September 30, 2013

Bring Back "Let It Burn"
— DrewM

Allah asked me a couple of week's ago why I was so invested in the ObamaCare fight when I was in the "Let It Burn" camp. After all, letting ObamaCare happen would be like pouring gas on the fire.

It was a fair question and I had to consider it for a bit.

For me it comes down to if you're going to do commentary on stuff simply saying the same slogan over and over again is useless and worse, boring. It's an easy issue to get worked up over and there are plenty of bad guys to go after.

Also the reality is "Let it burn" is happening whether or not you want it to and whether or not anything comes of the CR/Debt Ceiling fights. Our financial and political DOOM is on auto-pilot at this point. Taking sides on an issue here or there doesn't change that.

And then something comes along that makes you want to pour as much gasoline on the fire as possible. Something like this for example...

3) Finally, DeSantis/Vitter [forcing staffers onto the exchanges] could result in an up to $80,000 retirement windfall for some staff. Some offices have said publicly (and I suspect more would do it quietly) that if the bill goes through they're going to increase their staffs' salaries to "make them whole." Under DeSantis/Vitter, this money would have to come as wages, as opposed to tax-free employer provided premium assistance. (see above) For staff with either a spouse or kids the Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO right now costs the gov't $920 a month. A Legislative Assistant who was making $75,000 per year with wife and kids now has to be paid $86,040 per year (actually probably more because now that this money is wages he's going to get hit by FICA, Fed & State taxes) but let say $87,000 to keep the math simple.

These staffers are all enrolled in the Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS). As I mention above, his salary – which is what's used to calculate his "high 3" – is up by $12,000. (His “high 3” is the average that is used to calculate his annual annuity in retirement.) Assuming that he puts in 20 years before he retires at 60, that means that FERS calculates his annuity at $12,000 higher than it would have otherwise. Retiring with 20 years of service he gets 34% of his salary for the rest of his life. That's an additional roughly $4000 per year - and assuming he's of average health and dies in 20 years, Uncle Sam has just kicked in an additional $80,000 to his retirement. That doesn't include COLAs. It also doesn't take into account the benefits that will accrue to his TSP, including mandatory agency match that all federal employees receive.

That's via Brian Faughnan.

So even if the Vitter amendment passes and congressional staffers are forced onto the ObamaCare exchanges, the self-dealing bastards in DC will find away to protect themselves while costing taxpayers more money. Swell.

Now that might not happen. The political risks might be too high for some, if not most, members but I don't think I'd bet on that.

The deck is simply stacked against the American people (and too many of them are willing accomplices so long as they get their 30 pieces of silver from their representatives).

It's a potent reminder that while the fight we we're watching is between Democrats and Republicans and Republicans against Republicans, the real battle is between the permanent political class and the people who create the wealth these leaches confiscate it from.

Posted by: DrewM at 06:12 AM | Comments (239)
Post contains 607 words, total size 4 kb.

1 We are becoming soviet.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:14 AM (bb5+k)

2 The Recovering Republic looms on the horizon.

Posted by: eman at September 30, 2013 06:15 AM (AO9UG)

3 It's a potent reminder that while the fight we we're watching is between Democrats and Republicans and Republicans against Republicans, the real battle is between the permanent political class and the people who create the wealth these leaches confiscate it from. Posted by: DrewM. at 11:12 AM Neo Feudalism and the courtier class.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:15 AM (bb5+k)

4 I'm with you. The only way to end this train wreck is to let it happen.

Posted by: Jeff Crump at September 30, 2013 06:15 AM (I4fR1)

5 Problem with LIB is that the people who will get hurt the most are the ones that hate Obama the most as well. If you're on welfare and have an Obamaphone, when the phone goes away and your EBT is cut in 1/2, life won't be that much different. But when you make $100K a year, have a nice comfy middle class life and then have to live in a tent....that's a shitty change.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:15 AM (HDgX3)

6 And even if it burns and from the ashes comes a super duper awesome new republic, it will take years if not decades to happen. I personally don't want to live in a tent for the next 20 years waiting for it to happen.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:16 AM (HDgX3)

7 Well, yes. 20 years ago the mantra was that government was incompetent because all the smart people were earning more money in the private sector, so we had to increase federal wages and benefits to bring them into government. 20 years later, people of roughly the same caliber as before are in government but they make better money and get better benefits. We are being manipulated and propagandized and they are using our own money to do it.

Posted by: joncelli at September 30, 2013 06:17 AM (RD7QR)

8 The deck is not stacked against the American people. The People voted for this, twice. The American people are at least as much to blame for Obamacare as Obama himself.

Posted by: Paul at September 30, 2013 06:17 AM (JM48I)

9 Let It Burn means society's pillars are toppled and no one knows how things will end up. Scary, but better than Socialism.

Posted by: eman at September 30, 2013 06:18 AM (AO9UG)

10 I'm curious... are there any rumors of denial of service attacks on the exchanges when they open tomorrow?  (I'm not plugged into the hacker community).

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 30, 2013 06:18 AM (UypUQ)

11 9 Let It Burn means society's pillars are toppled and no one knows how things will end up.

Scary, but better than Socialism.

Posted by: eman at September 30, 2013 11:18 AM (AO9UG)


I don't think a majority of the people believe that anymore. The propaganda worked.

Posted by: joncelli at September 30, 2013 06:19 AM (RD7QR)

12 I love watching DrewM morph from the RINO fan of realpolitik he once was to the principled conservative he is becoming.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 30, 2013 06:19 AM (/kU/5)

13 Easy. Rewrite the amendment to include language that changes the formula for retirement benefits and caps pay raises for the next 10 years. No should be allowed to avoid the pain by simply stealing more tax money from the citizens who create it.

Posted by: holygoat at September 30, 2013 06:19 AM (vAiDn)

14 Death by a thousand cuts. What ever stance you take against Obamacare is fine with me. Oppose it, or embrace it's failure. Just keep hammering away. Every sarcastic comment to a coworker or friend will bleed a tiny drop of blood out of this massive Failboat.

Posted by: Eton Cox at September 30, 2013 06:19 AM (QCc6B)

15 Hey, the USA had a good run.

Posted by: brak at September 30, 2013 06:19 AM (iEoiA)

16 Can someone explain to me why the delay camp shutdown is genius while defund camp shutdown was the worst thing in the world?

Posted by: blaster at September 30, 2013 06:19 AM (W6bkf)

17 10 I'm curious... are there any rumors of denial of service attacks on the exchanges when they open tomorrow? (I'm not plugged into the hacker community). Posted by: Serious Cat at September 30, 2013 11:18 AM (UypUQ) _________ Isn't the hacker "community" pretty much in love with Obama?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:20 AM (HDgX3)

18 Fuck you.  Fuck you all.

Do you not realize that this path leads to bloodshed?  Do you not realize that?

And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies?  There isn't any way that the fifty states will stay together; they'll pull apart if they can.  And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse.

The founding of America was a literal miracle, done by men who cared more about the future of the country they were creating than their own power and riches.  We will not see their like again.  Ever.

You want to Let It Burn, etc?  Set yourself on fire first.

Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 06:20 AM (xd4GQ)

19 I have been thinking a lot lately about "the rights of man" and "natural law." It was obvious to pretty much everyone around 1800 that slavery was a violation of the rights of man and natural law as expressed in the Declaration of Independence. It is now illegal to make someone into a slave even if the Majority of people votes to do so. It is something that has been moved beyond the power of Majority/Democracy. It occurs to me that confiscating the fruits of a person's labor is very much like slavery in a sense. It is just a question of degree. If you confiscate 100% of the fruits of their labor, it is defacto slavery. Lesser amounts equate to lesser slavery. There ought to be some fixed percentage beyond which a Majority cannot take. It should be enshrined in our law.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:20 AM (bb5+k)

20 The solution is a flat tax of 10% for all incomes from all sources.  Once everyone has a hand in ante to the pot they will vote accordingly.  When 50% of the people working pay no taxes and rest of the people live off the State for their entire lives and pass that on to their children there is no consequences to them.

Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 06:20 AM (zZbNF)

21 16 Can someone explain to me why the delay camp shutdown is genius while defund camp shutdown was the worst thing in the world? Posted by: blaster at September 30, 2013 11:19 AM (W6bkf) __________ Because Boehner is for the former while racist, reich-wing TeaBaggers are for the latter. - Karl Rove

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:20 AM (HDgX3)

22 4 I'm with you. The only way to end this train wreck is to let it happen. Posted by: Jeff Crump at September 30, 2013 11:15 AM (I4fR1) This is why i'm absolutely against delaying Obamacare. This shit sandwich needs to be eaten while still steaming.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:21 AM (bb5+k)

Posted by: Allan Gee at September 30, 2013 06:21 AM (vtIiz)

24 20 The solution is a flat tax of 10% for all incomes from all sources. Once everyone has a hand in ante to the pot they will vote accordingly. When 50% of the people working pay no taxes and rest of the people live off the State for their entire lives and pass that on to their children there is no consequences to them. Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 11:20 AM (zZbNF) ___________ bbbbbbut everyone pays sales tax and gas tax - LIBTARD

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:22 AM (HDgX3)

25 17 10 I'm curious... are there any rumors of denial of service attacks on the exchanges when they open tomorrow? (I'm not plugged into the hacker community). Posted by: Serious Cat at September 30, 2013 11:18 AM (UypUQ) _________ Isn't the hacker "community" pretty much in love with Obama? --- I think they love Obama up until the point where he pisses on one of their pet causes One thing working in their favor is that they love picking on soft targets, as they head for the hills when they start getting a response from the Mexican mobs. Obama being a pussy means they may be able to get away with a lot.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 30, 2013 06:22 AM (/Crba)

26

What most don't realize, is that Obamacare is another shift of wealth through the tax system.

 

It will be in companies interest to dump their employees onto the private market... compensating them for the extra expense (MAYBE)... which makes that all taxable income....

 

That money is then used to subsidize health insurance for the poor...

 

And so those 30 million Americans who did not have health insurance will cost the Tax Payer Billions... and we will still end up with about 30 million without health insurance according to CBO... and that does not even include the upcoming Armageddon of the combination Free Heathcare plus Amnesty for Illegals...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 06:23 AM (lZBBB)

27 So even if the Vitter amendment passes and congressional staffers are forced onto the ObamaCare exchanges, the self-dealing bastards in DC will find away to protect themselves while costing taxpayers more money. Swell. Still looking for the vote totals on repealing the Grassley Amendment. Still looking. Also the reality is "Let it burn" is happening whether or not you want it to and whether or not anything comes of the CR/Debt Ceiling fights. Our financial and political DOOM is on auto-pilot at this point. Taking sides on an issue here or there doesn't change that. That is an excellent point. I am on Team Here Lemme Dump On Some More Kerosene but I am on that team because that which cannot go on forever won't. It just won't. I don't want it to burn. Me and mine are going to be among the first to go down (please God, I don't want to have to pick through the ruins). But it is going to burn. It's not my damn fault for being minimally aware enough to be able to recognize this. It's also not my damn fault for recognizing that the overwhelming majority of our Federal political class truly believes that the unicorns will save them. I do hope that I get to see the wailing and gnashing of the teeth before I get taken out though.

