August 31, 2011

Green Jobs Are To Real Jobs as Unicorns Are To Horses: Another Vaunted Green Jobs Plant Shutters
— Ace

Obama's successes just keep piling on each other like kids playing Kill the Guy With The Meatball.

A California solar-panel manufacturer once touted by President Barack Obama as a beneficiary of his administration's economic policies — as well as a half-billion-dollar federal loan — is laying off 1,100 workers and filing for bankruptcy.

Solyndra LLC of Fremont, Calif., had become the poster child for government investment in green technology. The president visited the company in May 2010 and noted that Solyndra expected to hire 1,000 workers to manufacture solar panels. Other state and federal officials such as former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Energy Secretary Steven Chu also visited the company's facilities.

But hard times have hit the nation's solar industry. Solyndra is the third solar company to seek bankruptcy protection this month. Officials said Wednesday that the global economy as well as unfavorable conditions in the solar industry combined to force the company to suspend its manufacturing operations.

Yes, global economic conditions are very hostile to solar right now, with oil prices at historic highs. I mean, you wouldn't want to compete when your competitors are extraordinarily expensive, would you?

Of course that would assume that solar competes with oil. It doesn't. Solar competes with ObamaCare, welfare, food stamps...for subsidies. In as much as it relies on government subsidization to continue on.

And that is why the "global economy" actually disfavors it. Less government money to move from one slush pile to another. This product is not sold to consumers; it is sold to governments and lobbyists and tax lawyers.

Thanks to Chad.


Posted by: Ace at 01:06 PM | Comments (145)
Post contains 297 words, total size 2 kb.

1 What do you call someone, who everything he touches , turns to shit?

Posted by: nevergiveup at August 31, 2011 01:08 PM (aYQHH)

2 GREEEEEEEENNNNN SHOOOOOOOTS!!!!!!!!

Posted by: fixerupper at August 31, 2011 01:08 PM (ffV1/)

3 like kids playing Kill the Guy With The Meatball.


you mean smear the queer?

Posted by: The Dude at August 31, 2011 01:08 PM (M8yfa)

4 It's like they can't survive on their own. Green jobs are hot-house flowers.

Posted by: fluffy at August 31, 2011 01:09 PM (3SvjA)

5 What do you call someone [...]

Dude. Aesop's fables, c. 3000 AD.

"And so Obama touched his daughter, and she, too, turned to fecal matter."

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:09 PM (bjRNS)

6 What do you call someone, who everything he touches , turns to shit?

You can't possibly be referring to Barack Obama, who is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure, could you?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:10 PM (8y9MW)

7 where's proudonkey now? But srsly, are these boondoggles similar to The Producers? That is, they planned to fail in order to siphon out $?

Posted by: joeindc44 at August 31, 2011 01:10 PM (QxSug)

8
When Obama says we need to "invest in green energy technology" during his speech, the Republicans should roll around on the floor and laugh.

Posted by: Soothsayer at August 31, 2011 01:10 PM (G/zuv)

9

I wonder if they're going to have a big sale on those Solyndra panels now.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at August 31, 2011 01:10 PM (2Mtxm)

10 What a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure Obama is.

Posted by: steevy at August 31, 2011 01:10 PM (1Nzoh)

11 But srsly, are these boondoggles similar to The Producers?

Genius!

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:10 PM (bjRNS)

12 Only liberals believe that solar panels aren't a luxury item. But then again, they don't use them either, so have never seen the cost.

Posted by: MJ at August 31, 2011 01:11 PM (BKOsZ)

13 Posted this in the last thread,more appropriate here. 189 SCoaMF gives speech about how a company is the future,loans $523 million to company which of course,donates heavily to him.Company goes bankrupt soon after.Sounds about right.Can we talk impeachment YET?

Posted by: steevy at August 31, 2011 01:12 PM (1Nzoh)

14 Cue the smell of cat pee and donkey poop, coming in 3...2....1....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 31, 2011 01:12 PM (UOM48)

15 When I bought my house early last year, I priced out what it would cost to put solar panels on the roof.  The estimate to bring my average electricity bill down from $250/mth to $150/mth was 85 thousand dollars.


Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 31, 2011 01:12 PM (nRTou)

16 Officials said Wednesday that the global economy as well as unfavorable conditions in the solar industry combined to force the company to suspend its manufacturing operations.

Translation from Spin:

the global economy: Some dudes in San Fransisco
unfavorable conditions: Having to pay bills

When you're catering to hipster douches, it helps to remember they don't actually have money, most of the time.  This is why there are so many free adds for smart-phones.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:12 PM (8y9MW)

17

Of course that would assume that solar competes with oil. It doesn't. Solar competes with ObamaCare, welfare, food stamps...for subsidies. In as much as it relies on government subsidization to continue on.

Heheh. I thought you were going to say "for making liberals feel good about themselves" but you went with subsidies, that's... hey! That's not a joke!

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 01:13 PM (KeJbA)

18 1 What do you call someone, who everything he touches , turns to shit?

