March 29, 2011
— Ace Obama made this claim in order to rebut critics who say he dithered indecisively:
To summarize, then: in just one month, the United States has worked with our international partners to mobilize a broad coalition, secure an international mandate to protect civilians, stop an advancing army, prevent a massacre, and establish a No Fly Zone with our allies and partners. To lend some perspective on how rapidly this military and diplomatic response came together, when people were being brutalized in Bosnia in the 1990s, it took the international community more than a year to intervene with air power to protect civilians.
That is misleading to the point of being a lie. He is trying to claim that he acted more promptly, assembled a military coalition more swiftly.
In fact, he did not. He refers to "air power" -- the establishment of a shoot-down no-fly zone created by UN Resolution 816 on March 31, 1993. A previous UN Resolution, which banned military flights in Bosnia, as set forth in Resolution 718, passed on October 9, 1992. But this resolution, while purporting to establish a ban, did not authorize the undertaking of any actual action to enforce that ban -- what it seemed to do was authorize "monitoring" and the recording of violations. By the time the second, shoot-down authorizing resolution was passed, the Bosnian War had been going on for a while.
Is Obama telling the truth, then?
No. Because while air power is usually the first sort of power to be injected into a theater, with ground troops coming later (if at all), in Bosnia, air power was the last to enter.
By the time Resolution 816 authorized NATO shoot-downs of aircraft violating the ban on flights, there had been boots-on-the-ground peacekeepers in the region for over a year.
Obama's attempt to draw a contrast with the previous alleged tardiness of world response in Bosnia is dishonest. A coalition of countries was assembled to provide the thorniest sort of protection possible, boots-on-the-ground separation of hostile forces:
The UNPROFOR was composed of nearly 39,000 personnel, 320 of whom were killed on duty. It was composed of troops from Argentina, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany , Ghana, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, Lithuania, Malaysia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, the Russian Federation, Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, the United Kingdom and the United States.
"Air power" did indeed come later, but ground power had already been organized to attempt to protect civilians and keep opposed forces separated, the same type of civilian-sparing humanitarian mission Obama hopes to achieve with the airstrikes. Air power was added later in Bosnia partly as an expansion of the old ground-based humanitarian effort to the skies but also partly in an effort to end the war by destroying the combatants' ability to make war.
It is simply not true, as Obama implied, that it took a year for the international community to respond in Bosnia. They had responded far more quickly than that. It took them a year only to decide to add air power -- a decision that was probably slowed by the fact that there tens of thousands of foreign peacekeepers already on the ground who would be natural magnets for retaliation when shoot-downs and airstrikes began. In other words, we already had almost 40,000 would-be hostages in the region.
Notice the dainty preciseness of his deception -- he speaks only about the introduction of "air power," and it's technically true that shoot-downs did not begin until a year later. He conveniently fails to mention, however, that the much more dangerous commitment of tens of thousands of peacekeepers (acting under extraordinarily restrictive ROE's) were already in place by then, and had been for over a year.
By the way, the AP's "Fact Check" missed this one.
Corrected: I originally wrote it was more than a year before the first UN ban on flights and the second, authorizing shoot-downs. In fact, I got very simple math screwed up; it was in fact less than half a year. I have rewritten that passage to elide the error.
In fact, Obama seems to be getting the "more than a year" thing from the date of the resolution authorizing boots-on-the-ground peacekeepers:
UNPROFOR was created by UN Security Council Resolution 743 on 21 February 1992.
Feb 1992 to March/April 1993 = "more than a year."
But of course he can't mention that date-- that would scotch his whole deception. If he's being precise about matters, he'd have to say "It was more than a full year before air power was authorized in Bosnia, after a full year of boots-on-the-ground peacekeepers were in place, who'd been organized rather swiftly after the outbreak of war."
Sort of undercuts his whole "I acted super-fast" comparison.
LOOK- we said it, MSNBC reported it, and that makes it holy writ.
Posted by: White House Office Of Communications at March 29, 2011 09:29 AM (cUNcx)
Posted by: Donna at March 29, 2011 09:29 AM (bdE9c)
Posted by: Captain Hate at March 29, 2011 09:30 AM (Jk7tF)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 29, 2011 09:32 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: tangonine at March 29, 2011 09:33 AM (x3YFz)
Who comes up with this crap? Is it still the beer pong team?
i.e., that gaggle of callow fuzz-nutted little weasels who cut their teeth on inventing excuses for why their homework was late.
Posted by: Wm T Sherman at March 29, 2011 09:33 AM (w41GQ)
Posted by: Bosk at March 29, 2011 09:33 AM (pUO5u)
I'm getting talking points from the White House on my Blackberry now. Valerie Jarrett said you wingers are lying liars who lie.
