June 29, 2012

Issa Puts Wiretaps Detailing Official Knowledge of Gunwalking Tactics Into Congressional Record
— Ace

This is that red-banner headline Drudge has -- but the site is overloaded and can't be reached.

But JohnE. reached it earlier, and sent it by email.

This is from Roll Call. Update: Link now appears to be working.

Darrell Issa Puts Details of Secret Wiretap Applications in Congressional Record

By Jonathan Strong
Roll Call Staff
June 29, 2012, 12:06 p.m.

...

The wiretap applications are under court seal, and releasing such information to the public would ordinarily be illegal. But Issa appears to be protected by the Speech or Debate Clause in the Constitution, which offers immunity for Congressional speech, especially on a chamber’s floor.

According to the letter, the wiretap applications contained a startling amount of detail about the operation, which would have tipped off anyone who read them closely about what tactics were being used.

Holder and Cummings have both maintained that the wiretap applications did not contain such details and that the applications were reviewed narrowly for probable cause, not for whether any investigatory tactics contained followed Justice Department policy.

The wiretap applications were signed by senior DOJ officials in the department’s criminal division, including Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Kenneth Blanco and another official who is now deceased.

...


The tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes [???], was condemned after two guns that were part of the operation were found at U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder scene.

What? That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes).

Is that now established?

How do you track guns without tracking them? A: Apparently you just wait until they're used to kill people, then you know where they ended up.


I can't quote it all; even though their site is currently unreachable, I'm still constrained by Fair Use. But check the link at Drudge periodically.

Posted by: Ace at 09:08 AM | Comments (475)
Post contains 362 words, total size 3 kb.

1 No words.  The Terry family is coming up on Fox with Megyn soon.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:10 AM (UOM48)

2 A good point was made by a caller to Rush's show the other day--who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene?

Who would do that, and why would it make sense?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 09:11 AM (i0App)

3 This sounds like the crack of the whip...

Posted by: SurferDoc at June 29, 2012 09:11 AM (6H6FZ)

4 So that is why Issa was determined to get a floor vote. The truth always comes out.

Posted by: That is a BFD at June 29, 2012 09:12 AM (x8Wor)

5

I'm a big fan of the Speech and Debate clause quite often. It's like Sunshine in a bottle.

Wanna declassify some information that the adminstration is blocking you on.  BAM! Congressional record.

Posted by: tsrblke at June 29, 2012 09:13 AM (22rSN)

6
Don't think of that stuff in your mouth as goo. Think of it as a penalty.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:13 AM (G/zuv)

7 ho
lee
sh!t

Issa's drip-drip-drip is delectable... oh for Breitbart to be here to see this!

Posted by: massideas at June 29, 2012 09:13 AM (qF3P2)

8 So to Chinless Wonder, Brian Terry's death was a feature, not a bug?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:13 AM (UOM48)

9 1) Force sale of guns to track 2) ???? 3) Find guns at crime scene. Fucking eh man....

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 09:13 AM (UZQM8)

10 Contempt.Bitches.BFT.November.

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:14 AM (GvYeG)

11
Please refer to Mr. Holder by his proper title...

...and that is Proxy Murderer Eric Holder

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at June 29, 2012 09:14 AM (HmCnI)

12 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure...

Posted by: Bill from Chappaqua at June 29, 2012 09:14 AM (Bxm/r)

13

O/T

Damn it! Now I'm really pissed. The local station interupted Judge Judy to cover the SCOAMF landing in the Springs to photo op the fire.

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at June 29, 2012 09:14 AM (W3UHW)

14 Even more proof that Holder has committed perjury.  Why is he not being prosecuted? 


Oh, he is not a baseball player lying to a Democrat panel and he is shielded by blackdemocratium, the strongest shield in the universe.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 09:14 AM (YdQQY)

15 Naked Gun methodology.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 09:15 AM (AWmfW)

16 Many moons ago I said something like how could you not know that selling murder guns to murderous drug lords would not result in murder.

Yes, it was the intent and it was evil.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 29, 2012 09:15 AM (EtuU3)

17

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 02:11 PM (i0App)

Well, sometimes you can't carry both the gun and the cannoli.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at June 29, 2012 09:15 AM (nZvGM)

18
1. Give away guns to criminals
2. Watch people die
3. Feign outrage over gun violence

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:15 AM (G/zuv)

19 Ask about our Indian arrowhead study program.

Posted by: Gen. George Custer at June 29, 2012 09:15 AM (QKKT0)

20 Terry family coming up on Fox now......

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:16 AM (UOM48)

21 I heard "According to the letter, the wiretap applications contained a startling amount of detail about the operation, BOY."

Posted by: Maureen Dowd at June 29, 2012 09:16 AM (PReJ3)

22 Howdy Mr. Holder... Looks like you and me are cell mates... and I do mean mates biotch

Posted by: Bob's Country Bunker at June 29, 2012 09:16 AM (Bxm/r)

23 Have Holder figured out where the guns came from ?.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 09:16 AM (AWmfW)

24
Where is Holder, anyway?


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:16 AM (G/zuv)

25 Terry's cousin on with Megyn.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (UOM48)

26 Holy. Balls. Track them by finding them at crime scenes. Who cares about the dead Mexicans. RACISTS

Posted by: DarrenODaly at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (wDAwT)

27 wow, just wow...

Posted by: trailortrash at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (xllDV)

28 This post needs a chinless flaming skull.

Posted by: ErikW at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (k0ks4)

29 God made Man.

Samuel Colt made him equal.

Eric Holder said "Fuck you Sammy!" and 300 Mexicans died.

Posted by: Ghost of Col. Cooper at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (Ld6wA)

30 Cummings can't introduce anything exculpatory from the sealed documents if he is not on the floor of the House because he is not protected by the Speech and Debate Clause. Guess he shouldn't have walked out.

Posted by: That is a BFD at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (x8Wor)

31 "2) ????"

I think the ???? you're looking for there is "Instruct your agents to leave your guns at the crime scenes they generate for the purpose of leaving your guns at them."

It's the least implausible "????"—unless there was no plan but "Here. Kill. It pleases us."

Posted by: nope at June 29, 2012 09:17 AM (cePv8)

32 The tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes [???], was condemned after two guns that were part of the operation were found at U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder scene. What? That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes). Is that now established? This. This is so chilling. But it makes perfect sense now that Obama and Holder are completely ignoring Brian Terry and his family. I cannot begin to imagine what kind of person thinks it is okay for people to die, in order to make a political point.

Posted by: moki at June 29, 2012 09:18 AM (dZmFh)

33 God, my heart just breaks for the Terry family.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:18 AM (UOM48)

34 28 well played.

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:18 AM (GvYeG)

35 Ends justify the means, baby. 

And I still wonder why Hitler was called Right Wing.  The left seems to kill a heckuvalot more than the right.

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 09:18 AM (UK9cE)

36

 

So the Intent all along....was to get people killed.

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 09:18 AM (jPxSq)

37    Just a heads up, there is a new CNN/Fortune magazine article that supposedly tells the real 'truth' behind Fast and Furious.  As you can imagine, it claims the whole thing is just a Republican witch-hunt cooked up by Issa and Grassley.


   Here is my take on the whole thing.  I don't give a rat's ass which party was responsible.  If an investigation discovers that a bunch of Bush people, or hell, even George W. himself was responsible for Jaime Zapata, Brian Terry and a whole legion of Mexican civilians getting killed with U.S. firearms, then I say throw the friggin' book at them.  I really don't care, I just want to know the truth.  Whoever signed off on this shitty operation needs to be held accountable, Dem, Repub, whatever.

    Which is why the Democrats are confusing the hell out of me.  They usually love whistleblowers.  They tend to like federal investigations into governmental screw-ups, especially if it makes guns look bad in any way.  Remember, there was a brief panic when Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot that it might have been a Fast and Furious gun that was used.  I would imagine that that piece of info right there would have triggered at least some interest from Democrats.

    But oddly, to Democrats (and Juan Williams gave the best example of this), their whole attitude is "Nope, nothing to see here, this was just some mistakes, move along people, no need to look at these documents or anything".


    The truth will come out, I think, eventually.  Might take a few years, probably past the election.  But I'm okay with that.  Like I said, I want to know what the fuck happened and I really don't care if the people who screwed it up (or covered it up) have a (D) or (R) next to their name. 

Posted by: Pave Low John at June 29, 2012 09:18 AM (nplVL)

38

Ace - excellent work as usual brother.

New Media will expose this which will transcend Obamacare's ostensible "victory" and will further provide a clear and detailed memorandum of how lawless this administration is.

... And don't forget... we haven't even discussed the momentum gaining on the National Security Leaks and the call for a Special Counsel.

 

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:19 AM (WzLTm)

39 I like the cut of this Issa fellow's jib.

Posted by: Paul Anka at June 29, 2012 09:19 AM (O7Q1u)

40 Icing on the cake, Granny Pelosi calling Brian Terry "Brian Taylor."

Not a hot enough place in hell for that bitch.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:19 AM (UOM48)

41 Well duh.

Gunwalker shut down because they couldn't keep 100% tracking of weapons that they were feeding thru to discover the network and they might be used for crimes.

FandF went hog wild jamming them thru because weapons showing up at crime scenes was the point.

Posted by: DaveA at June 29, 2012 09:19 AM (EyTMo)

42 And they over rode the FBI background checks and told the gun dealers to sell the guns to the drug dealing scum bag criminals. 

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 09:19 AM (9sUlj)

43 >>> Where is Holder, anyway? Disney World, apparently. That isn't a joke.

Posted by: JohnE. at June 29, 2012 09:19 AM (4WB73)

44 Samuel Colt was was a vote suppressionist.

Posted by: Eric "I ain't Chinese so I don't need a chin" Holder at June 29, 2012 09:20 AM (Ld6wA)

45

Here's a T-shirt for the left ... NUB

Now.Unsealed.Bitches.

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:20 AM (GvYeG)

46
I heard Disney earlier and couldn't believe my ears.


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:20 AM (G/zuv)

47

Solid next step for Team Issa would be to get some officials in Mexico who are familiar about the situation and have them come on to the house floor. If no one from the ruling party wants to come, get someone from the opposition party.

Get some of that on the record

Posted by: @huffpeter at June 29, 2012 09:20 AM (NHNJt)

48 I just killed a bunch of Mexicans and a border patrol agent.  Disney World, bitches!

Posted by: Chinless Wonder at June 29, 2012 09:21 AM (UOM48)

49

The hagus is in the fire now, that's for sure.

 

How can they spin this, let me count the ways.

 

And this is exactly why Holder would not give up the files that were requested, because he knew that incriminating evidence was in them.

Yes, this is MUCH worse than Watergate ever was.  People are dead, and we have a lawless DOJ.  Every appointment made by Holder should  be sacked.

I actually remember the DOJ standing up to Nixon, especially Bill Saxbe, as he was once a Senator from Ohio.  Saxbe was about as honest as the day was long, and he was plenty mad about what was going on then.

Does anyone wonder if it WAS possible that Roberts was covertly threatened by the DOJ?

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes.... at June 29, 2012 09:21 AM (RFeQD)

50 >>Where is Holder, anyway?

Disney World.

Not snark.  http://is.gd/6Dq0u9


Now snark: You know how they have Gay Week every year? Maybe they can have Fugitive Week.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 09:21 AM (ZKzrr)

51 Not a hot enough place in hell for that bitch. Posted by: Jane D'oh Amen and Amen. How is D'oh boy, Jane? Been thinking about him. Hope he is safe.

Posted by: moki at June 29, 2012 09:22 AM (dZmFh)

52 I cannot begin to imagine what kind of person thinks it is okay for people to die, in order to make a political point. Posted by: moki at June 29, 2012 02:18 PM

It seems Holder -- and, I'm certain, his co-conspirator and boss, Bark Obama -- considered Brian Terry to be "collateral damage." Shame he had to be in the way of those bullets, y'know.....

Time to charge Holder -- and his slimeball boss -- with 302 counts of Murder One. Each.

Posted by: MrScribbler at June 29, 2012 09:22 AM (MQc8e)

53
So Holder is going to ignore the contempt vote? I thought as much.


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:22 AM (G/zuv)

54 so can we stop saying Issa is a RINO/ soft peddling/ Stupid Party member?  seems like if he keeps going at this rate it should boil over sometime in Sep.

Posted by: pashmr at June 29, 2012 09:23 AM (3aNC4)

55 We haven't had any murder death kills, in, oh, the last 20 to 30 minutes from these guns. I know, let's just wait for the next MDK and we'll know where they are at.
 
See, it worked!

Posted by: GnuBreed, adding more weight to Demolition Man as prophecy at June 29, 2012 09:23 AM (ccXZP)

56 Any updates from MSM , summer is getting warm?

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 09:23 AM (AWmfW)

57 If Obama pardons them, then publish all the facts, ship the evidence to Mexico and let the Mexican authorities prosecute them for being accessories to murder. 

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (9sUlj)

58

"That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes)."

 

And here you thought the 'Big Theory' of the motives driving Fast & Furious was too implausible, that no Administration, however ideologically driven, could be so babbling batshit insane to deliberately bring about the violent deaths of hundreds of people to further its policy agenda. Told you so.

Posted by: troyriser at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (vtiE6)

59 Hey, moki.  He's okay.  Don't hear much from him because he's on convoys constantly.  Volunteered not long ago to drive some special forces guys on a mission.  *heart in throat*  Said it was "exciting."

Anyhow, his deployment is over around the end of August.  Just want him to stay focused on his mission and keep his head on a swivel.  Don't want him distracted.

Thanks for asking.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (UOM48)

60 If true, this has got to be one of the worst planned operations in history.  And the Democrats want to run health care.  Mercy, Lord.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - fireworks tonight at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (hLRSq)

61 Well, now I'm officially depressed. Victor Davis Hanson - "Not So Good News" http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/304411/not-so-good-news-victor-davis-hanson

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (cVfX0)

62 54 so can we stop saying Issa is a RINO/ soft peddling/ Stupid Party member?

You're new here, aren't you?

Posted by: pep at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (YXmuI)

63 ho
lee
sh!t

Issa's drip-drip-drip is delectable... oh for Breitbart to be here to see this!

Posted by: massideas at June 29, 2012 02:13 PM (qF3P2)

 

BREITBART IS HERE

Posted by: The Jackhole at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (nTgAI)

64 What I want to know is, who decided that Eric Holder gets the nickname "Chinless Wonder"?

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (nZvGM)

65
The only thing missing from yesterday's ruling was Roberts and the other four twits delivering their opinion while wearing medical lab coats.

*remember that farce?


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:24 AM (G/zuv)

66 Katie Holmes is hot again and so is my yard.

105.1° in the shade.  New record.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 09:25 AM (YdQQY)

67

Fast and Furious was completely lawlessness and is not exaggerated.

The Bush administration's Wide Receiver program involved 300 guns with radio receivers on them and they were TRACKED and agents swooped in and made arrests once the guns were purchased and ALL of the guns were accounted for and retrieved.

AND no one was killed using any of the Wide Receiver guns. The motives under Wide Receiver were pure and were for true interdiction crime fighting purposes.

The Obama administration resurrected the program and then had all tracking turned off with the intention to use the outcomes of crime to change gun control laws.

This is what happened.

