November 26, 2010

Pilots Criticize "Idiot" TSA Workers [rdbrewer]
— Open Blogger

Pilots speak their minds in online forums.

When pilots do talk, the comments tend to be circumspect—with the notable exception of Michael Roberts, the ExpressJet pilot who refused to go through a full-body scanner in Memphis.

There is, however, a place to get an unfiltered view from the cockpit. That’s at the online discussion boards where pilots hang out and air their views, safely anonymous behind electronic nicknames. At sites like AirlinePilotForums.com and PPRUNE.org, heated discussions about the screenings rage on.

Some of the things they have revealed online: A few pilots feel TSA screenings are necessary. They generally agree that profiling should be used. Drug mules have long known about security gaps that scanning and pat-downs could not detect (body cavities). And TSA workers are idiots:

If there is one theme that emerges clearly time and again in pilots’ online discussions, it’s disdain for the TSA checkpoint worker. They are “the government equivalent of being a Wendy's burger flipper,” according to one typical comment from AirlinePilotForums.com. “Barney Fife is more suited for their job,” writes another. Anecdotes frequently portray TSA workers as mindlessly hewing to procedures at the expense of exercising the judgment needed to sniff out the evildoers.

Many other concerns of pilots are addressed in the article. For example, the TSA is apparently doing nothing about threats posed by airport workers who have access to planes beyond security checkpoints. The fact that they're not patting-down baggage handlers or emptying and X-raying the contents of food delivery trucks outside the view of the traveling public is further proof current security measures are merely Security Theater.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:00 AM | Comments (90)
Post contains 277 words, total size 2 kb.

1
I keep hearing idiots say, "I don't care if they pat me down for a half-hour, I want to make sure I'm safe when I fly."

Well, idiot, how is it making you safer if they pat YOU down? You're obviously not a terrorist and your fat ass isn't gonna make the plane crash. So how is it adding to security to pat down the average traveler?

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:07 AM (uFokq)

2 >>The fact that they're not patting-down baggage workers or emptying and X-raying the contents of food delivery trucks outside the view of the traveling public...<<

Based on their history, the TSA won't do that until after a terrorist attempt is made via a food delivery truck or by a baggage worker.

That's how the system works.  So to speak.

Posted by: SlaveDog at November 26, 2010 07:07 AM (foEpt)

3
Hey, yeah, I just had my ball-bag fondled and the crack of my ass felt up for a bomb.

Gee whiz, I feel safe now!

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:08 AM (uFokq)

4

If they're trying to make the traveling public feel safe, they're not doing such a good job.

They could occasionally give us an update on how many terrorists they've caught.

Or something.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at November 26, 2010 07:11 AM (b6qrg)

5 The #1 point the pilots make that the TSA does not get is that pilots don;t even need to bring anything special on board; they could just crash the planes themselves!  It's really the ultimate example of needing to profile (background checks to license pilots) versus treating them all the same.

Posted by: logprof at November 26, 2010 07:11 AM (BP6Z1)

6 The fact that they're not patting-down baggage workers or emptying and X-raying the contents of food delivery trucks outside the view of the traveling public is further proof current security measures are merely Security Theater.

We are truly in the best of hands when the writers of a spy TV show (Burn Notice) think of this potential security gap (i.e. the people delivering food and supplies) before the highly trained and motivated personnel at TSA.  All hail the glorious TSA, huzzah!

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 26, 2010 07:12 AM (9hSKh)

7 Based on their history, the TSA won't do that until after a terrorist SUCCESSFUL attempt is made via a food delivery truck or by a baggage worker.

ftfy

Posted by: Vic at November 26, 2010 07:12 AM (e4sSD)

8 #3  That's how the system works.  So to speak.

Reactive rather than proactive.  Opposite of the Israeli's security protocols.  We are truly in the best of hands. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 26, 2010 07:13 AM (9hSKh)

9
And just look at all those small-govt pro-Constitution Republican congressmen taking time out of their holiday to go to bat for The People.


Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:15 AM (uFokq)

10 Wow, American Thinker is interesting today: One column advocating Sarah running for President in '12, another against, and another for Rubio running in '12.

Posted by: logprof at November 26, 2010 07:18 AM (BP6Z1)

11 Send emails to Muslim countries. "We lose a plane, you lose a city." After that we fly like it's 1965.

Posted by: eman at November 26, 2010 07:20 AM (tz/Za)

12 Has anyone else noticed the occasional poster claiming that most TSA workers are ex-military and retired police officers?  I saw quite a lot of that (I think even a few here) when this story started to get whipped up.  I assume it's astroturfing.  None of the TSA workers I've encountered look like anything other than failed Walmart greeters. 