Posted by: nevergiveup at August 31, 2011 06:08 PM (aYQHH)

I believe that's called the "Reverse Midas Touch."  We should just call it the "Obama Touch" from now on.

Posted by: Insomniac at August 31, 2011 01:13 PM (v+QvA)

19 Grass, trees, all plants ARE all solar powered. SCOAMF can't make a go of solar power. Therefore...... Obama's IQ number IS below plant life. (aint KidKos logic fun????)

Posted by: fixerupper at August 31, 2011 01:14 PM (ffV1/)

20 Take away the government subsidies to any of these alternative energy sources and guess what ? There wouldn't be any .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at August 31, 2011 01:14 PM (npr0X)

21 Solar-powered vibrators are hawt.

Posted by: FLOTUS at August 31, 2011 01:14 PM (WCm02)

22 3 like kids playing Kill the Guy With The Meatball.


you mean smear the queer?

Posted by: The Dude at August 31, 2011 06:08 PM (M8yfa)

Homophobe!  Denounce yourself, immediately!

Posted by: Insomniac at August 31, 2011 01:14 PM (v+QvA)

23 Obama is death to business, green or otherwise. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 31, 2011 01:15 PM (UOM48)

24

The estimate to bring my average electricity bill down from $250/mth to $150/mth was 85 thousand dollars.

Now that's a funny joke!

Wait....

That's not a joke either!

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 01:15 PM (KeJbA)

25 Phoney companies to serve as props and donation bundlers and money laundering mechanisms.


Posted by: sifty at August 31, 2011 01:16 PM (4CSeG)

26 Arny was an Austrian accented English clusterfuck of a miserable failure as Governor.

Posted by: steevy at August 31, 2011 01:16 PM (1Nzoh)

27 [...] I priced out what it would cost to put solar panels on the roof.

I live in a part of the country where solar panels might make sense (Southern California). Even with the subsidies, I'd be trading my payment to Sempra for a loan payment of the same size.

But that's with great solar weather year-round. I can't see how it would make sense for the rest of the country.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:16 PM (bjRNS)

28 Thanks to "Chad?" You mean... Chad Wincklefarb? That Chad, "ace?"

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at August 31, 2011 01:17 PM (TATbF)

29 25 Yup.

Posted by: steevy at August 31, 2011 01:17 PM (1Nzoh)

30 I think what they mean by "unfavorable conditions" is other companies are making solar panels far more cheaply.

Posted by: Ace's liver at August 31, 2011 01:17 PM (1+XRG)

31 You know who this doesn't help??

Poor Mittens...is there an issue that he has been on the right side of?

Posted by: beedubya at August 31, 2011 01:18 PM (AnTyA)

32 Tim Blair's piece from 2 weeks ago:

SUNDOWN
In other words, solar isn’t viable unless solar-equipped households get lots of money from other taxpayers. A Silex Solar boss on ABC news earlier said that his company wasn’t seeking handouts, but simply a “level playing field”. As he explained it, this seemed to mean matching Chinese subsidies for solar cell manufacture.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at August 31, 2011 01:19 PM (c0A3e)

33

House Energy and Commerce Committee Republicans launched an investigation into the loan guarantee in February, alleging that the administration didn’t adequately vet the company’s financial situation.

As part of the investigation, Republicans in March requested a slew of documents from the White House Office of Management and Budget related to the loan guarantee.

After OMB refused to provide all the documents, Republicans on the House Energy panel’s Oversight and Investigations subcommittee voted in July to issue a subpoena. OMB in August agreed to provide all the requested documents.

Posted by: James Loughner at August 31, 2011 01:19 PM (e8kgV)

34 I think what they mean by "unfavorable conditions" is other companies are making solar panels far more cheaply.

I think what they mean by "unfavorable conditions" is "people figuring out solar panels are a poor investment."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:20 PM (8y9MW)

35 Yes, global economic conditions are very hostile to solar right now,

...and don't forget about the solar rays

Posted by: The CERN Sciencytists at August 31, 2011 01:20 PM (AnTyA)

36 Like good red wine, this just gets finer with age

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at August 31, 2011 01:20 PM (UqKQV)

37 33 Even ABC news realises how much this story stinks of coorruption.

Posted by: steevy at August 31, 2011 01:21 PM (1Nzoh)

38 i recall a few yrs ago there was a solar power project planned for the Mojave Desert. It was blocked by Sen Feinstein The Hutt on aesthetic (aka NIMBY) grounds

Posted by: Jones at August 31, 2011 01:21 PM (8sCoq)

39 Chad Wincklefarb?

Hanging Chad Wincklefarb?

Posted by: Pooter Hound at August 31, 2011 01:21 PM (le5qc)

40 Sunlight has gotten so much more expensive these days.

Posted by: stuiec at August 31, 2011 01:21 PM (Di3Im)

41 Since nobody reads the headlines I guess, I'll just repost the comment I made when I posted this story there. (You bet your ass I'm bitter. I'm clingy too.)

I guess they call them "green jobs" because they decompose so quickly. 

