April 30, 2009

Chrysler Announces They're Filing for Bankruptcy (genghis)
— Open Blog

Just reported on Fox News about a minute ago. It's not really "breaking" news since it was widely expected they'd take this path. More details as they are released.

Update: CNN story here.

Posted by: Open Blog at 03:17 AM | Comments (213)
Post contains 47 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Hmmm.

One company -not- controlled by Obama?

Posted by: memomachine at April 30, 2009 03:19 AM (WXcTw)

2 Good thing we gave them a metric fuckton of cash so this wouldn't happen. Otherwise they might have gone bankrupt or something.

Posted by: Entropy at April 30, 2009 03:20 AM (m6c4H)

3 So when are they gonna trot out the Obamobile?

Oh, that's Government Motors new model...


Posted by: torabora at April 30, 2009 03:23 AM (yPznK)

4 No he's in on the ground floor of this one.

Posted by: MES41067 at April 30, 2009 03:23 AM (VmAoa)

5

"Posted by guest  Apr 30, 2009 9:16AM  So let me get this straight - the UAW, unsecured creditors, get 55% of the company and secured debt holders get 10% of a company ran by the UAW (which is basically worth zero point nada)? And somehow debtholders are being scolded for not going along with this flagrant violation of contract and bankruptcy law? Why do we even have a judicial system anyway?"  http://tinyurl.com/c5hwmf

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 03:25 AM (zplc6)

6 Barry and his goon squad are already out blaming three hedge funds for not doing what is "right " for the country. Won't be long until these hedge funds feel the wrath of Barry.

Posted by: Buck Ofama at April 30, 2009 03:26 AM (eu7/X)

7

Who says Barry's not in charge at Chrysler?

April 30 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC will proceed today with a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing to reorganize into a more viable carmaker, an Obama administration official said.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that the failure of some small creditors to agree to a final settlement is prompting the bankruptcy option. President Barack Obama will speak at noon New York time on the auto industry, the White House said in a statement today.

The president’s staff plans to use the filing to pave the way for Fiat Spa to take a 20 percent stake in the Auburn Hills, Michigan-based automaker, people familiar with the situation said. If Chrysler has to go through bankruptcy, it won’t take long, Obama said yesterday.

 

Hugo Obama thinks he runs every company now.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 30, 2009 03:26 AM (1Jaio)

8

I would comment on this, but I have no idea where Crysler is going. I suspect the boneyard. They should have filed months ago, along with GM. Before wasting billions in tazpayer money. Good money after bad, with no way to succeed.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 03:26 AM (OlN4e)

9

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that the failure of some small creditors to agree to a final settlement is prompting the bankruptcy option. President Barack Obama will speak at noon New York time on the auto industry, the White House said in a statement today.

 

I'd sooner listen to a mule fart. Just as informative, and less offensive.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 03:28 AM (OlN4e)

10 (blank)

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 03:32 AM (1XErj)

11

Funny how it happened the day after the enchanting 100th day news conference.

 

Posted by: Girdyourloins! at April 30, 2009 03:34 AM (3PqHz)

12 What sort of car will the Chrysler Michelle be? Perhaps a muscle car - a gas guzzler with four on the floor and a big butt. Sleeveless.
GM and Chrysler, under the new ownership structure devised by the President, will not be companies of any impact. They may as well build Michelles, or Sashas, or Edsels, for that matter.
GM will also cut 21,000 hourly jobs in the U.S. by 2010 — 7,000 more than what the company outlined just two months ago.
GM and Chrysler will be kept alive only so that they can launder money on behalf of the federal government. Rather than having the federal government bail out the unions and their unsustainable legacy costs directly if the companies were allowed to fail, better to keep the car companies barely alive and funnel the cash through them. The companies pay the cost of benefits, so taxpayers don’t realize that we’re footing the bill.
That’s right. The UAW will have a controlling interest in Chrysler while FIAT gets a one-third interest. At GM, things will be worse.
Combined, the union and government would own 89 percent of the century-old automaker, which has been bleeding red ink and is saddled with more than $62 billion in debt.
The government is controlled by Democrats, who have long been partners with the unions. The Obama administration and the Democrats are the same thing.
Who’ll be designing the cars? Why not Barack himself, who will be well positioned to instruct the manufacturers on mileage requirements, design features, and even the model names.

Posted by: sickinmass at April 30, 2009 03:34 AM (/i4dU)

13 With the 15th choice in the 2009 draft, the Cleveland Browns take Janet Napolitano, nose tackle, Arizona.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 03:35 AM (VW9/y)

14 And POOF, the money is gone, vanished into thin air!

Posted by: B.0. the magician at April 30, 2009 03:35 AM (/Mla1)

15

13 With the 15th choice in the 2009 draft, the Cleveland Browns take Janet Napolitano, nose tackle, Arizona.

Wow, the Browns may actually have a shot this year.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 03:37 AM (/Mla1)

16 Vanished into thin air?!?!?!?!!! We saved the UAW damnit!

Posted by: In Exile at April 30, 2009 03:37 AM (8nOHU)

17 Long expected, because if there were ever a foreign car company that Americans admire and respect, it is/was Fiat...........

Posted by: Techie at April 30, 2009 03:37 AM (QYuCD)

18 I am in the market for a new car, and I have now decided to rule out any purchase from any automaker who is now affiliated with Bammy's admin.  I don't care how well the big 3 are now making cars, I will not support what is going on with our goverment and the private sector.  Didn't the Brits do this back in the 70s and the product they cranked out was pure shit? 

Posted by: Ken at April 30, 2009 03:37 AM (3rbzb)

19 This isn't a bankruptcy, it's a seizing and redistribution of assets.  Straight out of the Marxist playbook.

The U.S. as we all knew it has ceased to exist, we're now a communist state.

Posted by: Dang Straights at April 30, 2009 03:37 AM (Haq+B)

20 President Barack Obama will speak at noon New York time?  What is New York time? Does each state have it own time now?

Posted by: shunha7878 at April 30, 2009 03:39 AM (/DeBx)

21 "posted by chernivik Apr 30, 2009 9:32AM @ 9:16AM --It seems we'll now see a test of the courts' willingness to protect a minority's rights in law against popular opinion and political pressure."  "Posted by guest Apr 30, 2009 9:32AM 2 - still think gubment plays by the rules - eh? Why bother with DIP financing and cross-collateralization when you can just write an "emergency" bill to kill section 725" http://tinyurl.com/c5hwmf.

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 03:39 AM (zplc6)

22 OT There's a post at hot air reporting how the State Department's website and press releases detailing Sec. Clinton's travels to FOREIGN countries include.....Texas. I'm sure that'll make many Lone Star State residents happy. Really no need to secede now, is there?

Posted by: Dave at April 30, 2009 03:41 AM (Xm1aB)

23 What is Wall St. thinking?  Dow Chemical reports 1Q profit drop of 90+%, consumer spending dropped and ExxonMobil 1Q profit fell ~50%, and now we hear about Chrysler biting the big one.

Dow up 100???  What do they know that we don't?

Posted by: Techie at April 30, 2009 03:43 AM (QYuCD)

24

Dow up 100???  What do they know that we don't?

 

Barry probably just dumped a ton of taxpayer money into it.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 03:44 AM (/Mla1)

25 "23 What is Wall St. thinking?  Dow Chemical reports 1Q profit drop of 90+%, consumer spending dropped and ExxonMobil 1Q profit fell ~50%, and now we hear about Chrysler biting the big one.

Dow up 100???  What do they know that we don't?

Posted by: Techie at April 30, 2009 08:43 AM (QYuCD)"

Yesterday CNBC trotted out a guy who siad "in this market, don't fight the tape"

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 03:45 AM (zplc6)

26

Chrysler is waiting for Big Daddy's okay

Chrysler is expecting the Obama administration to say today whether the company has met all of its requirements to go ahead with the proposed Fiat alliance with Fiat, Chief Executive Officer Robert Nardelli said in a note to employees.

 

“I don’t think there should be a stream of subsidies to automakers, but helping them to restructure now,” when sales have collapsed, is “realistic,” Obama said.

 

It's realistic for complete control there Hugo.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 30, 2009 03:46 AM (1Jaio)

27

19This isn't a bankruptcy, it's a seizing and redistribution of assets.  Straight out of the Marxist playbook.

The U.S. as we all knew it has ceased to exist, we're now a communist state.

