June 29, 2012

Liberals: Oh No You Can't Use Reconciliation To Undo ObamaTax
Republican Senators: Oh Yes We Will

— Ace

Some pre-emptive butthurt from liberals:

@timothypmurphy: Old enough to remember when reconciliation was an unconscionable abuse of power.

Right, because only you get to use reconciliation to pass a bill, but it would be hypocritical of us to take you at your word -- that the bill is subject to reconciliation -- to repeal it.

Kaus wonders why liberals believe this.

If a law can be passed via reconciliation, how on earth could someone argue with a straight face that it would be improper to modify it -- or repeal it -- via the same process?

Huh? The individual mandate is a tax! The Supreme Court has now told us. Maybe the Senate parliamentarian calls it something else–but whatever you call it, it raises revenue and repealing it would have a budgetary effect, and hence be reconciliationable. Here’s Republican Congressional expert Keith Hennessey admitting that the mandate is subject to reconciliation (and this at a time when his interest was in blocking Obamacare, which meant having as few things subject to reconciliation as possible). Certainly the GOPs could cut the monetary penalty (ax-tay) for not having health insurance to, say, a dime. That would certainly have a budgetary effect and a C.B.O. score.

Maybe the exchanges themselves wouldn’t be reconcilable, but if Romney could get rid of the mandate and the subsidies the exchanges would be stripped of their power as a vehicle to ensure universal coverage. Obamacare would effectively be repealed.

I have no idea why you'd think the exchanges couldn't be repealed by reconciliation -- I say again, they were enacted by reconciliation. If they were fit subjects for reconciliation then -- as part of a "comprehensive scheme" that included, but was not limited to, budgetary matters -- then they can be reconciled away via a "comprehensive scheme" of repeal.

Republican Senators say they're eyeing just this tactic. I wonder what on earth would stay their hand, though, except a desire to betray their voters.

Doing so would be a grievous mistake.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) seemed open to that approach during a speech at The Heritage Foundation shortly after the Supreme Court handed down its decision. The court’s ruling “does present some options for us” to pursue more unconventional options for repeal, DeMint said. He mentioned reconciliation as a potential avenue.

A senior Senate Republican aide involved in the repeal effort later confirmed to Scribe that the GOP will use the budget reconciliation process to repeal the full law, not just the portion requiring all Americans purchase health insurance.

We need 51 Senate seats. That makes it critical to win Democratic seats in Red States -- like Jon Tester's. Tester is popular in Montana, and will of course vote to keep ObamaTax. He'll almost certainly lie about this, but in the end he will vote as he did before -- for ObamaTax.

I don't know what on earth it will take to get Red State voters to finally wake up to this reality. But I know we need to try.

At the end of the say, insult them with an ad asking "Are you really this stupid?," if nothing else works. But they have to be disabused of this idea that just because a Democrat poses in ads with a shotgun that he'll do anything but vote liberal on the tough votes.


Posted by: Ace at 05:12 AM | Comments (333)
Post contains 587 words, total size 4 kb.

1 First.

Posted by: Underground Vulgarian at June 29, 2012 05:13 AM (SI8HJ)

2 Game on, cocksuckers.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny solidarity) at June 29, 2012 05:14 AM (HqfLg)

3
Indeed.  Game on. And they are a bunch of facist cocksuckers.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes.... at June 29, 2012 05:16 AM (RFeQD)

4 Republican Senators say they're eyeing just this tactic.


I'll believe them when they do it. The SOBs can't even cut spending in the House where they have a huge majority.  They sell us out at every opportunity.  The only way we will fix this is an Article V convention.


I no longer give mouth work from politicians of either party any credence at all.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:16 AM (YdQQY)

5 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 05:17 AM (8y9MW)

6

Tom Smith is running to unseat Bob Casey here in PA. If you are a PA moron, please donate to his campaign or volunteer for his campaign.

 

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 05:17 AM (C2Y4l)

7 They hit me because they love me.

Posted by: The Constitution at June 29, 2012 05:18 AM (jucos)

8

I have no idea why you'd think the exchanges couldn't be repealed by reconciliation -- I say again, they were enacted by reconciliation. If they were fit subjects for reconciliation then -- as part of a "comprehensive scheme" that included, but was not limited to, budgetary matters -- then they can be reconciled away via a "comprehensive scheme" of repeal.

 

Just wondering...the health care exchanges themselves are actually created by the states, via state legislation. (We just passed ours in pA prior to the court ruling.) Scott Walker said he's not going to create them (I think.)  Can we do this without Washington?

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:19 AM (9KqcB)

9

Frum's piece makes no sense, as usual.

The people were in the town halls simply because government was talking about healthcare, they were in the town halls because of what Obama was doing to healthcare.

This bill is unpopular. A SCOTUS decision doesn't change that.

 

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 05:20 AM (C2Y4l)

10 Can we please have a strong 10th Amendment challenge by several states? Greg Abbott and Texas need to lead thIs.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at June 29, 2012 05:20 AM (kLRhd)

11 Removing through reconciliation isn't as easy as 51 senators voting to repeal same bill. It requires a lot of arcane maneuvering around rules to create a piece of legislation that is a net positive to the federal budget. This means that acknowledgement of the mandate as a tax makes it good politically, but more difficult for reconciliation because there will be a 'budget hole' that has to be filled in order to meet the requirements of the reconciliation process.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:20 AM (B5qn7)

12

"If a law can be passed via reconciliation, how on earth could someone argue with a straight face that it would be improper to modify it -- or repeal it -- via the same process?"

You don't understand this because you're not a member of the "reality based community".  Straight faced arguments about things that are laughable to the rest of us are a speciality of those "reality" people.

Posted by: rockhead at June 29, 2012 05:21 AM (jtTKf)

13

weren't*

 

*injects coffee into veins*

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 05:21 AM (C2Y4l)

14 Can we please have a strong 10th Amendment challenge by several states? Greg Abbott and Texas need to lead thIs.

Actually, I think the Red States just need to refuse to implement it.  I posted a letter to Rick Perry (I'm sending copies to him, my State Senator, and State Rep) with what I think the States should do.  It's up on my blog, if you haven't read it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 05:22 AM (8y9MW)

15 Let me confirm it for you:  Tester really is that stupid.

Posted by: Fritz at June 29, 2012 05:22 AM (/ZZCn)

16 Dems would prefer that we unilaterally disarm. Makes things much easier.

Posted by: Mr. Lurky McLurkington, Esq. at June 29, 2012 05:23 AM (9ks0K)

17 Remember all that bullshit about Obamacare lowering the deficit...this was absolutely crucial to the reconciliation process. The CBO will need to play ball with Republicans or Republicans have to be willing to pass some kind of tax/revenue increase to fill the imaginary budget hole that Obamacare would leave behind. Reconciliation would be an absolute mess. This is why Republicans keep saying replace. Repeal through reconciliation would be near impossible without this.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:23 AM (B5qn7)

18 As I posted yesterday this bill can NOT be repealed via reconciliation due to the Byrd rule. If Republicans want to repeal this with 51 votes they will have to use the nuclear option and none of them have the balls to do that.


What you are hearing from them now is typical hot air mouth work. don't believe a damned word of it.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:23 AM (YdQQY)

19 Republicans will not do this.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 05:24 AM (Cadn7)

20 The house can just omit it from the budget, or add a line to the tax code. It can be stopped 100 ways and will definitely require shutting down the government until dems agree. But they're pussies.

Posted by: Hal Burton at June 29, 2012 05:24 AM (iYvMQ)

21 Vic is absolutely correct. They could use the 'nuclear option', though there would still be some components that may be difficult to repeal in practice because of how the law is already reaching into policy implementation at the federal and state level.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (B5qn7)

22 Actually, I think the Red States just need to refuse to implement it


That will not work because large portions of this POS are actual tax increases which you can not refuse to implement unless you want to go to jail.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (YdQQY)

23 IT'S RECONCILIATION, BITCHES!

Posted by: TheLittlShiningMan at June 29, 2012 05:25 AM (PH+2B)

24 After an evening of drinking and pondering all of this, I am fairly convinced that Obamacare will never be fully repealed.

They cleverly put the stuff in place from day one that no Senate would repeal:

Pre-existing conditions for children.
High risk coverage for people with life threatening illnesses.
Donut hole closure for Medicare

Do you seriously think you will get 60 or even 50 Senators to completely repeal Obamacare without keeping at least some of this stuff?

Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.. but I find myself asking why, in this day and age, why wouldn't we have a safety net for at least kids who are dying of some fixable ailment simply because their parents are out of work or because they only make minimum wage?

Obamacare will never fully go away.. simply because there are a few things in it that most people think should stay.  If we can win the White House and the Senate in November, the GOP better be ready to confront these issues.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2012 05:26 AM (f9c2L)

25 I no longer give mouth work from politicians of either party any credence at all.
Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM


^^^^ THIS ^^^^

For decades, we've been sold down the river by faux "Republicans" whose real agenda is to get themselves into a cushy life in D.C. The way to do that, it seems, is to talk "conservative" to the voters and then get in bed with the free-spending, rights-taking  Lords in Congress.

And they know that we will be angry with them for a short while, but will fall meekly in line in the end.

I wonder if there really is a solution. The Free Stuff Express keeps on rolling (downhill), and when Bark Obama is re-elected, it will only get bigger and faster until the last dollar and spark of energy is drained from the few who actually produce.

Posted by: MrScribbler at June 29, 2012 05:26 AM (MQc8e)

26 Seems like the only way anymore to coherently respond to anything coming from DC is "When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds that have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the Earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. ...deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... long train of abuses and usurpations... yadda yadda yadda and so on.

Posted by: Rogue Space Herpe at June 29, 2012 05:26 AM (9rZJb)

27 I no longer give mouth work from politicians of either party any credence at all.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (YdQQY)

 

 

This times 100

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 29, 2012 05:27 AM (mFxQX)

28 Republican Senators say they're eyeing just this tactic.

I say stop eyeing and start doing. (Still in no mood for milquetoast pols or their apologists.)

Posted by: dogfish at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (N2yhW)

29 If reconciliation is unconscionable, how about just reversing the exemptions? "ObamaCare shall henceforth only be applied to union members, lawyers, and 'cosmopolitan' areas"

Posted by: t-bird at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (FcR7P)

30

51 Republican senators won't be enough:

1. Still need a win in the House - enough Republicans with the guts to repeal.

2. Some of the Republicans in the Senate will not vote for repeal. No Democrats will vote for repeal, so you'll need several spare Republicans. And a couple more for any who get sick or die and have Democrat states appointing a replacement.

3. Need a win for the White House. This is, I think, less likely now. My take is huge new energy on both sides, and a wind that has blown away the air of "loser" around Obama. He will keep buying votes until November. The demographic ratchet will have had another four years to click, too.

Keep fighting, but understand it is going to be difficult.

Posted by: Hal at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (JVxG4)

31

Assuming a Romney presidency, really we only need 50 senators.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 29, 2012 05:28 AM (t06LC)

32 >>It requires a lot of arcane maneuvering around rules

Rules?  What? They didn't follow their own fucking rules when they passed the original shit...

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:29 AM (ZKzrr)

33 By any and all means available ...

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 05:29 AM (GvYeG)

34 So, you couldn't keep it after all?

Posted by: Ben Franklin at June 29, 2012 05:29 AM (TLHj1)

35 29 If reconciliation is unconscionable, how about just reversing the exemptions? "ObamaCare shall henceforth only be applied to union members, lawyers, and 'cosmopolitan' areas" Posted by: t-bird at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (FcR7P) From my understanding waivers were temporary and they have to start paying....

