August 31, 2008

NRO *Rebuttal* Thread
— Ace

Some are bothered by the Palin-skeptics at NRO. Rebut their arguments here.

Posted by: Ace at 09:47 AM | Comments (183)
Post contains 18 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Well, now I'm not in the mood.

Posted by: runninrebel at August 31, 2008 09:50 AM (qAMnO)

2

Check out Camile Paglia's statement here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4641030.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

“We may be seeing the first woman president. As a Democrat, I am reeling,” said Camille Paglia, the cultural critic. “That was the best political speech I have ever seen delivered by an American woman politician. Palin is as tough as nails.”

 

Camile Paglia, wow!

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 31, 2008 09:51 AM (CzeN8)

3 I'm surprised by the amount of vitriol from some of the NROers regarding Palin.  What they apparently don't understand is that for those of us out here going about our lives in the real world (i.e., not living or thinking about the world in abstracts) we tend to view typical DC politicians - from both parties - as an elitist, out-of-touch bunch who really don't care about our day-to-day lives.    Rightly or wrongly, that impression does not include Palin.  Some of the admin staff in my office on Friday were high-fiving each other after the announcement, and I've never seen them ever display anything like that over a political situation.  Three ladies at the place I get my hair cut spent the entire time I was there yesterday talking about how excited they were over Palin's nomination.  Shoot, my golfing buddies are all in favor of her.  The difference is that Palin comes across as a real person with real-world experiences, not some plastic, law-degree-holding narcissist who only thirsts for power ala B. Clinton, J. Edwards, J. Biden, etc.   She is something very different from normal DC ways, and she energizes every-day people like I've never seen (at least on our side of the spectrum).  Those who nit-pick and attempt to tear her down actually reflect an out-of-touchness on rheir part. 

Posted by: Ken at August 31, 2008 09:52 AM (ezybs)

4 You took all the fun out of it now...

Posted by: The Obvious at August 31, 2008 09:52 AM (1g+FW)

5 Brookhiser has a lefty wife, for what it's worth.

Posted by: NRO basher at August 31, 2008 09:53 AM (x35Fs)

6 My argument which is not an argument per se but a question that I have asked before (and no one has answered) is what does NRO and others hope to accomplish by attacking Palin?  Do they want McCain/Palin to lose? Do they think McCain is going to dump her now?

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 09:53 AM (PRn5M)

7

Let's start with Brookhiser and his call for a "new base?"

Sorry bud, but you dance with the ones that brung ya.  Your base is what it is.  You yourself argue that the founders would have approved of today's partisan rancor and agressive politcs.  Guess what, part of that is lining up behind your nominees.

Us knuckledragging hicks figured it out and reluctantly got behind McCain.  Time for you to do the same for Palin.

We don't need a bunch of simpering ninnyism now that the ticket is set.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 09:54 AM (wgLRl)

8

They're still a bunch of cocksuckers. 

Just doing my part to keep the numbers up.

funky chicken, thanks for the links in the thread Ace closed, I think I have a new favorite band.

Posted by: DPR VIII at August 31, 2008 09:56 AM (4XUD3)

9 NRO is on the fast track to irellevance.  Does that Derbyshire prick even know what century it is?

Posted by: buzz at August 31, 2008 09:56 AM (kwhut)

10 IMO, Goldberg has been reasonable.  He's made comments I disagree with, but with a light enough touch that I think he's acting in good faith and -not- attempting to backstab Palin.

Brookhiser has been abominable.  Seriously.  I have a pretty thick skin, but I can't remember the last time I found another conservative's comments as offensive.

McCarthy has been great, and thank God he called Brookhiser on the carpet.

Frum and Ponnuru and Krauthammer (yeh, I know, the last isn't NRO but he's been a big enough douche to get special mention) are acting like typical inside-the-beltway, oh shit here comes another "reformer" assholes.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 09:57 AM (anXNR)

11 The people at the NRO make my Taco POP!


Posted by: Shawn Johnson at August 31, 2008 09:57 AM (gBnKJ)

12 Do they think McCain is going to dump her now?

Well, yeah.  There's still a couple of days to go until the pick is officially official.  They still haven't gotten over that Romney isn't the nominee and that McCain wouldn't instantly choose him as his veep.

Posted by: Tom at August 31, 2008 09:58 AM (Gt4ZT)

13 That Down's baby and M-16 that Richard Brookhiser mocks represents choices she made that show Palin has conservative instincts, as Andy McCarthy rebutted later in the corner.

Was there anybody, besides Ramesh Ponnuru, making the case that McCain has conservative instincts before this pick?

When the Republican Party ceases to be a vehicle for the conservative movement and becomes a vehicle for perpetuating its own power, this voter will not play that game.

And, to paraphrase Brookhiser, when the conservative and libertarian intelligentsia becomes palpably threatened by conservative reform, perhaps we need a new intelligentsia.

Posted by: Oschisms at August 31, 2008 09:59 AM (MEOwc)

14 I'm not fat, I'm big boned.

Posted by: NRO Employee Who Shall Not Be Named at August 31, 2008 09:59 AM (MMC8r)

15 My argument which is not an argument per se but a question that I have asked before (and no one has answered) is what does NRO and others hope to accomplish by attacking Palin?

Beats me. On the other hand, what did all of us hope to accomplish by bashing McCain after he won the nomination?

Posted by: AndrewR at August 31, 2008 10:00 AM (JJGKw)

16

Come on.  Here's the one-line unassailable rebuttal:  Palin is the first true conservative on any ticket since Ronald Reagan.  Since Ronald Reagan.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it. 

(I'm rebutting that thread or NRO, I guess.  Don't care.  I haven't read their shit.  I just love Palin, and I have to yell it to people like the wind!")

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 31, 2008 10:00 AM (CzeN8)

17 Seems like the NRO guys are backtracking all on their own today.

Well, all on their own, after hundreds of emails from their readers.




Posted by: mesablue at August 31, 2008 10:00 AM (5yNaE)

18 Hey, NRO guys, you know who you wonder how the "do and/or write about politics for living inside the beltway" crowd just doesn't "get" us here in middle America?

That is how we are looking at a lot of you right now.

Posted by: Natalie at August 31, 2008 10:01 AM (74LYN)

19 Many had been saying that certain NR columnists were "in Mitt's pocket". This bizarre reaction by some of them to Palin's name only adds up to this perception.

Posted by: oy at August 31, 2008 10:02 AM (byuLf)

20

another great band, come from Mississippi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYXm7n62nU

I'm sure that cocksucker Broohiser wouldn't get it.  They're just too hickish for his tastes, I'm sure.

Yeah that thing he wrote over there has me just on fire.  Nothing on that thread you disappeared was strong enough of a response.  I'm not sure words could suffice.  I'd vote to let Todd Palin work him over with a hockey stick.

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 10:02 AM (xyyHG)

21

Palin is in my opinion what our entire government should look like, so reading somehting like one of Krauthammer's pieces is just surreal to me.  I think they might be a little out of touch at NRO.

Posted by: Dr. Chopper at August 31, 2008 10:03 AM (WDwH+)

22   We were *supposed* to lose this election anyway, people!  Seriously, what the fuck?  Bush is anathema to the general American electorate at this time.

If we're gonna lose, lets lose it for the right reasons and go down swinging.  Okay?  The base is ready to at least put on the fucking boxing gloves, now.

Posted by: The Chewbacca Defense at August 31, 2008 10:04 AM (nuuDA)

23 Yes, I, too, would like a blueprint for Brookdoucher's new base.  I assume we get excited over the war and just bend over on every other issue, right?

It seems to escape him that Sarah Palin doesn't strike anyone as the type of leader who would go wobbly on matters of national security or the war.  For crying out loud she seems to be one of the least prone-to-equivalence politicians amongst those who were in the Veep pool.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 10:04 AM (xFNQx)

24

I'm especially disappointed with Krauthammer's take, since I take his opinion seriously. 

Frum is upset, I think, because his ox is getting gored.  His meme is that old style conservatism is dead, yet McCain goes and fires up the base by nominating.....wait for it.......an old style conservative.  If this works, Frum is going to have egg on his face.

Ponnuru, lets be honest, had always been an odd bird.  I do not know how to quantify him, though there is something Robert Novakish about him, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Derbyshire: Buchanon-lite. 

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:04 AM (wgLRl)

25

Hmmm, in keeping with the new AOS policies:

Those chaps over at NRO need a little love tap on their cushy bottoms to help enable them to descend from on high and commune with the unwashed masses on occasion.

Uh oh, I said 'bottoms'.  Feel free to ban me.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at August 31, 2008 10:04 AM (WhFvm)

26 Do they think McCain is going to dump her now?

Well, yeah.  There's still a couple of days to go until the pick is officially official.  They still haven't gotten over that Romney isn't the nominee and that McCain wouldn't instantly choose him as his veep.

Posted by: Tom at August 31, 2008 02:58 PM (Gt4ZT)

yep

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 10:05 AM (xyyHG)

27 They read and espouse the academic literature and we're supposed to be in awe of th BS they spit out. I hate NRO and its D.C. elitist BS. They have no idea whatsoever what the rank and file think about anything. They aren't any better than Dobson's or Robertson's outfits which we don't bow in allegiance to either.

Posted by: Laddy at August 31, 2008 10:05 AM (fOChA)

28 Brookhiser's comment was asinine. And you know who did a nice job of pointing that out? Andy McCarthy on...wait for it...NRO.

That said, let's not kid ourselves about Palin. Yeah she seems great but there are a lot of unknowns about her that may or may prove to be problems or assets. And can any one honestly say if Hillary hadn't been such a factor or if Sarah  was  white guy named Samuel, the first term governor of the 48th most populous state with zero national profile would have been the VP nominiee? Really?

Look I'm more inclined to support this ticket than I ever thought I would be but to say anyone who questions the move is defacto off the conservative reservation is just bizzare.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:07 AM (hlYel)

29 #9 Buzz

I used to like Derbyshire, right up until the moment he gave an open dinner invitation at his house to Michael "starvation-is-a-pleasant-way-to-die" Schiavo.

What a schmuck.  I almost want to see how much of a dump he takes over the Palin nomination...

Posted by: Gran at August 31, 2008 10:08 AM (mTWN+)

30 Palin is obviously a very bright woman but can a citizen politician survive in the thieves grotto of Washington DC.

Tough and from Alaska - I think she can do it.

And Crom, from his mountain dwelling will laugh. Little he cares if men live or die. He will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless!

Posted by: 13times at August 31, 2008 10:08 AM (NJVDE)

31

I am already spent on the last flame thread.

Leave the cocksuckers alone.  They'll get the shit beat out of them in St Paul, so we only need to wait and watch.

No hell has the fury of a grassroots GOP woman that thinks her candidate has been dissed.  I wouldn't want to be the NRO "City Boys" next week.

Payback is hell.

Posted by: kempermanx at August 31, 2008 10:09 AM (2+9Yx)

32 And can any one honestly say if Hillary hadn't been such a factor or if Sarah  was  white guy named Samuel, the first term governor of the 48th most populous state with zero national profile would have been the VP nominiee? Really?

Yes, really.  Or do you think the 7 million in 24 hours came from disaffected Hillary supporters?

