December 31, 2008

Oh, Yeah: Bailouts for Newspapers!
— Ace

Why not? They're bustin' their ass for Obama; shouldn't Obama put them on the payroll?

Connecticut lawmaker Frank Nicastro sees saving the local newspaper as his duty. But others think he and his colleagues are setting a worrisome precedent for government involvement in the U.S. press.

Nicastro represents Connecticut's 79th assembly district, which includes Bristol, a city of about 61,000 people outside Hartford, the state capital. Its paper, The Bristol Press, may fold within days, along with The Herald in nearby New Britain.

That is because publisher Journal Register, in danger of being crushed under hundreds of millions of dollars of debt, says it cannot afford to keep them open anymore.

Nicastro and fellow legislators want the papers to survive, and petitioned the state government to do something about it. "The media is a vitally important part of America," he said, particularly local papers that cover news ignored by big papers and television and radio stations.

To some experts, that sounds like a bailout, a word that resurfaced this year after the U.S. government agreed to give hundreds of billions of dollars to the automobile and financial sectors.

This has to be fought tooth and nail. This madness has to stop, now.

Jammie Wearing Fool notes the article refuses to mention the lawmaker calling for an unpopular bailout of an unpopular industry is a Democrat.

Funny how that works.

Think they'd mention this were Republicans calling for a bailout of the oil industry?


Thanks to CJ.

Posted by: Ace at 06:09 PM | Comments (189)
Post contains 256 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Quick! Start a paper so you can get the bailout $!

Posted by: eman at December 31, 2008 06:12 PM (9jESx)

2 As  if 2008 couldnt get worse

Posted by: MAJHAM at December 31, 2008 06:15 PM (Yt4WH)

3 Uh, guys, a little help please?

Posted by: Buggy Whips Unlimited at December 31, 2008 06:17 PM (GlrN/)

4

This is an old story. And the concept is so stupid nobody paid attention to when it first ran -- a few weeks before Christmas.

Unfortunately, however, that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

Posted by: Tinian at December 31, 2008 06:18 PM (Ohodx)

5 I got a woody reading this article!!!

Posted by: Pinch at December 31, 2008 06:20 PM (1V2sa)

6 So if newspapers get a bailout, is it in their best interest to report it or not to report it?

Posted by: eman at December 31, 2008 06:21 PM (9jESx)

7 Maybe they will bail out blogs next! 

There is that crazy blog money!!!

Posted by: Robert at December 31, 2008 06:23 PM (fwQ5b)

8 So the local newspaper is now a public utility?  Well, that's where J-Schools were going anyway.  Saving the world, truth to power, etc.

Maybe the founders should have stuck with just freedom of speech and not mentioned the press.  They let it get to their heads.  I love the collapse of the newspaper industry.  It couldn't have happened to a bigger bunch of pompous arrogant pricks.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 31, 2008 06:27 PM (GlrN/)

9

Hyper Inflation coming to a nation near you!  My house will be paid off in weeks! oh and top it off with a fed loan and I'm all set.

Posted by: Indian outlaw at December 31, 2008 06:31 PM (RSRH4)

10 *takes notes*

Okay, so Alexthechick, Inc. will be a multi-faceted, multi-national specializing in sub-prime mortgages, automotive manufacturing and newspaper publishing. 

Posted by: alexthechick at December 31, 2008 06:35 PM (xUOXi)

11 The papers get bailed out, I'm starting a 'local' and can guarantee I'll be bankrupt in about a week, maybe less.  I'm then gonna apply for a billion in bailout money so that I can 're-hire' my staff, pay off all my vendors and start fresh.  'Course it may be only another week before I'll need more bailout funds.  Hey!  It's only money!

Posted by: GarandFan at December 31, 2008 06:36 PM (237hA)

12 Either it's this tinfoil hat or the 10 yr scotch but 2009 sucked too.

Posted by: Indian outlaw at December 31, 2008 06:38 PM (RSRH4)

13 Happy New Year...!

Posted by: J_Gocht at December 31, 2008 06:42 PM (3ZUJz)

14

Yeah, Buggy Whips Unlimited has it right... we should have told the UAW to wait until we rescued the UBWW first.

OT - did anyone else see the other turd that floated up to the top of the punch bowl, the one about Clenis being tapped to "hold" Hillary's Senate seat?  Oh no, we don't need another Kennedy, we need another fucking Clinton!

Jesus, bailing out the MSM with taxpayers' money and turning the Senate into the House of Lords.  What the fuck is next - the Fairness Doctine I suppose.

Seriously, are the Democrats TRYING to provoke an armed uprising?

This new year is not starting out well.

Posted by: sherlock at December 31, 2008 06:53 PM (8V5Ut)

15 Arguments so far for the bailout.
For the Financial sector it was that without credit all business would suffer.
For the Big three was that they are such a large part of the business sector with many smaller vendors it could suck the rest of the economy down.

I'll guess that their worry for the News paper business it will slow down the govts ability to steal from the masses. i.e. AGW and bailout cover.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 31, 2008 06:56 PM (MOdlB)

16 I've got a bet going that the NYT gets a bailout while Obama is in office, and I fully expect to make money off of it.

Posted by: Britt at December 31, 2008 06:56 PM (ggOIi)

17 Most fucked up year in history is going to ber history in 3, 2, 1

Posted by: mrcaniac at December 31, 2008 06:57 PM (Rbulg)

18 CALLED IT!

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 31, 2008 06:57 PM (PDeVA)

19 Republicans calling for a bailout of the oil industry?

Why would the oil industry need a bailout - people actually want and pay for black goo.

Posted by: Druid at December 31, 2008 07:05 PM (mdr+B)

20 "...and someday I may ask you for a favor..." Don Vito Nicastro

Posted by: richard mcenroe at December 31, 2008 07:07 PM (DBS+D)

21 Fuck the fucking fuckers.  I say.

Posted by: LC at December 31, 2008 07:07 PM (K37tB)

22 I'm in CT. This ain't happening. The CT paper have always sucked anyway. There is no reason to save them now. Every town has the free local weekly anyway.
Is Nicastro an Italian name? If it is I am ashamed.


Posted by: Rocks at December 31, 2008 07:07 PM (7rbe9)

23 Not just no, FUCK NO.

Posted by: Unclefacts at December 31, 2008 07:08 PM (M+Vfm)

24 Happy new year, douchebags.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at December 31, 2008 07:11 PM (wgLRl)

25 Best news I have heard in 15 min.

Posted by: sickinmass at December 31, 2008 07:15 PM (1rflU)

26 um Amish? Freedom of the Press is freedom of the Printing Press- the govt cant control or shutdonw you printing press. The concept of "The Press" as an insitution didnt even exist then. What Pinch & co have pulled is equivalent to some fat chicks calling their whohillys "arms" and then running around grossing everybody out calling it the "Right to Bare Arms"

Posted by: HowardDevore at December 31, 2008 07:16 PM (0iFrh)

27
If the Republicans were smart, and they're not, they could really have some fun with this.

During the hearings, the Republicans could grill the newspaper bosses about 1) how they plan on being profitable in the future and 2) how they plan on curbing their environmental destruction from the newspapers they produce.


Posted by: Darling at December 31, 2008 07:17 PM (579IS)

28

Awww shucks. What's a few more hundred million here or there?

By the way, Ace, I think you're onto something here. Have you considered reorganizing the HQ as a bank holding company?

