October 31, 2013

ObamaCare Still Sucks
— DrewM

Another day, another deluge of stories....

An LA Times reporter tries to debunk his own paper's story about an individual having to pay more for insurance and...fails.

One estimate says 129 million people aren't going to be able to keep the health care plan they have.

Heritage estimates 1.5 million people have already lost their policy.

This last group is something we talked about on the podcast last night (it should be up tomorrow morning with special guest Mary Katherine Ham). The question was will the failure of ObamaCare finally discredit big-government liberalism. Not surprisingly, I am less than optimistic about that notion and the people losing their policies by the end of the year are why.

This is a large and growing group of people who did nothing wrong. They are the responsible ones who paid exorbitant prices to get their policies without employer or government help. As Ace pointed out they are also the people who helped keep the cost of care (as opposed to coverage) down because they often had high deductible policies so they used medical services sparingly and shopped around. And now they are essentially the innocent victims of ObamaCare.

Yesterday Sebelius said the exchange site would be up and working by December 1. That means if you have coverage now that is being cancelled on January 1, you have to have new coverage in place by December 15th of this year (there's usually a 2-4 week delay between buying coverage and when it kicks in). That means millions of people are going to flood the system just to keep something near what they have. Imagine the panic if you have an ongoing medical condition and your policy is about to be cancelled and you simply can't buy a new one anywhere at the moment. And if you can buy a policy at some point, there's no guarantee that come January 1, your doctor will be able to keep you as a patient. So in the middle of dealing with an illness you have to not only find a new policy but also a doctor and hope you can get in to see them ASAP to get continuing care. That must be terrifying.

So how does this relate to the discrediting of progressivism and Democrats?

To date the GOP has kept ObamaCare at a distance and the blame should fall to the Democrats but faced with these innocent bystanders being hurt, the GOP is going to be under great pressure To Do Something! And quite frankly, it's not going to be an unreasonable demand.

Now I'm not sure there's anything that can be done at this point. You can't just wave a magic wand and undo all the cancellations or make everything work smoothly come January 1.

In that case we may see the GOP get blamed for not doing something to help or people just get fed up and say a pox on both their houses. Of course the GOP might find something they can do but then they "own" ObamaCare too and the rest of the failings that go along with it.

To discredit the progressive project you need a clear distinction between it and the alternative. I'm not sure the GOP (through no fault of its own) will be able to provide that if it has to get involved in "fixing" ObamaCare.

I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing. And let's be honest, some of these people are going to die because of Obama's lies and quest for power. Can you really give the GOP grief if they try and protect these people? Even if it means a lousy political outcome for them and the country. It's a brutal situation to be in.

In someways having the GOP have just enough power (control of the House) to take some of the blame but not enough to actually do anything will prove to be the best thing that happened to Obama. In the long run, it will likely be terrible for the country.


Keep something in mind: This isn't an accident, it was their plan all along.


That a few eggs have to be broken to make their socialist omelet is a small price to pay.

Posted by: DrewM at 07:25 AM | Comments (249)
Post contains 759 words, total size 5 kb.

1

MKH on the PodCast?

You made her do it topless, right?

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2013 07:28 AM (cz6g+)

2 Over/under on when it will be functional?

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 07:29 AM (KvM9d)

3 There is worse stuff in store in year two. Many companies can continue with what they had for another year. Next year is coming.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 31, 2013 07:29 AM (Kud5A)

4

Over/under on when it will be functional?

 

The Podcast or Ocare?

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2013 07:29 AM (cz6g+)

5 ObamaCare Still Sucks Well that way, at least some of the patients can get pain relief for their blue balls. At least ObamaCare is providing some kind of medical benefit.

Posted by: zombie at October 31, 2013 07:30 AM (+cx5n)

6 I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing.
---

All it takes for Zerocare to win is for good people to do nothing.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 31, 2013 07:31 AM (Hx5uv)

7 Is there a run on Barry masks this Halloween?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 31, 2013 07:31 AM (IXrOn)

8 Over/under on when it will be functional? The Podcast or Ocare? Yes.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 07:31 AM (KvM9d)

9 Obama back up to 48% approval in Rasmussen today. He is impossible to beat. Has there ever been a President that the people want to like so much?

Posted by: bob at October 31, 2013 07:32 AM (TVf+Y)

10 We're in one of the news phases where every single day there is an avalanche of shocking revelations, any of one which under normal circumstances would be a major scandal/news event on its own for an entire week or month. Instead, we get about 5 an hour. It's so overwhelming, people go numb. We'll be disentangling this mess and analyzing its entrails for decades to come.

Posted by: zombie at October 31, 2013 07:33 AM (+cx5n)

11 9 Drones don't want to be perceived as Rayciss.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 31, 2013 07:33 AM (Kud5A)

12 ama back up to 48% approval in Rasmussen today. He is impossible to beat. Has there ever been a President that the people want to like so much? Posted by: bob at October 31, 2013 12:32 PM (TVf+Y) Sick, isn't it. I swear, half those idiots feel sorry for him.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 31, 2013 07:33 AM (IXrOn)

13 Capitalism sucks.

Posted by: Frank Baloney, D-NJ at October 31, 2013 07:33 AM (FcR7P)

14 I don't know
how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get
screwed like this and do nothing.


What do you expect them to do?  Serious question.

They haven't "done nothing."  They've passed a whole mess of bills in the House to repeal most of it.  Harry Reid sits on them in the Senate; even if he didn't SCOAMF would veto them.  But I'm not sure what else they CAN do.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at work with a migraine at October 31, 2013 07:34 AM (/kI1Q)

15 fuck it - if people still vote based on birth control, fuck them. It's to the point now where either the Low Info voter wises up, or they die. Sure, a united republican message not filled with bullshit "compromise" would help... but as long as people still respond to ads about women's rights and birth control - this country will commit suicide.

Posted by: reality man at October 31, 2013 07:34 AM (Cs9Ps)

16 Warning to the bureaucracy:  Deception works both ways.  If there is no trust of government, there is no support of government.  Like the Soviet Union it will fall under the weight of its lies. 

Posted by: Minuteman at October 31, 2013 07:34 AM (7/um6)

17 Here's a question I'm still confused about. Will people who qualify for Medicaid be forced onto Medicaid? My college buddy subsidizes his broke-ass sister and her kids. He gives her money so she could buy good insurance so his niece and nephew get decent care. He doesn't want them on Medicaid because most good doctors don't accept Medicaid. Will he still be able to do that? He's telling me the answer is no. Her plan has been cancelled. So now she has to join the Obamacare exchanges. And when she puts in her, very low, income she's going to be forcibly enrolled in Medicare and not be allowed to sign up for the regular insurance. Her current doctor, who takes care of the kids, does not accept Medicaid. If she is forced onto Medicaid she will have to find a new doctor. The girl was a preemie and has serious asthma and other assorted health problems. She's just generally a sickly, kinda frail kid. Which is why my buddy is paying for his sister's insurance in the first place.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:34 AM (ZPrif)

18

SERIOUS QUESTION>>>>

 

Has anyone gone through the Site yet?  Registered?

 

Were there any Voter Registration Questions?

 

Because under the Motor Voter Act, any State or Fed Entity that provides 'Social Services' must also allow you to register to vote through it...

 

Is this site being used to sign up those on the Public Dole to Vote?  or as this site does not say your info is private, will that info be used to send you voter registration by mail cards?

 

Is the Left using this to pad the number of Free Shit Army folks on the voter rolls?

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 31, 2013 07:34 AM (lZBBB)

19 It's time to start moving the meme to what might happen when the employer mandate kicks in. Most people are still insulated by the fact that they get insurance through their employer. I suspect a lot of LIV, after hearing the horror stories of the self employed are thinking "That's just terrible, but it won't happen to me."

They should be disavowed of this notion.

Posted by: BuckIV at October 31, 2013 07:35 AM (gedHR)

20 ObamaCare Still SucksRedundant

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 31, 2013 07:35 AM (MnSla)

21 >>I swear, half those idiots feel sorry for him. If this is the same bob from yesterday, he is one of those idiots.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2013 07:35 AM (g1DWB)

22

Will he still be able to do that?

 

No.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2013 07:35 AM (cz6g+)

23 The fastest way to fix this mess is to repeal ObamaCare in toto.  Then people can keep their old policies.

Posted by: mrp at October 31, 2013 07:35 AM (HjPtV)

24

I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing.

 

Because millions of those "hard working Americans" voted for this.  Fuck.  Them.

 

And let's be honest, some of these people are going to die because of Obama's lies and quest for power.

 

And a hell of a lot more of them will die if this monstrosity is allowed to live.

 

Can you really give the GOP grief if they try and protect these people? Even if it means a lousy political outcome for them and the country. It's a brutal situation to be in.

 

Again, in the words of Dr. Johnson, "Experience is a hard school, but fools will learn in no other."  The only thing the GOP should do is remind people every day -  We didn't want this.  We told you it was bad.  When we tried to help, Obama told us to get in the back of the bus.    Obama lied and your coverage died.  The GOP are damned fools (BIRM) if they try to "protect" people from this fascist nightmare in any way.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (zF6Iw)

25 "In that case we may see the GOP get blamed for not doing something to help or people just get fed up and say a pox on both their houses. " Dude. Did you miss the shutdown? Mew

Posted by: acat at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (4UkCP)

26 The question was will the failure of ObamaCare finally discredit big-government liberalism.

No.  The reason why is quite simple:  Democrat voters.

A Democrat voter who loses his policy and has to take one with a surge in cost and a plunge in benefits will STILL pull the lever for the Democrat candidate in any election.

Stupidity of that kind of depth is unrepairable.  They aren't just blind, they see blindness as a positive.

Posted by: Null at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (P7hip)

27 Like the Soviet Union it will fall under the weight of its lies. I don't have 70 years.

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (FcR7P)

28 >I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing.<

Well, they are going on a two week recess. So there's that.

Perfect example of why the GOP fails. At the height of this issue and people really needing an advocate, they pack up and go home. They lose all visibility and therefore become incredulous to most voters.

Meanwhile, Democrats goose-step on.

Posted by: Marcus at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (GGCsk)

29

Is the Left using this to pad the number of Free Shit Army folks on the voter rolls?

 

Yes.

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (cz6g+)

30 Oh, Drew, thank you so much. I only read the first few paragraphs but you are the first one who was able to describe the personal side of this. It is terrifying.

My carrier said if I don't have coverage by 11/20/13, I won't have coverage on Jan. 1st. It's medications I'm concerned about - the market prices of these without the insurance company "discounts" will bankrupt my family in no time flat. But do I buy one of these horrible policies? And if so, which one? I refuse to use the O-care website.

Sorry to be such a drag. Thanks for highlighting the personal vs. the policy, it's all too real.

Posted by: jeannebodine at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (2LJqa)

31 Great, so now the GOP will be expected to fix a mess they warned against and was so incredibly loathsome, that none of them voted for it.  Yeah, makes perfect sense in D.C. land. 