Posted by: krakatoa at August 31, 2011 01:21 PM (v6HKW)

42 Bankruptcy is a pretty good deal, if you have the right friends in high places.....

Posted by: UAW-Government Motors at August 31, 2011 01:22 PM (f8XyF)

43

 

What do you call someone, who everything he touches , turns to shit?

 

Ralph Kramden

Posted by: kj at August 31, 2011 01:22 PM (Pzadr)

44 28 Thanks to "Chad?"

You mean...

Chad Wincklefarb?

That Chad, "ace?"

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at August 31, 2011 06:17 PM (TATbF)

You know Jeff, he probably doesn't want to suck your dick because you revealed his real name.

Posted by: buzzion at August 31, 2011 01:23 PM (GULKT)

45 43 Alice was a hawt ginger and he nailed her on a nightly basis.

Posted by: steevy at August 31, 2011 01:23 PM (1Nzoh)

46 I live in a part of the country where solar panels might make sense (Southern California). Even with the subsidies, I'd be trading my payment to Sempra for a loan payment of the same size.

But that's with great solar weather year-round. I can't see how it would make sense for the rest of the country.

I live in Florida, so it would work well for me - in theory.  I'd love it if they actually worked because it would be great to be off the grid, but they aren't anywhere near being a viable alternative right now.  They aren't efficient,  they're expensive and they don't last long enough.

It's total insanity to rush into a technology that's still in its infancy.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 31, 2011 01:24 PM (nRTou)

47

 

45

She dug the uniform

Posted by: kj at August 31, 2011 01:24 PM (Pzadr)

48 Part of the problem of course is that solar panel manufacturing is like any other kind, you still need things like affordable power that California specializes in destroying.

Posted by: JEM at August 31, 2011 01:24 PM (M+WZt)

49 Maxine Waters is to Sarah Palin as  kernal of corn is in one of my turds.

Posted by: Krazy Kat at August 31, 2011 01:24 PM (I/MzF)

50

What do you call someone, who everything he touches , turns to shit?

King Midass

Posted by: buzzion at August 31, 2011 01:24 PM (GULKT)

51 On 2nd 3rd 4th thought, I think Boehner screwed up.

He traded the good position of "Obama is an ass", for the bad position of "Boehner is an ass".

It was a checkmate after all.

Posted by: cherry pi at August 31, 2011 01:26 PM (OhYCU)

52 Speaking of horses, there's a helluva three day rodeo in Okeechobee this weekend. Yeee Hawwwww

Posted by: Pooter Hound at August 31, 2011 01:26 PM (le5qc)

53 These solar panels might make financial sense if the sun's cosmic rays were able to reach them unimpeded. Fuck you ozone layer!

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at August 31, 2011 01:26 PM (+lsX1)

54 You'd think these idiots would get a clue, especially with mounting evidence that green industry can't compete, even when there are literally billions of dollars thrown in its direction to try and prop it up.

Posted by: Pion Farmer hasn't read the comments at August 31, 2011 01:26 PM (IzuWw)

55 I was told it would take about $35,000 to power my home with solar panels.  It is not a large house.  My last electric bill in the heat of summer was about $200.  Figure around $150 the other eight months.  So after 17-18 years,  the solar panels would begin to pay for themselves.

Posted by: Dang at August 31, 2011 01:27 PM (TXKVh)

56 It's total insanity to rush into a technology that's still in its infancy.

And why is it still in its infancy?  People had functional solar panels 20 years ago.  Longer, really, but we'll just start from there.

20 years ago, you still had to use a pay-phone if you wanted to call someone while you were away from home.

20 years ago, there was, functionally, no such thing as the Internet, let alone wireless internet, cellular internet, etc.

20 years ago TVs still used Cathode Ray Tubes.

So much other technology has advanced so far, why not solar?  Maybe because it truly isn't viable?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:28 PM (8y9MW)

57 Never did I realize that the Emperor That Has No Clothes, King Mid-Ass, and the guy that killed the goose that lays the golden eggs, are all the same dude and would one day lead the most powerful nation on Earth.

Posted by: Aesop at August 31, 2011 01:28 PM (ffV1/)

58 I never thought I could smell the stench of failure so far from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave all the way here in San Diego.  That stench is not from Tijuana.  I know Tijuana stink and this is worse.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 31, 2011 01:28 PM (iYbLN)

59 I live in Florida, so it would work well for me - in theory.

You get more rain than I do, which is a differentiation.

I fully agree with you that they don't last long enough -- for my calculation, they would break right after the loan got paid off. If you have to pay a little more -- and given that my efficiency is a product of the weather -- then you might end up needing new panels before the loan was paid off.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:28 PM (bjRNS)

60 @1 a progressive.liberal.democrat

Posted by: x11b1p at August 31, 2011 01:28 PM (nVLlM)

61 You'd think these idiots would get a clue

It's a religion. They'll come around about the same time the Taliban decides it's OK to let little girls go to school instead of giving them to old men.

(Why does that Superman on the sidebar have gym socks stuffed down his tights?)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 01:29 PM (0vDuM)

62 When I bought my house early last year, I priced out what it would cost to put solar panels on the roof.  The estimate to bring my average electricity bill down from $250/mth to $150/mth was 85 thousand dollars.