Posted by: Andy at December 31, 2008 07:17 PM (j7gSc)

29 23 Not just no, FUCK NO.
Posted by: Unclefacts

Banned for the F**K..did you not get the 09' meme?
AND NO BACON 4U!
Have a happy.

Posted by: sickinmass at December 31, 2008 07:19 PM (1rflU)

30

Seriously, are the Democrats TRYING to provoke an armed uprising?

Ain't happening. Democrats don't know how a gun works.

 

Posted by: ErikW at December 31, 2008 07:20 PM (hKtiw)

31
Bailing out newspapers AND the Fairness Doctrine? Is it possible?

Do the Democrats have the balls to do it?

Yes. Yes they do.

Will the Republicans do anything about it?

Nope.

Posted by: Darling at December 31, 2008 07:20 PM (579IS)

32 Frankly, having a niece and nephew living withing range of this shithead, apologies to actual shit and actual heads, I can see the powers that be in Connect-i-cut bailing out this shitty rag by raising some kind of local tax or other.
Frankly, right now I'm moron buzzed- blogging and I really am depending on my spellchecker to save my ass.
Thanks for playing along like you're interested. That was sweet.

Now where's my next new year's beer?
Oh, yeah, still in the fridge...I'm coming...

Posted by: Enter sandman at December 31, 2008 07:22 PM (zxaA2)

33 I have lived in CT all my life. I'm 44. In the past couple years I have seriously begun to think about leaving. CT just sucks all around. Just traffic and assholes now.

Posted by: Rocks at December 31, 2008 07:23 PM (7rbe9)

34
The Republicans didn't even have the balls to get Amtrak off the taxpayer's teet. They talk a good game but the truth is that the Republican party is the party beholden to lobbyists and crooks.

Posted by: Darling at December 31, 2008 07:25 PM (579IS)

35 Sickinmass,

Since my fuck came in at 11:57, my fuck was OK, right? I understand the need to watch how many times we say fuck, but fuck, that is really fucking hard.

Well fuck, my New Years resolution was to not say fuck, and I have fucking said it so many fucking times in the last fucking 20 minutes that I may as fucking well acknowledge that I am fucked in 09. Fuck.

Posted by: mrcaniac at December 31, 2008 07:25 PM (Rbulg)

36

I don't see this having any steam to get a bailout. They couldn't even muster public support for the auto industry. Plenty of newspapers around to do the same exact job of "reporting" if lots of them go out of business. The fact that the "media" that tells the people what is going on would be flat out a propaganda network if they got the bailout. Of that, there is no defending against. Sure, they are the propaganda of narccistic elect and Dems now but by getting a bailout, they can't even pretend to a single person that they are not in their back pockets, covering their dirty deeds and fuckups. I can see the immediate and loud comparison to the propaganda media of Stalin and Hitler. That is one thing they can't white wash or ignore if it were to come to pass

 

People are not accepting of this auto bullshit,peasants will storm the castle if they try it with any other business at all. Peoiple are gettingfed up with $ gping down the rat hole and being lied  to about it

Posted by: they deserve it at December 31, 2008 07:27 PM (lFi0+)

37 AND we have take-off for my next beer, number three in the last little while...
makes blogging and comments infinitely more tolerable. Ace may be on to something with this whole vodka-and-blogging-thingy...I'll have to give it some thought.
But not much cause I'm not thinking much right now.
Happy New Year , Morons~!

Posted by: Enter sandman at December 31, 2008 07:29 PM (zxaA2)

38 Shit, no BACON?

Seriously, NO BACONS?


Posted by: Unclefacts at December 31, 2008 07:31 PM (M+Vfm)

39 Fly Jesus style, it's all good!

Posted by: ErikW at December 31, 2008 07:38 PM (hKtiw)

40 Pray, let me echo the incriminating hypothesis of my trenchant colleagues and indicate to the negative, that indeed, to carry on in such a fashion would be to be as a mule that is being fucked in his own asshole by another mule.

Posted by: Dr. Manhattan at December 31, 2008 07:40 PM (hjBEe)

41

 

looks like obama's gonna be linked to the HSU ponzi scheme as well.

http://tinyurl.com/6vhk7f

Posted by: pooper at December 31, 2008 07:43 PM (wqYqf)

42 Frank Nicastro, spaghetti bender. What the fuck?

Posted by: ErikW at December 31, 2008 07:46 PM (hKtiw)

43

 

oops. forgot the cussing word count.

obama is a useless dumb cunt with oversize hippo ears and blue lips.

that is all.

Posted by: pooper at December 31, 2008 07:48 PM (wqYqf)

44 Those buttfuckers can rot in hell.

Posted by: Ginger at December 31, 2008 07:49 PM (SNFHk)

45 Now you say stop.  Now.  Or maybe earlier you said Now! and it was Thanksgiving or Christmas and I was busy and just caught on.  If so, my bad, but shit, man.  After you had to have the bailout!    Why didn't ya just go with your conservative instincts in the first place?  Was there a post about this and I missed it?  I'm just hoping....

Posted by: Lana at December 31, 2008 07:50 PM (Nf4XK)

46 Loverly

Posted by: ErikW at December 31, 2008 07:50 PM (hKtiw)

47
Lana, you're right. We compromised our core values to help McCain get elected. We became **shudder** moderates to appeal to the coveted douchebags who call themselves "independent" voters.

You know what? We'll do it again in 2012, too. And again in 2016, and so on, and so on.

Posted by: Darling at December 31, 2008 07:58 PM (579IS)

48 Church of England puts its faith in Al Gore's investment arm
The Church of England’s Church Commissioners have gone green, investing £150 million with former US Vice-President Al Gore’s environmentally minded investment firm, Generation Investment Management.

Al Gore is going to make Bernie Madoff look like an amateur before he's finished.
Talk about a Ponzi scheme.

Posted by: Rocks at December 31, 2008 08:01 PM (7rbe9)

49
btw, let me be the first, in 2009, to say to our moderate friends and our socially-liberal friends in the Republican party...

FUCK YOU.

You assholes keep driving us further and further to the Left and you're ruining the GOP.


Posted by: Darling at December 31, 2008 08:01 PM (579IS)

50 If Congress asks these assholes why they are broke, and they explain they pissed away money on a lobbyist for a bailout, can we start shooting?

Posted by: hutch1200 at December 31, 2008 08:05 PM (aowoN)

51

Not even sworn in yet and there is more dirt piled up on him than any other president. You'd have better odds of winning the Powerball Jackpot than all this happening and him not being dirty to the core. By dirt, I mean actual dirt, not the whitewash "boys will be boys" the MSM pushes once they realize people are becoming aware despite their ignring the subject.

And the hits just keep coming

Posted by: sucker! at December 31, 2008 08:05 PM (lFi0+)

52 No way can they bail out newspapers when retailers are folding left and right and lots of jobs lost and nothing is being down about that. Bailouts are only for Democrat cronies being paid kickbacks. If they did, the taxpayers would probably file a class action lawsuit against congress or charge them with embezzling by going against what their constituants want

Posted by: sucker! at December 31, 2008 08:08 PM (lFi0+)

53 Sucker! All that and we haven't even got to the sex scandals yet.
Does anybody believe a guy so vain he spends half his time in no shirt for the cameras think he is working on a harem?

