November 30, 2014

Gun Thread : Range Report [Weirddave]
— Open Blogger

Gun of the Week

p64.jpg

Defensive Gun Use of the Week

Analysis: #Ferguson Grand Jury: NO Indictment In Michael Brown Shooting

I think we all know what happened, but if you want to review the documents, you can find them here.

Range Report

A few weeks ago, I took the family to the Delmarva Sporting Clays and Rifle Range, a beautiful range located about 50 miles past the Bay Bridge in Maryland Eastern Shore marshland. It was a crisp, clear beautiful Maryland fall day, the kind of day that reminds you why you live in a state with such a God-forsaken political climate. Gingy wanted to get her new Vortex Strikefire red/green dot sight mounted on her AR, and we figured it was time to introduce Little to his great granddad's Winchester Model 190.


winchester 190 .22.jpg


We got the AR sight zeroed, and really, it makes things too easy. At 100 yards you can reach out and touch a clay pigeon or a tennis ball with ridiculous ease. My friend has an AR with optics too (old eyes aren't what they used to be), and 200 yards is just as simple. Bang! Hit. Bang! Hit. Bang! Hit. Bang! Hit, and even when we missed it wasn't by much; considering the size of a tennis ball, we're probably good, anything we could foreseeable shoot at IRL is bigger than that.

Little is 10, and I've been drilling him on safety rules for a while now. He's knows them spot on, but real life hands-on is not a set of rules. After a careful course on how the rifle works and how to sight it,


Instruction.JPG


it was time to shoot. Little took to it like a duck to water, not just the .22, but he also didn't shy away from the AR-15, and was banging away at targets 300 yards away with a beautiful Mini-14 one of the other guys brought (he didn't hit anything but the berm, I haven't explained mil-dots to him yet, but he didn't shy away from it either. He did get a tennis ball at 100). After we'd been there for a bit he looked at me and said "I'm trying not to act like this is fun". Bless his heart, he didn't want me to think he wasn't taking it seriously because it was guns. I told him "It's supposed to be fun". "Really?". "Yes, really" and I ruffled his hair as a huge grin split his face. My heart about melted out of my chest at that moment.

I was most impressed at the handgun range. He's 10, has never shot anything before today, and he wanted to give Uncle Mark's Glock 19 a try. His hands are small so I had trouble finding him a comfortable and secure grip. It's his first time firing a handgun, and he scored 3 hits in 10 shots on the steel silhouette at 25 yards. That's.....pretty damn good if you ask me.

As the sun dipped towards the marsh, we policed our brass and recased the weapons. "RANGE COLD!" came the call from the rangemaster, and Little and I walked out to retrieve our targets. I had my hand over his shoulders, his was around my waist. The setting sun cast our shadows long across the berm. It was, without a doubt, one of the best moments of my life, not just a great daddy/Little moment, but somehow, a completely AMERICAN one.


LITTLE mini-14.JPG


Gunhinged-Three for one sale!


10-22.jpg


Full Auto.jpg


High rate of fire.jpg


GOTW answer

That's a Polish Radom P64 in 9X18. I've heard a lot of people talking about it as a reasonably priced CCW, and was wondering if any of the Horde had any experience with one. They seem to be running in the $200 range, which is pretty cheap. How hard is it to find 9X18mm Makarov?


The Law of Self Defense, as always a must read for gun owners.


Tweet me @weirddave0. Today's gun thread brought to you by clearing jams:


bullet-jam.jpg


On the other hand, Smith and Wesson obviously makes a high quality revolver.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 05:53 AM | Comments (222)
Post contains 680 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Still waiting for my Pistol Permit here in NJ

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 30, 2014 05:48 AM (nzKvP)

2 I can't believe everyone is in Church?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 30, 2014 05:54 AM (nzKvP)

3 AR15 = 15 boolits a minute? One boolit every 4 seconds? Black powder AR?

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 05:56 AM (FbzmK)

4 That .357 needs to increase its fiber intake or something.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 30, 2014 05:57 AM (MPK82)

5 Did anyone light the corgi lamp in the last thread?

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 05:57 AM (FbzmK)

6 I shot my father's .38 revolvers when I was in eight grade. Hated it. Long guns I could handle, including his 12ga shot gun on clay pigeons. In the eight grade. Next birthday was a 20ga single shot, and I got good with it. Next was an M-14 and I wish I still had that thing even if it did take all the fun out of deer hunting. Pistols don't work for me. Limp wristed, they say. I've always been the 90 pound weakling, but give me a long gun, and I'll take care of any problem that might pop up.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 05:57 AM (zsSoQ)

7 Ohh I have missed the gun threads!   Cool.

Posted by: Mrs. Ida Lowry at November 30, 2014 05:57 AM (8N+Kq)

8 Next was an M-14 and I wish I still had that thing even if it did take all the fun out of deer hunting. Pistols don't work for me. Limp wristed, they say. I've always been the 90 pound weakling, but give me a long gun, and I'll take care of any problem that might pop up. Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 10:57 AM (zsSoQ) The only guns I've shot in the last 55 years are the M-9 and the M-16. I shot much better with the M-16.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 30, 2014 05:58 AM (nzKvP)

9 Next was an M-14 and I wish I still had that thing even if it did take all the fun out of deer hunting. Pistols don't work for me. Limp wristed, they say. I've always been the 90 pound weakling, but give me a long gun, and I'll take care of any problem that might pop up. Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 10:57 AM (zsSoQ) The only guns I've shot in the last 55 years are the M-9 and the M-16. I shot much better with the M-16.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 30, 2014 05:58 AM (nzKvP)

10 Corgi lamp lit.

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 05:58 AM (FbzmK)

11 Heck of a thread, dave.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 05:59 AM (7Qicm)

12 Nevergiveup My sister carried a .357 magnum as her duty revolver. The convicts called her 'bitch with an attitude'. Go figure.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 06:01 AM (zsSoQ)

13 FUN FACT: A Ruger 10/22 can kill 22 people with 10 bullets only if the bullets are MIRV'd.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 30, 2014 06:01 AM (MPK82)

14 Pistols don't work for me. Limp wristed, they say. I've always been the 90 pound weakling, but give me a long gun, and I'll take care of any problem that might pop up. Get a .357 mag, run .38's. Pachmayr grips. Extra weight & rubber grips reduce felt recoil. Makes it easier to manage.

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 06:02 AM (FbzmK)

15 So my next purchase I will be looking for a smaller carry gun in 9mm, my current is a government size 1911 in 45acp.   I know there are lots of obvious choices and I am familiar with most of them.



So I really like the trigger on my 1911, and have ATC Gold trigger on my 308 sporting rifle, which is similar to the single action 1911 trigger - and I also like the positive manual safety of the 1911.



But I am also thinking getting a 1911 in a smaller footprint and in 9mm is not what I would want to do.



An ideas?

Posted by: Mrs. Ida Lowry at November 30, 2014 06:03 AM (8N+Kq)

16 Ironically, on the "Assault Weapons Deadliness Chart," I own two of them. 

I didn't realize that I was a mean, hatey assault weapon owner.  Heh. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:04 AM (7Qicm)

17 But I am also thinking getting a 1911 in a smaller footprint and in 9mm is not what I would want to do. An ideas? H&K USP Compact in whatever flavor you prefer. 9mm, .40, .45

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 06:05 AM (FbzmK)

18 I need the upgrade kit for my 10/22; mine will barely kill one squirrel per bullet. Related: do you think that woman is really that stupid and ill-informed, or does she know that she's a liar?

Posted by: PabloD at November 30, 2014 06:07 AM (roESk)

19 "do you think that woman is really that stupid and ill-informed, or does she know that she's a liar?"


I was trying to figure out if it was a spoof or something. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:08 AM (7Qicm)

20 18 I need the upgrade kit for my 10/22; mine will barely kill one squirrel per bullet. ---------- The trick is getting them to stay in single file while you line up your shot.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 30, 2014 06:09 AM (MPK82)

21 Law of Self Defense doesn't work.

URL is miscopied mashup of Ace's and Law Of Self Defense's.

Are those tweets serious?

Is someone THAT stupid? To write stuff like that or read stuff like that and believe it?

It's a wonder we're not all in camp somewhere if that's an indication of the stupidity or outright mendaciousness of the liberal anti gun crowd.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 30, 2014 06:10 AM (KK+mC)

22 " Today's gun thread brought to you by clearing jams:"


I've seen such pics before.  Does not the dramatically increased recoil and smoke not tip one off that something is wrong?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:11 AM (7Qicm)

23 rickb223 at November 30, 2014 11:02 AM If I had to carry a handgun, I would want to shoot a small caliber (.25, or .32) with a large frame, if they make such a thing. and work on shot placement.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 06:11 AM (zsSoQ)

24 In her little tweety picture, Jennifer is seen with a baby.  One can only hope it's someone else's child or that Jennifer is better informed about parenthood than she is about weapons.

Posted by: notThatChuck at November 30, 2014 06:14 AM (sgka3)

25 Law of Self Defense doesn't work.

URL is miscopied mashup of Ace's and Law Of Self Defense's.