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (136wp)

36 #24 This is the problem. There is so much in the bill that Republicans do want want to repeal unless they put it into another bill (replace) with slightly different language. There will be no repeal of large portions of the bill in practice because so much will stay in the 'replace'. This is why no one will define what exactly anyone's ideas for replace (e.g. Romney, Boehner, etc.) are. They know that replace will look like the original law with some expanded authority for states to do what they want.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (B5qn7)

37 31 Assuming a Romney presidency, really we only need 50 senators. Posted by: Jollyroger at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (t06LC) Asking the VP is the tie-breaker?

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (136wp)

38 Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me.

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 29, 2012 05:30 AM (AWmfW)

39

I believe it if Jim DeMint, Rand Paul or Mike Lee say they want to do it. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't believe hardly any of the others in the Senate. 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 05:31 AM (fkaOH)

40 That will not work because large portions of this POS are actual tax increases which you can not refuse to implement unless you want to go to jail.

That's my point.  Go read my post (really).

I think the Red States should

1) Not expend any state resources to enforce any provision of the law
2) Specifically enact legislation to place that in their own laws.
3) Not cooperate with, nor allow, the Federal Government to enforce the law within the State's borders.

Yes.  I want a full-fledged showdown.  And then I want the States not to blink.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 05:32 AM (8y9MW)

41 They'd fucking better do this.

Posted by: Filly at June 29, 2012 05:32 AM (xiJmL)

42
Republican Senators ... I wonder what on earth would stay their hand




It would contrary to the noble tradition of comity in the World's greatest deliberative body.

But here, have a student loan and some flood insurance instead.

Posted by: Your Republican Senators

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 29, 2012 05:32 AM (kdS6q)

43 #32 Less specific rules than a method. There is a structure to using reconciliation for budget issues. It isn't just bringing something up for a floor vote, so this 'Day 2' repeal nonsense is just a dream. And again, the reason 'replace is being kept so vague is that it will contain (with probably some good things), many of the bad things on the federal level that will lead us long term down the same trajectory in health care.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:33 AM (B5qn7)

44

@37

Yep.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 29, 2012 05:34 AM (t06LC)

45 The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at June 29, 2012 05:35 AM (pUOpM)

46 Fun question- after Obama's DREAM lite, what keep President Romney from issuing an EO staying any enforcement of and implementation of any and all provisions of Obamacare?

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 29, 2012 05:35 AM (t06LC)

47 45 The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at June 29, 2012 10:35 AM (pUOpM) And having sex with hot black chicks....

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson Duece at June 29, 2012 05:36 AM (136wp)

48

Need a winfor the White House. This is, I think, less likely now. My take is huge new energy on both sides, and a wind that has blown away the air of "loser" around Obama. He will keep buying votes until November. The demographic ratchet will have had another four years to click, too.
Keep fighting, but understand it is going to be difficult.

 

This.  A thousand times this.

 

Roberts just validated Obama's signature achievement, thereby validating Obama to the swing voters.  Roberts also killed our momentum, which was huge and needed to be that way because getting Mitt across the finish line was going to be hard anyway. 

 

Now this???

 

And people think the mushy middle is going to grasp the nuance about this?  We went from a decent chance back to a longshot.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:36 AM (rX1N2)

49 At the end of the say, insult them with an ad asking "Are you really this stupid?," if nothing else works. I've been thinking about this in relation to Americans of Asian descent in CA. 15% of the population, 7% of registered voters, the worst actual victims of real institutional racism today (The Cal/UCLA Asian SAT tax is about 300 points). I thought Asians were supposed to work hard and be smart. Why are they so lazy(to register) and stupid(to vote Democrat, who in turn discriminate against them and particularly Asian girls who watch less than two hours of TV a week).

Posted by: motionview at June 29, 2012 05:37 AM (i+DU3)

50 Let's get real... they will never repeal completely. Most likely they will modify it with another 1000+ page bill that still contains all the liberal goodies. SCOTUS was our last hope... and that is now gone. When Republicans win and end up not doing anything, how many of us will just drag our feet and go along with it. Yesterday's decision is depressing....

Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2012 05:37 AM (tk0ld)

51 131 days until SCOAMF and tribe are diven back to hell.  The countdown begins.

Posted by: joanne is now determined at June 29, 2012 05:37 AM (GCsZz)

52 47 It's Thomas Tiberius Jefferson then ...

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 05:38 AM (GvYeG)

53

Wait.

 

The House is voting whether to table a motion filed by Jackson-Lee against Darrel Issa for his actions regarding the FandF hearings?!!!!!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 29, 2012 05:38 AM (piMMO)

54 The only way this will work, is if they have a nice, shiny replacement for the bill, and they can say: Repealing this shit. Replacing it with this (new shiny, better, this).

Posted by: eat chocolate at June 29, 2012 05:38 AM (HOOye)

55 what keep President Romney from issuing an EO staying any enforcement of and implementation of any and all provisions of Obamacare? Nothing but, the liability for the companies and individuals is not erased. When the red rat bastards get back in, you're at peril, with interest so the prospect of a one or two term grace period would not suffice as resistance.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:39 AM (QupBk)

56 Ok, but just the tip this time, right?

Posted by: We The People at June 29, 2012 05:39 AM (O7Q1u)

57 We need far more than 51 GOP senators.

Someone will point a camera at McCain.  One vote gone.
Hatch will remember we primaried him.  One vote gone.
Someone will say Tea Party to Cornyn. One vote gone.
Someone will say "do something" to McConnell.  One vote gone.

Any more you can think of?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at June 29, 2012 05:39 AM (qvify)

58 The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and puffins.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:39 AM (QupBk)

59 Allan, good letter to Perry. Ocare is just the most egregious of the power grabs. This started almost immediately after ratification of the Constitution. Or we secede. The Union needs Texas more than Texas needs the Union.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at June 29, 2012 05:40 AM (kLRhd)

60 52 47 It's Thomas Tiberius Jefferson then ... Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (GvYeG) Bill Shatner in a dual role. The wastrel, time-travelling Tom Jefferson and his larger-than-life, Uhura make-out specialist - James TIBERIUS Kirk. Just need a name for the show....

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 05:40 AM (136wp)

61 >>Any more you can think of?

Only one of the scrunts from Maine is retiring.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:41 AM (ZKzrr)

62 3731 Assuming a Romney presidency, really we only need 50 senators.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (t06LC)

Asking the VP is the tie-breaker?

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 10:30 AM (136wp)

-------

Woh. A majority to overturn this puppy? Just hang on there just one second.

Posted by: Sen's. Brown, Mulkowski, Collins at June 29, 2012 05:41 AM (hdpay)

63 Ohio morons!  We have absolutely got to get Josh Mandel into the US Senate.  Polling currently places him behind the loathsome Sherrod Brown, so we've got plenty of work to do.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/7obmzh7

Posted by: Timbuck at June 29, 2012 05:41 AM (BZuvE)

64

@57

To be fair, they all stood thier ground on round 1

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 29, 2012 05:41 AM (t06LC)

65 Replaced?  No thanks.

Posted by: dogfish at June 29, 2012 05:41 AM (N2yhW)

66

59 Here is the Perry speech I wanna hear.

Mr. President,

The great State of Texas says "Fuck You!" That is all.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 05:42 AM (GvYeG)

67 except a desire to betray their voters.

I'm lubing up with K-Y right now.

Posted by: The Chicken at June 29, 2012 05:42 AM (vJ6vx)

68 Oops, did I slip?

Posted by: The Tip at June 29, 2012 05:42 AM (N2yhW)

69

"The only way this will work, is if they have a nice, shiny replacement for the bill, and they can say:



Repealing this shit.
Replacing it with this (new shiny, better, this)

 

Get us to impliment their policies while making us think we came up with it.

 

Textbook case of how the Left wins.  Every.  Fucking. Time.

 

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:42 AM (rX1N2)

70 Hey, sup?

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:42 AM (tyou3)

71

"Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.. but I find myself asking why, in this day and age, why wouldn't we have a safety net for at least kids who are dying of some fixable ailment simply because their parents are out of work or because they only make minimum wage?"

 

 

WHAT???

 

 

You need hit over the head with a list of charitable foundations?

Posted by: Cicero Kid at June 29, 2012 05:42 AM (W2X7u)

72 59 Allan, good letter to Perry. Ocare is just the most egregious of the power grabs. This started almost immediately after ratification of the Constitution. Or we secede. The Union needs Texas more than Texas needs the Union. Posted by: Mr. Dave at June 29, 2012 10:40 AM (kLRhd) I saw a show about the United States. When Texas joined the Union they were given the option to divide up into 5 states. I think they can still do that. Form the United States of Texas. Or as I call it Awesome-Land

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 05:43 AM (136wp)

73

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with water and a good 16-4-8 fertilizer.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 29, 2012 05:43 AM (kdS6q)

74 Piss off Vapor Boy.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:43 AM (QupBk)

75 O/T  This is an awesome piece by Ann Coulter on FF:

The Biggest Scandal in US History

http://tinyurl.com/6qjfn6v


Money quote:  "Democrats will never stop trying to take our guns away.  They see anything more lethal than a salad shooter and wet themselves."

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:43 AM (UOM48)

76 You guys know the exchanges weren't enacted by reconciliation, right?

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:43 AM (tyou3)

77 Romney, with cajones?

Posted by: Zombie Mister Rogers at June 29, 2012 05:44 AM (lDz6c)

78 >>You need hit over the head with a list of charitable foundations?

Silly wingnut, if the government doesn't do it it doesn't exist!

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:44 AM (ZKzrr)

79 What was enacted through reconciliation was the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010. You could look up what is and isn't in the reconciliation sidecar if you actually cared about not being wrong about everything.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:44 AM (tyou3)

80 Any more you can think of?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at June 29, 2012 10:39 AM (qvify)



Don't forget about me

Posted by: Lindsay "I'm a Democrat's Bitch" Graham at June 29, 2012 05:44 AM (YdQQY)

81 Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 10:44 AM (tyou3)



Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:45 AM (YdQQY)

82 There is no penalty for the states not setting up exchanges. The Democrat's basic incompetence will give the competitive edge to any state with the balls to seize it.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 05:45 AM (QupBk)

83 Stay classy, Barry!

From spiking the football to gloating about his big fucking tax deal, the man just can't help acting like a prepubescent ninnyhammer.

Posted by: Fritz at June 29, 2012 05:46 AM (/ZZCn)

84 Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 10:44 AM (tyou3)

Shit

The bill was passed in Dec with 60 votes.   The fixes were passed the following March via reconciliation.  The fixes has numerous tax increases in it to make that possible,

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 05:46 AM (YdQQY)

85 56 Ok, but just the tip this time, right?

Posted by: We The People at June 29, 2012 10:39 AM (O7Q1u)


It's just a tax.

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 29, 2012 05:46 AM (AWmfW)

86 #76 Yes. I think people are thinking about whether the entire structure of the law (specifically the mandate) can be repealed through reconciliation. The budgetary impact that is the reason it can go through reconciliation will be very difficult and may require some other revenue/tax provisions to make up for the loss of tax revenue. Again, once you say that you can use reconciliation to change the tax, you are left having to follow the methods of the reconciliation process which require attention to the impact of the bill on the federal budget.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:46 AM (B5qn7)

87 I don't really care because it's not going to be repealed anyway, and I think the filibuster is bullshit, so you should only need 50 votes. I just think it's funny that you guys are completely incapable of getting even basic facts correct.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:46 AM (tyou3)

88

"Kaus wonders why liberals believe this."