Posted by: Rocks at December 31, 2008 08:09 PM (7rbe9)

54 Let's make the bailouts like a fucking Gameshow. Last place gets a fucking pistol with one bullet for themselves....You feel that strongly, go for it. Your fucking company is so important that you want my cash, put your skull on the line. Maybe they could play from guillotines?

Posted by: hutch1200 at December 31, 2008 08:10 PM (aowoN)

55 Sucker, Nice SoA reference.

Posted by: hutch1200 at December 31, 2008 08:13 PM (aowoN)

56

Govt. involvement in the U.S. press,  press working for a faction of the U.S govt.

Forgive me if I dont' see the difference, but thanks for the laugh and  the manufactured moral and ethics concern Mr. Nicastro.

Posted by: Blazer at December 31, 2008 08:15 PM (9XXMp)

57

"Let's make the bailouts like a fucking Gameshow. Last place gets a fucking pistol with one bullet for themselves....You feel that strongly, go for it. Your fucking company is so important that you want my cash, put your skull on the line. Maybe they could play from guillotines?"

 

You mean like Slaughter-rama?

http://tinyurl.com/7gxndl

Posted by: Blazer at December 31, 2008 08:22 PM (9XXMp)

58

#11

hell, it isn't even money, it's just digits on a computer screen, which to a politican means it's free, i guess

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 08:29 PM (RxUMK)

59 From last night http://ace.mu.nu/archives/280397.php Will the Senate all be getting one of these to use?
Or does everyone going for a bailout have to pick pubes after the deed necessary to guarantee a bailout? Quid pro Blow.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 31, 2008 08:32 PM (MOdlB)

60

#40

that's some really good high-class sarcasm, bravo (finger clap)

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 08:36 PM (RxUMK)

61 Agreed that this crap has to stop right now. I'm going to start hammering my reps on this one in particular. Michelle Malkin was dead on when she predicted this almost two months ago.

Posted by: bse5150 at December 31, 2008 08:37 PM (3D+A0)

62 Seperation from church, I mean, Press and state?

Posted by: hutch1200 at December 31, 2008 08:41 PM (aowoN)

63 Lana, you're right. We compromised our core values to help McCain get elected. We became **shudder** moderates to appeal to the coveted douchebags who call themselves "independent" voters.

You know what? We'll do it again in 2012, too. And again in 2016, and so on, and so on.

Darling, wow.  Not what I said, but thanks for playing.  I said what the HELL with the bailout which doesn't, mind you, have shit all to do with McCain, the election, and your **shudder** moderates.  Bush and the congress did that.  Did Obama and McCain clap along?  You betcha.

And McCain bringing the country along with his moderation?  He really got that done, didn't he?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but who is going to be the next president of these United States?  Oh, right. It isn't Mr. Bailout Moderate, is it?  You are indeed correct that Republicans will probably do it again in 2012, and 2016.  The lesson?  Don't fight the Dems on their own turf.  They will always be willing to promise much, much more that they can't deliver.  Let 'em fall on their faces. 

Additionally, conservatism and the nation as we know it, is done unless we take back the schools.  Fat chance.  My guess is there is no hope and we're doomed.  2008 was the Obama tipping point.  The Republic is over except for the weeping. 

Posted by: Lana at December 31, 2008 08:54 PM (Nf4XK)

64

these bailouts are poison for our economy, there is no way to stop market forces, it's been tried and failed, the markets will correct themselves sooner or later, the game the Gov. is playing right now is a losing game, all they have done is recklessly expanded the money supply in order to stop a market correction (housing bubble) it can't be stopped, home values will keep falling until ppl in general decide that the home they want to buy is a good deal, then ppl will start buying houses again, unfortunately the worthless money that the Gov. has injected in the system will adjust itself to the available goods and services, which means, at some point, prices on everything will rise and they will keep rising until an equalibirum is reached between the the supply of currency and the supply of goods and services, the catch is, you and I will be (hopefully) working the same jobs for the same pay, and this is why i would gladly put a bullet in the head of every pol. that voted for the bailouts (not that i ever would, but it's nice to dream)

 

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 08:56 PM (RxUMK)

65 We can't say "fuck" on AoS anymore?????

Please tell me you're fucking kidding.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 31, 2008 09:00 PM (MKNSy)

66 in the other words, the Gov. hasn't just saved us from a depression, they just created one.

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 09:00 PM (RxUMK)

67 The bailout genie is out of the bottle. There's no stopping the Dems now, they see Chicago Jesus' election as a mandate to go for it all. Everything. Bailing out the NYTimes, cats and dogs living together: mass hysteria.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 31, 2008 09:09 PM (KOkrW)

68

oh- and fuckety fuck fuck.

Happy fucking New Year. I predict it will suck. The suckage will increase at an exponential rate after 1/20/09. This runaway suckage will eventually create a Black Hole of Suck.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 31, 2008 09:14 PM (KOkrW)

69 Shame on all of you!.  This is so obvious...  We've known for 10 months now that the Gov't was going to battle the collapse of the economy by just printing as much fiat as it took to re-inflate the bubble. Unfortunately the Treasury now has to sub-contract anyone with a printing-press to keep up now.

And for those of you concerned that a newspaper's objectivity might be compromised if they take a Gov't subsidy, where the fuck have you been already?  The only reason they've survived as long as they have in the Internet Age is because of the gross advertising of realty-whores and car dealerships.  Not just an ad, but entire sections of newspapers were dedicated to the credit lifestyl propaganda. And they were paid nicely for it.  The reason they are in the bailout line right now is because the credit-pimps can no longer afford the blood-money.


Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 31, 2008 09:16 PM (q58ZD)

70

"oh- and fuckety fuck fuck.

Happy fucking New Year. I predict it will suck. The suckage will increase at an exponential rate after 1/20/09. This runaway suckage will eventually create a Black Hole of Suck."


Oh well, at least we can look forward to 2012, the end of the Mayan calendar and the ushering in of our overlord C'htulu.

Speaking of black holes what's the status of that black hole machine over in Switzerland? I thought we were all supposed to be exponentially squeezed together and sipping margarita's inside of a singularity by now?


Posted by: Blazer at December 31, 2008 09:25 PM (+FzLa)

71 the Clintons are going to drop the ball, haven't they both already been there, done that?

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 09:38 PM (RxUMK)

72 Poor Republicans.

Sung  to a famous righteous brothers tune:
You've lost that winning feeling, woahhhhhhh that winning feeling.
You've lost that winning feeling
Now its gone, gone gone waahh waaaah etc.

Posted by: Brian at December 31, 2008 09:38 PM (YrCzB)

73 72:

Lucky for us Republicans, the public has a VERY short attention span.  Obama gets handed a bucket of shit in three weeks, and the unwashed masses that elected him will blame him for that same bucket of shit 3 months later.




Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 31, 2008 09:44 PM (q58ZD)

74 good lord, i am coming to hate the word Republican, i haven't called myself a republican for years, i am a conservative, and btw if that fool Huckabee tries to sell himself as a conservative next election things are gonna get ugly.. 

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 09:46 PM (RxUMK)

75

the current party leadership would love a guy like Huckaboob, stealth RINO that he is...

 

Posted by: shoey at December 31, 2008 09:55 PM (RxUMK)

76 How many times do I have to hit the print button on this here thingy to be considered a newspaper in need of a bailout?. I'm almost out of ink, paper and brains. Qualified for $$$, no?

