April 28, 2014

Is "Civil Religion" Harmful to the Actual Church?
— Ace

As you may know, Sarah Palin made a joke -- stating that if she were president, terrorists would receive waterboarding as their "baptism" -- and that's caused, as usual, all manner of commotions and consternations on the right.

I'm still thinking about my own feelings about this, but in casting about for reactions, I found Mollie Hemingway making an interesting, larger point about what she calls "civil religion," which I think she's saying isn't real religion, but a religiously-themed mode of expression in political/public settings.

This is a perfect example not just of civil religion but also how civil religion harms the church. Civil religion is that folk religion that serves to further advance the cause of the state. Civil religion can include invocations of a generic God at inaugurations and other key events (lately these invocations also acknowledge, showing the power of civil religion, the absence of trust in God as well), oblique or overt religious references by political leaders, exaggerated stories about great leaders, interfaith worship events at times of national crisis (e.g., when Oprah Winfrey led a massive interfaith worship service at Yankee Stadium in the aftermath of 9/11), and so on and so forth.

Civil religion can be a unifying force for political power but it manages to unify, typically, at the expense of orthodox belief.

I don't know what I think about that -- this is the first time I've seen this argument (that I can remember, anyway) -- but it seems like an interesting idea to explore.

Posted by: Ace at 11:52 AM | Comments (351)
Post contains 269 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Second look at the Goddess of Reason?

Posted by: Georges Danton at April 28, 2014 11:54 AM (8ZskC)

2 no

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 28, 2014 11:54 AM (u8GsB)

3 Protestant Christianity created a completely separate moral organization outside of the control of government.

This is part of the reason of the amazing success of the European, and later other, states that embraced it.

It is also why the left now wants to kill it and replace it with something more amenable to their long term goals.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 28, 2014 11:56 AM (78TbK)

4 @1: Nah. Reason can be used to justify anything, and I do mean anything. Not interested. Give me some actual morality any day.

Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 11:56 AM (4cRuH)

5 I've struggled with this concept for a while now. I was calling it Fuzzy Christian Everything.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 11:56 AM (gYp5/)

6 Posted by: 18-1 at April 28, 2014 04:56 PM (78TbK) The Left believes in the old Fascist/Communist model of trying to kill off everything that doesn't come directly from the Almighty State like manna from heaven. The Almighty State is a jealous god and doesn't like the competition.

Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 11:57 AM (4cRuH)

7 The Founding Fathers seemed to invoke (a) civil religion, but they'd be the last people I'd envision doing so for the advancement of the state. I think it was driven by a desire to tap into the religiosity of most Americans at the time, while not echoing too closely the dogma of one particular faith/sect/faction.

Posted by: logprof at April 28, 2014 11:57 AM (GW/jL)

8 Could be worse. Never forget, it could be worse.

Posted by: Killerdog at April 28, 2014 11:58 AM (Zdgjo)

9 Little help here, Ace?  Nexus between Sarahcuda's joke and the civil religion discussion.  Is it the word "baptism"? 

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 28, 2014 11:58 AM (JtwS4)

10

Never heard it called 'Civil Religion' before.

 

I think she's referring to a non-denominational expression of faith?

Which is not really a 'religion'.

Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 11:58 AM (la7X9)

11 Mollie Hemingway also said this: "..waterboarding is the opposite of traditional Christian baptism." Isn't that the premise of Palin's joke? Why is she taking it so seriously?

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 11:59 AM (A98Xu)

12 I meant to finish that comment. I think it can be dangerous, or more precisely that people who get stuck in it may be in trouble. I don't know if people who are less serious about religion are just more prone to it, or if the trend is itself dangerous. But I think it's a problem.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:00 PM (gYp5/)

13 Matt Walsh has a great take on the politically correct religious speak we have these days. Paraphrasing: "These politically correct "Christians" could watch Jesus overturn the tables in the temple and then explain to Jesus why Jesus would never do that thing that Jesus just did."

Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 12:01 PM (hFL/3)

14 >>>Protestant Christianity created a completely separate moral organization outside of the control of government. ??? There is no historical basis for this. In fact the historicity here is pretty much backwards. Many nations embraced Protestantism precisely because it could be controlled by and made a more convenient partner to Government.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Posting From Chrome at April 28, 2014 12:01 PM (0q2P7)

15 How about dunking them in a dirty mikvah?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:01 PM (CMkNk)

16 Little help here, Ace? Nexus between Sarahcuda's joke and the civil religion discussion. Is it the word "baptism"?
___
Wait till we introduce those white bitter clingers to the Quietus!

Posted by: Some Despot at April 28, 2014 12:02 PM (78TbK)

17

Everyone is so serious these days.

 

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 28, 2014 12:02 PM (W6iIX)

18 "Civil Religion," hmm? Well, we had a different name for it. But the idea worked out very well...for us, at the top.

Posted by: Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, et al. at April 28, 2014 12:03 PM (AiYlm)

19 Of course this is true. The core doctrine of Christianity is exclusionary in a binary fashion, ie: you've either confessed with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believed in your heart the God raised Him from the dead, or you haven't. (Although, of course, the opportunity to do this isn't exclusionary). This is, of course, exponentially a better societal foundation than state atheism (see: 20th century) or Muslim theocracy. I think her point is valid (and almost painfully obvious to practicing Christians).

Posted by: Doctor Cynic at April 28, 2014 12:03 PM (B2fm1)

20 Breaking! Known Republican private citizen makes joke, outrage nation outrageously recoils in outrage. More outrage at 11.

Posted by: The MFM at April 28, 2014 12:03 PM (zcSad)

21 What I think is the main thing destroying religion these days is what I've heard referred to as the Gospel of Wealth, or namely, the notion that if you go to Church, pray, and tithe, God will take care of your material needs. It was pushed by a lot of the churches I've attended, and it's why I stopped attending anything altogether.

Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 12:03 PM (4cRuH)

22 There is no historical basis for this
***
Who controlled Hus? Certainly not "his" Emperor...

Posted by: 18-1 at April 28, 2014 12:04 PM (78TbK)

23 "These politically correct "Christians" could watch Jesus overturn the tables in the temple and then explain to Jesus why Jesus would never do that thing that Jesus just did."

Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 05:01 PM (hFL/3)

 

not to early for a thread winner

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 28, 2014 12:04 PM (W6iIX)

24 Civil religion is called communism or despotism.

One does not express piety in a "civil" manner unless they are a tyrant or a tyrants acolyte.

"Civil Religion" is a complete corruption and misuse of the word "religion".

Posted by: Marcus T. at April 28, 2014 12:04 PM (rqscp)

25 'Civil' religion seems to be reluctant to admit to absolute truths...which by definition separates it from true religion.

Posted by: Bible Thumper at April 28, 2014 12:04 PM (8D/Ai)

26

Oh, ok, I read the actual linked article.  Hemingway is taking this baptism bit way too seriously. 

 

It was a joke.  It was a big hunk of red meat for a red meat crowd.  But Molly has to get her God on because Sarah used the word baptism and baptism is a sacred covenant with...

 

Words have religious and secular meanings.  Molly is appropriating high ground the same way leftists do.  "Oh, your casual use of this term in a way other than I perceive it is microaggression". 

 

Man up, Molly.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 28, 2014 12:05 PM (JtwS4)

27

I've always thought this the case with patriotism generally and overly lauding our military specifically. I still don't like it when we say that anyone in the military is a hero. Really? That person who barely shows up to work on time and reeking of booze and then gun-decks their maintenance record is your hero? Or the human resources colonel (lacking a better term) who rode that desk in the air conditioned green zone and came out the other side with a bronze star, is your hero? And I definitely think that for many their country (again my example is armed forces members) is their religion. It is so easily turned on its head. Are you willing to shoot a rancher because his cattle are on federal land and you are just following your country's orders?

I wrestled with this philosophy as a youngster and found it vacuous and exploitative to those who are good people. I think it is too easily used to serve the state.

Posted by: Chris M at April 28, 2014 12:05 PM (nyxv/)

28 21 Yes, Joel Osteen-type stuff. Fuzzy.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:05 PM (gYp5/)

29 >>>Little help here, Ace? Nexus between Sarahcuda's joke and the civil religion discussion. Is it the word "baptism"? not really sure; I guess that's the connection.

Posted by: ace at April 28, 2014 12:05 PM (/FnUH)

30 Is "Civil Religion" Harmful to the Actual Church? In a word, yes. Yes.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:05 PM (oMKp3)

31 I've always had mixed feelings about Mrs. Palin...but I absolutely admire her flawless ability to get inside the heads of the prog-fascist left and make 'em sputter and fume and poop themselves.

Posted by: Stu-22 at April 28, 2014 12:06 PM (AiYlm)

32 type, delete, type. delete. Ok, of course civil religion hurts the church and its believers.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:06 PM (HVff2)

33 Speaking of civil religion, Melissa Harris-Perry and Feministed friend have some thoughts: "On the Sunday, April 27, Melissa Harris-Perry show, during a discussion of new laws restricting abortion in Mississippi and Texas, guest Chloe Angyal of Feministing.com ridiculously saw “white supremacy” in Republican state legislators who had worked to reduce abortion, and asserted that these GOPers should be “ashamed of themselves.” Marcus Mabry of The New York Times stated the legal question was “at what point will the Supreme Court say the state impediments to a woman’s ability to get an abortion actually represent illegal actions?” [...] Angyal fretted: “What’s happening in Texas and in Mississippi is, I think, a crystal clear and really painful demonstration of the American reality which is that racism and sexism often go hand in hand. Whenever you see racism, if you take a second look, you’ll find sexism there. And whenever you see sexism, you take a second look and you’ll also find white supremacy and racism. And that is exactly what is happening here.” - No, stupid. If we were interested in getting rid of blacks, we would support abortion.

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:06 PM (XUKZU)

34 You know my religion.

Posted by: Fr. Al Gore at April 28, 2014 12:06 PM (thLL8)

35

 

dude

Brikell is a full head taller than Simon

 

RE: Paul Simon, 72, and Edi Brickell, 48, ....

 

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 28, 2014 12:06 PM (W6iIX)

36 To finish my unfinished thought in 19: all this "interfaith" nonsense and the "civil religion" that has by and large taken the place of sincere expressions of faith by public leaders is mostly political posturing by people who don't actually believe any of it.

Posted by: Doctor Cynic at April 28, 2014 12:06 PM (qBtUE)

37 31 I've always had mixed feelings about Mrs. Palin...but I absolutely admire her flawless ability to get inside the heads of the prog-fascist left and make 'em sputter and fume and poop themselves. Posted by: Stu-22 at April 28, 2014 05:06 PM (AiYlm) Reagan had that same ability, and we sorely need it in our next generation of leadership.

Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 12:07 PM (4cRuH)

38 Intra faith, OK. Interfaith, Spawn of Satan.

Posted by: In Christ Alone at April 28, 2014 12:07 PM (nbGZj)

39 27 That, too. Fuzzy Flag-Waving, when substituted for real patriotism, is another problem.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:07 PM (gYp5/)

40 No, stupid. If we were interested in getting rid of blacks, we would support abortion.
___
I would like to subscribe to your news letter.

Posted by: Ruth Bader Ginsburg at April 28, 2014 12:07 PM (78TbK)

41 Seems to me the National Underpants have really ridden up into a nasty place.

Posted by: --- at April 28, 2014 12:07 PM (MMC8r)

42 "Civil Religion" Never heard that term before. Is it me or is this something new-ish?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 28, 2014 12:08 PM (gOoFi)

43 No, stupid. If we were interested in getting rid of blacks, we would support abortion. Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 05:06 PM (XUKZU) Yup, abortion clinics would be as common as McDonalds.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:08 PM (HVff2)

44 I absolutely admire her flawless ability to get inside the heads of the prog-fascist left and make 'em sputter and fume and poop themselves. It's the only thing I got lately.

Posted by: Behind Enemy Lines at April 28, 2014 12:08 PM (thLL8)

45 Hey ace, Ben Wiker wrote a book about this: "worshipping the state." Read it, it explains how we got here. But the short answer is Civil religion is a means of control.