Posted by: Y-not at November 26, 2010 07:21 AM (5HSsN)

13 I wonder when Terrye and sauropod will show up and tell us all how these pilots are wrong, and being molested makes us all safer

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 07:24 AM (oVQFe)

14
They just searched a 6 year old boy with autism.

Darn, I feel safe!

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:26 AM (uFokq)

15 (sigh)

Oh boy.  Another TSA-bashing article on Ace of Spades HQ.

It's getting kinda old.  Let's get back to bashing liberals and Obama.

Posted by: Xoxotl at November 26, 2010 07:26 AM (VV1iE)

16
I was scared of flying before, but now that they're thoroughly searching old white men with colostomy bags, I feel much safer.

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:27 AM (uFokq)

17 Another TSA-bashing article on Ace of Spades HQ. It's getting kinda old. Let's get back to bashing liberals and Obama. Posted by: Xoxotl at November 26, 2010 12:26 PM (VV1iE) Why is Christine O'Donnell busy?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 26, 2010 07:28 AM (0GFWk)

18 I'm looking forward to the next time I have to fly when I am wearing a panty liner. 

Posted by: Y-not at November 26, 2010 07:30 AM (5HSsN)

19 Has anyone else noticed the occasional poster claiming that most TSA workers are ex-military and retired police officers? I saw quite a lot of that (I think even a few here) when this story started to get whipped up. I assume it's astroturfing. None of the TSA workers I've encountered look like anything other than failed Walmart greeters.

Posted by: Y-not at November 26, 2010 12:21 PM (5HSsN)

I don't know if it's astroturfing, but based on what I've seen at airports, it's preposterous.  Ever been to the New Orleans airport?  It they're retired military, I'm General Patton.


Posted by: SlaveDog at November 26, 2010 07:31 AM (foEpt)

20 Oh boy.  Another TSA-bashing article on Ace of Spades HQ.

It's getting kinda old.  Let's get back to bashing liberals and Obama.
Posted by: Xoxotl at November 26, 2010 12:26 PM

No, no no, it gives me another chance to ask:

So whom do you trust to stand down the race-mongers and get smart TSA profilers who are not given affirmative action hiring preferences?

President GingrichPawlentyRomneyHuck?
or
President Palin?

Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at November 26, 2010 07:32 AM (sF8uV)

21

These TSA patdowns make me wish I could fart on queue like that Jackass 3D guy.

Posted by: CrustyB at November 26, 2010 07:32 AM (qzgbP)

22 >>Oh boy.  Another TSA-bashing article on Ace of Spades HQ.

It's getting kinda old.  Let's get back to bashing liberals and Obama.>>

Don't you get it?  Liberals and Obama are the face of the TSA.

Posted by: SlaveDog at November 26, 2010 07:33 AM (foEpt)

23 These TSA patdowns make me wish I could fart on queue like that Jackass 3D guy. Posted by: CrustyB at November 26, 2010 12:32 PM (qzgbP) I used to be able when I was young.

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 26, 2010 07:33 AM (0GFWk)

24 ""Send emails to Muslim countries.

"We lose a plane, you lose a city."

After that we fly like it's 1965. ""



That has been my position all along. My idea was to announce point blank, the next time something...anything in the west gets blown up by someone yelling alah akbar we waste the fucking borg cube in mecca, and maybe some other city of our choice depending on our mood.

Posted by: Berserker at November 26, 2010 07:34 AM (gWHrG)

25 Anyway, here's what the hillbuzz boyz reported -- back in August:

We’re going to reiterate what we’ve said on this site before about TSA and security in general at O’Hare and Midway here in Chicago: it’s terrible, and the people working for the TSA are unprofessional, lazy, lackadaisical, and often, in our opinions, far too young and immature to have these jobs.

Whenever we ride the trains to or from these airports, the cars have a half dozen or so TSA agents on them: they behave like wild animals on the trains, while in their TSA uniforms. They act, in fact, much like the Chicago Public School students who ride the CTA buses and trains to and from school. They throw things at each other, scream and yell, pull each others’ hair, talk loudly on their phones, etc.

WHILE IN THEIR TSA UNIFORMS.

At the airport, flying American Airlines to Reagan National on Friday morning, one of us spotted a whole gaggle of TSA agents — four or five of them — huddled in a corner to the side of the security check-in, laughing, quacking, telling jokes, having fun, pushing each other, and paying no attention at all to the security needs of the airport. Surely this was not a designated break area, so we have no clue what they were doing there, acting like that, if they were on the clock. We’re surprised they weren’t drinking.