Posted by: Mika Blowsinski at March 29, 2011 09:34 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: Henry Garfield aka Henry Rollins at March 29, 2011 09:35 AM (HpT9p)
Posted by: sandy burger at March 29, 2011 09:35 AM (MT+0i)
It's what he says now in his network one-on-ones with the puffball throwers like Brianna Willams that will help cement the meme into the minds of the electorate.
The meme being that he is a serious commander in chief, concerned with the welfare of the people of the world. That shit sells in Madison, WI, and it will sell in Charleston, SC, as well. Bet on it.
This is all part of WTF 2012, don'tcha know?
Posted by: High Dollar Moron at March 29, 2011 09:35 AM (4sQwu)
Take your top off.
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 29, 2011 09:36 AM (pbCk0)
Posted by: nevergiveup at March 29, 2011 09:37 AM (0GFWk)
Posted by: Dumb_Blonde at March 29, 2011 09:38 AM (BXryi)
A real spammer would have gotten the link in the username right. It's a moron, all right.
Posted by: sandy burger at March 29, 2011 09:38 AM (MT+0i)
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 29, 2011 09:39 AM (pbCk0)
Posted by: runningrn at March 29, 2011 09:39 AM (ihSHD)
Posted by: nevergiveup at March 29, 2011 09:40 AM (0GFWk)
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 09:40 AM (k1rwm)
Ace - your references still do not explain the "over one year" part. I think you meant to reference UN Security Council Resolution 743, which was adopted on February 21, 1992 - not Resolution 718.
Posted by: connertown at March 29, 2011 09:41 AM (+q3dR)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 29, 2011 09:41 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: davidt at March 29, 2011 09:41 AM (JDnWx)
Posted by: runningrn at March 29, 2011 09:42 AM (ihSHD)
I can't be hearing this right. Someone correct me, this has to be all wrong.
Posted by: disgusted at March 29, 2011 09:42 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: joncelli at March 29, 2011 09:42 AM (RD7QR)
Oh, hell. They're going to continue carrying Barry's water and blaming Booosh until they're getting their heads sawed off by their new Muslim overlords.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 29, 2011 09:44 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: ace at March 29, 2011 09:44 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: davidt at March 29, 2011 09:44 AM (JDnWx)
Posted by: WishRich at March 29, 2011 09:45 AM (hdpay)
i have to be misunderstanding rush, cause i'm nauseous.
Posted by: disgusted at March 29, 2011 09:46 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Rolling Stone at March 29, 2011 09:46 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: Your Betters at March 29, 2011 09:46 AM (1fB+3)
Posted by: Jackhole at March 29, 2011 09:47 AM (+qHxi)
So even with his all his careful parsing and Ivy-League-trained wordsmithing, the delicate genius still can't avoid being a fucking liar?
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 29, 2011 09:47 AM (pbCk0)
If our State and Defense establishments learned nothing else from Somalia and Bosnia than that you cannot impose peace upon parties intent upon war unless you're able and willing to shoot first, we'll call it a valid historical lesson.
Posted by: JEM at March 29, 2011 09:47 AM (o+SC1)
Posted by: ace at March 29, 2011 09:50 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: kansas at March 29, 2011 09:51 AM (mka2b)
Posted by: Damiano at March 29, 2011 09:51 AM (3nrx7)
Posted by: polynikes at March 29, 2011 09:52 AM (iRWGZ)
Posted by: JackStraw at March 29, 2011 09:52 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 29, 2011 09:52 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Vic at March 29, 2011 09:53 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: Jackhole at March 29, 2011 09:53 AM (+qHxi)
Posted by: High Dollar Moron at March 29, 2011 02:35 PM (4sQwu)
By mid to late 2012, the Libyan adventure will be declared an unparalled success for the nuanced O team (no matter what the actual results are on the ground or what might evolve in the future there).
We will never get an accounting of the costs in either lives or dollars.
We will never know how the Frogs and Limeys were involved in the decisions to involve US forces.
The scum sucking diplomats in the UN will exert even more influence over any potential US actions anywhere in the world.
And the RINOs will give O top cover.
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 29, 2011 09:54 AM (DCpHZ)
I still don't know why the hell we are blowing stuff up in Libya. Obama's stated reason would have us bombing half a dozen countries if implemented everywhere dictators kill their citizens. He should have been all for the War in Iraq if his stated reason for striking Libya is true.
Why is he doing this? A reelection ploy? Risky. I feel like Bob Dylan's Mr. Jones. There's something going on here but I don't know what it is...