Posted by: no good deed at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (k55Fc)

32 9 Obama back up to 48% approval in Rasmussen today. He is impossible to beat. Has there ever been a President that the people want to like so much? Posted by: bob The last time I believed a poll was about 1982. The bloom is off the rose. Nobody outside of ghetto residents and mesmerized effete liberals has the slightest affection for Obama any more. What these polls are is nothing northing than a study of how resilient "The Bradley Effect" is (i.e. people are unwilling to admit to a pollster their opposition to a black man, lest they look racist in public).

Posted by: zombie at October 31, 2013 07:36 AM (+cx5n)

33

Posted by: bob at October 31, 2013 12:32 PM (TVf+Y)

 

48%???  and just what is the number of folks who don't pay Taxes?

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (lZBBB)

34 My simple questions is: Is everyone who technically qualifies for Medicaid being forcibly enrolled in it when they sign up for Obamacare?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (ZPrif)

35 "ObamaCare Still Sucks" Well of course. What else did you expect.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Osuckyourbutt at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (57ubW)

36 There is no "fix." The individual market has been irrevocably destroyed unless the ACA is repealed. Even if legislation were passed and signed today allowing the old policies, insurance companies will not go back to the status quo ante. The damage has been done; the responsible middle class will now be supporting the deadbeats and in exchange, they will get nothing. Only the very poor and the very rich will now be have access to quality medical care heretofore available to the vast majority of Americans. The rest of us get the shit sandwich.

Posted by: RS at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (YAGV/)

37 You made her do it topless, right?

Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2013 12:28 PM (cz6g+)



And right now with nursing boobs. Fun and dinner.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (MnSla)

38 If your income is in Medicaid territory you are not even eligible for subsidies.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (Kud5A)

39 Sure, this ACA is bad, but if any of our guys try to start a real movement to kill this thing, we should squash him like a bug.

Posted by: The GOP at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (LSJmV)

40 Do Over!

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 31, 2013 07:37 AM (BAS5M)

41 The thing to do in my opinion is to firewall the failure. There should be no attempt to fix Obamacare. But there should be attempts to let people and companies opt out of it. Right now, that would mean individuals being able to buy any insurance, even insurance that doesn’t meet ACA regulations. And whenever the ACA has another inevitable crisis—which it will, because it is so poorly in tune with reality—firewall the failure a bit further. And for god’s sake, the GOP should be storing these crazy attempts to tell people not to believe their own lyin’ eyes for November 2014. *We* saved your insurance. *We* overcame a Senate dominated by Democrats like *this* old rich white guy. Think what we could do if we didn’t have to overcome the Democratic Party’s disdain for your choices.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at October 31, 2013 07:38 AM (QF8uk)

42 I figure if I can get a low deductible tapeworm like Barack's, I'll be sitting pretty for the next 3 years.

Posted by: Fritz at October 31, 2013 07:38 AM (UzPAd)

43 SERIOUS QUESTION>>>> Has anyone gone through the Site yet? Registered? Were there any Voter Registration Questions? Because under the Motor Voter Act, any State or Fed Entity that provides 'Social Services' must also allow you to register to vote through it... DC Exchange asks for your Lotto numbers. Per Drudge.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 07:38 AM (KvM9d)

44 Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at work with a migraine at October 31, 2013 12:34 PM (/kI1Q) I don't think there's anything they can do. There's not enough time even if there was some sort of solution out there. That doesn't mean the American people are rational and will understand that. My guess is they will say, "You should do something!" and not pay attention to the inconvenient facts. That's when it becomes "a pox on both their houses" thing. The GOP may come out marginally better for it but the question we were throwing around was is this a seminal moment where big government progressives are discredited. I doubt it.

Posted by: DrewM. at October 31, 2013 07:38 AM (r+LOT)

45

big government GOP establishment blogger:   People are going to blame the GOP if the government shuts down, we better give the democrats what they want.

 

big government GOP establishment blogger and MA governor:   liberals have so much power that we have to institute government mandated insurance now just in case they really mess it up if we don't help them out.

 

big government GOP establishment blogger:   Oh no, the voters are going to blame the GOP because Obamacare is failing, we must do something to help prop up Obamacare so the voters don't blame us.

 

75 years ago big government GOP establishment blogger:   that crazy moustached man only wants a little bit of land, and he does make a good point, and if we tried to stop him and actually say 'no, you can't have that' then we will be blamed by all them nice European Jewish folk of causing a ruckus.

 

250 years ago big government GOP establishment blogger:   Oh, come on now, we have to follow the laws, if the King says we need to pay the tax we better pay the tax, we wouldn't want all those nice folks mad at us for causing them problems.

Posted by: doug at October 31, 2013 07:39 AM (uJ8q7)

46 "I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing. And let's be honest, some of these people are going to die because of Obama's lies and quest for power. Can you really give the GOP grief if they try and protect these people?"


Actually, I can.  When helping this group, it hurts many others.  The opportunity costs seem to never be considered.

Posted by: dogfish at October 31, 2013 07:39 AM (nsOJa)

47 My company announced that they would be keeping our health insurer and the plan, but that the premiums would be going up (more details to follow, so I don't know how much). SO 129 million lose their plan - which is min-boggling - but than how many more are keeping their plan, but have significant cost changes (to deductibles, co-pays, monthly premium, etc.)?

Maybe the better question to ask is this: Of those who already had insurance, who isn't worse off?

Because the MSM will eventually have to report that Obamacare destroyed health insurance for the majority in order to *maybe* get those who were uninsured on a health plan. Never mind that some of them didn't want it (young and illegal immigrants).

Posted by: Lizzy at October 31, 2013 07:39 AM (JRmiD)

48 Obama needs to present himself with a giant red "Reset" button.

Posted by: zombie at October 31, 2013 07:39 AM (+cx5n)

49 27 Like the Soviet Union it will fall under the weight of its lies.

I don't have 70 years.

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 12:36 PM (FcR7P)

 

We're already 50 years worth into the lies.

Posted by: Minuteman at October 31, 2013 07:40 AM (7/um6)

50 Where the hell is that Sesame Street Count Dracula guy when you need him?

Maybe he could help the GOP point out the math is all wrong?

Posted by: Marcus at October 31, 2013 07:40 AM (GGCsk)

51 Obama back up to 48% approval in Rasmussen today. He is impossible to beat. Has there ever been a President that the people want to like so much?
---

 A Rasmussen poll:

ItÂ’s not exactly a vote of confidence in the powers that be: A sizable number of Americans think the undead would do a better job than the brain dead in Washington, D.C.

Thirty-seven percent (37%) of American Adults believe the federal government would do a better job than zombies running the country today. But the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that most Americans donÂ’t share that view, with just as many (37%) who feel zombies would do a better job running the country and another 26% who canÂ’t decide between the two.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 31, 2013 07:40 AM (Hx5uv)

52 Who's the babe next to Ezra?

Posted by: Waterhouse at October 31, 2013 07:41 AM (QAEJK)

53 I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO NO NONONONONO. This is exactly and precisely and utterly and totally and completely and in every possible way the mindset that has created Levithan. Unless by do something you mean keep passing, on a daily basis if necessary, full out repeals of the ACA along with the various if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance bills, then NO FOR FUCK'S SAKE NO. The solution to government screwing something up as completely as possible is not the government then attempting to unscrew it. All that happens is DP. To discredit the progressive project you need a clear distinction between it and the alternative. I'm not sure the GOP (through no fault of its own) will be able to provide that if it has to get involved in "fixing" ObamaCare. The clear distinction is a united front saying this is why not a single Republican voted for this. The clear distinction is a united front pointing out that this, this is exactly why the shutdown occurred because when the train is barreling towards the stroller on the track, you hurl yourself in front of it in order to attempt to save the baby, even if you are 20 feet away and will probably not make it. The clear distinction is a united front saying over and over and over again that the only reason why people are losing their insurance is because Obama is making the rules that say they must. I will admit that much of my response to this is visceral, rather than intellectual, because I loathe few things more than doing everything in my power to stop a problem from developing, being ignored or pooh poohed about the problem and then being handed the steaming pile and told FIX IT OMG FIX IT RIGHT NOW HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN. Yeah. How could I let happen that thing I jumped up and down and told you would happen and don't do this I beg of you. Yeah. It's my fault. (All that being said, Drew, you're not wrong on how this will be spun as the Republican's fault and fuck it I'm not opening the door tonight and I'm going to eat all that candy myself.)

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies with whipped cream. at October 31, 2013 07:41 AM (VtjlW)

54 The smart move is to vote neither yea or nay, rather not vote at all or vote present.

Let the Dems fashion whatever manner of remedy they want and continue letting them own it all.

Voting present obstructs nothing.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 31, 2013 07:41 AM (4tK7k)

55 Maybe the better question to ask is this: Of those who already had insurance, who isn't worse off? Look at the donor lists and you'll know.

Posted by: Unions at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (FcR7P)

56
An LA Times reporter....

Michael Hiltzik - who some may recall got canned by the Times for sockpuppeting on the Time's site and conservative blogs:

http://tinyurl.com/mr6lm

Got rehired of course, after the furor died down.  Wrote a letter of complaint about that to the Times Ombudsman.  Got a reply and was totes assured Hizzy had changed and would be watched closely in the future for any misbehavior.

Yeah....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (kdS6q)

57 Barry, MD: If you like your healthcare plan, fuck you

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (1Jaio)

58 "and another 26% who canÂ’t decide between the two."

Please define "zombie".

Posted by: mrp at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (HjPtV)

59 Listening to Klein describing the difficulties of getting to single payer and how it needed to done by stealth against the public's will was eerily reminiscent of the justification of the guy who rapes his date. Come on baby, you know you want it, what do you mean you don't want to? You'll like it, I promise.

Posted by: flmom at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (nSjrf)

60 Obama needs to present himself with a giant red "Reset" button. He'd just misread it as 'Rest' and go take a 16-hour snooze.

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (FcR7P)

61 Barry, MD: If you like your healthcare plan, fuck you

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 31, 2013 12:42 PM (1Jaio)



But first you will blow me.

Posted by: EC at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (GQ8sn)

62 the GOP is going to be under great pressure To Do Something! The answer to that is: we have. 41 times we've voted to repeal the damn thing. 41 times Harry Reid filed our bill into the circular bin. If you have a problem, maybe you should take it up with your Senators?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at October 31, 2013 07:42 AM (1hM1d)

63 Like the Soviet Union it will fall under the weight of its lies. I don't have 70 years. We didn't get here in five years. We're not getting out of it in five, either.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, puttin' a hit out on Pixy at October 31, 2013 07:43 AM (naUcP)

64 I will quote the always interesting Steve Smith "When your dog pees on the carpet, you rub its face in it"

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at October 31, 2013 07:43 AM (b9K4P)

65 >Obama back up to 48% approval in Rasmussen today<

Not that I like polls, but 47 is an outlier and not really believable at all.

Most others are in the 42% range and sinking.

Posted by: Marcus at October 31, 2013 07:43 AM (GGCsk)

66
I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing.



#MakingLifeWork

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 31, 2013 07:43 AM (kdS6q)

67 9 Obama back up to 48% approval in Rasmussen today. He is impossible to beat. Has there ever been a President that the people want to like so much?