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 10:09 AM (anXNR)

33 Another Brookhiser gem:

"My more important point was my second—what the Palin pick showed about us. We're six years into the modern Thirty Years War, and conservatives are behaving like they're at a YAF convention, c. 1967. Much is excusable, and even necessary, in times of youth and powerlessness. But we have already seen the two tallest buildings in NYC go, and our first, second and twentieth priorities should be to crush the serpent with our heels."

Fair enough. But if no one reins in spending, if no one reforms Medicare and Social Security, how are we going to afford to crush that serpent? Iraq and Afghanistan haven't been cheap. Iran won't be either.

And those two tallest buildings...they haven't been rebuilt yet. Does Brookhiser know why? Mainly because of the fecklessness of the NYS Republican Party. So by all means, lets have the national party emulate Pataki and Bloomberg without protest.

I told ace that I can rebut their arguments without calling them suckers of cock, and I won't. But anyone who doesn't see those above two points? I wonder how they cross Lexington Avenue without getting hit by a bus.

Posted by: Oschisms at August 31, 2008 10:10 AM (MEOwc)

34

funky chicken, thanks for the links in the thread Ace closed, I think I have a new favorite band.

Posted by: DPR VIII at August 31, 2008 02:56 PM (4XUD3)

:-)  well, at least somebody saw them before they went away

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 10:10 AM (xyyHG)

35 I like most of the NRO guys and don't want to scrap with them.  I just wish they would compromise with the base and put their considerable intellectual firepower to work for our side.  As much as I liked Romney, he would have been a bad pick this election cycle.  He's young and has time to do his part.

To paraphrase Reagan:  You can't do good if you can't get elected.

Can't we all just get along?

Posted by: rodney hussein king at August 31, 2008 10:11 AM (evdj2)

36 Qwin,

And money wouldn't have come in if it had been Pawlenty or Romney? I think the money came in because McCain picked someone people see as conservative.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:11 AM (hlYel)

37

Beats me. On the other hand, what did all of us hope to accomplish by bashing McCain after he won the nomination?

Posted by: AndrewR at August 31, 2008 03:00 PM (JJGKw)

The argument would hold a lot more weight if more than ten people actually read my McCain-bashing.  I'm a moron, yet even I came around on McCain eventually.

What's their excuse on Palin? They should be better than this, they do politics for a living.


 

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:13 AM (wgLRl)

38 Hey, I'll admit that Sarah being an apparently old-school Reagan conservative woman lends the thing a novelty that wouldn't be quite the same if she were some dude, but it would be worthless without the "old-school reagan conservative" part.  That's the foundation of it.  The woman part just makes it extra-special, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 10:13 AM (xFNQx)

39 "And money wouldn't have come in if it had been Pawlenty or Romney? I think the money came in because McCain picked someone people see as conservative."

To some extent, but not nearly all of it.  7 million is bloody huge.  Romney or Pawlenty would've probably gotten 3 million or less in the same time frame, IMO.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 10:14 AM (anXNR)

40

Drew, I think there are many of us who know Palin doesn't walk  on water.  The problem isn't disagreement per se, it's the elitist attitude of many of the hacks at NRO.  Also, the idea that being mean in a flame thread is suddenly off limits.

K-Lo  is a complete and utter hack.  Boo hoo, a few fat jokes were made.  Derbyshire is a cretin.  Woe is me, someone might have said something mean about him.  Give me a break.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at August 31, 2008 10:14 AM (WhFvm)

41 You've officially sold out, Ace. Are you angling for an NRO columnist slot yourself? Not gonna happen, no matter what.

Next, you're going to advocate placing hobos on the endangered species list, and picketing for higher product safety standards outside the gate of the Valu-Rite plant.

This is a sad day.

Posted by: Jim62sch at August 31, 2008 10:16 AM (ubHgw)

42 You know, a lot of the conservative pundit arguments seem to simply be uninformed.  They are simply jumping at an opinion before they know if Palin can handle the challenge.

That's not their fault, media is all about product on time, so by God they had better have an opinion anyway.

Also, it's quite obvious now that Conservative pundits fall mostly into two camps: those that are ridiculed like Hannity and Rush, and those that try really really hard to partly accept liberal dogma in order to establish that they are not insane (I jokingly want to include pat Buchanan here, but that's not what I'm talking about, I 'm talking about Krauthammer).  Conservatives realize that punditry is a Democrat's kingdom in this media climate (just look at Katrina, a story of how Democrats Blanco and Nagin did not do their jobs, and Bush dod more than his job, yet Bush is blamed exclusively).  If a conservative wants to be taken seriously, he has to prove himself a moderate when it's safe to.  It's pretty safe to attack Palin.  She's unknown, she's young, her many accomplishments are known mainly to the small population of Alaska alone.  It was low hanging fruit, so that these conservatives could quickly prove theor bona fide 'moderatness' or 'objectivity' that they can later cash in on an actual opinion that might be negative on Obama.

When conservative pundits do not carefully balance their conservative opinions with 'accepted wisdom' of the left, they get fired.  Pure and simple.  Check out MSBC for the most recent examples, but even Fox News suffers from this with their straight news reportage.

It's like evolution.  The Conservatives who refuse to play this game have gone extinct but for a couple of islands.

Posted by: Shill at August 31, 2008 10:16 AM (8jYMc)

43 I just don't think I would have cracked open my bag of gold for Romney or Pawlenty.  They might have been good, but they aren't inspirational game changers.  I'm sorry, but they just aren't, and Sarah has been, so far.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 10:17 AM (xFNQx)

44 what did all of us hope to accomplish by bashing McCain after he won the nomination?

To let him know that support isn't by default and he'll be getting close scrutiny and damn little "honeymoon".  IOW - he's on probation.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 31, 2008 10:17 AM (6L459)

45

What exactly is this douchebag trying to say with this idiotic commment?  McCain and Palin won't take the WOT seriously?  OK, off for some decaf.  And what a cocksucking twat. 

"My more important point was my second—what the Palin pick showed about us. We're six years into the modern Thirty Years War, and conservatives are behaving like they're at a YAF convention, c. 1967. Much is excusable, and even necessary, in times of youth and powerlessness. But we have already seen the two tallest buildings in NYC go, and our first, second and twentieth priorities should be to crush the serpent with our heels."

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 10:17 AM (xyyHG)

46 Jindal, maybe, but Sarah's a great choice, too.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 10:17 AM (xFNQx)

47

I think NRO is sore because they got duped.  None of them were in the loop they thought they were in, and now their egos are hurt because the McCain campaign kept Palin a secret.

Well, let me call a WAAAAHm-bulance for you, kiddies.  Get over the fact that no one trusted you with insider information..and you know why?  Because you're not an Insider.  I know it stings, but it's true.  Got it?

Once you accept that, then perhaps you can all start rendering honest opinions instead of knee-jerk reactions -- emphasis on the "jerk."

Me personally?  I'm still not voting for McCain.

Posted by: Barbelle at August 31, 2008 10:17 AM (qF8q3)

48

I think the money came in because McCain picked someone people see as conservative.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 03:11 PM (hlYel)

I donated to the campaign yesterday,  and that is the only reason they got one dread cent from me.

Posted by: DPR VIII at August 31, 2008 10:18 AM (4XUD3)

49 Let's see my argument would be bite me you elitist assholes.

Posted by: joan at August 31, 2008 10:20 AM (3SIDD)

50 Qwinn,

You might be right but I find it hard to believe that a woman who most people, even a lot of hardcore blog readers, knew little to nothing about some how would generate twice as much as other candidates. The only way to explain that type of disparity in my mind would be because she was generating excitement with women and reaching beyond just conservatives.

IMO, McCain simply tapped into  a group of people who have been on the fence, at best, about him. Pawlenty and Romney would have done so as well.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:20 AM (hlYel)

51 The problem isn't disagreement per se, it's the elitist attitude of many of the hacks at NRO.

Hermit Dave,

Other than Brookhiser's comment (which I've already agreed to as being off the wall stupid) which NRO writer has been 'elitist'?

My reading has been cautious optimism on the part of most of them.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:22 AM (hlYel)

52 Not sure why K-Lo has taken heat on any of these threads, btw.  She's seemed relatively supportive of Palin, and I haven't seen her hopping on the inexperience bandwagon.  I even recall a piece by her a few weeks ago saying that Palin would be a good idea.  She's been misquoted all over the media, and she's had reader comments she posted attributed to her herself.  I don't care if you don't like her, but that last part should've put us on her defense, just cause we all know how much it sucks to have that happen.  And she's been on the right side on Palin, unless I've missed something.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 10:24 AM (anXNR)

53 The 2 things that really get the NRO's goat I think:

1. The huge potential for a gaffe and a big one. This is why I was stunned by the pick. But the woman gave a killer speech on 2 days notice. She was raised in Alaska and she is tough. She took down Mukowski, roughly akin to taking out Daley, something Obama didn't even give a second thought to. On the surface she doesn't seem qualified but as I have gotten by that very nice surface I pretty much think she really can do this.

2.Social issues. I don't think NRO thinks these are deal breakers. Palin may not put them on the front burner but she won't take them off the stove. If McCain/Palin wins and is reelected she is the republican nominee in 2016. She will be an 8 year VP who was also a governor. NRO would be much happier with a Romney who could be maneuvered on these issues.

Posted by: Rocks at August 31, 2008 10:25 AM (7rbe9)

54 When Hewitt has the "beltway boys" on his show I am always amazed at how out of touch these guys are with regard to what the base thinks. As far as I'm concerned if you are a Washington insider, you have no idea what the base is thinking or what we want in a candidate. Palin has balls (she has done it) to stand up to whomever she needs to, which is more than I can say for any of the NRO beltway guys, the Washington elite, or the insiders of the Republican party.

Posted by: mare at August 31, 2008 10:25 AM (xMkst)

55 Beats me. On the other hand, what did all of us hope to accomplish by bashing McCain after he won the nomination?

I hoped McCain would change his position on immigration. IOW, NRO and you are hoping that by bashing her,  McCain will dump her. Oh, yeah! That's how to win an election, all right!

For a couple of years I had to hear vote for McCain because the other side is worse. Now, the same people are underminding him getting elected because the alternative is better than having Palin asVP.

You can all suck my barbed cock.

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 10:26 AM (PRn5M)

56 IMO, McCain simply tapped into  a group of people who have been on the fence, at best, about him. Pawlenty and Romney would have done so as well.

Shrug.  Romney and Pawlenty wouldn't have made me want to donate.  Palin does, and I would if I could right now  I think she's got better conservative creds than Romney, and frankly I think more people knew of Palin prior to this point than Pawlenty.  Even before the pick, I saw about 10 times more "Palin for Veep!" posts than "Pawlenty for Veep!".  Pawlenty may have a good record, but he's about as exciting as Kemp or Dole, far as I can tell.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 10:27 AM (anXNR)

57

Drew,

I think this is less about Palin than their recent output in toto.

Palin was just the last insult, as it were.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:28 AM (wgLRl)

58 NRO are teh ghey. So there.

Posted by: Kasper Hauser at August 31, 2008 10:30 AM (qcmxH)

59 I used to try and read NRO - even bought a subscription to DTNRO - once, and let it expire  It just never connected with me. 

Off and on I've read "the corner", mostly to find what Goldberg was listing as the time wasting website game of the day.  That was fun.

