August 31, 2007

No More Battlestar on iTunes?
— Gabriel Malor

NBC-Universal and Apple were unable to come to an agreement about the pricing of TV shows on iTunes. iTunes will stop selling new shows from NBC-Universal starting in September.

NBC wanted "more than double the wholesale price” for new TV episodes. Apple was unwilling to agree to that since it would bring the price to iTunes consumers of downloading an episode to $4.99.

Also, Apple's statement claims:

Since NBC would withdraw their shows in the middle of the television season, Apple has decided to not offer NBC TV shows for the upcoming television season beginning in September.

This seems more like Apple trying to punish NBC than anything else. Why not sell half a season before the contract is up?

Why is this important? Because the best show on television will no longer be available on iTunes. Frak!

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 02:32 PM | Comments (117)
Post contains 148 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Ummm...you do realize that this show, as well as any other show on network or cable, is available (for free!) on bittorrent?  Who gives a flying frak if iTunes has it or not?

Posted by: EC at August 31, 2007 02:34 PM (j2Tjh)

2  As a rule, EC, I don't steal.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 02:39 PM (1Ug6U)

3

NBC's Heroes is available online for free at NBC's website. Which is cool of them, I must say.


Also, FOX shows are were available on myspace TV on Demand.


 


Posted by: Bart at August 31, 2007 02:42 PM (pSH8t)

4 Oh my lord...

Is that against International Law or something?

Posted by: EC at August 31, 2007 02:45 PM (j2Tjh)

5 How is it stealing? You could set your DVR to record the show automatically. How is it different from getting the shows online? You are just using a different piece of software to get access to the very same content. And most DVRs strip out commercials automatically now, so you get the exact same content whether you watch it on your own DVR, or you download someone else's DVR recording.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 02:46 PM (3vVOD)

6 I'm sure you're not actually suggesting that it's not stealing. Unless you're begging for a post on copyright law, let's just let it lie.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 02:51 PM (1Ug6U)

7

SONOFA#*%&#$!!!!!  This is how I've watched all the episodes of BSG to date!  My world is turned upside.  I hate them all.  Bastards.


*sigh*...


Posted by: John at August 31, 2007 02:55 PM (7itTb)

8

It is stealing. 


Some young people I know well did not accept my argument that downloading copywrited material from the Net at no cost was stealing.  After much debate, their arguement boiled down to this: "It can't be stealing, it's too easy, stealing is hard".


It is stealing.


Posted by: eman at August 31, 2007 02:57 PM (F/DIG)

9 I admire your stance on theft, Gabe. When I say I pay for music people look at me like an alien.

Posted by: captkidney at August 31, 2007 03:01 PM (ROA4D)

10 eman and Gabriel, again, how is getting a copy of the same show you would have your DVR download for you for FREE from a different software source, in this case a bit torrent server, stealing? It is "fair use".

There is a difference between downloading movies, which you have no other way of seeing for free, and downloading shows, which you can watch for free as long as you have a recording device (VCR or DVR).

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:04 PM (3vVOD)

11 There should be a comma after "FREE" in the post above for better readability.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:05 PM (3vVOD)

12 It should also be "DVR record" not "DVR download".

I am a retard.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:07 PM (3vVOD)

13 magnetism87,

When a company produces a show they sell the right to air that show to one or more entities (in this case Sci-Fi*and iTunes). If you and a lot of other people are watching it through a pirated, non-licensed distribution method, you are lowering the number of people who will watch it the legal way. When the audience goes down, the rate they can charge advertisers goes down and then they won't pay the production company to make the show.

There's no free lunch or tv.



Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:09 PM (hlYel)

14 Drew, when your DVR records the show and you watch it at a later time, the Nielsen ratings do not reflect that you watched the show. By your argument, DVRs should be illegal.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:12 PM (3vVOD)

15 Best show on TV?
Lay off  the chronic, duuuuude.


Posted by: Sgt. York at August 31, 2007 03:13 PM (xe2+h)

16 magnetism87,

How old are you? I ask this not to dismiss you because you are young (if the 87 is the year you were born) but because it reflects the generational difference on this issue and the problem it presents content creators and distributors.

As for you argument, I am not arguing that at all.

DVRs do present a problem for distributors but you are still watching and recording it from someone who was legally allowed (through a grant of rights from the original creator and rights holder) to air something.  Bittorent has not been granted that right. You are making a technological argument, I am making a legal one.

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:16 PM (hlYel)

17 Real pirates use cutlasses and rapiers and flintlocks.  What is this pussy bittorrent you speak of?

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 03:17 PM (jbiW7)

18

magnetism87,


You have a point.  What you describe does not sound so much like stealing.  But, maybe a broadcast show is free only when it is broadcast?  I think the Supremes ruled back in the Eighties that it was not a violation of copywrite law to record anything sent into your home by air or cable.   If what you describe is like bootlegging Gilligan's Island off a local affilliate, then it's ok with me.


