October 29, 2009

Four Arraigned in Riverside Gang-Rape
— Ace

This story says they're charged, but a later story say they were arraigned today.

Three minors — 15, 16 and 17 — are each charged with felony rape with a foreign object. The charges all carry an enhancement that they acted in concert, which could make them eligible for life in prison if found true, Deputy District Attorney Dara Cashman said.

The 16-year-old also has been charged with robbery. Cashman charged a fourth suspect, 19-year-old Manuel Ortega, with robbery, assault causing great bodily injury, rape in concert and an enhancement that also makes him eligible for life in prison.

The youths were charged as adults "because this crime speaks to a high degree of callousness and viciousness," said Contra Costa Deputy District Attorney Dan Cabral, head of the office's juvenile division

Cashman and Richmond police detectives said Wednesday that they expect to make more arrests in the case. A fifth suspect arrested Tuesday night, 21-year-old Salvador Rodriguez, remains in custody but has not been charged.

Here's a dumb opinion piece by, I guess, a local columnist:

They laughed. They snapped pictures. For two hours, they took turns beating and raping a drunk, defenseless girl. Fine Saturday night fun.

The details of the brutal gang rape outside the Richmond High School homecoming dance last weekend chill my soul. The 15-year-old was lured to a "party" by a "friend" only to find out she was to be the evening's entertainment. Dozens of people wandered by and thought it was funny.

I wonder what sort of twisted young people would get their kicks out of participating in such an attack. I wonder what kind of callous young people would stand by and watch, or see what was going on and hurry away, but never try to stop it or even call police. Surely they must have precious women in their lives. Mothers, sisters, grandmothers. Yet no one cared what happened to the victim, who had to be airlifted to a hospital in critical condition. How could young people be so cruel and inhuman?

One of the young women who called the cops as soon as they heard about the attack tried to offer an explanation: "They think it's cool," she told our reporter. "They weren't raised to respect girls."

They weren't raised to respect girls.

Is that it?


We do not, as a society, respect girls. We teach them from birth that sexy is cute, sexy is beautiful, sexy is the way to get attention. From baby shirts that say "Hot Chick" to preschool dance classes where little girls learn to bump and grind, there's no escaping it. By the time they're in middle school, girls know that sexy gets more attention from boys than brainy or athletic or tough.

And it goes on like that, eventually mentioning video games or something.

Look, I understand women's horror at this. I happen to share it. But, just to be accurate about this, one is underinclusive when one says these thugs did not "respect women."

They did not respect humans, period. They are animals lacking the most basic empathetic spark that typically restrains human beings from beating or raping each other brutally -- the empathy that makes such monstrous behavior difficult to even contemplate, let alone perform.

For two hours.

In front of an apparently entertained crowd.

On Twitter, Greg Pollowitz says "Death penalty for all of them, including the spectators." I agree. And I know there's no law to get to such just punishment, but then, as they say, no jury in the world would convict you.

The problem isn't that we're raising boys who don't respect girls. Or, rather, that is a problem too, but not really the problem here. Yes, they targeted her because, as a girl, she had what they wanted. But it's hard to imagine that a vulnerable, lone man who had something they wanted -- including simple humanity that they could shatter for their jollies (stuff like this is, as they say, also about dominance and pure cruelty rather than sex alone) -- would get better treatment from these vermin.

"Respecting women" is a lesson they need to learn. But that's kind of nuance they could only appreciate after a long lesson in Why it's a bad thing to prey upon human beings as if you're brutish jackals.

Actually, the hell with learning. Kill them in prison. And yeah, rape them in prison. With my blessing.

We have monsters in our society and no one much seems to care.

One local article notes that "interest in the case in cyberspace" is high.

In cyberspace? Um, why not in the leftwing media? Is this story somehow not interesting enough?

We know why. It's not that this story doesn't have national policy implications. The trouble for the leftwing media is that it obviously, incandescently does have national policy implications about which they wish to keep silent. As it's impolite.

Well, the crime rate among blacks and Latinos is viciously high. Lives are shattered, and snuffed out, every day because of this.

Can we perhaps get over our political correctness and treat this as a problem, maybe?

I don't know if spotlighting the problem would help. As I mentioned in my previous post*, the Kitty Genovese murder shocked the country out of complacency about crime, and cowardice in the face of crime.

But for that to happen, people have to know about it.


* Which I put into draft because some idiot decided it was the perfect time to let loose a torrent of racial animus. I would appreciate if this does not happen again.

Posted by: Ace at 01:09 PM | Comments (266)
Post contains 943 words, total size 6 kb.

1 Might want to correct that title.....it's Richmond, not Riverside

Posted by: vastrightwingconspirator at October 29, 2009 01:15 PM (7FgWm)

2 Liberalism, which controls much of our society today and many of our major cities completely, hates women. This is why women are treated so poorly in an otherwise 'civilized' society.

Liberalism is the enemy of women.
Examples:
Treatment of Ted Kennedy over his victim
Treatment of Bill Clinton over his victim
Treatment of David Letterman over his employees
Treatment of Polansky over his victims
Treatment of Sarah Palin in general
Treatment of Bristol Palin
Treatment of John Edwards over his wife
Treatment of Keith Olbermann over Michelle Malkin
Treatment of Carrie Prejan
Treatment of Jessica Simpson by Liberal MSM and sportswriters - somehow any problems the entire Cowboys team had can be traced to her.
Liberal Representative Alan Grayson calls Linda Robinson a whore
Treatment of Kennedy over Marilyn Monroe
Anyone here want to add more to the list? I think we see the pattern though.

Posted by: Def Leppard at October 29, 2009 01:15 PM (hIOnV)

3 No one wants to address the root of the problem, which is the family or lack thereof.

Posted by: Concious, but wandering aimlessly at October 29, 2009 01:15 PM (kn+jW)

4 What a horrible story.

Posted by: Uniball at October 29, 2009 01:16 PM (27iEn)

5

This country has no law enforcement problem that cannot be addressed by a correct dosage of Buford Pusser whoopass stick.  Especially these punks and those like them.

My bet would be that they will be meeting some foreign objects very, very soon anyway.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at October 29, 2009 01:17 PM (B+qrE)

6 OT: CBO says House bill will cost over a trillion bucks: http://tinyurl.com/ygl3obo

Posted by: ECM at October 29, 2009 01:18 PM (q3V+C)

7 the time of purification is at hand

Posted by: the angel of death in a funny hat at October 29, 2009 01:18 PM (PD1tk)

8 The terrorists at Gitmo should consider staying there, where it's safe.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 29, 2009 01:18 PM (TZazt)

9 These little boys and girls are the recruits for Obama's army of volunteers...open your doors to this, like some poor soul did to a fake obama census taker.....they are just waiting to get in line for their obama money, car, house, healthcare.......go galt.....the lines will lengthen, and they will be angry, hostile and without shame.

Posted by: non_dhimmie at October 29, 2009 01:20 PM (cFwGO)

10 The problem isn't that we're raising boys who don't respect girls. Or, rather, that is a problem too, but not really the problem here. Yes, they targeted her because, as a girl, she had what they wanted. But it's hard to imagine that a vulnerable, loan man who had something they wanted -- including simple humanity that they could shatter for their jollies (stuff like this is, as they say, also about dominance and pure cruelty rather than sex alone) -- would get better treatment from these vermin.

I disagree a little.  I do think that women/girls are more likely targets for sexual assaults in part because of society's conflicted messages about women and sex/sexuality.  It is more likely that a girl who is gang raped will have to fend off insinuations and accusations that she asked for it than a boy would. 

There is something basic at our core as a society that resists treating people as people, regardless of their gender or sexual preferences. 

That cuts many ways, of course, but in the context of a girl getting gang raped the net effect is that there is not as much consistent outrage as it deserves. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:21 PM (sey23)

11 I don't completely agree with you Ace, when you say they don't respect humans. They have an extremely high regard for themselves. It's other humans they don't respect, except to the extent that those others can satisfy their needs (i.e., give them something, voluntarily or involuntarily). This is the logical conclusion of the '60s mantra of "If it feels good, do it."

Posted by: Ted K. at October 29, 2009 01:22 PM (Ie2IY)

12 JFC, how the eff do you mess up loan vs lone?

Way beyond the pale of what we have acceded to accept.

Posted by: Brennan at October 29, 2009 01:22 PM (9kAmX)

13 The problem is that we have monsters in our society and no one much seems to care.>>>

Hey, those four boys represent four votes...no way the left wants to lose that.

Posted by: joeindc44 at October 29, 2009 01:23 PM (QxSug)

14 "Death penalty for all of them, including the spectators." I agree. And I know there's no law to get to such just punishment, but then, as they say, no jury in the world would convict you.

Not only is there no such law, thanks to me you are forbidden to ever enact one.

You're welcome.

Posted by: His Royal Majesty...Anthony M. Kennedy at October 29, 2009 01:24 PM (ur6Ar)

15 And can I add another thing?  I really hate that we're in a place right now in this country where we are counting on the savagery of the prisoner population to inflict rape and harm on fellow prisoners to mete out punishment.  It sickens me. 

Rape should be considered torture.  Unless the person at the receiving end is UBL or his pals, I don't see where it has a place in our society. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:24 PM (sey23)

16 the rest of the punks will all be described as "Nice boys. Helped old ladies crossed the street and carried their groceries in. Never belonged to a gang, and never used profanity - they kissed their Mamas with that mouth, you know?". Sometimes I don't feel so bad about prison rape. I hope each and every one of these scumbags gets a taste of what they did to that poor girl. Won't make things right, but a righteous spin on the karma wheel.

Posted by: Frank G at October 29, 2009 01:24 PM (I+To0)

17

Um, actually, can any one find a story of a group of teens attacking and raping a man or boy, to the amusement of the crowd and taping it to post on YouTube...

I actually do think the sex of the victim was important.  Call me crazy if you want, but, being a girl, I have definitely been the target of actions that no self-respecting guy would perpetrate on another guy outside the context of a gay bar or pride parade.  And I was just in a public setting.  She was victimized, not because she "had something they wanted."  Seriously, do you think some guy wearing a Rolex or driving a nice car would have gotten the same treatment?

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 01:25 PM (GF971)

18
>>The problem is that we have monsters in our society and no one much seems to care.

Islam society too. Why do you think they separate Boys from Girls? Boys gotta have it and they get frustrated to the point of dying for 72 virgins. They are controlled with the hope of PussyKitteh.

The Death penalty is called for in this Richmond case.

Posted by: sickinmass at October 29, 2009 01:26 PM (rYWEB)

19 The problem is that we have monsters in our society and no one much seems to care.

Some don't care and others are willing to blame external factors rather than the monsters themselves. I had to take a prison-industrial complex seminar for college and pretty much everyone in class agreed that everyone who's ever been jailed was put there because of "the Man." They commit crimes because they're poor and/or society is racist/sexist/etc. Not because they're heartless sociopaths.

And, as evidenced in the CA judicial system, criminals get more rights than the victims and families of victims. See Tookie Williams or OJ Simspon.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:26 PM (GZnia)

20 how the eff do you mess up loan vs lone?

I have to say that although I rarely misspell words when I write for work, or even when I write a letter, I find that I also tend to make spelling errors of the lone/loan (their/there, where/wear) variety on blogs.  I think it's something to do with the "conversational" tone of this type of writing. 

Just my theory. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:27 PM (sey23)

21 Golly...I wonder if they passed the initiation into MS-13?

I know, I know...how racist of me.

They should be impaled.

Posted by: Chainsaw Chimp at October 29, 2009 01:27 PM (4uxzF)

22 Rape today the ovens tomorrow. We are raising a whole generation just like thsese and you are correct, it is not just women it is any living thing, including animals. This generation will gladly solve many of their socail and eldercare problems just like the Nazis did. I work with many of them daily and it is truly frightening. 

Posted by: TM at October 29, 2009 01:27 PM (NFj8b)

23 Well, thank goodness two of the perps can't be charged with an hate crime as they are Hispanic.  Unbelievable.  Up to 10 suspects.  2 hours.  They took pictures.  These people are animals. 

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 01:28 PM (qP2BK)

24

They did not respect humans, period. They are animals lacking the most basic empathetic spark

Ayup.  Empathy, the hallmark of normal people.

And.  Never forget:  There are two types of empathy.  1) generalized empathy:  the kind that acts like the rubber bumpers that keeps us from simply being obnoxious and running over each other or, say, raping someone (those who have a sense of empathy), and, 2) those who use empathy merely as a tool (the generalized sense of empathy-rubber-bumpers is missing).

Now you know how to solve the empathy problem when you see the out of control narcissist operate with obvious empathy. 