I haven't even cruised through the corner  for a couple of years, it was just too "insider" for me what with all the neo-con, paleo-con, crunchy-con talk. Guess I'm just not elite enough. (I have a graduate degree, but golly gosh - It's not Ivy covered. Go right ahead and dis me as the base, I'm too stupid to 'get it'. )

Posted by: anne at August 31, 2008 10:30 AM (uJBct)

60

It was a very well thought out, well planned choice!

Change trumps experience this year, I would bet the campaign's internal polls tell them that.

Bill Clinton pointed the way -- the ads practically write themselves, here are some examples.

David

Posted by: LifeTrek at August 31, 2008 10:30 AM (tJTIW)

61 DrewM, there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. I disagreed on a couple of issues with my beloved Reagan. Name another candidate whose unknowns (or what we already know) wouldn't prove to be problems or assets.

Posted by: mare at August 31, 2008 10:31 AM (xMkst)

62 Rick Brookhiser wrote, "May I be so wrong that a hundred harpies will pluck my eyeballs."

From his pen to God's ear.

 

Posted by: maverick muse at August 31, 2008 10:32 AM (F1b/5)

63

The Palin Pick
By NRO Editors

By picking Alaska governor Sarah Palin as his running mate, John McCain has wowed the public and enthused the Right. He has reinforced some of his winning themes — that he has the mindset of an outsider and a fighter against corruption. He has also reinforced his appeal as the candidate more in touch with traditional values on moral issues.

None of McCain’s possible choices was perfect, and attention is being paid to the way that Palin undercuts other McCain themes, such as the importance of experience in foreign policy. Palin will have to reassure voters of her steadiness when she speaks at the Republican convention and when she debates Joe Biden. McCain, meanwhile, will have to carry most of the foreign-policy load himself and showcase his good health.

We hope that the choice of Palin also signals a decisive turn toward a campaign theme of fighting for the middle class. McCain and Palin can and should say that they will fight to protect Americans from our foreign enemies, to stop liberal excesses, and to reform dysfunctional institutions. They should not accept the portrait of middle-class Americans as hapless victims that so many of the Democratic speakers this week portrayed; but they need to show that they share middle-class frustrations. Strength in foreign policy; reforms of taxes and health care geared to the middle class; and a moderate social conservatism: It’s a potentially winning message, and now Republicans have a ticket that is suited to it.








* * *

Posted by: what the fuck are you assholes on about? at August 31, 2008 10:33 AM (1OMSg)

64 Rick's comment "Conservatives love Palin because she has a Downs baby and an M-16" is insulting to me and my own.  I would expect to find a post with those words coming from kosland.  Not the NRO.

K

Posted by: Kestrel at August 31, 2008 10:34 AM (gBnKJ)

65 To borrow a phrase from the Powerline gents, some of the NRO types are apparently looking for a "utopian" style VP candidate, and Palin doesn't fit the bill in that regard.  But exactly who would meet that litmus test?  Hell, even Romney has some serious detractors, Huckabee is, well, Huckabee, and Pawlenty has no name recognition and doesn't appear to be very charismatic.

To all you elite conservative chin-scratchers who are tut-tutting over Palin, you guys don't get to pick the VP, McCain does.  And you know what kind of feedback he's getting from the people that count the most, i.e, voters?  Nothing but praise and "job well done, sir."

Posted by: Ken at August 31, 2008 10:34 AM (ezybs)

66 I second what Joan said. (I said it in the closed thread)

Posted by: mare at August 31, 2008 10:34 AM (xMkst)

67 mare and others,

I am not saying Palin is a bad pick, hell I think she's great. I just think there are some very glaring things about her (the role being a woman played in her selection, her lack of experience, etc) that are worthy of debate and conversation.

My point is just that bringing those things up isn't disloyal or proof that you are a bad conservative. As I said, beyond Brookhiser, I just don't see what NRO has said that is so insulting.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:36 AM (hlYel)

68 We're on it!

Posted by: A Hundred Harpies at August 31, 2008 10:36 AM (xFNQx)

69 The Vice-President has one job and one job only.  To be the attack dog against the opposition.

That's why McCain picked Palin.  He's going to beat the shit out of the Messiah for joining in all the corruption that defines Chicago Democratic politics.  Who in the world is a better messenger for that message than a woman who made her bones by taking on the huge swamp of Alaskan corruption.

Personally I'd prefer it, if the NRO-niks are going to start splitting atoms with their minds, that they actually had the slightest grounding in modern American politics.

Posted by: Earth to NRO at August 31, 2008 10:38 AM (8/0ME)

70

I don't know what to tell you Drew, as many others are seeing the same thing as I.  I'm not going to hurt my brain by dredging through the swill  at the Corner to find examples, although there are plenty.  Here's one post which is somewhat representative of just how staggeringly out of touch many of the writers there are.

As for Goldberg, I don't have any problem with  him on this issue.  He's been evenhanded.  He's an easy target because he's not nearly as clever and funny as he thinks he is, and he's a major dork, but he's not someone I'd call a complete hack.

Finally, if you think Romney would have gotten the kind of donations Palin has attracted, you're kidding yourself.  The people who were fired up for Romney were already donating.  Palin tapped huge new funds.  I have zero opinion on Pawlenty,  other than to note he's not exactly exciting.  Personally, I would have been fine with either Romney or Pawlenty, but kind of just yawned and kept my plans to put on my hazmat suit to go vote for McCain (really against Obama).

Posted by: Hermit Dave at August 31, 2008 10:38 AM (WhFvm)

71 Slightly OT - I was wondering where I had heard the music that the McCain campaign was playing during the Palin announcement in Dayton - it's from the movie Rudy. How awesome is that?

Go underdogs!

Posted by: Jim62sch at August 31, 2008 10:38 AM (ubHgw)

72 It's not a bad thing that we have other prominent leaders like Romney and Pawlenty.  Frankly, unless you really think Mccain is about to die, which I simply don't (I would bet money he is alive in 2017), then the VP, while needing to help the ticket on Mccain's weaknesses and have some executive ability, is not as important as who runs the defense department, the treasury, runs for senate, etc.

A lot of conservatives were loyal to Romney, as take Palin as a slight to him.  Why?  VPs very rarely ascend.  Romney will probably have more influence over the world as a result of this.  In business, in the media, in politics, he is free and his stock is high if he even wants to bother with it.  Pawlenty obviously has a long career ahead of him, and I suspect almost all the attacks on Palin would have been directed at Pawlenty too (and just as unfairly).

The media is simulateously saying we have a short bench and we've left our best candidates on it.  It's a load of crap.

Posted by: Shill at August 31, 2008 10:39 AM (8jYMc)

73 Drew,

Claims that she'd never have been selected if she weren't a woman -are- insulting.  It implies that we only -like- her because she's a woman.  This is an attack expected from the Left, i.e, "Clarence Thomas and Condoleeza Rice are just TOKENS.".  I'm sick of "all conversvative minorities are tokens" argument, and hearing it from our own side is obnoxious.  Is it "proof that you're a bad conservative"?  Well, no, but it is a hint that you've not entirely avoided the Left's identity politics BS.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 10:39 AM (anXNR)

74 Conservative were not pleased by Nixon either. I guess they felt he was a dissembler top to bottom. Times have changed with the net, and a lot of the stuff about Palin is just plain old deception. No one taught me that was allowed.

Posted by: Squire of Dimness at August 31, 2008 10:39 AM (o4MaC)

75 The vp selections are funny as hell. Experience is not important. Oh wait, it is important for the vp. I just made a bet with one of my friends so if anybody is watching the news and they see either

a. One of those random democrat commentators that are on news programs suggest that if McCain dies Palin will be surrounded by neocon advisers
or
b. Pat Buchanon says the exact same thing
Please let me know.

I win ten dollars if a democrat says it first and twenty if they say jews instead of neocons. THE JEWS DID IT!!!!
 

Posted by: bleh at August 31, 2008 10:40 AM (GNCy6)

76 I just don't see what NRO has said that is so insulting.

I found the last two articles by Goldberg about Palin condescending to her and me. And no, I'm not looking them up. They were linked by HA. All this nonsense advice to her is bullshit.

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 10:42 AM (PRn5M)

77

Hermit,

You should click on your own link.  I think you linked to the wrong article.  Pretty much hoisting yourself on your own petard.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:42 AM (wgLRl)

78 >>what the fuck are you assholes on about? at August 31, 2008 03:33 PM (1OMSg) I was wondering when someone was going to get around to posting that. NRO and other conservative pubs have taken turns whacking around every Rep candidate who ran this election. It's one of the things that makes us not team Obama, we can critically look at our own team. If Palin, and we, can't take a little abuse from one or two columns from friendly opinion meisters, she's doomed.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 31, 2008 10:43 AM (VBon8)

79 To all you elite conservative chin-scratchers who are tut-tutting over Palin, you guys don't get to pick the VP, McCain does.  And you know what kind of feedback he's getting from the people that count the most, i.e, voters?  Nothing but praise and "job well done, sir."

Do you know what even better feedback McCain is getting from voters? The kind that is green, folds, fits in your pocket, and buys major ads pointing out Obama's faults. Nobody else could have pulled this kind of cash. I donated for the first time since Dole (I gave him $25 back then, all I could afford on that particular date, before I lost my enthusiasm because the Republican's weren't even trying).

Sarah-cuda = Dagny Taggary/Wyoming Knott/Zoe Washburne/Laura Roslin = SHINY!

Posted by: Jim62sch at August 31, 2008 10:44 AM (ubHgw)

80 I don't know what to tell you Drew, as many others are seeing the same thing as I.  I'm not going to hurt my brain by dredging through the swill  at the Corner to find examples, although there are plenty.  Here's one post which is somewhat representative of just how staggeringly out of touch many of the writers there are.

Hermit Dave,

First of all that's pretty shoddy. There's so many examples you can't actually produce examples or just don't want to. Come on man, that's staggeringly unfair to the people you are accusing.

And as for the example you link to, here it is in full:

How Will Palin Play? (The View from Ohio)   [Jonathan Adler]

Last night I attended a 50th wedding anniversary party in Austintown, Ohio, just outside of Youngstown.  This is Reagan Democrat terrirtory — working class, church-going, union member types.  Given this, it was interesting to hear what people had to say about Sarah Palin — and it was almost uniformly positive, very positive.  I heard people explain that they were inspired by her life story and career, and that having her on the ticket made the race exciting. Said another — who had never voted Republican until he pulled the lever for Bush in 2004, but was now committed to McCain —  "she's just like us." I'm well aware that those with whom I spoke may not be representative, but it was interesting nonetheless.

That's your example of "swill" and "staggeringly out of touch"? He's arguing what a great pick she is! 

You're going to do a little better than that I think. 

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:45 AM (hlYel)

81 OK, maybe flaming the entire NRO was a bit much. But it was the lamest flame war here ever. Hell, the K-Lo comment that brought down the hammer was an attempt to get it back up to AoSHQ flame war standards more than a serious comment about anything she said.

There are plenty of good pieces posted by NRO contributors, but many of them are inside-the-beltway elitists. The one issue that highlights it most in my mind is their overall tepid support for us knuckle-draggers in the NRA. I know particular contributors there pay more than lip service to the 2nd amendment, but most of them wouldn't know an M-16 from an M-1 (anyone want to bet that douche Brookheiser just read it in the photo caption).

When I see a VP pick that doesn't have to go down a Kerryesqe path of generating fake "authenticity" by gettin' her a huntin' license or carrying around a goose that someone else shot (again, bet me), I get pretty excited about it.