Posted by: eman at August 31, 2007 03:17 PM (F/DIG)

19 Nielsen has a problem with people recording shows on DVR.  They can't accurately calculate the number of people who actually watch the show once they've recorded it.  A recording doesn't necessarily mean a viewing, after all a person could record an entire week's worth of shows but only have enough time to watch one or two.


Posted by: EC at August 31, 2007 03:18 PM (j2Tjh)

20 Sgt. York is obviously a cylon.

Posted by: MamaAJ at August 31, 2007 03:18 PM (X6Zdh)

21 Drew, I am 26. And the technological argument is very old. It dates to the days of the first cassette recorders, when you could record songs of the radio. So I am not sure that I buy this "generational gap".

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:19 PM (3vVOD)

22 It dates to the days of the first cassette recorders, when you could record songs of the radio.

Yes, there was always a fair usage exemption. You could make a copy for yourself to use in a non-commercial way. Now, if you made 10,000 copies and started selling them, you would run afoul of copyright provisions.



Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:24 PM (hlYel)

23 Remeber 8-track casettes?

Posted by: bartwing plover at August 31, 2007 03:25 PM (pSH8t)

24 certainly, but no one sells anything using bittorent

Posted by: ultimaflare99 at August 31, 2007 03:25 PM (tNTd5)

25 Drew, key word there is "selling". Bit torrent downloads are not sold.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:26 PM (3vVOD)

26 ipodnova.tv, my friend.  Search on the show of your choice.  I was able to get the first two seasons of BSG in within a matter of about 6 weeks.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 03:28 PM (IirzJ)

27 Yes, it is stealing.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 03:29 PM (IirzJ)

28 I liked 8-tracks. If you were listening to one and were suddenly attacked by a raging rabid Scandi, you could rip the tape out of the player and kill the stinking bastard and then just pop the tape back in and resume listening. 

Posted by: eman at August 31, 2007 03:29 PM (F/DIG)

29 Recording songs off the radio is not the same as downloading a widely redistributed bootlegged copy.  Its one thing if you're friend transfers his beta copy of Willow onto vhs and lets you borrow it - there's always been an allowance for a sneakerpimp network.  Bittorrent doesn't even come close to fair usage unless its a preview-to-purchase.  So unless you intend to buy everything you've got saved on that 180GB external, like, tomorrow, you're still stealing.

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 03:33 PM (jbiW7)

30 Excellent argument you have there, RW. Way to back it up.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:33 PM (3vVOD)

31 Drew, key word there is "selling". Bit torrent downloads are not sold.

Two things...they sell ads on that site. They are using the illegal downloads for the commercial purpose of generating traffic and ad revenue.

Second... Did you ever read the fine print at the end of a show. It says something like "All rights reserved".You may not like it but one of those rights is to decide who distributes their product online. In this case they have reached an exclusive agreement with iTunes. When bittorent comes in and streams them from free they are hurting the rights holder. How? Some percentage of people who are watching this for free would have paid their online distributor (and eventually them) if bittorent wasn't pirating them.

I don't understand what's so complicated about this.

Gabriel...hit them with the copyright post.

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:33 PM (hlYel)

32 NBC is in bad enough shape as it is.  They will buckle to the iTunes pricing scheme.  They may not be getting as much money as they might want, but 2 dollars per download is better than no dollars for no downloads.

OFF TOPIC: As for the Gabe bashing.... I'm all for it on his "lessons" threads if it is deserved (which it really wasn't on the Command Responsibility...aside from pointing out the obvious), but to bring it up here just shows that you have the maturity of a 12 year old.

OFF TOPIC EVEN MORE:  I like pie. 

That is all.

Posted by: former republican at August 31, 2007 03:33 PM (I+C25)

33 not that ryan, what if you have 100 friends? and you let them all borrow the tape? still stealing? where do you draw the line?

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:36 PM (3vVOD)

34 What kind of pie?

Posted by: eman at August 31, 2007 03:38 PM (F/DIG)

35 If you actually knew those 100 friends, it would still be considered unlicensed public broadcasting - which is stealing.

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 03:38 PM (jbiW7)

36 Gabriel Malor,

Is it a copyright violation to watch the show stream from somebody else's website that may not be under the same legal regime (e.g., overseas) if you don't affix the copyrighted material to some medium? Has there been a test case on that question?

Would this be equivalent to going over to somebody's house to watch a movie for free that they illegally copied?

