May 30, 2013

"McCain says we can identify the good guys in Syria — after he unwittingly meets with kidnappers"
— Ace

Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be a blogger and just commented for the last three hours.

Headline stolen from Allah. Says it all, really.

Here's a question: Many people have suggested that we just "let them fight each other until the maximum number of the jihadis (on either side) have killed each other."

Without endorsing that, and without questioning that: I'm wondering how the notion that Assad seems to now be winning this war, and, some thing, will win it within the next year or so, modifies the previous "do nothing" stance.

If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?

I'm just asking. This is not a rhetorical question. It's a question-question.

It's one of those few times someone actually asks a straight question on the Internet.

Posted by: Ace at 10:17 AM | Comments (350)
Post contains 189 words, total size 1 kb.

1 If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?


Yes

Posted by: Vic at May 30, 2013 10:18 AM (lZvxr)

2 Oh God. I can't stand the sound of McCain's voice. Even reading his name is getting unpleasant.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:18 AM (O6Tmi)

3 Aren't we already funding and arming the rebels -- just with a NATO/Turkey fig leaf?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:18 AM (ZPrif)

4 No.

We did that in Libya.  Look how that helped us.  Four dead Americans and a power vacuum.

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (GQ8sn)

5 And I still say piss on McCain.

Posted by: Vic at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (lZvxr)

6 My answer would be no. I go with George Washington when it comes to meddling in the affairs of other nations.

Posted by: Body Builder at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (DrC22)

7

What do we get out of helping the rebels?  Assad hates us and he's in power, or Assad hates us and he's dead, with politically unreliable rebels in charge.

 

I say there's nothing pressing for us to get involved.  At all. 

Posted by: @JohnTant at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (tVWQB)

8 I am indifferent to everyone's fate over there unless it directly impacts me. Life is cruel enough without borrowing the troubles of others.

Posted by: toby928 at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (evdj2)

9 If prolonging the war means arming Islamists, then yeah, let Assad win.

Posted by: mugiwara at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (W7ffl)

10 and remember, be respectful. It's Senator McShitty.

Posted by: mallfly, at May 30, 2013 10:19 AM (bJm7W)

11 Also, it seems the US govt is pretty unified -- Obama and McCain both are for supporting the rebels. Obama just ordered a no-fly zone plan, right?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (ZPrif)

12 It's either Assad or the AQ-affiliated rebels.

Which side is the bigger problem?

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (GQ8sn)

13 I think you give the losing side just enough support to keep them in the fight. Maybe slightly more than that so they can gain the advantage. Then you support the other side.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (da5Wo)

14 politically unreliable rebels in charge

You are a master of understatement.

Posted by: pep at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (YXmuI)

15 Arm both sides

Posted by: Vic at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (lZvxr)

16 Somehow this post reminds me of the Rat Found on Mars in the Sidebar.

Posted by: toby928 at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (evdj2)

17

>>> let them fight each other until the maximum number of the jihadis (on either side) have killed each other

Who has said that?  I don't think that it really works like that, unfortunately.  As long as Islamists are in power, both politically and culturally, they will continue to breed more jihadists. 

Posted by: dan-O at May 30, 2013 10:20 AM (D0bIN)

18 "Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be a blogger and just commented for the last three hours." Even though you get kind of shitty in the comments sometimes (as do we all), I appreciate the fact that you do this.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at May 30, 2013 10:21 AM (NcPjb)

19 In a 'balance of power' plan, yes. We should let the war grind on if we're convinced they're all bad actors and that the lives of the Syrian people don't matter to us a US policy. I'm reluctant to advocate intervention in civil wars but if we can find someone decent there, yeah I'll say we should give them guns, but stop there. That said, Assad is definitely a candidate for selective assassination.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at May 30, 2013 10:21 AM (3Znbm)

20 Maybe, if we could be sure that our aid would not be turned against us in the future. I'd wait and make sure that Assad really is winning and not just making some short-term gains before doing anything though - I am leery of getting too clever for our own good.

Posted by: Grey Fox at May 30, 2013 10:21 AM (NUjTM)

21 Which side is the bigger problem? Alqada or Iran? It's pretty much a toss up.

Posted by: toby928 at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (evdj2)

22 No worries.  We can both lose.

Posted by: Goatfuckers Inc. at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (SFs98)

23 13 I think you give the losing side just enough support to keep them in the fight. Maybe slightly more than that so they can gain the advantage.
Then you support the other side.


IOW, Victorian England's foreign policy with regard to the Continent.  It seemed to work pretty well for them.

Posted by: pep at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (YXmuI)

24 Hottest young demo for conservatives: Heart eaters!

Posted by: dedit at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (I88Jc)

25 All I can say is "no blood for oil" and "I am not going to be sent overseas by a half white man to go and kill slightly brown men" or whatever it was Ali said. Look, American foreign policy seems to be "blissful ignorance except for when a democrat needs to bomb sumthing" As in, we're so well insulated who cares what happens over there. Well, who cares? Maybe if the State Department started helping Christians in the 3rd world who are being hacked to death by the religion of peace, then I'd care.

Posted by: joeindc44 at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (QxSug)

26 How about instead of arming either side, while they're distracted fighting each other, we simply sweep in and turn the whole fucking country into a glass parking lot.

Posted by: mugiwara at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (W7ffl)

27 Well maybe but look at my boobs!

DON'T YOU LOOK AT MY BOOBS!

Posted by: Megan McCain at May 30, 2013 10:22 AM (WSi78)

28 Ship them all 250 tons of Humboldt Dusty Red with all the classic John Holmes DVDs we can muster up and open 500 Domino's Pizza Delivery joints. They wont want to fight anybody for a long time.

Posted by: Department of Ampersands & Awesome at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (VWfCN)

29

Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be a blogger and just commented for the last three hours.

 

-----------------------

 

Way to snap into action by posting a Hot Air link.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (CJjw5)

30 Btw folks, headline at Drudge: "WAR DRUMS: ASSAD VOWS TO STRIKE ISRAEL"

Posted by: BCochran1981 at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (da5Wo)

31 That's actually a really good question. (No, I am not [ just ] sucking up.) I will admit that my concern about Syria ranks somewhere around my concern for The Children so I know less about this than I should.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (VtjlW)

32 I say let Assad retain power. The Devil I know beats the Devil I do not. I know He is a huge problem in the area, but he beats the chaos that will take his place.

Posted by: Picric at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (n7q1Q)

33

Ace,

 

This ignores the fact that Assad is creeping back with Russian support.  So by more proactively aiding the rebels we may upset Russia.

 

Normally I'd be all for that, but what we gain here is really minimal in the grand scheme of things.

It might be better to simply count the damage done as a good thing and not get greedy trying to provoke more.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (GaqMa)

34 Is I don't know an acceptable answer? Both sides suck. I hope they both lose.

Posted by: L, elle at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (0PiQ4)

35 Yes. We should arm the rebels.
 
We are getting a free proxy war against Hezbollah, Iran, and even the Russkies for the price of a few bullets and no American blood.
 
However, I still think McCain sucks donkey balls.

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (ccXZP)

36 The downside of these wars -- especially these long, relatively low casualty wars -- is it's like using intermittent antibiotics. The jihadis coming out are better, stronger, smarter than they were going it. They are learning to be better, more dangerous fighters. The real long term goal should probably be to do anything decrease the fertility rate in the islamic world. Iran's fertility rate is very, very low -- even though the imams keep berating the women to have more kids. the more chaotic the country, the higher the birth rate. Egypt's birth rate has shot up since it collapsed. So, in the long run, fat, peaceful, and birth controlled is how I want the muslim world. Though the short term slaughter might be emotionally appealing.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:23 AM (ZPrif)

37 So McCain was set up? By Obama? or did he do it to himself?

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (xsEsw)

38

ASSAD VOWS TO STRIKE ISRAEL

 

 

That will work out well for him.

Posted by: garrett at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (IEgq0)

39 We need to develop a highly lethal weapon with an embedded GPS that causes it to explode if it is taken out of the Middle East.

Then flood the region with them.  All sides.

Posted by: cool breeze at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (A+/8k)

40 Way to snap into action by posting a Hot Air link. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 03:23 PM (CJjw5) If there's something worse than "sideways", you're going to get it.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (da5Wo)

41 McCain is so stupid and ill-informed that he meets with ex-choirboy kidnappers for peace  in Syria so that he can tell us we have finally found the right islamist assholes to support because what could possible go wrong this time!  Let's give them money, arms, comms gear, and put boots on the ground to make things right over there. 


When I think that this incompetent idiot was actually proposed as a presidential candidate, let alone that he won the primaries and ran as the R candidate, I know in my heart that the RINOs are not my friends!

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (Cnqmv)

42

Even though you get kind of shitty in the comments sometimes (as do we all),

 

 

Hey!  I'm totally not a fag and my shit's barely retarded!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (SFs98)

43 Just WTF did he think he was doing over there? I'm starting to feel about him the way I feel about Carter: He's a meddling old man.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (DPdf7)

44 Stay the hell out! Let Israel decide what they want in the country looking downhill at them. Do we really want the Muslim Brotherhood or whatever the hell these guys call themselves this week running Syria. Assad is a murderous asshole, no doubt but think about the alternative. If you want them to keep fighting each other Mossad can get the rebels all the arms they need. Stay out!

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at May 30, 2013 10:24 AM (X+nFp)

45 Back Israel, and let it be known that we will. As for the Syrians/Rebels - ehh, there isn't anything in it for us.

Posted by: RWC at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (fWAjv)

46 Btw folks, headline at Drudge: "WAR DRUMS: ASSAD VOWS TO STRIKE ISRAEL" It takes a clever man to provoke Israel into knocking out his remaining remaining air assets. Wheels within wheels with this 11th dimensional chess player.

Posted by: toby928 at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (evdj2)

47 Every year that Iran's birth rate stays so low further diminishes the threat they will pose in the future.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (ZPrif)

48

Send Meghan over there to help them, John.

Posted by: garrett at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (IEgq0)

49 The original stance is
a) let them kill each other.
b) don't get dragged into it.

If a) ceases to be an option, that does not mean that b) has become a bad idea.

Posted by: Jerome at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (eQa5p)

50 Btw folks, headline at Drudge: "WAR DRUMS: ASSAD VOWS TO STRIKE ISRAEL"


Dumbest move he can make.  Until he does it, there's no reason for the US/Israel to annihilate him and in turn help the rebels.


And really?  Why are we calling them rebels?  They are AQ jihadis looking to take over another country wholesale.  As much as I hate the fucking dentist, he is actually better to deal with than a crapload of jihadi goatfuckers.

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (GQ8sn)

51 I think you give the losing side just enough support to keep them in the fight. Maybe slightly more than that so they can gain the advantage. Then you support the other side. Posted by: BCochran1981 at May 30, 2013 03:20 PM (da5Wo) Or maybe we could just send them blankets.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (VtjlW)

52 If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?

My vote is stay out of it completely.

Maybe if we're lucky the global jihadis will focus funds and aid on Syria, diverting resources from attacking Israel and us.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at May 30, 2013 10:25 AM (TpXEI)

53 Take a large steel plate the size and shape of the middle east, drop it on them from space, and rivet it to the fucking bedrock.

Posted by: Berserker at May 30, 2013 10:26 AM (FMbng)

54 If the rebels start to win, do we arm Assad?

Posted by: zsasz at May 30, 2013 10:26 AM (MMC8r)

55 1.) Arm both sides. 2.) Let them bleed each other out until one is left standing. 3.) Flatten that one. 4.) Send a message to (what's left of) the Syrian people: "Quit being such f---ups or we do this again."

Posted by: Brother Cavil at May 30, 2013 10:26 AM (fMiHM)

56 didn't Reagan help the war between Iraq and Iran run into many extra innings? Too bad all we have today in his place is the smartest president in history.