Meanwhile, the security line was so long, and took so long to process (45 minutes), that one of us came close to missing our flight. We believe taking one or more of these confidence-in-the-system-draining TSA “professionals” off laughing-and-pushing duty and re-assigning them to actual security duty would have been a good decision on the TSA’s part. Maybe the union wouldn’t allow that.

The TSA, at least here in Chicago, might as well employ graduates from the Barnum & Bailey Clown College. We can’t understand why they don’t have better people working for them, because the pay is very good, and so many good workers in Chicago are unemployed.

It looks like they are recruiting directly out of Chicago Public Schools, though, because some of these TSA screeners appear to be 19 or 20 years old, and far too lacking in maturity to take their jobs seriously and stop Muslims with items that look like BOMBS from getting on airplanes…which is what these clowns are supposed to be doing all day.


http://tinyurl.com/27npack


Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at November 26, 2010 07:37 AM (sF8uV)

26
Are there tater-tots at the end of that corndog on the sidebar?

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:37 AM (uFokq)

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 26, 2010 07:38 AM (LVRx2)

28 I'm trying not to look at that sidebar picture. Corndogs are *the creepiest* food on the planet.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 26, 2010 07:39 AM (LVRx2)

29
Dunkin Donuts has a new breakfast food called Sausage Bites.

It follows the corndog concept but it's a small piece of sausage meat inside a ball of pancake bread.

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:41 AM (uFokq)

30
So they're kinda like balls, as in testicles, to complete the corndog.


Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:42 AM (uFokq)

31 Dunkin Donuts has a new breakfast food called Sausage Bites. It follows the corndog concept but it's a small piece of sausage meat inside a ball of pancake bread. Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 12:41 PM (uFokq) I've seen them on the menu. Have you tried them yet?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 26, 2010 07:42 AM (0GFWk)

32
No, I haven't tried them. They look good but I've had D&D's breakfast food before and it was awful.

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:43 AM (uFokq)

33
I'm a Sausage Egg McMuffin kinda guy.

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:44 AM (uFokq)

34 No, I haven't tried them. They look good but I've had D&D's breakfast food before and it was awful. Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 12:43 PM (uFokq) 34 I'm a Sausage Egg McMuffin kinda guy. Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 12:44 PM (uFokq) Me too, but those little balls seem real easy to pop in while your driving?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 26, 2010 07:48 AM (0GFWk)

35
I imagine so.


Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:49 AM (uFokq)

36
What's with all this hype about the full body scanners? There's no reason to be afraid of them.

Posted by: hippieguywhowon'teatirradiatedfood at November 26, 2010 07:49 AM (7+pP9)

37

Me too, but those little balls seem real easy to pop in while your driving?

!!!!!

***giggle giggle***

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 26, 2010 07:50 AM (LVRx2)

38 These TSA patdowns make me wish I could fart on queue like that Jackass 3D guy.

Why would you want to fart on a line of people?

Posted by: Have Blue at November 26, 2010 07:50 AM (mV+es)

39

I have a brother-in-law who is, in fact, a retired police officer and has worked for the TSA for about 7 years.  I attempted to talk to him about the problem of TSA agents reaching into women's underwear and other types of invasive searches.  He refused to believe that those incidents occured.

He also has no problem with the full body scanners.  He would not see my point that these are virtual strip searches.  As far as he is concerned, since the TSA agent viewing the images is in a different room, everything is OK. 

Also, it is Congress's fault, not the TSA's, that a "Trusted Traveler" program has not been instituted.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at November 26, 2010 07:50 AM (S2+uh)

40 Well, when they institute cavity checks for passengers, will Katie Couric's colonoscopy be the TSA training video?

(Ain't flying no mo' until after I chow down at Taco Hell....)

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at November 26, 2010 07:53 AM (1Ialr)

41
Isn't it funny how everything reminds Chris Matthews of 1930's Germany except for being searched & seized by the govt everytime you board a plane?

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:53 AM (uFokq)

42 After literally millions of screenings since 9-11, can the TSA provide any data regarding confiscated explosives, interrupted plots, captured would-be virgin-collectors BEFORE they get on a plane? 

We understand the presence of "authority" does discourage illegal behavior.  For example, a police car parked plainly in sight on the shoulder of the road will certainly result in drivers adhering to traffic laws.  However, said policeman will eventually catch a law-breaking driver regardless of how clearly he is positioned. 

So, the TSA screenings costs us literally billions of $$$ and the results seem negligible, at best.  It seems to me, completely random mathematical screenings based on ever-changing variables would be just as effective, result in fewer delays, fewer personal intrusions, and savings of tax payer money. 


As a final thought, let's face it;  if another plane comes down, it won't matter what was done from a screening perspective, it won't stop law-suits, firings, resignations, and endless blog entries of "what if".