 

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:25 AM (WzLTm)

68 56 Any updates from MSM , summer is getting warm? Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 02:23 PM (AWmfW) I think they are getting ready to perform fellatio on teh Won while using Colorado as the backdrop.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 09:25 AM (UZQM8)

69

Any updates from MSM , summer is getting warm?


 

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 02:23 PM (AWmfW)

 

 

Yes and per The Weather Channel, it's going to get dark tonight.

Posted by: ErikW at June 29, 2012 09:25 AM (k0ks4)

70 "Leave the gun,  take the cannoli."

You don't leave guns at crime scenes.  You leave them at murder scenes.

An operation to create murders.  That's new.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:26 AM (Ky1+e)

71 Anyhow, his deployment is over around the end of August. Just want him to stay focused on his mission and keep his head on a swivel. Don't want him distracted. Thanks for asking. Posted by: Jane D'oh Thank the Lord. Will pray for swiveling head and safety till he is back on our shores. God bless you and him!

Posted by: moki at June 29, 2012 09:26 AM (dZmFh)

72 61 Well, now I'm officially depressed. Victor Davis Hanson - "Not So Good News"

OTOH, read Glenn Reynolds, Walter Russell Meade, George Will, Paul Rahe, etc. etc.  (probably RINOs all)


Posted by: pep at June 29, 2012 09:26 AM (YXmuI)

73 62 54 so can we stop saying Issa is a RINO/ soft peddling/ Stupid Party member? You're new here, aren't you? Posted by: pep at June 29, 2012 02:24 PM (YXmuI) Suppose he is... all I see is nothing but full blown hard ons for Issa on this site. Not saying its a bad thing.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 09:26 AM (UZQM8)

74 Holder doesn't give a fuck.

The only way you deal with people like that is to not give a fuck - and take it to a higher level.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 29, 2012 09:26 AM (sbV1u)

75 DOdJ

Posted by: Michael at June 29, 2012 09:27 AM (Hl5ka)

76 >>Yes and per The Weather Channel, it's going to get dark tonight.

OMG!  GLOBAL DARKENING!!!

We should ban something.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 09:27 AM (ZKzrr)

77 I thought the wiretaps were for Secret Service bunga-bunga parties.

Posted by: The Chinless Muppet at June 29, 2012 09:27 AM (/ZZCn)

78

Remember.... Nixon had NOTHING to do with the Watergate Breakin... he was busted for the Cover Up....

 

Now we have Obama, trying to use Executive Privlege, just like Nixon, to cover up the activities of his supporters....

 

 

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 09:27 AM (lZBBB)

79 Doesn't this make certain DoJ officials accessories in the murder of a federal law enforcement agent, a death penalty eligible crime?

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 09:27 AM (WkuV6)

80 I cannot begin to imagine what kind of person thinks it is okay for people to die, in order to make a political point. Communists, socialists, pretty much anyone who thinks they can force people into being better people.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at June 29, 2012 09:27 AM (1hM1d)

81 So Holder is going to ignore the contempt vote? I thought as much.
Posted by: soothsayer

Why bother with it?  What is congress going to do?  Paper tiger.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:28 AM (Ky1+e)

82 Cummings can't introduce anything exculpatory from the sealed documents if he is not on the floor of the House because he is not protected by the Speech and Debate Clause. Guess he shouldn't have walked out.

Posted by: That is a BFD at June 29, 2012 02:17 PM (x8Wor)



That is fucking hilarious if that ignorant cum-dumpster loses any chance to counter evidence against "his people" because he, like an imbecile, participated in a brainless and meaningless protest.  It's the funniest thing I've heard this month.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny solidarity) at June 29, 2012 09:28 AM (HqfLg)

83 There were no toe tags in Watergate.

(Shamelessly stolen from Iowahawk)

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:28 AM (UOM48)

84 How much have we, and by we I mean Barry and Hills and Uncle Janet, paid Mexico to not be screaming bloody murder about this with the UN?

Maybe about 800,000 illegals?

Posted by: huerfano at June 29, 2012 09:28 AM (bAGA/)

85 @73
I like the guy, I was just pointing out that there have been many times in the past when the RINO hunters were condemning him as a sellout.

Posted by: pep at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (YXmuI)

86 We should ban something.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 29, 2012 02:27 PM (ZKzrr)


You mean tax.

Posted by: Justass Roberts at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (AWmfW)

87 Kenneth Blanco has since died??????

Posted by: elliot m at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (zPich)

88 I cannot begin to imagine what kind of person thinks it is okay for people to die, in order to make a political point.

You can't?

I guess I didn't work hard enough.

Posted by: Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (sbV1u)

89 Did the shit just get real?

Posted by: Roy at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (VndSC)

90

Dear Mr. Holder and Chief of Staff,

Be sure to include the Mexican consulate on all correspondence issued to the White House and Justice relating to Fast & Furions as a co-correspondent along with the ICC.  Even though the United States is not a signatory member of the ICC, we should nevertheless provide them with all relative information as a courtesy.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (WzLTm)

91 I'm going to begin calling Issa Dark Lord Issa.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:29 AM (UOM48)

92 HOLDER..Eric Holder... please come this way for the custom fitting of your federal prison jumpsuit...

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 09:30 AM (Jls4P)

93 Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 02:24 PM (UOM4

Glad to hear your boy is doing well. I pray for you, your son, and others in this situation.

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 09:30 AM (i3+c5)

94

"who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene?

Who would do that, and why would it make sense?"

 

Leave the gun.

Take the cannoli.

Posted by: Clemenza at June 29, 2012 09:30 AM (bcwie)

95 This post deserves a flaming skull. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:30 AM (UOM48)

96 Disney World?  The only other way to make a statement as bold as that to congress is for him to take a shit on floor in the capital rotunda.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:30 AM (Ky1+e)

97 why was there any expectation that the guns would be left at the crime scene?

Posted by: Jose at June 29, 2012 09:31 AM (srIqv)

98 Posted by: That is a BFD at June 29, 2012 02:17 PM (x8Wor) That is a BFD....

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 09:31 AM (UZQM8)

99 Icing on the cake, Granny Pelosi calling Brian Terry "Brian Taylor." Not a hot enough place in hell for that bitch. That's Granny Rictus McBotox. Also, Satan phoned to say that "yes, we have a hot enough space for her, but we're concerned about the effects once the botox start vaporizing".

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at June 29, 2012 09:31 AM (1hM1d)

100 95 This post deserves a flaming skull.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 02:30 PM (UOM4

Flaming cannoli.


Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 09:31 AM (AWmfW)

101

Roy,

Beyond real.

Team Obama has a political, moral and legal crisis in Fast & Furious.

It is completely indefensible.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:31 AM (WzLTm)

102 Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 02:30 PM (i3+c5)



I appreciate that more than you know.


Now, if we can elect ABO as C-i-C......

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:32 AM (UOM48)

103 so can we stop saying Issa is a RINO/ soft peddling/ Stupid Party member? seems like if he keeps going at this rate it should boil over sometime in Sep.Posted by: pashmr

Nah, you see we have fling shit on our guys because it proves we're TRUE CONSERVATIVES!!!

Real men call others cowards at the drop of a hat, don'tcha know.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 09:32 AM (famk3)

104 definitely skull worthy IMHO ... Mead for everyone!!!!!!!

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:32 AM (GvYeG)

105 Jose, the Mexicans have so many guns they just drop them when the run out of ammo, its true, I saw it in a movie.

Posted by: DoJ Official Tactician at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (WkuV6)

106 I can personally assure you that Issa and his office are NOT Rinos on this matter.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (WzLTm)

107 Communists, socialists, pretty much anyone who thinks they can force people into being better people subjects.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at June 29, 2012 02:27 PM (1hM1d)

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (i3+c5)

108 That's Granny Rictus McBotox. Also, Satan phoned to say that "yes, we have a hot enough space for her, but we're concerned about the effects once the botox start vaporizing". Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at June 29, 2012 02:31 PM

It does add a wrinkle to the damning.

Posted by: huerfano at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (bAGA/)

109 Thank you stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable murderer Eric Holder!

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (ZhEoC)

110 How much have we, and by we I mean Barry and Hills and Uncle Janet, paid Mexico to not be screaming bloody murder about this with the UN?

Maybe about 800,000 illegals?

Posted by: huerfano at June 29, 2012 02:28 PM (bAGA/)



And not doing a fucking thing to shut down the sanctuary cities and states which, per the Supreme Court, are unconstitutional.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny solidarity) at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (HqfLg)

111 97 why was there any expectation that the guns would be left at the crime scene?

Posted by: Jose at June 29, 2012 02:31 PM (srIqv)


Maybe there was a deal..

Apart from the campaign contribution for a cocaine import trade agreement.


Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (AWmfW)

112

who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene?

Who would do that, and why would it make sense?

 

 

So as not to get caught with the murder weapon. It's no different than dumping the gun in a river or lake. If you have easy access to additional guns (and it's clear that our government made sure that they did) then there's no reason to keep a hot gun.

Posted by: Ben LaBolt at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (JxMoP)

113 Those weren't guns that killed the US border agent and those Mexicans.  They were taxes.  I see nothing wrong here.  Have a nice day.  -Justice Roberts

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (Ky1+e)

114

who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene?

Who would do that, and why would it make sense?"

If you discharged the weapon you don't ever want to be caught with it in your possession so that they can do a ballistics match and link you to the crime. Of course, that means you need to make sure you don't leave any fingerprints on it. Or so I'm told.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at June 29, 2012 09:33 AM (nZvGM)

115 The whole dem group that walked out of the hearing yesterday made it clear that they do not represent the people of America. it was a shameful act, and any Repub who does not stand with Issa because it is bad optics in an election year, are just as low. getting to the bottom of this should be a moral duty to all government officials. it is like how the soldiers who INADVERTANTLY burned the korans are being punished, but Barry killing Osama gets praised.

Posted by: Chilling the most at June 29, 2012 09:34 AM (6IV8T)

116 103 so can we stop saying Issa is a RINO/ soft peddling/ Stupid Party member? seems like if he keeps going at this rate it should boil over sometime in Sep.Posted by: pashmr Nah, you see we have fling shit on our guys because it proves we're TRUE CONSERVATIVES!!! Real men call others cowards at the drop of a hat, don'tcha know. Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 29, 2012 02:32 PM (famk3) They're so mean to me here...

Posted by: Cry Baby Boehner at June 29, 2012 09:34 AM (UZQM8)

117 Issa is worth a 100M and is self-made. He is an entrepreneur and will never give up on this. It's in his self-made nature and training.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:34 AM (WzLTm)

118 Yesterday someone said Eric Holder is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable criminal. 

It needs up-grading to "murderer."  And it can't be said enough.

Hellooooo Google....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:35 AM (UOM48)

119 Romney needs to pledge that on the first day of his Presidency, he will prosecute any and all criminal wrongdoing. No exception. Holder and his minions can not be allowed to get away with this.

Posted by: The Political Hat (@ThePoliticalHat) at June 29, 2012 09:35 AM (XvHmy)

120 They're so mean to me here... Posted by: Cry Baby Boehner Its the pick ties

Posted by: DoJ Official Tactician at June 29, 2012 09:35 AM (WkuV6)

121 FYI we knew this. Dodson's "whistleblower" testimony. I've been trying to point out that murder was baked into the plan for quite a while. The US DOJ provided weapons to narco-terrorists in a neighboring allied country with the explicit intent that they be used to murder. That *should* be front-page news for 43 days straight, if most of our news organizations were anything but cowardly partisan propaganda outfits who wink at mass-murder if it helps them politically.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 09:35 AM (bxiXv)

122 Where's AllenG?  We need to start marketing a T-Shirt with his phrase "Watergate didn't have a Bodycount"

Fast and Furious.

OWN IT Dems......

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 09:35 AM (UK9cE)

123 Come, come, children. Did we say this is a scandal? There's no scandal until we declare a scandal!

Posted by: MSM at June 29, 2012 09:35 AM (C8mVl)

124 The whole dem group that walked out of the hearing yesterday made it clear that they do not represent the people of America. it was a shameful act, and any Repub who does not stand with Issa because it is bad optics in an election year, are just as low. getting to the bottom of this should be a moral duty to all government officials. it is like how the soldiers who INADVERTANTLY burned the korans are being punished, but Barry killing Osama gets praised. Posted by: Chilling the most at June 29, 2012 02:34 PM

If they had any balls, they'd have gone to Chicago.

Posted by: badger state fleebaggers at June 29, 2012 09:36 AM (bAGA/)

125 OMG! GLOBAL DARKENING!!!

We should ban something.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 29, 2012 02:27 PM (ZKzrr)



TAX IT!!!!

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 09:36 AM (UK9cE)

126

Issa has been pushing this hard for a long time,

 

He has had to fight the Obama Adminisration and worse,

He had to fight cry baby Boehner for weeks too.  Boehner is a chicken shit dick weed worried about being called a racisss by democrats and the media (BIRM).

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 09:37 AM (9sUlj)

127 Choomer and his minions have blood on their hands over F&F... and all they can do is hide behind "Executive Privilege"...

They have to go in November....

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 09:37 AM (Jls4P)

128 Whatever, John the bitch Roberts will say that if those guns were taxed the murders committed with then were perfectly legal.

Posted by: Mr Pink at June 29, 2012 09:37 AM (b2myz)

129 why was there any expectation that the guns would be left at the crime scene?
Posted by: Jose

Sometimes they do,  sometimes they don't.  It was apparently a gamble Holder was willing to make.  50/50 chance.  I mean,  c'mon.  They're Mexicans.  I'm sure they were hoping for some white hispanics to turn up dead.  Gravy.  Ya know?

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (Ky1+e)

130 Since we haz flaming Blago skulls, can we haz flaming, short 'fro skulls and not be called racist?

Posted by: RushBabe at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (tQHzJ)

131 The biggest tax increase in the history of the universe, and this. Oh yeah ...

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (GvYeG)

132 MFM:   But....Valerie Plame!!!!111111!!!!!111!!!!!

*cough* Scooter Libby *cough*

Chinless needs a prison cell.....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (UOM48)

133


So as not to get caught with the murder weapon.It's no different than dumping the gun in a river or lake.If you have easy access to additional guns (and it's clear that our government made sure that they did) then there's no reason to keep a hot gun.

 

Posted by: Ben LaBolt at June 29, 2012 02:33 PM (JxMoP)

 

 

If I may respectfully disagree, when these guys are confronted by law enforcement, they don't stop and put their hands up.

Posted by: ErikW at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (k0ks4)

134 Article at Drudge about the ability of the House to arrest Holder.  Interesting to think about a standoff between legislative and executive police forces.

Posted by: LIGuy at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (+usC4)

135 64 What I want to know is, who decided that Eric Holder gets the nickname "Chinless Wonder"? Posted by: Mitch McConnell

************

Me too.

Posted by: Bashar al Assad at June 29, 2012 09:38 AM (pJbuO)

136 It does add a wrinkle to the damning. True. But I think Satan is more worried about the EPA putting its boot up his ass over polluting Hell with botox vapors. And he so doesn't want EPA drones doing fly-bys.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at June 29, 2012 09:39 AM (1hM1d)

137 Mitt should say that he is still undecided if he will grant extradition concerning those involved in Fast and Furious

Posted by: Bob's Country Bunker at June 29, 2012 09:39 AM (Bxm/r)

138 He had to fight cry baby Boehner for weeks too. Boehner is a chicken shit dick weed worried about being called a racisss by democrats and the media (BIRM). :*(

Posted by: Cry Baby Boehner at June 29, 2012 09:39 AM (UZQM8)

139

Not to belabor the point, but John Roberts rolled over because of criticism from folks like this.