On the other hand, I picture the NRO gang as Winthorpe's former "friends" sitting around the table at the club in Trading Places. "Oh, my goodness, Muffy, can you believe we nominated as Vice President a woman who has shot a moose." "Certainly not, Bipsy, and I am flabbergasted that she would do something like that. She didn't eat it, did she?" "Egads, we need another glass of chablis."

Posted by: Andy at August 31, 2008 10:48 AM (8dVfR)

82 Actually no Balrog, that's exactly the right post.  The writer descends from his sanctum into the great unwashed and finds their reaction 'interesting', although perhaps not representative.  He clearly has no clue what average people are going to think about anything.  He was probably surprised that they weren't serving Cristal Chapagne.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at August 31, 2008 10:48 AM (WhFvm)

83 Well I don't think Palin walks on water either, and her foreign policy creds have yet to be established.  But...  she is the VP pick.

What Palin means to me is more of an egg, or genesis if you will.  Something that if nurtured and shown to the American public for what it truly is, will set the stage for conservative politics for gernations to come.

While it is possible that the pick of Palin in the VP slot can come and bite us in the ass later, I can say at least it was worth it.

K

Posted by: Kestrel at August 31, 2008 10:48 AM (gBnKJ)

84 I hate it when one of our won scores an own goal with bad link-fu.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:50 AM (wgLRl)

85 "McCain simply tapped into  a group of people who have been on the fence, at best, about him. Pawlenty and Romney would have done so as well."

Maybe up to a point, but nowhere near to the same extent because they are both fucking BORING.  McCain wanted to shake things up with his maverickyness, and he did...and finally in a good way this time.

Posted by: Dave J at August 31, 2008 10:51 AM (qsGH+)

86 Can't we at least smack Derb with the cat o'nine for all the Ron Paul crap he wrote all year?

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 10:51 AM (xFNQx)

87

Sarah Palin is a woman whose eldest son enlisted in the US Army last fall and is a damn good shot with a high powered rifle.  She sure as hell is ready to crush whatever serpent Brookhiser is speaking about...right now.

Tell me the guy doesn't honestly believe that jihadis would find Mitt Romney more intimidating.  Romney was the weakest of the 4 credible candidates in the debates on military issues....

Romney himself needs to get out and make a strong, unequivocal statement of support for Palin.  If he has any interest in further electoral politics he needs to shut assholes like Richie Brookschiester up now.

"My more important point was my second—what the Palin pick showed about us. We're six years into the modern Thirty Years War, and conservatives are behaving like they're at a YAF convention, c. 1967. Much is excusable, and even necessary, in times of youth and powerlessness. But we have already seen the two tallest buildings in NYC go, and our first, second and twentieth priorities should be to crush the serpent with our heels."

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 10:52 AM (xyyHG)

88 I'll state it again:  my biggest beef (outside of Brookhiser, who hit a low all of his own) has been with those, like Frum and Ponnuru, who claim that she's essentially a token pick.  Bullshit.  She's got much much better credentials than Obama, is on par with Kaine who we wouldn't be hearing bitching about if he'd been Obama's veep, and she is great on policy, the first Reagan conservative on a ticket since Reagan.  We'd be delighter with her if she were a man, but these guys bitch and moan because they can't imagine she'd have been chosen if she weren't an identity politics affirmative action hire?  That's crap, and if that's "friendly fire", I don't see much different between that and the real identity politics koolaid of the left.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 10:52 AM (anXNR)

89

I revise and extend my earlier remarks, Hermit, after reading your remarks.

Honestly, that example is rather innocuous.  At least the guy is actually out and about in native territory taking our temperature, not bloviating about those ignant rubes who fall for Palin (yeah, I'm looking at you, Brookhiser).

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:53 AM (wgLRl)

90 I also have to say that the NRO gives short shrift to the Goldwater libertarians from which Buckley drew his lifeblood. I don't know why they treat us so badly - they seem to think we're a bunch of redneck hicks. Too much time in the Beltway, I think.

Palin can be a major game-changer for libertarians because of her bureaucrat-bashing, Republican-imprisoning, cop-firing ways. I hope South Park picks this up - that would be a good boost.

Posted by: Jim62sch at August 31, 2008 10:54 AM (ubHgw)

91

Someone on that thread was posting as Ebuzzmiller.

Waddn't me.


Posted by: Senator Rev. Dr. E Buzz Miller at August 31, 2008 10:55 AM (vFeQi)

92 Hermit Dave,

You are simply looking to be offended. He was at 50th anniversary party, what about that says, "The writer descends from his sanctum into the great unwashed"?

It's not representative because it was a party which is naturally not a significant population to draw conclusions from because of its limited number and self selecting nature.

Jebus man, he was happy that people who normally don't vote Republican are going to. Again, you need to do better or you just want to be offended.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:55 AM (hlYel)

93

what did all of us hope to accomplish by bashing McCain after he won the nomination?
Getting him to be a genuine conservative and not e.g. pick Joe Lieberman to be his VP choice or think that Mexican illegals can become the GOP's new base. And it seems to have worked to some extent.

And that still leaves the question about what the anti-Palin NRO pundits hope to gain by attacking Palin right away in the same sneering tone as the MSM. What? Dump her now? Then there'd be the mother of all backlashes from all corners, left and right. [No pun intended. Honestly.]

Posted by: andycanuck at August 31, 2008 10:55 AM (qKkaY)

94

But that's the point I'm making Balrog (and the reason I don't want to go looking for links for Drew).  The content of that post is indeed fine on most levels ... it's the tone that's the issue.  A lot of the charges of elitism levelled at Obama are about tone ... and his deafness to  it.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that.  I guess you kind of get the 'vibe' or you don't.  Having worked among types like that for many years on Wall Street (I wasn't always a hermit), I'd like to think I'm pretty sensitive to it.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at August 31, 2008 10:57 AM (WhFvm)

95

 

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:57 AM (wgLRl)

96 I think you're off on that post, Hermit Dave.  The tone was fine.  Seriously.  That's not the post to go off on.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 10:58 AM (xFNQx)

97 Qwinn,

I have bad news for you...John McCain is a politician. If you don't think political considerations come into play you are kidding yourself (and I doubt you are).

But let me ask you something are you really arguing that after two weeks of McCain wooing Hillary voters he just happens to pick a female running mate and that's totally coincidental? Really?

What exactly in McCain's background leads you think he was simply dying to have someone viewed as a hardcore Reaganite on the ticket? How about Rob Portman? He's got a far better resume than Palin? How about Mark Sanford? But taking gender our of the equation Sarah Palin of Alaska was the best conservative on the board?

Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the pick but pretending that Palin's sex has nothing to do with her selection is like saying Obama's race has nothing to do with his success.

Are you arguing that?

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 10:59 AM (hlYel)

98

Hermit,

I get the vibe, don't doubt it for a second.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 10:59 AM (wgLRl)

99  I'll state it again:  my biggest beef (outside of Brookhiser, who hit a low all of his own) has been with those, like Frum and Ponnuru, who claim that she's essentially a token pick.  Bullshit.  She's got much much better credentials than Obama, is on par with Kaine who we wouldn't be hearing bitching about if he'd been Obama's veep, and she is great on policy, the first Reagan conservative on a ticket since Reagan.  We'd be delighter with her if she were a man, but these guys bitch and moan because they can't imagine she'd have been chosen if she weren't an identity politics affirmative action hire?  That's crap, and if that's "friendly fire", I don't see much different between that and the real identity politics koolaid of the left.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 03:52 PM (anXNR)

well stated

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 11:00 AM (xyyHG)

100 Did Romney or Pawlenty have anything like Palin's record on fighting corruption?  I know they aren't as popular with their constituency as Palin is (no one is), but I really don't know if they have that clean-house attitude that Mccain has and DC needs more than anything.

I agree with funky chicken, I won't accept Romney as part of the solution if he doesn't loudly shut this crap down.  Palin isn't perfect, and I don't agree with her on most social issues, but she is a proven leader and on policies has not compromised herself.  She's could use support from the established conservatives, and I'd like to see Romney help.  That said, Romney went way out of his way to help Mccain over the past several weeks, and I'm sure he feels like he earned this more than Palin... there's truth to that, but this is about who we agree is right for the ticket, not who has paid their dues (remember Bob Dole).  I'd sure appreciate it if Romney came back for a bit and expressed that Palin is a great choice and deserves the scrutiny it takes to realize that.

Huckabee must be thrilled that Palin was picked, which I have to admit is the worst thing I can think of to say about her.  Romney suffered very unfairly because of Huck, and I don't want to put motives on him, but he might see this as a serious slight.

If it's not Romney these people want to replace Palin with, then who?  Pawlenty isn't appreciably superior to Palin (I like Pawlenty, but he was just a ploy for swing states).

Posted by: Shill at August 31, 2008 11:02 AM (8jYMc)

101 Hermit Dave,

All I can say is you may want to dial your 'tone' detector down from 11. Seriously, there's nothing even remotely insultingl with what Adler wrote.

I just think if you are going to say there are "plenty examples" of "swill" you should be able to back that up with one or two. I don't think that's asking too much.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 11:02 AM (hlYel)

102

Drew, I'm going to admit bias to  hating the Corner for a long time.  I have no problem with that. I'm sure part if it is because I'm a libertarian and not a conservative.  But please note, that I still read Malkin regularly and although I don't always agree with her, think she's an excellent writer and proponent for the conservative cause.

Also, Palin is clearly a good bit more conservative than I am, and I think she's a terrific pick.  I'm willing to compromise in areas to get a large portion of what I'm hoping for.

Anyway, think we're gonna have to agree to disagree at this one, as I do indeed think most of  the Corner is swill, and having been more or less forced to read it for the past few days, have zero desire to dive back in.

Posted by: Hermit Dave at August 31, 2008 11:02 AM (WhFvm)

103 Was the act of choosing Palin as a running-mate a game-changer? All you have to do is look at the responses she's getting from both parties to see the effect it's having...and this is a good thing. This has thrown everyone off-balance, and everyone's brains are still trying to process what this means to the campaign. And I repeat: this is a good thing.

Sarah Palin is going to have a somewhat longer grace-period before the really intense attacks start because she's a basically unknown quantity. No one knows at this point how she's going to react, what the RNC is going to do to with her, etc.

Heather MacDonald thinks Palin was a hat-tip to the "diversity" mantra of the Left, but this seems to be to be a wrong-headed interpretation. First, Palin is a female -- so what? Someone had to be first for the Republicans, and you're unlikely to find a better candidate than Palin. Second, let's suppose that this pick was a "triangulation" pick meant to shave off a certain percentage of Democrat women; again, so what? That's what the VP pick usually boils down to -- someone who will bring votes to the table come election time. I see this pick as not a sop to the "diversity" movement so much as smart politics.

So far, Palin has made both friends and enemies of all the right people. That's an excellent start.

Posted by: Monty at August 31, 2008 11:02 AM (dCZbI)

104 96,

Thank you for your brevity.

Posted by: Ken at August 31, 2008 11:03 AM (ezybs)

105

DrewM,

Fine and valid points to be true, but how relevant are they, and whatever happened to politics as the art of the possible?  It's late in the game for the NRO-types to be navelgazing.

The board is set, the pieces are moving, and Brookhiser is out playing in traffic.