So, reduce the intrusiveness now, keep the would-be pyromaniacs guessing, and save some serious scratch in the process. 




Posted by: The Hammer at November 26, 2010 07:55 AM (32ubA)

43
We should make a list of the best driving food.

For instance, KFC wraps.

Posted by: Soothsayer's A Very AoS Christmas at November 26, 2010 07:55 AM (uFokq)

44

Oh MSNBC sure had it's talking points down on this earlier in the week. They were all saying the same thing -- people are only griping to make Obama look bad. As if he needs the assist there.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 26, 2010 07:56 AM (LVRx2)

45

""Send emails to Muslim countries.

"We lose a plane, you lose a city."

After that we fly like it's 1965. ""

----------------------------------------------

That has been my position all along. My idea was to announce point blank, the next time something...anything in the west gets blown up by someone yelling alah akbar we waste the fucking borg cube in mecca, and maybe some other city of our choice depending on our mood.

One more rewording. Make the condition be the next time somebody yelling "Allah Akhbar" does something we don't like, rather than anything specific like something getting blown up. And we will decide what we like and don't like - after the fact. So tell all the Mohammeds that they'd better not do anything even remotely dodgy. I call it the "minefield principle;" if you're not sure where the minefield starts, best keep far away from anyplace it might be.

Getting specific invites jailhouse lawyering, so instead of blowing things up they might shift to, say, poisoning a water supply, spreading a disease, or using a chemical weapon. Liberals: "Hey, they didn't blow anything up, did they? So we can't retaliate, because we said 'blowing something up.'" The minefield principle knocks that shit on the head.

Second, realistically we won't nuke 'em. But we could drop pig shit all over the borg cube. It would do no objective harm, but would drive the Muzzies crazy, and is probably a worse threat to them. After all, how many virgins do they get for having pig shit dropped them? Maybe a kiss with tongue from Helen Thomas, but that's about it.

 

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 26, 2010 08:05 AM (gCTFi)

46 #40 Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at November 26, 2010 12:50 PM (S2+uh) Make him watch this. http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html He might just burst out crying when he sees he is no hero.

Posted by: SarahW at November 26, 2010 08:06 AM (Z4T49)

47

These TSA patdowns make me wish I could fart on queue like that Jackass 3D guy.

 

I can.  But sometimes I shit my drawers too.

Posted by: Soona at November 26, 2010 08:08 AM (R2cad)

48 As one who flies 200+ flight segments per year, i'd like to add that the TSA folks who annoy me most are not so much the obvious idiots. Instead, it's the "idiot on a sacred mission," or Barney Fife with his one bullet loaded. These are the scary ones, and they're most commonly found at remote outposts like Tri-Cities TN. These folks only get a shot at a few travelers per day, and by God they're going to make it count!

Posted by: Wodeshed, Diamond level Delta flier at November 26, 2010 08:14 AM (//fOp)

49 I think that the basic problem with TSA is that it draws from the bottom of the labor barrel so the proceedures must be tailored to suit the manifold limitatons of the labor force.  And we can't fire them, they're Civil Servants.

Posted by: rabidfox at November 26, 2010 08:16 AM (sgabE)

50

How long before people stop saying "going postal" and start saying "going TSA". Seriously its only a matter of time before one of them goes bezerk.

I may be in the minority, but I'm starting to feel bad for them. It was like they took the jobs because they knew they were going to feel people up.

But I suspect they are unionized government hacks, so I guess I really dont feel to bad for them after all.

Posted by: Swamp Yankee at November 26, 2010 08:18 AM (3DIBw)

51 We could always upgrade the TSA workforce by requiring an opposable thumb.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 26, 2010 08:18 AM (gCTFi)

52

And just look at all those small-govt pro-Constitution Republican congressmen taking time out of their holiday to go to bat for The People.

Very unexpected.


Posted by: StrangernFiction at November 26, 2010 08:21 AM (9ZYFw)

53 The only way any of this changes is when the airlines take control of security. Perhaps the pilots can put pressure on their employers to do something. You'd think the airlines would be all over this: they could immediately increase the number of flyers by at least 10%. At least. Sadly, it seems like they're keeping quiet in hopes of getting some wild 'bama stimulus $ thrown their way. They could be heroes or whores, and I haven't seen any evidence of heroics so far.

Posted by: cali grump at November 26, 2010 08:33 AM (hL0k8)

54 "Anecdotes frequently portray TSA workers as mindlessly hewing to procedures at the expense of exercising the judgment needed to sniff out the evildoers."

That hits it on the head. Common sense is not only not required, it is frowned upon.