Posted by: Meremortal at March 29, 2011 09:54 AM (DffuX)
Posted by: Beagle at March 29, 2011 09:54 AM (sOtz/)
and ot: there is a video at HA under the "its come to this" that just pisses me off to no end. Govt chick there telling a guy he doesn't have the right to speak. Govt fascism in full.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 29, 2011 09:55 AM (Z1jiu)
Posted by: nevergiveup at March 29, 2011 09:56 AM (0GFWk)
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 29, 2011 09:57 AM (XBM1t)
Posted by: disgusted at March 29, 2011 09:57 AM (k1rwm)
They lie even when the truth would serve as well.
Understand that, and you understand them.
Posted by: toby928™ at March 29, 2011 09:58 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Fritz at March 29, 2011 09:58 AM (FaFnu)
Posted by: nevergiveup at March 29, 2011 09:58 AM (0GFWk)
Posted by: disgusted at March 29, 2011 09:59 AM (k1rwm)
Obama's Libya Policy, in 3 Sentences (Jim Geraghty)
"ObamaÂ’s speech included these three sentences, and it is revealing that no one within the White House found them contradictory:
'I made it clear that Gaddafi had lost the confidence of his people and the legitimacy to lead, and I said that he needed to step down from power.'
'Broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake.'
'We will deny the regime arms, cut off its supply of cash, assist the opposition, and work with other nations to hasten the day when Gaddafi leaves power.'
He must step down. We are working to drive him from power. But we are not pursuing regime change.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at March 29, 2011 10:01 AM (UO6+e)
Posted by: nevergiveup at March 29, 2011 02:56 PM (0GFWk) Ghadaffi was quoted threatening to conduct a massacre. Now it's become "Obama saved a quarter million people" I heard from Beckel. Of course a high intensity guerilla war stalemate should kill quite a few people for the next few months years who knows?
Posted by: Beagle at March 29, 2011 10:01 AM (sOtz/)
Posted by: Bosk at March 29, 2011 02:33 PM (pUO5u)
They are like gravity, always trying to keep the black man down.
Posted by: robtr at March 29, 2011 10:01 AM (MtwBb)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 29, 2011 10:02 AM (Z1jiu)
Posted by: George Castanza at March 29, 2011 10:03 AM (pdRb1)
Understand that, and you understand them.
Posted by: toby928Â™ at March 29, 2011 02:58 PM (GTbGH)
They lie because in their minds, like all good fellow travelers, the ends justify the means
Posted by: nevergiveup at March 29, 2011 02:58 PM (0GFWk)
What toby928 says is true. And you have to cut these destructive people out of your life.
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 29, 2011 10:04 AM (XBM1t)
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 29, 2011 10:04 AM (tvs2p)
Posted by: ?????????????????????? at March 29, 2011 10:05 AM (k1rwm)
Moments before a conference call with reporters was scheduled to get underway on Tuesday morning, apparently unaware that many of the reporters were already on the line, Charles Schumer of New York, the No. 3 Democrat in the Senate, began to instruct fellow senators on how to talk to reporters about the contentious budget process.
After thanking his colleagues Â— Barbara Boxer of California, Ben Cardin of Maryland, Tom Carper of Delaware and Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut Â— for doing the budget bidding for the Senate Democrats, who are facing off against the House Republicans over how spending for the rest of the fiscal year, Mr. Schumer told them to portray John Boehner of Ohio, the Speaker of the House, as painted into a box by the Tea Party, and to decry the spending cuts that he wants as extreme. Â“I always use the word extreme,Â” Mr. Schumer said, Â“That is what the caucus instructed me to use this week.Â”
A minute or two into the talking-points tutorial, though, someone apparently figured out that reporters were listening, and silence fell.
Then the conference call began in earnest, with the Democrats right on message.It's a darn good thing that our deficits aren't EXTREME.
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 29, 2011 10:06 AM (tvs2p)
Posted by: John McCain at March 29, 2011 10:06 AM (1fB+3)
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 29, 2011 03:04 PM (tvs2p)
Especially when Shillary is carrying water for the O. But there's a lot of room yet under the bus.
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 29, 2011 10:06 AM (DCpHZ)
Posted by: JEM at March 29, 2011 02:47 PM (o+SC1)
The UN fucks did a great job of rounding up the Bosnians into one place so the Serbs could blast the Allah out of them and be more efficient. Speaking of the Serbs, help a moron out: Why does the MFM hate them?
Posted by: Captain Hate at March 29, 2011 10:07 AM (Jk7tF)
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 29, 2011 03:04 PM (tvs2p)
I think it's great. Slick is trash who is barely less complicit than Obomber in the shit situation we find ourselves in.