Posted by: Motionlock at October 29, 2009 01:28 PM (piBto)

25

Where's Daddy of girl?  He should be in cuffs for the revenge murder of 5 or 6 douchebags.

Only then will shit like this stop. 

Posted by: Pelvis at October 29, 2009 01:28 PM (LlaBi)

26 Some monsters should not be suffered to live.  Too bad they're protected from a lynching (fyi, I've no idea what race they are, and frankly don't care) by the civilization they've set themselves against.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at October 29, 2009 01:29 PM (pZEar)

27 And didn't the onlookers provide a screen to act behind?  Charge them all, Fuckers.

Posted by: Pelvis at October 29, 2009 01:29 PM (LlaBi)

28

I guess the next story we will hear (at least for the minority perps) that they grew up in impoverished fatherless homes without anyone who loved them, blah, blah, blah.  Well, boo freaking hoo.

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 01:29 PM (qP2BK)

29 @22
We are raising a whole generation just like thsese and you are correct, it is not just women it is any living thing, including animals.

See: Vick, Michael

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:29 PM (sey23)

30 Thanks for fixing the "loan" vs "lone" thingy.  I can go rub one out now, thinking constantly about how the original mistake has not been acknowledged.  It's what I live ofr!

(sracesm off, and obviously so)

-Brennan

Posted by: Brennan at October 29, 2009 01:30 PM (9kAmX)

31 I know this is OT but did anyone see South Park last night? i was in tears at the end of the episode, it was that funny

Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 01:31 PM (bftbi)

32 Get ready for the lawyers of these scumbags (apologies to all scum)
to tout, "It's because these boys are impoverished and victims of society that they did this horrible thing. And the ho was asking for it." Ok, they'll say that last part nicer, but it'll be there.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:31 PM (GZnia)

33 If convicted, all should be castrated and spend the rest of their lives being some criminal thug's bitch in prison.

Posted by: paranoid polly at October 29, 2009 01:32 PM (r7Vc3)

34 Seriously. When do we start the killing?

Posted by: Thesher at October 29, 2009 01:32 PM (DG56/)

35   17

Um, actually, can any one find a story of a group of teens attacking and raping a man or boy, to the amusement of the crowd and taping it to post on YouTube...


Wasn't posted on YouTube, as far as I know, but the couple Ace posted about yesterday were both raped and tortured by youths. One victim was a guy.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 29, 2009 01:32 PM (TZazt)

36 Dammit, runningrn! Are you in my head?

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:33 PM (GZnia)

37

Spank,

I didn't see that.  Link, please?  And, did  the crowd watch with approval?

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 01:33 PM (GF971)

38 One victim was a guy.

Was he a known or suspected homosexual? 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:34 PM (sey23)

39 We know why.

Yes, because they are minorities and possibly illegal immigrants.

Posted by: Jay at October 29, 2009 01:35 PM (ZxE4n)

40 shoot every last one of them in the neck. including the animals that stood around cheering and watching.

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Bacons, and the Odd Meteor at October 29, 2009 01:35 PM (erIg9)

41

Dear Diary,

Note to self..........  Must remember to appoint Salvador Rodriguez as my new gender equality Tsar.

Til next time Dear Diary,

Barry

 

OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012'

(the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice)

-It's never too early to campaign-

Posted by: Barry Soetoro (D-King OF The World!) at October 29, 2009 01:35 PM (wplTJ)

42 I don't think Ace is reading any comments today cuz he's not making any corrections. And the italics button sucks.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 29, 2009 01:35 PM (TZazt)

43 I'm surprised that Knoxville case has gotten so little coverage. Michelle Malkin was on it like white on rice. Y'all can go to her site for all the background on it. It's just as horrific as this one. And it won't be classified as a hate crime because the perpetrators were black and victims were white.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:35 PM (GZnia)

44 Ace: "The problem is that we have monsters in our society and no one much seems to care."

And this is why we like Dirty Harry. In the circles where PC is trafficked so readily and, ironically, callously, most make the unjustifiable trade-off of personal security over sacrifice. When one strays and actually does sacrifice by rejecting PC behavior and intervening, most privately cheer but still remain publicly silent. That's the paradigm we need to mercilessly kill along with those who would partake in such barbaric assaults.

Mob behavior remains a scourge and an unavoidable condition of society. However, we do have the intellect to overcome the innate if we have the courage to both recognize/understand the "flaw" and train ourselves to confront it.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 29, 2009 01:36 PM (C3uAX)

45

Now you know how to solve the empathy problem when you see the out of control narcissist operate with obvious empathy. 

I feel like I need to elaborate, since that example is so lame.  Some have an incredible sense of empathy.  And they use it to preach, to play poker, sell a stock, or to persuade a crowd and win an election--they use it as a tool or a means to gain an end.  If there is no end to be secured, there is no empathy.  Why waste the effort?

Those with a normal sense of empathy have it on all the time.  All.  The.  Time.  Not simply when they need to use it to improve their position.

Posted by: Motionlock at October 29, 2009 01:36 PM (piBto)

46 -- including simple humanity that they could shatter for their jollies

Yeah, it would suck to be that guy, wouldn't it?..oh, well, life sucks. I think we should all have fun hanging separately, since we do not appear to be able to hang together.

Posted by: Count of Monte Cristo at October 29, 2009 01:37 PM (cE6Nr)

47 California can't fall into the sea fast enough.  A good starting point may be to nuke Richmond, CA.

Posted by: joeindc44 at October 29, 2009 01:38 PM (QxSug)

48 38 One victim was a guy.

Was he a known or suspected homosexual?

He was raped and killed with his girlfriend, so I'm assuming he was straight. Were you trying to be funny?

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 29, 2009 01:38 PM (TZazt)

49

I'm surprised that Knoxville case has gotten so little coverage. Michelle Malkin was on it like white on rice. Y'all can go to her site for all the background on it. It's just as horrific as this one. And it won't be classified as a hate crime because the perpetrators were black and victims were white.

Yup, already happened.  Wasn't prosecuted as an hate crime.  Yet Matthew Shepherd's death was an hate crime even though the dude who killed him was bisexual.  Go figure.

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 01:38 PM (qP2BK)

50 Damnit, Ace. While I'm typing, you append to say what I was going to post.

Get out of my mindthoughts!

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 29, 2009 01:38 PM (C3uAX)

51 I'm surprised that Knoxville case has gotten so little coverage.

I should amend that to coverage on the blogs. I know why it's not being covered in the news.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:39 PM (GZnia)

52

One victim was a guy.

Was he a known or suspected homosexual? 

 

know the attacker carjacked a boyfriend and girl friend

they raped them both. They cut off the boys penis and anally raped him, then i believe shot him and set him on fire and left him near railroad tracks.

they raped the girl in every conceivable way. poured bleach down her throat to destroy the evidence then killed her too.

that is from my memory, there were more gruesome details.

one of the most disgusting parts was, apparently the main rapist murderer told the girl if she had sex with them they would let her go.  So the defense tried to claim that it wasn't rape based on that.

its fucked up(sorry ace, the f word is deserved here)

I would look it up and read about it. It makes me feel bad about being a human being.

Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 01:39 PM (bftbi)

53 #15- I agree with you to a certain extent. We should not have to count on prison rape to enact the full amount of punishment that these guys deserve. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only part of prison that is still punishment. There are guys that come out of prison with Master's Degrees on our dime.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would love to see every prison have a 23 hour lockdown every day, with one hour a day to get some fresh air and take your weekly shower. Stop with all of the rehabilitation crap and mete out some real punishment. Until then, I hope Bubba makes each and every one of them his wife.

Posted by: Shivv at October 29, 2009 01:39 PM (00mcl)

54 I am so f'n sick of thug culture.

As for Ace's point, I agree with him that their lack of human empathy is the root of the problem, and applies equally to all genders.  These same people who did nothing about this girl getting tormented would have also been entertained watching their friends beat a guy to death.

But, I think his phrasing wasn't very clear; there definitely is a gender problem in society, particularly in the low class, where the boundary between romantic pursuit and intimidating behavior has become very blurry.  That's not what happened here, though.

Posted by: sandy burger at October 29, 2009 01:40 PM (VC56G)

55 We need Boondock Saints in every city in America. Connor: Now you will receive us. Murphy: We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. Connor: We do not want your tired and sick. Murphy: It is your corrupt we claim. Connor: It is your evil that will be sought by us. Murphy: With every breath, we shall hunt them down. Connor: Each day we will spill their blood, 'til it rains down from the skies. Murphy: Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. Connor: These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior, and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost. Murphy: There are varying degrees of evil. We urge you lesser forms of filth, not to push the bounds and cross over, in to true corruption, into our domain. Connor: For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it. Murphy: And we will send you to whatever god you wish.

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 01:41 PM (ObTcs)

56

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 06:33 PM (GZnia)

Ha! Ha!  I can read your mind-thoughts--I'm applying for that new Mind-Thoughts Czar position that's opening up in the Bamster's administration.  You know, if you can't beat them, join them!

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 01:41 PM (qP2BK)

57 The sex of the victim was important. She was a girl, and they wanted to rape her, so they did. My point is that is not as if they would treat a man better. Would they rape him? No, probably not (but who knows). This isn't about a failure to respect women, it's about verminous predators who prey on human being generally. In this case, they wanted to rape. You think apart from rape they were good citizens?

Posted by: ace at October 29, 2009 01:41 PM (mT0zX)

58 Shivv, I'm all for bringing back 6x6 cells and feeding them moldy bread and dirty water. And your toilet is a small pile of hay.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:42 PM (GZnia)

59

Why isn't the media paying attention?

Because only one of the accused is white.

The rest open too many questions about what liberal parenting, liberal immigration laws, and liberals ignoring minority members who commit crimes produces.

Posted by: North Dallas Thirty at October 29, 2009 01:43 PM (TizM+)

60 He was raped and killed with his girlfriend, so I'm assuming he was straight. Were you trying to be funny?

No.  You didn't provide a link or any details so I didn't know what case you were referencing. 

I think rape that is committed as part of a murder is different than raping someone and leaving them alive.  To me the former is just part of the act of killing that person - robbing them of their dignity as part of robbing their humanity before you take away their life.  I imagine it's easier to dispose of someone, particularly a man, after you've subjected him to that sort of torture. 

Raping a girl with a crowd watching and in public suggests you have no concerns about being held accountable.  A part of that feeling may be that there is still an undercurrent of 'she asked for it' running in our society.  As I recall, I read some comments to that effect (or to the effect of 'how do we know it wasn't consensual?') here and elsewhere yesterday. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:43 PM (sey23)

61 Maybe I'm particularly gloomy today but this all looks like the fall of Rome to me. How can this country possibly recover from all this? Everything's fucked up.

Posted by: runninrebel at October 29, 2009 01:43 PM (i3PJU)

62 >>> I find that I also tend to make spelling errors of the lone/loan (their/there, where/wear) variety on blogs. I think it's something to do with the "conversational" tone of this type of writing. What it is is fast writing where my fingers are three second behind my brain. My "active brain" is three words ahead, writing the next several words. Words are dumped into the "passive brain" muscle memory type part of the brain, where stuff like loan and lone get confused.

Posted by: ace at October 29, 2009 01:43 PM (mT0zX)

63

Posted by: ace at October 29, 2009 06:41 PM (mT0zX)

Jeez, Ace, calm down.  It's not like it was rape rape, it was just rape.  Sheesh!

Posted by: Whoopie Goldberg, Criminal Justice Expert at October 29, 2009 01:43 PM (qP2BK)

64 Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would love to see every prison have a 23 hour lockdown every day, with one hour a day to get some fresh air and take your weekly shower. Stop with all of the rehabilitation crap and mete out some real punishment. Until then, I hope Bubba makes each and every one of them his wife.

I guess I am in the minority with you - I agree about the 23 hour lockdown too.
Also, if you rape ...automatic castration.

Posted by: paranoid polly at October 29, 2009 01:44 PM (r7Vc3)

65 Y-not:

I hear you.  I still occasionally find myself asking the inevitable "is it its or it is" question to confirm proper apostrophization (I plead proudly guilty to making that word up, according to the faux grammar experts Bill Gates hired) when writing missives on a daily basis.

I guess I was just stunned by the nature of the mistake.  I know Ace is a more than capable and, in fact, an exemplary writer, although he does make the occasional mistake, as we all do.  Were I under the pressure he is, I doubt I would produce as consistenly superior copy as he does.

I admit to being a stick-in-the-mud here.  But my point was made, methinks.

Furthermore, I think Ace counts coup on having overly anal grammarians (grammarists? grammarsmiths?  wordsworkers?) chime in.  Anything that boosts Ace's ego above its perennially low energy budget, I'm fully behind!