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 12:08 PM (a8eFL)

46 Breaking! Known Republican private citizen makes joke, outrage nation outrageously recoils in outrage. More outrage at 11. - Let's try to schedule to minutes of hate. How does Thursday work for you?

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:09 PM (XUKZU)

47 Civil religion can be a unifying force for political power but it manages to unify, typically, at the expense of orthodox belief. St. Peter, Bishop of Rome, begs to differ.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 12:10 PM (yz6yg)

48 Ben Wiker wrote a book about this: "worshipping the state."
___
l'état, c'est moi

Posted by: Barack Obama at April 28, 2014 12:10 PM (78TbK)

49 It was a joke and Molly Hemingway is a twat.

Posted by: Commissar Pug at April 28, 2014 12:11 PM (8c12T)

50 I think the reason "civil religion" hurts actual churches is similar to the reason Saints help it and characters like Pelosi damage it. With a "civil religion," you see people take up the mantle of faith and use it to their own ends. They corrupt religion and devalue the lexicon. For current believers, it is painful for scandal to be brought within their house. For non-believers, it paints a muddled and unflattering image of the church.

Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 12:11 PM (eFytx)

51 Meh, meaningless goofy statement by Palin, but yeah: the more official a religion becomes the less it is faith and the more it just becomes government. Christianity suffered from being in charge, all religions do. It corrupts their purpose and spiritual intent, but Christianity more so because it is meant to be focused on the glory of God, not the works of man.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2014 12:11 PM (zfY+H)

52 "Is "Civil Religion" Harmful to the Actual Church?" In that the end point of "civil religion" is to shift faith away from trust in Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and towards "social justice" and other things focusing trust and faith on merely human institutions, yes. Yes, it is and has been harmful.

Posted by: Stu-22 at April 28, 2014 12:11 PM (AiYlm)

53 Civil religion, you mean like Freemasonry?

Posted by: In Christ Alone at April 28, 2014 12:12 PM (nbGZj)

54 I guess she put it into words, the goo-goo based civic religious acts that some politicians get engaged in. It's like seculars trying to talk about Christmas...they'll talk about anything but the actual reason for the season (Christmas is about snow, don't you know?). Of course, like everything else in today's world, it's all because of the surrender of our supposed leaders who we entrusted with our culture.

Posted by: joeindc44 at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (FQLT3)

55 Its only very recently that open statements of assumed Christianity are even considered noteworthy, let alone shocking. Bill Clinton used to constantly go on about faith and God.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (zfY+H)

56 Isn't that the premise of Palin's joke? Why is she taking it so seriously? Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 04:59 PM (A98Xu) Because Palin hasn't shriveled up and died politically speaking. Palin and her traditional Americanism and jokes for some reason scares the holy hell out people who are perfectly happy to indulge the manifest silliness and fecklessness of King Putt. But, hey...Don't forget- Vote Rand Paul! All the Courage of John Boehner All the Common Sense Sanity of Ron Paul It's a two fee.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (0cMkb)

57 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Posting From Chrome at April 28, 2014 05:01 PM (0q2P7) Again Wiker book. It describes how early (4th century or so) Catholicism established this distinction and how it was later harmed by the likes of Spinoza and Machiavelli.

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (a8eFL)

58 The Church is simply the people who follow Christ. Not fans, but followers. Civil religion is made up of fans. They kind of like the idea of God, maybe. They think nice thoughts about Jesus. Its nice to think about God at your inauguration, or your graduation, or when there's a war and you want him on your side. Those are fans. Civil religion is for fans. Christianity is for followers. Jesus Christ says "follow me."

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (oMKp3)

59 What is this Civil Religion that you talk about???

Posted by: Islam at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (W6iIX)

60 I think Civil Religion is a really bad name for the concept Mollie Hemingway is trying to describe.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:13 PM (gYp5/)

61 Fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at April 28, 2014 12:14 PM (eAJwE)

62 Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 05:03 PM (4cRuH) You are welcome at my church. My preacher preaches of wealth in the afterlife.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 12:14 PM (/djtm)

63 61 Fuck the GOP That seems to be the theme for the month of April 2014.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:14 PM (HVff2)

64 41 Seems to me the National Underpants have really ridden up into a nasty place. Posted by: --- at April 28, 2014 05:07 PM (MMC8r) Atomic Wedgie, given by the leftists.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:14 PM (CMkNk)

65 Really no one here is going to admit that it was a bad and harmful  joke.   That  it  undermined the Right's position that waterboarding was a serious matter used only in the most extreme cases of imminent threats.   

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:15 PM (m2CN7)

66 What is this obsession with Mollie Hemmingway? For the past two months it's been Mollie says this and Mollie says that. Are you mind-banging this broad, or something.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:15 PM (j4y5j)

67 63 61 Fuck the GOP That seems to be the theme for the month of April 2014. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 05:14 PM (HVff2) It's been my theme since about 2007.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:15 PM (CMkNk)

68 15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. 16 And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone's opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances. 17 Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” 18 But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19 Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. 20 And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” 22 When they heard it, they marveled. And they left him and went away. [Matthew 22]

Posted by: Stuff Jesus Said at April 28, 2014 12:15 PM (AiYlm)

69 62 Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 05:03 PM (4cRuH) You are welcome at my church. My preacher preaches of wealth in the afterlife. Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 05:14 PM (/djtm Man, gain, soul.......Gotcha Golfman

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:15 PM (HVff2)

70 3 Protestant Christianity created a completely separate moral organization outside of the control of government. This is part of the reason of the amazing success of the European, and later other, states that embraced it. It is also why the left now wants to kill it and replace it with something more amenable to their long term goals. Posted by: 18-1 at April 28, 2014 04:56 PM (78TbK) I've been looking for an opportunity to post this: "One of the most enlightening books I have ever come across was The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success by Rodney Stark. And at the very end of this book there is a quote from a Chinese scholar who had been part of an investigation into the causes of Western economic success. This is a direct quote of what this Chinese scholar had said:" One of the things we were asked to look at was the success, in fact, the pre-eminence of the West, all over the world. We studied everything we could from the historical, political, economic and cultural perspective. At first, we thought it was because you had more powerful guns than we had. Then we thought it was because you had the best political system. Next we focused on your economic system. But in the past twenty years we have realised that the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity. That is why the West is so powerful. The Christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made possible the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics. We don’t have any doubt about this." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3147298/posts

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:16 PM (bb5+k)

71 I am really tired of the fake outrage from both sides

Posted by: The Jackhole at April 28, 2014 12:16 PM (nTgAI)

72 35 dude Brikell is a full head taller than Simon RE: Paul Simon, 72, and Edi Brickell, 48, .... --- I think Verne Troyer is probably taller than Paul Simon.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 28, 2014 12:16 PM (APuJ7)

73 You are welcome at my church. My preacher preaches of wealth in the afterlife. Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 05:14 PM (/djtm) Haven't tried any churches since I moved to TX, but the ones in FL were quite rotten. I'll get around to it once I can get transferred to a position that gives me Sundays off.

Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 12:16 PM (4cRuH)

74 And "civil" is becoming like "justice". When I hear either term, my mind just shuts down.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 12:17 PM (/djtm)

75 Is Mollie Hemingway the new S.E. Cupp? (btw, was SE Cupp the new A.B. Stoddard?)

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:17 PM (j4y5j)

76 65 Really no one here is going to admit that it was a bad and harmful joke. That it undermined the Right's position that waterboarding was a serious matter used only in the most extreme cases of imminent threats. Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 05:15 PM (m2CN7) What? You really think that people are caring about this that much and in that way?

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 12:17 PM (A98Xu)

77 I saw Civil Religion open for Black Sabbath at Armadillo World Headquarters in 1972.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2014 12:17 PM (0cMkb)

78 Those are fans. Civil Religion is for fans. Christianity is for followers. ---- That's a really good way to put it. I also think it kind of gets to what bothered me about Palin's joke---baptism is treated like a pop culture reference. It's one of those referential jokes where half the laughter is just out of "hey I know that one!"

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:18 PM (gYp5/)

79 75 Is Mollie Hemingway the new S.E. Cupp? (btw, was SE Cupp the new A.B. Stoddard?) Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 05:17 PM (j4y5j) Chris Hayes is the new Helen Thomas.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:18 PM (CMkNk)

80 It's been my theme since about 2007. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 05:15 PM (CMkNk) It comes, it goes, it comes back......right now its back again.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:18 PM (HVff2)

81 Beck was right about "social justice" churches being a big cover for socialism. He was crucified (gasp! appropriating religious language) for saying it, but he was 100% right.

Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 12:18 PM (hFL/3)

82

65 -

 

I wish people would  make up their minds.  Is Sarah Palin a private citizen with nothing to tell us about anything, or is she the voice of the right, and every utterance from her MUST   cause   all sorts  of hand-wringing regarding its meaning?

Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2014 12:19 PM (TOk1P)

83 Chris Hayes is the new Helen Thomas.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 05:18 PM (CMkNk)

 

Barak Obama is the new Jimmy Carter

Posted by: Islam at April 28, 2014 12:19 PM (W6iIX)

84 What I think is the main thing destroying religion Protestant Christianity these days is what I've heard referred to as the Gospel of Wealth, or namely, the notion that if you go to Church, pray, and tithe, God will take care of your material needs. Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 05:03 PM (4cRuH) FIFY

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 12:19 PM (yz6yg)

85 btw, was SE Cupp the new A.B. Stoddard?) Has SE aged? Last time I saw A.B. she looked haggard.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:19 PM (HVff2)

86 I have slowly, over the course of the last decade, come to the conclusion that Western ideas about freedom and the rights of man, are byproducts of Christian culture, as is the success this nation has experienced for most of it's existence. I have developed the opinion that Christian principles represent an objective standard of morality that produces defacto pragmatic benefits and secular measures of success in economics and social well being. And i'm an agnostic.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:19 PM (bb5+k)

87 Marx is a jealous god.

Posted by: toby928 strokes his gun dick at April 28, 2014 12:19 PM (QupBk)

88 Candy Crowley is the new Roseanne Barr?

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:20 PM (j4y5j)

89 81 Beck was right about "social justice" churches being a big cover for socialism. He was crucified (gasp! appropriating religious language) for saying it, but he was 100% right. Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 05:18 PM (hFL/3) The so-called Nation of Islam, black liberation theology, et al are all out there in the open. You're right about Beck. He and others are blasted just for pointing it out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:20 PM (CMkNk)

90 Beck was right about "social justice" churches being a big cover for socialism. He was crucified (gasp! appropriating religious language) for saying it, but he was 100% right. This.

Posted by: Behind Enemy Lines at April 28, 2014 12:20 PM (thLL8)

91 Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 05:16 PM (bb5+k) This idea has resurfaced a few times in different fields of study. Judeo-Christian thought has been the only belief system that teaches the combination that God created the world and its people, and both are considered good but fallen. As such, the world is on the same level as its people, much closer to St. Francis' Brother Sun, Sister Moon than the old and neo-pagan Mother Gaia. This distinction allowed the world to be studied, and since it was created, to be assumed to be ordered. There's a reason the scientific method and genetics were born within Christendom.

Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 12:20 PM (eFytx)

92 What? You really think that people are caring about this that much and in that way?

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 05:17 PM (A98Xu)

 

Not on  this site but in general yes.  

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (m2CN7)

93 87 Marx is a jealous god. Posted by: toby928© strokes his gun dick at April 28, 2014 05:19 PM (QupBk) Mr. Driftwood? Mr. Driftwood? Paging Mr. Driftwood?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (CMkNk)

94 When I saw the Palin joke, I know the left would go nuts. It didn't occur to me that the right would get all twisted up over it.

