June 29, 2012

Obama's "Crowning Achievement" Is... A Tax
— Ace

Before that, let me agree with Legal Insurrection: This is a loss, and a bad one. It can be avenged, and it can be undone, but the cheerleaders claiming this is some kind of victory are addlepated.

Sure, we now are motivated for November. And maybe in the end we will get rid of Obamacare.

But that is then and this is now. And under any reasonable theory of conservative judicial restraint, the Chief Justice should have allowed Obamacare to fall of its own weight, of a weight born of a political process in which the mandate could not be called a tax because the nation would not have stood for it.

This is now, and today we should have been rid of this monstrosity.

We live to fight another day, but don’t tell me we won because someday possibly in the future in some other case with some other set of Justices we maybe might achieve some doctrinal benefit from the Commerce Clause ruling.

So please don’t delude yourselves. Today was a bitter loss because it was one we should have won.

But now, about that ObamaTax.

Now, Republicans can attack the law not only for being “big government” but for being a huge tax during in weak economy, adding burdens to middle class taxpayers and slowing economic growth. And the GOP doesn’t have to come up with a detailed plan to “replace” Obama’s health care plan.

“Since politics is the ultimate zero-sum game,” writes Quinnipiac’s Brown,” what’s good for Obama is bad for Romney.”

Well, maybe, but in this case there are two issues – the legal and the political.

The Court’s decision doesn’t undercut Romney’s opposition to the law. Instead, it gives him more political ammunition: taxes.

So in the end, the Court’s ruling is something of a split decision: A big legal win for President Obama that enhances the Republicans’ political position heading to November.

That said, we already could call it a tax, or tax-like; I don't think we get anything more from the Court's characterization of it as a tax.

But we ought to try, anyway. And the RNC is already trying:

I was annoyed that they didn't include audio of Obama's Solicitor General arguing it's a tax -- because that really makes the connection. To the public, he says it's not a tax; in court, he says it is.

The ad, as it stands, leaves open the possibility, in the minds of those who don't know, that the Supreme Court came up with this characterization themselves.

They didn't. Obama's lawyer argued it.

Oh: See the funny photoshop at the end of this post.

Posted by: Ace at 04:36 AM | Comments (178)
Post contains 452 words, total size 3 kb.

1

ad·dle·pat·ed ( d l-p t d). adj. 1. Befuddled; confused. 2. Eccentric; peculiar

 

I'll save everyone the trouble

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 04:41 AM (C2Y4l)

2 First but discouraged.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 29, 2012 04:41 AM (CP+yl)

3 Now I'm discouraged I wasn't first.

Second? And bravely persevering?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 29, 2012 04:42 AM (CP+yl)

4 I'll get this correct ye.

fourth?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 29, 2012 04:42 AM (CP+yl)

5 Drudge has the link to Barry's twitter about this. And it is..."Still a BFD". "Still a BFD" from the president of the United States. Thank you Barry Choom for showing us what you really are. An immature, ignorant, uneducated, classless gutter snip

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 04:42 AM (1Jaio)

6 Obama's lawyer argued it. Do you think the majority of people even care what the lawyers arguing the case say? If it isn't some Kardashian saying it, they won't listen anyway.

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 04:43 AM (HOOye)

7 Jimmy Carter just e-mailed, "Miss me yet?"

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 04:44 AM (UOM48)

8 A tax is tax of course of course
And no one can pay the tax of course
that is of course unless of course
you're the feckless John Roberts.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 29, 2012 04:44 AM (CP+yl)

9 Who gives a shit. The media won't report it. And Obama doesn't have to answer any question he doesn't vet first. So the odds of him being held accountable are 0 and none. Also the biggest factor is his supporters don't care he lied to get it passed. They endorse lying as a legitimate political tactic

Posted by: Mr Pink at June 29, 2012 04:44 AM (GZhKn)

10 GW's sitting out at the ranch with a smirk on his face.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 29, 2012 04:44 AM (CP+yl)

11 5... true, I'm also looking forward to the JEF giving the finger itching his note at Romney during this campaign season ...

Posted by: SoCalMe at June 29, 2012 04:44 AM (s72/N)

12 I'm burnt out. I need a recharge break. My guts havn't stopped churning.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 04:45 AM (9TTOe)

13 5 Drudge has the link to Barry's twitter about this. And it is..."Still a BFD". "Still a BFD" from the president of the United States. Thank you Barry Choom for showing us what you really are. An immature, ignorant, uneducated, classless gutter snip

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 09:42 AM (1Jaio




I linked that in the thread below.  Most classless thing I've heard from a president.  "Still a BFD."  Stay classy, you jugeared jackass. 



Some of the comments on twitter were pretty good.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 04:45 AM (UOM48)

14

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (UOM4

 

 

OT: Did anything ever come about with a possible Savannah moron meetup?

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 04:46 AM (JxMoP)

15 If you lie to Congress, or they believe you do, you get tried like Roger Clemens.  If you lie to the FBI, you get tried like Scooter Libby and sent to prison for pretty much nothing except being the fall guy for the dems. 

If you lie to the American people, you get to spike the football in their faces, bitches!

Posted by: huerfano at June 29, 2012 04:46 AM (bAGA/)

16 Also the biggest factor is his supporters don't care he lied to get it passed. They endorse lying as a legitimate political tactic

Posted by: Mr Pink at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (GZhKn)




This is nothing new, they did the same thing with Slick Willie. In fact, liberalism/communism is nothing but a big lie perpetuated by more lies. They're doing it for the churren, for granny, for the poor etc. It's all a lie to cover up their power grab

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 04:47 AM (1Jaio)

17 *sigh I miss Breitbart. We need to keep fighting the good battle, folks.

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 04:47 AM (HOOye)

18 I'm neck deep in preparations for my town's 4th of July celebrations. I'll do my part, like I said I would. But after delivering the food, I'm coming home. There is nothing to celebrate. America isn't the Land of the Free. Not anymore.

Posted by: Pecos at June 29, 2012 04:48 AM (2Gb0y)

19  My guts havn't stopped churning.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 09:45 AM (9TTOe)

 

But Ace's fingers haven't stopped typing.  Three!  Count 'em!  Three posts before 10 a.m.!  The Valu-Rite truck must be stuck in traffic!

Posted by: RushBabe at June 29, 2012 04:48 AM (tQHzJ)

20 14 Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (UOM4


OT: Did anything ever come about with a possible Savannah moron meetup?

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 09:46 AM (JxMoP)




Not yet.  One of my two closest friends is losing her brief battle with lung cancer. 



We're hitting 100 degrees today, and tomorrow the heat index will be 115.  I'm thinking a meet-up this fall will be way more comfortable for everyone.  Depending on my friend, of course.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 04:48 AM (UOM48)

21 It was a loss, period. Nuance is not helpful here. It has been my personal revelation of the last three years that you cannot win an argument with a liberal ... ever. But you can win elections. They still won't admit intellectual defeat (they never will in anything) but they cow to the vote of the people. That's why they try to cheat so much on votes. At any rate, yesterday was a loss, an ugly one, but it was not the final battle. November can be. My guess is that the nation is Wisconsin and yesterday just riled the right to victory.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at June 29, 2012 04:49 AM (deaac)

22 twitterpated

[twit-er-pey-tid]  adjective Informal .

excited or overcome by romantic feelings; smitten.