Posted by: alexthechick - Bring the SMOD at September 30, 2013 06:23 AM (VtjlW)

28 Viridian, settle down. Guess what? This nation was born of blood and fire and it didnt stop with the American Revolution. Remember the civil war? Why does it seem so far fetched that our nation would convulse with spasms of violence?

Posted by: fastfreefall at September 30, 2013 06:23 AM (qnIhA)

29


What if they threw a government shut down and nobody came ?

 



 

Posted by: drewd at September 30, 2013 06:23 AM (Xv7f/)

30 Isn't the hacker "community" pretty much in love with Obama? Not since the NSA scandal broke. A lot of libertarian types that don't vote at all. If they do vote, though, they vote usually vote dem for social issues.

Posted by: brak at September 30, 2013 06:24 AM (iEoiA)

31 8 The deck is not stacked against the American people.The People voted for this, twice. The American people are at least as much to blame for Obamacare as Obama himself. Posted by: Paul at September 30, 2013 11:17 AM (JM48I) It is, and has long been my personal opinion that only those who are net contributors should have the right to vote. About the opinions of non-contributors, a shit I do not give. With that in mind, I have long regarded many elections as defective on the face of it. No representation without taxation.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:24 AM (bb5+k)

32

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 11:22 AM (HDgX3)

 

I postulated the war cry of the Second American revolution will be...

 

"No Representation without Taxation"

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 06:25 AM (lZBBB)

33

Easy. Rewrite the amendment to include language that changes the formula for retirement benefits and caps pay raises for the next 10 years. No should be allowed to avoid the pain by simply stealing more tax money from the citizens who create it.

 

 

Even easier suggestion: rewrite the amendment to remove Congressional staffers from the federal retirement system.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at September 30, 2013 06:25 AM (JxMoP)

34 And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? There isn't any way that the fifty states will stay together; they'll pull apart if they can. And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse. --- Fifty states aren't making it through this in one piece even if the status quo remains, as California, Illinois, New York, Rhode Island, and a few other states are on the brink and don't seem to be correcting their issues.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 30, 2013 06:25 AM (/Crba)

35 I want to Let it Burn but a part of me still wants to try and save this country by stopping full blooded socialism. Whatever happens, happens but this country has become a sad spectacle when turning off the panda cam is a talking point to keep us drowning in red ink.

Posted by: jjshaka at September 30, 2013 06:25 AM (kbWfM)

36 What if they threw a government shut down and nobody came ? Posted by: drewd at September 30, 2013 11:23 AM (Xv7f/) unfortunately, with America becoming one large welfare State, that is not longer possible

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 06:25 AM (1RQeV)

37 Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 11:20 AM (zZbNF)

I agree....mostly.

A tax without any deductions, with three income levels (10%-13%-16% as a start) will be an easier sell to the LIVs who will see a flat tax as "UNFAIR TO THE WORKING MAN!"

But as you say; everyone must have skin in the game, or we are lost.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 30, 2013 06:26 AM (/kU/5)

38 The deck is simply stacked against the American people (and too many of them are willing accomplices so long as they get their 30 pieces of silver from their representatives).

***

That is definitely true and I would be outraged except I exceeded m,y outrage quota when I read in the ONT that Tseedbump is still getting his EBT card filled.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 30, 2013 06:26 AM (Hx5uv)

39 There is an alternative to LIB that I have hoped for.  That is the Art V convention.  Each State gets one vote and there are more red States than blue States.



Trying to tighten up the rules and pull the power back to the States is better than burning it down and turning into Mel Gibson in a modified trash car.

Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 06:27 AM (zZbNF)

40 I cut myself to feel alive.  Please don't take away the pain.

Posted by: The Middle Class at September 30, 2013 06:27 AM (UzPAd)

41 This is why i'm absolutely against delaying Obamacare. This shit sandwich needs to be eaten while still steaming.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 11:21 AM (bb5+k)

_______________________________

This^.  I am worried about enacting another feral program though.  One enacted it will never go away.  Ever.  The only way it goes away is for our whole system to crash and burn, which I believe will happen.  Not really looking forward to it though.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at September 30, 2013 06:27 AM (32Ze2)

42 Do you not realize that this path leads to bloodshed? Do you not realize that? Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 11:20 AM (xd4GQ) Do you not realize that the current path leads to bloodshed? More and worse? Communism killed 100 million people last century. Figure it out.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:27 AM (bb5+k)

43 We're  trapped  in  the  exponential  growth  of  debt,  public  and  private  and  all  exponential  functions  blow  up.   The  Demon  Math  rules  out  any  other  outcome. There  is  no  choice  and  no  way  at  this  point  to  avoid  the  pain.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at September 30, 2013 06:28 AM (rXcBX)

44

Oh.... and Vitters bill (which will never pass) did not go far enough...

 

You need to either implement it ALL, or get rid of it ALL... because otherwise the numbers have no chance at all of working, and busts the budget.

 

Not to mention that whole idea that a Republic is based on the idea that everyone is equal under the Law....

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 06:28 AM (lZBBB)

45 Question...if "moral hazard" is creating incentives for people to do the wrong thing, what would the term be for encouraging people to do wrong, self-destructive things, then shackling everyone to those people so everyone goes down with them? ...yeah, I know, sorta know the answer already, just want the Horde's colorful creativity on this one.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 06:28 AM (naUcP)

46 Leftists have been whining about WalMart not paying enough so that employees have to go on Medicaid. Obamacare is basically this, but for the whole country. And now leftists celebrate when Trader Joes announces they will dumb all of their employees on the exchanges. You'd think the "best and brightest" in the GOP could make an argument out of this to the masses. I know, I know....

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:28 AM (HDgX3)

47 9 Let It Burn means society's pillars are toppled and no one knows how things will end up.
Scary, but better than Socialism.
Posted by: eman at September 30, 2013 11:18 AM (AO9UG)

Socialism will even out the inequalities.

Posted by: Robert Reich's elevator shoes at September 30, 2013 06:28 AM (Rla3K)

48 Yes, we have a Civil War to keep the union together.  Let It Burn means letting the government fail, causing the fifty states to revert to governing themselves at best and having no government at all at worst.  It means decades, perhaps generations of uncertainty about the future and considering people who used to be fellow Americans to be your enemies.

And for what?  You don't even know.

America is still fixable.  Its bones are still secure.  It's true there are going to be financial difficulties but that doesn't mean we have to actively agitate for the country to come apart at the seams.

Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 06:28 AM (xd4GQ)

49 LIB never left... it's inside all of us, waiting to be ignited. Slightly off topic: Have I reached a maturity point in life when I no longer route for NFL teams to win, but instead lose? I enjoy the lamentation of the women at work when Houston flops.

Posted by: cajun caret at September 30, 2013 06:29 AM (UZQM8)

50 Fuck you. Fuck you all.

Do you not realize that this path leads to bloodshed? Do you not realize that?

And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? There isn't any way that the fifty states will stay together; they'll pull apart if they can. And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse.

The founding of America was a literal miracle, done by men who cared more about the future of the country they were creating than their own power and riches. We will not see their like again. Ever.

You want to Let It Burn, etc? Set yourself on fire first.

***

So we should just bend over and think of Washington?  The truth is that if we continue to accept this socialist crap, America is dead.  So we're damn if we do and damned if we don't.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 30, 2013 06:29 AM (Hx5uv)

51 A couple of things are going on here. From a purely practical perspective, perhaps it is better to hasten the collapse of the civil society (and please be very careful of what you wish for). But from a political side, we need to have leaders, like Ted Cruz, who are willing to articulate their principles - what the vast majority of Americans have been starved of for years now - in order to set the stage for future political victory. Then again, if it all collapses, the latter is totally moot.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 30, 2013 06:29 AM (WjLUf)

52 28 Viridian, settle down. Guess what? This nation was born of blood and fire and it didnt stop with the American Revolution. Remember the civil war? Why does it seem so far fetched that our nation would convulse with spasms of violence?

Posted by: fastfreefall

***


Before BO's done he will try to confiscate firearms.  When he does, convulsions of violence won't seem at all farfetched. 

A truth that is incovenient to the gun seizing liberals is that Lexington and Concord were all about government efforts to seize citizen owned firearms and ammunition by force.  Barky wants to test just how much DNA from the Revolution is really left in the American people.  

If there is any phrase that should replace "In God We Trust" on the money it is "Molon Labe".

 

Posted by: Powderhouse at September 30, 2013 06:30 AM (Xv7f/)

53 For me, Let It Burn is just giving the people what they want, good and hard. We have become unserious nummy people. We think we can have everything without cost. It doesn't work that way.

Posted by: blaster at September 30, 2013 06:30 AM (W6bkf)

54 I'd be all for LIB if I had a place to ride out the shitstorm. But let's face it, if America collapses into chaos, the world will be in chaos. There will be no escape. And if your reply is "yeah but I have guns and a million rounds", great. Someone else will have 2 million rounds. Is this really how you want to live? Not me.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:31 AM (HDgX3)

55 Trying to tighten up the rules and pull the power back to the States is better than burning it down and turning into Mel Gibson in a modified trash car. Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 11:27 AM (zZbNF) Where we're going, we don't need roads...

Posted by: cajun caret at September 30, 2013 06:31 AM (UZQM8)

56 America is still fixable. Its bones are still secure. You know that Adams quote I'm so fond of? A free republic has requirements. I'm not convinced we meet them any longer. Letting Pain convene his symposium may be the only thing for it, now.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 06:31 AM (naUcP)

57

Let It Burn ®

 

 

I might piss on the flames. No promises, tho. 

Posted by: Beefy at September 30, 2013 06:31 AM (yn6XZ)

58

>>

It's a potent reminder that while the fight we we're watching is between Democrats and Republicans and Republicans against Republicans, the real battle is between the permanent political class and the people who create the wealth these leaches confiscate it from.

>>

 

Amen, brother.

Posted by: MisterMoney at September 30, 2013 06:32 AM (wN82N)

59

I was on board with "Let it Burn" after the election. People who would re-elect that lying socialist SOB deserve what they get.

 

But maybe it's the engineer in me, or I'm just passive aggressive, but I don't see why any Republican would EVER vote for any bill with ObamaCare funding in it. It killed the would-be recovery, it's destroying the 40 hour work week, and it's going to cost a fortune when disaster looms. How is this not a "no-brainer"?

 

 

"Let it Burn" would just result in some mutated "fixed" form of ObamaCare that's just as bad.

 

Posted by: Optimizer at September 30, 2013 06:32 AM (Mxt9o)

60 People will always choose the certainty of a shit sandwich over the uncertainty of starving.  

It's the classic Prisoner's Dilemma decision-making problem in the face of factors you can't control or predict, only with shit sandwiches. 

Posted by: Phinn at September 30, 2013 06:32 AM (oFH2D)

61 Remember that Let It Burn doesn't mean we magically return to a decent (small r) republican society.  It took nearly 500 years for Rome to go from the end of their Republic to barbarian wonderland, not including the rump state in the East that survived for another thousand years. 

Posted by: Mr. Mean at September 30, 2013 06:32 AM (Tlix5)

62

ObamaCare is but a piece of the mess the PPC (Permanent Political Class) has created. 