Cheers,
Brennan

Excelsior!
(In the channeling Stan Lee sense, not the wood chip sense.)

Posted by: Brennan at October 29, 2009 01:44 PM (9kAmX)

66

You think apart from rape they were good citizens?

Shit, you're not supposed to make me bust a gut in a serious thread.  Ha!

Posted by: Motionlock at October 29, 2009 01:44 PM (piBto)

67 "They did not respect humans, period. They are animals lacking the most basic empathetic spark that typically restrains human beings from beating or raping each other brutally -- " Yes, that's about it.

Posted by: mare at October 29, 2009 01:45 PM (X1fsj)

68

What it is is fast writing where my fingers are three second behind my brain. My "active brain" is three words ahead, writing the next several words. Words are dumped into the "passive brain" muscle memory type part of the brain, where stuff like loan and lone get confused.

All this while simultaneously chugging Value-Rite, skinning an hobo, and surfing busty lesbian pron.  And they say that men can't multi-task!  This just proves that Ace is an Unmortal.

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 01:45 PM (qP2BK)

69

I am so f'n sick of thug culture.

i agree, this is an inner city culture thing. not in all cases of inhumanity, but a lot of this crap is because of the glorification of murder, rape, and all around disgust for your fellow man

please don't read "inner city culture" as code language. I mean it bluntly as a lifestlye that is justified and glorified in urban areas. if some races are over represented so be it, but I think that it is more a mindset that can affect all people growing up in these areas. It's no coincidence that these crime ridden areas produce children prone to crime.

Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 01:46 PM (bftbi)

70 One more time:  Let's see:  Empathy is a state of being for normals.  It is a tool for jackoffs.

Posted by: Motionlock at October 29, 2009 01:46 PM (piBto)

71 Y-not, I was referencing a case Ace discussed yesterday. The link was there. Apparently he pulled the post after some comments got out of hand. Rape of a guy and rape of a girl may be different, I don't know. They're both horrible. But to a guy, getting raped by other guys may be worse than getting murdered.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 29, 2009 01:48 PM (TZazt)

72

This isn't about a failure to respect women, it's about verminous predators who prey on human being generally.

I don't know; it sounds like hate-crime to me.

Posted by: Idiot at October 29, 2009 01:49 PM (piBto)

73 I had emailed Ace a couple days ago.  I don't know if he was referencing that when he wrote the draft or not, but yeah I can see the opportunity for racial animus.  I was pretty angry when I wrote it.  To wit:

What is even more pathetic is the simpering response of the school principle:

Trujillo called the rape outside on school grounds "a tragic incident."

"We wished this had never happened. This was such a heinous crime," Trujillo said. "We are all going to learn from this."


Note the passive voice.  No thought of fault or blame.  Nobody did anything evil, it just happened.  Like a storm or earthquake.  Learn from this?  LEARN?  What is there to learn you spineless twit?  The only thing to learn from rabid dogs is better marksmanship.


Who stole my country?


Posted by: oLD gUY at October 29, 2009 01:50 PM (P/D33)

74 This is why people cheer for The Dark Knight.  Why the audience applauded when Batman dropped that mobster off the ledge and broke his ankles.

Deep down we know that "justice" is rarely served in these cases.

Posted by: The Marker Duo at October 29, 2009 01:50 PM (cxW4X)

75 They're not animals.

Animals do things for reasons which, by and large, help their species survive.

These are anomalies.

-

Posted by: BumperStickerist at October 29, 2009 01:50 PM (ruzrP)

76 All this talk of "we're breeding a generation of barbarians!" makes me shake my head. Human beings are unlovely creatures; this has always been the case, right from the very first. This kind of thing has happened in every society and every epoch -- it's not unique to us.

It was a barbaric act, to be sure. And now the 15 and 16 year old perps will have a lifetime of thinking about their crime ahead of them while sitting in stir. But are these boys really products of a decadent society, a debased culture that generates monsters rather than citizens? I don't think so. We do our best to civilize the more barbaric aspects of our personalities away, but come right down to it, we are primates and have the characteristics of primates. We are excitable, quick to anger, given to dominance heirarchies, desirous of group approval, and easily led by stronger peers. These tendencies lead us into many terrible and evil acts.

I guess what I'm saying is: I don't draw any cosmic lesson from this terrible crime. It happens. It will happen again, many times and in many places. If it is to serve as a lesson, the lesson should be that we need to work all the harder at civilization because the veneer has worn very thin indeed in some places.

Posted by: Monty at October 29, 2009 01:51 PM (nTxjg)

77 #64  Also, if you rape ...automatic castration.

And not chemically.  I'd be all for castration with a rusty battle ax.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at October 29, 2009 01:51 PM (otlXg)

78 a lifestlye that is justified and glorified in urban areas. if some races are over represented so be it, but I think that it is more a mindset that can affect all people growing up in these areas. It's no coincidence that these crime ridden areas produce children prone to crime.

Where did that come from? I'm asking seriously. When did "thug life" and all that bullshit promoted in rap and hip hop become the "in" thing? I went to a mostly Hispanic/black high school and I'd say 90% of the student body dressed like thugs/cholos/gangbangers even if they weren't in gangs. (Although most of them probably were.) When did this start? Why has it increased? And are people not willing to stop such barbaric actions because they don't want to be viewed as "racist"? Is this a consequence of PC culture and multiculturalism and moral relativism?

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:52 PM (GZnia)

79

Wow, ace, way to take a comment out of context. 

My point was clearly not that they were model citizens.  Jerk.

My point was that it was more socially acceptable to victimize the poor girl because people watched and didn't do anything (hence, the "social" aspect of "socially acceptable").  Had it been a boy with "something they wanted" like money, they wouldn't have had people watching and applauding and taping it to post to YouTube for _two_freaking_hours_.  Since we don't have a crime like that on record (the Knoxville tragedy was not publicly applauded or condoned), it's likely that the nature of the boy-on-girl rape was considered "okay" by the bystanders (not to mention the perps, who I would happily see burn in this world and the next).

See Def Leppard's post about women being treated by the left.  Disrespect for women is pretty rampant, so you would totally discount that as a factor in this case?  Misogynist prick.

(see?  I can take things out of context, too!)

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 01:52 PM (GF971)

80 74 This is why people cheer for The Dark Knight. Why the audience applauded when Batman dropped that mobster off the ledge and broke his ankles. Deep down we know that "justice" is rarely served in these cases. Posted by: The Marker Duo at October 29, 2009 06:50 PM Exactly. It's also why Boondock Saints and now Law Abiding Citizen are two of my all time favorite movies as well.

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 01:52 PM (ObTcs)

81

64  Also, if you rape ...automatic castration.

And not chemically.  I'd be all for castration with a rusty battle ax.

Or a plastic knife, like the kind you find at KFC

Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 01:54 PM (bftbi)

82 Pop culture also encourages this type of behavior, especially music. The things children know in this day-&-age is astonishing. They are also taught that respect for their fellow man 'isn't cool' & often feel that boundaries are arbitrary.  

Posted by: Miss'80sB at October 29, 2009 01:54 PM (ppFId)

83 Michael in MI,

And it's why Taken was such an awesome movie. They all fulfill our vigilante fantasies.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 01:55 PM (GZnia)

84 On the other hand, we could go all Heinlein on their asses.

Send these cretins off to a remote colony and make them coexist with beautiful, sexually adventerous women each of whom possesses high intelligence, a genetic anomally such as time-awareness or photo-memory, perky yabbos that quiver in anticipay ... shun, and firearms.

That'd learn 'em

Posted by: BumperStickerist at October 29, 2009 01:57 PM (ruzrP)

85

Human beings are unlovely creatures

Monty, guess what?  Sometimes you get a person who actually believed all that I'm Third bullshit and has hurt themselves by placing their fellow man ahead of themselves.  Not everyone is a self-interested douchebag. 

Problem is, for everyone who tries to put the other man second, there are ten million others who would try to use that for personal gain.  But it doesn't mean someone wasn't unlovely for some period of time.

Don't project jackassery upon everyone else, even though most might deserve it.

Posted by: Idiot at October 29, 2009 01:57 PM (piBto)

86

WTR

i think a decent amount of our moral decay came about in the 1960s.  Did events like this probably happen before then? I would think so, not in a same frequency, but they happened. I just think after the 1960s this stuff became more acceptable to society as a whole. People stopped being disgusted by disgusting things because they were told everything is relative.

This is behavior that I expect from Congo Militias, not america school kids.

Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 01:58 PM (bftbi)

87 83 Michael in MI, And it's why Taken was such an awesome movie. They all fulfill our vigilante fantasies. Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 06:55 PM Oh damn, you're right, I forgot about that one. I got SO into that movie when I saw it for the first time in July. When he left that guy hooked up to the machine and flipped the switch and left the room, I was going HELL.F'ING.YEAH.

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 01:58 PM (ObTcs)

88 I swear, each time I read more details of this story, it gets worse. I'm glad to hear the rapists will be charged as adults at least.

Posted by: Girl Thursday at October 29, 2009 01:58 PM (XzzCe)

89 @53

I'm all for the 23 hour lockdown.  Or work camps.  The notion that these a55holes have gyms and tv's and what not is horrendous. 

I am somewhat of an anomaly around here, I think, as I am actually opposed to capital punishment (although I would never hold a candle in a friggin' vigil for one of these dudes, nor would I vote against a candidate based on this one issue). 

My parents both worked for the federal prison system when I was a tot, then my dad continued to work as a juvenile probation officer and eventually as a social worker at a half-way house program for murders in a state prison system.  My mom, rest her soul, was a life-long conservative who first got active in politics by writing columns about prison reform.  (Dad was a Kennedy Democrat who switched when McGovern ran.)

I think those experiences, coupled with my natural optimism, shaped my views on capital punishment and how we deal with serious, violent criminals. 

I think that our society is capable of achieving great things.  I believe in the value of human life, even crappy human life.  I know some people can be rehabilitated, even with our imperfect system, and even those who cannot be rehabilitated teach those who work with them about human nature and even evil.  I prefer to confront evil and its root causes than to hide it away or eliminate the expressions of it without addressing the causes. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 01:58 PM (sey23)

90 Oh, I didn't provide enough info:  God first, the other man second; I'm third.

Posted by: Idiot at October 29, 2009 01:59 PM (piBto)

91

Patty Fisher lists a Mercury News (San Jose Mercury News) e-mail address.

The Mercury News has had leftists and race-apologists (or worse) as writers for at least 20 years.

They (the writers and their editors) are unable to form satisfactory logical arguments for their positions.  They simply silence their critics.  Note that the last two thirds of Fisher's article is an attempt to indict (American) society at large.

I'm waiting for a few more details on the attack, specifically the race of each person involved.  The citizenship of each attacker should also be made public.  I think we will see a truly ugly Truth appear, something the Left wants buried forever.

Posted by: Arbalest at October 29, 2009 01:59 PM (1Hz0q)

92

some idiot decided it was the perfect time to let loose a torrent of racial animus

Uh oh, killmore guppies looking for some hot troll action? 

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at October 29, 2009 01:59 PM (cniXs)

93

The laws of nature, supply and demand and simple justice suggest that these dudes are going to get split wide open early and often when they get to the joint.

Watch your cornholes, studs. Congrats on raping a defenseless girl. Hope it was worth it, coz you will be traded from one cell block to the other for the rest of your un-natural lives for little more than a packet of smokes. Did someone order a cock-meat sandwich???

Posted by: mike d at October 29, 2009 02:01 PM (GV9NL)

94 I disagree a little.  I do think that women/girls are more likely targets for sexual assaults in part because of society's conflicted messages about women and sex/sexuality.  It is more likely that a girl who is gang raped will have to fend off insinuations and accusations that she asked for it than a boy would.


I think this is right. Ace is correct that this particular crime was probably more about having no respect for humanity in general and these people (if they even deserve to be called that) were out to dehumanize someone- anyone- in order to get their jollies. But I also know, as a female (and a mother), that our society sends seriously strong messages to women, especially young girls, that the only way to get noticed/be cool is to dress and act "sexy"; and it's occurring at younger and younger ages.

For example, I was looking in a costume store this past week for a Halloween costume for my toddler and I was horrified at the costumes they had in there for girls. The sexy and scantily-clad nurse/pirate/belly dancer/fairy, etc were about all there was for girls around 10 and up. TEN!!! When I was 10, I painted my face green and was a scary witch, complete with hat and broom. There were no parts of my abdomen showing and the outfit covered my knees. No peep-hole cutouts in the chest region of my outfit either.

So, that's the message we're sending to our children now. It's degrading and objectifying to those girls and it degrades and objectifies them in the eyes of their male peers, making them easier targets for violence.