 

Kaus is a liberal, so I'm not sure where the mystery comes from.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 05:47 AM (rX1N2)

89 Bitch please. They can try to repeal it via reconciliation. Then the Dems will sue that they are breaking Senate rules and that it isn't reconciliable. Which way do you think John 'it-is-or-isn't-a-tax-depending-on-what-you-want' Roberts will rule? He's tipped his hand and we now know what kind of Justice he will be. Let's look at not only ObamaTax but also the monday ruling essentially turning AZ into an Amnesty state and attacking the 9th amendment and the ability of state to protect itself. This is all a charade - to think that these bastards have so corrupted the language that they have used the documents meant to protect us from the government to enslave us instead pisses me off to no ending. Nearly 250 years ago, this kind of behavior by the government resulted in a shooting war.

Posted by: blindside at June 29, 2012 05:47 AM (x7g7t)

90

Yesterday we got whooped. Now, we fight!

Posted by: DC Zombie at June 29, 2012 05:47 AM (b96e6)

91

I was  just in Ohio and saw some of the political ads on TV.  Brown's ads are brutal against Mandel.  Mandel's ads are positive about Mandel.  We all know how those contests usually turn out. 

 

And another thing, I remember when Chief Justice Roberts was up for confirmation, and how truly nasty liberals in the press treated him, mocking his wife and his adopted children - they had to make sure everybody knew the kids were adopted - even a fashion reporter got in on the act and mocked them for dressing appropriately for the occasion.

 

Why Roberts thinks he needs to suck up to those people mystifies me, those people will never accept him.  And now, neither will we.  Well played, idiot.

Posted by: Boots at June 29, 2012 05:47 AM (neKzn)

92 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:45 AM (YdQQY)

I agree.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:47 AM (nEUpB)

93 Where's maet with his epic banhammer?  This troll is like a whack-a-mole.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:47 AM (UOM48)

94 If Republicans don't repeal Obamacare on Day 1 then I am done with the GOP and I will work with every single person I can find to start a new party.

Posted by: Colonel Pooteh at June 29, 2012 05:48 AM (nsT1z)

95

Haven't read the comments yet because I wanted to react before reading them.

 

My feel is that, in the end, the R's won't perform. The MSM and Democrats will fight viciously and demagogue endlessly, portraying Romney and the R's as heartless rich guys who want to take poor Granny's duly passed healthcare away on a technicality. I don't think Romney or the Reps have the stomach for the kind of fight this will entail, particularly since the media will portray this SCOTUS ruling as having "legitimized" Obamacare.

 

In the end, I think the Republicans will nibble at various provisions and mostly lose. They may use the threat of reconciliation as a club to extract some concessions, but sickeningly, I don't believe they have the heart for this fight.

Posted by: RM at June 29, 2012 05:48 AM (TRsME)

96

Fight Fight Fight!

http://tinyurl.com/7yxr9e4

Posted by: DC Zombie at June 29, 2012 05:49 AM (b96e6)

97 Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 10:43 AM (QupBk)

DO you have an e-mail address? I have a question about our little troll.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:49 AM (nEUpB)

98 Textbook case of how the Left wins. Every. Fucking. Time.

-------

It's easy to win when your entire MO is to give away "free shit" that isn't free to clueless rubes. 

Posted by: Lady in Black - ObamaTaxCare opponent - This means war, bitchez at June 29, 2012 05:49 AM (vOMX+)

99 Go Big.

Posted by: Sulla at June 29, 2012 05:49 AM (JOnLy)

100 That will not work because large portions of this POS are actual tax increases which you can not refuse to implement unless you want to go to jail. Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:25 AM (YdQQY) I think there might have been more to the suggestion. Too bad NC was forced to write into it's Constitution that it would never revolt. Then again, these fuckers in Washington don't give a shit about 'law' so why should we? Fuck them. They've made their ruling. Let them just come and try to enforce it.

Posted by: blindside at June 29, 2012 05:50 AM (x7g7t)

101 Anyone else find it odd that America's first black President has turned us into slaves?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 05:50 AM (Cadn7)

102 Remember, Frum said the GOP should get behind healthcare reform because it would become popular once it was passed.

Posted by: Jaydee77 at June 29, 2012 05:51 AM (5YMB7)

103 "I don't know what on earth it will take to get Red State voters to finally wake up to this reality."

I was thinking that maybe for once you'd *not* find a way to make a wholly inside-DC problem really the fault/obligation/whatever of those filthy peasants out there.

I shouldn't have done that.

Posted by: nope at June 29, 2012 05:51 AM (cePv8)

104 101 Anyone else find it odd that America's first black President has turned us into slaves?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (Cadn7




Thread winnah.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:51 AM (UOM48)

105 Reconciliation isn't about simply being allowed to remove and change something because it is a tax, budgetary, etc. when there is gridlock, it is a particular process with a structure for dealing with contentious budgetary issues that has structural limitations. These structures can be removed through the 'nuclear' option as Vic mentioned, but there is no suggestion that this will happen. The 'replace' rhetoric is a huge signal to what the plan is.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 05:51 AM (B5qn7)

106 Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (Cadn7)

Well played.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:52 AM (nEUpB)

107 101 Anyone else find it odd that America's first black President has turned us into slaves? Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (Cadn7) Paybacks a bitch, eh whitey?

Posted by: Emporer Obama. at June 29, 2012 05:52 AM (9TTOe)

108

100 "Fuck them. They've made their ruling. Let them just come and try to enforce it"

Yep. This shit is long from over. Stay in the fight.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 05:52 AM (GvYeG)

109 Did I miss the conversation about it on another thread?

I'm outraged that that..... thing...would attack Issa.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 29, 2012 05:52 AM (piMMO)

110 Now telling lies is also a constitutional right unless it's not, depending on who is being lied to. No one who lies about military service are doing it in a vacuum. They are doing it for their benefit which automatically harms the person they are lying to. Congress should be able to pass such laws.

Posted by: polynikes at June 29, 2012 05:52 AM (hdGdp)

111 We need far more than 51 GOP senators.

Someone will point a camera at McCain. One vote gone.
Hatch will remember we primaried him. One vote gone.
Someone will say Tea Party to Cornyn. One vote gone.
Someone will say "do something" to McConnell. One vote gone.


LOL, way too true.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 29, 2012 05:53 AM (fWqsc)

112 I spent about 20 minutes last night on twitter arguing with a liberal woman from CT who insisted that this bill couldn't be repealed, period. To repeal it would involve court action and the will of all 50 states, and she kept tweeting 'see you in court!'. After trying to explain why she was 100% wrong, I figured out that she looked at yesterday's ACA ruling as an amendment to the Constitution. She kept going on and on about how rights can't be repealed. So, I wrote a nice tweet explaining that ACA wasn't a Constitutional amendment. By then, she blocked me. This is what we're up against, and nothing short of a plague will solve this problem.

Posted by: Joejm65 at June 29, 2012 05:53 AM (ghfTT)

113 "Then again, these fuckers in Washington don't give a shit about 'law' so why should we? Fuck them. They've made their ruling. Let them just come and try to enforce it." Yeah, bro. You should go camp out in the woods and try to start a militia. Don't take that shit, man. Defend your right to not have health insurance. I'm sure your revolution will be totally successful.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:53 AM (tyou3)

114 I promise not to tax what I'm about to do in your mouth.

Posted by: Preznit BFD at June 29, 2012 05:53 AM (UOM48)

115
I just think it's funny that you guys are completely incapable of getting even basic facts correct.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (tyou3)

==============



Since we're so stuuuupid, maybe you'd like to find some other place to hang out.

Posted by: Tami at June 29, 2012 05:54 AM (X6akg)

116 If Romney wins, isn't that, in effect, a mandate from the voters to repeal ACA.  Or would it just be a tax?

So confuzzled.  :-D

Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 29, 2012 05:54 AM (X/+QT)

117 Maybe you legal beagles can ponder this: could States enact legislation in which they prohibit state officials from recognizing or recording federal tax liens?

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at June 29, 2012 05:55 AM (qwK3S)

118 The budgetary impact that is the reason it can go through reconciliation will be very difficult and may require some other revenue/tax provisions to make up for the loss of tax revenue. Again, once you say that you can use reconciliation to change the tax, you are left having to follow the methods of the reconciliation process which require attention to the impact of the bill on the federal budget.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (B5qn7)


So why don't we just make up rules and do it anyway? That's exactly what they did, despite voters in Massachusetts saying "please don't do this".

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 29, 2012 05:55 AM (fWqsc)

119 I agree with 111, the Republicans are bastards as well. They are as likely to give up power as they are to balance a budget. We're screwed.

Posted by: Chicago Voter at June 29, 2012 05:55 AM (qAGZa)

120 There is nothing good in this shit.
http://is.gd/tC9jyF

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 05:55 AM (ZKzrr)

121 Roberts did us a huge favor.  He kept a law that 60ish percent of Americans hate, motivated us (even more) for the upcoming election, and prevented any whining about 5 unelected men in robes vs. Congress, the President, the Senate, and the people.

Yes, it's a terrible precedent.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 05:56 AM (mdhVr)

122 Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (tyou3)

Ah, a one-trick pony.

Trolls eventually reveal themselves as boring. And around here, that's the worst possible thing to be.

I think your 15 minutes are up.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:56 AM (nEUpB)

123 John Roberts is a cheap, worthless whore and a miserable failure.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 29, 2012 05:56 AM (LnQr8)

124

After yesterday, I am in  Gen Sherman-mode and I'm going to burn down anything and everything to get to the sea.

Will be contributing heavily...

 

Posted by: @huffpeter at June 29, 2012 05:57 AM (NHNJt)

125 You guys are all slaves now. You are forced to have health insurance or pay a tax penalty. This is the worst infringement of liberty imaginable. This case is worse than Dred Scott. John Roberts is going to sell your children and rape your wives because you're slaves now, bitches.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:57 AM (tyou3)

126 Gonna be a good day. Motivated.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 05:57 AM (GvYeG)

127 Ace - if this post is out of line, slam my junk with the Banhammer from Hell...I've got to vent, Brother....

The GOP's ad plan from this point forward needs to be two subjects:

1.  Obamacare is a TAX!  Mr. and Mrs. America - you just got TAXED (this needs to be a GHWB "Read my lips, NO NEW TAXES" moment).  Get the Stephanopolous interview and the Solicitor General's brief to the court out there and drive it home ("it's not a tax").  Point out the SCOTUS said that it is a TAX!  Don't just say that you'll overturn it, but put out a detailed plan on what needs to be done to get the costs under control (tort reform, insurance across state lines, etc.).  Point out the number of providers that are not taking Medicare patients and those that have said they will leave medicine because of this.

2.  "It's the Economy, Stupid!"  Bring out the "Recovery Summer", "Funemployment", Solyndra, "shovel ready jobs" bullsh!t and ride it like the family mule.  Go one step further and as Americans "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" question.  Hammer the public... get them thinking... show them reality (gas prices, debt, unemployment numbers - especially those that have stopped looking for work, etc...).

Choomer has two thing that he can "crow about" - Bin Laden and Obamacare... nothing else.  Hammer the dogsh!t out of his ass until he is barking like a fox.

Remember this - the SCOTUS has gone back and reversed itself throughout its history - "separate but equal" was overturned by Brown v. Board of Education is proof of that.  Roberts may have made a mistake - only he and God know what he was thinking when he sided and wrote the majority decision, but the court has said "yes, that was a bad decision, but let's get it right this time" before.

Finally - people need to get off their asses and help Mitt and other GOP candidates "across the line".  Money, volunteering,  voting center observer - whatever it takes to help stop this crap in November.

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 05:58 AM (Jls4P)

128

Roberts just validated Obama's signature achievement, thereby validating Obama to the swing voters. Roberts also killed our momentum, which was huge and needed to be that way because getting Mitt across the finish line was going to be hard anyway.