 

While letting it go into effect and burn is one path, it'll be easier to get rid of it in the next congress if it's on delay rather than in force.

 

Once the 47% who pay nothing for everything get their hooks into another freebie, it will be difficult to get the votes to repeal it. 

 

And it needs enough votes to override Barky's veto.

 

Posted by: Boots at September 30, 2013 06:33 AM (oG66P)

63 39 There is an alternative to LIB that I have hoped for. That is the Art V convention. Each State gets one vote and there are more red States than blue States. Trying to tighten up the rules and pull the power back to the States is better than burning it down and turning into Mel Gibson in a modified trash car. Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 11:27 AM (zZbNF) With modern idiocy so prevalent an Article V convention is a most terrifying thought. I cannot conceive of modern people making anything better.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:33 AM (bb5+k)

64 I've always been uncomfortable with Let It Burn. It smells like nihilism, which makes people recoil. It may be that we're headed somewhere we don't like but the way to change direction is to show that the way we want to go is better. I don't see that; Let It Burn is an acknowledgement that people have given up on persuasion and process. That leads in some very ugly directions.

Posted by: joncelli at September 30, 2013 06:33 AM (RD7QR)

65 Salt the burn!!11!!

Posted by: Low Information Voter at September 30, 2013 06:33 AM (Dwehj)

66

Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 11:28 AM (xd4GQ)

 

The Founding Fathers did not create a democracy, because they KNEW the history of Democracies...

 

And we are playing that history out.  Once the Electorate learns that it can vote itself a Free Lunch... it will... even at the expense of its own children (National Debt).  Mobs have a very definite psychology... and part of it is that they can never look into the future...

 

The only way America can survive is with a fundamental change BACK to its founding roots as a Republic... which will never happen as the Majority LIKE their free lunches..

 

IMO we are past the place where the system can fix itself... because the perception of the people is that we are a Democracy....

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 06:33 AM (lZBBB)

67

The deck is not stacked against the American people.The People voted for this, twice. The American people are at least as much to blame for Obamacare as Obama himself.

 

I'd tend to agree, except for   a few facts that have   recently  surfaced concerning some election   shenanigans and the IRSS targeting of conservative groups after the 2010 midterm elections.

 

It's not unreasonable  to think that the 2012 election was stolen.  I'm in that camp, as that is where  the evidence leads. In close elections, it doesn't take much fraud to swing it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at September 30, 2013 06:34 AM (0HooB)

68 18 Fuck you. Fuck you all. Do you not realize that this path leads to bloodshed? Do you not realize that? And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? There isn't any way that the fifty states will stay together; they'll pull apart if they can. And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse. The founding of America was a literal miracle, done by men who cared more about the future of the country they were creating than their own power and riches. We will not see their like again. Ever. You want to Let It Burn, etc? Set yourself on fire first. Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 11:20 AM (xd4GQ) ------ Doesn't make much sense to kill yourself in a battle. So, no. And it IS a battle the left declared. So, as one founder said years ago, better to fight it now than have my grandkids have to fight it. Anything else would be a cowardly attitude.

Posted by: UWP at September 30, 2013 06:34 AM (vj51i)

69

That "high 3" bullshit can be changed by law.  They did it in New Jersey and that led to the early retiremnts of literally thousands of state workers.  It's high time that Congress delved more into the finances of federal employment since the government now employs over 2.5 million people.  This is a dumb reason to not support forcing Congressional staff on to the exchanges.  Also, paying some staffers a lot more to make up for their insurance costs will result in some people losing their jobs, because Congressional staff allocations are finite.  That would not be a bad thing either.

 

But the real fact is that salaries for Congressional staff are almost immaterial.  They work for relatively low salaries in expectation of the big payoff when they leave for the big six-figure trade association or lobbying firm job, or they go home and back to law school.  There really are very few career Congressional staffers, and even for them a big jack up of their health insurance premiums would not result in more than a handful of them leaving.

Posted by: rockmom at September 30, 2013 06:34 AM (aBlZ1)

70 We just have to accept the fact that the USA as we know it (knew it?) is no longer in existence. We are a European style quasi-socialist democracy. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world either. I'd rather live like the French or Italians than live like Mad Max.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:34 AM (HDgX3)

71 Article V Convention

Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 11:27 AM (zZbNF)

Okay...specifically.

What changes do you see that could change the course of the country?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 30, 2013 06:34 AM (/kU/5)

72 1 Diogenes Lamp @11:14,

It's why I have gotten past "patriotism" for the United States as rendered.

I suspect plenty will not want to get their comrade on.

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 06:34 AM (9jfyN)

73 "Let it Burn" would just result in some mutated "fixed" form of ObamaCarethat's just as bad. The core of "Let It Burn" is, "Stop protecting people from the consequences of their stupidity".

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 06:35 AM (naUcP)

74 43 We're trapped in the exponential growth of debt, public and private and all exponential functions blow up. The Demon Math rules out any other outcome. There is no choice and no way at this point to avoid the pain. Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at September 30, 2013 11:28 AM (rXcBX) We are falling into a black hole singularity. The function is not linear, it's exponential, just as you say. Damage will occur faster and faster with the rate of increase accelerating.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:35 AM (bb5+k)

75 Yeah, this would all be relevant if a government shutdown could in anyway, at all, result in the defunding or delay of Obamacare. Anyone who thinks such a thing will come about because of a shutdown is simply convincing himself at this point.  Anyone who actually thinks Barack Obama is going to sign a delay or defund bill or the Senate is going to blink, after every single poll on the issue indicates Republicans will get most of the blame, is full of so much shit that I can smell them through my computer screen. 

Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at September 30, 2013 06:35 AM (9PYcd)

76 I believe in let it burn, but Obamacare passed will enact a new 'right', just as Social Security did. This means that Obamacare will fail, but they will simply put band-aids on the problem to keep it afloat. The whole of America will have to burn before change is enacted.

Posted by: Mekan at September 30, 2013 06:36 AM (hm8tW)

77 18 Viridian @11:20,

You mad bro?

Who mourns the Holy Roman Empire?

The Democrats want my loyalty to this nation without the Founding Principles of this nation.

They can go fuck themselves.

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 06:36 AM (9jfyN)

78 The Collapse is inevitable. The true goal is to guide it as much as possible and work on how best to guide the Recovery.

Posted by: eman at September 30, 2013 06:37 AM (AO9UG)

79 Just walk away, and there can be an end to the suffering.

Just walk away


Posted by: Lord Humongous at September 30, 2013 06:37 AM (syBFl)

80 My fiddle, please.

Posted by: O'Nero at September 30, 2013 06:37 AM (Dwehj)

81 I am sick and tired of partisan politics, ignorant sluts, hispanic month, black month, gay lesbian and transgendered month, class warfare spurred on by the democrats, unregulated immigration, out of control welfare programs, illegal immigrants getting in state tuition at State Schools, pc crap in every phase of my life. This the fucking United States of AMERICA! Be an AMERICAN, or get the fuck out you worthless fucks. Assimilate don't separate!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 06:37 AM (1RQeV)

82 The Collapse is inevitable.

The true goal is to guide it as much as possible and work on how best to guide the Recovery.

Posted by: eman at September 30, 2013 11:37 AM (AO9UG)




I will gladly accept balkanization.  Right now, we share a country with the left.  That's about all we have in common.

Posted by: EC at September 30, 2013 06:38 AM (GQ8sn)

83 >>America is still fixable. Its bones are still secure. It's true there are going to be financial difficulties but that doesn't mean we have to actively agitate for the country to come apart at the seams. How is America as we know it fixable? We now have a population that is ignorant of basic economics and one that is increasingly reliant on government for their welfare. Not only is this unsustainable it is exactly the goal of Alinskyites like Obama. We have been marching toward economic catastrophe for decades and the current ruling class in DC is hitting the accelerator. There is no turning back now, that ship has sailed. You can choose to live in a socialist America where big government runs every facet of your life. I'd rather see it burn and take my chances on the rebuild.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 30, 2013 06:38 AM (g1DWB)

84 America is still fixable. Its bones are still secure. It's true there are going to be financial difficulties but that doesn't mean we have to actively agitate for the country to come apart at the seams. Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 11:28 AM (xd4GQ) What is wrong with America is that it's people has become programed with defective software. They now embrace ideas which will ultimately destroy them. I fear there will be a purge by fire regardless of what you attempt to stop it. Believe it or not, this is likely the best possible outcome. Zombie movies? Training.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:38 AM (bb5+k)

85 70 We just have to accept the fact that the USA as we know it (knew it?) is no longer in existence. We are a European style quasi-socialist democracy. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world either. I'd rather live like the French or Italians than live like Mad Max. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 11:34 AM (HDgX3) What's the Greek word for "...last of the V-8 interceptors...?"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 30, 2013 06:38 AM (WjLUf)

86 Damage will occur faster and faster with the rate of increase accelerating. --- I guess the question is "Where are we on the curve?"

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 30, 2013 06:39 AM (/Crba)

87 I will say that our side needs to start taking serious precautions for the future.  I'm sure we've all noticed the ramped up rhetorical war against political foes of the ruling regime recently.  It's not a far jump for calling us terrorists to treating us as such.  The wheels are coming off the bus, but when that happens, those who are in the driver's seat are not going to suddenly take responsibility for their actions.  No no, they'll be needing a scapegoat to blame and to punish. 

It may be time to organize our communities to face such an event. 

Posted by: Mr. Mean at September 30, 2013 06:39 AM (Tlix5)

88

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 11:37 AM (1RQeV)

 

Yeah.... when even the TV show 'Hell on Wheels' started going down the path to a Lesbian love scene.... I hit me limit...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 06:39 AM (lZBBB)

89 Have I reached a maturity point in life when I no longer route for NFL teams to win, but instead lose? I enjoy the lamentation of the women at work when Houston flops.  Posted by: cajun caret at September 30, 2013 11:29 AM (UZQM


Texan women?  

Big hair, make-up on with a trowel, drawl, and short-shorts Texan women?

Do they need consoling?

....

And, and J.J. Watt is possibly the biggest immature pussy in the NFL.  

But I digress....

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/b][/u] at September 30, 2013 06:39 AM (JpC1K)

90 It( the reclamation of Liberty) will not be as bad as you think...
The option is the confiscation of your retirement and assests to be determined.



Just grab the bridle and  dig your spurs in..

Posted by: Doctor No at September 30, 2013 06:39 AM (3GuQx)

91 What's the Greek word for "...last of the V-8 interceptors...?"


τελευταία του V-8 αναχαίτισης

Posted by: EC at September 30, 2013 06:40 AM (GQ8sn)

92 I'd settle for a military coup, but most of the leadership in the DoD and JCS has been purged and replaced with political sycophants.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 30, 2013 06:40 AM (WjLUf)

93 48 Viridian @11:28,

The Federal Govt needs to die, and quick.  This nation is an energy producer at heart and our fucktard EPA is requiring us to worship at a State Faith.

It will be far better to have multiple countries on this soil than a minority of Malthusian Death Cultists and Hyper Racist assholes holding our economic liberty hostage.

