March 31, 2011

Oh No: Libyan Rebels Number Less Than 1,000, According to One Reporter
Plus, Grim Tidings: Is Qadaffy Preparing a War-Winning Abdication In Favor of His Daughter?

— Ace

Via Jim Geraghty, the reporter also says as far as actual "soldiers" the number's still lower.

Even with NATO (Sasha Fierce!) acting as their air force the rebels are still unable to take and hold territory.

Libyan rebels fled in headlong retreat from the superior arms and tactics of Muammar Gaddafi's troops on Wednesday, exposing the insurgents' weakness without Western air strikes to tip the scales in their favor.

...

The Libyan army first ambushed the chaotic caravan of volunteers, supporters and bystanders outside Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, then outflanked them through the desert, a maneuver requiring the sort of discipline the rag-tag rebels lack.

The rebels had advanced, their pathway cleared by missiles, but Qadaffy's mercenary ground forces then just ejected them again.

A video report by Jake Tapper shows the retreating (running, really) rebels, and notes the CIA is "on the ground" in Libya and ready to help.

On that last point -- that sure seems like a politically helpful leak which is strategically harmful. Obama hands want to show the public they're "serious" so they put that out there. But if they were really serious, and not just trying to make a show of it, wouldn't that be withheld?

The world continues to ponder arming the rebels (um, what is there to ponder? You've chosen sides and chosen war and now you're going to refuse them weapons?), but if there are so few rebels, lacking any kind of battlefield discipline, what sort of weapon can help them?

Via Hot Air, Qadaffy's shelling the last western rebel-held town of Misrata...

Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi shelled the rebel-held city of Misrata on Thursday and dozens of civilians have been killed in the past few days when their homes were hit, a rebel spokesman said.

Misrata, the last big rebel strong-hold in western Libya, has been encircled by pro-Gaddafi forces for weeks and repeated Western air strikes aimed at protecting civilians there have not so far succeeded in halting the attacks.

... and Qadaffy is now arming pick-up trucks with light weapons, hoping they won't draw the attention of NATO jets but will get the job done.

And the Vatican is confirming 40 civilian casualties in NATO airstrikes on Tripoli.

Now, if Obama has in fact arrived far too late and backed a losing cause, he's going to have to face a serious dilemma.

1. "Americanize" the war and win what the indigenous forces cannot.

2. Allow the rebels to lose in a war in which American prestige has been put into play.

I know how most presidents have answered this dilemma -- they've gone with 1. Since "Who Lost China?" was a potent political question in 1949-1950, American presidents have tended to become personally, egotistically, self-interestedly determined not to have a "loss" on their record (in addition to the better reasons for fighting a war), and have committed the US to slow-walking escalation and increasing direct involvement when faced with such a loss.

At first I didn't think this was a major worry because Obama is by nature a pacifist and the left would truly abandon him (I think) if he actually gave the order to inject American ground-fighters into a war of sketchy importance.

On the other hand, he is also a very vain man with what seems to be a messiah complex. And he's a political animal to his core.

I am now worried that if the rebels can't take the country (and it seems as if they can't) Obama will find himself justifying the deployment of ground troops into another country, not because it's vital to the national security, but just because he wants to seem "tough" in November 2012.

And on that note -- since Obama will not be able to run on his domestic accomplishments (it seems), the New York Times is suggesting he run as a "foreign policy president" in 2012.

A foreign policy president needs W's, doesn't he?

I supported an intervention on the premise that our involvement would be limited, and that we would, in fact, be willing to walk away if a limited intervention wasn't enough to win the war. That is, that we took a more grown-up attitude about it, calculated our exact level of desired involvement and refused to go any higher than this, and had the discipline, like a professional gambler, to fold the hand if it wasn't a winner. And not just keep pouring more money into the pot, hoping to get lucky.

I don't think Obama is wise or disciplined or mature, but I was counting on his basic pacifism to serve as a proxy for those virtues and keep our involvement in the skies.

I'm less confident of that now.

If the rebels are as few and undisciplined as it seems the only way to win the war is by lobbing a missile right on Qadaffy's head. And even that won't end the war, necessarily, because it's not Qadaffy's charisma and brains that keeps him in power, but the billions in gold from oil he's sitting on, and if he dies, presumably his son and daughter just start signing the mercenaries' checks.

And on top of that, it's not easy to hit a person with a missile. I remember during the War in Iraq that for a period of weeks we kept getting reports that we may have hit Hussein, but the missile was always just a little late, or the intelligence a little stale.

Here's a nightmare scenario I'm now worried about:

Qadaffy is now deploying his "sexy" blonde daughter Aisha as a sort of Arabic Joan of Arc to rally troops.

Aisha, dubbed the Claudia Schiffer of North Africa, is known for her designer sunglasses and supermodel looks...

The mum-of-three has been stripped of her role as a UN Goodwill Ambassador because of her support for her brutal dad.

The rumoured death of one of her closest brothers, Khamis, 27, last week is said to be behind her rallying call.

Aisha has hated the West ever since she was nine, when her adopted sister Hanna was killed by a US air raid on Tripoli as they slept. Since then Aisha, who married her cousin Ahmed al-Gaddafi al-Qahsi in 2006, has spoken out in support of the IRA and worked as a lawyer for former Iraq tyrant Saddam Hussein.

Here's a fetching picture of her, with the troops:

Other pictures make me wonder who should be more insulted by the phrase "the Claudia Schiffert of North Africa," Claudia Schiffert or North Africa? All I can think is that I'm at a country club mixer and Rodney Dangerfield just said "last time I saw a mouth like that it had a hook in it."

But here's how Qadaffy can win the war:

Abdicate and place his daughter in the presidency, or whatever they call Tyrant for Life there.

What would the West do? Would we attempt to kill a mother of three that's supposedly pretty?

Wouldn't that move be a coalition-defeating ploy? Couldn't they claim that constitutes a "compromise," in as much as Qadaffy himself is out of power and, supposedly, "reforms" can now proceed, and wouldn't the Arab League desert us at that point? (For all that counts for, which isn't much.)

I'm wondering if Qadaffy isn't raising his daughter's profile and getting her headlines calling her "Woman of War" in order to execute just this ploy.

And what do we do then?

And check out Aisha's psychological profile -- she hates the West because Reagan's airstrike on her father killed her sister, and she supports the terrorist IRA and worked as a lawyer for all-around champion democrat Saddam Hussein.

Worst of all possible worlds?

Contingency Plan: Waterhouse points out that, as it looks currently, Qadaffy can probably win this thing militarily, so he probably doesn't need to resort to my tricksy tyrant-swap-out.

That's a good point. But in that case I suggest it as his Plan B. I mean, I don't suggest it in the sense I'm trying to give the guy useful advice. I mean, I speculate that this might be a contingency plan.

Posted by: Ace at 07:40 AM | Comments (164)
Post contains 1408 words, total size 9 kb.

1 Good thing Bush didn't rush in half-assed without a plan.

Posted by: FUBAR at March 31, 2011 07:11 AM (McG46)

2 Yummy Mark Steyn is covering this now!  Obama saying that these rebels are lawyers, doctors, professionals who are the "freedom fighters" and that so far "they are saying the right thing."  Awesome.