 

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 31, 2008 11:09 AM (wgLRl)

106 In an attempt to abide by Ace's call for some Compassionate MoronismTM , I'll back off of the NRO a bit.  But first ....

Its "suckers of cock" you f'ing twats!!!!  This "cocksucker talk" is going to offend some inter-webby polling shit-for-brains twerp.  Lets show decorum goddammit!!!

Besides, I thought we were a "smart mil-blog".  When are we gonna put some good ole GI style smack downs on those NRO doo-doo-heads???  To keep up our mil-blog cred, we need to be flinging more mil-style TLAs (3 letter acronyms) at those poopie-heads.

Whoops! I hope the "doo-doo" & "poopie" lines didn't compromise my new found Compasionate MoronismTM and hurt any feeling at "The Corner"....

Posted by: Che Pizza at August 31, 2008 11:10 AM (RLBRw)

107 I think the point Hermit Dave is trying to make is that if Palin undercuts the conservative argument against Obama's inexperience, then the NRO crowd undercuts the conservative argument against Obama's elitism.

While this isn't true of all Corner posters (and I don't have a problem with Adler's post, I do agree that's a bit of a reach, Ponnuru and Frum have much better examples to pick on), it's certainly true of some others.

Qwinn

Posted by: Qwinn at August 31, 2008 11:14 AM (anXNR)

108 Mc Cain is down in the electoral count polls and always has been.  Obama has a much easier time of it since he is  on defense only, needing to just not screw up. McCain had to throw the  long ball. Palin's introductory speech  was eloquent and compact, better than any McCain has given( that I've heard) and certainly more to the point and believable than what I've heard from Obama. Does she have the usual tickets for VP. No. But if she is in the White House for 4 years she will have better tickets than anybody in politics today with the exception of McCain himself, assuming he survives 4 years. Character is largely passed over today for credentials, but in the crunch it is all that counts. She deserves support from the right at all levels, and good advice, not wailing about what is not to be. As for NRO, I could never get into it, even when Buckley was alive. Too stiff.

Posted by: mytralman at August 31, 2008 11:15 AM (k+clE)

109 Fine and valid points to be true, but how relevant are they, and whatever happened to politics as the art of the possible?  It's late in the game for the NRO-types to be navelgazing.

A Balrog of Morgoth,

But they aren't Republican operatives, they are pundits and reporters. Talking about shit is what they do. It's not their job to get McCain elected or make his life easier.

And as I've said a couple of times, don't look at me to defend Brookhiser.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 11:15 AM (hlYel)

110

Outstanding comment from the edited thread:

Right side of the issues?  Let's see.  When the AP was dishonestly screwing with the facts and trying to bum rush America into a ruinous defeat in Iraq during the Jamil Hussein caper Rich Lowry wrote this opus called "When the Media is Right" and pulled the AP's fat out of the fire and sold out every American soldier in Iraq that was counting on the right leaning media to tell the truth....but he got himself a whole bunch of TV time.  When the TNR was portraying every single American soldier in Iraq as sadistic murderers what did we get from KLO and JPod... fevered defenses of the TNR.  When McCain finally wises up and picks an anti-corruption Vice Presidential candidate what do we get.  Hysterical attacks on the anti-corruption candidate.  When it appears that millions of women voters may be willing to give Palin a shot and screw the Democrats what do we get.  Sexist crap from the NRO about Palin.    The NRO was only on the right side of those issues if you happened to be in favor of screwing American soldiers over, retreat in Iraq, dishonesty in the media, corruption in government, losing elections and getting more members of the NRO face time on TV.  Me, I'm luke warm on those particular goals.  Your milage may vary.

Posted by: The Obvious at August 31, 2008 02:25 PM (1g+FW)

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 11:16 AM (xyyHG)

111 >Romney himself needs to get out and make a strong, unequivocal statement of support for Palin. If he has any interest in further electoral politics he needs to shut assholes like Richie Brookschiester up now. >>>“Governor Palin’s story is one that all Americans will find inspiring,” Romney said in a statement issued earlier today. >>>“She’s a Washington outsider with a commitment to the conservative principles that will make our nation stronger. I look forward to campaigning for Senator McCain, Governor Palin and Republicans all across the country,” Romney said. Maybe you can now tell us which Republican has campaigned harder for McCain in the last few months or raised more money for him. You don't have to wonder why a lot of Romney supporters will never support him

Posted by: JackStraw at August 31, 2008 11:17 AM (VBon8)

112 A week from now, you'll be back to complaining about Romney, Pawlenty or Ridge as not being pure enough. 

There will be some revelations in the Wooten-gate story and Palin's tenure as mayor of Wasilla (pop. 6,715), and McCain will have to dump her, err, suggest she withdraw.

Posted by: icus at August 31, 2008 11:18 AM (BN2Q9)

113 I should have mentioned that statement was made Friday while Palin supporters were busy orgasming on the internet.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 31, 2008 11:19 AM (VBon8)

114 1.) I've read Brookheiser's books on history and enjoyed them. I like him--but he's wrong. 2.) I think some of the criticism has a 'not-invented-here aspect to it. 3.) Some have criticized the pick as identity politics. This is not the excruciating race & gender bean-counting of liberals. Yes, we want the support of women. But we can never out-pander the Democrats. If we say we're for open borders, they're for open borders and foreign-language ballots. If we say we're for open borders, foreign-language ballots and a Cinco de Mayo Federal Holiday, they're for all that plus ceding Arizona back to Mexico, etc., etc. That is why at some point we must stand on principle and say we're going to try to attract all groups through broad-based American principles, not narrowly-tailored payoffs to tribal cheiftans. There is a huge difference between representation and inclusiveness versus hard quotas, set-asides, government-sposored discrimination and the corrosive identity politics which pit group against group in a competing tribe mentality to the detriment of our common citizenship. For example, it is good to have a qualified black Justice on the Supreme Court. How would you feel if there were no white people on the Court? Palin is qualified. She did her homework. She's got integrity--which is so important. You can always aquire knowledge about new subjects, but there is no place you can aquire character if you do not posess it. She's very competent. She has a normal American-vibe that people love. She is a princpled conservative. And it's way past time we put such a woman into leadership. But it is way beyond tokenism and the identity politics of the Left.

Posted by: Noel at August 31, 2008 11:21 AM (4gHqM)

115

I have been reading around the blogosphere for the past 2 days and I am a little amazed by what I see.  The left is just friggin' batshit.  It is truly disturbing that anyone would stoop to making up rumors about teenage girls as a political tactic.  May they get what they really deserve.

The right is proving to be disappointing for a different reason.  Why is it mandatory to form important opinions in a couple of minutes or less?  Why isn’t “I don’t know yet” the leading American opinion about most topics, including this one?

 

I was born and raised in Alaska and I am older than Palin.  I have voted for her and I will probably vote for her again.  I actually have facts, context, and perspective to know why.

 

I would be willing to answer some intelligent questions about Palin and Alaska for those with an open mind that would appreciate some Alaskan input, but I will not be joining any debates.

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 11:25 AM (E9BMW)

116 She has been picked for the slot of VP for fucks sake who but a politico gives a shit about her experience. She fires up a base that was going to have to bring a barf bag along to pull the lever for McCain and the likely second choice for VP.Yeah she will be a heartbeat  away  from being  POTUS  if McCain  wins. But if he loses Obama will be POTUS and her experience stacks up just fine when compared to his with the plus she is not a socialist.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at August 31, 2008 11:29 AM (K1I/w)

117 I would be willing to answer some intelligent questions about Palin and Alaska for those with an open mind that would appreciate some Alaskan input, but I will not be joining any debates.

Bra size?

Sorry, I'm a moron, I don't do intelligent questions. That's just how I roll.

Posted by: Trollhammer at August 31, 2008 11:31 AM (iXM3B)

118 I think the nature of our spat is manifold. This isn't just about Palin, and we aren't acting like dKos fruitcakes. I haven't seen lengthy diatribes consisting of 50% Anglo-Saxon scatology and 50% narrative fantasy about murdering your enemies. Part of this is exposing divisions in conservatism, like the so-called paleocon vs. neocon vs. crunchycon debate. Palin's presence has dredged up this stuff. Consider Brookhiser: But we have already seen the two tallest buildings in NYC go, and our first, second and twentieth priorities should be to crush the serpent with our heels. Now, there are some cons who think that our twentieth priority ought to be something else indeed. Some cons think the liberation of Iraq was ill-advised, some think it was inevitable. Palin pleases one set, displeases another. Also, some of the cons who roll their eyes at Palin have taken positions that make other cons quite, quite irate. I have to call out Frum on this, for his recent book on how Republicans should remake themselves... one of his ideas that he peddled on Medved's show was... a carbon tax. Now whether you agree or not, that is an idea that has so much liberal baggage that it's going to be hard for many conservatives to lift it. Combine some of these decidedly unconservative ideas with a tepid welcome for a very red Palin, and you're bound to find trouble. And as I've already written elsewhere, the folks saying that picking Palin is just a way to have a token woman on the ticket need to go back to remedial thinking. You could only argue that if she were a liberal Republican. A liberal selection would say McCain is only angling for maximum votes from the left, and he hasn't been sufficiently right-wing anyway. But a conservative pick is what conservatives should want, no? And if we have the added bonus of the pick being young, a governor, well-spoken, and even female... well, I just don't see the problem. I can see lots of problems with Romney or Pawlenty. There is a reason Romney lost the primaries, by large margins, even though he spent mountains of money. He looks conservative on paper, but his history is rather speckled with liberal compromises... so many and of such nature that his big problem was authenticity. Which is what Palin has in surplus. Pawlenty? Well, with him it was... I mean... I'm getting sleepy. Wake me when Obama wins. Finally, look how unhinged the Leftards have become over this. If you're making your enemies profoundly upset, you must be doing something right. Don't the NRO crew get it? We're cheating! RethugliKKKans are only allowed to run old rich white Bible-thumping repressed homosexual phony plutocrats for office! UNFAIR! That last point may be the best one. If the Left hates this so much, we're on the right track.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 31, 2008 11:33 AM (AZGON)

119

Can't we at least smack Derb with the cat o'nine for all the Ron Paul crap he wrote all year?

Well I don't mind his math stuff since I'm a math geek too, but I personally find number theory to be pretty boring. On the other hand, his choice of Ron Paul was enough to move him to my mental 'Not to be taken seriously' column. Sure I still read him, but just for entertainment value.

Oh and since I'm behind on this month's quota: shit, fuck, goddamn, cocksucker, motherfucker, cunt 

Posted by: Maetenloch at August 31, 2008 11:38 AM (Ab2VX)

120 Democrats go frothing batshit crazy when Republicans achieve historic first.

First black Senator - check.
First black Congressman - check
First black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - check
First woman Supreme Court Justice - check
First black National Security Advisor - check
First black Secretary of State - check

There are many, many others - this exposes Democrats for racism and misogyny, which causes them to lose their minds. "We have always been at war with Eastasia| And Republicans have always been racists!"

Posted by: Jim62sch at August 31, 2008 11:41 AM (ubHgw)

121 Would you be insulted if I admitted I believe McCain picked Palin in part because she is a woman? What if I think McCain's picking a woman was a political decision, that because Palin is a woman she appeals to a constituency that McCain does not? What if I like that picking Palin because she is a woman will help McCain get more votes? Would you still be insulted?

In that case fuck you. Assholes.