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (9jfyN)

94 You can choose to live in a socialist America where big government runs every facet of your life. I'd rather see it burn and take my chances on the rebuild. Posted by: JackStraw at September 30, 2013 11:38 AM (g1DWB) ______________ And how will you rebuild exactly? Do you think the LIVs will wake up one day and think, gee you know what, maybe this free market capitalism thing is a good idea after all? Fuck no. They will still want free shit. A good paralell is people who move from NY to Texas to get away from high taxes and the second they get to Texas, they start voting for tax and spend liberals. Why do you think the people who fucked it all up will be on board with creating a NEW REPUBLIC that looks like 1776? You're deluding yourself.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (HDgX3)

95 The House should give the Senate a CR that includes an explicit denial of executive discretion that prohibits the President or any of his appointees from waiving any of the ACA's statutory requirements. Let's see if Reid and Obama want to shut down the government over that.

Posted by: Socrateae at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (6uy7v)

96 Totally OT: Anyone notice that L.C. Greenwood of the Steel Curtain passed away yesterday? RIP

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (WjLUf)

97

Posted by: Mr. Mean at September 30, 2013 11:39 AM (Tlix5)

 

Oh.... and lets see.... just which groups are you a member of???

 

/types into his computer...

Posted by: NSA Anal-ist at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (lZBBB)

98 the TV show 'Hell on Wheels' started going down the path to a Lesbian love scene.... I hit me limit... Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 11:39 AM (lZBBB) Wel lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I mean 2 hot chicks in a lesbian love scene is still ok in my book. I mean this is in HD right?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (1RQeV)

99 #70  I'd rather live like the French or Italians than live like Mad Max. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo
***

The French and the Italians can't afford to live like the French and Italians.  You don't want to live like a Spaniard or a Greek?  Awwww ... Let's ask Monty how much of that TARP bailout money went to the EU banking system to prop up the Euro.  We're broke, we can't afford to baliout the world's socialist paradises anymore.  Europe's in the hot seat, and China floats on a sea of funny money.

Posted by: mrp at September 30, 2013 06:41 AM (HjPtV)

100 Yeah.... when even the TV show 'Hell on Wheels' started going down the path to a Lesbian love scene.... I hit me limit... Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 11:39 AM (lZBBB) ____________ Tell me more about this show...it's called Hell on Wheels you say?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 06:42 AM (HDgX3)

101 Yes, we have a Civil War to keep the union together. Let It Burn means letting the government fail, causing the fifty states to revert to governing themselves at best and having no government at all at worst. It means decades, perhaps generations of uncertainty about the future and considering people who used to be fellow Americans to be your enemies.


Lest you still think the hard left wing thinks of us as "fellow Americans," let me disavow you of that notion.




America is still fixable. Its bones are still secure.



Facts not in evidence.  Unless by "bones," you mean rampant immoral behavior, institutionalized corruption, citizen ignorance, and general apathy.  Helluva skeleton you have there.


 It's true there are going to be financial difficulties but that doesn't mean we have to actively agitate for the country to come apart at the seams.



No agitation needed.  This bitch is on autopilot.

Posted by: grognard at September 30, 2013 06:42 AM (/29Nl)

102 So it's pretty much "the House always wins" with these guys, eh?

Who determines the budget for each Senator and Congressman's DC office? Is it just the limitless well that they can keep returning to to increase their staff's pay, benefits, and office supplies?

Posted by: Lizzy at September 30, 2013 06:42 AM (vvueH)

103 "Now that might not happen. The political risks might be too high for some, if not most, members but I don't think I'd bet on that."

**8


When you have a D-in front of your name there is no consequences. The MfM and Prog-Scum© judges make sure of it.

Posted by: dananjcon at September 30, 2013 06:42 AM (wmU4G)

104

The folks looking for the govt to collapse might want to consider that Obama is a Fabian Socialist (something to look up, if you are unfamiliar), and that this is exactly the goal of Fabian Socialists. The idea is to bring it down, blame capitalism, and remake in a socialist form.

 

 

Anybody who thinks my claim is far-fetched should take a close look at Obama's quote, comparing himself to past presidents. He said he's done better than LBJ (Medicare) and FDR (Social Security). It only makes any sense if you consider that Obama has added his own new massive entitlement, PLUS run up trillions in debt besides (including the so-called "Stimulus").

 

 

He mentioned Lincoln last, presumably an honorable mention for abolishing slavery. So really, why else would someone start a list of greatest presidents with LBJ? (Or FDR, for that matter?)

 

Posted by: Optimizer at September 30, 2013 06:42 AM (Mxt9o)

105 I'd settle for a military coup, but most of the leadership in the DoD and JCS has been purged and replaced with political sycophants. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 30, 2013 11:40 AM (WjLUf) I know a few Navy Dental Officers that we could put in charge and things would work out just fine.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 06:42 AM (1RQeV)

106 Let It Burn is an acknowledgement that people have given up on persuasion and process. That leads in some very ugly directions. Posted by: joncelli at September 30, 2013 11:33 AM (RD7QR) By what argument might you persuade a free shit army that they should give up their free shit? What hope of persuasion exists?

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:43 AM (bb5+k)

107 What changes do you see that could change the course of the country?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 30, 2013 11:34 AM (/kU/5)


Flat 10% tax on all income regardless of source.


Gov spending no more than tax collection from previous year except in time of declared war.


Only tax payers get to vote and it must be more than a few "nickles and dimes".


Term limits for every federal elected official.


Real and meaningful anti-corruption laws with significant penalties.


And a phase out over ten years of all socialist programs including SS.



That is a start

Posted by: Vic at September 30, 2013 06:43 AM (zZbNF)

108 And, and J.J. Watt is possibly the biggest immature pussy in the NFL. say that to his face...

Posted by: brak at September 30, 2013 06:43 AM (iEoiA)

109 You want to Let It Burn, etc? Set yourself on fire first.

Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 11:20 AM (xd4GQ)

 

While not a member of the Let It Burn contigent, I don't think current and future events show a pattern that inevitably leads to armed conflict, whether isolated or widespread, or the disintegration of the country. In fact, I don't pretend or presume to know with any certainty how anything will play out. All I can do is stay in the day and confront the problems in front of me. While it's prudent to prepare for disasters and plan for contingencies, it's a delusional mistake to get caught up in apocalyptic fantasies of any sort.

 

As Drew admitted, the whole Let It Burn idea implies that we happy few have an effect on outcome one way or the other, which I strongly doubt. Imagine passengers chained to their seats on a runaway train. The bridge is out up ahead. These chained passengers happen to know the bridge is out up ahead. They can warn the engineer, sure, but the engineer happens to be deaf or drunk or stoned or all of the above. He isn't listening. So now what?

 

Sometimes there's nothing for it but to figure it out one problem at a time; that is, find a way to unlock these damned chains, and wait for our chance. Whatever happens, it's better to act together than alone.

Posted by: troyriser at September 30, 2013 06:43 AM (V9ol4)

110 I know a few Navy Dental Officers that we could put in charge and things would work out just fine.


Free root canals and busty hygienists for everyone!!!!


Posted by: EC at September 30, 2013 06:43 AM (GQ8sn)

111 There is a problem with LiB.  The enemy has been planning on the Burn for a century.  None of this crap is expected to succeed, it is planned to detonate.  A happy prosperous people, at peace at home and abroad won't have 'the Revolution.'  They understand that, and they have a plan.  Do we really think we can yield ground for a solid century until everything blows up, exactly according to their plan, and then suddenly win?

No, we hold the line and they do not pass.  Do that, actually WIN for a change and we might make it a habit.

We need do nothing to win this fight, all we have to do is hold the RINO faction in line to prevent them doing their normal 'tax collector for the welfare state' thing.

Posted by: John Morris at September 30, 2013 06:44 AM (YhRJW)

112 We didn't start the fire.

Posted by: Billy Joel at September 30, 2013 06:44 AM (LSJmV)

113 I know a few Navy Dental Officers Corporals that we could put in charge and things would work out just fine.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 11:42 AM (1RQeV)



FIFY

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/b][/u] at September 30, 2013 06:44 AM (JpC1K)

114 Bureau of Fabricated Statistics study shows huge positive climate impact from government shutdown, starting with all those bureaucrats not traveling to work. Save the polar bears! Just a thought I had during breakfast. Be sure to pass it along to all your progressive penpals.

Posted by: mindful of the clan webworker at September 30, 2013 06:44 AM (INyZp)

115

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 30, 2013 11:41 AM (1RQeV)

 

Worst part.... they just started it.... and didn't consummate... thus you get the Gay Agenda in there... with no hot Lesbian Girl on Girl Action...

 

Worst possible outcome...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 30, 2013 06:45 AM (lZBBB)

116 Before BO's done he will try to confiscate firearms.... Will Ace still be known as a "smart military blog" when this happens, if troops are used for this purpose? I'd venture to say the Army would lead this effort without one word of dissent.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at September 30, 2013 06:45 AM (Ec6wH)

117

Oh, and as for the Let It Burn stuff, I also agree that America is fixable.  BUT....we need a campaign in 2016 that gets real about that, and I mean a campaign within the Republican Party as well as the general election.  If we spend six months of GOP primaries arguing about abortion and same-sex marriage and who is the most pro-gun, while America goes broke and millions remain unemployed and terrorism runs rampant all over the world, we won't have that campaign and America may not be fixable.  If we fail to run a candidate like Bobby Jindal or Scott Walker or even Chris Christie, guys who have taken on state governments that appeared unfixable and fixed them, or someone like Rand Paul who can get in the weeds of government's true role and the true costs of metastasizing government, then we are part of America's failure.  The time for getting all excited about the latest bomb-throwing backbencher is over. 

 

 

Posted by: rockmom at September 30, 2013 06:45 AM (aBlZ1)

118 My son and I have names for all this:

The Before Time: The Time Before social collapse. 
The Event: The Triggering event of social collapse.
The Burning: The social collapse and its Aftermath.
The After Time: The time of recovery when the Burning is complete.

Collectively, this is known as The Happening.

The trick will be to survive The Burning.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at September 30, 2013 06:45 AM (QXlbZ)

119

what would the term be for encouraging people to do wrong, self-destructive things, then shackling everyone to those people so everyone goes down with them?

-

Socialism

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at September 30, 2013 06:46 AM (9T/th)

120 say that to his face... Posted by: brak at September 30, 2013 11:43 AM (iEoiA)


Tell him to hop a flight to DC.  Not a problem

Perhaps you didn't see him take a swat at a trainer this week who was trying to set his broken nose.  Or his long history of overtalking and underperfoming. 

No whining in the NFL. 

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/b][/u] at September 30, 2013 06:46 AM (JpC1K)

121 70 We just have to accept the fact that the USA as we know it (knew it?) is no longer in existence. We are a European style quasi-socialist democracy. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world either. I'd rather live like the French or Italians than live like Mad Max. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at September 30, 2013 11:34 AM (HDgX3) What makes you think their mode of living isn't going to devolve into Mad Max? I see the Muslims taking over Europe.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 06:46 AM (bb5+k)

122 Screw Obama and every damn fool that voted for him.

Posted by: jmel at September 30, 2013 06:46 AM (koSet)

123 The Democrats want my loyalty to this nation without the Founding Principles of this nation. They can go fuck themselves. Amen.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 06:47 AM (GjYxB)

124

Do you not realize that this path leads to bloodshed? Do you not realize that?