He's black.  People don't want to be called "racist" simply for not liking someone.  It's far easier to say "Yeah, I like him" than to risk being outed by the Media as a terrible, terrible racist--even if you aren't one.  Look how all criticism of Obama is handled--it's all due to "racism."  Once they make that public about you, it'll be hard to keep your job, your friends, pretty much everything.

Racism is the one sin that Liberals can never forgive.  Liberals control the Media and by extension, your ability to find and keep a job, your ability to live your life.

Think they wouldn't stoop that low, just to prop up Obama?  Three words:  Joe the Plumber.

Posted by: Null at October 31, 2013 07:43 AM (P7hip)

68 Will he still be able to do that? He's telling me the answer is no. Her plan has been cancelled. So now she has to join the Obamacare exchanges. And when she puts in her, very low, income she's going to be forcibly enrolled in Medicare and not be allowed to sign up for the regular insurance. I have the same question. I currently pay for my girlfriendÂ’s insurance. For unrelated reasons we are not going to be married within the next few years. When I go into the ACA systems there doesnÂ’t seem to be any ability for someone to buy insurance for someone else. ItÂ’s government welfare or the highway.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at October 31, 2013 07:43 AM (QF8uk)

69 "The last time I believed a poll was about 1982." Then you must have gotten a rude awakening last year. It is what it is. To me, Obama comes across and smug and arrogant. But the numbers do not lie. The American public seems very predisposed to give him the benefit of every doubt. And things won't get any better with Hillary following him to the White House. That election will just be a coronation. The only meaningful contest is the Dem Primary.

Posted by: bob at October 31, 2013 07:44 AM (raDOk)

70 When I go into the ACA systems there doesnÂ’t seem to be any ability for someone to buy insurance for someone else. ItÂ’s government welfare or the highway.


That would be a family plan.  You could do it if the two of you were married, but since you're not, then you are SOL.

Posted by: EC at October 31, 2013 07:45 AM (GQ8sn)

71 It was interesting to hear O'Reilly use the word Impeach in relation to the SCOAMF. If you didn't hear it, he said that if JEF is found, factually, that he lied directly to the American people, he can be impeached. If only.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 31, 2013 07:45 AM (IXrOn)

72

Posted by: Lizzy at October 31, 2013 12:39 PM (JRmiD)

 

The end result will be...

 

Higher insurance premiums for everyone healthy, to subsidize the sick...

Higher insurance premiums for every working, to subsidize the poor...

Less Doctor choice... unless you are Rich, and have a Concierge Doctor like my Leftist Brother does....

More Government control via Regulation...

More Paperwork.....

 

They said that this HAD to be done, because 30 Million people did not have health insurance....  They now say that the 5% or so loosing their Health insurance are a 'small minority'....

 

Its a Power Grab.... and nothing else.... its the Feds taking over Health Care, by a Fascistic Partnership with the Health Insurance Industry (Fascism IS Corporatism... Mussolini).

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 31, 2013 07:46 AM (lZBBB)

73 He's black. People don't want to be called "racist" simply for not liking someone. Loud & proud. I don't like Barky's white half.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 07:46 AM (KvM9d)

74

Drew,  I'm no expert but I think the best choice for the repubs is to get in front of every microphone they see and tell the people the truth. 

"The only way to stop this law from destroying the health insurance and medical care industries is to repeal it in total. We cannot "fix" it, we cannot simplify it, or make it fair and less harmful. It was designed to destroy the health insurance industry and cause harm to the American people.  We did not vote for it because we understood this.  The democrats passed this without any republican support because this is what they wanted the law to do.  We need to repeal this law entirely and the democrat controlled Senate and the President are refusing to allow this to happen.  It would seem that they are perfectly fine with watching the American people suffer from the effects of a bad law.  I hope we can eventually get a Republican senate and a Republican president who care more about what is good for the American people than they do about winning an ideological victory for their party."

Posted by: madamemayhem at October 31, 2013 07:46 AM (S2RnE)

75 >It is what it is. To me, Obama comes across and smug and arrogant. But the numbers do not lie<

Bullshit. They lie all the time and oddly, you pick the highest rating.

Posted by: Marcus at October 31, 2013 07:46 AM (GGCsk)

76 Yeah, this doesn't seem to be offering Medicaid to those who qualify. These appears to be forcibly enrolling everyone who qualifies.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:46 AM (ZPrif)

77 @53 AtC Spot on.

Posted by: RS at October 31, 2013 07:46 AM (YAGV/)

78 Vets: Remember the VA medical insurance. If you have it, you're good to go at little or no cost. You earned it, so sign up for it. Insured or not.


Posted by: Dick (@DicksTrash) at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (GrtrJ)

79 Hey zombie, are you the zombie from LGF back when Jharles was still sane?

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (7ObY1)

80 FIX IT OMG FIX IT RIGHT NOW HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN I believe this is part of how McCain lost (besides a crappy campaign in general). He had been part of the movement to decouple the government from the various government-sponsored enterprises. Then, when the crisis caused partially if not fully by the GSEs hit, he succumbed to the desire to fix the bad instead of continuing to fight to get rid of the bad and replace it with something better.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (QF8uk)

81 26 The question was will the failure of ObamaCare finally discredit big-government liberalism.

No. The reason why is quite simple: Democrat voters.

Exactly:  Remember, these people have allowed themselves to believe Michelle Obama is a classy, gorgeous fashion icon as directed by the MSM.  They can and will believe any lie that serves the lefts agenda.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (Vv4Go)

82

wow

 

but I was told by some posters here that the drive to single payer is unpossible

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (zOTsN)

83

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 31, 2013 12:45 PM (IXrOn)

 

O'Reiley.... wrong as Usual...

 

You can only be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors'.... it is NOT illegal for the Government to lie to you.... only for you to lie to the Government.... peasant....

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (lZBBB)

84 Purp the bob is back.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (MnSla)

85 Yeah I'm a dumb ass..

From prev thread. Just to be sure we all get it.


http://www.gq.com/news-politics/politics/201012/megyn-kelly-fox-news


H/T Flatbush Joe



Posted by: dananjcon at October 31, 2013 07:47 AM (wmU4G)

86 People don't want to be called "racist" simply for not liking someone. Can I use homophobia as my defense? Xenophobia?

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 07:48 AM (FcR7P)

87 Sorry to be such a drag. Thanks for highlighting the personal vs. the policy, it's all too real. Posted by: jeannebodine at October 31, 2013 12:36 PM (2LJqa) You're not being a drag. Just telling it like it is. So sorry to hear of your troubles, as how hard it was to hear of NDH's the past couple days. All I can offer you is a song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXpW9D5-ZvE ~Jewel: Good Day (plenty of boobies in there for the morons, too)

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at October 31, 2013 07:48 AM (IXrOn)

88 I don't have 70 years.

We were starting collapse phase at the same time they were...it was a race to the bottom and they hit first.

You can shave about 60 years off that collapse timeline.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 31, 2013 07:48 AM (4tK7k)

89

What happens when a really bad plan like Obamacare goes wrong and millions of people start to panic?

 

Obama will come up with incredibly bad fixes on the fly, because he has unlimited money to work with. 

 

It doesn't matter how wrong, unfair, against the law or anything else you can think of, this is the way it works. 

 

As Drew mentioned (something I've never thought of before), we don't have a competing plan.

 

We've got nothing to fight with, so let's hope Obama's changes work.

Posted by: jwest at October 31, 2013 07:48 AM (u2a4R)

90 Did you read that piece in the fake online magazine Salon about the "pernicious myth" of Obama's incompetence?

It was so dishonest and light on truth, I laughed through the whole thing.

Posted by: Marcus at October 31, 2013 07:49 AM (GGCsk)

91 >>The smart move is to vote neither yea or nay, rather not vote at all or vote present. >>Let the Dems fashion whatever manner of remedy they want and continue letting them own it all. >>Voting present obstructs nothing. Exactly. The liberal msm wall is cracking. CBS, NBC, ABC, are all reporting on this disaster and laying the blame right where it belongs, on Obama and the left. Even Politico is starting to see that defending Obama is untenable now that the reality of this law is upon us. We are all getting hurt, everyone, with the exception of the FSA and a few select liberal constituencies. But even the FSA is going to find that getting "free health care" which amounts to Medicaid for most won't mean shit when they can't find a doctor who will see them. The least bad strategy once we lost in 2012 was always to get the hell out of the way and remind people often and loudly that we warned you and if you want it fixed elect more Republicans.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2013 07:49 AM (g1DWB)

92 What % of Americans are in Medicaid now? What % of Americans will be in Medicaid once the Obamacare transition is complete?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:49 AM (ZPrif)

93 I was livid that the stupid repubs on the committee yesterday did not pound Sebelius on this point, Drew.

She kept saying open enrollment goes until March.. but the people being cancelled have to have coverage by Jan 1!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 31, 2013 07:50 AM (f9c2L)

94 (plenty of boobies in there for the morons, too


Yes, but they're covered!

Posted by: EC at October 31, 2013 07:50 AM (GQ8sn)

95 Obama's NBC poll rating was down at 42%.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at October 31, 2013 07:50 AM (b9K4P)

96 Syria, Iran , bankrupt and polluting green companies , IRS scandal, Benghazi cover up, etc etc. I honestly think Obama string pullers have welcomed this Obamacare controversy.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at October 31, 2013 07:50 AM (ETWo2)

97 The only thing to be done is to repeal obamacare. Period. The gop should not help fix this no matter how much people are hurting. That is thr first, last and only offer.

Posted by: Kreplach at October 31, 2013 07:51 AM (gTnJn)

98 80% of signups in some of the states reporting are for Medicaid.

Posted by: Boss Moss the Redskin Savage at October 31, 2013 07:51 AM (Kud5A)

99 People don't want to be called "racist" simply for not liking someone.

Can I use homophobia as my defense? Xenophobia?
---

Maybe mendacophobia.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 31, 2013 07:51 AM (Hx5uv)

100 Do you think the implementation of the employer mandate next year will affect this at all?

Posted by: Hal at October 31, 2013 07:51 AM (MftY/)

101 but I was told by some posters here that the drive to single payer is unpossible The drive isn't. Arriving at the destination is. If 404Care can't sign up 30 million, do you really think it could sign up 315 million? Overnight? Because when ocare implodes, they have to have something. They don't have another three years & 500 billion to wait.....

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 07:51 AM (KvM9d)

102 But Republicans want to ban tampons and launch criminal investigations of miscarriages. Y U H8 WIMIN DREW

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (RsR8X)

103 97 The only thing to be done is to repeal obamacare. Period.

I was think repeal and prosecute.  A man can still dream, right?

Posted by: George Orwell at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (Vv4Go)

104 >>but I was told by some posters here that the drive to single payer is unpossible It is impossible. I had a well thought out plan to have Kate Upton become my love slave and bear my children but the plan seems to have failed. So will the drive to single payer. Republicans are not going to vote for single payer when they didn't even vote for Obamacare. Not happening.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (g1DWB)

105 If you ignore me, I forcast PAIN, in your future

Posted by: Math at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (q+zA9)

106 That a few eggs have to be broken to make their socialist omelet is a small price to pay.

**


Its amazing. Who appointed these fuckwit-dweebs in charge of anything. The arrogance that they are responsible for controlling your well being is breathtaking.