I suppose, though, that it could be predicted. Ann Coulter got fired from National Review after making her statement about Muslims (invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity). Since we did the first 2 things, with NR's approval, then it has to be just that last one that offended. Of course, Coulter was not kidding, not even a little.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (IN7k+)

95 "Civil Religion" is that form of public expression which every Empire known to man has taken up and used as a tool, for it's own purposes. This was the religion of the Caesars, which proclaimed the Emperor to be "Divo" ie, divine and thus force all Good Citizens to pay homage to his Divinity. (sound familiar?) The ancient Egyptians did the same with the Pharaohs, as did the Babylonians, even the Imperial Chinese did this with Confucianism. It's not religion at all, it's a tool of control over the masses, and thus should be a thing despised and fought against by any lover of Freedom. Jesus himself was crucified because he defied the "Civil Religion" of his day. He knew how to really piss off those were in control of things, too. "Civil Religion" is one of those verbal constructs like "Social Justice" - a representation of a thing that is a pernicious, evil Lie through and through.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (8Fa5Z)

96 People are reading waaay too much into Palin's "Waterboarding how we baptize terrorists" comment. Yes, "baptize" is closely associated with Christianity. Yet, the word does have other meanings:

"a :  to purify or cleanse spiritually especially by a purging experience or ordeal b : initiate"

http://tinyurl.com/kxo6qyl

Similarly, "baptism" is not relegated specifically to religion:

"an act, experience, or ordeal by which one is purified, sanctified, initiated, or named"

http://tinyurl.com/6mrqzx7

Palin's use of the "baptize" - in the absence of any other references to religion - seems to speak to "initation" or "purification" and is fully within a secular meaning.  The hubbub over her comments seems overblown and to be the product of the grievance mindset, IMO. People are just looking for reasons to be offended, and even folks on the right are turning into cannibals.


Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (roO4n)

97 BREAKING: A political has-been recently told a dumb, controversial joke in a desperate bid for relevancy.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (SY2Kh)

98 It was just a joke, FFS. Mollie Hemingway needs to unbunch her panties.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (mx5oN)

99 I don't get humanity anymore. Oregon uses dead humans for fuel and we're in a lather about a half-term governor saying she'd waterboard people as baptism.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (BqGMB)

100 The so-called Nation of Islam, black liberation theology, et al are all out there in the open. You're right about Beck. He and others are blasted just for pointing it out. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 05:20 PM (CMkNk) That's one thing I always admired about Beck. He's not afraid to point out the uncomfortable realities that most people would rather not talk about. "Don't be afraid to see what you see." -Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (4cRuH)

101 Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 05:20 PM (eFytx Racis, H8r.........Co-Exist //sarc

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:21 PM (HVff2)

102 I wish people would make up their minds. Is Sarah Palin a private citizen with nothing to tell us about anything, or is she the voice of the right, and every utterance from her MUST cause all sorts of hand-wringing regarding its meaning?

Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2014 05:19 PM (TOk1P)

 

I think its Palin who has to make up her mind. 

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:22 PM (m2CN7)

103 65 Really no one here is going to admit that it was a bad and harmful joke. That it undermined the Right's position that waterboarding was a serious matter used only in the most extreme cases of imminent threats. Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 05:15 PM (m2CN7) I thought it was detrimental to the cause. Not everyone is a Christian, and not everyone regards "Baptism" as a desirable thing. It plays into the meme that the "Christian right" wants to impose religion on everybody, so yeah, I didn't think her choice of words was particularly helpful. In fact, I regarded them as wince inducing.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:22 PM (bb5+k)

104 Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 05:19 PM (bb5+k) Agreed. Whether you are a believer or not, adhering to the commandments isn't a bad way to go through life. BTW I'm down to one and half unbroken.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 12:23 PM (/djtm)

105 We promise to stand united against Sarah Palin's blasphemy. All Good Christians must unite with MSNBC in this time of need when Jesus-hating Sarah Palin besmirches the Faith!

Posted by: MSNBC at April 28, 2014 12:23 PM (ZPrif)

106 So, John Wayne in the move The Train Robbers was invoking civil religion when he said: If anyone tries to cross that river before we're out of sight - baptize 'em. Here's the trailer: http://youtu.be/fkdxczKuT5w

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at April 28, 2014 12:23 PM (1hM1d)

107 65 Really no one here is going to admit that it was a bad and harmful joke. That it undermined the Right's position that waterboarding was a serious matter used only in the most extreme cases of imminent threats. Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 05:15 PM (m2CN7) Lighten up, Francis.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2014 12:23 PM (mx5oN)

108

102 -

 

Why?

 

Other than giving people  like  you a  case  of the vapors, what harm is she doing? 

Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2014 12:23 PM (TOk1P)

109 94 Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (IN7k+) The "right" is all freaked out because of PC fear. The statists have got us so fucking hemmed in with it it prevents us from just talking plainly. What Palin said in the cold light of day is so utterly inoffensive, and because it might drive the Muzzies crazy everyone pounces. If it did drive the Muzzies nuts, like using the word "crusade" for instance, GOOD. To hell with them and to hell with those who are destroying my country and my culture. UNAFRAID.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:24 PM (CMkNk)

110 We also heard she took the Lord's name in vain once. Tell all your Christian friends what an enemy of Jesus Sarah Palin is. How dare she?!!?

Posted by: MSNBC at April 28, 2014 12:24 PM (ZPrif)

111 94 When I saw the Palin joke, I know the left would go nuts. It didn't occur to me that the right would get all twisted up over it. Yes, many of the same people who said...nothing...about balers and photographers being forced to violate their religious beliefs are upset about a theoretical American theocracy. I'd worry about this around the time I worry about Hitler clones.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:24 PM (BqGMB)

112 "It plays into the meme that the "Christian right" wants to impose religion on everybody, " Do you deny that it would be far better for everyone on the planet if every Muslim, especially of the Jihadi variety, converted to Christianity?

Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 12:24 PM (hFL/3)

113 I don't get humanity anymore. Oregon uses dead humans for fuel and we're in a lather about a half-term governor saying she'd waterboard people as baptism. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (BqGMB) I think she was trying to appropriate some Crusader religious imagery in that quote. Personally, I don't care how often Islam is offended. It's problem is that throughout its history it hasn't been offended enough to mature as a faith.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 12:24 PM (yz6yg)

114 Mollie Ziegler Hemingway? As in Zig Ziegler?

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:24 PM (j4y5j)

115 Cato The so-called prosperity gospel is no gospel at all, and hardcore evangelicals like myself regard it for what it is: heresy. If a doctrine does not apply equally to the Christians in Ethiopia as it does to Christians in Lake Forest, Illinois, then It is heresy. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing, because they seek to harm the flock. Have nothing to do with them.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:25 PM (oMKp3)

116 Do you want Pie in the Sky by and by? Or do you wants your's right now- With Whipped Cream on Top!

Posted by: naturalfake's Church of Civil Religion at April 28, 2014 12:25 PM (0cMkb)

117 85 btw, was SE Cupp the new A.B. Stoddard?)

Has SE aged? Last time I saw A.B. she looked haggard. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian


It was the lighting, I tells ya.  AB is always fetching, including that little goldfish mouth thing she does when someone else is talking.

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (4nR9/)

118 Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (roO4n) From the Greek: to submerse

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (/djtm)

119 97 BREAKING: A political has-been recently told a dumb, controversial joke in a desperate bid for relevancy. Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (SY2Kh) You take the most flak when you're over the target. It wasn't that controversial. And in any case, if she were irrelevant, why pay attention to her… as you are doing?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (CMkNk)

120 Our interfaith panel of Al Sharpton, Father Pfleger and Rev. Wright all agree that Sarah Palin is no friend of Jesus at all!!! Even Pope Oprah says this is just unChristian and UnAmerican. Shame on you, Sarah Palin!

Posted by: MSNBC at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (ZPrif)

121 When trying to understand things, it is easier to do so if one understands the order of things. So, the Small Roman State, the Large Roman State, Christianization, the Establishment of the Christian Roman State, the Collapse of the Latin Christian Roman State and the Establishment of the Catholic Order, Opposition to the Established Catholic Order, the Collapse of the Catholic Order, everything else.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (9W+0f)

122 112 "It plays into the meme that the "Christian right" wants to impose religion on everybody, " Do you deny that it would be far better for everyone on the planet if every Muslim, especially of the Jihadi variety, converted to Christianity? Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 05:24 PM (hFL/3) Instead of death by beheading, death by hot dish/casserole at the potluck dinners. I could handle that.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (HVff2)

123 Too bad Palin didn't work in the word, "Confession," too.

Posted by: davidt at April 28, 2014 12:26 PM (PAplM)

124 OT: Latino assemblyman: Asians not ‘people of color’ http://bit.ly/1nzNeWa

Posted by: The Political Hat at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (CTCNK)

125 if she were irrelevant, why pay attention to her… as you are doing? Bam!

Posted by: Behind Enemy Lines at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (thLL8)

126 Could be worse. Never forget, it could be worse.
Posted by: Killerdog at April 28, 2014 04:58 PM (Zdgjo)

It could be raining.

Posted by: Igor at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (XeVA7)

127 MSNBC will not allow this, this *woman* to tell jokes about Christianity! Who does she think she is!!!

Posted by: MSNBC at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (ZPrif)

128 Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 05:26 PM (4nR9/) Well, with that written, I'll give her another look.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (HVff2)

129 I think Joseph Bottum just wrote a book (which David P. Goldman reviewed) discussing the morphing from Mainline Protestantism into the "Social Justice" civil religion, without the Diety.

"President Lies to Your Face."  I am stealing that.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (V70Uh)

130 Private Catholic schools in America were urged for every parish largely because prayer WAS allowed in the public schools. They weren't Catholic prayers, nor did the schools teach Catholic doctrine. Catholic kids were being turned into non-denominational, one-size-fits-all "Christians."

Posted by: CrabbyOldBat at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (ZVKoE)

131 Evidently, at one point Hollowpoint asked Sarah out and she gave him a resounding "no." He has seemed rather bitter toward her ever since.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (A98Xu)

132 OT: Paul Simon is looking pretty old these days. His next song will probably be "Get Off My Lawn!" http://tinyurl.com/mytgnjk

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (XUKZU)

133 If you can't take a joke why would I bother reading anything else you type?

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 12:27 PM (DL2i+)

134 Instead of death by beheading, death by hot dish/casserole at the potluck dinners. I could handle that. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 28, 2014 05:26 PM (HVff2) Not the Jello Salad!!! Anything but the Jello Salad! I confess! I confess! Just no more Jello Salad!!!!!

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (yz6yg)

135 127 MSNBC will not allow this, this *woman* to tell jokes about Christianity! Who does she think she is!!! Have somebody threaten to shit in her mouth!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (BqGMB)

136 That is an interesting take, I'll mull that one over.

But also, NRO is a bunch of pussies and need to man up.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (hJauc)

137 124 OT: Latino assemblyman: Asians not ‘people of color’ http://bit.ly/1nzNeWa Posted by: The Political Hat at April 28, 2014 05:27 PM (CTCNK) Ancient Chinese secret!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (CMkNk)

138 This distinction allowed the world to be studied, and since it was created, to be assumed to be ordered. There's a reason the scientific method and genetics were born within Christendom. Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 05:20 PM (eFytx) For years i've argued with Atheists by pointing out that if Christianity is an impediment to reason and scientific advancement, then why, was all the scientific advancement occurring in the Christian nations instead of those with other religions? (Speaking of the last three centuries.) My theory is that Christianity produces a social order which lends itself to prosperity and peace, and therefore makes the advancement of science possible.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (bb5+k)

139 Agreed. Whether you are a believer or not, adhering to the commandments isn't a bad way to go through life. BTW I'm down to one and half unbroken. Soon.

Posted by: your neighbor's ass at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (QupBk)

140 Nothing destroys morality more than a  so-called Christian  politician  invoking the name of Christ while at the same time squeezing the tits of the  women in the  choir  or lifting everyone's wallet as they pass by to shake his hand after the sermon.

Posted by: Soona at April 28, 2014 12:28 PM (ix4J8)

141 Lighten up, Francis.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2014 05:23 PM (mx5oN)

 

Maybe we should get DrewM  to post another Republican bash piece so you  guys can show me  how to lighten up when discussing  actions  of  current or former  Republican politicians.    I forget which  ones we can  get the vapors about and which ones we can't.

