March 31, 2006
— Ace Backlash?
This weeks tensions over immigration reform literally caught fire in the East Valley on Thursday when students raised a Mexican flag over Apache Junction High School and then other students yanked it down and burned it.
I know (they) shouldnt have burned the Mexican flag, said Jacob Stewart, a 16-year-old sophomore. I heard it was raised above the American flag and that just irked me.
Thanks to Craig.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Posted by: Anonymous Geek at March 31, 2006 10:28 AM (q/kmn)
You put your sh!t where it doesn't belong, then it's fair game - personally I'd have favored cutting it into strips, rolling them together and leaving it in the lavatory myself, but burning is cool too.
Posted by: Scott at March 31, 2006 10:28 AM (f8958)
Posted by: brak at March 31, 2006 10:34 AM (yHvEo)
BTW - remember the husband that was on strike that Ace reported on earlier inthe week? Turns out he's a registered sex offender. And yes...his website is down.
Posted by: Pixelflash at March 31, 2006 10:37 AM (O+1/6)
Posted by: adolfo velasquez at March 31, 2006 10:41 AM (qVkLh)
Posted by: Canelone at March 31, 2006 10:42 AM (1Vbso)
I think it was burned not as an insult to Mexico, but more of an "in-your-face" to the illegal immigrants who have burned gringo sympathies to a crisp this past week.
Posted by: Golden Boy at March 31, 2006 10:50 AM (0KuYt)
If there were solidarity with the American ideal in this form of protest, then the US flag would fly superior to the mexican flag, and the Mexican flag would fly below the US flag, demonstrating that Americans, respect those immigrants from Mexico, and those Immigrants know that they are from Mexico, but desire to be American.
This was not a random flag burning where the protestors brought their own Mexican flags, displayed them, and then burned them. They burned a symbol of conquest, which happened to be the particular flag that was flying supreme to the US. It was good, honest, and real citizen soldiery, without the use, threatened use or insinuation of violence against those they disagree with. It was more an expression of, "here in the US the US reigns supreme" which, well, it does.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at March 31, 2006 11:02 AM (QTv8u)
b) heariing that they did this made me happy inside
this means I should either:
a) see a shrink
b) take up heavy drinking
Posted by: OregonMuse at March 31, 2006 11:30 AM (gWvet)
My guess is that they were pissed.
Posted by: Chad at March 31, 2006 11:53 AM (FuQ36)
Also, the sophomore specificaly said:
Jacob Stewart, a 16-year-old sophomore. “I heard it was raised above the American flag and that just irked me.”
So maybe he didn't feel everything that i described, but he fundamentaly understood that the US is supreme within the borders of the US.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at March 31, 2006 12:02 PM (QTv8u)
My guess is that they were pissed because they display of the flags in the some context as Wicked and I did. Not as protest, but as arrogance, confrontation and conquest.
I agree with Wicked on every point he made.
I just hope that this incident will be reported in context, not as a random act of “flag burning”.
Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2006 12:04 PM (12gN8)
My guess is, they were pissed because they saw the flags in the same context as Wicked and I did. Not as protest, but as arrogance, confrontation and conquest.
Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2006 12:08 PM (12gN8)
They need to feel that they have to fight for it. But it seems that (at least in L.A., Dallas, etc.) the American high school kids have given up. If they don't feel that it's worth fighting for, then we can't make them. The Bennetts and Churchills are winning.
Posted by: Pixelflash at March 31, 2006 12:09 PM (O+1/6)
Hard to say if they have given up… or are just outnumbered.
Posted by: A.Weasle at March 31, 2006 12:13 PM (12gN8)
Good edit, the whole "everything" line was risky.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at March 31, 2006 12:23 PM (QTv8u)
I don't know how many lectures I had recieved, how many hours as a kid, I spent in jail because "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" BLAH BLAH BLAH!
But the same bastards who were willing to lay this on an honest kid, who was willing to fuck up, are now saying that OTHER criminals aren't "illegal immigrants" even though the vast majority of Illegal Aliens (they aren't immigrants till they go through the fucking process) KNOW they are breaking the laws of the US. WHY! do people who willingly violate the borders of the US don't just get off scott free, but they also get these fancy fucking euphemisms? "undocumented worker?" Not all of them are fucking working, many of them are verifiable fucking criminals, but for me 20 years ago, "ignorance of the law is no excuse."