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 03:39 PM (EkG0f)

37 Okay then.

First, copyright infringement occurs whether or not something is sold for value. Obviously. If I write a book which I sell for $5 and you copy it and give it away for free, you are infringing my copyright.

Second, "fair use" is by statute only limited use for criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. That's why you don't see Ace or any other major bloggers just copying whole articles out of the Washington Post. Fair use is a limited exception to copyright. It doesn't let you steal whole TV shows.

At best, in the television context, it would allow you to take just a few minutes worth of the show--so long as your use is accompanied by criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. Your own private enjoyment is not a "fair use."

Third, anything the Supreme Court ruled on in the 1980s probably got destroyed by Congress in the 1990s and certainly did in 2000 with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 03:39 PM (1Ug6U)

38 NBC-Universal have actually made money thanks to torrents. Why? Well, if it wasn't for torrents, i'd never even would have seen Battlestar Galactica, since it isn't aired over here. I watched, loved it, bought the DVDs. And believe me, i'm not the only one. How else would you explain that a tv show that isn't even aired in this country gets it's dvds (1st and 2nd season so far) translated and released? I've got no doubt that demand by the thousands of people that have downloaded the episodes and watched it on their PC's played a big part.


Posted by: madne0 at August 31, 2007 03:39 PM (wuxU/)

39 eman and Gabriel, again, how is getting a copy of the same show you
would have your DVR download for you for FREE from a different software
source, in this case a bit torrent server, stealing? It is "fair use".

For one, the bittorrent downloads contain no commercials, which - as we know - give the incomes necessary to fund shows like BSG.  When ratings drop (and, baby, BSG's have dropped), sales rates for advertising drops and shows that don't make money get cancelled (unless BSG's ratings improve, quickly, it's soon to be gone).  Two, yes, there are ratings available for same day DVR (tvnewser posts them almost daily for the cable network news shows), they're just wholly unreliable.  Lastly, there is nothing wrong with recording a show on a DVR or VCR and watching whenever.  It's when you SHARE the show that copyright infringement comes in to play.  You can watch any show on your computer any time you wish, but when you upload it & share it to the masses, it's breaking the law.  In the example you cited, the person downloading the episode is getting it from a source that did not get the written permission to share/resell the property of NBC, which is breaking the law.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 03:42 PM (IirzJ)

40 I hate to tell you this, but bittorent isn't simply a site, it's a
technology, there are plenty of trackers which don't have ads, and you
can simply bypass the site itself.
And on the overseas question, this had been tried with pirate's bay several times. And like lot of the people on this site have said Gabriel, there is no international law. There is nothing the supreme court can do shut them down.

Posted by: ultimaflare99 at August 31, 2007 03:42 PM (tNTd5)

41 Gabriel,

Thanks for correcting my 'fair use' comment. It was sloppy and I knew it as soon as I hit post. There was some exception that allowed you to make tape of something you heard on the radio or of an album you bought (google it kids) for personal use. Wasn't there?

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:42 PM (hlYel)

42

Appe pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream -- so simple, yet there's nothing better.


The hard part is finding a great apple pie.


Posted by: bartwing plover at August 31, 2007 03:44 PM (pSH8t)

43 My question was not about overseas vs. domestic.

My question was about whether I had to actually copy the material instead of just watching a streaming version that doesn't affix to a medium.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 03:46 PM (EkG0f)

44 bittorent isn't simply a site, it's a
technology




And so was Napster. How'd that work out? It's illegal. It's been held
to be such in court. Rationalize all you want, you are still stealing
intellectual property when you watch content from a non-licensed
provider.

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:46 PM (hlYel)

45 Two things...they sell ads on that site. They are using the illegal
downloads for the commercial purpose of generating traffic and ad
revenue.

Drew, you can get torrents from Usenet servers, P2P networks and other sources that do not have any kind of commercial purposes or ad revenue.

Second... Did you ever read the fine print at the end
of a show. It says something like "All rights reserved".You may not
like it but one of those rights is to decide who distributes their
product online. In this case they have reached an exclusive agreement
with iTunes. When bittorent comes in and streams them from free they
are hurting the rights holder. How? Some percentage of people who are
watching this for free would have paid their online distributor (and
eventually them) if bittorent wasn't pirating them.

If you have such a strict interpretation of the "fine print", that means, that you can never watch a show with your spouse, your children, or any of your friends, since you are the only paying customer (assuming your are the one who is paying the cable bills).


Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:47 PM (3vVOD)

46 FYI
Fair use, as a rule of thumb, allows up to 10% be used for classroom presentations, criticism, et cetera. Anything above that and you're pressing your luck.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 03:47 PM (EkG0f)

47 And, btw, the sci-fi network is not a free channel, so you wouldn't be recording it for free on your DVR.  You paid for the rights of that show to record & watch as you please.  Illegal use & illegal sharing is when the long arm of the law comes into play.