 

Keep in mind that the court's job is not validate or invalidate policy, just to rule whether it's constitutional. And I don't want supreme court justices worrying about political momentum.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 05:58 AM (9KqcB)

129 Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at June 29, 2012 10:55 AM (qwK3S)

No, the 16th amendment grants the power to tax to the federal government. Tax liens flow naturally from this power, so the states cannot interfere.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 05:58 AM (nEUpB)

130 Troll's got nothin'.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 05:58 AM (UOM48)

131 "I think your 15 minutes are up." I'm just your sockpuppet anyway. We already got busted for using the same IP address.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 05:59 AM (tyou3)

132 Hmmm, my son was out of bed early this morning too... I wonder if Ace is my son??  It would explain a lot. 

Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2012 06:00 AM (TOk1P)

133 130 Troll's got nothin'. Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 10:58 AM (UOM4 I remember when we had smart interesting trolls. This is like a cat playing with a dead mouse.

Posted by: Emporer Obama. at June 29, 2012 06:00 AM (9TTOe)

134 Banhammer time.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 06:00 AM (UOM48)

135

I wonder what on earth would stay their hand, though, except a desire to betray their voters.

 

That. Not to mention the congeniality and othersuch bullshit. I am at the point of heaving adherence to intellectual integrity and principle out the window and playing just as down and dirty as the Dems. If the Dems say these are the rules, these are the rules, even when Republicans use them.

 

I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans first won the Senate back from the Dems in 1980.  IIRC, there was much solemn discussion about respecting minority party voting rights etc.  When the Republicans took the House in 1995, that was dialed up to eleventy and the Republicans, for some stupid party reason, went along with a lot of it.

 

Fuck.  That.  Shit.  Play by the rules the Left has set.  It's about damn time they taste the boot of justice on that point. 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 29, 2012 06:00 AM (VtjlW)

136 Jackson-Lee shot down with 20 Dems joining Republicans.

http://bit.ly/LFH6se

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 29, 2012 06:00 AM (piMMO)

137 "Roberts just validated Obama's signature achievement, thereby validating Obama to the swing voters. Roberts also killed our momentum, which was huge and needed to be that way because getting Mitt across the finish line was going to be hard anyway. " Absolutely 100% correct.

Posted by: Greg at June 29, 2012 06:01 AM (j+Xk7)

138 84 Vic bitchslapped the troll!

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 29, 2012 06:01 AM (i330i)

139

These motherfuckers just bought themselves several months of bourbon-fueled conservative moonbattery.

 

Time to crank the hate up and rip off the fuckin knob.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 29, 2012 06:01 AM (U1kBg)

140

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (tyou3)

 

Oh look, a liberal who can't grasp nuance or the foundational principles on which the country (that afforded him the freedom to make stupid comments)  was founded.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 06:01 AM (rX1N2)

141 Roberts also killed our momentum, which was huge and needed to be that way because getting Mitt across the finish line was going to be hard anyway.

Wait, what?  I'm not following this logic.  We now know the only way to be rid of ObamaCare is to control both houses of Congress and the Presidency.

That's motivation.  Isn't it?  Unless we adopt a "take our ball and go home" policy.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 06:01 AM (mdhVr)

142 The only thing better than repealing this via reconciliation would be doing it on Christmas Eve 2012.

Posted by: RushBabe at June 29, 2012 06:01 AM (tQHzJ)

143 http://tinyurl.com/76ed4hy [PIC] think you're having bad day, this groupie actually slept with the bass player of a band by mistake.

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 06:02 AM (136wp)

144

"It's the Economy, Stupid!" Bring out the "Recovery Summer"

 

Yes. The average voter was NOT on pins and needles waiting for the court ruling. For them, "health care" was something in the news in 2009, and then went away. Now it's in the news, and will go away.

 

To the extent it's discussed, it will be 1. Obama touting a law that remains extremely unpopular and 2. Romney touting the fact that Obama misled voters about rasing taxes.

 

But the election will turn on the economy.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 06:02 AM (9KqcB)

145 "No, the 16th amendment grants the power to tax to the federal government." No, sockpuppet, that's in article I. The 16th amendment allows an income tax without apportionment. Direct taxes have to be apportioned among the states according the the census. Pollock v. Farmers Loan & Trust ruled that an income tax on income from real property ownership was a direct tax. The 16th amendment gets around that case. But, yeah, the idea that states can block the federal government from collecting taxes is crazy.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:03 AM (tyou3)

146 These motherfuckers just bought themselves several months of bourbon-fueled conservative moonbattery.

Time to crank the hate up and rip off the fuckin knob.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 29, 2012 11:01 AM (U1kBg)

 

Which calls to mind Iowahawk's most excellent tweet yesterday:  The last time the dems partied over a healthcare win, they lost 60 seats in congress.

Posted by: RushBabe at June 29, 2012 06:03 AM (tQHzJ)

147 Senator Testes will lie.  He can't help it.  That's just his nature.

Posted by: garrett at June 29, 2012 06:03 AM (T9qLF)

148 #136

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) brought up the resolution saying Issa's investigation "discredits the integrity of the House," after which Republicans quickly made a motion to table the resolution.



Lol.  Sheila Jackson-Lee talking about integrity. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 06:03 AM (UOM48)

149 I wonder what Jackson-Lee and the rest of the miserable CBC would've done if Brian Terry had been a black man.

Posted by: Lady in Black - ObamaTaxCare opponent - This means war, bitchez at June 29, 2012 06:03 AM (vOMX+)

150 quick, someone call the fire department.. 'cuz Ace is on fiya!

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 06:04 AM (KreG+)

151 I have no concept of what freedom is, unless it's beating off in public. Am I right?

Posted by: Paul Suxbone at June 29, 2012 06:04 AM (yn6XZ)

152 I'm sure your revolution will be totally successful. Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (tyou3) You're totally right. How could the populace ever defeat a government.

Posted by: Contintental Army at June 29, 2012 06:04 AM (x7g7t)

153 150 I have no concept of what freedom is, unless it's beating off in public. Am I right? Posted by: Paul Suxbone at June 29, 2012 11:04 AM (yn6XZ) Or shitting on a cop car.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 06:05 AM (9TTOe)

154

Repealing the tax would end ObamaCare.  "Buy insurance or pay this tax" is something; "Buy insurance or we'll say buy insurance again" is nothing.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - fireworks tonight at June 29, 2012 06:06 AM (hLRSq)

155 148 I wonder what Jackson-Lee and the rest of the miserable CBC would've done if Brian Terry had been a black man. Posted by: Lady in Black - ObamaTaxCare opponent - This means war, bitchez at June 29, 2012 11:03 AM (vOMX+) If Brian Terry was African American, he would be a "white" African American

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 06:06 AM (136wp)

156

60

Capt. Kirk and Thomas Jefferson in "The Enterprise of Independence."

Posted by: Thingamajig at June 29, 2012 06:06 AM (fD1lX)

157 Lol. Sheila Jackson-Lee talking about integrity.


****

No kidding! I bet the Dems who voted against it are the same ones who voted with Issa yesterday.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 29, 2012 06:06 AM (piMMO)

158 Damn temps going up like a rocket.  Already at 93° in the shade.  Supposed to hit 108° today.

Posted by: Vic "the damn temps too high" Moron at June 29, 2012 06:06 AM (YdQQY)

159 The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with water and a good martini made with Val-u-Rite vodka.

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 06:07 AM (Jls4P)

160 "Unless we adopt a "take our ball and go home" policy." That's a better idea. You're not going to repeal it anyway.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:07 AM (tyou3)

161 152 150 I have no concept of what freedom is, unless it's beating off in public. Am I right? Posted by: Paul Suxbone at June 29, 2012 11:04 AM (yn6XZ) Or shitting on a cop car. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 11:05 AM (9TTOe) Or sucking on a sleeping woman's toes in a tent on public property

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 06:07 AM (136wp)

162 Keep in mind that the court's job is not validate or invalidate policy, just to rule whether it's constitutional. And I don't want supreme court justices worrying about political momentum.

 

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 10:58 AM (9KqcB)

 

Keep in mind the discussion is about constitutionality, not policy.  The court clearly has its head up its ass.  If you think politics and ideology aren't important in SCOTUS picks, I'm sure you're just fine with Obama having a few more choices right?  GMAFB

 

The comments about political momentum are more a wake up call to conservatives about how this decision affects political prospects.  The SCOTUS and its findings don't exist in a vacuum.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 06:07 AM (rX1N2)

163 Paul Carbone wants a single payor system where the government pays for all healthcare. He thinks this can be funded through increased taxes on the 'wealthy'. He also thinks he can split atoms ..with his mind. These dumbfucks never learn until the effects of their dumbasseey smacks them personally in the face. And even then some of them double down. Carbone sounds like a smug prick that would double down.

Posted by: polynikes at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (hdGdp)

164 I'm thinking finish up work, work out, Dos Equis after ... look forward to Obama getting his ass kicked in Nov.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (GvYeG)

165 Either that or break out the muskets. All you need is a few muzzle loaders and tri-corner hats and you could totally defeat the U.S. government.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (tyou3)

166 Watching Democrats try and defend this is going to be a lot funner than I thought. Watching the Boehner and Friends fuck this up as usual, not so much.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (UZQM8)

167 He also validated this as a tax, which Obama argued this wasn't. He claims he's cleaning up Bush's mess, but then he is a tax and spend liberal. Clinton sold himself as the guy who eliminated the deficit. Even Republicans didn't argue this, saying either there was no surplus or Gingrich made him do it by reforming welfare. Romney got the nomination as a reliable, disciplined, mean candidate who could take on Obama. Now he has to do it. He has to show leadership, which he has not done thus far.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (i330i)

168 142 http://tinyurl.com/76ed4hy

[PIC] think you're having bad day, this groupie actually slept with the bass player of a band by mistake.

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 11:02 AM (136wp




OMG that's hilarious and pathetic at the same time.  Obama voter for sure.  Love match with Paulie.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (UOM48)

169 148 I wonder what Jackson-Lee and the rest of the miserable CBC would've done if Brian Terry had been a black man.
  nothing, nothing at all. blacks dont care when one black kills another. but let a white hispanic defend hisself and its mississippi burning baby!

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 06:08 AM (TKF1Y)

170 Ace, the entire point is that liberals seriously believe that any means can be justified to reach their desired end, but conservatives must play by the rules.  It has always been this way.  Liberals know they cannot win in the end in a fair fight, so they demand advantage.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 29, 2012 06:09 AM (Z6meB)

171 Actually, I think the Red States just need to refuse to implement it. I posted a letter to Rick Perry (I'm sending copies to him, my State Senator, and State Rep) with what I think the States should do. It's up on my blog, if you haven't read it.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart

I wish my governor had the ball but my governor is...Jerry Brown.

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:09 AM (iYbLN)

172 I remember when we had smart interesting trolls. Interesting? Hmm, maybe, sometimes on rare occasions, if only as an illustration of the workings, using the term charitably, of the provincial mind. Amusing sure. Palin Steele and erg are our dancing monkeys. Smart though? I can't think of a single one.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:09 AM (QupBk)

173 "Paul Carbone wants a single payor system where the government pays for all healthcare. " You got me. I would want that. But that's not going to happen, so I'm cool with this Obamacare thing.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:10 AM (tyou3)

174 You're not going to repeal it anyway.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 11:07 AM (tyou3)

Is that because of the vast popular support of ObamaCare or of Democrats?