Mr. Straights, I don't think you're quite on board yet with the new situation. Now if you'll please accompany me, we've set up a new blog where we can, shall we say, "adjust" your way of thinking on these matters.

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 03:46 AM (1XErj)

28

Can someone tell me again what we got for the Billions of taxpayer dollars we have dumped into this money pit?

Is anyone doing a pool on when GM follows suit? I'll  take three weeks from next tuesday...

Posted by: Gerry Owen at April 30, 2009 03:48 AM (oGv5F)

29

genghis!

Good to see you are alive and at your keyboard.  Some of us were worried when you failed to show last night.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at April 30, 2009 03:51 AM (wgLRl)

30

April 30 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. consumer spending declined more than forecast in March after a two-month spurt, ending an unexpectedly strong quarter on a soft note and signaling any economic recovery will be gradual.

 

 

I like how Bloomberg sticks to the script. Consumer spending down more than expect? Bloomberg's answer: Barry's recovery will be gradual. If it was a year ago then the story would be how the US was never getting out of the depression that Bush created.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 30, 2009 03:51 AM (1Jaio)

31 GM bankrupcy will be the day after the 200th day press conference....

Posted by: Girdyourloins! at April 30, 2009 03:52 AM (3PqHz)

32 Now fellers, you just don't remember those those special cars from gubmint factories - like the Yugo.  Like Iacocca might say: "If you can find another car - buy it."

Posted by: Robert at April 30, 2009 03:53 AM (cd6Ip)

33 Funny that it took the union only two days after taking over the company to drive it into bankruptcy.

Posted by: A Lock of Che Guevara's Chest Hair at April 30, 2009 03:53 AM (/Pw+r)

34 Heck GM should just throw it in now, maybe tomorrow?

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 03:53 AM (zplc6)

35 A White House spokesman said  "heir failure to act in either their own economic interest or the national interest..."

Interesting, now the President is criticizing private citizens for their own economic acts.  No totalitarian sentiments there.  Nope, none at all.

Posted by: ThomasD at April 30, 2009 03:53 AM (9DNw+)

36 O/T:  So the unions gave more money in contributions than the hedgies?

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 03:54 AM (zplc6)

37 "Good thing we gave them a metric fuckton of cash so this wouldn't happen. " Yeah, and I still remember when questions were raised about the possibility of this happening back in - when was it? November? I didn't listen to the answers coming from the left, because I never do, but I DO recall the hail of elbows and fists, accompanied by a chorus of screams and curses in NRO, as I was "educated" by those who know so much that "It's not just the employees of the automakers! Every job supports 3 other jobs in other companies that supply parts and services! It will be national disaster! DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING???" Thanks a lot, smartasses.

Posted by: Dr Mabuse at April 30, 2009 03:55 AM (AVYqB)

38 The reasoin Bush gave billions to GM and Chrysler was so that Obama couldn't claim that Bush caused them to go bankrupt. (Did Obama give them even more? I forget.) I have to say that might be money well spent, the way Obama tries to claim Bush is responsible for the waffles he ordered this morning.

Posted by: Sexypig at April 30, 2009 03:55 AM (svl8C)

39 When you have to be bailed out by the Italians, you are well and truly fucked.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 03:56 AM (VW9/y)

40 Good, at least a patina of normal capitalism is still in place--assuming it's really happening, and this is not a tactic to scare certain people into giving more $.  Does this mean the UAW isn't going to play with itself?  That's too bad, on some level...

Posted by: flooflyparisparamus at April 30, 2009 03:56 AM (LLc3+)

41

On Fiat, at my last command in Italy, our partol cars were Fiat Puntos.  Small, no power, but okay I guess. Some of the midsize Fiats are actually pretty damn nice, like cheap BMWs.

I want a Fiat Unicorn, you know they're coming.

Posted by: navycopjoejoe at April 30, 2009 03:57 AM (uRslG)

42 I don't know if it was the smart decision, but it's a decision I can certainly understand, sexypig

Posted by: Techie at April 30, 2009 03:57 AM (QYuCD)

43

If Barry wanted to act in the "national interest", he would already have announced his resignation. And rebuffed the American Electorate for being fools, idiots, and wanting to be taken care of by someone else. We have become a nation of little children looking for surrrogate parents to take care of us.

/fuck that

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 03:58 AM (OlN4e)

44 Are there any good, non-U.S. controlled islands that are friendly to outsiders that I can escape to?  One that has a "live & let live" attitude, like one of these tax havens I hear so much about?  But one I can find work on, as I'm not ready to retire yet.  I'm seriously considering bailing, while I still have some money to leave with.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 04:01 AM (/Mla1)

45 I'm fascinated to see what's going to happen to the UAW contracts.

Posted by: alexthechick at April 30, 2009 04:01 AM (SHHaV)

46 Anyone got the figures on how much $$ Chrysler received alone in bailout?

Posted by: RiteWingFascist at April 30, 2009 04:01 AM (1hSHv)

47 Woo hoo, I can hardly wait to buy a UAW engineered car. 

/sarc

At least if we simply set money on fire, we could derive some heat from it, now it's just going to go up in smoke.  The vanishing dollar, its like magic, but without the entertainment.

Posted by: Dan F at April 30, 2009 04:02 AM (X69s8)

48 Man, I really liked that new Dodge Challenger, too.

Oh well.

Posted by: apotheosis at April 30, 2009 04:03 AM (xWk3U)

49 Do I still have to make my Caliber payments? Also, I think that since Pontiac doesn't exist anymore, the loan on my G6 should not exist, too.  

Posted by: estee at April 30, 2009 04:04 AM (xlYqZ)

50 Funny that it took the union only two days after taking over the company to drive it into bankruptcy.


The unions haven't taken over Chrysler or GM. Chrysler filed bankruptcy because bond holders rejected that deal, which was orchestrated by Obama.  I think that bankruptcy is the best chance now for both Chrysler and GM to avoid complete nationalization or ownership by the UAW.

Posted by: slatz at April 30, 2009 04:05 AM (mE0Rl)

51 The WH is calling the hedgies "un American?"  Didn't those guys step into the buringing building when everyone was running the other way?

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 04:06 AM (zplc6)

52 46 Anyone got the figures on how much $$ Chrysler received alone in bailout?

I don't have an exact accounting but I think it was around $4 billion, which was just below the threshold set in the failed "bonus bill" by Congress.  (They tailored the amount of the bill to ensure that Chrysler was ignored when it came to bonus outrage.)

Since then, they turned down at least $750 million in loans because of bonus concerns for execs.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 30, 2009 04:06 AM (ixT7j)

53 So why hasn't this auto stuff turned into a debate on unions?  It's not even on the radar.  Toyota seems to be doing well, they're not unionized, does a light not go off inside peoples' heads?

Unions should be allowed, I suppose, and managers should be allowed to tell them to go fuck themselves.  Why in the hell are we handicapping businesses with 1930s era union legislation?  It is wholly unnecessary, there is enough workplace legislation to protect workers these days.  So where is the debate on unions?

Toyota was offered $800 million by Alabama to set up a plant there.  They went to Ontario, Canada, instead, who were only offering $400 million.  Healthcare only explains part of it, demographics explains the rest.

On a per-hour basis French workers are more productive than American workers.  That really shouldn't be the case folks.  Time to go union bustin'.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 04:07 AM (DJjeC)

54 Am I still alive?

Posted by: Lee Iacocca at April 30, 2009 04:08 AM (LLc3+)

55 Ya, the CNN article says $4Billion, but here is a fucking kicker: Chrysler asked Treasury for $6 billion in additional help in order to stay in business and weather the current crisis. But that amount assumed that Chrysler would not need to file for bankruptcy. It is possible that even more federal help may be required to fund operations during a bankruptcy reorganization. So its going to cost us to keep them out of bankruptcy, then cost us when they go in to it anyway.

Posted by: RiteWingFascist at April 30, 2009 04:09 AM (1hSHv)

56

Where are T dub & honest clod?

I need them to explain to me the magnificent manner in which The Won has dealt with this problem.

Posted by: Tinian at April 30, 2009 04:10 AM (70sTG)

57 I have yet to meet a person who has actually bought a Chrysler. Seriously. I have no idea who buys those cars, and clearly not many people do. I don't mean that as snark.

Posted by: Tommy V at April 30, 2009 04:11 AM (/PwQS)

58 I just can't wait for the UAW to sit down at the table to renegotiate a contract with the UAW. Playing with themselves.