Posted by: mallfly, extraordinaire at May 30, 2013 10:26 AM (bJm7W)

57 Let's move the question closer to home for the purposes of analysis:  Do we arm the Mexican drug dealers or the Mexican government?

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at May 30, 2013 10:26 AM (epxV4)

58

My problem with arming EITHER side is that those arms will eventually be used against us.  It's   just the     way things work.   But to address ace's question, if we MUST arm either side, then I'm all for arming the    losing side until such time as that side starts to win, then I say we swap over and arm the other side, and so forth.      Double-crossing and trickery are de rigeur in the Middle East; why not join in?

 

I really have no problem with these fuckwits killing themselves off.   Maybe -- just maybe -- the few DECENT people remaining in Syria who manage to survive the bloodshed of their bastard countrymen would actually have a chance then.   I doubt it, but it's the best shot they've got.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (4df7R)

59 The crazy ole' SOB needs to retire.


Posted by: dananjcon at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (jvd3N)

60 >>>f we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?

Yes.  I also believe our foreign policy would not be any more or less diminished if we had sent Meghan McCain to "negotiate" in Syria.

Posted by: Fritz at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (UzPAd)

61 And really, it all comes down to which side wins the fight for TFG's love. 'cause everybody loves him, hence us. How MUCH do they love him is the question.

Posted by: RWC at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (fWAjv)

62 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (/PCJa)

63 Way to snap into action by posting a Hot Air link.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 03:23 PM (CJjw5)


-----


Dude... you just got that thing stitched up....

Posted by: fixerupper at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (nELVU)

64 There is no win in this. Assad might have the upper hand and might "survive" but not sure what survive even means? The "unrest" will always simmer and the killing will go on. And, in many respects, a weakened Assad in power is probably the "Best" we can hope for. The "Rebels" would be far worst.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (9Bj8R)

65 Titrating the flow of arms and controlling the airspace will maximize the inflow of Jihadists into Syria.

It is an extension of the Bush Doctrine, and one that we should embrace.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (O6Tmi)

66 Arm Juan McAmnesty and the Boy (Wonder?) Graham a let them do some fighting.

Over there, over there...

Posted by: Joe Mama at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (Rs+YG)

67 Or maybe we could just send them blankets.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at May 30, 2013 03:25 PM (VtjlW)

 

Smallpox blankets, I assume?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (4df7R)

68 What does it matter?

Posted by: This comment is ripped from the headlines of 2013 at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (qxcKC)

69 Hey! I'm totally not a fag and my shit's barely retarded!
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 30, 2013 03:24 PM

So your shit played a character in Life Goes On?

Posted by: Department of Ampersands & Awesome at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (VWfCN)

70 It's almost as if McCain is kind of a warmonger. I'll admit I am a bit. If the US did a no-fly zone that would mean SEAD first (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense). So that would mean a few weeks of shock and awe as we took out their air force and air defense. It would be awesome to watch on TV.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:27 AM (ZPrif)

71 If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting? Yes. On a cash-only, payable-on-delivery basis.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (/PCJa)

72

Don't arm the rebels, but I don't have an issue with a no-fly zone to justify destroying any weaponry in the country we don't like in the name of supressing AA capabilities. Just get the Eurotrash to kick in some of our own money to do it.

Or we could just tell the Joos to do it.

Posted by: alittleenglish at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (SHZnC)

73 * crickets *

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (GQ72I)

74 Back Israel, and let it be known that we will.

As for the Syrians/Rebels - ehh, there isn't anything in it for us.

Posted by: RWC at May 30, 2013 03:25 PM (fWAjv)


US provided dollars, weapons, high explosives, and public support for Israel is the way to do this on the cheap and get results!



It will not happen under imam Obama.

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (Cnqmv)

75 re 46: so you're saying the Assad might be giving Barky a run for the title of the smartest president in history?

Posted by: mallfly, extraordinaire at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (bJm7W)

76

"Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be a blogger and just commented for the last three hours."

 

Hey, sometimes on long flights I'll walk back to coach and talk with some of the people there.

 

It keeps us humble.

Posted by: jwest at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (u2a4R)

77 We need moar phony refugee vipers to nurse on our sweet teats who'll consider us as dumb meat to rape later

Posted by: debit at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (I88Jc)

78


The waters off of Syria will soon be teaming with Zionist sharks.

 

 

 

Posted by: garrett at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (IEgq0)

79 54 If the rebels start to win, do we arm Assad? Posted by: zsasz at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM (MMC8r) No. Russia's interest. They'll take care of it.

Posted by: RWC at May 30, 2013 10:28 AM (fWAjv)

80 The question I would ask is which side winning helps Israel's security the most?  I can make arguments both ways.

Posted by: Muad'dib at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (KjlbF)

81 If the rebels start to win, do we arm Assad?

Posted by: zsasz at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM (MMC8r)

 

I think the Russians have that covered.

Posted by: tsrblke at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (GaqMa)

82 Posted by: Berserker at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM (FMbng)

I suggest a cutout in the shape of Israel......

http://tinyurl.com/c8cbj2d

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (O6Tmi)

83 All the US Government has been for the last several years are the pickers of winners and losers, regardless of consequence.

Green energy companies, Syria, Libya, Ethanol, Health Care, Unions.........

They DON'T CARE about anything but their OWN POWER.

This country can BURN for all they care, as LONG as they can KEEP POWER over it and Milk. IT. DRY.

Posted by: Sponge at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (xmcEQ)

84 Do we arm the Mexican drug dealers or the Mexican government?

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM (epxV4)


-----


We already did the dealers.

Posted by: fixerupper at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (nELVU)

85 I have no objection to the Assad/Rebel factions killing each other off..., in point of fact, I do not mind facilitating the process. I just do not want the last man standing to have any resources remaining, i.e., I do not want the AQ associated rebels to be over-supplied/over-aided by us.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (aDwsi)

86

Courage?  Yes.

Good sense?  Not so much.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Pirate Scum of Umbar at May 30, 2013 10:29 AM (hLRSq)

87 Cochran I responded to you in the last thread but here we are in new thread. I'm a Pennsy girl originally I moved to Texas 7 years ago. Stoudt's makes kickass beer and has great microbrew fests.

Posted by: DangerGirl @deadlyestrogen at May 30, 2013 10:30 AM (B2fm1)

88

If it's possible to remove politics from the discussion, and simply make this a matter of what's best for us, I think the last decade or so has shown we're better off not taking sides, UNLESS AND UNTIL they threaten us directly.

 

When that happens, reign fire down upon them.  Until they do, stay out. 

 

Which of course means we are long past our "sell by" date for Afghanistan. 

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2013 10:30 AM (TOk1P)

89

57 Let's move the question closer to home for the purposes of analysis: Do we arm the Mexican drug dealers or the Mexican government?

 

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM (epxV4)

 

---------

 

Uh...I think we've already done both.

 

Posted by: wheatie at May 30, 2013 10:30 AM (CnFRK)

90 Smallpox blankets, I assume? Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at May 30, 2013 03:27 PM (4df7R) Smallpox blankers.. WITH FRICKIN' LASERS!

Posted by: RWC at May 30, 2013 10:30 AM (fWAjv)

91 Or maybe we could just send them blankets. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Mmmm. Blondies. at May 30, 2013 03:25 PM (VtjlW) That only works in Kashmir.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (da5Wo)

92 We need moar phony refugee vipers to nurse on our sweet teats who'll consider us as dumb meat to rape later Posted by: debit Debit Johnson is right!

Posted by: toby928 at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (evdj2)

93 Take a large steel plate the size and shape of the middle east, drop it on them from space, and rivet it to the fucking bedrock.
Posted by: Berserker at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM


I vote for this. If we are going to get involved with the Arab states at all, it should be as operators of a no-fly zone around the whole friggin' bunch of 'em. My own preference, which would be too bloodthirsty to get the Poppin' Fresh Seal of Fairness, would be to announce that all -- governments and "rebels" -- disarm immediately, and follow up non-compliance with tactical nukes.

Support Israel to the hilt, and wipe out any Muzzie groups that even think violent thoughts, especially those that have the Choom Boy seal of approval.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (mHrip)

94 The smallpox blanket thing is a myth. There's only one mention in the literature and that happened centuries after the great die off of the amerindians. The idea that Americans committed genocide against the Indians is a viciuos blood libel and a lie. Vast majority of the amerindian deaths occurred before the British even landed. Most amerindians died from disease and starvation without ever seeing a white man. The diseases from the Spanish and Portuguese conquistadors spread fast and far. Majority of deaths were starvation when everybody got ill at once and they couldn't plant and harvest and tend to the crops.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (ZPrif)

95 "If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?"

There's no way we have the kind of "nuance" in understanding to massage this conflict that finely. Sure, letting them wipe each other out would be nice, but we really don't want Al Qaeda-Muslim Brotherhood (jihadist caliphate) to win the region. Assad is a known actor. What comes should his regime fall is not. Likely, it would be acutely worse.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (eHIJJ)

96 Second look at becoming a colonial power? 

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (4df7R)

97 The question I would ask is which side winning helps Israel's security the most? I can make arguments both ways. Posted by: Muad'dib at May 30, 2013 03:29 PM (KjlbF) No you can't. Not really. What ever Assad and his dad were, they basically kept the peace and the Golan was quite. Sure they stirred up trouble in Lebanon when it was in their interest, but having the islamist in charge in damascus is in no one's interest.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (9Bj8R)

98 Stoudt's makes kickass beer

Posted by: DangerGirl @deadlyestrogen at May 30, 2013 03:30 PM (B2fm1)

I can verify this statement.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (O6Tmi)

99 Assuming a Syria in constant conflict suits our interests, then yes, we arm one side, then the other. But I don' think it is a valid assumption. We should just stay out of it, let whoever wins, win. Then deal with the results as we must.

Posted by: mrshad at May 30, 2013 10:31 AM (Xqfwb)

100 35 Yes. We should arm the rebels.

We are getting a free proxy war against Hezbollah, Iran, and even the Russkies for the price of a few bullets and no American blood.

However, I still think McCain sucks donkey balls.

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 30, 2013 03:23 PM (ccXZP)


Yes. Having jihadists fighting hezbollah, priceless.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at May 30, 2013 10:32 AM (AWmfW)

101 How many islamist countries turned to shit after they were "helped"? What has changed? Nuttin'. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, thrice, etc., shame on us. We are prosecuting Americans who have joined the rebels over there b/c the rebels are terrorists. Someone shd remind the old man.

Posted by: Waldo at May 30, 2013 10:32 AM (dHIHO)

102
It's almost as if McCain is kind of a warmonger.

The Republicans, Bill Kristol, and AEI have never met a war they didn't like. This of course works out great for Obama when he wants to help the Muslim Bro-hood.

All it takes is saying it's for spreading democracy! and McCain and Graham will lead the way to war.


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 30, 2013 10:32 AM (Y4TdB)

103 So your shit played a character in Life Goes On?

Posted by: Department of Ampersands & Awesome

 

 

My shit never goes full retard.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 30, 2013 10:32 AM (SFs98)

104 Second look at becoming a colonial power?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at May 30, 2013 03:31 PM (4df7R)



Do you want to go live there?

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (GQ8sn)

105 but having the islamist in charge in damascus is in no one's interest.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 03:31 PM (9Bj8R)

Agreed, but I think that Assad is doomed no matter what the Russians do. It is therefore in Israel's best interest to make sure lots of Hezbollah fighters die.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (O6Tmi)

106 It seems to me that if your goal is a long drawn out struggle with an eventual loss for the helped side, send them Bob Dole.

Posted by: T. at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (ILIHz)

107

>>That only works in Kashmir.