Example sentence. The Ewok was twitterpated at he sight of Marco Rubio's garbage.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 29, 2012 04:49 AM (tf9Ne)

23 ut Ace's fingers haven't stopped typing. Three! Count 'em! Three posts before 10 a.m.! The Valu-Rite truck must be stuck in traffic! Posted by: RushBabe at June 29, 2012 09:48 AM (tQHzJ) -------- yeah, at least I was able to get away from all of this for most of the day, yesterday Ace, basically cannot. Really need to take a break this weekend, guys.

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 04:50 AM (HOOye)

24 Barack Hussein Obama.
Giving the middle finger to the middle class since 2008.

Posted by: antisocialist at June 29, 2012 04:50 AM (j/nZn)

25 Barack Obama says "I'm still a...

Posted by: Big F'n Douche" at June 29, 2012 04:51 AM (UAUr6)

26 So Roberts calls it a tax.  Does Obama have to call it a tax?  No.  Do democrats in congress have to say it's a tax?  No.  Do liberals in the media have to say it's a tax?  No.

If conservative writers think that a great public relations nightmare has dropped on the heads of the democrats,  they are wrong.

The law states otherwise.  It's says it's not a tax.  One guy in a black robe calls it a tax.  Woop-dee-effin'-doo.

We.  Are.  Screwed.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 04:51 AM (Ky1+e)

27 According to an article linked at Drudge, congress could arrest Holder right now, and have used that power in the past. Why isn't this guy sitting in a cell right now?

Posted by: Hal Burton at June 29, 2012 04:52 AM (iYvMQ)

28 Triage and salvage.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 04:52 AM (AWmfW)

29 I think when you combine the most diverse population ever assembled on the planet, that occupies one of the most geograpically diverse nations on the planet spanning 3,000 miles of land, and one of the most politically diverse populations on the planet, with the most potent, most technologically advanced economy ever evolved...and then you shovel this incoherent, unpopular DC-BS at that population, coupled with the highest rate of gun ownership in the world...IT WILL NOT END WELL.   

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 29, 2012 04:53 AM (Ec6wH)

30 So, now we can cancel our health insurance if we are healthy, pay the $100 "fine", and then years down the road, when we need surgery, buy insurance. yep, this is going to work just fine

Posted by: cicero skip at June 29, 2012 04:53 AM (3m9Uc)

31 Gotta love how pissy JEF is with his pal George in the video.  What a thin-skinned, lying douche.

All his life he's been told how super-smart and special he is.  Hope he gets a rude awakening in November and loses in a landslide.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 04:53 AM (UOM48)

32 LOL, they won't say it's a tax. Couple videos over at Free Beacon. Stephanie Cutter: Obama Deputy Campaign Manager and Axeldouche, of course Won't say the "T" word. F*cking conmen.

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 04:54 AM (HOOye)

33

Not yet. One of my two closest friends is losing her brief battle with lung cancer.

 

 

Ouch, sorry to hear that. Prayers and best wishes.

 

I am just on the other side of the river (takes me about 20 minutes to get downtown) so whatever happens I would probably be in.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 04:55 AM (JxMoP)

34 Been reading James Webbs' book on the Scots-Irish. When King Edward I of England decimated Berwick, then the biggest city in Scotland, he thought it was a BFD. He thought he'd cowed the Scottish elite (he had). He thought he'd won. Instead, he caused a guy named William Wallace to come out of the hills, elbow to elbow with his fellow Scots. Edwards' victory at Berwick was indeed a phyrric one. I'd estimate 50% of the Tea Party today has Scots-Irish roots. It definitely is infused with the William Wallace spirit. Enjoy your BFD today, Barry. You're going down in November and that's going to be a RBBVD (really big Big Effing Deal).

Posted by: MaxMBJ at June 29, 2012 04:55 AM (deaac)

35

>>>So Roberts calls it a tax. Does Obama have to call it a tax? No.
Do democrats in congress have to say it's a tax? No. Do liberals in
the media have to say it's a tax? No.

 

Indeed. This is the biggest problem and why it isn't even a political victory.

Out of 100 Americans, how many know it was upheld by the SCOTUS b/c it was a tax? I'd say 5.

I watched the networks last night. They all said Obamacare was upheld, none went into details. So you average low information voter simply knows Obamacare was upheld.

If the media were telling everyone it is now a tax, then more people might know, but as of right now nothing changed.

Obamacare is still a law and if we start bitching about it being a tax, then we're just refighting a battle we lost (in the view of a low information voter).

 

This was a complete rout. Either we win the Senate and White House next year or Obamacare is law of the land until our fiscal collapse.

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 04:55 AM (C2Y4l)

36 Another BFD :  US attorney general Eric Holder was found to be in criminal contempt .  First time in history , I believe...It's comforting to know that the US attorney general - the chief legal officer in the land , is a criminal. But then he did spend a lot of time with Clinton.

Posted by: runner at June 29, 2012 04:55 AM (WR5xI)

37 I think the reason that Verilli is not in the Broken Promise ad, is because it's too early. Obama is going to come out (because of his ego) and say something like "Our administration has never argued that this was a tax." THEN and only then is it valuable to post the Verilli argument, and in the context of "lies upon lies."

Posted by: Gov98 at June 29, 2012 04:55 AM (h2ahx)

38 OK, guys.  I'm TRYING to affect hearts and minds of liberal squishes on Facebook this morning.  All the legal twisting of the Commerce clause aside, I could use some more robust arguments on how it's going to affect someone INDIVIDUALLY.  In the pocketbook.

I'm trying to find something on the internet about the following:

1.  If you do have insurance, but it doesn't meet the levels of the Obama plan, will you have to pony up the difference?  Or just get moved over to Medicaid?  Will IRS wage garnishment take the difference?

2.  If you have a BETTER plan, will you have to pay a fine for a "Cadillac" plan?

3.  Predictions on job losses throughout the country, as employers calculate the cost/benefit analysis on this. 

4.  If you lose your job and can't afford the COBRA, what then?  Automatic Medicaid?  Or an IRS fine?

I want to try to win over some hearts and minds here, folks.  Links in nics would be great.

Posted by: In the Belly of the Beast, aka Kathy in MD at June 29, 2012 04:55 AM (A5iH4)

39

Wonder if W is going to call into Rush's show?  I was listening a few years ago when W was acting President and I swear to God he sounded drunk.  So much for his legacy. 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 29, 2012 04:56 AM (Ec6wH)

40 Avenge meeeee!!!

Posted by: wicket's father at June 29, 2012 04:56 AM (nrW1y)

41 So, now we can cancel our health insurance if we are healthy, pay the $100 "fine", and then years down the road, when we need surgery, buy insurance. yep, this is going to work just fine

Posted by: cicero skip at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (3m9Uc)

-----

Thats when they'll parade the sad sacks before congress to testify on their plight, and the only "compassionate" thing for both sides to do will be to enact single payer. By then the public will have almost forgotten who caused it, but will suspect it was the republicans, since they hate poor people.

Posted by: Hal Burton at June 29, 2012 04:56 AM (iYvMQ)

42

It's a loss, but it's a political loss. We lost it when we lost the 2008 election and when we lost the political fight against enactment of the law.

 

I don't like relying on the court to fix my political losses.

 

Keep in mind that if the court had overturned Obamacare, the political fight against Obamacare II would have begun immediately. The Left won't stop on this and other government expansion. Ever. It's why they exist. A ruling against Obamacare would not be a gamechanger. It would have just set up the next political battle.