 

Posted by: dananjcon at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (wmU4G)

107 >Obama's NBC poll rating was down at 42%.<

Even the RCP Avg., which is generous, is 44%.

And it was only pulled up by Rasmussen's unbelievable 48%.

I have some friends who are true believers now calling him a fraud. There is no way he's at 48%

Posted by: Marcus at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (GGCsk)

108 BREAKING NEWS... Same people involved in handling the tech side of the AOSHQ podcast asked to fix Obamacare website...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at October 31, 2013 07:52 AM (oFCZn)

109 Tell the truth: Would you hire Ezra Klein to clean a toilet, let alone have any control over public policy?

Posted by: ejo at October 31, 2013 07:53 AM (GXvSO)

110 >>That a few eggs have to be broken to make their socialist omelet is a small price to pay.

They have to destroy healthcare and the health insurance industry in order to save it, eh?

Posted by: Lizzy at October 31, 2013 07:53 AM (JRmiD)

111

(All that being said, Drew, you're not wrong on how this will be spun as the Republican's fault and fuck it I'm not opening the door tonight and I'm going to eat all that candy myself.)

 

---

 

Extra points if you open the door then eat the candy in front of the kids, ATC.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 07:53 AM (/Crba)

112 To date the GOP has kept ObamaCare at a distance and the blame should fall to the Democrats but faced with these innocent bystanders being hurt, the GOP is going to be under great pressure To Do Something! And quite frankly, it's not going to be an unreasonable demand.

Their response should be: We're not going to double down on Stupid!

Posted by: John P. Squibob at October 31, 2013 07:53 AM (kqqGm)

113 Just accuse the Left of being "bigots". It's a general catch-all term and is usually true. By being general you can keep it vague of whether you are accusing them of being bigoted against conservatives, or Christians, or Catholics, or whites, or gun owners, or stay at home moms, or whatever. It's a good verbal grenade to throw at people you hate and want to make feel bad about themselves. Which is what they're doing when they call you a racist.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (ZPrif)

114 108 BREAKING NEWS...

Same people involved in handling the tech side of the AOSHQ podcast asked to fix Obamacare website...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at October 31, 2013 12:52 PM (oFCZn)


Oh shit we'll be pixielated.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (MnSla)

115 I think I would fuck that girl next to Ezra, unless she stands up and is a fatty.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (0FSuD)

116 BREAKING NEWS... Same people involved in handling the tech side of the AOSHQ podcast asked to fix Obamacare website... #twoweeks

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (KvM9d)

117 Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2013 12:52 PM (g1DWB And how did that prevent Obamacare?

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (ETWo2)

118

Rasmussen, for whatever reason, has been on the high side for Obama's approval rating for some time.  Here is the RCP poll of polls:

 

http://tinyurl.com/dhwd2n

Posted by: tofer732 at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (z3MpN)

119 All of this stuff about crappy plans and higher premiums.  Add to that what ObamaCare has already done to the economy with former full-time employees now working part-time or 1099 without benefits.  A lot of people are working two or three part-time jobs.  Plus a record low employed labor force.  Trillions of dollars transferred from the private sector (or borrowed from future generations) to pay welfare benefits.  The ONLY FIX is to REPEAL this economy-killing program.

Posted by: mrp at October 31, 2013 07:54 AM (HjPtV)

120 And let's be honest, some of these people are going to die because of Obama's lies and quest for power. Can you really give the GOP grief if they try and protect these people? Unfortunately, I can and I will. There's a saying that Hard cases make bad law. I believe it. No amount of suffering justifies institutional compassion based on robbing innocent bystanders.

Posted by: toby928© responds a hundred comments late at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (QupBk)

121 34 My simple questions is: Is everyone who technically qualifies for Medicaid being forcibly enrolled in it when they sign up for Obamacare? Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 12:37 PM (ZPrif) ---------------------------- That seems to be the case. And, as I understand it, you can't buy a supplemental policy today if you are on Medicaid. What your friend CAN do is use Medicaid as a sort of catastrophic back-up (for hospitalization and major procedures) and then look for a concierge doctor or any doctor who will take cash. Then, rather than helping out with insurance costs, you could help out with actual care costs. I think y'all should go see an insurance agent to see what options you have.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (dfYL9)

122 Justice Roberts sure seems to have choaked his chicken on this didn't he?

Posted by: Math at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (q+zA9)

123 single payer is very possible. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar or an idiot. Or both.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (ZPrif)

124 All Obama needs to do to fix Obamacare is to hire Pixie to fix the website.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (Hx5uv)

125 If 404Care can't sign up 30 million, do you really think it could sign up 315 million? Overnight? Because when ocare implodes, they have to have something. If only there were an economic system and an industry that could handle the insurance needs of a nation...

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (FcR7P)

126 1 MKH on the PodCast? You made her do it topless, right? Posted by: garrett at October 31, 2013 12:28 PM (cz6g+) Pictures or it didn't happen.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2013 07:55 AM (0FSuD)

127 As Drew mentioned (something I've never thought of before), we don't have a competing plan. Posted by: jwest at October 31, 2013 12:48 PM (u2a4R) I didn't say that. I said the GOP doesn't have a plan to fix the damage in the next 30-45 days that Obama has intentionally created. Those aren't the same things.

Posted by: DrewM. at October 31, 2013 07:56 AM (r+LOT)

128 Extra points if you open the door then eat the candy in front of the kids, ATC.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 12:53 PM (/Crba)


I've done that. Kids parents were pissed.  It was ok though. It wasn't my apartment.

Posted by: Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) at October 31, 2013 07:56 AM (MnSla)

129

If you start listening to certain people, the talking points are shifting, just as predicted.

-It's not working because of insurance companies' greed

-We should have never enacted this REPUBLICAN program (which the GOP had nothing to do with but because "Romney"....)

-Single payer will fix this.

Posted by: Hawkins at October 31, 2013 07:56 AM (DuTGc)

130

take the gloves off

 

we need a Joe Wilson "You Lie!!" moment

 

people want to believe the JEF

 

he just told them is the insurance companies fault.  He is even "running" against the government by pretending he didn't know what a cluster fuck this was going to be

 

its like when he runs against Congress.  He is blaming the industry and bureaucracy.  Who hasn't had a run around with them on something.  Except if is in charge

 

someone please oh please take the muzzle off of Cruz's mouth

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 07:56 AM (zOTsN)

131 Wait -- supplemental policies are illegal if you are on Medicaid? They are legal with Medicare. Supplemental insurance is really illegal for people on Medicaid?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 07:56 AM (ZPrif)

132 I am starting to think we are getting the UK sheep syndrome. Do what the queens says, you are just her subjects.

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2013 07:57 AM (0FSuD)

133 Obama's NBC poll rating was down at 42%.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at October 31, 2013 12:50 PM (b9K4P)




I'll bet there was a lot of weeping at NBC over that one

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 31, 2013 07:57 AM (1Jaio)

134

Oh and as for those polls...... wait until the polls are *started* with the media paying attention to the problem.  Most of these polls were getting info either before the media (all of the media) finally started reporting on the problems or just as a few outlet started.  Now it seems everyone is talking about it and more people are getting the info.  Start asking those same questions in a week or so and I think oblabo will get a nosebleed from the g-force of his plummet.

And people simply say they like him personally because they don't want to be labeled as a racist. 

Posted by: madamemayhem at October 31, 2013 07:58 AM (S2RnE)

135 If the people want the government to get involved in healthcare, then passing an appropriate constitutional amendment should be easy.

Posted by: Jean at October 31, 2013 07:58 AM (fW/Ev)

136 Justice Roberts sure seems to have choaked his chicken on this didn't he?

Posted by: Math at October 31, 2013 12:55 PM (q+zA9)





He deserves a big kick in the nuts (if he has them) over this

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 31, 2013 07:58 AM (1Jaio)

137 Let the plan fail. Do not try to"fix" it. If both the democrat and republican parties get hurt by Obamacare, then let the new party of "conservatives" or whatever it will be called, run on repealing it.

Posted by: Chilling the most at October 31, 2013 07:58 AM (gxtMZ)

138 they are arguing they wanted single payer but the republicans insisted on this market business and that's the part that's a mess  arghhahhahhahh

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 07:58 AM (zOTsN)

139 Who's Ezra Klein?
What an annoying rat-faced twat!
He wouldn't last 30 seconds in any public venue where I'm from.
That's a good thing.

Posted by: Amos Singletary, but west of the Mississippi at October 31, 2013 07:58 AM (tfSla)

140 Thanks for the song artisanal 'ette! I appreciate the thoughts so much.

Posted by: jeannebodine at October 31, 2013 07:59 AM (2LJqa)

141 And the majority of the electorate nods in approval of Dear Leader. We're screwed.

Posted by: The Narrative at October 31, 2013 08:00 AM (WSjlp)

142 >>>The question was will the failure of ObamaCare finally discredit big-government liberalism.

**


Do LiV's equate this fiasco to Liberalism? Do they understand what socialism is? As time marches on the negative repercussions of liberal/socialism become increasing whitwashed in the schools and the media. Some moron said it yesterday...teach yer children well and maybe all is not lost.

 

Posted by: dananjcon at October 31, 2013 08:00 AM (wmU4G)

143 How about the Republicans do a Christmas special Telethon to raise monies for those Tiny Tim's who were thrown out into the snow sans Health Insurance due to the incompetence and narcissism of Crotchety Obama Scrooge? Is Dickens too white for America?

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at October 31, 2013 08:02 AM (oDCMR)

144

Osmosis.

 

That's the answer.

 

As conservatives, we should do nothing, don't devise any alternative plan and just let Obamacare collapse on itself.

 

Then, everyone - the LIVs, the press, liberal officials - will all realize how stupid they've been and come to our side.

 

Of course, they would need some method other than the media to get the information to come to that conclusion.

 

Ergo... Osmosis.

 

They will just absorb the knowledge through their skin.

 

Somehow.

 

At least we can hope.

Posted by: jwest at October 31, 2013 08:02 AM (u2a4R)

145 Justice Roberts sure seems to have choaked his chicken on this didn't he?

Posted by: Math at October 31, 2013 12:55 PM (q+zA9)




He deserves a big kick in the nuts (if he has them) over this
---

Out, damned spot! out, I say!--One: two: why,
    then, 'tis time to do't.--Hell is murky!--Fie, my   
    lord, fie! a soldier, and afeard? What need we
    fear who knows it, when none can call our power to
    account?--Yet who would have thought the old constitution
    to have had so much life in it.

Posted by: Lady Justice Taney Robeerts at October 31, 2013 08:02 AM (Hx5uv)

146 Let the plan fail. Do not try to"fix" it. If both the democrat and republican parties get hurt by Obamacare, then let the new party of "conservatives" or whatever it will be called, run on repealing it. --- Yep. Let them own this clusterf*ck. The only "fix" should be a repeal of it. Otherwise, try to force them to follow the law as written.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 08:02 AM (/Crba)

147 141 And the majority of the electorate nods in approval of Dear Leader. We're screwed.

