November 28, 2014

Gentry Liberals Are Going to Force Your Town to Buy Billion-Dollar Toy Trains and There's Nothing You Can Do About It
— Ace

Good piece at the Federalist on gentry liberals' insane insistence on paying hundreds of millions of dollars to install horrifically-outdated streetcars in their towns and cities.

Why do this? Well, I can only think because they've seen streetcars in movies, and think they look Classy. And they might look classy indeed. But then, anyone with any actual experience with streetcars would point out:

1. They're very slow

2. They slow down all vehicular traffic as well

3. They're very dangerous and are responsible for tremendous vehicular and bodily damage every year

4. And they cost a lot of money to provide you with nothing but downsides

But they do look classy, huh? Just like a movie!

I can't help but think gentry liberals do not like buses because The Poors ride buses, and so they're determined to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a dangerous, slow, expensive and very outdated transportation system that they don't associate with The Poors.

I'd like to point out to them that the Poors they're trying to avoid will in fact ride the streetcars too, if available, just as they ride the buses now.

Still, as the article points out, streetcars are really more of a Shelbyville idea.

Posted by: Ace at 10:10 AM | Comments (558)
Post contains 246 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Foist?

Posted by: Cato at November 28, 2014 10:12 AM (3HxZe)

2 But, they love us dearly. It's for our own good, you know.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:13 AM (MQEz6)

3 Horses and buggies are even more quaint.

And so much greener....

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at November 28, 2014 10:15 AM (AC0lD)

4 A streetcar named desperation.


Posted by: EC at November 28, 2014 10:15 AM (doBIb)

5 They've been pushing for a ckufing trolley downtown here since the 1990s. They're talking about it again and they'll probably do it now that the hipsters have taken over the downtown living spaces.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 28, 2014 10:15 AM (oFCZn)

6 If they don't like the current image of buses, then perhaps I could interest them in some double-decker style buses.

They are ever so European.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at November 28, 2014 10:16 AM (AC0lD)

7 Funicular Railways - The Time Is Now. _

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 28, 2014 10:17 AM (4CVLy)

8 Nothing says "I'm poor" quite like riding public transportation. Are the poor gonna give two shits about a shiny new method of getting them from point A to point B in the latest Potemkin Project? It's all about liberals self pleasuring with other peoples money.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:17 AM (zxQ4h)

9 They herd us like cattle.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:17 AM (MQEz6)

10 Because it's so retro, that's why.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 10:18 AM (3mnNh)

11 Choo! Choo!

Posted by: Joe Biden - Conductor at November 28, 2014 10:18 AM (4CVLy)

12 They're very dangerous and are responsible for tremendous vehicular and bodily damage every year ---- That's a feature, not a bug

Posted by: Malthusian liberals at November 28, 2014 10:18 AM (FX0eV)

13 They can only move you around a limited center. Basically you have to be there before the streetcar can take you there.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 10:18 AM (MMC8r)

14 A streetcar named Deficit. Hey DeBolshevik, how goes your war against the horse carriages?

Posted by: Anna Puma at November 28, 2014 10:19 AM (XhS3T)

15 Bring the hobos out to suburbia.

Posted by: fluffy at November 28, 2014 10:19 AM (Ua6T/)

16 reason 4b. it's a jobs program

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:19 AM (PW0WF)

17 "Mono"-Rail!

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 10:19 AM (wjzs6)

18 It's status. Small cities can't build a proper subway, so this is a big public works transportation project that's visible and makes the city look modern and sophisticated.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 28, 2014 10:19 AM (b4b5c)

19 Even Lighter Rail!

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 10:19 AM (MMC8r)

20 AFAIK, most trolleys are not self propelled. The require some kind of overhead electric lines to power the trolley. Just that fact right there brings up a whole raft of different problems.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 10:20 AM (vVSOO)

21 Just make everyone walk. The gentry can have their offices in their homes, or their homes at the office, and servants to tote and fetch things that have to be delivered. It would solve the unemployment problem. This was explained quite clearly by The Prophet Herbert in his seminal work 'Dune'.

Posted by: Terra Incognito at November 28, 2014 10:20 AM (1UWg+)

22 You know, if they make the trolley car big enough, they can fit a Planned Parenthood Clinic in it.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:20 AM (MQEz6)

23 To their credit, the people of Arlington, VA rose up and smote those who wanted these stupid things.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 28, 2014 10:20 AM (659DL)

24 Being old enough to remember actual trolley cars in Los Angeles, I have mixed feelings.

Yeah, they looked really neat. And, when people had different shopping habits -- not just zipping from one mall to the next, but short trips to check out local stores -- they made some sense. The Red Cars in L.A. went all thee way to the suburbs and the beach cities, too.

So yeah, if this was still the 1950s and every family didn't have a zillion cars, I'd kind be for having streetcars. They looked really cool.

But billions of dollars'-worth of cool, especially when their purpose is as outdated as the old ways of city life? Nope.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 28, 2014 10:20 AM (yAC3X)

25 It's because a streetcar can only go where it is told to go. They are fucking fascists.

Posted by: blaster at November 28, 2014 10:20 AM (Rx8ML)

26 Streetcars don't belch out plumes of diesel smoke so they are better than buses.  Science!

Posted by: Count de Monet, Person of Pallor at November 28, 2014 10:21 AM (JO9+V)

27 Belatedly, I remain ever thankful for this website, those that contribute to it and those that keep it up and running. You all help me stay sane and in decent spirits during this time of the One.

Posted by: MK Z in VA (formerly Z as in Jersey) at November 28, 2014 10:22 AM (KTo9d)

28 Obamapho'....do doo dooo Obamapho'...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:22 AM (/4AZU)

29 Hoverboards? I bet they have them and just don't want us to know.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:22 AM (MQEz6)

30 Since streetcars are electric, and the feds are busy shutting down power plants, they better come up with a way to run them on solar or wind power. Or maybe they'll be pulled by teams of serfs.

Posted by: rickl at November 28, 2014 10:22 AM (zoehZ)

31 Yep, streetcars are retarded. But they look all old-timey and the trust-fund daughters of America thing they would be neat.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:22 AM (zwdxl)

32 Well if the liberal elites can take their old college roommate on a five block Streetcar outing to the nearest brewpub once every five years, it's worth it.

Posted by: lowandslow at November 28, 2014 10:23 AM (7Nq2G)

33 Cars represent freedom and we can't have that for the great unwashed. Even buses are too free- wheeling. Rail is very restricted in where it can go. Our betters are all about controlling the heaving mases out there which is rather ironic in light of the Ferguson riots. The lower classes can burn down a city and it's no biggie but they cannot be trusted to choose their own mode of transport.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 10:23 AM (3mnNh)

34 Lickshaws!

Posted by: Hu Jintao at November 28, 2014 10:23 AM (lG2E3)

35 We have trolleys in Philadelphia. You can have ours.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 28, 2014 10:23 AM (4CVLy)

36 Neil DeGrasse Tyson was born on a trolley car.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:23 AM (MQEz6)

37 It's yet another boondoggle program to shovel money to their cronies, like SunRail here in Florida.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (mx5oN)

38 Cars represent freedom and we can't have that for the great unwashed. That, and the more people they force into cities the more people will wind up voting Democrat.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (MMC8r)

39 "I can't help but think gentry liberals do not like buses because The Poors ride buses," I think you are absolutely right.

Posted by: dedomeno at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (UccCH)

40
I lost my virginity on a trolley in San Francisco!

Posted by: Margaret Cho at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (3/wAJ)

41 Interesting that there was no mention in the article of Arlington, VA cancelling its planned streetcar project along Columbia Pike shortly after the election after years of planning and promotion.  The official excuse is pretty much that a non-Democrat was elected for the first time to the council since 1983 and he was anti-streetcar (he was first elected in a byelection earlier in the year) and it spooked the pro-streetcar types on the council. 


But I personally think it also included a combination of the streetcar not going anywhere useful anytime soon, despite the something like half a billion dollar price tag, and witnessing the financial and planning debacle that the DC streetcar project has become, leaving it in a position of having two streetcar lines going nowhere overly useful pretty much never (also not mentioned in the article).

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (64d6n)

42 Here in Galveston, there are streetcar tracks downtown, and the ones they had before Hurricane Ike were diesel-powered, direct to the drive wheels, just like a city bus. But without the directional flexibility of a bus. Anyway, those tracks account for about one or two motorcycle or bicycle fatalities per year, as well as uncounted twisted ankles and other such injuries. They don't do any good for the tourists' horse drawn buggies n' carriages, either. Which are even slower, but at least can steer around an obstruction if need be. San Antonio has bus-type trolley buses, which are styled to look like trolleys, with the same interior/exterior layout. But, they're built on bus chassis, run on regular pneumatic tires, and can do all that crazy cool bus shit. Like steer around an obstruction. People love 'em. They look cool, but they don't fcuk up the works in the process. Jim Sunk New Dawn Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (7x4lH)

43 #5 -- The Gentry Liberals demand toy trains, then buy up all the prime real estate along the routes to fatten their own bank accounts.

Follow the money... always follow the money.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at November 28, 2014 10:24 AM (/mTq0)

44 This time they've really gone off the rails.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 10:25 AM (NeFrd)

45 KISS ME ON THE BUS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDH6W-bU8wo

Posted by: REPLACEMENTS at November 28, 2014 10:25 AM (wjzs6)

46 This idea is related to the cheesy, mass-produced "clock towers" and retro-street lamps that have been popping up in towns and cities in my neck of the woods. They are ugly, and dysfunctional--the clocks never work and the lamps don't throw enough light--and the largely black and Latino populations that live in these places could give two-shits about the attempt to make these hellholes look like  Currier and Ives Christmas card......

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 10:26 AM (LXPcw)

47 >>>Our betters are all about controlling the heaving mases out there which is rather ironic in light of the Ferguson riots. The lower classes can burn down a city and it's no biggie but they cannot be trusted to choose their own mode of transport. . . .It's like the movie Purge. They let them purge once in awhile to keep them in line.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 28, 2014 10:26 AM (Hdbf3)

48 Trebuchets. Faster, cleaner, and quieter. Plus the people who are douchey enough to use them disappear through attrition.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 10:26 AM (MMC8r)

49 I'd like to point out to them that the Poors they're trying to avoid will in fact ride the streetcars too, if available, just as they ride the buses now. The Gentry are not actually going to ride the streetcars either, they just like the idea of the streetcars. They'll take a cab door to door at the least. More likely have their driver take them.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:27 AM (rwI+c)

50 Well if the liberal elites can take their old college roommate on a five block Streetcar outing to the nearest brewpub once every five years, it's worth it. That's depressingly accurate. I would like to just point and laugh, but I know I will be footing the bill.

Posted by: fluffy at November 28, 2014 10:27 AM (Ua6T/)

51 Now, I would ride a Futurama Tube system though.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:27 AM (rwI+c)

52 The most effective public transportation is ... a bus. But buses are gross and suck and have the Poors on them. When the robo-car is perfected it's gonna kill off most public transportation.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:27 AM (zwdxl)

53 Some people can't sleep at night knowing you can get in your car and go anywhere you want. Control. Control. Control.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:28 AM (MQEz6)

54 San Antonio has bus-type trolley buses, which are styled to look like trolleys, with the same interior/exterior layout. But, they're built on bus chassis, run on regular pneumatic tires, and can do all that crazy cool bus shit. Like steer around an obstruction.

People love 'em. They look cool, but they don't fcuk up the works in the process.



Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at November 28, 2014 03:24 PM (7x4lH)




Old Town Alexandria, VA has the same for its free tourist bus that goes along the main drag (King Street).

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:28 AM (64d6n)

55 "21 AFAIK, most trolleys are not self propelled. The require some kind of overhead electric lines to power the trolley. Just that fact right there brings up a whole raft of different problems." These power grids all over the city look really ugly. We went to Europe on holiday this summer and this wiring all over old towns cities made me think of a suffocating spider web. I couldn't wait to get out into the countryside.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 10:28 AM (3mnNh)

56 What's with all the fucking Roundabouts, nowadays? Seems like every other road construction project includes one of these ridiculous things.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 10:28 AM (wjzs6)

57 Watch as Houston bankrupts itself with its stupid train system.

Posted by: Count de Monet, Person of Pallor at November 28, 2014 10:28 AM (JO9+V)

58 #1 predictor of voting behavior is density. The more dense a place is, the more it votes for Democrats and Socialism. It's why the Left demonizes Suburbia and the evil, hatred "Sprawl". Sprawl is good. Sprawl is freedom.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:29 AM (zwdxl)

59 You know what it's really about? It's about the elite getting Other People's cars off the road in order to reduce traffice. The easiest way to reduce traffic for elites is to jam Other People into train cars like they're sardines.

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:29 AM (PW0WF)

60 What's with all the fucking Roundabouts, nowadays? -- I spend a summer in England and the roundabouts were just soooo cute and amazing and european.

Posted by: Trust Fund Hipster Chick at November 28, 2014 10:30 AM (zwdxl)

61 We went to Europe on holiday this summer

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 03:28 PM (3mnNh)

Eurotrash.

Go back to where you belong.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 10:30 AM (Zu3d9)

62 Denver's Light Rail... It all feeds into downtown, near the Sports Stadiums... So what... hundreds of millions spent to direct traffic for Sports Stadiums, and the Businesses in Downtown Denver... Because if you take it anywhere else? You pretty much need a car to get to your destination.

Posted by: The Big Bad Wolf at November 28, 2014 10:31 AM (f0pWu)

63 Worse than the 7 miles of light rail we recently got here... it goes nowhere practical (not ODU, not the Navy base), was WAY over budget & time, and only serves to make our betters feel good about themselves.

Posted by: shredded chi at November 28, 2014 10:31 AM (UC5Sf)

64 I lost my virginity on a trolley in San Francisco! Posted by: Margaret Cho = == = == = Anal doesn't count, Sweetie. And you never came back to give me that second dollar you promised.

Posted by: ashamed hobo at November 28, 2014 10:32 AM (Ua6T/)

65 They installed trolleys down here a while back. They were popular when they were new. Now, they just get in the way.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at November 28, 2014 10:32 AM (g4VbG)

66 the late Mayor Mumbles Menino single-handedly wiped out nearly all the parking places in Boston THEY don't want YOU to drive your car into Boston -- it inconveniencs the elite.

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:32 AM (PW0WF)

67 Jim Sunk New Dawn Galveston, TX Did you get your FEG, Jim? Nice?

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:32 AM (rwI+c)

68 I have been living in the Twin Cities for the last 3 months. I take the new "Green Line" train into work. I work at the university, it's one of the few places where parking is prohibitive. I've enjoyed it more or less, but there's one thing that's magnificently stupid about having public transportation in the Twin Cities. It gets cold in Minnesota. Who the hell wants to stand outside waiting for a train (or bus)? The advantage to the light rail is that it comes every 10 minutes no matter what. So you don't have to freeze to death waiting for a bus. But you know who rides the train and NOT the bus? The poors. You can get on the train without anyone stopping you. There's no way to get on a bus without paying (or showing a pass) but light rail is enforced by transit cops checking passes. There is a fine system, but how do you enforce it on the homeless? I also wouldn't recommend women taking the train alone at night. Easily the least safe I felt there was coming back from a baseball game.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 28, 2014 10:32 AM (b4b5c)

69


I have reservation about letting awful people like you on these streetcars.
The bus or walking is good enough for you.

Posted by: Anna Wintour at November 28, 2014 10:32 AM (dBK22)

70 60--exactly. I remember when SUV's began to catch on, and as long as it was rich liberal yuppies zipping around in Range Rovers and Land Cruisers, everything was cool. But when the masses started driving Explorers and Suburbans, it had to be demonized if not stopped.

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 10:33 AM (LXPcw)

71 Don't the Japanese have trolley cars that go over 300 mph?

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:33 AM (MQEz6)

72 Some people can't sleep at night knowing you can get in your car and go anywhere you want. Control. Control. Control. That's the really sick part. If we could find a way to get that out of politics, we'd be golden.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 10:33 AM (0HooB)

73 I went to San Fran on my honeymoon, then Hawaii. Rode the cable car in San Fran two blocks to Fishermans Wharf. Kinda okay for two blocks. Better was Hawaii where we rented a peda cab. Human power for the win. Dude did not get tired, he coulda gone all night. So that's my vote for retro transport.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:34 AM (zxQ4h)

74 "31 Since streetcars are electric, and the feds are busy shutting down power plants, they better come up with a way to run them on solar or wind power. Or maybe they'll be pulled by teams of serfs." They'll be the Flintstone buses with holes in the floor for your feet to push the bus along.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 10:34 AM (3mnNh)

75 I hate to disagree with you but trolleys are a significant step up from buses and in no way outdated. They hold more people, attract higher ridership, real estate invested, and are in fact safer. The electric motors used them are much more capable than compressed natural gas and diesel powered engines in buses. The low floor design and boarded of the trolleys is far more accessible to persons with disabilities as well. Also, in cities which already have bad air quality having the power generation source located elsewhere is helpful. The only people that have safety issues with trolleys ARE FUCKING IDIOTS THAT CAN'T SEE A TRUCK SIZED VEHICLE. If they die from a collision with a TRUCK SIZED VEHICLE CARRYING HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE that's called Darwin in action. In the early 20th century trolleys and subways were invented to get rid off the thousands of horse drawn carriages clogging the streets of cities. It worked great from 1880-1940 until someone got the great idea of reintroducing the problematic carriages powered by gasoline to clog the streets of cities. If people want to drive, they should live in a city. The whole point of having a dense area is so that people can walk and don't need to drive. Surburbs were invented for a reason and gutting cities to attempt to suburbanize them doesn't work. It just kills the cities and turns them into dysfunctional welfare filled shitholes.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 10:34 AM (A1Dcl)

76 What's everybody railing about?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 10:35 AM (NeFrd)

77 I like Rice-A-Roni. Yaaaaaaaaaay!

Posted by: "Special Ed" Biden at November 28, 2014 10:35 AM (Dqsg6)

78 Why am I thinking of that Seinfeld episode with the hobo rickshaws?

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:35 AM (rwI+c)

79 Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 03:32 PM (PW0WF)

Mumbles was a piker compared to Bloomberg. He fcuked up NY so badly, with his insane traffic planning, bicycle lanes, pedestrian walkways DOWN THE MIDDLE OF FCUKING BROADWAY!

I hate him.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 10:36 AM (Zu3d9)

80 >>>the late Mayor Mumbles Menino single-handedly wiped out nearly all the parking places in Boston

THEY don't want YOU to drive your car into Boston -- it inconveniencs the elite.

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 03:32 PM (PW0WF)<<<



Thank woo.