 

The good news is, the Right is better at creating a limited government narrative than it's ever been - better than in 2008, for sure. The liberal media gatekeepers are dying off. America's fate will ultimately be decided our culture and politics, as always, not the courts.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 04:57 AM (9KqcB)

43 The law states otherwise. It's says it's not a tax. One guy in a black robe calls it a tax. Woop-dee-effin'-doo. We. Are. Screwed. Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:51 AM (Ky1+e) Scary, isn't it? Everyone basically knows politicians lie, and they accept it. So Libs lie. Every time they talk. And, it just doesn't matter. The dummying down of America continues....

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 04:57 AM (HOOye)

44 Taxi, taxi here comes another Barky tax!

Posted by: Killerdog at June 29, 2012 04:57 AM (TAT66)

45

>>Wonder if W is going to call into Rush's show? I was listening a few years ago when W was acting President and I swear to God he sounded drunk. So much for his legacy.

 

I still don't get why people think George Bush would be made about what happened?

 

What in his record makes you think he would be mad that Obamacare expanded government control over healthcare?

This is the same President who expanded medicare without finding a way to pay for it.

This is the "I abandoned free market capitalism to save it" president.

 

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 04:57 AM (C2Y4l)

46
Won't say the "T" word.


F*cking conmen.

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (HOOye)


To suck their dicks , Roberts imagine he calls it a tax.


Bush legacy keeps on giving.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 04:57 AM (AWmfW)

47

And if anyone thinks this isn't going to energize the MBM and the liberal base for the elections, you're delusional about more than this huge loss.

 

Not only do we have a herculean task trying to motivate our own elected officials to repeal this monstrosity (and that's not anywhere close to a guarantee), but Mitt Romney is no guarantee against this thing or even picking justices any better than Roberts, Kennedy, or Souter for that matter.

 

ace and the Morons need to put as much energy into this as they did Weinergate and do it for the next 7 months.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 04:57 AM (rX1N2)

48

*mad

 

*sips coffee*

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 04:58 AM (C2Y4l)

49 Well, don't look at Rasmussen if you're expecting good news (mind you, it's only one day, but spare yourself a few extra heartbeats). 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 29, 2012 04:58 AM (Ec6wH)

50 Damn I sleep late and not only miss getting the news out, I miss Ace being on fire.  I gave up yesterday and got drunk rather than do primeval screaming on here.


The meme today is how much this is helping Republicans.  Well, that may be so but my guess is electing Republicans unless we can magically change all the Blue commie States is not going to help.


What we need is an Article V convention. This crap has gone beyond politics now. The people need to speak, not the frakin politicians. 

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 04:58 AM (YdQQY)

51

...decided *by* our culture and politics...

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 04:59 AM (9KqcB)

52 Am I totally disgusted with this decision? Yep.
Am I surprised at it? Not really - these fuckers have made it abundantly clear that they can, and will, do pretty much whatever the hell they want, and do so with impunity.
Do I, therefore, give up?
OH. HELL. NO.
It's time to do more. It's time to get louder, more insistent. Come off some of that beer money, give it to a legitimate CONSERVATIVE candidate, volunteer, talk it up.
OBlameO may have won this battle, but the war isn't quite over yet. Not by half.

Posted by: antisocialist at June 29, 2012 04:59 AM (j/nZn)

53 36Another BFD : US attorney general Eric Holder was found to be in criminal contempt . First time in history , I believe...

Posted by: runner at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (WR5xI)

 

___________________________

 

 

 

And he will flaunt it fully.  And laugh.  It will demonstrate how lawless this admin is, but we already knew that.  The media will call it racism, the plebs will be indifferent or agree that it is indeed racism, and the most criminal administration in the history of the US, and possibly the Western Hemisphere, will roll along as usual.

 

Posted by: Reactionary at June 29, 2012 05:00 AM (xUM1Q)

54 Another "dread" point is that a lot of this crap doesn't go into affect until after the elections. People just don't get it until it smacks them straight in the face. The "young" voters who swooned over Obama? Will they even know they will be charged a fee? No. When will they know? When the IRS comes after them.

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 05:00 AM (HOOye)

55 The good news is, the Right is better at creating a limited government narrative than it's ever been - better than in 2008, for sure. The liberal media gatekeepers are dying off. America's fate will ultimately be decided our culture and politics, as always, not the courts.

 

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 09:57 AM (9KqcB)

 

So The Good News is something that has no historical precedent?  Our fate is decided by our culture?

 

Wow.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:01 AM (rX1N2)

56 I read that taxes can be rescinded through reconciliation with a simple majority in the Senate. Possibility if we can flip a couple of Dems.

Posted by: Weimdog at June 29, 2012 05:01 AM (i6W0A)

57 So, at the little po-dunk hospital where I work,we got the email from management yesterday. Basically it said the official line was that the Hospital was pleased with the SC decision and that if anyone would like to share a different opinion with anyone outside the organization, they too, will become outside the organization. Therefore, I think the abolition of my last remaining little bit of civil liberty is just fucking great.

Posted by: Artruen at June 29, 2012 05:01 AM (fDGF1)

58 Gotta love how pissy JEF is with his pal George in the video. What a thin-skinned, lying douche.

All his life he's been told how super-smart and special he is. Hope he gets a rude awakening in November and loses in a landslide.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (UOM4



He can't handle any sort of questioning of himself. Remember when Paul Ryan just took him apart with questioning on ObamaTax. I hope that Mitt takes off the gloves in the debates and Super Cool Barry has a little hissy fit and shows what a miserable, whiny little prick that he is

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 05:01 AM (1Jaio)

59 49 Well, don't look at Rasmussen if you're expecting good news (mind you, it's only one day, but spare yourself a few extra heartbeats). Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 29, 2012 09:58 AM (Ec6wH) --------- already made that mistake

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 05:02 AM (HOOye)

60 My Friday morning fruit punch has an odd wang flavoring in it.

Posted by: Fritz at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (/ZZCn)

61 33 Not yet. One of my two closest friends is losing her brief battle with lung cancer.


Ouch, sorry to hear that. Prayers and best wishes.

I am just on the other side of the river (takes me about 20 minutes to get downtown) so whatever happens I would probably be in.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (JxMoP




I'll plan something.  I really look forward to getting together with members of the horde.  We need to keep each other up-beat and strong this election.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (UOM48)

62 Either we win the Senate and White House next year or Obamacare is law of the land until our fiscal collapse.

 

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (C2Y4l)

 

You do realize you're pinning your hopes on some rather large assumptions if we win right?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (rX1N2)

63 Remember, it's a racist lie to accurately quote a liberal.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (VtjlW)

64 Humility, class and courage http://tinyurl.com/854lqjb

Posted by: I have the President's back at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (4eNxd)

65 Who gives a shit. The media won't report it.

I'm sure they all got those "Cadillac" plans.  When they realize they're going to be penalized and taxed for having too much health care, I'm betting a few of them shake their heads and say "what the fuck?"

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (vJ6vx)

66

Been reading James Webbs' book on the Scots-Irish - MaxMBJ

 

"Born Fighting" good book, Webb can write, even if he's turned into a communist since his days in the Reagan administration. I'd like to think you are right...I guess we'll see.

 

Jane, Ghost, keep me posted on the Savannah meetup, out on the Islands right now. Prayers for your friend Jane.

Posted by: hobbes at June 29, 2012 05:03 AM (OEQY9)

67 57 So, at the little po-dunk hospital where I work,we got the email from management yesterday. Basically it said the official line was that the Hospital was pleased with the SC decision and that if anyone would like to share a different opinion with anyone outside the organization, they too, will become outside the organization. Therefore, I think the abolition of my last remaining little bit of civil liberty is just fucking great.

Posted by: Artruen at June 29, 2012 10:01 AM (fDGF1)


Have you paid the tax to express your free opinion?

