January 30, 2008

Debate Open Thread
Update: Romney Vs. McCain On Who Flinched Less In War's Darkest Hour-- Advantage, Surpisingly Enough, Seems To Be... Romney

— Slublog

The debate is on.

Someone should tell John McCain that holding up newspaper endorsements to defend himself against charges of holding un-Republican thoughts is...unwise.

This is a really good debate... [Ace] and you should watch it in rebroadcast if you've missed it. I have to rewatch it myself to dig up the good bits.

From what I saw -- and I'm not sure I saw enough of it to judge -- but McCain seems to have dug up a damaging quote by Romney refusing to take a position on the surge in December 2006. Romney's answer seemed to be he waited for a briefing by Fred Kagan before deciding upon his position, and, immediately after hearing the plan from that surge promoter, supported it.

McCain flip-flopped on whether he would vote for his own bill should it come up again, after initially evading answering it.

Romney Response [Ace]: I just asked for a clarification of Romney's response on the quote I mentioned above; I imagine the Romney folks will have it out soon.

In the meanwhile, before they've addressed that directly, they've offered this response to McCain -- that McCain himself proposed benchmarks that would end the war, well short of the goal of victory, if not met.

In 2007, Sen. McCain Suggested Setting Benchmarks In Iraq Which, If Not Met, Might Mean The End Of Our Mission In Iraq


In January 2007, Sen. McCain Suggested Setting Benchmarks For Success In Iraq. "Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., one of the most stalwart supporters of the war in Iraq, said Thursday that he might propose that the Iraqi government meet certain benchmarks for the United States to continue its engagement. Fellow senators and independent political scientists said McCain's thinking reflected growing concerns within the Republican Party about the course of the war, and also might mark a turning point for the likely 2008 presidential contender, whose previous unconditional backing of the war may have hurt his prospects. McCain said Thursday that he hadn't yet decided on precise benchmarks. 'They'd have to be specific and they (the Iraqi government) would have to meet them.'" (Margaret Talev, "McCain Suggests Iraqi Government Meet Benchmarks," Knight Ridder, 1/25/07.)

Sen. McCain Suggested An End To The Iraq Mission If Benchmarks Weren't Met:

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., one of the most stalwart supporters of the war in Iraq, said Thursday that he might propose that the Iraqi government meet certain benchmarks for the United States to continue its engagement.

Fellow senators and independent political scientists said McCain's thinking reflected growing concerns within the Republican Party about the course of the war, and also might mark a turning point for the likely 2008 presidential contender, whose previous unconditional backing of the war may have hurt his prospects.


McCain said Thursday that he hadn't yet decided on precise benchmarks. "They'd have to be specific, and they (Iraqi government officials) would have to meet them," he said.

Asked what penalty would be imposed if Iraq failed to meet his benchmarks, he said: "I think everybody knows the consequences. Haven't met the benchmarks? Obviously, then, we're not able to complete the mission. Then you have to examine your options."

(Margaret Talev, "McCain Suggests Iraqi Government Meet Benchmarks," Knight Ridder, 1/25/07).

McCain's claim that he has been unwavering seems rather overstated. And here are his own words stating that he supported benchmarks which, if not met, would end the US engagement in Iraq.

I don't find that to be a shocking position, myself. I've always thought McCain was less a hero and more a politician -- a hero once, to be sure, but he's had plenty of time to adapt to his chosen profession of politics. And many conservatives were scrambling at that hour as to what to do in Iraq.

But it seems that his claims that Romney supported a timetable for withdrawal, or benchmarks which would compel withdrawal if not met, are entirely off-base. No statement from Romney supports such a scheme, whereas a statement from John McCain himself does.

When the war seemed about to be lost -- and his own political future imperiled -- he did talk up hard benchmarks, not soft ones used only as a guide-post. I think he was probably not giving us Straight Talk here, and was grasping for some formulation that might appease anti-war sentiment, but he did go further in his statements on this front than Romney did.

And for him to criticize Romney for hedging at the war's darkest hour when he himself hedged even more seems, well, par for the course, actuallly.

The Media Parrots... are all chirping about the McCain attack and how he alone stood up, unbowed, at the moment of truth.

They really should check their email boxes.

Incidentally, was I dreaming or did Janet Cook actually ask the sort of questions someone should ask Republicans at a Republican debate? They were good questions designed to elicit differences on issues important to Republicans.

She should be invited to do more of these.

Romney's Response: I got this from the Romney people. It just restates what I thought Romney's take was.

Fred Kagan briefed Governor Romney on the surge in early January of 2007. Gov. Romney supported the surge on the same day that President Bush announced it: Jan 10, 2007.

So McCain, who advocated benchmarks for withdrawal in January 2007, is knocking Romney for not supporting the surge affirmatively before it was actually proposed as a policy -- in December 2006.

