's one of those "shuffle pieces around for hours trying to figure it out"-type positions. I wager than even many Grandmasters would whiff that endgame and allow black to draw or win, especially if they were short on time, as they often are in endgames. However, note that there are now something called "six-piece tablebases" which have the correct winning lines of every possible legal chess position in which there are six or fewer pieces on the board. So that this position, which has five pieces, is in the "tablebase," so that most computer chess programs can give you the correct winning line in a nanosecond, because the position is already in the program's database and all it has to do it regurgitate what has already been calculated.

Posted by: zombie at July 30, 2016 03:49 PM (jBuUi)

244 Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 08:46 PM (bksJQ) Yes but someone handed the jumper a chute in flight. This guy is going to land in a net.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:49 PM (MNgU2)

245 If I accepted that then I'd have to accept that any common criminal can just redefine the definition of good. Do you feel the same way about Stalin and the communists? Do you think they also believed they were doing good? To clarify I'm not talking about the low level grunt who has been brainwashed and lied to. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:43 PM (MNgU2) Put simply, yes. Most people define good to mean what is good for them, in a vacuum. It is culture that puts guard rails and guides people to altruism- in a cultural sense. Stalin certainly thought of the formula: what is good for me is good. He even more than Hitler was focused on his own personal power, although he, like most socialist dictators probably lied to himself and said that accumulating all his wealth and power was better for everyone while his people starved or were being purged. It IS complicated, though. Stalin, I would argue was much more of a classic psychopath than even Hitler, so classic ideas of whether someone thinks of themselves as good and evil might not apply.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:49 PM (3ZoRf)

246 241 it's live on fox. Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 08:46 PM (WTSFk To be fair, it is on a delay. It has to be rigged. He has a safety parachute if he goes way off course. They will spin it some how.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 03:50 PM (a94gW)

247 If I accepted that then I'd have to accept that any common criminal can just redefine the definition of good. Do you feel the same way about Stalin and the communists? Do you think they also believed they were doing good? To clarify I'm not talking about the low level grunt who has been brainwashed and lied to. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:43 PM (MNgU2) Yup...the Nazi's believed the old order, Christianity, Judaism, Democracy et al were decadent and rotten and false and they set out a new agenda based upon their own made up racist and national belief system. They definitely wanted to replace the "right" and "wrong" of normal society with their own "right" and "wrong". Read "The Theory and Practice of Hell" by Eugene Kogan.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 30, 2016 03:50 PM (ej1L0)

248 his plan is to land on a giant net. provided by acme net co.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 03:50 PM (WTSFk)

249 I don't have TV, which is why I asked for a link online.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 03:51 PM (sdi6R)

250 At least he didn't decide to commit suicide by shooting up a bunch of other people first and then have the cops take him out.

Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 03:51 PM (bMG0w)

251 his plan is to land on a giant net. provided by acme net co.

Slightly used, with a coyote-shaped hole in it.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, That Guy at July 30, 2016 03:51 PM (vyqqu)

252 Note, I am leaving God out of the argument, which leaves a certain vacuum. But I prefer to argue that way because God often becomes a trump card to explain good and Satan becomes a trump card to explain evil.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:51 PM (3ZoRf)

253 The original game must have been incredibly slow and tedious by modern standards, and it would have used entirely different strategies than we're used to. I can see how the Europeans developed courier chess to spice things up a little.
Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 07:55 PM (sdi6R)


You are correct, sir. Medieval chess was a very slow game and why it turned into modern chess was because the moves of the bishop and the queen, hitherto very weak pieces, were given lots more power. Chess became very fast and very aggressive, and players could start mixing it up very quickly instead of spending 20-25 moves setting up their pieces in preferred configurations without contact with each other.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:52 PM (OxsRO)

254 What were they going to do, get sky cops to go make him put the chute On? I mean so confident he is going to live, unlike the times I watched Evil Kenival

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:52 PM (bksJQ)

255 Ah, there's my power fluctuation! Wouldn't be HoCo without a minor outage every time it rains.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at July 30, 2016 03:52 PM (jR7Wy)

256 251 At least he didn't decide to commit suicide by shooting up a bunch of other people first and then have the cops take him out. Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 08:51 PM (bMG0w) Like someone said yesterday- he'll be slowed down by the gigantic pair of balls he is carrying around.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 03:53 PM (3ZoRf)