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 29, 2012 05:05 AM (AWmfW)

68 This form of tax seems to raise the complexity of taxes to another order of magnitude. The tax law is too complex as it is, but taxpayers could theoretically just search for the things that apply to them. I’m sure we all make mistakes every year, but it’s at least possible to know. Now we have to know all the things we aren’t doing as well? As this type of tax spreads beyond this one law, that’s going to approach infinite complexity.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 29, 2012 05:06 AM (2v+KF)

69

"I don't think we get anything more from the Court's characterization of it as a tax."

 

actually i think we do. i think it reinforces in some people's mind that this will cost them money in a way that thinking its a mandate just doesnt do. perception is a funny thing and i believe that a fair amount of the people who supported this law just didnt realize it would cost them and now seeing its a tax will change that perception.

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 05:06 AM (TKF1Y)

70 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 09:58 AM (YdQQY)

I think that the "meme" is full of shit.

The only people who are energized by this weren't going to vote for Obama (pbuh) anyway.

The squishy idiots in the middle might very well think that since the Supreme Court validated Obama's (pbuh) shit sandwich it must be a good thing.

If Romney can take advantage of this by denouncing it as an economy-killing tax, then I guess that's a good thing. But I am going to wait and see how he uses it before I stop being disgusted.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:06 AM (nEUpB)

71 Have you paid the tax to express your free opinion?

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 29, 2012 10:05 AM (AWmfW)

First you have to pay the tax to HAVE a free opinion; the "expressing your opinion" assessment comes after that.

Posted by: antisocialist at June 29, 2012 05:06 AM (j/nZn)

72 America's fate will ultimately be decided our culture and politics, as always, not the courts.

...have you seen our culture and politics lately?

I'm just this close to just looking for a nice, quiet corner to live out my days in peace.  If the rest of the world wants to rush like lemmings to their doom, well, I'm about done trying to stop them..

Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at June 29, 2012 05:06 AM (GBXon)

73

So The Good News is something that has no historical precedent?

 

Wha? 

 

Our fate is decided by our culture?

 

Our fate as a nation is not ultimatley decided by court rulings. It's decided by the political process, which is driven by culture.   

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:06 AM (9KqcB)

74

According to an article linked at Drudge, congress could arrest Holder right now, and have used that power in the past. Why isn't this guy sitting in a cell right now?

Posted by: Hal Burton at June 29, 2012 09:52 AM (iYvMQ)

 

 

 

Because he is Black?????

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 29, 2012 05:07 AM (mFxQX)

75 #66 hobbes, will do.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:07 AM (UOM48)

76 Obama's crowning achievement is imposing the Jizya.


Posted by: Rogue Space Herpe at June 29, 2012 05:08 AM (9rZJb)

77

...have you seen our culture and politics lately?

 

Yeah. We have work to do, and the Left had a head start.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:08 AM (9KqcB)

78 So, at the little po-dunk hospital where I work,we got the email from management yesterday. Basically it said the official line was that the Hospital was pleased with the SC decision and that if anyone would like to share a different opinion with anyone outside the organization, they too, will become outside the organization. Therefore, I think the abolition of my last remaining little bit of civil liberty is just fucking great.
Posted by: Artruen at June 29, 2012 10:01 AM


At what point will they instruct you on which candidates to support?  Probably closer to the election, huh.

Posted by: huerfano at June 29, 2012 05:09 AM (bAGA/)

79 Well, well well.....

Beck just played audio of Jan Shakowsky (Douchette- IL) saying that Obamacare is a tax.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:09 AM (UOM48)

80 As to the link on Drudge saying the House could arrest Holder using "inherent contempt" power - I've worked for the Department of Defense for almost 30 years, and I guaran-damn-tee you that if it were one of us low-life aircraft mechanics, we'd be in jail before the last vote was counted.

Posted by: antisocialist at June 29, 2012 05:09 AM (j/nZn)

81 I was gonna be gracious in victory, but then I got high ...

Posted by: president choom at June 29, 2012 05:10 AM (QupBk)

82 >>So, now we can cancel our health insurance if we are healthy

If you get it through your employer, they've been given massive financial incentives to cancel it for you.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:10 AM (ZKzrr)

83 I have a question.  Just what surgeons, specialists, ob/gyn's, etc. do the lovers of Obamacare think will still be around to become slaves to this monstrosity?


Posted by: jjmurphy at June 29, 2012 05:11 AM (gWO5X)

84 I think that the "meme" is full of shit.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (nEUpB)


I think you are right.  And I don't think the Republican politicians are going to do a damned thing but make some more mouth work and vocal help.


The SOB's can't even cut spending in the House where they have a huge majority.


As I said, we need an Article V convention because the alternative to that is too ghastly to entertain.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:11 AM (YdQQY)

85 As this type of tax spreads beyond this one law, that’s going to approach infinite complexity.

When empires die its rarely from battlefield defeat.  They're consumed from within.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:11 AM (vJ6vx)

86 actually i think we do. i think it reinforces in some people's mind that this will cost them money in a way that thinking its a mandate just doesnt do. perception is a funny thing and i believe that a fair amount of the people who supported this law just didnt realize it would cost them and now seeing its a tax will change that perception.

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (TKF1Y)



I heard on a Chicago radio station the DJ and news reader (2 Barry loving half wits) stumbling into the truth. The news reader said, so by 2014 if you don't have insurance you better get it or pay a fine. The DJ said, You have to pay a fine? What if I don't want it? It was like the first time they heard this. Then dead air. You could almost hear the truth sinking into their thick skulls. If I don't have what Barry wants I have to pay for it and I don't have a choice about it

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 05:11 AM (1Jaio)

87 It's a tax!

Posted by: Adm. Akbar at June 29, 2012 05:11 AM (yn6XZ)

88

#38,

Any small business that has over 49 employees is screwed. The small family business I contract with had tried to stay there and they risked expanding this year to 150. They have been told SCOAMFcare will cost them approx. $3000/employee. Guess what? Out of f*cking business!

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at June 29, 2012 05:12 AM (W3UHW)

89

"So The Good News is something that has no historical precedent?

Wha?

You said: "The right is better at creating a limited government narrative that it's ever been"

 

This narrative doesn't really seem to be doing so well right now does it?  The right hasn't really followed through on that whole limited government thing have they?

 

And as another commenter pointed out - have you actually seen our culture lately?  Ignorance, apathy, brainwashed, poorly educated, disengaged

 


You know, the culture that elected Obama in the first place?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:12 AM (rX1N2)

90 So the Obama Health Care Tax is a tax?

Posted by: fluffy, not ready to fill in for Captain Obvious at June 29, 2012 05:13 AM (z9HTb)

91 79 Well, well well.....

Beck just played audio of Jan Shakowsky (Douchette- IL) saying that Obamacare is a tax.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 10:09 AM (UOM4

t shirt on Beck's website, picture of Roberts and underneath the word "C O W A R D" in great big letters....

http://tinyurl.com/bs4v6


Posted by: starry at June 29, 2012 05:13 AM (oZfic)

92 5 Drudge has the link to Barry's twitter about this. And it is..."Still a BFD". Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 09:42 AM (1Jaio) No, it's a BFT... Big Fucking Tax. His signature legislation sounds like an order in a greasy spoon. "I'll have a big money sandwich and a milkshake."