Posted by: zombie Mumbles at November 28, 2014 10:36 AM (Dqsg6)

81 Roundabouts are designed by misanthropes who want to decrease the surplus population.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 28, 2014 10:36 AM (bRm4u)

82 Toby. Gunshop ordered it for me, should be here next week. If it proves reliable after 500 rounds, it's destined as a truck-gun, replacing the too-expensive-to-lose Colt 1911 Commander. I far prefer the .45, but I'd hate to see it languish for years in some police evidence room, which is where all guns go to rust upon being used for their (hope never used for) purpose. Jim Sunk New Dawn Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at November 28, 2014 10:37 AM (7x4lH)

83 I think I just got my first "perk". Dude from work texted and asked if I wanted tix to the Wake Forest game tonight. It's a non-conference game, against Delaware State, people aren't exactly going to be beating down the doors to get in, but it will be my first chance to see Danny Manning coach, and get a look at the three and four star rookies he brought in.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 28, 2014 10:37 AM (2cS/G)

84 Dayton OH has an electric trolley system as part of its bus system, which is actually quite good in the city core. Not so hot in even the inner ring burbs like where im at.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at November 28, 2014 10:37 AM (RubNX)

85 Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 03:35 PM (NeFrd)

Having a tough time keeping track?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 10:37 AM (Zu3d9)

86 If people want to drive, they should live in a city. The whole point of having a dense area is so that people can walk and don't need to drive. Surburbs were invented for a reason and gutting cities to attempt to suburbanize them doesn't work. It just kills the cities and turns them into dysfunctional welfare filled shitholes. Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:34 PM (A1Dcl) Huh? Cars cause cities to be shitholes?

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:37 AM (MQEz6)

87 I hate him. Save it up. You'll probably get to loathe BeBlaso even more.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (bRm4u)

88 They're installing dedicated bus-only lanes downtown here, which is an even more screwed-up idea. How can restricting traffic on the few roads available improve anything?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (0HooB)

89 Also worth mentioning that all the street railways in the country were successful PROFITABLE PRIVATE COMPANIES until the Feds decided in their infinite wisdom that those companies couldn't generate their own electricity. When then lead to government takeovers, a conspiracy by big government backed GM to kill transit, and subsidies.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (A1Dcl)

90 Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:34 PM (A1Dcl)




One of the big problems with the systems that are being built today is that they're going nowhere useful. 

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (64d6n)

91 You can tell public transportation is favored by liberals because, wherever it's built, the main stops are places with difficulties in parking -- stadiums, airports, universities -- places that upper middle class liberals go to when they bother with the city.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (b4b5c)

92 Hey, want to watch 62 year old Mickey Rourke win a fixed boxing match in Russia against a 30 year old dude? Those vicious old man body blow KO punches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyfGGxFXRCk

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (zwdxl)

93 AFAIK, most trolleys are not self propelled. The require some kind of overhead electric lines to power the trolley. Just that fact right there brings up a whole raft of different problems.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 03:20 PM (vVSOO)


A trolley, by definition, is not self-propelled. It has an electric motor, and gets its power from overhead wires. But trolleys don't have to be on rails. There are trolley buses. Vancouver, BC has had them for years. They are fast, quiet, and cheap to run, and don't belch out clouds of black Diesel smoke. And they last damn near forever. They were still running 50-year old ones last time i rode one. Flyer Industries builds trolley buses now.



Trolley buses are part of the traffic, and move with it, as do Diesel buses. They just get power from overhead wires. Add a new route? Takes a few days to string the wires. Of course, some people find the wires unsightly.



But if we have to have mass transit at all, trolley buses are by far the best way to provide it in built-up areas.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (tvB15)

94 Incidentally.... went to a Hole Foods here in Lynnfield, MA and car in the lot had this bumper sticker: Tesla > Edison I paused for a moment to profile the kind of person who would go to the trouble of buying and adhering such a sticker on their automobile.

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:38 AM (PW0WF)

95 83 Posted by: Jim at November 28, 2014 03:37 PM (7x4lH)

Jim I was very happy with my FEG P9rk...

nice 9mm only fear is wobbly parts chain.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:39 AM (/4AZU)

96 But if we have to have mass transit at all, trolley buses are by far the best way to provide it in built-up areas.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 28, 2014 03:38 PM (tvB15)




Edmonton has them too here and there.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:40 AM (64d6n)

97 Toby. Gunshop ordered it for me, should be here next week. I hope it's good. I ordered a second one the 24th and it arrived today. If anything, it's better than the first one. Cleaner holster, both magazines match, and this one came with the cleaning rod. It has no holster wear at all and has bits cosmo on it. This one may never have been issued.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:40 AM (rwI+c)

98 I was beyond shocked that Austinites voted against the stupid rail to nowhere plan. Score one point for sanity.

Posted by: Jonathan Swift at November 28, 2014 10:40 AM (ikOLM)

99 Trebuchets. Faster, cleaner, and quieter. Plus the people who are douchey enough to use them disappear through attrition. /narrows eyes Centurion, load the thermobarics on trebuchet #6. We have a heretic to burn.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at November 28, 2014 10:40 AM (m9V0o)

100 I paused for a moment to profile the kind of person who would go to the trouble of buying and adhering such a sticker on their automobile.

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 03:38 PM (PW0WF)




There are probably a bunch of people who see that bumper sticker and wonder who Tesla was.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (64d6n)

101 Call me a RINO, but I appreciated Salt Lake City's trolley system.

Posted by: Knemon at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (orIXZ)

102 The best bumper sticker I ever saw at Whole Foods was "Eat Meat and die." Because if you're a vegan, I suppose, you'll live forever.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (bRm4u)

103 #87 cars cause cities to become shitholes by replacing revenue generating property with tax sucking dead space. Wider roads = more maintenance costs directly to the municipality, parking lots & garages generate less revenue in property taxes and aren't big economic multipliers compared to occupied residential/commercial/industrial properties. The cities in the 1950s which gutted themselves for highways decimated their tax base for commuters which never made up for the lost revenue. The societal damage from carving up neighborhoods and business districts for transient infrastructure didn't help either.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (A1Dcl)

104 85 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at November 28, 2014 03:37 PM (RubNX)

ah our friend the RTA....

great fun in lightning storms

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (/4AZU)

105 They recently finished our second light-rail line connecting Minneapolis with St. Paul.  It runs right along a perfectly good bus route.  Naturally, they cancelled the buses that ran along the same route.

I know it cost over a billion dollars to build and has increased congestion on the street it occupies.  Since it runs right by the University of Minnesota they just shut the street down entirely (except for police and buses and emergency vehicles) in that area and made it a pedestrian mall.

We already had a light-rail system connecting the Mall of America with downtown Minneapolis.  That was already a money-loser.  They continue the process of encouraging the building of apartments right next to the stations.

Both trains cost a lot more to run than is paid for in the fare.  The buses are significantly cheaper to operate.

They will plan your life whether you want it or not.  The progress towards the worker's paradise continues unabated.

Posted by: cranky-d at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (HxvuD)

106 Nebraska beats Iowa in OT. 

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (64d6n)

107 I don't want to ride a bus or even a subway with the poor masses, nor do I want to ride a freaking trolley.  I demand a sedan chair carried by 12 nubiles. 

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (4nR9/)

108 The gentry wont ride on them. Those are for the plebes to get to their container homes.

Posted by: madamex at November 28, 2014 10:41 AM (1zsKV)

109 Our City's FB page has GUSHED about how Awesome streetcars would be at least three times this year.  I assume the writer that posts for the city is a 20 yr old idealist or some-such.  They also think moar bike lanes would be the best thing evah!  ( Arlington, Texas)

Posted by: Yip at November 28, 2014 10:42 AM (84SRe)

110 My main question is -- does Mickey Rourke realize the fight was fixed? Or does he really think he just knocked out a 29 year dude with a body blow? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyfGGxFXRCk

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:43 AM (zwdxl)

111 Nothing wrong with Hobo powered rickshaws. Tipping with a bottle of MD 20/20 is way cheaper, anyway. Jim Sunk New Dawn Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at November 28, 2014 10:43 AM (7x4lH)

112 104 #87 cars cause cities to become shitholes by replacing revenue generating property with tax sucking dead space. Wider roads = more maintenance costs directly to the municipality, parking lots & garages generate less revenue in property taxes and aren't big economic multipliers compared to occupied residential/commercial/industrial properties. The cities in the 1950s which gutted themselves for highways decimated their tax base for commuters which never made up for the lost revenue. The societal damage from carving up neighborhoods and business districts for transient infrastructure didn't help either. Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:41 PM (A1Dcl) Perhaps that means the cities spend too much money. Perhaps it means cities themselves are out-dated.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 10:43 AM (MQEz6)

113 The best bumper sticker I ever saw at Whole Foods was "Eat Meat and die." Because if you're a vegan, I suppose, you'll live forever. My fave: "Eat right, exercise, die anyway"

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 10:43 AM (0HooB)

114 "The Gentry are not actually going to ride the streetcars either, they just like the idea of the streetcars. They'll take a cab door to door at the least. More likely have their driver take them." They're doing this for your own good so you must then allow them a few luxuries. It's the same with the food pyramid advocacy by the smart people. Carbohydrates must remain the largest part of the pyramid yet they will only eat proteins and non-carb vegetables, smoked salmon on a slice of cucumber.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 10:44 AM (3mnNh)

115 The societal damage -- That's a bullshit phrase if I ever heard one.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:44 AM (zwdxl)

116 Feds decided in their infinite wisdom that those companies couldn't generate their own electricity. Feds decided in their infinite wisdom that those companies wouldn't hire their hack relatives.

Posted by: madamex at November 28, 2014 10:44 AM (1zsKV)

117 Tesla > Edison
------
A physics type of geek? That debate has been raging for years.
Sorta like Crossbows > Longbows

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 10:44 AM (vVSOO)

118 Since streetcars are electric, and the feds are busy shutting down power plants, they better come up with a way to run them on solar or wind power.

Or maybe they'll be pulled by teams of serfs.

Posted by: rickl at November 28, 2014 03:22 PM (zoehZ)



Heh. Calgary's "rapid" light rail transit system, called the C-train, which I call a streetcar, because it runs down the middle of, you guessed it, a street, claims to run on "green" energy produced by wind turbines down south in Crow's Nest Pass. If it truly did, then the trains would slow to a halt whenever the wind quit blowing there. What they are really doing is paying extra for power that has a "green" cachet, but if the wind turbines stop spinning, the streetcars still move, using power made by burning coal. It is kabuki theater.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 28, 2014 10:44 AM (tvB15)

119 @7: So, verily, a Ye Old Doublet Shame Train. The deuce, you say!

Posted by: ArmChair in sin at November 28, 2014 10:44 AM (BnOvL)

120 Scratch the idea for the peda cab. While humans appear to be a 'renewable' resource, when exerted they inhale air and then exhale huge quantities of CO2, thereby contributing to global warming.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (zxQ4h)

121 They'll be the Flintstone buses with holes in the floor for your feet to push the bus along. Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 03:34 PM (3mnNh) **** The good news- Free lunch with a round trip ticket. The bad news? After lunch the Mayor wants to go paragliding.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (NeFrd)

122 #91, I agree the issue with most new trolley system being built is that they are politically motivated white elephants. The best routes for them are typically in place of existing overcapacity bus routes or historic trolley routes which have the space for dedicated right of ways. Similar to high speed rail money going to the middle of nowhere in CA instead of being put into improving the existing profitable Northeast Corridor, politicians ruin everything. If transit authorities were privatized again, had the unions exorcised, didn't have a million regulations left over from the 1930s handicapping them, and were allowed to generate their own power, things would change dramatically.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (A1Dcl)

123 Yeah, definitely trains. Yeah. Of course, of course, there are roadsandbridges. Yeah, definitely a lot of trains. Wapner's on at 3.

OH OH! OH OH!

Posted by: Joe Rainman Biden [/i][/b] at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (s9AKD)

124 Posted by: cranky-d at November 28, 2014 03:41 PM (HxvuD) ************* How many University Avenue Businesses actually survived the Street closure?

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (32Ze2)

125 now, now, gents, you know how uncomfortable Ace gets when y'all talk about your gundicks

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (PW0WF)

126 Oh, and this: "The Capital City Street Railway, also known as the Lightning Route, was the first city-wide system of streetcars established in Montgomery, Alabama, United States, on April 15, 1886.[2][3] This early technology was developed by the Belgian-American inventor Charles Joseph Van Depoele. James Gaboury was the owner of the horse-drawn system that was converted to electricity. One trolley route ended at the Cloverdale neighborhood. This early public transportation system made Montgomery one of the first cities to "depopulate" its residential areas at the city center through transportation-facilitated suburban development. The system operated for exactly 50 years, until April 15, 1936, when it was retired in a big ceremony and replaced by buses. GENTRY LIBERALS Outpaced By Those Damned Rednecks What Now, Bitchez?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (m9V0o)

127 Tesla was a fraud.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (zwdxl)

128 Arlington VA, another moonbat haven, just dropped their trolley fantasy when a Republican was actually elected to the Board on an anti trolley platform.

Posted by: Jean at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (apS1l)

129 My sole liberal friend has been involved in public transport and railroads for decades, and recently was organizing a meeting of railroad people to discuss safety issues (primarily what to do about numbnuts who try, often unsuccessfully, to beat trains across level crossings). It turns out all the participants drove to the meeting. I asked why they didn't take the train.

"It's too slow."

Oh.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (oKE6c)

130 God, not flipping light rail! They keep trying to force it on Vancouver WA. Get this: they gave Tri-Met (located in Portland OR) imminent domain over property in WA state for the purpose of putting in this POS. WA state voters have voted down light rail every chance we've had to vote on it. They planned to put in a new bridge across the Columbia, plus light rail into downtown. That's a place that no one shops in because all the growth has been on the East side of town. It is a zombie project that will not go away. And, even though we aren't building that bridge, that imminent domain still exists.

Posted by: notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 10:45 AM (5HBd1)

131 you know how uncomfortable Ace gets when y'all talk about your gundicks We used to get a weekly gundick thread, or so the legend goes..

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:46 AM (rwI+c)

132 We have a streetcar in beautiful downtown Kenosha. It's the trolley to nowhere. It makes a circle route where no one wants to go. I've never seen a rider on it except during Kenosha Festival days. It's stupid.

Posted by: grammie winger at November 28, 2014 10:46 AM (3B+O8)

133 I rode the St Charles street cars on a regular basis when I lived in New Orleans. Very picturesque on the outside, but pretty much like any bus on the inside with the bonus of hot in the summer cold in the winter. Never remember seeing any fancy types on board even though it ran through the nicest part of the city.

The operating costs were higher than the bus system but people of the city are devoted to it for cultural reasons.

Posted by: deadman at November 28, 2014 10:47 AM (Zf0v/)

134 Trolley buses?
Get back to me when you get cable cars, the most expensive and dangerous way to go anywhere. Every year SF pays out millions to people who are maimed by those things.

Posted by: navybrat at November 28, 2014 10:47 AM (JgC5a)

135 I paused for a moment to profile the kind of person who would go to the trouble of buying and adhering such a sticker on their automobile. Posted by: soothie

**cough**

Posted by: Dr. S. Cooper at November 28, 2014 10:47 AM (4nR9/)

136 #116, societal damage isn't a bullshit phrase. Having the government come in and wipe out or wall off your neighborhood so that other people that don't even life in your city can pass through as fast as possible is terrible and has had significant lasting impacts on many urban areas in the US. It was typically used as a "FUCK YOU" to poor and immigrant areas not in favor with the city government.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 10:48 AM (A1Dcl)

137 "It's too slow." ...for me but not too slow for thee

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:48 AM (PW0WF)

138 132 Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 03:46 PM (rwI+c)


so Ace is uncomfy with every post here after ~110 posts?

Good to know....

we'll call them Bananas...

Jim I have found the FEG P9rk brand of Banana is very reliable and a good fruitsmith can install nice night sights on it along with polishing the action...

and everyone knows a well polished banana feeds better

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:48 AM (/4AZU)

139 There are probably a bunch of people who see that bumper sticker and wonder who Tesla was. It's too bad we can't peruse his designs, especially the one for the collection of electricity from the atmosphere. IIRC, all his work essentially disappeared when he died (cue X-Files theme music).

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 10:49 AM (0HooB)

140 The progress towards the worker's overeducated useless urbanite paradise continues unabated. Fixed, 'cause this sure as hell ain't for any worker I know...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at November 28, 2014 10:49 AM (m9V0o)

141

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:41 PM (A1Dcl)



I'm speaking as someone who has watched the DC and Arlington, VA streetcar projects.  The Arlington project was to be built on existing road and effectively take away a lane of traffic on a major artery.  Plus when you got off the streetcar at either end you'd still need a bus for who knows how many years. 


One of the DC projects (H Street NE) is also effectively taking away a lane of traffic.  Sure, it's along a rapidly developing street that has some a long way in the past 10 years or so after the '68 riots, but it's just going up and down H Street.  Heck, they couldn't even get it to end at a decent spot in Union Station, which has a Metro stop, so someone who wants to go from the Metro at Union Station to the streetcar is going to have to walk a bit.  Useful.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:49 AM (64d6n)

142 137 Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:48 PM (A1Dcl)

ICYMI the Feds are now trying AGAIN to declare EVERY mud puddle in America their province....

so the whole "injurious out of control shitheads" thing has gone nuclear.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:50 AM (/4AZU)

143 There's another problem with light rail in cities: it spreads crime. We lived in St. Louis when it put in a light rail system to "help poor people [euphemism alert] get out to wealthier communities [another euphemism alert] to find jobs."


What it in fact did was help ghetto rats find new prey in places they hadn't previously plundered [a euphemism-free statement]. Shortly before we left I saw a map of the increase in crime in St. Louis county, and it exactly matched ... the light rail route.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:50 AM (oKE6c)

144 137--look up Robert Moses...

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 10:50 AM (LXPcw)

145 Dunno if anyone's mentioned it above, but... check out Detroit's M1 light rail project. Private industry. Already underway. Could actually be worth something. But...private industry. So that would be different.

Posted by: Motown Mope- restore the roar! (this week anyway) at November 28, 2014 10:50 AM (pHHJX)

146 If you want progress, get some of those trolleys powered by people drinking beer. I forget what they call them. THAT is some pretty cool stuff.

Posted by: navybrat at November 28, 2014 10:50 AM (JgC5a)

147 Having a tough time keeping track? Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 03:37 PM (Zu3d9) *** Yeah. I lost my train of thought momentarily.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 10:51 AM (NeFrd)

148 Sven, if you have a minute, go down site with me to the Top Headlines thread and talk to me about the safety on the FEG. I'm not sure mine is acting correctly.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 10:51 AM (rwI+c)

149 I paused for a moment to profile the kind of person who would go to the trouble of buying and adhering such a sticker on their automobile. A Tesla fan. 'Signs, signs, everywhere signs...'

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 10:51 AM (wjzs6)

150 149 Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 03:51 PM (rwI+c)

Will do....

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:51 AM (/4AZU)

151 "societal damage" is a bullshit phrase, and everyone knows it. It's just unquantifiable bullshit. We built highways cause people wanted to escape the urban hellholes.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:52 AM (zwdxl)

152 No matter how much tax money we throw at our "crumbling infrastructure", the repairs can never last longer than one election cycle.