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 07:12 AM (ihSHD)

3 WTF!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at March 31, 2011 07:13 AM (w3f8C)

4

They need High Speed Rail and a Bike Lane!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at March 31, 2011 07:13 AM (w3f8C)

5

Is this thing on?

 

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at March 31, 2011 07:14 AM (w3f8C)

6 Hmm, what's going on with this thread?

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 07:14 AM (ihSHD)

7

I am confident our CIA with its great track record, dating back to its great successes in Iran in the 1950s will succeed here too.

I think there problems is that they need someone who is an expert in Africa, I say we parachutte Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame into Libya with a pistol, walkie talkie, swizzle straw, and a rubber band. They'll bring down the Gadahfi regime themselves.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:19 AM (wuv1c)

8 Not one soldier should be placed at risk --when we could have solved this problem from the air a month ago. This will not end well for us.

Posted by: not sayin' who I am at March 31, 2011 07:22 AM (2y90e)

9

I am confident our CIA with its great track record, dating back to its great successes in Iran in the 1950s will succeed here too.

I think their problem is that they need someone who is an expert on African affairs, someone who knows the people, speaks the language, and can kill a man with his bare hands.

 I say we parachutte Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame into Libya with a pistol, walkie talkie, a swizzle straw, two paper clips, half a pack of cigarettes, and a rubber band. They'll bring down the Gadahfi regime themselves

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:41 AM (wuv1c)

10 Also, as CDR M pointed out yesterday, Aisha has a really long finger, rivaled only by ET.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:41 AM (wuv1c)

11 What happened with the thread was that I published it right after LauraW's. When that happens, I usually put it back into draft to let the other post have top position for a while, then re-publish. happens a lot. THat's why threads disappear -- I've stepped on someone else's post. We don't do much coordination behind the scenes. We're no Townhall.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2011 07:43 AM (nj1bB)

12

At this point, I'm just wishing the Apocalypse would go ahead and get here, already.  What a clusterfuck. 

Posted by: Sharkman at March 31, 2011 07:43 AM (Orc9J)

13 Would you like some fries, Mr. Obama, with your QUAGMIRE?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2011 07:44 AM (swuwV)

14 and notes the CIA is "on the ground" in Libya and ready to help yeah, Plame, Wilson, and Penn are going nuts right now.

Posted by: Dallas at March 31, 2011 07:44 AM (Hb5CK)

15 More importantly, there are several articles on the Black Swan in WSJ. I think Ace started something. I don't know why they couldn't have had a credit naming Lane as the dancing double or dancing by Sarah Lane.

Posted by: moi at March 31, 2011 07:44 AM (s7C19)

16 12

At this point, I'm just wishing the Apocalypse would go ahead and get here, already.  What a clusterfuck. 

We're working on it.

Check back next year.

Posted by: The Mayans at March 31, 2011 07:44 AM (OKZrE)

17

When that happens, I usually put it back into draft to let the other post have top position for a while, then re-publish.

Giving LauraW a chance to enjoy being on top...

you sir, are a Gentleman.

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2011 07:45 AM (w3f8C)

18 "We don't do much coordination behind the scenes." I thought you guys go on weekly retreats?

Posted by: moi at March 31, 2011 07:45 AM (s7C19)

19 but if there are so few rebels, lacking any kind of battlefield discipline, what sort of weapon can help them?

High speed rail!  Or barring that, Commando Joe Biden should be up for the task of routing Ghadafi's merc forces. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 31, 2011 07:45 AM (9hSKh)

20 >>>Giving LauraW a chance to enjoy being on top... >>>you sir, are a Gentleman. Nah I'm just lazy and it's easier on my lumbar.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2011 07:46 AM (nj1bB)

21 shoot, why did my comment post twice differently?

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:46 AM (wuv1c)

22

...oh, and Obama proves inept at waging War?

Who saw that coming?

Not me.  No, Sir.

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2011 07:47 AM (w3f8C)

23 Ben: "I say we parachutte Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame into Libya with a pistol, walkie talkie, a swizzle straw, two paper clips, half a pack of cigarettes, and a rubber band. They'll bring down the Gadahfi regime themselves"

You need at least three to make a team. I can be the third, but I have to be Number One.

Posted by: McGruber at March 31, 2011 07:47 AM (swuwV)

24 oh, i must have posted on the original thread before it disappeared. i see

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:47 AM (wuv1c)

25 no one's interested in my speculation about Aisha? Well, remember: You read it here first.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2011 07:48 AM (nj1bB)

26

Well this sucks.

At least France is involved.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:48 AM (wuv1c)

27 these rebels are lawyers, doctors, professionals who are the "freedom fighters" and that so far "they are saying the right thing."

"Saying the right thing" isn't exactly the quality looked for in soldiers - maybe community organizers.  And note, when attempting a violent uprising against a vicious dictator, your first choice of recruits probably shouldn't come from the ranks of lawyers, doctors, and professionals.  Just a hint.

Posted by: Jean at March 31, 2011 07:49 AM (WkuV6)

28 "Worst of all possible worlds?"

LOOK!! OVER THERE!! A SQUIRREL!!!!!!!

Posted by: The MBM at March 31, 2011 07:49 AM (OtQXp)

29 There probably were a lot more actual rebels before most of them got slaughtered in the last month's worth of fighting. Trying to fight a war of attrition when the other side can keep hiring mercenaries with gold and oil isn't a winning strategy if you have limited manpower and funding.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at March 31, 2011 07:49 AM (ijjAe)

30

no one's interested in my speculation about Aisha?

Well, remember: You read it here first
.

He has a lot of kids, I thought he was grooming one of his sons to take over for him. Her ungodly long finger scares me.

I read he has 6.5 billion in gold reserves in his counrty, so he can afford to fight this war for a long time, as the weapons his army has are cheap and plentiful.

I pointed out earlier, when this war started, Gadahfi is the only belligerent who isn't borrowing money from the chinese to fight this war.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:50 AM (wuv1c)

31 "...but if there are so few rebels, lacking any kind of battlefield discipline, what sort of weapon can help them?"

I'm considering nukes. What could go wrong?

Posted by: Barack Obama (D-Manchuria) at March 31, 2011 07:50 AM (swuwV)

32 I haven't heard that the rebels are Jodie Foster and they've just retreated to the dubious safety of a pinball machine. That's outside of my knowledge base.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff al-Amriki at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (g6nyw)

33 Maybe Kim Bassinger can buy Libya, or has she learned her lesson?

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (wuv1c)

34 The daughter is obnoxious. I hope she gets taken out.

Posted by: moi at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (s7C19)

35

But here's how Qadaffy can win the war:

Abdicate and place his daughter in the presidency, or whatever they call Tyrant for Life there.

It kinda looks, at the moment, like he'll win just by conventional military means, though. Then he wouldn't have to resort to tricksy moves.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (YvNBz)

36 2. Allow the rebels to lose in a war in which American prestige has been put into play.

And then...

3. Blame Bush

As I have been saying since the very beginning of this horseshit, we do not have a dog in this fight and Obama has screwed the pooch. But that is nothing new.

Everything that worthless shit has touched has turned to shit. It is almost like he is doing everything he can do to destroy this country.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (M9Ie6)

37

no one's interested in my speculation about Aisha?