257 Let me know if this format, where I don't tell you the specific goal of the problem, is good, bad, meh, or etc.

How about putting the goal underneath the puzzle as a hint? Best of both worlds. People that want the goal can get it, but it isn't spoiled for those that want to try without the direction.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 03:53 PM (R+30W)

258 Still reading articals on midieval chess

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:54 PM (bksJQ)

259 Hope the guys with him remember to employ their chutes

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:55 PM (bksJQ)

260 He won't be the first to land without a chute. I believe there have been a few instances where a chute failed and the jumper survived.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:56 PM (MNgU2)

261 188 You know, another miscellaneous/random post at around 7 or 8 on Saturday might not be such a bad idea.

Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 08:19 PM (bMG0w)


No, because what this blog desperately needs is more 6-hour chess threads.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 03:56 PM (OxsRO)

262 254 spending 20-25 moves setting up their pieces in preferred configurations without contact with each other. Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 08:52 PM (OxsRO) The original game was a board game version of war, and the opposing armies leaving camp (the starting position) and arraying for battle must have been a part of it. I'm still intrigued by it.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 03:56 PM (sdi6R)

263 I'm thinking more so that the chess thread isn't taken over because its been up for 6 hours or more.

Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 03:58 PM (bMG0w)

264 It would have been better if he would landed over Al Capone's vault.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 03:58 PM (MNgU2)

265 I am positive a American B-17 crewman survived a bailout without a parachute, and think other was a Allied airman. The American fell into snow covered pine trees

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:58 PM (bksJQ)

266 Yes put the number of moves it takes in hidden text.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 03:59 PM (qUNWi)

267 265 It would have been better if he would landed over Al Capone's vault. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:58 PM (MNgU2) Roadmaps!

Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 03:59 PM (3ZoRf)

268 I'm interested in the old game too.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 03:59 PM (bksJQ)

269 Ho leeeeee Fuk! think I'd be hoarse from screaming. And definitely would have worn brown pants

Posted by: random. lurker at July 30, 2016 04:00 PM (WF5ei)

270 261 He won't be the first to land without a chute. I believe there have been a few instances where a chute failed and the jumper survived. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:56 PM (MNgU2) Yes, there have been. People have also fallen out of airplanes that were shot down or broke up in mid-air and survived by landing in snowbanks or haystacks. But none of them woke up that morning planning to do it.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 04:00 PM (sdi6R)

271 265 It would have been better if he would landed over Al Capone's vault. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 08:58 PM (MNgU2 I have no tv but I'm getting the feeling he either has not jumped yet or had to throw the emergency chute that he is not wearing.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 04:00 PM (a94gW)

272 Well? did he died?

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 30, 2016 04:01 PM (MeDKr)

273 Brad Pitt survived in World War Z.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 04:01 PM (a94gW)

274 Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 09:00 PM (a94gW) No he nailed it. Anti climatic to me though.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 04:02 PM (MNgU2)

275 I HOPE LANDS ON PARIS HILTON, AND SHE GOES COMPLETELY UP HIS BUTT!

Posted by: MIRROR UNIVERSE MISTER SLAVE at July 30, 2016 04:02 PM (qcmqL)

276 Aaaaaaand his 15 minutes are up

Posted by: random. lurker at July 30, 2016 04:02 PM (WF5ei)

277 Great chess problems thanks! New format is fantastic as well

Posted by: Lurker primus at July 30, 2016 04:03 PM (geyAi)

278 No he nailed it. Anti climatic to me though. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 09:02 PM (MNgU2) Congrats to this guy then. Probably still up there with adrenaline for the next 5 days.

Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 04:03 PM (3ZoRf)

279 275 Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 09:00 PM (a94gW) No he nailed it. Anti climatic to me though. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 09:02 PM (MNgU2 Thanks for the update. I smell smoke and mirrors from that update

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 04:03 PM (a94gW)

280 No, because what this blog desperately needs is more 6-hour chess threads.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 08:56 PM (OxsRO)



It's Saturdaytown Jake!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at July 30, 2016 04:03 PM (wYnyS)

281 Aaaaaaand his 15 minutes are up What a man won't do to get some woshina.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 04:04 PM (qUNWi)

282 279 No he nailed it. Anti climatic to me though. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 09:02 PM (MNgU2) Congrats to this guy then. Probably still up there with adrenaline for the next 5 days. Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 09:03 PM (3ZoRf And he will be quoting Billy Jeff when he tells his wife to put some ice on it.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 04:04 PM (a94gW)

283 And he will be quoting Billy Jeff when he tells his wife to put some ice on it. Posted by: Cactus of Liberty Actually, he's the real daredevil. Plenty of guys have fallen asleep while their wives were talking, but not on national, primetime television.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 04:10 PM (UPYhp)

284 Stratego. Now there's a game. Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 05:30 PM (MNgU2) I had that game once. Don't remember a damn thing about it. Maybe that's why it never caught on in a big way.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at July 30, 2016 04:10 PM (f3Uae)

285 Bigsby, If you are still around, Mrs. JTB has taken Amtrak a few times. Once TSA set up a spot check in Chicago for those boarding the Hiawatha. That's the only time that happened in several trips. She said to remind you that they will usually let people with small children board first, if requested when you get to the gate attendants.

Posted by: JTB at July 30, 2016 04:10 PM (V+03K)

286 Interesting. I've been sort of watching "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly". It's an extended version. Many scenes that I've never seen before. And they don't add anything to the original release.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 04:11 PM (DrCtv)

287 The original game was a board game version of war, and the opposing armies leaving camp (the starting position) and arraying for battle must have been a part of it. I'm still intrigued by it.
Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 08:56 PM (sdi6R)


You might want to look at the book The Immortal Game by Shenk (or Schenk, I forget the exact spelling).

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 04:11 PM (OxsRO)

288 287 Interesting. I've been sort of watching "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly". It's an extended version. Many scenes that I've never seen before. And they don't add anything to the original release. Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 09:11 PM (DrCtv) Most of the time the scenes were cut for a reason.

Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 04:12 PM (3ZoRf)

289 I think i remember how to play Stratego, played enough of it.

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 04:13 PM (bksJQ)

290 267 Yes put the number of moves it takes in hidden text.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 08:59 PM (qUNWi)


What a great idea! Thank you. I will incorporate it into next week's chess thread.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 04:13 PM (OxsRO)

291 see the lewis chess pieces at the british museum for and idea of what rightly medieval chess looked like. they were made in norway in the 12th cent. for trade to ireland they think and were found in a hoard on the isle of lewis. (google lewis chess or search the british museum site) they;re extraordinary, luxe objects. a comparable single seated king just sold at bonham's auction house in london for $300,000 or so.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 04:13 PM (WTSFk)

292 292 see the lewis chess pieces at the british museum for and idea of what rightly medieval chess looked like. they were made in norway in the 12th cent. for trade to ireland they think and were found in a hoard on the isle of lewis. (google lewis chess or search the british museum site) they;re extraordinary, luxe objects. a comparable single seated king just sold at bonham's auction house in london for $300,000 or so. Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 30, 2016 09:13 PM (WTSFk) Those are beautiful. Thanks for mentioning them.

Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 04:15 PM (3ZoRf)

293 Most of the time the scenes were cut for a reason.
Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 09:12 PM (3ZoRf)


Exactly. My DVD of GBU has a "deleted scenes" sub-menu and I watched them and thought, "who cares?"

The previously deleted scenes in the "directors cut" of Aliens actually make it a not-as-good film. Like you said, deleted scenes are deleted for a reason.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 04:15 PM (OxsRO)

294 I played Straego when I was a kid. It was a pretty cool game. Look out for the bomb!

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 04:17 PM (sdi6R)

295 I am trying to think of a movie where the extended version was better. Star Trek the Motion picture? For given values of 'better'. The extended stuff from the original trilogy for Lord of The Rings.

Posted by: Weird Al at July 30, 2016 04:17 PM (3ZoRf)

296 I've seen the Lewis chess set before (just looked it up on Wiki)

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 04:18 PM (bksJQ)

297 Off Yankovic sock.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 04:18 PM (3ZoRf)

298 Yeah, the extended version of LoTR was the only way to go.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 04:19 PM (DrCtv)

299 Downside was it made them 3 hours long. For Fellowship and Two Towers that was ok. I did not like what they did with Return, so...