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 06:10 AM (mdhVr)

175 You guys know if you don't quote the dunce, when the inevitable vaporization comes, only a stink will remain.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:10 AM (QupBk)

176 The only thing better than repealing this via reconciliation would be doing it on Christmas Eve 2012. Posted by: RushBabe
........
You do realize the current Congress is in place until Dec 31st and Obama until Jan 20th, right?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2012 06:11 AM (f9c2L)

177 Who is this Carbone troll who speaks to me as though I needed his advice?

Posted by: Longshanks at June 29, 2012 06:11 AM (YdQQY)

178 I tweeted both Gowdy and Rand Paul:

Repeal AC! In the meantime, put forth a measure that binds Congress to the same rules as the citizenry. Obamacare for ALL!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 29, 2012 06:11 AM (piMMO)

179 "He also validated this as a tax, which Obama argued this wasn't." Yeah, Obama lied. I'm fine with that.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:11 AM (tyou3)

180

"Wait, what? I'm not following this logic. We now know the only way to be rid of ObamaCare is to control both houses of Congress and the Presidency.



That's motivation. Isn't it? Unless we adopt a "take our ball and go home" policy.

 

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 11:01 AM (mdhVr)"

 

Because, as I've stated and explained in this very thread and the comment you don't seem to grasp, it's now going to even harder to achieve our goals.  It just went from hard, but do-able to FUUUUUUUUU..... 

 

Much, much harder.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 06:11 AM (rX1N2)

181 Give me two real justices in the next term that actually have read the constitution.  Then I'm growing some wheat and going back to Wickard and resetting some things.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (X/+QT)

182 You got me. I would want that. But that's not going to happen, so I'm cool with this Obamacare thing. Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 11:10 AM (tyou3) What do you think about the companies with waivers?

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (UZQM8)

183 Besides which, all trolls are Average Joe.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (QupBk)

184 Who is this Carbone troll who speaks to me as though I needed his advice?

Posted by: Longshanks at June 29, 2012 11:11 AM (YdQQY)

Another super-competent Obama staffer.  See e.g., Holder, Eric.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (mdhVr)

185 Roberts is crazy like a fox for calling it a tax and opening it up to reconcilliation?!?

Mongo just pawn in game of life.


Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (Ky1+e)

186 I would like to send best wishes to Chief Justice John "Fuck The Public Sideways" Roberts. 

Let's just make shit up...it's the law of the land.

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (iYbLN)

187 Obamacare does have a clause stating that repeal of the law requires a supermajority, but I don't see how that could stand. It's a congressional rules thing, and one Congress doesn't get to dictate rules for later Congresses.

Posted by: Eddie Willers at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (bRdb3)

188 As I posted yesterday this bill can NOT be repealed via reconciliation due to the Byrd rule. If Republicans want to repeal this with 51 votes they will have to use the nuclear option and none of them have the balls to do that.


What you are hearing from them now is typical hot air mouth work. don't believe a damned word of it.

 

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:23 AM (YdQQY)

 

Go read Keith Hennessey's original articles ont his during the Obamacare debate.  Kaus linked the important one.  The Byrd rule was overcome when the Dems were pushing this law through.  Therefore, anything that was in the bill that passed via reconciliation is not subject to a Byrd rule challenge on repeal.  And most of the rest of it isn't either, because it can be easily connected to the money parts of the bill. 

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword, bitchez.

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (NYnoe)

189

You gotta fight . .

for your right . .

to Beeeeeaaaatttt Off! In public. With old ladies watchin'

Posted by: Paul Suxbone at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (yn6XZ)

190 Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 11:09 AM (QupBk) Some of the concearn trolls were pretty smooth. They took a while to figure out. But yeah, maybe your right. Using the word smart was very generous.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (9TTOe)

191 Pretty sure that Tester, along with Claire McCaskill, was dead in the water BEFORE the SCOTUS decision.

Now that the decision is in and screams "TAX" in big bold letters, this should lead to Republican wins in Montana, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Wisconsin for sure, which is nearly enough for a majority depending on the results of Massachussets and Maine.  (+3 to +5 net change)

If Romney wins, then we could still retain Massachusetts while also picking up Florida, Virginia, Ohio, and Michigan. (+8 to +9 net change)

If it's a total wipeout, then we could actually retain Maine while also picking up New Mexico, Connecticut, Hawaii, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. (+16 net change).

The latter scenario only happens if Obama completely melts down between now and November.


Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 29, 2012 06:12 AM (e0xKF)

192

Paulie Carbone  is

THE FISSURE KING

Posted by: garrett at June 29, 2012 06:13 AM (T9qLF)

193 "Who is this Carbone troll who speaks to me as though I needed his advice?" I'm a troll named Paulie Carbone. Who the fuck are you, Edward I?

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:13 AM (tyou3)

194 ObamaCare is not only a record-breaking tax increase, it is also a significantly UNFAIR tax increase.  The soft underbelly of the ACA is the waiver process.

And that starts with the Congressional and executive branch exemptions.

Posted by: mrp at June 29, 2012 06:13 AM (HjPtV)

195 176 Who is this Carbone troll who speaks to me as though I needed his advice? Posted by: Longshanks at June 29, 2012 11:11 AM (YdQQY) One of the best movie scenes ever.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 06:13 AM (9TTOe)

196 Be motivated, but don't sweat this. November. Contempt. Bitches, BFD.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 06:13 AM (GvYeG)

197 Finally realized who Trey Gowdy sounds exactly like. Mr. Haney from Green Acres.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (052zE)

198 Because, as I've stated and explainedin this very thread and the comment you don't seem to grasp, it's now going to even harder to achieve our goals. It just went from hard, but do-able to FUUUUUUUUU.....

Much, much harder.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 11:11 AM (rX1N2)

No need to insult me, dickhead, I haven't read the thread.  "It's going to even harder to achieve our goals" is not an explanation, it's an assertion.  To the extent it's readable.  If you can explain it, however, I can understand it.

Plan A was always repeal.  Plan B was an afterthought.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (mdhVr)

199 I was saying this to the Eeyores yesterday.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Posted by: Ed Anger's Cat at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (7+pP9)

200 What do you think about the companies with waivers? Posted by: cajun carrot


The question of the day is:  How can HHS have the power to grant a tax waiver to thousands of companies?


Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (iYbLN)

201 Seattle Slough was clever in a provincial schoolmaster way. The tallest midget in Munchkinland as it were.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (QupBk)

202

With old ladies watchin'

 

Watch it, their likely to have themselves a stroke!

Posted by: punchlines R us at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (T9qLF)

203

Per Hot Air...

Update: Survey USA conducted three statewide polls overnight of likely voters on the Supreme Court decision to see if it would move the needle.  So far, the results look pretty poor for Obama.

California – In one of the liberal bastions of Obama’s support, 45% disagreed with the Court ruling that ObamaCare is constitutional, with 44% agreeing.  Nearly three-quarters expect their health care to get worse (38%) or stay the same (34%), as opposed to just 23% who expect it to improve now that ObamaCare will be implemented.  And this is thebest results of the three states.Kansas – Romney’s going to win Kansas anyway, but the numbers here are still bad news for Obama’s hopes in the Midwest.  52% disagree with the court, as opposed to only 38% who agree, with 48% expecting their health care to get worse as a result.  Only 16% think it will improve.Florida – This state actually matters, and it looks bad for Obama here, too.  Voters disagree with the court 50/39, 47% expect their health care to get worse while only 20% expect it to improve, and 51% think it will get more expensive, too.  Only 6% of Florida seniors expect health-care costs to decline, while 44% expect costs to rise.

Posted by: Hunter at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (MrHX3)

204 194 Didn't that guy get thrown out the window?

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (GvYeG)

205 Thanks to the sage brilliance of Senate Democrats efforts to not pass a budget, the exact same reconciliation rules are still in effect.

Posted by: Harry Reid at June 29, 2012 06:14 AM (e8kgV)

206 184 Roberts is crazy like a fox for calling it a tax and opening it up to reconcilliation?!? Mongo just pawn in game of life. Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 11:12 AM (Ky1+e) Candygram for Paulie! Candygram for Paulie!

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 06:15 AM (136wp)

207 I still say we need a tax on those who get pregnant and don't voluntarily have a child.
We're not taxing abortion, we're not taxing miscarriages--we are merely taxing those who choose not to have a child.
Because the Roberts ruling says it is OK to tax someone for not doing something.

Then, let us follow it up with a tax on those who have children but don't get married. As the Court said, they are free not to get married, they are just not free, however, to refuse to pay the tax.

 I cannot believe there are still conservatives who are seeing a silver lining here:
This decision rivals--and will likely exceed--Dred Scott in its pure evil.

This decision stands for one thing: Americans are free only to the extent of those freedoms granted to them by the Federal government; we are free subject to the whims and whimsey of our new king.

Let that sink in, you turds: Chief Justice Roberts yesterday coronated the federal government as our King.

Anyway: Good Morning, welcome to the People's Democratic Republic of America. Another day of occupation, another day of resistance.

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 29, 2012 06:15 AM (kSaUf)

208 "Roberts just validated Obama's signature achievement, thereby validating Obama to the swing voters. Roberts also killed our momentum, which was huge and needed to be that way because getting Mitt across the finish line was going to be hard anyway. " +1

Posted by: DrSmith at June 29, 2012 06:15 AM (PobL/)

209 193 ObamaCare is not only a record-breaking tax increase, it is also a significantly UNFAIR tax increase. The soft underbelly of the ACA is the waiver process. And that starts with the Congressional and executive branch exemptions. Posted by: mrp at June 29, 2012 11:13 AM (HjPtV) Still waiting on Paul Carbone to answer me on what he thinks about said waivers, but he's got his hands full I think so I'll hang out and see what happens.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 06:15 AM (UZQM8)

210 In the first stage of their analysis, the two Norwegian researchers did indeed find that "climate-related disasters have a negative impact on growth," but they say that their analysis of disaster data and conflict onset shows that "climate-related natural disasters do not have any direct effect on conflict onset."

Posted by: Robert Gates at June 29, 2012 06:15 AM (e8kgV)

211 Mr. Haney from Green Acres. Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 11:14 AM (052zE) LOL, and we all like Mr Haney.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 06:15 AM (9TTOe)

212 @186 That is correct, and Harry Reid should have been flogged in the public square for having the temerity to put that in the bill.  No Congress can bind future Congresses.  That clause is already inoperative, because there has been a new Congress seated since the law passed.  So technically this Congress could repeal the thing through reconciliation. 

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 06:16 AM (NYnoe)

213

Keep in mind the discussion is about constitutionality, not policy.

 

But that discussion is OVER. Unless you want to appeal to the UN or the Federation of Planets. Not to slight the importance, but to repeat: the issue of government health care was, is, and will always be a political one. If the court struck this law down, the Left would be at work TODAY drafting a government health care bill that addresses the court's objections.  In the end, the ruling does not matter.

 

As for momentum, the blogesphere cares much, much more about this court ruling than the average voter. Spending too  much time on blogs distorts our sense of what the rest of the country is talking about.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 06:16 AM (9KqcB)

214 "What do you think about the companies with waivers?" You mean small businesses? I'm fine with exempting them. They don't have the bargaining power that large employers have anyway. (That's why you set up exchanges)

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:16 AM (tyou3)

215 Just a reminder that a removal of the mandate with a continuation of the pre-existing condition provisions would lead to the death of the private insurance market and something far worse than Obamacare. I am skeptical that even much of this can be done in reconciliation or that Republicans have the political will to do it.