Personally, I think that few tv shows have complained about this because they're not losing much - if any - due to bittorrent.  It's the movies & music.  In the case I cited, I watched the first two seasons of BSG & now I'm hooked on the show and never miss it, so the sci-fi network has a loyal viewer in me (I'm not rationalizing the downloading, only emphasizing what many artists have now realized; sampling sells...they just have to figure out how to make 'sampling' available w/o it becoming whole-downloads). 

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 03:48 PM (IirzJ)

48 What kind of pie?

All kinds of pie.

Here might be an interesting question.  I am a US citizen currently living in the US.  I have found a website that allows me to watch television shows streamed to my computer.  The servers for this website are located outside of the US.  Since I am not downloading a permanent copy of the show, and the source of the data is outside of the US, am I breaking copyright laws?

Also, I have lived in other countries where US copyright law is non-applicable.  If I were to purchase a boot-legged DVD for $1 and return to the US with it in my possession, would that be breaking copyright law?

Posted by: former republican at August 31, 2007 03:48 PM (I+C25)

49 Nom de Blog, yes.

First, the copyright is held by the TV show creator which, at least in the example of BSG is a U.S. company. So it doesn't matter that you're watching NBC's content on a website hosted overseas. You're infringing NBC's copyright.

Second, even if the copyright was held by a person or company outside the U.S., you could still be sued in U.S. courts or the courts of the other country. The U.S. is (after many years of holding out) a party to the Berne Convention. (Thank you so much for letting me work international law into this. I'm sure Drew thanks you, too!)

Third, U.S. courts have already ruled that streaming video is affixed to a tangible medium (assuming the content in question was never affixed to something else before it got modified for internet streaming). The fact that you asked makes me think that you're not ignorant of copyright law.

Finally, if you go over to your friends house to watch the movie that he illegally copied, you have infringed the copyright. (And your friend will have infringed at least twice; once when copying illegally, and once when watching.)

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 03:49 PM (1Ug6U)

50 rw: "When ratings drop (and, baby, BSG's have dropped), sales rates for
advertising drops and shows that don't make money get cancelled (unless
BSG's ratings improve, quickly, it's soon to be gone). "

Hate to break this too you...but nexts season is going to be the last. Ron Moore himself has confirmed it.

Posted by: madne0 at August 31, 2007 03:49 PM (wuxU/)

51

Remeber Cookie Puss and Fudgie the Whale?


And the guy who did the commercials for Carvelle's who sounded like he had a mouthful of marbles?


Posted by: bartwing plover at August 31, 2007 03:49 PM (pSH8t)

52 Drew, yes. It was called the Home Audio Recording Act.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 03:51 PM (1Ug6U)

53 I do not believe that the Supreme Court ever defined what "mass distribution" means. If you give a tape to 1, 2, or 3 friends is it OK? What about 10, 100, 1000? Where is this "mass distribution" line drawn? It's just a numbers game.

There are 6+ billion people in the world. If a torrent is downloaded by 10,000 people, that means that only 0.00016% will have seen it.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:51 PM (3vVOD)

54 Whoops. Make that the Audio Home Recording Act.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 03:51 PM (1Ug6U)

55 Damn you Nom...beat me to the question. What about the second question in post 48 Gabe?

Posted by: former republican at August 31, 2007 03:51 PM (I+C25)

56     The site comment was in reply to your charge that bittorent involves "selling" through ads. And on the technology issue, plenty of legal things go through bittorent also. Many linux distros use it. Saying Bitorrent is illegal is like saying guns are illegal because they kill people.

Posted by: ultimaflare99 at August 31, 2007 03:53 PM (tNTd5)

57 If you have such a strict interpretation of the "fine print", that
means, that you can never watch a show with your spouse, your children,
or any of your friends, since you are the only paying customer
(assuming your are the one who is paying the cable bills).



That's just nonsensical. 

Look magnetism87 you can argue all you want for what you think and what you'd like. The reality is no court (and Gabriel and others can correct me if I am wrong here) have upheld your position. In fact they have done just the opposite.

Now, you can argue what you think the law should be but please stop insisting that is the same as what the law is.

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:53 PM (hlYel)

58 Gabriel Malor,

You assume too much in your final paragraph. You assume I knew or had reason to know that the friend's recording violated copyright.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 03:54 PM (EkG0f)

59 I do not believe that the Supreme Court ever defined what "mass distribution" means.

Value of silence, dude.