Posted by: gastorgrab at November 28, 2014 10:52 AM (FX38i)

153 Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:45 PM (A1Dcl)



Sorry, I didn't see this before I posted at 142.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 10:52 AM (64d6n)

154 The very worst is being stuck behind a bus and unable to get out of the lane since the car behind you has you boxed in. Pretty sure that's a lower level of hell.

Posted by: Lauren at November 28, 2014 10:52 AM (ikOLM)

155 Tipping with a whole BOTTLE of MD 20/20? Dayumm, you lives in de upscale hood my brutha!! I be doing it fo de shots outa Dixie cups.....

Posted by: DiscerningHobo at November 28, 2014 10:52 AM (bzDvi)

156 and everyone knows a well polished banana feeds better I find myself moistened by your thoughts and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Posted by: Sundra Flake [/i] at November 28, 2014 10:52 AM (zxQ4h)

157 If only I had to "pass through" Boston, I wouldn't care but some places, such as Saltenstall building, need to be personally vsited from time to time but what about all the museums and parks we pay for that are only accessible by pubic transportation? that's bullshit!

Posted by: soothie at November 28, 2014 10:53 AM (PW0WF)

158 The region I live in is composed of 3 cities. They decided over the protest of city #3 to install fixed rail to cover cities 1 and 2 at over $500,000,000 cost. For a population of less than 400,000. I live in city #3 and have to pay for it, even though it comes nowhere near my home. They're putting fixed rail right down the main street, and traffic is bad now. Everything is already covered by buses, including express buses that go between the cities and have minimal stops at only main points of interest (malls, hospitals, universities) The politicians just want a rolling monument to their progressiveness. (Even most people in the 2 cities it will serve hate it)

Posted by: Greg61 at November 28, 2014 10:53 AM (H0lcY)

159 Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 03:44 PM (vVSOO)

Eh.

Tesla and Edison were both hacks.

Posted by: Charles Proteus Steinmetz at November 28, 2014 10:53 AM (Zu3d9)

160 Buses need dedicated pull outs at stops in urban areas. Stop the constipation in morning traffic.

Posted by: Jean at November 28, 2014 10:53 AM (apS1l)

161 157 Posted by: Sundra Flake at November 28, 2014 03:52 PM (zxQ4h)

Careful Sandy...last time you shot my banana it started feeding constantly until I got that shot of penicilin...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 10:53 AM (/4AZU)

162 so Ace is uncomfy with every post here after ~110 posts? ...and yet, he loves spontaneous hugs. Go figure?

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 10:54 AM (wjzs6)

163 other people that don't even life in your city can pass through as fast as possible is terrible and has had significant lasting impacts on many urban areas in the US. -- bullshit. Highways allowed better and faster trade. And allowed people to live in the suburbs where they preferred to live. Revealed preference for the win! You might not like, but who cares what you think?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 10:54 AM (zwdxl)

164 And Portland's light rail goes down any time there's any snow or ice. So the one time that it might be handy, it doesn't work. They have Pedicabs in Portland of course. It's great to be able to bicycle everywhere when you are young, but it hard to do when you get older. it's the one town where you'll see those heavy bikes with the bins for hauling groceries or kids. They think nothing of paying several thousand dollars for a bicycle.

Posted by: notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 10:54 AM (5HBd1)

165 If only someone could invent an "intelligent" streetcar that could leave its tracks if necessary because of an accident ahead, or changed traffic patterns. Oh, wait. Someone has. It is called a bus!

Posted by: USA at November 28, 2014 10:55 AM (m8hf7)

166 >They're very dangerous and are responsible for tremendous vehicular and bodily damage every year Now hold on a minute, the added insurance costs, insurance payouts, and repair bills actually get money flowing and stimulate the economy. Therefore, damaging property is a good thing!

Posted by: Your Friendly Neighbourhood Broken-Window Economist at November 28, 2014 10:55 AM (JVEmw)

167 Rail is to buses as hardware is to software.

Discuss.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:55 AM (oKE6c)

168 Libs love transport that runs on rails because it can go only where it is planned to go.

Posted by: gp at November 28, 2014 10:55 AM (mk9aG)

169 "62 We went to Europe on holiday this summer Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 03:28 PM (3mnNh) Eurotrash. Go back to where you belong." I really did feel out of place there this time, Europe is not a happy place. More people than ever spoke English to us but not in a congenial way.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 10:55 AM (3mnNh)

170

He's insufferably clueless on so many key topics, and manages to stipulate dozens of false MSM memes daily by not correcting his incredibly stupid callers, but Medved has somehow stumbled on a few truths, including that "light rail" projects are almost definitionally financial losers, big-time. 

 

Can't stand listening to him for some time now, so not sure if he's done his rant on this topic lately, but that rant is literate and on-point. 

 

That, and the pernicious effects of welfare and food stamps, are the important things where he thinks clearly and speaks forcefully.  Bizarrely, he also manages to validate some aspects of the "the Left's" fever-dream about the non-existent "theocratic conservativism" of "the Right".  Very preachy and presumptious on moral/religious matters (I'm perfectly good with his substantive positions in that arena, but in his zeal he does manage to trample good concepts of liberty etc in his tone and substance)

 

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 10:55 AM (afQnV)

171 Seattle is going to build a system from 2005? That's ancient in technology. I like its nickname by critics S.L.U.T. South Lake Union Streetcar It sounds like something from 1950s.

Posted by: Carol at November 28, 2014 10:56 AM (sj3Ax)

172 152--they built highways because they were getting kickbacks from the road construction companies--and the guys who sold the  cement (euphemism alert. Capische?) Same reason they built "projects"--high rises for the 'po people. Money. You have to spend money to steal  money....

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 10:56 AM (LXPcw)

173 Yeah. I lost my train of thought momentarily.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 03:51 PM (NeFrd)

You're loco!

[thin...very thin]


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 10:56 AM (Zu3d9)

174 Former Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice has won the appeal of his indefinite suspension against the NFL and is eligible to return immediately, according to people familiar with the matter.

Rice, who was indefinitely suspended in September after new evidence emerged in his domestic-violence case, can sign with a team immediately, though it isn't clear if a team will do so with just a month left in the season. Rice was cut by the Ravens in September. The appeal was heard by Barbara Jones, a former U.S. District Court judge.

Posted by: Rameses at November 28, 2014 10:56 AM (e8kgV)

175 I don't need to look up Robert Moses. I had Ed Logue and other shitheads here in Boston take the family home/neighborhood of almost century be imminent domain for a highway/housing project. That demolition and social engineering turned a middle class neighborhood into skid row. Later on similar assholes tried to do that to the neighborhood we moved to with the Inner Belt Expressway, which thankfully which stopped. Of course the state managed to obliterate the most economically productive portion of a black neighborhood, along with most of the traditional housing stock for housing projects. So that did wonders creating a gang infested wasteland in that part of the city.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 10:56 AM (A1Dcl)

176 165 And Portland's light rail goes down any time there's any snow or ice. So the one time that it might be handy, it doesn't work.
They have Pedicabs in Portland of course. It's great to be able to bicycle everywhere when you are young, but it hard to do when you get older. it's the one town where you'll see those heavy bikes with the bins for hauling groceries or kids. They think nothing of paying several thousand dollars for a bicycle.
Posted by: notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 03:54 PM (5HBd1)



I've become a fan of "Portlandia," which appears to be a soggier and mildewed version of Berkeley.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 10:56 AM (oKE6c)

177 143 ICYMI the Feds are now trying AGAIN to declare EVERY mud puddle in America their province.... so the whole "injurious out of control shitheads" thing has gone nuclear. Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 28, 2014 03:50 PM (/4AZU) I get water in my crawlspace. Is that a "navigable waterway" too?

Posted by: rickl at November 28, 2014 10:57 AM (zoehZ)

178 "Also worth mentioning that all the street railways in the country were successful PROFITABLE PRIVATE COMPANIES until the Feds decided in their infinite wisdom that those companies couldn't generate their own electricity. When then lead to government takeovers, a conspiracy by big government backed GM to kill transit, and subsidies."

My understanding is that the early light rails were owned by the municipalities then a wave of "privatization" swept the country and the bulk were bought up by holding companies (themselves owned by tire/petro/car companies) who (literally in many cases) ripped up rails and replaced the trolleys with buses overnight.

SIDEBAR - The rails were sold as scrap to Japan who got pissed when we stopped selling it to them...

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 28, 2014 10:57 AM (NaeCR)

179 We built highways cause people wanted to escape the urban hellholes.

We built suburbs for that purpose.  We built highways so we could empty the urban hellholes quickly if the Russkis got frisky.  It just so happened that the highways made suburban living even more attractive. 

Well, it made them more attractive for the soul-dead drones who like them.  Really cool people like urban crime and squalor. 

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 10:57 AM (4nR9/)

180 Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 03:55 PM (3mnNh)

Europe is no longer the center of the West.

Of course, I'm not sure if there is a center any more.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 10:57 AM (Zu3d9)

181 Indeed. Because when Other People are given the freedom to choose, they choose wrong.

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 10:58 AM (PW0WF)

182 If they could come up with a trolley that runs off of tofu farts, that might be a thing.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 28, 2014 10:59 AM (oFCZn)

183 In Austin, the mayor and city council wanted to stick us with a lite train that would cost $1B for 9 whole miles of track.

Posted by: Ook? at November 28, 2014 10:59 AM (E/isQ)

184 Funny how the Statists accuse conservatives and libertarians of living in the past. Then you take a look at their pet projects and you realize that, once again, they accuse us of the very thing they do. Trolleys, non-petroleum-based energy...

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at November 28, 2014 10:59 AM (rJUlF)

185 Portland's light rail goes down any time there's any snow or ice.

Posted by: notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 03:54 PM (5HBd1)


So do I!

And when there isn't.....

Posted by: Sondra Fluke at November 28, 2014 10:59 AM (Zu3d9)

186 ... housing project... turned a middle class neighborhood into skid row.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:56 PM (A1Dcl)



Ah, the "Cabrini Green" effect.


I love the logic. "Let's give the scum of the earth housing in among decent people, and maybe they'll learn to become decent people themselves." Or, alternatively, the scum will prey on the decent people until they leave, whichever comes first.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:00 AM (oKE6c)

187 Highways are like scars, tearing apart the flesh of an urban landscape, doing untold damage and horrible, unspeakable things.

Posted by: Vague Bullshit Guy at November 28, 2014 11:00 AM (zwdxl)

188 102 Call me a RINO, but I appreciated Salt Lake City's trolley system. Posted by: Knemon at November 28, 2014 03:41 PM (orIXZ) Trains are preferred by tourists because you don't have to figure out a ridiculously complicated bus schedule.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 28, 2014 11:00 AM (b4b5c)

189 185 Funny how the Statists accuse conservatives and libertarians of living in the past. Then you take a look at their pet projects and you realize that, once again, they accuse us of the very thing they do. Trolleys, non-petroleum-based energy...
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at November 28, 2014 03:59 PM (rJUlF)



Be glad that they haven't yet thought of Conestoga wagons.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:01 AM (oKE6c)

190 Funny how the Statists accuse conservatives and libertarians of living in the past. Then you take a look at their pet projects and you realize that, once again, they accuse us of the very thing they do. Trolleys, non-petroleum-based energy... And connecting two cities with light rail that already have airports. That's Real Progress right there.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 11:01 AM (0HooB)

191 "Societal Damage" is an irritating phrase, but it's hard to argue with the destruction wrought on the Bronx by that cocksucking scumbag Robert Moses. 

He did a job on the rest of NYC also, just not quite as bad.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 11:02 AM (Zu3d9)

192 "We built highways cause people wanted to escape the urban hellholes." More like the rich people wanted to live in the burbs but work in the important city. They had the political power (YAY BIG GOVERNMENT & BIG LABOR!) to say "fuck the poor and their property rights", bulldozed the poor neighborhoods and businesses for highways, shoved the displaced poor people into housing projects, and created welfare policies to keep those poor people economically and politically immobile, all the while claiming to care about the poor Or at least that's my personal experience.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 11:02 AM (A1Dcl)

193 Europe is no longer the center of the West.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 03:57 PM (Zu3d9)



Europe is the world's largest theme park.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:03 AM (oKE6c)

194 Posted by: Knemon RINO?? You're a Democat, bro.

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 11:03 AM (PW0WF)

195 Urban-housing projects ruined every city they were built in. They caused good, decent people to move to the suburbs, and left the ones who remained behind at the mercy of the  criminals who lived in those projects....

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 11:03 AM (LXPcw)

196 "184 In Austin, the mayor and city council wanted to stick us with a lite train that would cost $1B for 9 whole miles of track. " I still can not believe our fellow citizens voted that down. When you're too crazy for Austin, you need to be in a padded room.

Posted by: Lauren at November 28, 2014 11:04 AM (ikOLM)

197 Silly rabbits, get suspended monorails like in Der Krieger und die Kaeserin (the Princess and the Warrior, (set in Wupperthal....)) Ultra classy ...

Posted by: southcentralpa at November 28, 2014 11:04 AM (7YZbv)

198 The modern terrorism we call "highways" has always concentrated it's raping and pillaging on Communities of Color. Highways, always built for the express purpose of enabling White Flight, are nothing more than the Jim Crow of Concrete.

Posted by: Vague Bullshit Guy at November 28, 2014 11:04 AM (zwdxl)

199 "164 other people that don't even life in your city can pass through as fast as possible is terrible and has had significant lasting impacts on many urban areas in the US." I take it you are not in favor of freedom of movement.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 11:04 AM (3mnNh)

200 Be glad that they haven't yet thought of Conestoga wagons. Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 28, 2014 04:01 PM (oKE6c) I got their little house on the prairie right here.

Posted by: Andrew Dice Clay at November 28, 2014 11:04 AM (rJUlF)

201 193 "We built highways cause people wanted to escape the urban hellholes." More like the rich people wanted to live in the burbs but work in the important city. They had the political power (YAY BIG GOVERNMENT & BIG LABOR!) to say "fuck the poor and their property rights", bulldozed the poor neighborhoods and businesses for highways, shoved the displaced poor people into housing projects, and created welfare policies to keep those poor people economically and politically immobile, all the while claiming to care about the poor Or at least that's my personal experience. Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 04:02 PM (A1Dcl) Perhaps, but those same actions created new things and new opportunities for people, including poor people.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 11:05 AM (MQEz6)

202 Cities and towns across the nation had something similar; electric Buses or trolleys.

But GM purposefully put them out of business so they could sell Diesel buses to the cities. which cost more to buy and run and ruined a working inner city transport system that worked well.

And they operate just like buses do now so they don't impede traffic or invite more accidents than already occur.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 28, 2014 11:06 AM (KK+mC)

203 Conestoga wagons.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 28, 2014 04:01 PM (oKE6c)

That's animal cruelty! Free the carriage horses!

Posted by: Mayor De Blasio at November 28, 2014 11:06 AM (Zu3d9)

204 What about us brain-dead slobs,
You'll be given cushy jobs...

Posted by: SEIU at your DNC service[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 11:06 AM (DL2i+)

205 202 Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 04:05 PM (MQEz6)

Progressives mock us for missing 1955...of course they jerk off to 1935

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 11:06 AM (/4AZU)

206 I used to live in Cincinnati and that damned light rail issue had been coming up for 25 years or more it seemed. Nobody wants it, was voted down several times, but last I heard they're gonna build it anyway. Through a neighborhood called "Over-The-Rhine," one of the worst, most violent hoods in all of America. Stupid fucking liberals have only two ideas for job growth - light rail and Casinos. Neither are wealth creating. Shocker, huh?

Posted by: FredB at November 28, 2014 11:06 AM (8vJSA)

207 Mind you the original interstate plan for highways based on the autobahn model wasn't to plow the highways directly through the heart of cities but provide connections to the existing arteries around the periphery. A last minute change to the plan to allow for social engineering and union corruption gave us the disasters we have today. Highways and cities which don't really work well because the two were never supposed to be directly mixed int he first place.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 11:07 AM (A1Dcl)

208 137 #116, societal damage isn't a bullshit phrase. Having the government come in and wipe out or wall off your neighborhood so that other people that don't even life in your city can pass through as fast as possible is terrible and has had significant lasting impacts on many urban areas in the US. It was typically used as a "FUCK YOU" to poor and immigrant areas not in favor with the city government. Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 03:48 PM (A1Dcl) At least for the Eisenhower highway system that was more a bug than a feature - they were told to buy the least expensive real estate they could to build the highways on. Thus, it often went right through the "poor" areas of town.

Posted by: Buck Farky at November 28, 2014 11:07 AM (0wiDy)

209 Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 28, 2014 03:50 PM (/4AZU)

I think the move to claim EPA dominion over all "wet" spots in the US is because fracking uses water, and the EPA is keen to find any mechanism to shut down fracking.

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 11:07 AM (fL/7/)

210 Public transit is going broke because of UNIONS, Union Rules and Central planning of routes.

If there's a profit to be made then let some private enterprise build them and run them.

And they'll make money as long as the UNIONS are kept out.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 28, 2014 11:07 AM (KK+mC)

211 Urban-housing projects ruined every city they were built in. They caused good, decent people to move to the suburbs, and left the ones who remained behind at the mercy of the criminals who lived in those projects....

I think you've mixed up cause and effect.  People wanted to move to the suburbs because they wanted a house, not a rabbit warren, a yard of their own to potter around in, and mostly because they wanted to live around people they liked.  The ones left behind were disproportionately criminal and undesirable.  In theory, concentrating them in isolated high-rises away from the rest of the population should have made cities more, not less desirable.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (4nR9/)

212 Progressives mock us for missing 1955...of course they jerk off to 1935

They jerk-off to 1917 too....

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (LXPcw)

213 Jim Crow of Concrete Nice. Alliterative. Can you do the same with asphalt? I'd be doubly impressed.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (zxQ4h)

214 I like street cars and am of the belief (which is only a impression--I have not studied it closely) that they make sense in densely populated areas--and in many densely populated areas it is becoming necessary to limit cars--(London is a good example).  In those areas, streetcars can be a good solution.

That being said, only Shelbyville really has that kind of density.   Most Springfields don't.

Here in Arlington  (VA), we were going to build a streetcar for $100 million that went covered about 4 miles.   Then the price went up to $250 million, then to $350 million and then to $500 million.

That was too much for even the Democrats here and they voted into office the first non-Democrat in a regular election in about 30 years.

The message got through and the project has been cancelled.

At 100 million, the project made sense, but not at the higher prices.

(What we really need is an S-bahn train like in Berlin.  That gets you around FAST.   We also need Berliners as our citizens so that the system works correctly).

Posted by: Kasper Agonista at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (OVmhO)

215 There was no "new" evidence in the Ray Rice case. Video came to light that made the NFL look bad so they took it out on Ray Rice. My guess is that Ray will be an Oakland Raider in 2 weeks.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (32Ze2)

216 Stupid fucking liberals have only two ideas for job growth - light rail and Casinos. Neither are wealth creating. Shocker, huh?