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 04:19 PM (3ZoRf)

300 Had to check out for a bit. Zombie, thank you for your detailed explanation. Much appreciated

Posted by: Insomniac at July 30, 2016 04:19 PM (0mRoj)

301 Hey HH. How ya doing? How close are ya to Parkville?

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 04:23 PM (jUilJ)

302 Actually, he's the real daredevil. Plenty of guys have fallen asleep while their wives were talking, but not on national, primetime television. Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 09:10 PM (UPYhp) He was not asleep. He was peaking from his MDMA and cocaine roll.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 04:25 PM (a94gW)

303 Eli Wallach was a Jewish kid from Brooklyn

Posted by: Skip at July 30, 2016 04:26 PM (bksJQ)

304 Watching Ninja Assassin on the Spanish channel. One of the best martial arts movies made IMO. Lots of CGI blood. The best one was on last night. Kung Fu Hustle.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 04:27 PM (MNgU2)

305
The previously deleted scenes in the "directors cut" of Aliens actually make it a not-as-good film. Like you said, deleted scenes are deleted for a reason.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 09:15 PM (OxsRO)









I'm ambivalent on the "Ripley and her Daughter" subplot, I can live with it, but it really doesn't add anything. The slightly expanded disciplinary hearing scene is definitely inferior, better with the original with an impersonal "case closed". The Auto Sentries fucking rocked, though.

But the scene with Newt's family absolutely ruins the mood of the film. Yeah, we already understand that there were a shitload of families there, and that they're probably all dead. But in a good monster movie you NEVER show the monster until it's absolutely necessary (the Jaws Rule). Better to build up the suspense. It's the only scene I routinely fast forward through.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 30, 2016 04:28 PM (LuZz8)

306 >>> Watching Ninja Assassin on the Spanish channel. One of the best martial arts movies made IMO. Lots of CGI blood. The best one was on last night. Kung Fu Hustle. Inspiring comment.

Posted by: Carl Douglas at July 30, 2016 04:29 PM (eiFlk)

307 Never seen either one of those Joe. Enter the Dragon will probably always be my favorite. I know, old.

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 04:31 PM (jUilJ)

308 @307- Those cats were fast as lightning.

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 04:33 PM (jUilJ)

309 Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 09:31 PM (jUilJ) Definitely worth seeing if you like those type movies. On second thought what makes them so good is you don't really need to be a Kung Fu movie fan to enjoy them.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 04:35 PM (MNgU2)

310 So I gather from the comments that the jumper already did it. In the late 50s and early 60s Col. Joseph Kittinger made a series of record-breaking parachute jumps from high-altitude balloons, culminating in a jump from over 100,000 feet, or about 20 miles. There was talk at the time about putting him in the nose cone of a Redstone rocket, firing it on a suborbital trajectory where it would reach 100 miles in altitude, and having him jump from there, but it never materialized.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 04:36 PM (sdi6R)

311 308 Never seen either one of those Joe. Enter the Dragon will probably always be my favorite. I know, old. Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 09:31 PM (jUilJ) Bruce "Lee Roy" Green was excellent and beat the Shotgun of Harlem.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 04:39 PM (a94gW)

312 I saw Aliens in a Houston theatre with the extended scenes.  Plus one additional that is not on the dvd.  Cant remember if it was Apone or Burke or Hudson (i think Burke) cocooned up and facing an opening egg pot when Ripley went past to get Newt.  "Kill me!" the character pleaded.  Ripley gave him a grenade and went on to get Newt.  "Boom!"

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 30, 2016 04:39 PM (JO9+V)

313 Hey teej. Not that far actually.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 04:41 PM (DrCtv)

314 Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 30, 2016 09:39 PM (a94gW) Last Dragon was a fun movie. Sure Nuff.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 30, 2016 04:44 PM (MNgU2)

315 I tend to watch martial arts movies for the techniques. The less Hollywoodism in them the better. An exception was Crouching Tiger. Lots of that with the rooftop runs and such but beautiful scenes and lots of the real thing too.