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 03:55 PM (jbiW7)

60 that you can never watch a show with your spouse, your children, or any
of your friends, since you are the only paying customer (assuming your
are the one who is paying the cable bills).

Nope.
The courts decided this kind of stuff long ago.  You can pay the $39.99 for a boxing ppv and invite your friends over to watch and there's no problem, because you paid for the rights to view that show in your HOUSEHOLD.  You can't illegally share it.  They usually use some sort of legalese like this: "Except as otherwise expressly permitted under copyright law, no copying, redistribution, retransmission, publication or commercial exploitation of downloaded material will be permitted without the express permission...
</span>

Bittorrent falls under the 'retransmission' and 'redistribution' part.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 03:55 PM (IirzJ)

61 Gabriel Malor,

You will note that I said I was watching at a friend's house for free. If they charged I'd have reason to believe there were some copyright questions. That's why I said it was for free.

And yes, I'm not uninformed on these issues. And I thought I'd tee one up for you.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 03:57 PM (EkG0f)

62 Make that the Audio Home Recording Act.

Gracias.

ultimaflare99...I admit I may be wrong on that point. When I went to bittorent just now (for the first time because I don't steal content) there were ads. I could be wrong that the ad revenue generated is legally related to the streaming of show.

The fact remains that the owners of the copyright on BSG have the right to allow or disallow a site to stream their content.

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 03:57 PM (hlYel)

63
Hate to break this too you...but nexts season is going to be the last. Ron Moore himself has confirmed it.

Yeah, I remembered that after I typed it.  It began losing steam the minute they put the humans on New Caprica.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 03:58 PM (IirzJ)

64 That's just nonsensical. 

Look magnetism87 you can argue all
you want for what you think and what you'd like. The reality is no
court (and Gabriel and others can correct me if I am wrong here) have
upheld your position. In fact they have done just the opposite.


Now, you can argue what you think the law should be but please stop insisting that is the same as what the law is.

Not at all nonsensical. The only difference being that the lawyers have not gone after the spouses and the children and the friends, because it would be a suicidal PR move on the part of the networks to do so. If you wish to argue strict interpretations of the "fine print", and according to the legal definition of "fair use" as state by Gabriel, then you can't pick and choose who you go after.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:59 PM (3vVOD)

65 Closing the tag. My bad.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 03:59 PM (3vVOD)

66 You will note that I said I was watching at a friend's house for free.
If they charged I'd have reason to believe there were some copyright
questions.

They can just do what bars do when they televise big fights and just say that it's a 'cover charge' for the beer.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 04:00 PM (IirzJ)

67 not that ryan, please show me where the Supreme Court put a number on it.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 04:01 PM (3vVOD)

68 Nom de Blog, copyright violation is not an intent crime. It doesn't matter that you didn't know that you were violating the law. An action for infringement can be brought against anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of
the copyright owner.

Now, obviously no one is going to get sued for watching a pirated video in their friends living room. But that's just because there's no money in it.

From a legal standpoint, your use is an infringement and therefore subject to injunctions, damages (if they can prove them), impound, and attorney's fees for the trouble.



Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:01 PM (1Ug6U)

69 RW,
Bars pay a lot more than would you in your home for PPV stuff. Usually they have to pay based on capacity or the number of TVs or some such.
But for HBO or Showtime fights you're right, of course.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 04:02 PM (EkG0f)

70 And once again, it doesn't matter if no one makes any money on the infringement. It's still illegal.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:03 PM (1Ug6U)

71 Gabriel Malor,
I think you're wrong on that point but would be happy to be corrected if I am in error. If you can point to one case where anybody has been sued for the violation you allege is punishable, I'll change my opinion.

Don't give me some "fertile octogenarian" law school answer. Show me a case. It's simply not 'the law' if it's never been used.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 04:05 PM (EkG0f)

72 magnetism87...



See RW at #60, he did you the courtesy of taking you seriously.



Look, by your argument then there's different copyright protections for
cable v. over the air broadcast tv. It's not about the rights of the
person who pays the cable bill, it's about the property of the person
who bought the right to distribute content. They paid for certain
exclusive rights, when you get that content outside of those licensed
distribution methods you are stealing.

Again, please stop telling us what you wish the law was and deal with what it actually is.

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 04:05 PM (hlYel)

73 magnetism, the RIAA certainly has gone after the children and spouses of people. They demanded the computer of the son of an accused file-sharer who lived down the street, because "he had access" to the mother's computer.

Posted by: ultimaflare99 at August 31, 2007 04:06 PM (tNTd5)

74 Magnetism, try the Supreme Court on MGM vs Grokster - they seemed to think a p2p network was considered 'mass distribution' enough to rule in favor of MGM.

plz to be stop splitting hairs naow

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 04:11 PM (jbiW7)

75 I'm still waiting for an answer regarding whether the legal purchase of  boot-legged material in a country where US copyright laws are not applicable; and said medium is returned with the purchaser to the US is a copyright infringement.