70 year payback.  And longevity is on the upswing.  Go for it.

This message brought to you by the Joe Biden Mathematics Foundation.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 31, 2011 01:29 PM (7utQ2)

63 Wondering what happened to the $500 million? They built a few nice buildings out there, constant activity for about two years, and then- bang. They stop manufacturing and then they go bankrupt. Where is that money?

Posted by: t-bird at August 31, 2011 01:30 PM (FcR7P)

64 You still talking about unicorns? What about these?

Posted by: Pam Geller at August 31, 2011 01:30 PM (le5qc)

65 When I bought my house early last year, I priced out what it would cost to put solar panels on the roof.  The estimate to bring my average electricity bill down from $250/mth to $150/mth was 85 thousand dollars.

Well..the upside is that you would break even in about 70 years.

Posted by: beedubya at August 31, 2011 01:30 PM (AnTyA)

66

So much other technology has advanced so far, why not solar? Maybe because it truly isn't viable?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 06:28 PM (8y9MW)

They might actually be getting closer.  By coping the eyes of some Moths. But I'm betting its still decades away if ever.

Posted by: buzzion at August 31, 2011 01:30 PM (GULKT)

67 Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 06:28 PM (bjRNS)

I live in Texas.  We have sun, oh so much sun.  But for a few weeks out of the year, we have thunderstorms, oh such thunderstorms.  Sometimes tornadoes, too.  But always thunderstorms.  You know what usually comes in a spring/fall thunderstorm?  Hail.

I'm sure you can do the math...

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:31 PM (8y9MW)

68 Heather, is that you? I'm still waiting in the men's room. Ba woooooooohhhh

Posted by: Pooter Hound at August 31, 2011 01:31 PM (le5qc)

69 So much other technology has advanced so far, why not solar?  Maybe because it truly isn't viable?

The technology has advanced, just not to the point of being able to power individual homes.  It has the same challenges that batteries have, which has totally lagged behind other technology sectors in advancements.

Personally, I believe solar has a lot of potential.  It's just not viable right now.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 31, 2011 01:32 PM (nRTou)

70 "oil prices at historic highs"  Huh?  I don't think so.

Posted by: gp at August 31, 2011 01:32 PM (B9rV2)

71 Posted by: Dang at August 31, 2011 06:27 PM (TXKVh)

Assuming they operated at optimal efficiency for 17 to 18 years, instead of at maybe 50% efficiency if you are lucky and kept up with the cleaning. And assuming the panels didn't need replacing in 5-10 years. And assuming the batteries didn't need replacing in 3-7 years.

Posted by: krakatoa at August 31, 2011 01:32 PM (v6HKW)

72 Raaaacissst!!!111!!

Green energy is the future!!
Oil is murder!11!!

How dare you mock energy sources of color. An attack on Green Energy is the same as lynching a black man. It's racism, straight up.

Posted by: Chimichanga Chica at August 31, 2011 01:32 PM (QcFbt)

73 When I actively kill-off coal and oil, you'll be wishing you had all those panels. And when Michelle kills off meat and deserts, you'll be wishing you had more arugula and gravel.

You should be thanking us.

Posted by: SCoaMF at August 31, 2011 01:32 PM (r4t7/)

74 Algore should rename his documentary to: "Watch me make millions off of all these dumb liberal fucks"

Posted by: x11b1p at August 31, 2011 01:32 PM (nVLlM)

75
Maybe they could have stayed open a wee bit longer if they hadn't spent frickin' $700 million on the production facility. I know that it's high-tech shit, but I find it hard to believe that it'd require around 3/4 of a billion smackeroos just to build the factory.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 31, 2011 01:33 PM (3AuGS)

76 It's total insanity to rush into a technology that's still in its infancy. Posted by: Johnny

The first semiconductor photovoltaic cells were created in the '40s.

I'm not sure how to classify that time frame, but 'infancy' doesn't seem to fit.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 31, 2011 01:33 PM (s1vtf)

77 Democrat crony gives DNC thousands of dollars. Democrat president clears way for millions of dollars for "green" company of Democrat crony. "Green" company promptly goes bankrupt, but not before he kickbacks money to the DNC and funnels the rest of the money away,before anyone with sense, wonders where the money has gone. Rinse and repeat.

Islam might be onto something with the chopping off of the hands.  

 

Posted by: befuddled at August 31, 2011 01:33 PM (xJU23)

78 We invite the President to bring his solar-powered teleprompter to a special night-time session of Congress on Sept 8th.

Posted by: DaBoehner at August 31, 2011 01:33 PM (FcR7P)

79 What do you call someone, who everything he touches, turns to shit?

Le roi de la merde

Posted by: Here Comes the Shit King at August 31, 2011 01:33 PM (QKKT0)

80 I have an idea for creating energy from clipped toenails.  But I'll need $5 billion from the govt for research.  But I promise to employ 1000 people for a time.