And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? There isn't any way that the fifty states will stay together; they'll pull apart if they can. And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse.

 

 

So, at what point do you man up and stand for something?  March off to the camps with your mouth shut like a good citizen.

Posted by: Havedash at September 30, 2013 06:47 AM (F0WNa)

125

If  it's  any  comfort  the  rest  of  the  world  is  more  boned  than  we  are,  they  are  the  hookers  with  AIDS  and  we're  the  hooker  with  clap.

 

But  in  the  end  everything  has  to  burn,  it's  simply  in  the  math.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at September 30, 2013 06:47 AM (rXcBX)

126

Fuck you. Fuck you all.

 

And good morning to you, too.

 

Do you not realize that this path leads to bloodshed? Do you not realize that?

 

No, of course not.  We think this is all a video game.  Those of us who have been prepping our storerooms and making sure we have guns and ammo are doing it just out of boredom, not out of any concern that we are very close to a tipping point.

 

And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? There isn't any way that the fifty states will stay together; they'll pull apart if they can. And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse.

 

America as it is cannot continue.  The government is illegitimate.  The permanent political class is isolated from the taxpayers.  More and more debt is being added and taxes being raised on an ever-dwindling number of producers.  Detroit has gone bankrupt.  California teeters on the edge of insolvency.

 

The founding of America was a literal miracle, done by men who cared more about the future of the country they were creating than their own power and riches. We will not see their like again. Ever.

 

No, we won't.  But we can certainly support and encourage the men and women who today are attempting to return us to our Constitutional roots.

 

You want to Let It Burn, etc? Set yourself on fire first.

 

What I want is revenge.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at September 30, 2013 06:47 AM (zF6Iw)

127 And how will you rebuild exactly? Do you think the LIVs will wake up one day Only if we let them...

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 06:48 AM (GjYxB)

128 There is a problem with LiB. The enemy has been planning on the Burn for a century. No plan survives contact with the Burning. If we can take solace in anything, it's that these bozos are never as smart as they think they are.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 06:48 AM (naUcP)

129 bring it back?

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at September 30, 2013 06:48 AM (8JJ6O)

130 The Democrats want my loyalty to this nation without the Founding Principles of this nation.

They can go fuck themselves.



I'd really like to set that to music actually.

I think it would go well to the melody of The Battle Hymn of the Republic

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/b][/u] at September 30, 2013 06:48 AM (JpC1K)

131 I don't know about the rest of you saps, but I'm going to start buying up all of the gopher wood I can find.

Posted by: Fritz at September 30, 2013 06:48 AM (UzPAd)

132 I'm tired of all this. Let's dance.

Posted by: toby928 at September 30, 2013 06:49 AM (evdj2)

133 even the TV show 'Hell on Wheels' started going down the path to a Lesbian love scene

***

Did you see the headline on Drudge that the gay actors still feel discriminated?  By golly I'll bet there are times when as much as thirty seconds go by on TV without a homo scene or a sanctimonious lecture about how homosexuality is swell.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 30, 2013 06:49 AM (Hx5uv)

134 Only if we let them... Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 11:48 AM (GjYxB) lol.....thanks for the laugh....i was all gloomy...you brightened my day

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at September 30, 2013 06:49 AM (8JJ6O)

135
And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? ... And what rises from the ashes cannot possibly be better, but it can and probably will be a damn sight worse.

You want to Let It Burn, etc? Set yourself on fire first.
Posted by: Viridian




Oh boo hoo.

The Japanese were firebombed into ashes during WWII, and 15 years later they had a booming economy, skyscrapers, bullet trains and used panty vending machines.

Consider Ragnarok as an opportunity for personal challenge and individual growth.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 30, 2013 06:50 AM (kdS6q)

136 To the LiB group (to which I am partial): please remember that you are not doing this for your kids or grandkids.  The oligarchic state can last for centuries on the corpse of the republican state it replaces. 

"Burning" here isn't a matter of days, weeks, or a few years.  Think centuries.  Yes, social programs will collapse before then, but they will be replaced after the scapegoats are tossed.  If the communists could survive the Great Leap Forward, our oligarchs can possibly get through the collapse of the pensions.  There are no promises as to what the Burning will hold. 

Posted by: Mr. Mean at September 30, 2013 06:50 AM (Tlix5)

137 Big Government remains our mortal foe.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula51 at September 30, 2013 06:50 AM (4p5/2)

138 I prefer fight like a panicked cat to let it burn.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 30, 2013 06:51 AM (pYXiI)

139

18.  Viridian, Fuck You right back. 

You are blind to the irony of your applauding the Founders in the same breath in which you demand incipient revolutionaries just settle down, shut up, and eat their peas.  Quite the heir to Patrick Henry, you are.

The question you should be asking is whether America, as it is and where it is heading, is even worth saving?  A nation no longer able to restrain its appetites; where a craven, dishonest media serves as the agent of a corrupt political party to dupe political illiterates into voting the way commanded by coastal elites; a nation where three hundred million people suffer having five unelected and unaccountable judges, often just one, command them in the most intimate details of their lives and associations; a nation that is unwilling and unable to even control its border, the most basic function of a sovereign state. 

The America you think you can yet save is as dead as ancient Rome. Sacked from within by the homegrown vandals and visigoths who always hated it.

Posted by: Powderhouse at September 30, 2013 06:51 AM (Xv7f/)

140 >>Why do you think the people who fucked it all up will be on board with creating a NEW REPUBLIC that looks like 1776? You're deluding yourself. And you are deluding yourself if you can't or won't see this is exactly where we've been headed for years. Whining that you don't want to live in a tent isn't going to stop it from happening. We aren't France or the UK, we are the lone remaining super power in the world. And we are failing. Institutions are breaking down. We will eventually be Detroit writ large. The only thing keeping the facade of normalcy over the last few years was a cash printing press in DC. That is unsustainable. Countries like France and the UK only survived because there was a free and prosperous United States of America. We aren't just talking about the fall of America we are talking about a realignment of the world order. It doesn't matter whether I want it or not, it's coming. I am hopeful that with the rise of conservative thought we are seeing all around us that when the rebuild happens that will be the vanguard. But if the country is allowed to slip quietly into decline that will be our future, permanent decline. Given the choice, I want the chance to rebuild rather than live with less and less.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 30, 2013 06:51 AM (g1DWB)

141 The time for getting all excited about the latest bomb-throwing backbencher is over.


----

President Romney thanks you.

----

Christie hasn't really fixed anything. He talks a good game.


Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at September 30, 2013 06:51 AM (YmPwQ)

142 Tell him to hop a flight to DC. Not a problem Perhaps you didn't see him take a swat at a trainer this week who was trying to set his broken nose. Or his long history of overtalking and underperfoming. No whining in the NFL. Underperforming? Pro-bowler and AFC defensive player of the year. Every O-line they play gameplays around him. And a class act from what I've heard from those that have interacted with him. He plays with intensity and din't want a trainer to fuss over a cut (it wasn't broken). Big deal. I'd take a teamful of players like him anyday.

Posted by: brak at September 30, 2013 06:51 AM (iEoiA)

143 Totally OT:

Anyone notice that L.C. Greenwood of the Steel Curtain passed away yesterday?

RIP

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 30, 2013 11:41 AM (WjLUf)

__________________________

Terry Bradshaw talked about it on FOX.  Was visually upset.  It must have been unexpected.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at September 30, 2013 06:52 AM (32Ze2)

144 I think it would go well to the melody of The Battle Hymn of the Republic If only that wasn't a yankee song...

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 06:52 AM (GjYxB)

145 No plan survives contact with the Burning. If we can take solace in anything, it's that these bozos are never as smart as they think they are. --- To quote Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the nose." These idiots are probably hoping they can get the FSA to storm everyone and not get shot themselves in the process. Doesn't work if you can spot the instigators in the crowd and let them know that, if the violence starts, they're the first people getting shot.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 30, 2013 06:53 AM (/Crba)

146 I am firmly on team let it burn, but not for the reasons I see sited by others. I don't think it will help anything, even years down the road. No, I simply want to let it burn so the fucking bastards that voted for it experience the hell they want to create. Simple spite, no higher good for me. I know full well I'll be able to take care of me and my family better than 90% of them, so I want to witness 90% of them suffering and lol.

Posted by: Mr Pink at September 30, 2013 06:53 AM (H9VWE)

147 And do you not realize that the instant the first shot is fired, America, as it is, dies? You assume we WANT it "as it is". We don't. For most of us, "America, as it is" is a zombie, a shambling husk of what it once was. We want to put it out of its misery and start anew.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 06:53 AM (naUcP)

148 But the people voted the LEFT into office in the Senate and White House. Immigration, education, and mass media have turned the country more liberal. Sadly, many republican fools embraced it.

Posted by: Dan at September 30, 2013 06:53 AM (m3gf3)

149 ObamaCare is but a piece of the mess the PPC (Permanent Political Class) has created.

Absolutely.

See, this whole fucking shit-pile of a mess exists because of insurance companies. 

I'm as free-market as a guy can get (and still be living on dry land instead of a platform at sea.)  But the Republicans are in the pocket of the financial-and-insurance industry, and have been for pretty much ever. 

ObamaCare is a godsend to them.  Imagine if you ran a business that could admit no new competitors, while the entire country was forced at gunpoint to buy your shitty product.  Welcome to fascism.

So, what do insurance companies have to do with the financial industry?  Everything.  Insurers are just front-men for the stock market.  Insurance companies provide a valuable service -- they take large, unpredictable disasters, and spread their cost out over time. 

In the process, insurers actually PAY OUT AS MUCH OR MORE MONEY THAN THEY TAKE IN in the form of premiums. 

How can they make a profit? It's easy -- the float.  The money they generate, between the time they take it in and pay it out, gets INVESTED.  Those investments pay for all of the administrative costs and the corporate profits, too. 

Insurance companies are glorified investment clubs.  They exist solely to generate a large pool of cash which is then invested in securities. 

So are universities, actually.  Did anyone else notice what just happened to the entire college-funding system ... as a part of ObamaCare?  Yep, it's now all paid for by taxes.  The universities get paid, they invest that money in the financial industry, and students no longer even have to pay it back after 20 years, or at a rate that exceeds x% of their income, which will result in massive partial-defaults.  But the university Investment Clubs will get paid, up front, just the same. 

College classes are the front-of-house-operation, but investment is the back-of-house, and the university system's raison d'etre.  (That's French for "the whole fucking point.") 

Forcing everyone to pay for health insurance (which is a STUPID FUCKING INSURANCE PRODUCT, unless it's for catastrophic care, at a true cost of about $15/month) is just another way to force lots of our money into the hands of ... bankers. 

So is the New and Improved Obama Education "Direct Loan" program. 

Exactly the fucking same. 

Posted by: Phinn at September 30, 2013 06:54 AM (oFH2D)

150 "Leaches"? Forget it, he's rolling.