BTW Derbyshire isn't a Buchannanite. He's a Ronulan. You could look it up.

Posted by: fredras at August 31, 2008 11:43 AM (1OMSg)

122 I would be willing to answer some intelligent questions about Palin and Alaska for those with an open mind that would appreciate some Alaskan input, but I will not be joining any debates.

What do you think about Troopergate, jc?

Posted by: fredras at August 31, 2008 11:46 AM (1OMSg)

123 Say it isn't so!   You mean for all of these years Siskel & Ebert, et.al. may have been wrong?

...damn, and I'm running out of popcorn too.

Posted by: More ovaltine, please. at August 31, 2008 11:48 AM (zAvxs)

124 Sarah is the real deal, she is exactly what you see.  I've personally never seen anyone who could so easily define others simply by being themself.  The vitriol coming at her says everything about whomever is voicing it..and nothing about her.

In the coming  weeks the country is going to fall in love with her and by comparison "O" will seem rather bland.  He's not evil you know, just an empty suit who has begun to believe his own press.  Underestimate this girl at your own peril.

Posted by: vinnie at August 31, 2008 11:48 AM (Cq1gu)

125 I have a soft spot for Derb, but the spot has been shrinking. Especially when he posted this bit about being the necessary pessimist at the party. Derb's post While I agree with him on this point, this doesn't make much sense when he's spent months as an unapologetic Ronulan... was that mature pessimism? It was absurd wishful thinking or contrariness for its own sake. Or both.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 31, 2008 11:50 AM (AZGON)

126 Hamlet befuddled his enemies, too. He did it to stay alive.

Posted by: Squire of Dimness at August 31, 2008 11:55 AM (o4MaC)

127 Other than Brookhiser's comment (which I've already agreed to as being off the wall stupid) which NRO writer has been 'elitist'?

My reading has been cautious optimism on the part of most of them.
Posted by: DrewM. at August 31, 2008 03:22 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read what Frum had to say on Friday. Frum's article starts with:

The longer I think about it, the less well this selection sits with me. And I increasingly doubt that it will prove good politics. The Palin choice looks cynical. The wires are showing.

and ends with:

Here's I fear the worst harm that may be done by this selection. The McCain campaign's slogan is "country first." It's a good slogan, and it aptly describes John McCain, one of the most self-sacrificing, gallant, and honorable men ever to seek the presidency.

But question: If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?

For cryin' out loud -- Frum can't even acknowledge Palin is the Governor of Alaska. To Frum, she's still the Mayor of Mayberry. Read the whole thing and wretch. Frum has some major elitist erectile malfunctions going on.

Thankfully, NRO contributor Mark Steyn (as usual) gets it right:

Over in the Frumistan province of the NR caliphate, our pal David is not happy about the Palin pick. I am - for several reasons.

First, Governor Palin is not merely, as Jay describes her, "all-American", but hyper-American. What other country in the developed world produces beauty queens who hunt caribou and serve up a terrific moose stew? As an immigrant, I'm not saying I came to the United States purely to meet chicks like that, but it was certainly high on my list of priorities. And for the gun-totin' Miss Wasilla then to go on to become Governor while having five kids makes it an even more uniquely American story. Next to her resume, a guy who's done nothing but serve in the phony-baloney job of "community organizer" and write multiple autobiographies looks like just another creepily self-absorbed lifelong member of the full-time political class that infests every advanced democracy.

I haven't read anything else at NRO about the Palin pick, but this is enough for me to figure out that there is at least one backstabbing petulant snob employed writing there.

Posted by: Tinian at August 31, 2008 11:58 AM (1Mq7K)

128 jc: 

How do you think Palin will handle herself under pressure and in the debates? I assume she will do well because she went up against the old fogy establishment of her party and cut perks. But, how does she do at spontaneous answering of questions? How do you think she will do with a patronizing condescending asshole like Biden?

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 12:00 PM (PRn5M)

129 I know someone has probably mentioned this above, but the NRO crowd are in NYC and DC. That's pretty much it. Yes, some of them are elsewhere (like Steyn, but he's been laying low for months now), but most of them are stuck in those particular mindsets. Sure, I'm a New Yorker.... now.... but I grew up in the South and used to be a liberal in North Carolina. And I've got all sorts of people for relatives, from those on welfare living in trailer parks to rich SOBs who have their own planes. So I have a bit of perspective on some American sociology. People from/in NYC tend to be extremely provincial and have limited life experiences, so I cut them some slack for being small-minded. I'm not making a joke here - it's true. People in NYC get mentally lazy, thinking that because the whole world shows up here, they can figure it all out without getting off their asses. Sorry, bucko, it doesn't work that way. The food here is great, but the thinking is totally inside the box.

Posted by: meep at August 31, 2008 12:01 PM (7uTCa)

130 I've said it last night and I'll say it again. There's something fishy about Frum. In 12 months, he will have left the Republican party and declared his "independence." He may not go the way of David Brock and Snotty Scotty McClelland, but he will go.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 31, 2008 12:01 PM (AZGON)

131

What do you think about Troopergate, jc?

Modern day gotcha politics.  First, all commish's serve at the pleasure of the Gov.  She could have fired Monegan just because it was Tuesday, or she had pineapple for desert, etc. and it would have been totally within her rights/responsibilities as Gov.  Second, it tells me a lot that she kept being willing to give a kid-tasering, drunk driving trooper another chance.  If anything, she bent over backwards for the trooper.  If he'd of threatened to kill my dad he would still be missing.

 

I think Monegan was just embarrassed about being canned and probably wishes he hadn't said anything now.  Monegan had been chief of police in Anchorage.  OK guy, I rather liked him, but that doesn't make him irreplaceable.  He supports his staff.  Anchorage cops are amazingly pampered.  You should see their pay and retirement package.

One of the reasons I like Sarah is she has always been willing to fire bureaucrats.  She rolled a bunch of heads at Wasilla.  She sets standards and she expects people to meet them.  If they don't, she doesn't whine or expect taxpayers to continue to pay for inadequate government -- she just tries someone else.  Are all her hires wonderful or the best available person?  No.  Some of her choices are disappointing.  But given that she is a human, and therefore is limited to what she actually knows about each subject out of thousands, she does pretty good. Certainly better than some of her predecessors at the Gov's mansion.

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 12:05 PM (E9BMW)

132

How do you think Palin will handle herself under pressure and in the debates? I assume she will do well because she went up against the old fogy establishment of her party and cut perks. But, how does she do at spontaneous answering of questions? How do you think she will do with a patronizing condescending asshole like Biden?

 

Sarah has bigger testes than a lot of U.S. men.  I never worry about her under pressure.  Personally, I expect her to kick slo-joe’s ass in the debate, but we will see.  She has the force of her convictions and she is a real person.  She is good on her feet.

 

WYSIWYG.  Her husband is also enough of a man to be married to a woman like her.  I am actually rather surprised that America noticed them.  It does put the Demos in a funny position considering they are running stuffy lawyers and the Palins are real, down-to-earth, middle class folks who can prove it.

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 12:11 PM (E9BMW)

133 Derbyshire's politics are definitely not to be taken seriously. For one, he grew up British. That's got to warp the mind. But it's interesting to read him alongside the likes of Nordlinger, the most elite of the bunch (but seems to be a nice guy... it's just that most people in the world can't afford to go to Davos.)

Posted by: meep at August 31, 2008 12:13 PM (7uTCa)

134 Stopped the governor's motorcade.

Fired the mansion staff.

Sold the governor's jet on ebay.

I'm in.

Palin/Jindal '12

Posted by: Actual at August 31, 2008 12:24 PM (GZPpN)

135 jc, Did her husband, Todd, campaign for her? I seem to remember that's required in Presidential politics. Everyone's spouse also has to go out and press the flesh.

Posted by: fredras at August 31, 2008 12:27 PM (1OMSg)

136

I have to concur a little with meep at #132 above, non-New Yorkers may not realize or appreciate how provincial we are.  I'm okay with that, because I grew up on the Midwest and don't consider New York to be the center of the universe.  But my goodness!  The people around me, particularly the liberals scoffing at Red State America, some of these people don't ever leave Manhattan.  Ever.  The idea of visiting New Jersey to them is as pragmatically unthinkable as going to Mars.

They scoff at the outer boroughs, for crying out loud!  A Manhattanite looks down upon someone who lives in Brooklyn!

These people are clueless to their provincialism as they cling bitterly to their self-valued Manhattan cred.  It's all such nonsense.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 12:36 PM (1px5N)

137

"You can always aquire knowledge about new subjects, but there is no place you can aquire character if you do not posess it."

WOW, Noel

That's the most profound truism that I have ever read on this forum.

The same holds true for common sense.

Neither of these traits can be taught in our institutions of higher learning.

Thank you

Posted by: Snorkel at August 31, 2008 12:41 PM (E+7gr)

138 #139 Wow. I never thought the provincialism there was quite that... religiously dogmatic. No wonder Manhattan is an island made of granite. It would have to be to withstand the vibrations of the liberal echo chamber there.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 31, 2008 12:42 PM (AZGON)

139 #139, on top of that, many people don't realize that Manhattan is actually a very small place.  It's a relatively tiny island, and that's another reason why so many people are so easily duped by overpopulation hysteria.  There really are a lot of people crammed into Manhattan, partially because so many of them refuse to ever step outside of it.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 12:46 PM (1px5N)

140 Wait, no, I was addressing comment #142 to George Orwell, not back to myself.  Me dummby.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 12:47 PM (1px5N)

141 >>>“Governor Palin’s story is one that all Americans will find inspiring,” Romney said in a statement issued earlier today.

>>>“She’s a Washington outsider with a commitment to the conservative principles that will make our nation stronger. I look forward to campaigning for Senator McCain, Governor Palin and Republicans all across the country,” Romney said.

Maybe you can now tell us which Republican has campaigned harder for McCain in the last few months or raised more money for him.

You don't have to wonder why a lot of Romney supporters will never support him

Posted by: JackStraw at August 31, 2008 04:17 PM (VBon

I have been extremely impressed with Romney's behavior lately, Jack Straw.  He came out here to Vegas and was awesome.  I hadn't read that statement because so many of his supporters chose to freak out like Ponnuru and Brookheiser have.  Too bad so many Romney supporters behave themselves so badly...the whole "If McCain doesn't pick Romney I won't vote for him" thing is extremely lame.  Sure, Pawlenty's supporters are disappointed he wasn't chosen.  But it's the Romneyites who are by far the ugliest.

Sadly, Mitt may need to get on CNN to repeat his statement in prime time.

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 12:47 PM (xyyHG)

142

You can acquire character, but you have to really want it, I think, if you get to middle-age without already building it naturally.

If, say, you think you're a Messiah, or something, you're probably not seeing the character deficit in your own mirror.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 12:48 PM (1px5N)

143 Are there really that many Romney supporters refusing to vote for Maverick because he didn't choose Mitt?  Hell, Hugh Hewitt, a man more eagerly in the tank than even Olbermann is for Ohimself (and I say that with love for Hugh), is excited about Sarah.