The prez can tout it in his joint speech to kindegarten at Soros Elementary next Wed.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at August 31, 2011 01:34 PM (4nfy2)

81 I could help you.  I just don't feel like it.

Posted by: Ra, that sun god guy at August 31, 2011 01:34 PM (TXKVh)

82 I live in Texas.  We have sun, oh so much sun.  But for a few weeks out of the year, we have thunderstorms, oh such thunderstorms.  Sometimes tornadoes, too.  But always thunderstorms.  You know what usually comes in a spring/fall thunderstorm?  Hail.

I wasn't looking forward to getting up on my roof once a year to clean the ash off the panels, either. (There are three SoCal seasons: rainy, dry, fire.)

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:35 PM (bjRNS)

83 I live in Texas.  We have sun, oh so much sun.  But for a few weeks out of the year, we have thunderstorms, oh such thunderstorms.  Sometimes tornadoes, too.  But always thunderstorms.  You know what usually comes in a spring/fall thunderstorm?  Hail.

I'm sure you can do the math...
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 06:31 PM

My brother, who also lives in Texas and sells and installs solar systems, loves hail storms.  He calls it bonus time.

Posted by: huerfano at August 31, 2011 01:35 PM (kD+se)

84 I'm still waiting in the men's room. Ba woooooooohhhh

Yeah, I'll be right there, or something. Heh.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 01:35 PM (0vDuM)

85 I think I know what the SCOAMF's new economic plan will be.  He's going to tax the cities that get disproportional amounts of sunlight.  A sunshine tax.  Beware, Arizona.  They found something else to come after you for.

Posted by: SCOAMF - at August 31, 2011 01:35 PM (k0vGp)

86 (Why does that Superman on the sidebar have gym socks stuffed down his tights?)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 06:29 PM (0vDuM)



The ladies are always checking out the Super Package.

Posted by: Clark Kent at August 31, 2011 01:35 PM (QKKT0)

87 Wondering what happened to the $500 million? They built a few nice buildings out there, constant activity for about two years, and then- bang. They stop manufacturing and then they go bankrupt.

Where is that money?

Shut up, that's where.

But hey- wanna check out my new Ferrari?

Posted by: CEO of Solyndra LLC, Democratic Party Donor at August 31, 2011 01:36 PM (SY2Kh)

88 Who is responsible for auditing these companies to find out where the hell all of our money went?

Posted by: Breaker19 at August 31, 2011 01:36 PM (WCm02)

89 We invite the President to bring his solar-powered teleprompter to a special night-time session of Congress on Sept 8th.

Posted by: DaBoehner at August 31, 2011 06:33 PM (FcR7P)

My God... It's full of.... poo!

Posted by: D. Bowman at August 31, 2011 01:36 PM (v6HKW)

90 Nasty, nasty sock.

Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at August 31, 2011 01:36 PM (k0vGp)

91 I can create a billion dollar industry. But first I need five billion

Posted by: Warren Buffet at August 31, 2011 01:36 PM (le5qc)

92 What do you call someone, who everything he touches, turns to shit?

A stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 01:37 PM (0vDuM)

93 The first semiconductor photovoltaic cells were created in the '40s.

I'm not sure how to classify that time frame, but 'infancy' doesn't seem to fit.

The first steam powered machines were created by the ancient Greeks. It took how many centuries to figure out how to make that technology viable as anything but a novelty? PV is getting better but it isn't ready for prime time. The tech is at the same level as cell phones and laptop batteries in the late 1970s or early 80s. We are still a decade or so away from stuff that is really viable to the average person.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston training for the ONT mudwrestling match at August 31, 2011 01:37 PM (ijjAe)

94

 

Christ we're a bunch of pikers

Posted by: wastful defense contractor at August 31, 2011 01:37 PM (Pzadr)

95 Personally, I believe solar has a lot of potential.  It's just not viable right now.

No.  I don't think so.

It was posted here some months ago, but someone (WUWT, maybe?) had an explanation of why there's just not enough energy density in solar power to make it viable.  Basically, if it had enough energy density, we'd all have to wear 300 SPF sunscreen just to walk out to our cars.

It's fine as a supplemental power-source in limited situations, but it's never going to be good for the majority of consumers.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:38 PM (8y9MW)

96 If  these yingaha's made an affordable hydrogen convertor suitable for private use, affordable and compact then they would have something but Nooooooooooooo.......................that would mean an unlimited supply of free and clean energy!!

Posted by: Krazy Kat at August 31, 2011 01:38 PM (I/MzF)

97  Posted by: Dang at August 31, 2011 06:27 PM (TXKVh)

Assuming they operated at optimal efficiency for 17 to 18 years, instead of at maybe 50% efficiency if you are lucky and kept up with the cleaning. And assuming the panels didn't need replacing in 5-10 years. And assuming the batteries didn't need replacing in 3-7 years.
Posted by: krakatoa

Yep.  I was being as generous as possible.  Not to mention the increased home insurance rate for having $35,000 worth of breakable glass on my roof.  Hail is a bitch and I think the insurance companies know that.