I got very interested when you mentioned her as a nine year-old...less so once I realized she had grown up.

...besides, I can see her hair-  She's a Harlot! 

Posted by: Mohammed likes them young at March 31, 2011 07:52 AM (w3f8C)

38 This is Hussein O's Vietnam.   Such schadenfreude do I feel..............

Posted by: Cairo Street-Fighting Man at March 31, 2011 07:53 AM (UqKQV)

39

I don't think Obama is wise or disciplined or mature, but I was counting on his basic pacifism to serve as a proxy for those virtues and keep our involvement in the skies.

I'm less confident of that now.

 

You know what this calls for:  another delicious speech given by our dreamy Milk Chocolate Messiah. 

Only problem, what should he talk about this time? 

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 07:54 AM (ihSHD)

40

I pointed out earlier, when this war started, Gadahfi is the only belligerent who isn't borrowing money from the chinese to fight this war.

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 12:50 PM (wuv1c)

 

Two Words : Stimulus!

 

Posted by: Joe 'Arab Recovery Spring' Biden at March 31, 2011 07:54 AM (w3f8C)

41 Wow, how many kinds of awesome is this? What does Tim Pawlenty think about the NATO Kinetic Military Action in Libya?

Posted by: blaster at March 31, 2011 07:54 AM (l5dj7)

42 Umm, you forgot Option 3: Pull out, give a big "as I've always said, regime change was not the goal" speech, let the MFM spin it as an overwhelming victory.

Posted by: Brendan at March 31, 2011 07:54 AM (saRwI)

43 Worst of all possible worlds?


Not really.  This is all Obama and Soros' plan, I think.

I really have no faith in anything he does right now.  Track the actions of his Administration since Nov, last year.  Just how many times have they met with the 'enemy', sitting along side Soros?

If I'm Israel, I am gassing up the fighters, and wiping down ammo.

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:54 AM (penCf)

44 Zero really woke up and found his dick in the dog on this one. The Rebels are too much like him. Stupid, disorganized, ill trained, and ill equipped to do the job they are attempting (halfheartedly) to do. Change, baby!

Posted by: maddogg at March 31, 2011 07:55 AM (OlN4e)

45

...besides, I can see her hair-  She's a Harlot! 

 

She's also sitting in a truck full of men who are not her husbands.  Hussy!

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 07:55 AM (ihSHD)

46

She's also sitting in a truck full of men who are not her husbands.  Hussy!

If she has Breast-Fed them, then it is OK.

Posted by: Mohammed at March 31, 2011 07:56 AM (w3f8C)

47 Aisha will moderate over time - eventually she will want to travel to Paris or Dubai.  I don't think she would be willing to lager up for decades.


Posted by: Jean at March 31, 2011 07:56 AM (WkuV6)

48

Umm, you forgot Option 3: Pull out, give a big "as I've always said, regime change was not the goal" speech, let the MFM spin it as an overwhelming victory

 

This Libyan situation, which I inherited from Ronald Reagan...

My predecessor, GWB muddied the waters in teh ME so much that not even I could part them...

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 07:56 AM (ihSHD)

49 2. Allow the rebels to lose in a war in which American prestige has been put into play.

Denigrating American prestige on the battlefield may actually be the point of this pointless exercise.  It will make us better "citizens of the world" if we're more "humble".

Posted by: Rod Rescueman at March 31, 2011 07:57 AM (QxGmu)

50 The Coming of the 12th Imam has brought me nothing but painful Bacne.

Posted by: Kal Penn at March 31, 2011 07:57 AM (w3f8C)

51 As I said the other day, getting into Libya is the least of Obama's problems. Getting out is going to be an entirely different matter and since he decided to do this without Congressional support he's on his own. I think the number of people who actually give a shit that we have UN support is smaller than the number of rebels in Libya.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2011 07:58 AM (TMB3S)

52

Here's option 3.

When it becomes clear that Gadahfi is going to take Benghazi anyway or Civillian casualties form Coalition airstrikes reach a certain number, Obama will withdraw, blame it on Hillary publically  and as for her resignation.

 

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:58 AM (wuv1c)

53

Mohammed Atta was a University of Hamburg engineering student, he was pretty credentialed too...

Mark Steyn

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 07:58 AM (ihSHD)

54 25 no one's interested in my speculation about Aisha?

Rachel Maddow really wants to be friends with Aisha because of Aisha's "handy" talents...

I'm interested.  It is a scary proposition (assuming that the Libyan military would allow a woman to rule in a post-Mummar Libya), because revenge is a powerful motivator.  Given her association with so many terrorists, (her dad, Saddam, the IRA, and Lord only knows how many other affiliations she has), it would be foolhardy to allow such a person to control an oil-rich country with the proven capability the develop WMDs. 

If I was Aisha and I was left in charge after Mummar's departure, I'd make secret deals with Syria, Iran, North Korea - the Who's Who of anti-Western nations, and plan on executing my revenge at the nearest opportunity. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 31, 2011 07:58 AM (9hSKh)

55 Being the Claudia Schiffer of North Africa is kind of like being the Jessica Alba of the St. Cletus Burn Ward. It's all relative, shahid.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff al-Amriki at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (g6nyw)

56

the left would truly abandon him (I think) if he actually gave the order to inject American ground-fighters into a war of sketchy importance.

I imagine that a lot of Republican support for this would collapse with ground troops, too. Americans do not want to see boys come home under folded flags from some other dust blown shithole country. Afghanistan was an easy sell with a vengeance-minded public; Iraq a little less so but we still had WMD fears and everyone knew what a rabid dog Saddam was. A Libyan ground war would be impossible to get the American public behind. I'm OK with bombing the bejeezus out of Ghadaffi, but not with putting infantry in there.

Posted by: UGAdawg at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (PWWdd)

57 She's more of a Maggie Gyllenhaal of the North Africa

Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (wuv1c)

58 Who, pray tell, is Claudia Schiffert?

Posted by: Chuckit at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (Gpoyx)

59

When it becomes clear that Gadahfi is going to take Benghazi anyway or Civillian casualties form Coalition airstrikes reach a certain number, Obama will withdraw, blame it on Hillary publically  and as for her resignation.

 

"Benghazi, a city that is almost as large as Charlotte..."

Posted by: B.O. (Yeah, I know I stink) at March 31, 2011 07:59 AM (ihSHD)

60

You may well be correct in how the daughter is being positioned. That makes logical sense, although that alone argues against this being what they have in mind.

Now, for me to be a horrible American. My desire is that, if at all possible, not a single American service member is harmed but the whole situation gets FUCKED and Teleprompter Jesus has to FINALLY get some shit on him. That is all I want in the whole world. I want this to go badly for him. Fire away.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at March 31, 2011 08:00 AM (BPl2/)

61 43 Umm, you forgot Option 3: Pull out, give a big "as I've always said, regime change was not the goal" speech, let the MFM spin it as an overwhelming victory. Posted by: Brendan at March 31, 2011 12:54 PM (saRwI) And we have a winner. The moment an American dies (or the French and Brits conclude a better deal with Q-Daffy) Bambi will declare victory and go home.

Posted by: joncelli at March 31, 2011 08:00 AM (RD7QR)

62 She's more of a Maggie Gyllenhaal of the North Africa

zing!