Posted by: ejo at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (HzC9j)

140 Time for Mitt money bomb part II

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (GvYeG)

141 Assuming that Issa put the material in the CR today, it should be available for public viewing on the Library of Congress THOMAS service by tomorrow morning.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/LegislativeData.php?&n=Record

Posted by: Stu-22 at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (AiYlm)

142 Burke: I got it! I got it!
Holder: You do?
Burke: We'll work up a Number 6 on 'em.
Holder: [frowns] "Number 6"? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one.
Burke: Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course.
Holder: You spare the women?
Burke: Naw, we rape the shit out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
Holder: Marvelous!

Posted by: E Howad Hunt at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (e8kgV)

143 No exception.Holder and his minions can not be allowed to get away with this.Posted by: The Political Hat

Pardons can't be undone by the next executive.

Second, do you really want to give the Left the power to prosecute politicians once they leave office?

Oh, but Holder and co committed crimes, you say.  Yes, and all it would take is a Dem congress to pass some piss of a new law, and bingo, we have rightie pols being thrown in jail.

Bad idea.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (famk3)

144 131 The biggest tax increase in the history of the universe, and this. Oh yeah ... Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 02:38 PM (GvYeG) Don't forget about me...

Posted by: Egypt at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (UZQM8)

145 I am still fascinated at how the Mex drugs lords would rather come across the border, buy limited quantities of semi-automatic (not full-automatic) guns at inflated US prices, take chances on getting caught (hah!) by ATF, and have to cross the border back into old Mexico and risk a border patrol stop (hah!), when they could just put in an order with Hugo Chavez for better cheaper weapons (full auto AK-47).  And then, after going to all that trouble to acquire these specific US weapons, the drug dealers have their minions just throw them away at murder scenes.

It all makes perfect sense.

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 09:40 AM (i3+c5)

146 This is nasty, nasty stuff. Nastier than the usual lefty stuff.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 09:41 AM (C8mVl)

147 If I may respectfully disagree, when these guys are confronted by law enforcement, they don't stop and put their hands up. Posted by: ErikW

Fast and Furious guns were left at the murder scene of Brian Terry.  I think Holder would call that "winning."

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:41 AM (Ky1+e)

148 #96 film at 11

Posted by: the Butcher at June 29, 2012 09:41 AM (8g9qq)

149 I wonder if Holder has ever seen the inside of  a Mexican prison?  Maybe that should be his retirement home when Choomer is sent home in November

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 09:41 AM (Jls4P)

150 Chinless needs a prison cell.....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 02:38 PM (UOM4


And if they put a violent infected gay person in as his cellmate, we could track the spread of AIDS.

Posted by: Cicero at June 29, 2012 09:41 AM (QKKT0)

151 Bush Firing the U.S. Attorneys Didn't Have a Body Count

Posted by: Ward of the State #4559141A at June 29, 2012 09:42 AM (6ITq9)

152 I don't buy the anti-2nd-amendment theory.

I think it was just stunning heartlessness and incompetence.

"People are gonna die anyhow, might as well track some serial numbers."

Posted by: sandy burger at June 29, 2012 09:42 AM (lA8yt)

153 If you discharged the weapon you don't ever want to be caught with it in your possession so that they can do a ballistics match and link you to the crime. Of course, that means you need to make sure you don't leave any fingerprints on it. Or so I'm told.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at June 29, 2012 02:33 PM (nZvGM)


THIS, but I don't think the Mexicans have the same fingerprint database we do. I'm sure to the cartels it's no big deal if you leave a gun with your fingerprints all over it at the scene.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 29, 2012 09:42 AM (ZhEoC)

154 >>>How do you track guns without tracking them? A: Apparently you just wait until they're used to kill people, then you know where they ended up.

Wow, eggs and omelet. How can anybody believe progs have anything but utter and total disdain for the non-elite.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 09:43 AM (0q2P7)

155 Sarah Palin's Racing T-Shirt Didn't Have a Body Count

Posted by: Ward of the State #4559141A at June 29, 2012 09:43 AM (6ITq9)

156 1.) If Issa has these wiretap applications, that means his whistleblowers are in deep. That shit was classified and under court seal. Holder can't trust his own shadow, somebody he trusts is screwing him. 2.) They can't go with the "well we didn't really read them" argument - because every crook who has gone down on federal wiretap evidence would be in court screaming for a mistrial. (This may be a feature, not a bug with this group of clowns.) 3.) These applications don't stand alone, there has to be a bunch of email traffic associated with each one. Does Issa have all the back traffic? Really gonna suck for Obama if NSC types are copied on those.

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 09:43 AM (WkuV6)

157 >>Come, come, children.
>>Did we say this is a scandal?

You forgot "Ann Romney owns a horse.  And RIDES it.  Scandalous."

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 09:43 AM (ZKzrr)

158 I love the smell of breaking eggs for morning omelets!

Posted by: Col Holder at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (i3+c5)

159 At least I didn't kill 'em.

Posted by: Zombie Marie Antoinette at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (QKKT0)

160 Should ask the Mexican government to charge Holder with Conspiracy to Commit Mass Murder. Just give the right guy a few hundred bucks and I'm sure they'll cooperate (because they are (1) angry with good reason and (2) happy to be bribed).

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (5mx3x)

161 Another mead for everyone ...!!!

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (GvYeG)

162 Don't think of that stuff in your mouth as goo. Think of it as a penalty.

It's a trap tax!

Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at June 29, 2012 09:44 AM (kqqGm)

163 He had to fight cry baby Boehner for weeks too. Boehner is a chicken shit dick weed worried about being called a racisss by democrats and the media (BIRM).Posted by: rd

Yes, because anonymously-sourced Politico articles are 100% accurate, and those fine journalists wouldn't want to see our side tear itself apart.

Right?

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 09:45 AM (famk3)

164 You have to remember, if you saw the hearings and watched the floor speeches, one of the big, big, big talking points of the left was that Holder couldn't release those documents because it would be illegal. And mean (racist) Issa was only pressing this to force Eagle Boy Scout Holder to break the law for the first time in his life.

That was their fig leaf--some of the documents might have been illegal for him to release but, they made it sound like all of the documents he hadn't released fit that category.

This just blows that out of the water--not that they care, they have their talking point and they will stick to it.

But now, the GOP can say, "you mean those wiretap subpoenas that are in the Congressional Record?"

Sputter, sputter, sputter, "RAcism!!!"

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 29, 2012 09:45 AM (kSaUf)

165 How long until someone in the administration says that Issa should not hide behind congressional privilege?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 29, 2012 09:45 AM (B+qrE)

166
Why do you assume it's necessary for the DoJ to have the weapon after the crime?

Ballistics. They probably had a ballistics record of all the guns they gave away. No weapon necessary. Just the bullet in the victim, or at the crime scene.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:45 AM (G/zuv)

167 "We can just wait for another code to go red. And when the Mexican Drug Cartel performs another Murder Death Kill, we'll know exactly where to pounce."

Posted by: Chief George Earle at June 29, 2012 09:45 AM (BHM5V)

168 (2) happy to be bribed).
Posted by: Inspector Asshole

That's actually a tax.  No problem with that.
Have a nice day.
-Justice Roberts

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:46 AM (Ky1+e)

169 I'm sure I can think of a way to screw this up. Just give me a chance.

Posted by: Chief Justice Benedict Arnold at June 29, 2012 09:46 AM (6LvlL)

170 "Ann Romney owns a horse. And RIDES it. " And bullied it because it looked teh ghey. And put it in the trunk of the car and made it smoke a cigarette.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (C8mVl)

171 2 A good point was made by a caller to Rush's show the other day--who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene? Who would do that, and why would it make sense? --------------------------------------- I brought that very point up here a month ago and was vilified for it. LOL! Seems very strange to me. Always has.

Posted by: Deval Patrick at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (53Nsb)

172 >>>I don't buy the anti-2nd-amendment theory.
>>>I think it was just stunning heartlessness and incompetence.

Oh no, if that was the actual scheme, that's workable and not "incompetent" on its face. But it is also legally being an accessory to murder period. Whoever in authority authorized this needs to go to jail on murder charges.  Or at LEAST man 1.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (0q2P7)

173 I don't buy the anti-2nd-amendment theory. I think it was just stunning heartlessness and incompetence. You don't remember Hilary rolling out all of those bullshit stats on US guns in Mexico -- before this operation. I think they led with their chin (somebody other the Holder) and got caught, then the NSC and Newell guy cooked up this scheme to support the administration's position and produce some numbers for an initiative to control rifle sales (demand letter 3).

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (WkuV6)

174
And it's funny that some here think the Mexican govt cares about their people. They were probably in on the whole scheme with Holder.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (G/zuv)

175 This must have been what Elijah Cummings was going on about when he re-entered the chamber to speak out against the contempt vote.  I didn't hear Issa speak earlier.  I just heard Cummings say that some classified wiretaps were revealed which could endanger ongoing prosecutions.  He said Issa's disclosure could be illegal.  He said they had people looking into it, and that the revelation of such information was what they feared would happen.  Now, I understand why he made such a big deal about it.

Posted by: no good deed at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (0lYad)

176 It all makes perfect sense. Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 02:40 PM (i3+c5) It does if the FBI paid the informant who was also the smuggler. Subsidized guns are cheaper. That was part of the early whistleblower testimony, that at least some of the smugglers were informants and used money from the FBI to pay for the guns. I would have to actually dig in the huge glut of information on the case to get the details, but I'm sure Issa has them now.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (bxiXv)

177

Folks... this is beyond nasty stuff.  This is the underside of a lawless administration who was riding high with power inside a power base they believed could never be breached.

Well... it has been breached as we are a people of laws and seek equity and justice within those laws.

This is going to be a case of first impression where not only Holder could do jail time but we seriously could have a president facing jail. And this is not a strectch.

300 Mexican citizens were murdered with these guns and Americans law enforecement on our soil.

And there are hundreds of guns still out there.

Holder lied and this lawless adminsitration is very sloppy due to their arrogance. Documents are all over the place on this as well as testimony awaiting from whistleblowers and testimony from those directly involved.

Holder is shitting bricks at this point.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (WzLTm)

178 I couldn't listen to liar holders response yesterday..... Go get him Issa

Posted by: phoenixgirl, team dagny at June 29, 2012 09:47 AM (hhFIu)

179 Dear Ranking Member Cummings: Last February, I joined Senator Grassley in investigating Operation Fast and Furious, the reckless and fundamentally flawed program conducted by the Phoenix Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). As you know, during Fast and Furious, ATF agents let straw purchasers illegally acquire hundreds of firearms and walk away from Phoenix gun stores. The misguided goal of this operation was to allow the U.S.-based associates of a Mexican drug cartel to acquire firearms so they could be traced back to the associates once the firearms were recovered at crime scenes. On December 15, 2010, two guns from the Fast and Furious operation were the only ones found at the scene of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's murder..."

Posted by: E Howad Hunt at June 29, 2012 09:48 AM (e8kgV)

180

Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 29, 2012 02:42 PM

 

The FBI and Interpol have been training people for years on crime procedures and CSI techniques.  The Mexicans may have trouble with corruption and incompetence, but they do understand CSI. 

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 09:48 AM (9sUlj)

181 Ballistics. They probably had a ballistics record of all the guns they gave away. No weapon necessary. Just the bullet in the victim, or at the crime scene.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 02:45 PM (G/zuv)


Is there any evidence that anyone took ballistics samples from any of the guns before they were "walked"?  This shit still isn't making sense.

Posted by: Cicero at June 29, 2012 09:48 AM (QKKT0)

182 This is going to be a case of first impression where not only Holder could do jail time but we seriously could have a president facing jail. And this is not a strectch.

The deuce, you say.

Posted by: The MBM, Watchdog of Democracy n Shit at June 29, 2012 09:49 AM (QKKT0)

183
Well only a bunch of idiots would set up this type of gun tracking program without first acquiring ballistics data from each gun.

oh wait...

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:50 AM (G/zuv)

184 BFD.Bitches.

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:50 AM (GvYeG)

185 I am still fascinated at how the Mex drugs lords would rather come across the border, buy limited quantities of semi-automatic (not full-automatic) guns at inflated US prices, take chances on getting caught (hah!) by ATF, and have to cross the border back into old Mexico and risk a border patrol stop (hah!), when they could just put in an order with Hugo Chavez for better cheaper weapons (full auto AK-47).

Convenience.  Much of the cartel violence is near the border.  Have someone with American citizenship buy a crate full of weapons, sneak them across the border, have a local gunsmith convert them to full auto (if desired), deal done.  The cartels have enough money that paying a bit extra probably isn't a huge concern.

Sure, they could get them shipped in from elsewhere, but that takes time and still incurs the risk they'll be confiscated enroute.

Of course a major supplier of cartel weapons is the military and police of Mexico and other Central American countries, either through theft or corruption.  They aren't buying grenades, RPGs, etc from US gun shops.  But some weapons do come from the US.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 29, 2012 09:51 AM (SY2Kh)

186 2 A good point was made by a caller to Rush's show the other day--who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene? Answer: someone who was hired (and not by Mexico) to "salt" crime scenes with "American" guns to be found, and contribute to statistics, but instead figured out it was a great way to commit murder and leave someone else's gun as evidence - that's who.

Posted by: sherlock at June 29, 2012 09:51 AM (BaQuW)

187

From the beginning, ATF was transparent about its strategy. An internal ATF briefing paper used in preparation for the OCDETF application process explained as much:

Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of co-conspirators who would continue to operate and illegally traffic firearms to Mexican DTOs which are perpetrating armed violence along the Southwest Border.

Posted by: E Howad Hunt at June 29, 2012 09:51 AM (e8kgV)

188 Do you all accept the fact now that this was a conspiracy?

Posted by: phoenixgirl, team dagny at June 29, 2012 09:51 AM (hhFIu)

189

THIS, but I don't think the Mexicans have the same fingerprint database we do. I'm sure to the cartels it's no big deal if you leave a gun with your fingerprints all over it at the scene.

 

 

Recovering fingerprints from handguns isn't as common as you might think, and even if they were recovered, it's Mexico. No way it would go to trial.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 09:52 AM (JxMoP)

190 Is there any evidence that anyone took ballistics samples from any of the guns before they were "walked"? This shit still isn't making sense.

Posted by: Cicero at June 29, 2012 02:48 PM (QKKT0)



I don't think the government provided the guns that were sold, did they?  They just forced the dealers to peddle them to illegals.

Also, does that make it ANY BETTER?  They're still waiting for people to DIE so they can prove it was the guns they gave criminals that killed them?

Asinine......

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 09:52 AM (UK9cE)

191 BFD.Bitches.

The lives of innocent Mexicans and American border agents?  No Big Fucking Deal, man.

Posted by: Cicero at June 29, 2012 09:52 AM (QKKT0)

192 Off topic but how about those Republicans trying to impose their theocracy on us?


First lady Michelle Obama Thursday offered a rare public reflection on her religious faith, telling a conference of the African Methodist Episcopal church that the life of Jesus Christ is a model for democratic organizing.