Trust the media to continue to get this one wrong.

Hmmm... Jim Geraghty crunches the numbers and finds that rumors of Romney's political death have been greatly exaggerated. After Mega Tuesday...

That would put things at about McCain at 500+ (needing 1,191 to be the nominee), Romney at 325, Huckabee at 230 or so.

Dude. That's barely ahead at all.

In Fairness... now that I consider it, it's likely that McCain was mixing that sop to anti-war sentiment in his call for more troops. So he was saying, in total, give the surge a chance and I'll consider hard benchmarks; if it doesn't work, then we pull out.

That's an understandable way to sell it. Still, I don't think McCain is as clean on this as he seems to believe. Apparently Romney's answer to the timetables/benchmark question should have been a firm no -- this is what McCain contends -- but in fact, when asked about it himself, McCain supported hard benchmarks.

Video of the exchange at Stop the ACLU.

Posted by: Slublog at 04:14 PM | Comments (162)
Post contains 1126 words, total size 7 kb.

1 nice...now angry RINO prick...and arrogant too, for your added pleasure!

Posted by: Frank G at January 30, 2008 04:16 PM (Ydps9)

2 and Anderson Cooper wishes he'd swallowed as much cock as Tom

Posted by: Frank G at January 30, 2008 04:17 PM (Ydps9)

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at January 30, 2008 04:22 PM (UhmCj)

4 McCain?  A federalist?!?!

&**%$#@!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Slublog at January 30, 2008 04:24 PM (LOjI9)

5 Somewhere, John Maynard Keynes is smiling.

Posted by: Slublog at January 30, 2008 04:31 PM (LOjI9)

6

I hope like all get out that this is the closest that Huck ever gets to Air Force One.


 


Oh good Lord, here we go with the friggin bridges again!


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 04:31 PM (l25Zd)

7

McCain?  A federalist?!?!

&**%$#@!!!!!!!!


 


Yeah I heard that. I had a different reaction though. I thought it was funny.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 04:34 PM (f3xJa)

8 I don't get it. Romney's an attractive guy. McCain's a dessicated demented Popeye. So why don't shallow appearance oriented voters vote for the better appearance? I would.

Posted by: ricpic at January 30, 2008 04:35 PM (+++MJ)

9 What the hell?

Attack Wall Street?

Posted by: Slublog at January 30, 2008 04:37 PM (LOjI9)

10

McCain just said the base was angry at spending in 2006. He doesn't seem to care much about "the base" now.... just independents and moderates. *sigh*


Romney dug at him with the "tax cut for the rich" line.  The camera panned in and McCain looked like he wanted to slug Romney. Ha! (push his buttons, Mitt!)


Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 04:40 PM (/v6Id)

11 McCain mentioned spending in Congress was why Repubs lost in 2K6. What kind of LEADERSHIP did you show there, John? How many of those big spenders are in your corner?

Posted by: liontooth at January 30, 2008 04:41 PM (6sayt)

12

All I can figure is that it's some sort of a) a misplaced nod to McCains POW stint or b) guilt over McCains POW stint.


I give him all due credit and honor for his service and for what he endured, but that one dimension alone cannot justify his Presidency no more than it would justify the presidency of Schwarzkopf or Jessica Lynch. Yes, he is a senator and they are not but, didn't he, in part, gain that status through his heroic service?


Perhaps, the horrors that he faced as a POW are precisely what makes him too damned close to the issues of war and torture and Guantanamo to be an objective 'decider' on all matters germaine.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 04:42 PM (l25Zd)

13

There's a debate?


...well the only debate now is how much rum to put in the cola.


Posted by: TheEJS at January 30, 2008 04:42 PM (hBYdH)

14 Hahah I agree Liontooth McCain looked pissed.



Huckabee looks head and shoulders above the others in this debate so far, and Romney is my guy. Sheesh.

Posted by: Hanover at January 30, 2008 04:42 PM (FZMRv)

15 No special pathway!

Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 04:43 PM (/v6Id)

16 Mandatory health insurance from Romney.

Wall Street is evil from McCain.

McCain a federalist. LoL.

Conservatism is dead. At least for this election cycle.

Posted by: LiveFreeOrDie at January 30, 2008 04:43 PM (ccUFk)

17

well the only debate now is how much rum to put in the cola.


Well apparently there's another debate. Newcastle vs. Sierra Nevada


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 04:45 PM (f3xJa)

18 Why can't they secure the borders now? Why do we have to wait until McCain is crowned as president??? He's in the Senate, for crying out loud.

Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 04:45 PM (/v6Id)

19 Oh McCain comes from a border state? Well I used to live in that border state and he pissed us off constantly regarding immigration. Grrrrrrrrrrr!

Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 04:46 PM (f3xJa)

20 Macpain doubletalk express


Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 04:46 PM (xsAVu)

21 Mandatory health insurance from Romney.




Romney gave a good explanation. He said there were people who could afford to buy insurance but wouldn't because they knew they'd get treated for free.

Posted by: liontooth at January 30, 2008 04:46 PM (6sayt)

22 McCains answers are fucking horrible, do the idiots who voted for him
or are planning to vote for him ever even watch him speak?

Posted by: Hanover at January 30, 2008 04:47 PM (FZMRv)

23

LFOD, 'Conservatism is dead'


Did you happen to catch Hannity this afternoon? Hilarious! He spent the dfirst 15-20 minutes of his show talking about how it has become clear that America is calling for conservatives to modernize the agenda and how he has put serious thought into McCain's positions and reliazed that, maybe, McCain is right and the rest of us are wrong.


People flipped out! It was hilarious because about five minutes into it you just knew he was completely full of it.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 04:48 PM (l25Zd)

24 Where was the leadership on securing your border, John? It's only been like a screen door on a submarine for the last 20 years while you've been there.

Posted by: liontooth at January 30, 2008 04:48 PM (6sayt)

25 I don't know why ya'll are even bothering to watch this "debate."

The GOP primary is now a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. I leave it to you to determine which is Romney and which is McCain.

Posted by: H2U at January 30, 2008 04:49 PM (TZKUw)

26

They cut off Ron Paul! Did you see the look on his face? Huckabee got 2 minutes to explain the pro-life thing and O'Connor's appointment.


Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 04:49 PM (/v6Id)

27 Damn, Paul just got cut off at the knees by Gloria Vanderbilt's son.  And now McCain got all the time he wanted.

Posted by: Mark V. at January 30, 2008 04:50 PM (dZ4mk)

28

I don't know why ya'll are even bothering to watch this "debate."


Um, 'cause we're morons??


Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 04:51 PM (/v6Id)

29 This is awfull.  Republicans are going to send one of these losers against Hillary!  For those of you too young to remember, this is what it felt like in 1976, only with really shitty music playing in the backgroun.

Posted by: Hammer at January 30, 2008 04:52 PM (XWJh5)

30

Momma, you said last night that you live in Jax.


What part of town?


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 04:52 PM (l25Zd)

31 "Um, 'cause we're morons?"

And so am I! But I'm busy commenting over in the Ender's Game Video Game thread and playing CounterStrike at work.

Posted by: H2U at January 30, 2008 04:52 PM (TZKUw)

32 I love how Huckabee has made an art of dodging uncomfortable questions by tossing out a corny little joke and proceeding to answer a question that wasn't fucking asked.

Posted by: Mark V. at January 30, 2008 04:54 PM (dZ4mk)

33 If that's an art, Mark, it's paint by fucking numbers.

Posted by: H2U at January 30, 2008 04:56 PM (TZKUw)

34

This may explain the mystery of McCain.


AC Clarke's 3rd law:  "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."


Applying this to McCain, we have...


sherlock's variation: "Any sufficiently clueless politician is indistinguishable from one who apparently opposes everything he claims to stand for."


 


Posted by: sherlock at January 30, 2008 04:58 PM (ojW85)

35

Momma, you said last night that you live in Jax.


What part of town?


Are you here too? I'm near Queens Harbor.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 04:58 PM (f3xJa)

36 St. Nicholas

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:00 PM (l25Zd)

37 I didn't see it, but I've been noting Hannity isn't a national-sovereighnty conservative so much as a "free trade" even when its not free (as opposed to free enterprise, which is an entirely correct philosophy) who carries a lot of water.

A friend of mine also noticed it starting about 8 months ago. Perhaps even a bit of a corporatist bent, which, as Jonah has recently been pointing out, is a leftist ideology.

Posted by: LiveFreeOrDie at January 30, 2008 05:00 PM (ccUFk)

38 Can I scratch McCain's eyes out right now? the way he looks while romney's talking is sooo irritating!

Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:01 PM (f3xJa)

39

I wish politics was more like the WWF.


Is that... is that Fred Thompson's music?


Posted by: Jake at January 30, 2008 05:02 PM (g/d7n)

40

Fortunately, today, he was screwing with everyone but, hopefully, there were enough McCain supporters listening to get the point her was trying to make.


The left wing blogs, apparently, went hog-wild, posting about he had admitted that conservative radio is now irrelevant and that they had won the battle against the right. (I should verify that claim. I haven't been to Kos yet.)


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:04 PM (l25Zd)

41

St. Nicholas


is that in jax?


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:05 PM (f3xJa)

42 Hillary vs. McCain?

How could I support either?