This question is assuming that only one copy was brought back and there was no intent to distribute.

Posted by: former republican at August 31, 2007 04:12 PM (I+C25)

76 ultimaflare99, yeah, I know all about the RIAA. The only difference between them and the networks, is that the networks have not gone after the children and the spouses, but that is the peril of interpreting the law so literally.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 04:12 PM (3vVOD)

77 My favorite copyright thingy is Microsoft only selling a non-transferable license for its software. It is illegal to sell or give away your computer without uninstalling the Microsoft software you installed including your operating system.

And it's also illegal to reinstall that software into your new computer. It's a one time use license.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 04:12 PM (EkG0f)

78 not that ryan, Grokster had centralized servers. In the case of bit torrents, there are no central servers, it's a pure distributed system, where each user acts as a server.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 04:14 PM (3vVOD)

79 not only that, but with bit torrents you only get chunks of data from each user, which in itself is not watchable. It only becomes watchable when put together with all the other non-watchable pieces.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 04:18 PM (3vVOD)

80 It is illegal to sell or give away your computer without uninstalling
the Microsoft software you installed including your operating system.

Usually, by then there's another version out & no one would want it, anyway (got any copies of Windows 98 lying around?)   Jokes aside, that is a good point.  Here's something about MSFT that has bothered me for a while: the oil companies make billions in profit for a commodity that many can derive and sell (there are still oil rigs capped in TX, it's just not economically feasible to drill there, yet) and they're pilloried and considered just short of Satan because of the "obscene" profits that they provide to their shareholders.  Bill Gates, however, is the richest person in the history of the universe, with Paul Allen following close - which means that they've been gauging MSFT purchasers all along....yet, Gates isn't asked to cut his prices: ever.  No one utters a peep about the price of MSFT products, even though the US gov't took them to court claiming a monopoly.  Sorry, side discussion, I know.  Just had to vent.



Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 04:19 PM (IirzJ)

81 magnetism87,

That's the tricky part about "affixing to a medium" with distributed systems but the courts are unlikely to carve out an exception that would kill copyright protections. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time admitting you're wrong.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 04:20 PM (EkG0f)

82 RW,
The richest guy is now some dude from Mexico.
And Rockefeller is still the richest, by some measures, of all time.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at August 31, 2007 04:21 PM (EkG0f)

83

Why is this important? Because the best show on television will no longer be available on iTunes. Frak!


Waahhh de fuckin wahwahwah! So you miss a TV program. Grow the fuck up and get a life you little GenX bitches. Read a damn book every once in a while. Or have you not seen the latest Patricia Shroeder report? Illiterate, techno-addict deadbeat.


Yeah, I've been drinkin'. Deal with it.


Homos.


Posted by: Sticky B at August 31, 2007 04:21 PM (wkjFE)

84 Nom de Blog, I have no problems admitting I am wrong about the law. I am an engineer, not a lawyer. Pretty much all my knowledge of law comes from watching Law & Order.

My problem lies with the strictest interpretation of the law. Hell, the law of the land, the Constitution is not interpreted so strictly.

Posted by: magnetism87 at August 31, 2007 04:25 PM (3vVOD)

85 former republican, sorry, I got distracted.

First, there are very few countries where it is legal to buy pirated works--legal in that jurisdiction, I mean. Assuming that you've somehow managed to find one of those hell-holes, you still violate U.S. copyright law when you purchase it. U.S. courts may never get jurisdiction over you, but you've still violated U.S. law.

When, as in your hypothetical, you come back to the U.S. you can be sued for infringement.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:25 PM (1Ug6U)

86 Ok...getting back on topic....

Ron Moore is gonna have to do a really good job explaining "All Along The Watchtower" as well as why the Final Five are among the human crew.  If the FF are so important, why risk having them killed by Cylon attacks on the fleet?  That's a little odd isn't it?  If they die, do they go to a resurrection ship?  If so, then it's pretty easy for the other skinjobs to peek inside a respawn chamber to see who they are right?  If they don't respawn, then it's pretty reckless of them to be on Galactica.

The whole religion angle got a bit much for me.  I'm not slamming mono or poly-theism, I'm just saying that Moore et al are investing a lot into the religious side of the show.  Please just stay on track with the sci-fi stuff!  You've already got enough plot holes.

Oh yeah, Six better be naked this season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: EC at August 31, 2007 04:25 PM (j2Tjh)

87 "You're trying to hose our customers?!  Screw You!  You're Out!!"