"It's kind of like church," Obama said. "Our faith journey isn't just about showing up on Sunday for a good sermon and good music and a good meal. It's about what we do Monday through Saturday as well, especially in those quiet moments, when the spotlight's not on us, and we're making those daily choices about how to live our lives.

"We see that in the life of Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't limit his ministry to the four walls of the church," she said. "He was out there fighting injustice and speaking truth to power every single day. He was out there spreading a message of grace and redemption to the least, the last, and the lost. And our charge is to find Him everywhere, every day by how we live our lives."



Speaking truth to power? He was a journalist?


Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (hAvUy)

193
>>>Who would do that, and why would it make sense?

A weapon holds what kind of clues for a crime.
1. Caliber of weapon (usually known anyway)
2. Actual weapon serial (Trackable to point of original sale)
3. Finger prints
4. Tracking movement of criminals after the crime (Murder weapon recovered later at another location.

3. you can wipe off or use gloves.
2. you can manage by managing your weapons supplier.

and you can totally eliminate 4 by dropping the gun at the crime scene. So if you aren't worried about 2 or 3 just drop the damn gun and go.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (0q2P7)

194

Slaughtergate!

!!Eleventy!!

Posted by: RushBabe at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (tQHzJ)

195 This is going to be a case of first impression where not only Holder could do jail time but we seriously could have a president facing jail. And this is not a stretch.

You're right. It's not a stretch. It's a tax.

Posted by: The King of 8,000 Dimensional Othello - A Minute to Learn, A Lifetime to Master at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (6ITq9)

196 Posted by: Cicero at June 29, 2012 02:48 PM (QKKT0)

So the gun store owner is going to have every gun in his store submitted for ballistic analysis before he puts them on the shelves?  Or is there a special bin that says for gun-runners only?  The ballistic trace idea doesn't make sense to me, although I understand it might be technically feasible.

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (i3+c5)

197

Congressman Elijah Cummings,

Citing the law... probably isn't your strongest suit in response to providing the public with information detailing the information provided to the DOJ; information which serves to impeach the DOJ's sworn testimony under oath and written statements relative to a gun running operation that caused the deaths of 300 Mexican citizens and a U.S. border patrol agent.  

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 09:53 AM (WzLTm)

198
yeah, it seems this operation was set up to make U.S. gun dealers look bad


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (G/zuv)

199 Ballistics. They probably had a ballistics record of
all the guns they gave away. No weapon necessary. Just the bullet in
the victim, or at the crime scene.


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 02:45 PM (G/zuv)

Is there any evidence that anyone took ballistics samples from any of the guns before they were "walked"? This shit still isn't making sense.

Posted by: Cicero at June 29, 2012 02:48 PM

 

No, these guns came form gun shops, some of which tried to to get the FBI and BATFE  to disapprove or at least investigate the buyers.  Some of the buyers should have been disapproved, but the BATF overrode the FBI background checks. 

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (9sUlj)

200 Roll Call link has been timing out since it was first posted.

Posted by: Chris R, red in NY-9 at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (v362Z)

201 152 I don't buy the anti-2nd-amendment theory. Posted by: sandy burger at June 29, 2012 02:42 PM (lA8yt) 1) It doesn't matter. The crime is not less severe because the motive is "POTATO!" than because the motive is political. 2) THEY ACTUALLY CARRIED THAT PLAN OUT. They announced beforehand a lie that most of the guns in Mexico were coming from the US. They got caught in that lie. They tried to make it true. And when they got caught doing that, they STILL used it as a reason for more gun control. THEY ACTUALLY DID IT, and still a lot of people are like "naw, couldn't be." Same with the drop guns. It's an absolutely common tactic, and yet it's somehow inconceivable now. ???

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (bxiXv)

202 Ballistics. They probably had a ballistics record of
all the guns they gave away. No weapon necessary. Just the bullet in
the victim, or at the crime scene.


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 02:45 PM (G/zuv)


Is there any evidence that anyone took ballistics samples from any of the guns before they were "walked"? This shit still isn't making sense.
Posted by: Cicero

Yeah.  No evidence of that.  In fact a gun shop owner was told to buy more weapons so he could make a large sale to a suspected cartel member.  No command from the Fast and Furious operative to have the ballistics sampled and send them into the government or any such shit.  And the guns were being bought from the manufacturers,  not the government.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (Ky1+e)

203 Nobody gives a fuck about this...whatever it is. You're like a mynah bird on meth.

Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (oP+TW)

204 174 ---"And it's funny that some here think the Mexican govt cares about their people. They were probably in on the whole scheme with Holder." I have the same very reasonable suspicions. Some in the Mexican press have squawked about FnF and the govt has made a few remarks about it (for domestic consumption,) but Calderon has not said a word to the US press about it. Even the Mexican government were not initially involved, I can certainly believe they are covering Obama's ass.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (C8mVl)

205 Also, if members of the Mexican military are supporting the drug cartels, they could get a hold of heavier weapons and explosives from their armories.  I'm sure that there are some "problems" with weapons and explosive inventories in some of the military units.

Posted by: Mjlnir the banhammer at June 29, 2012 09:54 AM (Jls4P)

206
like, for instance, see? we need to close these gun show loopholes because guns are ending up in the hands of Mexican criminals and killing Americans!!


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (G/zuv)

207 Fast & Furious?  It has nothing to do with guns.  It's the Secret Service's code name for Michelle Obama.

Posted by: Joey Hairplugs at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (O7Q1u)

208

Who would do that, and why would it make sense?

You have obviously never watched The Godfather.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (B+qrE)

209 Freakin' ampersand.

Posted by: Joey Hairplugs at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (O7Q1u)

210 Hollowpoint, Convenience. ? They have a 747 coming in twice a week full of drugs from Chavez, a couple of crates of Russian surplus wouldn't be a big deal. It makes no sense, if you want to nab the strw purchasers, sure, but no Mexicans. What US law did the Mexicans break buying guns in Mexico.

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 09:55 AM (WkuV6)

211 170 "Ann Romney owns a horse. And RIDES it. " And bullied it because it looked teh ghey. And put it in the trunk of the car and made it smoke a cigarette. Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 02:47 PM (C8mVl) And cuts it's hair.

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (UZQM8)

212 dear obozo - please eat BFD. in disrespect + love, America.

Posted by: Fresh at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (O7ksG)

213 Slaughtergate!

I don't feel very good about this, but yes. A million times yes.

Posted by: Ward of the State #4559141A at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (6ITq9)

214 Question for the legal experts here: Assume Obama pardons Holder, making him immune to prosecution in the US. Would that prevent the US (in the form or a Romney administration) from allowing him to be extradited to Mexico to face charges there?

Any precedent for extradition requests from foreign governments for US officials over actions taken as part of their official duties?

Posted by: Iowa Bob at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (RJ+Yj)

215 &

Posted by: phoenixgirl, team dagny at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (hhFIu)

216 Speaking truth to power? He was a journalist?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2012 02:53 PM (hAvUy)

No - he was a community organizer... Just ask me

Posted by: Choomer in Chief at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (Jls4P)

217 And right on schedule a douchebag lib troll shows up to mock the death of a brave border patrol agent and 300 Mexican citizens.....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:56 AM (UOM48)

218 208 ... that would be Fat and Furious ...

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 09:57 AM (GvYeG)

219 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable tyrant

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 09:57 AM (8y9MW)

220 I can tell this is getting at least a little more play because you can google it and Vin Diesel is not the first person you see.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 29, 2012 09:57 AM (ZhEoC)

221 Hmmm... maybe I can finally forgive Issa for his grave sin of having a name that sounds like Jar Jar Binks speech.

Posted by: wooga at June 29, 2012 09:58 AM (vjyZP)

222 Same with the drop guns. It's an absolutely common tactic, and yet it's somehow inconceivable now. ??? Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith

No shit.  They did it twice in The Godfather.  When Michale shot the guys in the restaurant and in the "Leave the gun.  Take the cannoli" scene.  But when they shot Sonny,  they took their guns... hey,  wait just a fucking minute!

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 09:58 AM (Ky1+e)

223 Eric Holder is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable murderer.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 09:58 AM (UOM48)

224 91 I'm going to begin calling Issa Dark Lord Issa. ------------------------------------- Funny, I've been calling him the "Dark Prince" for a year now.

Posted by: I'd Put Some Issa On That. If I Were You! at June 29, 2012 09:58 AM (53Nsb)

225 You're like a mynah bird on meth.

Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at June 29, 2012 02:54 PM (oP+TW)



Ah, welcome back, asshole.  WE missed you.  The room was starting to smell so much better.

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 09:59 AM (UK9cE)

226

189 Do you all accept the fact now that this was a conspiracy?

 

Barky and Hillary in March 2009, saying...."The flow of guns to Mexico is a crisis!"

Then...."Wait, what? That hasn't happened yet?"

 

Oh well then...they had to do something to back up their claims.

But that's not a 'conspiracy'.

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 09:59 AM (jPxSq)

227 >>>First lady Michelle Obama Thursday offered a rare public reflection on her religious faith

Their perversions of Christ's teachings I find one of the most offensive things to ever exist. They actually try to use his teachings as a mechanism to forward forced servitude, I don't think Christ would approve.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 09:59 AM (0q2P7)

228 Remember Janet napalitano is part of this too

Posted by: phoenixgirl, team dagny at June 29, 2012 09:59 AM (hhFIu)

229 Who would do that, and why would it make sense?

A lot of people, really.  It's actually apparently somewhat common in gang shootings.  If the gun is stolen (so can't be traced directly to you), for instance, it makes sense to drop the weapon at the scene- it won't lead to you. 

In the case of long guns (rifles of various sorts, shotguns, etc.) that don't have to be registered, it's a pretty good gamble that dropping the weapon will prove to be a dead-end for investigators.  They've already got the murder weapon, and it likely can't be definitively traced to a specific person.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 09:59 AM (8y9MW)

230

"What? That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes)."

 

Other than armed robbery or hunting out of season, murders are pretty well what was necessary if their plan was to be successful.  Even if it was successful in this regard, how would it help arrest anyone?  Fingerprints?  The only possible benefit is if the bad guys killed themselves or another bad guy but wouldn't someone think of the possibility of it being used an innocent bystander or one of the good guys.  The only possible informational outcome is to trace a crime scene weapon back to a gun shop.  That conclusion is not only not paranoid, its inescapable.

 

As well, the government didn't just stand by let the guns walk.  They actually had to intercede to convince the gunshops to sell to the straw buyers and then intercede to stop their own agents from intercepting or following.

 

They actually set out to provide weapons to someone with the expectation that they would be used to murder someone.  Sounds pretty cover-up worthy.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at June 29, 2012 10:00 AM (VLifP)

231

"Holder is shitting bricks at this point. "

Yeah, no.

 

Does Holder strike you as the kind of malignant narccissist who gives a shit what you think, the difference between right and wrong, and about the consequences of his actions?

 

Dude thinks he's bulletproof by virtue of his associations, his position, and (if all else fails) his race.

Posted by: Jaws at June 29, 2012 10:00 AM (4I3Uo)

232 Slaughtergate!

I'm partial to Chollogate myself. 
"Slaughtergate" is too generic.

Posted by: wooga at June 29, 2012 10:00 AM (vjyZP)

233

Iowa Bob,

Last I checked --- Mexico is a sovereign with their own laws.

Our laws don't apply to Mexico if they want to prosecute Holder irrespective if he was pardoned by a U.S. President.

 

 

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 10:00 AM (WzLTm)

234 >>>Nobody gives a fuck about this...whatever it is.

Well good. When we impeach, indict, and throw Holder in jail no one will care why so it won't cost us anything politically. Full steam ahead Issa the troll says were cool.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:01 AM (0q2P7)

235

This needs a Special Prosecutor. 

 

Romney needs to appoint a prosecutor on 1/21/2013. 

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 10:01 AM (9sUlj)

236 I'm surprised they didn't have the guns engraved 'With Love, to Pablo, from George W. Bush.'

Posted by: nickless at June 29, 2012 10:01 AM (MMC8r)

237

Dude thinks he's bulletproof by virtue of his associations, his position, and (if all else fails) his race.

 

 

And being a leftist he's also convinced that he's pursuing a just cause.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at June 29, 2012 10:02 AM (JxMoP)

238

Jaws,

Holder understands momentum and this is not going to be contained.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 10:02 AM (WzLTm)

239 218 And right on schedule a douchebag lib troll shows up to mock the death of a brave border patrol agent and 300 Mexican citizens.....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 02:56 PM (UOM4


It's ergie. As usual, he has nothing.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at June 29, 2012 10:02 AM (RD7QR)

240
yeah, Obama's conversion to Christian Conservative is about to begin

now that Obama has done everything he can before the election to ruin the USA, the media and the Obama campaign need to pretend Obama is really just a Christian conservative...just...like...you.


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:02 AM (G/zuv)

241 Posted by: Jaws at June 29, 2012 03:00 PM (4I3Uo)

Apologies to Vic, but Blackdemocratium, how do it work?

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 10:03 AM (i3+c5)

242 okay… So… Bush created some kind of DEA something or other in which some Mexican guy got a gun and shot a cop. Okey-dokey. Any dead beaners? Any payback? Help me.

Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:03 AM (oP+TW)

243

I like Obamagate. He wants the credit for everything. Here it is.BFD.Bitch.

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 10:03 AM (GvYeG)

244 Thought:  A few weeks ago they had one of those unregistered gun buy-backs in Chicago - you know, bring in your Saturday Night Special and get a $100 gift card sort of thing.  Who oversees these types of programs?  Are the serial numbers of the weapons handed over recorded anywhere?  Imagine if F&F guns showed up in any of these buy-backs?

Posted by: massideas at June 29, 2012 10:03 AM (qF3P2)

245
oh, and Obama is about to become a deficit hawk

really really serious about deficits now


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:03 AM (G/zuv)

246

Heheh...Goldberg, NRO side bar...

"Fast-forward to chief haruspex John Roberts."

 

Posted by: dananjcon at June 29, 2012 10:03 AM (eavT+)

247 old obsolete meme

leave the gun; take the cannoli

new modern meme

leave the gun; take the tortillas

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:04 AM (YdQQY)

248 So they were betting on what? Shootouts? That's the only way this "plan" even vaguely makes sense. And then what? "well guys, our gun got from Arizona to Juarez...so yeah, that should stop future crime!"

Posted by: Lauren at June 29, 2012 10:04 AM (Ac+Nx)

249 The ballistics theory doesn't hold water.

As soon as it's investigated, or even revealed that such a plan was in place, the first question would be simple:

You mean to tell me that you ballistic fired weapons, sold them to drug cartels illegally via gun merchants in border cities, with the full intent on digging the bullets out of corpses to "prove they were used for evil?"  Can I meet the one who came up with such a brilliant idea so I can kick them square in the crotch?

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 10:04 AM (UK9cE)

250 >>>Any precedent for extradition requests from foreign governments for US officials over actions taken as part of their official duties?

Yes, we don't do it. Because it would open up a can of worms for everyone that ever serves if they do something someone else considers a crime.



Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:04 AM (0q2P7)

251 Posted by: nickless at June 29, 2012 03:01 PM (MMC8r)


Please DO NOT give them ideas!

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 10:04 AM (i3+c5)

252

 

This needs to be repeated:

"What? That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes)."