NOW, the lesson is "you can break the law, as long as you know what votes I wanna schill for" ROAR!!!! Sorry, just heard a playback of Laura Ingraham and Dominici said at least 5 times in 2 minutes "undocumented workers." FUCK him. How about a more accurate description? "undeported criminals?"
Posted by: Wickedpinto at March 31, 2006 01:33 PM (QTv8u)
"Oh, no you di'int!"
"Eeewww! Ben Afleck spooge!"
Posted by: S.P Fan at March 31, 2006 01:44 PM (yyokN)
Posted by: Chad at March 31, 2006 02:11 PM (o3d8C)
Posted by: Jane Fonda at March 31, 2006 02:46 PM (WjdPM)
I’m out of suggestions, I’m beginning to think it may be to late (12 mil.) to solve the illegal alien problem in this Country.
I live in a very red part of a very blue state (Or.), and all I know is, if this had of happened 250mi. from here (Portland), this kid would already be in jail for hate crimes, however, if it had of happened where I live, the only fight would have been over the matches.
Because this Country is so rabid and polarized over everything right now, I’m beginning to wonder if there is anything we can find a solution to.
So Sad…I kind of liked living in my home state and my home Country, but I hear there is some nice places down around the Cook Islands.
Posted by: A. Weasel at March 31, 2006 02:48 PM (YSLk2)
Posted by: at March 31, 2006 04:32 PM (+6hDE)
Posted by: ErikW at March 31, 2006 04:34 PM (+6hDE)
First is my pet peeve (peev, peave, spelling? fuggit) Kids, while not stupid do, not, in general, have enough information to be able to form valid opinions about complex systemic issues like politics. They can't even speak a single sentence without using "like" at least twice, and then calling it a fucking metaphor.
Second, any kid thinking they might be able to scam a day off of school, will, ESPECIALLY if there is a teacher, or a teaching system that praises protest (despite ignorance of the topic) as a form of righteous expression. (which is untrue.)
Third, There is NO WAY! someone miracled the idea of putting the Mexican flag superior to the US Flag without someone knowing something about heraldry or general military practices influencing them.
Fourth, EVERY one of the kids who didn't attend should lose 1/72nd of their grade due to attendance, as I did for each one of my suspensions, and 1/36th of their grade due to attendance if they deliberately left class, or were dismissed punitively, as I was during my various suspensions.
An additional comment. "Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism" is a retarded phrase. Dissent in the face of conflict against your nation, MIGHT be a form of patriotism, but our system allows for the airing of opinions on a regular basis, every two years to be specific. Granted, it is IMPORTANT for one to be a critic of a thing they believe, so that that thing might become greater than it already is, but to DISSENT from the thing you believe, is to renounce that thing you believe in favor of something better. There is a small distinction with a major difference, when applied to a friggen NATION!
I'm not a fan of bush other than the war, but my CRITICISM of bush is not a desire to replace him with someone else, or some other action because I cannot articulate what it is that I would do differently, I just think that some of the things he's done are wrong, and it would take another leader as strong as bush to understand what was wrong, and to act appropriately to correct them.
Odd how "intellectuals" fail to understand the distinctions with differences, while creating differences without distinctions like a "security plan" filled with rhetoric instead of answers.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at March 31, 2006 04:39 PM (QTv8u)
Posted by: spurwing plover at March 31, 2006 05:30 PM (6rkkO)
This is OUR country and OUR flag and if you hate it here so much go back to your own fucking country and stop jumping the borders! Go to school in Mexico (or plug in the name of whatever country) and fly your own fucking flag.
I salute the kid that had the balls to take down that flag and burn it....as it should be.
Many communities in Cali make it hard pressed to even know your in the U.S. Montebello, Hacienda Heights, Garden Grove to mention a few.....Fuck some parts have many busienss signs, menu...etc in foreign lanugages only!.......Fuck that....get the fuck out if you can't bother to learn english!
Yeah, I would say the kid was pissed and with good reason.
Posted by: christine at March 31, 2006 05:42 PM (HEjoD)
If you are a catholic, or christian, you might wear a crucifix on your neck, that is NOT a provocation, that is a DECLARATION of your own faith. YOU are Christian, and you will wear a crucifix. I WAS a Marine, and I ALWAYS carry, though I do not display, an Eagle Globe and Anchor on me at all times, keychain, money clip or some other small little definition that I once was, but no longer am.