Posted by: The Narrative at October 31, 2013 01:00 PM (WSjlp)

 

They might have nodded their approval in 2012, but not now.  Even the job approval polls of adults (not likely voters) show Obama's job approval several points underwater.  Wait until the next batch of people start losing their health insurance over the next 60 days - he will be yearning for Carter's approval ratings.

Posted by: tofer732 at October 31, 2013 08:02 AM (z3MpN)

148 Now I'm not sure there's anything that can be done at this point. You can't just wave a magic wand and undo all the cancellations or make everything work smoothly come January 1. Sure you can. Repeal and tell people to call their insurance companies. That's what they do. You could also let insurance companies compete across state lines and do some litigation reform while you're at it.

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 08:02 AM (FcR7P)

149 Its amazing. Who appointed these fuckwit-dweebs in charge of anything. The arrogance that they are responsible for controlling your well being is breathtaking.


And the bovine masses chew their cuds and feel no sense of outrage at all.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (8ZskC)

150

head of Real Clear Politics says the fact he lied about being able to keep your plan has not been polled yet

 

that those are being polled now and will be released next week

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (zOTsN)

151 @142 Limbaugh made the point yesterday on his show that (a) there didn't seem to be any Republicans questioning Secretary Hatchet-Face, and (b) there certainly were none calling for the out-right rejection of Socialist medicine.

Posted by: Amos Singletary, but west of the Mississippi at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (tfSla)

152 One estimate says 129 million people aren't going to be able to keep the health care plan they have.

... yeah, until the employer mandate comes around next year.

Posted by: Zahir Omar bin Hamdoon at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (e8kgV)

153 As Drew mentioned (something I've never thought of before), we don't have a competing plan.

The "competing plan" is revert to the way it was since that obviously wasn't as bad as this.

In IT this is known as backing out a bad fix.

Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/u][/s] at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (4tK7k)

154 143How about the Republicans do a Christmas special Telethon to raise monies for those Tiny Tim's who werethrown out into the snow sans Health Insurance due to theincompetence and narcissism of Crotchety Obama Scrooge? Is Dickens too white for America?   --- Can we have Obama ranting about the "surplus population" and talking about sending people to the poorhouse?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (/Crba)

155 Old and busted: Mexican nationals stealing Middle Class American ID's New and fresh: Middle Class Americans stealing Mexican National ID's Progshevics encourage lawlessness.

Posted by: pc at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (AMUZ1)

156

@53   The   solution   to   government    screwing   something   up   as   completely   as   possible   is not   the   government   then   attempting   to   unscrew   it.    All   that   happens   is   DP.

 

 

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by: Foul Harold at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (m/WmK)

157 >>And how did that prevent Obamacare? You might have noticed that the Dems controlled both house of Congress and had the presidency and still had to bribe certain Dem senators just to vote for this thing. The Republicans now control the House and they aren't voting for single payer. I don't care how much people think they are RINO losers they aren't fucking insane. They aren't going to give liberals the one thing they have been trying to get since the 1930s. Everyone knows liberals have always wanted single payer, its not exactly a secret. But proving they are 1) dishonest and 2) totally incompetent when it comes to implementing monstrous health insurance legislation is not going to help them sell the country on going into Medicare.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2013 08:03 AM (g1DWB)

158 115 I think I would fuck that girl next to Ezra, unless she stands up and is a fatty. Fat chicks usually have fat upper arms, and the pretty prog there has thin arms, so I think she's good to roll. I'd hit it. Of course, she's a Lefty so I'd have to gag her first.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (7ObY1)

159 Do LiV's equate this fiasco to Liberalism? Do they understand what socialism is?
---

No. The best we can hope for is that they will abandon Obama and seek to find the One True Savior who can finally make socialism work.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (Hx5uv)

160 jwest, your fake conservative schtick is getting weak. Up your game, man.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (ZPrif)

161 Posted by: Lady Justice Taney Robeerts at October 31, 2013 01:02 PM (Hx5uv)

Great nic. Taney Roberts.

The shit deserves it, although if I was the ghost of Roger Taney I'd be pissed at having my name associated with his.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (8ZskC)

162

I didn't say that. I said the GOP doesn't have a plan to fix the damage in the next 30-45 days that Obama has intentionally created.


Those aren't the same things.

 

Posted by: DrewM. at October 31, 2013 12:56 PM (r+LOT)

 

It's jwest, Drew.  Syntax, content and coherency are beyond his grasp.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (zF6Iw)

163

150head of Real Clear Politics says the fact he lied about being able to keep your plan has not been polled yet

that those are being polled now and will be released next week

 

 

---

 

 

They polling that people know this or what they think about it?

 

I have a feeling they'll twist the questions in a way to say they're OK with being lied to because, hey, better insurance!

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (/Crba)

164

The problem is never the shortages caused by Socialism.  It's always that there's too many people.  All you have to do is match the number of people to the amount of available resources.  This is where Chairman Mao and Pol Pot were heading when stopped.  There was also a government official in Zimbabwe who stated it almost exactly that way.   It's not a shortage of toilet paper.  The problem is too many asses.

 

Posted by: OCBill at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (rFipM)

165 Err Progsheviks aka Pigshits

Posted by: pc at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (AMUZ1)

166 The alternative plan is, "your government is neither your insurance company nor your doctor."

Posted by: t-bird at October 31, 2013 08:04 AM (FcR7P)

167 One could understand the NSAÂ’s propensity to listen to the conversations of those foreign leaders who wish us ill. And one would expect that it would do so. But the urge to listen to the leadership of our allies serves no discernible intelligence-gathering purpose. Rather, it fuels distrust between our nations and in the case of Merkel exacerbates memories of the all-seeing and all-hearing Stasi, which was the East German version of the KGB that ruled that police state from the end of World War II until it collapsed in 1989. Merkel was raised in East Germany, and she has a personal revulsion at the concept of omnipresent state surveillance.

Obama apparently has no such revulsion. One would think heÂ’s not happy that his own spies have been listening to him. One would expect that he would have known of this. Not from me, says Gen. Keith Alexander, the director of the NSA, who disputed claims in the media that he told Obama of the NSA spying network in Germany last summer. Either the president knew of this and has denied it, or he is invincibly ignorant of the forces he has unleashed on us and on himself.

When Susan Rice, ObamaÂ’s national security advisor, was confronted with all of this by her German counterpart, she first told him the White House would deny it. Then she called him to say that the White House could not deny it, but the president would deny that he personally knew of it.

Posted by: Eugenio Martinez at October 31, 2013 08:05 AM (e8kgV)

168

156
@53 The solution to government screwing something up as completely as possible is not the government then attempting to unscrew it. All that happens is DP.


BWAHAHAHAHA!

 

---

 

I think we're already at the point where the general public is getting DVDA from the administration.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 08:05 AM (/Crba)

169 Taney Roberts was like the worst Charlie's Angel ever. She made Shelley Hack look good. Taney Roberts was funny on That 70s Show though, while she lasted.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 31, 2013 08:06 AM (7ObY1)

170

It's not a shortage of toilet paper. The problem is too many asses.

 

---

 

And of course, the asses in charge are the ones who will decide who the "undesireable" asses are to be wiped out.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 08:06 AM (/Crba)

171 I love Rasmussun's poll.

Posted by: Sandra Flook at October 31, 2013 08:06 AM (wmU4G)

172 104 Republicans are not going to vote for single payer when they didn't even vote for Obamacare. Not happening.

A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you, given what we have in Congress now I am uncertain.

Posted by: Null at October 31, 2013 08:07 AM (P7hip)

173 single payer is very possible. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar or an idiot. Or both.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe


Unfortunately the Dems are using the Underpants Gnomes' biz plan.

The idea that the Dems are going to campaign on single payer next year is fanciful.

What's their pitch?  "We had to destroy your insurance because you didn't like it!"

"Dirty Capitalist Pig Dogs ate your HC plan!"

"That? That was just a practice swing."

There is no Step 2, and Step 1 has been a gigantic, laughable, obscene, obvious, universal, unmitigated failure.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 31, 2013 08:07 AM (xz0nG)

174 The alternative plan is, "your government is neither your insurance company nor your doctor."

Or your retirement plan.  If government social engineering is discredited badly enough by 404care maybe Social Security can finally go on the chopping block.

I can dream, can't I?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 31, 2013 08:07 AM (8ZskC)

175 TransCanada Corp. chief executive Russ Girling acknowledged that opponents of the Keystone XL pipeline have slowed its approval, though he said his company remains committed to the project.

“There’s no question that the noise outside is having an influence on the process,” he said today, in an interview in Washington. “The project has been hijacked by activists that are opposed to the development of all fossil fuels.”

Girling, who met with State Department officials about the project yesterday, expressed frustration with the five-year review by U.S. regulators, saying the process for evaluating cross-border energy projects must change. He said he has stopped giving the companyÂ’s investors an estimate of when the approval process will be complete.

Posted by: Reddy Kilowatt at October 31, 2013 08:07 AM (e8kgV)

176

when the JEF instituted "permatorium" stopping all permits for oil in the Gulf, the oil companies naturally left.

 

now a few permits have trickled through, but the companies aren't coming back, not like before

 

because of the uncertainty.  they will not hang their asses out there again only to get slammed again

 

even if JEFCare were immediately repealed, insurance companies may be very careful about entering the market with the same products that they had before JEFCare.  they will not want to get slammed again

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 08:07 AM (zOTsN)

177 Barry the plant showed us all the ways to profit from fake citizenship. Changing my last name to something that ends in Z. Ka-ching. They have really fuck this country over. Why do Progsheviks foul their nest? Inbreeding?

Posted by: pc at October 31, 2013 08:08 AM (AMUZ1)

178 I'd hit it. Of course, she's a Lefty so I'd have to gag her first. Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 31, 2013 01:04 PM (7ObY1) Me too, they usually gag on my load, yours also?

Posted by: Nip Sip at October 31, 2013 08:08 AM (0FSuD)

179 I love, love the Christmas special!

I have my Christmas card planned and I can't wait. It does involve dressing dogs (sorry). Dressing up my one dog as Obama at a podium, saying, "If you like your HC plan, you can keep you plan", next to my other dog, dressed as a mourner, standing next to a headstone with my name carved on it. What do you guys think? Any better ideas?

I can't wait. My immediate family are all stone Obamabots and their heads are gonna explode. We send about 120 Christmas cards so I get to send my cheery message far & wide. We always send a "timely" photo card but this will be the best one yet!

Posted by: jeannebodine at October 31, 2013 08:08 AM (2LJqa)

180 >>A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you, given what we have in Congress now I am uncertain. What happened in 2010 after Obamacare was voted in? The Tea Party/conservative wave in the fall. The House has become even more conservative than it was in 2009. Not going to happen.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 31, 2013 08:09 AM (g1DWB)

181 Its hard to resist as a congressman when the choices are bags of money or an NSA file. It is over. Politics are nearly deceased due to the nest fowlers.