Fixed. Pixy does weird things to quotation marks.

Posted by: weirddave at November 30, 2014 06:15 AM (KAmzK)

26 " (.25, or .32)"


There use to be, maybe still are, some revolver makers out there with .32HR.  Pretty hot little round.  Damn near bought one but couldn't find locally and bought the same frame in .38. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:15 AM (7Qicm)

27 and he scored 3 hits in 10 shots on the steel silhouette at 25 yards. First-timer, my ass!

Posted by: NYPD at November 30, 2014 06:16 AM (FcR7P)

28 I have the 9x18  Walter Ultra Police.  It will NOT shoot the Mark shells. 


And it's a Walter.   Bought it at flea market for $200.



http://tinyurl.com/oq7jdmr

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 30, 2014 06:17 AM (0FSuD)

29 At the moment 9Makarov is not hard to find, but I don't know if there is any US manufacturer other than Hornaday. The Russian and Ukrainian production may be interrupted and our great and glorious leader, Barak the conqueror, may also embargo importation to "cut off funding for the belligerents" at any time on a pretext.  As it is steel cased it is not re-loadable, and it is just off enough that 9mm parabellum will not subsitute.
Of course it may be that all ammo may be subject to restrictions because Lead or Global Warming, or Ferguson, or Deflation, or pot-legalization or CAFE standards, or some such nonsense.

Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 06:17 AM (t//F+)

30 I've got a 9x18 CZ82 and love it.  Built well.  If you get one, check out ammo from Buffalo Bore..  sooper ammo for the little caliber.   I read somewheres on the interweb that the 9x18 is an exact scaled-down copy of a .45 ACP,  Heh.


Posted by: Yip at November 30, 2014 06:18 AM (84SRe)

31 @29, US Ammo 9x18..  Buffalo Bore..  check 'em out.  I like them, but it's not plinking ammo...

Posted by: Yip at November 30, 2014 06:19 AM (84SRe)

32 Skandia: if you can find one, take a look at the Ruger SP 101 in .327 Fed. Mag. It will fire 4 different .32 caliber rounds, from the very weak through the more-than-adequate .327. You can start with the pop-gun cartridges and work your way up.

Posted by: PabloD at November 30, 2014 06:20 AM (roESk)

33 CBS Face the Nation all Blacks all whining.  Why does the Police Union have someone on these shows.



Mike was stoned.  Mike just robbed a convenience store.  Mike just gotten shot trying to steal a cops gun.



But according to Mike's lawyer, Mike is the victim.



Right got that?

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 30, 2014 06:20 AM (0FSuD)

34 My husband and I went to the Texas International Gun Festival near Liberty Hill a couple of weeks ago. A bunch of manufacturers were there who were set up to let everyone shoot the merchandise. It was tons of fun. Sig was really pushing their new p320 striker fired pistol, the one you can covert to other calibers and frame sizes. The FFL tent had a bunch of the 320c in 9mm, so along with a lot of other folks I bought one. It really does shoot nicely. I talked to the Tracking Point guys for quite a while. Those rifles are really expensive, but...man, they're amazing.

Posted by: Stacee onTV at November 30, 2014 06:21 AM (r6s/p)

35 If I had to carry a handgun, I would want to shoot a small caliber (.25, or .32) with a large frame, if they make such a thing. and work on shot placement. Posted by: Skandia Recluse Taurus catalog: http://bit.ly/1FI3jjl

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 06:21 AM (FbzmK)

36 I just bought a Ruger 10/22 for $99 on black Friday. I had no idea they were so efficient in their use of ammo.  I suppose that also reduces my carbon footprint. 

Posted by: Beer Ninja at November 30, 2014 06:21 AM (2r/HT)

37 P64 - I have one. Not a great CCW IMHO. Stock trigger pull is impossibly heavy on DA. This can be lightened by changing a spring with an aftermarket one. The other issue I have is that the safety detent/spring is worn and the safety turns itself on due to recoil after every round or so. Not at all good in a defense weapon! I have parts to repair that on order, so we'll see how it does. It's too heavy for too little capacity for CCW. That said, it's probably better than nothing and will be consigned to permanent residence in my truck assuming the reliability issues are resolved. Truck gets burglarized too often to keep anything nice in there and I go too many places I can't carry on person for work.

Posted by: mojojojo at November 30, 2014 06:21 AM (PDQ8J)

38 30 I've got a 9x18 CZ82 and love it. Built well. If you get one, check out ammo from Buffalo Bore.. sooper ammo for the little caliber. I read somewheres on the interweb that the 9x18 is an exact scaled-down copy of a .45 ACP, Heh.


Posted by: Yip at November 30, 2014 11:18 AM (84SRe)



The Police Ultra 9x18 is basically a 380 on steroids.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 30, 2014 06:22 AM (0FSuD)

39 "Liberal Hippie Queen" 's tweet has to be a joke, right? Because if it is, I like her sense of humor.

Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2014 06:22 AM (sdi6R)

40 The cops arrested a shoplifters last week who is an ex-con and was armed with an interesting weapon. He had a piece of pipe just the right size to hold a shotgun shell and another pipe big enough for the first pipe to slide into. The second pipe had a nail welded into it to act as a firing pin. He had apparently tried to fire it because the nail was bent. Sounds like an excellent suicide we won.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 30, 2014 06:22 AM (LImiJ)

41 34 is me. Posting on iPad pre-coffee intake.

Posted by: Stace at November 30, 2014 06:22 AM (r6s/p)

42 I've heard very good things about those Vortex Strikefire optics.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 30, 2014 06:23 AM (4ckfx)

43 Greetings: I grew up in the Bronx of the last '50s and '60s but was fortunate to be in a family that had a summer bungalow about 60 miles north in Putnam County. Thus, I had the benefit of both an urban culture and a country culture. Spending summers upstate, my friends were country boys, used to going into the woods, camping overnight, and having our days to ourselves with no threat of nearby adult supervision. Before long, I wanted to acquire the local accoutrements, guns and knives being my highest priorities. My city-girl mother wasn't having any of it; my father, born in Ireland and a WWII graduate, quickly became my only chance for a successful acquisition. Initially, I separated him from his "war-knife" and subsequently began working on him for a 22 caliber rifle. When my mother found out that my father was having me join a gun club in preparation for my new tool, he and my mother had an intensive dinner time discussion about the appropriateness of a relative youngster having his own firearm. My mother insisted that a firearm for a 12 year old no way to raise a child. My father's conclusionary statement was "I'm not raising a child; I'm raising a man."

Posted by: 11B40 at November 30, 2014 06:23 AM (yMbU8)

44 I just bought a Ruger 10/22 for $99 on black Friday. Looking at the stainless steel carbine model for $257.00

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 06:24 AM (FbzmK)

45 Does not the dramatically increased recoil and smoke not tip one off that something is wrong? Pretty sure it was done on purpose, especially since he had to reload to pull it off.

Posted by: t-bird at November 30, 2014 06:25 AM (FcR7P)

46 My mother insisted that a firearm for a 12 year old no way to raise a child. My father's conclusionary statement was "I'm not raising a child; I'm raising a man."

I like your dad. Never heard it put so succinctly, but that's my charge as a dad.

Posted by: weirddave at November 30, 2014 06:26 AM (KAmzK)

47 " Because if it is, I like her sense of humor."


Yeah, I'm thinking so. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:26 AM (7Qicm)

48 I mentioned last night that I've read that rifles were found after Gettysburg with numerous bullets stovepiped in the barrel like that. With all the noise, confusion, and panic of battle, it's easy to imagine soldiers frantically reloading and firing as fast as they could, without noticing that the bullets weren't going anywhere.

Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2014 06:26 AM (sdi6R)

49 "Pretty sure it was done on purpose"


There are other pics out there of barrels full of lead.  Shooter apparently oblivious. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:29 AM (7Qicm)

50 Actually, getting a bullet stuck is a pop-no-kick situation.  There is no real recoil since the bullet is not kicking the pistol back, just a bang.
Now, that the cylinder gap was belching a giant cloud of burning powder and burning off his fore-arm hair would have been a clue.


Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 06:29 AM (t//F+)

51 Posted by: t-bird at November 30, 2014 11:25 AM (FcR7P)

I hope it was mounted in a stand and fired remotely.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 30, 2014 06:30 AM (Zu3d9)

52 I mentioned last night that I've read that rifles were found after Gettysburg with numerous bullets stovepiped in the barrel like that. With all the noise, confusion, and panic of battle, it's easy to imagine soldiers frantically reloading and firing as fast as they could, without noticing that the bullets weren't going anywhere.

Oh, I can see the confusion, but how would that work with a muzzle loader? Did they have the Spencers at Gettysburg? Maybe Custer's cavlary? Where's Anna Puma when you need her!

Posted by: weirddave at November 30, 2014 06:30 AM (KAmzK)

53 Liberal Hippie Queen might just be that stupid and uninformed. I hear people repeated what they've heard and read in the media about "assault weapons." I try to enlighten them with actual facts, but they don't want to hear it. They just want to "stop the gun violence." Well, OK, but what about baseball bat violence?