Posted by: Dang at August 31, 2011 01:38 PM (TXKVh)

98 And I expect to hire way way more than a thousand workers.

Posted by: Warren Buffet at August 31, 2011 01:38 PM (le5qc)

99 >>Who is responsible for auditing these companies to find out where the hell all of our money went? Bankruptcy judge.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 31, 2011 01:38 PM (TMB3S)

100 If  these yingaha's made an affordable hydrogen convertor suitable for private use, affordable and compact then they would have something

Meet Mr. Fusion.

Posted by: Doc Brown at August 31, 2011 01:39 PM (QKKT0)

101 Maybe they could have stayed open a wee bit longer if they hadn't spent frickin' $700 million on the production facility. I know that it's high-tech shit, but I find it hard to believe that it'd require around 3/4 of a billion smackeroos just to build the factory.

I don't think their business model was long term growth. It was to get as much money up front, go bankrupt,liquidate assets. Somebody walked away with a lot of money and no accountability.

Posted by: befuddled at August 31, 2011 01:39 PM (xJU23)

102 It was posted here some months ago, but someone (WUWT, maybe?) had an explanation of why there's just not enough energy density in solar power to make it viable.

That doesn't sound right. Or maybe it does, if the author is English.

I'd have to track it down, because the math seems off. Solar is almost viable in SoCal and Arizona. I don't know about anywhere else.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:40 PM (bjRNS)

103

So much other technology has advanced so far, why not solar?

 

because sometimes the sun doesn't shine

Posted by: Jones at August 31, 2011 01:41 PM (8sCoq)

104 Maybe they could have stayed open a wee bit longer if they hadn't spent frickin' $700 million on the production facility. I know that it's high-tech shit, but I find it hard to believe that it'd require around 3/4 of a billion smackeroos just to build the factory.

I don't think their business model was long term growth. It was to get as much money up front, go bankrupt,liquidate assets. Somebody walked away with a lot of money and no accountability.
Posted by: befuddled

A LOT of this money will wind up in democratic coffers.

Posted by: Dang at August 31, 2011 01:41 PM (TXKVh)

105 Personally, I believe solar has a lot of potential. You mean oil, coal, and natural gas? Millions of years of sunshine, harvested and composted for us.

Posted by: t-bird at August 31, 2011 01:41 PM (FcR7P)

106
A couple of years ago, one of you morons had put up a link to a fantastic scientific article about the boondoggle that is most alternative energy. The crux of the article was the energy density of different types of fuels/power generation methods, and predictably, the two densest available power sources were gasoline and nukular.

If anyone remembers where that article came from, it'd be a good time to put it back up.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 31, 2011 01:42 PM (3AuGS)

107 My brother, who also lives in Texas and sells and installs solar systems, loves hail storms.  He calls it bonus time.

I have no doubt that he does.

The tech is at the same level as cell phones and laptop batteries in the late 1970s or early 80s.

And, yet, has been around longer. 

PV may be fine for personal electronics and such.  It may even be fine as a supplement for home use for some regions.  But for too many regions, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.  The northwest: not enough sun to justify the cost.  So-Cal- fires.  The northeast: see also: the northwest.  The southeast: hurricanes.  Texas (which, really, is its own region), hail storms.  The whole north (and even parts into what is "technically" the south) Snow for several months out of the year.

Those are not things technology will ever be able to answer.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:43 PM (8y9MW)

108 Speaking of green.  I read this morning (or late last night, can't remember) a story of how Kansas State University is scrubbing their new "green" football mascots.  Seems as though the ridicule quotient became to high for even lefty college administrators.

Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at August 31, 2011 01:44 PM (k0vGp)

109 ...So after 17-18 years,  the solar panels would begin to pay for themselves. Posted by: Dang at August 31, 2011 06:27 PM (TXKVh) This^^ My cousin installs solar and quoted me a similar price. When I broke it down for her, showing with math that the panels would start to pay for themselves right about the time they are estimated to be due for replacement. Her response was, "yeah, but think about what you'll have done for the environment". Her business would be belly up without taxpayer subsidies. She squeals with delight whenever sone new program gets passed. People don't buy these unless they are Bill Nye, Ed Begely Jr. or willing to allow their neighbors subsidize it.

Posted by: Rex Harrison's Hat at August 31, 2011 01:44 PM (cw5u9)

110
Ah, AllenG remembers that article.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 31, 2011 01:44 PM (3AuGS)

111 I don't think their business model was long term growth. It was to get as much money up front, go bankrupt,liquidate assets. Somebody walked away with a lot of money and no accountability.
Posted by: befuddled

And I bet they have a nice little place in the Caymans too.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 31, 2011 01:44 PM (iYbLN)

112 "Green Jobs" is back door reparations/social justice/wealth redistribution/socialism. For every dollar we spend on actual energy, we spend another $10 to support the hopes and dreams of Obama and his minions. Let's just get used to it.