Posted by: Paper at June 29, 2012 06:16 AM (B5qn7)

216 "Obamacare does have a clause stating that repeal of the law requires a supermajority, but I don't see how that could stand." Where did you hear that? That's not remotely constitutional.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:17 AM (tyou3)

217 Thanks a lot, Roberts.

Posted by: Lauren at June 29, 2012 06:17 AM (3G1tU)

218 Posted by: RoyalOil at June 29, 2012 11:15 AM (kSaUf) I agree with you, everyone tripping over their dicks trying to pretzel logic Roberts' decision have no idea yet what really has happened.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 06:17 AM (UZQM8)

219 213 "What do you think about the companies with waivers?" You mean small businesses? I'm fine with exempting them. They don't have the bargaining power that large employers have anyway. (That's why you set up exchanges) Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 11:16 AM (tyou3) You suck as a troll....

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 06:18 AM (UZQM8)

220 Paul Carbone wants a single payor system where the government pays for all healthcare. "

You got me. I would want that. But that's not going to happen, so I'm cool with this Obamacare thing.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 11:10 AM (tyou3<<<<

 

Because you're an ignorant twat-scraping.  You wouldn't be able to get a family doctor, because they won't accept new patients.  They won't accept new patients because the government caps their compensation.  So then you'll have families using emergency rooms and walk in clinics as for their general practice needs while most General Practitioners are working three days a week.  People needing knee surgery are now painkiller addicts while they shamble around for two years on a broken drumstick waiting to get on the surgical schedule.

 

That's the reality of single-payer care, you dumb fuck.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 29, 2012 06:18 AM (U1kBg)

221 Absolutely it can be struck down with 51 votes in the Senate! It only need be shown that the repeal of Obamacare REDUCES the budget. The very SAME approach Democrats used to pass Obamacare!

Posted by: Win Some, Lose Some! But Mainly Lose. at June 29, 2012 06:19 AM (sv/s3)

222 You mean small businesses? I'm fine with exempting them. They don't have the bargaining power that large employers have anyway.


===============


Show me the small businesses that got waivers.  You're an idiot. 


The waivers went mostly to UNIONS!

Posted by: Tami at June 29, 2012 06:19 AM (X6akg)

223 Good news!  Georgia parents can text the USDA for free lunches for their kids (up to age 1 this summer.

http://tinyurl.com/85whjsh

"Officials say nearly 60 percent of children enrolled in Georgia public schools are eligible for free or reduced lunch, but only 15 percent of them participate in summer meal programs, meaning many often go hungry during the season."

"Many summer meals sites also offer fun learning and recreational activities."


Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 06:19 AM (UOM48)

224 212 Keep in mind the discussion is about constitutionality, not policy. But that discussion is OVER. Unless you want to appeal to the UN or the Federation of Planets.... Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 11:16 AM (9KqcB) "Attention all planets of the Solar Federation. We have assumed control."

Posted by: 2112 - Grand Finale at June 29, 2012 06:19 AM (136wp)

225 "How can HHS have the power to grant a tax waiver to thousands of companies?" I think your confusing the requirement that large employers provide coverage with the individual mandate.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:19 AM (tyou3)

226 "How can HHS have the power to grant a tax waiver to thousands of companies?" I think you're confusing the requirement that large employers provide coverage with the individual mandate.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:19 AM (tyou3)

227 Ya know, I need to clean my Glock. Wonder if it will rain today? Looking forward to Obama getting his ass kicked in November. I'm ready for colege football season.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 06:20 AM (GvYeG)

228 "Many summer meals sites also offer fun learning and recreational activities." Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 11:19 AM (UOM4 Sort of like Hitlers Nazi Youth camps?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 06:20 AM (9TTOe)

229 If the GOP still can't seem to name a single federal agency they would cut even one dollar from (NEA? PP? NPR? PBS?), I have to wonder how sincere they are about this repeal. We've been down this road with the Beltway GOP elite before. They always have an excuse. 1. "Times are prosperous so therefore we have no need to cut." 2. "Times are hard so we can't throw anyone out of work by making cuts." Rinse, lather, repeat.

Posted by: TooCon at June 29, 2012 06:21 AM (YcTIW)

230 143 CJ you put it very well. The economy could get better, and voters want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But he raised their taxes and lied. This hits everyone and especially the middle class. If you live in a big city with a higher cost of living, then your middle class income has you below the poverty line. Now you will be taxed even more. Even my lib friends on FB were figuring this out. First their kids have babies. Then they move to Austin, because they can't afford Cali. If they're in NYC, there's a 41% likelihood they have an abortion. The stupid just breaks my fucking heart. PS I'm on an iPhone and tussin. I know you can tell.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (i330i)

231

This decision rivals--and will likely exceed--Dred Scott in its pure evil.

 

Is there a way to take some deep breathes into a paper bag via the internet?

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (9KqcB)

232 You mean small businesses? I'm fine with exempting them. They don't have the bargaining power that large employers have anyway.

(That's why you set up exchanges)
Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 11:16 AM (tyou3)



Hey idiot,

Here is a list of "small" business who received waivers.

Have a nice fucking day assbag.

Link on  my name.


Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (iYbLN)

233

One of the more depressing aspects of this whole thing is that thug tactics and deception were rewarded.

 

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (qwK3S)

234 Nine months from now: Republican Senators: oh darn, we can't use reconciliation! Donate money so we can get a supermajority in 2014!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (tmzN0)

235 Why would the budgetary impact prevent reconciliation? At the time because of revenue raising gimmicks the bill was basically scored as revenue neutral. Some of those gimmicks are already gone like requiring businesses to submit endless 1099s for purchases. The CBO currently score the law as increasing the deficit. Repealing the law as is would reduce the deficit. So why wouldn't reconciliation work for a deficit reducing bill?

Posted by: Reconcile already at June 29, 2012 06:22 AM (1tWIQ)

236 Paulie, WTH do you know about small businesses, or any businesses for that matter?

My husband owns a small business and may well have to let his employees health insurance go.  He doesn't want to but is waiting to see what this shit sandwich your boy god has hidden within Obamatax.

You suck as a troll.  Get back under the stairs.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (UOM48)

237 "Show me the small businesses that got waivers." Businesses with fewer than 50 employees are exempt. That's why I asked if that's what you were referring to. "Didn't that guy get thrown out the window?" It was cool when he threw defenestrated that mincer.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (tyou3)

238 and Harry Reid should have been flogged in the public square


I'm all in for flogging that wheezy asthmatic sounding pile of garbage smelling of cat-pee and mildew until his dowager hump becomes man boobs.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny solidarity) at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (HqfLg)

239 No need to insult me, dickhead, I haven't read the thread. "It's going to even harder to achieve our goals" is not an explanation, it's an assertion. To the extent it's readable. If you can explain it, however, I can understand it.
Plan A was always repeal. Plan B was an afterthought.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 29, 2012 11:14 AM (mdhVr)

 

I wasn't insulting you.  You said you weren't following the logic of a post that was in the context of a comment thread.  I explained it and pointed out that it was in a comment thread. 

 

And no shit it's an assertion.  How many of those get made here on a daily basis, 2, maybe 2 thousand, including the posts?

 

I'm asserting that our failure at Plan B might have caused more damage than anticipated.  Am I allowed to do that?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (rX1N2)

240 213 "What do you think about the companies with waivers?"

You mean small businesses? I'm fine with exempting them. They don't have the bargaining power that large employers have anyway.

(That's why you set up exchanges)   small businesses like mcdonalds? jack in the box? uft? you fucking moron...

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 06:23 AM (TKF1Y)

241 but only 15 percent of them participate in summer meal programs, meaning many often go hungry during the season. You can spot the hungry because they are so fat.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (QupBk)

242 Link on my name. Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 11:22 AM (iYbLN) I get a 404-Not Found on the link

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (136wp)

243 Prince Blogward: I have declared Carbone Troll my high counselor.

Longshanks: Is he qualified?


Carbone Troll: I am skilled in the arts of blog and troll tactics, Sire.

Longshanks: Are you? Then tell me, what bullshit would you offer on the present situation?

Throws him out the blog window

Posted by: Braveheart Blog at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (YdQQY)

244 Link broke.

Go to:  http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com/

in search box type waiver

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (iYbLN)

245 **** you, Olympia Snowe. Cannot be said enough.

Posted by: Ward of the State #3673295A at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (fWqsc)

246 RoyalOil: "Let that sink in, you turds: Chief Justice Roberts yesterday coronated the federal government as our King." And all we had to give up was state sovereignty and citizen sovereignty. Dang, what a deal.

Posted by: TooCon at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (YcTIW)

247

235 "Show me the small businesses that got waivers."

Businesses with fewer than 50 employees are exempt. That's why I asked if that's what you were referring to.

 

exempt isnt the same as a waiver your arrogant assclown.

Posted by: chas at June 29, 2012 06:24 AM (TKF1Y)

248 What John Roberts (and the rest of us) KNOWS: Republicans will keep the House. Republicans will take the Senate. The only piece missing in the repeal of Obamacare in 2013? A President who will sign it! Roberto's opinion boils down to just 5 words: IT'S UP TO YOU AMERICA!

Posted by: Win Some, Lose Some! But Mainly Lose. at June 29, 2012 06:25 AM (ZBjRZ)

249 It seems to me that some thoughtful analysis can connect almost every part of BambiCare to a tax -- and the SCOTUS has ruled that the mandates are a tax -- and so reconciliation can be used to toss out the truly noxious parts of it. The states can refuse to implement the rest, since they can't be threatened with complete loss of Medicaid funds -- SCOTUS said so -- and thus, while the whole bill cannot be destroyed right away, it can be rendered essentially toothless by the first year of President Romney's term and then completely replaced by his second year.

It's interesting that Paulie "the Chin" Carbone is putting so much effort into demoralizing us. It's almost as if he's saying "no, don't do that thing that would work quite well. Just relax. Relax and don't struggle." It's almost like he knows how vulnerable BambiCare is and is trying to pretend it isn't.

(The fact that he's just smilin' happy with the fact that the president lied to get it passed is just confirmation of the whole "by any means necessary" leftist mindset, but that's neither here nor there.)

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at June 29, 2012 06:25 AM (RD7QR)

250

Violence is never the answer.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at June 29, 2012 06:25 AM (qwK3S)

251 Finally realized who Trey Gowdy sounds exactly like.

Mr. Haney from Green Acres.


***

He doubled-down on FNC this morning. He said something about being called on the carpet and mentioned his "mind-numbingly stupid" remark. Then he immediately followed up and repeated it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at June 29, 2012 06:25 AM (piMMO)

252 "My husband owns a small business and may well have to let his employees health insurance go." That's obvious crap.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:25 AM (tyou3)

253 218 213 "What do you think about the companies with waivers?" You mean small businesses? I'm fine with exempting them. They don't have the bargaining power that large employers have anyway. (That's why you set up exchanges) Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 11:16 AM (tyou3) You suck as a troll.... Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 11:18 AM I see what you did there.

Posted by: Meme Guy that sees what cajun carrot did there... at June 29, 2012 06:26 AM (UZQM8)

254 Taco pizza sounds good too. November.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 06:26 AM (GvYeG)

255 You suck as a troll. Get back under the stairs.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 11:23 AM (UOM4


Hey!!!! What the f*ck did we do?

Posted by: The Stairs at June 29, 2012 06:26 AM (fWqsc)

256

Why do so many people think the GOP won't have the stomach to repeal this POS?  Not one of them voted for it, and those who were elected in 2010 were elcted mostly because their constituents hated it and threw out the Dems that voted for it.  Democrats other than Nancy Pelosi are running away from it as fast as they can, even today.  I doubt any of them have ever in their careers seen a piece of legislation that has been this hated by the public.  I'm 54 years old and I sure don't remember one that even comes close in my lifetime. 

 

It was a foolish bill passed by a dubious process based on a ton of lies.  ANYTHING the Republicans put up in its place will be better, and will be preceieved better by the public, so long as it is done honestly and with true numbers. 