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 29, 2012 05:13 AM (i330i)

93 That video doesn't even come remotely close to showing how dubious this POS legislation was passed, how it works, and what it will do. Try again shitheads. Still very much pissed, at least co-worker brought me fresh pecan pie... prolly gonna eat the whole fucking thing in one sitting.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 05:13 AM (UZQM8)

94 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:11 AM (YdQQY)

And we'll get amendments like:

Right to an abortion
Right to privacy
Right to healthcare
Right to affordable housing
Right to a "living wage."

Be careful what you wish for....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (nEUpB)

95 Yeah. We have work to do, and the Left had a head start.

Hope you have a mass miracle in your back pocket then, because otherwise I get the feeling we're trying to develop a long game at the two minute warning.

Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (GBXon)

96 And good morning Morons.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (UZQM8)

97 Headline over at Yahoo: "Did Roberts Save the Supreme Court?"

I'm not going to click, but I cannot imagine what he "saved" the court from.  The wrath of MSNBC?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (i0App)

98 At what point will they instruct you on which candidates to support? Probably closer to the election, huh. The (small, private) University where I work sent out a message in May asking us to sign petitions and contact our state legislator to ensure that California keeps Cal Grants going. We apparently get over 1.9 million in Cal Grants via students. Which means, of course, that the specter of losing them “are frightening” and “will result in negative budget implications”. Well, it’s true, I’m sure. But I personally blame the administration that made us so dependent on largesse from a government that can’t afford it.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (2v+KF)

99 Any small business that has over 49 employees is screwed. The small family business I contract with had tried to stay there and they risked expanding this year to 150. They have been told SCOAMFcare will cost them approx. $3000/employee. Guess what? Out of f*cking business!

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at June 29, 2012 10:12 AM (W3UHW)




I would encourage any business owner to inform their employees that because of ObamaTax their healthcare costs are going up substantially and they need to cut costs. And then fire every Obama supporter who works for them

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (1Jaio)

100 << When they realize they're going to be penalized and taxed for having too much health care, I'm betting a few of them shake their heads and say "what the fuck?" >>

As long as they believe people who aren't them or aren't like them are getting *more* fucked than they are—if they see people they hate, 'baggers and Palinites and NASCAR-logo-hat losers, raging or moaning about how fucked they are—they'll fully support their own portion of the fucking. For the greater fucking.

This is, like, Rule Zero of politics.

Posted by: nope at June 29, 2012 05:15 AM (cePv8)

101 Yeah, I agree this was a strained reading to uphold a major legislative enactment. Easier, and certainly better judicial practice as a general matter, to overturn it as written than to “defer” by finding a constitutional basis for the action taken. But when you’re shifting the gestalt from the highest court, you’re going to have to guide Congress’s hand, rather than passively thumbs-uping, thumbs-downing their actions on the grounds argued based on past precedent. New rules of the Roberts Court: Bold and expensive policy should properly be justified and forthrightly debated under the Tax and Spend clauses, rather than under all these super-secret penumbral ninja powers. I’m nearly of the view that this is a win-win-win situation. Conservatives won on the constitutional issues, have the opportunity to apply good ol’ fashioned democracy to fight an election fight over the repeal of an unpopular bit of policy, all the while, having liberals hailing the legitimacy and judiciousness of our Supreme Court and its Chief Justice. The “right” constitutional interpretation, probably the Kennedy dissent’s view, would be widely viewed as illegitimate results-based hackery by the influential hordes who threaten a coup every time a Republican wins/”steals” an election. It’s just exhausting to “win” under those circumstances. There’s a real limit on the power of right when it’s delegitimized by those who have come to see constitutional interpretation as a mere partisan matter. If the law had been struck down on Kennedy’s opinion, we would have spiked the football, vindicated, then watched as the news media interviewed gravely-concerned academics giving rhetorical cover to marches, riots and protests calling for judicial impeachments and constitutional conventions. Not to mention hours of free airtime dedicated to angry Democrats promising retaliation in the form of bolder proposals for single-payer healthcare programs. You may say that's what you wanted, but I don't think you really do. I don't think this "victory" you think we "should have won" would have been very satisfying for long. Great, we'd have the same constitutional precedent we have now, but with an angry polis viewing it as illegitimate. Your fantasy where the left sits chastened and cowed by the brilliance of all the Republican appointees on the Supreme Court would never happen. And you, Ace, would be busy bitching how the Narrative, literally threatening to undo our Republic by extra-democratic means, was stealing our thunder. Anyway, this Act is a political debacle that needs to be knocked back in the political sphere rather than in the courts. I think it is an act of Marbury v. Madison brilliance to win on all these fronts while “deferring” an unpopular law to the realm of politics where it will decide an election, as it should.

Posted by: ss at June 29, 2012 05:15 AM (m2RwJ)

102 Just what surgeons, specialists, ob/gyn's, etc. do the lovers of Obamacare think will still be around to become slaves to this monstrosity?

The incompetent ones.  The competent will very soon band together and establish private clinics and mask their routine treatments under the guise of medical research.  Clients won't be "billed" for services, they'll just make "donations" to the "research efforts".

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:16 AM (vJ6vx)

103 Above was in response to " When they realize they're going to be penalized and taxed for having too much health care, I'm betting a few of them shake their heads and say "what the fuck?" "

Tag madness.

Posted by: nope at June 29, 2012 05:16 AM (cePv8)

104 Since I am not an accountant, or a tax lawyer, I have to ask for moron knowledge: What prevents a sole proprietorship from splitting into multiple entities to get below the employee limit on OCare, or other stuff for that matter. If Took Enterprises, Ltd has 80 employees, what prevents me from splitting into Took Management Services with 40 employees and Took Trading Company with 40 employees?

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:16 AM (QupBk)

105

When empires die its rarely from battlefield defeat. They're consumed from within.

 

 

We already have the debasing of the currency. Next on the plate is massive tax fraud by all members of society and a decrease in public services, in particular, public safety. Following that will be the growth of large private security firms that will eventually have their own legal authority. Then we all get to be serfs again. Yippee!

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 05:17 AM (JxMoP)

106 "Yeah. We have work to do, and the Left had a head start.

 

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 10:08 AM (9KqcB)"

 

Right, undoing decades of indoctination in public schools and universities and reversing decades of liberal infestation of pop culture.  All in the next election cycle.

 

We'll get right on that.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:17 AM (rX1N2)

107 Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (vJ6vx)

I like that idea!

Posted by: jjmurphy at June 29, 2012 05:18 AM (gWO5X)

108 Be careful what you wish for....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:14 AM (nEUpB)


Eeyore speak.  Remember each State gets one vote.  There are a lot more Red States than Blue States.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:18 AM (YdQQY)

109

Wow, so much Loserville here today.  Kind of disgusting.

 

IT'S A TAX.  Tt was ALWAYS a tax.  Barack Obama lied that it wasn't a tax.  Nancy Pelosi lied that it wasn't a tax. Harry Reid lied that it wasn't a tax.  Our side was goddamn stupid not to call it a tax from the get-go amd make those Democrats go on record voting for a giant fucking TAX ON THE MIDDLE CLASS.

 

John Roberts called Bullshit on all of them.  And you're attacking.....Roberts?

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 05:19 AM (aBlZ1)

110 The small family business I contract with had tried to stay there and they risked expanding this year to 150.

They need to gen up 4 phony corporations and spread the employee base among them.  I imagine a lot of businesses just over the 50 mark will start doing this.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:19 AM (vJ6vx)

111 IT'S A TAX. Tt was ALWAYS a tax. It's a penalty. Unless we can argue that a speeding ticket is just a tax on going fast.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:20 AM (QupBk)

112

Oh, and by the way, William Jacobson is a clown.  He should stick to running cute pictures of silly bumper stickers on his blog. 