Posted by: Guns Gardens and Yarn at November 30, 2014 06:31 AM (/K1AJ)

54 From the song "Cops and Robbers", originally recorded by Muddy Waters (I think). The song is a hoot:

An' then he said: "You see this rock I got in my hand?
This is a 38 pistol built on a 45 frame
It shoots tombstone bullets an' a ball and chain!"
He said: "I ain't tryin' to shake you up, but I just want you to know
If the cops start to crowding me in
You're gonna be the first to go!
You just drive on just like there ain't nothin' happenin'"
That's what he told me, he wouldn't even let me look back at nothin'


Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 30, 2014 06:31 AM (gvtTX)

55 My mother insisted that a firearm for a 12 year old no way to raise a child. My father's conclusionary statement was "I'm not raising a child; I'm raising a man." Posted by: 11B40 At 12, my dad was drining the family truck into town to the feed store. Yeah, small country town. Yeah, things were different in '47, but kids were raised to be more responible back then.

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 06:33 AM (FbzmK)

56 no, first primer failed or the nipple was plugged, and in the rush the next load was pushed down the barrel and a new cap put on, which also failed to ignite, and so on.

There were Spencers and Burnsides, but in this case I think it was just automatically shoving another load of powder and ball down on top of the previous one that didn't ignate.

Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 06:34 AM (t//F+)

57 In the spirit of defensive gun use, I bought a new one on Black Friday, a CZ 2075 Rami, which is 9 mm. Being California, there's a 10 day waiting period, so I'll pick it up on Dec. 9th. I plan to put night sights on it.

Posted by: Guns Gardens and Yarn at November 30, 2014 06:35 AM (/K1AJ)

58 AR15 = 15 boolits a minute? One boolit every 4 seconds? Black powder AR? Posted by: rickb223 at November 30, 2014 10:56 AM (FbzmK) Solar powered.

Posted by: The Solar Hat at November 30, 2014 06:35 AM (lN8KC)

59 Oh, I can see the confusion, but how would that work with a muzzle loader? You never pull the trigger. Panic mode, going thru the motions.

Posted by: rickb223[/s][/i][/b] at November 30, 2014 06:35 AM (FbzmK)

60 Surprisingly easy to double-charge a muzzle loader by mistake. Modern ramrods all get plimsoll-lines inscribed on them to indicate how far in they're supposed to go if the other-end-of-the-hole is empty like it's supposed to be.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 30, 2014 06:35 AM (LDGeY)

61 @56

Maybe so, in the heat of battle.  But as a muzzle-loader you know how far your rod should go when you're packing the load.  It doesn't sink right, uh-oh, something's not right. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:37 AM (7Qicm)

62 H&K USP Compact in whatever flavor you prefer.
9mm, .40, .45

Posted by: rickb223 at November 30, 2014 11:05 AM (FbzmK)

 

I have one in .357sig. I don't think they make them anymore. Yesterday I bought a S&W .380 Bodyguard with laser. Cute little gun, cost me $327.25 out the door.

Posted by: Bill R. at November 30, 2014 06:37 AM (jKUeC)

63 "I'm not raising a child; I'm raising a man." Today's theme. Would make a powerful thread all its own.

Posted by: t-bird at November 30, 2014 06:38 AM (FcR7P)

64 15 bullets per minute. OMG, that's like 38 people.

Posted by: --- at November 30, 2014 06:39 AM (MMC8r)

65 I shot my father's .38 revolvers when I was in eight grade. Hated it. Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 10:57 AM (zsSoQ) I actually started out with handguns. .22LR at first, but more powerful rounds soon enough. Still enjoy my custom Ruger Mark II target pistol (until þe olde boating accident).

Posted by: The Target Hat at November 30, 2014 06:40 AM (lN8KC)

66 Both Colt and Messrs Smith/Wesson offered .38 pistols on a .44 frame, not long before the .357 was invented, to handle powered-up police .38 rounds. I don't suppose police actually used tombstones with a ball and chain, though.

This is not to mention what offsawing, grip-taping back-alley gunsmiths from the Bulldog days might have been up to.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 30, 2014 06:40 AM (LDGeY)

67 "I'm not raising a child; I'm raising a man." Today's theme. Would make a powerful thread all its own. Posted by: t-bird at November 30, 2014 11:38 AM (FcR7P) Tell that to the feminists pining for castratos. Mood music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOyqdN2SaE

Posted by: I'm a Hat at November 30, 2014 06:41 AM (lN8KC)

68 Great story Dave, great that your son took right to it. I just got my 10 YO son a 10/22 (50th anniv edition) for his birthday. We have been working on the rules and will be at the range next weekend, looking forward to a similar experience. now his older sisters want in on the action, so they are next.

Posted by: JDub (was BunkerintheBurbs) at November 30, 2014 06:41 AM (X3xYu)

69 "(until þe olde boating accident)."


Of course.  You regaled us with the hairy tale of that dangerous boating accident.  You barely made it out alive. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:42 AM (7Qicm)

70 Why did no one tell me I could convert my AR-15 for only $169?

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at November 30, 2014 06:42 AM (/nR7C)

71 Apparently the dumb gun tweets were trolling.

Posted by: --- at November 30, 2014 06:42 AM (MMC8r)

72 I checked liberalhippiequeen's Twitter feed, and she's one of the science-deniers who still think Mike Browm was shot, with his hands up, for jaywalking.

Posted by: Stace at November 30, 2014 06:42 AM (r6s/p)

73 Then again, something must be wrong with mine because it's already shooting more than 15 rounds per minute. I need to get with Jennifer on the tweeter and figure it out.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at November 30, 2014 06:43 AM (/nR7C)

74 Gun site un-trolls liberalhippiequeen: http://tinyurl.com/nw5vx65

Posted by: --- at November 30, 2014 06:44 AM (MMC8r)

75 @73

That's kinda what I figured. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:45 AM (7Qicm)

76 I have had, and given to my daughters, a couple of these Radoms. My experience is that they dislike hollow point - never fed well. Your mileage may vary - different companies brought different lots over at different times...

Posted by: bt at November 30, 2014 06:45 AM (lawhU)

77 Then again, something must be wrong with mine because it's already shooting more than 15 rounds per minute. Take it off automatic and use the one-bullet clip. (Yes, I did that on purpose)

Posted by: t-bird at November 30, 2014 06:48 AM (FcR7P)

78 No, it's true.  You can kill 22 people with only 10 shots, but at least 11 of those die from outrage. 

Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2014 06:50 AM (Dj0WE)

79 If I'm carrying a 9mm for CC, I want something that will eat hollow points reliably.  Ball 9mm won't get the job done.

Posted by: butch at November 30, 2014 06:50 AM (0APJ3)

80 Picked up a neat little .32 auto a few weeks ago - a Deutsche Werke Ortgies. Fun facts:

1) It has no screws.
2) It was available in .32 and .380, with only the barrels being different. Even the magazines supposedly interchange. Mine is marked "7.65mm" on one side with seven witness holes, and "9mm Kurz" on the other with six holes.
3) Dillinger owned one (but Dillinger owned one of everything).
4) It cribbed much of its design from John Browning's FN Model 1910. Interestingly, the Ortgies was designed by a German gunsmith named Brauning - the Germanic form of Browning.
5) The grip safety is odd. When you depress it, it stays depressed until you release it with a button on the side of the frame. Seems to defeat the purpose of a grip safety.

I paid $200 for it, which seems good for a quality German-made interwar pistol in nice condition.

Pic:

http://tinyurl.com/okwwwbf


Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 30, 2014 06:51 AM (4ckfx)

81 " If I'm carrying a 9mm for CC, I want something that will eat hollow points reliably. Ball 9mm won't get the job done."


Agree. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 06:52 AM (7Qicm)

82 Anyone have thoughts to share on the Ruger LC9?

Posted by: Yep, I'm a nerd at November 30, 2014 06:53 AM (FCgaq)

83 Shot my first AR last week. The biggest things I noticed were: It smells way different than a handgun (maybe a consequence of having my nose on the same side as the ejection port); how dang noisy the buffer spring is every time it's fired.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at November 30, 2014 06:56 AM (PGXA8)

84 I have one of the older LC9 pistols. Great for CC; it's practically invisible when carried in my Crossbreed holster, even under a dress shirt. The trigger pull is horribly long and heavy; apparently, they fixed this with the new striker-fired LC9s model.

Posted by: PabloD at November 30, 2014 06:57 AM (Ez50H)

85 Once upon a time I was teaching myself how to shoot black powder with a friend who had similar training.
He had seen another guy pour powder directly from a powderhorn into the the bore of a muzzle-loader, which then ignited and turned the powder horn into a rocket that exploded, so he was leery of hot sparks in the barrel. He had done some research and determined that the way to avoid that was to blow down the barrel prior to dumping your next charge. 
What did I  know?

So, there I was on the firing line at a range, we had been trying this move to see if it kept us from blowing up.
I had just fired a ball down range, I had grounded the butt, I had the barrel by the muzzle and had taken a deep breath and started to blow down the barrel.....