Posted by: real joe at November 26, 2010 08:37 AM (IpIBJ)

55 53

And just look at all those small-govt pro-Constitution Republican congressmen taking time out of their holiday to go to bat for The People.

Very unexpected.

Posted by: StrangernFiction at November 26, 2010 01:21 PM (9ZYFw)


You might even say, unprecedented.

Posted by: Josef K. at November 26, 2010 08:37 AM (7+pP9)

56 Are they still 'enhanced' (Pornoscan / rub-down) screening only about 1 in 20?

Posted by: Druid at November 26, 2010 08:46 AM (adCDx)

57 In '96 I worked for about a year @ Chicago-Midway for a very small regional airline. We had one baggage handler who _always_ skipped the security checkpoint using the access keys we had. It would make sense if it was more convenient, but it wasn't. If you went through the baggage door, you had to go outside (into a frigid Chicago winter or a humid Chicago summer), weave your way through vehicular traffic, and then keypad in through the gate. Not only that, but the gate was farther than the time clock, so he had to come back through the terminal into the office. I finally quit when he threatened to push me into a spinning propeller and management didn't take it seriously. BTW, Did I mention he was an older Iraqi gentleman who lived with his mother?

Posted by: Topper Harley at November 26, 2010 09:04 AM (mVsDD)

58

The #1 point the pilots make that the TSA does not get is that pilots don;t even need to bring anything special on board; they could just crash the planes themselves!  It's really the ultimate example of needing to profile (background checks to license pilots) versus treating them all the same.

 

 

 

Right.  Not to mention when I strap in to my aircraft I have a crash axe that sits behind me.  I have access to the Hydraulic bay (hell hole) when i'm conducting a pre-flight inspection.  We can open up all kind of access doors, battery bays, and engine fire extinguishing system doors to hide shit in. I have access to the main landing gear doors to hide shit in and I can open up the nose wheel doors which are mechanical and REALLY hide shit in there.  I've had pilot friends of mine had their flashlights (small mag lights) taken away from them by the TSA.  Kind of hard to pre-flight in the dark.  So I miss a hydraulic 5606 leak in one of my brake lines because of no flashlight is safer than having a flashlight taken away from me by TSA because I might hijack myself with it?

Posted by: learflyer at November 26, 2010 09:04 AM (9vscO)

59 It they're retired military, I'm General Patton.

Alvin Greene was ex-military.  I'm just saying...

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 26, 2010 09:14 AM (SpfKz)

60 44 We should make a list of the best driving food. For instance, KFC wraps.
---------
Taco Time crisp meat and crisp bean burritos.

Posted by: Anachronda at November 26, 2010 09:25 AM (6fER6)

61 FOX reporting Obama needed 12 stitches in his mouth after a Bball incident today. LOL

Posted by: Barbarian at November 26, 2010 09:28 AM (EL+OC)

62 : SlaveDog at November 26, 2010 12:31 PM (foEpt)

 Your mention of NOLA Louis Armstrong/Moisant made me take a look at your sig.
  I  very cool graphic I love it! LOL!

Posted by: Taint Painter at November 26, 2010 09:29 AM (E7i+5)

63 64 FOX reporting Obama needed 12 stitches in his mouth after a Bball incident today. LOL

Posted by: Barbarian at November 26, 2010 02:28 PM (EL+OC)



Hmmmmm.

Posted by: Mercer Virus at November 26, 2010 09:30 AM (EL+OC)

64 Bet Palin could kick his ass at baseball, too. Lord, what is wrong with my beloved country that this pansy got elected.

Posted by: cali grump at November 26, 2010 09:35 AM (hL0k8)

65

As one who flies 200+ flight segments per year, i'd like to add that the TSA folks who annoy me most are not so much the obvious idiots. Instead, it's the "idiot on a sacred mission," or Barney Fife with his one bullet loaded. These are the scary ones, and they're most commonly found at remote outposts like Tri-Cities TN.

Yeah, I've encountered this a couple of times flying out of Montgomery, AL.  There's hardly any passengers, so the TSA guys went real hardcore in directing people through the line, step by step.

Uh, fellas?  We're flying in puddle-jumpers to much more important airports.  If a Muslim starts feeling froggy, the last plane he's going to target is a small flight going to Dallas or Atlanta.

At least I didn't have to go through a scanner or pat-down, though.

One line of argument that is popping up in these TSA defenses is the false dilemma of "If given a choice between an unsecured flight and one with the pat-downs and scanners, I'll take the latter any day of the week!"  Well, okay, you lemming--let's institute both kinds of flights at the airports and see which ones people prefer, since there can't possibly be a middle ground between the two extremes, according to you.