Posted by: FredB at November 28, 2014 04:06 PM (8vJSA)



Maryland has had this problem over the past few years:  Need job growth and more tax revenue?  Build more casinos!

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (64d6n)

217 When Obama nominated crony Anthony Foxx for Sec. of Transportation, one of the only qualifications mentioned by Obama was that Foxx had overseen the development of a trolley line in Charlotte. Two problems; one, the trolley was developed by an independent organization, and two, it failed. Foxx, of course, was co-chair of the Dem National Convention which met in Charlotte. Foxx and his friend arranged for a $10 Million loan to pay for the convention, then defaulted on the loan. We don't seem to hear much about these things in the media.

Posted by: Michael Brown at November 28, 2014 11:08 AM (F2IAQ)

218 210 Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 04:07 PM (fL/7/)

In part of course they have also been misusing water table litigation to control and graft the wetlands my whole life....

essentially they want oversight of the planet.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 11:09 AM (/4AZU)

219

pep, not sure the actual purpose of many urban-area freeways was urban evacuation during the Cold War, but that of course was the end result (i.e., the capacity for it came about that way).

 

Now the insterstate freeway system was, I believe, a Pentagon project at its base, originally (which is why the system initially required certain stretches of straight/level multi-lane highway at intervals, as Swedish-style alternative airstrips for strategic bombers - think I have the basics of this right).

 

Funny thing.  In the late 1970s, one strategic concern among the evil right-wing hawks (Committee on the Present Danger types - who generally were correct on most things, BTW) was a strategic assymmetry in urban evacuation capability.  The Soviets could, it was feared, evacuate major cities coincident with a counter-force strike on our land-based missiles/bombers, placing them in a commanding position in the mutually-assured destruction dynamic. 

 

Appropriately enough for this time of year, it turned out that thanks to our massively greater economic development, incl. of course transportation, WE had the greatest "evacuation" potential on Earth, easily.  (Soviets had just rail, basically, and that was even limited compared to ours) The Wednesday before T-giving remains, I think the largest "people-mile" day on Earth, in the US.  (BTW, the Soviet program fell under "civil defense", or in Russian grazhdanskaya oborona, or in the typical Soviet sarcastic abbreviation, "grob" - "coffin")

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 11:09 AM (afQnV)

220 / Brown sock

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:09 AM (F2IAQ)

221 Silly rabbits, get suspended monorails like in Der Krieger und die Kaeserin (the Princess and the Warrior, (set in Wupperthal....)) Ultra classy ...
--------
Interesting that you bring that up. Back in the 70's, Denver was toying with the idea of running a monorail system down Colfax Ave. from downtown Denver to Fitzsimmons Army Medical Center. The plan was eventually voted down in a general election, but at the time I thought it would be a very effective idea.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 11:09 AM (vVSOO)

222 solar powered trolleys!! ...with slot machines!!

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 11:10 AM (PW0WF)

223 When a dem says "shovel ready," that's your cue to bend over and take it as a good little taxpayer.

Posted by: USA at November 28, 2014 11:10 AM (m8hf7)

224 Funny how the Statists accuse conservatives and libertarians of living in the past. Then you take a look at their pet projects and you realize that, once again, they accuse us of the very thing they do. Trolleys, non-petroleum-based energy...

And then they turn around and won't let you hunt whales for the oil!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 11:11 AM (fL/7/)

225 I still can not believe our fellow citizens voted that down. When you're too crazy for Austin, you need to be in a padded room. Posted by: Lauren at November 28, 2014 04:04 PM (ikOLM) Amen. Only approved $500M of the last billion they wanted and now this. You know, only a little more than 10k people vote in off year elections. If we could get a few more thousand cons voting, we could take control of this burg.

Posted by: Ook? at November 28, 2014 11:11 AM (E/isQ)

226 Posted by: Kasper Agonista at November 28, 2014 04:08 PM (OVmhO)




$1 million bus stop that doesn't even protect from the elements!!  Arlington needed a shakeup.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 11:11 AM (64d6n)

227 #211, the issue is regulation. FDR's cronies in the 1930s set their eyes on the public transit companies, and GM used their postwar influence as well, to regulate those companies out of existence. Look at UBER vs. taxis. Can you imagine an UBER like company running bus/rail service along the routes where people actually want and need frequent service? That would be a boon for cities and relieve massive amounts of traffic.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 11:12 AM (A1Dcl)

228 Highways, always built for the express purpose of enabling White Flight, are nothing more than the Jim Crow of Concrete. This is perfect. I laughed out loud.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 11:13 AM (rwI+c)

229 We don't seem to hear much about these things in the media.

Posted by: Michael Brown at November 28, 2014 04:08 PM (F2IAQ)


"Local" Charlotte news.

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 11:13 AM (fL/7/)

230 212--you are right about people wanting to live in the open spaces that the suburbs offered , but your wrong when you call the ones left behind  "criminal and undesirable."  The ones who stayed behind (originally) were of the same "stock" who left.  The "criminal and  undesirable" were brought in to fill the apartments and rentals that were left by the ones who moved to the 'burbs. Landlords needed the rental money-- and how else can I put it?---blacks were coming up from the south and Puerto Ricans were moving from the island--and they needed places to live, right?

Posted by: JoeF. at November 28, 2014 11:13 AM (LXPcw)

231 Twitter: BREAKING: There is an apparent shooter at the Annapolis Mall. Details to follow.

Posted by: USA at November 28, 2014 11:13 AM (m8hf7)

232 "Funicular Railways - The Time Is Now."

First, high-speed rail to nowhere; now this.  Is there any train our betters aren't in love with, so long as it's bought with our money?

What next - Gomez Addams' railway set?  The Polar Express?  Snowpiercer?

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 28, 2014 11:14 AM (iIzG7)

233 Highways, always built for the express purpose of enabling White Flight, are nothing more than the Jim Crow of Concrete. ---------------------------- Ah! "Expressways". It's all clear now.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:14 AM (F2IAQ)

234 #231, rent control didn't help that equation either.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 11:14 AM (A1Dcl)

235 "Europe is no longer the center of the West. Of course, I'm not sure if there is a center any more." I would say that the center ha crossed the Atlantic and moved to New York. Just take art for example, you have the Guggenheim for avant garde and the Met for the classics, almost across the road from each other. The Met now has depth that a lot of smaller European national collections do not.

Posted by: Decaf at November 28, 2014 11:14 AM (3mnNh)

236 I feel so virtuous watching the plebs using public transportation.

Posted by: Gentry Liberals at November 28, 2014 11:15 AM (53CCM)

237

F***ing casinos, and state lotteries.  At least non-native Native Americans can benefit from the former, but how perfect a f***king monument to irresponsibility and deception is a state lottery whose proceeds "go to education".  Barf.

 

Funny, 30 years ago K-12 education was generally much much better, and cost a fraction of today's burgeoning city- and state-busting budgets (adjusted for inflation, "real" dollars).   But today, so that many teachers and others can live upper-middle class professional lifestyles with pensions (generally unknown to the analagous income categories like lawyers/docs/engineers), state govts. demean themselves with the most regressive Idiot Tax ever devised.

 

And yeah, Michael Brown sock, dontcha just love the pure Third World cronyist corruption of the NC energy guy (using shareholder money??) to just pay for a major party's convention, with the ridiculously transparent "forgiven" (or is it just forgotten?) loan.

 

 

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 11:15 AM (afQnV)

238 #232, aw crap not another loon in a gun free zone

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 11:15 AM (A1Dcl)

239 What next - Gomez Addams' railway set? The Polar Express? Snowpiercer? Posted by: Keith ------- The Little Engine That Could

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:16 AM (F2IAQ)

240 Can you imagine an UBER like company running bus/rail service along the routes where people actually want and need frequent service? Yes, I can!1!1 Signed, The UBER dude with a .357 whose gonna take your wallet and credit cards then pour gasoline all over your body and leave your smoldering corpse along the side of the road.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:16 AM (zxQ4h)

241 You're loco! **** Perhaps, but my motives are pure.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 11:17 AM (NeFrd)

242 $1 million bus stop that doesn't even protect from the elements!! Arlington needed a shakeup.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 04:11 PM (64d6n)


There's no reason you peons shouldn't be standing out in the elements. It will toughen you up for the long slog ahead, and I can splash water on you as my driver deliberately drives through the mud puddles near the bus stop for sport.

Posted by: Limousine Liberal at November 28, 2014 11:18 AM (fL/7/)

243 so is the NFL gonna ammend their "No More" wife abuse tv ad to "No More...For Awhile"?

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 11:18 AM (PW0WF)

244 WJZ | CBS Baltimore @cbsbaltimore 40 seconds ago NO SHOOTING. @AACOPD fight between minors caused panic at Annapolis Mall. http://cbsloc.al/1w0PGtI

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:18 AM (zwdxl)

245 #241, you've never taken a cab in Boston have you? It's like riding with ISIS through Mogadishu, only more dangerous and less sanitary.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 11:18 AM (A1Dcl)

246 What's with all the fucking Roundabouts, nowadays?

You better get with the program pal.

Posted by: The JugHandle at November 28, 2014 11:19 AM (DL2i+)

247 Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 28, 2014 04:12 PM (A1Dcl)

Intriguing, but that assumes that there is some relationship between supply and demand, and as far as I can tell, there is not a single government entity in the United States that has any inkling of such a relationship.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 11:19 AM (Zu3d9)

248 Transportation Taxes: All The Peasants Will Bear

- Leland J. Stanford, Jr.

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 28, 2014 11:19 AM (iIzG7)

249 Last time I rode a train was in Europe. The ticket-taker was a double amputee. A semi-conductor.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 11:19 AM (NeFrd)

250 Perhaps, but my motives are pure. Admit it, you engineered the situation to your advantage.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at November 28, 2014 11:19 AM (m9V0o)

251 And yeah, Michael Brown sock, dontcha just love the pure Third World cronyist corruption of the NC energy guy (using shareholder money??) to just pay for a major party's convention, with the ridiculously transparent "forgiven" (or is it just forgotten?) loan. Posted by: rhomboid ---------------------- Brain. Exploding. If I were the state Attorney General (instead of Dem apparatchik Roy Cooper), there would have been a full-on fraud investigation.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:19 AM (F2IAQ)

252 Perhaps, but my motives are pure.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 04:17 PM (NeFrd)

I'm getting more and more steamed by this.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 28, 2014 11:20 AM (Zu3d9)

253 From twitter: NO SHOOTING At @WestfieldAnn Mall. Repeat, NO SHOOTING.

Posted by: USA at November 28, 2014 11:20 AM (m8hf7)

254 "A semi-conductor."

That's cruel and heartless, and insensitive.  I love it, and I am so stealing that line.  I'll give you credit when I repeat it.

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 28, 2014 11:21 AM (iIzG7)

255 All this to deny us the flying cars and jetpacks we were promised.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 11:21 AM (MMC8r)

256 231 212--you are right about people wanting to live in the open spaces that the suburbs offered , but your wrong when you call the ones left behind "criminal and undesirable." The ones who stayed behind (originally) were of the same "stock" who left

To be clear, I said that those left behind were disproportionately "criminal and undesirable."  That means that those who weren't, but stayed in the city, had to deal with an even higher burden of the socially dysfunctional.  Thus, I don't think we disagree about that.  Where we part company is in the notion that urban housing projects caused the decline of the cities.  if, as you say, the "criminal and undesirable" then "were brought in to fill the apartments and rentals that were left by the ones who moved to the 'burbs", the urban housing projects don't enter into it.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:21 AM (4nR9/)

257 * adds note to Muldoon file *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:21 AM (F2IAQ)

258 I'll be the roundabout The words will make you out and out And spend the day your way Call it morning driving through the sound and in and out the valley

Posted by: Fragile 1971 at November 28, 2014 11:21 AM (rwI+c)

259 This thread has gone off the rails. Time to spike it. Ace? Nood! Aziz? Light! Ace? Nood!

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 11:21 AM (PW0WF)

260 The music dance and sing They make the children really ring I spend the day your way Call it morning driving through the sound and in and out the valley

Posted by: Fragile 1971 at November 28, 2014 11:22 AM (rwI+c)

261 Of course, said gentry liberal shitbags will ride the streetcars a time or two for the novelty, realize that they don't want to be surrounded by the lower orders of society after all...and go right back to their cars. And anyway...it's so inconvenient to get to one's high-class drug orgies by public transport, eh? Other the other hand, stupid hipsters might fall under streetcar wheels at a satisfying rate, to the betterment of society. So there's that.

Posted by: Stu-22 at November 28, 2014 11:22 AM (vd4oB)

262 Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 04:19 PM (NeFrd)

Be careful, you're liable to get your ticket punched if you keep it up!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 11:22 AM (fL/7/)

263 The first thing our interim mayor did after Obama summoned Castro to DC was to kill the stupid streetcar project that the entire city opposed. Also, one Hispanic neighborhood made the city remove the bike lanes that the city had forced on them. The bike lanes screwed up traffic. So those are two victories. Even the Dems here are starting to realize that the city council should listen to the voters for a change.

Posted by: Stace, watching the game on a tiny bedroom TV at November 28, 2014 11:22 AM (MSiSP)

264 In and around the lake Mountains come out of the sky, and they stand there One mile over, we'll be there, and we'll see you Ten true summers, we'll be there and laughing too Twenty four before my love, you'll see I'll be there with you

Posted by: Fragile 1971 at November 28, 2014 11:22 AM (rwI+c)

265 When I visit my friends in New Orleans, I always wait for the streetcar...and after about an hour I hop off and call a cab. It's cool if you have no where to go at any particular moment, but that's about it.

Posted by: Oschisms at November 28, 2014 11:23 AM (uqV2n)

266 It's always the whitey's doing the die-in protests. Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit 2m SUCCESS! #Ferguson Protesters & #Communists Shut Down Galleria on Black Friday -- Harass Shoppers http://shar.es/1X8qPE via @gatewaypundit

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:23 AM (zwdxl)

267 Roundabout?  I vote "Yes."

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 28, 2014 11:23 AM (iIzG7)

268 I will remember you Your silhouette will charge the view Of distant atmosphere Call it morning driving through the sound and even in the valley

Posted by: Fragile 1971 at November 28, 2014 11:24 AM (rwI+c)

269 Vaginal steam baths come from an ancient Korean tradition called chai-yok, which uses mugwort and wormwood to cleanse the vagina Every day I learn something new, here.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 11:24 AM (wjzs6)

270

Mike Hammer, was there actually actionable illegality involved in that loan?  Hope so.  It certainly passed the "stink test" with blazing glory.

 

Add that to the GM/Chrysler bondholder looting of 2009.  Anyone here follow that?  Thought I saw somewhere last year that some court had - finally - said "um, no, that doesn't look kosher" about that whole affair.

 

Which, I would submit for horde consideration, was one of the most damaging, shocking, and important specific acts of illegality in the US, ever. 

 

Two of the pillars of the modern economic world, i.e. prosperity above the poverty that has always been the human norm:  secured debt, and insurance (real insurance).  The latter only surviving in decent form in isolated corners, like some hunted endangered species, the rest regulated into oblivion (O-care the crowning glory of this trashing of a key economic engine).  The former never really before assaulted in the world's leading countries, until now.

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 11:24 AM (afQnV)

271 In and around the lake Mountains come out of the sky, and they stand there One mile over, we'll be there, and we'll see you Ten true summers, we'll be there and laughing too Twenty four before my love, you'll see I'll be there with you

Posted by: Fragile 1971 at November 28, 2014 11:24 AM (rwI+c)

272 NFL: No More Abuse of Women* * unless no video evidence, then we can hide behind lack of proof** ** unless player appeals, then we can hide behind the appeal BUT WEAR LOTS OF PINK!!! 'Cause we're down with the breasts!!

Posted by: USA at November 28, 2014 11:24 AM (m8hf7)

273 They're trying to do it in Atlanta, just started testing it in the last couple months and they've already had two car accidents.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at November 28, 2014 11:24 AM (81puj)

274 So the white commies trying to start race war to overthrow capitalism managed to get a mall shut-down by holding a "die-in" in front of the stores and harassing people trying to buy Christmas gifts.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:25 AM (zwdxl)

275 who remembers the song Montego Bay?

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 11:25 AM (PW0WF)

276 267 It's always the whitey's doing the die-in protests

Dude.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:25 AM (4nR9/)

277 When I visit my friends in New Orleans, I always wait for the streetcar...and after about an hour I hop off and call a cab. It's cool if you have no where to go at any particular moment, but that's about it. Posted by: Oschisms ---------- Circumstances recently caused me to take a bus from point A to point B. The trip takes 10-15 minutes by car. The bus? One full hour.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:25 AM (F2IAQ)

278 Wir fahr'n, fahr'n, fahr'n auf der Autobahn

Posted by: Kraftwerk 1974 at November 28, 2014 11:26 AM (W5DcG)

279 I seem to recall all the city beautifiers (like my parent) lamenting the ugly overhead cables the streetcars used.   I thought they were cool myself.

Posted by: Jeanne of the North at November 28, 2014 11:26 AM (3Kea8)

280 Along the drifting cloud, the eagle searching down on the land Catching the swirling wind, the sailor sees the rim of the land The eagle's dancing wings create, as weather spins out of hand Go closer, hold the land, feel partly no more than grains of sand We stand to lose all time a thousand answers by in our hand Next to your deeper fears, we stand surrounded by million years I'll be the roundabout The words will make you out and out I'll be the roundabout The words will make you out and out

Posted by: Fragile 1971 at November 28, 2014 11:26 AM (rwI+c)

281 Circumstances recently caused me to take a bus from point A to point B. The trip takes 10-15 minutes by car. The bus? One full hour. Posted by: Mike Hammer ------------------ Oh, yeah, the $1.50 fare was more than it would cost to operate my car over that distance.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:26 AM (F2IAQ)

282 The road is a gray ribbon, white stripes and green edges ..

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 11:27 AM (rwI+c)

283 It's always the whitey's doing the die-in protests Dude. -- Dude what? Whenever I see one of these "die-in" protests, it's overwhelming white marxist types.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:27 AM (zwdxl)

284 I can't help but think gentry liberals do not like buses because The Poors ride buses, and so they're determined to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a dangerous, slow, expensive and very outdated transportation system that they don't associate with The Poors.
---

Rail lines restrict movement and therefore the ability of The Poors to get to The Gentry Liberals' neighborhoods.

When I lived in Chicago (South Side) I got called for jury duty at some court on the North Side. I quickly discovered how hard it was to get from the South to the North. The El was pretty damned dangerous down near my neighborhood, so to get north I had to take the train (or a bus) to the Loop, then transfer to another train line. (Once the judge heard what I was going through to serve on the jury, he wound up sending a van down to pick me up.)

So that's why they like "cable cars" and "light rail." Because they restrict movement of the Wrong People to the Right Areas.