Posted by: hutch1200 at December 31, 2008 10:04 PM (aowoN)

77

Blazer,

They turned on the super collider, and were just getting to the part where they smash atoms and create the runaway black hole that was going to devour our planet, when a couple of wires between two huge magnets melted and they shut the monster down. It'll be outta whack for months.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 31, 2008 10:40 PM (KOkrW)

78

"Funny how that works."

What's really funny is how both parties get involved with businesses; but the ones Republicans support tend to be successful and don't need bailouts, while the ones Democrats support tank horribly and need them up the yin-yang. Granted, not always the case, but still...

Posted by: SpideyTerry at December 31, 2008 10:58 PM (XSC18)

79 Oh well, at least we can look forward to 2012, the end of the Mayan calendar and the ushering in of our overlord C'htulu Sarah Palin.

Fixed it for ya.

Posted by: Palins a hick at December 31, 2008 11:01 PM (6rQXk)

80 79 was me. Damn sockpuppetry.

Posted by: Jim62sch at December 31, 2008 11:01 PM (6rQXk)

81

"Blazer,

They turned on the super collider, and were just getting to the part where they smash atoms and create the runaway black hole that was going to devour our planet, when a couple of wires between two huge magnets melted and they shut the monster down. It'll be outta whack for months."


But yet on paper they claim that baby is safe and in no way would cause a calamity to the planet or mankind but yet can't prevent a couple of wires malfunctioning and blasting a whole in the tunnel and leaking precious amounts of super-cooled helium into the environment.

That thing is gonna be the butt-fucker of mankind, I know it.

Posted by: Blazer at December 31, 2008 11:04 PM (+FzLa)

82 Hey, Blazer, I hope the thing creates a black hole and eats planet Earth. Fuck, I want to go quick. That way I don't have to give a shit about Obama's gun control, hyperinflation, the fact the job I was getting hired for and getting out of the Army for went away, or any of my other problems. Mass suicide for the world. I don't even want to see it coming, we all go at the speed of light.

I didn't drink at all tonight. There's nights I shouldn't drink and this was one.

Posted by: SGT Dan at December 31, 2008 11:57 PM (Pb41/)

83

Ace, all affection, but you're a fucking retard. No, seriously. Where, exactly, did you think bailout mania was going to lead when you were fiercely advocating it a few months ago?

Of course every industry under the sky is now going to claim their role in America/government/heaven is the most important played since Thomas Aquinas. It's what businesses will do once they smell taxpayer dollars in the water.

But, oh no. Super conservatives like you and others had to tell us that X industry was super important and just had to be saved by trillions of our dollars. No, but for super serious.

This is the part of the story where bloggers are revealed for the retards they are. Where we realized "Wait a bit, you only pretend to know what the fuck is going on, but none of you really do."

The blogosphere is nice and all, but all of it lost credibility the very split second actual financial decisions had to be made. At this point, bloggers, right and left, are being exposed as the know-nothings they suspected themselves to be, but would never dare admit outside of humor.

Could you at least stop pretending you have clue one about financial bailout matters? You're a highly intelligent guy. It's why I read you. But you do not get this. Neither do most bloggers. But you and others continually pretend you do, and now here we are.

It's like an army of friggin Hoovers.

"Gee, the media want a bailout. Isn't that funny?!"

Funny? Are you kidding me? After the trillions you sucked cock to cover for? Are you serious?

Jesus H. Pretend with the integrity bit. For everyone's sanity.

Posted by: Robbie at January 01, 2009 12:26 AM (zBJRo)

84

I kind of apologize for my harsh tone, but I work in finance. Knowing what goes on with other peoples' money is my life. I've been watching all of this since July or so and ended up getting angrier and angrier because no one commenting seems to actually have even a passing acquaintance with how financial matters actually work.

I like you, Ace, I do. But this isn't a joke anymore. You and others shoved for this sort of thing. You allowed yourself to be panicked into paying for everything. And now, isn't it just ha ha funny.

No. It's not. It's really, really not. But it never stopped you from being an ignorant smart ass. Not that it's your fault. The entire blogosphere seemed like it could sarcasm its way out of being remotely serious about the clusterfuck that was about to hit.

Just, not useful, and a major hit in blogger credibilty.

Posted by: Robbie at January 01, 2009 12:32 AM (zBJRo)

85

One more, just to tide my anger. You can joke about some side story that sesms humorous.

But what you can't joke about, is how you and your co-bloggers (outside of the ever intelligent Gabe) agitated for a course of action and policy that was hilariously disasterous.

"The media wants bailout dollars. Funny, no?"

Yeah. Funny. This funny brought to you by the assholes who freaked out and begged for the trillions currently tanking our economy. But some obscure, pointless, unimportant newspapers want money! Ha ha ! Funny!

Funny! Brought to you by the internet peoples with no apparent stake in the economy.

Seriously. You should be on your knees begging for forgiveness for how horrifying wrong you were on these bailout issues. But you thin making a few posts about liberals wanting money will cover your ass. Nice.

Ok, now I hope I'm done. Sorry, but the cavalier attitude of various posts over the past few months have just pissed me off, and this is the breaking point. Newspapers want money! Like you had nothing to fucking do with it. Way to not recognize your own role in this shit.

Posted by: Robbie at January 01, 2009 12:45 AM (zBJRo)

86 Ate like there was no tomorrow, but if there is, i'll be too big to fail. I might need a bailout.

Posted by: Modgi at January 01, 2009 01:57 AM (atJ/J)

87 robbie, you pretentious prick. Take a midol bitch. Wash it down with whatever kool aid you're drinking and chill the fuck out. It's a media and people like you created crisis we're experiencing. Things have changed since the great depression and that will never happen again. AOSHQ wakes minds, no more, no less.

Posted by: Modgi at January 01, 2009 02:11 AM (atJ/J)

88 f it, shut down the internets.

Posted by: Robbie at January 01, 2009 02:15 AM (atJ/J)

89 I lived in Bristol, CT all my life before joining the army (only about 4 years ago) and I can tell you the Bristol Press has been going down the tubes for many years now.  Since as far back as I can remember people have called it the "Bristol Distress" because of it's many financial troubles.  I don't remember it being a particularly offensive liberal paper (no more than any other in CT anyway) but they used to badly take advantage of the boys they had delivering it everyday (I was a Bristol Press deliveryboy myself for a couple years).

A maybe interesting sidenote is that the Frank Nicastro mentioned in this article was until recently the mayor of Bristol.  I'm not sure when he stopped being mayor and started beong a state representative, but as of when I left Bristol only a few short years ago he was still mayor (and hed been for a very long time), so I suspect he probably has many "friends" at the Bristol Press.

The article may not tell you but, yes, Frank Nicastro is defintely a democrat.

Posted by: Nick at January 01, 2009 02:29 AM (iL7SJ)

90 Markie Marxist sez:  "Normally we Marxists try to nationalize everything we possibly can, but I don't know if we should nationalize the New York Times.  I mean, they already function as communists and we're not even paying them!  Since we're already getting the milk for free, why should we bother to buy the cow?"

Posted by: Chas at January 01, 2009 02:30 AM (1XTjz)

91 Everybody's talking about how "the voters" will never stand for this, but the voters just elected Barack God-Help-Us Obama.

The question is, what can we do about it?  Pester our Congressmen?  Start stockpiling fertilizer?

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 01, 2009 03:07 AM (lhQzd)

92 Look, even if the govt. does bailout the press it won't really matter - people aren't reading the damn product anyway.  There's a reason major newspapers are in very poor financial shape - no customers.