The NATION as a WHOLE has the flag, or Standard, to defile MY standard, which is the thing I protected above all else at the time I deserved to WEAR my Eagle Globe and Anchor, is VITAL to me, and I bet it is important to the children of Marines. Arizona doesn't have a deficiency of them
For me, a man without religion, my only faith is my nation, and to defile MY standard, to defile the IMAGE of my ONLY FAITH by puting some substandard nations standard as superior? That for me? honestly? would have meant deliberate removal, destruction, and were I to be "protested" into a bloody pulp, I would have fired shots.
I was born under one ideal, I was raised under one ideal, and I SUPPORT those who WISH to LEARN how to live under that ideal, but NEVER! will I make the IDEA of AMERICA a token of protest, and derision in exchange for peace. My ancestors who were first generation immigrants, served under that standard/flag, their women suffered while their men were gone, every man in my family served that standard though they ate polish sausage, sauer kraut and spaghetti, they loved that brilliant standard of freedom more than the nation that gave them good food. Every man in my family Loved that flag. Why can't ONE! of the illegals realize that it is THAT flag they want to birth and bathe their children under?
I have a friend Adolfo, he's an imigrant, not a "first generation" but an honest immigrant. His SISTER stole him from his mother, and made him an American Citizen, later his sister brought his mother, who whas obstinate, across the border, and now aldofo's mother is a citizen. Adolfo's sister explained to their mother, "you want us to do better, you CANNOT be his mother here, He WILL learn english, and so will you" His sister, and her husband, but really his sister, would not let adolpho join a second language school, he was gonna be American, just like his mother wanted, and just like only his sister could teach.
His sister, basicaly homeschooled him (actually his brother in law, a semi-well off northeasterner with a degree in business) He would go to public school, sometimes crying, sometimes confused, sometimes completely ignorant of what happened. But his sister, and her husband, would get the syllabus, and FORCE not just my friend adolfo, but also his, and his sisters mother, to LEARN!
Adolfo came to the United states when he was 3, and lived in Corpus Christi texas until he was 17, he enlisted in the Marine Corps at 17, and actually entered boot when he was 19. Adolfo had a 95 AFQT on his ASVAB. Adolfo Married a white girl, got his ass kicked, and was saved only because he spoke english. Adolfo, IS a "Mexican American" and while he will always respect his herritage? Adolfo is MORE American than ANY of the illegals who think they can EXTORT the freedoms that Adolfo and his family fought so hard for.
Posted by: wickedpinto at March 31, 2006 07:40 PM (QTv8u)
Not entirely sure you whole point to me....but I did go back and look at my post which I wrote when very irritated. To boot I very rarely curse! and really let go I guess.
I too have friends and family from all over the world....some born in the U.S. some immigrants. You can't tell by that post but I am both a Catholic and from an immigrant background.
I have family that has always served in the military and friends some which were not born here in the U.S. that have also served in the military. This country was founded by immigrants and basically we are all immigrants....BUT still are citizens and/or guests and should respect our flag.
I do though feel strongly about what has been happening in this country that my family and friends have served and some sacraificed their lives for. I believe that we each have the right to freedom of expression BUT that raising a foreign flag above ours is way out of line! I also believe that if you immigrate to another country that you should have the courtsey to learn the language. Not that you have to leave your culture behind totally.
I beleive like A. Weasel (who stated he did not write in his own blog because of his feelings) that I allowed my emotion to make me sound like a racists lunatic.....
Bottom line is respect the country your living in or move to another place. Many men and women have sacraficed much to live and work in this country!
This post is just a WEE bit more eloquent....I guess my rough around the edges coal miner roots were showing! The sane and educated woman is now back in full control and able to communicate on a more rationale level! Where's my gun! (lol!)
Posted by: Christine at March 31, 2006 10:48 PM (HEjoD)
Posted by: Enfant Perdu at April 01, 2006 02:58 AM (5Wci3)
Another idea is we could have the kids that dared to fly the Mexican flag above the American flag stand in a room and address... .American Soldier, Lt. Tim Maxwell and Wickedpinto (just to name a few people that would be interested in attending such a forum).....as to why this was a justified act or protest and NOT an act of defilement and subjugation of the United States.
Then an Ass Whooping would immediately following for said students!
I am thinking that the aforementioned people are more than qualified and deserving of administering the much needed ass whooping of said students.