Posted by: Roy at April 30, 2009 04:11 AM (cB77O)

59

56

Where are T dub & honest clod?

I need them to explain to me the magnificent manner in which The Won has dealt with this problem.

I'll stand in for them for a moment...

"Bush got us into this mess, if Obama wouldn't have stepped in when he did things would be even worse.  If you weren't a redneck wingnut knuckledragger you'd understand."

Notice I didn't actually present any facts while blindly following The Won, and I closed out the sentence by dismissing your opinion.  Seem accurate?

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 04:13 AM (/Mla1)

60

On a per-hour basis French workers are more productive than American workers.  That really shouldn't be the case folks.

Don't worry.  It isn't.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 04:16 AM (VW9/y)

61

We will need more cars now that Biden has warned everyone not to take subways, planes, trains......

 

Posted by: Girdyourloins! at April 30, 2009 04:17 AM (3PqHz)

62 Obama gave a little speech about how the Government was going to back GMs warranties.  Does that apply to Chrysler?

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 04:17 AM (L64A6)

63

57 I have yet to meet a person who has actually bought a Chrysler.

Seriously. I have no idea who buys those cars, and clearly not many people do.

I don't mean that as snark.

 

There has been at least one jeep in my driveway since 1983. And there have been as many as three. Jeep is a Crysler product.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 04:18 AM (OlN4e)

64 "61

We will need more cars now that Biden has warned everyone not to take subways, planes, trains......

 

Posted by: Girdyourloins! at April 30, 2009 09:17 AM (3PqHz)"

Posted that to another thread, so my friends aren't playing me?  it's true?

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 04:18 AM (zplc6)

65 But...but....I thought they were too big to fail?

Posted by: scout finch at April 30, 2009 04:19 AM (kua3P)

66 RiteWingFascist @ 55

So its going to cost us to keep them out of bankruptcy, then cost us when they go in to it anyway.

Yes, now shut up

Posted by: Barack Iacoca at April 30, 2009 04:20 AM (uj/0b)

67 maddog,

We are on Jeep number three.  No complaints here other than a pretty bad blind spot in the '07 Grand Cherokee.

Posted by: scout finch at April 30, 2009 04:21 AM (kua3P)

68 Perhaps we should lower our deductions so we pay more income tax up front.  It would be a sad thing to be counting on a big refund and find out all you get is credit toward the new Michelle GT, "Gun Thing."

Posted by: publicserf at April 30, 2009 04:21 AM (loRWh)

69 Drudge has a article up about MSNBC not being able to cover the rent at their Washington office.  Another bailout coming?

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 04:21 AM (L64A6)

70 Jeeps sell fairly well, I thought.

Posted by: Techie at April 30, 2009 04:21 AM (QYuCD)

71

Posted that to another thread, so my friends aren't playing me?  it's true?

http://tinyurl.com/dktomr

Yes, but he's backtracked.  And much of what he said originally was unintelligible anyways.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 04:22 AM (/Mla1)

72 "After a month of tireless negotiations, the Administration went into yesterday afternoon with the full support of Chrysler's key stakeholders, including the [United Auto Workers union] and the largest creditors. That support remains," said an administration official. - CNN Who are the "largest creditors"? According to the story, they include JPMorgan and Citigroup. So, isn't it a redundancy then to list "the Administration" and "the largest creditors" separately?

Posted by: gm at April 30, 2009 04:22 AM (koK9l)

73 We can track how much of a bully pulpit Biden has by watching airline stocks today. 

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 04:24 AM (L64A6)

74 Jeeps do sell fairly well.  With any more government intervention, look for them to be on the brand chopping block.  They're "ecologically unsound" as Gunny Highway would have put it, 

Posted by: sears poncho at April 30, 2009 04:24 AM (uj/0b)

75 I'm not sure on specifics of who those creditors are, but the "largest creditors" had one of those "Offer you can't refuse" meetings with Geithner lately where he tried to get them to completely write off Chrysler's debts of around $20 billion to them.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 30, 2009 04:25 AM (ixT7j)

76 Jean,

Drudge has a article up about MSNBC not being able to cover the rent at their Washington office.  Another bailout coming?

John F-ing Kerry will get to it as soon as he bails out the Boston Globe

Posted by: scout finch at April 30, 2009 04:26 AM (kua3P)

77 #48, Apoth...I was on the list to get a new six speed SRT/8. All the Challengers out now are automatics...I guess I could buy the Grand Cherokee SRT/8...but the asshole but the exhaust in to middle of the rear valance so I can't tow a bicycle with it..God how I miss my Grand Cherokee with the 360/5.9!!!

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 04:28 AM (9bJJQ)

78

I have yet to meet a person who has actually bought a Chrysler.
We had a Chrysler Town & Country mini-van and it never gave us a problem. I loved it. We traded it for a Dodge Caliber a couple years ago, and so far I love the Caliber too (although I'd glady swap it for a Ford Edge).  Jeep is part of Chrysler, too, as are Dodge Ram trucks and I see a lot of those.  

Posted by: estee at April 30, 2009 04:28 AM (xlYqZ)

79

On a per-hour basis French workers are more productive than American workers.  That really shouldn't be the case folks.

Don't worry.  It isn't.

Don't EVER backtalk Adriana Lima, she does her homework and you can take what she says to the bank.  It's $52.70 per hour for a French worker and $52.40 for an American, as of 2007, no PPP faggotry.  Sauce:  OECD.  I'm surprised to see the gap has shrunk to virtually nil, though, France has been more productive for many years.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 04:29 AM (DJjeC)

80 Yeah, those French whorehouses can really crank through the johns.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 04:32 AM (OlN4e)

81 http://tinyurl.com/dldr7m  Biden and he doesn't appear to be sanitized yet.

Posted by: ok ok at April 30, 2009 04:32 AM (zplc6)

82 So our Government, Biden, says we shouldn't fly or ride our own subways; but crossing the border is OK.


Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 04:34 AM (L64A6)

83 If there are any bankruptcy lawyers present, perhaps you could clarify, however, in bankruptcy, do not the bondholders rank ahead of all other parties?  Prior to today, in attempts to restructure, the bondholders were offered something in the range of 10cents on the dollar.  Why in hell would they agree to proceed with a restructuring now that would permit the union or Fiat to benefit at their expense.  If I were offering them advice, I would say let the shit fly, wind this sucker up and redistrubute firesale funds at the end of the day.  I guarantee it would end up being more than 10cents/dollar.  Oh, and by the way, whatevery taxpayer money in in that black hole is worth about the same as rusted LeBaron.

Posted by: Syd B. at April 30, 2009 04:34 AM (phzv/)

84 Anyone got a link on that article about MSNBC and their DC office mentioned earlier?

I looked on Drudge and couldn't find it.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 30, 2009 04:35 AM (ixT7j)

85

I have yet to meet a person who has actually bought a Chrysler.

 

If they would go back and start manufacturing nothing but the 1969 426 ci hemi and put it in 1969 Chargers, Barracudas, and Challengers they would do good.

 

A rep from Consumer Reports was just on Fox and he said there were NO Chrysler products on their list of recommended cars because they were unreliable.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 04:35 AM (f6os6)

86

There has been at least one jeep in my driveway since 1983. And there have been as many as three. Jeep is a Crysler product.

Same here. Currently I've got a '79 CJ7 and '04 Ram quad cab. I love that Ram...my favorite vehicle I've ever owned. The 5.7 litre Hemi is actually pretty poweful and the truck handles a little like a sports car (IMHO). (Though it still rides like a truck)

I'm a little worried about what happens in the future though when it comes time to trade it in.

I seem to recall that when Daimler was in acquisition talks with Chryser there was talk of spinning off the Jeep line or selling it to another automaker. In the end they kept it though. Who knows what Fiat will do with the Jeep and truck lines, but I suspect they'll still be around in some form in the future (unless they do something stupid such as renaming the trucks "Fiat Ram 1500." Do not want!

 

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 04:37 AM (1XErj)

87

BTW, according to the news, debt holders think they can get 60 cents on the dollar in banckruptcy vs the 30 cents that was offered in the "deal".

They would be fools to take the "deal".

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 04:37 AM (f6os6)

88 83 If there are any bankruptcy lawyers present, perhaps you could clarify, however, in bankruptcy, do not the bondholders rank ahead of all other parties?  Prior to today, in attempts to restructure, the bondholders were offered something in the range of 10cents on the dollar.  Why in hell would they agree to proceed with a restructuring now that would permit the union or Fiat to benefit at their expense.  If I were offering them advice, I would say let the shit fly, wind this sucker up and redistrubute firesale funds at the end of the day.  I guarantee it would end up being more than 10cents/dollar.  Oh, and by the way, whatevery taxpayer money in in that black hole is worth about the same as rusted LeBaron.