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 05:20 AM (aBlZ1)

113

I would encourage any business owner to inform their employees that because of ObamaTax their healthcare costs are going up substantially and they need to cut costs. And then fire every Obama supporter who works for them

As an HR guy, I can tell you... you can do this.  Trust me, I'm working on a plan. 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 29, 2012 05:21 AM (Ec6wH)

114 >>i think it reinforces in some people's mind that this will cost them money in a way that thinking its a mandate just doesnt do.

I think it reinforces in people's minds that they're gonna be getting free shit paid for by evil rich people finally getting taxed like they deserve.

But I'm spending my days surrounded by young men who just got out of kollij, in a building full of people who drive to work in cars that sport Obama stickers presumably out of racial solidarity.  Dunno if they'll make the connection between their employer cutting their benefits and the bill Obama signed, but they're going to get a coupon from the government to pay for insurance, so why do they care? (I won't even mention the new federal agencies that will provide programs just for one race, because I don't want to get banned.)

(400% of poverty level...shit, that's me in the years I've been laid off and needed three months to find a new job. I'm simultaneously "rich" and qualified for welfare?  What the bloody hell?)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:21 AM (ZKzrr)

115 Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 10:14 AM (i0App)

"Chief Justice Roberts comes into his own and saves the Court while preventing a constitutional debacle"http://tinyurl.com/7do4zyr

When I saw this yesterday I realized it was a mind game of the greatest proportions.  It wasn't let us do what is right by the Constitution.  Let us do what is right for all the American people.  No, it was let us do what is right to help our fellow Harvard Law Graduate have 4 more years in office.

When Roberts said that Kagan wasn't recusing herself, you had to know he wasn't on the side of Conservatives or Republicans or the American people.   But it was one of those little things in the news that you didn't want to see.

Posted by: starry at June 29, 2012 05:22 AM (oZfic)

116 Basically it said the official line was that the Hospital was pleased with the SC decision and that if anyone would like to share a different opinion with anyone outside the organization, they too, will become outside the organization.


There's a morale builder.

Posted by: fluffy at June 29, 2012 05:22 AM (z9HTb)

117 I agree that this is a terrible loss, and that the only positive thing to come of it is the rallying of the masses to our side. 

But I think it's also given the Enemy a huge shot of energy for a dispirited, lackluster, money-losing campaign.  Yesterday was the worst day for America since the health care bill was first passed.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 05:23 AM (i0App)

118 I said it before and I'll say it again: In politics no win and no loss are final and complete. There is always another day. The Court has just moved the field of battle, that's all. And it has moved it to a place more favorable for us. So stop your whining, unless your goal is to make liberals smile in schadenfreude, and GET BACK TO WORK. We need the Oval Office, the House, and the Senate and we need them NOW. Go forward and fight.

Posted by: DriveBy at June 29, 2012 05:23 AM (C9Vc8)

119 >>Unless we can argue that a speeding ticket is just a tax on going fast.

It's a tax on not going slow.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:23 AM (ZKzrr)

120 Political affiliation is NOT one of the explicitly proscribed forms of discrimination in the EEOC regulations:

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/index.cfm


Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:24 AM (vJ6vx)

121

Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (QupBk)

 

Wondering the same  thing myself.  I'm about to try something different in my business with only a handful of employees and if I can make it work I can see my LLC getting to that dreaded 50 mark within a few years. 

 

This has always struck me as not only a backdoor for single payer, but as a way to stick it to large corporations that don't effectively pay taxes.  A midcap company can probably split up into different entities, but a large company can't.

 

Just another example of how fucked up this whole thing is - no one really seems to know.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:24 AM (rX1N2)

122 Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (QupBk) Had that same thought yesterday so you are not alone. And yes, people will do it, and if they get caught, OTax the benevolent will shake them down for their fair share, its the right thing to do, for the American People, and the children, and Gaia, and every other bullshit reason they come up with.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (UZQM8)

123 101

Except that i think Roberts validated the idea that "Bold and expensive policy should properly be justified and forthrightly debated under the Tax and Spend clauses, rather than under all these super-secret penumbral ninja powers" is explicitly NOT the case: as plenty of folks have pointed out, they were saying "it's not a tax!" all the way up to and past the vote on the ACA.  Looks like to me like Congress is welcome to lie about it, so long as it obviously is a tax, in which case the court will auto-correct their typo... Am i missing something that makes your take a more reasonable one?

(and by the way, thanks to eat chocolate and Charlie Brown from the last thread)

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (8Mgrk)

124 William Jacobsen IS NOT a clown and his blog is a fine one. This is no time to shoot fellow conservatives

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (DfJ0y)

125

Shove that Tax down their throat and make them choke on it. The ObamaTax. Hell call it the ObamaPunishmentTax.

 

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (GvYeG)

126 >>There's a morale builder.

And cover up all your bumper stickers before seek treatment from.  Good God.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:26 AM (ZKzrr)

127 "The only people who are energized by this weren't going to vote for Obama (pbuh) anyway. The squishy idiots in the middle might very well think that since the Supreme Court validated Obama's (pbuh) shit sandwich it must be a good thing." This is true. Worse, it makes conservatives who have been calling it unconstitutional look like a bunch of wackos. I think this cost us the presidential election, if we ever had any chance at that (we didn't).

Posted by: indigo child at June 29, 2012 05:27 AM (xXhWA)

128 IT'S A TAX. Tt was ALWAYS a tax.

It's a penalty. Unless we can argue that a speeding ticket is just a tax on going fast.

Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 10:20 AM (QupBk)

 

What do you think the definition of a tax is?  A speeding ticket is a fine for breaking the law.  You can't really "choose" to break the speed limit and just pay the "tax."  If you do that enough times, you lose your driver's license. Obamacare does not make it against the law to not have health insurance.  It just taxes you if you don't. 

 

It. Is. A. TAX.

 

People don't like taxes. 

 

If we can't wrap this around every Democrat's neck in November, including Barack Obama's, shame on us.

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (aBlZ1)

129 Fired up? Ready to go?

Posted by: Rex Harrison's Hat at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (2EXXy)

130 "So stop your whining"

I understand the spirit of the words, however, it has only been 24 hours since the terrible loss for freedom.  All you cheerleaders need to allow for a period of mourning after such defeats, and it WAS a defeat.  Some people, like me, need a "safe" place to come and commiserate, to see you are not alone, and vent some anger.

Gradually people WILL come around and be able to dust themselves off and get back in the fight. 

Allow some time to vent.  Then start the cheer-leading.

Posted by: jjmurphy at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (gWO5X)

131 I think this cost us the presidential election Primate, please. I larf at your pouting.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (QupBk)

132 Wait until that hospital starts seeing Federal regulations capping what it can charge for various services.  Their tune will change.  The halcyon days of the $10 Band-aid and $20 aspirin are gonna be over.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:29 AM (vJ6vx)

133 Political affiliation is NOT one of the explicitly proscribed forms of discrimination in the EEOC regulations:

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/index.cfm

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 10:24 AM (vJ6vx)


No, but the "disparate impact" rulings from the assholes in black robes is.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (YdQQY)

134 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:18 AM (YdQQY)

The amendments would be ratified by the legislatures of each state, and there are ample opportunities for pressure to be placed on those legislatures. In addition, not all red states have red legislatures.

It's a nice, romantic notion that brings us back to the simpler days of Constitutional Conventions and part-time legislators and representatives who actually live and work in their districts.