 

 

We can't afford Cashmir. 

 Sequester.

Posted by: garrett at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (IEgq0)

108 Modern estimates is 95-98% of the amerindian deaths were due to disease and famine and were, sadly, inevitable once contact was made with disease-carrying europeans. It's why 100 Spaniards could defeat armies with 10k soldiers. They were all feverish and coughing and puking and shitting themselves.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (ZPrif)

109 I would arm the rebels.but nothing fancy,just Warsaw Pact junk ,small arms,RPG's,mortars etc and ammo of course.

Posted by: steevy at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (9XBK2)

110 Stay out. Let's look at the SCOD's record in picking sides in the Middle East. Egypt=clusterfuck, Lybia=clusterfuck, Sudan=clusterfuck, Iraq=clusterfuck, Afghanistan=clusterfuck. Anyone else notice a patter here? Stay out!

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (X+nFp)

111

The upside to Assad being out of power is that the pipeline between Iran and Hezbollah might be cut.  That goes through Syria.

 

Other than that, I think all of the *likely* possible endings for this war are bad.

 

Posted by: junior at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (UWFpX)

112 I can't see how giving heavy weapons to Al Qaeda could *possibly* go wrong. The Russian support *might* be a downstream effect of terminally stupid handling of Russia for several years - then again, given who's in charge, it might have been inevitable. It does seem that history, by definition, is something people do not learn from. Welcome to 1979.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile[/i][/b][/s][/u] at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (qyfb5)

113
Lest we forget we're still losing men by the handful every week in Afghanistan.

Why?

(that's a rhetorical question; please do not answer)

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (KwX0v)

114 87 Cochran I responded to you in the last thread but here we are in new thread. I'm a Pennsy girl originally I moved to Texas 7 years ago. Stoudt's makes kickass beer and has great microbrew fests. Posted by: DangerGirl @deadlyestrogen at May 30, 2013 03:30 PM (B2fm1) Eh, I'm not a microbrew kinda guy. I've always been a standard, American beer kinda guy. Bud, Coors, Busch and if I'm slummin, Miller.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at May 30, 2013 10:33 AM (da5Wo)

115 Seriously: Give both side a launch button for nukes targeted at the other side - press it and the other side becomes a mushroom cloud. Then point out that all of the nukes are coated in Pig lard so that whoever gets nuked will die an unclean death and be denied their 72 virgins.

Launch or die horribly.

If either side launches then nuke them both - if neither side launches go ahead and nuke them both anyway - not like anyones going to know.


I really think this is the optimum low cost solution to the Islamic problem.
 

Posted by: [/i] An Observation at May 30, 2013 10:34 AM (ylhEn)

116 Agreed, but I think that Assad is doomed no matter what the Russians do. It is therefore in Israel's best interest to make sure lots of Hezbollah fighters die. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 03:33 PM (O6Tmi) oh the more the merrier to die for sure, but I am not so sure Assad is doomed. He has no where to go, or for sure his "people" don't. This is a good old blood feud to the death and the Assad clan are mean motherfuckers

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:34 AM (9Bj8R)

117 But I don' think it is a valid assumption. We should just stay out of it, let whoever wins, win. Then deal with the results as we must.

Posted by: mrshad at May 30, 2013 03:31 PM (Xqfwb)

 

I would like to start a Syrian glass factory, to produce works of art comprised of genuine Syria.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:34 AM (4df7R)

118

Way to snap into action by posting a Hot Air link.



Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 03:23 PM (CJjw5)



-----
Dude... you just got that thing stitched up....


 

Posted by: fixerupper at May 30, 2013 03:27 PM (nELVU)

 

I've always been a fast healer.  Besides, sarcasm never sleeps.  He'll  either grow a thicker skin or  completely snap.  Either way, it will be entertaining.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 10:34 AM (CJjw5)

119 I am leery of getting too clever for our own good.

Posted by: Grey Fox

I think you have it at the end there.  And we shouldn't  pretend that we can pull it off without a hitch. Given our shitty track record of trying to do that kind of thing, we should know better.

I'm beginning to think the most dangerous motivation in our foreign policy is this totem of Stability. The world has never been 'stable' and it never will be.

It's insane hubris to try to enforce stability everywhere and for all time.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at May 30, 2013 10:34 AM (ZIcZg)

120

*thump thump thump*

 

Hmm.

 

Nope, the old Give-A-Shitometer  needle  doesn't move.

 

It may move if Assad attacks Israel.  I don't think that'd be  a particularly smart move by him, but  then again, that area of the world hasn't  produced  any Einsteins lately. 

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 30, 2013 10:34 AM (0HooB)

121 Do you want to go live there?

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 03:33 PM (GQ8sn)

 

Hell no.   That's why you send the   bleeding hearts    who don't know any     better:   "Let's all love each other!"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:35 AM (4df7R)

122 Stay out. Let's look at the SCOD's record in picking sides in the Middle East. Egypt=clusterfuck, Lybia=clusterfuck, Sudan=clusterfuck, Iraq=clusterfuck, Afghanistan=clusterfuck. Anyone else notice a patter here? Stay out!

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at May 30, 2013 03:33 PM (X+nFp)


----


So.... its like his bracketology of the Middle East ... no??

Posted by: fixerupper at May 30, 2013 10:35 AM (nELVU)

123 The problem if Assad emerges victorious is bloodlust; after victory, he may believe his army has the momentum required to settle any old scores. He may advance a war outside his borders to divert attention from internal strife. This is the rationale apply during pre-Obama times to contain this kind of instability.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 30, 2013 10:35 AM (Ec6wH)

124 I have microbrew snob family members. Annoyed that my beer choice is one more thing to scrabble for status over. Beer is just an alcohol delivery system to me. But now if I order the wrong one the snobs look at me like I just ordered some roadkill with a side of goat piss.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:35 AM (ZPrif)

125 Hell no. That's why you send the bleeding hearts who don't know any better: "Let's all love each other!"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at May 30, 2013 03:35 PM (4df7R)



Oh...


...cause I was about to give you the surprise/shock/sleepy face.



Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:36 AM (GQ8sn)

126 The problem with arming either side is, fundamentally, when said arms end up being used against us/civilians/our allies. This has pretty much happened every time we've done it over there -- with the exception of Israel (and people wonder why Israel is an ally.)

Posted by: RiverC at May 30, 2013 10:36 AM (El+h4)

127 The problem if Assad emerges victorious is bloodlust; after victory, he may believe his army has the momentum required to settle any old scores. He may advance a war outside his borders to divert attention from internal strife. ??? Problem? That's a benefit

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:36 AM (9Bj8R)

128 Oh...
...cause I was about to give you the surprise/shock/sleepy face.

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 03:36 PM (GQ8sn)

 

This one?

 

-__-

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:37 AM (4df7R)

129 @Flatbush

To be fair, some beer *is* goat piss.

Posted by: RiverC at May 30, 2013 10:37 AM (El+h4)

130 This one?

-__-




That's the sleepy face.

The other one.

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (GQ8sn)

131

Assad seems to now be winning this war, and, some thing, will win it within the next year or so..."

 

 

Can't be true:  Obama assured us that "Assad's days are numbered."

 

 

Posted by: LASue at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (pWeX5)

132 A "straight question?" Great, now we all look like a bunch of homophobes. Thanks for that.

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (N5ZQC)

133 Well, having Mubarak & Qaddafi ousted hasn't worked out to well for us. I choose whichever option gives the Muslim Brotherhood and AQ less power - is that a even a possible outcome? How about we kick up our arming and support of Israel a notch or two?

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (NDNbv)

134 Second look at becoming a colonial power? Let's clean out the savage tribes here first, please...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (fMiHM)

135 OT/

I used too much toilet paper in the bathroom at work. Stuck standing around the bowl watching and waiting for the eater level to drop so that I can try and flush agian.

Posted by: Serious Cat at May 30, 2013 03:07 PM (LnQr

-------

UPDATE/

Ugh!  I was too impatient and flushed 5 minutes early.  Caused a couple cups of poopy-water to overflow... had to spend next 30 minutes cleaning up my mess.  They really ought to put marks on the inside of toilet bowls marking when its safe to flush again.

Posted by: Serious Cat at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (UypUQ)

136 Can't be true: Obama assured us that "Assad's days are numbered."


Three guesses who's helping Assad.

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 10:38 AM (GQ8sn)

137 Looks like another proxy war to me. USA vs Russia, proxy combatants.

Posted by: navybrat at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (MCvta)

138 Someone please tackle this stupid sumbitch before he gets some American mother's kid killed for no good reason whatsoever.

Posted by: Jaws at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (4I3Uo)

139 Also pointed out that the ones who are stuck in the middle are the Syrian Christians, perceived by the rebels as protected by Assad. Perceived as an annoyance by all Muslims. they should have gotten out years ago. But in any event, I'd be in favor of an emergency airlift to free them if needed. But there are still crickets in the Christian World

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (9Bj8R)

140 I'm cool with both sides continuing to kill each other

Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (8sCoq)

141 I remember a discussion from grad school when my professor offered up "what if the US assassinated Saddam and then told the next guy to behave or he'd get the same fate?" While, theoretically, it would be cheaper to pull off, we wouldn't be guaranteed that the new regime would better for our interests. Although, Qadaffi saw what happened to Iraq in 2003 and didn't want the same thing to happen in Libya, so there is something to be said for that. Anyway, another problem with that policy is that it would require a long-standing committment to monitoring what goes on in Country X and responding if need be. And in our 30 second attention span culture, we have a hard time doing something like that. Instead we half-ass nation build for a decade.

Posted by: Mainah at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (659DL)

142 If we're going to help the rebels to prolong the war, couldn't we just nuke them all and speed up the process?

Posted by: CJR at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (Vqcn4)

143 Arabs killing Arabs is great, but warfare has one undeniable side effect: it creates veterans. The first gen of AQ were veterans of the Afghanistan's Soviet war. Tactical skills and weapon skills are not what we want them to aquire. Skills aquired at random street skirmishes (which is all this "war" is about) can't be used on regular battlefield, but aspiring Islamo Terrorists? Bad news.

Posted by: Lt. Col. SMOD SMODOVICH at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (oxCvv)

144 I think the play is for Obama to whisper to Assad I totally think you could take Israel and I wouldn't say a thing.

Posted by: blaster at May 30, 2013 10:39 AM (N5ZQC)

145 Probably the best thing that can happen is Assad stomping a lot of AQ but stopping short of dancing with Israel.

Of course, Israel has done some stealth bombing of Syria, so I understand the feeling.

Posted by: RiverC at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (El+h4)

146 The smallpox blanket thing is a myth. There's only one mention in the literature and that happened centuries after the great die off of the amerindians.

The idea that Americans committed genocide against the Indians is a viciuos blood libel and a lie.

Vast majority of the amerindian deaths occurred before the British even landed.

***



But it happened in video game, Assassin's Creed....so it HAS to be true.

//

Posted by: dananjcon at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (jvd3N)

147 Someone please tackle this stupid sumbitch before he gets some American mother's kid killed for no good reason whatsoever.

Posted by: Jaws at May 30, 2013 03:39 PM (4I3Uo)



Owebama?

Posted by: Sponge at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (xmcEQ)

148 Do a quick search on YouTube for "Syrian execution". You don't need to watch any of them, just note the disturbingly large number. That tells me three things: stay the hell out of there, these people are nuts, neither side can afford to lose because of the bloodbath to follow.

Posted by: spice at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (8PqRA)

149 "...I am not so sure Assad is doomed."

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 03:34 PM (9Bj8R)

Well, I'm not rushing to Vegas to put my savings on the rebels, but I think eventually Assad will be forced out by international pressure, hopefully not before getting his Hezbollah allies slaughtered by the rebels.