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:29 PM (m2CN7)

142 Instead of death by beheading, death by hot dish/casserole at the potluck dinners. I could handle that. Believe me, I have. I've died a thousand deaths in church basements over the years.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:29 PM (oMKp3)

143 Meanwhile... Democrat Alan Grayson beats his wife.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:29 PM (j4y5j)

144 97 BREAKING: A political has-been recently told a dumb, controversial joke in a desperate bid for relevancy.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (SY2Kh)

++++

So now anytime Palin tells a joke, it's a desperate bid for relevancy?

Pull your head out of your ass.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2014 12:29 PM (IN7k+)

145
IMO, we should mock terrorists in every way possible to think of.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 28, 2014 12:29 PM (hJauc)

146 Okay, I'm a-gonna lie down for a bit. I find myself agreeing with D-Lamp, and that concerns me.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (gYp5/)

147 "“It was a normal husband-and-wife discussion,” Allan Cramer said. “Paul didn't want to discuss it and she did. He tried to leave and she kind of locked the door. I don't think he started the shoving."

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (XUKZU)

148 Death by carrot and lime jello.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (V70Uh)

149 It is also important to understand that whatever its short comings, the Established Catholic Order was established as it was precisely so as to avert all that was to follow. Specifically, the Wars of Religious Fanaticism, the Wars of National Fanaticism, and then Wars of Political Organization.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (9W+0f)

150 97 BREAKING: A political has-been recently told a dumb, controversial joke in a desperate bid for relevancy. Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (SY2Kh) You are still an asshole.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (bb5+k)

151 There were times when Jesus wasn't very "civil" himself. In regards to what Sarah Palin said, some of those "complete immersion" baptisms probably look like waterboarding to non-Christians....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth (@Teresa_Koch) at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (PZ6/M)

152 "I have developed the opinion that Christian principles represent an objective standard of morality that produces defacto pragmatic benefits and secular measures of success in economics and social well being. "
That's the lesson of history. The truth is reformation principles rank high among the foundations for the principles that founded this country. The Bible is the basis for English common law which we've strayed so far from. Its the basis for western literature, which we've strayed so far from.
As Francis Schaeffer put it so well in "Escape From Reason," the further you get away from God, the less human you become.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (zfY+H)

153 My theory is that Christianity produces a social order which lends itself to prosperity and peace, and therefore makes the advancement of science possible. Sometimes you just nail it. There you go again, right smack dab on the head.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (oMKp3)

154 Republicans making policy does not equal Sarah Palin. Lightening up is different for the two.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 12:30 PM (A98Xu)

155 You take the most flak when you're over the target. It wasn't that controversial. And in any case, if she were irrelevant, why pay attention to her… as you are doing? Because the has-been attention-junkie in question is the subject of this post. On this here blog that I regularly frequent and sometimes comment on.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 12:31 PM (SY2Kh)

156 Private Catholic schools in America were urged for every parish largely because prayer WAS allowed in the public schools. They weren't Catholic prayers, nor did the schools teach Catholic doctrine. Catholic kids were being turned into non-denominational, one-size-fits-all "Christians." Posted by: CrabbyOldBat at April 28, 2014 05:27 PM (ZVKoE) Yep. What a world that would have been, with the public schools too Protestant for the Catholics. To dream.

Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 12:31 PM (eFytx)

157 OT: Latino assemblyman: Asians not ‘people of color’ Thank God he didn't refer to them as Oriental.

Posted by: Behind Enemy Lines at April 28, 2014 12:31 PM (thLL8)

158 140 Nothing destroys morality more than a so-called Christian politician invoking the name of Christ while at the same time squeezing the tits of the women in the choir or lifting everyone's wallet as they pass by to shake his hand after the sermon. Posted by: Soona at April 28, 2014 05:28 PM (ix4J No comment. No video exists. *wets thumbs and continues to count yesterdays' take*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at April 28, 2014 12:31 PM (bMkW7)

159 If you believe in an omnipotent omniscient God... who will Judge you upon death... You cannot hide your transgressions... When you worship the State, which is both Fallible, and often easily fooled... there is no divine retribution... When you worship the State... and then believe that upon your death bed, you can get a free pass by confessing.... there is no reasonably effective method of behavior control in place...

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 28, 2014 12:31 PM (84gbM)

160 84 What I think is the main thing destroying religion Protestant Christianity these days is what I've heard referred to as the Gospel of Wealth, or namely, the notion that if you go to Church, pray, and tithe, God will take care of your material needs.
Posted by: Cato at April 28, 2014 05:03 PM (4cRuH)


FIFY Posted by: Sean Bannion


Sean, you're overthinking this.  The thing killing Protestant Christianity is that the hierarchy no longer believes in anything other than their own awesome righteousness.  They're a bunch of time-serving hacks waiting for their pensions.  Either that, or would-be bleeding hearts who want to "change the world" but without all that icky theology.  Either-or, as long as they're in charge.

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:32 PM (4nR9/)

161 Good golly Miss Molly. A little ground truth here; if any other NRA speaker had said this, no one would care and no one would read her article.

Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at April 28, 2014 12:32 PM (1mtKP)

162 We are a country of candy asses.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:32 PM (j4y5j)

163 The goat is unavailable, anyone seen the chicken?

Posted by: Mohammed Mohammed at April 28, 2014 12:33 PM (W6iIX)

164

The counterpoint to Hemmingway is Jon Meacham, who argures that public religion is indispensible to reducing social friction and promoting freedom of religion.

Posted by: kdsflyfree@yahoo.com at April 28, 2014 12:33 PM (HBAcW)

165 Republicans making policy does not equal Sarah Palin.

Lightening up is different for the two.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 05:30 PM (A98Xu)

 

Romney is making policy?

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:33 PM (m2CN7)

166 If you don't enjoy this your worse than Hitler : http://tinyurl.com/kjamxed

Posted by: Dr Spank at April 28, 2014 12:33 PM (5UteM)

167 Posted by: your neighbor's ass at April 28, 2014 05:28 PM (QupBk) Heh. I'm safe on that one. Neighbors ain't hitting on much. Didn't say anything about across town IIRC.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 12:33 PM (/djtm)

168 I think Palin made a joke. And I really don't give a fuck what the perpetually upset pussy class thinks.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2014 12:33 PM (xWW96)

169 Sean, you're overthinking this. The thing killing Protestant Christianity is that the hierarchy no longer believes in anything other than their own awesome righteousness. They're a bunch of time-serving hacks waiting for their pensions. Either that, or would-be bleeding hearts who want to "change the world" but without all that icky theology. Either-or, as long as they're in charge. Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 05:32 PM (4nR9/) I think it's all related, actually. And, although I'm Catholic and not Protestant, it's most emphatically NOT a good thing that it's happening.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 12:34 PM (yz6yg)

170 Romney is making policy? Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 05:33 PM (m2CN7) Not any more. Because…..RINO.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 28, 2014 12:34 PM (A98Xu)

171 Do you deny that it would be far better for everyone on the planet if every Muslim, especially of the Jihadi variety, converted to Christianity? Posted by: Lauren at April 28, 2014 05:24 PM (hFL/3) I believe that to be true, but what I believe might be good for them, or for the planet has no bearing on what they wish to believe, and I believe they have a right to believe what they want.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:34 PM (bb5+k)

172 128 Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 05:26 PM (4nR9/)

Well, with that written, I'll give her another look. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian


Bear in mind that I'm partial to the wimmenz with high foreheads.

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:34 PM (4nR9/)

173 When they came for the people who tell jokes about baptizing terrorists, I did not speak out because I did not tell jokes about baptizing terrorists.

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:34 PM (XUKZU)

174 I think it's all related, actually. And, although I'm Catholic and not Protestant, it's most emphatically NOT a good thing that it's happening. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 28, 2014 05:34 PM (yz6yg) Ditto on all accounts.

Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 12:35 PM (eFytx)

175 >>From the Greek: to submerse
>>Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 28, 2014 05:26 PM (/djtm)

Exactly.  Too many pants-wetters.

Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 12:35 PM (roO4n)

176 Isn't it true anyways.

We dunk their hairy ass.  They come out spluttering, confess their sins, we leave em in Gitmo forever because we can't get our shit together to Tribunal and Execute them (a sort of forgiveness and definitely a new life of clean sheets, 3 hots and a cot).

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 12:35 PM (DL2i+)

177 Personally, I don't care how often Islam is offended. It's problem is that throughout its history it hasn't been offended enough to mature as a faith. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 28, 2014 05:24 PM (yz6yg) I'm actually thinking that offending Islam ought to be part of our modus operandi.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:35 PM (bb5+k)

178

Here Chicken, Here Chicken...

 

 

Posted by: Mohammed Mohammed at April 28, 2014 12:36 PM (W6iIX)

179 Maybe we should get DrewM to post another Republican bash piece so you guys can show me how to lighten up when discussing actions of current or former Republican politicians. I forget which ones we can get the vapors about and which ones we can't. Posted by: polynikes

I don't like the constant GOP bashing either, but the fact is that they're trying awfully hard to earn it.

BTW, how you liking Cliven Bundy now?

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:36 PM (4nR9/)

180 #OMG

Posted by: BHO [/i] [/b] at April 28, 2014 12:36 PM (5ikDv)

181 Now this is a joke: A ancient Roman walks into a bar and holds up two fingers. He says, "Five beers."

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:36 PM (XUKZU)

182 God wants intimacy with us, not religion. Ergo, I'm wary of pretty much any religion, civil or otherwise.

Posted by: . at April 28, 2014 12:37 PM (vgIRn)

183 Cheese and rice can no one take a joke these days?

Posted by: DangerGirl, who is tired at April 28, 2014 12:37 PM (GrtrJ)

184 The Decatholicization of Anglican Saxony was a fundamentally Statist initiative, which maximized the power/autonomy of the Monarch/State. The Princes of parts of the Holy Roman Empire also soon came to appreciate the advantage that, what would fundamentally end up being secularization as far as their personal politics went would yield for them.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 12:38 PM (9W+0f)

185 Palin made the crack knowing it would make the MSM's heads explode and her speech would get nationwide coverage of outrage She trolled the MSM. Well played, Sarah Since it's an outrage to make the enemy feel butthurt, will Psaki create a #WeStandWithAlQaeda hashtag?

Posted by: kbdabear at April 28, 2014 12:38 PM (aTXUx)

186 I don't need Islamic terrorists to he Christian. I would just like them to abandon radical Islam And while we are at it, no one seriously thinks Palin is talking about baptism Is hyperbole illegal now? Is the word "baptism" on the list of banned words that must not be uttered?

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 12:39 PM (zOTsN)

187 I have some good Muslim jokes, but don't want to get Ace into any shit.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2014 12:39 PM (xWW96)

188 Personally I love a good baptism. Last baptism service we had, we dunked over 60 people. Yeah, we push them all the way under too. It's kinda like wet t shirt night / slash / revival meeting. With cake.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:39 PM (oMKp3)

189 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Posting From Chrome at April 28, 2014 05:01 PM (0q2P7) C'mon man it's not like the crazy liberals are chasing us out of the teaching structure.... Oh wait, that was a wonderful dream I had. Carry on, this shit is scary.

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 12:39 PM (a8eFL)

190 146 Okay, I'm a-gonna lie down for a bit. I find myself agreeing with D-Lamp, and that concerns me. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 05:30 PM (gYp5/) There is a method to my madness which is not always discernible at first glance.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:40 PM (bb5+k)

191

Personally, I don't care how often Islam is offended. It's problem is that throughout its history it hasn't been offended enough to mature as a faith.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 28, 2014 05:24 PM (yz6yg)


I don't give a fuck about Islam.  I  do give a fuck about American policy and the issue of how close we come to torturing prisoners.   I approve of using waterboarding in the rare cases where its deemed needed to prevent further harm to our side.   It  has serious ramnifications for our military who may be captured  if we make light of it  and not just with conflicts with Islam.  