People holding secured debts, like bondholders, are typically moved to the front of the line in any bankruptcy proceeding and those with non-secured debts, like the UAW, are typically left grasping for crumbs after everything is distributed.

About the only way I see that changing is if the Feds agree to bout out the creditors for a greater percentage than they're likely to see from a bankruptcy.  10 cents on the dollar isn't going to cut it, though.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 30, 2009 04:38 AM (ixT7j)

89 Genghis you have a '79 CJ-7 Too? 304 w/ 3 speed stick?

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 04:40 AM (9bJJQ)

90 *buy out out the creditors*

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 30, 2009 04:40 AM (ixT7j)

91 Maddog: Thank you for the correction. I do know Jeep owners.

Posted by: Tommy V at April 30, 2009 04:41 AM (/PwQS)

92

Genghis

 

How many transmissions have you gone through? My older brother had a Jeep 4-wheel drive truck. He went through 3 transmissions within 4 years before he finally got fed up and got rid of it.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 04:42 AM (f6os6)

93 Maddog,
Although we have not met, I introduce myself to you as a Chrysler T & C owner, albeit, somewhat begrudgingly. However, it is paid off and wholly owned by me. Yet, it is a piece of junk; but since I enjoy having no car payments, I will continue in this inanimate relationship.  I blame Bush.


Posted by: G.W. McLintock at April 30, 2009 04:42 AM (ML9g8)

94 The older Jeep "box cherokees" are still being made in Canada and are hugely popular in Europe. These are the ones with the bullet proof inline 6.  They even have the Iveco diesel option for Canada and EU. 

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 04:43 AM (9bJJQ)

95

GM accepted the re-structuring put forth by the government where the union holds a majority stake, didn't they? Does this mean they still have the potential to go bankrupt? I assumed this meant GM has become another government money pit that will never die.

But this means Chrysler rejected the same deal, right? Except that somehow Fiat is going to get them instead. Be interesting to know who/what has the link to our government with Fiat.

Also, I'm not sure how it is possible to manipulate the market but I am firmly convinced that it is being manipulated so far today to go up. There is no possible way, given all the grim financial news, that the market should be up right now. (Of course I'm not a financial person, so maybe I'm wrong, but seriously, it is just extremely odd).

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 30, 2009 04:43 AM (AJ4xq)

96

genghis @ 86

Ram quad cab. I love that Ram...my favorite vehicle I've ever owned.

Your Ram pickup was the doing of Lee Iacocca (spelling?) whom Crysler could not wait to give the bum's rush as soon as he got them back in the black.

 

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 04:43 AM (OlN4e)

97 Vic, that had to be the 4-speed. NO?..The 3 speed was used in International school buses forever.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 04:44 AM (9bJJQ)

98 OT: real Sarah Palin on Twitter: http://twitter.com/AKGovSarahPalin

Posted by: FloofyParisParamus at April 30, 2009 04:45 AM (LLc3+)

99 "President Barack Obama will speak at noon New York time on the auto industry, the White House said in a statement today."

Bringing his nearly three decades of auto industry experience to bear on the probl...oh wait, never mind. He's a simpleton that negotiated some asbestos removal at some project housing one time, sort of.

Yeah, we got nothin' to worry about.

Posted by: buster mcDissenter at April 30, 2009 04:46 AM (PkxIz)

100

Hutch @ 94

94 The older Jeep "box cherokees" are still being made in Canada and are hugely popular in Europe. These are the ones with the bullet proof inline 6.  They even have the Iveco diesel option for Canada and EU. 

I had one. Best damn car I ever had. Select-Trac, drove 250 miles on black ice once. Wish I still had it, but son wrecked it.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 04:47 AM (OlN4e)

101 Following the lawsuits, the bondholders will get their money.  TOTUS isn't dictator yet.

Posted by: MarkD at April 30, 2009 04:47 AM (MMy4A)

102

Vic, that had to be the 4-speed.

 

It probably was but I don’t know for sure.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 04:47 AM (f6os6)

103 I have 2 Chrysler minivans, both with over 150K mi.  They limp along, were cheap, and can hold all of damn carseats my kids need.  I won't get anything nicer till the little bundles of joy are done with the carseats.

Can't imagine I will every buy a GM or Chrysler product after this bailout crap.  I would feel guilty knowing all of you guys helped me pay for it.

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 04:49 AM (L64A6)

104 @12, Sickinmass- look, if you're going to get all facty and logicy about this stuff, we'll never be able to laugh about it.

@44, Yinzer- if you do find a place like the one you describe, can you let the rest of us know?

Posted by: buster mcDissenter at April 30, 2009 04:49 AM (PkxIz)

105 I'm looking forward to the American auto industry producing cars every bit the equal of those produced by British Leyland during their 70s heyday.

Posted by: Farmer_Joe at April 30, 2009 04:50 AM (z4es9)

106

Don't EVER backtalk Adriana Lima, she does her homework and you can take what she says to the bank

Adrianna Lima doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about.

Each U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, ahead of Luxembourg, $55,641; Belgium, $55,235; and France, $54,609

http://tinyurl.com/dd9zrn

Since Adrainna Lima chose 2007 statistics, so did JackStraw.  And stop talking about yourself in the third person, it's creepy.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 04:51 AM (VW9/y)

107 Everyone could trade their Crysler products for Land Rovers. They will do anything a jeep  will do at only twice the price, and three times the breakdowns.

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 04:52 AM (OlN4e)

108

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 09:51 AM (VW9/y)

But the French work less hours, and Adriana was claiming they produce more per hour of work.

I have no idea what's true, and I find it hard to believe the French work harder, but that's what the actual statement was.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 04:53 AM (/Mla1)

109 hutch1200

Do those Cherokees make it to the U.S.? 

I've been searching for one - the last year they were produced here was 2001 so it's hard to find one with decent miles.

Posted by: scout finch at April 30, 2009 04:54 AM (kua3P)

110

The crew from Orange County Choppers is going to Alaska to build her a bike. Yeah, I know the OCC crew are clowns.

http://tinyurl.com/dn84ya

I rarely ever watch the show. But I will now.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 04:54 AM (9bJJQ)

111 "101 Following the lawsuits, the bondholders will get their money.  TOTUS isn't dictator yet.

Posted by: MarkD at April 30, 2009 09:47 AM (MMy4A)"

Unless of course the law that the bankruptcy judge has to follow somehow morphs.

Posted by: powerrangers at April 30, 2009 04:55 AM (zplc6)

112

Dave at 22: Texas is a foreign country to Hill because W resides there.  nuff said.

We have a Chrysler Town and Country and love it.  Would I get another Chrysler? Not now, after this.  Which is really too bad, because I would love to support American workmanship.  But I have no desire to support the UAW, AFL-CIO, NEA (spit upon them) or any other back-busting union.  We are inundated with Ladas, here in the former USSR satellite country, and they make interesting performance art by the sides of the road.  Sadly, the new Government Mobile will likely have a lot in common with the Lada.

 

Posted by: mokimoki at April 30, 2009 04:57 AM (yI9fh)

113 Is it still safe to get a Ford?  I don't hear much about them receiving a bailout.  I know they were considering it, but now all I ever hear about is GM & Chrysler.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 04:59 AM (/Mla1)

114 No, Scout. Canada only. I don't know how hard it would be to register in the US. Safety, emissions etc...You could always crate it up and list it as "car parts" on the mainfest, and switch the VIN from a wrecked one. I have the star shaped rivets if you need them. I have an old Italian guy who makes them by hand.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 04:59 AM (9bJJQ)

115 "37 "Good thing we gave them a metric fuckton of cash so this wouldn't happen. " Yeah, and I still remember when questions were raised about the possibility of this happening back in - when was it? November? I didn't listen to the answers coming from the left, because I never do, but I DO recall the hail of elbows and fists, accompanied by a chorus of screams and curses in NRO, as I was "educated" by those who know so much that "It's not just the employees of the automakers! Every job supports 3 other jobs in other companies that supply parts and services! It will be national disaster! DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING???" Thanks a lot, smartasses.

Posted by: Dr Mabuse at April 30, 2009 08:55 AM (AVYqB)"

Doesn't it make you uncomfortable that this is not the only place "we" poured in cash?