And the bastard friend of mine fired a shot out of his rifle next to me.

My first thought was, "I'm dead. I just shot my head off with a rifle." 
I was surprisingly calm for a fresh suicide.

My second thought was, "How am I thinking without a brain?"

Once the shakes went away it was funny as Hell.

We decided that blowing down the muzzle was not necessary and might not add to safety.

Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 06:58 AM (t//F+)

86 84 -

I have an SR9.  Ruger has been making terrific 9s  that generally cost a lot less than the more popular models  for a long time.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2014 06:58 AM (Dj0WE)

87 Great. First gun thread in weeks and I have to go to the in-laws now. Have fun without me, morons.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at November 30, 2014 07:00 AM (4ckfx)

88 ". Ball 9mm won't get the job done." I agree with the condition that the job is to stop the threat as soon as is possible. An FMJ to the heart is a mortal wound, but it may take some time to keep the bad guy from doing the bad thing.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at November 30, 2014 07:02 AM (PGXA8)

89 "Once upon a time I was teaching myself how to shoot black powder with a friend who had similar training."


Black powder is a practice.  You always learn something new if you don't blow yourself up.  There are ball screws (heh, I know) for a reason. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 07:03 AM (7Qicm)

90 Food for thought,
Back in the day a man carried a long gun and a sidearm in same caliber , usually 44-40...

Today a wide choice is available in 38/357..45, 44mag

worth the investment if you can afford the pair.

Posted by: Old Chester at November 30, 2014 07:03 AM (/WmRg)

91 I have an LC9s. If you buy one be sure to buy the s model. It is an upgrade from the LC9. It is striker fired rather than an internal trigger mechanism. There is also a plastic part in the 9 that has been replaced by a metal one in the s. The biggest complaint I've seen about the LC9 is the long trigger pull and you can't tell when it resets. I like mine and I've put over 500 rounds of good ammo through it without any kind of misfire.

Posted by: Bill R. at November 30, 2014 07:04 AM (jKUeC)

92 kindltot, had no one fellow-'spalined what a powder-measure was, or was for?

The proper feeding of the muzzle might make a great thread some time. For a device that seems so simple, there's an inordinate number of ways to hurt yourself with one. And I have only met one shooter ever who shot muzzle-loaders from old muzzle-loader tradition in his family. Everyone else picked them up after learning on "modern" firearms.

Fifty years ago, when Civil War re-enactors brought them back, they had become just about unknown except for some mountaineers. And that's just what this guy was.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 30, 2014 07:04 AM (LDGeY)

93 I own the Polish P-64. It's a serviceable pistol if you're willing to do a little work on it. The double-action is ridiculously, impossibly heavy, so you have to replace the mainspring. Once you do, it becomes a nice little carry piece. I prefer the Makarov, myself. I replaced the Bulgarian innards with more finely made East German precision parts, replaced the springs, did a fluff and buff. I gave it to my daughter and her husband so they would have a reliable and accurate home defense weapon--that, and my daughter fell in love with it at the range. It's amazingly accurate and seems just right for people with small hands. However, out of all of the commie milsurp pistols I own, my absolute favorite is the Polish Tokarev. I bought it in perfect, unused or nearly unused condition. I put a compensator on it to reduce the muzzle flip for which Toks are notorious and consider it the most reliable and nearly the most accurate guns I own. Tokarev essentially adopted and modified Browning's 1905 design. It feels foreign in the hand at first because of the grip angle, but once you're used to it, you don't want to go back. I can consistently hit fist-sized center mass groups at 15 yards with it. The Tokarev would be my go-to piece if the shit ever truly does hit the fan.

Posted by: troyriser at November 30, 2014 07:05 AM (ptcFO)

94 The multiple loaded rifles found at Gettysburg are generally attributed to weaponless soldiers picking up a rifle they found and trying to use it.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 30, 2014 07:07 AM (RcpcZ)

95 48 I mentioned last night that I've read that rifles were found after Gettysburg with numerous bullets stovepiped in the barrel like that. With all the noise, confusion, and panic of battle, it's easy to imagine soldiers frantically reloading and firing as fast as they could, without noticing that the bullets weren't going anywhere.
--------------------

The battlefield museum has a damaged muzzle-loading rifle with 3 balls one atop the other, visible in the barrel breech. Since there was no way to check the rifle other than firing it, the exhibit explained that the soldier who owned the weapon had nervously loaded it repeatedly.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 30, 2014 07:07 AM (/mTq0)

96 The blown-out S&W is a good lesson though. If I am ever at the range and there is noise but no hole in the target, better check the weapon. Probably won't save me against goblins or zombies though... 

Posted by: exdem13 at November 30, 2014 07:10 AM (/mTq0)

97 Sam Fadala has written some very good books on black powder. There are now a lot of original books on the internet about shooting muzzle-loaders, things like military training manuals.  But, in 1992 when that happened there was a lot of word-of-mouth stuff that people sort of knew, unless you were near a specialty library.

Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 07:13 AM (t//F+)

98 The expected rate of fire for the civil war was (i've read) something like 6-7-8 rounds per minute and I just can not imagine reloading that quickly. The complaint about rifled barrels the sharpshooters used was they could not be reloaded quickly, and became obstructed with powder residue and had to be cleaned much sooner than a smooth bore.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 07:14 AM (zsSoQ)

99 "there is noise but no hole in the target, better check the weapon."


Finger to nose. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 30, 2014 07:14 AM (7Qicm)

100 Wow, Jennifer and Liberal Hippie Queen! That's some weapons grade stupid you got there. You should be required to have a permit to be able to operate that.

Posted by: flounder at November 30, 2014 07:17 AM (sDapq)

101 @99 is right, and Lemme T'row Dis Out Dere in case we don't ever get back to the topic:  black powder and re-loader's powder are NOT THE SAME THING, and it is NEVER safe to mix any kind of pistol, "ball," shotgun, or smokeless powder with black powder to use in a muzzle-loader.

There are modern powders specially made to use in place of traditional black powder. "Triple-Seven" is the best known. They will be clearly marked as black-powder substitutes. No other powder sold for re-loading is safe. No mixture is safe. Keep that in mind as you teach yourself muzzle-loading by word of mouth. 

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 30, 2014 07:17 AM (LDGeY)

102 Woohoo!!! T is buying me a Dan Wesson .45 for Xmas/anniversary I knew she was a keeper

Posted by: policiadearmadajose at November 30, 2014 07:19 AM (oo7dW)

103 Those tweets are not satirical? *weeps*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 30, 2014 07:19 AM (bIfOp)

104 I think the musket was about 5 shots a minute, but the rifled musket was about 3.  The benefit was that the rifle could shoot accurately at 3 times the range

Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 07:21 AM (t//F+)

105 Don't put too much faith in that S&W barrel full of bullets. Squib loads will never blow the barrel.

Posted by: Frank at November 30, 2014 07:22 AM (531J8)

106 "If I had to carry a handgun, I would want to shoot a small caliber (.25, or .32) with a large frame, if they make such a thing.

and work on shot placement.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at November 30, 2014 11:11 AM (zsSoQ)"



There are a lot of steel frame .32 pistols that were made in Europe from the turn of the century up through the 1970s.  One pistol that might surprise you with its light recoil is a .45 caliber Webley revolver.  There are a lot of them that were modified by having the cylinder cut so that they could fire .45 ACP ammunition in half moon or full moon clips.  The weight of the large steel revolver does a pretty good job of taming the .45 recoil.



I should also point out that my wife shot a lot of different pistols, .22, .32, .380, .38 and 9mm but when she shot a 1911 .45 she decided that was it.  She can keep all of them in the 8 ring of a silhouette at 15 yards and all on the paper at 25 yards.  She is 5'2''.  Go to a range that rents guns and lets you shoot a variety of hand guns during a session.  You might be surprised by what you like.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at November 30, 2014 07:22 AM (PD6iL)

107 After 200 rounds at 25yds with my little V10 yesterday I've discovered I can easily hit you if you are a target frame If I'm aiming at you then you're pretty much safe

Posted by: policiadearmadajose at November 30, 2014 07:22 AM (oo7dW)

108 Did you include the broom stick of the wicked witch of the west in your application? The horn of dagoth? Staff of Ra? Its Jersey, they're going to want them.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 30, 2014 07:23 AM (FMbng)

109 Whoa My tag..... 007 duh Winning

Posted by: policiadearmadajose at November 30, 2014 07:23 AM (oo7dW)

110 A minute is longer than you think. Sit somewhere quiet and start the timer.

Posted by: Bob Belcher at November 30, 2014 07:24 AM (3QAtO)

111 Ok lets try that again- Still waiting for my Pistol Permit here in NJ Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 30, 2014 10:48 AM (nzKvP) Did you include the broom stick of the wicked witch of the west in your application? The horn of dagoth? Staff of Ra? Its Jersey, they're going to want them.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 30, 2014 07:24 AM (FMbng)

112
Okay -- here's a helpful tip for those with cap and ball revolvers.

Take the grips off and throw it in the dishwasher to clean it. Easy-peasy.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 30, 2014 07:24 AM (RcpcZ)

113 "106 I think the musket was about 5 shots a minute, but the rifled musket was about 3. The benefit was that the rifle could shoot accurately at 3 times the range

Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 12:21 PM (t//F+)"



The rate of fire for rifled and smooth bore muskets was the same.  About 3 rounds per minute for average soldiers and about 4 rounds per minute for well trained troops.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at November 30, 2014 07:25 AM (PD6iL)

114 That "Law of Self Defense" site has a video of a weaponless fight involving 3 men that fully explains why Michael Brown got shot.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 30, 2014 07:25 AM (/mTq0)

115 112 A minute is longer than you think. For those of us with kids, a minute alone is divine

Posted by: policiadearmadajose at November 30, 2014 07:26 AM (oo7dW)

116 Thank heaven for gun threads.  A moron can only look at so many picture and crabopus threads, amirite?


I'm getting me one of these puppies when I can. I want something I can actually use if needed!  See 5:50 mark.


http://tinyurl.com/pdr68rs







Posted by: 2L at November 30, 2014 07:29 AM (TaO1J)

117 Obnoxious, I've heard different, but I have not been able to even get to that low end reloading speed, so I can't tell.  Capping was supposed to add to the reloading time, as was forcing a mine down a fouled barrel.


Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 07:31 AM (t//F+)

118 I have a Winchester 190 and 290. Wonderful rifles and very nicely priced on the used market.

Posted by: dc at November 30, 2014 07:33 AM (b8fB0)

119 17 But I am also thinking getting a 1911 in a smaller footprint and in 9mm is not what I would want to do. An ideas? I haven't got my CC yet. I'm still a little too paranoid w/the current Feds. BUT, if/when I do, I'm thinking a hammerless .38 revolver is the way to go for an everyday carry. It's on the light side for stopping power, but the ease of use seems to make sense. Thoughts?

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 30, 2014 07:35 AM (5buP8)

120 For some really nice and accurate copies of original Pennsylvania rifles , Hawkens too , check out The Log Cabin Shop . They have a web site . I have one of their flintlocks , that I made from individual components . Super accurate , mine has a .45 cal Green Mountain barrel that's 42" long and shoots into the same hole at 50 yds . Well , it did when my eyes were younger . They're fun to put together if you have some moderate ability with your hands . They are strictly round ball rifles .

Posted by: awkward davies at November 30, 2014 07:36 AM (Z+Mqb)

121 "there is noise but no hole in the target, better check the weapon."

In my case it's usually operator error.

Posted by: weirddave at November 30, 2014 07:37 AM (KAmzK)

122 117 112 A minute is longer than you think.

For those of us with kids, a minute alone is divine
-----------------
For gamer morons, a minute is 1 combat turn, divided into 6 melee rounds, 10 seconds each. A goblin or zombie has at least 6 chances to do you harm in a minute's time. It's a good thing the widow had her revolver available at round #1, right? 'Cause the police showed up at about the 6 minute mark...35 melee rounds later!

Posted by: exdem13 at November 30, 2014 07:38 AM (/mTq0)

123 Out here in the boondocks 9X18 Makarov ammo is available over the counter at the gun  stores in the bigger towns, so probably you'll have no trouble finding some.

I have a Hungarian PA-63 and a Russian Makarov. Both are better than nothing for CC if you can't carry a pistol that fires real cartridges. My understanding is that Makarov cartridge is a little hotter than the more common (in this country) .380 but that's just what I hear. Of the two pistols, the PA-63 double action trigger is like what others are saying about the P64 - it's hilariously bad. The Mak, on the other hand, is really quite a good pistol. A little fat in the grip for concealment but reliable and surprisingly accurate for what it cost, probably because of the fixed barrel design ripped off from the Walther. Can't say I've ever shot a Radom, so I don't have an opinion.

Posted by: Joel at November 30, 2014 07:39 AM (Tw56p)

124 Delmarva Sporting clays is a nice range. Was about ten minutes from my old house. Shot my first pistol there, a Versa 9mm UC Thunder. Took weekday off from work to go and shoot my Glock 21 for the first time, had the pistol range all to my lonesome. Was a good day. On a side note for anyone living in the peoples republic of MD. Even though the libtards banned AR's here, you can still buy them as long as it has a heavy barrel on it.

Posted by: prophet at November 30, 2014 07:39 AM (OQ8CF)

125 122 For some really nice and accurate copies of original Pennsylvania rifles , Hawkens too , check out The Log Cabin Shop . They have a web site . I have one of their flintlocks , that I made from individual components . Super accurate , mine has a .45 cal Green Mountain barrel that's 42" long and shoots into the same hole at 50 yds . Well , it did when my eyes were younger .
They're fun to put together if you have some moderate ability with your hands . They are strictly round ball rifles .
--------------------
Kits along that line used to be sold in department store catalogs when I was a kid in the Seventies. Then they disappeared in the mid-Eighties. 

Posted by: exdem13 at November 30, 2014 07:39 AM (/mTq0)

126 I assembled a 10/22 out of a collection of non-Ruger parts and was able to get just about 0.5 MOA out of it.  And that was with a suppressor.  Of course, the range is fairly limited, but it has its uses. 

I figure I'll hold onto it, for the burning times.

Posted by: Phinn at November 30, 2014 07:39 AM (i5GO4)

127 The PA-64 is a utilitarian choice for CCW...

9*18 is less hard to find than it was 10 years ago...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 07:41 AM (/4AZU)

128 I found this article interesting a while ago. Thought I would toss it in the mix today. Planners Use Gun Trusts to Smooth Firearms Transfer Typically set up as a revocable living trust http://tinyurl.com/p48258z wsj - hopefully not behind firewall

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 30, 2014 07:42 AM (IXrOn)

129 Pardon me if I missed the answer to this in the comments, but what is the model number of that S&W .357 with the multiple rounds jammed in the barrel? Is it an 8 shot revolver? Or was somebody dumb (and lucky) enough to reload and keep firing to "clear the jam"?

Posted by: TiminVirginia at November 30, 2014 07:43 AM (KA9LP)

130 Bersa not versa, stupid autocorrect. It also tried to change Glock to block, which might not be entirely incorrect

Posted by: prophet at November 30, 2014 07:44 AM (OQ8CF)

131 131 Posted by: TiminVirginia at November 30, 2014 12:43 PM (KA9LP)

It may have been a 627, blued like that it could be a model 27 that yes the idiot would have had to have reloaded.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 07:47 AM (/4AZU)

132 When a gun would have come in handy. Whassup Bro? Marian County Florida School Thug Caught on Tape (Video) http://tinyurl.com/nom7zdr Warning: Feral animal alert. I cannot tell if it's male or female.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 30, 2014 07:49 AM (IXrOn)

133 The Log Cabin Shop has some of the Lyman kits but their in house kits are much nicer with higher quality components and great variety . Build a real Lancaster or Berks county rifle using their parts . Beautiful rifles . I think the founder of that shop was Wes Kindig . He wrote the book on original Pennsylvania rifles and the mostly German gunsmiths that made them .

Posted by: awkward davies at November 30, 2014 07:50 AM (Z+Mqb)

134 Here is my one and only experience with black powder. Summer, 1979, I'm 12 years old. Vacationing at my grandparent's cabin in Maine. I'm digging around in the attic when I find an old powder horn full of black powder. Oooh! Fun!

Now, I was no idiot. I had carefully studied hours and hours of the finest, most instructional cartoons available to man. I know how black powder works; you leave a trail of it on the ground and when you light it it burns like a fuse. Cool as fuck!

So I go out into the street, write my name with the powder, bend down, and touch a match to one end of the cursive "Dave".

See, here's the thing. Black powder doesn't burn like a fuse. Black powder EXPLODES.

A moment of silence. I'm thinking whatever is the 12 year old equivalent of Dafuq? Dad comes running over and starts beating me on the head (my hair was on fire).

Dafuq?

And the comes the pain. And the screams. My 9 year old sister honestly thought I was dying. To the ER!

2nd degree burns across my face, I had to spend the rest of the summer under a big old straw hat to protect my face from the sun.

So yea, black powder. Not a fan.

Posted by: weirddave at November 30, 2014 07:51 AM (KAmzK)

135 Luv my MAK.  Rebarreled it to .380.  Removed the tiny rear sight and dove-tailed in a simple Baretta sight.  Machined out the front sight and replaced it with Baretta.  Changed out all the springs and polished the important internal parts.  Couple of thousand rounds thru it and never a failure to feed, fire, or fling.

Next is a coating with dura-kote or something like that.

Posted by: trainer at November 30, 2014 07:53 AM (7EbAY)

136 where's the nfl thread...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 30, 2014 07:54 AM (IXrOn)

137 136 Posted by: weirddave at November 30, 2014 12:51 PM (KAmzK)

Fun with explosives...

of course you could try pyrodex WD...

just saying...

where there's a will there's a way.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 07:56 AM (/4AZU)

138 137 Posted by: trainer at November 30, 2014 12:53 PM (7EbAY)

My FEG P9rk has undergone similar metamorphoses....

only fear is a lack of parts since the armory went tits up.