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 04:45 PM (jUilJ)

316 The extended 'Aliens' was good with one exception -- the scene in Hadley's Hope before the marines get there. Introducing characters that don't matter. Backstory already implicit in the plotline revealed in the rest of the movie. Aristotle would have flayed the screenwriter alive for even thinking of that scene

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 30, 2016 04:45 PM (/pUiX)

317 I insist on the extended Two Towers just FOR GONDOR.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 30, 2016 04:47 PM (/pUiX)

318 Been playing there some HH. There last Saturday. Got hired to do a private party the 20th. Probably play the public spot again in Sept. Do a 3 hour set for them from 4-7.

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 04:48 PM (jUilJ)

319 Aristotle would have flayed the screenwriter alive for even thinking of that scene Posted by: boulder terlit hobo Verily, a pointless scene. And the whole film needs moar codpieces.

Posted by: William Shakespeare at July 30, 2016 04:49 PM (UPYhp)

320 Best rock song ever: http://tinyurl.com/zcd4g9b

Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 30, 2016 04:50 PM (GdFQh)

321 Looking at Drudge, there's a photo of the balloon going down in flames this morning, but none of the linked articles show it. So where did that photo come from?

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 04:51 PM (sdi6R)

322 Likely to do a winery between Eudora and KC sometime this fall too.

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 04:52 PM (jUilJ)

323 The thing about that scene is that without it, it adds another note of tension to the film. What happened? Is Ripley right (of course she is, it's an aliens movie?) If the aliens did get them, did they get all of them? As it was it should have been left alone.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 04:52 PM (3ZoRf)

324 moron friendly

Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 30, 2016 04:52 PM (GdFQh)

325 >>>Endgame of the Week

What if the black king won't cooperate? Instead of always moving down towards white's first rank, he just keeps on moving up and down, staying in the center of the board. He won't win that way, but he can get the threefold repetition draw without too much trouble.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 04:52 PM (R+30W)

326
The extended 'Aliens' was good with one exception -- the scene in Hadley's Hope before the marines get there. Introducing characters that don't matter. Backstory already implicit in the plotline revealed in the rest of the movie.

Aristotle would have flayed the screenwriter alive for even thinking of that scene

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 30, 2016 09:45 PM (/pUiX)












I'm actually thinking of editing it out of the bluray rip I have on my hard drive.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 30, 2016 04:53 PM (LuZz8)

327 Pie Fight!

Posted by: redc1c4 at July 30, 2016 04:53 PM (i6Yqt)

328 jumping to the bottom

Posted by: Jake at July 30, 2016 04:54 PM (v+nPg)

329 Pie Fight! Yeah...that really ruined Aliens for me too.

Posted by: eleven at July 30, 2016 04:56 PM (qUNWi)

330 So where did that photo come from? === Maybe a screen-cap from the video? (There's a video linked now if there wasn't one earlier, rickl. I don't know---I've been out all day and hadn't hit Drudge until now.)

Posted by: [/i][/b]andycanuck[/s][/u] at July 30, 2016 04:56 PM (LdMbv)

331 Sounds great teej. I AM gonna have to make it up there to see you.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 04:57 PM (DrCtv)

332 Yeah...that really ruined Aliens for me too. Posted by: eleven But the musical number was catchy, even if it spoiled the atmosphere.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 04:58 PM (UPYhp)

333
Yeah...that really ruined Aliens for me too.
Posted by: eleven

But the musical number was catchy, even if it spoiled the atmosphere.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 09:58 PM (UPYhp)








Of course, the volcano scene rocked. Cameron's a douche, but he knows how to do compelling effects work.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 30, 2016 05:00 PM (LuZz8)

334 333 Yeah...that really ruined Aliens for me too. Posted by: eleven But the musical number was catchy, even if it spoiled the atmosphere. Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 30, 2016 09:58 PM (UPYhp) Who could have foreseen the alien doing "Ragtime Gal!"

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:00 PM (3ZoRf)

335 Musical number in "the killing joke" - another chilling facet of the Joker's mind the Batgirl jumping Batman's bones in the movie rendition of TKJ - no. Nnnnnnno. Just, no.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 30, 2016 05:00 PM (/pUiX)

336 Aetius https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J8SzBhjqaQ

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 30, 2016 05:01 PM (/pUiX)

337 337 Aetius https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J8SzBhjqaQ Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 30, 2016 10:01 PM (/pUiX) LOL. I was thinking of Spaceballs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVZUVeMtYXc

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:03 PM (3ZoRf)

338 that painting of christopher walken is really creepy.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at July 30, 2016 05:03 PM (KP5rU)

339 I'll try to let you know. Haven't booked the Sept gig yet but we can pretty much pick and choose. Front man on accoustic guitar, bass player and me behind them trying my best not to mess things up. Decent little place with pretty good food. Great Bose sound system and won't beat you to death with volume.