Posted by: Red Rocks Rockin at November 26, 2010 09:35 AM (/Pw+r)

66 "disdain for the TSA checkpoint worker. They are “the government equivalent of being a Wendy's burger flipper,"

This is why unfortunately it would be difficult to institute Israeli-style screening.  Israel does not just do checkbox profiling, though I'm sure "certain groups" get more scrutiny.  They ask questions of each traveller and look for people who are acting suspicious.  But this requires intelligent, perceptive screeners.  TSA employees are now chosen precisely to be those who mindlessly follow procedure.

Posted by: Gary Rosen at November 26, 2010 09:36 AM (9CzKK)

67


This is why unfortunately it would be difficult to institute Israeli-style screening.  Israel does not just do checkbox profiling, though I'm sure "certain groups" get more scrutiny.  They ask questions of each traveller and look for people who are acting suspicious.  But this requires intelligent, perceptive screeners.  TSA employees are now chosen precisely to be those who mindlessly follow procedure.

Posted by: Gary Rosen at November 26, 2010 02:36 PM (9CzKK)

Sounds like it would be fairly easy to me to start down a path of a more Israeli style security.  Fire all these incompetents and start hiring people that are qualified at a wage that is reasonable for the work.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 10:07 AM (oVQFe)

68 As a TSO, why should I care what the pilots think of me? They're basically the bus drivers of the sky, only they're paid a lot worse than any municipal bus driver and usually have worse attitudes.

As for why pilots get screened, it would do some of you well to research Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 and to realize that not every pilot in uniform is flying a plane out of that particular airport.

Posted by: Shivv at November 26, 2010 10:42 AM (SlM0z)

69 70 As a TSO, why should I care what the pilots think of me? They're basically the bus drivers of the sky, only they're paid a lot worse than any municipal bus driver and usually have worse attitudes.

As for why pilots get screened, it would do some of you well to research Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 and to realize that not every pilot in uniform is flying a plane out of that particular airport.

Posted by: Shivv at November 26, 2010 03:42 PM (SlM0z)

Maybe their attitude is based on dealing with you as a TSO, knowing that you are a pathetic excuse for a person and a joke of a security personnel and are not making air travel safer.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 10:59 AM (oVQFe)

70

Finally dropped the lurk due to Shivv's lack of knowledge.

PSA flight was brought down by a fired USAir employee. I think he was skimming the counter till IIRC. But he was a grounder, not a pilot or any other flight crewmember.

I was based in LAX for a time. There was more than one way to bypass the monkey line in terminal one, and there probably still is. TSA is now and its rent-a-cop version before it were always a joke. The straw man is a character in the Wizard of Oz. Drop it and focus on the imposter behind the curtain. He is all thunder sound and flash pots.

And this is no way racist, just 2 decades worth of watching and being in the show.

Posted by: USAir not PSA at November 26, 2010 11:14 AM (NmSwV)

71 PSA was brought down by a "grounder." That's fine, but that doesn't mean that an air crew member couldn't do the same thing, which was the whole point I was trying to make. There is a reason everyone gets screened, no matter how many background checks they've been through or how much trust we put in them. Sometimes people just snap. It's a pretty far step from skimming the till to killing an entire planeload of people, yet that's exactly what happened.

As for you comment buzzion, I'm not sure exactly how you presume to know what kind of person I am, or how I perform my job duties. Like any organization, TSA has its share of duds and skells. I don't count myself among them, and if you met me I don't think you would either.

Posted by: Shivv at November 26, 2010 11:24 AM (SlM0z)

72

As for you comment buzzion, I'm not sure exactly how you presume to know what kind of person I am, or how I perform my job duties. Like any organization, TSA has its share of duds and skells. I don't count myself among them, and if you met me I don't think you would either.

Posted by: Shivv at November 26, 2010 04:24 PM (SlM0z)

Same with Pilots.  Although I think that even the kindest easy going pilot in the US is going to be rude when dealing with a bunch of molesting perverts that aren't doing a fucking thing to make airline travel safer.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 11:36 AM (oVQFe)

73

And yet, everyone does not get screened. Despite your assertion. You know that to be true and I do too. Don't start quoting the CFR because I won't give out any state secrets here, but the security line is by far the least effective entry point to do harm. You know that as well. Drop the Scarecrow posture, it doesn't stand up to any examination.

Funny thing happened at the airport Wednesday. Every possible TSA agent was on duty. It took longer for me to reapply my Weejuns to my feet than to get from the DL check (again, why?) to that point. So the fear of "opt out" drew the crowds of 'crats for one day only. Today, SNAFU and the lines are again crawling. Why is that?

Dammit Janet and the whole security theater is silly. At least the opt out group started shining some light on that. Too bad it has taken far too long to get to this point.