But the reality is a complete unknown that might very well destroy what is left of the Constitution.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (nEUpB)

135 So, at the little po-dunk hospital where I work,we got the email from management yesterday. Basically it said the official line was that the Hospital was pleased with the SC decision and that if anyone would like to share a different opinion with anyone outside the organization, they too, will become outside the organization. Therefore, I think the abolition of my last remaining little bit of civil liberty is just fucking great.

Posted by: Artruen at June 29, 2012 10:01 AM (fDGF1)



I'm guessing management attended that school with that cretin of a  teacher who screamed at the kid for questioning Barry

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (1Jaio)

136 You can't really "choose" to break the speed limit and just pay the "tax." Fine. Parking ticket then. I'm taxed on parking where I want to.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (QupBk)

137

This narrative doesn't really seem to be doing so well right now does it? The right hasn't really followed through on that whole limited government thing have they?

 

I said we've gotten better 2008. No, we have not shifted the fundamental direction of government in 3+ years. But we've shifted the narrative. The last budget showdown was a debate over HOW MUCH TO CUT. We've wrestled control of message away from liberal media gatekeepers so, more and more, we at least can get our message out untainted. It's going to take time to turn the ship around. The federal government has been expanding its reach pretty much continuously since...the nation's birth? Hyper-expanding for at least a century.

 

As for our culture, the Right as asleep at the switch. Or obsessed with abortion and other narrow issues. As a result, we have an unprecedented number of Americans who need the government to survive. That's going to take time to change.

 


 

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (9KqcB)

138

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 10:19 AM (aBlZ1)

 

no, it is a penalty, the law called it a penalty. it is the punishment meted out when you dont follow the ACA. roberts got it wrong, flat out wrong!

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 05:32 AM (TKF1Y)

139

@137 -- I stopped opposing abortion in 2008.  Too many idiots reached voting age.  Now I'm like King Herod.  Thanks Obama. 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 29, 2012 05:33 AM (Ec6wH)

140 Nixon established precedent for wage/price controls.  I'm just saying...

Maybe all these pro-Obama hospital administrators should get a taste of that medicine in their pay packets?  Out with the Mercedes, in with the Yugo.  Out with the McMansions, in with the cold water 5 story walkups

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:33 AM (vJ6vx)

141 I'm going to start using the parking ticket analogy exclusively. If I don't voluntarily put money in the meter, I'm taxed by the meter maid.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:33 AM (QupBk)

142

That's going to take time to change.

 

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 10:30 AM (9KqcB)

 

We're out of time.  Not going to bother addressing your trolling comment about abortion.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:33 AM (rX1N2)

143 Right, undoing decades of indoctination in public schools and universities and reversing decades of liberal infestation of pop culture. All in the next election cycle. We'll get right on that.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 10:17 AM (rX1N2)

 

Fuck the next election cycle. Guess what? America will survive whoever is elected in 2012. And 2014. And 2016. I know that on the intertubes nothing is as important in the history of the universe as the next election, but in the real world that's not the case.

 

The Left got us here via decades of narrative-selling and culture-shaping, aided by control of virtually all media. Those days are over. You can give up or get in it for the long haul.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:35 AM (9KqcB)

144 Guess what? America will survive whoever is elected in 2012. And 2014. And 2016 Yep. There's a lot of ruin in a great nation.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:36 AM (QupBk)

145 I stopped opposing abortion in 2008.

As a practical matter, they want to abort mostly what would become Democrats anyway.  I'm OK with that.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:36 AM (vJ6vx)

146 Guess what? America will survive whoever is elected in 2012. And 2014. And 2016

Sen Jackassious McCainious - "You have nothing to fear from Nero as Emperor"

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 05:39 AM (vJ6vx)

147 no, it is a penalty, the law called it a penalty. it is the punishment meted out when you dont follow the ACA. roberts got it wrong, flat out wrong!

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 10:32 AM (TKF1Y)

 

Doesn't matter what they CALL it.  It's a tax.  Roberts just said, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck, even though you want to call it a chicken because everyone hates ducks. 

 

They called it a penalty because THEY DIDN'T WANT TO CALL IT A TAX BECAUSE EVERYONE HATES TAXES.  Also because Barack Obama promised about 11,247 times NOT to raise taxes on the middle class.

 

They're a bunch of fucking liars.  Why get pissed at the guy who called them liars?

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 05:40 AM (aBlZ1)

148 It's a penalty. Roberts is just wrong.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:41 AM (QupBk)

149 I don't know if this has been brought up anywhere yet, but I have a question - Seeing that this is constitutional now that it's essentially been changed from a mandate under the Commerce Clause to a tax under the taxing authority, and also seeing that the version of ObamaCare that passed originated in the senate, who does not have taxing authority as that resides with the house, how can this law still be valid? If someone could clear that up for me I would appreciate it.

Posted by: Brass Pair at June 29, 2012 05:45 AM (YEelc)

150 We're out of time. Not going to bother addressing your trolling comment about abortion.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 10:33 AM (rX1N2)

 

We're not out of time and I don't post "trolling comments." Other than that, bang up job.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:45 AM (9KqcB)

151 So, are we conservatives basically going to say, "See? See? it was a tax all along?" but as far as I know only Landmark Legal only briefed on whether this could be a tax or not. . . of which I'm confused: the penalty could be a tax, but that doesn't mean the mandate to buy something is. I seriously don't get this. It's not a tax, and I'm not paying it. Screw them, and me.

Posted by: David C. at June 29, 2012 05:48 AM (mBMit)

152 Ace said: Before that, let me agree with Legal Insurrection: This is a loss, and a bad one.

Agreed. I worry about the momentum. The SCOTUS has opened a window for the democrats to pivot to the economy and make the case that it's the republicans who want to go back to healthcare, etc.

On our side, the DNC and the Obama campaign is straight incompetent. I doubt they will be able to pull it off before the Romney guys get their bearing; we also have next week's unemployment numbers as a hard-break / firewall just in case that will reset the news cycle.

That said, it's a good advertisement. Damn good.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at June 29, 2012 05:49 AM (JdSQO)

153 Sen Jackassious McCainious - "You have nothing to fear from Nero as Emperor"

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 10:39 AM (vJ6vx)

 

Anyone who is not aware that Obama is pushing the same shit Democrats have been pushing for decades needs to read more. The difference between he and Bill Clinton is slight, policywise. 

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:50 AM (9KqcB)

154

I'm going to start using the parking ticket analogy exclusively. If I don't voluntarily put money in the meter, I'm taxed by the meter maid.

 

Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 10:33 AM (QupBk)

 

And if you do it enough times, your car gets booted or towed.  Because YOU BROKE THE LAW. 

 

Obamacare DOES NOT MAKE IT ILLEGAL to not have health insurance.  It just taxes you if you don't.  If you don't pay the tax, you are not in violation of the Obamacare law, you are in violation of the Internal Revenue Code.  You pay the tax to the IRS.  It goes into the general fund of the Treasury.  That's why it's a tax.  Congress could have set it up as a fine to be paid into some new penalty fund that would be used to pay for specific health care costs.  That would have been unconstitutional as it is not a tax and Congress has no power under the Commerce Clause to levy such a fine for inactivity. 

 

This is what Nancy Pelosi was talking about when she said this thing was "ironclad" and laughed at people who thought it was unconstitutional.  She was right.  What we let her get away with was lying and not calling a tax a tax. 

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 05:51 AM (qE3AR)

155 74
According to an article linked at Drudge, congress could arrest Holder right now, and have used that power in the past. Why isn't this guy sitting in a cell right now?Posted by: Hal Burton at June 29, 2012 09:52 AM (iYvMQ)Because he is Black?????