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:40 PM (m2CN7)

192 Knicks executive and former player Larry Johnson calls for all black league with all black ownership. Fighting racism with more racism. Well played, black NBA executive Larry Johnson.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 28, 2014 12:41 PM (ZPrif)

193 Is hyperbole illegal now? Humans are pretty much illegal now. You can't say anything without having somebody try to tear you down.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:41 PM (yU1Dt)

194 It has serious ramnifications for our military who may be captured if we make light of it and not just with conflicts with Islam.

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 05:40 PM (m2CN7)

 

dude, you read history

 

I have no Geniva Convention in the Koran

Posted by: Mohammed Mohammed at April 28, 2014 12:41 PM (W6iIX)

195 Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 05:39 PM (zOTsN) Problem is, there is no radical Islam. The closer you follow the Koran... the more Anti West and Anti Civil Rights, you become. They are not Radical... they are Fundamentalists...

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 28, 2014 12:42 PM (84gbM)

196 It would be nice if people took criticism for what it is. Geeze. No one is saying to burn Palin at the stake, just that the joke was tasteless/bad and that it brings to mind the related concept of Civil Religion/Fuzzy Christian Everything.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:42 PM (gYp5/)

197 And, although I'm Catholic and not Protestant, it's most emphatically NOT a good thing that it's happening.

I can't say that I'm an ideal Christian.  OTOH, I know the difference between a person who wants to do good because of a deep-seated desire to help others, and a person who sees religion as a convenient vehicle to control others.  It's about control.  It's always about control.

I'm a Lutheran, so that may help explain my antipathy for clerical authority.

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:42 PM (4nR9/)

198 Poly Do you really think if we don't water board them they won't torture us? Come on. You don't really believe that.

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 12:42 PM (zOTsN)

199 Who will be the first Republican Senator to denounce Sarah's statement? (May have already happened for all I know)

Posted by: Behind Enemy Lines at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (thLL8)

200 192 Knicks executive and former player Larry Johnson calls for all black league with all black ownership. Segregation, but good segregation! I'll hold my breath while the 'Fire Eich!' crowd goes after Larry Johnson. Oh right, as a white man, I can't understand the hard life a famous basketball player has had.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (yU1Dt)

201 It has serious ramnifications for our military who may be captured if we make light of it and not just with conflicts with Islam. --- derp de what? We can't make jokes cause jihadis might be more cruel than they are now?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (ZPrif)

202 It was a joke...remember those?

Posted by: Mekan at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (zG16+)

203 I want the head of John the Waterboarder on a platter!

Posted by: What's Her Name at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (PAplM)

204 The strong association between Statism and Conformist Protestantism in Anglican Saxony induced a Lutheran/Nonconformist Protestant reaction among some of the population, who would then more or less be forced to leave Britain in favor of a New World, more distant from the State and its pet church.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (9W+0f)

205 BTW, how you liking Cliven Bundy now?

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 05:36 PM (4nR9/)

 

Read Victor Hansen's article on the issue and you will know exactly how I feel about him  which is how I felt about it from the beginning. 

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (m2CN7)

206 O/T I see that Maryland is announcing our healthcare signup is successful. 330,000 signed up total. 260,000 of which were Medicare. And no report of how many signed up because they lost their original coverage.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (X2NEw)

207

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 05:42 PM (zOTsN)

 

 

 

 

I believe it!

Posted by: Nick Berg at April 28, 2014 12:43 PM (xWW96)

208 184 The Decatholicization of Anglican Saxony was a fundamentally Statist initiative, which maximized the power/autonomy of the Monarch/State. The Princes of parts of the Holy Roman Empire also soon came to appreciate the advantage that, what would fundamentally end up being secularization as far as their personal politics went would yield for them. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney

Does it hurt?  I mean, pulling stuff out of your ass like that.

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:44 PM (4nR9/)

209 181 Now this is a joke: A ancient Roman walks into a bar and holds up two fingers. He says, "Five beers." Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 05:36 PM (XUKZU) I actually liked that one.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:44 PM (bb5+k)

210 Hanson

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 12:44 PM (m2CN7)

211 Actually, I'm gonna go with we should conduct a Baptism while waterboarding muslim terrorists. That would freak them out more than anything- even the water boarding itself. Once the word gets out, you'd probably get lots of info without spilling a drop of water.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2014 12:45 PM (0cMkb)

212 202 It was a joke...remember those? Only jokes that say God isn't real are allowed.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:45 PM (yU1Dt)

213 If you didn't like the joke don't laugh. Call her tasteless. Fine But lets not pretend she was really talking about religion or that some words are banned.

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 12:45 PM (zOTsN)

214 209 181 Now this is a joke: A ancient Roman walks into a bar and holds up two fingers. He says, "Five beers." Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 05:36 PM (XUKZU) I actually liked that one. Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 05:44 PM (bb5+k) Just Five??? not... /holds up his fingers, and crosses them...

Posted by: The Bartender... at April 28, 2014 12:46 PM (84gbM)

215 If religion and God are real, may He strike me down in my youth.

Posted by: Bill Hicks at April 28, 2014 12:46 PM (5UteM)

216 Hilarious excerpt from the transcript of a deposition Donald Sterling gave several years ago. http://tinyurl.com/ke74kyw

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 28, 2014 12:46 PM (XUKZU)

217 It has serious ramnifications for our military who may be captured if we make light of it and not just with conflicts with Islam. ******* Yeah, if we stop with the jokes, they'll only, cut off half heads instead of whole ones. Riiiiggghhhttt..

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at April 28, 2014 12:46 PM (ojnk6)

218 Natural flake Cut Jib Newsletter

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 12:47 PM (zOTsN)

219 156 Private Catholic schools in America were urged for every parish largely because prayer WAS allowed in the public schools. They weren't Catholic prayers, nor did the schools teach Catholic doctrine. Catholic kids were being turned into non-denominational, one-size-fits-all "Christians." Posted by: CrabbyOldBat at April 28, 2014 05:27 PM (ZVKoE) Not my experience. Our school was VERY Catholic and I have the popping thumb joints to prove it.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at April 28, 2014 12:47 PM (bMkW7)

220 Hemingway:

She said something that struck me as sacrilegious.
[...]
The Lutheran catechism, which I have here on my shelf, is a collection of teachings for the church. A teaching aid for family use, it goes through the commandments and creed and sacraments and what not. The section on the sacrament of baptism explains what baptism is — the water connected to God’s word; what that word of God is — the Gospel of Jesus, and what baptism gives us:

And much more along these lines. Hemingway is criticizing Palin for blasphemy.  I haven't followed the folks over at The Federalist all that closely, but is this par for the course? If other politicians and political commentators on the right don't toe the church's line, should they too expect a verbal tongue lashing for the insufficiency of their religiosity?

Nonsense.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2014 12:47 PM (IN7k+)

221 People are just looking for reasons to be offended, and even folks on the right are turning into cannibals. Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 05:21 PM (roO4n) Everyone is aggrieved today. I don't know if it is the overwhelming amount of information on the internet, the explosion of political sites, etc. but people are completely unhinged. Everyone is looking with "microagression" at every sentence uttered by anyone with any name recognition , looking for the hidden meaning, to determine how much malice, incorrect usage, misstated history, or plain poor taste is in it. And I'll say this as a woman. A LOT of it is coming from women. I feel like I am back in the 7th grade, huddled in a gaggle group of vicious thirteen year old girls tearing apart another 7th grader for wearing crotch defining jeans and trying to steal Julie's boyfriend. We seem to not be able to to laugh at the inherent meaning of a joke, the embedded truth in sarcasm. Everything requires dissection and inspections and wringing out every drop of possible englightenment whether positive or negative. It is exhausting.

Posted by: Jen at April 28, 2014 12:47 PM (/CN/i)

222 "BTW, how you liking Cliven Bundy now?"
I like him as much as his his black Marine buddy does.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 28, 2014 12:48 PM (zfY+H)

223 Well, NRO has taken to the fainting couches:
 
Sarah Palin’s Barbarism
By Patrick Brennan
April 28, 2014 12:58 PM
http://tinyurl.com/lhe3twe
**********
@charlescwcooke
Unprepared, incoherent, embarrassing, inappropriate for the event,
witless, counterproductive, and stealing focus from the wider mission.
@charlescwcooke  ·  1h
Somehow, Sarah Palin’s speech at the NRA convention was
worse than last year’s. She’s in her late-stage Amy Winehouse phase.

Posted by: jeannebodine at April 28, 2014 12:48 PM (2LJqa)

224 btw, anyone listen to Rush today? I caught a few minutes today and I heard a caller, some typical Rush-caller hayseed from Arkalabama or wherever, and he told a short anecdote about free speech. Caller said he saw some teen wearing a "Jesus Is A C" t-shirt. This has been bothering me for the past 4 hours. I would like to *think* I would instantly smash this young man's face, but that's fantasy. I would do nothing at all if people were around. It's more important to me stay out of jail (plus avoid a lawsuit) than stand up for what is right. I do not like this about myself.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:48 PM (j4y5j)

225

Since I am unfamiliar with Mollie Hemingway...and since Ace keeps doing threads about her...I decided to edumacate myself a bit.

 

She is the daughter of a preacher, and has written a lot of articles on religion.

 

Here is a picture of her and her husband:

 

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kq4urk3 

 

 

So she was raised in the Lutheran Church, and a preacher's daughter.

This may have something to do with her making the statement, that:

"This is a perfect example not just of civil religion but also how civil religion harms the church."

 

 

 

 

Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 12:49 PM (la7X9)

226 And to answer Ace's topic query, "Is "Civil Religion" Harmful to the Actual Church?" I would have to say "yes." It is a "God" substitute. We can look at Atheist Russia and China for their state worshiping goodness and 100 million body pile, but mostly that 100 million body pile.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:50 PM (bb5+k)

227 In my personal opinion, a waterboarding baptism is a much lighter punishment than what they deserve, but I'm just a crazy right wing hater.

Posted by: DangerGirl, who is tired at April 28, 2014 12:50 PM (GrtrJ)

228 There, they would establish a bunch of Christian Nations which would gradually unify into a Collection of Christian Nations, eventually becoming a gratuitously-centralized Christian Nation, before eventually becoming a gratuitously-centralized Politically-Correct Atheistic Nation.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 12:50 PM (9W+0f)

229 90 Beck was right about "social justice" churches being a big cover for socialism. In Catholicism, you will find that in the inner city parishes. It didn't fly in ours (NW suburban Chicago, very Conservative).

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at April 28, 2014 12:51 PM (bMkW7)

230 Civil Religion like Civil War,..... aren't.

Posted by: Keep a Civil Tongue at April 28, 2014 12:51 PM (nbGZj)

231 Whatever Save your energy for real issues This isn't worth it

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 12:51 PM (zOTsN)

232 I just learned recently that Wendy is short Gwendolyn. What is Molly short for?

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 12:51 PM (j4y5j)

233 But...she was talking about religion! Not seriously, jokingly, but when you joke about something, you're still talking about it. I don't think a politician should always refrain from talking about (seriously or jokingly) religion in public, but one should try using some tact and common sense I agree that we shouldn't act as though words are banned---but we also shouldn't act as though criticizing certain words (especially when used by certain people) is banned.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:52 PM (gYp5/)

234 What I think is the main thing destroying religion Protestant
Christianity these days is what I've heard referred to as the Gospel of
Wealth, or namely, the notion that if you go to Church, pray, and tithe,
God will take care of your material needs.


I always find it interesting that those that preach the Gospel of Wealth seem to have very large homes and drive very expensive cars...at the expense of those who sit in their pews and buy their books.

Posted by: Emperor Norton II at April 28, 2014 12:52 PM (MlqTY)

235 Well if Christians started blowing themselves up in public places and chopping heads off for Youtube they would get a lot more respect from the leftards. The trouble is those acts would be hard to justify via the Gospels.

Posted by: maddogg at April 28, 2014 12:52 PM (xWW96)

236 Read Victor Hansen's article on the issue and you will know exactly how I feel about him which is how I felt about it from the beginning.