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:06 PM (xsAVu)

43 Mitt is wiping the floor with McCain. McCain looks like a complete fool.

Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 05:06 PM (/v6Id)

44 Atlantic and Beach intersection

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:06 PM (l25Zd)

45 Can I start Vets for Romney? 

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:06 PM (xsAVu)

46 Timetables! Timetables!

John McStain Just went goofy in the dust up loony response of Timetables..

Oh yea.

He just tried spinnin and got a pole thru his bike wheel.

Im waiting for more from Crazy Uncle.



Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 05:07 PM (28Tcu)

47 The more I hear McCain, the more I loike Romney.

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:08 PM (xsAVu)

48 Poor Huckabee and Paul. They are getting no face time.

Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 05:08 PM (/v6Id)

49 grrrrrr

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:08 PM (xsAVu)

50

Atlantic and Beach intersection


Oh ok, my kids go to school around there,won't so where outloud, but it begins with an "N" and ends with an "E"


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:09 PM (f3xJa)

51 McCain is a prevaricator - a double-speaking prevaricator.

Posted by: franksalterego at January 30, 2008 05:09 PM (ixk9j)

52 My dad smirks like McCain. My dad smirked like that at me once.....ONCE!

Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:09 PM (f3xJa)

53 Git em MItt!

And Senator Lettuce aint done a damned thing to help this state under attack from illegals.  Total BS him sayin he is fully aware of border fence and vehicle barriers.

This guy told a crowd of workers - you wont work the fields for $50 an hr to pick lettuce. 

CRAZY UNCLE PAUL - Batterzzzzzz UP!



Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 05:10 PM (28Tcu)

54 I'm across Atllantic from B.K. and directly adjacent and behind D.A.

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:10 PM (l25Zd)

55

Atlantic and Beach intersection


Oh wait, I'm a tard, that's on the other end right?


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:11 PM (f3xJa)

56 Hillary vs. McCain?
How could I support either?

After alot of Thorizine?



Posted by: liontooth at January 30, 2008 05:11 PM (6sayt)

57 RonPaul is a whiner

Posted by: franksalterego at January 30, 2008 05:11 PM (ixk9j)

58 CRAZY UNCLE IS GOIN ALEX JONES TROOOffer!

Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 05:12 PM (28Tcu)

59 wow, Ron Paul is wacked, but he is making McCain looking very uncomfortable.

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:12 PM (xsAVu)

60 Well trip out. Some of us are trying to get a Florida moron gathering. I need  to talk to Purple Avenger about that.

Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:12 PM (f3xJa)

61 Hucksler is still Goober

Posted by: franksalterego at January 30, 2008 05:12 PM (ixk9j)

62 How much of a big baby was McCain? He just said "my good friend Governor Huckabee" referring to the attack ads by Romney. Awwww, do you need someone to fight your battles with you?

Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 05:13 PM (/v6Id)

63

Yep. Right down the road from San Marco and two miles from downtown.


QH is a nice area.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:13 PM (l25Zd)

64 Hey jmflynny, if you want you can email me at pjmomma@gmail.com

Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:14 PM (f3xJa)

65 Did Captain science crazylegs Paul fly the blimp in to the debate does anybody know?  Kucinich probably could have captained it since hes got wheel time on that spaceship of his....



Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 05:14 PM (28Tcu)

66 McCain is starting to make Hillary look like the better choice....ewwwwww

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:15 PM (xsAVu)

67

I missed American Idol for this?


Now, I'm involved in my own serious debate:


Do I keep watching the McCain/Romney show or do I turn over to Moment of Truth and watch someone else's life get flushed down the toilet?


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:17 PM (l25Zd)

68

$#&!*($)#*$@#!!!!!!!!!!!


That about sums it up for me.


Posted by: Hermit Dave at January 30, 2008 05:17 PM (Tk5HT)

69

I don't see how, after this debate, RonPaul McShucksler even compete on Super Tuesday.


Go Mitt!


Posted by: franksalterego at January 30, 2008 05:18 PM (ixk9j)

70

Moment of Truth.


At least you'll see less crap, and probably help your IQ too.


Posted by: TheEJS at January 30, 2008 05:19 PM (hBYdH)

71 McCain is a one phrase pony.....or mule....needs to be lead to a pasture..

Posted by: pdapete at January 30, 2008 05:20 PM (xsAVu)

72 Hmmm?

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:20 PM (l25Zd)

73 Better yet. The next debate should be held with all of the candidates hooked up to lie detector machines and then I would have the best of both reality shows.

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:22 PM (l25Zd)

74 Romney mentioned new paradigm, 3 dimensional chess. A secret attempt to get the trekker vote?

Posted by: liontooth at January 30, 2008 05:24 PM (6sayt)

75 DId you notice McStain scribbling his notes fervently.

I would love to check out his crib sheet after the debate.