Posted by: befuddled at August 31, 2011 01:45 PM (xJU23)

113 because sometimes the sun doesn't shine

Exactly. One of the hold-ups is storage technology, and the most promising (conversion to natural gas) make enviros twitch.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:46 PM (bjRNS)

114 Speaking of green.  I read this morning (or late last night, can't remember) a story of how Kansas State University is scrubbing their new "green" football mascots.  Seems as though the ridicule quotient became to high for even lefty college administrators. Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist

I saw a picture this morning.  Fucking hilarious.  I was hoping to watch the first game and wait for the rotten fruit to come flying from the stands square at these idiots.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 31, 2011 01:46 PM (iYbLN)

115 Speaking of green.  I read this morning (or late last night, can't remember) a story of how Kansas State University is scrubbing their new "green" football mascots.  Seems as though the ridicule quotient became to high for even lefty college administrators.

Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at August 31, 2011 06:44 PM (k0vGp)

 

yeah, the mascot looked like an enormous alley cat that was subjected to cosmic radiation, comic-book style, and became a monster

Posted by: Jones at August 31, 2011 01:48 PM (8sCoq)

116

because sometimes the sun doesn't shine

natural gas- it lights every time

Posted by: Jones at August 31, 2011 01:49 PM (8sCoq)

117 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 31, 2011 06:44 PM (3AuGS)

Not sure if this is the one, but it's saying the same thing.

Someone with the keys to the side-bar should post it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 31, 2011 01:49 PM (8y9MW)

118 Another Vaunted Green Jobs Plant, Shutters, like Obama, is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure

Posted by: No Whining at August 31, 2011 01:49 PM (Wqfrr)

119

Arnold = Clueless Poseur of a Gutless Sell-Out.  Sucking up to Washington for table scraps to bail out the Golden State Ghetto is not a "jobs" policy. 

Considering that Uncle Sugar has to go hat-in-hand for its own leftovers, there just wasn't enough sweet green left to feed the dream.

I guess that makes California the Cuba to Obama's Soviet Union.

Nice job, you philandering fuckstick.

PS 104 Dang called it - the 3/4 billion bucks was "flash money" for the big-time dealers back in D.C., and while we're looking for it in the DNC's coffers, lets look for some of that unspent TARP and Porkulus cash while we're at it.

 

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame Knows How Hobbits Feel - He Saw LotR at August 31, 2011 01:50 PM (yK8YH)

120 Solar is almost viable in SoCal and Arizona.

Maybe. If the EcoFascists let you destroy enough habitat to cover the deserts with panels.  Maybe.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 01:51 PM (0vDuM)

121 Off, wordy sock, before the little cretin follows you here.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 31, 2011 01:51 PM (yK8YH)

122 Re: Viability of Solar

Although it's tangentially mentioned above (the need for periodic cleaning), the increased use of water that comes with reliance on solar energy can't be ignored. By the time you have a sufficient number of solar panels to be useful on any significant scale, you're going to need to keep 'em clean and the most environmentally friendly way to do that is with potable water. Not unlike the ethanol from corn scam.

Posted by: Pion Farmer at August 31, 2011 01:56 PM (IzuWw)

123 befuddled: "Green Jobs" is back door reparations/social justice/wealth redistribution/socialism.

Exactly. Hell, Van Jones the Communist and high-ranking Obama adviser was bold enough to lay it all out. The Watermelons were/are using "green tech" as the vehicle.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 31, 2011 01:57 PM (r4t7/)

124 Maybe. If the EcoFascists let you destroy enough habitat to cover the deserts with panels.  Maybe.

Nah. I was just thinking of covering my house -- but I'm lucky, I've got a south-facing roof that'll get good sun. And the house is only one story, so my energy-to-space ratio is 1:1.

But, yeah, if you're thinking industrial-style power-generation, you're right.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 01:59 PM (bjRNS)

125 102 Solar is almost viable in SoCal and Arizona. I don't know about anywhere else.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at August 31, 2011 06:40 PM (bjRNS)

It's viable on the Sun!
Honestly, you bitter clingers are soooooooooooo dumb! And raaaaacist!

Posted by: Albert Gore the Great (as in large and in charge) at August 31, 2011 01:59 PM (Wqfrr)

126 How dare you mock energy sources of color. An attack on Green Energy is the same as lynching a black man. It's racism, straight up. Posted by: Chimichanga Chica at August 31, 2011 06:32 PM (QcFbt) Oil is black. Racist.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 31, 2011 02:02 PM (bxiXv)

127 BTW Solar is viable for some applications. Just not widespread ones. Square peg / round hole as a general energy source.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 31, 2011 02:03 PM (bxiXv)

128 But, yeah, if you're thinking industrial-style power-generation, you're right.

Those serfs who don't have roofs because they've been herded into teeny-tiny high-density cold-water eco-flats have to charge their iPhones so they can get the latest from Ear Leader, you know.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 02:11 PM (0vDuM)

129

BTW Solar is viable for some applications.

Yes. Like cheap LCD calculators.

And uh...

Well....

Uh.....

Well there's calculators.

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 02:15 PM (KeJbA)

130 Oil is black.

Racist.

The proper term is "Dinosaur-American remains", racist.

Posted by: CEO of Solyndra LLC, Democratic Party Donor at August 31, 2011 02:17 PM (SY2Kh)

131
Oil is black.




We prefer to be called hydrocarbon-americans.