Although, if he goes, then Hezbollah will have to fight for its life just to get back to Lebanon.

I'm stocking up on popcorn.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (O6Tmi)

150 Say, what's Medea Benjamin's take on this? Just last week Obama said she's a voice we should listen to. ....And then we do the opposite of whatever she advocates for.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (NDNbv)

151 In short order we don't help anyone. It's like Egypt and Libya. The bastard you know is better than the bastard you don't know. Sure Mubarak, Quadaffy and Asshat are miserable. But in 2 out of three it looks like more fundi muzzies have taken over. If the "rebels" were made up of people who wanted a real shot at freedom and were not full of fundies, fine. Then maybe. But since they are all full of Muslim Brohood terrorists, NO Stay The Fuck Out!

Posted by: Minnfidel at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (/tc03)

152 We should fight wars where we can get some useful territory. Cuba, for example. A large island right off the coast is inherently a national security threat. Just ask China about Taiwan. It was stupid to ever let Cuba go.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (ZPrif)

153 I choose whichever option gives the Muslim Brotherhood and AQ less power - is that a even a possible outcome? How about we kick up our arming and support of Israel a notch or two? Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2013 03:38 PM (NDNbv) Assad is anti-muslim- his sect is not really muslim anyway and other muslims do not consider them muslims

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (9Bj8R)

154 >Someone please tackle this stupid sumbitch before he.... which stupid sumbitch? We have so many... so many...

Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 10:40 AM (8sCoq)

155 You shall know the tree by its fruit: Meghan McCain

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (Y5I9o)

156 Kidnappers are bad guys now?!?  Jeez,  since when?

Posted by: Dang at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (Hx2XA)

157 We came.  We saw.  We sold illegal arms to known terrorists in clear violation of UN treaties, resolutions and international law.

Posted by: John Fucking Kerry at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (UzPAd)

158 Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 30, 2013 03:34 PM (ZIcZg)


Sort of like we need to enforce a "stable temperature" to combat AGW when we don't have a fricking idea what the right stable temperature is, or should be, or ever was.

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (Cnqmv)

159 Has a third option of Nuking it from Orbit been discussed yet?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (wrS2o)

160

136 -

 

This does not strike me as particularly off-topic at all.  In fact, it may be as apt a description of our foreign policy  in  the WoT era as anything I've yet seen. 

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (TOk1P)

161 I've always been a fast healer. Besides, sarcasm never sleeps.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 03:34 PM (CJjw5)

This from a guy who spent an uncomfortable 20 minutes with jwest and a tube of Astroglide.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (O6Tmi)

162 >>No you can't. Not really. What ever Assad and his dad were, they basically kept the peace and the Golan was quite. Sure they stirred up trouble in Lebanon when it was in their interest, but having the islamist in charge in damascus is in no one's interest.<<



Well, let me try.  I agree with what you said about the devil we know and the fact that there has been stability of a sort over the last decades.  However, Syria is a client state of Iran.  And Iran is now neck deep in trying to keep Assad in power.  As is Hezbollah now.  The crux of my argument that Assad's winning is worse for Israel is that Iran, Hezbollah, and Syria do not intend for the relative quiet to continue.  I believe it then they say Israel must be wiped from the map.   Assad's regime will be better armed, better organized, and have more dangerous allies than would the Islamic gaggle.   Iran also comes out of an Assad win validated in their foreign military adventure, built in stature in the region, and emboldened to do more.  To a lesser and more regional degree - Hezbollah too.


Having said all that, I am not convinced that is the winning argument.  You may be correct in your opinion of what is better. 

Posted by: Muad'dib at May 30, 2013 10:41 AM (KjlbF)

163
Common sense tells me that Assad would do anything just to get back to the way things were. Anything.

The smart play is to make a deal with Assad (who is the slightly stronger player, anyway) before the Russians do.

We end up with a tamed-ish Syrian leader with an already organized govt, and in the process we kill lots of jihadis. Also: no nation building, no new Syrian govt.

It's Win-Win-Win-Win.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (052zE)

164 Cuba, for example. A large island right off the coast is inherently a national security threat. Just ask China about Taiwan. It was stupid to ever let Cuba go. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 03:40 PM (ZPrif) I got first dibs on the baseball franchise in Cuba

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (9Bj8R)

165 And by the way, what the hell is McCain's problem? This fucker should be the last one to want us involved in someone else's fuckups. But nooooooooo! It's seems he wants us in everything all the time. Barky is the worst by far in my lifetime but what the hell would we be involved in if this bloodlusting super freak had won?

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (X+nFp)

166 Haven't we seen this movie already? We involve ourselves in these things and wind up outsmarting ourselves. Yes, Assad could conceivably reassert control, but he's still the head of a minority faction (the Alawites) who'll be ruling a very unhappy majority of Sunnis. So even if he gets a temporary respite, he'll have far too much to do in his own country to bother with anyone else. A hands off approach is the best one--this is especially true when the hands involved are fools like Obama and McCain! This is not the age of Acheson, Dulles and Marshall. Hell, we don't even have James Baker here.

Posted by: Schaeffer at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (rqazu)

167 Say, what's Medea Benjamin's take on this? one night with a slapped cock makes a hard man humble

Posted by: debit at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (I88Jc)

168 I am indifferent to everyone's fate over there unless it directly impacts me. Life is cruel enough without borrowing the troubles of others.

Posted by: toby928 at May 30, 2013 03:19 PM (evdj2) 


it's not only that, it is Either  winner will still instigate and aid terrorists.

Posted by: willow at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (nqBYe)

169 Oh God. I can't stand the sound of McCain's voice. Even reading his name is getting unpleasant. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 03:18 PM (O6Tmi) I heard him on the radio the other day berating Mike Lee. I didn't know it was McCain at the time because I hadn't heard him in a while. I was thinking to myself "sheesh, what a lib." When Lee responded and I realized it was McCain, I laughed my ass off thinking "well, that figures."

Posted by: Mainah at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (659DL)

170 Observation one:  I remember the Lebanese Civil War that never really ended.  Syria is a big Lebanon with more neighbors and big piles of weapons.

Observation two:  We have a really, really bad track record when pulling corks out of bottles in the Middle East and trying to pick winners/losers/non-lunatics. 

Observation three:  Barack Obama is President of the United States, John Kerry is the Secretary of State, Chuck Hagel is the Secretary of Defense, Susan Rice is the de facto NSA, and Valerie Jarrett is their boss.

Observation four:  John McCain is somewhere between "geezer" and "addled geezer."


Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 30, 2013 10:42 AM (zJi7o)

171 Bomb both sides, small American flags for the rest.

Alternatively: NO WAR FOR OIL! BUCK FUSH!

For a party that hates war the Democrats sure want to start a lot more of them.

Posted by: Gaff at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (jPS2y)

172

The smallpox blanket thing is a myth. There's only one mention in the
literature and that happened centuries after the great die off of the
amerindians.

 

Oh, I know it's a myth.  But it's a useful metaphor    if nothing else.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (4df7R)

173 Pretty sure it was Ward Churchill who started the whole 'American gov't purposely killed Indians with small pox infected blankets' meme. It's not true.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (NDNbv)

174 At some point we might need to carve out a Christian Israel for the middle-eastern Christians.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (ZPrif)

175 Assad is anti-muslim- his sect is not really muslim anyway and other muslims do not consider them muslims

Every Muslim sect considers every other sect to be "not really Muslim".


Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (SY2Kh)

176

I got first dibs on the baseball franchise in Cuba

 

I got dibs on the 'Cuba Libre' chick in the Bacardi commercial!

Posted by: garrett at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (IEgq0)

177 I see it this way.

Assad is an old school bad guy, kind of bond villain type. Sure he's going to try and build a giant magnifying glass and harness the power of the sun. And yes he's going to threaten to melt the statue of liberty unless we give him three minutes in heaven w/ our sexy american girlfriends.  Really I don't mind if he gets sea bass w/ lasers attached to their freakin heads as long as we aren't losing ours.

The Jihadist on the other hand make less w/ the Dr. Evil and more with the buffalo bill. Crazy and playing for keeps.

Assad wants to be in more movies so he isn't going to actually kill bond. He wants to appear to be killing bond so he can sit at the crescent table of the conventional bad boys of the middle east. Devil you know etc etc.

Posted by: defjavidson at May 30, 2013 10:43 AM (L1h9A)

178 Yes.... secretly funnel them bullets and guns.... to prolong the fighting and get more of them killed.  Probably not a good idea to obviously take arms against the Syrian regime, however.

Posted by: Def at May 30, 2013 10:44 AM (4x8W0)

179 The answer is always "Fuck you, John McCain!"

Posted by: Clownf*cker at May 30, 2013 10:44 AM (CGjum)

180 No need to supply any arms to either side. Drop DVD's of season one of Girls. This alone will cause spontaneous head assploding the likes of which has never been seen in the history of the Wooooooorld.



Posted by: dananjcon at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (jvd3N)

181 Yes.

In the same way Colin Powell should have let the Iranian troops continue to come out into the desert to be killed, rather than moving quickly into Baghdad and declaring victory just because they "captured" the territory. Like it or not, victory is achieved when your enemy no longer has the will to fight. Generally, this has been achieved through massive loss of life on the losing side.

Posted by: Gerry at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (839aH)

182

It still aggravates me that our involvement in Libya was based on the lie of helping to protect the slaughter of innocent civilians.

 

This was the true war for oil.   Ghadafi  likely indicated he was going to go back on deals he had made with France and Britain.   

Posted by: polynikes at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (m2CN7)

183 There is a reason there is a concentration of brutal dictators in the Middle East. That Arab spring hasn't worked out too well to this point. Two great options huh? Turn it all to glass.

Posted by: Golfman In NC at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (tAa9K)

184

I don't know.

 

I do know that McCain is a bumbling ego-maniac.  I wonder if he called the kidnappers "My friends"?  I also read where Lurch Kerry is doing a bang up job overseas as well.

Posted by: cheri at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (G+Wff)

185 Lebanese Civil War mostly ended. The muzzies won. My lebanese christian friends can tell you all about it. The remaining lebanese christians have some excellent mountain territory. Good for defense. But they are demographically swamped in the country and it will only get worse. And if they carve out a separate country they'll be landlocked.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (ZPrif)

186 Supply both sides with homing mortars.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (2iU3x)

187 If the rebels start to win, do we arm Assad?Posted by: zsasz at May 30, 2013 03:26 PM (MMC8r)I think the Russians have that covered. And I don't think we want a proxy-war with Russia at the moment. We've kind of got a full plate as it is.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (/PCJa)

188

136 -

This does not strike me as particularly off-topic at all.

 

It's the lack of compelling, general interest comments like 136 that prevents AllenG from becoming a blogger of note.

 

 

Posted by: jwest at May 30, 2013 10:45 AM (u2a4R)

189 Having said all that, I am not convinced that is the winning argument. You may be correct in your opinion of what is better. Posted by: Muad'dib at May 30, 2013 03:41 PM (KjlbF) In the end Assad only cares about Assad and he knows no matter how much he makes kissy kissy with Iran and Hezbellah, he is straddling a fine line with not pissing off Israel to much, because in the end, if Israel wants, they can crush Assad and Syria long before his pals Iran and Hezbellah can come to his aid. It's the same game he and his dad before him played.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (9Bj8R)

190 I got first dibs on the baseball franchise in Cuba

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 03:42 PM (9Bj8R)

Fine. I'll take the top five left-handed starters.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (O6Tmi)

191

Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be a blogger and just commented for the last three hours.