Probably little phrases like "Get Chicken" and "pet the monkey" - crazy stuff like that - mebbe even a "DONT MAKE CREEPY LOOKS AT CRAZY UNCL SITTIN NEXT TO YA"

it translates in his head to some sort of  reminder monkey to what he is supposed to keep on point about.

SOrta like the OJ notes during the trial.  Did they ever get released publicly?

That would definitely be better time spent reading than watching Idol...

Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 05:25 PM (28Tcu)

76

Yep. Right down the road from San Marco and two miles from downtown.


I love San Marco, it and I think Riverside are the only places that remind me of California. With the little antique stores and shops and restaurants and such.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:27 PM (f3xJa)

77 Answer the fucking question Huckabee!

Posted by: Mark V. at January 30, 2008 05:27 PM (dZ4mk)

78

hey. Hey. HEY!


Stop it with the Idol=I.Q. comments, damnit.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:30 PM (l25Zd)

79 McCain's leadership: McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy

Posted by: liontooth at January 30, 2008 05:30 PM (6sayt)

80

Yep. Right down the road from San Marco and two miles from downtown.


I love San Marco, it and I think Riverside are the only places that remind me of California. With the little antique stores and shops and restaurants and such.


would you guys get a room


Posted by: ntac at January 30, 2008 05:30 PM (plhic)

81

Romney's going after the Ron Paul vote with the 3-D thing.


Huckabee is being ignored, wisely.


No knockout blow to McPain yet, he will get the MSM salad toss if this goes on as is. Hte the SOB, but he's winning the debate by not losing.


I have decided to start drinking heavily.


Posted by: Spartan Fan at January 30, 2008 05:31 PM (Yn8HA)

82

It's no longer what would Jesus do, It's What would Ronald Reagan Do?


I'm gonna get me a WWRRD bracelet.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:31 PM (f3xJa)

83

No, thank you, Ntac.


But I'm flattered you asked.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:32 PM (l25Zd)

84

would you guys get a room


hahahaha, I was wondering how long that would take.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:32 PM (f3xJa)

85 Just for that, Ntac isn't invited to the Florida moron bash.

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:34 PM (l25Zd)

86

Atlantic and Beach intersection


doesn't that pretty much happen on the entire eastern coast?


Posted by: Dave in Texas at January 30, 2008 05:34 PM (pzen5)

87 Reagan would vote for Mitt!

Posted by: franksalterego at January 30, 2008 05:36 PM (ixk9j)

88 Did RWS say she has a chat going on? Let's all go over there!

Posted by: Hongqi at January 30, 2008 05:36 PM (+WuMm)

89

HAAA!


Clever.


And, true.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:37 PM (l25Zd)

90

Just for that, Ntac isn't invited to the Florida moron bash.


That's right, cross him off the list.


doesn't that pretty much happen on the entire eastern coast?


This is Florida Dave, things just ain't natural here.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:37 PM (f3xJa)

91 Hey, a couple of us morons are from Ft. Myers.  Hold a Florida meeting in Orlando or somewhere thereabouts and we'll meet you in the middle.

Posted by: The Black Republican at January 30, 2008 05:41 PM (TJwIL)

92

Velociman is from Jax and I believe Hog on Ice Steve is in south Florida.


PajamaMomma mentioned trying to put something together and I think that's a great idea.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:42 PM (l25Zd)

93 No knockout blow from Mitt. Shit.

Posted by: Spartan Fan at January 30, 2008 05:42 PM (Yn8HA)

94 When the McCain train rolls, it rolls.

McCain made a remark about his winning in a primary where all the people voting are Republican. I think he wanted to press the point that he could win with the base and he proved that tonight.

RWS

She is having a chat by the way.

Posted by: Hongqi at January 30, 2008 05:47 PM (+WuMm)

95 I think Romney is too nice.  I can't believe the incredible smarm from McClinton.

Posted by: ATNorth at January 30, 2008 05:47 PM (/HWA9)

96 Orlando is good for me. In case you guys didn't see my email it's pjmomma@gmail.com I have a few people like nom de blog and Vmaximus that would like to meet up

Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 05:51 PM (f3xJa)

97 "The GOP primary is now a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich."
Beautifully said.

Yanno... it's stuff like that "timetable" dust-up that keeps folks voting for Paul and da Huck...

Posted by: Claire at January 30, 2008 05:53 PM (l1oyw)

98

Ace, I'll pick up your bar tab if you can make it to Florida. I wouldn't be a real moron gathering without you.


Jack Straw...might you be the same Jack Straw of Savannah?


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 05:54 PM (l25Zd)

Posted by: harrison at January 30, 2008 05:55 PM (Gv4O0)

100 Such bold statements from everyone!

Posted by: harrison at January 30, 2008 05:56 PM (Gv4O0)

101
So McCain, who advocated benchmarks for withdrawal in January 200
76.

Damn! This really is going to be a long hard slog!