Posted by: Y-not at November 28, 2014 11:27 AM (9BRsg)

285 I seem to recall all the city beautifiers (like my parent) lamenting the ugly overhead cables the streetcars used. I thought they were cool myself. Posted by: Jeanne ----------------- We can install solar panels on the tops of the trolleys, that would be FREE energy .., and no cables. / idiots

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:28 AM (F2IAQ)

286 I've had a few friend consider taking Amtrak from MA to NC for a visit. Compared to a flight, it's insane. Costs just as much, requires 18 hours of travel, includes a couple bus rides. Totally useless.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 28, 2014 11:28 AM (2cS/G)

287 Circumstances recently caused me to take a bus from point A to point B. The trip takes 10-15 minutes by car. The bus? One full hour. Posted by: Mike Hammer

One long ago winter, my car was in the shop, so I had to ride the bus for a couple of weeks.  My car at the time was a badly used AMC Gremlin.  I was never so happy as when I got that car back.  There was one good thing, though.  There was a stunning Korean girl who also rode the bus.  I mooned over her for many moons.  No such girls ever appeared in my Gremlin.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:28 AM (4nR9/)

288 I really think the Municipal Bus is supposed to motivate you to get your shit together so you can buy a fucking car.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 11:29 AM (wjzs6)

289 In Darien, CT, we don't allow bus stop signs.

Posted by: Darien CT at November 28, 2014 11:29 AM (53CCM)

290 who remembers the song Montego Bay?
*sheepishly raises hand* Ummmm, Me?

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 11:29 AM (vVSOO)

291 UBER is like the early days of the internet -- all unicorns and rainbows. Now every 'net transaction puts you one step closer to getting your bank account cleaned out. One gruesome killing and the price of a cab medallion will rise to the point that will put it out of the reach of all but the foulest smelling third-worlder.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:29 AM (zxQ4h)

292 Randal O'Toole of the Cato Institute has some great anti- light rail rants. This is one: http://preview.tinyurl.com/mg58ruq (And I used to know him, a long time ago, in the Portland Bike Co-op. I was surprised the first time I read the anti light rail stuff. )

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 11:29 AM (Lqy/e)

293 who remembers the song Montego Bay?
*sheepishly raises hand* Ummmm, Me?

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 04:29 PM (vVSOO)




Thank you for putting it in my head.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 11:30 AM (64d6n)

294 Die-in, my ass. It's just bad street theater unless you DIE. Lying commies.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 11:30 AM (MMC8r)

295 The road is a gray ribbon, white stripes and green edges .. ------------ I know! I've walked it all. All together now: "This land is your land, this land is my land.."

Posted by: Woody Guthrie at November 28, 2014 11:31 AM (F2IAQ)

296 Dude what? Whenever I see one of these "die-in" protests, it's overwhelming white marxist types. Posted by: Costanza Defense

Just funnin' ya.  Read the preceding thread's comments.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:31 AM (4nR9/)

297 The new streetcars in Atlanta have been involved in two crashes in spite of not even being in service yet, both with automobiles while on test runs.

Posted by: obsidian at November 28, 2014 11:31 AM (eSe8A)

298 There was a stunning Korean girl who also rode the bus. I mooned over her for many moons. No such girls ever appeared in my Gremlin. That's because you fed it after midnight. If it was still a Mogwai, the Korean chicks would be all up in your shit.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 11:31 AM (wjzs6)

299 well, gauging by the reactions, my humor has only a narrow appeal.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 11:31 AM (NeFrd)

300 Just funnin' ya. Read the preceding thread's comments. -- ah, cool.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:32 AM (zwdxl)

301 (And I used to know him, a long time ago, in the Portland Bike Co-op. I was surprised the first time I read the anti light rail stuff. ) Posted by: Notsothoreau ---------------- Ha! The 'Yellow Bike' project? Didn't work out, I don't think....

Posted by: Woody Guthrie at November 28, 2014 11:32 AM (F2IAQ)

302 All together now:
"This land is your land, this land is my land.."

Posted by: Woody Guthrie at November 28, 2014 04:31 PM (F2IAQ)



Hey, I "sang" this too!



http://tinyurl.com/pnjfrru

Posted by: Bernie Sanders at November 28, 2014 11:33 AM (64d6n)

303 I highly recommend the Montego Bay song video. He sings while, get this, rowing in a canoe!! http://youtube.com/watch?v=gXjVd0TeOX0

Posted by: soothie is a giver at November 28, 2014 11:33 AM (PW0WF)

304 well, gauging by the reactions, my humor has only a narrow appeal. Posted by: Seamus --------- Depends on how you gauge it.

Posted by: Woody Guthrie at November 28, 2014 11:33 AM (F2IAQ)

305 Portlandia is in fact a documentary. (I keed). When we drive through the town, we frequently remark on people that look like cast members. And the feminist bookstore is a real bookstore they use for filming the show.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 11:36 AM (Lqy/e)

306 Nobody appreciates your attempt to derail this thread with puns.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 11:36 AM (wjzs6)

307 Nobody appreciates your attempt to derail this thread with puns. ------------------ Slow motion train wreck.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:37 AM (F2IAQ)

308 Rice, who was indefinitely suspended in September after new evidence emerged in his domestic-violence case, can sign with a team immediately, though it isn't clear if a team will do so with just a month left in the season. Rice was cut by the Ravens in September. The appeal was heard by Barbara Jones, a former U.S. District Court judge. So the shame of having a woman beater or the frustration of watching Trent Richardson the rest of the season? Decisions, decisions.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at November 28, 2014 11:38 AM (puS7T)

309 Nobody appreciates your attempt to derail this thread with puns. He should be trained to stay on track.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 11:39 AM (MMC8r)

310 Doesn't some developer want to build a gondola from NJ to the financial district in NYC?

Posted by: alexthechick at November 28, 2014 11:39 AM (tjQsL)

311

pep, you owned a Gremlin?  and have admitted to such on a public forum?

 

wow ...... I salute your courage and independent spirit

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 11:39 AM (afQnV)

312 In theory, concentrating them in isolated high-rises away from the rest of the population should have made cities more, not less desirable.

In theory,
Meanwhile in practice the concentration produces killer n-th generation gang-bangers which are then dispersed all over the city e.g. Cabrini-Green -> Chicagos current Windy Murder city.  See also the Chixaguans sp?, Honduran Polio, etc.  Immigration center mixing bowl being injected directly into your children's kindergarden.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 11:40 AM (DL2i+)

313 How about private dirigibles? Use that third dimension.

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2014 11:41 AM (MQEz6)

314 pep, you owned a Gremlin? and have admitted to such on a public forum? wow ...... I salute your courage and independent spirit No one is stronger than the Pacer owner.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 11:41 AM (rwI+c)

315 How about private dirigibles? Use that third dimension. Fan Man commuting FTW!

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 11:42 AM (rwI+c)

316 We had a bullshit monorail installed in our city that actually takes up a lane of traffic.  So how is that supposed to ease congestion?

They did a study and they found they could have bought every single rider a brand new Prius for less money.

But monorails are the future, or something.

Posted by: Altec at November 28, 2014 11:42 AM (13G+x)

317
What kind of person has pie in the middle of the afternoon?

*points thumbs towards self*

This Guy!



oh, and streetcars suck.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 28, 2014 11:42 AM (NtzGn)

318 I hate, hate, driving on Huntingon Avenue in Boston brcause of those ancient trolleys.

Posted by: Carol at November 28, 2014 11:42 AM (sj3Ax)

319 Turing was an impressive dude. But now that he's the Big Gay Hero, the media is lying and turning him into the man who single-handedly invented everything about computers. Which is total bullshit. The also avoid talking about his affairs with young male students and how old they were -- British universities in that era often let precocious young geniuses in at very young ages. Charles Crawford @CharlesCrawford READ! Merciless analysis of the scientifically ignorant gushing rubbish being talked about #Turing http://thonyc.wordpress.com/2014/11/28/mega-inanity/

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:42 AM (zwdxl)

320 Turing was an impressive dude. But now that he's the Big Gay Hero, the media is lying and turning him into the man who single-handedly invented everything about computers. Which is total bullshit. I started watching a movie on Netflix about him starring Derek Jacobi. After 25 minutes of GAY!! and 2 minutes of GENIUS!! I shut it off. There's only one reason we care who he was, and it wasn't what he did with his dick.

Posted by: --- at November 28, 2014 11:45 AM (MMC8r)

321 Honduran Polio, etc. Immigration center mixing bowl being injected directly into your children's kindergarden. *** It's not such a big step from 'mono'-rail to 'polio'-rail.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 11:45 AM (NeFrd)

322 Original wizard of oz is on! TBS

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 11:45 AM (zOTsN)

323 The M1 rail system in Detroit is financed and managed by a cooperative of private businesses, philanthropy, and government. When you are starting from nothing(a city that was almost vacant in many parts), having a hop on the car, then ride up to another location will make some sense. Particularly for the 50,000 people who are in that part of Detroit during the day for work, etc. But it is still, IMO, a real novelty that has the ghost of the People Mover(a true boondoggle for Detroit, simply was a Democrat slush fund project to skim off of ) snapping at it's heels. Like the Mover, it will not have the ridership they are projecting and will need to be subsidized forever. The People Mover ended up being something that you rode from parking to one of the sports venues. It was also something you didn't ride alone. None of these unmanned transportation systems are safe to ride when they are not crowded, IMO. They all become a haven for the Michael Browns of the world, bored and riding around once they pay a single entrance ticket fee. And then become a great place to be trapped between stops by gang bangers. In the "old days" the hipsters long for, a trolley car had a conductor on it. Much less likely to turn into a victim coop like these modern unmanned cars.

Posted by: Jen the original at November 28, 2014 11:46 AM (hjTr7)

324 Circumstances recently caused me to take a bus from point A to point B. The trip takes 10-15 minutes by car. The bus? One full hour.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 04:25 PM (F2IAQ)


The best part about public transportation is that if you count on it, you are totally under the thumb of the government schedulers and the route planning staff .  And if need be, they can shut it down indefinitely.


It is also good indoctrination for getting on the trains to the camps.  You can bet those trains will run on time!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 11:46 AM (fL/7/)

325 267 It's always the whitey's doing the die-in protests. Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit 2m SUCCESS! #Ferguson Protesters & #Communists Shut Down Galleria on Black Friday -- Harass Shoppers http://shar.es/1X8qPE via @gatewaypundit Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 04:23 PM (zwdxl) I saw an article linked at Drudge where they are protesting against "materialism". I thought Ferguson was supposed to be about police brutality. So yeah, commies.

Posted by: rickl at November 28, 2014 11:46 AM (zoehZ)

326 Flying monkeys the original drones

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 11:47 AM (zOTsN)

327 Contrarian Opinion incoming! While there are some good points in the Federalist article, it actually if way off-base in several areas, and missed the key points in others. Here are a few of my critiques of the piece that Ace linked to: LOCAL CONTROL If the local citizenry of a municipality willingly votes to fund public transit (which otherwise is not self-sustaining), then what business is it of ours to criticize them? As libertarian-minded people here, shouldn't be be in FAVOR of local control, locally-determined taxation levels, and local eccentricities? It doesn't matter whether we outsiders like or agree with whatever it is a decentralized political entity decides to do -- what matters is the the locals themselves made that decision. Heck, I don't care if Portland or Seattle votes to spend $5 billion on a gigantic golden statue of Twinkleberry, the Goddess of Unicorn Farts; if that's how they want to spend/waste their capital, then that's how they want to spend/waste their capital, period. As long as the enterprise isn't forced on them by a centralized federal government, then they are free to tax themselves silly for whatever foolish reason they deem fit. And another city can do something wiser if they deem fit; and you can choose which city to live in. Freedom! PREDICTABILITY Yes, there is much that is wasteful and inefficient to light rail lines versus bus lines -- the whole concept of light rial superiority was already debunked in a classic tome of transportation theory called "Transport of Delight," which shredded the LA's Green Line and Red Line system, and pointed out that if the same money had been invested in bus transit, everyone would have been much much better off. HOWEVER, even so, in certain neighborhoods and cities light rail does have an advantage that neither Transport of Delight nor the Federalist article nor most transit studies acknowledge: Humans crave reliability. What is often cited as a downside to light rail -- that you cant simply move the tracks as needed -- is actually a huge upside. As bus riders (such as myself) frequently discover to their horror, bureaucrats and politicians and prone to switch, alter and cancel bus lines frequently, either to please pressure groups, or to cope with budget shortfalls, or whatever. And in an environment of constant uncertainty, it's difficult to made long-range plans, based on the availability of nearby transit. I myself more than once have been caught in the"cancelled bus line" housing trap -- i.e. "I'll move to this new home because it has a convenient bus line going to my desired destination" - -so you invest your life's savings into a new home, and BOOM two years later the line is cancelled. Same thing happens with jobs. Those of you who don't rely on public transit dont know how devastating this can be. But a light rail line? It's pretty much permanent and not as subject to the whims of politicians. You can't change the route, so they only way they can screw you is to shut down the whole light rail system -- which is unlikely, seeing as they eagerly built it in the first place. I have more to say, but I'll leave it at that. Too often folks on the right have automatic responses to certain topics based on presumed cultural identities, but it's not so cut-and-dried. Each and every issue should be thought through carefully.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 11:47 AM (K4YiS)

328 315 pep, you owned a Gremlin? and have admitted to such on a public forum?

wow ...... I salute your courage and independent spirit


No one is stronger than the Pacer owner. Posted by: toby928(C)


What can I say, but grad school.  And my Dad owned 4 Pacers, which he loaned out to us on an as-needed basis.  Truly one of the most comical assemblages of automotive crapitude ever.  Luckily, my now wife looked beyond the cars.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:47 AM (4nR9/)

329 The highway blockages and mall shut-downs are the same tactic -- they think they are Bringing the Revolution to the suburban whites.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:48 AM (zwdxl)

330 READ! Merciless analysis of the scientifically ignorant gushing rubbish being talked about #Turing http://thonyc.wordpress.com/2014/11/28/mega-inanity/ Posted by: Costanza ------------- Excellent link! Thnx.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 11:48 AM (F2IAQ)

331

Back in the late 80s visited a friend working at the embassy in Lisbon.  His neighborhood was ridiculously quaint - but OK, because all real.  Simply the way it had been, and Portugal was not yet seeing effects of Euro-integration.  The street cars were amazing.  So slow in some areas, you could (and this was what people did) just sort of jog up and hop on easily, then pay (forget how that worked). 

 

Then there was the extensive network of trolleys in Leningrad in the late 70s.  Limited charm - though now that I think of it, I should have checked them for manufacturer's plates/tags, things were probably looted from Central Europe in 1946 or something.  Used to ride the line to the end, wherever that was in each case, just to look around.  Naturally got increasing stares as I approached the end of the line - what's a foreigner doing out here? 

 

Summer time, and occasionally the local prevailing hygience habits/constraints resulted in odiferous public transit experiences.  But the kids who did winter semesters there said it was far worse then, so we were lucky I guess.

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 11:48 AM (afQnV)

332 For the cost of light rail, you could have bus service every five minutes.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at November 28, 2014 11:49 AM (V70Uh)

333 Portland Bike Co-op was about teaching people how to work on their bikes. There's still a group called a The Bike Farm that does this. You have good bike mechanics helping people do work on their own. The one thing that Portland did right, was to try and restructure the neighborhoods. The idea was to have the stores you need for routine shopping within a 20 minute bike ride. So, in the trendy parts of town, you'll see small grocery stores, restaurants, etc. these neighborhoods have a great feel to them. Unfortunately, the ones with the Payday loan places have a different feel.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 11:49 AM (Lqy/e)

334 I talked to an urban planner - to my surprise he didn't like trains or streetcars in cities. Sure there's less rolling resistance, but he said bus routes are flexible and can be altered not so much rail lines. You're committed. No flexibility

Posted by: Erik L at November 28, 2014 11:50 AM (URRDD)

335 That's pretty funny considering that back in the day when most towns had streetcars, Standard Oil bought out those companies and replaced them with buses!!!

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at November 28, 2014 11:50 AM (JcN7j)

336 Too often folks on the right have automatic responses to certain topics based on presumed cultural identities I find your ideas intriguing but wish to unsubscribe to your newsletter.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:50 AM (zxQ4h)

337 If the local citizenry of a municipality willingly votes to fund public transit (which otherwise is not self-sustaining), then what business is it of ours to criticize them?

None, unless of course its done with other peoples money.  Many times these things want funds from the Feds and many times it gets thrown into a big federal budget as a way of buying votes.  It is then our business.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 28, 2014 11:51 AM (NtzGn)

338 Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 04:45 PM (NeFrd)

I'm having a lot of trouble keeping track of your message!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 11:51 AM (fL/7/)

339 I lived in a town ... this is a true story ... where a beloved old man died and left his ginormous house in the middle of town to a Foundation he had set up.  Nobody knew what to do with the house.  Finally, the Foundation got a developer interested who came up with plan to save the house as a sort of community center but to make the deal pay he would build condos on most of the site.  This plan, however, would have required killing a gorgeous 200 year old tree. 

Sad choice, but an easy one, right? Tree or house, economic development or not.

Well, the professional liberal agitator in town conjured up a plan to "save the tree".    He convinced a bare majority of the town leaders to condition approving the condo plan on the developer agreeing to save the tree by moving it to another location on the site.  Nobody had the guts to tell him to eff off.  Everybody was terrified of being branded "anti-tree".

Well, you guessed it.  By the time the "arborist" got done killing the tree, the developer had poured $30k into a hole in the ground. Then the economy tanked and the condos never got built anyway.

The professional liberal agitator in town would laugh himself wet at how, for his own amusement,  he duped the town into forcing the developer to blow $30k on a tree.

That's 21st century streetcars.

Posted by: Ed at November 28, 2014 11:52 AM (4HYng)

340 Permanence is a bad feature since it can't adapt to changing populations -- which inevitably will change over the span of decades. Local people voting for something dumb is still dumb. I am curious about the financing. I know the Left's big push is for an Infrastructure Bank -- I think the idea is then the local will be able to build local infrastructure while borrowing at Fed rates. How much of that already happens? How much are municipal bonds subsidized by the state and Feds? How much official subsidy and how much is implicit, know the state and Feds often step in to save a failing, over-budget project?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:52 AM (zwdxl)

341 And for the record, the only car I bought new was a Gremlin. Let the hate begin

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 11:55 AM (Lqy/e)

342

Had a colleague once tell me about a childhood friend who climbed on top of the tram just to electrocute himself to death.  Knew of an incident where a guy leaned over the rail as a tram came buy and killed him.