Other than armed robbery or hunting out of season, murders are pretty well what was necessary if their plan was to be successful. Even if it was successful in this regard, how would it help arrest anyone? Fingerprints? The only possible benefit is if the bad guys killed themselves or another bad guy but wouldn't someone think of the possibility of it being used an innocent bystander or one of the good guys. The only possible informational outcome is to trace a crime scene weapon back to a gun shop. That conclusion is not only not paranoid, its inescapable.

As well, the government didn't just stand by let the guns walk. They actually had to intercede to convince the gunshops to sell to the straw buyers and then intercede to stop their own agents from intercepting or following.

They actually set out to provide weapons to someone with the expectation that they would be used to murder someone. Sounds pretty cover-up worthy.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at June 29, 2012 03:00 PM

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 10:05 AM (9sUlj)

253 I guess this destroys the lefts meme that this was a botched gun gun program.
They had a mechanism to track the guns....just follow the bodies.

Hello face, meet palm.

Posted by: ina_ginalship at June 29, 2012 10:05 AM (pBdSH)

254 okay… So… Bush created some kind of DEA something or other in which some Mexican guy got a gun and shot a cop.

Okey-dokey.

Any dead beaners? Any payback? Help me.

Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at June 29, 2012 03:03 PM (oP+TW)



Do you run in and shit in rooms at home too?

Also, try making sense.  It works much better.

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 10:05 AM (UK9cE)

255 I was channel-surfing last night and stopped to watch about 30 seconds of the Tonight Show.  Leno said something to the effect that  a government that botched F&F  will supervise the health care of every American.

Whoa. 

Posted by: mrp at June 29, 2012 10:05 AM (HjPtV)

256 On the RINO score for Issa.  Last year his ACU score was 84, his lifetime is 91.  So no, he is not the most conservative guy in the box.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (YdQQY)

257 For decades, the left have been accusing America of cynically killing brown people for our own ends. It's some kind of cosmic irony that not only did the left make it come true, but now killing brown people for your own cynical ends is "just politics," according to the left. I could simply not have more contempt for the left than I do now.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (bxiXv)

258 247Heheh...Goldberg, NRO side bar...
"Fast-forward to chief haruspex John Roberts." 
 

Posted by: dananjcon at June 29, 2012 03:03 PM (eavT+)

 

 

I do have to aggree, that Roberts has guts.... but then again Benedict Arnold was a HERO... before the betrayal.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (lZBBB)

259 O/T  Funny from Jim Treacher:

. is headed to Colorado. I have a good feeling about his plan to tax the trees for burning.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (UOM48)

260 Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country. John Adams

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (mFxQX)

261 Nobody gives a fuck about this...whatever it is.

You're like a mynah bird on meth.

Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at June 29, 2012 02:54 PM (oP+TW)

 

Obviously people do. Enough that you come to this website to get your rocks off. What's the matter grade school is out and you can't slink around there for your jollies.

Did you get kicked out of the park again ?  

Posted by: The Jackhole at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (nTgAI)

262 >>He was out there spreading a message of grace and redemption to the least, the last, and the lost.

Odd.  In the translations I've read, the Redemption offered through Christ doesn't come through demanding Caesar stick it to rich people.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 10:06 AM (ZKzrr)

263 If the gun is stolen (so can't be traced directly to you), for instance, it makes sense to drop the weapon at the scene- it won't lead to you

Plus, police are frequently going to be on scene shortly after a shooting, and they might 'stop and frisk' you if you're still in the area.  So only stingy criminals would keep the gun.

Posted by: wooga at June 29, 2012 10:07 AM (vjyZP)

264 234 Iowa Bob,
Last I checked --- Mexico is a sovereign with their own laws.
Our laws don't apply to Mexico if they want to prosecute Holder irrespective ifhe was pardoned by a U.S. President.

Posted by: Scandia at June 29, 2012 03:00 PM (WzLTm)

I'm clear on Mexican sovereignty, my question is, Would a US Presidential pardon prevent the US from extraditing him to Mexico to answer charges there?


Posted by: Iowa Bob at June 29, 2012 10:07 AM (RJ+Yj)

265 Come, come, children. Did we say this is a scandal? This is Scandal: http://preview.tinyurl.com/7buby3v

Posted by: The Political Hat (@ThePoliticalHat) at June 29, 2012 10:07 AM (XvHmy)

266 FWIW Over the last few months some black friends (who previously defended Obama) reactivated their accounts and are silent on him.  Others who unfriended me over him in the past, have re-friended me recently and don't want to talk about politics.

Anecdotaly, some shift has happened under the surface.  I know some more principled ones that now feel very apathetic over his drone strokes and war practices, etc...  Don't know if the others who seemed to be caught up in the hype, feel used, deceived, disillusioned.  Don't know if they maybe started noticing media spin.

Something has reached critical mass recently.  Some regular low information, non activists, sorta religious but lean democrat etc.. have made a conscious decision to turn their back on him.  Not one said a peep about the ruling yesterday.

Posted by: Shiggz Rocketsurgeon at June 29, 2012 10:07 AM (RfvTE)

267 >>I have a good feeling about his plan to tax the trees for burning.

Those trees are releasing carbon dioxide and particulate pollutants into the atmosphere.  Gonna be the mother of all EPA fines.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 29, 2012 10:08 AM (ZKzrr)

268 234--"Mexico is a sovereign with their own laws. Our laws don't apply to Mexico if they want to prosecute Holder irrespective ifhe was pardoned by a U.S. President. " True, but we don't have to extradite him --- and we shouldn't, BTW. ( Unless you want to extradite Bush to Belgium or wherever so they can try him for "war crimes.")

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 10:08 AM (C8mVl)

269 &</div> <p class="posted">

Posted by: maverick muse at June 29, 2012 10:08 AM (BAnPT)

270

All of his objections then were simply to put politics ahead of justice.

 

>> As it has been  and always will  be with these bastards

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at June 29, 2012 10:08 AM (mFxQX)

271 sooth, is He going to go through the deficit line by line , like He said in 2008?

Posted by: willow at June 29, 2012 10:09 AM (TomZ9)

272 &[/div]

Posted by: maverick muse at June 29, 2012 10:09 AM (BAnPT)

273 Also:  in case it hasn't been mentioned:  Watergate did not have a body count. 

Barack Obama, and senior Administration Officials including the Attorney General, Secretary of Homeland Security, and almost certainly the Secretary of State colluded to engage in a covert act of war against an allied foreign power.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:09 AM (8y9MW)

274 >>>okay… So… Bush created


You can try and sell that meme all you want. But it just won't sell. There are just too many facts to overcome this time. Your best bet is to get Holder to resign quietly at this point.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:09 AM (0q2P7)

275
willow, Obama is gonna perform miracles from now until November

the only proof we'll have of these miracles is what the media reports, of course


Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:10 AM (G/zuv)

276 Those trees are releasing carbon dioxide and particulate pollutants into the atmosphere. Gonna be the mother of all EPA fines.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at June 29, 2012 03:08 PM (ZKzrr




Heather, are you sure the EPA didn't seize your tomatoes yesterday?  Were they organic?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 10:10 AM (UOM48)

277 Imagine if FF guns showed up in any of these buy-backs? Posted by: massideas at June 29, 2012 03:03 PM (qF3P2) That would be Gangwalker, a separate program in which the ATF provided guns to American gangs. I am not kidding. Then we can talk about State Departmen't "grenades to MS13" program, Operation Castaway. The whole administration is psychotic.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 10:11 AM (bxiXv)

278 Any precedent for extradition requests from foreign governments for US
officials over actions taken as part of their official duties?



Trust me, you don't want this. Think of all the international corp in the US. There would some places it would be illegal just to make a profit. Obama would gladly turn over anyone to an international or european court.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at June 29, 2012 10:11 AM (ZhEoC)

279 Obviously, Obama is going to Colorado to speak, so it will rain and put the fires out.  CNN Told me so.

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 10:11 AM (UK9cE)

280

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 03:04 PM (0q2P7)

 

 

And yet, we are sending both Hit teams, and using Drones, across the globe, on CIVILIAN sometimes POLITICAL targets, in the War on Terror.  Annddd... we've extradited and convicted 'terrorists' who provided bomb components to those who then used them to Kill people, even when they said they did not know what those components were going to be used for.

 

 

Oh, and we invaded Panama, to get Noriega, who broke US law even though what he was doing was Legal in Panama....

 

 

We've opened a very interesting can of legal worms, with our 'worldwide jurisdiction'.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:12 AM (lZBBB)

281 [/div]
Posted by: maverick muse

Something you wanted to say?

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 10:13 AM (famk3)

282 They wanted murders to take place.  Robbery is a crime but no robber holds up a store and drops the gun as they walk out.  Someone in the store might pick it up and shoot the robber in the back.

A murderer sometimes drops the gun so if he's stopped on the sidewalk right in front of the muder scene he won't have a gun and he can say,  "that isn't mine."

So,  Holder wanted crime scenes but more specifically,  he wanted murder scenes.

Murdergate.  Or for a Spanish flair,  Homicidiogate.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:13 AM (Ky1+e)

283 http://preview.tinyurl.com/7buby3v

Posted by: The Political Hat (@ThePoliticalHat) at June 29, 2012 03:07 PM (XvHmy)

***

OMG...I got thru exactly 2.3seconds of that.

Posted by: dananjcon at June 29, 2012 10:13 AM (eavT+)

284
So if the DoJ wanted to stop human sex trafficking, would they enter into the human trafficking market and kidnap and sell women?

It makes as much sense as putting guns in the hands of criminals to stop guns from getting in the hands of criminals.

Posted by: soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:13 AM (G/zuv)

285

 

Barky in Colorado Springs......"You don't need to rebuild your homes....donate that money to Meeee!"

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 10:13 AM (jPxSq)

286

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 03:09 PM (8y9MW)

 

I still have a feeling... with no evidence... that this ends up on Valerie Jarrets, and Kagan's desk....

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:14 AM (lZBBB)

287

does this make sense?

Even if Holder and everyone important is pardoned, there will be trials for the underlings, and Holder will be questioned under oath.  He has to testify and cannot take the 5th, because he has been pardoned / immune from prosecution. 

 

 

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 10:15 AM (9sUlj)

288 Listen up, wingnuts... this is nothing but a witch hunt. Racists! I cant stay and argue.. I am eating lunch with fresh tomato's.

Posted by: Heather's Tomato thief at June 29, 2012 10:15 AM (DGIjM)

289 >>>with our 'worldwide jurisdiction'.

Yes, global politics is a F*ing nightmare, and if we could all get along war would be obsolete. As far as our aggression in the past 100 years. Please point me to a global superpower anywhere in history that has been as hands off as we have been. Yes we haven't been perfect. Yes we are the most magnificent country in the history of the world to have tried to lead it.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (0q2P7)

290 Truly, you have a dizzying intellect, Mr Holder

Posted by: Wait till I get going! at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (g1gNG)

291
I'm really worried about my wife, whom I love to death. I think someone wants to kill her.

To prevent this from happening, I will kill my life to prove how easy it is to kill my wife, thus saving her. And her boyfriend.

Posted by: O.J. Simpson at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (G/zuv)

292 BTW - this is all out of Phoenix,  right?  One city.  One.  Uno.

Are there others?  I'm just playing reporter here since most of them seem to be on break or something.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:16 AM (Ky1+e)

293 "So the gun store owner is going to have every gun in his store submitted for ballistic analysis before he puts them on the shelves?"

Every pistol I have purchased for years has come with a couple of spent casings, meaning that the gun was fired twice and the rounds were (ostensibly) retained for whatever ballistic "fingerprint" can be had from the rounds. I think that goes back to the Bradey law.

I think that in fact, no crimes have been resolved by this process, I could be wrong about that, but I remember reading that the whole process is a bit futile.

Posted by: navybrat at June 29, 2012 10:17 AM (LRY2r)

294 Now we know the gust of the wiretap applications.

So what could Holder have offered in those few pages (32 ??) that would make him think that Issa would close up shop ?

1) authority to proceed from George W. Bush  (that explains the old stuff)
2) authority to proceed from Barack Obama (that explains the contempt charge)
3) authority to proceed from the President of Mexico (now that's scary)

Posted by: E Howad Hunt at June 29, 2012 10:17 AM (e8kgV)

295

OT The Obama administration on Friday threatened to veto a defense appropriations bill in part because it does not include higher health care fees for members of the military.

“The Administration is disappointed that the Congress did not incorporate the requested TRICARE fee initiatives into either the appropriation or authorization legislation,” the White House wrote ...

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 10:18 AM (GvYeG)

296 The final solution to the second amendment problem.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 29, 2012 10:19 AM (Hx5uv)

297 282---"...Noriega, who broke US law even though what he was doing was Legal in Panama...." Are you completamente loco? Drug-running, money-laundering, graft, suspending elections, ruling by executive decree and ignoring the legislature, corrupting and taking over the Guardia Civil, imposing a "protection tax" on churches, etc., etc., etc. ----None of those things were legal in Panama.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 10:19 AM (C8mVl)

298

FYI if you want to know more, look up David Codrea at the examiner.com.

 

Follow the links from there.  Sorry, I do not do tinyurl.

Posted by: rd at June 29, 2012 10:20 AM (9sUlj)

299 Every pistol I have purchased for years has come with a couple of spent casings, meaning that the gun was fired twice and the rounds were (ostensibly) retained for whatever ballistic "fingerprint" can be had from the rounds. I think that goes back to the Bradey law.


Well they should also keep the casings.  They are part of the evidence used to determine what gun was used.  I have never bought a gun that included shell casings,  myself.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:20 AM (Ky1+e)

300

What? That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes).

 

What the actual fuck? Good God. I would like to hope that if I were an FBI agent and I knew about this that I would have the courage to stand up in front of the world and shout at the top of my lungs about this. I know there's at least one agent who did and I'm ashamed to admit I'm blanking on his name.

Posted by: alexthechick - Jindal 2020 at June 29, 2012 10:20 AM (VtjlW)

301

"I still have a feeling... with no evidence... that this ends up on Valerie Jarrets, and Kagan's desk...."

 

Well, that sure  beats being UNDER Valerie Jarret's and Kagan's desks.

{shudder}

Posted by: Jaws at June 29, 2012 10:20 AM (4I3Uo)

302

Biggest tax in history - check

Fucking with the military - check

Muzzie fundies running Egypt - check

F and F - check

November.Bitches. 

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 10:21 AM (GvYeG)

303

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 03:16 PM (0q2P7)

 

 

My point is that we've mud'ied up the international rules to a large extent... we've created a Precedent whereby we could not really say crap if Mexico somehow got ahold of Holder.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:22 AM (lZBBB)

304 "I still have a feeling... with no evidence... that this ends up on Valerie Jarrets, and Kagan's desk...."


Kagan,  Kagan.  Name rings a bell.  Where does she work now?

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:22 AM (Ky1+e)

305

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 02:40 PM (i3+c5)

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

Perhaps some of the papers that the preezy is guarding will say that the Holder DOJ appoved payouts to druglords that bought US guns.  You know, a reverse tax.

Posted by: Soona at June 29, 2012 10:22 AM (EuBkc)

306 Every pistol I have purchased for years has come with a couple of spent casings, Posted by: navybrat at June 29, 2012 03:17 PM (LRY2r) It's not generally for ballistics, and has nothing to do with Brady (per se). NY and MD require a spent case to be submitted for big expensive programs that don't solve any crimes. Not really ballistics as they don't submit the bullet. A few states require proof of testing, so the case is included just to show that it was tested. Not all manufacturers do either one, they just don't sell in the states listed above (as new).