I think it's Awesome.

Posted by: Terry at August 31, 2007 04:26 PM (/Soh5)

88 Sticky B, I am not a GenXer and I am insulted to be lumped in with them.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:26 PM (1Ug6U)

89 Gates isn't asked to cut his prices, since it's easy to pirate windows if you wanted to, and they distribute free it to anyone in the US who would likely pirate it anyways(such as students), and Microsoft is ok with this since it means they retain market share.

Posted by: ultimaflare99 at August 31, 2007 04:27 PM (tNTd5)

90 Oh yeah, Six better be naked this season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about some Lucy Lawless action, as well?

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 04:28 PM (IirzJ)

91 Oh for fuck's sake, I know how Bittorrent works - which creates a much larger illegal mass distribution than Grokster did.  Grokster had one, bT has close to a million at this point.  Besides, its rather centralized when you can access torrents through bittorrent.com or demonoid.com

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 04:30 PM (jbiW7)

92 EC, I love the religious stuff. In fact, I think the Final Five are explained by the religious stuff.

I also would like an explanation of All Along the Watchtower. However, I'd never heard the song before, so I'm not one of those that immediately got bent out of shape about using a cover. I like the BSG version.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:30 PM (1Ug6U)

93 First, there are very few countries where it is legal to buy pirated
works--legal in that jurisdiction, I mean. Assuming that you've somehow
managed to find one of those hell-holes, you still violate U.S.
copyright law when you purchase it. U.S. courts may never get
jurisdiction over you, but you've still violated U.S. law.


When, as in your hypothetical, you come back to the U.S. you can be sued for infringement.

Well Gab, if that is the case, then almost every soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine that has ever served in South Korea, Iraq, or (I'm assuming...never sent there) Afghanistan needs to be brought up on charges.



Posted by: former republican at August 31, 2007 04:30 PM (I+C25)

94 I am not a GenXer and I am insulted to be lumped in with them.



Yeah, well, at least we're not Baby Boomers.



Fraking kids these days. Get off my lawn!

Posted by: Drew at August 31, 2007 04:31 PM (hlYel)

95 former republican, indeed. Just because infringement is prevalent does not mean that it doesn't exist. And as is the case with every violation of law, enforcement is not always practical.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:32 PM (1Ug6U)

96 ultimaflare99, any company that wants to include MSFT office into its products either purchases the package or buys a buttload of computers that have a 'free' version included.

since it's easy to pirate windows if you wanted to

Their updating checks have made it harder than it used to be.

His prices are high enough to make him worth, what, 60 billion?  That stock price didn't appear by accident: they expect income.

Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 04:33 PM (IirzJ)

97

I'd never heard the song before...


 


WHAT?


Posted by: Bart at August 31, 2007 04:34 PM (kbrrs)

98 Bart, see above about me not being either a GenXer or an old fart.

Now, I need some dinner. Smell ya later, grandpa.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 04:36 PM (1Ug6U)

99 Well, I'm 40 and I personally think that any adult who is wise enough to use the internet & access blog comments sections but who hasn't taken the time to appreciate Jimi should be taken outside and shot.



Posted by: RW at August 31, 2007 04:38 PM (IirzJ)

100 Dinner also calls.  Toodles, pips.

Posted by: not that ryan at August 31, 2007 04:39 PM (jbiW7)

101 However, I'd never heard the song before

Ok, now I know not to take you seriously anymore.  I'm hereby revoking your Man Card and all privileges and benefits that go with it.

Dude....

Posted by: EC at August 31, 2007 04:44 PM (j2Tjh)

102 A Boomer does Boomer scene would work for me.

Posted by: eman at August 31, 2007 04:44 PM (F/DIG)

103 Gab and Not that Ryan... don't forget pie for desert.  I think I'm going to go get some rhubarb.

Posted by: former republican at August 31, 2007 04:46 PM (I+C25)

104 ultimaflare99, any company that wants to include MSFT office into its
products either purchases the package or buys a buttload of computers
that have a 'free' version included.


If you're a corporate customer, then yes, Gates now owns you. But the truth is, no one cares about business. At least here in liberal california, whenever people/news talk about the evil oil corporations, it's always, what do you mean gas is $3 a galleon? Now  i can't afford  to go watch a baseball game, they're gouging the little guy sort of thing.

Their updating checks have made it harder than it used to be.

I've never known anyone to have trouble with anything pre-Vista, and I refuse to run that, so you may be right there

His prices are high enough to make him worth, what, 60 billion?  That stock price didn't appear by accident: they expect income.