 

Trial lawyers are already probably licking their chops.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at November 28, 2014 11:55 AM (8KWwB)

343 It's all about liberals self pleasuring with other peoples money. Posted by: Snidely Whiplash If liberals constitute a majority in any given area, then they are essentially taxing themselves for their own self-pleasuring fantasies. Which they should have the right to do. Yes, it'd suck to be an opponent of wasteful transit taxation and live in that city, and be forced to pay the tax you didn't want -- but that is true on a whole raft of issues, and why cities often self-segregate into politicized ghettos, as the low-tax crowd flees to the suburbs and incorporates a town and votes No to new taxes there. Dense urban areas are liberal enclaves. That's just how the population landscape has evolved. Better to have them all rounded up on their own self-determined corrals, than have then run around infecting the non-urban areas. And as an advocate of "local control," I must concede that if a city is 70% liberal fantasists, then they can vote for whatever taxes they want, god bless 'em.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 11:55 AM (K4YiS)

344  Add that to the GM/Chrysler bondholder looting of 2009. Anyone here follow that? Thought I saw somewhere last year that some court had - finally - said "um, no, that doesn't look kosher" about that whole affair.

Which, I would submit for horde consideration, was one of the most damaging, shocking, and important specific acts of illegality in the US, ever.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 04:24 PM (afQnV)


Fun fact: who got hosed by the GM/Chrysler bondholder reamout? Liberals will tell you it was "the hedge funds," apparently thinking that hedge fund managers are investing their own money. The money in fact comes from the limited partners. In the GM/Chrysler bondholder auto da fe, the limited partner who got hosed the worst was ... the Michigan State Teachers' Pension Fund.


You've got to laugh.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:56 AM (oKE6c)

345 Yeah, in general I'm find with local decision-making. But still gonna argue against locals making dumb local decisions. Also there are large, well-funded orgs who constantly, constantly lobby for increased transit and anti-highway -- seems many of these orgs get taxpayer money. Also the courts routinely block highways -- often as the EPA and eco-nazi groups team up -- with a billion eco-regs that raise costs massively. Same courts then give a pass to mass transit projects, waving through the paperwork. The heavy hand of govt seems to be taking sides consistently.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:56 AM (zwdxl)

346 Mass transit? One word: mopeds.

Posted by: Soichiro Honda at November 28, 2014 11:57 AM (lG2E3)

347 The good people of Cincinnati voted this town and voted this down and voted this down and finally voted in a city council which promised to kill it once and for all--which then promptly turned around and gave it the green light. It runs for a grand total of half a mile. Millions of dollars later the downtown streets are under horrific construction, just in time for the All Star Game, and we were asked to fund a giant levy to preserve Union Terminal because there was no money to keep it from falling down on itself.

Posted by: Filly at November 28, 2014 11:57 AM (ZWmKk)

348 If the local citizenry of a municipality willingly votes to fund public transit

Theory <> Practice where LOCAL = CITY = DEMOCRAT = CRONYISM = winds up on Uncle Sugartits $ wagon for %s > 0 every damn time.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 11:57 AM (DL2i+)

349 n the GM/Chrysler bondholder auto da fe, the limited partner who got hosed the worst was ... the Michigan State Teachers' Pension Fund.
You've got to laugh.


You won't be laughing when they apply for a bailout....and get it.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 11:57 AM (4nR9/)

350 Left also wants metro-wide tax authority so the urban core can tax the burbs to pay for light rail and crap. That's a big thing Obama and Dems are pushing for.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:57 AM (zwdxl)

351 None of these big projects are ever done without Fed money or guarantees anymore.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 28, 2014 11:58 AM (NtzGn)

352 Shorter Ron Fournier: Hate the game, not the player. Or something...

Posted by: USA at November 28, 2014 11:58 AM (m8hf7)

353 Flying monkeys the original drones Also, the hardest to catch of all the fucking monkeys.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 11:58 AM (wjzs6)

354 I find your ideas intriguing but wish to unsubscribe to your newsletter. Posted by: Snidely Whiplash DENIED! The Collective has voted, and you shall keep receiving the newsletter. Re-education for you!

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 11:58 AM (K4YiS)

355 And as an advocate of "local control," I must concede that if a city is 70% liberal fantasists, then they can vote for whatever taxes they want, god bless 'em.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 04:55 PM (K4YiS)



The problem is that, having voted for the taxes, many liberals don't like the result, and flee to a low-tax low-regulation conservative place, where they once again vote for the same shit that they just fled. What do you call people who don't learn from experience? Oh yeah. "Stupid."

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 11:58 AM (oKE6c)

356 WRT local control of transit decisions, obviously this this infinitely superior to federal planning. Issues do crop up when a portion of the federal highway gasoline tax (you know, the one for Highways) goes to fund the local transit projects via the mass transit account. I never remember if it's like 0.6 cents per gal or 1.6 cents per gal.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at November 28, 2014 11:59 AM (PGXA8)

357

First thought when I saw an Enigma/Bletchley Park movie was being made: barf.  I of course knew it would be all about Turing's utterly uninteresting personal life, vs. yet another unbelievably spectacular and critical chapter of mankind's greatest organized undertaking (WWII) finally being popularized.

 

As a WWII geek, a sane historically literate person, and an anti-narcissist (yes, waaaaay out there on the lonely fringe of today's societal bell curve), this is especially infuriating - if true.  Almost cannot bear to look into it.

 

BTW, it's so bad, I cringed at Clint's "Flags of our Fathers" (so lacking was the true-story magic and power of the book), and just about yelled something in the theater at the companion "Letters from Iwo Jima" (which I termed the last atrocity of the Pacific War).  If you're gonna do a serious WWII movie about real events, Clint and others, at least do them right - you'll know you did if there are widespread wailing and screeching of illiterate fury from the usual suspects.  So many of these stores require absolutely Zero embellishment of any sort to be utterly compelling dramas.  But they're mangled and about 90% of their non-entertainment value is discarded.

 

Lone Survivor.  If you haven't seen it, don't bother.  If you haven't read the book, do so immediately, or drop and give me 50.

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 11:59 AM (afQnV)

358 If a city like Detroit bankrupts itself with dumb ideas and only Detroit suffered ... but we know that's not how it works.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 11:59 AM (zwdxl)

359 353 Shorter Ron Fournier: Hate the game, not the player.

Or something... Posted by: USA


Ron Fournier has suddenly achieved a high profile, probably due to his appearances on FNC.  He always tries to play the "reasonable moderate", but he's just a lib with a mild, milquetoast demeanor.  He grows wearisome.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 12:00 PM (4nR9/)

360

zombie, what Jay and Guy said, plus a few other things.

 

You're conflating critcism of stupid substance with criticism of process (i.e. locals voting for the Unicorn fart statue).  Don't think anybody objects to localities making their own decisions.  But getting state/federal money for their mistakes, and doing stupid things that impoverish them relatively speaking, are surely open to evaluation and criticism.

 

Posted by: rhomboid at November 28, 2014 12:01 PM (afQnV)

361 And all we're doing here is arguing that trolley cars and light rail are usually boondoggles and dumb ideas.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 12:01 PM (zwdxl)

362 271 I have not heard of any new court action on the atrocities that occurred with the GM and Chrysler bondholders. There was some positive court rulings against GM on behalf of the dealerships that the Democrats and Obama(not a hyperbole, this was found to be true) closed based on their contribution records to political parties. http://dealerlaw.com/news-events/detail/?id=22 Those lawsuits continue today. GM/Canada dealers also have a class action lawsuit currently active.

Posted by: Jen the original at November 28, 2014 12:02 PM (hjTr7)

363 I'm a nostalgia buff, and I like trains too. I cannot fathom the obsession with modern light rail.  It does NOT work.

Posted by: TheDissentingVoice at November 28, 2014 12:02 PM (Oz31N)

364 333 For the cost of light rail, you could have bus service every five minutes. Posted by: Grampa Jimbo 335 I talked to an urban planner - to my surprise he didn't like trains or streetcars in cities. Sure there's less rolling resistance, but he said bus routes are flexible and can be altered not so much rail lines. You're committed. No flexibility Posted by: Erik L True and true. The dirty secret is that MOST urban planner DON'T LIKE urban rail for those very two reasons: Buses get you much more bang for you buck, and buses are more flexible. And that is correct. HOWEVER, the permanence of light rail lines is an insurance factor against the flippant decisions of future politicians and bureaucrats, which is why the hoi polloi like the concept of fixed light rail. Think about the London Tube, the Paris Metro, and the New York Subway. All of those started out as "urban light rail," but the eternal fixedness of the stations has come to define many neighborhoods and influence most housing decisions. Having permanent lines disempowers politicians, which can be a good thing.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:02 PM (K4YiS)

365 348.

It's incredibly easy to buy off town/city council members, their campaigns are dirt cheap.  You show up with $30,000 in campaign contributions from a development group and you can get any project you want completed.  Maybe a family member also gets a cushy job with them?

You also don't have primaries (usually) which means all it takes is name ID to win.

It's really amazing how residents will absolutely get flipped the bird by council members.  Public transportation and stadium deals would almost never pass if it was a ballot issue, much easier to buy off 4 people for a few grand a pop.

Posted by: Altec at November 28, 2014 12:03 PM (13G+x)

366 I'm a nostalgia buff, and I like trains too. I cannot fathom the obsession with modern light rail. It does NOT work.

Posted by: TheDissentingVoice at November 28, 2014 05:02 PM (Oz31N)


Rail will be the post-EMP answer to long haul transportation because STEAM!

Posted by: J Watt at November 28, 2014 12:04 PM (fL/7/)

367

@328 zombie

 

"But a light rail line? It's pretty much permanent and not as subject to the whims of politicians. You can't change the route, so they only way they can screw you is to shut down the whole light rail system.."

 

Uh, unions.

 

I live in Germany where alot of people depend on local rail to get to work.  They guys walked out for a week last month and brought ubran commuting to a stand still, so the highways were even more clogged.  They will get their demands met and guess where the money is going to come from?

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at November 28, 2014 12:05 PM (8KWwB)

368 Hi. Still cold. Lovely Husband has booked me a flight out of Yellowknife Sunday, staying in Calgary overnight then home Monday. Thank god.

Posted by: Gingy in Canada where it's cold at November 28, 2014 12:07 PM (xBPyN)

369 It was once proposed to build some kind of rail system from Denver to Vail, so yuppies could go skiing.

Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 12:07 PM (9vrWU)

370 Wuppertal has an elevated street-car system which looks and is very cool:  Like a sleek tube 15-20 meters above the street, whooshing along. between steel griders / arches


Might have been Dusseldorf, but I think it was in Wuppertal.


 Germans:  Whadya gonna do with ze Germans?  They're so diligent and efficient...

Posted by: Lou Reed, life coach to the stars at November 28, 2014 12:08 PM (8CdUx)

371 341 Permanence is a bad feature since it can't adapt to changing populations -- which inevitably will change over the span of decades. Posted by: Costanza Defense Not true. At least the "inevitably" part is not true. As I aid in my original comment, certain (not all) neighborhoods are essentially unchanging, decade after decade, and there is an extremely good chance that the transit will be used there 10, 20, even 50 or 100 years from now. In dense built-up areas, with few or no empty lots, with a middle-class or upper-middle-class population, the housing/population landscape in a neighborhood can remain static for generation after generation. "Bedroom communities" (or " bedroom neighborhoods") are not in constant flux. yes, some collapsing urban cores do change, and ex-urbs bloom, but stable areas don't. And it's those areas that crave the light rail.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:09 PM (K4YiS)

372 Joe Rogan @joerogan I want to meet the person that decided how much paper towel comes out each time from an automatic dispenser. I bet they're one cheap bitch.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 12:09 PM (zwdxl)

373 I rode the Mattapan-Ashmont (Boston MBTA) trolley line when I went to high school back in the early 50's. It is 2.7 miles long, and has the distinction of being the only trolley line that runs thru the middle of a cemetery. As a trolley line it was pretty efficient; the only time it conflicted with automobile traffic was when it crossed two streets, one crossing was near the end of a dead-end street. The cars then were probably built in the 1930's. It is still in use today, using (per Wikipedia) re-built PCC's which probably were built in the 1940's. Elites, if you want a real trolley, try this! Don't try to foist a street trolley on us.

Posted by: Coarsehair at November 28, 2014 12:10 PM (XYUcD)

374 and Berlin has an elevated railway, formerly run by the Commies


if you dozed off / missed your stop, you might end up in East Berlin, as the S-Bahn went chugging right over the Wall and the Spree near the old Reich Chancellory



Posted by: Lou Reed, life coach to the stars at November 28, 2014 12:12 PM (8CdUx)

375 373 Joe Rogan @joerogan
I want to meet the person that decided how much paper towel comes out each time from an automatic dispenser. I bet they're one cheap bitch. Posted by: Costanza Defense


And they said I obsessed over picayune nonsense. 

Posted by: Zombie Andy Rooney at November 28, 2014 12:12 PM (4nR9/)

376 This nostalgia for light rail / streetcars of yesterday neglects the economy when they were built.

Having personal transportation in the city back when the rails were first laid was ungodly fricken expensive - very few old (1900's) neighborhoods had any provision to park your horse and carriage in, only the wealthiest city dweller could afford to stable a horse in the city then. Horses are even more expensive today, other than tourist carriages and some mounted cops, I don't think anybody has horses in the big city.

Back then, rails were cost effective and just about everybody was willing to pay the fair. I bet even the rich folks ditched their horses and carriages and road the rails (but quickly re-purposed the carriage house when autos came into their price range).


Today they cover up the fact that rails will never pay for themselves.
DIFFERENT ECONOMY

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 28, 2014 12:12 PM (NaeCR)

377 352 None of these big projects are ever done without Fed money or guarantees anymore. Posted by: Guy Mohawk /i] That is the fly in the ointment of my theory. But once again, the power of the ballot box arises: If you don't want the Feds funding local wasteful transit, vote for representatives who will defund it! Advocate.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:12 PM (K4YiS)

378 The only kind of mass transit I like is the subway. Put it and its users underground where they stay out of the way of me driving on my roads.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at November 28, 2014 12:12 PM (IN7k+)

379 For Christmas I might buy myself a rear view car camera, but only if it's wireless.

Posted by: Please Don't Squeeze The Soothsayer at November 28, 2014 12:13 PM (prTbl)

380 Though rails might be cost effective in a linear city like Honolulu

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 28, 2014 12:13 PM (NaeCR)

381 Great. The Germans have a 240 mpg car.

Posted by: Boss Moss at November 28, 2014 12:13 PM (ZeBBB)

382 They used to have a trolley system in Columbus, GA.  It's gone, but to make the trolley-lovers feel better, they now have these:



http://tinyurl.com/nk4muob



Libs don't want to ride buses?  Give 'em buses that let them pretend they're on trolleys.

Posted by: Country Singer at November 28, 2014 12:13 PM (nL0sw)

383 Re-education for you! Wow, surprise -- Off to reeducation camp, at the hands of zombie. Listen, upthread I mentioned going to San Fran. Tourist attraction Top Ten. I assume there is some local tax on hotels and tourist traps to fund the enterprise, because there sure weren't enough people on that car to cover the myriad costs of such a limited route. Please don't me wade into the sewer swamp of my memory to remember the hundreds of costs associated with running any business. When the govt says, cost is X -- double or triple that number, even then it might be too low.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 12:14 PM (zxQ4h)

384 The Poors smell, too - just ask Hawwy Weid

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) [/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 12:14 PM (/dvmK)

385 379 The only kind of mass transit I like is the subway. Put it and its users underground where they stay out of the way of me driving on my roads.

It can have other uses, too.

Posted by: Londoners, 1940 at November 28, 2014 12:14 PM (4nR9/)

386 Cincinnati is going through the streetcar phase right now. Part of it goes through a rough part of town. Besides the probably myriad of traffic accidents with locals who don't have insurance, how exactly will the city afford the union contracts for the drivers? How will they afford the upkeep on the cars and rails? Just asking, as the project isn't expected to be profitable in a city that is underwater on its pension obligations. But of course, it just looks so cool.

Posted by: Grumpyguy at November 28, 2014 12:15 PM (6OScs)

387 Democrats and the Left are the sucking chest wound of America

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 28, 2014 12:15 PM (u82oZ)

388 The Marta smells like mixture of vomit and ass.

Posted by: Boss Moss at November 28, 2014 12:15 PM (ZeBBB)

389 Wow, that Georgi Boorman (the writer of the Federalist piece linked in the article) is a cutie! The more pundits like her we have on our side, the better. After all, young men will go where the good-looking women are, and that's increasingly on the Right.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at November 28, 2014 12:15 PM (5pg79)

390 O/T... sort of... The Ed Driscoll article in the sidebar misses one important part of the problem. In modern America, we have feminized the society to the point where its more important to be NICE, than be Right.... more important to be NICE, than FAIR.... more important to be NICE, than Strong... Which is how we have the Gay Mafia... or the stupid Lawsuits for the American with Disabilities Act... or even the constant Rant of Racism... Its also how they created the Free Shit Army....

Posted by: The Big Bad Wolf at November 28, 2014 12:15 PM (f0pWu)

391 So ... I read the article, skipped most of the posts.


I can't be the only one that noticed that the author was GOOD GAWD ALMIGHTY FRIGGIN' HAWT !!!


I can't be.  No way.

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 12:16 PM (xWPj1)

392 I can't drive 55... ...in a streetcar.

Posted by: Sammy Hagar[/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:16 PM (0HooB)

393 389 The Marta smells like mixture of vomit and ass.

No love for me?

Posted by: Stale Urine at November 28, 2014 12:16 PM (4nR9/)

394 361 zombie, what Jay and Guy said, plus a few other things. You're conflating critcism of stupid substance with criticism of process (i.e. locals voting for the Unicorn fart statue). Don't think anybody objects to localities making their own decisions. But getting state/federal money for their mistakes, and doing stupid things that impoverish them relatively speaking, are surely open to evaluation and criticism. Posted by: rhomboid I agree, and the solution is to pressure the Feds to defund local transit project, and to also pressure the Feds to stop bailing out failed liberal urban communes. And yes, bad decisions are open to evaluation and criticism, but I don't want us to be like Bloomberg-esque nanny staters who try to forbid people from making their own bad decisions if they choose to. Watch from afar and mock. But be light with the hand of compulsion.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:17 PM (K4YiS)

395 #392: You're not the only one. I posted about her good looks right before you did, at #390.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at November 28, 2014 12:17 PM (5pg79)

396 Stella!!! Stella!!!

Posted by: Boss Moss at November 28, 2014 12:17 PM (ZeBBB)

397 It was once proposed to build some kind of rail system from Denver to Vail, so yuppies could go skiing.
-------
I don't think that is completely off the table. They are desperately trying to figure out what to do about the I-70 corridor from Denver to Vail. CDOT estimates that for every hour the interstate is shut down due to bad weather through the mountains costs the state $100,000 or more. There are some places that they could widen the interstate but there are others where it wouldn't be cost effective to try to bring down half a mountain. And you can't forget the choke point at the Eisenhower/Johnson tunnels.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 12:18 PM (vVSOO)

398 396 #392: You're not the only one. I posted about her good looks right before you did, at #390.


Good then.  For a minute, I was worried I stopped in at the wrong message board.