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 10:22 AM (bxiXv)

307 Holder will be questioned under oath. He has to testify and cannot take the 5th, because he has been pardoned / immune from prosecution.Posted by: rd

Mr. Prosecuting Attorney, I have been pardoned for the purpose of avoiding prosecution, but I have not been pardoned for the purposes of oaths.

So, suck it.

Posted by: Easy E. Holder [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 10:23 AM (famk3)

308 "Well they should also keep the casings."

For all know, they did and just threw a couple of casings as a visual reminder.

It could be a California thing, as that is where I live.

Posted by: navybrat at June 29, 2012 10:23 AM (LRY2r)

309 I have never bought a gun that included shell casings, myself.

My pistol came with two.  It think that's been the case for a while, now.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:24 AM (8y9MW)

310 >>>They are part of the evidence used to determine what gun was used. I have never bought a gun that included shell casings, myself.

Eh, the casings aren't useful unless you intend to keep using the exact same brand that the test firer did. Also, if your projectile has a different composition than the test projectile the "finger print" can be completely different. Usually when they do ballistic analysis they have to fire the exact same projectile. Large differences in powder load can also cause changes to ballistic markings. I never understood how this was supposed to work.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:24 AM (0q2P7)

311

Based on the overloaded servers, I think those low information voters are gaining some information, and they will be pissed.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 29, 2012 10:24 AM (Z6meB)

312

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 03:19 PM (C8mVl)

 

So, the US Military was used to enforce Panamanian Law?  interesting...

 

We wanted him gone, and used the US Law as the excuse... which is the point I'm making.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:24 AM (lZBBB)

313 Gun manufacturers do not fire guns and keep "rifling" records.  There is no federal law requiring that. Colt used to test fire one round in their pistols and ytou could see that by the powder ring burned around one cylinder.  But they did not even attempt to recover the bullet.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:24 AM (YdQQY)

314 Seems like undeniable proof of perjury and conspiracy to commit murder.   Holder and Cummings should both be tried and executed.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 10:25 AM (25e/8)

315 "We said we would monitor the guns as they turned up at crime scenes, but it's really just a tax on the people who were there. That's legal. There's Supreme Court precedent for that, don't you know?

"Oh, someone died? There's a tax for that, too. So that's okay. Read the ruling and get out of my face, bitch!"

Government bureaucrats are not invigorated. Let the crucifixions begin! Hail, Caesar!


Posted by: Jay Bee at June 29, 2012 10:25 AM (Xwgt3)

316 Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 03:22 PM (lZBBB)

As much as I would enjoy the prospect of Holder spending 50 years in a shithole Mexican jail...he belongs in a US prison.

But let's be honest; Holder won't ever see the inside of a jail cell. Congress doesn't have the balls to have him arrested, and Obama (pbuh) will pardon him if there is even a hint of jail time.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:25 AM (nEUpB)

317 Oops  - "now invigorated"

Posted by: Jay Bee at June 29, 2012 10:26 AM (Xwgt3)

318 cannot take the 5th


Yeah,  so the congress is going to waterboard Holder?

If he does testify,  play a drinking game where you take a drink every time Holder says, "I don't remember."  Drunk in two minutes.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:26 AM (Ky1+e)

319 41 Well duh.

Gunwalker shut down because they couldn't keep 100% tracking of weapons that they were feeding thru to discover the network and they might be used for crimes.

FandF went hog wild jamming them thru because weapons showing up at crime scenes was the point.

Posted by: DaveA at June 29, 2012 02:19 PM (EyTMo)

It's not gunwalker, it was linebacker during Bush admin.  Precision is important here.  Gunwalker is the name given to F&F by new media watchdogs Codrea and Vanderboegh, IIRC. Let's not forget that these two drove this to Grassley and later to Issa for well on a year prior to any old media picking this up, upon speculation that this was solely to legitimize the 90% lie that had recently been debunked.  Those two are your Woodward and Bernstein.

Posted by: Flounder at June 29, 2012 10:26 AM (Kkt/i)

320 It was the libs that wanted the international court to try US soldiers, IIRC Holder's firm was involved in that before he was AG. Hmmm, the sweet taste of irony would make my teeth hurt.

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:26 AM (WkuV6)

321 >>>we've created a Precedent whereby we could not really say crap if Mexico somehow got ahold of Holder.

Oh no, if Mexico *ahem* got ahold of Holder some how. That's a different story. Us deliberately extraditing him however, that's not a good idea.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:26 AM (0q2P7)

322

 

But...but....they solve crimes on TV all the time, using that big 'ballistics data base' that's in their computers.

I've seen them do it!

So it must be true.

/s

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 10:27 AM (jPxSq)

323

1. Sudden emergency restrictions on internet use.

 

2. Massive, blatant voter fraud.

 

It's coming.  We know they murder people to promote policies. What wouldn't they do?

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at June 29, 2012 10:27 AM (w41GQ)

324 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 03:24 PM (0q2P7)

And normal wear and tear will change the markings on the casing.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:27 AM (nEUpB)

325 Just saw via Fox a headline, DoJ will not prosecute Holder.

I am not surprised.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 10:27 AM (DuH+r)

326 The problem with this story is that it is too complicated for the average America idiot to comprehend.

Issa and Romney need to boil this down into one easily understood sentence.

"Fast & Furious was designed to track guns by digging bullets out of dead bodies."

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at June 29, 2012 10:27 AM (hlUJY)

327 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 03:25 PM (nEUpB)


Besides, you can bet Holder has copies of a lot of documents related to Obama that have been "shielded" from public view (prebably in a Cayman Island safe deposit box).  Talk about a guaranteed get out of jail free card!

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (i3+c5)

328 So as not to get caught with the murder weapon.It's no different than dumping the gun in a river or lake.If you have easy access to additional guns (and it's clear that our government made sure that they did) then there's no reason to keep a hot gun. Posted by: Ben LaBolt at June 29, 2012 02:33 PM (JxMoP) If I may respectfully disagree, when these guys are confronted by law enforcement, they don't stop and put their hands up. Posted by: ErikW at June 29, 2012 02:38 PM (k0ks4) No, they don't, but they do know that one thing law enforcement always looks for is the murder weapon. So leaving it right there at the scene is a great big "F*ck You" to investigators and a way of telling them that "you know who did this and you will never capture us".

Posted by: Nighthawk at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (xgv+v)

329 305---"My point is that we've mud'ied up the international rules to a large extent... we've created a Precedent whereby we could not really say crap if Mexico somehow got ahold of Holder." Well, if he were foolish enough to take a vacation to Cancun, I suppose they could arrest him. And for many reasons, including the ones you state, we would keep negotiations for his freedom secret. IOW, we wouldn't "say crap" publicly.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (C8mVl)

330

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 03:25 PM (nEUpB)

 

 

I'm talking about Mexican Law.... we set the precedent whereby those who give weapons to Killers (in our case Al Q, in their Case Narcos) can be extradited, and convicted, even if what they did was in a foreign country.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:28 AM (lZBBB)

331 311, NYC or NYS had a ballistics test program - but I think it has been cancelled

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:29 AM (WkuV6)

332

321....It's not gunwalker, it was linebacker during Bush admin

 

I thought it was called....operation 'Wide Receiver', during the Bush admin.

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 10:29 AM (jPxSq)

333 Eh, the casings aren't useful unless you intend to keep using the exact same brand that the test firer did. Also, if your projectile has a different composition than the test projectile the "finger print" can be completely different. Usually when they do ballistic analysis they have to fire the exact same projectile. Large differences in powder load can also cause changes to ballistic markings. I never understood how this was supposed to work.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free!

They can use the casings to match scratches left by ejecting and by scratches left by loading into clips.  Even a reloader can also leave matchable scratches and markings on the case.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:30 AM (Ky1+e)

334 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 03:24 PM (YdQQY)

We're talking about marks left on shell casings by the firing pin, chamber and extractor.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:30 AM (nEUpB)

335 Breaking Via Twitter (so 72 minute/hour rule applies)  DoJ Says they won't prosecute Holder for Contempt.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:30 AM (8y9MW)

336 >>>Yeah, so the congress is going to waterboard Holder?

>>>If he does testify, play a drinking game where you take a drink every time Holder says, "I don't remember." Drunk in two minutes.

Wait until Obama loses in November and issues the Pardon. At which point Holder is called in for questioning not by congress but by a special prosecutor. Fist IHNCROTC (i have no....you get it) answer he gives, charge him with contempt hold him in prison till his memory clears up.

Once he is no longer AG and Obama can't issue new pardons to cover Holder's coverups the rules change....a lot. Either answer the F*king questions or go to jail.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:30 AM (0q2P7)

337 Just saw via Fox a headline, DoJ will not prosecute Holder. I am not surprised. Posted by: BeckoningChasm Cool, can we get the Seargent-at-Arms to perp walk him out of Disneyland for trial on the floor.

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:31 AM (WkuV6)

338 The last 2 or 3 pistols I have bought were used, and no casings. Private deal, sellers were cops (and related to me).

Posted by: navybrat at June 29, 2012 10:31 AM (LRY2r)

339
So then Holder is above the law?

Roger Clemens on the other hand...

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:31 AM (G/zuv)

340 327 Just saw via Fox a headline, DoJ will not prosecute Holder. Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 29, 2012 03:27 PM (DuH+r) Lawless Administration.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 10:31 AM (bxiXv)

341
And we can't find a federal judge somewhere who will issue an arrest warrant for Eric Holder?

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:32 AM (G/zuv)

342 So, the US Military was used to enforce Panamanian Law? interesting...

We wanted him gone, and used the US Law as the excuse... which is the point I'm making.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 03:24 PM (lZBBB)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Actually, no.  We didn't decide to do anything until Noriega's goons started threatening and then killing US  soldiers stationed there.

Posted by: Soona at June 29, 2012 10:32 AM (EuBkc)

343 Jindal not implementing Obamacare.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 10:32 AM (SUKHu)

344 They can use the casings to match scratches left by ejecting and by scratches left by loading into clips. Even a reloader can also leave matchable scratches and markings on the case.
Posted by: Dang

I forgot,  they also match firing pin marks.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:32 AM (Ky1+e)

345 Hmm... Roll Call still locked up tighter that a ducks ass. If i was a tin foil hat kinda guy.... 

Posted by: dananjcon at June 29, 2012 10:32 AM (eavT+)

346 Hollowpoint, Convenience. ?

They have a 747 coming in twice a week full of drugs from Chavez, a couple of crates of Russian surplus wouldn't be a big deal. It makes no sense, if you want to nab the strw purchasers, sure, but no Mexicans. What US law did the Mexicans break buying guns in Mexico.


That still requires transporting them from Argentina (or wherever), and from the airport to the border area.  Coca farmers in Brazil and Argentina can produce cocaine, but not rifles.

There's no question that they were using US guns even before Fast and Furious, though it's nowhere near the bullshit 90% figure the left and MSM (BIRM) were parroting.

With more intense border protection against illegals, being able to stop smuggling of cash and weapons back into Mexico would be a side benefit.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 29, 2012 10:33 AM (SY2Kh)

347

Jindal called the health care plan a “blow to our freedoms” and said the “president forced this law on us.”

“It really raises the question of what’s next, what’s allowable,” Jindal said on a Republican National Committee Conference Call. “Taxes on people who refuse to eat tofu or refuse to drive a Chevy Volt…this whole ruling I think is ridiculous. It’s a huge expansion of federal power.”

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 10:33 AM (SUKHu)

348 Jindal not implementing Obamacare.

Neither is Walker.  They're my heroes.

Here's hoping Texas follows suit (actually, I hope we go even further than that).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:33 AM (8y9MW)

349 >>>They can use the casings to match scratches left by ejecting and by scratches left by loading into clips.

As far as I know those are unique to weapon type but not to each weapon unless they have an inconsistent machining.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:34 AM (0q2P7)

350 314---"So, the US Military was used to enforce Panamanian Law? interesting...We wanted him gone, and used the US Law as the excuse... which is the point I'm making." Your point is very well taken, IMO. (I was simply objecting to the claim that Noriega's behavior was legal in Panama when in fact he broke far more Panamanian laws than US ones.)

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 10:34 AM (C8mVl)

351 Posted by: dananjcon at June 29, 2012 03:32 PM (eavT+)

According to the MBM, you are!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:34 AM (nEUpB)

352 Why the fuck would I prosecute myself,  bitches?  -Eric Holder

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:34 AM (Ky1+e)

353 We're talking about marks left on shell casings by the firing pin, chamber and extractor.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 03:30 PM (nEUpB)


I have never seen shell casings supplied with any new gun.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:34 AM (YdQQY)

354 But...but....they solve crimes on TV all the time, using that big 'ballistics data base' that's in their computers.
I've seen them do it!
So it must be true.
/s

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 03:27 PM (jPxSq)



Enhance and zoomify!!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 10:34 AM (UK9cE)

355 Looks like it about time for Ace to steal some content from HotAir.

Has Team Obama got around to telling us how much more money they raised than Romney yesterday?

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 29, 2012 10:35 AM (kSaUf)

356 320 ---"Yeah, so the congress is going to waterboard Holder?" Hot damn! What I would pay to see that!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 10:35 AM (C8mVl)

357 As far as I know those are unique to weapon type but not to each weapon unless they have an inconsistent machining.

I believe you're correct, but even that can be a help, since it varies by specific model, in most cases.  It allows LEO to at least narrow down the kind of gun used.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:36 AM (8y9MW)

358 As far as I know those are unique to weapon type but not to each weapon unless they have an inconsistent machining.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free!

Exactly.  Like inconsistent rifling in the barrel.

Posted by: Dang at June 29, 2012 10:36 AM (Ky1+e)

359 58 "That's the first I've seen it reported, as a fact, that the intent was actually murder -- that they'd track the guns via their appearance at murders (and other crime scenes)."

And here you thought the 'Big Theory' of the motives driving Fast Furious was too implausible, that no Administration, however ideologically driven,could be so babbling batshit insane to deliberately bring about the violent deaths of hundreds of people to further its policy agenda. Told you so.

Posted by: troyriser at June 29, 2012 02:24 PM (vtiE6)


Have to say, while not a fan of the "I told you so," I recall getting pummeled pretty well for raising the same suspicions.  Smell that son?  That's retribution.  There's nothing like it.  I love the smell of retribution in the morning. Smell's like . . . victory.

Posted by: Kilgore at June 29, 2012 10:37 AM (Kkt/i)

360
okay, so let's recap, according to federal law...

--It is no longer illegal to be illegal in the U.S.
--Contempt for Congress is merely symbolic
--It is illegal not to buy health insurance
--Religious organizations have no First Amendment rights



Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:37 AM (G/zuv)

361 >>>They're my heroes.

At this point, I hate to say it, but I hope they cause a Constitutional crisis. It seems to be the shortest road to freedom at this point.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:37 AM (0q2P7)

362

So DOJ won't prosecute Holder.  What a surprise. 

 

Now what?

Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 10:37 AM (fkaOH)

363 Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 03:28 PM (lZBBB)

Yes, your broader point is interesting, but my point is that Holder belongs here, in an American prison, just because of who he is.