Posted by: Ken at January 01, 2009 03:11 AM (2mbxe)

93 Oh, and Robbie?  What the hell does Ace have to do with the bailout?  Democrats in Congress don't read moronblogs like this.  Ace's influence on the bailout was precisely 0.00.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 01, 2009 03:14 AM (lhQzd)

94 Where were you at the time, Robbie, with your fucking Great Financial Genius?
Bite me.
I opposed the bailout, too.  Let it fall and build it up again.  I'm willing to take the hit the same way I'm willing to take chemo to fight cancer.  Sucks but what's the alternative?  I saw this coming and dumped most of my portfolio into a bear fund.  I'm down just over 3% since 2000.  How have you done, Mr "I work in finance"...?
I own a GM car and I say Chapter 11, baby, that's what it's for.  Screw the UAW.  They can take their "no compromise" to the same place any business can take prices the market will not pay--to bankruptcy.  If that means I can't get parts for my Saturn, well, it's not all about me, after all.  A solid economy is worth more to me than a car, in the long run.
As for the Republicans...I don't know what they are any more but I wish they'd hurry up and merge with the Democrats so we could create a real conservative party.
More gin and tonic!  Happy New Year of the Ox--ride it, cowboy!

Posted by: Flubber at January 01, 2009 03:29 AM (xZFAP)

95 Freedom of the press! If they have the freedom to twist the news to fit their liberal agenda. They are free to go belly up. They are reaping what they sow.

Posted by: John Gallagher at January 01, 2009 03:43 AM (wBe72)

96 Well said flubber. For a valu-rite drinkin hobo cappin cheney huggin fuk u a-hole I love America type of moron, you're ok.

Posted by: Modgi at January 01, 2009 03:59 AM (atJ/J)

97

As for the Republicans...I don't know what they are any more but I wish they'd hurry up and merge with the Democrats so we could create a real conservative party.

When are we gonna start a real conservative party?     I'm ready.......  I expect if we start something, the Repubs will look at the loss of donations, and tell us they are moving back to center (I know, if wishes were BMW's ...)

Susan Lee

Posted by: Susan Lee at January 01, 2009 04:22 AM (dgJYa)

98

I think Robbie is right.  I remember Ace claiming that it's too new, and he's not a native expert at this bailout shit, but he had good reliable inside knowledge, and this needed to happen.

I think that it would do Ace's credibility a lot of good to make a post that explains the whole thing, takes responsibility for jumping in the wrong direction, and then we move on forever.  And by explain the whole thing, I mean naming names of the people that he trusted to be 'expert' at this, so we can ignore those folks forever more if they start the same kind of bullshit again.  Sources that become unreliable are not worth while.  I for one, would like to know where that stuff comes from, and that Ace knows that he will not be fooled again by said people.

I have a serious man crush on this site.  First stop always, and it never fails to deliver a good message with high entertainment value and a true conservative flavor.  And the commentors here are by far the best I've ever seen.  Morons, take a bow.  And Happy new year and all of that fuckity fucking jolly good cheery stuff.

Posted by: Mephitis at January 01, 2009 04:24 AM (D4as+)

99 Newspapers aren't special. Recessions arise because resources are improperly utilized. Newspapers are a textbook example of poorly utilized resources, hence we should not be surprised to see them in trouble now that we have a recession. I love hearing this argument that the real value of newspapers, the one that can't be replicated by the blogs, is the local news coverage. Things like reporting school board and city council meetings. Fine, I'll buy that. But my problem with is that it just proves that newspapers poorly utilize their resources. Why is it that a newspaper, with the supposedly essential function of reporting local proceedings and other important information, comes to my doorstep every day wrapped up in the size and shape of a Virginia ham? Because newspapers are trying to hang on to all the other stuff that can be done better by the blogs/internet. AP wire stories, of which newspapers have tons each day? Saw it 12-24 hours ago on the internet. Opinion pieces? Usually done better by bloggers. Don't even start trying to wade into the other useless shit... wedding announcements, home and garden, autos. It's all filler, often not timely, and usually syndicated. That Mulshine guy in the WSJ was right about the newspaper being the best medium for local reporting. But let's not kid ourselves, we know the papers will fight tooth and nail to avoid this focus. They are bloated with a lot of people who draw nice salaries, and are willing to use their ink to alert everyone to their terrible plight (and to eventually go all-in for a bailout). A new way of doing business means cuts, and the "deciders" can't accept the fact that they may need to sacrifice jobs and influence. The solution for newspapers is to eliminate the bullshit and, if necessary, move away from the daily print. Shining the light on local government, in most locales, does not require a daily paper. If we say no to the newspapers, I am confident they will survive in a new and better form. Any bailout will just subsidize a poor model, just like in any other industry.

Posted by: bunny boy at January 01, 2009 04:33 AM (YsSn7)

100

83,84,85 Robbie is right,ace was practically screaming at us morons who opposed the bailouts.He also said that opinion on this site was running 100-1 against the bailout but he was willing to lose readership over this because he felt so strongly about it.Don't believe me,go to the archives and see what I'm talking about.

I'm not trying to be a prick about this but if you did'nt see this coming(newspapers are just the next phase,it won't stop there)then I question your conservative credentials.Government(Repub or Dem)IS the fucking problem,but they are definatelly NOT the solution.There is no stopping this now.The sharks are in the water and they smell blood.

Repubs have no cover as thier asshole president is the one who started all this bailout shit.Dems love it because it allows them to rescue all thier big time donors,ie:unions,newspapers etc.,and point the finger at a Repub administration.

The inmates are running the asylum.

Posted by: vae victus at January 01, 2009 04:46 AM (oi4Yx)

101

A poll done by a Hartford AM radio station shows that 90% are against this.

 

Posted by: scott at January 01, 2009 04:56 AM (XWJh5)

102

Dems love it because it allows them to rescue all thier big time donors,ie:unions,newspapers etc.,and point the finger at a Repub administration.

"Dems blah blah blah etc.,and point the finger at a Repub administration."

This is the Core Competency of the Democratic Party.  They don't really need Hope and Change - they've already arrived... what politicians have ever managed to blame their opponents for the weather?!.  Until the MSM is tits-up, they will only get better at it.

Posted by: sherlock at January 01, 2009 05:23 AM (8V5Ut)

103 I agree with Robbie's general thrust, but yeah he went too far.  I got so frustrated with Ace, but it was most of the other blogs as well.  The thing that irritates me is that these blogs are always preaching to others about accountability.  Well Ace, you truly, truly messed up.  Now is the time to cinch up your jock strap and admit your mistake.

To start it off, I'll admit mine.  I have never been much of a poster in the comments, mostly just reading the site and passively enjoying the posts.  So it is hypocritical of me to all of the sudden get on my high horse, when I should have posted my objections at the time.  My bad, and I'll own it.

Over to you Ace.


Posted by: oLD Guy at January 01, 2009 05:30 AM (2+hEf)

104

Google news search for "Frank Nicastro" = 23 results

Google news search for "Frank Nicastro Democrat" = 5 results

Posted by: DeaconJones at January 01, 2009 06:06 AM (cEPpG)

105

Breaking News: 1 January, 2009. Connecticut AP...............................

Local newspaper to recieve government bailout money.  Newpaper has changed its name to the "PRAVDA" film at eleven........