Posted by: powerrangers at April 30, 2009 04:59 AM (zplc6)

116

But the French work less hours, and Adriana was claiming they produce more per hour of work.

Are you sassing JackStraw?!  Nobody backtalks JackStraw!

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 05:00 AM (VW9/y)

117

Dodge makes a fabulous diesel truck. We own an '05 extended cab (4 doors, but not a full sized rear seat) dually with a long bed and a Cummins Turbo diesel engine.  It gets 22 mpg unloaded on the highway and gets 11 mpg pulling 25,000 # at 75 mph, with the air conditioner running (yes, we exceeded the manufacturer's recommended payload, and do so regularly - but the truck doesn't break a sweat).

Toyota can't come close to that, Odumbo. 

Some of us morons work for a living and need trucks that do too. 

I've had me some trucks, and I've had me some TRUCKS, and the Dodge we've got now is the best EVER.  I hope Fiat doesn't completely screw up the truck division.  We owned a Strada back in the '70s (an Arab Oil Embargo panic purchase) and it sucked out loud.

Posted by: The Other Coyote at April 30, 2009 05:00 AM (IDFhb)

118 "triple didgit gain in teh face of a chrysler bankruptcy"  - CNBC talking female head

Posted by: powerrangers at April 30, 2009 05:00 AM (zplc6)

119

hutch1200 --

What the hell does yawshy mawsh mean?

Posted by: Tinian at April 30, 2009 05:01 AM (70sTG)

120 hutch1200

Thanks for the info and offer.  Sounds like a lot of trouble.

Posted by: scout finch at April 30, 2009 05:01 AM (kua3P)

121 Some Wobbly named Jack Straw wrote:

Each U.S. worker produces eleventy bajillion dollars of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report.

I'm sorry, I thought I was commenting at a smart military blog, not a stupid unionist blog.  Like, fuck, seriously.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:01 AM (DJjeC)

122

What is Wall St. thinking?  Dow Chemical reports 1Q profit drop of 90+%, consumer spending dropped and ExxonMobil 1Q profit fell ~50%, and now we hear about Chrysler biting the big one.

Dow up 100???  What do they know that we don't?

The market is up because I'm out. The minute I buy back in, it'll tank. The market knows.

 

Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at April 30, 2009 05:03 AM (0lz0I)

123

Following the lawsuits, the bondholders will get their money.  TOTUS isn't dictator yet.

 

 

Barry is bigger than the law. All must bow down to his greater good.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 30, 2009 05:03 AM (1Jaio)

124 And as others have pointed out, I said GDP per hour worked, fuckstick, not gross GDP.  The French take 3 hour lunches and work a 35 hour week - and they're still more productive, and have been for many years.  How?  How the fuck is that possible?

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:04 AM (DJjeC)

125

89Genghis you have a '79 CJ-7 Too? 304 w/ 3 speed stick?

It's got a 304, but other than that it's a very unusual CJ-7. It's actually an automatic. I bought it from an airman at Tinker Air Force Base in the late '80's. Before that at some point it belonged to a law enforcement angency (such as a sherrif's dept. or Border Control.) It'd been re-painted, but if you look at it at a certain angle, you can still faintly make out the outlines of the star decal. It's got one of those oddball Quadratrack trannies so I can switch back & forth between 2WD and 4WD. I've never really understood why they put it in the glove compartment though. So I have to park it and go 'round to the passenger's side to do the switcheroo.

It's actually got a pretty good punch at 0-60. Mostly it justs sits still though. One of the previous owners pulled out all the emission systems and replaced it with dual headers. Which was fine when I lived in Oklahoma, but when I moved to Seattle, the emission-Nazis told me I had to put all the emission controls back in order to get it licensed.

Oh, and the previous genius owner thought it'd be nice to cut a sunroof into the top. I thought it was kinda' novel when I bought it...that is until the first time I had to drive it in the rain. I must've used at least 5 tubes of caulk on it, but it still leaks like a sieve.

 

 

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 05:04 AM (1XErj)

126

But the French work less hours, and Adriana was claiming they produce more per hour of work.

Are you sassing JackStraw?!  Nobody backtalks JackStraw!

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 10:00 AM (VW9/y)

Yinzer didn't check the link.  Yinzer acknowledges the confusion and regrets the mistake, but blames Bush.

Posted by: yinzer at April 30, 2009 05:06 AM (/Mla1)

127

OK, one theory about market going up, investors are seeing a company stand up to the govt. and they are responding to that?

Because doesn't it seem nicely timed that Obama gives a 100 day things are starting to get better speech and the next morning, sure enough, stocks are up, despite the swine flu situation, and Biden freaking New Yorkers out again before the White House could back track, and companies like Starbucks reporting huge losses, and the only reason some companies averted a quarterly report disaster was because of job cuts, and I could go on but I won't.

 

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 30, 2009 05:07 AM (AJ4xq)

128 One of the car guy websites had a series in which they road tested government built cars from the old Soviet bloc. I'm not getting lucky on Google, but if you can find them it was good stuff.

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 05:07 AM (L64A6)

129 GM sold 8.5 million cars worldwide in 2008.  Anyone want to start a pool on what the number will be in 2009?

Posted by: Jeff Zeleny at April 30, 2009 05:07 AM (DvaIL)

130 My guess is that Chrysler would rather get hosed in a court of law than get hosed by Team Barry and the UAW.  Good for them.

Posted by: GarandFan at April 30, 2009 05:08 AM (C3okI)

131 Each one of these companies should have done this in the first place.  Now we have one more excuse for this communist administration to buy out and fuck over another industry.  What do we have left?  auto industry gone, health industry on the way, schools = gone, banks = gone, coal and steel on the way... AND WE'RE ONLY AT 100 DAYS.  WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA

Posted by: Marxism for the stupid americans at April 30, 2009 05:08 AM (YJZp/)

132 Genghis, you think it leaks now, try tilting the windshield down. Just once. You'll never get that seal again either. BTW...Quadtratrac is the best for off roading....Is there anyway you can get antique/classic/homebuilt/hot rod plates for it?

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 05:09 AM (9bJJQ)

133 Maria B on CNBC discussing the senior bondholders, you know the guys who willingly gave their money and are now being totally screwed, will be releasing a statement soon.  

Posted by: powerrangers at April 30, 2009 05:09 AM (zplc6)

134

I'm sorry, I thought I was commenting at a smart military blog, not a stupid unionist blog.  Like, fuck, seriously.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

Dude, you got bitch slapped.  Deal with it.  Don't make JackStraw angry.  You wouldn't like JackStraw when he is angry.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 05:09 AM (VW9/y)

135 Tinian...WTF? Did I forget my secret decoder ring?

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 05:10 AM (9bJJQ)

136 @127 - the PPT to the rescue????

Posted by: Jeff Zeleny at April 30, 2009 05:12 AM (DvaIL)

137 "Jeep...Theres only one....and we fucked it up".

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 05:13 AM (9bJJQ)

138 @136 Oops, that question was way too "harsh" for Brownnoser Zeleny.

Posted by: rockhead at April 30, 2009 05:14 AM (DvaIL)

139 because I never do, but I DO recall the hail of elbows and fists, accompanied by a chorus of screams and curses in NRO,
Posted by: Dr Mabuse

Your recollection is faulty apparently. Scanning NRO for articles about the bailouts I find articles like this editorial Obama's Lemon.

"The farcical bailout of GM and Chrysler drew nearer to its inevitable end yesterday as Pres. Barack Obama started laying the groundwork for a blameless escape."

Another post on the Corner called the bailouts "insane."
Did you have a particular author in mind?

Posted by: Iskandar at April 30, 2009 05:14 AM (DFjVW)

140 I have yet to meet a person who has actually bought a Chrysler.

Seriously. I have no idea who buys those cars, and clearly not many people do.

You'll note that the vast majority of Chrysler anecdotes from the rest of the morons is almost exclusively the non-Chry badges, Dodge trucks, Jeep SUVs etc.

As for actual Chry cars, I'll bet that their sales figures to individuals are pretty dismal. It's probably the fleet sales that have kept the car lines from losing even more money.


Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 30, 2009 05:14 AM (uwPRk)

141

Tinian...WTF? Did I forget my secret decoder ring?

I dunno -- you said it to me one time when I told you it was Polka Friday. Maybe I spelled it wrong.