Posted by: runninrebel at January 30, 2008 05:58 PM (o/KrO)

102

Political
Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal
minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick
up a turd by the clean end.




"Some may deny the surge is working, but among the terrorists there is
no doubt. Al-Qaida is on the run in Iraq and this enemy will be
defeated."
- President Bush , STOU Speech

Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 05:58 PM (28Tcu)

103 Harrison, I think we're all just a little worn out.

Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 06:03 PM (l25Zd)

104 This whole business was pretty depressing, I just wished someone would have shined. McCain is such a lame RINO <sigh>. I think I liked Mitt came out a bit better than the rest though. God know McCain has no chance against Madame Hillary or Obama in a general election.

Posted by: Marty at January 30, 2008 06:05 PM (LTtGt)

105 My friends, I can manage a nation because I can lead. Lead a small group of men under atypical circumstance with special rules of rigid conduct to do dangerous things. For patriotism. Not for that dirty, capitalistic money that drives selfish wants under a capitalist system. And not because those under my command could end up in the brig for disobeying my unique leadership. I am fully qualified because of my innate skills as a genteel communicator convincing others of the virtuous and productive path. If you disagree, my friend, well then f*ck you.

Posted by: John McCain at January 30, 2008 06:11 PM (Y0gTb)

106

Ace, I'll pick up your bar tab if you can make it to Florida. I wouldn't be a real moron gathering without you.


Hey thats funny that you said that because Vmaximus brought up us all chipping in.


Posted by: pajama momma at January 30, 2008 06:11 PM (f3xJa)

107 MexCain is a vote-whore.

Damn you, Fred.

Posted by: eman at January 30, 2008 06:12 PM (8iSfZ)

108

Meh; Romney gave a weak answer once upon a time about the surge (and it was weak), and McCain misrepresented it.


Nothing that happened tonight is going to change the race significantly.


Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 30, 2008 06:16 PM (v8vVW)

109

PM, my email was returned to me. Bad address?


I copied it from the comment.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 06:20 PM (l25Zd)

110

If you disagree, my friend, well then f*ck you.


That reminded me of FYNQ. Ha!


Do you think Senator Thompson read our comments in the thread about the Iowa debate and the FYNQ thing? That would be great.


*sniff* I miss Fred so much already. I wish he would endorse Governor Romney.


Posted by: Conservative Belle at January 30, 2008 06:36 PM (/v6Id)

111

My friends, I can manage a nation because I can lead. Lead a small group of men under atypical circumstance with special rules of rigid conduct to do dangerous things. For patriotism. Not for that dirty, capitalistic money that drives selfish wants under a capitalist system. And not because those under my command could end up in the brig for disobeying my unique leadership. I am fully qualified because of my innate skills as a genteel communicator convincing others of the virtuous and productive path. If you disagree, my friend, well then f*ck you.


#106, it's like you were directly channeling McCain's mind-thoughts there and captured his essential attitude.


Posted by: Maetenloch at January 30, 2008 06:47 PM (HHAbw)

112 Conservative Belle,

Drat. I forgot about FYNQ. Hardly seems possible since it was up there with "And you know benefits most?" for a time. Good times.

It was reported Fred! read the blog, so I'm guessing at least someone tracked the content here regularly. Imagine Fred! following the advice of this asylum. That would've be fun. And productive.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 30, 2008 06:50 PM (Y0gTb)

113 Ill chip in for Aces COllege fund bar tab - we need a repost of how hammered you get and perhaps liveblog it... although that wont be a big sell working the ladies with the laptop unless you hook it with a shotgun bandolier or something.

How about scribble notes on AoS lifestyle bar slam on bar napkins - then figger em out later on our behalf.

Contributions to Seperate fund on PayPal donations?  AoS Bartab and Barbary Pirate Babe Fund?  Must know SCUBA.

Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 06:52 PM (28Tcu)

114 I am glad I live in NY which is as blue as a state can be. This way if McCain is nominated, it won't matter that I am not going to vote for him.

Which nut job are the Libertarians nominating this year?  I am not really interested in legalizing drugs but it's beats voting for McCain.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 30, 2008 06:52 PM (hlYel)

115

Sigh. I miss Fred! too. He may have had no chance, but who the hell cares when these are the alternative?


This has left me with a bad taste.


I know! - I need a lemon.


Oh.


 


Posted by: davis,br at January 30, 2008 06:54 PM (q4usA)

116 haha, MexiCain.  tres droll

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 30, 2008 06:56 PM (sJxlf)

117

I'm afraid to venture into RWS territory to read the McCainster's take on the debate.


Any brave souls amongst us?