You racist.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 31, 2011 02:18 PM (EeYDk)

132
The loan guarantee, the administration's first for a clean energy project, benefited a company whose prime financial backers include Oklahoma oil billionaire George Kaiser, a "bundler" of campaign donations. Kaiser raised at least $50,000 for the president's 2008 election effort.

Kaiser's Argonaut Private Equity and its affiliates were the largest shareholder of Solyndra as it pushed for the IPO. Kaiser's firm remains a "significant financial backer of Solyndra," Solyndra spokesman David Miller confirmed. The Oklahoma oil magnate hosted a 2007 Tulsa fundraiser for Obama and regularly visits White House staff, visitor logs show.

Kaiser did not respond to interview requests made through Solyndra, and his Kaiser-Francis Oil Company in Tulsa said he declined comment. Solyndra's Miller said political ties had no bearing. 

ABC
May 24 2011

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 31, 2011 02:23 PM (EeYDk)

133 A couple of years ago, one of you morons had put up a link to a fantastic scientific article about the boondoggle that is most alternative energy. The crux of the article was the energy density of different types of fuels/power generation methods, and predictably, the two densest available power sources were gasoline and nukular.

Googled e=mc2 alternative energy density.

http://tinyurl.com/449r73t

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 02:25 PM (KeJbA)

134 Kaiser raised at least $50,000

And got $750,000,000?  Hell of a ROI.

Well there's calculators.

And you can run them at night, when it's dark out, if you have a lightbulb powered by coal or nuclear....

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 31, 2011 02:28 PM (0vDuM)

135 What I really need are solar-powered light bulbs.

Posted by: t-bird at August 31, 2011 02:29 PM (FcR7P)

136

Solar powered 1500 MH flood bulbs, on your roof, to power the panels that power the bulbs!

Brilliant! Fuck thermodynamics, that shit is racist. I'm trying to scam hippies here.

It's not so much that it will work, as it is that it will sound like it ought to work to rich boomers.

I am copyrighting that. Don't you touch it.

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 02:33 PM (KeJbA)

137

Wait, even better, I will create a start up, with a plan to install solar-power-lighted solar panels on houses, collect investment money, and then declare bankruptcy, on account of 'unfavorably conditions in physics'.

In the startup phase, I will have a graph that looks like this:

 /

Shit will sell like hotcakes. You see that trend? That's a buy line!

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 02:39 PM (KeJbA)

138 Assuming they operated at optimal efficiency for 17 to 18 years, instead of at maybe 50% efficiency if you are lucky and kept up with the cleaning. And assuming the panels didn't need replacing in 5-10 years. And assuming the batteries didn't need replacing in 3-7 years.

To make PV on the home even conceivable you have to be in one of those states where the power company buys power from you at commercial rates when you have extra. That way you get the benefit without needing batteries. Where I live we don't get hail or extreme weather, so I doubt the panels would need to be replaced that often. It just about pencils out to be break-even, assuming you don't have to upgrade your roof to handle the weight.

PV is better than breakeven for a lot of applications already - if you build a new house in the boonies it might be cheaper than having power run out to your property. It makes sense for pumps that aren't powered, etc. It just doesn't make sense to use for commercial power generation.

Posted by: Ace's liver at August 31, 2011 02:50 PM (1+XRG)

139

Turn Those Machines Back On!

Get Those People Back In Here!!!

 

Posted by: Barack Obama Catain of Pretendustry at August 31, 2011 02:52 PM (5tLpF)

140

When I broke it down for her, showing with math that the panels would start to pay for themselves right about the time they are estimated to be due for replacement.

 

SoCal here. I did the same calculation, and figured out that with CA's electricity rates and the CA solar subsidy (don't know if this still exists) that the solar panels would pay for themselves ... about two weeks before they were due for replacement.

Miss me with that proposition.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 31, 2011 03:30 PM (kdV0/)

141 @106 -

I put up something like that about 4 years ago in an open blog post.  It was during the first big run up on oil prices.  I might still have the info.  If I do I will send it to ace, but here is something else you might find interesting as far as energy goes (and it backs Michelle Bachman's claims regarding energy independence). 

Energy density (not the one I think you are talking about but still makes the point)

Posted by: chad at August 31, 2011 03:37 PM (YmQkS)

142

I put up something like that about 4 years ago in an open blog post.  It was during the first big run up on oil prices.  I might still have the info. 

Still pretty sure this is it.

http://tinyurl.com/449r73t

 

Posted by: Entropy at August 31, 2011 03:45 PM (KeJbA)

143 natural gas- it lights every time

Clean, efficient propane.  The champagne of bottled gases.

Posted by: hank hill at August 31, 2011 04:14 PM (GTbGH)

144 Where's the money?

Posted by: davod at August 31, 2011 04:21 PM (C5U9L)

145 Thanks for sharing, please keep an update about this info. love to read it more. i like this site too much.

Posted by: The Ice Limit AudioBook at August 31, 2011 06:24 PM (qhonK)

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