Posted by: pc at October 31, 2013 08:09 AM (AMUZ1)

182

154 143How about the Republicans do a Christmas special Telethon to raise monies for those Tiny Tim's who werethrown out into the snow sans Health Insurance due to theincompetence and narcissism of Crotchety Obama Scrooge? Is Dickens too white for America? ---Can we have Obama ranting about the "surplus population" and talking about sending people to the poorhouse?

 

How about Grinch Obama and ValJar reveling in all the cancelled insurance policies in their eagles lair while the cute big eyed white villagers have no health care? I would imagine Mochelle could be the beast that propels the Grinch sleigh. Its not like ValJar doesn't already embody Grinch like features. And then we could all sing Christmas Carols and drink.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at October 31, 2013 08:10 AM (oDCMR)

183 Anyone who worries about single payer is just crazy, I tells ya! Why, the Republicans have control of the House and always will, I swears! Why, the Democrats haven't had the House since 2009. My guess is they never will again. What? Millions of people are being forced onto single-payer Medicaid programs against their will? Well ... that's not hundreds of millions all at once so that doesn't count! Counting the fast-growing rolls of Medicaid isn't fair! That's totally different! Stop worrying about single payer! It's unpossible!! I swears!! There's nothing to worry about! Go back to sleep!!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 08:10 AM (ZPrif)

184 So we drop 1/3 (130,000,000) of the country's population fromr their insurance and add 30 million illegals to OUR insurance tab.

Posted by: Rob in Katy at October 31, 2013 08:10 AM (gdGJ1)

185 Spoonerism?

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 31, 2013 08:11 AM (ZshNr)

186 It may be time once again to point out that a bunch of felons voting illegally for Sen. Franken-- as well as the total wuss-out by his opponent, the former Democrat Norm Coleman-- produced the last necessary vote in the upper house.
Don't take my word for it: let g00gle log your search.





And not only did they not read the bill-- as open-textured a legal document as it was possible to pen-- they explained that they should not be expected to read it.
There is much work ahead of us.

Posted by: Amos Singletary, but west of the Mississippi at October 31, 2013 08:11 AM (tfSla)

187 The once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with Blood, or Inhabited by Slaves.

Posted by: George Washington at October 31, 2013 08:11 AM (QK5RA)

188 The best passive resistence is Anglos legally changing to Spanish surnames and running for office. We must make a mockery of identity politics.

Posted by: pc at October 31, 2013 08:12 AM (AMUZ1)

189 Maybe during one of the commercial breaks they could run the Hillary 2008 ad where she's cheerfully placing presents labled "Healthcare", etc. under a Christmas tree.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 31, 2013 08:12 AM (JRmiD)

190
Republicans are not going to vote for single payer when they didn't even vote for Obamacare. Not happening.




Agree to raise the Medicaid income ceiling even more, while lowering the Medicare age limit. Close enough to single payer for government work.

And you know there are at least 20 Northeastern Republicans in the House that would jump on board for that.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 31, 2013 08:12 AM (kdS6q)

191 My cool Preezy sez some scary man named Cruise is da hole reezon I cant get gud helth isnurance for free now wit rich old white guyz like Mitt rMoney paying for it like dey SHUD cuz dey be RICH and I be poor an shit. I hope dey dont meen Ton Cruise cuz he kute but I think it be sum Tee Party dude or sumthin and dey all rayciss and dey suk!!!!!1!! So it prolly be him. N E way, I herd the same thing frum my girl nex door and I herd it on da newz two so I think it be the falt of these tee party azzholes ZOMG republikkkkkans suk! But I no it not my preezy's falt cuz he be kool and he hang wit Jay Z and shit.

Posted by: The LIVs at October 31, 2013 08:12 AM (7ObY1)

192

"That means if you have coverage now that is being cancelled on January 1, you have to have new coverage in place by December 15th of this year (there's usually a 2-4 week delay between buying coverage and when it kicks in). That means millions of people are going to flood the system just to keep something near what they have. Imagine the panic if you have an ongoing medical condition and your policy is about to be cancelled and you simply can't buy a new one anywhere at the moment. And if you can buy a policy at some point, there's no guarantee that come January 1, your doctor will be able to keep you as a patient. So in the middle of dealing with an illness you have to not only find a new policy but also a doctor and hope you can get in to see them ASAP to get continuing care. That must be terrifying. "

Whatever...

Bah Humbug - Bitches.

Posted by: Field Marshall Sibelius at October 31, 2013 08:13 AM (QKYRm)

193 Single payer is unpossible! I'm an expert and I've studied the issues involved and I tells ya -- it's just not in the cards, ain't gonna happen. So yous can rest at ease, single player is what we experts call an unpossibilitude! And you can take that to the bank! Did Single Payer happen last night? No. Will it happen tonight? No. Therefore we can use a sciencetician technique called extrapolatin' and see that, by dint of our extrapolotin', that it ain't can't ever gonna happen! It's Science!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 08:13 AM (ZPrif)

194 The best passive resistence is Anglos legally changing to Spanish surnames and running for office. First!

Posted by: Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho at October 31, 2013 08:14 AM (FcR7P)

195 George Washington be careful, talk like that can lead to a banning

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 08:14 AM (zOTsN)

196

And you know there are at least 20 Northeastern Republicans in the House that would jump on board for that.

 

---

 

I guess our definitions of "Northeastern Republicans" must be different, because I don't think there's 20 left if you're counting from New York and New Jersey up through Maine.

 

The RINO is an endangered species in Massachusetts, Vermont, Rhode Island, Maine, Connecticut, Delaware, etc.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 31, 2013 08:14 AM (/Crba)

197 Another point, The Wicked Witch of ACA said during her testimony that like her, 95% of the population had good health care, just like her. So we are screwing all these people for just 5% of the population...wtf?

Posted by: Rob in Katy at October 31, 2013 08:15 AM (gdGJ1)

198 Nood up

Posted by: rickb223 at October 31, 2013 08:15 AM (KvM9d)

199
I'm not sure *anything* can be done to alleviate the royal screwing that people are getting. Can we force reinstatement of the cancelled policies? Only by repealing the Obamacare mandates that voided those policies in the first place. Would Obama go for that? Not in a million years.

The Democrats shoved the country off the Obamacare cliff, and no amount of scrambling is going to levitate us back to the top. The fact is, the private insurance market that existed before October 1 is dead, and will not be revived. The choice now is not Obamacare or the status quo ante bellum, but Obamacare or a replacement system. The Dems have their plan: single payer, which ratchets the handcuffs even tighter. And our replacement is ... what?

As for the people being hurt, as Mencken pointed out, "Democracy is the theory of government that states that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it, good and hard." The people re-elected Obama, and now we're getting him, good and hard.


 

Posted by: Brown Line at October 31, 2013 08:15 AM (VrNoa)

200 So the Democrat spin for everyone getting their policies cancelled under ObaminationCare seems to be that you were too stupid to pick a fancy enough insurance policy for yourself. Kinda like if you have a Camry and the government swoops in and tells you that you're some kind of ignorant hillbilly for driving it, and forcing you to buy a Mercedes, whether you can afford it or not so they can you to death for buying it, then use that tax money to buy everyone else a car. And then, after they bankrupt all the other car companies, and only Mercedes is left, you find out that the govt owns Mercedes (single-payer) . Only in the meantime, they have taken Mercedes from a luxury brand and run it to the ground so it's more like Yugo. And mark my words, they will eventually not even to be able to keep the Yugo standard up, so you will be forced to by a Camry ( private insurance) in addition to your Yugo.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at October 31, 2013 08:16 AM (B3K4S)

201

Northeast Republicans?

 

hell what about Kasich.  I know he is not in the Congress but every bluish state pub will jump on it

 

and so would a President Christy

Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 08:16 AM (zOTsN)

202 >>>the GOP is going to be under great pressure To Do Something! And quite frankly, it's not going to be an unreasonable demand.

Thankfully though, a caucus of unreasonable, unrealistic, extremists, just gained a huge bump in credibility in the "DO SOMETHING!" subject. I once stood in a board examination someone to whom I was fond to some degree. After a few reasonable answers, it became my turn to ask a question. A question devised cleverly to be not an obvious soft ball, but nonetheless easy to answer correctly. And my friend fumbled it badly and failed the board. He later rebuked me for having asked the question that caused him to fail. I said "I threw you a bone, I didn't expect you to pick it up and stab yourself in the eye with it"

Such has been the conduct of the Republican Party. Getting conservatives to move off of top dead center for a big political push is no easy task. Yet when presented with this absolute GIFT of an issue, and chance to, even in failure, build a huge amount of credibility with the American people, they responded that they would rather lose the issue, and lose elections, rather than continue to abide tea party influence within the Republican party.

At some point in the very near future temporary kerfuffle of the shutdown will be long forgotten. But Obamacare will be the gift that keeps on giving. And will the people then long for some proof of steely resolve to push back on this horrible legislation. Yes I think so. Will they remember somewhat more fondly the efforts of Lee and Cruz, if not outright come to a full reversal on point. I think so. This was the one of the backup goals if our stretch goals could not be achieved. And everyone in the party had a ticket to get on that train, that the most prominent members promptly tore up and discarded.

A gift rejected due to their love of prominence, indifference to the issue. It is more important to kill the Tea Party within the Republican Party than to implement a conservative agenda. The bell is already pealing for your funeral GOP, the US and indeed the World has no need for a more measured version of progressivism.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at October 31, 2013 08:16 AM (0q2P7)

203 Senate Republicans are rocking and rolling again.  Just voted down Obama's liberal nominee to the DC Circuit and Mel Watt to head the Federal Housing Finance Agency.

Posted by: rockmom at October 31, 2013 08:17 AM (aBlZ1)

204 George Washington be careful,talk like that can lead to a banning Yep. I have a deciduous sock puppet who dares not raise his head.

Posted by: toby928© responds a hundred comments late at October 31, 2013 08:17 AM (QupBk)

205 Now raisin' that there Medicaid income eligibility limit and lowerin' that there Medicare age limit might mayhaps sound like a pretty dang obvious way to get pretty dang close to full out Single Payer. But that there's too complicated of a plan for the liberals to enact. We'd see it comin' a mile away. So, once again, just want to reassure everybody that Single Payer is an unpossibilitude. I done did the theorizin' and fact-checkin' and all and it's a mathematical, biographical, geographical unpossiblitude. I swears!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 31, 2013 08:17 AM (ZPrif)

206

"The "competing plan" is revert to the way it was since that obviously wasn't as bad as this.

In IT this is known as backing out a bad fix."

 

It's my  belief that we are past the point where going back to what we have is an option.

 

Nor should it be an option.  We're paying a hell of a lot of money to provide emergency room care to people who could be handled cheaper in some type of program.  We don't have a clue how much of our tax dollars are being spent on treating illegal immigrants.  Half the healthcare dollars spent in the country are for the 5% that are in the last 18 months of their lives.  People on Medicaid are getting treatments that very few private insurance policies would pay for.

 

Shit needs to change.  When everyone is running through the streets in panic because a democrat plan has failed is the perfect time for a republican plan.