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 12:19 PM (xWPj1)

399 335 I talked to an urban planner - to my surprise he didn't like trains or streetcars in cities. Sure there's less rolling resistance, but he said bus routes are flexible and can be altered not so much rail lines. You're committed. No flexibility
Posted by: Erik L



Hence my comment in #168.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 12:20 PM (oKE6c)

400 Arlington VA just cancelled a long-planned street car project. This was on a county board of 4 liberals and 1 independent.

Posted by: bjk at November 28, 2014 12:20 PM (DOgiJ)

401 Old Blue at November 28, 2014 05:18 PM (vVSOO) Who is going to pay for it? The entire State, I assume.

Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 12:21 PM (9vrWU)

402 CDOT estimates that for every hour the interstate is shut down due to bad weather through the mountains costs the state $100,000 or more.

After all of the costs are factored in, you could doubtless fly them in by helicopter more cheaply.  In any case, when did it become the responsibility of the state to bail out idiot slope operators.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 12:21 PM (4nR9/)

403 The only kind of mass transit I like is the subway. Put it and its users underground where they stay out of the way of me driving on my roads. A little history rock for teh Horde. Sub Rosa Subway - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiRUOzJ-FrE Alfred Beech started the National Geographic Society, too. The Morse code at the end actually spells something, I'd look it up except Beam and Friday.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:21 PM (0HooB)

404 I did see several commenters hit it ... this is just another move about control.  Pure and simple.

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 12:21 PM (xWPj1)

405 Milwaukee wants one of these. They haven't figured out how to pay the millions for utility cost relocation

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 28, 2014 12:22 PM (y2suD)

406 405 I did see several commenters hit it ... this is just another move about control. Pure and simple. Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 05:21 PM (xWPj1) Don't forget us!

Posted by: Graft and Cronyism at November 28, 2014 12:23 PM (zoehZ)

407 Ronster, I wouldn't have a bit of a problem if it was completely financed by all the hipsters hitting the slopes in places like Vail and Aspen. They certainly have the bucks to burn. But sadly, you're right. People that never even see the slopes would be paying for it.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 12:25 PM (vVSOO)

408 If that vag steaming article in the sidebar doesn't deserve a full post by the boss , nothing does .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at November 28, 2014 12:25 PM (HkkyM)

409 Streetcars? I like it when they ring the bell. I wish I could ring the bell sometimes.

Posted by: Joe Biden at November 28, 2014 12:26 PM (MPK82)

410 Metro trains and trams work in cities with two criteria: Density of all social classes. Cities that were built around mass transit, both physically and mentally. Trying to impose a mass transit system on a city that doesn't have those will never work.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 28, 2014 12:26 PM (g1DWB)

411 CDOT should consider Imperial Walkers.

Posted by: Boss Moss at November 28, 2014 12:26 PM (ZeBBB)

412 As I aid in my original comment, certain (not all) neighborhoods are essentially unchanging, decade after decade, and there is an extremely good chance that the transit will be used there 10, 20, even 50 or 100 years from now.

In dense built-up areas, with few or no empty lots, with a middle-class or upper-middle-class population, the housing/population landscape in a neighborhood can remain static for generation after generation.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 05:09 PM (K4YiS)


You mean like Ferguson?


My older son asked why med schools (especially in the Northeast) tend to be in such shitty areas. I explained that when the schools were founded, the area was nice, even tony. The areas became shitty over time, and haven't yet recovered, if they ever will. 


So I wouldn't presume that ANY area would be stable over time.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 12:26 PM (oKE6c)

413 zombie's argument falls apart when you realize every transportation project is under the thumb of the federal and state DOT's, along with their funding. I doubt the local municipalities are contributing even 15% of the total cost of any project, more like 5%.

Posted by: lowandslow at November 28, 2014 12:26 PM (7Nq2G)

414 LOCAL CONTROL If the local citizenry of a municipality willingly votes to fund public transit (which otherwise is not self-sustaining), then what business is it of ours to criticize them? We can criticize, mock and doomsay to our hearts content. What we shouldn't do is try to stop them when it's not our money. Let a thousand flowers wilt!

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 12:27 PM (rwI+c)

415 Trying to impose a mass transit system on a city that doesn't have those will never work. Sun Rail down here hadn't been in service for a week before there was an accident at a crossing. Your government atwerk.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:27 PM (0HooB)

416 Here's the other problem with focusing on light rail: a lot of traffic is truck traffic. Portland really let the highways deteriorate because they were focused on bike paths. They have traffic jams even on the weekends now.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 12:28 PM (Lqy/e)

417 Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet. they're trying to do this in University City MO. Put in a street car down Delmar in the loop* to ship rich, east coast liberaltards to the restaurants, theaters, galleries and head-shops. The original cost estimate on the project was 20 mil. No bid came in for less than 35 mil, and that is probably a stupid low-ball to get to the change-order table. Oh, and any morons in StL, stay the hell away from Manchester and 270, and West County Mall. A shit ton of mostly peacefuls f'ng things up there.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 28, 2014 12:29 PM (5buP8)

418 We can criticize, mock and doomsay to our hearts content. What we shouldn't do is try to stop them when it's not our money.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 05:27 PM (rwI+c)



But that's exactly the point: it's not their money. After they piss away theirs, it's ours they want to piss away on their idiotic programs. If it were just their own, no problem. But that's not the way of the modern liberal.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i] at November 28, 2014 12:29 PM (oKE6c)

419 I remember being kinda liberalish as a young man. Then I learned accounting. Then computers came along. Then I was suddenly writing General Ledger applications. Then I'm punching in hundreds of vendor names on the 'cost' side of the equation. So I don't need reeducation as much as some people need edumacation as to costs, and who is going to pay for such costs.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 12:29 PM (zxQ4h)

420 I doubt the local municipalities are contributing even 15% of the total cost of any project, more like 5%.
Posted by: lowandslow

Honoruru had 10% - they still turned it down even though their own in-state taxes on the bulk of the 90% expended there would have covered their 10%

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 28, 2014 12:30 PM (NaeCR)

421 *the Loop: think Boulder of the Mid West.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 28, 2014 12:30 PM (5buP8)

422 Let Darth Buffet pay for it.

Posted by: Boss Moss at November 28, 2014 12:30 PM (ZeBBB)

423 411 Metro trains and trams work in cities with two criteria: Density of all social classes. Cities that were built around mass transit, both physically and mentally. Trying to impose a mass transit system on a city that doesn't have those will never work. Posted by: JackStraw Correct! Some cities/neighborhoods are seemingly custom-designed to benefit from reliable mass transit options. Other areas and cities -- not so much. There is no blanket "position" that applies to all situations. That's why I thought the article was a little off-base -- to condemnatory of ALL fixed rail, and not considering local factors.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:30 PM (K4YiS)

424 If that vag steaming article in the sidebar doesn't deserve a full post by the boss , nothing does . Are there any bubbles? (Longtime Hordesters will remember...)

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:31 PM (0HooB)

425 Robo-cars are gonna change everything in a few decades. A lot of the money the Feds are gonna put into transit might be better spent trying accelerate robo-cars.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 28, 2014 12:32 PM (zwdxl)

426 4 Horses and buggies are even more quaint.

And so much greener....

and then so much, much browner...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 28, 2014 12:32 PM (XO6WW)

427 If your vag is steaming you should see a doctor

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:33 PM (zOTsN)

428 [i.]...and then so much, much browner...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 28, 2014 05:32 PM (XO6WW)



So much the easier to fertilize the Urban Community Organic Garden!

Posted by: Country Singer at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (nL0sw)

429 CDOT should consider Imperial Walkers.
-------
Oh yeah. That would be way cool.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (vVSOO)

430 If they post that Vag Steaming article at HOt AIr, Ace might see it.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (Hda9I)

431 429 If your vag is steaming you should see a doctor Posted by: ThunderB

Insert obligatory Sandra Fluke joke here.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (4nR9/)

432 Well hell.

Posted by: Country Singer at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (nL0sw)

433 "Honoruru had 10% - they still turned it down even though their own in-state taxes on the bulk of the 90% expended there would have covered their 10%"

I think people are getting wise to that fact that trying to sell a transportation project when the main selling point is that the feds are paying for 80% doesn't mean shit when the feds have no money. 

Posted by: lowandslow at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (7Nq2G)

434 I don't ride the train, but I've pulled a few.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (MMC8r)

435 81 degrees today. ... 81 degrees! WHY is it 81 degrees the day after Thanksgiving!?

Posted by: junior at November 28, 2014 12:34 PM (UWFpX)

436 Are there any bubbles? (Longtime Hordesters will remember...) I always liked Double Bubble.

Posted by: THE Girl with Two Vaginas at November 28, 2014 12:35 PM (Hda9I)

437 Insert obligatory Sandra Fluke joke here. Actually, she's in a good mood right now. *runs away*

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:35 PM (0HooB)

438 In our case, we would have paid for the light rail. We have our own transit company, but the money to run it would have gone to Portland's Tri-Met. It's really insane. A lot of people moved to Vancouver from Portland because of high taxes. So WA state has to come up with ways to jack up property taxes. They wanted to make the new bridge a toll bridge. This would basically kill the housing market for us. No one wants to pay a toll to commute to work.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 12:36 PM (Lqy/e)

439 414 zombie's argument falls apart when you realize every transportation project is under the thumb of the federal and state DOT's, along with their funding. I doubt the local municipalities are contributing even 15% of the total cost of any project, more like 5%. Posted by: lowandslow I'm unsure of the percentages, but I won't disagree with you. Yet as I said in subsequent comments, the solution to the problem of Feds doling out money cronyistically to Dem-voting urban areas for transit boondoggles can once again be addressed at the ballot box: VOTE TEA PARTY, vote for anti-crony-capitalist representatives, vote for smaller government and lower taxes, and put more and more pressure on the Feds to stop the handouts. Even so, if a local municipality (or regions) want to tax themselves for whatever boondoggle they want, then they have the right to do so. What they DON'T have the right to is a free handout of money from taxpayers outside their area.

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:36 PM (K4YiS)

440 There is no blanket "position" that applies to all situations. Other than if it's doable and profitable, the private sector will do it.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 12:36 PM (rwI+c)

441 Vag steaming is an ancient Native American ritual that dates back to when the white man first metal brought teapots to my people.

Posted by: Elizabeth "Three Wolf Moon" Warren at November 28, 2014 12:36 PM (MPK82)

442 In any case, when did it become the responsibility of the state to bail out idiot slope operators.

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 05:21 PM (4nR9/)


Can you say campaign contributors and cronies, yes, yes, I think you can!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 12:37 PM (fL/7/)

443 I'd steam my vag but boiling 3,000 gallons takes forever.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 28, 2014 12:37 PM (MMC8r)

444 Other than if it's doable and profitable, the private sector will do it. I liken it to Green Energy: if it made sense, we'd already be doing it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:38 PM (0HooB)

445 We can criticize, mock and doomsay to our hearts content. What we shouldn't do is try to stop them when it's not our money. Let a thousand flowers wilt! Posted by: toby928(C) +100 for clear-minded libertarian principles! +500 for sarcastic Maoism reference!

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:38 PM (K4YiS)

446 No one wants to pay a toll to commute to work. There have to be at least 100 million people on the east coast who would love to pay only one toll on the way to work.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 12:38 PM (Hda9I)

447 No one wants to pay a toll to commute to work. There have to be at least 100 million people on the east coast who would love to pay only one toll on the way to work.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 12:38 PM (Hda9I)

448 443 Vag steaming is an ancient Native American ritual that dates back to when the white man first metal brought teapots to my people. Posted by: Elizabeth "Three Wolf Moon" Warren

Hmmmm, I know she's famous for oyster casserole, but steamed clams?

Posted by: pep at November 28, 2014 12:38 PM (4nR9/)

449 Steamed vag is more healthful than deep fried vag After you steam it you can toss it in a soy fish sauce

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:39 PM (zOTsN)

450 Vag steaming is an ancient Native American ritual that dates back to when the white man first metal brought teapots to my people. Moss + Hot river stone.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 12:39 PM (Hda9I)

451 "I think people are getting wise to that fact that trying to sell a transportation project when the main selling point is that the feds are paying for 80% doesn't mean shit when the feds have no money."

That went down about 15 years ago. For some reason Unions were against it...
Busses would have still run the milkroutes up the hills and down the valleys.

Also one of the few places that, due to geography, should be self sufficient

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 28, 2014 12:40 PM (NaeCR)

452 With vag steaming, the trick is not to overcook.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 28, 2014 12:40 PM (MPK82)

453 Even so, if a local municipality (or regions) want to tax themselves for whatever boondoggle they want, then they have the right to do so. What they DON'T have the right to is a free handout of money from taxpayers outside their area.



Zombie ... Zombie ... Zombie ...


That kind of shit smacks of Federalism.  That ain't gonna' fly.  You let municipalities make their own stupid financial decisions - next thing you know, they'll start making their own stupid social decisions.


And by God, we can't have that.  No Siree Bob.  Not even a little.


What in the Hell are you son ?  Some kind of Long Haired Hippy Type Pinko Fag ?  I bet you even got a Commie Flag ... tacked up on the wall inside of your garage.

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 12:40 PM (xWPj1)

454 The best part of the train purchases is that they put them in big cities, but tax the entire state to pay for them. Sure, you live 300 miles away and never go to that city but its on your tab, buddy. Suck it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at November 28, 2014 12:40 PM (39g3+)

455 Sous-Vide, ftw.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 12:42 PM (Hda9I)

456 441 414 zombie's argument falls apart when you realize every transportation project is under the thumb of the federal and state DOT's, along with their funding. I doubt the local municipalities are contributing even 15% of the total cost of any project, more like 5%. Posted by: lowandslow The U-City project I mentioned is trying to fund privately, IIRC, Joe Edwards, the guy who almost single-handedly gentrified the area is trying to get investors for the project. I'm sure there is a ton of public money via grants, exemptions and she'll groups. The whole project is still stupid as hell, and has a constituency of 1 private university.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at November 28, 2014 12:43 PM (5buP8)

457 " Sure, you live 300 miles away and never go to that city but its on your tab, buddy. Suck it."


That is usually just the construction cost over runs and annual operating losses.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 28, 2014 12:43 PM (NaeCR)

458 While you are steaming your vag you can add jullianned carrots and some snap peas

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:43 PM (zOTsN)

459 Old and busted: vag steaming teh new hotness: vag vaping

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 28, 2014 12:44 PM (MPK82)

460 What we shouldn't do is try to stop them when it's not our money.

What part of IT'S ALWAYS YOUR MONEY did you miss?

Unless you're bartering for yak butter in Siberia some USD went into it somehow.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 12:44 PM (DL2i+)

461 Garrett, I'd bet that you wouldn't have voted to pay a toll either. We have an interstate bridge that they want to replace. But a lot of the commuting is in east county. It makes more sense to build a new bridge there. One of the other problems with this project was that the new design was lower, so it was too low for ship traffic. Army Corp of Engineers wasn't happy. Lots of money wasted, but it was better to stop it rather than move forward and waste more money.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 28, 2014 12:44 PM (Lqy/e)

462 >>After you steam it you can toss it in a soy fish sauce Posted by: ThunderB I've found I can never get the smell out of the sauce then.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 28, 2014 12:45 PM (3rrMW)

463 I poached a vag once.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at November 28, 2014 12:46 PM (F2IAQ)

464 The best part of the train purchases is that they put them in big cities, but tax the entire state to pay for them. Sure, you live 300 miles away and never go to that city but its on your tab, buddy. Suck it. Every few years somebody down here will start the light rail BS. One end always winds up at Disney and the other end at the airport. The touristas get to foot the bill, which is fine by me. I'd like to see the local city fathers and mothers try to diversify just a bit more. Disney hasn't done this area many favors recently, and they've ruined the music scene down here. Once they have you on their property, they don't want you to leave for any reason. I'm surprised International Drive exists at all, since it's outside Disney's Domain.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:46 PM (0HooB)

465 Now some people put a roll of their vag, while others prefer a train

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:46 PM (zOTsN)

466 Airline: Passenger was asked to deplane after her emotional support pig became disruptive: http://abcn.ws/1uZI5dq

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 12:46 PM (rwI+c)

467 True Fact : Steaming is the preferred method for preparing Red Snapper.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 12:46 PM (Hda9I)

468 Not a roll. A toll

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:47 PM (zOTsN)

469 "the solution to the problem of Feds doling out money cronyistically to Dem-voting urban areas for transit boondoggles can once again be addressed at the ballot box"

Oh we're passed that point, between the federal gas tax and the control the localities gave away by accepting federal dollars there's no going back till the weight of the entire debt collapses the system. Hell even the Ronald Reagan used the power of the federal transportation dollars to force the 21 year old drinking age across the board. Only way to wrestle the power away would be to end the Federal DOT and associated taxes.
Ain't going to happen.

Posted by: lowandslow at November 28, 2014 12:47 PM (7Nq2G)

470 Sous-Vide, ftw. Vagitarian cooking FTW.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:48 PM (0HooB)

471 Sure, you live 300 miles away and never go to that city but its on your tab, buddy. Suck it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at November 28, 2014 05:40 PM (39g3+)


Nothing says cost efficiency like central planning!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 12:48 PM (fL/7/)

472 That is usually just the construction cost over runs and annual operating losses. Posted by: Burnt ----- The cost per passenger-mile of our local bus system is absurd.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at November 28, 2014 12:48 PM (F2IAQ)

473 I really really do not recommend the use of chop sticks with steamed vag

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:48 PM (zOTsN)

474 I want a support lemur

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 12:48 PM (rwI+c)

475 Airline: Passenger was asked to deplane after her emotional support pig became disruptive: ------------- Arnold Ziffle, by chance? The pig, I mean.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 12:49 PM (F2IAQ)

476 Backwards Boy ...


... I'll be in Orlando in two weeks, for a week.  Care to have a MoMe ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 12:49 PM (xWPj1)

477 That's one dish I just won't go near.

Posted by: Andrew Zimmern at November 28, 2014 12:50 PM (yxw0r)

478 Or an personal defense chimp.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 12:51 PM (rwI+c)

479 Or an personal defense chimp. -------------- Wait.., is Trunkmonkey here?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 12:52 PM (F2IAQ)

480 468 Airline: Passenger was asked to deplane after her emotional support pig became disruptive: http://abcn.ws/1uZI5dq Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 05:46 PM (rwI+c) Thats a hell of a way to for the airline to treat the guy's wife!