Posted by: Captain Hate at March 29, 2011 10:10 AM (Jk7tF)
And in making his bogus claims re Bosnia what he's really doing is trying carefully to hop over the minefield of the Bush years and stand himself up next to Clinton.
"This was the right model, but I did it better".
Well, given how badly we stumbled and shambled in our Clinton-era military interventions (does the name 'Les Aspin' ring a bell?) that's a pretty damn low bar to set for yourself.
Posted by: JEM at March 29, 2011 10:11 AM (o+SC1)
Posted by: Downscaled Upscale at March 29, 2011 03:01 PM (IhHdM)
Favreau, that's the guy. Dumbass. [said in a Red Forman voiceover]
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 29, 2011 10:11 AM (XBM1t)
Posted by: Damiano at March 29, 2011 10:13 AM (3nrx7)
The reality is that air power can only do so much to avert house-to-house brutality. You can bomb the house to, ah, save the people inside. But it's not advisable. So eventually it could come down to the mission and escalation or mass slaughter and defeat. Which is how escalation happens. Or a pilot goes down and he and some rescuers are captured. We probably have some SoF doing liason with rebels somewhere, on the ground. Or the bombing is needlessly inaccurate. Combined arms works. Telling the enemy you won't use ground forces and the conditions under which you will attack makes it easy to work around. That "days, not weeks" thing needs to be hung around Obama's neck.
Posted by: Beagle at March 29, 2011 10:13 AM (sOtz/)
Posted by: ?????????????????????? at March 29, 2011 10:13 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: chillin the most at March 29, 2011 10:18 AM (6IV8T)
Posted by: TaiwanJoe at March 29, 2011 10:19 AM (PAetZ)
And A10s. I wonder why we need ground attack aircraft for policing a no-fly zone, but then again I am a moron.
Posted by: CUS at March 29, 2011 10:22 AM (wOGfT)
Wasn't it France and Britain that did the organizational grunt work (because Libya is of significant interest to them) and pretty much said, "We're going in with or without you, Barack."? Barack was on the golf course and was embarrassed into jumping into the fray (without the facts) so that he wouldn't look like a wimp. Now, as always, he's in his CYA mode straddling the fence every which way because the outcome will impact his political standing.
You can disregard any premise Obama makes by default. All those assertions about what he did or didn't do are typically nothing but.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 29, 2011 10:25 AM (swuwV)
Posted by: chillin the most at March 29, 2011 03:18 PM (6IV8T)
I didn't pay nearly as much attention to politics then and now but up until the first debate, Reagan was considered a fucking nut who nobody in their right mind would vote for and sure to be Goldwater v2.0 in terms of electoral carnage. Then Ronnie kicked dhimmie Earl's ass convincingly and came off as a genial sort with much greater competence than adultery-of-the-heart and the rout was on. The MFM still tried to paint him as a warmonger but their heart wasn't completely in it because, don't forget, Malaise was so fucking inept that Fat Turdy Kennedy mounted, not a waitress, but a primary challenge. So there were lots of people that couldn't stand the worthless fuck and the MFM could only do so much in their snivelling quisling role.
Posted by: Captain Hate at March 29, 2011 10:30 AM (Jk7tF)
Posted by: chillin the most at March 29, 2011 10:33 AM (6IV8T)
Posted by: Captain Hate at March 29, 2011 10:38 AM (Jk7tF)
Ceding American sovereignty to supranational organizations. The thinking goes, "If the international community believes and endorses X, then America should, too." Consider it the foundation to be applied on all matters and the rationale to make the U.S. subservient to the whims of globalists (Marxists) like Obama to spread the wealth.
It might seem like a stretch to use a war as the stepping stone to peaceful subservience elsewhere as policy, but note Obama's (and team's) associations and organizations like The Open Society. This war is a pretext.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 29, 2011 10:38 AM (swuwV)
Folks, as suspected. There is no plan except to bomb away and hope that something happens.
Posted by: Hosni Mubarak at March 29, 2011 10:41 AM (tvs2p)
Exactly. Reagan was the extreme, crazy cowboy nut. And he still kicked Carter's ass (with great glee from middle America outward) so hard that both he and the MFM are still smarting.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 29, 2011 10:42 AM (swuwV)
Les Aspin. That name alone is enough to dampen any Clinton nostalgia one might be tempted to feel.
Posted by: Slublog at March 29, 2011 10:45 AM (0nqdj)
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 10:45 AM (k1rwm)
More correctly, he should have said he is slightly better than a day old diaper full of shit. Or slightly less of an idiot than Jimmy Carter.