Posted by: teej at July 30, 2016 05:04 PM (jUilJ)

340 Just watched Hickanee smack Eve down....Megan Kelly is a total ass clown...it pains me when Trump,is right so much

Posted by: Patrick Henry at July 30, 2016 05:06 PM (sh3RV)

341 Huckabee - apple crap spellcheck

Posted by: Patrick Henry at July 30, 2016 05:06 PM (sh3RV)

342 Is this where I find white mates?

Posted by: Sandra Flook at July 30, 2016 05:06 PM (Tyii7)

343 Chubs McCain is bragging that her photo is used for catfishing. She also says "she not single" I cant believe any guy wd date her who didnt have an ulterior motive.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 05:08 PM (iQIUe)

344 343 Is this where I find white mates? Posted by: Sandra Flook at July 30, 2016 10:06 PM (Tyii7) Check the nearest navy vessel.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:08 PM (3ZoRf)

345 LOL. I was thinking of Spaceballs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVZUVeMtYXc Posted by: Aetius451AD LET ME SHOW YA SOMETHING! https://youtu.be/K2lXWP9RAgU?t=2m32s

Posted by: Fire Marshal Bill at July 30, 2016 05:08 PM (UPYhp)

346 344 Chubs McCain is bragging that her photo is used for catfishing. She also says "she not single" I cant believe any guy wd date her who didnt have an ulterior motive. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 10:08 PM (iQIUe) Got to get to that sweet McCain money?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:08 PM (3ZoRf)

347 I'm not rayciss. Black mates will do equally as well.

Posted by: Sandra Flook at July 30, 2016 05:09 PM (Tyii7)

348 344 Chubs McCain is bragging that her photo is used for catfishing. She also says "she not single" I cant believe any guy wd date her who didnt have an ulterior motive. Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 30, 2016 10:08 PM (iQIUe) That's because any smart catfisher isn't going to use a hot chick's photo.

Posted by: buzzion at July 30, 2016 05:10 PM (bMG0w)

349 Got to get to that sweet McCain money? Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 10:08 PM (3ZoRf) **** I'm sure there is an inch thick prenup to be overcome before marrying that.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at July 30, 2016 05:10 PM (YLidQ)

350 Check the nearest navy vessel.

I tried the USS Milk but those boys just didn't seem interested.

Posted by: Sandra Flook at July 30, 2016 05:11 PM (Tyii7)

351 351 Check the nearest navy vessel. I tried the USS Milk but those boys just didn't seem interested. Posted by: Sandra Flook at July 30, 2016 10:11 PM (Tyii7) Don't take it personally. Just keep plugging.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:13 PM (3ZoRf)

352 I tried the USS Milk but those boys just didn't seem interested. Posted by: Sandra Flook We were hoping for a young Macaulay Culkin, you look more like a present-day Macaulay Culkin.

Posted by: Capt. Topper Bottoms, USS Milk, Commanding at July 30, 2016 05:14 PM (UPYhp)

353 Evening, fappers. Tough day at Rancho de Ricardo today. Dad was not "co-operative."

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at July 30, 2016 05:16 PM (9ym/8)

354 331 So where did that photo come from? === Maybe a screen-cap from the video? (There's a video linked now if there wasn't one earlier, rickl. I don't know---I've been out all day and hadn't hit Drudge until now.) Posted by: andycanuck at July 30, 2016 09:56 PM (LdMbv) The currently linked video only shows the aftermath of the crash. Anyway, last night you were talking about historically cold winters, and I added another one, probably after you had left for the night. http://acecomments.mu.nu/?blog=86&post=364894#c25599890

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 05:17 PM (sdi6R)

355 "Pie Fight!" *ducks back into restroom*

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at July 30, 2016 05:18 PM (9ym/8)

356 Tough day at Rancho de Ricardo today. Dad was not "co-operative." Posted by: Ricardo Kill at July 30, 2016 10:16 PM (9ym/ Sorry to hear that.