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 31, 2011 08:00 AM (YvNBz)

63 Rufus T. Firefly was a more competent commander-in-chief than Field Marshal Jugears.

Posted by: Cicero at March 31, 2011 08:00 AM (QKKT0)

64

Being the Claudia Schiffer of North Africa is kind of like being the Jessica Alba of the St. Cletus Burn Ward.

It's all relative, shahid.

 

EoJ, on fire again!

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 08:00 AM (ihSHD)

65 >>>It kinda looks, at the moment, like he'll win just by conventional military means, though. Then he wouldn't have to resort to tricksy moves. right, that's true. I guess I mean this as a trump.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2011 08:01 AM (nj1bB)

66 Oh God, Obama can't go with option 1. Can he? He's painted himself into a no option 1 corner. But he can't take the L, can he? Anyway, as a real conservative, I supported taking on Qdafy in a general, sure he's an ass kind of way, but I am uninformed and don't really know what sort of genocide he's allegedly on the cusp of committing. Then, I read Coulter's column and she points out that: "True, Gadhafi was responsible for numerous terrorist acts against Americans in the 1980s, including blowing up Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 270 people, including 189 Americans. Soon after President Bush's 9/11 speech vowing to go to war not only with terrorists, but those who supported them, Gadhafi accepted responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing and paid the victims' families $8 million apiece. After Bush invaded Iraq, Gadhafi suspended Libya's nuclear and chemical weapons program, inviting international inspectors to verify that the programs had been halted. A few years after that, Gadhafi paid millions of dollars to the victims of other Libyan-sponsored terrorist attacks from the '80s. In return, President Bush granted Libya immunity from terror-related lawsuits. " This is a goat fuck, wag the dog excursion that's being done on the cheap by a lazy, boring president.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2011 08:01 AM (QxSug)

67 Umm, you forgot Option 3: Pull out, give a big "as I've always said, regime change was not the goal" speech, let the MFM spin it as an overwhelming victory.

I don't really think that's a viable option.  The Boomers still remember the "Declare we won and go home" end of Vietnam.  They'd see it as the retreat it is.

Personally, I think the President should be impeached, and then President for 17 Months Joe Biden should give a speech wherein he says, "There was never a national interest at stake for the United States to engage in military action in Libya.  Given the nebulous nature of the rebels, their poor strategic situation, and the lack of actual support from our allies, we must regretfully withdraw from this confrontation."

He could add stuff about "Understand this is not withdrawing because we can't win, but because winning wouldn't mean anything" or whatever.

Yes, it would be a "lost war," technically.  Yes, it would be "a blow to our prestige."  It would also be the right thing to do.  And WE still know we could kick Khadaffi's rear, so it wouldn't matter in any real way.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 31, 2011 08:02 AM (8y9MW)

68 After Bush invaded Iraq, Gadhafi suspended Libya's nuclear and chemical weapons program, inviting international inspectors to verify that the programs had been halted.

A few years after that, Gadhafi paid millions of dollars to the victims of other Libyan-sponsored terrorist attacks from the '80s. In return, President Bush granted Libya immunity from terror-related lawsuits. "

This is a goat fuck, wag the dog excursion that's being done on the cheap by a lazy, boring president.

Which means that no other nations has a reason to make such a deal with us, even if nations like Syria or Iran were willing to deal.  They make out far better by digging in and continuing their belligerence. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 31, 2011 08:04 AM (9hSKh)

69

From AP:

Under withering congressional probing and criticism of an ill-defined mission to aid a rebel force that officials know little about, Gates and Joint Chiefs chairman Adm. Mike Mullen sketched out a largely limited role for the U.S. military going forward, with Gates saying some other country could train the rebels trying to oust strongman Moammar Gadhafi.

“My view would be, if there is going to be that kind of assistance to the opposition, there are plenty of sources for it other than the United States,” said Gates. “Somebody else should do that.”

Asked by one lawmaker whether the U.S. involvement might inevitably mean “boots on the ground” in Libya, Gates replied, “Not as long as I am in this job.”

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 08:05 AM (ihSHD)

70

This guy was under our thumb for 20 years, generally under control and minding his own business, hell the evil idiotgenius Bush got Kaddafi to give up his WMD program without even trying. Then things break loose and we get snookered by the French into doing their dirty work for them.

It's almost as if we jumped into this one without having any concrete objectives or strategy other than, "Start bombing and Kaddafi will quit." What a damn disaster.

Anybody want to start a pool as to when the UN decides to send in the blue helmets (which basically means us)?

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at March 31, 2011 08:06 AM (JxMoP)

71 Oh, Ace, I think we all forgot about the magic dead terrorist multiplication effect. For every dead Libyan Qdafy supporter we bomb, how many new ones are magically popping up?

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 31, 2011 08:06 AM (QxSug)

72

A foreign policy president needs W's, doesn't he?

Barack Wuss-ein Obama

Posted by: KZnextzone at March 31, 2011 08:07 AM (ZUWaD)

73 So glad the adults are in charge now.



/spit

Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at March 31, 2011 08:07 AM (6IReR)

74 As far as I'm concerned, the dems since the 1960s couldn't give a rats ass about our military, and will never hesitate to use them as a prop to make themselves look good, and that usually means war. The left are NOT pacifists, they are anti America, and the symbol of America's big honking dick is our military. They are also anti -"America beating up on their buddies",  but don't think for a minute they wouldn't use the military for their own aims when it suits them.

"we support our troops when they shoot their officers". Sound familiar? That isn't pacifist, that is the left saying we will support you when you do our bidding.

Posted by: Berserker at March 31, 2011 08:08 AM (gWHrG)

75 No, all of those choices are too intelligent. Obama, working from his own lack of education and Leftist mental straitjacket, will come up with a worse one. We won't commit more troops, but we won't withdraw, either. We'll keep pissing away cruise missiles and ordnance and making important noises about "sanctions" -- all the while Obama's hoping Kadafi chokes to death on an olive pit some evening.

Posted by: Trimegistus at March 31, 2011 08:10 AM (YIKQc)

76

shows the retreating (running, really) rebels, and

They aren't as good as my 1991 Running Rebels. Of course, I spent more money on mine.

 

Posted by: Jerry "Shark" Tarkanian at March 31, 2011 08:11 AM (OWjjx)

77 How come she doesn't have a pack of kids already? Or, don't those rules apply to her?

Posted by: moi at March 31, 2011 08:12 AM (s7C19)

78 65 Rufus T. Firefly was a more competent commander-in-chief than Field Marshal Jugears.

Posted by: Cicero at March 31, 2011 01:00 PM (QKKT0)

"Remember, you're fighting for this woman's honor- which is more than she ever did!"

Posted by: The MBM at March 31, 2011 08:12 AM (OtQXp)

79

Asked by one lawmaker whether the U.S. involvement might inevitably mean “boots on the ground” in Libya, Gates replied, “Not as long as I am in this job.”

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 01:05 PM (ihSHD)

Yeah well someone is painting targets for the air attacks and I would guess that would be some special forces guys. I quit trusting Gates a long time ago.