 

 

I totally get that. Commenting is very prestigious.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball, Award Winning Blog Commentator at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (yn6XZ)

192 >Every Muslim sect considers every other sect to be "not really Muslim". libertarians are the same- they just don't car-bomb each other- they flame each other at Reason

Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (8sCoq)

193 No. No deals. Nuke them. They sponsor terror groups. Eliminate their country to the bedrock, start over with algae.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (Up4f+)

194

Wait a minute.  They are ALL good guys in Syria.

Right, Valerie?

Posted by: Barry Soetoro at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (wAQA5)

195 Daddy thinks my box of sex toys are just a "science" project.

Posted by: MegaJugs McCain at May 30, 2013 10:46 AM (dvRYt)

196 "Vast majority of the amerindian deaths occurred before the British even landed." another example of america's evilness isn't true? to bad it's taught in every public school in the country.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (HEa5q)

197 Rand Paul had a good article on this today, running through our stellar history of decision making in the Middle East. Also pointed out that the ones who are stuck in the middle are the Syrian Christians, perceived by the rebels as protected by Assad. Perceived as an annoyance by all Muslims. *** thanks. I just read it. I didn't know about STSA.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (DPdf7)

198 Observation four: John McCain is somewhere between "geezer" and "addled geezer." and advanced dementia patient/


Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 30, 2013 03:42 PM (zJi7o)


FIFY

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (Cnqmv)

199

"It's a question-question."

 

Okay, well here's the answer: It is total hubris to think that you can finely calibrate the outcome of a war by dabbling here and there, arming or embargoing or sanctioning this side or that. This is the kind of mindset that produces 12-year wars in strategically insignificant backwaters like A-stan.

 

Or worse, spends American lives and treasures for a win in Iraq by....Iran.

 

Once the dogs of war are unleashed, all bets are off. Warfare is the realm of unpredictability, non-linearity, and loss of control. It's history is rife with sudden reversals, strategic suprise, escalation, increased determination to absorb costs long after strategic gain, and quagmire. Read Clausewitz, for crying out loud.

 

It's absolute foolishness to go into a war without going all-in to win and win big. Otherwise, stay the hell out of it.

 

Our enemies are the jihadists, and they seem to be fighting on both sides of this. So while it's intellectually appealing to try to keep the thing going, it's absurd and misplaced faith to think that the U.S. government, of all institutions, can play this subtly to some kind of win for us. Fat chance.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (5RUlF)

200 Second look at becoming a colonial power?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at May 30, 2013 03:31 PM (4df7R)

 Got my vote, we should be going around planting United States of Earth flags.

Posted by: Berserker at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (FMbng)

201 Help reduce senility in Congress -- support a constitutional amendment for congressional term limits.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (LrLBx)

202 My friends, you have nothing to fear from a Jihadi armed with shoulder-fired rockets and anti-tank weaponry.

Posted by: Juan McCain at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (IEgq0)

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 10:47 AM (Cnqmv)

204 Shia and Sunni agree the Alawites aren't just wrong about Islam, but aren't even muslims in the first place. An analogy might Catholics + Protestants vs Mormons. Some theological disagreements bend, some break.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (ZPrif)

205

Observation three: Barack Obama is President of the United States, John Kerry is the Secretary of State, Chuck Hagel is the Secretary of Defense, Susan Rice is the de facto NSA, and Valerie Jarrett is their boss.

 

That is the most frightening thing I've read in  a long time.

Posted by: polynikes at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (m2CN7)

206 If we're going to help the rebels to prolong the war, couldn't we just nuke them all and speed up the process?

Posted by: CJR

 

Oh for the love of duh

Posted by: Lt. Ripley at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (SFs98)

207 At some point we might need to carve out a Christian Israel for the middle-eastern Christians.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 03:43 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

Let's get    Jordan to accept the Palestinians -- who should be in Jordan anyway, but they all hate each other over there -- then give the Christians the region where the Palis are currently squatting.  

 

It'd be a start.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/i][/b] at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (4df7R)

208 Remember those dumbasses who decided to go hiking in Iran? They all lived in Syria.

Posted by: Waldo at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (dHIHO)

209 Maybe we could make a deal with the rebels - We'll send them some weaponry but they have to keep McCain.

Posted by: cheri at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (G+Wff)

210 This has clusterfuck written all over it from every angle.

The Obama administration is incapable of executing any clever 9 dimensional chess games that might provide a positive outcome.

Posted by: @PurpAv[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 30, 2013 10:48 AM (giblS)

211 No, there are no good guys in this matter, not those that count anyways. Time
tried their best to whitewash the cannibal commander, and he's nowhere near the worst.

Posted by: Dolphins Amalgated Local 220 at May 30, 2013 10:49 AM (Jsiw/)

212 I got first dibs on the baseball franchise in Cuba Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 03:42 PM (9Bj8R) Fine. I'll take the top five left-handed starters. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 03:46 PM (O6Tmi) Ah of course for the first 5 years Cuba gets the " Home advantage" . All native born players. Sorry charlie

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:49 AM (9Bj8R)

213 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 03:43 PM (ZPrif)

How about the West Bank?


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 30, 2013 10:49 AM (O6Tmi)

214
/raises eyebrows

We'll send them all bullets made of chocolate!

Posted by: Soothsayer Biden at May 30, 2013 10:49 AM (KwX0v)

215 "McCain says we can identify the good guys in Syria -- after he unwittingly meets with kidnappers"

This needs to be brought up constantly and ruthlessly every time from now on that McQueeg is out there touting the wonders of Amnesty II: The Revenge.

The guy is foolishly overconfident in himself. When in reality he just doesn't know what he's talking about, and his promises on any subject should not be trusted.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 30, 2013 10:49 AM (gqT4g)

216 Our enemies are the jihadists, and they seem to be fighting on both sides of this. So while it's intellectually appealing to try to keep the thing going, it's absurd and misplaced faith to think that the U.S. government, of all institutions, can play this subtly to some kind of win for us. Fat chance. I don't think we need to "play this subtly" at all. Like I said: Arm both sides. On a cash-only, POD basis. About the best we can hope for is a Syria so shattered by civil war that it's unable to be a threat to anyone for at least a generation- no matter who "wins."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (/PCJa)

217 I took the plunge.


I just bought Newsweek.

Posted by: eleven at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (KXm42)

218
We need to develop a highly lethal weapon with an embedded GPS that causes it to explode if it is taken out of the Middle East.

Then flood the region with them. All sides.

Posted by: cool breeze at May 30, 2013 03:24 PM (A+/8k)









GPS is too complex. Rig it to explode immediately when you pull the trigger.

Just as a side note, it was a common SpecWar thing in Vietnam to drop an AK magazine in the jungle where it would be found by the VC. The rounds had all been pulled and the powder replaced with C4 explosive in the cartridge case.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (TIIx5)

219 Jordan has good reasons to hate the palis. They attempted an assassination of their king and a coup and so they kicked their asses out. At least the fuckers have slowed down on those fucking lame "key" stories. I have keys to most of the places where I lived. So what?

Posted by: Waldo at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (dHIHO)

220 No nations that have water parks have ever gone to war with each other. Open up a "Muhammad's Maelstrom!" in Damascus...complete with Red Sea wave pool and the "Line of Death." Just don't get your abayas tangled.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (Ec6wH)

221

The always pretty much awesome Michael Young, opinion editor of the Beirut Daily Star, (  http://bit.ly/18zA3xc 

says Elliot Abrams has it right, and we would be nuts to not stay involved on the side of the "rebels". 

http://bit.ly/18cR7Zv

 

My own view is "meh, wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to get involved in every civil fucking war", but I guess I'm semi-open to persuasive arguments.

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (B5y+v)

222 Kidnappers are bad guys now?!? Jeez, since when?

Posted by: Dang at May 30, 2013 03:41 PM (Hx2XA)

*


Dayum...there goes my plans for the weekend. 




Posted by: dananjcon at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (jvd3N)

223 Posted by: polynikes at May 30, 2013 03:48 PM (m2CN7)

I keep thinking that Biden is next in the line of succession.  Add that to the list for sleepless nights!

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 10:50 AM (Cnqmv)

224

We should take our cue from WWE:


Wait until one wins, then sneak up from behind- and hit him with a chair.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (yn6XZ)

225 What we should do NOW is evacuate all the attractive people.

I'll bet you anything there is totally hittable ass in Syria.

I'll even bet that some of the women are hot too.

Posted by: I take back all the shitty things I've said about this shitty blog at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (qxcKC)

226 I just bought Newsweek.

I love when I find change on the ground in a parking lot.

Posted by: @PurpAv[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (giblS)

227 Rick Tempest - who asks the only straight question on the internet

Posted by: Heralder at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (+xmn4)

228

167 -

 

The heck you say!  Why, we supported Saddam Hussein in his little fight with the Iranians, didn't we?  That turned out well... didn't it? 

 

And what about those Afghan rebels we supported against the mean old Soviet Union?  Those guys remained friends for life!

 

Yes, let's play chess with  insane muzzies.  What could possibly go wrong? 

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (TOk1P)

229 The amerindian die off was a great tragedy. Only way to have avoided it was no contact until the 20th century after we developed vaccines. And even that probably wouldn't have worked. My understanding is even the common cold was incredibly virulent for the amerindian populations. They just had no exposure and no immunity to eurasian diseases and got just destroyed as wave after wave of disease - smallpox, chicken pox, mumps, measles, polio, the flu, the common cold, etc, etc. It started the moment the spaniards and portuguese made contact.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (ZPrif)

230 Send them KFC chicken. They'll get Type II Diabetes and they will all die.

Posted by: Moobs at May 30, 2013 10:51 AM (rCS6C)

231 We have to support whichever side has gays in their military.

Posted by: Barry Soetoro at May 30, 2013 10:52 AM (wAQA5)

232

"If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?"

 

No. Although I don't mind Baathists and Jihadis killing each other in lots and droves, there is a substantial Christian population in Syria (as Rand Paul pointed out in a recent CNN opinion piece), as well as a large number of other displaced and/or at-risk civilians--mainly women, children, old people. Prolonging the war by feeding arms to Al Queda-like insurgents is a morally unsupportable move since prolonging the war translates to facilitating the murder of noncombatants.

 

Assad (and possibly the rebels) are using nerve gas and (probably) other agents. Nerve gas does not discriminate.

Posted by: troyriser at May 30, 2013 10:52 AM (vtiE6)

233 I just bought Newsweek.

Posted by: eleven at May 30, 2013 03:50 PM (KXm42)


Audible laughter.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 30, 2013 10:52 AM (zJi7o)

234 This is the same question faced by Allenby (and the British [and French!] diplomatic corps) during the Arab Revolt. You are free to think whatever you like of "T.E. Lawrence" as an agent, an officer, or a human being, but he was a fair-to-middling writer, and I have scarcely found a M.E. issue in 40 years that wasn't already old in "Seven Pillars."

 

Posted by: comatus at May 30, 2013 10:52 AM (JNUY4)

235 166And by the way, what the hell is McCain's problem? This fucker should be the last one to want us involved in someone else's fuckups. But nooooooooo! It's seems he wants us in everything all the time. Barky is the worst by far in my lifetime but what the hell would we be involved in if this bloodlusting super freak had won?

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at May 30, 2013 03:42 PM (X+nFp)

---

I hate to say it, but I think McCain's starting to turn into Jimmy Carter...

 

Posted by: junior at May 30, 2013 10:52 AM (UWFpX)

236 No nations that have water parks have ever gone to war with each other. Open up a "Muhammad's Maelstrom!" in Damascus...complete with Red Sea wave pool and the "Line of Death." Just don't get your abayas tangled. Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at May 30, 2013 03:50 PM (Ec6wH) Israel has a water park on the Sea of Galilee

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 10:53 AM (9Bj8R)

237 I say we do whatever makes Obama look more like a buffoon.. which is probably either option since there is no good option.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 30, 2013 10:53 AM (f9c2L)

238 I'll bet you anything there is totally hittable ass in Syria. Don't need more donkeys.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 30, 2013 10:54 AM (YIZv0)

239 Time to kick the prick on the ice flow Eskimo style. Time to go to sea Johnny. Can't you morons in AZ find someone good to primary this fossil?