Who knew being involved in a conspiracy to supply weapons to murderous cartel members and perpetuating the subsequent coverup while black was a crime?

Posted by: Flounder at June 29, 2012 05:54 AM (Kkt/i)

156 Brass pair, an explanation at Hot Air.  To sum up: if the author is correct, Reid used a "shell bill"--he took a bill that passed in the house, stripped out all of its provisions, and put in new ones, and thus the bill passed the House first.  Apparently, this is considered legitimate, or at least not illegitimate enough to be a problem...

http://tinyurl.com/7vajrvy

Posted by: Occam's Safety Razor at June 29, 2012 06:00 AM (8Mgrk)

157 Two posts going on the same subject.  Time to close this one.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 06:05 AM (YdQQY)

158 Occam's Safety Razor at June 29, 2012 11:00 AM Nice. Thanks.

Posted by: Brass Pair at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (YEelc)

159

@157 - yeah, I'm arguing on the other thread that as much as I dislike the outcome, I can't argue with the logic Robert's used in his opinion.  I think he ruled as the law was written, as the applicable precedents were written, and according to the Constitution, which is exactly how I want the courts to function.

If you disagree, I'd like to discuss it.  I think we need to dispel the lynch mob psychology I'm seeing on this subject.  If you want to press your argument on the other thread, or on this thread, I'll cover both.

 

Posted by: Brent Glines at June 29, 2012 06:16 AM (48wze)

160 And if you do it enough times, your car gets booted or towed. Nope. There are plenty of meter parking areas where the cars are never booted or towed. You pay the fine and all is well. You can do it every day if you were so inclined. It's a penalty. Roberts is just wrong.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:20 AM (QupBk)

161 It's mere sophistry to say that if I pay a fine to the IRS, it's a tax, but if I pay the same money to HHS, it's a fine.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (QupBk)

162

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 10:51 AM (qE3AR)

 

The Federal Power to Tax is NOT absolute.  The Consitution mentions Excise taxes, imposts, duties.... and Income tax.

 

This is NOT a Tax on Income.  Its not a duty as its a tax on somthing NOT sold... its not a Impost, its not a duty...

 

What it IS is a taking of your money, if you do not do somthing... ie its a Penalty.  Just because its taken by the IRS does NOT make it a Tax.

 

And as Wesley Snipes can attest... not paying your taxes can land you in Jail... so under the same laws, if you own the IRS money from THIS tax, you can end up in Jail.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (lZBBB)

163 Second sentence above should read... its not an EXCISE Tax as its a tax on somthing NOT sold... sorry... not enough coffee yet.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (lZBBB)

164

@160, not according to the legal principles and precedents Roberts cited in his opinion.  Do you have a countervailing legal principle you'd like to offer in rebuttal?  If so, let's discuss it.  If not, yours is just an opinion, supported by...nothing.

 

Posted by: Brent Glines at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (48wze)

165 To be fair, his other achievement is a pile of dead Muslims. /sarc

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at June 29, 2012 06:25 AM (Xw5e1)

166 If not, yours is just an opinion, supported by...nothing. Well duh.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (QupBk)

167

@162 Romeo13 said "This is NOT a Tax on Income. Its not a duty as its a tax on somthing NOT sold... its not a Impost, its not a duty..."

It is a tax on income.  That is how the tax is calculated.  It is imposed upon people who do not buy health insurance.  There is nothing in the constitution to prohibit that.  You may not like it, and I don't like it, but it is permitted under the constitution.

As Ace has said, Remember Plan A.   Elect Romney, and elect conservative Republicans to Congress, and repeal the damn thing.  That has ALWAYS been Plan A. 

Posted by: Brent Glines at June 29, 2012 06:28 AM (48wze)

168 @166, well, I'm glad to see we are in agreement that your argument has neither merit nor basis.

Posted by: Brent Glines at June 29, 2012 06:30 AM (48wze)

169 Still a BFD = Still a Big Fucking Douche

Posted by: JDShellnutt at June 29, 2012 06:31 AM (2cfUo)

170 I'm glad to see we are in agreement that your argument has neither merit nor basis. Ha! Saying that there is precedent and previous poor rulings to build a case on is not always a persuasive argument. I side with Mr Bumble that "... the law is a ass—a idiot. If that's the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience." Dancing on legal pinheads is best done at Volokh. Here is the politics and persuasion, raw with a garnish of the snark.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:37 AM (QupBk)

171

@170 " Saying that there is precedent and previous poor rulings to build a case on is not always a persuasive argument." 

If you can make the argument that the previous rulings are invalid, then be my guest.  Hint: that you disagree with the ruling is not a valid argument that the ruling or the precedent is incorrect.

You are correct, however that this is now a political question that now must be decided by political means.  Thus we are back to Ace's recommendation.  Remember Plan A.   Elect Romney, and elect conservative Republicans to Congress, and repeal the damn thing.  That has ALWAYS been Plan A.

Posted by: Brent Glines at June 29, 2012 06:42 AM (48wze)

172 I don't think that the real fight has started yet. But we do need a giant sized kickass pot of coffee for a certain sleeping giant that got a not too subtle shoulder shake yesterday.

There's a lot of work to be done laying out what's at stake for the less informed, which is the reason that the fucking hospital mentioned above is trying to discourage just that by threats and intimidation.

Oh, and the MFM is part of a treasonous criminal conspiracy and MUST ultimately go down.

Posted by: ontherocks at June 29, 2012 06:45 AM (aZ6ew)

173

@162 As CJ Roberts explained, it is reasonably interpreted as a tax on behavior that the government wants to discourage.  Inactivity, i.e. not buying insurance, is NOT commerce, but it sure is behavior, and that is taxable.  Roberts also said there are limits to this power, but those need not be defined in this case to find the Obamatax constitutional.  It's certainly reasoning that is subject to fair criticism, but I'm getting a little tired of people just saying he pulled this out of his ass. 

 

What I would like to see, if the law is not repealed, is a challenge by an individual who self insures.  Someone who has a few hundred grand in the bank and assets that could give him/her millions if necessary to pay for any potential health care need.  I believe the government would be hard pressed as to why such a person should be taxed for not buying a completele unnecessary insurance policy.  In fact, I was puzzled why the plaintiffs did not use such an example in arguing that even a tax is unconstitutional if it is levied on such people. 

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 07:28 AM (NYnoe)

174 tax we much!

Posted by: ugly kid joe at June 29, 2012 07:35 AM (841OK)

175

@173 rockmom said, "I believe the government would be hard pressed as to why such a person should be taxed for not buying a completele unnecessary insurance policy."

 

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits Congress from applying such a tax, and the Constitution and precedent are what Roberts used to make his ruling.  It is a political question as to whether a tax is wise or unwise.  Roberts properly ruled only whether it was permissible under the Constitution, which it is.  As Roberts stated in the decision, it is not the job of the court to protect us from the consequences of our political decisions. 


Remember Plan A.  

Posted by: Brent Glines at June 29, 2012 07:37 AM (48wze)

176 I sitll feel liking vomiting when I see tom dashole.

Posted by: Fresh at June 29, 2012 08:15 AM (O7ksG)

177

Obama's lawyer certainly argued it.  And did he think of it himself.  Nope.  He got it from an amicus brief written by an avowed socialist and SEIU lawyer.  True story.

 

Posted by: in the deep end at June 29, 2012 08:30 AM (xQnbi)

178 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 29, 2012 02:49 PM (Xb3hu)

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