Posted by: Kensington at August 31, 2008 12:51 PM (1px5N)

144 >>But it's the Romneyites who are by far the ugliest. I disagree. It's those ugly Romneyites who have been pouring millions into the McCain coffers over the last couple of months. McCain fans with their either lack of understanding of the facts or willful disregard for telling it can't even be bothered to stop attacking Romney with bogus information. If there had been no Huck and Romney had won McCain would be sitting on his ass an doing nothing to help Romney just as he did in 2000 when Bush beat him. You ought to take a hard look in the mirror before throwing around accusations.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 31, 2008 12:56 PM (VBon8)

145 I also grew up in the midwest and lived a couple of years in NYC. What surprised me is that you see so many of the same people because the place is so physically small. My coworkers told me they would never consider living anywhere else because NY has so much to offer, i.e., museums, the Met, etc. When I asked them the last time they had been to a museum, concert, they said they never had been. Oi!

New Yorkers have this strange habit of being extremely rude and ignoring you. After a predesignated period of time passes as you stand there like an idiot in front of them, they will finally look up and acknowledge you and be quite cordial. 

I also lived many years in SF and Berkley. They are also very insular.

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 12:57 PM (PRn5M)

146 jc, Did her husband, Todd, campaign for her? I seem to remember that's required in Presidential politics. Everyone's spouse also has to go out and press the flesh.

Can't say, I don't hang around that kind of thing much.  In Alaska, he does more for her by earning an honest living, getting dirty, cold and wet without being a wimp, having rural cred (Wasilla is on the road system and is almost a suburb of Anchorge, OTOH Bristol Bay is truly rural) and raising decent kids than anything else he could do.

Is anyone interested in the bridge(s), earmarks, the permanent fund or the gas line?

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 01:13 PM (E9BMW)

147 Is anyone interested in the bridge(s), earmarks, the permanent fund or the gas line?

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 06:13 PM (E9BMW)


Yep

Posted by: Sean at August 31, 2008 01:16 PM (3LifV)

148 I just recently heard about the new natural gas line construction, jc. Sounds like a good idea. Was there a big fight over it? Did the Governor get a good deal on it?

Posted by: fredras at August 31, 2008 01:17 PM (1OMSg)

149 As for New Yorkers being provincial, I live in Nothern NJ, less than ten miles from the Empire State Building as the crow flies, and on the few occasions I can get my NYC friends to come visit me, they always remark as to how my neighborhood is "so middle america" and are shocked that I serve them good wine and better beer.

Posted by: Sean at August 31, 2008 01:20 PM (3LifV)

150 Fox News mentioned that Romney is at a campaign rally with McCain and Palin today.

Posted by: lmg at August 31, 2008 01:25 PM (A/vgC)

151 Speaking of Alaskan oil and gas, Gustav is about to impact 25% of our domestic oil production. It would be nice to have an additional source we could draw on.

Posted by: lmg at August 31, 2008 01:29 PM (A/vgC)

152

Romney's apparently on stage with McCain and Palin right now kicking ass and taking names.  He did the same here in Vegas last week.  I've said for a while that he knew/didn't want veep anyway and that it made me like him more for being willing to campaign so effectively for McCain.

It's the folks like Ponnuru and Brookheiser I'm bashing JackStraw, not you or the rank and file folks who love Romney and love Palin.

Romney will be much happier in the cabinet, and the spot is there for him if he wants it.  VP would frankly have been a comedown for a man of his talents...I never thought he wanted that job, to be honest.

Hucksterabee is there too!  Huckabee and Romney are the perfect team to handle any hurricane recovery project the RNC puts together over the next couple of days.  I think they will be capable of working together and therefore bringing more unity to the convention.

OK, call me Pollyanna.

Posted by: funky chicken at August 31, 2008 01:29 PM (xyyHG)

153 http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/

Beldar has written many excellent articles on Palin and her stance on various issues. He also addresses her MSM and pundit critics. 

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 01:50 PM (PRn5M)

154

the bridge(s), earmarks, the permanent fund or the gas line?

 

The Bridges –  There are two that matter – the Gravina Island bridge near Ketchikan and the Knik Arm Bridge between Anchorage and Mat-Su (where Wasilla is.)

 

Ketchikan is in southeast Alaska in the rain forest.  People there used to make their living logging and fishing until the greenies took over Wash DC.  Now, tourism is their big deal.  Alaskans have been forced to transition from being producers to the service industries in a lot of areas because we can’t overcome greenie politics in DC.  Greenie politics in AK are definitely way down in the minority because it is much tougher to BS people who actually live here.

 

Anyway, Ketchikan is in the fjords, with just about no level ground.  Mountains go straight down into the sea.  The airport is on Gravina Island and is served only by ferry.  A bridge would be nice, but it is a pretty small town.  The bridge kept getting more and more unreasonable because of decisions made about cruise ships meant it had to be long and high.  It could of been a lot cheaper, but [surprise!] federal bureaucrats kept adding things that raised the cost.


Why should the U.S. taxpayer have to pay for the Gravina Island Bridge?  Good question.  Why did we build the ‘Big Dig’ for Boston, levees for people to live below sea level in N.O., etc., etc., etc.?  Byrd had the main pork seat in the senate before Stevens.  I am sure Byrd’s effects on WV are a little odd, too. Big gov’t does strange things.

 

The Knik Arm bridge was also called the BTN, but that is pretty much just crap.  There is definitely the traffic volume and development available to make it a viable project.  Depending on how we fare with the greenies, we will probably build that one ourselves.

 

BTW, if you trace Alaska on your globe and lay the tracing over the lower 48, Ketchikan will be near Georgia and Knik Arm will be near Kansas City.  Prudhoe Bay will be near the Canadian Border and Bristol Bay will be in the Rockies.  The Aleutian Chain will extend into the Pacific near San Diego.  Sarah runs a big place.

 

Anyway, ask yourself- is there more than one federally funded bridge between Georgia and Missouri?  Are all of them loaded with cars all the time?  There is more here than meets the eye about the bridges.

 

Earmarks -- Alaskans always hated them.  They were not actually additional highway money for Alaska.  When the earmarks went in, other project funding got cut.  The earmarks just kept us for making our own decisions about where highway money should be spent.  Stevens and Young were actually too dense to catch on to what they were doing to us, instead of for us.  Pretty sad.


Permanent fund and gas line in the next post.

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 01:51 PM (E9BMW)

155 Huckabee and Romney are the perfect team to handle any hurricane recovery project...

I would advise Romney to watch his back around Huckabee.  Although I thought much of the criticism of Huckabee was unfair, I am sick of his cheap attacks on Romney which I believe are based solely on his Mormonism.

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 01:52 PM (PRn5M)

156 funky chicken you're absolutely right.  Romney has been a great trooper for Mccain, and Romney is right that Mccain and Palin are excellent choices.  Romney's years of experience and his very tough political battles have given him an eye for who has what it takes, and he's clearly thrilled with Palin and Mccain because he knows they are awesome choices.

It's just that a few of his supporters are jumping to conclusions with much less to rely on, and I think in the wrong direction with a shitty attitude.  Romney supporters had to fight hard for him in the fact of many legit and BS attacks, so I think they are just wound up and aggressive about this battle that they think Romney lost, but I think he wasn't really a serious candidate for outside the eyes of the media.

I hope to see Romney make these statements prominently (not doubting him... he's right about Palin... but I haven't seen him on the news for a few days).  It's a challenge these days to get airtime, but I'm sure he'll meet that challenge.

Posted by: Shill at August 31, 2008 01:53 PM (8jYMc)

157 Why should the U.S. taxpayer have to pay for the Gravina Island Bridge?

There is the airport that serves about 200k passengers a year plus cargo. It would undoubtedly grow if there was better access it.  The town of 50 people on the island that they like to belittle would also grow.

In Oct 2006 while campaigning, Palin said she supported it and improving the infrastructure of Alaska. After she was elected and as the costs got out of control, she nixed the project sometime in July 2006. I would remind people that Obamama voted for the 2005 Transportation Bill that funded this bridge. So, when the leftards yell, Pork! Just remind them who ordered the sandwich.

Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 01:58 PM (PRn5M)

158 The people at the NRO make my Taco POP!


Posted by: Shawn Johnson at August 31, 2008 09:57 AM (gBnKJ)


Can't. Stop. Laughing.

Posted by: Purple Fury at August 31, 2008 02:05 PM (Fu0ST)

159

Leftard Lie:  Palin implemented a windfall tax on petroleum companies like the one Obama proposes.

What is falsely label as a windfall tax, is actually a severance tax. It is not a general corporate income tax, but a one-time tax that most states impose on the extraction of non-renewable resources that otherwise would escape taxation.

The prior Alaska severance tax was negotiated in secret between the big three oil companies and the former corrupt legislators and the discredited former governor. Palin renegotiated the severance tax with complete transparency and with open public meetings. This resulted in an increase from a base rate of 22.5% to 25%.

Obviously, the oil companies were not happy about this and the fact that she is promoting an open-bidding process for a new natural gas pipeline.

Anyway, do not be misled by this leftard lie. For more in depth discussion of this issue see:  http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2008/08/dont-be-misled.html

jc:  I'm not trying to step on your toes -- just trying to add more info. Feel free to correct me or disagree, or add additional information, etc.


Posted by: grc at August 31, 2008 02:07 PM (PRn5M)

160

Permanent Fund --  The PF went into existence when Sarah was just a young girl.  In 1968, Alaska got $900 million for the first North Slope oil leases.  The legislature blew the whole amount like drunken sailors.  Alaskans got really pissed.  So, the PF was enacted.  Otherwise we would have been building stupid monuments to politician egos everywhere.  We were just not going to put up with it.  The PF was a bipartisan thing and anybody who says it was D, R, or L is either ignorant or lying.


Every year, money that comes into the State goes to both the general fund and the PF.  Historically, when excess money comes in the legislature has added that to the PF, too.


Anyway, Alaska is a pretty libertarian place.  (So much so that it makes me laugh when people say anything about Sarah and creationism, etc.  We are not in the bible belt, and the Scopes Monkey Trial isn’t going to happen around here anytime soon.  In context, what the left says is just incredibly stupid.)  Anyway, a Libertarian legislator named Dick Randolph made the case that the permanent fund is really the people’s --- not the government’s --- money.  So, we ended up with a dividend.  The money goes into the PF.  The first part of the earnings goes towards inflation proofing the fund.  Less than ½ of each year’s earnings are available for the PFD.


I always thought the PFD was a good idea.  And I am glad it has prevented the worst of wasteful projects.  (Imagine, if you can, an international airport for an outlying native village with 80 full time residents and a sewage lagoon.)  OTOH, now the PFD is weird.  It should have helped us develop sophistication in all of our people.  But, I bet it has become an anchor in many ways.  If we have Alaska’s Hurricane Katrina, I will be surprised if we can actually use our savings wisely because of the number of people who will defend their PFD instead of doing the right thing.


This year, Sarah has proposed adding an energy rebate to the PFD.  Not exactly what one would expect from a ‘conservative.’  I have not formed an opinion on that one yet.


So, you will hear about Sarah paying the people. And you will hear about Sarah’s great PF.  Some of it is true.  Some of it is BS.

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 02:19 PM (E9BMW)

161 In some ways, all of this inside baseball shit from various critics of Palin on the right reminds me of their criticism of the appearance of Jenna and Barbara Bush at the 2004 convention.  In the echo chamber of the pundit-o-sphere, we heard over and over what a disaster it was, what a calamity it was, how it would make Bush look unserious, blah blah fucking blah.  Out in flyover country, people thought it was cute, endearing, and that it humanized Bush. The pundit-o-sphere, as it often is - even on the conserative side, was 180 degrees from the majority of Americans.