Posted by: Tinian at April 30, 2009 05:15 AM (70sTG)

142

Why do liberals think that bondholders aren't people or groups of people(probably peoples pensions)?

Posted by: Girdyourloins! at April 30, 2009 05:15 AM (3PqHz)

143 92

Genghis

 

How many transmissions have you gone through? My older brother had a Jeep 4-wheel drive truck. He went through 3 transmissions within 4 years before he finally got fed up and got rid of it.

 

On the CJ-7 I had to get a rebuild once...completely blown out. Worse than that though, I cracked no less two engine blocks. The Chrysler 304 has some kind of oddball plug at the bottom of the oil pan and in both cases it failed without warning (thanks non-functioning dashboard indicator!).  And I mean that literally: without warning. By the time I'd hear the cyliders starting to seize up, it was already too late. So that's another reason I parked it and got something else. (A Saturn...quit laughing...very sturdy and dependable, and at the time dependable trumped all)

 

The Ram's got a little trouble with the tranny right now, but not big trouble.

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 05:16 AM (1XErj)

144 Or perhaps you were thinking of The New Republic?

Posted by: Iskandar at April 30, 2009 05:17 AM (DFjVW)

145 Why do liberals think that bondholders aren't people or groups of people(probably peoples pensions)?

Because, to paraphrase one of their heroes, one person losing money is a tragedy but millions of people losing money is a statistic.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at April 30, 2009 05:17 AM (ixT7j)

146 And as others have pointed out, I said GDP per hour worked, fuckstick, not gross GDP.  The French take 3 hour lunches and work a 35 hour week - and they're still more productive, and have been for many years.  How?  How the fuck is that possible?

So, is the chart of manufactoring jobs, or all jobs?  Is it just GDP / total hours worked?  Does french GDP include government papershufflers?  Does ours?  If I magically doubled ever manager's salary would this "productivity stat" go up, or down?

I find the chart interesting but I can't gleam much from it.

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 05:20 AM (PD1tk)

147 Does this mean that I get clear title on my '08 Dodge Ram I bought last July?

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at April 30, 2009 05:21 AM (/bqyT)

148 With the Federal Government getting involved in bondholder contracts I can't imagine anyone investing in corporate bonds any time soon.

Posted by: robtr at April 30, 2009 05:22 AM (H60q6)

149

On the CJ-7 I had to get a rebuild once...completely blown out. Worse than that though, I cracked no less two engine blocks.

 

That makes me bless my 13 year old F-150. I have never done anything but change the oil etc.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 05:25 AM (f6os6)

150 The French take 3 hour lunches and work a 35 hour week - and they're still more productive, and have been for many years.  How?  How the fuck is that possible?

I'm guessing guest workers from Algeria and Turkey.

It's a similar situation with their army. The only consistently effective part of the French Army is the Foreign Legion.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 30, 2009 05:26 AM (uwPRk)

151

 29

genghis!

Good to see you are alive and at your keyboard.  Some of us were worried when you failed to show last night.

10-4 on that, you missed another hot pron night at Ace's place.

I think the girls are going to drive the traffic through the roof.

I could hardly get out of  my bunk this morning.

Kemp

 

Posted by: kempermanx at April 30, 2009 05:26 AM (qvT/A)

152 Whoa.  I hadn't realize just how small the French economy is, or the entire EuroZone for that matter.

Gross domestic product at current prices in million US dollars
France:  2 077 954
US:      13 741 600
Euro:   10 431 703


Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 05:27 AM (PD1tk)

153 Also, I'm not sure how it is possible to manipulate the market but I am firmly convinced that it is being manipulated so far today to go up. There is no possible way, given all the grim financial news, that the market should be up right now. (Of course I'm not a financial person, so maybe I'm wrong, but seriously, it is just extremely odd).

Paranoid- my husband is a financial planner (26 yrs), which needless to say, qualifies him as "in the business" and he said all his tech info does not support the dow/s&p numbers right now.  Last thing he said as he ran out the door. God. this has been the most nightmarish 2 yrs we've ever gone through. Up is down and down is up.

Posted by: Derak at April 30, 2009 05:29 AM (QIsMa)

154 The UAW got a look at the books and had an "oh, shit" moment when they realized that hey, management was right when they said there wasn't any money there.

Posted by: Salty Alaskan at April 30, 2009 05:29 AM (QohqE)

155
148 With the Federal Government getting involved in bondholder contracts I can't imagine anyone investing in corporate bonds any time soon.


THIS!
None of these financial shenanigans make any sense unless you assume the administration is going end-game on the whole capitalist economy thing.  This damage can't be undone.

Posted by: Dang Straights at April 30, 2009 05:29 AM (Haq+B)

156

107 Everyone could trade their Crysler products for Land Rovers. They will do anything a jeep  will do at only twice the price, and three times the breakdowns.

NOW that was good.  Remember, the Land Rover was also a "Government" owned car before BMW then Ford bought them.

Kemp

Posted by: kempermanx at April 30, 2009 05:30 AM (qvT/A)

157 Inevitable, and long overdue. Now wait for the other shoe to drop when GM declares Chapter 11. I'd look for it in a week or two.

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 05:32 AM (/0a60)

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 05:33 AM (PD1tk)

159 Biden - what a fucking douchebag idiot - part 10,901:

Vice President Joe Biden said Thursday that he would not recommend taking any commercial flight or riding in a subway car “at this point” because swine flu virus can spread “in confined places.” A little more than one hour later, Biden rushed out a statement backing off.

“I would tell members of my family — and I have — I wouldn’t go anywhere in confined places now,” Biden said on NBC’s “Today” show.. “It’s not that it’s going to Mexico. It’s [that] you’re in a confined aircraft. When one person sneezes, it goes all the way through the aircraft. That’s me. …

“So, from my perspective, what it relates to is mitigation. If you’re out in the middle of a field when someone sneezes, that’s one thing. If you’re in a closed aircraft or closed container or closed car or closed classroom, it’s a different thing.”

That contradicted more restrained advice from President Barack Obama and the federal government — and the last thing the White House wants to do right now is shut down the airline industry and big-city subways out of mass panic.


Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 05:33 AM (5r0Tz)

160 farking interface!

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 05:33 AM (PD1tk)

161

You want to see what the problem with Chrysler and GM is, read these two sentences.

Chrysler is only a fraction of its former self. It has about 39,000 U.S. employees, only about 40% of the total it had at the beginning of the decade.

It also has 65,000 U.S. retirees as well as their family members who depend upon the company for pension benefits and heath care coverage.

Chrysler is paying more former employees than current employees.  How is any company supposed to function when 63% of its payroll costs are going to employees that currently produce nothing.

Posted by: Eric at April 30, 2009 05:34 AM (3f3uN)

162

Your Ram pickup was the doing of Lee Iacocca (spelling?) whom Crysler could not wait to give the bum's rush as soon as he got them back in the black.

And your point is? If you'd like, I'll try to set aside some time later today to feel guilty about whatever it is I should be feeling guilty about. Duzzat work for you?

132Genghis, you think it leaks now, try tilting the windshield down. Just once. You'll never get that seal again either. BTW...Quadtratrac is the best for off roading....Is there anyway you can get antique/classic/homebuilt/hot rod plates for it?

Nah. It doesn't even run now and it'd take a lot of money and time to get it running. Hell, the tires alone would cost me at least 1k to replace...it's been sitting so long in the elements that they've really deteriorated. Every summer I tell myself: "Self, this summer you're going to work on the Jeep." To which myself replies "Fuck you. I'm staying inside and playing video games in an air conditioned environment."

Maybe someday.

I was always suspicious of the Quadratrack control even working and so I was pretty much toodling around town in all-time 4wd. But I was pretty well convinced that when I shifted into Low 2 drive that thing could climb vertical walls.

 

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 05:34 AM (1XErj)

163 Weirdly, the DOW is up this morning. I wonder what's going to happen as the day progresses. Maybe the market has already internalized the fact of the automakers' bankruptcies and has adjusted accordingly. If so, this is good news because it means the market won't dive again. If not...we may see a pretty big point drop between the opening and closing bells.

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 05:34 AM (/0a60)

164 Avanti Fascisti popolo!

How appropriate that Fiat would be among the first foreign corporations chosen to partner with the new corporatist government entity in charge of American automobile production. Those rows of columns, the blind adoration, and all the theatrical pomp and bile of the Democrat ascendancy machine make all kinds of sense when placed in their intended context.