The Maks redone to .380 are as good as a Mustang by Colt if you have a good smith.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 07:57 AM (/4AZU)

139 Weird dave , to add to your black powder woes , that powder horn you found might have been worth big bucks . Hope someone in your family still has it .

Posted by: awkward davies at November 30, 2014 07:58 AM (Z+Mqb)

140 I haven't got my CC yet. I'm still a little too paranoid w/the current Feds. BUT, if/when I do, I'm thinking a hammerless .38 revolver is the way to go for an everyday carry. It's on the light side for stopping power, but the ease of use seems to make sense. Thoughts?

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 30, 2014 12:35 PM (5buP




Go to a gun store with attached range and fire as many different guns as you can. Find the one that you like to shoot and then learn how to carry it. The important part is finding the one that you will actually carry, it doesn't do you any good in the gun safe when you need it on your person.


I like my Glocks, but that's probably due to the fact the first semi-auto I had was a Glock. I know people who don't like the Glock grip angle but do fine with Sig. Others will swear by the 1911, still others will swear at them. Find the one that you will shoot and carry, gun selection is an intensely personal choice.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 07:58 AM (6fyGz)

141 haven't got my CC yet. I'm still a little too paranoid w/the current Feds. BUT, if/when I do, I'm thinking a hammerless .38 revolver is the way to go for an everyday carry. It's on the light side for stopping power, but the ease of use seems to make sense. Thoughts? Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 30, 2014 12:35 PM (5buP I think whatever you are comfortable with that you feel you will carry consistently is what you want to go with. I typically carry a 9mm with a .380 as backup. There are times that due to what I am wearing(this is more of a challenge as a female) that the .380 is the primary, as it is smaller and easier to conceal. I don't have a .45 that is easily concealable, although I might cure that eventually with a short barreled .45 that I can carry under a coat. Evaluate what your typical dress will be for the majority of your carrying time and then determine what gun you can realistically conceal. There are many options out there for holsters, some you'll like and some you won't. I personally won't carry anything that doesn't have an external safety. (I carry semi autos, not revolvers.) You may not feel that way. All these details should be worked out in your mind ahead of deciding to carry. And don't be surprised if you change your mind once you get your cc permit, you may find that what you thought would work is annoying as all get out and you need to change to a different style or size of handgun, holster, etc.

Posted by: Jen the original at November 30, 2014 07:58 AM (/s7L7)

142 Re: Multiple loads and Gettysburg: I have read of after action studies that show that a very high percentage of soldiers in combat either never fire their weapons at the enemy, or intentionally fire into the ground or over the enemy's heads. This was particularly true when the soldiers were facing each other across open fields. The prohibition against killing humans can be so strong that even when faced with near-certain death, men won't kill other men. Even when being over-run. With muzzle-loaders involved, this can mean huge numbers of loads being packed without there ever being an attempt to fire.

Posted by: Sharkman at November 30, 2014 08:02 AM (9ci75)

143 Now, I was no idiot. I had carefully studied hours and hours of the finest, most instructional cartoons available to man.


And who are you, who are so wise in the ways of Science?

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 08:03 AM (6fyGz)

144 18 -- PabloD -- Hmm... if they're the typical bubble-headed, irrational, anti-gun fems, then they don't know jack shit about the weapons they're commenting on.

People like that will glom onto the most dire factoids they can web-search; and, like as not, post things written by trolls, or anti-gun wackadoodles.

The average reader here[/]b would know someone was trying punk them, or spewing shit out their asses...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:03 AM (/mTq0)

145 Ooops...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:04 AM (/mTq0)

146 Oh... okay. That works out... I did wanna emphasize that last part anyway.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:05 AM (/mTq0)

147 "Ball 9mm won't get the job done." A few million dead servicemen, partisans, terrorists, and civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time beg to differ.

Posted by: Gary "Slightly Ventilated" Gilmore at November 30, 2014 08:06 AM (uN4Ye)

148 Wait , are you guys saying that Yosemite Sam was not a master of black powder technology ?

Posted by: awkward davies at November 30, 2014 08:07 AM (Z+Mqb)

149 The P64 is a great pocket pistol. A functional clone of the PPK (not internally), it's an all steel pistol the size of the palm of your hand, so it conceals in the front pocket of your pants easily. Along with a tactile loaded chamber indicator, it has a safety that decocks, hammer blocks and captures the firing pin. I have zero qualms about carrying it Cond2 next to my nuts. They are available at Classic this weekend for $219 with two mags. http://is.gd/3JGSp0 It has a stiff DA trigger and a sharp recoil which might be bothersome at the range but you wouldn't even notice either in a self-defense situation.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 08:08 AM (rwI+c)

150 On the plus side, that experience has allowed me to reply with a deadpan "I blew my face off" to any " why are you so ugly?" taunts ever since.

Posted by: Weirddave at November 30, 2014 08:08 AM (KAmzK)

151 you may find that what you thought would work is annoying as all get out and you need to change to a different style or size of handgun, holster, etc.

Posted by: Jen the original at November 30, 2014 12:58 PM (/s7L7)



I have an SOB holster for the Glock 36. I wanted to like it really really bad. I absolutely hate it, mostly because it requires you to turn your hand 180 degrees away from what is even comfortable in order to grab the grip, and the grip is pointed up (gun is in a V shape) instead of down. Absolutely the most horrible holster I own...for me. Others may be OK with it.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 08:08 AM (6fyGz)

152 149 Posted by: Gary "Slightly Ventilated" Gilmore at November 30, 2014 01:06 PM (uN4Ye)

9mm ball has a sub 60% one shot stop rating in a 4" or less barrel....

http://tinyurl.com/qyjwpho


Make it JHP and it goes up to 80%....

not a negligible increase in lethality.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 08:09 AM (/4AZU)

153 Here's my free to make non-printing Koozie holster for the P64 http://is.gd/KqTb86

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 08:10 AM (rwI+c)

154 Concealment wise, I can pack a J frame Smith with "banana grips" (a classic, slightly oversized but utterly smooth and seamless shape), during the peak of summer. Khaki shorts, (they're hideous!), aloha shirt, and a good pancake or IWB holster. Disappears from view and from "feel", no bother at all. Llama IIIa (essentially a Colt Mustang) comes close, but J rules the day. Banana grips: http://tinyurl.com/ksr4zy4

Posted by: Jim at November 30, 2014 08:10 AM (RzZOc)

155 Any of the other Makarov derivations are better choices than the Polish version. The DA trigger pull is approx. 20 lbs. and not smooth in either DA or SA. The trigger reset spring on mine broke after firing ten rounds. Fortunately the dealer took it back and I replaced it with a CZ-82. This is a nice pistol for similar money. It holds ten rounds in a staggered magazine (the CZ-83 is the same weapon chambered in .380 ACP if you prefer a slightly less powerful but more common caliber.)  At this point in history though, dealers are overstocked and prices are low. Check out newer designs in more powerful calibers which are selling for very little more, such as the Walther PPX, 4" bbl., 16 rd mag. for around $280 on some web sites.

Posted by: PPs43 at November 30, 2014 08:13 AM (gs8t9)

156 so it conceals in the front pocket of your pants easily.



Please please please, for the love of JMB please tell me you are carrying this in a pocket holster.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 08:13 AM (6fyGz)

157 Lie if you must.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 08:13 AM (6fyGz)

158 23 -- SR -- If you're gonna go that route, (depending on how jack you want to shell out) go get a S.n.W M&P 22, or any of the M1911 clones chambered for .22cal.

.25 cal ammo is for little girls, and .32 auto ammo doesn't exactly grow on trees (not because of scarcity, but because hardly anybody buys it nowadays).

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:13 AM (/mTq0)

159 Here's my free to make non-printing Koozie holster for the P64 http://is.gd/KqTb86

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 01:10 PM (rwI+c)




thank you.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 08:14 AM (6fyGz)

160 Have a 10/22 and a Reminton 66. Must say that while the 10/22 has the fire power, the Reminton is a better gun in some respects. Quieter, more accurate iron sights, needs less cleaning.

Posted by: Pat at November 30, 2014 08:15 AM (Ks6h9)

161 48 I mentioned last night that I've read that rifles were found after Gettysburg with numerous bullets stovepiped in the barrel like that. With all the noise, confusion, and panic of battle, it's easy to imagine soldiers frantically reloading and firing as fast as they could, without noticing that the bullets weren't going anywhere. Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2014 11:26 AM (sdi6R) Happened at every battle. Crap QC on cartridge manufacture, wet or damp conditions, stress ...

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2014 08:17 AM (7YFuT)

162 The "cartridges" at Gettysburg were made of paper.

When brass cartridges made the paper rolling machines obsolete, some clever fellows bought those up and invented the mass-produced cigarette.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at November 30, 2014 08:20 AM (LDGeY)

163 160. While that was definetly true a couple years ago, the .32 is roaring back. I see ammo in all major sports big box stores. And as commenter 32 said ( how is that for irony) the 32 Fed, and also the 32 H&R has a lot to do with it. These are perfectly good defense rounds.