 

 

Posted by: jwest at October 31, 2013 08:17 AM (u2a4R)

207 Old and busted: Mexican nationals stealing Middle Class American ID's

New and fresh: Middle Class Americans stealing Mexican National ID's

Progshevics encourage lawlessness.

Posted by: pc at October 31, 2013 01:03 PM (AMUZ1)

**



I'm still up for the land swap deal.  All of NJ for the Yucatan peninsula.


Posted by: dananjcon at October 31, 2013 08:17 AM (wmU4G)

208 Um, Drew. They're already doing it, at least in the House. Reid and Obama are blocking their efforts. And as bad as this is, the media still refuses to report that. " You can't just wave a magic wand and undo all the cancellations or make everything work smoothly come January 1." We can do the next best thing. Call for full repeal of the ACA and a rollback of the regulatory monstrosities it spawned. Stop whining about how hard it is and just do it.

Posted by: Galos Gann at October 31, 2013 08:18 AM (dOgt0)

209 We're going to get something even worse than single payer....Single Payer for everyone except the "rich". You make $80K, health care is free. You make $90K, you pay $10,000 a year. You make $100K, fuck you, you, pay 100% out of pocket. That's what's coming.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 31, 2013 08:19 AM (0LHZx)

210 "even if JEFCare were immediately repealed, insurance companies may be very careful about entering the market with the same products that they had before JEFCare. "

Well, they can't be too comfortable NOW with 2014 Dem senators calling for a delay of the individual mandate, with the West Wing blaming them for ALL of the pain, with Dem congresscritters sneeringly referring to them and employers as "capitalists". With "Fix!" "Fix!" "Fix!" being the political war cry on the Left, it's going to be six of one and a half-dozen on the other for Big Pharma and Big Med.

Posted by: mrp at October 31, 2013 08:19 AM (HjPtV)

211 The GOP must not do anything to fix Obamacare, but they damned well better have a market-based plan of their own to fix the problems that everybody recognized were there before the passage of this monstrosity. They should be pushing to get away from employer-based insurance, maybe by not letting employers expense employee health insurance and instead letting them contribute tax-free to employee's own health/retirement savings accounts. What the healthcare system desperately needs is feedback to the consumer about the true cost of medical services. If there was a real healthcare market, costs would go down drastically.

Posted by: mikesixes at October 31, 2013 08:20 AM (avuKt)

212

199
The Democrats shoved the country off the Obamacare cliff, and no amount of scrambling is going to levitate us back to the top. The fact is, the private insurance market that existed before October 1 is dead, and will not be revived.

 

Nonsense, money and demand will always create a market, especially one that is driven by the mantra of "I want what Obama took from me" from the same source and Doctor. That would be the only fix the Republicans should consider offering. Absent that, then let the Obamatards swing on their gibbet until their bodies rot.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at October 31, 2013 08:20 AM (oDCMR)

213

Before you get the podcast up, you might want to remember there's 2 a's and 1 e in Katharine.

Posted by: steveegg at October 31, 2013 08:21 AM (o44nj)

214 And I still maintain that for liberals the 10 million or whatever number it is that will lose their policies is a price worth paying. If you were buying insurance on your own, chances are you are not a Democrat. So it's basically Republicans that are getting fucked. It's a two-fer for libs, they get bigger govt and as an added bonus, their enemies get punished.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 31, 2013 08:22 AM (0LHZx)

215

No, the private insurance market is not dead and will be back immediately if the stupid Obamacare regulations are repealed.  It might take a little time for people to get back the coverage they lost at the same price, but if the market is allowed to work, the vast majority of them will.  Insurance companies make good money selling cheap policies to healthy people and if there is money to be made somebody will make it, if the government lets them. 

 

This can be looked at as a golden opportunity to educate a lot of people about what insurance really is and how it is supposed to work.  Why not allow health insurance to be sold similarly to car insurance - you want a low deductible and coverage of every possible condition, you add that on to the basic policy and you can see exactly how much each add-on will cost you.  If you buy a policy that does not cover, for example, mental health services and you later need them, you should be allowed to buy coverage for that, but you will pay a lot more for it just as your car insurance premium goes up if you have a bunch of accidents or speeding tickets.  Everyone who drives a car knows how this works.  

Posted by: rockmom at October 31, 2013 08:23 AM (aBlZ1)

216

214 And I still maintain that for liberals the 10 million or whatever number it is that will lose their policies is a price worth paying. If you were buying insurance on your own, chances are you are not a Democrat. So it's basically Republicans that are getting fucked. It's a two-fer for libs, they get bigger govt and as an added bonus, their enemies get punished.

Insightful post. Thank you Mr. Moo Moo.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at October 31, 2013 08:24 AM (oDCMR)

217

Republicans are not going to vote for single payer when they didn't even vote for Obamacare. Not happening.

and

The idea that the Dems are going to campaign on single payer next year is fanciful.

You don't have to, it's the long game.  You have to campaign on "this is a Republican model or this is the fault of the free market and that's why it doesn't work"  You don't offer the solution, you deny and obfuscate.  Then when you win the House...

They're going to run against their own bill.  Remember, Joseph Cao voted for it, it's bipartisan


Posted by: Hawkins at October 31, 2013 08:24 AM (DuTGc)

218

They better not try to help "fix" this thing. When your enemy is drowning you don't throw him a rope.  Are innocent people going to suffer, yes, probably, but no quick fix is going to make this thing work. It's not a bad law, it's a destructive law and  the only real fix for this is total repeal. Not a piecemeal approach, which is actually what I fear they  will attempt, but total repeal. And furthermore, in laying the groundwork for the repeal they have to scream from the rooftops repeatedly that not a single one of them voted for this thing and that this law is quintessential liberalism and why  Democrats should not be allowed to hold power. Hang it around their necks, make them own it, and punish them good and hard.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at October 31, 2013 08:25 AM (JxMoP)

219

Step 1, repeal Obamacare

Step 2, Block grant money to the states for high-risk pools, allowing the unisured/uninsurable to obtain coverage. Possibly combine with block-grant money for Medicaid. 

Preferably, the states would just implement it and the feds would be out of it altogether, but they won't because they would have to raise taxes without a corresponding cut at the federal level. In the absence of that, this might be the lesser of two evils.

Posted by: Jon in TX at October 31, 2013 08:26 AM (PYAXX)

220 The idea that the Dems are going to campaign on single payer next year is fanciful. What's their pitch? "We had to destroy your insurance because you didn't like it!" NO! Their campaign is: This current system which sucks is unworkable because we had to partner with those EVIL BAD VERY NO GOOD INSURANCE CORPORATIONS. Everything wrong is their fault. It'll work when we cut them out as a middle man and Papa Government steps in and fixes all their evil corporate-y ways.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b] at October 31, 2013 08:26 AM (sByIH)

221

The Republican "fix" had better be just this:

 

Repeal.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at October 31, 2013 08:27 AM (PZ6/M)

222 Keep something in mind: This isn't an accident, it was their plan all along.


That a few eggs have to be broken to make their socialist omelet is a small price to pay.


They want an omelet, let them break their own fucking eggs for once

Posted by: kbdabear at October 31, 2013 08:28 AM (aTXUx)

223

"This can be looked at as a golden opportunity to educate a lot of people about what insurance really is and how it is supposed to work."

 

Absolutely correct.

 

However, if we're going to have insurance, it should only be for truly insurable risks.  This means catastrophic only.

 

There shouldn't be any insurance that pays for normal, everyday, foreseeable events.  Those costs should be paid directly from the patient to the provider, just like you buy every other goods or service.  Pick the lowest advertised price. 

 

No more not knowing what something costs because someone else is paying the bill.

Posted by: jwest at October 31, 2013 08:31 AM (u2a4R)

224

And one more thing: Conservatives need to also point out to the public that there's a real chance that even more people could lose their insurance after the employer mandate kicks in. Those who are losing their coverage now and seeing their payments skyrocket are likely to be only the tip of the iceberg. If you like your plan and want to keep it, and if you like your doctor and want to keep him, then you have no choice but to vote the Democrats out of office in large enough numbers that a presidential veto can be overridden.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at October 31, 2013 08:31 AM (JxMoP)

225

In an ideal world, there would only be private insurance, not sponsored by an employer.  People could choose the features they want, such as premiums, coverage, deductibles, etc. High deductible plans would be the norm, HSA accounts for every plan, and employers would contribute tax-free to an employees HSA/premium support as a benefit.

You'd never have to worry about losing your coverage when switching employers or losing your job. Your premium wouldn't suddenly triple or more if you had to use COBRA. Insurance would in most cases be catastrophic and basic medical needs would be paid out of pocket, except for maybe one well-visit per year. Out of pocket max that was reasonable and could be selected by the purchaser. I could even see the ability to purchase "out of pocket max" insurance on the secondary market as a hedge. 

Posted by: Jon in TX at October 31, 2013 08:31 AM (PYAXX)

226 When libs want to insure 30 million uninsured Americans they have to uninsure 129 million insured Americans.

Typical liberal "thinking".

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2013 08:32 AM (Hx2XA)

227 195 George Washington be careful,talk like that can lead to a banning Posted by: thunderb at October 31, 2013 01:14 PM (zOTsN) Just a quote from one of my old letters about old times. Sadly, history destined to repeat itself if tyranny is not stopped.

Posted by: George Washington at October 31, 2013 08:33 AM (QK5RA)

228 When libs want to insure 30 million uninsured Americans they have to uninsure 129 million insured Americans. Typical liberal "thinking". There's a voice screaming in every leftie's head, "Tear it all down!" They come up with all sorts of rationalizations for doing what that voice in their head screams, but in the end, they're just doing what the voice tells them to do.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b] at October 31, 2013 08:34 AM (sByIH)

229 "Only by repealing the Obamacare mandates that voided those policies in the first place. Would Obama go for that? " No kidding. That's why you don't fucking ask him. The House passes a repeal bill. The Senate passes it too. The President vetoes it. The Senate overrides. This is the way bad laws are dealt with. All we need to do is figure out how to exert enough pressure on the Senate to make it happen. Again, we know exactly what we need to do to fix this. Do we want it fixed, or do we want to give our representatives excuses to evade their responsibilities?

Posted by: Galos Gann at October 31, 2013 08:36 AM (dOgt0)

230 "You don't have to, it's the long game. You have to campaign on "thisis a Republican model or this is the fault of the free market and that's why it doesn't work" You don't offer the solution, you deny and obfuscate. Then when you win the House... They're going to run against their own bill. Remember, Joseph Cao voted for it, it's bipartisan " This is what concerns me. I'm not worried about the RINOs. I don't think even McCain would vote for the shit sandwich considering how unpopular it is even among his constituency, and by that I mean the MSM and LIVs. No, what concerns me is Reid, Pelosi, and the rest of the Merry Moonbat Brigade successfully deflecting blame yet again. And what worries me about the RINOs is that they'll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and fail to force the moonbats to own their shit.