If so-called liberal anti-fascists had any integrity at all they'd poke their beady little eyes out with their master's barbed cock. Unfortunately they'd have to stop gobbling his rhetorical smegma first.

Posted by: monkeyfan at April 30, 2009 05:34 AM (cEE8N)

165 This thread needs more women talking about their tits.  Really.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at April 30, 2009 05:35 AM (sKNox)

166 So, is the chart of manufactoring jobs, or all jobs?  Is it just GDP / total hours worked?  Does french GDP include government papershufflers?  Does ours?  If I magically doubled ever manager's salary would this "productivity stat" go up, or down?  How much would my head weight if it were veal?  Who invented the gas station?

I'm not Uncle Buck, you are not Macauley Culkin, so kindly fuck off with the rapidfire blurting out of random questions, mmm-kay?  We don't do that in the heterosexual community.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:36 AM (DJjeC)

167

"President Barack Obama will speak at noon New York time?  What is New York time? Does each state have it own time now?"

 

 New York time started on 9/11/01. Obama just lives in a different time zone.

Posted by: Roy at April 30, 2009 05:37 AM (cB77O)

168

Now... I see this as GOOD news, right?  Chrysler's debt/bond holders rejected the POTUS/UAW restructure plan.  This could very well be the opposite of what we were deriding a few days ago.

They "could" tear up all of their UAW contracts in bankruptcy, no?  With Fiat to partner with, could they not slim down and go the non-union labor route?  Well, probably not that far, but I think we've just moved from 55% UAW ownership to a very shaky position for the unions.

This is what GM should have done and still should do.  Now , if I'm reading this right, we can support Ford AND Chrysler/Jeep.  We'll see what is announced later on.  I don't care for Chrysler so much, but Jeep is a decent line and deserves better management and product support.

Dude!

Posted by: Goin' to Vegas at April 30, 2009 05:37 AM (9PY81)

169 So the money, we didn't have and didn't exist but made up by borrowing against future generations, doesn't get paid back ?  The circle is complete. All Praise Obama

Posted by: Dan at April 30, 2009 05:39 AM (qfb86)

170

Dodge trucks.  the best.  we presently own 2 Dodge Rams (the little ones).  and all our other vehicles are Chryslers.  why?  because of the sales & service of our local dealer.

there is  not a local foreign car dealer anywhere near me.

Posted by: kelley in virginia at April 30, 2009 05:39 AM (g568/)

171

Genghis @ 162

And your point is? If you'd like, I'll try to set aside some time later today to feel guilty about whatever it is I should be feeling guilty about. Duzzat work for you?

My point is, Crysler gave the man who saved their asses the bum's rush. Same as the British got rid of Churchill as soon as they could after WW II was over. Gratitude!

/where did you get the idea that I thought you should feel guilty???

Posted by: maddogg at April 30, 2009 05:39 AM (OlN4e)

172 Heh.  Suck it Old World. 

NAFTA countries: 16,491,078 
Europe, including Turkey:  15,817,002

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 05:40 AM (PD1tk)

173

Fiat = Lada

Lada made its name in Western Europe selling the Fiat 124-based VAZ-2101 and its many derivatives as an economy car in large quantities during the 1980s, but subsequent models have not enjoyed the same success.

Posted by: Speller at April 30, 2009 05:41 AM (fh5Oy)

174 so kindly fuck off with the rapidfire blurting out of random questions, mmm-kay?

Hey, its your killer chart link.  I'm just trying to figure out if is relevant to anything in this thread.

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 05:42 AM (PD1tk)

175 Wow - this is pure government control of the economy -- a first taste - a "final opportunity to do the right thing"/......what a joke

Along with the Fiat deal, the United Auto Workers ratified a cost-cutting pact Wednesday night. Treasury reached a deal earlier this week with four banks that hold the majority of Chrsyler's debt in return for $2 billion in cash.

But the administration said about 40 hedge funds that hold roughly 30 percent of that debt also needed to sign on for the deal to go through. Those creditors said the proposal was unfair and were holding out for a better deal.

"While the administration was willing to give the holdout creditors a final opportunity to do the right thing, the agreement of all other key stakeholders ensured that no hedge fund could have a veto over Chrysler's future success," said one of the administration officials.

A third person briefed on Wednesday night's events said the Treasury Department and the four banks tried to persuade the hedge funds to take a sweetened deal of $2.25 billion in cash. But in the end, this person said most thought they could recover more if Chrysler went into bankruptcy and some of its assets were sold to satisfy creditors. This person asked not to be identified because details of the negotiations have not been made public.


Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 05:43 AM (5r0Tz)

176

They "could" tear up all of their UAW contracts in bankruptcy, no?  With Fiat to partner with, could they not slim down and go the non-union labor route? 

No bloidy likely.  Italians are big on Communism.  It's very popular over there, and they have the largest Communist party membership roles of any non-Communist country.

Fiat is a Union car maker.

Posted by: Speller at April 30, 2009 05:44 AM (fh5Oy)

177 Hey, its your killer chart link.  I'm just trying to figure out if is relevant to anything in this thread.

Interesting how I get trolled harder at "conservative" blogs for being conservative than I do at "liberal" blogs, not sure what's up with that.   Look, I'm a consultant, and I will invoice your ass if you ask me one more question.  Actually if you can't figure out how economic productivity and statistics are germane to a discussion on a Big 3 automaker about to declare bankruptcy I need you to kill yourself, now.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:51 AM (DJjeC)

Posted by: Home of Joe Biden at April 30, 2009 05:52 AM (mN3EM)

179

"Italians are big on Communism." (176)

I get your point.  At least the 55% UAW deal is dead and anything else is better IMO.  I'm not anti-union ( I'm in one ) but the legacy costs of the UAW are a big part of the problem with the big three and up to very recently, they've been unwilling to modify what the retired folks are getting.  That's been hurting the current employees on the line and the companies viability.

This will be interesting to see unfold and I just HOPE that the CHANGE that bankrupcy produces is more in line with free-market capitalism than marksist/statis governemnt control.

I hope Ford can hold on.  Evidently GM bondholders aren't done trying to renegotiate their deal with TOTUS/UAW, but I think they're already too far in the tank with our dear leader to back out now..  GM is government motors.

 

Posted by: Goin' to Vegas at April 30, 2009 05:55 AM (9PY81)

180 Adriana, perhaps if you were a bit less hostile, you might not get trolled so hard. 

Posted by: Derak at April 30, 2009 05:56 AM (QIsMa)

181 Drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee for 11 years, 240,000 miles. It had some problems, mainly with rust, but I loved it. I now drive a sedan that gets twice the gas mileage, but I still miss the Jeep.

Posted by: lmg at April 30, 2009 06:00 AM (A/vgC)

182 Give Dick Cheney a board and a garden hose and he'd fix this shit in about a week.  Anybody up for a little waterboarding?  I'd start with Dodd and Fwank.

Posted by: Dan at April 30, 2009 06:01 AM (qfb86)

183 "The filing comes after some of the company's smaller lenders refused a Treasury Department demand to reduce the amount of money the troubled automaker owed them."

WTF, I glad these investors held out. Why should anyone reduce what any corporation owes them. The Treasury demands - F**k off.

Posted by: MikeH at April 30, 2009 06:02 AM (LdYLm)

184 I wonder if Barney Frank will be repeating these comments about an hour from now when the Messiah is done spinning the Chysler bankuptcy as a good thing:

The CEOs of the Big Three are back on Capital Hill this morning testifying before the House Financial Services Committee, and Barney Frank at least seems sympathetic. The chairman said bankruptcy “would be a disaster,” given the current credit markets and today’s dire job report, adding that “the country is held hostage” by the debate, the Detroit News reports.

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 06:03 AM (5r0Tz)

185

El Duce: Chrysler failed because they did not build “fuel efficient” cars.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 06:11 AM (f6os6)

186 >Good to see you are alive and at your keyboard.  Some of us were worried when you failed to show last night.

I lurked and jerked. I was speechless.
First.Time.Evah!

Posted by: sickinmass at April 30, 2009 06:12 AM (/i4dU)

187 is any9one watching this bullshit from Obama?

Fiat will save the day. with shitting tiny cars.

GREAT!

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 06:13 AM (5r0Tz)

188 and there it is --- 170K get to keep health care because of his fucked up plan.

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 06:14 AM (5r0Tz)

189 "With the Federal Government getting involved in bondholder contracts I can't imagine anyone investing in corporate bonds any time soon."