Posted by: Sparky at January 01, 2009 06:52 AM (J1f2W)

106 26 um Amish? Freedom of the Press is freedom of the Printing Press- the govt cant control or shutdonw you printing press. The concept of "The Press" as an insitution didnt even exist then.

This is an interesting Constitutional question.  The Supreme Court has decided (wholly without actual text to back them up) that the first amendment gives a right to "Freedom of Expression".  But, in fact, the Founders wrote in two specific forms of expression: Speaking and writing/publishing.

So, if "Freedom of Speech" embraces a larger "Freedom of Expression" then it also embraces "Freedom of the Press" making that phrase unnecessary.

But if "Freedom of the Press" is a necessary phrase, then there is no "Freedom of Expression".

Is that too much logic for law school?

Posted by: AmishDude at January 01, 2009 06:52 AM (GlrN/)

107 Ace: Tell them all to fuck off. You don't owe anybody anything. You formed an opinion based on the facts you had at the time. The manboobs assume that no bailout would have had a better result. There is nothing to support this. Some guy proposes a bail out of a newspaper and you all assume it is going to happen. Get real.

Posted by: A Plover In Every Pot! at January 01, 2009 07:04 AM (dxwRh)

108 How can a "newspaper bailout" NOT be a violation of the 1st amendment? For some reason I tend to think a "church bailout" wouldn't receive the same kind of coverage...

Posted by: 18-1 at January 01, 2009 07:12 AM (odYmd)

109 The 1rst Amend. sez the gov. shall not infringe on the press. Giving money to the newspapers is hardly an infringement.

Posted by: A Plover In Every Pot! at January 01, 2009 07:17 AM (dxwRh)

110

Plover,not asking for an apology.Don't think he owes one to anybody either.

"The manboobs assume that no bailout would have had a better result."

Well,first off,it would be a lot easier to tell all these other assholes who are lining up for a bailout to fuck off and die.But we did'nt do that.What we did is open the floodgates to an endless flow of "wheres my bailout,dude"as people realise that thier business is about to go belly-up.

I believe the whining is only beginning. After the big cities and inept state governments get thiers,the construction industries will be right behind.How do you let one industry die after you rescue the other one?Politicians will have too pick and choose,and we all know those fucking cowards will always take the easy way out.In other words ,we are fucked.

Posted by: vae victus at January 01, 2009 08:01 AM (oi4Yx)

111

i had to search the ct gov website to find out who this douche nozzle is...state controlled media, gps tracking, mass indoctrination, crushing taxes and more and more limits on our on speech "rights"....fucking super.

2009 is going to be great.

Posted by: e.koenig at January 01, 2009 08:06 AM (2J+Vs)

112 I love this site, I like Ace and i like almost all of my fellow morons, but i do agree with Robbie for the most part, i was here and remember the frustration i felt knowing what was going to happen and not being able to do anything about it, knowing that even ppl i thought are very intelligent were shutting their brains off out of panic and fear, but getting all up in Ace's grill isn't going to solve anything, just gentley remind them that fear is the killer of intellect.   

Posted by: shoey at January 01, 2009 08:21 AM (RxUMK)

113

I truly believe that no democracy can remain healthy without an equally healthy press," said Fiedler

I agree totally, but we haven't had a "healthy press" for thirty years.  Let Pinch and the rest get a dose of reality while the WSJ still does fine.

Posted by: 7HEAVENS at January 01, 2009 09:08 AM (/CPVk)

114 Though it's proven impossible to stifle this idea that anybody wants to bail out The Bristol Press, I'll try again to say it ain't happening. If you want to know what's really on the table and to get the facts about it, please see bristoltoday.com.

Posted by: Steve Collins at January 01, 2009 09:08 AM (oKzlk)

115 Well, well, Robbie, you semi-anonymous piece of shit...

You're THE Financial Wizard,right? Okay, let's suppose, just suppose, you're not talking out of your typing ass, as do so many others here in the "blogosphere". Do you know what PRECIPITATED this whole bailout debachle, which ACE, along with some others like Krauthammer, Gingrich, North, Barnes, and some other political and financial notables got caught up in?

Methinks ye don't have a damn clue. So, here's a clue for you:
 At the end of the summer, 2008, the Federal Reserve System, specifically the New York City Branch, which is the HQ for that system, bought back over a TRILLION dollars of hard dollar currency from the world markets.
A Trillion...$ 1,000,000,000,000 out of the markets. Thereby reducing the amount of tangible dollar units available for deposit, withdrawal or any other PHYSICAL financial transaction.
That simple, preordained and coordinated act shrank the credit pools almost immediately, slowing commerce, shrinking everyone and their GDP and making lending harder. The psychological  effect was even greater of not having enough available cash on hand.
Then the Fed had the answer that it was to head off inflation.
But it was not then and never was meant for that.
And the selfsame banks that got the Trillion in new Fed deposits just happen to be the same banks that own the stock in the Fed system, stock you and I cannot buy, and are the same banks that got the TARP money that did not go to buy toxic assets and instead went to the same banks that withdrew their funds from the greater market during the summer. And THEY got bailed out, effectivley getting $2 trillion dollars for grinding the US and world markets to a halt.
And thus, the bail-outs began. Only they are not bailing anything out and the same banks that precipitated the false crisis, kinda like global warming, are the same banks that got the bailout money. A perfect circle.
Shepherded their way by none other than Emperor Palpatine Paulson, he of the Goldman Sachs Banking Scam,Inc. and itself, Goldman Sachs, one of the stockholders in the Fed, and a primary recipient of the governmental largess that was the TARP act, and instead is the greatest slush fund in history.

Ace got caught out, and so did you, I bet, and me, well I just happen to know some people who hate the Fed and saw this coming. I covered my ass and actually made money this year.
Go figure.

Sandman.

Posted by: Enter sandman at January 01, 2009 09:19 AM (zxaA2)

116

Whoever bails out the Times ought to have naming rights to Times Square, no?

"TARP Square" maybe?

Posted by: FireHorse at January 01, 2009 09:38 AM (5KNeJ)

117 Well, well, Robbie, you semi-anonymous piece of shit...

And so the hate continues.  There is nothing awful with being wrong, we all do it.  It is perfectly understandable, especially in a time of fear and panic.  But all Ace and the other blogs have to do is put up a single post saying "Oops."  He was flatout wrong.  He keeps getting beat up because he keeps avoiding it and that reflects poorly on him. 

Also, how does your diatribe, which sounds quite interesting have anything to do with Robbie?  Why are you unloading on him with this truckload of excrement?  Disagreeing with you does not make someone evil.  Please take a spoonful of GrowUp.

Posted by: oLD Guy at January 01, 2009 09:42 AM (2+hEf)

118 HEY DONOTHING CONGRESS DOOFUSHEADS HOW ABOUT SOME BAILOUT FOR OUT BELIGERD FARMERS SUFFERING FROM THE DEMANDS OF STUPID ECO-FREAKS STUPID IDEAS

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at January 01, 2009 10:05 AM (aYhmo)

119

And so the hate continues.  There is nothing awful with being wrong, we all do it.  It is perfectly understandable, especially in a time of fear and panic.  But all Ace and the other blogs have to do is put up a single post saying "Oops."  He was flatout wrong.  He keeps getting beat up because he keeps avoiding it and that reflects poorly on him. 

Really?  Prove it.  You have absolutely no idea what would have happened had not the US gov't along with the govt's of every other free market country stepped in to prevent the entire worldwide financial system from going down the drain.  None.  And yet you assert that Ace or anyone who advocated preventing disaster owes an apology?