Posted by: Country Boy at July 30, 2016 05:19 PM (heN73)

357 Yes, rickl. I saw that this morning. Thanks. Yeah, it looks like the whole period of the War of the Spanish Succession was cold as a bitch. I blame Queen Anne.

Posted by: [/i][/b]andycanuck[/s][/u] at July 30, 2016 05:19 PM (LdMbv)

358 "Pie Fight!"


*ducks back into restroom*



Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at July 30, 2016 10:18 PM (9ym/



Oh, a wise guy!  Got ya!  Nyuk nyuck nyuck!

Posted by: Curly Howard at July 30, 2016 05:20 PM (JO9+V)

359 What if the black king won't cooperate? Instead of always moving down towards white's first rank, he just keeps on moving up and down, staying in the center of the board. He won't win that way, but he can get the threefold repetition draw without too much trouble.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 09:52 PM (R+30W)


Good question. This is what happens:

1.Rg8 Rc1 2.Rg4+ Kb3 3.Kh5 Rc8 4.Rg8 Rc1 5.Rg3+ Kb4 6.Rg4+ Kb3 7.h8=Q Rh1+ 8.Rh4.

Oops.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 05:21 PM (OxsRO)

360 Off, one hit wonder sock.

Posted by: fluffy at July 30, 2016 05:21 PM (eiFlk)

361 this thread sucks and blows at the same time. didn't think that was possible.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at July 30, 2016 05:22 PM (KP5rU)

362 We were hoping for a young Macaulay Culkin btdt

Posted by: harry reid at July 30, 2016 05:22 PM (/pUiX)

363 1.f7# Oh, you sneaky bitch. That is sweet. I wanted to take the pawn and threaten the rook while the king was in check. Checkmate is better.

Posted by: Another Bob at July 30, 2016 05:24 PM (qVVhq)

364 So apparently the version of "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" is the "Heavens Gate" version. It's listed as 3 hours 15 minutes long.

Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 05:27 PM (DrCtv)

365 365 So apparently the version of "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" is the "Heavens Gate" version. It's listed as 3 hours 15 minutes long. Posted by: HH at July 30, 2016 10:27 PM (DrCtv) You think the modern inability to tell a tight, consise story is due to ADHD or just most modern directors not having any talent? Discuss.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:29 PM (3ZoRf)

366 Actually, I had something like this in mind:

1. Rg8 Rc1
2. Rg4+ Ka3
3. Kh5 Rc8
4. Rg8 Rc1
5. Rg3+ Ka4
6. Kh4 Rc8
7. Rg8 Rc1
8. Rg4+ b4

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 05:29 PM (R+30W)

367 Yeah, it looks like the whole period of the War of the Spanish Succession was cold as a bitch. I blame Queen Anne. Posted by: andycanuck We the colonists of New Englande support our womyn Queen and place the blame for Global Cooling were it truly belongs, Sir George, Earl of Booshe. He lied to our Queen for whale oil.

Posted by: Goody Cloggenstein, founder of Brattleboro, VT at July 30, 2016 05:31 PM (UPYhp)

368 "Sorry to hear that." Not complaining, just saying. Comes with the territory if you have an elderly/dementia/Alzheimer's relative. A week of good days, and then.........one right in the crapper. You hope they go to bed and don't remember a thing about it tomorrow.

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at July 30, 2016 05:31 PM (9ym/8)

369 364 1.f7# Oh, you sneaky bitch. That is sweet. I wanted to take the pawn and threaten the rook while the king was in check. Checkmate is better. Posted by: Another Bob at July 30, 2016 10:24 PM (qVVhq) Yeah, that one was lovely.

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 05:31 PM (sdi6R)

370 Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 10:17 PM (sdi6R)

Purely anecdotal and I have no sources, but I swear that my grandmother claimed she remembered they were able to cross the Indian River on the ice in the Portsmouth Virginia area with horses during a very cold winter (had to have been in the late 1890s to early 1900s).