Posted by: Andy at September 30, 2013 06:54 AM (j7R+R)

151 It is ironic that in the days of my youth it was the left shouting, "Burn, baby, burn!"

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 30, 2013 06:55 AM (Hx5uv)

152
NBCWashington ‏@nbcwashington

The National Zoo's Panda Cam would go dark in the event of a govt. shutdown, zoo officials confirm.




Oh the humanity!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 30, 2013 06:55 AM (kdS6q)

153 Tanned, rested and ready!

Posted by: Mitch Daniels at September 30, 2013 06:56 AM (Ks4nX)

154 Did you see the headline on Drudge that the gay actors still feel discriminated? By golly I'll bet there are times when as much as thirty seconds go by on TV without a homo scene or a sanctimonious lecture about how homosexuality is swell. Posted by: WalrusRex at September 30, 2013 11:49 AM (Hx5uv) Yeah, I'd like to keep a tally on how many shows have a gay marriage story line and it's all so fabulous.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at September 30, 2013 06:56 AM (T0Pku)

155

Sorry for that last run together post.  Could someone explain how to put in a paragraph break?  Thanks.

Posted by: Powderhouse at September 30, 2013 06:56 AM (Xv7f/)

156 144 RickB223 @11:52,

Eh I think the Civil War version 1.0 may be about to be finally over.

Version 2.0 won't be so neat.

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 06:57 AM (9jfyN)

157 We want to put it out of its misery and start anew. Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 11:53 AM (naUcP) Preferably sooner rather than later. The youngins coming up nowadays what America once was so they'll be ok with the new normal.

Posted by: RWC - Bring on O-Care at September 30, 2013 06:57 AM (fWAjv)

158 Sorry for that lastrun together post. Could someone explain how to put in a paragraph break? Thanks.

Posted by: Powderhouse at September 30, 2013 11:56 AM (Xv7f/)



Anytime you think one break is enough, add in another one to be safe.

Posted by: EC at September 30, 2013 06:57 AM (GQ8sn)

159

Can we please refer to it as

 

Abhorable Health Care ?

 

ThankYou

Posted by: seamrog at September 30, 2013 06:57 AM (Ij0ny)

160 The core of "Let It Burn" is, "Stop protecting people from the consequences of their stupidity".

Exactly.  And the recognition that personal and public debt has grown to the point where it must be repudiated, in fact if not in name.  Compound interest is a stone cold bitch who doesn't care what you want.

I just want the New Dollar to have Reagan on it, rather than Barry the Bumbler.

Posted by: toby928 at September 30, 2013 06:57 AM (evdj2)

161

Now that the GOP is doing what we want them to do,  DrewM has to find something else to go off on.   I could give a crap whether someone wants to be a CAVE man (complain about virtually everything)  but  what aggravates me is the demand that  X  does  Y  to satisfy you  and when X does  Y,  the goal posts move to   Y + 1   and then Y+ 2 , etc.      At least ackowledge  Y  and voice and give your support  before you jump right to Y+1.     

 

  

Posted by: polynikes at September 30, 2013 06:58 AM (m2CN7)

162 Back to the sublime--I'd check Obama's approval vectors in light of the shutdown. I think the GOP may take a hit early on, but as we saw at the beginning of 2013 the electorate will adapt to the circumstances and shrug off any economic effects. Obama will be left with the reputation as a failed leader in the eyes of more and more.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at September 30, 2013 06:58 AM (Ec6wH)

163 146 Mr Pink @11:53,

Hate keeps you warm.....gasoline keeps locusts warm.

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 06:58 AM (9jfyN)

164 IIRC, the Vitter amendment also includes mandatory exchange coverage for the president and White House staff, right?

Posted by: mrp at September 30, 2013 06:59 AM (HjPtV)

165 Hollywood probably sees the drop in viewership/ad revenue when they push the gheyness as a primary storyline. It's still workable as a secondary storyline.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at September 30, 2013 06:59 AM (Ec6wH)

166 It appears that several posters believe that LIB is an active philosophy--it is instead a recognition that a government that spends more than it takes in will eventually have to impose such taxes (or inflation) that the whole edifice will topple over.  Those who think that LIB is inconceivable must convince people to give up significant proportions of of what the New Deal and the Great Society promised--Wagner act Unionism, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc. Most of our towering budget problems stem from govt. transfer payments.  Either these promises must be hollowed out or our current society will suffer a financial collapse soon.  The few active LIB'ers simply want the Republicans to do what they want and roll over so that the burn will come sooner rather than later. 


The major question for our society is when does the crisis of sovereign debt occur.  Debt crises are unpredictable but when enough people recognize that virtually all of the world's govt. bonds are in effect worthless--then the burn will occur whether we like it or not.  The default of the world's reserve currency has never happened but look toward Argentina, Russia in the 1990's, post-war Europe, etc.  We will be broke, cold, and impoverished for at least a generation.  Now, default may come through simply inflating the currency away through hyperinflation etc.  Default may also come from formal refusal to pay debt.  Either way, get you and your loved ones a life preserver cause we are going to get wet. 

Posted by: wg at September 30, 2013 06:59 AM (bbvZR)

167 I think that this is the real outrage against the Tea Party. They aren't content to sit back and be ruled by their "betters."

Posted by: Boone at September 30, 2013 07:00 AM (3p8HS)

168 You assume we WANT it "as it is". We don't. For most of us, "America, as it is" is a zombie, a shambling husk of what it once was. We want to put it out of its misery and start anew. We want "what it was", not "as it is".

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 07:00 AM (GjYxB)

169 I prefer fight like a panicked cat to let it burn. Room for both, bro. Honestly, we're rooting for you...we're just making sure our bets are hedged.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 07:00 AM (naUcP)

170
Hate keeps you warm
Posted by: The Phantom Menace




Anger is an energy

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 30, 2013 07:01 AM (kdS6q)

171 144 RickB223 @11:52, Eh I think the Civil War version 1.0 may be about to be finally over. Version 2.0 won't be so neat. No. It won't be. It never is. Then again, Version 1.0 wasn't so neat for those that were there.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 07:01 AM (GjYxB)

172 I remember a quote by a hired gun dropped into the Epicenter of Katrina, dogs eating corpses, mass looting, rape of Women. Men , Children and Parakeets...


"If you wonder what the Apocalypse would look like , here it is"


But that was a certain demographic of the population,

No matter what , the Righteous will survive.

Posted by: Doctor No at September 30, 2013 07:02 AM (3GuQx)

173 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 30, 2013 07:02 AM (/PCJa)

174 It means decades, perhaps generations of uncertainty about the future and considering people who used to be fellow Americans to be your enemies.
*******************************************************

Too late, we're already there.

Posted by: Major Kong at September 30, 2013 07:02 AM (ChpRS)

175 Burn it down. Scatter the stones. Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 30, 2013 07:02 AM (/PCJa)

176 Yeah, I'd like to keep a tally on how many shows have a gay marriage story line and it's all so fabulous.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at September 30, 2013 11:56 AM (T0Pku)

 

Season premire of Two and Half  Men  had Charlie Harper's daughter  pick up a chick  to bang.   But I guess that's less gay promoting   and  more guy fantasy fulfilling.   ( disclaimer -  not on my list of  turn ons)   

Posted by: polynikes at September 30, 2013 07:02 AM (m2CN7)

177 In  the  end  Detroit  will  be  everywhere. 

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at September 30, 2013 07:03 AM (rXcBX)

178 171 rickb223 @12:01,

Yeah Vic says it was not all neat photographs and Zouave uniforms....

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 07:03 AM (9jfyN)

179 brb Republicans have crossed a red line

Posted by: lolBama at September 30, 2013 07:03 AM (5ikDv)

180

I think that this is the real outrage against the Tea Party. They aren't content to sit back and be ruled by their "betters."

 

Oh yeah, this is directed  squarely at the TP   from  the ruling class of   both parties. We're all anarchists now because we believe in  the Founder's vision of government, freedom, and the  rule of law where all are  equal.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at September 30, 2013 07:03 AM (0HooB)

181

So, the idea is to make Dems work harder in order for the burning to increase.

 

 

I'm OK wid dat.

 

My only problem now is, if we go into the slowdown, the Panda Cam at the National Zoo will go dark, and talk about losing an essential service. I don't know if I can handle it.

Posted by: Meremortal at September 30, 2013 07:04 AM (1Y+hH)

182 Brother Cavil @ 128 said, "these bozos are never as smart as they think they are.."

Not wanting to make em look ten feet tall or anything but they have been playing us for chumps for a solid century.  All Reagan managed was to slow the rate of retreat, we have not gained a single yard on em.  A perfect unbroken record of fail.

Yea when the Burn happens a lot of the LIVs die.  And the 'intellectuals' who are the backbone of the progs now go up against the wall, that always happens when the revolution comes.  But they have a fair amount of experience with revolutions and coming out on top of them.  So if we want to win I'm saying we need to throw a spanner in the works NOW.  Don't let it go Kaboom!

And we can defeat them right now.  There is literally nothing they can do except rage and launch PR campaigns against us.  Victory is entirely up to us for a change, we hold the line and we win, we fold and the game is over.  Obamacare launches Jan 1 and the final, no coming back line is crossed and the burn isn't an abstract something in the future, it is something we will live through.

Posted by: John Morris at September 30, 2013 07:04 AM (YhRJW)

183 Countries like France and the UK only survived because there was a free and prosperous United States of America. We aren't just talking about the fall of America we are talking about a realignment of the world order. It doesn't matter whether I want it or not, it's coming. I am hopeful that with the rise of conservative thought we are seeing all around us that when the rebuild happens that will be the vanguard. But if the country is allowed to slip quietly into decline that will be our future, permanent decline. Given the choice, I want the chance to rebuild rather than live with less and less.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 30, 2013 11:51 AM (g1DWB)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

 

I have to give the Mayans a bit of credit.  They predicted this.  The end of the world as we know it got on the express train  around the beginning of this year.

 

Maybe what they were predicting was the beginning of the end.

Posted by: Soona at September 30, 2013 07:04 AM (gURHd)

184 Salt the cheeseburger!

Posted by: Meggie McMac at September 30, 2013 07:05 AM (Dwehj)

185 Yeah Vic says it was not all neat photographs and Zouave uniforms.... All that damn parading & marching...

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 07:06 AM (GjYxB)

186

We have some horses that want to run back into the burning barn.

 

 

Happens every time.

Posted by: Meremortal at September 30, 2013 07:08 AM (1Y+hH)

187 Don't burn the McMuffins!

Posted by: Meggie McMac at September 30, 2013 07:08 AM (Dwehj)

188

The Usual Suspects in my world are still not understanding what this will do. If I had a buck for every person who said, "Why are you complaining, NOW you'll be covered!" I could pay to have get my data recovered from my hard drive...(yeah, I blew it. Let backing up slide and POW!)
The point is that the liberal fucktards of the world show how they think when they speak to me like this. And of course, we here, the sane among the asylum get it. I would never leave the people who think like me, just because I now get something I didn't have before. It's about the fucking principle!!!!

Today- Monday sucks. Gahhhh!

Posted by: DefendUSA at September 30, 2013 07:08 AM (S0aj8)

189 No matter what , the Righteous will survive.

Posted by: Doctor No
***

Just enough of them, anyway.