Posted by: Havedash at November 28, 2014 12:52 PM (G1XMn)

481 It's not the heat, it's the humidity.

Posted by: Man in the boat at November 28, 2014 12:53 PM (yxw0r)

482 Even so, if a local municipality (or regions) want to tax themselves for whatever boondoggle they want, then they have the right to do so. **** It's been alluded to above and I'm sure most readers here are aware of it, but I'll say it again. The problem as I see it is the cynical misrepresentation of funding that is put forward by advocates and the local "pro-rail" factions. Just as with Medicaid, they sell it to their local constituencies as "the suckers in the other 49 states will pick up the majority of these costs." That mythical 'free' federal money is very seductive to local voters. Even though they end up paying for the lite rail in the other 49 states.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 12:53 PM (NeFrd)

483 ... I'll be in Orlando in two weeks, for a week. Care to have a MoMe ? Soitenly! We should see if we can get Insomniac too, since he/she's down here too. It'd also be nice to get the J'ville contingent here as well. Probably the best thing would be to meet up at one of my gigs, if I have one when you're here. You're on. Just don't let me forget about it...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire [/i][/s][/b][/u] at November 28, 2014 12:53 PM (0HooB)

484 American Airlines, the parent company of US Airways, confirmed to ABC News that a passenger brought the pig aboard as an emotional support animal. Protip: When your 'emotional support animal' is a pig, and you need such animal in order to fly, there aren't many 12 step programs around to handle your problem. First step -- make amends to all the bacon you've ever eaten? Not gonna happen.

Posted by: Snidely Whiplash[/i] at November 28, 2014 12:53 PM (zxQ4h)

485 Or an personal defense chimp.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 05:51 PM (rwI+c)


Trunk Monkey!

http://www.suburbanautogroup.com/trunk-monkey-videos/

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 12:53 PM (fL/7/)

486 Watch your mouth Havedash.  She's my Holstein !!!  Pure beef.


Ain't no porkin' goin' on with my woman.  No way.

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 28, 2014 12:54 PM (xWPj1)

487 OK, I know calicoes are insane to begin with, but my one-year-old calico rescue is sitting behind me methodically destroying the rim of a cardboard box one bite at a time.  She's been working on this box for days now.  WTH?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 28, 2014 12:54 PM (XO6WW)

488 toby - you left out the money quote from that story: "After the pig became disruptive, she was asked to leave, a spokesperson said."

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 12:54 PM (F2IAQ)

489 I saw Emotional Support Pig open for Meatloaf at the Orange County Dinner Theater in '95.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 12:55 PM (NeFrd)

490 Hroth - The one where he throws the body off of the bridge cracks me up every time.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 12:56 PM (F2IAQ)

491 What is Rosie ODonnell!

Posted by: ThunderB at November 28, 2014 12:56 PM (zOTsN)

492 "After the pig became disruptive, she was asked to leave, a spokesperson said." and to take her animal with her.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 12:56 PM (rwI+c)

493 You mean they won't let me bring my Emotional Support Rhinoceros on planes anymore? Bwaaaah! I'm being micro-aggressed!

Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 12:56 PM (K4YiS)

494 I know the recycled cardboard AoS membership plan has its limitations, but I still wish Pixy's formatting rules were consistent from day to day!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 12:57 PM (fL/7/)

495 toby - Exactly.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 12:57 PM (F2IAQ)

496 487 Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 05:53 PM (fL/7/)

http://youtu.be/l3GpxAyM6yc

BJ and the Bear baby

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 12:57 PM (/4AZU)

497 That's not a pig, it's a crutch.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 12:57 PM (NeFrd)

498 Houston spent over a billion dollars on a shitty rail system and plan on spending over a billion more to expand it all under the reasoning that we need it to compete with the other large metropolitan cities. I always argued that they could have spent that money on having the biggest and best police force in the world making it the envy of every city in America . Businesses would flock to relocate here.

Posted by: Bob Belcher at November 28, 2014 12:57 PM (3QAtO)

499 A steamed vag is nice. But I have one word for you: Tablescaping.

Posted by: Sandra Lee at November 28, 2014 12:58 PM (NDjAD)

500 OK, I know calicoes are insane to begin with, but my one-year-old calico rescue is sitting behind me methodically destroying the rim of a cardboard box one bite at a time. She's been working on this box for days now. WTH?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 28, 2014 05:54 PM (XO6WW)



Keep supplying cardboard boxes.  Better than the furniture.

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 12:58 PM (64d6n)

501 It was time for a new nic anyway.

Posted by: Emotional Support Pig [/i] at November 28, 2014 12:58 PM (zxQ4h)

502 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 05:56 PM (F2IAQ)

I thought that was one of the funniest sets of videos I have ever seen!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 12:58 PM (fL/7/)

503 Adam Carolla has a bit where he brings an "emotional support pelican" on a flight and it starts eating all the emotional support chiuhuahuas.

Posted by: Oschisms at November 28, 2014 12:59 PM (uqV2n)

504 Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 05:07 PM (9vrWU) Yes. And the fraud involved caused John to have to leave Civil Engineering after his very first job (although he liked accounting better anyway. The very first company he went to work for as a transportation planner was responsible for doing the traffic counts on I-70 with the task of recommending ways to improve it. Except that the manager of the brand new Transportation Planning section was a 20 year CDOT employee who *knew* that the desired answer was "build a train system" so that somehow the counts never got done (but old friends of the manager were getting paid money to do *nothing* as "independent contractors"). When John alerted the company president to this it became impossible for him to get any transportation planning job at all in Colorado.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 28, 2014 12:59 PM (GDulk)

505 richard - Does the box label say "Catnip", by any chance?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 12:59 PM (F2IAQ)

506 Emotional support pig? Isn't what Rosie ODonnell's wife calls her?

Posted by: Bob Belcher at November 28, 2014 12:59 PM (3QAtO)

507 >>OK, I know calicoes are insane to begin with, but my one-year-old calico rescue is sitting behind me methodically destroying the rim of a cardboard box one bite at a time. She's been working on this box for days now. WTH? It's pretty well acknowledged by most non-RINOs that cats are the spawn of satan. I wouldn't run out of boxes if I were you.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 28, 2014 01:00 PM (g1DWB)

508 When I steam my vag, the yarn gets wet.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 28, 2014 01:01 PM (MMC8r)

509 Ex had a cat that would destroy checks. Couldn't leave any laying around or she would shred them.

Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 01:02 PM (NDjAD)

510 511 Posted by: garrett at November 28, 2014 06:02 PM (NDjAD)

Definitely my ex reincarnated...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 01:02 PM (/4AZU)

511 Polliwog the 'Ette at November 28, 2014 05:59 PM (GDulk) Glad it worked out for John. So much fraud, so little time.

Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 01:03 PM (9vrWU)

512 Stanford is putting it to #8 UCLA.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 01:03 PM (rwI+c)

513 Steamed Vag?    With six you get egg roll.

Posted by: Count de Monet, Person of Pallor at November 28, 2014 01:04 PM (JO9+V)

514 Steamed Vag? With six sex you get egg roll. So close.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 01:05 PM (rwI+c)

515 Several years back when we bought new living room furniture, the salesman told us the fabric used was, get this, "cat resistant". Our cat took that as a personal challenge and has since proved them wrong. Very wrong. She's a one cat wrecking machine.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 01:05 PM (vVSOO)

516 My older son asked why med schools (especially in the Northeast) tend to be in such shitty areas. I explained that when the schools were founded, the area was nice, even tony. The areas became shitty over time, and haven't yet recovered, if they ever will. So I wouldn't presume that ANY area would be stable over time. Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 28, 2014 05:26 PM (oKE6c) U$C is one such example. When it was opened way back when, it was in a nice area that wasn't completely urbanized. Now it is in the middle crime central.

Posted by: The Collegiate Hat at November 28, 2014 01:05 PM (lN8KC)

517 I saw Emotional Support Pig open for Meatloaf at the Orange County Dinner Theater in '95. Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 05:55 PM I think I was there...Jim Steinman was en fuego that night

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 28, 2014 01:05 PM (KCxzN)

518 Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 06:03 PM (9vrWU) It meant three years living with his parents while he went back to school instead of advancing in his chosen field. At least he still had his integrity. The transportation planning division of that company ended up being shut down, which is a bit of a shame since John actually like the company owner and thought he was a decent person who just trusted the wrong guy to run a new division.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 28, 2014 01:06 PM (GDulk)

519 Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 06:03 PM (9vrWU) It meant three years living with his parents while he went back to school instead of advancing in his chosen field. At least he still had his integrity. The transportation planning division of that company ended up being shut down, which is a bit of a shame since John actually like the company owner and thought he was a decent person who just trusted the wrong guy to run a new division.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 28, 2014 01:06 PM (GDulk)

520 Dang! double clicked post after all.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 28, 2014 01:06 PM (GDulk)

521 Six is good. You have a problem with six?

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 01:07 PM (rwI+c)

522 Think about the London Tube, the Paris Metro, and the New York Subway. All of those started out as "urban light rail," but the eternal fixedness of the stations has come to define many neighborhoods and influence most housing decisions. Having permanent lines disempowers politicians, which can be a good thing. Posted by: zombie at November 28, 2014 05:02 PM (K4YiS) Isn't that the plot to "Five Millioin Years to Earth"?

Posted by: Bernard Quatermas at November 28, 2014 01:07 PM (lN8KC)

523 Ruh Roh.... Breitbart... 50 year old White Male in Austin Texas just shot up the Police, and Mexican Consulate... tried to burn down the consulate.... Left and DHS goes nuts in 3... 2...

Posted by: The Big Bad Wolf at November 28, 2014 01:08 PM (f0pWu)

524 525 Posted by: The Big Bad Wolf at November 28, 2014 06:08 PM (f0pWu)


"well that's different than Ferguson..."

actually I'll bet the guy is an occutard.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at November 28, 2014 01:09 PM (/4AZU)

525 It meant three years living with his parents while he went back to school instead of advancing in his chosen field. Not to mention the extra cost and inconvenience to his parents.

Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 01:09 PM (9vrWU)

526 Left and DHS goes nuts in 3... 2... Luckily, Rush Limbaugh was on vacation.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 01:09 PM (rwI+c)

527 Dang! double clicked post after all. Don't let that trouble you. Just rub my belly. A little lower. Yeah, lower even.

Posted by: Emotional Support Pig [/i] at November 28, 2014 01:10 PM (zxQ4h)

528 Isn't that the plot to "Five Million Years to Earth"?
-------
I thought it was more like "A Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 01:10 PM (vVSOO)

529 OK, I gots a Horde-sourcing question: we have a movie-length break before the ONT. What to watch? An American Werewolf in London, Fargo, or Scarface?

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 28, 2014 01:13 PM (KCxzN)

530 I tried sneaking an emotional support pig onto a flight in my carry-on once, but someone squealed.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at November 28, 2014 01:14 PM (NeFrd)

531 Blows Corgi whistle

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 28, 2014 01:15 PM (F2IAQ)

532 Is there any truth to the rumor that a certain short mornette has a flock of emotional support raptors? Just asking...

Posted by: Havedash at November 28, 2014 01:17 PM (G1XMn)

533 I wanted an Emotional Support Hooters Girl after my hear procedure, but the airline, my doctors and my wife all objected.  Dammit.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 28, 2014 01:18 PM (XO6WW)

534 50 year old White Male in Austin Texas just shot up the Police, and Mexican Consulate... tried to burn down the consulate....  He hated the buildings!

Posted by: Navin R Johnson at November 28, 2014 01:21 PM (G1XMn)

535 Posted by: AltonJackson at November 28, 2014 06:13 PM (KCxzN) Listen to Van Morrison, watch the shower scene in Scarface and the whole movie The Cooler with William H Macy.

Posted by: Bob Belcher at November 28, 2014 01:22 PM (3QAtO)

536 Several years back when we bought new living room furniture, the salesman told us the fabric used was, get this, "cat resistant". Our cat took that as a personal challenge and has since proved them wrong. Very wrong. She's a one cat wrecking machine.

Posted by: Old Blue at November 28, 2014 06:05 PM (vVSOO)




How do you make furniture "cat-resistant?"

Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 01:24 PM (64d6n)

537 How do you make furniture "cat-resistant?" Make it out of dogs.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 28, 2014 01:25 PM (rwI+c)

538 How do you make furniture "cat-resistant?" Posted by: Vendette at November 28, 2014 06:24 PM (64d6n With a built in cataput, of course.

Posted by: Havedash at November 28, 2014 01:28 PM (G1XMn)

539 The automobile, owned by individuals, means freedom. With it, Americans are free to travel where they may. The Washington City regime does not like that. They do not like free people. Remember that. It is going to be important soon. Very soon.

Posted by: Erowmero at November 28, 2014 01:29 PM (go5uR)

540 Posted by: Ronster at November 28, 2014 06:09 PM (9vrWU) Very true. Especially since it included our kids (and two more while we lived there). It was supposed to be just a couple of months while he changed jobs in the same field (and was his parents idea since their house is huge). I doubt we would have done it if we'd known it would be three years and a complete career change I'm quite sure we would have found a different solution. As it is, all I can do is be very grateful and willing to help in return.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 28, 2014 01:33 PM (GDulk)

541 They do not like free people. Remember that. It is going to be important soon. Very soon.

Posted by: Erowmero at November 28, 2014 06:29 PM (go5uR)


Yet another reason they hate Keystone and fracking. 


People free to come and go as they please, and perhaps to associate with others of like mind, why a great society just can't tolerate that, comrade!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 28, 2014 01:33 PM (fL/7/)

542 Philly's five remaining trolley routes were buried underground in the '40s from narrow-street Center City out to 45th Street, where they surface to spread out across Southwest Philly. Streetcars connected rowhouse neighborhoods to good factory jobs, Penn and Drexel campuses, Pennsylvania Railroad, City Hall, both main subway lines, arenas and stadiums, hospitals, convention hall, theaters, downtown department stores and office towers. Manufacturing fled the city, decent neighborhoods became slums, suburban malls sucked out quality retail, movie theaters vanished. A smart, speedy, efficient, safe, clean system serving hollowed-out ghost town with modern Kawasaki trolleys. Which is most light rail in America: Making it easy to reach places nobody wants to go. There's one other trolley running across North Philly over devastated Girard Avenue. Either end of the line is gentrifying, cool neighborhoods, with four miles of Ferguson in between. Original 1930s rolling stock still running, but the interiors have been vandal-proofed with ugly modern seating. The far Northeast has quiet, nonsmelly trackless trolleys running on rubber tires.

Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at November 28, 2014 02:11 PM (z899H)

543 Jay: If your son is still looking at schools, I can convince him that West Philadelphia is much safer than you might expect. Not cleaner, or quieter, but definitely safer. Academics are OK.

Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at November 28, 2014 02:22 PM (z899H)

544 A thousand cuts- Austin recently banned plastic grocery bags. I'm saving the extra ones we don't use for the cats, etc. and sending them to my sister. You can cram a lot in a padded envelope...

Posted by: Sal at November 28, 2014 02:29 PM (9L1jT)

545 Fargo it was, now where's my ONT?

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 28, 2014 03:40 PM (KCxzN)

546 7 If they don't like the current image of buses, then perhaps I could interest them in some double-decker style buses. They are ever so European. Posted by: Stateless Infidel at November 28, 2014 03:16 PM (AC0lD) We have them here in the Pacific Northwest. Pain in the butt!

Posted by: The Man from Athens at November 28, 2014 03:45 PM (j37Ud)

547 41 I lost my virginity on a trolley in San Francisco! Posted by: Margaret Cho at November 28, 2014 03:24 PM (3/wAJ) That was you!?!?!?!??

Posted by: Burt Reynolds at November 28, 2014 03:49 PM (j37Ud)

548 They want to control your ability to move around. Trains only go one way, they can't get out to the hoods, so trains make the hoods come to them. I.E. high density, fewer cars, more people stacked up in condos, etc. All for the sake of doing away with 'sprawl'.

Posted by: train hater at November 28, 2014 04:18 PM (qvx9a)

549 Cincinnati downtown. Street car project construction in progress.  Millions involved.  Today, Black Friday, 12 noon, at least 12 horse and buggy carts lined up on Vine St not far from construction.  All waiting for customers.  I can't help but wonder what the street car will do for downtown that gentrification and free enterprise couldn't do better.  I guess time will tell.

Posted by: KathyP at November 28, 2014 04:19 PM (L1Vw2)

550 Yaaay for Arlington cancelling the Monorail, I mean streetcar.  Electing a single Republican to the county council, and then re-electing him, apparently put the fear of God into them.

Posted by: Peej at November 28, 2014 04:25 PM (/2UVF)

551 This must be some kind of record .552 in and still on topic .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at November 28, 2014 05:08 PM (HkkyM)

552 Well, the gentry libs never have to ride public transportation, so they don't "get it." Public transportation sucks. Taking the bus, train, or yes, even a street car sucks. You have to stand outside in the cold waiting, and it often takes for ever to get to where you are going. In addition, you have to carry all of your crap with you, so going shopping using public transportation is just awful. Libs don't use public trans, well, at least not the ones that are running things around here. They have money, drivers, and never have to be cold waiting in line for the buss in subzero temperatures. Its a dreadful experience.

Posted by: Mistress Not Done yet at November 28, 2014 05:14 PM (2/oBD)

553 We have several streetcar lines here in Toronto. The better ones run on medium density routes. The really heavy routes are hopeless. The streetcars are so slow you can walk faster, and local traffic grinds to a crawl. The only advantage is the lower operating costs vs buses. Capital costs are higher, speed of service is lower. Capacity is a bit higher, but at a slower speed. Dear god it's slow. Ask a Torontonian about the King Streecar. Some say it's real, but it's a fucking myth.

Posted by: Kenneth at November 28, 2014 05:17 PM (ytKvY)

554 MANY years ago I took a class in college where we did a feasibility study for the San Diego Trolly.  Basically told them that it was a black hole money sucking dipsquat  3 foot deep pool of an idea.  Upon reading the study they launched in head first.

Taught us a valuable lesson.  OK, taught me one.

Posted by: Leif at November 28, 2014 06:18 PM (+YBGJ)

555 Sydney has had a light rail system for a while. The current network works pretty well, because almost all of it is built on disused freight lines, so it has its own right-of-way for over 90% of its length. Now they've started work on an extension that goes right up George Street (the busiest street in the CBD) which they're planning to turn into a pedestrian mall for more than half a mile. Which is just going to fuck traffic sideways. The planners have actually given this some thought, and say that traffic on George Street is so bad already that closing it entirely will only improve matters, and I'm not entirely sure they're wrong.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at November 29, 2014 02:04 AM (2yngH)

556 And they did rip out that useless monorail, so I'll give them that.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at November 29, 2014 02:04 AM (2yngH)

557 In my town, Coral Gables, we have a fleet of mini-busses (trolleys) that run up and down the main drag.  Frequent and free to ride.  Very successful.  A wise investment.

Posted by: Bobby Ahr at November 29, 2014 03:22 AM (zmZ2x)

558 Umm, sorry to say this but Shelia Jackson Lee is actually right about one thing: Houston desperately needs a light rail system. Unfortunately, as always, the pathetic excuse Liberals have bequeathed upon Houstonians is a joke. And Her Nibs' ideas for extensions are farcical. Instead of focusing upon the disgraceful Third-World streets of Houston, Her Nibs has spent her time forcing uni-sex bathrooms upon an unwilling electorate like a a Gay Gang Rape. She has aspirations to work for Obama and is perfect.

Posted by: SCIPIO AFRICANUS at November 29, 2014 03:38 PM (i5wUE)

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