Posted by: Marcus at March 29, 2011 10:46 AM (CHrmZ)
I'm hearing a lot of bill stories lately. One of my friend told the aspirin factory bombing story the other day and one about OBL being on a plane and bill being offered him and bill saying no thanks. No one believed my friend when he said that but, he's studying for a doctorate so I'm thinking it might be true, however, I'd never heard that before.
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 10:47 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: chillin the most at March 29, 2011 03:18 PM (6IV8T)
Carter got killed by a double-double ... double digit inflation rate and double digit interest rates. We might see a double digit inflation rate by election day, but I seriously doubt there will be double digit interest rates, unless QE2 blows up the T-bill market. If that happens, nothing will save Obama. Alan Grayson could beat him in the primaries and Trig Palin could beat him in the general election.
Posted by: Hosni Mubarak at March 29, 2011 10:50 AM (tvs2p)
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 10:51 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Marcus at March 29, 2011 03:46 PM (CHrmZ)
My dog had major diarrhea this morning; I was comforted as I cleaned it up that doing that was aesthetically preferable to watching Stumblebum Ojizzmop's performance last night.
Posted by: Captain Hate at March 29, 2011 10:52 AM (Jk7tF)
Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at March 29, 2011 10:55 AM (YmPwQ)
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 03:47 PM (k1rwm)
Osama was hanging out in the Sudan, and they offered Osama to Clinton. He graciously declined. But he did take out an aspirin factory in the Sudan after the US African Embassy bombings.
Posted by: RickZ at March 29, 2011 10:55 AM (vGy3W)
Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at March 29, 2011 10:56 AM (6IReR)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at March 29, 2011 10:59 AM (Pzf4N)
You just write Chinese Embassy on the side with a Sharpie, turn the knob & bingo.
Posted by: Calvin, boy missile technician at March 29, 2011 10:59 AM (FQACB)
Posted by: JackStraw at March 29, 2011 11:01 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at March 29, 2011 11:04 AM (Pzf4N)
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 11:09 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 29, 2011 11:11 AM (TpXEI)
Anti-genocide advocate credits Obama for Libyan uprisinghttp://tinyurl.com/4bt5opq
Posted by: Marcus at March 29, 2011 11:14 AM (Imfcz)
Posted by: Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz at March 29, 2011 11:17 AM (jGsK9)
No question. There will always be useful idiots. There will always be more powerful sociopaths leading them. Every tyranny follows this method.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 29, 2011 11:17 AM (swuwV)
Posted by: runningrn at March 29, 2011 11:18 AM (ihSHD)
Oh dear God I had to walk away before I said things I might later regret.
but I'm thinking I just witnessed a tryout of some of the new talking points.
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 11:23 AM (k1rwm)
Maybe I'm crazy, but all that I'm seeing on the MFM today is criticism of the speech. Maybe the veneer is finally cracking?
The MFM covers Barry's ass better than his mom jeans do
Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 29, 2011 11:27 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Soona at March 29, 2011 11:27 AM (mXRya)
Umm. He was a Senator beforehand. If he had no way of knowing any of this before, he was not doing his job then.
Posted by: CUS at March 29, 2011 11:29 AM (wOGfT)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 29, 2011 11:33 AM (PyWLX)
Posted by: JackStraw at March 29, 2011 11:38 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Soona at March 29, 2011 04:27 PM (mXRya)
It takes a big person to be able to admit they were wrong about something. Look around you, in your own life, people rarely are willing to admit they were wrong about something even when it is obvious to everyone around them and even if they were publicly proven wrong like in a job situation. Most people find ways to circumvent the "I'm sorry" or the "wow, was I wrong". But before they even get to that point they make it a point to fight the very thought that they could be wrong.
the 52% fell hard for this guy. they went all in like never before. Since many people don't have close extended family and more than a few close friends, the campaign capitalized on this and became their friend and even he became their friend sending them emails and texts and stuff. They all now have battered woman syndrome and it's going to take a while before they realize that getting hit in the face is "not their fault". When they do, if they do, let's hope it isn't too late for this country.
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 11:40 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at March 29, 2011 11:40 AM (YmPwQ)
batchelor said last night that there was no veto from russia cause they were led to believe it would only be a no fly zone, nothing more. So under those circumstances they were willing to abstain. Batchelor used the word "mislead" when speaking about this situation and russia.
Posted by: curious at March 29, 2011 11:46 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Mike at March 29, 2011 01:02 PM (ssJdi)
Posted by: Mark E at March 29, 2011 02:45 PM (VYJC+)
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