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 06:59 PM (l25Zd)

118 When you guys talk about the "base" of the party is that the less than 15% who wanted Fred! ?

Posted by: John Ryan at January 30, 2008 07:03 PM (TcoRJ)

119

I have an open question: Exactly what brand of leadership is it to support someone elses plan? Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to have supported the surge and both Romney and McCain did, however, the actual leadership was that of Bush for the decision to change tactics, the generals that suggested it to Bush and Petreaus for crafting the plan. I'm sorry, but Bush deserves the kudos here.


If merely "supporting" a plan during a unpopular time is leadership then is McCain going to point out his leadership on the comprehensive immigration reform plan, which he championed just as ardently?


 


As a total add on, I hate the Huckster but he nailed the Reagan endorsement question: "I can't say who Regan would endorse, but i know I endorse him." Of course, that clashes with "the Reagan coalition is dead" but it was a damn snappy answer.  I'll give him style points, but that's it.


Posted by: Rob B at January 30, 2008 07:06 PM (DPEbO)

120

I wanted Fred. Does that make me 'base', I don't know.


Why? Because the definition seems to be a moving target these days and what once was the base seems to be shrinking before our eyes.


It's as if it's become trendy to declare oneself a Republican without having any damned idea what the ideaology is.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 07:08 PM (l25Zd)

121 jmflynny, He's refering to that 15% that actually like the whole Republican platform instead of treating it like an all you can eat sushi bar.

Posted by: Rob B at January 30, 2008 07:11 PM (DPEbO)

122

I know, I was being sarcastic, but I love your sushi bar analogy.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 07:17 PM (l25Zd)

123 After this debate, I'm not sure I could vote for McCain if he were the nominee.

Class warfare, lies about his record and global warming hysteria?

Has it ever occurred to The Maverick™ that he needs the votes of actual Republicans to win a general election? 

Posted by: Slublog at January 30, 2008 07:22 PM (LOjI9)

124

Maverick was reckless, and as a consequence, Goose lost his life.


That's all I need to know.


Posted by: jmflynny at January 30, 2008 07:23 PM (l25Zd)

125 Rob B.

Exactly the point.

McStain is taking credit for listening to Gen Petraeus spelling out his plan and Senator lettuce nodded yes to him.

TUrned and talked timetables across aisle with dhimmies for the reach around.

But who is John fool in with.

He didnt write the Surge plan.

AS did not Cankles.  I was glad to see her clap - or got the clap - during SOTU speech when Pres Bush spoke of AMerican success.

Osama Obama staid stern in chair.  ALbeit he has disagreed with war from start ... BUt, that said....

Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 07:27 PM (28Tcu)

126 SLublog
Has it ever occurred to The Maverick™ that he needs the votes of actual Republicans to win a general election? 



McStain is counting on the surge from the south to give him props for his open border stance - those whom he would give drivers license to in support of motor voter illegals.
NOt surprised Arnold s backing him.  Kennedys behind him.

But think of ramifications if we can get these assclown dinosaurs out of politics so our children dont have to suffer under their big gov Pork no mas.

Posted by: BeanAZ at January 30, 2008 07:32 PM (28Tcu)

127 I could be remembering wrong, and I'm too lazy to Google, but wasn't Johnny Mac advocating more of an occupying force, before the surge?

Posted by: franklinstein at January 30, 2008 07:40 PM (ilnAR)

128

I am sorry, I am still drunk.  Nelson Rockerfellor for president???


Let's not let this happen.  I see Rock, er McRhino, at the convention, like 64, and we say FMBD, that would me, Fuck me big daddy!


It could happen? 


Pray everyday.  And oh by the way, Huck you aren't going to be anybodys VP.  Dickhead.


kemp


 


Posted by: kempermanx at January 30, 2008 07:47 PM (iLWmI)

129

Watching MKH talk about escorts on Fox is...interesting.


Posted by: Francase at January 30, 2008 07:52 PM (jr6m8)

130

A Second post.  Drunk is good and sometimes AoS readers get some real information


Last summer my bank friends, I live in CLT, asked me to come to a private McRino lunch.  BOTH banks  in CLT are supporting this dickhead, I am amazed, since one  is usually a demo bank.  I declined, since I thought this dickhead had not chance of winning.  So WTF did they know?


Scary!!


 


 


Posted by: kempermanx at January 30, 2008 07:57 PM (iLWmI)

131

SLublog

Has it ever occurred to The Maverick™ that he needs the votes of actual Republicans to win a general election? 


And he's getting Republican votes - it's not all democrats and independents crossing over. Most GOP voters are not political junkies and don't follow policy debates very closely, if at all. They're voting for McCain because of his name recognition and his narrative. And the depressing part is that that'll probably be enough to give him the nomination.