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 06:26 AM (NYnoe)

257 Republican Senators say they're eyeing just this tactic. I wonder what on earth would stay their hand, though, except a desire to betray their voters. You mean the way Roberts just betrayed conservatives? Imagine that.

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 29, 2012 06:26 AM (niZvt)

258

>>><<<<Because you're an ignorant twat-scraping. You wouldn't be able to get a family doctor, because they won't accept new patients. They won't accept new patients because the government caps their compensation. So then you'll have families using emergency rooms and walk in clinics as for their general practice needs while most General Practitioners are working three days a week. People needing knee surgery are now painkiller addicts while they shamble around for two years on a broken drumstick waiting to get on the surgical schedule.That's the reality of single-payer care, you dumb fuck.

 

Word

Posted by: Canada at June 29, 2012 06:26 AM (BrQrN)

259 Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 11:24 AM (QupBk)

Ah yes....America. Where the poor have only one flat screen HD TV, and it isn't 3D capable! And their cars are not equipped with bluetooth speakers for their cell phones.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (nEUpB)

260 Paulie, what are you, 14?  Get back under the stairs, you ignorant twit.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (UOM48)

261 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 29, 2012 11:18 AM (U1kBg)

You said it, EoJ!  Case in point - look at the shitstorm that happened with the Military made changes to the payment system to Tricare... providers dropped out of it quicker that a 600 point NYSE drop.

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (Jls4P)

262 Its amazing how many unions get the waiver.

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (iYbLN)

263 252 Well played.

Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (GvYeG)

264

exempt isnt the same as a waiver your arrogant assclown

 

Stop using big words the troll doesn't understand.........like assclown.

 

Call him dim.......he gets that.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at June 29, 2012 06:27 AM (OWjjx)

265  
     The interval between now and November is going to be a gang of fun.  Think nanny Bloomberg on a FEDERAL level.

      It would not surprise me to see the Tea Party protests reenacted across the land in huge numbers.   With total justification.

Posted by: irongrampa at June 29, 2012 06:28 AM (SAMxH)

266 Feeding the provincial rube will not make him smarter.

Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2012 06:28 AM (QupBk)

267 To use your own words and a few of mine. I just think it's funny that Carbone is completely incapable of getting even basic facts right and is a douchnozzle. Douchnozzle was mine.

Posted by: polynikes at June 29, 2012 06:28 AM (hdGdp)

268

Roberto's opinion boils down to just 5 words:

IT'S UP TO YOU AMERICA!

 

Posted by: Win Some, Lose Some! But Mainly Lose. at June 29, 2012 11:25 AM (ZBjRZ)

 

I prefer these five words to describe Roberts' opinion:

 

OBAMA LIED, IT'S A TAX

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 06:28 AM (NYnoe)

269 Violence is never the answer.

We respectfully disagree.

Posted by: Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, et. al at June 29, 2012 06:28 AM (8y9MW)

270 Another new healthcare thread up. Time to close this one.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 06:29 AM (YdQQY)

271 One one hand, I don't like the reconciliation process as a method of passing bills.
On the other hand, fuck'em. The system is bleeding and broken. Maybe a bandage like using reconciliation to reverse O-care is gonna be needed to help stave off the complete collapse of  our system and way of life then I say use it. Progressivsim ( that even spelled right?? )has systematically been destroying the country. Maybe we need to use a few tools to get repsonsibility back into government until real Constitutional fixes can be made to prevent these kinds of problems in the future.
Or maybe we're just staving off the inevitable decline. Then fine, if that's all we're able to do then that's all we can do.  Unfortunately there isn't a Galt's Gulch to rebuild society, so we do the best as we can.

Posted by: Janir at June 29, 2012 06:29 AM (VGU7i)

272

223 Good news! Georgia parents can text the USDA for free lunches for their kids (up to age 18 ) this summer.

 

---------

 

What about all the kids between 18 and 26? Will no one think about *them*?



 

Posted by: Anachronda at June 29, 2012 06:29 AM (FzhYM)

273 Wouldn't we only need 50 seats? Presumably, Romney's VP would cast the deciding vote for repeal.

Posted by: A Reasonable Man at June 29, 2012 06:29 AM (xxqLI)

274 261 exempt isnt the same as a waiver your arrogant assclown Stop using big words the troll doesn't understand.........like assclown. Call him dim.......he gets that. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at June 29, 2012 11:27 AM (OWjjx) Yea, an assclown is his Uncle Davie dressing up for his fifth birthday like John Wayne Gacy

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at June 29, 2012 06:30 AM (136wp)

275

Why do so many people think the GOP won't have the stomach to repeal this POS?

 

Um, because they never do anything they're supposed to?

 

Hell, LAST ELECTION they turned $100B in cuts into $3B in decreases to the rate of increase and called it a victory.

 

Why do you trust a goddamn thing they say when they have been repeatedly verified to be shameless liars?

Posted by: entropy at June 29, 2012 06:30 AM (TULs6)

276

"But that discussion is OVER."

 

Right, but the discussion of its ramifications are not, and I'm pretty sure that's what's happening. 

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 06:30 AM (rX1N2)

277

143 CJ you put it very well. The economy could get better, and voters want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But he raised their taxes and lied.

 

Used to be, when you caught a politician in a lie about raising taxes, it was bad news for them. But that was back in the old days, prior to June 28, 2012 when Life as We Know it Ended.

Posted by: CJ at June 29, 2012 06:30 AM (9KqcB)

278 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 11:29 AM (YdQQY)

Thanks for doing the thinking for the rest of us.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 06:31 AM (nEUpB)

279 If you mean annual limit waivers, those weren't just granted to unions. You can go the HHS website and see the requirements for it.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:31 AM (tyou3)

280 @228


The GOP does not and probably will not have the necessary numbers to repeal it.

The executive can kill it through non-implementation. The Governors can try to hamper it through non-compliance. And so on.

The main objective is to change the CEO of America.

Posted by: General Woundwort at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (06lNq)

281

Wait, I haven't been paying much attention to the troll, but wasn't he saying something about us not being acquainted with basic facts, but wasn't aware that the Dems put a supermajority rule for overturning it in the law?

 

Silly trolls.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (rX1N2)

282

223 Good news! Georgia parents can text the USDA for free lunches for their kids ( up to age 18 ) this summer.
...
"Many summer meals sites also offer fun learning and recreational activities."
 
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 11:19 AM (UOM4


Well all right!

I can't tell you the number of times in my childhood during my summer vaction I secretly longed to be trucked to a government faculity, fed government fare and engage in govenment-worker, mass-organized "fun learning and recrational activites."

The PB and J sandwiches eaten as fished down at the creek pale in comparison to institutional food and a "drug-are-bad" lecture.

Posted by: Warthog at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (WDySP)

283 276

Asshole, look at the whole list.

Damn you are one dense fuck.

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (iYbLN)

284 256 Posted by: toby928© at June 29, 2012 11:24 AM (QupBk) Ah yes....America. Where the poor have only one flat screen HD TV, and it isn't 3D capable! And their cars are not equipped with bluetooth speakers for their cell phones. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 11:27 AM (nEUpB) Well... we DO give them Obamaphones now, ya know.

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (niZvt)

285 Posted by: A Reasonable Man at June 29, 2012 11:29 AM (xxqLI)

There are traitors in our midst.

Graham, the remaining Maine sister, etc.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (nEUpB)

286 101 Anyone else find it odd that America's first black President has turned us into slaves?

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (Cadn7)


Vengeance is his.  He thinks he's God.

Posted by: baldilocks at June 29, 2012 06:32 AM (6kWFm)

287

Question.... all Taxes must be Equal throughout these United States.

 

If there is an Obama Care Waiver, for an entire State, and this is a Tax, how does that pass?

 

Question.... you cannot have religious exemptions for a Tax, as this would favor one religion over another... Obamacare has RELGIOUS exemptions in it... ergo, how can it pass as a TAX?

 

These very fundamental questions were not addressed by Congress, because they said it was NOT a Tax... and Mr. Roberts does not address these fundamental Tax issues, when he decides it is indeed, suddenly, a Tax.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 06:34 AM (lZBBB)

288 Morning, Patriots. Let's vent the anger, and then get busy. We have one door out of this, and it's the election in November. We can win this with dedication commitment and hard work. That's only the first step: never again in our life times will be able to sit on our laurels and " go back to living our lives". We have to take back our country. Thru grassroots, education, persuasion, feet on the ground. Whatever it takes. We are not supposed to be a nation of pussies or whiners. We did not get to this place in one election cycle. I don't know about you, but I can't NOT fight. So please, start where you are, do what you can. Quit bitching about Romney. He's who we've got. It does not end there anyway. Let's Roll!

Posted by: small town girl at June 29, 2012 06:34 AM (q7YYY)

289 Businesses with fewer than 50 employees are exempt. That's why I asked if that's what you were referring to.




Wow...you truly are an idiot.  Exempt does NOT equal waiver. 

Posted by: Tami at June 29, 2012 06:36 AM (X6akg)

290 "Wait, I haven't been paying much attention to the troll, but wasn't he saying something about us not being acquainted with basic facts, but wasn't aware that the Dems put a supermajority rule for overturning it in the law?" Yeah, because that's not actually true. That's just some crap Eric Erickson said. The actual Section 3403 has to do with the Medicare Advisory Board, not repealing Obamacare.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:37 AM (tyou3)

291 @284, that stuff doesn't mean it isnt a tax, it means that other parts of the law are probably unconstitutional under equal protection, as are the waivers.  But these parts of the law were not challnged.  But they still could be, once the tax is actually levied on anyone.  So could the waivers.  In fact, someone who was denied a waiver already has standing to challenge the legality of the waivers now.

Posted by: rockmom at June 29, 2012 06:37 AM (NYnoe)

292 In the long run we need to win the future by getting at the kids in the schools. That's how Liberals ultimately got Obama elected: it took 30 years of their liberal bullshit indoctrination of our kids in the public schools to turn them into the mindless Obamabot Drones that voted Chicago Jesus into power. If you're a young conservative career considering a career path... become an educator. And hammer home your politics to the kiddies every second of the day.

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 29, 2012 06:37 AM (niZvt)

293 "Exempt does NOT equal waiver. " Just asked a question. Annual limit waivers didn't just go to unions.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:38 AM (tyou3)

294 I weep for the pancakes I'm leaving for my spatula.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at June 29, 2012 06:38 AM (Qxdfp)

295 148 I wonder what Jackson-Lee and the rest of the miserable CBC would've done if Brian Terry had been a black man.

Posted by: Lady in Black - ObamaTaxCare opponent - This means war, bitchez at June 29, 2012 11:03 AM (vOMX+)


Nothing. A black Border Patrol Officer is, to them, a tool of the White Mantm.

Posted by: baldilocks at June 29, 2012 06:39 AM (6kWFm)

296 I prefer these five words to describe Roberts' opinion: OBAMA LIED, IT'S A TAX ----------------------------------- That works for me too! It's up to us, yet again, to point this fact out because the MSM is burying it.

Posted by: Win Some, Lose Some! But Mainly Lose. at June 29, 2012 06:39 AM (Kqtqx)

297 @284: I really don't think legal arguments mean ANYTHING in the courts, anymore. All that matters is the personal ideology of the Justice. The actual legal opinions write themselves.

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 29, 2012 06:40 AM (niZvt)

298 It's good you guys finally realized Lindsey Graham is a homo.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:40 AM (tyou3)

299

Damn you are one dense fuck.