Posted by: Pat at November 30, 2014 08:22 AM (Ks6h9)

164 A friend has an naa 32, seems to go bang reliably. Not sure about the CEP or target effects.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2014 08:24 AM (7YFuT)

165 Wait , are you guys saying that Yosemite Sam was not a master of black powder technology ? Posted by: awkward davies at November 30, 2014 01:07 PM (Z+Mqb) He ain't no Nimrod...

Posted by: Elber Fudd at November 30, 2014 08:26 AM (lN8KC)

166 157 -- PPs43 -- Ditto... not cap on the Poles, but their Mak clones are bottom-of-the-barrel stuff (IMO).

The grand prize would be an East German Mak... the best of the lot, and the CZ-82 is the best of the high-cap Mak 9mm's.

And as to the availability of 9mm Mak ammo, I've never had an issue finding it; it's just a question of quality. The DDR surplus is good (and cheap), the best ammo available is Sellier-n-Bellot (for any caliber).

http://tinyurl.com/lxbxdts

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:27 AM (/mTq0)

167 Oh, yeah, smart guys, well, it was a firearms expert named Ralphie who told me that when it is equipped with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time, any one-eyed ten year old boy can unwrap a Ruger 10/22 and achieve a kill ratio of 22 kills for every 10 shots.  Hence, the name.

So, there.


Posted by: Liberal Hippie Queen at November 30, 2014 08:27 AM (4HYng)

168 I will admit to squibbing one of my P64's while doubletapping with freakin Silver Bear ammo for range time. The first shot seemed off but I was already firing the second round as that registered. Bulged the barrel a fair bit. Luckily I had a spare barrel. In my pocket it's loaded with PPU brass with which I have never had a misfire, failure to feed or eject.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 08:30 AM (rwI+c)

169 45 -- t-bird -- I'm thinking along the same lines... by the second round (let along the seventh), the blast and flash from the cylinder gap would have been unreal.

If I had to guess, I'd say it was done with 'dry brass', just using the primer as propellant.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:36 AM (/mTq0)

170 Toby, I'm partial to Pervy Partisan ammo myself.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 30, 2014 08:37 AM (XO6WW)

171 Has anyone heard of a twist on the usual tactics of center of mass shooting - when using ball - shoot for the hips going for a mobility stop and bleed out. Concept seems to be to stop assailants with vests, either plate carriers or explosives, when limited to 9mm ball.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2014 08:39 AM (7YFuT)

172 While that was definetly true a couple years ago, the .32 is roaring back. I see ammo in all major sports big box stores. And as commenter 32 said ( how is that for irony) the 32 Fed, and also the 32 H&R has a lot to do with it. These are perfectly good defense rounds. Posted by: Pat at November 30, 2014 01:22 PM (Ks6h9) My beautiful little .32 ACP Seecamp is my always carry gun. The pistol itself was built around the Winchester Silvertip but I've found it can also reliably fire the Hornady Critical Defense brand cartridge, but none others in my experience. A word about calibers here. The Seecamp .32 has no sights or safety mechanism. It's intended as an up-close and personal point-and-shoot defensive weapon. Since most documented gun fights take place at less than 10 feet (!), I have confidence it'll do what I want it to do if I do my part. When training at the range with the Seecamp, I practice almost exclusively one-handed at 5 yards, which is the closest I can go at the range I frequent. The key (to me) is presentation. If I can present at or under two seconds, then I'm doing well. I figure the one thing I won't have in a defensive situation is the luxury of time: time to present, to take a stance, to aim; thus, my goal is to get it out as quickly as I can, point, and shoot the shit out of whoever is trying to hurt or kill me.

Posted by: troyriser at November 30, 2014 08:43 AM (ptcFO)

173 57 -- Guns Gardens and Yarn -- I gotta admit, it's a sexy little beast.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 08:45 AM (/mTq0)

174 I have one of those 38's on a 45 frame. It's a S&W Outdoorsman in 38special, 1952 vintage. This one has been factory modified with a ramp sight instead of the original Patridge sight.

Posted by: JimK at November 30, 2014 08:52 AM (KQHmI)

175 Jean: the pelvis and hips are secondary targets. If you don't stop the threat with center-mass hits, either go upstairs to the brain pan or downstairs to the structural bones. You're correct that armor or a chest rig may reduce the effects of center mass hits, but it's still where you should start, if possible. Doesn't matter if you're using JHP or FMJ.

Posted by: PabloD at November 30, 2014 08:55 AM (roESk)

176 143 Posted by: Jen the original at November 30, 2014 12:58 PM (/s7L7) I love you.

Posted by: rickl at November 30, 2014 08:56 AM (sdi6R)

177 Has anyone heard of a twist on the usual tactics of center of mass shooting - when using ball - shoot for the hips going for a mobility stop and bleed out. Start at the balls and work your way up is how I've heard it, especially if you're point shooting from your hip or waist.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 08:56 AM (rwI+c)

178 Addendum: if you KNOW the bad guy is wearing armor, then I'd say skip center mass, pick another area and start shooting.

Posted by: PabloD at November 30, 2014 08:58 AM (roESk)

179 Brave Sir Robin, I second the others on using what works for you. Im an 'ette, and my personal experience is the Airweight .38 I used as my first carry gun hurt my hand when I shot it, and my accuracy was poor. I carry a Kahr PM 9 now. OTOH, some of the stuff I'm reading by commenters on gun blogs is about how most gun fights are at very close range, and if you have to press your revolver to Trayvon's ribs, it won't go out of battery and fail to fire as a semiauto might. I'm hearing nice things about the Ruger LCR too.

Posted by: Stace at November 30, 2014 09:06 AM (r6s/p)

180 Has anyone heard of a twist on the usual tactics of center of mass shooting - when using ball - shoot for the hips going for a mobility stop and bleed out. Concept seems to be to stop assailants with vests, either plate carriers or explosives, when limited to 9mm ball.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2014 01:39 PM (7YFuT)




CQB, starting at arms length, I was taught (Tigerswan) to just clear leather and shoot from the hip for the nuts first as you are backing away, then arms length/front sight and go center mass/brainpan as appropriate.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 09:09 AM (6fyGz)

181 Apparently the countries demand for AR pattern rifles is close to being matched by supply. The price of stripped lowers has plummeted this gift giving season. I see Anderson lowers at $39 and Bushmasters at $49.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 09:10 AM (rwI+c)

182 I see Anderson lowers at $39 and Bushmasters at $49.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 02:10 PM (rwI+c)



Might be time to build that AR that I've been meaning to have.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 30, 2014 09:11 AM (6fyGz)

183 Here's the Bushmasters ad at Brownells http://is.gd/F2lDhE

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 09:14 AM (rwI+c)

184 95 -- troyriser -- It's intrinsic to the basic design... nearly every 'fixed-barrel' self-loader pistol should have a higher baseline accuracy.

The trade-off is a limit on cartridge power...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 09:15 AM (/mTq0)

185 186 Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 02:15 PM (/mTq0)

http://tinyurl.com/opvtlwo

Remington's R-51 warts and all uses a fixed barrel...

I really wish they had fixed the ergonomics on it...

I so WANT to like this pistol.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:18 AM (/4AZU)

186 102 -- flounder -- Agiprop 101: no logic, no rules, no limits on falsehoods, and no shame.

It's Leftism, pure and simple.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 09:19 AM (/mTq0)

187 188  Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 02:19 PM (/mTq0)

Just wait until they get a majority on the Supreme Court again...

they'll undo gun rights and property rights like a wrecking ball....

b/c "somehow" Moonbats get their ideology openly on the court and we get to play spin the wheel make a deal

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:22 AM (/4AZU)

188 119 -- kindltot -- Is using Pyrodex cheating?

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 09:27 AM (/mTq0)

189 AK-47 Korean Drum 7.62x39 75RD $49.99 http://is.gd/K8gH31

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 09:32 AM (rwI+c)

190 191 Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 02:32 PM (rwI+c)

I had a 75 rounder...I was so impressed I sold it and the NHB-91 I had it for....

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:33 AM (/4AZU)

191 NMH-91 HB rather....

the Chinese RPD profile AK clone in semi-auto....

whichever

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:34 AM (/4AZU)

192 Glock police tradeins: Glock 23 3rd Gen Handgun 40 S&W $350 http://is.gd/0GvuuX Glock 21 3rd Gen Handgun 45 ACP $360 http://is.gd/5NEqA4

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 09:34 AM (rwI+c)

193 121 -- Brave Sir Robin -- Given that the presentment of weapon can be enough to deter a criminal (act), and revolvers don't jam, it could be a viable carry weapon.

Then again, it depends on where you live, and what's the 'likely threat' you'll be confronted with.