Posted by: Mandy P. at October 29, 2009 02:02 PM (MK6Kx)

95

Once upon a long time ago, I and another guy removed a girl from a party.  She was so drunk, she could not walk.  We took her away and put her face-down on a picnic table so if she ralphed (she did) it would go down.

I spent an hour - two hours - watching her until she stirred and could move again.  Then I took her home.  Loaned her my windbreaker, also.  This was all before midnight.

All I thought was that it was lucky that she was with me, a normal human, and not some animal.  But it was over twenty years ago.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at October 29, 2009 02:02 PM (TUWci)

96 People stopped being disgusted by disgusting things because they were told everything is relative. This is behavior that I expect from Congo Militias, not america school kids. Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 06:58 PM Exactly. There is no right and wrong anymore. Everything is relative. There are no morals. The Left has succeeded in demonizing religion, law enforcement and the military... three of the institutions which are usually seen as examples of moral good. Not anymore, though. Now, all morals are relative. There is no 'Ultimate Truth' or ultimate right or wrong. If someone feels it's okay, then it's okay. And if someone tells you what you are doing is wrong, then you just tell them that they are being judgmental.

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 02:03 PM (ObTcs)

97

Put 'em in the same room with the shitbirds from Knoxville and give a prize to the survivor.

(The prize is, you get executed last.)

Posted by: logprof at October 29, 2009 02:03 PM (I3Udb)

98 "respecting women?" This might be old fashioned, but I actually consider myself a gentlemen. I open doors for ladies and such. I also don't rape the shit out of them

Posted by: Tony B at October 29, 2009 02:03 PM (Qq2zp)

99

Castration with a wine opener, followed by anal penetration with a basball bat. F those scumbags I hope they all rot in hell and get their cute little virgin a holes raped repeatedly in prison

 

just my thoughts

Posted by: Todd ( the guy who believes in castration) at October 29, 2009 02:03 PM (LLOGQ)

100

Let the girl kill them. Call it therapy.

Posted by: Johnathan E. at October 29, 2009 02:05 PM (dQdrY)

101 I am not a bit surprised by this story. Ace, you are on track with your comments. I am an armed citizen and will defend what is left of this society when I am able.
At some point, I and many other older citizens, will be deceased, and then the animals can rule.
Until that time, animals BEWARE.

Posted by: NortonPete at October 29, 2009 02:05 PM (fVuwW)

102 It's a pity we can't send the whole lot the the salt mines.

Posted by: The Marker Duo at October 29, 2009 02:06 PM (cxW4X)

103 97- Excellent suggestion.

Posted by: Girl Thursday at October 29, 2009 02:06 PM (XzzCe)

104 It's degrading and objectifying to those girls and it degrades and objectifies them in the eyes of their male peers, making them easier targets for violence.

Thank the feminists for that. Not the ones back in the 60s who were fighting for equality, but the kind today who stood behind OJ because he was black and his wife was white and the ones who are continually silent over the treatment of women in the Muslim world.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:08 PM (GZnia)

105 43. wherestherum - Michelle Malkin was on it like white on rice

White on rice?  Michelle Malkin is asian and married to a white guy.

RAAAAACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: fozzy at October 29, 2009 02:08 PM (ccEuN)

106

Maybe I'm particularly gloomy today but this all looks like the fall of Rome to me. How can this country possibly recover from all this?

It looks like it to me too.  But hey!  Nancy Pututi unveiled the house healthcare bill today!  Isn't that wonderful? 

/s  *gak*

Posted by: Iamnotanalcoholic at October 29, 2009 02:08 PM (lUbPs)

107 Maybe I'm particularly gloomy today but this all looks like the fall of Rome to me.

Me, too.  Time to open another beer and find a funnier thread, I guess. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 29, 2009 02:10 PM (sey23)

108 The hispanic machetti wielding culture has added so much to our diversity.

Posted by: non_dhimmie at October 29, 2009 02:10 PM (cFwGO)

109 Maybe we can have Survivor: Convict edition. You get a butter knife and a canteen of water. Then you have to survive with 10 other convicts. The prize is...you get to die last.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:11 PM (GZnia)

110 The disturbing part is that, with that many teenage onlookers, I guarantee you someone was taping it or snapping pics with their cell phone.

It's only a matter of time before they start to leak or pop-up.

Posted by: Techie at October 29, 2009 02:13 PM (cxW4X)

111 Also, I think all who recorded or took pictures of this should at least be in jail and labeled as sex offenders/child pornographers.

Posted by: d at October 29, 2009 02:13 PM (uTknY)

112 @Ace,

The Kitty Genovese may have shocked the country out of complacency about crime, but nobody did anything about it until Mayor Giuliani in NYC in the 1990s!

Posted by: NJconservative at October 29, 2009 02:14 PM (/Ywwg)

113 I also concur with Ace,  these things are not human they are animals and respect noone.  The only reason they target girls is because she is not as strong as them and they wanted to have sex.  At some point in our society we have forgotten that who their families are and what has been done to them do not matter,  only their crime and the victim matter.  I am sure we will hear the sob stories about their sorry life from the media and be made to feel bad about wanting them to be subjected to the same treatment as their victim,  but I won't. 

Posted by: chris at October 29, 2009 02:14 PM (/pHM6)

114 104 It's degrading and objectifying to those girls and it degrades and objectifies them in the eyes of their male peers, making them easier targets for violence.

Thank the feminists for that. Not the ones back in the 60s who were fighting for equality, but the kind today who stood behind OJ because he was black and his wife was white and the ones who are continually silent over the treatment of women in the Muslim world.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 07:08 PM (GZnia)


Oh, I do. Believe me. The radical feminists and the leftists have pushed the whole "if it feels good, do it" crap for at least 30 years or so and it's a good deal of what's led to this kind of objectification of young women, in my opinion. Couple that with at least one generation of parents that's too busy "doing their thing" to pay attention to what their little darlings are wearing, watching, and listening to and it's not hard to see how we got to this point.

Posted by: Mandy P. at October 29, 2009 02:15 PM (MK6Kx)

115 77- Castration? No, I think involuntary sterilization of women is a better option.

Posted by: John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar at October 29, 2009 02:17 PM (XzzCe)

116 As our old friend "slide of civilization" likes to say: whheeeeeeeeeeeee

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this, honestly.  And actually I don't think any of you are.  The traditional responses and mores of society have been utterly raped themselves by the ridiculous notions made MANDATORY by the mindless fuckweasels who have insinuated themselves into our schools, churches, government, social service organizations: everywhere.  An eagle scout preparing for West Point is thrown out of school for having a little knife in his car, despite his felicity with the M-16.  A bill just passed that makes "mindcrime" an extenuating factor in any crime you commit.  THEY ARE TRYING TO TAX THE FUCKING AIR, PEOPLE.  Gang rape is just a symptom of the institutional breakdowns we see all around us.

At least Rome had legalized hookers. We're completely through the looking glass, and have been for a long time.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:17 PM (qWLc4)

117 Not the ones back in the 60s who were fighting for equality, but the kind today who stood behind OJ because he was black and his wife was white and the ones who are continually silent over the treatment of women in the Muslim world.

And the ones who think having sex with everyone interested is "empowering" instead of just plain sad.  They do not have the best interests of women and girls in mind. 

Posted by: HeatherRadish at October 29, 2009 02:18 PM (OkT2m)

118

@Ace,

The Kitty Genovese may have shocked the country out of complacency about crime, but nobody did anything about it until Mayor Giuliani in NYC in the 1990s!

don't forget Bernie Goetz

Posted by: Ben at October 29, 2009 02:19 PM (bftbi)

119 @93 I say we take up a collection to make sure the rest of the inmate population is well supplied with smokes. Weekly care packages to you know, insure they take good care of these subhumans

Posted by: d at October 29, 2009 02:20 PM (uTknY)

120 The radical feminists and the leftists have pushed the whole "if it feels good, do it" crap for at least 30 years or so and it's a good deal of what's led to this kind of objectification of young women, in my opinion.

Men have objectified women since the beginning of time.  If you knew what we are actually thinking you would never stop hitting us.  We are hardwired to notice a tight ass and sweet rack.  That is very different from raping them.  At least it used to be.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:20 PM (qWLc4)

121

Mandy,

I'm totally with you.  I taught at a dance studio for a year.  The "costumes" they put the five and six year olds (and, of course, older), made me cringe.  They were belly-baring, boy-shorts sequin numbers with fringe.  My contingent were the Irish dancers, so they, at least, were pretty well covered.  But the sexualization of those babies made me want to cry.  When moms start teaching their girls to respect themselves, I'm praying the culture will follow. 

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:20 PM (GF971)

122

I think yes and no on the don't respect women charge.  I definitely think the perps don't value any human life (or any life for that matter) beyond their own, but I think that women are especially not valued by them.  Here's my reasoning:

Exactly what the article said: we have taught our young women that "sexy" is where it's at.  And it is a very hypersexualized, emotionless sexy (I'd say pretty much a pornographic definition of "sexy") -- while I don't really have an issue with adults viewing adults in a pornographic way, I do find it rather disturbing that this rather pornograph-itization has leaked into everyday society and culture and is aimed at younger and younger children, and that especially girls feel the need to make themselves in that image in order to be considered popular and well liked.  Likewise it is very disturbing that we have given young men such an emotionally blighted and shallow vision of what relationships (and being manly within that context) are all about.

On top of all this, I think we are starting to see the end result of all the very diligent work the feminists have done, with their "take back the night" and "date rape, just say no" campaigning, to our young people's perceptions of what is appropriate and even safe behavior between people of the opposite sex.  I'm no prude and don't think that it's even pragmatic to expect young women to stay virgins until their late 20s and marry and that's it (women have physical urges too -- they also are physically weaker than men usually and are the ones who have babies, and that shouldn't have been overlooked), but it was ridiculous to teach young women that they could "hang with the guys" (often under the influence of alcohol) and be in a completely safe environment -- that isn't how it works; it never has and it never will.  All this did was to create more situations where young women were not expected to act responsible towards themselves, and in which campus and town board feminists would hyperventilate over (I remember at the college one young woman claiming to have been "raped" by a group of young men who were guilty of ogling her -- in fairness she was wearing a miniskirt, and I don't know of many men in their early 20s who won't look, and that hardly was a case of rape.  This in turn completely devalued the true meaning of the term "rape" (getting ogled or wolf whistled at should never, ever have been term "rape" which some feminists encouraged young women to do, while encouraging them to dress and act in any very sexualized manner -- make no mistake, Girls Gone Wild is every bit as much a feminist production as it is driven by testosterone demand..."any woman can" after all).  It also bred a rather distressing amount of resentment among young men -- who now will argue that "she was really wanting to link up with all of us; she's a whore you know, not innocent at all, but you know how girls are -- they like it when it's happening and then they cry "rape" the next day because they don't want people to call them sluts).

We've come a long way baby, huh?

I think this is at the core of situations like this, and I'm afraid that we will see more, not less of this in the years to come.

Posted by: unknown jane at October 29, 2009 02:21 PM (5/yRG)

123 Maybe I'm particularly gloomy today but this all looks like the fall of Rome to me

I don't know; I remember the same feeling of the Apocalypse back in the late '70's during the rash of serial killers: Son of Sam, the Night Stalker, Bundy, Wayne Williams, Gacy. Carter was president, the hostages were still in captivity, unemployment was sky-high, inflation, disco, drugs...it was a very weird time. A lot of cults sprang up around then, too: Hare Krishnas, the EST people, Moonies, that Jonestown Unification Church disaster, and so on.

I can even recall it now, and I was only 10 or 11 at the time. A lot of survivalists bought land in Wyoming back then and decamped for the mountains to wait out the coming upheaval -- nuclear war, societal breakdown, nobody really knew what.

Better days came along, though. They always do. You never appreciate the good times until you've been tested in the bad.

Posted by: Monty at October 29, 2009 02:21 PM (nTxjg)

124

64  Also, if you rape ...automatic castration.

And not chemically.  I'd be all for castration with a rusty battle ax.

Or a plastic knife, like the kind you find at KFC


Or use this thing that doubleplusundead posted on his blog yesterday.

WARNING! WARNING! NSFW.  NOT SAFE FOR YOUR SANITY TOO.


I hate the italics button btw.




Posted by: fozzy at October 29, 2009 02:21 PM (ccEuN)

125 I didn't read Dr. Laura's books, but someone was telling me Dr. Laura said girls give it up too easily nowawdays. Because of that, guys don't take the time and effort to court them like they used to. Dating was an investment and if it didn't work out with a girl, oh, well move on. Since girls are willing to give it up for nothing, why bother trying?