Posted by: Minnfidel at May 30, 2013 10:54 AM (/tc03)

240 Send McCain over there on the Forrestal.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 30, 2013 10:54 AM (RwHQb)

241

I just bought Newsweek.

 

 

There went AllenG's shot.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at May 30, 2013 10:55 AM (yn6XZ)

242

It's easy to say arm the rebels. But there is the logistics component of it. How does one get the arms there safely. What kind of arms can be provided that will help them but not later be used for terrorism (stingers).

If it can be done without risking US lives and is limted to guns/bullets...(now i pause to determine if a can really write the predicate that means more dead civilians.)

No. Do not materially co-operate with evil. The enemy of my enemy is my friend (Stalin-Hitler). But i think we just have two enemies here.

Sometimes i dispair that what we have in many parts of the Middle East are simply ruined people (the palestuinians) whose culture is so polluted that i expect nothing but evil from it. Like Sauron creating Orcs from the Elves.

 

 

 

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at May 30, 2013 10:55 AM (SO2Q8)

243

Seems like most of these intervention things turn out like shit anyway and you have to deal with the outcome. Let it settle on its own and save yourself some heartache and money.

Posted by: The Jackhole at May 30, 2013 10:55 AM (nTgAI)

244 The EU is arming rebels as well as local Middle East interests and Russia Iran arming Assad We are too far down the road to jump in now publicly, even if we were arming original rebels via Benghazi on downlow before. McCain is a dangerous fool (like the Carter of the right but still holding power) Btw please call ur critter home at local offices, and tell them No Amnesty

Posted by: ginaswo at May 30, 2013 10:55 AM (Zkb5M)

245 The heck you say! Why, we supported Saddam Hussein in his little fight with the Iranians, didn't we? That turned out well... didn't it?

And what about those Afghan rebels we supported against the mean old Soviet Union? Those guys remained friends for life!

Yes, let's play chess with insane muzzies. What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2013 03:51 PM (TOk1P)

 

Actually we can't say for sure but if you do the game theory analysis , if we had not intervened it could have turned out worse  in the long run.    For instance, the fall of the Soviet Union would have happened much, much later.   

Posted by: polynikes at May 30, 2013 10:55 AM (m2CN7)

246 If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting? Yes...just like in "A Private Little War"

Posted by: bocephus at May 30, 2013 10:56 AM (3Crtn)

247 I think John McCain wishes he were a Roman Senator.

At least then his desire to invade Syria and North Africa would make sense.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at May 30, 2013 10:56 AM (TpXEI)

248 I just bought Newsweek.


There went AllenG's shot.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at May 30, 2013 03:55 PM (yn6XZ)

 

MWahahahaha  !

Posted by: The Jackhole at May 30, 2013 10:56 AM (nTgAI)

249 It's easy to say arm the rebels. But there is the logistics component of it. How does one get the arms there safely. Ask F&F Holder.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 30, 2013 10:56 AM (YIZv0)

250

Enough with the fucking LinkedIn requests.  I don't do that shit.  What possible value could I add to your network, Dad?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 10:56 AM (CJjw5)

251

@217

 

Like I said, in warfare, anything less than all-in IS playing around subtly.

 

Sure, go ahead an arm them, and enjoy all the crap that gets fired back at you 5 years later.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at May 30, 2013 10:57 AM (5RUlF)

252
Remember the olden days (2002-200 when U.S. involvement in the Middle East was the cause of 9/11?


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 30, 2013 10:57 AM (39q3n)

253 There went AllenG's shot. I don't care if I own publishing venue. I'd just love to get paid for my opinion.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 10:57 AM (/PCJa)

254 My friends, you have nothing to fear from a Jihadi armed with shoulder-fired rockets and anti-tank weaponry.

Posted by: Juan McCain at May 30, 2013 03:47 PM (IEgq0)

**


My Friends, you have nothing to fear from the blankets the white man has provided us for warmth and shelter.

Posted by: John SmilingCooCooBird McCain at May 30, 2013 10:57 AM (jvd3N)

255 USSR vs Afghanistan -- didn't care Iran vs Iraq -- didn't care Britain vs Argentina -- didn't care Syria vs Rebels -- don't care I suppose I should, but I don't. Having a senile old Senator from like the number one retirement state in the nation over there isn't changing my mind -- and actually moving me more into the 'totally don't care' column. McCain once ( 08 ) bragged about sitting on an aircraft carrier in the cockpit ready to start WWIII. I'm beyond wondering about his issues.

Posted by: Regular Moron [/i] at May 30, 2013 10:57 AM (U2UQk)

256 Just got home from work and the first thing I want to say is that the nicest thing I have to say about John McCain is that he can go fuck himself.

Posted by: DangerGirl @deadlyestrogen at May 30, 2013 10:58 AM (GrtrJ)

257 I don't get the Press' hypocrisy. They say Assad has murdered 70k of his own people. How is he doing anything the US Govt. wouldn't do if the people raised arms against it?

Posted by: Ook? at May 30, 2013 10:58 AM (OQpzc)

258 The guy is foolishly overconfident in himself. When in reality he just doesn't know what he's talking about, and his promises on any subject should not be trusted.

Posted by: torquewrench

 

This.  We having nothing to fear from an Obama presidency but those Tea Party Republicans are bad!

What a f'ing dunce.  He and his strictly dickly daughter seriously need to go away.

Posted by: cheri at May 30, 2013 10:58 AM (G+Wff)

259 Whatever happened to the WH's red-line on use of chemical weapons?

Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (VIaw0)

260

Obama has already replaced two dictators in Egypt and Libya and replaced them with fundamentalist fucksticks. And now he's working on number 3 in trying to get rid of Asshat. Not saying that none of them don't deserve it. But replacing them with something much worse is not a good outcome. Stay out, let em wipe each other out.

Posted by: Minnfidel at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (/tc03)

261 The Saudis and the Qataris basically used Lebanese cutouts for the rebels in Syria, of course they pick who gets most of the weapons, Al Nusra, Ahr Shams, you know the moderates.

Posted by: Dolphins Amalgated Local 220 at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (Jsiw/)

262 We should take our cue from WWE:


Wait until one wins, then sneak up from behind- and hit him with a chair.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball

 

 

 

Word!

Posted by: Paul Orndorff at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (SFs98)

263 Syrian cooking is my fave.

Posted by: Meghan McCain, Tomorrow's Conservative Today at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (8ZskC)

Posted by: Paul Orndorff at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (SFs98)

265 I don't care if I own publishing venue. I'd just love to get paid for my opinion.

 

 

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 03:57 PM (/PCJa)

 

---------------------

 

Start your  own blog, dude.  I'll link you, then the fuckin uniques will start rolling in and you  can start selling some ad space.

 

Oh, and be sure to come back here and let us know when it's up.  Several times a day,  just until we get used to the idea.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 10:59 AM (CJjw5)

266 >Whatever happened to the WH's red-line on use of chemical weapons? it wasn't red red

Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (8sCoq)

267

246 -

 

That's probably true, and it means the right choice was most likely the one we made, but it also does not change the fact that if you go to bed with insane muzzies, eventually they will slit your throat.   They can't help it, it's who they are. 

 

So with there being no Soviet  Union for us to oppose, what advantage do we have to getting ourselves involved in the shenanigans of  these people today? 

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (TOk1P)

268

McCain?  I thought he went the way of Abe Vigoda.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (EGPJQ)

269 How is he doing anything the US Govt. wouldn't do if the people raised arms against it? You're not supposed to ask that question. See, the Press would like to live by the fiction that if there were ever a genuine* revolt against the US Government, the Government would just acquiesce to all demands. *- Of course, they also get to define "genuine" so that when that *doesn't* happen, they can say "well that revolt isn't genuine."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (/PCJa)

270 Re:248 And Barack Obama wishes he was Augustus. While Bill Clinton just wants to be Bacchus. Mission accomplished. Sure to be comfort to those of our troops caught up in sexual harassment witch-hunts, to know that as long as you are useful to Democrats, you won't be made into a pariah.

Posted by: T. at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (ILIHz)

271 Whatever happened to the WH's red-line on use of chemical weapons? They walked it back so much, they ran out of red sharpies.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (YIZv0)

272

My dear family,

 

 

 I think next week I’ll be able to send some more money as I may have extra work. I joined LinkedIn and my friend Patty promised me a blow job.

Posted by: Navin Johnson at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (yn6XZ)

273 "McCain says we can identify the good guys in Syria -- after he unwittingly meets with kidnappers" *** Considering McCain's endorsement of Obama in 2008, I'll just have to consider the source.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (DPdf7)

274

I'll even bet that some of the women are hot too.
----

Syria is a desert after all. I know i'd be hot there.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (SO2Q8)

275 Ace,

While I don't like Assad - isn't he really preferable to whoever would come after him?

Recent history shows us that it is extremely unlikely that some moderate, secular faction gains control of Syria and changes it into an open, western friendly country.

Instead, it is more likely that islamic extremists gain control and make Syria even more anti-western than it now is with the added bonus of them being crazy, where Assad is mostly a rational actor.

So, I'm for simply letting this all play out and letting Assad regain control of Syria - with the added bonus that once he is fully back in charge, he will go on an extremist /al queda killing spree.

Sure, he'll remain a thorn in our side and he'll keep supporting various terrorist groups, etc.  But he'll be less of a thorn than some Al Queda group taking power in Syria (and, by the way, gaining access to Syria's chemical weapons).

So, again, I say do nothing, let it play itself out and actually root for Assad as the least bad option.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at May 30, 2013 11:00 AM (sOx93)

276 If Bashir attacks Israel (and isn't just talking tough to get more Iranian backing), his slight military advantage against the jihadis will be out the window.

Posted by: jd at May 30, 2013 11:01 AM (MXyBs)

277 OT classiest First Lady evah.


First lady Michelle Obama debuted a new motto as she hit DNC fundraisers in New York on Wednesday.

“We need you to keep on writing those checks, and if you haven’t maxed out, you know, what’s my motto?  Max out,” she told attendees at the DNC’s LGBT Gala on Manhattan’s Upper East Side. “Let’s say it together: Max out. And if you’ve maxed out, get your friends to max out. It’s a very — maxing out.

“Sounds kind of baller, too — maxing out. Everyone here should be maxed out. “

— Michelle Obama at a New York fundraiser

Posted by: steevy at May 30, 2013 11:01 AM (9XBK2)

278 I looked around and I find zero fucks to give about Syria.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 30, 2013 11:01 AM (X6akg)

279 I looked around and I find zero fucks to give about Syria. Check behind the leftovers in the fridge.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 11:02 AM (/PCJa)

280 Well, we'd need base to run the weapons to Syria. Perhaps a nearby country. With a seaport. Not a capital city, too obvious. How about Benghazi?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 30, 2013 11:02 AM (ZPrif)

281 >>>it wasn't red red Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 04:00 PM (8sCoq) I just found an RT article. Russian press says it turned "pink." Our foreign policy is becoming a joke.

Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 11:02 AM (VIaw0)

282 Assad is evil but less evil than the islamonazis. If he wins he will still be weaker than before and the non Sunnis can live to breathe another day.

Posted by: Avi at May 30, 2013 11:02 AM (Gx3Fe)

283 Btw please call ur critter home at local offices, and tell them No Amnesty *** I'd be happy to but since Rubio is my Senator and Corinne Brown is my Congresscritter...