No argument though. If my choice was Mexican or nothing? Who do I have to bribe to get it done?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:37 AM (nEUpB)

364 Neither is Walker. They're my heroes.

Here's hoping Texas follows suit (actually, I hope we go even further than that).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 03:33 PM (8y9MW)



We still have to pay the tax, no? 

Posted by: Sponge at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (UK9cE)

365 Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 03:37 PM (fkaOH)

Start drinking.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (nEUpB)

366 >>Has Team Obama got around to telling us how much more money they raised than Romney yesterday?

It's nonsensical that libs would have donated a ton of money yesterday.

Next week they'll claim their account was hacked.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (SUKHu)

367 Let's see what the polls say. There is no way Obama's approval ratings don't crater. If there is no movement, or they rise--there is no hope.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (Cadn7)

368 Fast and Furious beats by far as an expression of culpability, "Hotter than a two dollar shotgun."

Posted by: DM at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (LaKlJ)

369 Issa is going after The King.
Better not miss...

Posted by: navybrat at June 29, 2012 10:38 AM (LRY2r)

370 From Wiki: On the floor of the House or the Senate, the reported resolution is considered privileged and, if the resolution of contempt is passed, the chamber has several options to enforce its mandate. [edit] Inherent contempt Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation). Concerned with the time-consuming nature of a contempt proceeding and the inability to extend punishment further than the session of the Congress concerned (under Supreme Court rulings), Congress created a statutory process in 1857. While Congress retains its "inherent contempt" authority and may exercise it at any time, this inherent contempt process was last used by the Senate in 1934, in a Senate investigation of airlines and the U.S. Postmaster. After a one-week trial on the Senate floor (presided over by the Vice-President of the United States, acting as Senate President), William P. MacCracken, Jr., a lawyer and former Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Aeronautics who had allowed clients to rip up subpoenaed documents, was found guilty and sentenced to 10 days imprisonment.[5] MacCracken filed a petition of habeas corpus in federal courts to overturn his arrest, but after litigation, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Congress had acted constitutionally, and denied the petition in the case Jurney v. MacCracken.[6][7] Presidential pardons appear not to apply to a civil contempt procedure such as the above, since it is not an "offense against the United States" or against "the dignity of public authority."[8]

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:39 AM (WkuV6)

371

Just came over the wire:

 

Justice Department says in letter obtained by Fox News it won't prosecute Attorney General Eric Holder after the GOP-led House voted to hold him in criminal contempt of Congress

I'm shocked.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at June 29, 2012 10:39 AM (YmPwQ)

372 Start drinking.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 03:38 PM (nEUpB)

 

Heavily?

 

Hell, it's 5:00 somewhere. 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 10:39 AM (fkaOH)

373

I meant "by far as an expression..."

Sorry

Posted by: DM at June 29, 2012 10:40 AM (LaKlJ)

374 Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 03:34 PM (YdQQY)

Try to stay with the class.

Casings collected at the scene of a crime can be linked to type of weapon based on markings left on the casings.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:40 AM (nEUpB)

375 I have never seen shell casings supplied with any new gun. The last hand gun I bought,Walther PPK, had an empty casing in the box.

Posted by: cicero skip at June 29, 2012 10:40 AM (3m9Uc)

376 At this point, I hate to say it, but I hope they cause a Constitutional crisis. It seems to be the shortest road to freedom at this point.

Me, too.

We still have to pay the tax, no?

That's why I hope Texas goes further.  I hope that Texas takes active steps to shield her residents from the Federal Government on this.  That includes any penalties for failing to pay the tax.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:41 AM (8y9MW)

377

“It really raises the question of what’s next, what’s allowable,”
Jindal said on a Republican National Committee Conference Call. “Taxes
on people who refuse to eat tofu or refuse to drive a Chevy Volt…this
whole ruling I think is ridiculous. It’s a huge expansion of federal
power.”

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

 

Unless the  Ocare abortion  is repealed entirely, we may be looking at a constitutional crisis......and that might not be a bad thing.

Posted by: Soona at June 29, 2012 10:41 AM (EuBkc)

378 Just got off work. Of course, nobody knew about the SCOTUS ruling. Please god, let there be hope.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at June 29, 2012 10:41 AM (Cadn7)

379 Brian Terry ? I'm in Disney World crakkers! What a piece of shit.

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (bJKyW)

380 364 Wait for it. This isn't over.

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (GvYeG)

381 334
321....It's not gunwalker, it was linebacker during Bush admin

I thought it was called....operation 'Wide Receiver', during the Bush admin.

Posted by: wheatie at June 29, 2012 03:29 PM (jPxSq)


You're right.  Terminology is important.  I just cocked it up, too.

Posted by: Flounder at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (Kkt/i)

382 Congressional record [Page: H4409]

Posted by: E Howard Hunt at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (e8kgV)

383 369--- "Let's see what the polls say. There is no way Obama's approval ratings don't crater. If there is no movement, or they rise--there is no hope" It's JUNE, for heaven's sake. Polls are going to bounce around. Shouldn't get depressed at bad ones, shouldn't get cocky about good ones. It's too far out.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (C8mVl)

384

That's why I hope Texas goes further. I hope that Texas takes active steps to shield her residents from the Federal Government on this. That includes any penalties for failing to pay the tax.

 

As much as I love this idea, if this is a federal tax, how can a state shield its residents from having to pay it?

Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (fkaOH)

385

>>>That's why I hope Texas goes further. I hope that Texas takes active steps to shield her residents from the Federal Government on this. That includes any penalties for failing to pay the tax.

 

Is that actually possible.  Isn't the IRS in charge of enforcing the "penalties"?

Posted by: Infidel at June 29, 2012 10:42 AM (O/fK8)

386
Let's make this clear: Eric Holder will not prosecute Eric Holder.

This isn't the DoJ's decision as if it's some faceless bureaucracy. Eric Holder is the fuckin boss. He is The Man at DoJ.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:43 AM (G/zuv)

387 Hollowpoint, Chavez = Venezuela, the consolidation flights originate in Caracas. Probably at the same terminal Aeroflot delivers Russian guns at

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:43 AM (WkuV6)

388 So DOJ won't prosecute Holder. What a surprise.

Now what?>>

Pull the funding for the DOJ.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 29, 2012 10:43 AM (tf9Ne)

389 >>>Exactly. Like inconsistent rifling in the barrel.

Rifling is impossible to get consistent. The rest of the weapon...not so much. Cutting a 6"- 2' spiral grooved hole down the center of a piece of metal is a much harder machining task than machining a stupid ejector pin. Additionally the high forces that a projectile is under during acceleration amplify even small differences in machining. The ejector parts are usually much more consistent. And what I normally hear is based on casings you cannot say with certainty that it is the same gun you can only use it for elimination.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:43 AM (0q2P7)

390 I hope that Texas takes active steps to shield her residents from the Federal Government on this. And me with a Texas house loan pre-approval right here in my hands. I am looking forward to the day I shake the dust of California off of my feat.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 29, 2012 10:44 AM (QF8uk)

391 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 03:41 PM (8y9MW)

If Texas takes the lead in eviscerating ACA, I might have to try to convince my wife to reconsider moving there.

Does it get hot in Texas?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:44 AM (nEUpB)

392 Does it get hot in Texas? It tops a hundred degrees most days of the year. In the winter, it rains flaming cats.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 29, 2012 10:45 AM (QF8uk)

393 Unless the Ocare abortion is repealed entirely, we may be looking at a constitutional crisis......and that might not be a bad thing.

We're in the middle (maybe near the end, really...) of a constitutional crisis.  It began with Wickward v Filburn (at the latest).  It will take an act of rebellion (hopefully peaceful rebellion will suffice) on the part of the States to end it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:45 AM (8y9MW)

394 393 nahhhh 103 or 104

Posted by: Honey Tiberius Badger, drinker of mead at June 29, 2012 10:45 AM (GvYeG)

395 As much as I love this idea, if this is a federal tax, how can a state shield its residents from having to pay it? Posted by: Marybeth Offer a State tax credit to match it, or pass a State level HIPPA tyoe law that forbids Texas insurers from sharing information with the IRS (base it off of EU privacy law to make certain SCOTUS members more comfortable.)

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:45 AM (WkuV6)

396 >>>Please god, let there be hope.

God is the hope, it's just that sometimes these mysterious ways are really pretty dang mysterious.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (0q2P7)

397 As much as I love this idea, if this is a federal tax, how can a state shield its residents from having to pay it?

Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 03:42 PM (fkaOH

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Remember the stories about record sales of guns.  Just sayin'.

Posted by: Soona at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (EuBkc)

398 I am looking forward to the day I shake the dust of California off of my feat. Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 29, 2012 03:44 PM (QF8uk) Where you headed? And hurry before Cali decides it needs an Exit Tax...

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (UZQM8)

399

OT:  Katie Holmes files for divorce from Tom Cruise! 

 

I don't understand, they seemed so perfect.  My whole world is turned upside down... black is white, cats are dogs, unconstitutional is constitutional!

Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (TOk1P)

400 OK, here's the plan: we dump 2,000 assault rifles in Mexico, along the border. We make sure the nastiest, head choppingest, cartel madmen get 'em. Wait for the bodies to pile up, and then fire up the TOTUS, "A ha! Look at all the people killed by too-easy-to-get US weapons! It's a national disgrace and we've GOT to do something! Oh, the humanity!"

Posted by: Yep, I'm a big dumby dumb-dumb at June 29, 2012 10:46 AM (yn6XZ)

401 Does it get hot in Texas?>>

Not compared to where I live.

Posted by: Ted Kenedy at June 29, 2012 10:47 AM (tf9Ne)

402 Hollowpoint, Chavez = Venezuela, the consolidation flights originate in Caracas. Probably at the same terminal Aeroflot delivers Russian guns at

Bah- I always get those two countries confused.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 29, 2012 10:47 AM (SY2Kh)

403 >>Does it get hot in Texas?

Yes, so just come on over to Louisiana instead.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 10:47 AM (SUKHu)

404 It isn't up to the DOJ to decide whether or not to prosecute Holder for criminal contempt.  The law requires it to go to a Washington prosecutor  who takes it to a Grand Jury who will arrive at a finding.

If THEY find cause exists they will issue a True Bill which then requires he be prosecuted.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:47 AM (YdQQY)

405 As much as I love this idea, if this is a federal tax, how can a state shield its residents from having to pay it?

By refusing to assist.  By not allowing its prisons to be used to house "criminals" who have not paid this tax.  By forbidding, within its borders, any person from enforcing any part of the law.

Then, you just tell your residents, "Don't bother paying, we'll keep them from bothering you."

And, yes, that will force a Constitutional Showdown.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:47 AM (8y9MW)

406

"Pull the funding for the DOJ."

"Inherent contempt of Congress"

"Prison"

 

All delightful to contemplate.

 

Would Issa be able to issue an arrest warrant?  Or do we have to rely on crybaby Boehner?

And who would go grab him out of DisneyWorld? 

 

 

 

Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 10:48 AM (fkaOH)

407 Doesn't it fall to the US Attorney for DC to empanel a grand jury? Is that the DoJ? If so, and the USA for DC won't empanel the grand jury, then what recourse does the House have? Could they have the Sergeant at Arms arrest him?

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at June 29, 2012 10:48 AM (RD7QR)

408
I can understand the Obama admin resisting this any which they can. It's too close to an election to get Obama's AG tangled up in a full blown scandal.

Congress needs to press harder and not let up.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:48 AM (G/zuv)

409 Yeah I always thought the whole ballistics deal was over rated. I can recall when Charlie Schumer wanted individual serial numbers put on every round, for crying out loud.

I don't make the laws, but I do have to follow them, and as regards firearms I try to stay on the side of compliance.

Like I have a choice, LOL!

Posted by: navybrat at June 29, 2012 10:48 AM (LRY2r)

410 And hurry before Cali decides it needs an Exit Tax...

Too late.  They already got one.

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 10:49 AM (25e/8)

411 Contempt?

What a Mickey Mouse charge.

Posted by: E. Holder at June 29, 2012 10:49 AM (SUKHu)

412

232
"Holder is shitting bricks at this point. "
Yeah, no.

Does Holder strike you as the kind of malignant narccissist who gives a shit what you think, the difference between right and wrong, and about the consequences of his actions?

Dude thinks he's bulletproof by virtue of his associations, his position, and (if all else fails) his race."

 

Holder feels safe because his best friend, you know the guy he cooked up  whole F&F/gun control plan and briefed early and often has a pocket full of Get of of Jail Free cards and Tony Resco only needs one of them.

 

Shouldn't a reporter interrupt Pres. Obama with the question--"Mr. President, will you commit right now to not give a bon voyage pardon to ______. (Tony Resco/Eric Holder/Tom Donilon) etc.  mix it up, have fun with it.  Get jiggy.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (VLifP)

413 Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 03:47 PM (SUKHu)

Southeast TX is a reasonable compromise.  Louisiana food, a Texas address, and Gulf Breezes. 

Posted by: no good deed at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (0lYad)

414 Does it get hot in Texas?

Yes.  I, personally, enjoy the heat (yes, really), but it does get very hot for about 4 - 6 months (depending on the year).  We'll probably be near or above 100 from now until mid-September.

That said, we spend most of the time in-doors during the day (when its hot) and the mid 70s to mid 80s we have after the sun goes down make it pleasant to hang out outside after dark.

Just don't forget your bug spray.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (8y9MW)

415
What will the GOP do if Holder ignores the charges?

a) Say that's enough, we had our say.
b) Press on.
c) Drop it and hope everyone like us forgets about it.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:50 AM (G/zuv)

416 I don't get this whitehouse, the local AG could easily softshoe the grandjury presentation and get it dismissed, why are they provoking a fight.

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:51 AM (WkuV6)

417 The last hand gun I bought,Walther PPK, had an empty casing in the box. Posted by: cicero skip at June 29, 2012 03:40 PM (3m9Uc) Back in the days when I had an FFL we sold military surplus weapons. We test fired each one prior to sale and gave the expended casing to the customer as evidence that the weapon's headspace was within tolerance and the casing had not overly "stretched". That's probably not an issue with new guns though...

Posted by: Nighthawk at June 29, 2012 10:51 AM (xgv+v)

418 OT: Katie Holmes files for divorce from Tom Cruise!

I wonder if the last straw was being forced to watch Rock of Ages, or contracting e-coli after giving him a beejer.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 29, 2012 10:51 AM (SY2Kh)

419 why are they provoking a fight.

Hubris

Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at June 29, 2012 10:52 AM (25e/8)

420
"Pull the funding for the DOJ."




The Republicans can't even manage to pull the funding for PBS.  Let's not get delusional.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 29, 2012 10:52 AM (kdS6q)

421 405 >>Does it get hot in Texas? Yes, so just come on over to Louisiana instead. Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 03:47 PM (SUKHu) Why do you want to make him suffer?

Posted by: cajun carrot at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (UZQM8)

422 The article linked to the WT at Drudge is full of shit. It says this on the 'contempt charge.

That’s why it’s been more than 75 years since either chamber has used the option though it used to be somewhat common.


Rita Lavel not only was found in contempt but she went to jail for 6 month (she was a Republican of course)


Harriet Myers was found in contempt as well.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (YdQQY)

423 Dude thinks he's bulletproof by virtue of his photos of Barry and Reggie Love out on fire island.

FIFY

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (tf9Ne)

424 How is Pearland, TX?? Nice area?

Posted by: dananjcon at June 29, 2012 10:53 AM (eavT+)

425

If THEY find cause exists they will issue a True Bill which then requires he be prosecuted.