I think she may be onto something.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:22 PM (GZnia)

126 Men have objectified women since the beginning of time.  If you knew what we are actually thinking you would never stop hitting us.  We are hardwired to notice a tight ass and sweet rack.  That is very different from raping them.  At least it used to be.

Herr M, yes, but it used to be men were taught self control. That seems not to be in the lesson plan anymore. And in the Islamic world men just blame the women for their lack of self control.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:24 PM (GZnia)

127 They just passed this hate crime law, and gender is now included.

I'm against hate crime laws, but if we're going to have them, why don't lefties consider all sexual assaults against women hate crimes? Is it because too many of their leaders and voting base are committing them?

Posted by: stace at October 29, 2009 02:24 PM (g/wgk)

128

Also, I think all who recorded or took pictures of this should at least be in jail and labeled as sex offenders/child pornographers.

I need to quit thinking of this, because my mind is conjuring all sorts of ugly and cruel scenarios that I believe should happen to all of these less-than-animal pieces of shit.

Posted by: Iamnotanalcoholic at October 29, 2009 02:25 PM (lUbPs)

129 The "costumes" they put the five and six year olds (and, of course, older), made me cringe.  They were belly-baring, boy-shorts sequin numbers with fringe.

I used to work at a ballet studio and we would get costume catalogs every so often. Paging through some of those catalogs for the younger set is appalling. The teen ones are pretty bad, but I couldn't believe how tarted out the little kids costumes were.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:26 PM (GZnia)

130 Ace says:
"On Twitter, Greg Pollowitz says "Death penalty for all of them, including the spectators." I agree. And I know there's no law to get to such just punishment, but then, as they say, no jury in the world would convict you."

If I was on the jury, I would. I could be just as convincing as Juror No. 8.  

Posted by: SDH at October 29, 2009 02:26 PM (iwQEr)

131 Men have objectified women since the beginning of time.  If you knew what we are actually thinking you would never stop hitting us.  We are hardwired to notice a tight ass and sweet rack.  That is very different from raping them.  At least it used to be.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 07:20 PM (qWLc4)

Very true. Here's a figure from 35,000 years ago. Archaeologists call it a 'fertility figurine' but any guy knows it's really a porn statue. Men have been objectifying women for a long time.

Posted by: Mtenloch at October 29, 2009 02:26 PM (z843g)

132 Herr Morgenholz,

I know exactly what you're talking about, as my husband and I have had conversations going down that line a million times. Men are more vulnerable to visual stimulation. I get it.

What I'm referring to is more the sexualization of the extremely young. We're at a point where people are letting their elementary school girls wear makeup, belly shirts, crotch-cutting shorts, etc. What kind of chances are we giving our girls in life when we're telling them almost from the womb that they have to look and act like sluts to be cool?

Posted by: Mandy P. at October 29, 2009 02:26 PM (MK6Kx)

133 Herr M, yes, but it used to be men were taught self control. That seems not to be in the lesson plan anymore.

Yes, but the lesson plan says that if a boy notices a pretty girl, he is a rapist.  If a girl pulls a six way train under the bleachers, she's not a slut, she was raped.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:27 PM (qWLc4)

134

Girls always gave it up -- the whole "virgin until marriage" thing was a polite and charming lie society used to tell itself. 

The truism of the comment is that society required young people to at least go through the motions of courting, and dare I say, take the responsiblity of sexual reproduction, a bit more seriously than they do today.  Young men and women were held to a higher level of responsible behavior as well -- the sexual revolution was only a revolution in being allowed to act childish imho.

There, I believe is the crux of the problem.

Posted by: unknown jane at October 29, 2009 02:27 PM (5/yRG)

135 Ace -- The ugly darkside of female sexuality is that displays of cruelty, violence, and inhumanity are turn-ons to many women and girls. When a gang-banger kills someone, it is a sure bet he'll have sex that night. When say, OJ or Johan Van Der Sloot, or the Petersons Scott and Drew, draw many, many, attractive, young female admirers, who could have any man, it is good clue as to what many women want: CRUELTY. VIOLENCE. SADISM. INHUMANITY. Black Actress Lauren London confesses she loves thugs, and found the scene in one gangsta rap movie where the thug shot a clerk dead for no reason "a turn on" and also "funny." Michael Vick threw his family pets into fighting dogs to be torn apart, and does not lack for female companionship and interest. Women broadly (there are exceptions) LOVE CRUELTY. Look at the vampire craze. If women would not willingly have sex with any but decent, caring, protective guys, then that is EXACTLY what men would make of themselves. Women want monsters, many of them, and it is worst among Black and Hispanic women, and least worst among Asian women, with Whites somewhere in between and sliding towards Black/Hispanic models. This is the dark side of Female Hypergamy and desire for brutal, dominant men. Nothing is more dominant than slowly killing and torturing some helpless being or animal Michael Vick and Drew Peterson (a fave among College age hotties) show this in Spades. I have no doubt that these perps were the faves of the local hotties AFTER this incident. Scott Peterson had multiple marriage offers awaiting him in prison.

Posted by: whiskey at October 29, 2009 02:27 PM (L03mw)

136 If a girl pulls a six way train under the bleachers, she's not a slut, she was raped.

Do I want to know what a 6 way train is?

unknown jane, what you said about the date rape stuff and "take back the night" was what I wanted to say but couldn't articulate. I completely agree with you.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:30 PM (GZnia)

137 What I'm referring to is more the sexualization of the extremely young. We're at a point where people are letting their elementary school girls wear makeup, belly shirts, crotch-cutting shorts, etc.

We homeschool.  All sorts of people look at us and give us the whining "What about socialization?!!!!1??"  My answer is always "You mean like the socialization when I smoked my first joint behind the junior high, or the socialization where I got my first knobjob on the band bus?"  Tends to shut them up.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:30 PM (qWLc4)

138

I taught junior college in Gary, Indiana.  It was the black side of town, not quite ghetto but not far from it.  Often when I was coming or going to or from a local store, I would open the door for a young black girl who was passing through.  The first time, the girl said nothing but got kind of an attitude on her face and just walked through.  Same for the second and third time. 

It kinda pissed me off because even the trashiest white girl will thank you for opening a door for her, but I decided not to react but just study the situation.  It kept happenning.  I watched them closely and also watched them from a distance when walking through doors with other black people.

I came to the conclusion that the girls were surprised by having the door opened for them and didn't know what to do, so they defaulted to ghetto attitude and pushed on through.  Nobody opened doors for them so they had never learned to say thank you.  Nobody respected them enough to open a door for them.

Posted by: Tantor at October 29, 2009 02:30 PM (Ek/Oc)

139

Wherestherum,

Exactly. *shudder* Not suprisingly, at that studio, they were far more concerned with making money than in giving a crap about their students or teachers.  They frequently pitted the teachers against the parents to avoid responsibility for management policies.  If someone spoke up, they were fired or shunned or kept from taking the classes they wanted to take, etc.  Glad I quit.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:31 PM (GF971)

140 133 Exactly, which sends a message to little boys that it's okay to think of little girls as merely sexual beings.

I can still remember when the worst thing I worried about in junior high was being teased by boys, & that was 9 yrs ago. 

Posted by: Miss'80sB at October 29, 2009 02:34 PM (zmiSr)

141 We homeschool.  All sorts of people look at us and give us the whining "What about socialization?!!!!1??"  My answer is always "You mean like the socialization when I smoked my first joint behind the junior high, or the socialization where I got my first knobjob on the band bus?"  Tends to shut them up.

We're looking at home schooling when our kids are that age. I've got a 2 1/2 year-old boy and a baby girl due in February. I definitely don't want them taught the lessons kids are getting in school now. If only it wouldn't scar them for life to put them in chastity belts and chain them up in their rooms until they were 21.......

I keed, I keed!

Posted by: Mandy P. at October 29, 2009 02:34 PM (MK6Kx)

142 the whole "virgin until marriage" thing was a polite and charming lie society used to tell itself.

True, but as you go on to say, at least they went through the motions.  The motions are now socially verboten.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:34 PM (qWLc4)

143

Posted by: Mandy P. at October 29, 2009 07:34 PM (MK6Kx)



We do K12.  Love it.  Google it and see if it's available in your state.  It's still sucking off the taxpayer too, so there's that satisfaction as well.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:36 PM (qWLc4)

144

Whiskey, I've wondered about that, and I think it has a bit of a biological explanation.

No matter how much tripe is trotted out about "sensitive, caring men, blah, blah", women are hard wired to desire tough men (heh, just like men are hard wired to desire a "sweet rack").  Tough men went out and slayed the enemy tribe, killed the ravaging bear, brought down the big game, and also beat the crap out of any man in the tribe who tried to steal the best farm ground for himself.   If you were hooked up to a tough and clever man, your children had a better chance of survival, and so did you.

So this Alan Alda gig that we've been trying to push on Western men has backfired on both ends: confused men who've forgotten how to be tough without being brutal (a good many of them, or at least a society that's sort of forgotten about tough, non-brutal men) but at the same time are hating the very constrained lot they've been dished out and equally confused women who don't know what they want (rude, gross chauvinist pig!...but for some reason he's soo much more exciting than Mr. Alan Alda...I don't know why...).  This is a rather brief and attenuated description, but I think you get my point.

Posted by: unknown jane at October 29, 2009 02:36 PM (5/yRG)

145 136- I really think the kind of women you refer to are in the minority.

Posted by: John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar at October 29, 2009 02:36 PM (XzzCe)

146 Mouse,

Thankfully my studio wasn't like that. They were ballet dancers so the costumes were limited anyway and only the upper level girls were even allowed to wear leotards in a color other than black.

I'm hard pressed to find anyone I know who doesn't enjoy rap or hiphop. I know there are some songs out there in those categories that talk about love (more in R&B, probably) but most of the songs I've heard just glorify thug life and slapping hos.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 02:37 PM (GZnia)

147

Oh, oh, are the homeschoolers coming out of the closet?

(raises hand) That's me! (since fifth grade, when I came home from school with a mouth my parents were ashamed of (language, in case anyone wants to go anywhere else with that))

Also, unknown jane, I didn't give it up til my wedding night. I was 23.  You can raise kids that way.  I'm not mythical or a "charming lie", I swear.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:40 PM (GF971)

148 136, 145- Being attracted to dominant men is not the same thing as being attracted to brutal men. The two shouldn't be tied together.

Posted by: Girl Thursday at October 29, 2009 02:40 PM (XzzCe)

149 Oh, and for all those who passed by or witnessed, and did nothing, one can only hope Dante knows of what he speaks.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

Posted by: SDH at October 29, 2009 02:40 PM (iwQEr)

150

Posted by: unknown jane at October 29, 2009 07:36 PM (5/yRG)

Authentic manhood has been under attack at least since I was born.  I had 5 older brothers, an infantry Colonel as a father, and a mother who would blow your ass away without trepidation, though.  I fully intend to raise my son to know how to skin deer and treat a woman with respect. 

There's a lot more of us out there than "Sex in the City" would indicate.  Cultural atavism doesn't die.


Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:40 PM (qWLc4)

151 Also, unknown jane, I didn't give it up til my wedding night.

That's hot.  Really.  Men should see that as hot, too.   But that's not the direction the culture has gone.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:42 PM (qWLc4)

152 I live in a town just down from Richmond, worse in some ways better in others. I do not rely on the law to keep me or my loved ones safe. I will kill to keep me and my loved ones safe. Welcome to the jungle.

Posted by: djarnold at October 29, 2009 02:42 PM (zTMpb)

153

I vaguely remembered the Kitty Genovese case from a college psych class, but I didn't know all the details.  The raper/killer/necrophiliac had his original death sentence overturned to life in prison and periodically comes up for parole.  He admitted to killing two other women, raping numerous others and burglarizing many homes.  Why this douchebag is still alive is beyond me.  I just found this on the Tru TV website:

Moseley realized he would become eligible for parole and he began a concentrated effort to gain release from prison. He read books from the prison library, and using taxpayer funds, was able to enroll in a college program. In the late 1970s, he became one of the first inmates in New York State to earn a college degree when he received a B.A. in Sociology from Niagara University. He wrote letters to newspapers and continued his campaign to obtain a parole.

During the period 1984 through 1995, Moseley appeared before the state parole board six times. His appearances were marked by his bizarre, self-serving comments to the panel, and he frequently assumed the role of societys victim. For a victim outside, its a one-time or one hour or one minute affair, but for the person whos caught, its forever, he said in 1984. People do kill people when they mug them sometimes, he added. At one parole hearing, Moseley claimed he had written a letter to the Genovese family to apologize for the inconvenience I caused. The Genovese family strongly denied receiving any such communication nor did they wish for one.