Posted by: polynikes at April 28, 2014 05:43 PM (m2CN7)

Read it.  I'm a big VDH fan, but I have to say, that was one of his weaker columns.  This stood out, however. 

I don’t think that those who sympathize with Bundy’s argument against an overweening federal government (with the necessary caveat, as I posted last week, that he has an unconvincing legal case and when it is finally adjudicated should pay any fines incurred) agree with, or care about, his world views to the extent they are even known

I don't give a rat's patootie about his world view.  Frankly, he isn't very bright.  But if your argument is that the Feds use Federal land unfairly, you've got a tough row to hoe.  The problem is that he appropriated the people's land for his own use and profit.  Don't like Fed policy?  Oppose it and say why.  But profiting off of it at the same time weakens your argument fatally.  The fact that the man is a bit of a moron is amusing.  It makes it much harder to play the noble sons of toil card.

Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 12:52 PM (4nR9/)

237 Joking aside, it's still not offensive to force christians to pay for abortions is it?

Posted by: Up With People at April 28, 2014 12:52 PM (pf+hU)

238 Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 05:50 PM (9W+0f) ********* You had better up the voltage and dosages.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at April 28, 2014 12:52 PM (ojnk6)

239 Because Protestantism fragments and weakens the unified Church, collectivism and the State become the principal "principles" of societal organization.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 12:53 PM (9W+0f)

240 13th Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Blaspheme St. Palin For That Stupid Thing She Said.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 12:54 PM (SY2Kh)

241 If I were in charge every captured terrorist would receive a quick military tribunal and be summarily executed on the battlefield.

The next president would be encouraged by the left to waterboard them instead.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at April 28, 2014 12:54 PM (uhMMS)

242 Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 05:49 PM (la7X9) If Mollie Hemingway is coming at the issue of baptism from the Lutheran perspective, I can see where could very well take offense at Sarah Palin's joke. Evangelicals hold baptism in a slightly different doctrinal light than do Lutherans. I believe Sarah is evangelical. I'm saying this badly. I dont know how to put it well.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 12:55 PM (oMKp3)

243 BTW, how you liking Cliven Bundy now? --- Same as I felt about those guys that dumped all that tea. They didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Posted by: Up With People at April 28, 2014 12:56 PM (pf+hU)

244 "What is Molly short for?"

Molybdenum

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at April 28, 2014 12:56 PM (uhMMS)

245 btw, anyone listen to Rush today? I caught a few minutes today and I heard a caller, some typical Rush-caller hayseed from Arkalabama or wherever, and he told a short anecdote about free speech. Caller said he saw some teen wearing a "Jesus Is A C" t-shirt. This has been bothering me for the past 4 hours. I would like to *think* I would instantly smash this young man's face, but that's fantasy. I would do nothing at all if people were around. It's more important to me stay out of jail (plus avoid a lawsuit) than stand up for what is right. I do not like this about myself. Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 05:48 PM (j4y5j) yes, I heard it. The caller said that he saw the t-shirt and asked a police officer if there was anything that could be done and he said, no, it was protected under free speech. He wanted to know why Sterling doesn't have the same privilege. His point was a bit confusing.

Posted by: Jen at April 28, 2014 12:56 PM (/CN/i)

246 "Joking aside, it's still not offensive to force christians to pay for abortions is it?" It's not really a big offense. Not like making Muslims subsidize infidel's BLTs.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 28, 2014 12:57 PM (X2NEw)

247 Hemingway is criticizing Palin for blasphemy. --- Or for rudely and offensively joking about a religious practice that she (Palin) does not hold in the same regard that others do. Which is pretty much manners 101.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 12:57 PM (gYp5/)

248 What is Molly short for? I've heard it's not "short" for anything. It's an alternate for Mary, from when every girl was named Mary.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/s][/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 12:57 PM (8ifMA)

249 Peter Griffin show me the truth and the light at the Church of the Fonz.

Posted by: Aaayyyeeeeee at April 28, 2014 12:57 PM (yn6XZ)

250 I think this navel gazing and handwringing over her statement is overwrought All this discussion reveals is who liked her before and who didnt. Tells you nothing about her Breitbart trolled the press mercilessly. If he said the same thing would we all be told to clutch our pearls? He was a big fan of mocking and hyperbole and used them as bludgeons. Are we too delicate for that now?

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 12:57 PM (zOTsN)

251 The problem is that he appropriated the people's land for his own use and profit. People's land? Who elects the BLM? In a nation of ten thousand issues, we need to keep track of each one at election time and then shut up about them? We can't ever tell our government to fuck off? And considering the guy was using the land long before the feds decided it was theirs, how is he appropriating it? And if we don't care about our borders, why do we care about this? The other half of the country has no respect for the rule of law. The only morons are the people who want to hold one side to a higher standard.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 12:58 PM (Ng/f0)

252 Well got this closing in on me...
http://www.wapt.com/weather/radar

Meanwhile - Sheldon, Nomad, and Norman get locked in a briefing room.  With Harry Mudd.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 28, 2014 12:58 PM (yrfxM)

253

242...I'm saying this badly. I dont know how to put it well.

 

---------

 

No, I understand what you were saying, grammie winger.

And I think you're probably right.

 

 

 

Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 12:58 PM (la7X9)

254 I don't give a rat's patootie about his world view. Frankly, he isn't very bright. But if your argument is that the Feds use Federal land unfairly, you've got a tough row to hoe. The problem is that he appropriated the people's land for his own use and profit. Don't like Fed policy? Oppose it and say why. But profiting off of it at the same time weakens your argument fatally. The fact that the man is a bit of a moron is amusing. It makes it much harder to play the noble sons of toil card. Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 05:52 PM (4nR9/) I think that is an unfair categorization of Bundy's circumstance. My understanding is that his family has always grazed cattle on that land for the last 130 years, and it was only after asshole Bill Clinton directed the Department of interior to start a bunch of shit with people like him, that he balked at agreeing to their terms. He was paying grazing fees, until the FedGov decided unilaterally to limit his herd to 150 cows, a figure at which he claims he cannot survive. He's running around 900 cattle currently, and cutting his numbers by a factor of six would be a problem from my perspective. They have also ran the 50 or so other ranchers off the land, leaving a current total of three. (or so I have read.) The FedGov may have a legal right to the land, but their rational for excluding him from it is made up bullshit and constitutes a breech of past agreements and fair dealing.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 12:58 PM (bb5+k)

255 What about head chopping?  Can we baptize terrorists in their own spinal fluid?

Posted by: Fritz at April 28, 2014 12:59 PM (oJUxt)

256 so a theoretical baptism by waterboarding is the worst thing in the world but being called domestic terrorists by the senate majority leader (which ostensibly opens the door for actual killing by the federal govt) is ok

Posted by: sound awake at April 28, 2014 01:00 PM (pk/NG)

257 Molybdenum Shirley you jest.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:00 PM (j4y5j)

258 I think Palin was splitting the difference between "sprinkle" baptism (a la Methodists and others) and "immersion" baptism (a la Baptists and others). Waterboarding is sort of a hybrid. Paul said he would be all things to all people to save some (more or less), so maybe Palin is just suggesting that waterboarding would be the appropriate style of baptism for terrorists in a "tailor the message" kind of way.

Posted by: OCBill at April 28, 2014 01:00 PM (rFipM)

259 But, the State unmoderated by Christianity is an inherently and excessively violent instrument. That was the fundamental fact which caused people to embrace Christianity when this whole chain of events began.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 01:00 PM (9W+0f)

260 Thou Shalt Not Blaspheme St. Palin For That Stupid Thing She Said. Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 05:54 PM (SY2Kh) You're just jealous because nobody pays attention to the stupid shit you say.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 01:00 PM (bb5+k)

261 Besides the Palin hatred, some of the issue is the left wants to treats terrorists like POWS, or worse, American criminal defendants,

If terrorists are to be afforded the same rights as POWs etc, what is to stop everyone from ignoring all Geneva protocols (or whatever they're called) during war?

Posted by: Baldy at April 28, 2014 01:01 PM (2bql3)

262 If anyone on the left had jokingly contrasted baptism and waterboarding this would be a very different conversation.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 01:01 PM (gYp5/)

263 The caller was trying to say that either we can say everything or we can't say anything. But the Left controls our Free Speech, it's past time we admit that fact.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:01 PM (j4y5j)

264 FFS it was a joke. When was it demanded we all turn in to humorless scolds?

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 01:02 PM (zOTsN)

265 Because Protestantism fragments and weakens the unified Church, collectivism and the State become the principal "principles" of societal organization.' Given that Catholicism pretty much ran the State when it held position as "the unified Church", I don't think your point is valid. I would argue that having such a hierarchical structure tends to lead one towards a similar attitude towards government. Which may explain why Catholics tend to be to the left of Protestants.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 01:02 PM (SY2Kh)

266 It's an alternate for Mary, from when every girl was named Mary. This sounds acceptable.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:03 PM (j4y5j)

267 I am sick of self appointed speech police

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 01:03 PM (zOTsN)

268 The kid has a right to wear his disgusting shirt,and I have a right to tell him what I think of it.

Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2014 01:03 PM (zqvg6)

269 You're just jealous because nobody pays attention to the stupid shit you say. Sarah Palin is secretly Canadian and faked her birth certificate to gain American citizenship.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 28, 2014 01:04 PM (SY2Kh)

270 This is just an attempt to get more mileage out of bashing Sarah Palin.

Posted by: whoever at April 28, 2014 01:04 PM (pjMym)

271 Molybdenum Shirley you jest. Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 06:00 PM (j4y5j) Don't call me Shirley.

Posted by: Jen at April 28, 2014 01:04 PM (/CN/i)

272 And so was the idea that the State should not coopt, adulterate, and/or retard religion. Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 28, 2014 01:05 PM (9W+0f)

273 Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 05:51 PM (j4y5j)---- "Molly" used to be often used as a nickname for "Mary."

Posted by: Baldy at April 28, 2014 01:06 PM (2bql3)

274 I guess both sides want speech police and it's just a disagreement over who gets to wear the badge

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 01:06 PM (zOTsN)

275 What do you think of Tryptophan for a boy's name? Or Aristophanes?

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:07 PM (j4y5j)

276 247 Hemingway is criticizing Palin for blasphemy.

---

Or for rudely and offensively joking about a religious practice that she (Palin) does not hold in the same regard that others do. Which is pretty much manners 101.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 05:57 PM (gYp5/)

++++

You don't think Palin's Christian beliefs are sincere or sufficient? Here's a newsflash for you: some people have a sense of humor and are willing to joke about things, even if those things are important. Palin has never taken me into her confidence regarding her beliefs, but based on what's publicly available (Wikipedia):

Palin was born into a Roman Catholic family. Later, her family joined the Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church, which she attended until 2002. Palin then switched to the Wasilla Bible Church. When in Juneau, she attends the Juneau Christian Center. Palin described herself in an interview as a "Bible-believing Christian."

She looks like someone who takes her Christianity seriously. Perhaps not to the level of shouting "Blasphemer!" at anyone who tells a joke, but still, pretty seriously.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2014 01:07 PM (IN7k+)

277 268 The kid has a right to wear his disgusting shirt,and I have a right to tell him what I think of it. Posted by: steevy at April 28, 2014 06:03 PM (zqvg6) My understanding of the bill of rights is that the government may not chose to punish you for your expression of opinion. This is not the same thing at all as saying individuals may not beat the fuck out of you because you pissed them off. Now if you do so, the government is obligated to punish you if you broke any laws during your administering of an ass beating, but if asses didn't wear offensive tee-shirts, asses would not get beaten. Deterrence also works for private citizens, if they are consistent in it's application.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 01:07 PM (bb5+k)

278 I do love Chillbilly's ability to live rent free in Leftist's heads.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at April 28, 2014 01:08 PM (ojnk6)

279 I guess both sides want speech police ---- Right. Because criticizing her is exactly the same as what the left is doing with campus speech codes etc. Because we called for a boycott, too.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 01:08 PM (gYp5/)

280 What do you think of Tryptophan for a boy's name?
Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 06:07 PM (j4y5j)

That would put that turkey to sleep.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 28, 2014 01:10 PM (XeVA7)

281 Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 06:07 PM (j4y5j) Please don't give my wife any ideas for bad names

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 01:10 PM (a8eFL)

282 Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 06:02 PM (zOTsN)

How dare you mock this rite!