 


 

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 03:47 PM (YdQQY)

 

 

But under the Modern interpretation of 'Prosecutorial Discretion', whereby the President, and DOJ get to decide which laws they will enforce?

 

Sort of like how the Guns got across the border in the first place.... they just decide not to enforce the Contempt Statute.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 29, 2012 10:54 AM (lZBBB)

426 or Aquilia?

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 10:54 AM (WkuV6)

427

Violence never solved anything.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at June 29, 2012 10:54 AM (qwK3S)

428 I could see a gun maker test firing a gun and sending the casing to the customers but nobody is crearting a "secret stash" of casings to match up for tracking purposes.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:54 AM (YdQQY)

429 So where's the asshole who thought the DOJ would prosecute Holder?

"‏@BreakingNews
US Justice Department says it won't prosecute Attorney General Eric Holder for contempt of Congress"

Posted by: Easy E. Holder [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 10:54 AM (famk3)

430 Where you headed? And hurry before Cali decides it needs an Exit Tax... Yeah, they’ve already started talking about it. I'm headed to the Round Rock area (though not in Round Rock itself).

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 29, 2012 10:55 AM (QF8uk)

431 Anyone have an explanation why Mr. Issa decided to release it on document dump and bury day.  Aren't they only out of town for a week?  He should have read it into the record yesterday.  That being said, I won't second guess him, he's doing a great job.  This sort of thing seems to go slowly but doing a thousand cuts all at once takes the fun out it.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at June 29, 2012 10:55 AM (VLifP)

432 These guys have really taken my eggs/omelet analogy to heart.

Posted by: Uncle Joe (no not that one the other one) at June 29, 2012 10:55 AM (jtTKf)

433

Holder is at Disneyworld ?

Is he fuckin' Goofy ?

Posted by: seamrog at June 29, 2012 10:55 AM (sidaN)

434 Its just possible that the Obama administration instead of trying to back door gun control was just so unbelievably, inexcusably stupid as to think this was an effective, proper way to track guns. That they'd just be rounded up in raids and drug busts, not at murder scenes and mass slaughters by drug gangs.
Which means instead of being evil, they're just inconceivably idiotic and naive to the point of being dangerous to all humanity.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2012 10:55 AM (r4wIV)

435

I thought this was a very well-designed experiment.  I'm thinking of having The Heir do it for his first science project.

 

QUESTION: What will drug cartels do with large amounts of semi automatic weapons?

 

HYPOTHESIS:  I predict they will use these weapons to murder large amounts of people.

 

TEST:  I gave ~2,000 AK-47s and sufficient quantities of compatible ammunition to several Mexican drug cartels and observed.

 

ANALYSIS:  I found 200 murdered Mexicans and one US Border Patrol agent with many of the weapons I gave the drug cartels recovered at the crime scenes. Testing confirmed the weapons were used in the murders.

 

CONCLUSION: Mexican drug cartels WILL, in fact, murder large amounts of people when given sufficient quantities of weapons. My hypothesis was confirmed.

 

NEXT YEAR'S PROJECT:  "Do Republicans Hate Science?"

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 29, 2012 10:56 AM (QSizi)

436 thread of new

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 10:56 AM (SUKHu)

437 In my Happy Place I see Holder getting snatched off the Dumbo ride at Disney World by a furious Issa.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 29, 2012 10:56 AM (UOM48)

438 Janet Reno was also found in contempt for failure to deliver documents.  However it never made it to the House for a vote because the documents were coughed up during the Clinton impeachment.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:57 AM (YdQQY)

439 Sigh ... never fails.

New Poat.

Posted by: Easy E. Holder [/i] [/b] at June 29, 2012 10:57 AM (famk3)

440 Pearland is nice, but anything near Houston is a thick, steamy patch of human misery- so, there's that.

Posted by: CPT San Antonio at June 29, 2012 10:57 AM (yn6XZ)

441
why is Obama and Holder making this more difficult?

You ever watch Stargate: Atlantis? The Wraith viewed humans as food and simple animals. The Democrats, especially this cabal in the White House, view the Republicans in the same way.

Obama and Holder have no respect for any Republican, They have no respect for the Constitution, the US flag, the US military, or the citizenry.

They will never cooperate or compromise with anyone because everyone else is inferior.

We are bugs to Obama and Holder. They would sooner squish us with their Florsheims than cooperate with us.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 10:57 AM (G/zuv)

442 Ah, Andy has saved us

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 10:57 AM (YdQQY)

443

Ahhh. All Issa has to do is invite Holder over before his Committee, suggesting they can work something out.

 

Then have the Capitol Police arrest him.

 

One way to do it...

Posted by: HH at June 29, 2012 10:58 AM (v+ExF)

444
And what I normally hear is based on casings you cannot say with certainty that it is the same gun you can only use it for elimination.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 29, 2012 03:43 PM (0q2P7)


The marks on the bottom of the shell casing can be matched to the breech face like fingerprints.

Posted by: Ed Anger Issues at June 29, 2012 10:58 AM (7+pP9)

445 Posted by: Marybeth at June 29, 2012 03:48 PM (fkaOH)

How about 30-40 U.S. Border Patrol agents?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 29, 2012 10:58 AM (nEUpB)

446 Another point, by putting this in the Congressional Record, I believe Issa makes it available for the civil suits filed by the families.

Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2012 11:00 AM (WkuV6)

447 http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/croley.aspx

University of Michigan law prof Steven Croley, officially anointed beneath-the-radar point man on gun control, now in office of White House counsel. Issa should be warming up the hot lights for him as we speak.

You won't get to the bottom of this until this man is, using the term advisedly, deposed.

One word: Saugatuck.

Posted by: comatus at June 29, 2012 11:01 AM (ZOlM3)

448 By refusing to assist. By not allowing its prisons to be used to house "criminals" who have not paid this tax. By forbidding, within its borders, any person from enforcing any part of the law.

Then, you just tell your residents, "Don't bother paying, we'll keep them from bothering you."

And, yes, that will force a Constitutional Showdown.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at June 29, 2012 03:47 PM (8y9MW)

 

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

Although, I do have a question.  One of the favorite ways that the fed has to "remind" a person that they haven't paid Uncle Sugar's fair share is slapping a lien on one's house.  How could any state preclude that?

Posted by: Soona at June 29, 2012 11:01 AM (EuBkc)

449 MSN.com saying "breaking news" that the Justice Department won't prosecute Holder for contempt.

Posted by: La Mauvaise New Yorkaise at June 29, 2012 11:01 AM (8uZ8A)

450 95 and 38% humidity right now.

What's not to love?

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 29, 2012 11:02 AM (SUKHu)

451
Again with the misrepresentation.

Eric Holder won't prosecute Eric Holder.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 29, 2012 11:02 AM (G/zuv)

452 OK, first of all. 2000 weapons aint shit in the grand scheme of things. If brian Terry was murdered by a gun bought through F&F or somewhere else he still would have been murdered. From what I understand, most cartel weapons come from Russia and China through Venezuela. That being said, what about the other two big issues. First, we have a lawless narc o-terror state on our border with no real border control. Two, Our Gov. tried to get propaganda by breaking the law so they could infringe on our second Amendment rights. Brian Terry did not Die because of F&F. Brian Terry died because we tolerate a narco state on our border. The lawless fucks in the whitehouse was our AR's and AK's and SAS's and Mini 14's and ETC ETC. That's what this is about. Let us not forget it. God Bless brian Terry, American Hero.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 11:06 AM (9TTOe)

453 Talk about missing the point 454. The problem isn't the amount of guns, the problem is that the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DELIBERATELY GAVE THESE WEAPONS TO BRUTAL MURDERERS AND ONE KILLED AN "AMERICAN HERO."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2012 11:09 AM (r4wIV)

454 455 Talk about missing the point 454. The problem isn't the amount of guns, the problem is that the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DELIBERATELY GAVE THESE WEAPONS TO BRUTAL MURDERERS AND ONE KILLED AN "AMERICAN HERO." Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2012 04:09 PM (r4wIV) They would have killed him anyway. Where the gun came from doesn't matter, There are probably a million guns floating around mexico. The Gun didn't killed Brian Terry, the Narco Terrorist Did. This is about going after our second amendment. You are not seeing the forest because of the trees. Brian Terry would have died anyway.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 11:13 AM (9TTOe)

455

"Brian Terry would have died anyway."

 

Got a God's Eye, do ya?

 

 

Posted by: HH at June 29, 2012 11:18 AM (v+ExF)

456

holder, in his bitchy response "Instead of helping LEOs deal w/this problem...." Oh like giving them something more powerful than a fucking bean-bag gun to go up against your full auto AKs..that HERE you need a class 3 license to own? And if you've had a parking ticket, no class 3 for you. Even if you get 1, the FBI can come into your house, anytime, unanounced and make sure it is in a safe.

But if your a cartel member, they hand them out like pizza coupons!

Posted by: hutch1200 at June 29, 2012 11:20 AM (QyKLb)

457 Got a God's Eye, do ya? Posted by: HH at June 29, 2012 04:18 PM (v+ExF) See that's what I don't get about this. 10's of thousands have died in mexico. Three hundred is a blip. Brian Terry's death was clearly an assasination. Do you thing not having the gun from F&F would have left the cartell without weapons? No, I don't have Gods Eye. I have common sense.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 11:21 AM (9TTOe)

458

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 04:21 PM (9TTOe)

 

Not that I disagree with your arguement. I just think you are better off saying 'If not him, then it would have been some other Border Agent'.

 

We all die. The .gov sending arms to those people doesn't help, no matter where they get their weapons originally.

Posted by: HH at June 29, 2012 11:25 AM (v+ExF)

459

That's why you stick w/ HUTCH-METH(tm) Cheaper and longer lasting. Made in a trailer park right here in the USA!

Ask the occupy crowd if they care about agents getting killed so they can get baked and rattle of their demands for a new Utopia.

Posted by: hutch1200 at June 29, 2012 11:25 AM (QyKLb)

460 Posted by: HH at June 29, 2012 04:25 PM (v+ExF) My point is this is bigger than F&F and far more sinister.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 11:27 AM (9TTOe)

461 First of all, it's not just one American. We know of Brian Terry and Jaime Zapata. There are probably others, we just don't know of it because of lack of tracing information. Everybody forgets Zapata for some reason. he was an ICE agent in Mexico and was killed with an FandF gun. Second of all, the DOJ deliberately gave weapons to narco-terrorists in a neighboring allied country with the express and *written* intent that they be used to murder. This is an act of war. I don't know why people *on the right* keep wanting to minimize this, if it were a Republican administration there would be rioting and government buildings on fire, and I don't know that I would be entirely unsympathetic. The right appears to have been "fixed" in the veterinarian sense. This is a Big Fucking Deal.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 11:28 AM (bxiXv)

462 Sorry, checked, Zapata was working for Homeland Security at the time of the killing. Fact-checking... how do it work?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 29, 2012 11:29 AM (bxiXv)

463 409 Doesn't it fall to the US Attorney for DC to empanel a grand jury? Is that the DoJ? If so, and the USA for DC won't empanel the grand jury, then what recourse does the House have? Could they have the Sergeant at Arms arrest him?

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at June 29, 2012 03:48 PM (RD7QR)


OMG! Can you imagine the play that the CBC/Jackson/Sharpton would get out of Holder in leg irons? 

Posted by: Flounder at June 29, 2012 11:31 AM (Kkt/i)

464 OMG! Can you imagine the play that the CBC/Jackson/Sharpton would get out of Holder in leg irons? Posted by: Flounder at June 29, 2012 04:31 PM (Kkt/i) If it were up to me the CBC, Jackson and Sharpton would be in leg irons.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Team Dagny at June 29, 2012 11:33 AM (9TTOe)

465 429
Violence never solved anything.
************

I agree entirely.

Posted by: Zombie Adolf Hitler at June 29, 2012 11:34 AM (pJbuO)

466
430 I could see a gun maker test firing a gun and sending the casing to the customers but nobody is crearting a "secret stash" of casings to match up for tracking purposes.

Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2012 03:54 PM (YdQQY)


For several years California required a firearms manufacturers to send the state six spent shell casings and the serial number from each handgun shipped to CA for sale.

They solved one crime using that database. It involved a brand new stolen pistol.

Like tires and sneakers, wear marks produce identifiable features. I doubt the match could have made after a few thousand rounds and many cleanings.

California eventually ended the requirement IIRC

Posted by: Ed Anger Issues at June 29, 2012 11:35 AM (7+pP9)

467

Gawd, I had forgotten about that whole bean-bag thing,

 

Jesus H...

 

What are our people thinking???

 

nevermind...

 

Posted by: HH at June 29, 2012 11:37 AM (v+ExF)

468 Knowing that the F&F guns ended up at crime scenes is one thing, but you can't use that information to prosecute anybody (in relation to the gun selling) unless you know (and have the evidence to prove) how the guns got to the crime scene.  That's why this operation wasn't a legitimate sting.  We also know from the whistleblowers that agents were actively prevented from tracking the guns after they left the sellers' hands.  The only thing the DOJ wanted was for U.S. guns to show up at Mexican crime scenes so they could use that fact as propaganda in their effort to enact more restrictive gun laws in the U.S.  No other reason makes sense, and no other credible explanation has ever been offered.  They didn't care how many people were killed by these guns, on either side of the border -- so long as they didn't get blamed.

Posted by: Bystander at June 29, 2012 11:45 AM (/sohm)

469 Now this is what I call a DEATH PANEL.... Just wait until ObamaCare kicks in.

Posted by: izoneguy at June 29, 2012 11:55 AM (hbRed)

470
"...who commits a crime and then drops the gun at the scene?..."

Well, anyone with a brain.
Assuming you wore gloves when handling and loading the gun, dropping it is smart because you can't be caught with it later. Remember, it's stolen, cannot be traced back to you.

Posted by: Knows_Death at June 29, 2012 12:09 PM (7h71Q)

471 On the leaving guns at crime scenes, apparently this is a known signature and method of the drug cartels in Mexico.

Posted by: BradC at June 29, 2012 12:45 PM (HZrYb)

472

From the original whistleblower Dodson (at my link): "The idea was to see where the guns ended up."

That IMPLIES finding them at crime scenes. How else do you find where they end up? Our way of finding where guns "end up" was always the trace data from guns found at crime scenes, so I think the "finding them at crime scenes" part was at least implicit going back at least to March of last year.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at June 29, 2012 01:51 PM (kTTUz)

473 "The tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes," - So can we stop calling this a "botched" program?! For Christ sakes, seems like it worked exactly according to plan!

Posted by: JA at June 29, 2012 02:11 PM (QnZBg)

474 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 29, 2012 02:44 PM (Xb3hu)

475 321 It's not gunwalker, it was linebacker during Bush admin. Linebacker (and Linebacker 2) were US bombing campaigns in North Vietnam in 1972. As a veteran of both, I hope the names haven't been recycled for other purposes and I don't see any evidence on the Web that they have been.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at June 29, 2012 03:12 PM (2VCZA)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
325kb generated in CPU 0.47, elapsed 1.9268 seconds.
62 queries taking 1.5562 seconds, 711 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.