Unbelievable.  I think I read somewhere else that he last came up for parole in 2006.

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 02:42 PM (qP2BK)

154 126 I didn't read Dr. Laura's books, but someone was telling me Dr. Laura said girls give it up too easily nowawdays. Because of that, guys don't take the time and effort to court them like they used to. Dating was an investment and if it didn't work out with a girl, oh, well move on. Since girls are willing to give it up for nothing, why bother trying? I think she may be onto something. Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 07:22 PM I used to listen to Dr. Laura every morning when they had her on WJR 760AM here in the Detroit area. So I can confirm that yes she does say this all the time. The problem is, while some girls may agree that she is on to something, everyone has a different opinion as to when is the right time to "give it up". The standard conservative opinion is "not until marriage". But you won't find barely anyone who will agree that that is a standard for which we should strive. You'll hear people go "oh we can't possibly expect people nowadays to wait until marriage". So then we're at the completely vague "don't give it up too easily". For some that means "when we are in love", for others it's "when we are exclusive", for others it's completely different. And in each case, someone can rightfully say that the girl is still "giving it up too easily". Really, if men knew they couldn't have sex with a woman unless they were married to her, they would go to much greater lengths to woo women. And take sex much more seriously. But, pretty much the majority of our culture agrees "you can't expect people to wait to have sex until marriage"... thus, the point of "giving it up too easily" is moot. Because basically any girl who is giving sex up to a guy without being married is "giving it up too easily".

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 02:43 PM (ObTcs)

155

Wherestherum,

I still cringe when I hear rap or hiphop, solely based on my experience with it at that studio.  Even though the dancers were required to use the "Disney" versions of those songs. 

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:44 PM (GF971)

156 True, but as you go on to say, at least they went through the motions.  The motions are now socially verboten.

Birth-control pills pretty much killed off even the fiction of female chastity before marriage. When you divorce sex from the baby-making aspect, it becomes simply...recreation. So it's no surprise that people treat the whole thing rather cavalierly nowadays.

Women now seem to be going through a vogue where it's cool to be "polyamorous" or lesbian or bisexual. The act of coitus itself almost seems to be an afterthought: it seems to be more of a social phenomenon, a way of creating in-groups and out-groups. The long-term cultural impact of this kind of experimentation has yet to play itself out. No one seems to be giving much thought as to how all this freewheeling sex impacts the young 'uns: both as observers and participants.

Many girls seem to want children mostly as accessories, as living dolls they can dress up and push around in a pram and show off to their friends. The male is barely part of the equation: he's the sperm donor and financial support mechanism, but beyond that...his input doesn't seem to be particularly needed or wanted. And younger men seem to be fine with this -- it frees up a lot of time to play XBox.

When I was a wee lad, we had baseball as a way of socializing and figuring out the pecking-order. (Or, if you were a girl, softball. Because as everyone knows, girls can't play hardball.)

Posted by: Monty at October 29, 2009 02:44 PM (nTxjg)

157 Thank God the World Series is starting.  I agree with other posters, today has been really depressing.  Hopefully, the Phillies will win.  (If the Yankees win, it will send me down into a deep, dark spiral!)

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 02:44 PM (qP2BK)

158 Save yourselves, friends. Barring a major resetting of the table, the gentlemen in question and their compadres from south of the border will own America by mid century. We will be a despised and hunted minority in our own land. May God and the Founders have mercy on our souls, because these people certainly will not.

Posted by: obama is a traitor at October 29, 2009 02:44 PM (Qt4Y7)

159 I can still remember when the worst thing I worried about in junior high was being teased by boys, & that was 9 yrs ago. 

Posted by: Miss'80sB at October 29, 2009 07:34 PM (zmiSr)

Texas isn't Richmond, Ca. Not yet anyway. The larger cities are mostly there.

Posted by: Johnathan E. at October 29, 2009 02:44 PM (dQdrY)

160 This "we have no respect for women" thing the feminists keep puking out infuriates me.  From time immemorial men have protected women, even at the risk of their own lives.  "Women and children first," anyone?  Which, I note, still applies and happens despite all the squawking about "equality."  Men regularly step in, at risk to their own lives, to protect women in all sorts of cases.  We seem to be hardwired to do it.
Which makes crimes like this all the worse.  These "men" have twisted their minds to the point that they can overcome millions of years of evolution.

Posted by: Flubber at October 29, 2009 02:45 PM (q5Xgs)

161 Why this douchebag is still alive is beyond me

We are a society that can't summon the will to put a bullet in Khalid Sheik-Muhammad's head.  Why does this surprise you?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:45 PM (qWLc4)

162

Herr Morgenholtz,

Thanks.  My man thought so, too. ;-)

And, as far as is it's in my control, my sons will be brought up to respect women and my daughters to respect themselves.  "Be the change you want to see in the world", right?

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:46 PM (GF971)

163 Women have the society they voted for. Not y'all, but the majority voted for this shit..

Posted by: Johnathan E. at October 29, 2009 02:47 PM (dQdrY)

164

Authentic manhood has been under attack at least since I was born. 

Don't know when you were born, but it was already dead in my family in the 70's.  I was raised by libtards who just couldn't understand why I kept getting into fights and got disruptive in class.  I mean, they made sure I didn't have any acceptable outlets for aggression or energy, so what more could they do? 

Fortunately, they missed the part about religion being the opiate of the masses, and my rampage was tempered somewhat by taking religion seriously.  Then I got lucky and became clinically depressed at the onset of puberty.  Probably the only reason I didn't get thrown in jail during my teens.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at October 29, 2009 02:50 PM (pZEar)

165

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 29, 2009 07:26 PM (z843g)

Heh!  That's funny--all boobs and no brain (there's no head!) 

Posted by: runningrn at October 29, 2009 02:50 PM (qP2BK)

166 57 Many girls seem to want children mostly as accessories, as living dolls they can dress up and push around in a pram and show off to their friends.

I know so many girls who are like this. Many of them received little love as children & were sexually abused by a relative. They think that having a baby to love will help ease their hurt & pain, because babies love unconditionally.* But babies aren't toys, & they don't remain infants forever. Sounds obvious; but it isn't, really.

*I've actually had that said to me multiple times

Posted by: Miss'80sB at October 29, 2009 02:50 PM (zmiSr)

167 Don't know when you were born, but it was already dead in my family in the 70's.

1970.  But Blazer is still a hell of a lot older than me.  I heard Alzheimer's left him for someone younger.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:51 PM (qWLc4)

168

rape = capital offense 

They should never have changed that.

 

 

 

Posted by: garrett at October 29, 2009 02:53 PM (kiIqi)

169

MTV? co conspirators?  So, let me get this straight, all the shit conservative have been saying for 40 years about shit music is true.

Damn, I am shocked.  Wonder if the MSM will admit it?

Not a fucking chance.

In the boys defense, boys are treated like second class citizens by the school, so maybe they can go over the edge?

Nah, these fuckers are just thugs,

Jail baby. 

They'll learn about rape soon enough.

 

Posted by: Kemp at October 29, 2009 02:54 PM (2+9Yx)

170

Garrett,

In cases like this, I agree totally.  It's not about revenge.  It's about making sure it never happens again.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:54 PM (GF971)

171 They think that having a baby to love will help ease their hurt & pain, because babies love unconditionally

No child should have to suffer with a mother that stupid.  The baby-daddy, of course, is no where to be found in such a situation.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 02:55 PM (qWLc4)

172 Herr M, yes, but it used to be men were taught self control. That seems not to be in the lesson plan anymore. And in the Islamic world men just blame the women for their lack of self control. Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 07:24 PM It also used to be that all women were taught not to dress and act like whores. That seems not to be in the lesson plan anymore either. Now, the act of rape is fully on the man. When a woman says no, it's over. Period. I know from experience of this happening. My college girlfriend and I decided we desperately wanted to know how it felt without me wearing a condom. Now, she was on birth control as well, but we always used both to be 'safe'. Well, this one time we decided to not use a condom. I was in for about 5 seconds when she started bawling and told me to get out. Immediately without a second thought, I was out, beside her, holding her and asking her what was wrong. She said she was so afraid that she was going to get pregnant from us not using a condom and it scared the bejeezus out of her. We never tried that again. So I don't buy it when I've had two girls tell me that they made out with a guy, got almost all the way to intercourse, but then decided they wanted to stop, but the guy said "well, it's too late now" and kept going. There is never a point where it's too late to stop and it is never an excuse to keep going after a girl says no, even if she wanted it at first. No means no. But, it is a little odd that the general opinion of men by women in our culture is that we are just a bunch of sexualized, idiot cavemen, yet at the same time women think so highly of men to have perfect self control in the face of women teasing men with seductive clothing and actions. Women are not 'asking for it', but they are playing with fire in a lot of cases, assuming that all men are gentlemen. What needs to happen is males need to get back to being gentlemen and females need to get back to being ladies.

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 02:56 PM (ObTcs)

173

meh.  Women who think babies love unconditionally never had one.

Babies take unconditionally, at least for the first couple years.  My two year old is starting to give back, but not without a lot of investment first.  And his daddy is around.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 02:58 PM (GF971)

174 Mouse: Also, unknown jane, I didn't give it up til my wedding night. I was 23.  You can raise kids that way.  I'm not mythical or a "charming lie", I swear.

Thank you for that.  You are a light shining in the darkness.  I hope my daughter and two sons will be as well.

Posted by: oLD gUY at October 29, 2009 02:59 PM (P/D33)

175 Very true. Here's a figure from 35,000 years ago. Archaeologists call it a 'fertility figurine' but any guy knows it's really a porn statue. Men have been objectifying women for a long time.

Posted by: M鎡enloch at October 29, 2009 07:26 PM (z843g)

--Back then, though, although men were chauvinistic and in many cases may have hated women on some level, a lot of it was probably out of envy for women's life-giving power, which was mytholigized and deified.

Much societal hatred for women now seeks to deny even the very concept of womenhood, of any "otherness" from men.  Look at how motherhood is treated, and how having an unexpected pregnancy is a "punishment."

Posted by: logprof at October 29, 2009 03:00 PM (I3Udb)

176 Old guy, thanks.  I'm sure yours will be as well.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:01 PM (GF971)

177 meh.  Women who think babies love unconditionally never had one.

No. Shit.  It's not up to kids to love unconditionally.  That's the parents' job.  Kids are selfish, manipulative (you ain't hit the fun part yet), and generally expensive pains in the ass.  But you love them unconditionally, and you can't help it.  It's great being a parent.  Frustrating, keeps you broke, (I literally just got hit in the head with an empty Pixie Stix), but, it's worth it.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:02 PM (qWLc4)

178

You want to be the husband or the wife?

Er, I'll be the husband.

OK, come one up here and suck your wife's dick.

Jose, his first night in prison.

Posted by: Kemp at October 29, 2009 03:03 PM (2+9Yx)

179 Fatherlessness. It's not a minority problem, it's a fatherlessness problem. I'll betcha. Ann Coulter has a chapter in "Guilty" about this.

Posted by: Rosemarie at October 29, 2009 03:03 PM (4DmKS)

180 If women would not willingly have sex with any but decent, caring, protective guys, then that is EXACTLY what men would make of themselves. Women want monsters, many of them, and it is worst among Black and Hispanic women, and least worst among Asian women, with Whites somewhere in between and sliding towards Black/Hispanic models. This is the dark side of Female Hypergamy and desire for brutal, dominant men. Posted by: whiskey at October 29, 2009 07:27 PM Exactly. You can see this on a certain level with the "bad boy" in high school and with the whole idea of sleeping with the rich married businessman. For some reason, many women are attracted to "power".

Posted by: Michael in MI at October 29, 2009 03:03 PM (ObTcs)

181 Does anyone remember when "females" replaced using "women" and "girls" in speech? Is this relatively new or did I just miss it and why is it used instead?

Posted by: Shannon at October 29, 2009 03:04 PM (niZOC)

182 Does anyone remember when "females" replaced using "women" and "girls" in speech? Is this relatively new or did I just miss it and why is it used instead?

Posted by: Shannon at October 29, 2009 08:04 PM (niZOC)

I never stopped.  "Female" is used when I'm talking about farm animals.  I prefer "ladies", when appropriate.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:06 PM (qWLc4)

183

Herr Morgenholz,

Clearly, you speak from experience.  I mean, come on, would someone without kids be able to visualize the empty pixie stik?  But, it made me laugh.  And I totally agree.  My two-year-old is manipulative.... with his dad.  He's already figured out that I'm more stubborn than he is (what a battle that was!), but he loves me anyway.   Though, as the oldest of eight, I know there will always be those hard stages.  Was the pixie stik from trick-or-treating?  I'm still staving off the seasonal sugar high with mine.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:06 PM (GF971)

184 This is one of the giant Piixie Stix, empty and found under the couch, undoubtedly.  Probably came from the concession stand at the park during one of "Duh Boy's" soccer games.  He's now beating his sister with it.  It's a Light Saber, at the moment.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:09 PM (qWLc4)

185 Now they're fighting over the light switch.  I could tweet this shit and call it "My Kids and The Pain in the Ass They are."