Posted by: USAir not PSA at November 26, 2010 11:37 AM (NmSwV)

74 USAir, you mind going to DrewM's post here and posting that the lines are crawling today.  Shivv of course might not like it since implementing an Israeli style security would probably put him out of a job.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 11:42 AM (oVQFe)

75 I've been an airline pilot for 10+ years and a USAF pilot for 12 yrs before that.

This whole system is exactly what others have said: 'Security Theater'.

Originally designed after 9/11 to make the public feel safer so they would keep buying tickets, it has now crossed the line into passenger harassment. Airlines initially went along with it because it shifted the security cost burden from them to the gov't, but now it has the potential to start hitting the bottom line.

Especially with the asshat head of the TSA saying, "If you don't like it, don't fly'.

If I want to crash the airplane, I can crash the airplane. The Egypt Air crash proved that beyond a reasonable doubt.

My input is an 'all of the above' approach. Start a 'trusted traveler' program, implement CREWPASS so pilots and FA's are exempt from the most onerous screening, profile, profile, profile, and finally put bomb-sniffing dogs at all checkpoints--they're cheaper and smarter than most TSA agents and have the bonus of offending Muslims!

Posted by: Phat at November 26, 2010 11:47 AM (BYfE4)

76 Actually, considering I just got hired by another agency in DHS to be a Criminal Investigator, I'm sure I could get a TSA job if we ever moved to the Israeli system. But that's beside the point. At this point I'm more curious why buzzion has such a disdain for the TSA. Have you even flown since the new regulations went into effect, or are you just commenting based on anecdotes?

USAir, you're technically right. Not everyone gets screened. There are plenty of employees that have access to the secure side of the airport that go through no screening whatsoever.  That is a huge gap in security, but it would also take a huge amount of manpower to remedy. Everyone who is flying on the plane gets screened, with the exception of people under escort from a LEO or the LEO himself.

Phat, don't know who you fly for, but you know as well as I do that there are plenty of flight crew that come through as regular passengers on a boarding pass. Those people have no chance to crash the plane themselves yet could easily bring something into the cabin to cause a threat. Again, anyone can snap at any time.  Also, can you define what are the more "onerous" screening methods? Beside the pat-down, which in my opinion isn't that onerous in the first place, what else should the crew be exempt from that they aren't already?

Posted by: Shivv at November 26, 2010 12:04 PM (SlM0z)

77 I'm sorry Shivv am I upsetting you by pointing out the fact that your security procedures are bullshit that aren't making us safe?  Do you not like having it thrown in your face that you job is a joke, and strip searches via radiation or getting to second base with every passenger is worthless?  I'm sorry I don't agree with your molesting of women with panty-liners, strip searching little kids, and leaving cancer survivors covered in urine.  Boo hoo.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 12:10 PM (oVQFe)

78

Shivv sez:

USAir, you're technically right. Not everyone gets screened. There are plenty of employees that have access to the secure side of the airport that go through no screening whatsoever.  That is a huge gap in security, but it would also take a huge amount of manpower to remedy. Everyone who is flying on the plane gets screened, with the exception of people under escort from a LEO or the LEO himself.

====================================================

Employees? Like the Snap-On Tool dude? Oh, Never mind. You are correct about manpower and yet we waste countless hours on fruitless searches of the wrong people. Criminals commit crimes. Jeezoo, it's on the telly every night. But to you and your service (I won't call it your employer, because really that is me and the rest of us....I digress) we are all suspects and not your boss.

Where is Dorothy to pull you down from that post Scarecrow?

 

Posted by: ISC if you even know who that is at November 26, 2010 12:17 PM (NmSwV)

79

And before I bail--

Does your TSO place you higher than a GSC? or an ISC? Better check that AOSSP ASAP iykwimaittyd.

God what a moronic world we have made of your's.

End the TSA. Today. After billions and billions, it has done nothing. Ever.

Posted by: ISC if you even know who that is at November 26, 2010 12:26 PM (NmSwV)

80 You're not upsetting me, I'm just genuinely curious about your apparent hate for the TSA and where it comes from.

Despite what you may think, I know that my job is not a joke. Are there procedures I would change? Absolutely. But the new pat-down is not one of them. I think if people actually saw what they involved for themselves, without the media hype, they wouldn't have a problem with them. Yes, checking the inner thigh does usually result in the side of my hand momentarily grazing the genitals of the person I am patting down. But we're not out there groping people.

As for "strip searching little kids," the kids father pulled the kids shirt off without any prompting. He didn't file a complaint, and the kid probably wouldn't have alarmed in the first place if the parents had made sure that their minor child wasn't carrying any metal when going through a metal detector.