Posted by: Saber Alter at October 31, 2013 08:36 AM (ohtdI)

231 217 Republicans are not going to vote for single payer when they didn't even vote for Obamacare. Not happening. Posted by: Hawkins at October 31, 2013 01:24 PM (DuTGc) _________________ Expansion to single payer can come purely from the executive now. What will lead to single payer is an ever increasing income level for Medicaid. Obamacare basically allows anyone to be on Medicaid. HHS decides the income level. If HHS tomorrow decided anyone making under $100M a year is automatically enrolled in Medicaid, it would be so, without any votes in Congress.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at October 31, 2013 08:38 AM (0LHZx)

232

Re: The Ras poll.....Zero's combined approval is 48 percent. His Strongly Approve number is 25, his strongly disapprove number is 40.

Beware polls interpreted by commenters with one common name, like Bob, Greg, Joe, etc.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at October 31, 2013 08:38 AM (YmPwQ)

233 Hey, just pickup 6 Senate seats and then repeal. Simple really.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at October 31, 2013 08:42 AM (oDCMR)

234 You still gotta have enough votes for an override of the inevitable veto.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at October 31, 2013 08:43 AM (YmPwQ)

235 If only we could have somehow taken over the branch of government responsible for funding this thing and cut off the money...

Posted by: Thatch at October 31, 2013 08:44 AM (qYvEa)

236
In someways having the GOP have just enough power (control of the House) to take some of the blame but not enough to actually do anything will prove to be the best thing that happened to Obama. In the long run, it will likely be terrible for the country.

I call bullshit.

The public's attitude is changing rapidly. Oh, sure, the Dems are gonna blame the GOP. Big fucking deal.

Guess what? That tactic isn't working out too well for them on this one.

As more and more of the Obamacare fuck-ups pile up the public isn't going to blindly follow the media on this one. They remember Obama making all of his promises.

What do you think millions of people are gonna think when they see their health care plans cancelled or their premiums and co-pays skyrocket? Do you really think they're gonna think about some 30 second sound bites they saw on the nightly news blaming Republicans?

Nope.

They're gonna think about all of the promises Obama made that turned out to be bullshit. They're gonna think about all of the glowing predictions made by the administration and the media -- and how wrong they were.

Millions are gonna be mighty pissed, and the lower the profile the GOP keeps the more of that anger is gonna be aimed at Obama.

The only thing the GOP should so is jeer at the failures as they pile up.

The last thing the GOP needs to do is offer advice on how to "fix" things. If the Dems or media want to get snarky by challenging the GOP for something better or some kind of fix, members of the GOP should just say it's too broken for them to fix.

Throw it back in the Dems face. Let it burn and jeer as it does. Tell everyone "we told you so."

Anything else is political suicide.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 31, 2013 08:45 AM (tOkJB)

237

Hey RNC!

During next weeks Monday Night Football between the Packers and Bears, a classic midwest rivalry...place a 30 second spot about what has happened.

Start with the Obama quote "elections have consequences" and then scroll all these negative headlines across the screen in chronological order from Fast and Furious to IRS to NSA to Benghazi to Obamacare.

At the end, play "elections have consequences" again then say "with all these scandals and failures, America must really hate Republicans. If you want a real change,  call your representatives in congress and let them know"

 

Posted by: sgmstv at October 31, 2013 08:45 AM (T0dFH)

238 WE MUST DO SOMETHING! THIS IS SOMETHING! WE MUST DO THIS!

Posted by: Scott M at October 31, 2013 08:54 AM (AdBfq)

239

I do enjoy the optimism that the public is going to turn on Obama when every media outlet continues to tell them that it's not the logic of the proposal not making things work, it's the racial animus/not caring about the poor/greed of the GOP that's making things fail.  That was Howard Fineman of the HP on of all things Tony Kornheiser's show giving "analysis" of why the GOP is fighting so hard against ACA.  Racial animus.  He's a "respected" journalist.

Posted by: Hawkins at October 31, 2013 08:55 AM (DuTGc)

240 "I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing... Even if it means a lousy political outcome for them and the country. "

...

Are you fucking crazy? Are you actually suggesting that the Republicans go to bat for motherfucking OBAMACARE and rescue the Democrats from their own hubris and stupidity? The Democrats who have spent the last five fucking years calling them racists, bigots, un-American, seditionists, anarchists, and traitors? On the grounds that the Democrats, who passed this POS legislation entirely on their own through deceit, overt bribery, and questionable protocols, have (surprise!) fucked up both theory and execution and that makes you sad?

This nightmare is EXACTLY what Republicans warned it would be. Actually, given the Day 1 website meltdown, it's worse. This horrible trainwreck, that Obama and co. INSISTED be enacted on time, will do more to discredit the centralized, technocratic, authoritarian, unaccountably wild-spending blue model than any number of eloquent, rational, fact-based polemics, especially since the entire media establishment are now liberal propagandists.

And you actually suggest moving to rescue it? Jesus fucking Christ.

Hey, whenever they enact oppressive racial-purity laws, maybe we should hasten to aid them then, too. You know, clean up the margins, maybe reduce some of the worst effects. I mean, how could you just sit and watch tens of millions suffer when you can happily share blame and make it so that only millions suffer? I mean, who cares if that's a lousy 'political outcome' for everyone except your political blood-enemies? What's important is that we use the government to DO SOMETHING.

This is, honest to God, the stupidest thing I've ever seen at this site. 'Hey, this is our best chance to show how our agenda of individual liberty and minimalist government is better for people, proving everything we ever said about this shit 100% correct; let's piss it all away on an emotional impulse, rescuing people who would happily see us stripped of our rights (and aren't shy about saying so) in the process.'

Damn it. I just felt the urge to go become a Democrat. Reading this, I think that maybe their assertions that people are too stupid to govern themselves are correct.

Posted by: dawnfire82 at October 31, 2013 08:57 AM (1/hzQ)

241 {i}Anything else is political suicide.{/i}

My friends, I'm on it!

Posted by: John McInsane at October 31, 2013 08:57 AM (NXg/k)

242 Republicans are not going to vote for single payer when they didn't even vote for Obamacare. Not happening.

Big Business loooooves single payer, and they're calling the shots at the RNC.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 31, 2013 09:04 AM (B/VB5)

243 There's a voice screaming in every leftie's head, "Tear it all down!"

They come up with all sorts of rationalizations for doing what that voice in their head screams, but in the end, they're just doing what the voice tells them to do. Posted by: bonhomme


But only if it's something that wasn't made by liberals.  They'd never tear down Social Security,  welfare, food stamp program, etc.  They love tearing down anything made by conservatives.  Like the constitution,  the armed forces, etc.  People with insurance policies are now seen as conservative.  And if people are losing their policies?  They deserve it because they're behaving like conservatives.  Now when the libs start losing their insurance they start freaking out because it wasn't supposed to happen to them.  They're good people!  And when they start seeing that Obama is doing bad things to good people... that's when the fun starts.

Posted by: Dang at October 31, 2013 09:10 AM (Hx2XA)

244 I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing. And let's be honest, some of these people are going to die because of Obama's lies and quest for power. Can you really give the GOP grief if they try and protect these people? Even if it means a lousy political outcome for them and the country. It's a brutal situation to be in.

Obama is what the country voted for.  In 2008, a 60 vote Senate and Speaker Pelosi is what the country voted for.

So yes, the GOP should not try and protect these people.  Particularly when the "protection" being discussed ONLY DELAYS the pain.  Whereas, allowing the pain to happen now will make it MORE LIKELY that we can repeal Obamacare in the future.

This kind of knee-jerk "we have to help people" reaction is exactly what conservatives SHOULD NEVER THINK OR FEEL.  It is exactly this kind of thinking that helps protect democrat voters from the consequences of their votes and allows the media/dems to pretend teh GOP is just as responsible for various boondoggles as the dems.  This kind of thinking ends up giving bi-partisan cover to democrat idiocy.

We should NEVER protect the nation from the consequences of its own votes.  If we do that - how do we expect these idiots to learn? 

I am surprised that you would even suggest such a thing.  It is foolish.

Yes, it is sad people will lose their coverage.  Including, probably, me.  But delaying it to give the democrats cover is not going to help anything and will only make things worse in the long run.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at October 31, 2013 09:23 AM (sOx93)

245 "I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know
how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get
screwed like this and do nothing... Even if it means a lousy political outcome for them and the country. "

Then let them (the millions of hardworking Americans)  do something. The fact is most people in this country, probably 80% are still not informed or engaged in this battle.  A small activist base is trying to hold of the horde while most people, even those on our side, just go about their lives as if all the noise coming out of Washington doesn't affect them.   Time to turn off the TV, wake up and get engaged or get steamrolled by the left.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 31, 2013 09:42 AM (Vv4Go)

246

The only option is to offer repeal and start again. 

Every year this God forsaken bill delivers a new turd sandwich.  Next year is when people with employer insurance get the heave ho.

Massive rate hikes continue and  the insurance death spiral happen.

Few years down the road, "Accountable Care Organizations" take hold to turn all physicians into government bureaucrats (I'm one of them and I'm aware I'm on the clock).

Yes, people are going to suffer in the short term but to pave over that suffering is to build the highway for the time when "we all find equality in the dirt on our backs and bellies."

Posted by: JT in KC at October 31, 2013 09:48 AM (ro2Zl)

247

"Are you fucking crazy? Are you actually suggesting that the Republicans go to bat for motherfucking OBAMACARE and rescue the Democrats from their own hubris and stupidity?"

 

I'm glad this happens to other people too.

 

I spend 90% of my time arguing with people who read every third word of what I write then fill in the blanks with some liberal fantasy of theirs.  Why?  I have no idea.

 

Are they just too fucking stupid to convert the words into an idea that basically conforms to what was written?

 

Is English a second or third language to them and they honestly can't understand it?

 

Do they understand what is written, but for some reason want to change the meaning just to fight?

 

Who knows.  The mystery lives on.

 

 

Posted by: jwest at October 31, 2013 09:49 AM (u2a4R)

248

I've occasionally been tough on the GOP (no, it's true) but I don't know how they stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed like this and do nothing. And let's be honest, some of these people are going to die because of Obama's lies and quest for power. Can you really give the GOP grief if they try and protect these people? Even if it means a lousy political outcome for them and the country. It's a brutal situation to be in.-Drew

 

Drew, you have been tough on the GOP. But, I must disagree with you when you state, "They stand by and watch millions of hard working Americans get screwed...."

When was the last time you saw the Big 4 LSM outlets state, "this ACA isn't working, et al'? The GOP (House) as attempted how many times to repeal it. They shut down the government........GOP (Senate) well they are a fucking joke.

 

About the only thing IMHO at this time they could do would be to get a Fed Court to grant an injunction to stop the individual mandate for the same time the employer mandate has been postponed. What TFG did with that should be an impeachable offense.

 

Yes, the GOP will be blamed. It always has and always will. But the rolling stone is gathering full speed. And there isn't a whole hell of a lot they can do at this point. We, as Americans either accept the I promise I won't cum in your mouth or we fight, through ballots and courts.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at October 31, 2013 11:03 AM (HVff2)

249

so you are saying the GOP will be blamed for the damage done by ObamaCare because they didn't "do something" when they control one third of the governement ?

Thats your argument ?

really ?

 

Posted by: JeffC at October 31, 2013 11:27 AM (A3tpD)

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