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:10 PM (qWLc4)

186

I can understand the JO's that committed this crime...their thugsx10...

what freaks me out is all the people that stopped and watched it or took pictures of it and went home...sick, real sick.  I think we look at real life as if it is a TV show, we're voyeurs with no responsibility?...or at least the young people in this crime did.

Posted by: ford at October 29, 2009 03:10 PM (Ki7fm)

187 Ah, childhood.  Time of peace, joy, innocence.  I'll never forget that my one-year-old son (same boy, a year ago), knew exactly what to do with a plastic sword, a plastic gun and a plastic lightsaber... and he's never watched a violent movie in his life.  Where do they come up with these things?

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:11 PM (GF971)

188 what freaks me out is all the people that stopped and watched it or took pictures of it and went home...sick, real sick.

Not long ago I read an interview from a Detroit alternative newspaper.  The interviewee was an old homeless guy who relayed the story of wandering into a deserted house and seeing a chick doing a dog while a dozen guys stood around and cheered.  She got a rock of crack for putting on the show.  The old hobo was distraught over it.  And he was a professional street person.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:13 PM (qWLc4)

189

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 08:11 PM (GF971)

To a boy, all objects become weapons.  That is highly relevant to this discussion.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:15 PM (qWLc4)

190

Yeah - we should totally wipe out Judeo-Christian values.  It's all their fault. :sarcasm off:

Can anyone else see that the more those values are ridiculed and discarded, the worse our society gets? There's no firm definition of right and wrong.  People can't tell the difference.  There's no accountabililty.

Don't post the Ten Commandments because they're religious.  Forget that they speak to every decency a civilized society should have.  And everything Jesus taught was about how to respect the lives of others and therefore save yourselves.

Look at everything BUT THAT as guidance.  And so we end up with total shit in the Whitehouse and our govt. and our hard-won country and freedoms being sold for lies.

 

Posted by: Dianne at October 29, 2009 03:15 PM (FcncT)

191

Herr Morgenholz,

I agree about all things being weapons.  But even my boy knows not to use them to aim at me, his sister, or his aunts or grandparents.  But I had to teach him that.  No one is teaching either these thug kids or the equally culpable by-standers.  As an interesting side note, anyone who actually cheered, at least in this state, would be legally liable for the crime itself.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:18 PM (GF971)

192 Yeah - we should totally wipe out Judeo-Christian values.

You can't knock down a house without destroying its foundation.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:19 PM (qWLc4)

193 But even my boy knows not to use them to aim at me, his sister, or his aunts or grandparents.

Duh Boy has a couple of toy guns.  We're a gun owning family.  If he aims them at someone, I snatch it out of his hand and smack him in the head with it.  He's learning.  Gun safety begins at birth in this family.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:21 PM (qWLc4)

194 I can't believe people are blaming liberals for things like this.  As if this type of thing is new, or never happened before.  Bullshit.  Horrible gang rapes happen and have always happened.  They happen today in "civilized" nations such as ours, as well as so-called third world nations run by despots.  The only thing new about it is the internet and 24 hour news networks.  We just hear about it.

As horrible as this is, this wouln't have been anything other than local news 20 years ago.  Even if it was national news, what, a mention on the 5'o'clock news?  An article in the paper.  It's a different world alright.  We hear about every bad thing that happens anywhere.

And prison rape blows.  Who gets rewarded by turning a blind eye to prison rape?  Rapists do!  Do you really trust rapists to be just in their raping?  Absolutely punish the hell out of these assholes.  But leaving that punishment up to their fellow rapists is not an acceptable solution.

Posted by: seattle slough at October 29, 2009 03:22 PM (JRGA6)

195 Amen!  I come from a gun-owning family, too.  They came late to it, though, so, as the oldest, I missed out.  I'm still thinking about getting one, though, and, if I do, safety will be the priority.  And my boy will learn how to use one properly when he's old enough, having learned now that there are certain thigns you don't point it at.  How old is yours?

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:24 PM (GF971)

196 Slough, that was a coherent, logical, and well taken comment, with thought and much truth behind it.  Your troll-fu has weakened, oh douchebaggy one.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:25 PM (qWLc4)

197 I am so f'n sick of thug culture.

Come on, how else you gonna get to be a partial owner of an NFL team.

Posted by: Dr. Do-it-yourself at October 29, 2009 03:25 PM (DIYmd)

198 Duh Boy just turned 5.  The girls are 9 and 8.  Good, good kids.  That's my wife.  If it was just me, they'd be assholes like their old man.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:26 PM (qWLc4)

199

<i>The problem isn't that we're raising boys who don't respect girls.</i>

I don't anyone raised these boys, period. 

Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at October 29, 2009 03:27 PM (uw+0A)

200

Herr Morgenholz,

That's probably the homeschooler coming out in them. ;-)  I worked at a living history museum for six summers and we could always recognize the homeschoolers.  They were the polite, well-spoken, well-educated, obedient, curious, intelligent, didn't jump on the historical furniture types.  And that speaks well of *both* parents.  It would be a funny old world if we were all exactly like our mothers.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:30 PM (GF971)

201 Various museums, etc. around us have homeschool days where admission is free or really cheap.  It's amazing the lack of "apeshit" behavior compared to other situations we've seen with a bunch of kids running around.  I think that it comes from never being in a situation where each adult is responsible for 25 kids, thereby giving the kid an opportunity to learn that adults can be fooled.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:35 PM (qWLc4)

202 I'm out for a while.  Nice talking to you, Mouse.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 03:37 PM (qWLc4)

203 I think it comes from the fact that the homeschooled kids have someone who loves them enough to figuratively whack them upside the head when they're out of line.  A teacher in a room full of twenty-five kids can't and won't, in all, except sometimes the most egregious cases (based on my observation of literally hundreds of school groups on field-trip days).  Homeschooling parents also are able to recognize and encourage good traits.  Based on my few years in private school, teachers don't do this.  They simply can't care about every child enough.  Parents can and do.  Hence, different behavioural standards and practices.  Just my two cents.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:40 PM (GF971)

204 Ciao, Morgenholz.  Nice talking to you, too.

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 03:41 PM (GF971)

205

the spectators are even a more disturbing aspect. as to this case being a young girl, we saw from the case yesterday torture suffering and rape were perpetuated on both a male and female.

while the tool might be sex in both cases, i don't believe it's only about sexualizing, it's more  about causing suffering  and pain to another male or female,

the youth , do many of them seem empty, and i disagree they have no regard for anything, they do for their chosen peers, they'd likely shoot anyone that perpetuated this on one of their chosen groups member, they have become like packs of ravening dogs.

all the onlooking should be jailed . all the torturers should never be out in society again. 23 hours of lock up a day? i see no reason for any break at all except to eat, use the restroom.

they not only destroy that victim, they destroy our societies. 

 

Posted by: ugh-willow at October 29, 2009 03:41 PM (1kwr2)

206

148 -- I was not making a statement in regards to individuals; if a person waits until marriage, great.  It just hasn't been as much a sure thing as many have been led to believe that it was -- premarital sex is not a new invention; what has changed is how it has been viewed (to some extent).  I really think the over mythologization of this is part of the problem (a problem our grand or great grandparents weren't as subjected to thanks to media not being as prevalent back then, that, and they tended to marry earlier which also cut down considerably on the problem I think).

On one hand, we have people preaching (yes preaching) "wait until your married" as some shining moral ideal from some golden age (that never existed) and not taking it from a pragmatic stance; on the other, we have children who are being, let's be blunt, turned into pornographic subjects (due to some other, conflicting ideal or so it seems).  There is no happy, pragmatic middle in the way we approach sexuality, and we pay for it.

Posted by: unknown jane at October 29, 2009 03:44 PM (5/yRG)

207

The Knoxville case was not prosecuted as a hate crime for obvious (to liberals) reasons.  However, I'm confident that justice will be carried out regardless, as it was in the Shephard and Byrd cases.

Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at October 29, 2009 03:45 PM (uw+0A)

208 It occurred to me that these onlookers were no different than Ted Kennedy looking at a struggling Mary Jo and saying "sorry, but I gotta go".

Posted by: Dr. Do-it-yourself at October 29, 2009 03:45 PM (DIYmd)

209 It's sad when we have to rely on the prison population to mete out justice.  We all know there will be some bleeding heart lawyer who will plead with the court that they are just boys and so young don't send them to the cruel, mean prison.  Fxxk em.  They deserve exactly what I hope they get in the slammer. It won't be Mayberry punks.

Posted by: MPFS Indentured Fish Stick to the State at October 29, 2009 03:47 PM (PBGAP)

210 All this talk about what pains in the ass kids are reminds me of my own mom. She'd be talking to a friend of hers on the phone, and I'd be dorking around somewhere nearby, and the conversation would go something like this:

"Oh, yeah, I love kids! Aren't they great? They're such--GODDAMMIT WILL YOU SHUT THE HELL UP FOR TWO SECONDS! I'M ON THE PHONE! KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF BEFORE I COME IN THERE AND WHALE THE CRAP OUT OF YOU! Anway, what was I saying? Yeah, kids, they're a treasure."

Posted by: Monty at October 29, 2009 03:52 PM (nTxjg)

211

You might be gone by now, Herr - but I'm glad to see that you are raising your children to be good and proper people.  You deserve accolades for being the thoughtful and responsible parent that you are.  Well done, sir.

 

 

Posted by: garrett at October 29, 2009 03:55 PM (kiIqi)

212 And no, I don't think anyone raised the perps; probably a fair few of the onlookers were not raised by anyone but their peer groups either.  I suppose this could be tied into how we've so devalued sexuality/reproduction, confused gender roles, and destroyed societal stops on inappropriate behavior that the family unit was bound to diseintegrate under the pressure.  Seattle's right, gang rape also isn't a new invention; I think what is new is the prevalence of it, and the disturbing trend of seeing it as a rather commonplace occurance -- it's like society has given up on trying to really rein in the problem already.

Posted by: unknown jane at October 29, 2009 04:01 PM (5/yRG)

213 If you're unconscious it can't be rape rape.It's funrape and that's fun, not rape rape. Free the Richmond Four! Power to the people!

Posted by: Oprah at October 29, 2009 04:02 PM (H1b4W)

214 Someone better screencap the comments here ASAP. Ace will no doubt send this post down the ol' memory hole once someone dares to type a politically-incorrect sentence or two.

Posted by: RJ at October 29, 2009 04:03 PM (ADbI4)

215 Mouse, if teachers were allowed to whack kids upside the head for misbehaving, maybe public school would be a smidge better. But the litigiousness of society has hog tied the good teachers from being able to discipline kids. Sending them to detention might hurt their feelings or something. I think they should bring back wooden rulers, imho.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 29, 2009 04:04 PM (GZnia)

216

We're raising a large number of children who are all of the following:

1. desensitized to violence

2. abused / uncared for by the dominant adults in their lives

3. bombarded with sexual and violent images from the cradle

4. repeatedly told that their value rests in their attractiveness

5. taught that belief in God is hokey, phony, hypocritical, evil, etc.

6. taught that women are nothing but hos and bitches

7. taught that killing a baby is just a lifestyle choice

8. pumped full of various prescription (and illegal) drugs

9. taught that their net value to society is ZERO

It's very simple.  Some people/organizations are TOO BIG TOO FAIL (see AIG, the federal government, celebrities, politicians, liberal elites, etc.).

THE REST OF US ARE TOO SMALL TO MATTER.

That poor, drunken girl was too f**king small to matter.

To anyone. 

Posted by: stickety at October 29, 2009 04:05 PM (Jg5C9)

217 On todays show we are going to explore the causes of funrape and how we can keep it out of the newspaper. ...cue polite audience clappage...

Posted by: Dr. Phil at October 29, 2009 04:10 PM (H1b4W)

218 Alex... I'll take rape for $200

Posted by: Jeopardy Contestant at October 29, 2009 04:12 PM (H1b4W)

219 We are a society that can't summon the will to put a bullet in Khalid Sheik-Muhammad's head.  Why does this surprise you?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 07:45 PM (qWLc4)


Fuck the bullet, we can't even pour some water down his throat without some asshole bitching.