Posted by: Humorless Scolds, local 443 at April 28, 2014 01:10 PM (QFxY5)

283 The fact that the man is a bit of a moron is amusing. It makes it much harder to play the noble sons of toil card. Posted by: pep at April 28, 2014 05:52 PM (4nR9/) "You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."

Posted by: Jim [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 01:11 PM (yz6yg)

284 RE: The "Gospel of Wealth" This seems like a contortion of Jesus' "Consider the Lillies of the Field" God will take care of you doctrine. I'm sure the only wealth that's promised directly is in His Kingdom, not here on Earth.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/s][/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 01:11 PM (8ifMA)

285 "Civil Religion" Never heard that term before. Is it me or is this something new-ish? --- I think it's you. I seem to remember the term being around forever. "God Bless America" is an example of civil religion, and the song is old.

Posted by: whoever at April 28, 2014 01:11 PM (pjMym)

286 Molly (Wikipedia): pet form of Mary or Margaret, Molly is also a given name in its own right meaning either "dew of the sea" or "jewel of the sea".

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 28, 2014 01:11 PM (IN7k+)

287 Getting angry and engaging the teen is exactly what he wants. The proper response is the infliction of pain. You see, that's how societies remain civil -- when they swiftly correct uncivil behavior.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:11 PM (j4y5j)

288 I would argue that having such a hierarchical structure tends to lead one towards a similar attitude towards government. Which may explain why Catholics tend to be to the left of Protestants. Not really. Catholics who are leftwing are usually nonobservant, and inclined not to listen to the hierarchy. Devout Catholics are very hard right on most issues.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 01:12 PM (vHFY7)

289 The section on the sacrament of baptism explains what baptism is — the water connected to God’s word; what that word of God is — the Gospel of Jesus, and what baptism gives us

It's entirely unpossible that the English language may have changed a bit since her catechism was written (in German...) in the 16th century, I guess.

But file this under "21st century Americans are too stupid for metaphors."  The list of examples already fills that creepy fed data storage site in Utah, what's one more?

Posted by: HR at April 28, 2014 01:12 PM (ZKzrr)

290 No wonder we get our fucking asses kicked by the left. We have people on the so called right who actually attack Palin for saying she would waterboard fucking terrorists who would kill our whole families then rape the corpses! Our side is pathetic and weak. I am ashamed of the so called conservative movement. We don't stand up for shit, and when someone like Palin does, we just agree with the media and barely lift a finger to help her. We deserve this shitty fucking country we have become. Amnesty here we come, now or later, it will happen.

Posted by: Dan at April 28, 2014 01:13 PM (COpZ4)

291 It's a good thing we have no important issues to tackle. I'll make a note to myself to print Mollie Hemingway's articles out so I can wipe my @$$ with them.

Posted by: Hadoop at April 28, 2014 01:13 PM (Ph479)

292 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 06:12 PM (vHFY7) Word, Where's Bannion he needs to come put some knowledge up in here.

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 01:13 PM (a8eFL)

293 Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 06:11 PM (j4y5j)

Trip the little fucker on the escalator, then rush over and pretend that you care, and whisper to him why you did it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2014 01:14 PM (QFxY5)

294 This seems like a contortion of Jesus' "Consider the Lillies of the Field" God will take care of you doctrine. I'm sure the only wealth that's promised directly is in His Kingdom, not here on Earth. Posted by: bonhomme at April 28, 2014 06:11 PM (8ifMA) By my recollection, none of the Apostles ended fat and happy. All, save John, martyred in pretty horrific ways.

Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 01:15 PM (eFytx)

295 The proper response is the infliction of pain. You see, that's how societies remain civil -- when they swiftly correct uncivil behavior. Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 06:11 PM (j4y5j) First the teen get's punched out and then he thinks "What an asshole!" But he doesn't wear that shirt again. Next teen gets punched out and then he thinks "What an asshole!" But he doesn't wear that shirt again. Next teen gets punched out and then he thinks "What an asshole!" But he doesn't wear that shirt again. After awhile, teens start discouraging other teens from wearing shirts that are likely to get them punched out. The standard gets established.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 28, 2014 01:15 PM (bb5+k)

296 Posted by: bonhomme at April 28, 2014 06:11 PM (8ifMA) I heard somewhere recently that if you own a home, have a car, and work at a job where you are regularly paid, and have a refrigerator with food in it, you are in the top 5% of the worlds population in terms of wealth. I would think that demanding God make you even more prosperous is kind of cheeky.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 01:15 PM (oMKp3)

297 Molly, Mary, what is diffrinse?

Posted by: Me No Speakee Engerish at April 28, 2014 01:16 PM (PAplM)

298 Word, Where's Bannion he needs to come put some knowledge up in here. Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 06:13 PM (a8eFL) Yep. There are every Sunday Catholics and then there are cultural, Kennedy Catholics.

Posted by: AMDG at April 28, 2014 01:16 PM (eFytx)

299 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 06:12 PM (vHFY7)

Not so much.

Posted by: LiberationTheologists Local 124 at April 28, 2014 01:16 PM (QFxY5)

300 I think that this 'civil religion' bit is a good thing, if we are talking about a general cultural environment of Christianity, because then people are raised with at least a baseline familiarity with the faith. And that's a good thing, at the very least, because they need to understand it in order to understand their heritage. Also, as a believer, to me this is a good thing because exposure to the Word or to someone's sincere prayers can plant a seed, whether it's an invocation before a meeting, the Bible passage reading at your cousin's traditional Lutheran wedding ceremony, etc. One of the things I love about living in Texas is the fact that no one (at least in South Texas where I live) gets upset when high school football players take a knee for a prayer with the coach before the game, or someone offers a blessing before they open the table at the company Christmas part, or things like that. What makes me sad is the thought that there are many many people being raised up completely ignorant of their own Christian heritage. I'd think that was a crying shame even without the question of whether people are hearing the good news that will save their souls.

Posted by: Republic of Texas 2: Electric Boogaloo at April 28, 2014 01:16 PM (Gk2GE)

301 If you want offensive, check out Hillary's boneheaded take on the fishes and loaves parable and her presumption of equal billing with Jesus as a matter of faith.

Posted by: Fritz at April 28, 2014 01:17 PM (oJUxt)

302 Trip the little fucker on the escalator, then rush over and pretend that you care, and whisper to him why you did it. But I'm saying that his rebuke should be a public spectacle, after which I get thanked not arrested and sued.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:17 PM (j4y5j)

303 >> I'll make a note to myself to print Mollie Hemingway's articles out so I can wipe my @$$ with them. Posted by: Hadoop Be careful, the dullness may rub off on you.

Posted by: Aviator at April 28, 2014 01:17 PM (3rrMW)

304 And she wasn't mocking baptism she was clearly mocking people who are more concerned about the "dignity" of terrorists than they are with American lives. A subject worthy of mockery.

Posted by: Thunderb at April 28, 2014 01:18 PM (zOTsN)

305 Not really. Catholics who are leftwing are usually nonobservant, and inclined not to listen to the hierarchy. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 06:12 PM (vHFY7) This. Another good way of spotting them is if they advertise "Liturgical Dance" at Sunday Mass.

Posted by: Jim [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 01:18 PM (yz6yg)

306

288...Devout Catholics are very hard right on most issues.

 

Then how come so many of them vote for Democrats?

 

And there are priests out there who even campaign for Dems.

Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 01:18 PM (la7X9)

307 Posted by: LiberationTheologists Local 124 at April 28, 2014 06:16 PM (QFxY5) Yeah, but the leftist Catholics want a secular Catholicism they're just to gutless to say so.

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 01:18 PM (a8eFL)

308 But, yeah, I need to perfect the "one-inch punch" so I strike these peckerheads without making a scene (or getting caught on camera).

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:19 PM (j4y5j)

309 Then how come so many of them vote for Democrats? Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 06:18 PM (la7X9) Not really. Catholics who are leftwing are usually nonobservant, and inclined not to listen to the hierarchy. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 06:12 PM (vHFY7) He answered it well.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 01:19 PM (yz6yg)

310 I heard somewhere recently that if you own a home, have a car, and work at a job where you are regularly paid, and have a refrigerator with food in it, you are in the top 5% of the worlds population in terms of wealth. That sounds right. Without looking it up I'd guess that if you have money at all you're ahead of a couple billion people already. I crack up when I hear people from Boeing and Microsoft and Google and Nintendo talking about the 1%. Guys, in the Northwest Territories, you ARE the 1%. They think it's Bill Gates and Steve Allen. Yeah, they're the 0.00000001%. You're the 1%.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/s][/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 01:19 PM (8ifMA)

311 270 This is just an attempt to get more mileage out of bashing Sarah Palin.

Posted by: whoever at April 28, 2014 06:04 PM (pjMym)


Exactly.  And the NRO cowards chimes in too.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at April 28, 2014 01:20 PM (AWmfW)

312 Posted by: wheatie at April 28, 2014 06:18 PM (la7X9) Yeah I got to that in the next post.

Posted by: tsrblke (tablet) at April 28, 2014 01:21 PM (a8eFL)

313 @301 If you want offensive, check out Hillary's boneheaded take on the fishes and loaves parable and her presumption of equal billing with Jesus as a matter of faith. Posted by: Fritz ____________________ Sorta like our Low Information President's understanding of sin as being out of alignment with his own values. Sigh.

Posted by: Furious George at April 28, 2014 01:21 PM (P85Pz)

314 I spent an hour on the phone with obama's IRS today. It was like living in Apartheid. (see what I did there?)

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:21 PM (j4y5j)

315 Is hyperbole illegal now? Yes. Because hyperbole has never been used in any reference to anything having even the remotest connection to religion. "As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" Paul's Letter to the Galatians, Chapt. 5, Verse 12. "Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh." Paul's Letter to the Philippians, Chapt. 3, Verse 2.

Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at April 28, 2014 01:23 PM (1mtKP)

316 The reload delay for AoS is taking forever. It's like living in Apartheid every time I F5.

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:24 PM (j4y5j)

317 276 I never said Palin didn't take her Christianity seriously! I said she joked about a particular religious practice that she (and the denomination she currently adhers to) don't have the same regard for as others. I did the opposite of what Palin did, religion-wise: raised evangelical, converted to Catholicism. When I was a kid we held baptism differently and might've joked like Palin did---amongst ourselves. To make a joke like that in mixed company is rude, tasteless and potentially alienating. That's all.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at April 28, 2014 01:24 PM (lmPx4)

318 Guys, I'm a faithful ACE reader, a long-time opponent of people who freaked the eff out over Palin while loving Joe Biden, and someone who is not humorless. I do, as I wrote, have serious problems with Palin's rhetoric on baptism. Today has taught me that the only people who can match the awfulness of the folks who are deranged in their hatred of Palin are the folks who keep telling me to get the sand out of my vagina or whatever. (On that note, the number of people telling me that exact thing is really impressive. Doesn't even anger me so much as impress me.)

Posted by: Mollie at April 28, 2014 01:25 PM (wAC83)

319 noodles, in case you d/k

Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April 28, 2014 01:25 PM (j4y5j)

320 FWIW, I recently attended a Bible church whose welcome brochure mentioned Jesus 0 times. Yep, a Christian church left the J-man out of their lede. I guess ... so as not to scare off ... who, exactly?