Posted by: mrp at September 30, 2013 07:08 AM (HjPtV)

190 Not wanting to make em look ten feet tall or anything but they have been playing us for chumps for a solid century. All Reagan managed was to slow the rate of retreat, we have not gained a single yard on em. A perfect unbroken record of fail. Posted by: John Morris at September 30, 2013 12:04 PM (YhRJW) You are granting an "intelligence" to a natural phenomena. Look up "Tytler Cyle" or "Kyklos."

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at September 30, 2013 07:11 AM (bb5+k)

191 Since everything TFG touches is destroyed I wonder if this is the Presidential Golf Cart-1. http://tinyurl.com/p9gzp7k

Posted by: RWC - Bring on O-Care at September 30, 2013 07:12 AM (fWAjv)

192

175 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

-----------

Finally, we are getting closer to step #1 of AllenG's process. 

 

Bring. It. On.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at September 30, 2013 07:12 AM (EGPJQ)

193 But they have a fair amount of experience with revolutions and coming out on top of them. Then why do they keep playing the same scripts? Trust me, once the thugs see they don't need the "smart set" any more, the smart set starts winding up in mass graves. And it's always for the same reason--when civil society breaks down, it's about coercion, and at base, that's force. And that's the thug's specialty.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 07:15 AM (naUcP)

194 Completely O/T: I hate delimited files w/ variable record lengths. I especially hate them when I find out I could have been using XML the whole time. That is all.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 30, 2013 07:15 AM (/PCJa)

195

Really?  Federal employees, who can vote themselves and their staffers pay increases are going to... vote themselves and their staffers pay increases????

 

How is that possible?  This must be Crazy Monday or something. 

Posted by: BurtTC at September 30, 2013 07:15 AM (TOk1P)

196 Burn it down. Scatter the stones. Salt the earth where it stood. ----------- Finally, we are getting closer to step #1 of AllenG's process. Bring. It. On. The AllenG Prophecies. Shame he doesn't have a blog...

Posted by: rickb223 at September 30, 2013 07:15 AM (GjYxB)

197 193 Brother Cavil @12:15,

The other "easy mode" version of rules lawyering they run is they try to keep violence in their hands alone.

If/when the right finally indulges its harder angels that particular "penumbra" will be gone.

Posted by: The Phantom Menace at September 30, 2013 07:16 AM (9jfyN)

198

And we can defeat them right now. There is literally nothing they can do except rage and launch PR campaigns against us. Victory is entirely up to us for a change, we hold the line and we win, we fold and the game is over. Obamacare launches Jan 1 and the final, no coming back line is crossed and the burn isn't an abstract something in the future, it is something we will live through.

 

I must  disagree. Anything the government has done, the government can undo.

 

As the number of working  Americans shrinks or   sees their hours cut back to part time, as the economy sinks further into the abyss and more and more people's   standard of living is reduced, the political will  to change will only grow. What we're seeing today is a larger version of the Carter era. Folks got tired of  that pretty quickly and elected Ronaldus Maximus as a result. I don't know who this   next RWR  will be, but he or she is out there  already.

 

A leader who can articulate the failures of Progressivism in plain everyday language is what we need. It's not hard to do,   and the avenues of communication are already here to bypass the MFM: YourFace and Tweeter and the rest. Challenge the MFM at every opportunity and become as vocal  and determined as the Leftards are, even moreso. Don't back down and  always challenge the narrative with the truth and facts.

 

Reality wins every time. Point out circumstances on the ground that everyone can relate  to,  how the Left created the problems and present the solutions, which are always freedom in its  various forms. Speak of Principle and be strong about it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at September 30, 2013 07:17 AM (0HooB)

199 OT...big train crash in Chicago.  Call me crazy but there has been a lot of train incidents lately. In NY as we speak, a major artery has been shut down and won't be operational for weeks. This is kind of the shit that cripples economies- consistent vandalism of infrastructure-slow bleed.


Posted by: dananjcon at September 30, 2013 07:17 AM (wmU4G)

200

Spent some time in Mexico  week  before last.  Many are planning  a revolution against their government.  They're getting organized.  They're using  FB and email.

 

I asked them if they were afraid of being monitered organizing like that, and they said, the government was powerless to stop it.   And if  they tried    they would organize one way or the other.   I admire them.

Posted by: Soona at September 30, 2013 07:17 AM (gURHd)

201 I say Let It Burn. The only problem with IT though is that IT is US, and who's excited about that? It's like voting for a tax increase. If only there were a way to increase taxes on all the Democrats and RINO voters and insulate ourselves.

Posted by: Andrew at September 30, 2013 07:17 AM (VjlMj)

202 Or it could simply be incompetent union hacks sandbagging their jobs.


Posted by: dananjcon at September 30, 2013 07:18 AM (wmU4G)

203 202 Or it could simply be incompetent union hacks sandbagging their jobs. --- It could be the result of various agencies involved cutting costs on maintenance, etc., which is fine until it bites them in the ass, at which point they're fucked for a while.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 30, 2013 07:21 AM (/Crba)

204 Given the consistent unpopularity of Obamacare, many people who are opposed to it MUST have voted for Obama in 2012.  Now you know how completely fucked up this country is.

I'm against the shutdown, but fuck it, if you're going to do it, let's go all in.  No one day shutdown and the Republicans cave.  Keep it shut down -- for weeks or even months -- until the Democrats compromise.


Posted by: not a pussy at September 30, 2013 07:22 AM (yhJhK)

205 It could be the result of various agencies involved cutting costs on maintenance, etc., which is fine until it bites them in the ass, at which point they're fucked for a while.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 30, 2013 12:21 PM (/Crba)

 

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

 

My fear is when this spreads to the airlines.

Posted by: Soona at September 30, 2013 07:22 AM (gURHd)

206 The other "easy mode" version of rules lawyering they run is they try to keep violence in their hands alone. Conundrum: You want a monopoly on force, but you're relying on people you don't like to provide it. Really, that ends well.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at September 30, 2013 07:23 AM (naUcP)

207 "The founding of America was a literal miracle, done by men who cared more about the future of the country they were creating than their own power and riches. We will not see their like again. Ever.

Posted by: Viridian at September 30, 2013 11:20 AM (xd4GQ) "



Yeah, those guys would never stand for this shit, or any of the shit that lead up to it.

Their take long ago would have read something like "Tree of liberty. Blood of patriots. Some assembly required."

Personally, I'm not so sure the union deserves to survive. I'm at least open to the idea that splitting it into two or more sovereign nations would be the best solution for the highest number of people.

Posted by: holygoat at September 30, 2013 07:23 AM (vAiDn)

208 Diogenes' Lamp @ 190 said, "Look up 'Tytler Cyle' or 'Kyklos.'"

Yea, well that Glenn Beck stuff is nice and there is a certain intellectual justfication for surrender to the 'irresistable forces of history' and all but I prefer to fight until actually defeated on the field.  Regardless whether it is the intelligence of the enemy, the remorseless forces of nature or the hand of Fate itself opposing me.  Some things are worth fight for and the reward is in the struggle.

The 'reasonable' people never make history, because they 'know' you can't win so they never try.  All change comes from unreasonable people.  I'm feeling really unreasonable lately.  To hell with negotiations, bipartisanship and compromise.  Time now for drawing lines and desperate last stands.  If we are going down let it be after all shot is fired, every shield shattered, every thing that could be done has been done.

Posted by: John Morris at September 30, 2013 07:24 AM (YhRJW)

209 But they have a fair amount of experience with revolutions and coming out on top of them. So if we want to win I'm saying we need to throw a spanner in the works NOW. Don't let it go Kaboom! I agree that we should work to avoid the burning, but I vehemently disagree that the left holds an advantage when it comes to a reshuffling of the deck. Pinochet showed the way. The left always wind up killing millions or tens of millions of people because they insist on forcing people to act the way they want them to act. Pinochet killed a couple thousand (at most even if you believe the virulent lefty lies), and Chile is doing great compared to all of its basket case neighbors throughout Latin America. Rather than advancing a competing agenda or forcing people to behave in a certain way, the key to successfully combating leftism before it inevitably grows into a movement killing millions is to make examples of enough leftists early enough to teach wannabe leaders to bite their tongues and keep their agitating mouths shut. Fight hard to prevent the burning, but when it comes anyway, keep Pinochet's example in mind.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 30, 2013 07:28 AM (V3kRK)

210 I live in a van down by the river

Posted by: art garfunkels ugly kid at September 30, 2013 07:28 AM (1r4+8)

211 BackwardsBoy @ 198 said, "elected Ronaldus Maximus"

Who slowed the rate of decline but was powerless to change the direction of movement.  And he was the once in a lifetime leader we dreamed of and should not count on another anytime soon.

Sooner or later we really have to at least try to win something.  I say we can win this current fight and now is as good a time as any.

Posted by: John Morris at September 30, 2013 07:30 AM (YhRJW)

212 Personally, I'm not so sure the union deserves to survive. I'm at least open to the idea that splitting it into two or more sovereign nations would be the best solution for the highest number of people. Posted by: holygoat Actually, it would probably be a very bad solution for a lot of people, but they don't quite realize it yet. When every city is like Detroit, and every state is bankrupt like Illinois, then it may begin to dawn on people just how bankrupt politics really is.

Posted by: Low Information Republican Squish at September 30, 2013 07:43 AM (RFeQD)

213 This all sounds good to me.

Posted by: John Galt at September 30, 2013 07:58 AM (Xhp1L)

214 I want to thank President Obama for making everybodys life as Shitty as mine in Detroit. ThankYou Sir............

Posted by: Typical Fat Ass Lib on the Government Free Handout List at September 30, 2013 08:03 AM (90aTA)

215 another application of "let it burn" gas of fire... data from CATO website quoting Center for Disease Control old Statistics: An American is 8X more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist. /whether by error or malicious abuse. A police officer is 130X more like to be caught in act of misconduct than killed in the line of duty. William B. Scott, "The Permit" book release. Old tradition of the beat cop approach to confrontation, to use in sequential order the brain, mouth, baton, then lethal force pulling the gun. Young cops ages 20-40s as a generation have wired first response to shoot to kill whether confronted or not. "Thirteeners" /Twisted, given that our Military personnel abroad are under the Rules of Engagement forbidding shooting first. Making our Police Militant.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 30, 2013 08:04 AM (MhA4j)

216 When you say let it burn now so my kids/grandkids won't have too- how do we know that it won't be worse?  These is not a structured burn, all assumptions are off the table.

Posted by: akak at September 30, 2013 08:06 AM (b4+D1)

217 Now that might not happen. The political risks might be too high for some, if not most, members but I don't think I'd bet on that. *** Not if nobody knows about the trickery.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 30, 2013 08:18 AM (DmNpO)

218 Fight hard to prevent the burning, but when it comes anyway, keep Pinochet's example in mind.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 30, 2013 12:28 PM (V3kRK)

 

Oh, right: death squads and night raids against unarmed men and women, who were tortured and shot and then 'disappeared' into unmarked mass graves or industrial meat grinders, where they ended up as dog food. Great. Can't wait.