Posted by: robtr at March 31, 2011 08:13 AM (MtwBb)

80

Eh...late to the party as usual. I'm sure the phrases cluster fuck, circle jerk, chinese fire drill and kinetic calamity have been uttered already.

Oooh! how bout Kinetic Cluster Fuck?  

Posted by: dananjcon at March 31, 2011 08:14 AM (pr+up)

81 Yeah, what's with the finger?

Posted by: moi at March 31, 2011 08:14 AM (s7C19)

82 I supported an intervention on the premise that our involvement would be limited, and that we would, in fact, be willing to walk away if a limited intervention wasn't enough to win the war.

We've seen this movie before.... does Vietnam ring a bell? God help the troops if Obama decides to put boots on the ground....

Posted by: KG at March 31, 2011 08:14 AM (DeCj1)

83 So the great Arab uprising in Libya is being conducted by under 1000 rag tag rebels and we are backing them?  Wow.  Obama stepped right into this pile of dog shit. 

Posted by: Who Dat -- Future UN Sec.Gen. at March 31, 2011 08:15 AM (JpBHP)

84 Odumbass already said this was to prevent slaughter, without regime change there will be slaughter.  but he can't get regime change without ground troops, but it will be difficult to get those, Gates has said there won't be ground troops as long as he is in the job.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 31, 2011 08:18 AM (Z1jiu)

85 12

At this point, I'm just wishing the Apocalypse would go ahead and get here, already.  What a clusterfuck. 

Posted by: Sharkman

I'm with you all the way on that. Tired of the nonsense.

Posted by: backhoe at March 31, 2011 08:20 AM (0bk6W)

86 Oooh! how bout Kinetic Cluster Fuck? 

Or Kinetic Chicken Fuck

Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 31, 2011 08:20 AM (tf9Ne)

87 but it will be difficult to get those, Gates has said there won't be ground troops as long as he is in the job.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 31, 2011 01:18 PM (Z1jiu)

How? Since when does a Sec. of Defense outrank the CiC? If Obama wants the boots, he will get the boots.

Posted by: KG at March 31, 2011 08:21 AM (DeCj1)

88 That "no ground forces" had a shorter expiration date than milk on the Equator. 

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 08:21 AM (sOtz/)

89 Who Dat -- Future UN Sec.Gen.: "Obama stepped right into this pile of dog shit."

Worse. He made it. It started in Egypt and his rhetoric got away from him. He's chasing his words without a real plan and hoping someone will fill in for him. He's a natural at that.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2011 08:23 AM (swuwV)

90 On the other hand, he is also a very vain man with what seems to be a messiah complex.

Yep, exactly. The President shot off a few limpdick missiles and didn't accomplish anything. He can't afford to let the world see how flaccid he really is.

And I'm in total agreement with Ben at #54.
Anybody looked at InTrade on this one?

Posted by: Gunslinger at March 31, 2011 08:24 AM (Zi+FQ)

91 88 Oooh! how bout Kinetic Cluster Fuck? 

Or Kinetic Chicken Fuck

Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 31, 2011 01:20 PM (tf9Ne)

Haven't I suffered enough?

 

Posted by: Mr. Chicken at March 31, 2011 08:24 AM (pr+up)

92 88 Oooh! how bout Kinetic Cluster Fuck? 

Or Kinetic Chicken Fuck

Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 31, 2011 01:20 PM (tf9Ne)

Or Kinetic Chinese Chicken Fuck.

 

Posted by: dananjcon at March 31, 2011 08:26 AM (pr+up)

93

Anyone notice the "40 civilians killed in coalition air strikes" headlines?  Doesn't matter if it's true.  Nobel Prize Committee, Poor, Women, Especially Poor Women and Minorities Hardest Hit

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 08:27 AM (sOtz/)

94

How come she doesn't have a pack of kids already? Or, don't those rules apply to her?

 

She has 3 kids.

 

Yeah well someone is painting targets for the air attacks and I would guess that would be some special forces guys. I quit trusting Gates a long time ago.

 

Yeah, that's all on the QT.  He means boots on the ground that anyone knows about.  You'd better believe if this was GWB's war, the MFM would not only inform the public that there were boots on the ground, they'd also give out their coordinates.

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 08:28 AM (ihSHD)

95 It's funny that you think Obama is a pacifist. He's just an "anti-imperialist" like the majority of the anti war protesters--that is, they take the other side in the most high minded sounding way.

Posted by: Randy at March 31, 2011 08:29 AM (D0PNd)

96 20 >>>Giving LauraW a chance to enjoy being on top...

>>>you sir, are a Gentleman.

Nah I'm just lazy and it's easier on my lumbar.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2011 12:46 PM (nj1bB)

It's commentary like this that you just don't get on other award-winning internet commentary site thingies.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 31, 2011 08:29 AM (bxiXv)

97

How? Since when does a Sec. of Defense outrank the CiC? If Obama wants the boots, he will get the boots.

 

Maybe Gates will resign then.  I would have left a long time ago, if I was him.


Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 08:30 AM (ihSHD)

98 These rebel fighters ... aren't rebel fighters.

They aren't fighting. Last week we forced Q-Ducky's forces to retreat from some eastern towns by bombing their tanks -- and the rebels rushed in with their broke-ass pickup trucks and shot their AK-47s into the air and shouted Alluhu Akbar and bragged about taking Tripoli next.

But as soon as the Libyan Army regrouped and went on the attack --- the rebels panicked and fled.

Half of them are just young dude war tourists. They hop in their car and drive an hour or two from their home to the front lines. They shout  Allahu Akbar and say Q-Ducky is a camel-fucker ... and they panic and flee if they hear gunfire.

The reports I've read say these rebels are often fleeing at the sound of their *own* gunfire. Somebody next to them fires off a rocket and they jump back in their rusted out Toyota and are driving home before you can say Durka, Durka, Muhammad Jihad.


Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 31, 2011 08:31 AM (QcFbt)

99

 It's funny that you think Obama is a pacifist. He's just an "anti-imperialist" like the majority of the anti war protesters--that is, they take the other side in the most high minded sounding way.

 

I agree.  Obama's not really a pacifist.  He's a street agitator. 

Posted by: runningrn at March 31, 2011 08:31 AM (ihSHD)

100 Baracky doesn't care who wins, as long as it isn't us.

Quadaffy's family business (oppression), the Al Qaeda Martyrs Brigade, or France.

While the Libyan people would not benefit, it would be amusing to see Aisha take over and bad-mouth Obama for a couple of years.

She has a reputation for vitriol and is guaranteed a lot of free press - being a female Muslim minority, she out-ranks even Obama in the MBM Status Bonus Chart.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 31, 2011 08:33 AM (bxiXv)

101 Like joeindc said above, where is the MBM on this slaughter of Libyan citizens, of people who see the US invading their skies with death? Don't you know bombing Gaddaffi's armies only acts as a recruiting tool for the Colonel? Where's the papier-mache street puppets and outrage???

Posted by: George Orwell at March 31, 2011 08:33 AM (AZGON)

102 Also, Aisha has a somewhat shrouded history of supporting terrorism, which would no doubt continue. So that would be bad, mainly for Europe.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 31, 2011 08:34 AM (bxiXv)

103 "Got ass kicked up around my jug handle ears by a lame-assed off his rocker A-rab with no air force and a tiny contengent." Add another star to that Presidential Resume for '12.