 

See........now this he gets. Good job, mpfs

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at June 29, 2012 06:41 AM (OWjjx)

300 "Question.... you cannot have religious exemptions for a Tax, as this would favor one religion over another... Obamacare has RELGIOUS exemptions in it... ergo, how can it pass as a TAX?" You realize religious institutions already get tax exemptions, right? If you only gave them to one religion, that would violate the establishment clause, but that's not the case before Obamacare or after.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:44 AM (tyou3)

301

I really don't think legal arguments mean ANYTHING in the courts, anymore.

They don't. Which is why all this talk of Roberts being super-sneaky is bull. None of it is binding on anything. They rule the way they want to rule.

Posted by: entropy at June 29, 2012 06:44 AM (TULs6)

302 295 It's good you guys finally realized Lindsey Graham is a homo. ------------------------------- Our "homos" are ok. Your " homos" don't know how to act in public.

Posted by: Win Some, Lose Some! But Mainly Lose. at June 29, 2012 06:45 AM (Kqtqx)

303 It's hard to tell if Grahm is homosexual unlike Barney Frank who had a homo whorehouse run out if his home. By the way, how much did they charge you for a visit there Carbone?

Posted by: polynikes at June 29, 2012 06:46 AM (hdGdp)

304 #297 basic facts do not appear to be your friend Carbone. You're beclowning yourself constantly.

Posted by: polynikes at June 29, 2012 06:48 AM (hdGdp)

305 Can Paper address #233?

Posted by: talkin to myself at June 29, 2012 06:49 AM (1tWIQ)

306

It's hard to tell if Grahm is homosexual

 

Please stop by your local Gaydar dealer and licensed service center and we'll get that fixed right up for you.

Posted by: entropy at June 29, 2012 06:49 AM (TULs6)

307 Yeah, your homos really know how to behave in public. Like Larry Craig.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 06:51 AM (tyou3)

308 One of my friends is up for a government job.  All my other friends were like "wow, if he gets that job, he's set for life".   Now, my mom drummed into us not to take government jobs as they, when she came out of school, were low paying and the "pot smoking loser kids", took them.  That was/is her view.  Not saying it was/is correct but she feels/felt that way.  Now I asked my friends why this is such a fabulous opportunity and not the private sector.  They told me the pay is good, the moving stipend is great, the benefits keep you out of obamacaretax and you get to move to the place where real estate never went down and the values of property continued going up, the DC area. 

It was very exasperating.  The "private sector hasn't done so well, has it?" meme is rampant, rampant.  I tried to explain to them that this was at the behest of the public sector/the government and its employees.  I tried to explain to them that the government and its employees have been putting more and more regulation on private business that it's strangling them.  So then they hit me with "the bankers have practically destroyed this country" meme.  I then explained about Clinton and the dems demanding that mortgages be given even if you were unqualified to receive them and the entire ensuing consequences. 

I made some in roads but they are so brain washed that they are having trouble even fathoming the idea that government can be wrong. 

So I'm thinking that the romney camp needs to do a bunch of those chinese animation thingies....and a couple of music videos or at least something as clever as the kaynes versus hayek stuff.  Something to attract the attention of the teens to thirties group.  They could be on explaining the Constitution and why it is important, but short, their attention spans are as fast as it takes to click the mouse.  

Yesterday someone caught the screen shot of CNN getting it wrong.  Now, the only one who got it right was the SCOTUS blog.  Drudge got it wrong, Fox got it wrong, the list goes on and on.  When Amy said "i'm trying to figure out how to parse this", I knew Drudge et al got it wrong.  Even the president was told the wrong outcome.  Point is, this CNN got it wrong meme is going around to everyone's fb and email and they are getting angry with CNN..turning on them.   Between the people who can no longer afford the cable bill and the young who caught the great CNN SCOTUS lie, don't know how CNN can survive, there ratings will be unmeasurable.

Point is, people need to be re educated on what is the truth, what is right, what the founders envisioned.  When Beck started charging, for that group, he didn't cut it.  They tuned him out and tuned off. 

sy syms said "an educated consumer is your best customer" and the romney camp ought to realize this and react.

Posted by: starry at June 29, 2012 06:53 AM (oZfic)

309 Reconciliation hell.

Romney can undo it with an executive order.

Obamacare allows the President to make exceptions for states and businesses.

Simply except all individuals, states, and businesses from Obamacare. Then remove the exception for politicians and all local, state, and federal government employees.

See how fast Congress repeals the fucker at that point.

Posted by: Kristopher at June 29, 2012 06:56 AM (0aV2C)

310 304 Yeah, your homos really know how to behave in public. Like Larry Craig. ------------------------------ He was in a private stall........ And he has a wide stance.

Posted by: Win Some, Lose Some! But Mainly Lose. at June 29, 2012 06:57 AM (bnAKg)

311 Larry Craig did not sodomize a page and get reelected in spite of it. Dems sure like their NAMBLA guys.

Posted by: polynikes at June 29, 2012 06:57 AM (hdGdp)

312 That other case, with the guy who lied about military service.  Is it possible that lying about military service among the political class is so widespread and rampant that they would be opening a can of worms if they let the law stand?

Posted by: starry at June 29, 2012 06:58 AM (oZfic)

313 These very fundamental questions were not addressed by Congress, because they said it was NOT a Tax... and Mr. Roberts does not address these fundamental Tax issues, when he decides it is indeed, suddenly, a Tax. Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 11:34 AM (lZBBB) Mark Levin tore Roberts apart on the tax point. LandMark Legal actually filed a brief with the court explaining why it was not and could not be a tax. None of that mattered. Roberts needed a way to make this law pass muster, so he corrupted 'tax', rewrote the law, and found new powers (taxing inactivity) that were never contemplated in the Constitution that is supposed to LIMIT the Federal Government. He said himself that the dissenters were too hung up on labels. He, like little Jugear McQueef, have now decided that 'I am the law!'

Posted by: Contintental Army at June 29, 2012 06:59 AM (x7g7t)

314 I recall Republican screeching about how undemocratic and unconstitutional reconciliation was during the health care debate.

Posted by: JEA at June 29, 2012 07:04 AM (hxLER)

315 @JEA and yet it was still passed via reconciliation.

You pass it by unconstitutional means, we can repeal it by unconstitutional means.  Sucks being held to your own standards, dunnit?

Posted by: seguin at June 29, 2012 07:05 AM (I9Y5V)

316 It wasn't passed by reconciliation, dude. That was only the second bill.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 07:07 AM (tyou3)

317 And the filibuster isn't in the constitution. It's a matter of senate rules.

Posted by: Paul Carbone at June 29, 2012 07:10 AM (tyou3)

318 If Romney wins, we just need 50 votes with Bobby Jindal's tie-breaking vote as president of the senate. If Romney loses it's all moot.

Posted by: Carol at June 29, 2012 07:17 AM (RRBNP)

319 "though there would still be some components that may be difficult to repeal in practice because of how the law is already reaching into policy implementation at the federal and state level." This is the drum everyone will beat from now until past the election. It will be too "chaotic" to repeal.....be "reasonable".......let's work within the existing framework..........don't be so extreme.......President Romney, the MSM, the Dems, and most especially the GOP leadership.

Posted by: Quiz1 at June 29, 2012 07:18 AM (uPYEJ)

320 Live by reconciliation; die by reconciliation. Turnabout is fair play.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 29, 2012 07:24 AM (XvHmy)

321 Reconciliation: It's a BFD

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 29, 2012 07:24 AM (XvHmy)

322 I'm always pissed off when someone says that the left "can't have it both ways." OF COURSE THEY CAN, and do, regularly. They can have it any number of ways. Whatever advances their cause is the only consistent standard they subject themselves to.

Posted by: SamIam at June 29, 2012 07:59 AM (VDpzM)

323 I don't think ObamaCare was passed by reconciliation. Is there a link for that?

Posted by: JohnJ at June 29, 2012 08:05 AM (qmDG7)

324 Superb post, EVERYbody needs to read this. Linked at my rag, fwiw

Posted by: Reaganite Republican at June 29, 2012 08:50 AM (qfiA8)

325 How about this … "If you want to get rid of Obamacare, you have to get rid on the Senators that put it there."

Posted by: Barry Jr at June 29, 2012 10:26 AM (n9F1h)

326 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 29, 2012 02:49 PM (Xb3hu)

327 So, maybe Roberts isn't the traitor we thought he was.

He set this up like putting a golf ball on the tee.

Tee party!

Posted by: Great Reagan's Ghost at June 29, 2012 06:00 PM (LsJAk)

328 liberals have no shame, and they fight dirty. they won this one, and unfortunately, this bill will not be repealed. there is no way. we're fucked. period. and chief roberts is a fucking god damned piece of shit asshole. he has single handedly fucked this country BIG TIME.  we won't take congress with a large enough margin to repeal this, and romney? oh romney will just cut a deal. the bill might be amended, but it will remain. i am so disgusted by this supreme court ruling, and roberts, omg, what a piece of shit. what a f-ing piece of shit he is.

Posted by: mistress overdone at June 29, 2012 08:53 PM (2/oBD)

329 "Republican Senators say they're eyeing just this tactic."

I believe it.

When it comes to administering the coup de grâce, the Republicans typically just can't find it within themselves to carry it out.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at June 29, 2012 10:32 PM (4s7w4)

330 NOW we are a tax liability to all of you.....My wife and I have always paid our medical bills in full at the time of treatment. *I* care about MY credit rating so I make sure to keep MY bills paid. We are ZERO liability on the state for medical purposes. Looking at the OboboCare numbers our insurance will run nearly $10,000 a year for the two of us and the TAX PAYERS will subsidize about $7500 of that from what I can tell. ObOzOcArE just turned a couple who WERENT costing the PEOPLE a single dime into a $7500 liabilty......GO OBAMA !!!

Posted by: MaddMukker at June 30, 2012 07:18 PM (Xjg8Z)

331 "they won this one, and unfortunately, this bill will not be repealed. there is no way. we're fucked. period."
=========================================================
Thankfully MOST of us aren't that spineless. This law WILL be repealed....or gutted so badly that the Dems will be begging for repeal. Count on it. Anyone who thinks otherwise should look back to prohibition. The majority of states have already started fighting it and wont rest until this $#%T law is dead....

Posted by: MaddMukker at June 30, 2012 07:21 PM (Xjg8Z)

332 Something you Dems fail to comprehend...or dont want to...is that your messiah in chief was set up by the SCOTUS.
Roberts played the idiot liberal justices like a worn out violin.
Now he's been made liar yet again...and not just a liar this time but THE president who gave us all THE BIGGEST tax increase in American history.

People I know who didnt even give a shit about politics heard this 'tax' story and now they are actually registering to vote to get Obozos' ass out in November.

Your idiot president should have laid low until after being reelected. He should have kept this from getting to the SCOTUS somehow until later in the year, if he had any way of doing it.

As it stands Fast and Furious is going to bury his chances....but with the ObamaTax also going on during election season, Roberts just handed Romney the White House.

Posted by: MaddMukker at June 30, 2012 07:26 PM (Xjg8Z)

333 "This is the drum everyone will beat from now until past the election. It will be too "chaotic" to repeal.....be "reasonable".......let's work within the existing framework..........don't be so extreme.......President Romney, the MSM, the Dems, and most especially the GOP leadership."
==========================================================
Not a chance. The whole law has to go. We're not going to stop until it is repealed or gutted so badly that it serves no purpose.
We dont want to be 'reasonable' in the way you seem to mean it....ie just ignoring this monstrosity and hoping for the best.
Its a job killer because corporations are too damned scared to hire or expand because of the complexity of this worthless ass law.
No hiring = shit economy. Business runs this economy so we have to do what business wants or we'll ALL be on the non-existent bread lines soon.

Posted by: MaddMukker at June 30, 2012 07:32 PM (Xjg8Z)

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