UCLA provides copies of Windows XP, visual studio, office etc. for free to the entire student body. And they gave out 100 something copies of Vista at a launch party this year. Steve Ballmer made a famous comment about piracy in China, that they would rather them pirate Windows then use the competitors, because they could always figure out some way later to make them pay. So yes, they do expect income, but until they figure out how to get it, they want you using Windows, even if it's a pirated copy.

They can do this of course, since piracy imposes no additional production costs

Posted by: ultimaflare99 at August 31, 2007 04:47 PM (tNTd5)

105 Nothing personal GM. I was just trying to stir up some of that sweet inter-generational flaming. I've found  the last couple of days of boomer/nonboomer shit-slinging to be great fun.

Posted by: Sticky B at August 31, 2007 04:54 PM (wkjFE)

106 And I have been drinking.

Posted by: Sticky B at August 31, 2007 04:55 PM (wkjFE)

107 1.  The final five are analogous to the five "boxed" Cylons, i.e. the ones that no skinjobs have ever seen. 

2.  There's a reason All Along The Watchtower was chosen.  There's a reason why (aside from money to pay for it) that a cover was chosen.  That's all I'm gonna say about that.

From the rumors I've heard, the next (the last) season's gonna be something else, BTW.  Can't.  Wait.

Cheers,
Dave

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge at August 31, 2007 04:56 PM (JRpJU)

108 And I do detest TV along with most other forms of entertainment produced after about 1990. Grouchy bastard is what I am.

Posted by: Sticky B at August 31, 2007 04:57 PM (wkjFE)

109 Oh that's right. I'd forgotten that you have the inside track, Dave at GR.

It better be a damn good season. They were slipping a little there in the third.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 31, 2007 05:33 PM (1Ug6U)

110 Its not stealing if you pay for it. I pay DirecTV to receive the Scifi channel so its no different than Tivo when I download the episode using BitTorrent the night it airs.

My question is: if some 12-year-old in his parent's basement can make these episodes available through BitTorrent, why the frak can't the networks?

Posted by: FrakYou at August 31, 2007 05:48 PM (je3ki)

111 I don't know why a cover of "All along the watchtower" was chosen although I admit it fit the moode better than the Hendrix version would have, but I do have a theory on why it was playing.  It has to do with the last 15 seconds and the fast camera pullback. 

Posted by: chad at September 01, 2007 05:13 AM (WNcvq)

112 Making them available isn't the obstacle: collecting the money legally is.

Posted by: RW at September 01, 2007 05:14 AM (IirzJ)

113

Here in Canada we pay TAX on every audi & video casette, and every CD and DVD disk (blank ones eh?) the Government then give that money to the music and film industry. I have no idea who gets what, but I know this: I have paid for anything I will ever download, in advance yet.


Is it fair? Hard to say. Of course many blank casettes & roms are not actually used for copying music or movies, so we paid the Industries for nothing.


Now as to the morality of it all: if you lend a friend a movie, that's fair & leagal. If you charge your friend money to borrow the movie, that is copyright infringement unless you give some of the money to the rights holders. If you make lending illegal, then playing that 8-track in your car when someone else is in the car would be against the law, eh? That's just stupid.


The bottom line is this: you cannot outlaw free sharing of something that was freely distributed in the first place. By "free" I mean you don't pay per view off TV, or pay per listen off the radio, of that specific movie/song.


Posted by: 5Cats at September 01, 2007 07:55 AM (Knaf0)

114
The bottom line is this: you cannot outlaw free sharing of something that was freely distributed in the first place.

Of course you can. Let's say I write a book. I give away 20 proof copies to friends and family. One of my friends copies the copy that I gave him and starts giving the copies away free. He is infringing my copyright.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at September 01, 2007 08:54 AM (1Ug6U)

115 One thing that Gabriel is leaving out of it is that the vast majority of copyright is civil, and a vital element of civil litigation is damages.  They are giving away the episodes for free to consumers, so that already sets the damages low.  They would have to show a lost profit analysis, and would have to get over the hurdle of showing how many of the people who downloaded it would have otherwise watched it legally.  They won't even be able to think about criminal charges until they can show damages in excess of $2500.  (It's hard to get there from "free."  It is much easier to get there from "$18 an album.")

So yeah, if you bootlegged BSG to bittorrent, they would win the case against you, and they would get an injunction against you.  If you did it again, then they would be able to go after you for bigger damages on violating the injunction (various contempt charges and sanctions available.)  I have a hard time getting worked up about crimes where the damages are zero.

Posted by: Phelps at September 03, 2007 09:03 AM (0Nw5i)

Posted by: vagf at February 05, 2009 03:35 PM (b40qC)

117

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Posted by: DVD to iPad converter mac at May 31, 2011 01:13 AM (tuHXg)

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