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 30, 2013 11:02 AM (DPdf7)

284 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 03:59 PM (CJjw5) That was hurtful.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 11:02 AM (/PCJa)

285 The birds in the desert eat only flesh, and there is no wind.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 30, 2013 11:03 AM (bYRF2)

286 273... You owe me a keyboard

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 30, 2013 11:03 AM (EGPJQ)

287 51 Or maybe we could just send them blankets.   -------   I don't think we have enough smallpox for that. Might have to breed some more.  

Posted by: Largely Irrelevant Assault Citizen Anachronda at May 30, 2013 11:03 AM (FzhYM)

288 Um, SEQUESTER. We can't even have Air Force flyover for the Academy graduates. Fuck Syria and all its goat-fucking inhabitants.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262 at May 30, 2013 11:03 AM (UU0OF)

289 Check behind the leftovers in the fridge.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 04:02 PM (/PCJa)


We ate out last night.

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 30, 2013 11:03 AM (X6akg)

290 Yes...just like in "A Private Little War"

Posted by: bocephus at May 30, 2013 03:56 PM (3Crtn)

---

You realize the carnage that can be released with a few flintlocks?

 

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at May 30, 2013 11:04 AM (SO2Q8)

291 Assad's regime is neither Sunni or Shia. Rebels are AQ-affiliated and funded by wahhabi/salafist states like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Personally I'd be just fine with Assad staying. And even if I cared, states like Saudi and Qatar have more than enough money to keep it going for a long time. They could afford to spend more on the rebels than Syrias whole GDP. They've gotten enough money from us already. The only advantage I see to getting involved is that it will piss the American people off even more, stigmatizing Obama with a Bush-like war record, making someone like rand Paul popular to people on both sides of the isle.

Posted by: Andrew at May 30, 2013 11:04 AM (HS3dy)

292 As a general rule for determining how to figure out the best action? Do the opposite of what the Obama Administration wants to do. I'm very serious. Really. It's an excellent way to do the right thing. McCain is reliably (although not always) wrong also.

Posted by: mare at May 30, 2013 11:04 AM (A98Xu)

293

“Sounds kind of baller, too — maxing out. Everyone here should be maxed out. “


— Michelle Obama at a New York fundraiser


 

Posted by: steevy at May 30, 2013 04:01 PM (9XBK2)

 

------------------------

 

What  a fucking embarassment to have this  vulgar, grasping climber getting her fucking stink all over the White House. 

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 11:04 AM (CJjw5)

294 Fuck Moochelle, How irresponsible. Let's see her give her millions of dollars to her fellow assholes.

Posted by: Waldo at May 30, 2013 11:05 AM (dHIHO)

295

Folks, I recommend you do whatever Michelle says.   

 

 

Posted by: President For Life Obama at May 30, 2013 11:05 AM (B5y+v)

296


We ate out last night.

 

 

I did that a lot when I was in college.

Posted by: Gillian Anderson at May 30, 2013 11:05 AM (IEgq0)

297 I'm with George Washington (and the commenters above). Jihadis invariably breed more jihads, no matter how much they kill each other. They're like cockroaches... that fuck goats and blow themselves up. I see no point in supporting either side, even with the purpose of encouraging them to kill each other. Somehow they seem to manage to breed at a faster rate than they blow themselves up (with the whole goat thing, I can't figure out how that's possible, but somehow they manage). Unless we're going to nuke them from orbit and turn the whole place into glass... followed shortly by Disney World... for the purpose of keeping them from bring there war to us, I say we stay out of it. There is no end game, short of total annihilation of these scumbags, that in any way benefits us. Further, no one in government or the 52% has the stomach to do the job that needs to be done or support a conventionally achieved result, so the cost in bombs, American bodies, and cash is not worth it.

Posted by: Damiano at May 30, 2013 11:06 AM (BzT5x)

298 That's probably true, and it means the right choice was most likely the one we made, but it also does not change the fact that if you go to bed with insane muzzies, eventually they will slit your throat. They can't help it, it's who they are.

So with there being no Soviet Union for us to oppose, what advantage do we have to getting ourselves involved in the shenanigans of these people today?

Posted by: BurtTC at May 30, 2013 04:00 PM (TOk1P)

 

I think in this case we have to consider Israel in addition to our energy supplies in the ME.  This is not saying I support any intervention but these are things that effect us long term.  Again its game theory and I'm not knowledgable enough to enter in all the data to come up with the various scenarios.

 

With the facts I do have,  I have opposed intervention in both Libya and Egypt and have not changed that opinion with regard to Syria.  One of those factors is the fact that their is no longer a Soviet Union and the fact that I believe Islamic fundalmentalists are worse than secular dictators.

Posted by: polynikes at May 30, 2013 11:06 AM (m2CN7)

299 Piers Morgan hardest hit: In poll, 85% of Brits say they want their guns back.

Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 11:07 AM (VIaw0)

300 294 “Sounds kind of baller, too — maxing out. Everyone here should be maxed out. “ — Michelle Obama at a New York fundraiser But but but ZOMG!!!1!TONED ARMS!!!!111!!!!

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at May 30, 2013 11:07 AM (7ObY1)

301 I hope the photo of  McVain with terrorist is used in Arizona if he runs again.

Why is this old buffoon in Syria? A special appt by The Won? He is trying to negotiate peace. WTH?

Mooch needs to stay in her stupid garden. She is so trashy and vulgar. I have no idea what she means by statement at fundraiser nor do I care. What a couple of jackals. Let's hope she does not go back to London and paw the Queen.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky is thankfully not the Duchess of Alba at May 30, 2013 11:07 AM (baL2B)

302 We ate out last night. I did that a lot when I was in college. Golden Arches?

Posted by: rickb223 at May 30, 2013 11:07 AM (YIZv0)

303 Dan Quayle has aged well. 


Just thought I'd throw that out there.....

Posted by: Tami[/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 30, 2013 11:08 AM (X6akg)

304 Encourage every Israeli Arab to go fight for the rebels

Posted by: Avi at May 30, 2013 11:08 AM (Gx3Fe)

305 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 30, 2013 04:04 PM (CJjw5) It'll take Zero-Rez weeks to get the smell out of the carpets.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 11:08 AM (/PCJa)

306

94 The smallpox blanket thing is a myth.

 

---------

 

Doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

 

Posted by: Largely Irrelevant Assault Citizen Anachronda at May 30, 2013 11:08 AM (FzhYM)

307 I maxed out my Viagra, Vioxx and my AndroGel doses all in one day. Had a woody that lasted hours but was flexible enough to give ole Megan a reach around and ....I still had enough energy to put young Cindy over my knee.




 

Posted by: John SmilingCooCooBird McCain at May 30, 2013 11:08 AM (jvd3N)

308 Piers Morgan hardest hit: In poll, 85% of Brits say they want their guns back. *** Now how do they go about making it happen?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 30, 2013 11:09 AM (DPdf7)

309 Dan Quayle has aged well.


Just thought I'd throw that out there.....

Posted by: Tami at May 30, 2013 04:08 PM (X6akg)

**


Bob Dole says he's still a piker!!



Posted by: Bob Dole at May 30, 2013 11:09 AM (jvd3N)

310

>>Dan Quayle has aged well.

 

 

The key is to jerk off once a day and eat your potatoes!

Posted by: Zombie Ernest Borgnine at May 30, 2013 11:09 AM (IEgq0)

311 Now how do they go about making it happen? Armed insurre.... Oh.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 11:10 AM (/PCJa)

312 With the facts I do have, I have opposed intervention in both Libya and Egypt and have not changed that opinion with regard to Syria. One of those factors is the fact that their is no longer a Soviet Union and the fact that I believe Islamic fundalmentalists are worse than secular dictators.

Posted by: polynikes at May 30, 2013 04:06 PM (m2CN7)


Exactly.  Whatever comes next if Assad loses will surely be worse than Assad - both for Syrians and for America and American interests.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at May 30, 2013 11:10 AM (sOx93)

313

Start your own blog, dude. I'll link you, then the fuckin uniques will start rolling in and you can start selling some ad space.

Oh, and be sure to come back here and let us know when it's up. Several times a day, just until we get used to the idea.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff

 

If I remember correctly, and I very well might not, EoJ started the entire 'AllenG needs a blog meme'.


Which amuses me to no end.


The meme I mean.  Not EoJ.  Fuckin' RINO

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 30, 2013 11:11 AM (SFs98)

314

http://bit.ly/18zA3xc

 

 "Qassim Suleimani, the Quds Force commander, recently ordered Iranian artillery and armor officials to help Mr. Assad’s regime, American officials say. And Mr. Suleimani has also requested that several hundred fighters from Asaib al-Haq and Kataib Hezbollah, two Iraqi Shiite militias that have been trained by the Iranians, join the war effort in Syria, according to officials familiar with the intelligence assessments. Iran is heavily involved in training thousands of members of Mr. Assad’s militia, the Jaish al-Sha’bi, including in Iran."

 

Look, the Syrian oppo (including al Qaeda) seems to be fighting Iran along with Assad.  If we are going to have to fight Iran (again, if you count Beirut and Khobar Towers) sooner or later, isn't it a good idea to have the jihadi soften the bastards up for us?

 

 

Posted by: MTF at May 30, 2013 11:11 AM (B5y+v)

315 -----We ate out last night.

-----I did that a lot when I was in college.

----------Golden Arches?

----------Posted by: rickb223 at May 30, 2013 04:07 PM (YIZv0)


No . . . the Y.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at May 30, 2013 11:11 AM (sOx93)

316 Oh, have been meaning to mention but have remnants of plague from UK and Europe: there is NO security at many main sites. I mean, other than cameras, none. Backpacks not searched. No police presence. Nothing. It is unsettling to say the least, after the Boston attack and backpack crap. Of course, as I have said, in Paris you are on your own. The police are looking for mean Catholics who are protesting gay marriage, and for those families they wear their riot gear and weird shoulder pad things. I was reminded of this reading comment above about jihadist breeding like cockroaches.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky is thankfully not the Duchess of Alba at May 30, 2013 11:12 AM (baL2B)

317 Piers Morgan hardest hit:
In poll, 85% of Brits say they want their guns back.

Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 04:07 PM (VIaw0)


Woah, thats killer. Maybe they'll have a program like they did in WWII where they asked Americans to send any spare guns. Lets have a catchy slogan-


Send a gun to England, help kill a muzzie.

Posted by: Berserker at May 30, 2013 11:12 AM (FMbng)

318 218 I took the plunge.


I just bought Newsweek.

Posted by: eleven at May 30, 2013 03:50 PM (KXm42)


I'd keep the receipt if I were you.

Posted by: joncelli at May 30, 2013 11:15 AM (RD7QR)

319 Woah, thats killer. Maybe they'll have a program like they did in WWII where they asked Americans to send any spare guns. Lets have a catchy slogan- Send a gun to England, help kill a muzzie. *** A pen-pals program for guns!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 30, 2013 11:16 AM (DPdf7)

320 260 Whatever happened to the WH's red-line on use of chemical weapons? Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 03:59 PM (VIaw0) It got nuanced

Posted by: Ragamuffin at May 30, 2013 11:16 AM (fzFF6)

321 I would rather have Assad win after a long protracted civil war. At least he doesn't cut off the heads of the Christians and non Sunni Muslims.

Posted by: NWConservative at May 30, 2013 11:16 AM (lrfAa)

322
Jordan has good reasons to hate the palis. They attempted an assassination of their king and a coup and so they kicked their asses out.