Don't claim to be some sorta economixal smart guy or nothin', but isn't there some kinda maxim stating that investment flows from the bond market to the stock market and vicey versey depending on economic events?

Assuming I'm even half right here, wouldn't money be fleeing the bond market today based on barky the clown's shenanigans? Might explain that stock market jump, I'm thinkin'.

Posted by: buster mcDissenter at April 30, 2009 06:14 AM (PkxIz)

190 and now he's demonizing the hedge funds.

this is fascism.

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 06:15 AM (5r0Tz)

191 somehow a bankruptcy filing is not a sign of weakness?

Does anyone actually believe this bullshit?

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 06:16 AM (5r0Tz)

192 oh, great, now GM is in bed with their competitor and the guviment is paying the bill for financing chrysler car buyers.

what a fucking joke.

Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at April 30, 2009 06:18 AM (5r0Tz)

193 "Interesting how I get trolled harder at "conservative" blogs for being conservative than I do at "liberal" blogs, not sure what's up with that."

You're not getting trolled, you're being challenged. If you consider having your premises checked "trolling", then scram, eh?

And here's a hint- the cutesy third person references to your kicky screen name aren't clever, they're tiresome and banal. Might be adding to the friction you're feeling round here.

Posted by: buster mcDissenter at April 30, 2009 06:19 AM (PkxIz)

194 Actually if you can't figure out how economic productivity and statistics are germane to a discussion on a Big 3 automaker about to declare bankruptcy I need you to kill yourself, now.

Dude, the columns on that chart are good info, I'm just trying to figure out if GDP / total hours worked has any meaning re autoworker productivity. 

Perhaps you would lower yourself to explain it.

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 06:20 AM (PD1tk)

195 Did the communists ever make a good car?
Top Gear, Series 12, Episode 06.



Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 06:27 AM (L64A6)

196 Bummer Genghis,,,My 304 has been under water, while very hot, a few time and never failed. My brother and I put a Kevlar body on it about 6 years ago. He went through some guardrails and onto some train tracks. Landed on it's side. I thought it was finally screwed. It buffed out because it's gel-coated like a boat. I have a killer 360 built for it, but the frame is starting to go. Of course I can't find a decent frame in Pa...We both weep I guess.

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 06:28 AM (9bJJQ)

197

BTW....this is why we can't trust "the people" to handle their investments and bonds!

 Social Security is the only, "safe, locked box", place to put it. Trust the Gov't to invest it in bankrupt car companies for you. Now, assholes!

Posted by: hutch1200 at April 30, 2009 06:31 AM (9bJJQ)

198 And they couldn't have done this last year without wrecking the entire economy because?...

Posted by: mojo at April 30, 2009 06:34 AM (g1cNf)

199 Oh well.  Nevermind my posts.  I assumed the UAW wouldn't prevail and I was wrong.  It was cooked in the batter,.... that sucks.  I like Jeep, but I won't buy from Obama/UAW motors.. no way.  FAIL

Posted by: Goin' to Vegas at April 30, 2009 06:34 AM (9PY81)

200 How co inky dink Bob tells maria he's going,

Posted by: powerrangers at April 30, 2009 06:37 AM (zplc6)

201 It seems odd that the O is going straight to the strong-arm on the bondholders.  I'm sure there's at least 10 billion left in the TARP that could have been slipped to them to make the nationalization smooth and quiet.

Epic Fail.

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 06:39 AM (PD1tk)

202 wow, been in a meeting.  Is this really happening the way it is happening and did some dude on CNBC refer to the administration as "these bama guys"?

Posted by: ranger rick at April 30, 2009 06:41 AM (zplc6)

203 The revolution will begin the day Chevy stops production of the Corvette.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at April 30, 2009 06:44 AM (ZGhSv)

204 We don't do that in the heterosexual community.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 10:36 AM (DJjeC)

Who fcuking made you the spokesmodel for the heterosexual community, Adriana?

You speak for no one but yourself.

Posted by: Lewis at April 30, 2009 06:44 AM (Y3uPw)

205

124 And as others have pointed out, I said GDP per hour worked, fuckstick, not gross GDP.  The French take 3 hour lunches and work a 35 hour week - and they're still more productive, and have been for many years.  How?  How the fuck is that possible?

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 10:04 AM (DJjeC)

You're going to act like an idiot who hasn't taken Econ101 so I'm going to treat you like an idiot.

You used 2007 numbers, no PPP "fagotry", the problem is that was during the the days of the overly strong Euro (around 3% more than today or about $1.50).  I hate PPP when it's used to compare poor and rich countries but it is a much more reliable indicator when comparing developed nations.

Given your inability to do anything more than look at some charts that you have no idea how to analyze,  I'm sure you're also aware that the marginal product of labor for each added hour of labor above some minimum is declining.  To put that in terms you can understand, that means if someone works 20 hours they can produce say $20, but at 25 hours they produce $24, at 30 $28, 35 $32, 40 $36.  The French work an average of 25 hours a week, Americans 35 hours so yes as I'm sure even you can figure out $24/25 is bigger than $32/35.

A key issue is would you rather live where every worker produces $32 or $24?  The other important thing is despite working more hours which drops per hour productivity Americans still produce as much per hour if not more than the French.

In summary, you can stop worrying your pretty little brain about it, US workers are just fine.

Posted by: jarod at April 30, 2009 06:48 AM (A23Gx)

206 You speak for no one but yourself.

Rather, he protests too much.

Posted by: toby928 at April 30, 2009 06:49 AM (PD1tk)

207 29 

genghis!

Good to see you are alive and at your keyboard.  Some of us were worried when you failed to show last night.

Oh...sorry. I meant to say thanks but got distracted. I tried to arrange for someone to fill in but Gmail screwed up the lines of communication. Thanks Gmail!

Overnight thread will make its triumphant return this evening with a fresh load of the usual shit I tack onto it, a ne animal sponsor and...(wait for it)...lace wigs!

I look forward to continuing service as your overnight pinata.

(Apparently, with no overnight thread available, you guys invaded Ace's last thread of the night. He's been leaving me messages all morning telling me I'm responsible for all the damage as well as completely sanitizing and fumigating the place. And then there are all the strange spots and stains you guys left on the carpet. It's a little hard to tell though since on each succeeding message he gets a little more incoherent with rage.)

Posted by: genghis at April 30, 2009 06:51 AM (1XErj)

208

$8 BILLION to shut down Chrysler????

 

This really pisses me off. I am in the process of trying to get financing to OPEN a bar/pub, and it is damn near impossible to find a $150K for a start up business.

 

...And yet, we can flush $8 BILLION down the crapper to make a bankruptcy "easier"???  WTF is wrong with this picture???

On top of the BILLION$ we have already sunk into these defunct and morbid companies?  Everyone knew they were going down the trail to bankruptcy years ago- I think they have had plenty of time to prepare!

Posted by: Gerry Owen at April 30, 2009 06:59 AM (oGv5F)

209

On a per-hour basis French workers are more productive than American workers.  That really shouldn't be the case folks.  Time to go union bustin'.

Alabama is a horrible example if the need to union-bust is your argument.  Alabama is a Right-to-Work state.  None of the 4 auto assembly plants here (+1 that is about 2 miles away from the AL state line in GA that draws a significant number of its workers and suppliers from AL) are unionized.  And Toyota apparently liked AL enough to build its major V8 engine assembly plant here.

Posted by: Terry at April 30, 2009 07:06 AM (YIdck)

210 Bammy said Chrysler Financial was not viable, so Gee Mac (his pronunciation) will provide financing for dealers suppliers and customers. It took me about 30 seconds to figure out he was talking about General Motors Acceptance Corp, G-M-A-C to the rest of the world.

Posted by: Hazy at April 30, 2009 07:15 AM (1kwr2)

211

This really pisses me off. I am in the process of trying to get financing to OPEN a bar/pub, and it is damn near impossible to find a $150K for a start up business.

 

Don’t you know; bars are not “shovel ready”.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 07:27 AM (f6os6)

212 bars are not “shovel ready”.

You need to get out more, Vic.

Posted by: mojo at April 30, 2009 11:32 AM (g1cNf)

213 I like this post and I'm sure people would do much more than just read, they act. Great stuff here. Please keep it up....Mercedes-Benz Mobil Mewah Terbaik Indonesia::Meriahkan pesta ulang tahun bersama GarudaFood::Mari Berkomunitas Di Faceblog

Posted by: Mercedes-Benz at June 02, 2011 09:33 PM (xJe3c)

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