 

Fuck Pinochet. That's not how patriots do things in America. We stand up, step up, and fight, up-front and out in the open. I'm not saying--should such a terrible thing as armed insurrection happen--that we array ourselves in Civil War-era battle formations in the age of the machine gun and flying drone. I am saying what we won't and can't do is terrorize the shit out of the population. Good guys, to be good guys, don't murder unarmed civilians in the middle of the night.

Posted by: troyriser at September 30, 2013 08:20 AM (V9ol4)

219 CSpan has had an Obamacare shill on for about a hour now talking about how wonderful Ocare is and, when asked about all the delays, said they shouldn't cause any problems at all.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 30, 2013 08:21 AM (DmNpO)

220 <i>Our financial and political DOOM is on auto-pilot at this point.</i>

Everyone in Russia knew it couldn't get any worse than under the Tsars.

Posted by: Lady Billingsgate at September 30, 2013 08:22 AM (GdalM)

221 It means decades, perhaps generations of uncertainty about the future and considering people who used to be fellow Americans to be your enemies.

No Democrat or accomadationist Republican is an American. Not in terms of mutual defense, and not in terms of basic character.

Americans and those foreigners are already enemeies, this is just a matter of making the status clear.

Posted by: Methos at September 30, 2013 08:23 AM (hO9ad)

222 Carney's presser on Cspan in a few minutes. This should be rich.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 30, 2013 08:27 AM (DmNpO)

223 Posted by: Lady Billingsgate at September 30, 2013 01:22 PM (GdalM) *** []

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 30, 2013 08:27 AM (DmNpO)

224 182 - so we should evaporate all the academics first?  That's a good plan.  Then head to the LIV's? 

Posted by: Jaimo at September 30, 2013 08:29 AM (9U1OG)

225

"Let It Burn is an acknowledgement that people have given up on persuasion and process. That leads in some very ugly directions."

 

 

Bingo. Just listen to any   of the Democrats, either on the floor of the Congress or in the media,   and tell me that they are persuadable.

 

If violence comes it will be because the Left has shut down all civil discourse.

Posted by: LGoPs at September 30, 2013 08:37 AM (IpueY)

226 I am saying what we won't and can't do is terrorize the shit out of the population. Good guys, to be good guys, don't murder unarmed civilians in the middle of the night. Go ahead and stand true to your ideals. You can use that to console yourself and those you love while you all starve to death in the reeducation camps. Your ideals are wrong, and pushing them is effectively the same as carrying the left's water for them.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 30, 2013 08:38 AM (V3kRK)

227 Oh, right: death squads and night raids against unarmed men and women, who were tortured and shot and then 'disappeared' into unmarked mass graves or industrial meat grinders, where they ended up as dog food. Great. Can't wait. And another thing: You seem to have no problem whatsoever swallowing the left's version of what happened. Leftist agitators are a cancer. There are plenty of examples from the last century alone of what happens when that cancer is allowed to metastasize in the chaos of a collapsed society.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 30, 2013 08:41 AM (V3kRK)

228 And another thing: You seem to have no problem whatsoever swallowing the left's version of what happened. Come to think of it, you did the exact same thing during the Zimmerman trial. You stuck to the talking point lies that Crump and his co-conspirators in the MFM pushed to get the story on the national radar, and you were doing it long after the major outlets stopped pushing the lies. What is your malfunction, you fucking dumbshit?

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 30, 2013 08:52 AM (V3kRK)

229 Jaimo @ 224 said, "so we shouldevaporate all the academics first? That's a good plan. Then head to the LIV's?"

Uh, can you name a revolution where that doesn't happen?  It is tragic/comic that the university commies who always help launch the revolution and act as the first troops end up against the wall when the actual Communists seize power.  Because the uni agitators believe the propaganda and think they, the enlightened intellectuals, will be running things in an intellectual enlightened way... meanwhile the hard men with machineguns have different ideas.  And have the machineguns.

Posted by: John Morris at September 30, 2013 10:03 AM (YhRJW)

230 I can only hope FTL is a moby. Sadly, he may not be. Ugh.

I have to stop reading any of these Drew "let it burn" threads. I find some of the rhetoric here just about as repellent as that of 60s revolutionary leftists (e.g. weathermen, maoists , liberation armies etc.), or cultist millennarianists, or "anarchists" throwing molotov cocktails at WTO summits, or wannabe jihadis, etc.

Fucking stupid fantasies of revolution or total societal breakdown, chaos and mass bloodshed, somehow(?) leading to a perfect utopian future (or a return to some utopian past state). Oh, fuck off, please.

1. Chaos and slaughter, societal apocalypse.
2. ?
3. Profit!

Meanwhile, those willing to face, acknowledge, live in the eternally flawed fallen world of flawed imperfect sinful human beings as it is (I thought that was a "conservative" quality, which I've always loved), who love that world of us sinners, who care to preserve that which they love and value, serious about engaging in the real, messy, flawed, imperfect, disappointing system of actual democratic <i>politics</i>, are the only ones who have a chance of affecting or determining our nation's future.

Or go ahead, keep dreaming and talking about apocalypse. Let it burn, yeah baby! That's really persuasive. That'll get Americans to come around to a conservative POV. That'll get people to listen to the Tea Party. (PS I love the original Tea Party message.) If dreaming and hoping for apocalypse is what "conservatism" is about now, count me the fuck out. Not that you'll miss me, of course-- I guess I'm an "enemy" now. (Rolling eyes.)



Posted by: lael at September 30, 2013 03:29 PM (1rj9K)

231 PS After societal collapse and economic chaos, people don't seek and are not receptive to (a rhetoric or ideology or political system based on) "liberty."

No. They're desperate for order and security. It will usher in fascism, totalitarianism, tyranny-- not limited government, but the opposite.

That's not a brave new world I'd be yearning for.

The American Constitution is a miracle of history. If the society (ours) in which it is enshrined is totally scrapped, burned the ground, there is no reconstituting it. It's gone.

Posted by: lael at September 30, 2013 04:02 PM (1rj9K)

232 "Fucking stupid fantasies of revolution or total societal breakdown, chaos and mass bloodshed, somehow(?) leading to a perfect utopian future (or a return to some utopian past state). Oh, fuck off, please." You don't seem to have actually figured out which side is operating from a Utopian outlook yet. Best of luck though!

Posted by: cackfinger at September 30, 2013 06:43 PM (OsCtd)

233 "No. They're desperate for order and security. It will usher in fascism, totalitarianism, tyranny-- not limited government, but the opposite. " More likely a federation/commonwealth of city states.

Posted by: cackfinger at September 30, 2013 06:44 PM (OsCtd)

234 "The American Constitution is a miracle of history. If the society (ours) in which it is enshrined is totally scrapped, burned the ground, there is no reconstituting it. It's gone. " It's pretty much already gone. Too bad you didn't notice it being thousand-cut down into a weebly- wobbly collection of easily mutable suggestions before now though. You might have said something had you only known...

Posted by: cackfinger at September 30, 2013 06:47 PM (OsCtd)

235 "More likely a federation/commonwealth of city states." I'm not saying it will be a nice federation/commonwealth of city states. But we don't really have the money or resources for a centralized authoritarian empire to emerge from a societal collapse. Those things just aren't very sustainable. Things will be a lot more local by necessity.

Posted by: cackfinger at September 30, 2013 06:51 PM (OsCtd)

236 Of course, leftism is by its very essence and nature, utopian.

That's why it's so disappointing, frustrating, infuriating to see conservatives falling prey to utopianism, too.

I consider a certain strain of quasi-nihilistic apocalyptic "let it burn" thinking utopian, too. It is utopian to hope our world as is-- in which we and our families live, are able to live, our ordinary lives, in relative peace and freedom-- will burn to the ground-- collapse, fall apart-- because you think what will rise from the ashes, will be better. Bull, shit.

Historically speaking, relatively speaking, we Americans are still (politically) the most blessed people on the face of the earth, in all of time.

The American Constitution, the American experiment, isn't like a law of nature. Such that societies falling into chaos shall naturally reconstitute themselves, at some point, in that form. On the contrary, looking at history, it's more like an exception. That's what I mean by political "miracle." And yet, a miraculously long-lasting and resilient one. It's endured worse.

"It's pretty much already gone. Too bad you didn't notice it being thousand-cut down into a weebly- wobbly collection of easily mutable suggestions before now though."

How is this not utopian? I'd like you to name a period of American history in which you think the USA, the government, lived up to the ideals of the American Constitution, without cause for lament, concern, outrage. Does the Supreme Court decide all cases perfectly? Hardly. Does the US executive branch sometimes flout Constitutional limits? Yes.

And yet. Obama IS constrained. If he and his ilk had their way, the Constitution would go the way of the dodo bird. And it has not. It is still the basis and blueprint, the rules and regulations, of our flawed imperfect system run by flawed imperfect people. And overall, relatively speaking-- compared to any and every other political system ever devised in the history of the world-- I'd say it works. And has lasted. At the very least, it gives us the grounds for resistance and opposition and pushback.

Obama is a toxic menace. And yes, there is more systemic rot, systemic problems, that precede and supersede him. But Obama is such a feckless incompetent, idiot. To say that, mid-Obama term, the American Constitution, American experiment, America, is "over" and "gone" is SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS. Why give this clown so much credit, concede him so much power? Yes, his aim was to fundamentally transform America. But right now he's a fucking lame duck. Is the present state of America reason enough to give up, despair, and wait for, hope for, apocalypse?  To dream that the whole thing will burn to the ground? Please, I have more faith in (and love for) America than that, for god's sake. Obama too shall pass. That's what *I'm* hoping for.

Which is not to say that there isn't reason to lament, to rage, to fight, to curse, to sometimes despair. But fuck this "let it burn" stuff. If it's a rhetorical way of burning off steam, fine. But if any of you actually mean it seriously--

We are fundamentally at odds. Passively wait for apocalypse, then. I just hope you don't obstruct those (e.g. a Ted Cruz or Rand Paul, or nameless people involved in local politics) who actually have the stones and the will to engage, and fight, for a country they still love. The ideal of the USA, but also the USA in the mortal imperfect historical flesh.

Posted by: lael at September 30, 2013 08:14 PM (1rj9K)

237 Oh, I forgot (in the above comment) a lot of you "let it burn" people hate Republicans ("establishment" Republicans, i.e. any Republicans who actually hold political office, and have to act within those compromised constraints?) more than you hate Obama.

I'm too tired right now (and it's futile anyway) to go into the absurdity of that.

But again: lament, rage, fight. But hoping for the death of the GOP, not voting, dreaming of the rise of a third party...

OMG utopian BULLSHIT. Leftists meanwhile will be playing the actual game of real politics, scoring victory after victory for the Dems, in the short and long game. And THAT may well spell the death of America.

By the way, if you (conservatives) leave the Republican party and don't vote in the primaries, who do you think WILL be voting, and for what?


Posted by: lael at September 30, 2013 08:30 PM (1rj9K)

238 Edit: "in the primaries or general elections"

Posted by: lael at September 30, 2013 08:35 PM (1rj9K)

239 Maybe now they will put that fence around California! Doesn't California receive federal funds? Awesome!!!!!

Posted by: fawkes at October 02, 2013 09:39 AM (Djwm9)

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