It is amazing that some people still can't grasp that the financial industry is fundamentally different from any other industry such as the newspaper industry.  When a newspaper goes out of business it is a tragedy for the people who work for the paper.  When the financial system goes down, the country goes down and given our interdependent financial system, much of the world would have gone with it.  That's a recipe for poverty, famine and even war on an international scale.

 

While the risk of a total systemic financial meltdown has been reduced by the actions of the G-7 and other economies to backstop their financial systems, severe vulnerabilities remain

Nouriel Roubini is Professor of Economics at the Stern School of Business, New York University and Chairman of RGE Monitor

You think he might know just a little bit about economics?  Go read the whole article at Politico.  This site won't let me link it.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 01, 2009 10:11 AM (VW9/y)

120 JackStraw:
Really?  Prove it.


An hypothesis was made.  Observations then confirmed the hypothesis.  My grade school teacher would call that science. (Observational science like astronomy, not experimental science like physics.)

You think he might know just a little bit about economics?

Appeal to Authority is a poor substitute for reason.

 Paulson knows a lot of economics too, should we just blindly follow him with no critiques allowed because he might know just a little bit about economics?  Universities are filled with Kenysians who could make the claim to know just a little bit about economics.  Should you and I blindly follow them as well?

A lot of people laid out this scenario before it even happened with a stunning amount of precision.  You were not one of them.  Not everyone gets to be the hero.  I wasn't a hero either, I should have said something and I didn't.  Robbie, Sandman and you need to stop hyperventilating.  What is so terrible about admitting you were wrong?  I'm sure you're a terrific fellow in real life, the pride of your mom and a real swain with the ladies.

Look JackStraw, I've read a lot of your comments.  I like them.  I don't post much because I am neither as smart or as witty as most of the people here.  But that doesn't change the fact that you were wrong, and wrong when it really counted, when it was really important. 

Posted by: oLD Guy at January 01, 2009 10:38 AM (2+hEf)

121

Look JackStraw, I've read a lot of your comments.  I like them.  I don't post much because I am neither as smart or as witty as most of the people here.  But that doesn't change the fact that you were wrong, and wrong when it really counted, when it was really important. 

And yet, you still offer no proof that the backstopping of the financial industry hasn't worked.  The point of the bailout wasn't to return the economy to a vibrant state of growth, it was to prevent a complete financial metldown.  By any measure, it has.  LIBOR has fallen back to somewhat normal ranges, bank lending is beginning to thaw slowly, credit is available albeit only to credit worthy people (shocking concept, that)...

If you go back and read all the treads on this topic I defy you to find one time when anyone, me included, said that we wouldn't be going into a deep recession. That was a given bailout or no bailout.  I also don't think you will find anyone who was enthusiastic about it, me included.  The only question was do we try to take steps to avoid a finacial catastrophe which nobody denied was months, maybe weeks away.  The leaders of every single G-7 country agree that something had to be tried. 

It's going to take time to recover from this recession.  We won't know for some time, maybe years, how effective the steps that Paulson and his team have been or what effect the remaining steps he might take will have.  People are still arguing over the steps that were taken during the Great Depression and how effective they were. I'm sure there are plenty of steps his team has taken that none of us will like.  I never claimed he was omnipotent or that everything would be perfect.

It's easy to say you were against the bailout.  In a perfect world, who wouldn't be?  But we don't live in a perfect world and if nothing had been done there is every reason to believe things would be much, much worse.than they are now.  We would have had major banks failures, the credit market would have disappeared altogether, buisnesses of all sizes that rely on credit to exist would have closed, house prices would have crashed further and harder than they have with no mortgage market and on and on.  And you would have seen government intervention on a scale that makes what has been done look trivial.  Is that what you wanted?  Because that's what would have happened had nothing been done and ignoring that is while asserting the bailout is a failure is silly.

You can keep asserting that I and others who advocated for the bailout of the financial system were wrong but it would help your case if you provided some facts, call them appeals to authority if you like.  But just claiming that the bailout was a failure without any evidence or considering the consequences of doing nothing is meaningless.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 01, 2009 11:21 AM (VW9/y)

122 And yet, you still offer no proof that the backstopping of the financial industry hasn't worked.

You misunderstand the question, so this leads you to misunderstand the answer.

The claim wasn't that giving free money would not shore up the financial institutions.  Of course it would.  Giving free money to a hobo would shore up the hobo.  The claim was that by doing so, you end up destroying the free market in the long run.  It was always a tradeoff between short term pain and long term destruction.  You gave into fear, avoided the pain and now we will all stand around and watch as the principles we hold dear are sold for a few pieces of silver.


This is only the beginning.  Money and power are narcotics and we just gave them (the govt and corps)  a trillion dollar rush.  Do you honestly believe that this will be enough for them, that they'll get straight?  Can you look anyone in the eye and say that it will end with just the banks.  Have you not been reading this site?

Next time think before you advocate for a command economy.

Posted by: oLD Guy at January 01, 2009 12:10 PM (2+hEf)

123  The point of the bailout wasn't to return the economy to a vibrant state of growth, it was to prevent a complete financial metldown.  By any measure, it has.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 01, 2009 12:29 PM (rWvvO)

124 Also, you're missing the point of opposition to the bailout. Few argued that the bailout was certain to fail to prevent meltdown (although I and many others argued that the TARP wasn't addressing the right problems--FYI, Paulson apparently later agreed when he abandoned the original TARP plan).

The positive effects of the bailout were patent: these particular banks and institutions get to survive for another few quarters and, if the sky-is-falling folks are to be believed, the financial services industry will not collapse.

The point of opposition was that the negative effects of the bailout would outweigh the positive effects and the negative effects of failing to act. In other words, we denied Paulson's premise that a Second Great Depression would be upon us if Congress didn't act and emphasized the negative effects of the bailout: partial state ownership of financial institutions, the loss of taxpayer money (coincident with bashing the fallacious arguments that taxpayers would make money on the deal), opening the barn door for endless bailouts, etc.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 01, 2009 12:39 PM (rWvvO)

125

Next time think before you advocate for a command economy.

Perhaps you should do the same.  Or are you going to continue to ignore the very obvious fact that had the financial system collapsed, the federal government would have stepped in and completely taken over?  Or do you think someone would have magically pulled a new financial system out of their ass?  There would not have been a long run to destroy.  Do you get that?  What exactly do you think Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al would have done with an opportunity to remake our economy, central planning style?  Don't be naive.

Who cares that more industries asked for a bailout?  They are constantly looking for funding, overtly or covertly, from the government.  That doesn't mean it should be given to them and if you have been reading this site you will know that I have never, not once, advocated the government giving bailout money to any other industry or institution.  By your logic, we should never advocate the government declaring war because that will mean we will go to war with everyone we don't like.  This was a crisis unlike any other and you can insist it wasn't but you are wrong.

If you truly are an old guy, then you know doubt remember the government bailing out the S&L industry a few years back.  Does the government run the S&L industry today?  No. Did the taxpayers make money on the investment? Yes.  Did it cause the end of the free market?  Not so much.

The Treasury put out a report yesterday detailing the steps that have been taken so far including the progress so far (you might be surprised to know that less than half of the money has actually reached the banks so far, a tad early to call it a failure, don't you think?  Kind of like Harry Reid calling the surge a failure before the troops even deployed) the warrants and other methods for taxpayer repayment ( you do realize the plan is for the money to be repaid and not just given away, right?) and the outlook going forward.  Maybe you should give it a read.