Posted by: Johnny at October 29, 2009 04:12 PM (xVKXy)

220 Where's that useless Kenyan on this??? The SOB has an opinion on everything else under the sun.

Posted by: torabora at October 29, 2009 04:14 PM (H1b4W)

221 The Knoxville case was one of the few crimes...and there have been quite a few...that deserve death by the gimp.

Posted by: torabora at October 29, 2009 04:17 PM (H1b4W)

222 I'm available...if you'll either bring me my victims or unchain me so I can go to them. BTW, you wouldn't happen to have a brewski would ya?

Posted by: Gimp at October 29, 2009 04:20 PM (H1b4W)

223 My last post was 223. cute

Posted by: Gimp at October 29, 2009 04:21 PM (H1b4W)

224 Hey, I got an idea. How about not jumping to conclusions about how the culture does or doesn't respect women, or value life or is generally an SOB based on one anomalous incident? There's what, 300million people here? So every day somewhere there's someone doing something that's "1 in a million". Maybe it's a guy cutting his own head off with a chain saw, maybe it's a gang raping a defenseless girl for two hours in front of witnesses. Either way, a bunch of hair pulling and wailing and stamping in these cases is mainly an act of mental masturbation. Until, of course the media government complex gets ahold of it.

Maybe, if we're lucky, there won't be another "hate crime" law based on this incident. But frankly, I expect one sometime before the mid terms - it will make great copy. One things for sure, based on something that's less than a 1 in 100,000 likelyhood, every frikken parent in this country with a girl child will be standing outside every frikken dance they go to because people are too damn ignorant of how the media microscope works and what real likelyhoods mean.
 

Posted by: K at October 29, 2009 04:27 PM (0byh7)

225

K,

Do you have kids?  Would you just shrug it off if you found out your daughter was raped in public for two hours to an audience who approved?  Sure, they're all isolated incidents... until it's your kid.  Some of us would like to make sure it doesn't happen to ours.  That's why we discuss solutions.  If you're not contributing to the discussion, why are you bothering to pontificate to us?

Posted by: Mouse at October 29, 2009 04:36 PM (GF971)

226

"They did not respect humans, period."

exactly.

since these paticular individuals don't respect humans, should humans respect them?

reap what you sow?

eye for an eye?

i feeling pretty "eye for an eye"

 

 

Posted by: shoey at October 29, 2009 04:43 PM (RxUMK)

227 Mouse,
I'd blow their heads off with a shotgun and take my chances with twelve.  I'm sick of these violent sociopaths pulling this shit and getting away with it.

Posted by: MPFS Indentured Fish Stick to the State at October 29, 2009 04:44 PM (PBGAP)

228 215 Someone better screencap the comments here ASAP. Ace will no doubt send this post down the ol' memory hole once someone dares to type a politically-incorrect sentence or two.

Posted by: RJ at October 29, 2009 09:03 PM (ADbI4)


Yeah, this blog is so politically correct. 

If you don't like it here then fuck off.  Go start a blog called dipshit.com.  See how long it takes you to attract as many readers as our mighty Ewok leader.

Whiny bitch.

Posted by: fozzy at October 29, 2009 04:50 PM (ccEuN)

229

Where's that useless Kenyan on this??? The SOB has an opinion on everything else under the sun.

The TOTUS had a whole diatribe composed for him, but then he found out that the young girl wasn't a Mengelian infanticist like George Tiller.  So Barry ate a waffle and took a nap instead.

Posted by: VJay at October 29, 2009 04:57 PM (k87Wm)

230 Isn't it against the law not to report a crime?  Aren't witnesses who fail to do so just as guilty as the perpertrator in the sight of the law?

Posted by: BarbaraS at October 29, 2009 05:01 PM (tWYP4)

231

Posted by: K at October 29, 2009 09:27 PM (0byh7)

I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down.  And there's no question that our 24 hour media has turned these hiccups in society into some type of porn.

At the same time, I can't help but notice that the race to the bottom is so outside most people's experience that note is being taken.  I come from Viking stock. Fact is, gang rape is not a Viking thing at all, despite what you read.  Farming is, if you read history.  But you screw just one nun.......  But that's not what we're talking about. 

This act was a total repudiation of society and the cultural more.  Cultures are repudiated all the time.  But in mass?  People are grasping for an explanation of why we are turning on our own culture.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 29, 2009 05:05 PM (qWLc4)

232

"Three minors — 15, 16 and 17 — are each charged with felony rape with a foreign object"

WTF? Is this pro-wrestling?  Was Mr. Fuji standing in the shadows?

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at October 29, 2009 05:12 PM (vupGF)

233

@98: "I also don't rape the shit out of them."

You save that for the Post-No.6 Dance?

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at October 29, 2009 05:27 PM (vupGF)

234

@170: "Jail baby.  They'll learn about rape soon enough."

Um, I'm guessing you never saw the special about Richard Speck then?  Maybe they'll have a hard time of it, but I'd wager not.  They might spend their sentences partying balls like Speck did, or maybe they'll become predators in the jail, too.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at October 29, 2009 05:41 PM (vupGF)

235

#236

If  these are hispanics raping a black girl, they are dead meat.

If they raped another hispanic, they a someones whore or dead.

 

Posted by: Kemp at October 29, 2009 05:53 PM (2+9Yx)

236 Dumb doesn't begin to describe Patti Fisher, the Merc columnist.  She's a major lib sob sister who always conjures up the same boogeymen(women).  What Patti doesn't discuss is the misogynistic culture of the gangs these young men run with, the music they listen to, and the ethnic groups they belong too.  Can't talk about that because it's not PC.  Instead, Patti looks at these young men as if they were just middle class Tads wearing letter jackets while flipping through Daddy's porn stash and dreaming of the babe in the "Hot Chick" shirt in homeroom.

Not a week goes by in Richmond that there isn't a driveby shooting, murder, execution-style slaying, gangbanging, mugging, beating, or major drug bust in Richmond.  The place is a cesspool.  Any one with half a brain avoids the place.  I used to go to appointments in Richmond for work... my companion of choice was my Glock 9mm.  The only way this will ever change is when, and if, the people who live there rise up and say "enough"  'cause it's usually one of their own that pays the price for the gangsta culture.

Posted by: Kalifornia Kafir at October 29, 2009 05:54 PM (h+Y7i)

237 And so it proceeds....
"And I know there's no law to get to such just punishment"
But yes, there is.
So, three dusty travelers were wandering down the road to Gamora (sp?).
Yeah, sounds like a road show song... On the road to Gamora...

Anybody got a quick reference to Lot and the blast of a party at Gamora?  It's a rockin' story.

I've been watching this closely and trying so very hard not to take judgment into my own hands.

Posted by: MostlyHarmless at October 29, 2009 05:54 PM (OXJEZ)

238 Isn't it against the law not to report a crime?  Aren't witnesses who fail to do so just as guilty as the perpertrator in the sight of the law?

No.  Under our legal system, wrong can be punished but right cannot be required.  So, these creeps are as innocent as newborn lambs, in the eyes of the law.

Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at October 29, 2009 06:07 PM (61tK5)

239 Avenge me, boys.  Avenge me.

Posted by: human dignity at October 29, 2009 06:25 PM (PD1tk)

240 Let Sheriff Joe (Tx) issue them pink underwear and prison uniforms with 'I raped a 15 year old, printed on the back and put them in Ca's toughest prison. 30 days would be a long survival time.

Posted by: Scrapiron at October 29, 2009 06:32 PM (1kwr2)

241 As it's been a bit of a meta topic, I see a very basic problem with vigilante thoughts.

Namely, that it will never happen.  Charles Bronson, Liam What'sHisFace, SamJacksonInThatLawyerMovie.  Never happens in real life.  And when we indulge in it, like masturbation, it lets off steam.  To no effect.

It'd be great if every time we read a story like this, there was an ever greater pushback against soft sentencing, absent fathers, and the generally fucked up societal mores of the day.

Yes, as men (or as a parent more generally), we're charged with protecting ours but we can only do that to a certain degree.  Once they leave our sight, it becomes ever less sound.  As a society, we have to start focusing on changing laws and changing the culture.

Charles Bronson won't do shit for you.  Voting for open carry, putting cops on the streets and taking over school boards might.

Posted by: basic, before visual at October 29, 2009 07:08 PM (SL3qo)

242 All of this talk from the media about men not respecting women and nary a word on the gangster/thug Norteno and Sureno culture of Hispanic teens in California. Can't talk about that.  No, siree...

CNN and MSNBC may be shocked by this kind of behavior, but I can't imagine the producers of The History Channel's Gangland are surprised.

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Posted by: xlzhengnan at October 29, 2009 08:00 PM (Mj2H/)

244 A year ago, this would have been W's fault.  But now?  Probably still W's fault....

Posted by: Doug at October 29, 2009 08:56 PM (Pxgwq)

245

what freaks me out is all the people that stopped and watched it or took pictures of it and went home...sick, real sick

I know how to deal with these swine...

Posted by: Vlad Tepesh at October 29, 2009 09:02 PM (AcPH9)

246 So, these creeps are as innocent as newborn lambs, in the eyes of the law.

Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at October 29, 2009 11:07 PM (61tK5)

The girl was fifteen. Seems like they could at least make the cretins with cameras life miserable under child pornography laws.

Posted by: Johnathan E. at October 29, 2009 10:01 PM (dQdrY)

247 Richmond is like Oakland, except without the A's.

Posted by: PDizzle at October 29, 2009 10:03 PM (R0lVr)

248

"When the law is too mild, private vengeance comes in." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Compensation"

 

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at October 30, 2009 12:33 AM (GY/ii)

249

are people not willing to stop such barbaric actions because they don't want to be viewed as "racist"? Is this a consequence of PC culture and multiculturalism and moral relativism?

Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes. Thank you, liberal Demunists.

 

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 30, 2009 02:18 AM (IPGTN)

250

In the prior thread while someone was trying to make this about race, I was thinking the whole time "How many of the involved (rapists and casual watchers) came from two parent homes?

Mom love is "You're so wonderful. I'll love you no matter what!"

Dad love is "You better get your shit straight or I'll kick your ass!"

I'm a mom -I bite my tongue sometimes when I think my husband is being too tough on our kids.  I keep meeting the teenagers raised with only mom-love, and I do not want my kids to be remotely like them.  They seem to have no clue that other human beings exist for reasons other than serving them. They are selfish to the point of autism.

Every human being seems to need both kinds of parenting; too many kids right now seem to be damaged by having approval without standards or consequences. 

Not a knock on those who have lost the other parent through no fault of their own.  Just an observation - particularly of those who have one kid after another without ever having had the intention of a two-parent home anywhere along the way.  Also, obviously, not a statement that single-parenting leads invariably to felonies.  Just an observation, that the concern for others that Ace mentions seems to be lacking to some degree in the kids with no Dad figure in their lives.

Posted by: Jade Sea at October 30, 2009 04:12 AM (f2QL0)

251

2

 

Geraldo Rivera wanting to spit on Michele Malkin for her views on immigration.

Posted by: Booter at October 30, 2009 05:15 AM (eimUK)

252

253 -- Yes, and no.  I've known single moms who were successful at raising their kids (it was hard, and they probably would have been more successful if there had been another parent in the picture).  I've seen two parent homes that did an awful job.

The big factor -- at least what I've seen -- is this: the homes that were successful at raising kids were homes where the parent(s) were respectful of  society's rules and laws for the most part, and had a very defintite set of rules in the home that were consistently enforced.  The homes in question also valued education and/or some sort of gainful work responsiblity (the kids had chores they were expected to do and they were expected to at least do passably well at school).  It was easier for the families with two parents due to sharing of the burden of parenting, but I have found that single parents who followed this were more successful than a two parent family that didn't follow this, or even a two parent family in which one parent would not (this was actually the worst situation, from my observations).

From my experience, these other factors also counted:  the successful single mothers weren't necessarily against having a two parent household, rather they would have preferred it, but let's face it -- it's often hard for a single mom to find a new, suitable husband; they were also homes in which the single mom displayed a strong work ethic and set of moral rules (not always Christian, but still a set of rules which coincided with a civil society) -- aka. not your stereotypical welfare/crack whore single moms, nor even moms who considered it society's responsiblity to take care of them (many did have to draw welfare, but it was not considered an ideal state of existence -- something to try and get off of...they wanted to maintain their parental autonomy in their households and viewed the social workers as chipping away at that, which to some extent I believe they did).

Posted by: unknown jane at October 30, 2009 06:40 AM (5/yRG)

253

It's not that they don't respect women, they hate women.  That's the whole key to Hip Hop.

Posted by: nina at October 30, 2009 08:08 AM (IZlTn)

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