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at April 28, 2014 01:25 PM (JOu1n)

321 Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at April 28, 2014 06:23 PM (1mtKP) . Or Martin Luther : "Think what you will. So make in your pants, hang it round your neck, then make a jelly of it and eat it like the vulgar sows and asses you are!" From Against Hanswurst, pg. 187 of Luther's Works, Vol. 41

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 01:27 PM (oMKp3)

322 FWIW, I recently attended a "Bible church" whose welcome brochure mentioned Jesus 0 times. Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at April 28, 2014 06:25 PM (JOu1n) FIFY

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 28, 2014 01:28 PM (yz6yg)

323 I do, as I wrote, have serious problems with Palin's rhetoric on baptism.

Today has taught me that the only people who can match the awfulness of the folks who are deranged in their hatred of Palin are the folks who keep telling me to get the sand out of my vagina or whatever. (On that note, the number of people telling me that exact thing is really impressive. Doesn't even anger me so much as impress me.)

Posted by: Mollie at April 28, 2014 06:25 PM (wAC83)


You must be a lucky person who "have serious problems" with that tame joke.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at April 28, 2014 01:28 PM (AWmfW)

324 Like this: 311 270 This is just an attempt to get more mileage out of bashing Sarah Palin. Posted by: whoever at April 28, 2014 06:04 PM (pjMym) Exactly. And the NRO cowards chimes in too. Posted by: Temper Tantrum at April 28, 2014 06:20 PM (AWmfW) Nope. Not that at all. I take no pleasure going after her and have spent five years going after her critics (because they're awful, typically, and I *loathe* the elite beltway perspective). I'll just throw this out there: I wrote what I wrote because I take the sacraments very seriously and I was appalled by what she said. She's not a delicate flower needing protection. She said what she said publicly and it struck me as so sacrilegious that it needed to be publicly spoken against. You don't have to agree with me. But you should not call people who share my views cowards or bashers. If you read my post you'd see that I was quite gentle, acknowledged that she's not sacramental, etc. And pointed to forgiveness at the end.

Posted by: Mollie at April 28, 2014 01:29 PM (wAC83)

325 People's political views are functions of deeper religious or convictions.  Anyone who wants to read an argument for this idea are welcome over at my blog.  truth-or-consequences.net

Posted by: Truth or Consequences at April 28, 2014 01:31 PM (zqXkX)

326 It seems more like a tweak of Muslims than anything else. It's along the same lines as Spike Jones' Der Fuhrer's Face or Team America's portrayal of Kim Jong-Il. It has nothing to do with Christianity or American government.

Posted by: rfichoke at April 28, 2014 01:31 PM (24sHa)

327 Today has taught me that the only people who can match the awfulness of the folks who are deranged in their hatred of Palin are the folks who keep telling me to get the sand out of my vagina or whatever. At least we ain't getting CEOs fired for political donations.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 01:31 PM (WPBmS)

328 326 It seems more like a tweak of Muslims than anything else. It's along the same lines as Spike Jones' Der Fuhrer's Face or Team America's portrayal of Kim Jong-Il. It has nothing to do with Christianity or American government. Posted by: rfichoke at April 28, 2014 06:31 PM ( my take on it too FWIW

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 01:33 PM (oMKp3)

329 I heard somewhere recently that if you own a home, have a car, and work at a job where you are regularly paid, and have a refrigerator with food in it, you are in the top 5% of the worlds population in terms of wealth. Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 06:15 PM (oMKp3) We've heard that, too. We're working on changing that. fOrWarD1111!!11!1!!11

Posted by: The Left at April 28, 2014 01:37 PM (bMkW7)

330 You don't have to agree with me. But you should not call people who share my views cowards or bashers. If you read my post you'd see that I was quite gentle, acknowledged that she's not sacramental, etc. And pointed to forgiveness at the end. I apologize. Usually Palin articles come from one place and are agenda-driven to bash the religious right, so it tends to get people on their hind legs. In this case I think it was an overreaction. I don't think you're a coward or basher.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 28, 2014 01:39 PM (WPBmS)

331 I don't think it was an expression of civil religion or really having to do with baptism. It was a joke down at an NRA convention, was it not.? It was in poor taste but it probably was a swipe at radical Islam. People can say anything about Christianity and get away with it in the US and other places but not do the same about Islam. I say this having a great appreciation for Baptism as well as an understanding of what it means in number of different denominations.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 28, 2014 01:42 PM (XyM/Y)

332 Nood

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at April 28, 2014 01:47 PM (ojnk6)

333 I just learned recently that Wendy is short Gwendolyn. What is Molly short for? --- Molybdenum.

Posted by: whoever at April 28, 2014 01:57 PM (pjMym)

334 "I'll just throw this out there: I wrote what I wrote because I take the sacraments very seriously and I was appalled by what she said." Good golly Miss Mollie. Enough already. "Come down from that cross honey, somebody needs the wood." Dolly Parton

Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at April 28, 2014 01:57 PM (1mtKP)

335 Geeze. No one is saying to burn Palin at the stake,

Sarah Palin's Barbarism.

Barbarism?

Do you know what Barbarism is?

Quit apologizing for NRO getting yet another case of the vapors over nothing.

Posted by: BHO [/i] [/b] at April 28, 2014 01:59 PM (5ikDv)

336 One of the alternative meanings of the word 'civil' is 'polite'. In this way, I cannot disagree that ALL religions should be polite. This means that "respect" should be a normative attribute of the majority of those people who hold that religious view. Persons who hold a viewpoint...religious or not...should be polite and respectful to other people. In that way they represent the best attributes of that viewpoint. Palin was not respectful of Muslim terrorists. I really cannot find much fault with that. If Muslim people AS A WHOLE were more respectful of other faiths/religions, then this world would not merely be a better place, but also their words and actions would speak well of the religious views that they hold. This is called "walking the walk as well as talking the talk".

Posted by: Geekasaurus at April 28, 2014 02:31 PM (P9M3r)

337 As you may know, Sarah Palin made a joke -- stating that if she were president, terrorists would receive waterboarding as their "baptism" -- and that's caused, as usual, all manner of commotions and consternations on the right. The platinum standard for causing much vapor lock: "My fellow Americans- I have just signed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union forever. The bombing begins in 5 minutes."

Posted by: Bill H at April 28, 2014 02:35 PM (3sZO1)

338 seriously and I was appalled by what she said.

Wait a sec, are you seriously coming here, here to THE MORONBLOG, to argue with THE MORONS about a joke.  Have ya never heard of don't encourage em?  or am I missing a sock again?

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 02:36 PM (DL2i+)

339 It was a joke down at an NRA convention, was it not.? It was in poor taste

Anything that is in nobodies poor taste isn't a joke, it's a sentence.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 28, 2014 02:39 PM (DL2i+)

340 Mollie , if you are still reading. I know that you were hurt by the casual way Sarah used her words, to the point that your heart was grieved. Can I suggest Matthew 18:15? Thanks for taking the time to read and contribute here. And oh, pay no attention to the heathens with no pants. Half of them are probably drunk.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2014 02:40 PM (oMKp3)

341 not one of the handwringers put half as much effort into denouncing the Rev. Wright ... f*ck'em ... if you can't take a joke then stfu ...

Posted by: JeffC at April 28, 2014 03:22 PM (TR6Cq)

342 This is for Molly, whose writing I almost always enjoy, and for the Nancy Boy Crowd over at NRO, whose bootlicking for a corrupt GOP Establishment. I've grown to enjoy less and less. Palin told a joke. She did so to bring into relief the cowardice and moral rot of a Political Class that feared calling a domestic terrorist attack (the Ft. Hood attack by Major Nidal Hassan) by its proper name. It is passing strange that there is probably more bandwidth being taken up by Palin's joke than by Hassan's terrorism, or by the campaign of terror against Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa and the Levant. As for the fauxtard outrage, I think most of the GOP conservatives who were " not amused" by Palin might probably resemble the same group who think that Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush are the bee's knees, but that's just me.

Posted by: section9 at April 28, 2014 03:30 PM (CUoon)

343 Can Sarah, and other Republicans for that matter, just stop going out of their way to give the media and the left so much material to work with? It's like she goes out of her way to say things that end up as fodder for criticism on the evening news. It's like she's the Lady Gaga of politics or something.

Posted by: MistressOverdone at April 28, 2014 04:40 PM (2/oBD)

344 >>What is Molly short for? >>Posted by: Soothsayer, corn bread assassin at April >>28, 2014 05:51 PM (j4y5j) 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine

Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 04:47 PM (roO4n)

345 I'll just throw this out there: I wrote what I wrote because I take the sacraments very seriously and I was appalled by what she said. *** You don't have to agree with me. But you should not call people who share my views cowards or bashers. If you read my post you'd see that I was quite gentle, acknowledged that she's not sacramental, etc. And pointed to forgiveness at the end. Posted by: Mollie at April 28, 2014 06:29 PM (wAC83) I'd refer you to my comments at #96. From my perspective, you and the others who took offense at Palin's comments based on a sacramental interpretation of "baptize" ignored the context of her comments. "Baptize" and "baptism" are used secularly on a regular basis (think "baptism by fire" for being thrown into a challenging endeavor without experience), and I saw no references to religion in the accounts that I've read. The literal definitions of "baptize" and "baptism" allow for secular applications of the words, and those applications don't implicate religion whatsoever. If the words had no meaning other than referring to a sacrament, or if Palin had been pounding a religious drumbeat, your interpretation would carry more weight, but, given the context and the historical - and quite proper - other meanings of the words, your interpretation simply holds no weight, IMO.

Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 05:03 PM (roO4n)

346 That was the worst comment in the history of comments, but I guess you get my point. I wish I could edit it for readability, though.

Posted by: Jazz at April 28, 2014 05:06 PM (roO4n)

347 Can Sarah, and other Republicans for that matter, just stop going out of their way to give the media and the left so much material to work with? Posted by: MistressOverdone at April 28, 2014 09:40 PM (2/oBD) Sarah Palin says what many of us think, but don't have the platform to say. She is fearless, unlike a lot of us aand more of us need to emulate that fearlessness. I attended the NRA convention. In regards to the waterboarding joke, maybe those whose sensibilities were offended by the thought of waterboarding ought to go through some of the donated gun display pieces that the NRA had available at the convention for public viewing. l They had Annie Oakley's guns, a revolutionary war gun, etc. But most emotional for me was the small display case that contained the mangled, burnt remains of the service revolver carried by a NewYork City police officer who ran into the Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001 to save others. He was killed when the building collapsed and days later, his gun was found in the rubble. His family donated it, along with his photo and his service patches to the NRA, so that others might understand the sacrifices of 9/11. Waterboarding helped to capture some of those responsible for 9/11 and the death of this police officers and thousands of others. http://home.nra.org/history/video/the-9-11-revolver

Posted by: Jen at April 28, 2014 05:38 PM (/CN/i)

348 Civil religion is the diet, decaf, low-fat, low-sodium, cardboard-tasting version, masquerading as the real, rich, delicious, full-fat Christianity. It's the culture normalizing Christianity, whereas Christianity ought to be radicalizing culture. I think this civil religion is the reason that so many young people leave the church. Christ called us to be radical, and people unaffiliated with the church just see these hypocrites spouting these meaningless platitudes, and think that's all that church is. The Pope is doing a lot to shatter those kinds of notions, and I will never be a Catholic, but I am so glad for all he's doing for the Christian church.

Posted by: Kshoosh at April 28, 2014 06:23 PM (j17tK)

349 Posted by: section9 at April 28, 2014 08:30 PM (CUoon)
=======
Thank you.  Your post puts the cold extraction of the Palin comment in Ace's post into context.  The Hassan passage is important.

I figured this topic would covered while I was at work. Baptism by fire is a literary device too.  Too bad so many hacks tried to shove Sarah Palin into the lion's den.  Does anyone recall Allahpundit's photoshop of Andrew Sullivan nailed to a cross?  One of the funniest things I've ever seen.  Lighten up, Molly.

Posted by: mrp at April 28, 2014 07:23 PM (JBggj)

350 Boehners about to screw everybody. Better complain about Sarah Palin Misbehavin' !

Posted by: Cackfinger at April 29, 2014 02:59 AM (BR5kP)

351 The Establishment is filled with gutless weenies and McCain.  That's why I support the quitter who's only accomplishment is helping McCain to get reelected!

Posted by: Shoot Me at April 29, 2014 06:12 AM (EQcfE)

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