Posted by: maddogg at March 31, 2011 08:35 AM (OlN4e)

104 Now that at least 40 civilians have been brutally murdered by Obama's puppets at NATO using US killing machines, will Ed Schultz denounce him as a baby-killer and tool of arms manufacturers? I demand burning effigies and drum chanting!!!

Posted by: George Orwell at March 31, 2011 08:35 AM (AZGON)

105 Half of them are just young dude war tourists. They hop in their car and drive an hour or two from their home to the front lines. They shout  Allahu Akbar and say Q-Ducky is a camel-fucker ... and they panic and flee if they hear gunfire.

The reports I've read say these rebels are often fleeing at the sound of their *own* gunfire. Somebody next to them fires off a rocket and they jump back in their rusted out Toyota and are driving home before you can say Durka, Durka, Muhammad Jihad.


Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 31, 2011 01:31 PM (QcFbt)

Just based on observing TV coverage and interviews they create defensive positions on roads without any entrenchment, run at the first sign of artillery (which makes sense if you don't know how to sandbag or camouflage -- in a place made of sand), shoot a huge percentage of their ammo at satellites, and generally don't appear to have any command structure beyond who drives.  And their al Qaeda flickers, or something. 

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 08:37 AM (sOtz/)

106 Bet you a six pack of your favorite beverage Barry declares victory and bails in less than two weeks. This has disaster written all over it, and the sooner he takes the PR hit, the less damage done to him (and us, of course, but he's not worried about us).

Posted by: brobdingnagian at March 31, 2011 08:39 AM (K/USr)

107

98 20 >>>Giving LauraW a chance to enjoy being on top...

I imagine it easier on her hump.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 31, 2011 08:40 AM (pr+up)

108 We are governed by an executive that goes to war in secret and at will, openly contemptuous of the democratic process and even minimal transparency. and when you realize that that executive actually campaigned against this kind of secretive, dictatorial presidency, you realize how this has become systemic, and the anti-democratic rot is deep.

Exactly, who is this Andrew Sullivan character anyway ?

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 31, 2011 08:40 AM (tvs2p)

109 My favorite:

50 Here's a fetching picture of her, with the troops:

I'd hit it.

Posted by: Cruise Missile at March 31, 2011 12:57 PM (IhHdM)


Posted by: kathysaysso at March 31, 2011 08:40 AM (ZtwUX)

110

What would the West do? Would we attempt to kill a mother of three that's supposedly pretty?

The fact that we even have to ask this question explains why we're boned.  The answer should be "Yes, obviously, we'd kill as many mothers and children and new born babes as required to get the job done."  As was the US motto in prior times.  The Germans, even the worst of them, were 10x more civilized than the best of the Libyans.  Yet we bombed the shit of of their cities with incendiaries, and also open fields to which civilians evacuated to try vainly to escape being bombed.

It's bad enough to lose when fighting for the good guys.  Now we're going to lose while fighting for the "other bad guys."  What a bunch of bullshit.  We'd be a million times better off if we'd just vaporized all major population centers in Afghanistan and Iraq when all this mess started as a reprisal for 9-11.  Now look at it.  Billions and billions spent, many of our fighting men killed, many more wounded.  All because we refuse to do the ugly work of killing.

Posted by: Reactionary at March 31, 2011 08:40 AM (xUM1Q)

111 And check out Aisha's psychological profile -- she hates the West because Reagan's airstrike on her father killed her sister,

Meh, she could still be reasonable.

and she supports the terrorist IRA

Not such a big deal, boyo

and worked as a lawyer

That's it!  Target her.  Right now.  She's evil.  Pure evil.  I mean, what a surprise, the daughter of a murderous dictator is a lawyer, who would ever have guessed?

for all-around champion democrat Saddam Hussein.

Oh, come on, everybody needs a lawyer, right?

Posted by: AmishDude at March 31, 2011 08:40 AM (BvBKY)

112 What would the West do? Would we attempt to kill a mother of three that's supposedly pretty? -- The fact that we even have to ask this question explains why we're boned. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 31, 2011 08:43 AM (AZGON)

113 I'd drop the hammer on that bitch, no problem. It isn't like she's an innocent caught in the middle, she's out there in the thick of it. You come to the ball, prepare to dance.

Posted by: maddogg at March 31, 2011 08:44 AM (OlN4e)

114

The answer should be "Yes, obviously, we'd kill as many mothers and children and new born babes as required to get the job done."  -- Reactionary

But the 'job' is civilian protection in Libya.  The most ill-conceived job for air power, evah!  

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 08:45 AM (sOtz/)

115 Half of them are just young dude war tourists. They hop in their car and drive an hour or two from their home to the front lines. They shout  Allahu Akbar and say Q-Ducky is a camel-fucker ... and they panic and flee if they hear gunfire.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 31, 2011 01:31 PM (QcFbt)

Sigh. It would be funny if they weren't the horse we're backing. 

Muslim field armies have not been known for effectiveness in modern times.  Without overwhelming numbers they're not much of a threat.  That is, of course, unless you're also part of a muslim army. 

Posted by: Reactionary at March 31, 2011 08:47 AM (xUM1Q)

116 But the 'job' is civilian protection in Libya. The most ill-conceived job for air power, evah! I'm glad someone said it... is that not the most imbecilic and futile task you could assign to air superiority? Civilian protection? Seriously?

Posted by: George Orwell at March 31, 2011 08:47 AM (AZGON)

117 Ace, Ace, Ace - now do you see why there's no such thing as "limited interventions"?  It's like pregnancy - either you are or you aren't.  There's no such thing as being "kinda/sorta" at war because it makes the possibility of defeat much greater, especially if the enemy is fully committed to war, as Khaddafy obviously is.  And what's been the result?  The "rebels" are still getting their asses kicked, only now Red Barry's got us half-on-the-hook to share in their ignominious defeat AND culpable for the massacre that our half-assed "intervention" was piously and self-righteously supposed to prevent.

When I was a lad, I used to get into the swimming pool that way.  One toe at a time.  Took most of an hour before I was all in, and by that time it was almost time to go home.  Then I learned that it's much better to just jump in and be done with it.

Of course, if the pool had been stocked full of pirhanna, that wouldn't have been such a great idea either.  And that's what this Libyan "rebellion" highly resembles, with its al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood connections.  Which is why I have and still do oppose this bungled "intervention" - we have no allies or national interests in Libya (other than its oil resources, which for Obamunists would be ideological poison) and consequently there's nothing in it for us and no reasonable possibility that tyranny and mass bloodshed won't be the result no matter which side wins.  And no matter which side wins, the result will be a terrorist regime highly motivated to wage war against the West in general and America in particular.

So, in short, if we were going to go into Libya, there were only two ways to do it: either as the beachhead for conquering all of Muslim North Africa, which we can't afford; or carpet-nuking it so there aren't any Islamists left to even try to do the same to us.  Which they fully intend.

But we don't DO things like that.  So far better that we stayed out of it altogether.

But Barry had to prove that he had a penis without whipping it out.  Or wanted to squander what military resources we had left.  Or further discredit the U.S. military while somehow avoiding any collateral PR damage.  Or something.