Posted by: Hrothgar [/i][/u][/b][/s] at July 30, 2016 05:31 PM (wYnyS)

371 Get away, Hedley!

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at July 30, 2016 05:32 PM (9ym/8)

372 For example. I have never watched Boyhood. (I expect half the people reading are scratching their head and saying: what?) I have been watching back episodes of RLM today and saw their review for the movie. It pretty much confirms my thoughts on seeing trailers and seeing other bits about it. No story, just a gimmick- and way too fricking long. John Wick might be the only film I can think of recently that did not feel like a bloated mess.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:33 PM (3ZoRf)

373 That's Hedley! Wait...

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 30, 2016 05:35 PM (3ZoRf)

374 358 Yeah, it looks like the whole period of the War of the Spanish Succession was cold as a bitch. Posted by: andycanuck at July 30, 2016 10:19 PM (LdMbv) There was also this, in the American northeast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Snow_of_1717

Posted by: rickl at July 30, 2016 05:36 PM (sdi6R)

375 You hope they go to bed and don't remember a thing about it tomorrow. Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at July 30, 2016 10:31 PM (9ym/ Dang, Hedley communicates from the dead almost as good as buzzion does.

Posted by: Country Boy at July 30, 2016 05:39 PM (heN73)

376 Ont up.

Posted by: Hanoverfist at July 30, 2016 05:40 PM (s7y11)

377 367 Actually, I had something like this in mind:
1. Rg8 Rc1
2. Rg4+ Ka3
3. Kh5 Rc8
4. Rg8 Rc1
5. Rg3+ Ka4
6. Kh4 Rc8
7. Rg8 Rc1
8. Rg4+ b4

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 10:29 PM (R+30W)


OK, so on your 5...Ka4, instead of 6.Kh4, try:

6.Rg4+ Ka3
7.h8Q Rh1
8.Rh4 and no more skewer threat

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 30, 2016 05:42 PM (OxsRO)

378 @OM, yep, that would work. Let me come up with a better example. Black kept on finding a way to keep its king away from the edge when I was trying it out against an app.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 06:51 PM (R+30W)

379 >>>There's an alternate line 3...Rc5+

I was basically in that scenario, but I was still trying to find a way to save the queen instead of settling for Q/R swap. Once it decided on that alternate '3', just no pushing it back into the main scenario. I just ended up with the threefold repetition draws.

Should have looked closer to what you were saying about that alternative line. For some reason I initially thought it was my alternative instead of the opponent's, so I thought I would make sense of the main line first.

I've got a full head of hair, so that little pile I pulled out shouldn't be too noticeable.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 30, 2016 08:44 PM (R+30W)

380 "Yikes! All because of me? No no no, I was half referring to my own limitations. Besides, someone (fluffy?) pointed out that the more of those puzzles you do, the better you get at spotting them when you're playing for real. I'd like to keep the baby-steps puzzles; you could always throw in one or two of the open-ended ones for the smart morons." Ditto for me. Thanks for this thread, in any case.

Posted by: RM at July 31, 2016 05:57 AM (U3LtS)

381 Find someone with old copies of Dragon Magazine, back in the late 80's they had 3 level Dragon chess. Flyers could access the Sky level and Subterraneaniens could access the Underearth level.

Posted by: ChessWho? at July 31, 2016 03:52 PM (iT+IO)

382 White does have a successful continuation after 3... Rc5+, 4.Kh4 Rc8 via the zwischenschach 5.Rg3+ and then 6.Rg8 This check forces the black king to a disadvantageous row.

After 5...Kb4 (or ...Ka4), 6.Rg8, then 6...Rc4+ allows 7.Rg4 pinning the black rook, and 6...Rc1 leads to 7.Rg4+ Ka3 (or ...Kb3) 8.Rg3+ and black cannot prevent the pawn from successfully queening

After, 5...Ka2 (or Kb2), 6.Rg8, we have transposed to the same position as in the regular variation, but one move earlier. 

Further king checks by black's rook will just speed up the inevitable.

Curiously, though, if the black rook were in the D file, then I'm not sure that white could prevent the white pawn capture by black's rook

3... Rd5+, 4.Kh4 Rd8, 5.Rg3+ Kb4, 6.Rg8 Rd1, 7Rg4+ and black can play Kc5 without blocking his rook from the 8th row The position gets very complex after that.

Posted by: civil truth at July 31, 2016 09:57 PM (t3LBb)

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