Posted by: Maetenloch at January 30, 2008 08:17 PM (pc3z1)

132

This is off topic...but does anyone know how I can install east asian language files / japanese unicode on Windows XP if I don't have the CD?


Like...can I download just the damn language files and manually point it? Something about being in SP1 (except I can't get that unpacked, just as an executable)?


Posted by: Entropy at January 30, 2008 08:18 PM (HgAV0)

133

Rage Boy has credibility on military strategy because he got shot down, captured and tortured as a POW for years?  How does that follow, other than in Liberal feely-world?


From what I have read recently, GWB had a bit more to do with the surge than just looking around the table and counting hands in the air.


There are two levels of leadership.  There is the level where you have the ability and skill to understand what strategy will work, how to implement it, and how to sell that implementation.  Then there is the ability to know what handfull of the 47 strategies being proposed at any one time make sense, how to use the skills of your staff to winnow those down to the potential winners, and then how to listen to your own gut to decide which one you are going to put your ass (and the assess of thousands of others, of course) on the line for.


Petraeus has level 1.   Bush has level 2.


McCain does not have 2, and does not have the ego-control to allow him to listen to the guy that has 1.


Next!! 


Posted by: sherlock at January 30, 2008 08:59 PM (ojW85)

134 If someone has access to the Romney camp type they need to load them with some ammo to point out that Bush and Petreaus showed leadership and that they deserve the credit for what they did. I think dinging him, even if indirectly on his defense bona fides, will remind people that as a congressman McFlurry hasn't been in the position to lead anything. The POTUS and the DOD does that.

Posted by: Rob B at January 31, 2008 03:24 AM (DPEbO)

135

CNN quote: "While most analysts said Romney and Huckabee failed to score any major moments that could derail McCain's momentum, Schneider said Huckabee had the best performance of the three."


WHAT?


(TimeWarner installation tomorrow)


Posted by: maverick muse at January 31, 2008 04:03 AM (ODnqn)

136

sherlock: "How does that follow, other than in Liberal feely-world?"


Yesterday, Hannity surmised that in order to be relevant any longer, conservatives must convert into Liberal feely-world voters.


If salt loses its savor....


Posted by: maverick muse at January 31, 2008 04:06 AM (ODnqn)

137

Maetenloch quoting Slublog.


"Wouldn't it be nice" if the angry voters denied their candidate unite to reform the GOP Primaries? Slublog makes the case to maintain a 3 month period, one month per 1/3 US state/delegate vote. I tend to agree with a caller who asked Hannity yesterday, why not a US Primary on one day just as in the general election? It's back to basics to fix the political machine screwing us.


New millenium for a United Primary. No more favoritism by chronology. First come only serve ends this year. Next time, all candidates on the single date ballot. Citizen ID required for GOP registration. Discard the corruptable machine record for the paper & pen ballot trail. 


Posted by: maverick muse at January 31, 2008 04:28 AM (ODnqn)

138 Cock.

Posted by: ergastularius (stage name: Catcher's Mitt) at January 31, 2008 08:25 AM (G1OE+)

139 How many times have they banned me?

A few, yeah...so...

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:33 AM (G1OE+)

140 You've been banned a number of times. Go away

Posted by: ergastularius (Stage name: Multiple Banned Boy) at January 31, 2008 08:34 AM (G1OE+)

141 You prefer your circle-jerk, I know.

What a coincidence. So do I!

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:41 AM (G1OE+)

142 You keep posting it.

I'll keep deleting it.

You've been banned, cock-boy. Accept that reality and find another blog to troll.

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:41 AM (G1OE+)

143 Seriously, let me post as a guest-blogger.

Hell will have to freeze over first, the Cubs would have to win the world series and you'd have to kiss your first girl.

So basically, it's not going to happen.

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:47 AM (G1OE+)

144 I'm a troll bitch.

Which is worse than being just a troll, or just a bitch.

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:48 AM (G1OE+)

145 Seriously, let me post a couple. See how it goes.

How about...um...no

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:49 AM (G1OE+)

146 You like puppies?

I like puppies.

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:50 AM (G1OE+)

147 BTW. I'm a woman, lawraw.

Mommy?

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:51 AM (G1OE+)

148 Persistence will get you nowhere.

Oh, and I think George W. Bush is dreamy.

Posted by: ergastularius at January 31, 2008 08:53 AM (G1OE+)

149

Did anybody notice how tiny the desks were the candidates were sitting behind? They made the candidates look like little boys, legs sticking out from underneath like toothpicks.


I'm guessing that at tonight's Democrat debate, Hillary and Obama will both be behind something tall and solid... something.... presidential.


 


Posted by: Average Jane at January 31, 2008 09:12 AM (jb3h0)

150

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151

doh

 

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153

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