Moral of the story?  Whenever you find yourself on the same side of any issue as The One, take that as prima facie evidence that you need to rethink your position.

Posted by: JASmius at March 31, 2011 08:48 AM (qtCHY)

118

Uh, you do know this is a Moslem country?  With a lot of hardline Moslem Men in it?

Aisha will never be allowed to rule there... Females do not rule Moslem countries... except through their Husbands...

And the Q has too many Living Sons for her to take power.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 08:49 AM (NtXW4)

119   1,000 rebels have effed up an entire country?  Maybe we morons should start taking notes.

I've been working on mind control with hobos.  Mixed results,  but it's in the early stages of "Phase 1".

Posted by: Dang at March 31, 2011 08:51 AM (TXKVh)

120

 

I am sure   the imaginary  Libyains saved or spared from slaughter numbers are being worked out as we speak

Posted by: kj at March 31, 2011 08:56 AM (63jnT)

121 Mark Stein [paraphrasing]

The Obama administration is taking a page out of Nancy Pelosi's ObamaCare playbook...we have to arm the rebels before we can find out who they are.

lmao...

Posted by: fly at March 31, 2011 08:57 AM (gmi2T)

122 And note, when attempting a violent uprising against a vicious dictator, your first choice of recruits probably shouldn't come from the ranks of lawyers, doctors, and professionals.  Just a hint.

Posted by: Jean

Fidel Castro was a lawyer, Che Guevarra was a doctor:  they overthrew a well armed vicious dictator inside of a year.(but that was a popular revolution, if these rebel guys only have less than a thousand fighters they don't have much of a chance against the Libyan Defense Forces which number about 21,000 full time and another 20,000+ conscripts.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 09:00 AM (J74Py)

123 This is just practice for when we pull the "we have to protect the Palestinians from slaughter by Israel"  and we throw troops in against Israel.

 

 

Posted by: MarkC at March 31, 2011 09:01 AM (yPPVC)

124

But the 'job' is civilian protection in Libya.  The most ill-conceived job for air power, evah!  

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 01:45 PM (sOtz/)

I agree with you.  Except maybe about the job.  I'm not sure anybody really knows what the job is.  I think the policy is "give the rebels aid and pray for a miracle."  We all want regime change - but nobody wants to get their hands dirty.  If I were in charge we'd already have made an example.  A bloody one.

All we did here was kick a hornet nest.  Now Libya is one more oil producing nation that sees we're not REALLY interesting in forcing our will on them when provoked.  Kadoofis will be right back to making WMDs again.  He'll be financing terror.  Etc.  And we will not do shit about it that will actually fix the situation.  Picking the wrong horse in this case was one of the worst blunders ever.  G.W. taught the Muz leaders to fear.  Obastard is teaching them to be brave and fearless.

 

Posted by: Reactionary at March 31, 2011 09:02 AM (xUM1Q)

125

Uh, you do know this is a Moslem country?  With a lot of hardline Moslem Men in it?

Aisha will never be allowed to rule there... Females do not rule Moslem countries... except through their Husbands...

Posted by: Romeo13

Benazir Bhutto ruled Pakistan, a country rumoured to have hardline Muslim men in it. 

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 09:04 AM (J74Py)

126 This is just practice for when we pull the "we have to protect the Palestinians from slaughter by Israel"  and we throw troops in against Israel.

Posted by: MarkC at March 31, 2011 02:01 PM (yPPVC)

(shudder)  If it ever comes to that, either I expatriate the next day and move to some Caribbean island, or else I join whatever revolutionary group looks like it has a shot. 

Posted by: Reactionary at March 31, 2011 09:05 AM (xUM1Q)

127

Aisha will never be allowed to rule there... Females do not rule Moslem countries... except through their Husbands...

And the Q has too many Living Sons for her to take power.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 01:49 PM (NtXW4)

And yet sometimes it happens.  Not sure why.   Maybe it's like the unhijabed lipsticked Ikhwan front group spokeswomen in the US?  Making a (mostly fake) point to the outsiders?  Just a WAG. 

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 09:05 AM (sOtz/)

128 125 This is just practice for when we pull the "we have to protect the Palestinians from slaughter by Israel"  and we throw troops in against Israel.
 

Posted by: MarkC at March 31, 2011 02:01 PM (yPPVC)

Dude, don't even joke about that...


Talk about a nightmare.

Posted by: KG at March 31, 2011 09:05 AM (DeCj1)

129

Benazir Bhutto ruled Pakistan, a country rumoured to have hardline Muslim men in it. 

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 02:04 PM (J74Py)

And what happened to her? Oh, right.

Posted by: KG at March 31, 2011 09:07 AM (DeCj1)

130

Benazir Bhutto ruled Pakistan, a country rumoured to have hardline Muslim men in it.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 02:04 PM (J74Py)

And that turned out... how?  Oh... yeah... assasinated...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 09:08 AM (NtXW4)

131

Benazir Bhutto ruled Pakistan, a country rumoured to have hardline Muslim men in it. 

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 02:04 PM (J74Py)

And what happened to her? Oh, right.

After she was out of power and trying to get back in power with a large Taliban and al Qaeda presence in the country.  Yeah, that's right.

Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 09:10 AM (J74Py)

132 The Mercs on the ground aren't the ones getting rich -- whoever brokered them is. 

If the rebels take some of their soon to be new found oil revenue and simply offer to pay the Mercs on the ground more than the Colonel, the tide changes overnight here.

I rather doubt even a Merc with principals would have a strong preference in sides here. 

Posted by: Purple Avenger at March 31, 2011 09:10 AM (pGlR6)

133 Posted by: Speller at March 31, 2011 02:10 PM (J74Py)

Whatever, not like I care what happens to those animals.

Posted by: KG at March 31, 2011 09:12 AM (DeCj1)

134 And Atta was an urban planner, and Zawahiri, an obstetrician, and Qutb, was a teacher

Posted by: justin cord at March 31, 2011 09:13 AM (YJ303)

135

Posted by: Purple Avenger at March 31, 2011 02:10 PM (pGlR6)

Good Mercs only work for hard currency... not promises. Q has money in the bank, Rebels have promises...

You'll get a few to switch that way, but not the effective ones IMO.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 09:14 AM (NtXW4)

136 B.H.O. meet J.F.K. Bay of Pigs anyone?

Posted by: jr at March 31, 2011 09:16 AM (uzbYw)

137

And that turned out... how? Oh... yeah... assasinated...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 02:08 PM (NtXW4)

Bhutto wasn't a violent hardliner, Aisha is. So there's that.

There will be grumbling, but as long as she's paying for Jihad, I doubt she'd face that much opposition.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 31, 2011 09:18 AM (bxiXv)

138
"... the CIA is on the ground in Libya and ready to help."

How do you say "Bay of Pigs" in Arabic ?




Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood RN at March 31, 2011 09:23 AM (onxiv)

139 shows the retreating (running, really) rebels,

Curly toed slippers don't fail me now!

Posted by: Stolen from Rantburg at March 31, 2011 09:24 AM (FQACB)

140 Well at least this will take care of the worry about AQIM in the rebels.

Posted by: Dave at March 31, 2011 09:25 AM (FQACB)

141 Presumably we're going to continue to attrit Q-boys tanks and artillery. Those can be spotted from the sky and blown up. And we've been blowing up his ammo dumps, so eventually he'll run low on ammo.