Revolvers work... just bear in mind that you'll only get 5 shots with that style of .38.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 09:34 AM (/mTq0)

194 RPK clone.... it's time for sven changes the batteries or gets a new keyboard....

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:34 AM (/4AZU)

195 the Chinese RPD profile AK clone in semi-auto.... I want an AES10b or similar. I'd put a drum on that since its too heavy anyway.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 09:35 AM (rwI+c)

196 195 Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 02:34 PM (/mTq0)

Quite...

of course I am still strongly intrigued by the Rhino.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:36 AM (/4AZU)

197 Oops. I see the Glock 23's have sold out. My bad.

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 09:39 AM (rwI+c)

198 197 Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 02:35 PM (rwI+c)

I was impressed with the Chi-Coms accuracy it had a nice receiver...

I just shed my AKs and SKS types every 7 years or so....

I think I sold the whole kit and kaboodle for ~300

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 09:40 AM (/4AZU)

199 134 -- artisanal 'ette -- A hard jab with a kubotan to the groin would settle his ass down right quick.

(I'm going with 'he'...)

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 09:41 AM (/mTq0)

200 Mama won't let me build another AR, no matter how low lower prices have dropped. She says I have enough (is that even possible?!?). She is open to a Slide Fire Bump Stock, though. I think one of our neighbors has one. I thought they had some sort of full auto. Anyone gave any experience with that system?

Posted by: Hilados y Turbia at November 30, 2014 09:54 AM (4DCSq)

201 187 -- Sven -- I hear ya bro... it is a lovely-looking little pistol.

However, the big problem at the moment is that Remington's QA/QC has totally gone to shit.

Given the fact that, once upon a time, Remington was renowned for accuracy, toughness, and reliability... it is truly a sad state of affairs.

With any luck, a (conservative) billionaire will come along, buy Remington, totally clean house, and restore its good name.

BTW, I'm not holding my breath...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 10:04 AM (/mTq0)

202 Just saw a recall notice on Facebook regarding Remington 887 shotguns for possible slamfiring. Shotguns made from Dec 19, 2013 through Nov 24, 2014 are being recalled for a defect which causes the firing pin to bend and causing unintentional discharges.

Posted by: Bill R. at November 30, 2014 10:04 AM (jKUeC)

203 189 -- Sven -- If it comes to that, hopefully the conservatives will have the numbers advantage to trigger off an Art. 5 convention and put the judges in their place... and ALL levels of the system.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 10:08 AM (/mTq0)

204 Re post 204: Defect causes firing pin to bind resulting in inadvertent discharges.

Posted by: Bill R. at November 30, 2014 10:11 AM (jKUeC)

205 191 -- toby928(C) -- Hmm... looks nice.

And the quality should be good (the Koreans make good stuff); the Russian drums are rare (and over-priced), and the Norinco drums are total shit.

If ya got the money to burn... go for it.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 10:12 AM (/mTq0)

206 198 -- Sven -- A Rhino??? f'cking future toy... if we're talking revolvers, gimme a Ruger GP101 (name your barrel length).

End of discussion...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 10:17 AM (/mTq0)

207 200 -- Sven -- I am the proud owner of two '386' AKs'...

...the '386' arsenal stamp means it was built in the same plant where they assemble their sniper and match rifles.

Milled receivers, all the lower receiver fiddly bits are heat-treated, and they have 'match' bores.

Neither of them are for sale... ever.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 10:22 AM (/mTq0)

208 205 Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 03:08 PM (/mTq0)

One hopes.

Democrats are willfully using the system to destroy the nation.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 10:29 AM (/4AZU)

209 208 Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 03:17 PM (/mTq0)

Go fire one Cap...

the muzzle flip is "non"....

http://youtu.be/yNOeov2Ta7s

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 10:31 AM (/4AZU)

210 One other question for the now vacant gun thread...

how hard is CAD to master through raw willpower?

Reason I'm asking is entry level 3d printers are down to ~399

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 11:35 AM (/4AZU)

211 Sven, not hard to make basic stuff. Multiple materials, thermal issues, .... It can get hard fast.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2014 01:12 PM (TETYm)

212 I'm amazed the forcing cone in that K frame S&W didn't split wide open and take someone's hand off. I keep a Ruger SP101 .357 for just that reason.

Posted by: SCIPIO AFRICANUS at November 30, 2014 01:31 PM (i5wUE)

213 213 Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2014 06:12 PM (TETYm)

Thanks Jean, I am pondering making WW-1 and WW2 aeroplanes....

Small scale for a wargame...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 02:25 PM (/4AZU)

214 216 -- Sven -- Many years ago at a gaming con, I saw a WWI fighter game being played...

...the fighters looked like 1/48 models, mounted on yardsticks (with the capacity to be raised and lowered) on stands, being maneuvered around a large area with tape measures being used mark movement.

Ah, those were the days...

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 02:37 PM (/mTq0)

215 Sven, check out http://www.linuxcnc.org

Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 02:38 PM (rwI+c)

216 216 Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 07:37 PM (/mTq0)

Ah yes probably Dawn Patrol

217 Posted by: toby928(C) has drink taken at November 30, 2014 07:38 PM (rwI+c)

Thanks Toby....

I am absolutely a neophyte in understanding CNC

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 30, 2014 02:52 PM (/4AZU)

217 I would rather be kicked in the nuts than carry a P-64 for CCW. You will get slide-bite. It is a nasty piece of work, makes a Makarov look like a Wilson Combat 1911 by comparison. If you want something small to CCW, get a Smith 642. If you want something concealable but hi-cap, get a Glock 19. Even ARFCOM knows better than to recommend a P-64. P-64 is at collectors toy at best.

Posted by: R Shackleford at November 30, 2014 03:19 PM (9uT8y)

218 I have 2 p-64's. My wife likes them and carries them sometimes. It's a bit snappy for her. I like the CZ-82 for CCW myself. Both are are steel guns, very affordable that will be here functioning 50-100 years later which I can't with confidence say about some of the tactical tupperware people buy now.

Posted by: The Walking Dude at November 30, 2014 03:28 PM (Oxi7U)

219 I have no doubt my glock will be working in 50 years. That said, I also have a CZ-82 and a CZ-83 and they are finicky about what brand of Makarov ammo it gets fed. It likes Czech and Hungarian and gets three-point stoppages from Russian. I suspect the case rim is a bit too thick to transition under the extractor.

Posted by: R Shackleford at November 30, 2014 03:46 PM (9uT8y)

220 221 -- R Shackleford -- As long as it's not a 10mm Glock, you're probably right... I'm still not convinced that a polymer frame can handle the long-term stress of that particular round.

As to the CZ-82, I recommend Seller-n-Bellot ammo, if you can find it (usually gun shows); I suspect that, with the Russian ammo, that it's more about the amount of propellant they're loaded with; Russian ammo tends to clock slower than other brands.

The Hungarian ammo is okay, but I think it's a little dirtier than most, and the last time I checked, its Berdan-primed, which precludes reloading (if you're into that sorta thing).

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 30, 2014 04:40 PM (/mTq0)

221 "119 Obnoxious, I've heard different, but I have not been able to even get to that low end reloading speed, so I can't tell. Capping was supposed to add to the reloading time, as was forcing a mine down a fouled barrel.


Posted by: kindltot at November 30, 2014 12:31 PM (t//F+)"



Back in the day, they used round balls and minie balls that were a lot smaller than the bore even when badly fouled.  This made them less accurate but they could keep shooting.  The US .69 caliber smoothbore musket, copied from the French .69 caliber Charleville musket used a .63 inch diameter ball which bounced down the barrel.  You can achieve something approaching accuracy from a .69 smooth bore with a .680 inch diameter ball with a greased patch but that is not the way they actually shot them.  The US paper cartridges were usually a .63 inch diameter lead ball and 3 .36 inch buck shot over 100 grains of black powder.  A portion of the 100 grains was intended to be poured into the pan to prime the flint lock but when they went to percussion, they kept the 100 grain load and dumped it all down the barrel. 



Minnie balls can be a bit tight in a fouled barrel if you leave them wrapped in paper but if they are unwrapped, they usually go down easily no matter how dirty the barrel.  As with the round balls, modern shooters tend to use a bit larger diameter because they get better accuracy and they are not worried about shooting as fast as possible in combat.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at December 01, 2014 04:18 AM (PD6iL)

222 Hello Web Admin, I noticed that your On-Page SEO is is missing a few factors, for one you do not use all three H tags in your post, also I notice that you are not using bold or italics properly in your SEO optimization. On-Page SEO means more now than ever since the new Google update: Panda. No longer are backlinks and simply pinging or sending out a RSS feed the key to getting Google PageRank or Alexa Rankings, You now NEED On-Page SEO. So what is good On-Page SEO?First your keyword must appear in the title.Then it must appear in the URL.You have to optimize your keyword and make sure that it has a nice keyword density of 3-5% in your article with relevant LSI (Latent Semantic Indexing). Then you should spread all H1,H2,H3 tags in your article.Your Keyword should appear in your first paragraph and in the last sentence of the page. You should have relevant usage of Bold and italics of your keyword.There should be one internal link to a page on your blog and you should have one image with an alt tag that has your keyword....wait there's even more Now what if i told you there was a simple Wordpress plugin that does all the On-Page SEO, and automatically for you? That's right AUTOMATICALLY, just watch this 4minute video for more information at. Seo Plugin

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