While there have been a few reasonable critiques, and some worthy noting of the potential pitfalls of the Palin pick (wow, lotta p's in a row there, huh?), a lot of it is just a bunch of garbage, motivated by people who want to have their own unique angle on it (to show how 'smart' they are), are pissed off that their guy wasn't the pick, are conservative blue bloods who are as elitist as any Barack Obama or John Kerry, or are just the type that keeps the ball on the ground and plays prevent defense when they are behind in the fourth quarter.

I'm hardly a McCain fan at all, but this was a ballsy pick with tremendous upside, and if a basher like me can give McCain credit, so should the others.

Posted by: thirteen28 at August 31, 2008 02:25 PM (MsWP4)

162 "There are plenty of good pieces posted by NRO contributors, but many of them are inside-the-beltway elitists."

That's one name you could use.

But "dhimmis" is pithier.

Posted by: someone at August 31, 2008 02:36 PM (2z2WN)

163 Mark Steyn came out of hiatus to celebrate the Palin nomination.  I don't need anything more than that.

Posted by: Kurt at August 31, 2008 02:48 PM (83kzE)

164

Looks like moose burgers are back on the menu boys!

posted somewhere else, but i forget.

Posted by: biscuiteater at August 31, 2008 03:02 PM (2JF/+)

165

The Gasline -- 

First, Alaskans have been trying to get a gas line built for decades.  It has been a big uphill climb.  Why?  Alaska is where the U.S. goes to assuage its guilt.  The SE can have the ‘Trail of Tears.’  Do anything to make it right?  Nope, but be sure to vote for native land claims in AK.  Clean up Boston Harbor or Chesapeake Bay?  Nope, but vote for more federal regulation in Alaska.  Tear down square miles of run down garbage in the S. Bronx, N. Philly or Baltimore?  Nope, set aside more wilderness where people used to make their living fishing, logging, and mining in Alaska.  Do anything about the way Indian reservations run in the 48 states?  Nope, override the AK constitution that requires all people to share the resources and institute federally mandated racism instead.  Some of these examples are off the point, but hopefully it conveys what Alaskans have had to overcome to get the gas line up for serious discussion.

(If you want to know some more, start with 2 big pieces of 1970’s legislation [ANILCA and ANCSA] that underlie everything – including ANWR.  Once again look out for lies starting with Jimmy Carter and the greenie left, there is a lot to know here.)

Second, one of the biggest deals about the gasline is it is really important to getting more oil out of Prudhoe Bay and nearby fields.  The oil pipeline is now running less than ½ full.  The cost of production on the slope is really high, so marginal fields won’t stay in production without developing the gas.

Third, Alaskans are pretty parochial.  We care about local hire rules.  We had to be convinced that an all-Alaska line to a liquefied (LNG) system would not be the best choice.  Sarah actually beat Murkowski because of the LNG question more than anything.  Alaskans were just not ready to believe that a Canadian line is the best deal for us. (Route goes to the big distribution center near Chicago.)

AFAIK, Murkowski has never been corrupt – blowhard yes, crook, no.  He did not have a very good political ear and was just plain dumb about the Gov’s jet, and nepotism.  Murkowski was a banker and is pretty astute.  His administration had some sharp people in it as well.  He had negotiated a gas line deal where the State got an equity position in a partly Canadian line. If Alaska had the sophistication to follow through, it probably was the best deal Alaska would have ever gotten.  Unfortunately, Murkowski expected too much out of his people.  We simply are not sophisticated enough to be in business with anybody.  As a body politic, I would guess we have the overall sophistication of a 10 year old.  Can you imagine how childish we would have behaved when the first cost overruns came up?  So, Sarah was probably right to move us away from things we cannot handle.

Fourth, the deal.  Sarah may have been sharp, or she may have been suckered.  Time will tell.  Conoco/BP formed a company (Denali) and they are working on an open season proposal right now.  Sarah pushed a deal where TransCanada will get $500 million in Alaska’s money, and if they screw it up, they have a chance to get paid for their screw up.  (See http://www.dog.dnr.state.ak.us/agia/)  Meanwhile, Denali does not ask for a dime.
Now, Sarah and Todd know a lot more about BP than I do, so I am still keeping an open mind.  Maybe she is right not to trust them.  Second, TransCanada may have a deal good enough that they would never deliberately screw up the open season, take the damages as a windfall and then run.  But it sure seems strange to leave open that possible incentive.
Fifth, there were probably 50 different ways to make up a gasline deal.  None of them was going to be perfect.  We needed to take one of them sooner or later.  Sarah was elected and paid to decide.  She did.  More power to her, and I hope she was right.

Posted by: jc at August 31, 2008 03:10 PM (E9BMW)

166

Reagan's Eleventh Commandment?

Laugh Out Loud.

I guess that rule doesn't extend to the critics at NRO who are all over Palin.

Here's another reason why those dinks at NRO have to knock her; they hitched their opinion onto the wrong VP choice, and and now they're stuck complaining about the actual choice in order to be somewhat consistent.  They're more worried about their own reputations than the 11th Commandment, and apparently they lack the literary skills to come up with a rational middle ground.

Posted by: Barbelle at August 31, 2008 03:19 PM (qF8q3)

167 The speed and ferocity of the dems' attack on Palin tells me she is a great pick. Ditto for the excitement from the base. Good times, good times....

Posted by: nikkolai at August 31, 2008 03:26 PM (G8d+5)

168 Thanks jc. Interesting stuff. I'm glad to hear Palin will make a decision and then go make it work.

One of the Obama characteristics that makes me think he's not ready (may be never ready) is the way he'll delay making a decision. Like when he needs to throw someone under the bus. Everyone watching knew he was going to throw his pastor under the bus weeks before he finally did it. I think he's going to throw Ayers under the bus, why doesn't he just do it and get it over with.

Ayers under the bus. I just like the sound of that.

Posted by: fredras at August 31, 2008 03:57 PM (1OMSg)

169

We're electing a President and a Vice President, not hiring the CEO and COO of USA, inc. We need leaders not managers (and no, they're not the same thing).

McCain and Palin are leaders, Obama and Biden are not.

Posted by: joh at August 31, 2008 04:29 PM (1DPb/)

170

I haven't read all of the comments here, but enough to get the idea.  The people at NRO are columnists who earn a living analyzing politics.  I don't, and neither do the people posting these attacks on NRO.  That doesn't mean we disagree politically, but someone in the political business has to be more wary of praising a political neophyte like Sarah Palin. 

I love Sarah.  I think she'll be one of the most impressive politicians we've seen since Reagan during the next few months, but she is untried on a national stage, and it's reasonable for people who have public reputations on the line to scale back their ebullience until she proves what most of us suspect she will prove.  The journalists at NRO have much more to lose if they gush over her and she does not pan out, and I don't think it's fair to attack NRO for not unleashing praise to the same extent as the anonymous posters here who can easily retreat into their private lives if she implodes (even though I very definitely do not think she will). 

 

Posted by: A Reasonable Man at August 31, 2008 04:37 PM (ouh4c)

171

I was thrilled with the Palin pick.  She was my first choice, and I clicked all over the intarweb to see what my fellow conservatives thought about it.  My reaction to NRO's reaction morphed over a couple of days from "what the hell?" to a grumpy "they better get with the fucking program!"

The Corner was novel and fun when it first came out, but now the only time I ever read it is when someone else links to something there (usually something from Goldberg) and Brookhiser and Derbyshire are both limp pricks.  However, I greatly enjoy The Campaign Spot and check that for updates every couple of days or so.

Finally, while I realize my own experience is anecdotal, McCain's selection of Palin motivated me to donate to his campaign.  I was resigned to vote for McCain regardless, but with a choice of Pawlenty or Romney I would still be resigned.  I doubt I'd have coughed up the dough.

Plus she's hot.  Everyone needs to stop acting like it's a bad thing that she has tits.  Just saying.

-TS

Posted by: teransolo at August 31, 2008 04:55 PM (biGgj)

172

Jebus!!  Reading some of the comments here, I have to keep checking the top of the page to make sure I didn't wander over to Kos or DU by mistake.

The Corner is "swill"?  Goldberg isn't half as clever as he thinks he is?  Now THERE's a pair of intellectual arguments!

Goldberg an elitist?  LOL!! Ever meet him at an NRO event?  He'll amiably down beers and shoot the shit with anyone as interested in national politics as he is.

 A collection of effete snobs? I'm just another internet shlub, but when I've emailed a half dozen Cornerites with comments or criticisms, a number of them have written me back, several more than once.   Three/four times they've actually published what I sent in, sometimes to disagree but never to mock.   

Don't like Derb's crankish attitude or his math thing?  Don't read him!!  How many times do we give the fucktards that same advice?

C'mon, morons:  picking Palin was a very complex political decision. You really think it was a no-brainer, given the "experience" issue?  How about it being a high-risk decision, but emotionally appealing?  How about it being a freakin doubling down, by a GOP candidate who is as exciting to the base as a bag of Portland cement?

It's no wonder the pick is being examined from a whole bunch of perspectives, some of them highly critical.  It's goddamn important.

And whatever you think of Cornerites, they want us to win.  Treating them as The Enemy for having the temerity to disagree with you is Moonbattery!

 I detect some really severe social and intellectual inferiority complexes at work here.

Not pretty.

(Unlike Palin, who is smokin', and a great-but-risky choice.)

Posted by: fulldroolcup at August 31, 2008 05:27 PM (fH1BE)

173 Did someone claim that she doesn't walk on water.  I call BS!

Posted by: Joints at August 31, 2008 05:45 PM (1pFaS)

174 I preferred Mitt to McCain, but I think Palin is a awesome Veep pick - the excitement among the base a leaners is palpable. I guess that's what many find disturbing about NRO - their estrangement from the base.

And I shouldn't imply the whole of NRO - pretty much just that  fucktard Brookhiser. The whole "first, second and twentieth priorities should be" insult to a mother whose son is shipping off to Iraq in seven weeks is very shitty.

Brookhiser, when your rhetoric sounds like Andy Sullivan, perhaps you should be looking for a new base.

Posted by: barbula at August 31, 2008 06:31 PM (UKP1H)

175 Ponnuru has always thought he was the smartest person in the room. I ignore his blog postings and his articles in NR. He is the absolute definition of a smarmy elitist. I thoroughly enjoy watching Andy McCarthy smack him down !

Posted by: Will at August 31, 2008 06:42 PM (3GYtN)

176

Ponnuru has always thought he was the smartest person in the room. 

  An unsupported assertion.

I ignore his blog postings and his articles in NR.

 Many people don't, precisely because he's one brilliant MoFo.

He is the absolute definition of a smarmy elitist.

Another unsupported assertion.  I detect a pattern, where you just post declaratory shit and pretend you've made an intellectual case.

 I thoroughly enjoy watching Andy McCarthy smack him down !

So...you DON'T read Ramesh, but you DO read McCarthy smacking him down....  And you automatically go with McCarthy!  

Yep, you are a real truth-seeker !

Your ass is intellectual GENIUS, sir!!! 

 

Posted by: fulldroolcup at August 31, 2008 07:48 PM (fH1BE)

177 Those who are naysayers at NRO are just pissed off because she was lyin' so low in the weeds and they bet "she's gonna ambush me" she had them down down down on their knees, oooh, barracuda.

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