But how do we stop thousands of dudes in Toyota pick-up trucks with machine guns and light mortars? From the air they look just like the rebels. Especially with one of the main rebel cities (Misrata) behind enemy lines.

I guess if/once this settles down into a stalemate we can just blow up any pickup trucks heading east on the highway.

Gonna be really hard to tell who's who. Pretty soon the Libyan Army, the rebels, and the civilians are all just gonna be dudes with guns in Toyota pick-up trucks.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 31, 2011 09:26 AM (QcFbt)

142

There will be grumbling, but as long as she's paying for Jihad, I doubt she'd face that much opposition.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 31, 2011 02:18 PM (bxiXv)

Point is why bother, when he has many Sons who could take power?

Just on the 'hope' that the West would not bomb a Woman?  One known to be a hardliner?

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 31, 2011 09:31 AM (NtXW4)

143 A thousand rebels in a country the size of Libya?  I mean, at some point, doesn't a rebellion need to represent at least a significant portion of the population they claim to represent?

Posted by: OCBill at March 31, 2011 09:39 AM (YJvVE)

144 B.H.O. meet J.F.K. Bay of Pigs anyone?

Damn. I wanted to start that meme. Oh well, it's still all good.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2011 09:46 AM (uqJo6)

145

The one positive thing about supporting a 1,000-man insurgency:

 

You can arm the entire force with the contents of a single American gun store.  A blue state gun store even.  No need to travel to a "gun nut" red state like Texas or Montana.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at March 31, 2011 09:51 AM (T4kFH)

146 Gonna be really hard to tell who's who. Pretty soon the Libyan Army, the rebels, and the civilians are all just gonna be dudes with guns in Toyota pick-up trucks.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 31, 2011 02:26 PM (QcFbt) 

The entire region...   I've noticed the guys with the huge recoiless rifles dangling off their trucks get all the ladies.  

Posted by: Beagle at March 31, 2011 09:52 AM (sOtz/)

147 Dang, reading the comments on a dying thread.....You morons deserve a round of applause and drinks.  Every variety of snark; historical and current.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at March 31, 2011 09:54 AM (XiM2Z)

148 Qaddafi's army got whupped by Chad, which was armed with not much more than some Toyota Land Cruisers and a family-sized pack of M-80s.

And yet, despite the fact Puff the Magic AC-130 Dragon has destroyed every armored vehicle in western Libya, the rebels still can't tie their own shoes without blowing off their toes.

It's like going to a basketball game only to find out that it's the Washington Generals versus their junior varsity.

Posted by: DelD at March 31, 2011 10:23 AM (oAZ1S)

149
The Libyan army first ambushed the chaotic caravan of volunteers, supporters and bystanders outside Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, then outflanked them through the desert

Sounds like Uncle Muammar has found Zombie Rommel, who's leading the troops into battle. To Tobruk, boys!

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at March 31, 2011 10:34 AM (1hM1d)

150  This goes to show you why Obie is an awful CnC. Man's been running a war for 3 weeks and alreayd blew it

Posted by: Marion "Cobra" Cobretti at March 31, 2011 10:43 AM (XvHmy)

151 I thought the end starts on May 21.

Posted by: Chuckit at March 31, 2011 11:00 AM (Gpoyx)

152

America under BHO...A joke.

It will take decades to undo what this President has done and thats if the group to fix it, stays in power long enough to finish it.

How can, in one Century we see both the greatest and the worst generations?  The way things are going right now,we all have to accept the very real possibility that our American children may have to raise their families in abject poverty because of these a-holes.

Posted by: moemo at March 31, 2011 11:03 AM (jYoCE)

153 "The most important part about the speech, not the most important, but the newsmaking part about the speech, which frankly most people have missed, is the President of the United States said we are going to assist the Libyan opposition."

Winning the future.

Posted by: Fareed Zakaria at March 31, 2011 11:31 AM (kb0wl)

154 Obama has given up on being Carter. He now wants to be the next LBJ.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at March 31, 2011 11:36 AM (2n5kn)

Posted by: sTevo at March 31, 2011 11:46 AM (DYqkZ)

156 I bet there are alot of fetching pictures of Michelle out there... unless Bo got to the stick first.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 31, 2011 11:52 AM (/wCSE)

157 158 Damn

Posted by: sTevo at March 31, 2011 04:46 PM (DYqkZ)

GAIA Murderers!  Just think of all the CO2!

Posted by: Moonbat McFuckstick at March 31, 2011 11:56 AM (NtXW4)

158 It's a dumb war, for dumb reasons, at a dumb fucking time.

End it.

Posted by: MlR at March 31, 2011 12:24 PM (uxyPr)

159
I'd hit it, but the Claudia Schiffer of NA?

Not even close.

Posted by: thebronze at March 31, 2011 12:53 PM (bIuCV)

160

145  Considering that it would be: former  goodwill ambassador, mother of three, and victim of American aggression that at nine left her holding her dead sister's smoking remains in the rubble of their bombed home when Ronald Reagan decided to strike...

Yeah, yeah, they've got a good point about us suddenly turning sqeamish.

And for all we know this psycopathic scrunt would broker a deal with AQ in the "rebels" numbers; they hug, schmooze, kiss, make up...and then where are we?

And God help us if we do take the bitch out -- Americans will be up in arms; yes, even conservatives or whatever...because a Democrat is in office, so it's now "ok" to hate "his" military (yeah, I'm still seething)...I've got now ex friends (very R, although now I'm thinking they've watched too much msm and are starting to become some strange libertarian hybrid something or other) who are parrotting Dem talking points about the soldiers now that Obama is in office, it just took that...that's bullshit, but that's the way it is.  And the true freaking anti-American believers aren't budging just because their wonder boy is in office...so now our military has to deal with even more people from the looks of it, all fo the left and now part of the right.

Where's that freaking volcano when you need it...we should take out the Duck's legions of death, including his hateful bitch daughter and maybe even his nasty little urchin grandkids (just to be safe and just because), and the rebels too...but we won't because our troops can't.

 

 

Posted by: unknown jane at March 31, 2011 01:26 PM (5/yRG)

161

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Posted by: discount nhl jerseys at March 31, 2011 04:36 PM (OzXN4)

162 Geezum Ace, seriously? You can actually say with a straight face "I was counting on his basic pacifism to serve as a proxy for those virtues and keep our involvement in the skies"?  ...But are "less confident of that now"? All I can think is ... Wow.

So, just curious. What ever gave you the idea he was a pacifist? He was raised by communists, and by activists ones at that. Or that this would be a quick in and out sky operation? Because he said so? Did it never occur to you that the more he said over and over and over again that there would be no "ground troops" that the probability increased exponentially every time he said it? And I think, more importantly, why was it exactly you supported an "intervention" in the first place? Every time they open their f'ing collectivist mouths they give their game away. It's the f'ing UN with their Samantha Power's jew hating, commie f'ing loving inspired doctrine of "Responsibility to Protect." They are f'ing commies Ace trying to outsmart Islamists. All of them are the farthest thing from pacifism. I'm just sayin' Ace. But, hey, at least you're, umm, worried now at least.

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