I can't really comment on the panty liner issue, because I don't pat women down. I have to guess that it didn't feel right to the TSO doing the pat-down, hence the further screening. Don't people want us using more common sense and judgement calls instead of rigidly applying policy?

Posted by: Shivv at November 26, 2010 12:26 PM (SlM0z)

81 Let me ask you two questions Shivv since you like to claim to be knowledgeable.  What event prompted the need for these scanners and enhanced pat downs?  If an airport does not have the scanners are they doing the enhanced patdown?

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 12:34 PM (oVQFe)

82

He cannot answer Buzz as that would require him to rethink his premise where we are the ones who will go all -splody, not him.

I've suffered these fools for years when they were Wackenhut (and others I cannot remember the name) all the way to the current smurf uniform wearers. But I have no need to turn a political blog into a history of that.

LIterally thousands of semi-tractor trucks drive unimpeded daily on airports nationwide. Think of that for a moment and put on your novelist hat. Meanwhile, I am getting barked at for placing my loafers in the bin with my laptop. Neither of which could do a gnat's fart of damage if compacted with all the plastic explosive possible. Real dangerous shit is happening on the airport today--right now--and not by terrorists, yet Dammit Janet sez the most important thing is for us to get into a line. And we do.

It makes one wonder if the Germans had this much trouble.

 

Posted by: USAir not PSA at November 26, 2010 01:22 PM (NmSwV)

83

I've suffered these fools for years when they were Wackenhut (and others I cannot remember the name) all the way to the current smurf uniform wearers. But I have no need to turn a political blog into a history of that.

No, have at it.  Your point of view is fascinating.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 26, 2010 01:31 PM (IILnr)

84 But they are such simple basic easy to answer questions.  Now my followup questions might be more difficult for him to answer.  But I guess after all his time on his little power trip he doesn't enjoy being on the defensive.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 01:35 PM (oVQFe)

85 Great, first Mall Ninjas, now Airport Ninjas.

MOST of the major vulnerable points in most airports are essentially unsecured.

The TSA is not only a huge waste of money, and imposition on customers, and generally useless (as in its security strategy is essentially dependent on luck), but it gets it the way of real reform by establishing a bureaucracy resistant to change and lets politicians claim they're doing something when they're not.

Why do we resent the TSA? Come on, that's a stupid question. Why is the TSA even THERE is the question, and it's the same reason that the Peanut Pricing Board is there.

Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at November 26, 2010 02:40 PM (bxiXv)

86 I'm a professional pilot and have seen the ridiculousness since the TSA's inception. The resentment toward the TSA has been simmering for a number of years. I like to remind people that the TSA was Tom Daschle's baby. He said, you can't professionalize unless you federalize. Anyway, baggage handlers and construction workers usually bypass screening while flight crews have to go through the whole charade.

My favorite story about screening is when I was reporting for duty to crew an airplane. The TSA agent decided to pat down my ankles, amused, I asked him what he was looking for. "Razor blades, you might have razor blades in your sock and take over the airplane". Me, "dude, I'm crewing the airplane and I'm locked in the cockpit with a hardened door that deadbolts from the inside. I have a crash axe behind my seat with a 3 inch spike on it. Behind the captain's seat is a three foot long steel handle to be used in the event of an emergency landing gear extension. And I'm in control of the aircraft."

Him, uuhhh  ..me..*facepalm*

Posted by: Willy at November 26, 2010 03:46 PM (7didf)

87 *edit to above. The crash axe is required by FAA regulation.

Posted by: Willy at November 26, 2010 03:48 PM (7didf)

88

Posted by: Willy at November 26, 2010 08:46 PM (7didf)

Gee I can't imagine why Pilots would be treating TSA guys like Shivv with disdain with professionalism and common sense approaches like that.

Posted by: buzzion at November 26, 2010 03:56 PM (oVQFe)

89 hello everyone,im wholesale supplier  online

Welcome to our website   

=====   http://www.1shopping.us/    =======

accept paypal and free shipping

We need your support and trust!!!

Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps

To our website Walk around A look at

Maybe you'll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth

You'll find our price is more suitable for you.

And we shall be offer you free gift about MP4 if you more order.

=====   http://www.1shopping.us/   ========

Posted by: xixi at November 27, 2010 01:50 PM (TrVxe)

90 here is a pratical and professional AVCHD Editing software for HD Camcorders.Easily archivable and vesatile functions make AVCHD Editor stand edit avchd ,you can have a try

Posted by: ruth at December 06, 2010 10:55 PM (vNZ8G)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
128kb generated in CPU 0.12, elapsed 1.2698 seconds.
62 queries taking 1.1774 seconds, 326 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.