I don't like bailouts anymore than you.  I pay a shitload of taxes and that's not what I want my tax dollars spent on all things being equal.  But you know what I like less?  A collapse of the free market system with a far left president and a far left congress about to take over.  If anything, those of us who advocated for an investment in the financial industry were on the right side of less government intervention in the long run.  You're welcome.

 

Posted by: JackStraw at January 01, 2009 12:45 PM (VW9/y)

126

Watching the Rose Bowl sponsored by Citi.  Yeah, how much of the bailout is going to produce this game?  Quick, anyone on USC, spell CAT. 

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at January 01, 2009 01:09 PM (KCs9s)

127

Also, you're missing the point of opposition to the bailout. Few argued that the bailout was certain to fail to prevent meltdown (although I and many others argued that the TARP wasn't addressing the right problems--FYI, Paulson apparently later agreed when he abandoned the original TARP plan).

Bullshit.  I was here for the same arguments you were. Many, many, MANY argued that the bailout would never work.  Perhaps you should read the report issued by the Treasury as well.  The focus of the bailout changed because the problem changed.  TARP was a compromise if you remember, originally Bush asked for what many disparingly called a blank check precisely because the problem was constantly mutating.  Paulson and Bernanke knew this and wanted flexibility but they were forced to write a specific plan by Congress in order to get the money.  They promptly went about doing what they thought was correct after getting the money.

It wasn't just Paulson's assertion, Gabe.  It was the opinion of virtually every serious economist around the world.  Do you not remember the emergency meeting of the G-7 to address this very problem on worldwide scale?  Do you think you know more than the economic leaders of the industrial world?  Really?  Well I don't. 

How the hell do you know taxpayers won't make money on the deal?  Read the report and see what we are getting for our investment.  The terms are better than any investor in the world could get.  There is an excellent chance that the investment will pay off nicely.

But the bigger issue that most of you anti-bailout hardliners never deal with is what is your plan?  What was the alternative?  Let's pretend for a second that you are wrong and the almost unanimous opinion of senior economist was correct and that baring intervention, we were headed for an almost unprecedented worldwide financial collapse.  How would you propose that gets fixed?  Do you think the federal government wouldn't have stepped in ways that would make your head spin?  Do you know what happened last time we had a depression of that scale?   There is only one entity large enough and wealthy enough to save the financial industry, the federal government.  The only choice was a bailout before the collapse or governemnt takover after the collapse.  Tell me again how your way leads to less government intervention and a lower cost to the taxpayer?

I will repeat, I don't know anyone who was enthusiastic about this bailout.  I wasn't enthusiastic about it.  But I supported it because doing nothing was tantamount to ruining our entire economy along with much of the free world and would have led to massive government intervention.  You can pretend this wouldn't have been the case but history is against you.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 01, 2009 01:31 PM (VW9/y)

128 Gabriel, first you assert a post hoc causal fallacy over, "The point of the bailout wasn't to return the economy to a vibrant state of growth, it was to prevent a complete financial metldown.  By any measure, it has.", then you immediately call the causality "patent":  "The positive effects of the bailout were patent: these particular banks and institutions get to survive for another few quarters and, if the sky-is-falling folks are to be believed, the financial services industry will not collapse."

Which is it?

Posted by: counter at January 01, 2009 01:41 PM (0xhgx)

129 Here ya go, Jack, and all the rest who seem determined to move the goalposts and misinterpret Robbie, OldGuy and others' responses.  It's short, sweet and to the point (don't worry, it points to Slate):

http://tinyurl.com/9b6c46

Hope that clears up the situation since nothing else seems to at this point...

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at January 01, 2009 07:54 PM (YYanS)

130

C'mon Conservatives: "WE'RE MAD AS HELL AND WE'RE NOT

GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!".......oh. we're not that mad?

......sorry for my post.................

Posted by: grzzly bare at January 01, 2009 08:00 PM (vzw1g)

131

Here You go, additional blonde agent and others who continue to pretend doing nothing was an option while you wrap yourself in conservative dogma.  Oh and it's an analysis from Nouriel Roubini, perhaps the most prescient economic forecaster and analyst today and a guy who predicted this meltdown well over a year ago and not a left wing political site so it actual means something.  This analysis comes from October 9, 2008 as the markets were seizing up.

The world is at severe risk of a global systemic financial meltdown and a severe global depression The U.S. and advanced economies’ financial systems are now headed towards a near-term systemic financial meltdown a collapse of the shadow banking system (non-regulated financial players such as hedge funds) is possible We have a severe recession, a severe financial crisis and a severe banking crisis in advanced economies There was no decoupling among advanced economies and there is no decoupling but rather recoupling of the emerging market economies with the severe crisis of the advanced economies Even the better performing emerging market countries – like the BRICs club of Brazil, Russia, India and China – are now at risk of a hard landing It will take a significant change in leadership of economic policy and very radical, coordinated policy actions among all advanced and emerging market economies to avoid this economic and financial disaster Urgent and immediate necessary actions that need to be done globally include: another rapid round of policy rate cuts of the order of at least 150 basis points on average globally a temporary blanket guarantee of all deposits while a triage between insolvent financial institutions that need to be shut down and distressed but solvent institutions that need to be partially nationalized with injections of public capital is made a rapid reduction of the debt burden of insolvent households preceded by a temporary freeze on all foreclosures massive and unlimited provision of liquidity to solvent financial institutions public provision of credit to the solvent parts of the corporate sector to avoid a short-term debt refinancing crisis for solvent but illiquid corporations and small businesses a massive direct government fiscal stimulus packages that includes public works, infrastructure spending, unemployment benefits, tax rebates to lower income households and provision of grants to strapped and crunched state and local government a rapid resolution of the banking problems via triage, public recapitalization of financial institutions and reduction of the debt burden of distressed households and borrowers an agreement between lender and creditor countries running current account surpluses and borrowing, and debtor countries running current account deficits to maintain an orderly financing of deficits and a recycling of the surpluses of creditors to avoid a disorderly adjustment of such imbalances

 

That is more or less the same advice every serious economist was giving at the time.  Not left wing or right wing, economists.  This is an extremely complex problem and it is worldwide in scope.  Every free market economy around the world has had governemnt intervention but somehow you think we should just have allowed the US, and by extention, most of the world, to go into a depression to prove a point or avoid more debt?

If you guys can't come up with some plan that actual deals with the fact we were headed into a systemic financial meltdown and are still teetering on the edge, that would have solved the crisis without a bailout, your argument amounts to stamping your feet and screaming how much you don't like it.  You may think you have some devastingly clear point  but I'm not seeing it.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 02, 2009 04:29 AM (VW9/y)

132 Keep whining and keep ignoring the point being made.  The floodgates have opened and you're as on the hook as the rest of us now.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at January 02, 2009 05:01 AM (YYanS)

133

What point?  That we have more debt now?  No shit.  That more industries are asking for a bailout?  Wow, that's really fucking surprising.

Keep pretending like doing nothing was a realistic or even sane option when not one free market in the world agrees with you.  Here's a clue, we have always been on the hook no matter what was done or not done, the only question was for how much. 

Posted by: JackStraw at January 02, 2009 06:23 AM (VW9/y)

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