Posted by: Waldo at May 30, 2013 03:50 PM (dHIHO)









You know how fucked up the Palis are? The infamous PLO terrorist offshoot Black September was named for the Hussein family retaliation against the Palis in 1970. They never lifted a finger against Jordan or the Hussein clan, preferring to kill unarmed Jews.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 30, 2013 11:16 AM (TIIx5)

323 Oh and BTW, fuck McCain.

Posted by: NWConservative at May 30, 2013 11:17 AM (lrfAa)

324 >Our foreign policy is becoming a joke. Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 04:02 PM (VIaw0) Oh, it's been a joke for a while now

Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 11:19 AM (8sCoq)

325 189 It's the lack of compelling, general interest comments like 136 that prevents AllenG from becoming a blogger of note.   ----------   AllenG has a blog?

 

Posted by: Largely Irrelevant Assault Citizen Anachronda at May 30, 2013 11:19 AM (IrbU4)

326 322 I would rather have Assad win after a long protracted civil war. At least he doesn't cut off the heads of the Christians and non Sunni Muslims. Posted by: NWConservative at May 30, 2013 04:16 PM (lrfAa) ...yet. (too cynical?)

Posted by: Ragamuffin at May 30, 2013 11:21 AM (fzFF6)

327 No guns for Islamists, period.

Posted by: holygoat at May 30, 2013 11:22 AM (vAiDn)

328 296 Folks, I recommend you do whatever Michelle says.

Posted by: President For Life Obama at May 30, 2013 04:05 PM (B5y+v)

 

-----------

 

Indeed. Nice little tax return you have there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

 

Posted by: Infernal Revenue at May 30, 2013 11:27 AM (FzhYM)

329 329 Indeed. Nice little tax return you have there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.
Posted by: Infernal Revenue at May 30, 2013 04:27 PM (FzhYM)

 

Katherine Englebrecht of True The Vote has asked us to endorse Michelle's call for all of you to Make Out.

We cannot endorse a particular political party, even if the alternative is too horrible to mention, so we won't provide the endorsement Ms. Englebrecht is kind enough to give.  Yes, it's under duress, but still....

We in the FBI only suggest you consider the alternatives before you decide to ignore the Fist Lady.

 

Posted by: FBI Domestic Terrorism Unit at May 30, 2013 11:32 AM (B5y+v)

330 We are at a point in history where we don`t need a damn thing these guys have. They are not our market for export. THe only damn thing they export is terrorism and the religion that supports it. Let Europe and China keep the oil flowing and deal with those tribal idiots. We`ve always had the ability to be energy self sufficient,now is the time to get over the green shit and do it.

Posted by: Augustus McCrea (aim low boys, they lookin up at snakebelly) at May 30, 2013 11:46 AM (uOxBm)

331

Having studied/worked foreign policy my entire life until just a few years back, you'd think I'd have quick and strong conclusions here.  Not really.

 

However, I do think most commenters here are focused on the wrong thing.  The only significance of the Assad regime is its alliance with Iran.  Iran is the enemy.  Assad's demise will be a gigantic strategic blow to Iran (with beneficial side effects in Lebanon and even Gaza). 

 

And knowing Syria a bit, I am fairly confident that no islamist regime could take effective power (i.e., they'd be instantly and forever challenged by others, not currently affiliated with the Assad regime - and Christians and urban Sunnis will still be there even when the Assad regime is finally gone - and they will be completely opposed to the islamists).

 

There is, generally, a vast over-estimation of our ability to influence events in other countries - even in war-time - that one sees in the brain-dead Beltway media, brain-dead Beltway "expert" community, and high-info citizens (incl. here).  Recognizing that fine-tuning is not an option, I am comfortable making the defeat of Iran (fall of Assad) the goal.  What follows Assad will NOT be worse - from our perspective.  US interests are not limited to defeating Iran, but that objective over-shadows just about everything else.  An islamist regime in Syria would be completely isolated, and in the cross-hairs of literally every contiguous or important neighbor (Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel).  It's not improbable that we could have a debacle for Iran (fall of Assad), followed by a debacle for the jihadis, who will never be able to consolidate power in Damascus, and will likely exhaust themselves trying.

 

Having said that, it doesn't mean we have to actually DO anything.  As noted by others, there are plenty of resources available to the anti-Assad forces, of whatever coloration.

 

Posted by: non-purist at May 30, 2013 11:49 AM (afQnV)

332

If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting?

No. Let the Ruskies arm Assad and we'll arm the rebels and then it's a "live fire weapons test." Imagine the improvements we can make in our weapon  systems after seeing how they work against the Russian's systems.

Afterwards, we drone the victors, bulldoze their cities and salt the earth. Easy peasy.

Posted by: Sec. Kerry at May 30, 2013 11:51 AM (N05oL)

333 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 30, 2013 04:10 PM (/PCJa)

Oh yes, first they peacefully assemble to petition their masters in Brussels and then...

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 11:59 AM (Cnqmv)

334 >Our foreign policy is becoming a joke.

Posted by: USA at May 30, 2013 04:02 PM (VIaw0)


Oh, it's been a joke for a while now

Posted by: Jones in CO at May 30, 2013 04:19 PM (8sCoq)


What concerns me is who's laughing at the joke!

Posted by: Weimar Republican at May 30, 2013 12:00 PM (Cnqmv)

335 More dead Moslems equals fewer dead Jews Works for me

Posted by: Mr Wonderful at May 30, 2013 12:10 PM (t0hSy)

336 Maybe assign Eric Holder and some of his Department Of (In)Justice Sunshine Kids to run some "assault weapons" in for 'em - that's the only thing they seem to be halfway-competent at; that, and playing Li'l Barky's dogsbody enemies-list hit squads...

Otherwise - no. Let'em fight it out amongst their stinking, rotten, Islamofascist-asshole selves.

We've already expended too much blood and treasure and valuable time, wading in the ugly bucket of blood and corruption of the parts of the world more-or-less dominated by The "Religion" Of PissOnEveryone.

Posted by: J.S.Bridges at May 30, 2013 12:10 PM (pIfuh)

337 Do you want to go live there? Posted by: EC at May 30, 2013 03:33 PM (GQ8sn) Syria would be a great place to live if you fucking owned the place. (I used the expletive to make the point that you would have to have absolute control there; no pussy-footing around.)

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 30, 2013 12:19 PM (fNpC1)

338

We have an Administration that only uses our military as a tool to further any agenda supporting there political goals, generals and admirals in the upper echelons more political than strategical, a State Department ran by Ivy league Idiots who do not understand that if you have the big stick, you say fuck you.

 

Fight it on out boys, after the dust settles and one, some, or all y`all come begging, we`ll figure it out and still be king of the hill. And it`s a bigger hill.

Posted by: Augustus McCrea (aim low boys, they lookin up at snakebelly) at May 30, 2013 12:20 PM (uOxBm)

339 Ugh! I was too impatient and flushed 5 minutes early. Caused a couple cups of poopy-water to overflow... had to spend next 30 minutes cleaning up my mess. They really ought to put marks on the inside of toilet bowls marking when its safe to flush again. Posted by: Serious Cat at May 30, 2013 03:38 PM (UypUQ) Where's an Australian ballet company when you need one?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 30, 2013 12:24 PM (fNpC1)

340 Assad is anti-muslim- his sect is not really muslim anyway and other muslims do not consider them muslims Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 30, 2013 03:40 PM (9Bj8R) Of course, muslims of any sect regard muslims of any other sect as non-muslims, except when it's convenient for them to pretend otherwise.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 30, 2013 12:30 PM (fNpC1)

341 The upside is whatever we do in Syria will probably have little effect.

Posted by: Beagle at May 30, 2013 12:37 PM (sOtz/)

342 -----------An islamist regime in Syria would be completely isolated, and in the -----------cross-hairs of literally every contiguous or important neighbor (Turkey, -----------Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel).

So, Turkey is not anti-islamist?  And so too is Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, etc?

What planet do you live on again?  The saudis basically finance Al Queda - if not the regime itself, then the people there. And they push the wahhabist stuff all over the world.  Turkey is more islamist every day. 

The idea that an islamist Syria will somehow be kept in check by Turkey or Suadi Arabia is absurd.  Is that what  is happening in Egypt?  Libya?  Even Iraq is moving toward being more islamist rather than less. And you mention Lebanon as being anti islamist?  Really?  Because Lebanon is such an open, free, secular place without islamist problems?

If your thinking is evidence of a career in foreign policy . . . its no wonder our foreign policy is so screwed up.

I understand the point that losing Syria would be a blow to Iran.  But a) I don't think it would truly be that big of a blow and b) I don't think they will have "lost" Syria quite as much as you believe.  A non-Iran islamist Syria would still be on the same page with Iran when it comes to Israel and America.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at May 30, 2013 12:48 PM (sOx93)

343 Ace: Now tell me how is Assad going to win when he belongs to a small minority religious sect, being aided by a larger yet minority Muslim sect (called Shia) against the majority of Muslims called Sunnis. The rebels are already being supported by the Arabians and Turks. This thing is going to go on for a very very long time and I would not be surprised if the war does not spread into Iraq, Lebanon, and into the various Arabian states. It will force the Muslim Bortherhood and even Hamas to go to war with Hezbollah....Now tell me how is all this a bad thing for the U.S. An all out war in the Islamic world is just what the doctor ordered for restraining Jihad against infidels in other parts of the world. The only time we should get involved in the Islamic world is out of vengeance, to punish someone for annoying us, but god for bid no nation building or long term ground wars! As long as you understand this: Infidels have no, never had, and will never have Muslim friends....you will be ok....

Posted by: Willaim Eaton at May 30, 2013 12:59 PM (rwioF)

344 Ace: Also give war a chance.... See: Give War a Chance by Edward N. Luttwak, July/August 1999. Foreign Affairs.

Posted by: Willaim Eaton at May 30, 2013 01:04 PM (rwioF)

345 Monkeytoe, my planet is the one on which the actual MidEast exists.  Your factual understanding of the basics (Turkey, Saudi, Iran's stake) is very off-base.  Won't go point by point in a dead thread, but your factual premises are uniformly flawed.  And it's just silly to downplay the stakes for Iran here - and thereby to miss that the US key interest is precisely in seeing Iran lose its Syrian ally/proxy and base of operations.  As I said in my comment, there's probably not much for the US to do here (in answer to Ace's question), and most people greatly over-estimate our ability to fine-tune events in situations like the Syrian civil war. 

Posted by: non-purist at May 30, 2013 05:12 PM (afQnV)

346 Better Assad than the Jihadis. First question you should ask when considering getting involved in a regime change: Who will take power? In Syria, there's no question. The jihadis would be infinitely worse than Assad. So, if he's winning, just stay out.

Posted by: Aarradin at May 30, 2013 06:21 PM (4T3FG)

347 Let 'em battle it out, then kill the winners.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at May 30, 2013 10:15 PM (9+PGS)

348 If we want them to keep fighting each other and Assad is slowly moving towards a win, does that mean we should step up support for the rebels in order to prolong the fighting? Yes. It has to be done on the down-low, quietly, via intermediaries, perhaps out of Iraq. This has several advantages: we can have plausible deniability, we prolong the war - civvies should bug out ASAP, we can bleed Hezballah, Iran and Russia all at the same time. If Hezballah has decided that Assad is the hill to die on, then we should make sure that it is the hill they're buried on.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at May 31, 2013 03:44 AM (1hM1d)

349 Also, do not allow regime change. If it looks like Assad is about to be swept out to sea, then dial back our support for the rebels. If it looks like Assad is about to get the upper hand, dial the support back up. Is it a nice policy? no. But then again, visit the same sweet civil war on Syria that Syria was all too happy to inflict upon Lebanon.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at May 31, 2013 03:50 AM (1hM1d)

350 The Iranians warred with the Iraqis for 10 years with us supplying one side and the Ruskies supplying the other, how'd that turn out?  Deja vu all over again?!

Posted by: Speller at June 01, 2013 11:06 PM (J74Py)

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