Just a thought!
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 01, 2006 01:19 PM (HEjoD)
Bodacious, I speak, much the way I type, at least about things that I am passionate about. NEVER put me in front of a group of people who latch onto deliberate ignorance, I will likely spit and throw things inciting a micro-riot. Or, if you are the MSM a micro - Protest.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at April 01, 2006 02:22 PM (QTv8u)
The whole purpose would be a lesson that those kids would NEVER forget! or misunderstand.
I think you would be just the guy to deliver such a message.
I like your style!
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 01, 2006 02:57 PM (HEjoD)
I realised what you were saying after I had posted. I was still a bit angry and also realised that it is just so easy for the protestor's to take comments such as my first post and twist it into a bigotry statement.
My second post was really more for me and I was using you as a sounding board also. Thank you for the nice note back.
I agreed with many of your thoughts and posts above on this subject.
I have tucked my Dirty Harry and John Wayne piss and vinegar side back away for the time being.
Posted by: Christine at April 01, 2006 04:08 PM (HEjoD)
Posted by: splashtc at April 01, 2006 06:07 PM (Y80as)
So I believe those kids knew exactly what they were doing when putting up the Mexican flag.
Not that I am having a problem moving on from this subject or anything!
Posted by: chrisitne at April 01, 2006 06:27 PM (HEjoD)
Posted by: Wickedpinto at April 01, 2006 10:49 PM (QTv8u)
Your alright!.....I am still holding out for the forum where you get to whip out a BIG OLE can of Whoop Ass at that school!
Anytime you want to go throw down some tequilla and shoot some pool you just let me know!
We could compare balls! I just ordered my very own official set of "Big Balls" I would loved to show them off!
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 01, 2006 11:51 PM (HEjoD)
We are on the same page, I realise, understand, and support your patriot beliefs!
5 yrs not liking yourself? C'mon now! be nice too yourself! You'll be bringing out the mom side of me and I'll have to make you cookies and stuff! Just ask my 12 yr....she rolls her eyes all the time! My motto is lets find Resolution not Blame.....blame goes nowhere....resolution amends the problem. OMG my kids love THOSE talks! makes them want to do the right thing, just so they don't have to listen to me ramble on.
Posted by: christine at April 02, 2006 07:57 AM (HEjoD)
Of course that was different...he was looking for votes.
Posted by: Mike at April 02, 2006 09:43 AM (leJWb)
Not about waving the flag....more about where you place a foreign flag in relation to the U.S. flag. And I maintain that if you place a foreign flag above the U.S. flag on U.S. soil.....then ANY citizen soldier has the right and duty to rip it down and burn it!
There are plenty of ways to "protest" and or disagree with fellow countrymen without defiling the flag and our country.
Also, if your a foreign national residing in this country YOU are a guest! If a "guest" comes to MY house and does not like the way I run my house...they have the right to express their opinnion but bottom line is, it is MY house and if you don't like it then you can leave! And not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Posted by: bodaciousflirt at April 02, 2006 09:55 AM (HEjoD)
Posted by: Kralizec at April 02, 2006 04:40 PM (gHR/6)
Kralizec....this I find off the point! The Virgin of Guadalupe is of Mexico but NOT the standard of Mexico like the Flag. The Virgin is a cultural and religious icon. I am a Catholic which has nothing to do with my being an American and respecting my country. catholic with a small "c" stands for universal. so to devile a depiction of the Virgin of Guadalupe would be attacking my faith even though I am an American. Those students defiled My flag and my nation which is seperate from my specific faith.
Those students are "free" here to walk out, and "protest" in this country, that is what our country is founded on. But not to defile the VERY symbol that gives them the freedom to protest OUR Flag.
Posted by: christine at April 02, 2006 05:28 PM (HEjoD)
Assuming that's true, and it wouldn't surprise me none, that annoys me and makes me wish President Bush wouldn't do it, its stupid.
What, you thought conservatives always supported the president on everything or something? Are you new?
Posted by: Cornpone at April 02, 2006 06:55 PM (1Vbso)
Mike also was seen waving Mexican flags the other day, as the protesters passed his front door.
He was trying to lure some latin boys over for a 'header'...
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at April 02, 2006 07:00 PM (QPFur)
Posted by: Cornpone at April 03, 2006 06:00 AM (1Vbso)
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